I saw a van driving around town the other day that had the rego plate D84.
I wonder if the owner is a medic fan!

Remember that Trek piece I posted a few days ago....well here are three more
http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Untold-Tales-cover-2-689057172
http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Untold-Tales-cover-3-689247331
http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Untold-Tales-cover-4-689492273
clean versions available as wellIf anyone cares that is.

I saw a van driving around town the other day that had the rego plate D84.
I wonder if the owner is a medic fan!


Wasn't me, but I want it I want it. lol



<www.sendspace.com/file/xrak39>
<www.sendspace.com/file/sljb5j>

Can anyone point me towards the latest adventures of 4 & 7 without directing me to the bay, please? Thank-you.

Finally! The password reset system has actually let me reset my password. Whohoo!!

Cool! What did you reset it to?

Simm only had me fooled the first time he appeared in the episode (when Bill was still in the bed).
When he came back again the 2nd time (when Bill was hiding behind the curtain), I saw some familiarity with the eye expressions.
Then, when he appeared again and spoke directly to her, I saw right through the disguise.

LOVED the ep!
HATED the boot-stomp sfx!

BUT, I have theories to share (behind the spoiler curtain):

The eventual resolution of the whole CyberBill is of the following:


If the Cyberperson IS Bill (and NOT just a recording OF Bill saying those words -with a metaphorical glimpse of her inside the Eye -which would allow for her to just walk back in the room next episode,) THEN the only way to fix it would be for TIME to factor in.

The Doctor already said they couldn't trust the TARDIS' precision that close to a black hole, SO...if they do try to escape and the TARDIS "accidentally" brings them back to the start, so they can grab Bill before she gets killed...
BUT AS for the Master, they "leave him to die" (which, if you remember was what she said in her first (re)appearance AS Mizzy)...

AND, the Time displacement somehow factors in to the Master forgetting he was ever there. Thus Missy doesn't remember.
(All she does remember is that the Medic left him/her to die)

Either way, the DOCTOR had to do something dangerous to get wounded so badly that he is beginning the regeneration (as seen in the pre-flashback opening scene).

The kicker is that MIZZY first appeared in the company of... CYBRMEN!
So, she was a he and regenerated on THAT ship and then returned to Earth with some CYBRMEN (using R&D from the years-advanced section of the ship) and began her first act if revenge for what happens in THIS session-ending 2-parter.

huh? huh?
You KNOW I'm right, and I've just blown your minds.

PLUS...to add to the mind-blowing timey-wimey...

Mizzy arrives and is obviously working with tech (Because of the cybrmen), she has a memory that she is connected with the Doctor NOT having a companion (the loss OF Bill, ONE way or the other), so she does her best to find him the ideal companion, the PERFECT one that will bring him MORE along the lines of thinking that she - Missy - thinks (in order to bring her friend back to her), so she gives her the TARDIS phone number to the PERFECT companion, who happens to need some tech advice at the time:
CLARA!

It's just that The Medic isn't quite the same man at that point, being his earlier regeneration. it'll take time for the new companion to bring him around to Mizzy's way of thinking...

BECAUSE, she ALSO remembers (probably due to Tlme Lord mind meld "contact" with herself/himself during THIS adventure) that the Doctor was trying to change her to be more like HIM, in order to get his old friend back, so, in her warped mind, she decides to make HIM more like HER first!

Timey-Wimey!

THEN, with this harrowing adventure over - due to the time-displacement effect of the black hole - the wounded Medic appears in ANTARCTICA to meet with the dying version of his FIRST self!
Where they then team up to save GalllFrey for Christmas. (if you recall, #1 wasn't in a lot of 10th Planet - so there's some time for him to wander off and wear himself a bit thin.)



So, whatcha think?

Lots of timey. Lots of wimey.

Nice work.

Welcome back Nobber ��

Welcome back Nobber ��

Ditto for me too - it's been far too long.

I've even been getting my emails again, telling me of posts on here.

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------


Remember that Trek piece I posted a few days ago....well here are three more
http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Untold-Tales-cover-2-689057172
http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Untold-Tales-cover-3-689247331
http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Untold-Tales-cover-4-689492273
clean versions available as wellIf anyone cares that is.

Hey, I care :)

yay.........the big finale tonight, the 2nd last 12th medic outing this year!!........im excited, hope everyone enjoys it

yay.........the big finale tonight, the 2nd last 12th medic outing this year!!........im excited, hope everyone enjoys itI just hope they don't screw it up.

I just hope they don't screw it up.


me too!!.....but last week was great, so fingers crossed :)

Well, apart from the awful "looking down" joke and the return of a puddle we'd forgotten about, that wasn't too bad.

More thoughts ...


Shame about the lack of Regeneration, though.

And, of course, The Master will return. Somehow.

It was ok but it was trying way too hard!


And yet another companion who dies but they're not really dead. Surely that's old-hat by now.

:thumbsup:

Best episode of the new series.
The downside was the return of --- again --- the ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense. This show does not need that kind of stuff in it -- it alienates new viewers (i.e. kids) and has no actual storytelling value. Other than all that nonsense? Hands down best episode since the show came back.

The downside was the return of --- again --- the ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense. This show does not need that kind of stuff in it -- it alienates new viewers (i.e. kids) and has no actual storytelling value. Other than all that nonsense? Hands down best episode since the show came back.

I don't think I agree with you on that.
I'm not gay, so have no particular investment in the issue, but I don't think most kids today (and I work with kids so have a pretty good idea from them) would feel alienated by having gay characters and gay scenes. I don't think they are any different in storytelling value to straight, black, white, asian, people with faith, or any other 'grouping' of people. In fact, one of the comments I have seen in relation to Bill is that the producers don't want any special recognition for having gay characters and don't want it to be a special part of the storyline. Gay people exist, gay people have relationships (including non-sexual relationships with straight people and other gay people) and so they are included in these stories. Did you have an issue with the lady who seemed to fancy Nardole? He's not a human, is part robot and she was Mondasian....inter-species and inter-technical relationship! It was put in to add some colour to the story. It didn't detract from the whole story and neither does Bill. We've got a 2000 or so year old alien hanging around with younger humans...should we be worried about that? The tenth had a special relationship with Rose but we don't all go shouting paedophile!

Best episode of the new series.
The downside was the return of --- again --- the ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense. This show does not need that kind of stuff in it -- it alienates new viewers (i.e. kids) and has no actual storytelling value. Other than all that nonsense? Hands down best episode since the show came back.

Think you're just exposing your own prejudices there, rather than speak for the kids.

This one is a cover for the lost Cushing Medic Audio http://jimg1972.deviantart.com/art/Doctor-Who-Journey-Into-Time-CD-cover-689918718Now off to watch the season finale.

Best episode of the new series.
The downside was the return of --- again --- the ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense. This show does not need that kind of stuff in it -- it alienates new viewers (i.e. kids) and has no actual storytelling value. Other than all that nonsense? Hands down best episode since the show came back.

Did you say the same about any of the straight companions?
If not I have to agree with Matt Paradise



I'm not gay, so have no particular investment in the issue, but I don't think most kids today (and I work with kids so have a pretty good idea from them) would feel alienated by having gay characters and gay scenes. I don't think they are any different in storytelling value to straight, black, white, asian, people with faith, or any other 'grouping' of people. In fact, one of the comments I have seen in relation to Bill is that the producers don't want any special recognition for having gay characters and don't want it to be a special part of the storyline. Gay people exist, gay people have relationships (including non-sexual relationships with straight people and other gay people) and so they are included in these stories. Did you have an issue with the lady who seemed to fancy Nardole? He's not a human, is part robot and she was Mondasian....inter-species and inter-technical relationship! It was put in to add some colour to the story. It didn't detract from the whole story and neither does Bill. We've got a 2000 or so year old alien hanging around with younger humans...should we be worried about that? The tenth had a special relationship with Rose but we don't all go shouting paedophile!

Well said

I knew it! I knew IT! I knew Moffat would pull his usual nonsense and go for the sappy, happy ending. I was loving the episode up until that point then it all went in the crapper.

I knew it! I knew IT! I knew Moffat would pull his usual nonsense and go for the sappy, happy ending. I was loving the episode up until that point then it all went in the crapper.

Have you seen the Aftershow on youtube?
He knows that the ending would annoy a number of people, but explains his reasoning for doing it this time, and previously. Worth a watch and it also has an interview with the director.

Have you seen the Aftershow on youtube?
He knows that the ending would annoy a number of people, but explains his reasoning for doing it this time, and previously. Worth a watch and it also has an interview with the director.
His explanation is as rubbish as his writing. Death is as much a part of life as life itself. Classic Medic wasn't afraid to show that dark side every once in a while, because let's face it hanging with the Medic can be pretty life threatening. You didn't see JNT going for the sappy ending with Math boy, and they sure didn't pull any punches when they killed off Sara or the slave girl. How many times has Moff killed off NuWho companions ans let it stick? None. Death can be inspirational as well, especially if a character is shown giving his or her life for the right thing, the noble thing, the just thing.

His explanation is as rubbish as his writing. Death is as much a part of life as life itself. Classic Medic wasn't afraid to show that dark side every once in a while, because let's face it hanging with the Medic can be pretty life threatening. You didn't see JNT going for the sappy ending with Math boy, and they sure didn't pull any punches when they killed off Sara or the slave girl. How many times has Moff killed off NuWho companions ans let it stick? None. Death can be inspirational as well, especially if a character is shown giving his or her life for the right thing, the noble thing, the just thing.
Three (four if you count the robot) isn't that many is twenty years of classic who and Katarina was barely a companion. But if you're basically going for single story travellers, what about Abigail in A Christmas Carol? Don't forget that Danny got left as a cyberman. So that's two in Moffat's reign.

Don't forget that Danny got left as a cyberman.Killing Pink was the best thing to happen to that character, but Moff still managed to screw it up by essentially doing the same thing to him that he did to Bill (proving he has run out of ideas since he just regurgitated the same gimmick from two seasons earlier) And that awful ear wrenching speech about We Are Soldiers made me wish he'd just blow up already.

Killing Pink was the best thing to happen to that character, but Moff still managed to screw it up by essentially doing the same thing to him that he did to Bill (proving he has run out of ideas since he just regurgitated the same gimmick from two seasons earlier) And that awful ear wrenching speech about We Are Soldiers made me wish he'd just blow up already.
Sounds like he can't win. You can't complain that Pink had the same thing happen to him as Bill, when he came first, plus had a different outcome. Anyway, converting humans is modus operandi for cybermen.

Well this is interesting. Can finally post on here again. First time in a very long time but was finally able to get an email through to reset my password.

Oh and to those spreading links to another place around, please stop. It is invite only and I am always aware of the invites given as with the exception of a couple of people it goes through me first. Even then they always consult me first, which is a lovely courtesy.

You can call it elitist if you want, someone who couldn't get an invite in the past has. But it is more of a wanting to protect it why we are invite only.

Anyway so as to contribute to the thread. I am a bit behind on my audios. On a recent holiday I managed to get up to 206. Need to find time to listen to more. I mean I am what nearly 2 years behind on main series.

It's not her.

It's a recording.

You can't transfer soul energy, because it doesn't exist, yes teleporters are murder machines, so what is happening is that one recording is boffing another recording.

P.S.

As long as you can record without killing, I can see that a new copy would have been made as a replacement every 30 to 50 years, at different points in her timeline, because only mortals can love forever.

loved the finale............so much fun, of course there were plot holes, but moff is famos for them so i kinda expected them

so the tinmen from dark water in season 8 are of mondasian origin i assume?. missy took the conversion technology and maybe a survivor or 2 with her in the t"ardis at the end of this ep?

Well this is interesting. Can finally post on here again. First time in a very long time but was finally able to get an email through to reset my password.

Oh and to those spreading links to another place around, please stop. It is invite only and I am always aware of the invites given as with the exception of a couple of people it goes through me first. Even then they always consult me first, which is a lovely courtesy.

You can call it elitist if you want, someone who couldn't get an invite in the past has. But it is more of a wanting to protect it why we are invite only.

Anyway so as to contribute to the thread. I am a bit behind on my audios. On a recent holiday I managed to get up to 206. Need to find time to listen to more. I mean I am what nearly 2 years behind on main series.

Yes, it's good to have things sorted.

And you're not the only one who's massively behind, sad to say.

so the tinmen from dark water in season 8 are of mondasian origin i assume?

I thought it was saying that The Cybermen would evolve through the same stages wherever they're from. (Except Pete's World where they obviously skipped a few stages.)

Best episode of the new series.
The downside was the return of --- again --- the ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense. This show does not need that kind of stuff in it -- it alienates new viewers (i.e. kids) and has no actual storytelling value. Other than all that nonsense? Hands down best episode since the show came back.

You are reducing real people's lives to "ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense" because you cannot bare to see normal relationships depicted on a tasteful way on TV.

You are reducing real people's lives to "ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense" because you cannot bare to see normal relationships depicted on a tasteful way on TV.
I second this sentiment. Hell, I was on the Doctor Who YouTube channel the other day and this one person commented on a video about the Master that they thought it was absurd that the Master changed their name to "the Mistress" when they regenerated into a woman. I decided to comment that people who are trans change their names when they go to another gender, so it stands to reason that the Master would do that too, as well to just troll the Doctor for not knowing who they are. However, that prompted some jackass to reply to me, -completely ignoring the "troll the Doctor' part- saying that I was an "SJW" and that I should get my "trans agenda" off of the Doctor Who YouTube channel. I simply replied to him "Oh, so treating people who are different from the norm with dignity and respect (i.e., like an actual person) is called 'being an SJW' or 'having an agenda' now? Good to know that you're part of what's wrong with humanity right now! Have a nice life."

Full disclosure: I'm a guy, always have been and never had any issues with my gender outside of some women attempting to shame me for it because certain urges guys have makes them uncomfortable due to bad experiences with other guys that they've decided to project onto me. But I also know what it feels like to be singled out and bullied for being different because I was diagnosed with Asperger's when I was in 3rd grade. I do pretty well now (for the most part), but when I was younger I was out of my depth when it came to social interaction with people who weren't my family. I credit my older brothers with really helping me with that. Anyway, you'd think after all that bullying, I'd be just as hateful and resentful as those people who gave me shit? Nope. If anything, it made stronger and much more tolerant of other folks who may be more visibly different as well as invisibly. Not only that, but it helped me to stick up for and encourage other folks who might be dealing with bullying in their own way and help them find a constructive way of dealing with it. Plus, I've had several friends in the last couple of years out themselves as trans, and you know what? They're still my friends and they've been kind and patient enough with me to help me understand their experiences and I take special care to address them by the name they've chosen to go by, as well not to misgender them despite knowing them as one gender before.

If I'm an SJW simply because I had the capacity to move on from the bullying of my past and use it as my springboard towards treating people kindly and respectfully (although, having my awesome family around certainly helped) then I'm proud of it! People like that YouTube commenter can fuck off and I don't want them tainting the Doctor Who fanbase! It's the 21st Century! Society's slowly evolving just we people are, whether you're ready or not!

You are reducing real people's lives to "ridiculous PC lesbian nonsense" because you cannot bare to see normal relationships depicted on a tasteful way on TV.

well said..........nobody complained about silly PC hetro nonsense in the amy and rory years because that would have been ridiculous, the same principle applies here. i have no time for homophobic fans

llol actually ive seen many ppl complaining about the hetero stuff saying that type of thing should be done away with, and say the lez scene was the best ever and can't wait for more. more than 10 ppl actually.. they can just go on and on about it. maybe you're just not looking in the right places or maybe i should say left?

Only really old people and Australians still say "Lez"

The LGBQ community is starved for media representation, so there is crowing whenever a television doesn't make them feel like aliens.

i am neither of those. the "lgbt" community say they want to be treated like equals but they don't act like it. equal means not putting down heteronormative relationships as they call it. if you think what kime said was bad that was mild compared to what boards i was looking at were saying, only it was in regards to the het relationships and the kind of thinking that makes them and strong opposition towards it. they are not accepting of het relationships. in equality thinking you can't make a big deal out of les/bi/trans or other relationships because it goes counter to what equality means. equality means equal regardless of how much or how little something happened in the past or any other standpoints. this is something that is not being shown. equality is not blowing a relationship out of proportions making something that is small into a huge deal. the lgbt community need to learn what equality is but the past few years they have not. this is a symptom they must rectify across all genres (movies, music, tv and real life). the always wanting more kind of thinking will always want there to be more and will always make big deals regardless of how much something is already done. they need to move out of the "more" into equality, out of the "big deal thinking" into equality unless of course if you make a big deal out of all relationship types when one sees them.

i am neither of those. the "lgbt" community say they want to be treated like equals but they don't act like it. equal means not putting down heteronormative relationships as they call it. if you think what kime said was bad that was mild compared to what boards i was looking at were saying, only it was in regards to the het relationships and the kind of thinking that makes them and strong opposition towards it. they are not accepting of het relationships. in equality thinking you can't make a big deal out of les/bi/trans or other relationships because it goes counter to what equality means. equality means equal regardless of how much or how little something happened in the past or any other standpoints. this is something that is not being shown. equality is not blowing a relationship out of proportions making something that is small into a huge deal. the lgbt community need to learn what equality is but the past few years they have not. this is a symptom they must rectify across all genres (movies, music, tv and real life). the always wanting more kind of thinking will always want there to be more and will always make big deals regardless of how much something is already done. they need to move out of the "more" into equality, out of the "big deal thinking" into equality unless of course if you make a big deal out of all relationship types when one sees them.

Wow, you have issues. I hope you get over them.

---------- Post added at 11:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------


I second this sentiment. Hell, I was on the Doctor Who YouTube channel the other day and this one person commented on a video about the Master that they thought it was absurd that the Master changed their name to "the Mistress" when they regenerated into a woman. I decided to comment that people who are trans change their names when they go to another gender, so it stands to reason that the Master would do that too, as well to just troll the Doctor for not knowing who they are. However, that prompted some jackass to reply to me, -completely ignoring the "troll the Doctor' part- saying that I was an "SJW" and that I should get my "trans agenda" off of the Doctor Who YouTube channel. I simply replied to him "Oh, so treating people who are different from the norm with dignity and respect (i.e., like an actual person) is called 'being an SJW' or 'having an agenda' now? Good to know that you're part of what's wrong with humanity right now! Have a nice life."

Full disclosure: I'm a guy, always have been and never had any issues with my gender outside of some women attempting to shame me for it because certain urges guys have makes them uncomfortable due to bad experiences with other guys that they've decided to project onto me. But I also know what it feels like to be singled out and bullied for being different because I was diagnosed with Asperger's when I was in 3rd grade. I do pretty well now (for the most part), but when I was younger I was out of my depth when it came to social interaction with people who weren't my family. I credit my older brothers with really helping me with that. Anyway, you'd think after all that bullying, I'd be just as hateful and resentful as those people who gave me shit? Nope. If anything, it made stronger and much more tolerant of other folks who may be more visibly different as well as invisibly. Not only that, but it helped me to stick up for and encourage other folks who might be dealing with bullying in their own way and help them find a constructive way of dealing with it. Plus, I've had several friends in the last couple of years out themselves as trans, and you know what? They're still my friends and they've been kind and patient enough with me to help me understand their experiences and I take special care to address them by the name they've chosen to go by, as well not to misgender them despite knowing them as one gender before.

If I'm an SJW simply because I had the capacity to move on from the bullying of my past and use it as my springboard towards treating people kindly and respectfully (although, having my awesome family around certainly helped) then I'm proud of it! People like that YouTube commenter can fuck off and I don't want them tainting the Doctor Who fanbase! It's the 21st Century! Society's slowly evolving just we people are, whether you're ready or not!

I'm aspergers too so I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes I think it gives me a much clearer non-emotive picture of how different groups are treated when they are in the minority. Tribalism means the majority can stomp all over everyone else and not see anything wrong with it unfortunately :( It never occurs to them what it's like to be locked outside of society.

i am neither of those. the "lgbt" community say they want to be treated like equals but they don't act like it. equal means not putting down heteronormative relationships as they call it. if you think what kime said was bad that was mild compared to what boards i was looking at were saying, only it was in regards to the het relationships and the kind of thinking that makes them and strong opposition towards it. they are not accepting of het relationships. in equality thinking you can't make a big deal out of les/bi/trans or other relationships because it goes counter to what equality means. equality means equal regardless of how much or how little something happened in the past or any other standpoints. this is something that is not being shown. equality is not blowing a relationship out of proportions making something that is small into a huge deal. the lgbt community need to learn what equality is but the past few years they have not. this is a symptom they must rectify across all genres (movies, music, tv and real life). the always wanting more kind of thinking will always want there to be more and will always make big deals regardless of how much something is already done. they need to move out of the "more" into equality, out of the "big deal thinking" into equality unless of course if you make a big deal out of all relationship types when one sees them.


wow i had no idea being straight was so tough, no idea that you had so much to get past and get over, it must be awful for you to wake up every day and feel your life choices attacked......so very sad ............dont worry petal it gets better :) :)

OMG! Is this shit still going on???

I'm not exactly an enlightened 21st century guy, but I'm not a howling bigot either and I don't see the problem here. They decided to give the doc a gay companion - anyone remember a certain captain who travelled briefly with the doc and Rose? I can't remember all this aggro back then.

Personally I thought Bill was awesome and her being gay didn't overshadow the rest of the story and it wasn't constantly rubbed in our faces. It didn't particularly add anything to the story, but didn't detract from it either.

Can we just leave this and find something else to fight about before insults about people's sexual orientation start flying - because it's only a matter of time....

wow i had no idea being straight was so tough, no idea that you had so much to get past and get over, it must be awful for you to wake up every day and feel your life choices attacked......so very sad ............dont worry petal it gets better :) :)

Unfortunately this is the big problem - people in the "majority" don't realise how much better they have it and how worse minorities do. As soon as a minority group want equal rights, representation or the right to not be sneered at they feel something is being taken from them. It's the same with racial issues, with feminism, etc. Those asking for the same things that everyone else has are perceived as trying to take more than their share because the majority are used society working in their favour.

i have no issues. i posted from the standpoint of equality and only equality not from the view of any of the relationship labels. the lgbt community say they want equality however what they say and do in regards to equality in media brings things into question. one cannot raise, lower, praise or belittle any of the labels from the equality perspective without also doing it to the other. equality has no feelings about any of them. equality simply wants all of them to be represented and treated equally.

in this way "relationships" become the tool of equality.

equality can be a fun plot device if one looks at tv shows, movies and etc from it. equality would be of the mind if there is no lovey dovey in shows then pushing of any type of relationship label dealing with love would bring about an imbalance until all labels are represented until balance is brought back or you can go back to zero lovey doveys. it is easy enough for tv shows, one has various time period constraints to do it in from parts of one ep to one full ep to a series of eps, to half seasons to one season per relationship label.

so far only the most common relationship relationship labels are being accounted for het/gay/bi/les/trans, there are others, others which are not equally represented because some wish to ignore them or are not knowledgeable of their existence. equality can help with that. it can make their presence known and it shall make them known up to the point of the other relationship labels that are more seen in the greater populace. one such group that needs to be brought more into the limeline according to google woud be poly.. this group seems to have many variants but they are separate from the culture of monos that are het/bi/gay/lez/trans. the polyculture has always been seen as a minority to the monoculture. they do appear to be a distinct group needing representation so again the bringing up of this group and its subgroups to the level and acceptance of those above. we have still other groups perceived to be minorities however with equality we can have fulll representation across the board for these and all groups of the relationship spectrum

Unfortunately this is the big problem - people in the "majority" don't realise how much better they have it and how worse minorities do. As soon as a minority group want equal rights, representation or the right to not be sneered at they feel something is being taken from them. It's the same with racial issues, with feminism, etc. Those asking for the same things that everyone else has are perceived as trying to take more than their share because the majority are used society working in their favour.

your post is perfect

---------- Post added at 08:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 AM ----------


i have no issues. i posted from the standpoint of equality and only equality not from the view of any of the relationship labels. the lgbt community say they want equality however what they say and do in regards to equality in media brings things into question. one cannot raise, lower, praise or belittle any of the labels from the equality perspective without also doing it to the other. equality has no feelings about any of them. equality simply wants all of them to be represented and treated equally.

in this way "relationships" become the tool of equality.

equality can be a fun plot device if one looks at tv shows, movies and etc from it. equality would be of the mind if there is no lovey dovey in shows then pushing of any type of relationship label dealing with love would bring about an imbalance until all labels are represented until balance is brought back or you can go back to zero lovey doveys. it is easy enough for tv shows, one has various time period constraints to do it in from parts of one ep to one full ep to a series of eps, to half seasons to one season per relationship label.

so far only the most common relationship relationship labels are being accounted for het/gay/bi/les/trans, there are others, others which are not equally represented because some wish to ignore them or are not knowledgeable of their existence. equality can help with that. it can make their presence known and it shall make them known up to the point of the other relationship labels that are more seen in the greater populace.


honestly, just stop, i know you think your being clever, but your just coming across as homophobic and your actually offending me and other people here. please take your opinions elsewhere.

i support equality, possibly far more than you will ever know or more than i can put into words. you wish to see it as homophobic because you do not see how certain groups can act. you wish to ignore it and act like certain things do not exist.they are there however, they need fixing and rectifying. the sooner this is done the better, for after equality is brought about and this silly putting down of groups (because one wants to see more of themselves) is done away with can we can bring about unity. once unity is obtained peace also is easily obtained.

i support equality, possibly far more than you will ever know or more than i can put into words. you wish to see it as homophobic because you do not see how certain groups can act. you wish to ignore it and act like certain things do not exist.they are there however, they need fixing and rectifying. the sooner this is done the better, for after equality is brought about and this silly putting down of groups (because one wants to see more of themselves) is done away with can we can bring about unity. once unity is obtained peace also is easily obtained.


if you support equality, then sit down , shut up and gracefully allow other minorities to have their well deserved moment in the sun after generations of prejudice, and oppression. honestly you sound ridiculous.

...if you think what kime said was bad that was mild compared to what boards i was looking at were saying...
Yes, people say worse things, but that doesn't mean that what kimekaro posted wasn't homophobic and bloody offensive


I've never complained about any of the relationships on Who. I have every right to criticise people who complain about LGBT characters and their relationships.
(And no-one would ever use the word PC to criticise a straight relationship - it's obviously homophobia)

Seriously, you're in hole, stop digging. You're helping no-one. Especially yourself.
You can't claim to be ally while you post nonsense like this

...the "lgbt" community say they want to be treated like equals but they don't act like it...

Yes, people say worse things, but that doesn't mean that what kimekaro posted wasn't homophobic and bloody offensive


I've never complained about any of the relationships on Who. I have every right to criticise people who complain about LGBT characters and their relationships.
(And no-one would ever use the word PC to criticise a straight relationship - it's obviously homophobia)

Seriously, you're in hole, stop digging. You're helping no-one. Especially yourself.
You can't claim to be ally while you post nonsense like this

hes not really interested in equal rights, ive met met people like this before, he thinks hes being clever putting down minorities getting more exposure as inequality

So; David Bradley, then. Any thoughts?

(Thoughts about him being in the Christmas episode, not on whether or not you think he should be gay...)

So; David Bradley, then. Any thoughts?

(Thoughts about him being in the Christmas episode, not on whether or not you think he should be gay...)

Bloody excellent. I hope it's a cracking story. I can't wait. We've got that to look forward to, the next Star Wars and the next Blade Runner. What a year!

So; David Bradley, then. Any thoughts?

(Thoughts about him being in the Christmas episode, not on whether or not you think he should be gay...)
I'm hoping that 12's swan song proves to be a deserving one. I'd hate to have Peter go out with a dud. He deserves to go out on a high note. And from what little I've seen I think Bradley is going to do an excellent turn as the first medic. He sounded like he was trying to do a Hartnell style delivery.

I'm hoping that 12's swan song proves to be a deserving one. I'd hate to have Peter go out with a dud. He deserves to go out on a high note. And from what little I've seen I think Bradley is going to do an excellent turn as the first medic. He sounded like he was trying to do a Hartnell style delivery.
Well, Bradley certainly nailed it in "An Adventure in Space and Time" as far as I'm concerned, so color me giddy with excitement. My gf is also excited, and she hasn't experienced much Classic Who yet. She even likened the reveal of the First Doctor to how John Hurt's War Doctor was revealed in "The Name of the Doctor". Granted, while I understand her sentiment, I feel like John Hurt's reveal was just a touch bigger from a mythology standpoint. Especially since John Hurt was playing a Doctor we'd never seen before, whereas Bradley is third actor to portray the First Doctor onscreen. But it's still a huge moment from a storytelling standpoint regardless, and I can't wait to see how Twelve goes out this Christmas.

So; David Bradley, then. Any thoughts?

(Thoughts about him being in the Christmas episode, not on whether or not you think he should be gay...)

I think he cannot less convincing that Richard Hurndall was!

I think he cannot less convincing that Richard Hurndall was!

That's a fair point. Though I remember when The Five Doctors was first broadcast, everyone thought he was brilliant. That was before any Hartnell stuff was ever released on video & we didn't know any better.

So; David Bradley, then. Any thoughts?

(Thoughts about him being in the Christmas episode, not on whether or not you think he should be gay...)

A two Medic Christmas episode should be awesome. Can't wait. well I want to have my summer holiday first but, roll on Christmas. lol

sorry guys i am not part of this majority you speak of. the replies to me don't come close to showing the point i was trying to get across or the perspective i was trying to demonstrate. you may have seen replies similar leading you to your assumptions about what i might have try to say and those ppls beliefs but none of those were mines. perhaps that was my fault for not putting things down in the right manner for you to understand. it is incorrect to assume that i believed kime to be right based on viewpoints that directly oppose his or that i believe theirs to be more right

sorry guys i am not part of this majority you speak of. the replies to me don't come close to showing the point i was trying to get across or the perspective i was trying to demonstrate. you may have seen replies similar leading you to your assumptions about what i might have try to say and those ppls beliefs but none of those were mines. perhaps that was my fault for not putting things down in the right manner for you to understand. it is incorrect to assume that i believed kime to be right based on viewpoints that directly oppose his or that i believe theirs to be more right

If you are being misunderstood and seem to be digging yourself into a hole then stop digging!!!!! Change the subject.

If there is anything more annoying than fragile straight white male bigots whining about fairer representation, it's people (of any type) trying to tell people of any minority how we should act and what we should say. I have no more patience or time for either type of people. You're dinosaurs. You're going extinct. As it should be. Humanity is evolving around you. You've already taken up more of our time time than you deserve.

The show is all about inclusivity, always has been it's beating heart. The Medic himself has for over half a century been teaching schoolkids that being an outsider is nothing to feel ashamed about. The kiss in Saturday's episode (involving a black actress, no less) was almost the perfect example of what the show's message is about. And given that the overall theme of last week's episode was 'be kind' then those that have a problem with the kiss, I'd respectfully suggest haven't quite grasped the writer's intention.

The irony of course, is that the actor who originally played the First Medic, may not have agreed with me! :)

to be very honest, im stunned that someone with the views that have been aired on this board over the last 24 hours is a medic fan.

were they just attracted by the zippy music and pretty lights?. the shows message is so strongly based on inclusivity and respect, even in the classic years the show was all about compassion and the struggle against oppression.

This is a dangerous area of conversation, simply because religion and sexuality have always been powerful tools to manipulate and fire people up. Opinions are like arse holes, everybody has them, as the old saying goes! I am NOT taking a stance here on the conversations that have happened, however I do actually see points on both sides. My niece is in a same sex marriage, so I do have insight on the issues that people face, which in this day and age, there should not be issues. However whilst my niece is, how to put this, not shouting her sexuality from the rooftops, she actually gets very little bother. Her wife on the other hand is out and proud and lets everybody know it, even if they don't want to. Now this HAS caused issues in the 5 years they have been married, and to be fair she brings it on herself a lot of the time, even my niece has a go at her about it.
People should and MUST be able to be who they are, and racists, homophobes and bigots should have no place in modern society, however members of minority groups also have a duty to not bang on about their lifestyle choices to any and all that fall into earshot, because it can create resistance and indeed hatred in those that are too narrow minded to accept it. Just go about your lives and be happy, be who you are and apologise for nothing.

I even find challenging those that have differing views does not and will not work, it just creates more hostility.

In time, as young generations become adults, this whole issue will be redundant, because peoples sexual choices will not be an issue, and shows like Doctor Who are helping that. As somebody else said, the fact Bill was gay neither added nor took away from the narrative, she was simply Bill.... and that is just as it should be!

As the older generations fade and the younger ones rise, and those yet to come, the homophobia will decrease, and then the bigots will be the minority, will they then have to be listened to and championed because they are the minority????

Just ignore them, let them go the way of the dinosaur and let everybody else live their lives like the Doctor, being never cruel or cowardly and accepting all races and peoples, regardless of religion and/or sexuality.

Well said, jawamaster. I don't mean to change the subject, but did anyone get the PDF scripts for the First Medic CCs box set from last month? I'm asking because I'd like to have them, if possible. I can provide anything you like in exchange if I have it. Thanks in advance!

...Just ignore them, let them go the way of the dinosaur and let everybody else live their lives like the Doctor, being never cruel or cowardly and accepting all races and peoples, regardless of religion and/or sexuality.

The reasons attitudes have changed and continue to change is because LGBT people are "out and proud".
If lesbians and gay men had just kept quiet all this time we would still be living in the 1950s and wouldn't have made the strides towards equality that we have today.

I'm sorry, I can see this argument is frustrating. We would all rather be discussing Doctor Who.
But if bigoted attitudes go unchallenged then bigots believe their views are acceptable

Well this is interesting. Can finally post on here again. First time in a very long time but was finally able to get an email through to reset my password.

Oh and to those spreading links to another place around, please stop. It is invite only and I am always aware of the invites given as with the exception of a couple of people it goes through me first. Even then they always consult me first, which is a lovely courtesy.

You can call it elitist if you want, someone who couldn't get an invite in the past has. But it is more of a wanting to protect it why we are invite only.

Anyway so as to contribute to the thread. I am a bit behind on my audios. On a recent holiday I managed to get up to 206. Need to find time to listen to more. I mean I am what nearly 2 years behind on main series.

Yes, thanks for posting that, I have had the same trouble, but great to be back in the throng :-)

This is a dangerous area of conversation, simply because religion and sexuality have always been powerful tools to manipulate and fire people up. Opinions are like arse holes, everybody has them, as the old saying goes! I am NOT taking a stance here on the conversations that have happened, however I do actually see points on both sides. My niece is in a same sex marriage, so I do have insight on the issues that people face, which in this day and age, there should not be issues. However whilst my niece is, how to put this, not shouting her sexuality from the rooftops, she actually gets very little bother. Her wife on the other hand is out and proud and lets everybody know it, even if they don't want to. Now this HAS caused issues in the 5 years they have been married, and to be fair she brings it on herself a lot of the time, even my niece has a go at her about it.
People should and MUST be able to be who they are, and racists, homophobes and bigots should have no place in modern society, however members of minority groups also have a duty to not bang on about their lifestyle choices to any and all that fall into earshot, because it can create resistance and indeed hatred in those that are too narrow minded to accept it. Just go about your lives and be happy, be who you are and apologise for nothing.

I even find challenging those that have differing views does not and will not work, it just creates more hostility.

In time, as young generations become adults, this whole issue will be redundant, because peoples sexual choices will not be an issue, and shows like Doctor Who are helping that. As somebody else said, the fact Bill was gay neither added nor took away from the narrative, she was simply Bill.... and that is just as it should be!

As the older generations fade and the younger ones rise, and those yet to come, the homophobia will decrease, and then the bigots will be the minority, will they then have to be listened to and championed because they are the minority????

Just ignore them, let them go the way of the dinosaur and let everybody else live their lives like the Doctor, being never cruel or cowardly and accepting all races and peoples, regardless of religion and/or sexuality.


Unfortunately things are going backwards

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/02/homophobia-nationalism-china-us-difference

The bigots are fighting back.

Unfortunately things are going backwards

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/02/homophobia-nationalism-china-us-difference

The bigots are fighting back.

well said fella, the link in this message relates a very important point. homophobia is still a very strong social ill in this world, where we see it, we should confront it, we should challenge it and we should make people with those views understand it is not acceptable, if that is on the street or a message board for dr who fans, hate should always be challenged

well said fella, the link in this message relates a very important point. homophobia is still a very strong social ill in this world, where we see it, we should confront it, we should challenge it and we should make people with those views understand it is not acceptable, if that is on the street or a message board for dr who fans, hate should always be challenged

However you will NEVER make a bigot understand its not acceptable! That's a fight nobody can win my friend, I am sorry to say!

Can anyone tell me where the Doctor Who Audio Drama Thread is? I can't seem to find it...

Can anyone tell me where the Doctor Who Audio Drama Thread is? I can't seem to find it...

Its regenerated mate! and still not ginger!

Can anyone tell me where the Doctor Who Audio Drama Thread is? I can't seem to find it...It appears to be going through a regeneration crisis at the moment. May take a bit to sort itself out.

AAaaaaannnnyyyyyyway .... Anyone fancy running a book on how soon it take LC to announce that Argus Filch stars in a new box set? I think we'll hear Feb '18 that we'll get a set Oct '18.

AAaaaaannnnyyyyyyway .... Anyone fancy running a book on how soon it take LC to announce that Argus Filch stars in a new box set? I think we'll hear Feb '18 that we'll get a set Oct '18.If Bradley's amicable to doing the audios I doubt it'll be too long.

AAaaaaannnnyyyyyyway .... Anyone fancy running a book on how soon it take LC to announce that Argus Filch stars in a new box set? I think we'll hear Feb '18 that we'll get a set Oct '18.

But would Filch's First Medic work as audio alone, without his resemblance to WH? He doesn't sound that much like WH, and his delivery is quite different - not surprising, when you consider that WH's dramatic training took place in the 1920s.

I didn't find anything wrong with the kiss in the finale; it was charming and sweet, and perfectly fitting. No, it was the theme-bashing that annoyed me this season. Just like Danny (did you know he's a soldier?) Pink.

I've been away for two weeks, and I was wondering if the new Frightenifyers had popped up here yet? Thank you!

But would Filch's First Medic work as audio alone, without his resemblance to WH? He doesn't sound that much like WH, and his delivery is quite different - not surprising, when you consider that WH's dramatic training took place in the 1920s.

*Shrug* His delivery seemed OK when in character during the special. But as he'll be 'legitimized' by actually BEING The Doc this time (unless the whole Xmas special is a meta- thing where PC is on the set of 'The 10th ..' Oh, my, I really hope that isn't the case!) then I bet LC are ecstatic about the possibilities.

I've been away for two weeks, and I was wondering if the new Frightenifyers had popped up here yet? Thank you!
Oh? Is there a new one? *rushes to the site for their productions* There is! Holy crap! :O

Would anyone have the FDA story preceding the Time Casualties?

Just to say to UK members , there is a new magazine out , in case you havent come across it

https://thedarksidemagazine.com/product/infinity-issue-one/

it does for SciFi what The Dakr Sied does for horror :)

Just to say to UK members , there is a new magazine out , in case you havent come across it

https://thedarksidemagazine.com/product/infinity-issue-one/

it does for SciFi what The Dakr Sied does for horror :)


Well f@*k my old boots! how did that one escape me? WH Smiths are slacking in my area! Thank you Mr.Dalek.... will be hunting that one down!

Latest rumor is that the Girl Who Is Impossible to get rid of will be making an appearance at Christmas.

Latest rumor is that the Girl Who Is Impossible to get rid of will be making an appearance at Christmas.

cant say I am surprised! whilst I like what Jenna C actually did with the material she was given, she really was swimming against the tide at times! no refletion on her as an actress, but you can only polish a turd (the script) so much! I know many DONT agree, however, we are all entitled to out opinions! (Donna for me was the best Nuwho companion, and actually Bill was a very close second)

6 part series that focuses on bullying, troll behaviour, unmasking the real issues and how to overcome it. 11 mins each.
1. In the Beginning
http://tinyurl.com/ydbrv256
2. The Power of Words
http://tinyurl.com/ydgwycto
3. Who Are The Trolls
http://tinyurl.com/y9gc6k7p
4. Behind The Mask
http://tinyurl.com/ydhkjk33
5. Beating The Bullies
http://tinyurl.com/ya9ptl8p
6. Where Next?
http://tinyurl.com/y7p548we

I've been away for two weeks, and I was wondering if the new Frightenifyers had popped up here yet? Thank you!

Knew it was coming but hadn't realised it had even been released yet. Going to keep my eyes peeled


<www.sendspace.com/file/ughys2>

Would anyone have the FDA story preceding the Time Casualties?

Check your PM box.

I've been away for two weeks, and I was wondering if the new Frightenifyers had popped up here yet? Thank you!

Knew it was coming but hadn't realised it had even been released yet. Going to keep my eyes peeled

Oooh! That's exciting.
I'll keep a look out :)

Thank you much!


Check your PM box.

Knew it was coming but hadn't realised it had even been released yet. Going to keep my eyes peeled

Take a stroll on the bay and you'll find it there.

However you will NEVER make a bigot understand its not acceptable! That's a fight nobody can win my friend, I am sorry to say!

Sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. We've seen it again and again. In Massachusetts, when the Supreme Court forced the state to accept same sex marriages, polls showed support at around 30%. That was just 12 years ago, in an extremely liberal state. Now, polls show support in the high 70's and 80's. You can also see similar shifts everywhere in the country, even in the reddest states. Yes, some of those people died out. But not that many in 12 years. As the laws have changed, more and more people have come out. And as more have come out, it has helped even more to come out. And as they have, more and more people have become exposed to LGBT people in their daily lives. And that ABSOLUTELY has made the difference. In addition, the social stigma around homophobia has made many people reconsider their old notions. Certainly not all of those people went from flaming bigots to loving LGBT people. There are lots of different levels of change among the public. But there has been notable and dramatic and measurable change in people's attitudes in a strikingly short amount of time.

cant say I am surprised! whilst I like what Jenna C actually did with the material she was given, she really was swimming against the tide at times! no refletion on her as an actress, but you can only polish a turd (the script) so much! I know many DONT agree, however, we are all entitled to out opinions! (Donna for me was the best Nuwho companion, and actually Bill was a very close second)

I totally agree with you on all counts there. I also didn't like how she became the medic and the medic, in effect, became the companion.

Take a stroll on the bay and you'll find it there.

Thanks for the heads up.

JLC just outstayed her welcome. Interesting story, but once it was done it should've been done. It would have been better to have a clean slate when cap took over.

I also didn't like how she became the medic and the medic, in effect, became the companion.
I actually kinda liked that. If anything, because it was a deconstruction on the whole Medic/Companion dynamic and how the Medic's influence could cause the wrong person to take unnecessary risks to the point where it eventually gets them killed, like when Clara "faced the Raven" because she figured the Medic would pull a fast one and save her at the last minute. Only the Medic didn't know she had done this til it was too late for him to even do anything.

Thanks for the heads up.

JLC just outstayed her welcome. Interesting story, but once it was done it should've been done. It would have been better to have a clean slate when cap took over.

Even though I KNOW that her story would have been FAR better if she left after the whole "Impossible Girl" angle was wrapped up (she dives into his timestream, and should have dissolved OR he brings her back via the leaf and they somehow send her on her way),
I must confess that my eyeballs (and maybe other balls) loved having her around.

I was weak. I'm sorry!

Take a stroll on the bay and you'll find it there.


Thanks for the heads up Gweilo :)


PM if you're aquaphobic

I must confess that my eyeballs (and maybe other balls) loved having her around.

I was weak. I'm sorry!

Hope this doesn't come off as a rant, because it's not meant to be, just an explanation of my feelings on the matter.

I really liked Clara - not just for the reason mentioned in the quote above, but that does certainly come into it (hey, I just a weak lustful man!) - and I think it's fair to say that most of the modern companions/assistants/pets/snacks have had moments where they've taken on the lead role. I think that's also true for a lot of the classic ones; I don't believe it is particular to the Moff and I also don't think he's done any worse than any previous producer/show runner throughout the show's history. There will always be stories that some people hate and some people love and some that are merely forgotten for the most part.

I'm not a huge fan of the classic talons story, but I love the characters from it and their spin off audios.

I'm not a huge fan of some of 7's convoluted tales. Others love them but also complain about Moff's confusing arcs.

I feel I must stress that I'm neither a rabid lover or hater of Moff, but I think some of his stories have been brilliant, others not-so-much...just like the classic series (think Holmes' space arc vs croutons) some of the best writers had off days and some of the producers made poor decisions (70s excessive chromakey and dodgy dinosaurs for instance). Some of the best stories had some rotten bits (androzani mud beast springs to mind, another Holmes' one coincidentally) and some of the rotten ones had highlights.

I love the show despite the bits I don't like and knowing that next story will have something different, maybe something surprising, and probably the future will bring along another hot companion.......hopefully we'll have another companion introduction involving a skimpy bikini and a water rescue (but thinking more Peri than Turlough please producers)!

I just noticed that Michelle Gomez's birthday is November 23.......coincidence or some elaborate masterplan?

Latest TW up in the bay ;)

Latest TW up in the bay ;)

Thanks for the heads up.


Further on my thoughts regarding JLC. Yes, I appreciated that she was a pretty girl (hey, I'm human after all). It would have been good to starts PC's time with her done and dusted, start with a clean slate. A big problem was that it became Companion What, instead of Medic What. PC seemed to hardly be in it and not do very much. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was the odd story, but it was every story. Bill is an example of how to do it right. She wasn't a dumb "what's going on Dr?", "What's that Dr?", oh, I've twisted my ankle Dr" to the point where some classic companions were portrayed (and I love those companions anyway!), and she didn't take over the role of the Medic.

I think Clara ended up staying a year too long. I liked her first ending (before JLC changed her mind and decided to do the Xmas special) where it was just based on her and the Doctor not being honest. Her second ending (before JLC decided to stay another year after all) was quite clever too as it was more like an epilogue which didn't undermine the first one.

So by the time we get to S9 there's a sense of "just go already!" at a point when people were expecting a fresh new cast member.

I just noticed that Michelle Gomez's birthday is November 23.......coincidence or some elaborate masterplan?
I'd lean towards the former if I didn't have a friend with that same birthday... :D

.

At the Q&A after the first showing of The Pilot, when Steven Moffat was asked about Bill being gay, he said, "It's nothing we haven't done before. We don't need to be congratulated for it. Let's just move on."

I think Clara ended up staying a year too long. I liked her first ending (before JLC changed her mind and decided to do the Xmas special) where it was just based on her and the Doctor not being honest. Her second ending (before JLC decided to stay another year after all) was quite clever too as it was more like an epilogue which didn't undermine the first one.

So by the time we get to S9 there's a sense of "just go already!" at a point when people were expecting a fresh new cast member.

I agree. It gets to the point of where further can you go if you've already dealt with things.

I think if Clara does come back at Xmas, she won't necessarily have a huge role. More like when Amy Pond showed up for the 11th Doctor's regeneration. I think Bill will definitely return. Leaving her tear on The Doctor's forehead (after learning that that's how the water-folk find you) virtually guarantees it.

I think if Clara does come back at Xmas, she won't necessarily have a huge role. More like when Amy Pond showed up for the 11th Doctor's regeneration. I think Bill will definitely return. Leaving her tear on The Doctor's forehead (after learning that that's how the water-folk find you) virtually guarantees it.

I suspect it will be a little cameo in which the Doctor gives her a "Do i know you?" look and she gives a smug look back.

Going out on a limb here - Dan Stevens should be the new Doctor!

Going out on a limb here - Dan Stevens should be the new Doctor!

Can't be too long until we find out, now.

Totally off topic - which Tom should be the next 007?

Hiddleston or Hardy?

If you havent already seen "The Night Manager" or "Taboo", please do so, both great series

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

It's all about change!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RgOnpry9FCI

Totally off topic - which Tom should be the next 007?

Sellack

Sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. We've seen it again and again. In Massachusetts, when the Supreme Court forced the state to accept same sex marriages, polls showed support at around 30%. That was just 12 years ago, in an extremely liberal state. Now, polls show support in the high 70's and 80's. You can also see similar shifts everywhere in the country, even in the reddest states. Yes, some of those people died out. But not that many in 12 years. As the laws have changed, more and more people have come out. And as more have come out, it has helped even more to come out. And as they have, more and more people have become exposed to LGBT people in their daily lives. And that ABSOLUTELY has made the difference. In addition, the social stigma around homophobia has made many people reconsider their old notions. Certainly not all of those people went from flaming bigots to loving LGBT people. There are lots of different levels of change among the public. But there has been notable and dramatic and measurable change in people's attitudes in a strikingly short amount of time.

I sense a clash of terminology.
You can think of bigotry like so: "He who cannot reason is a fool. He who dare not reason is a slave. He who will not reason is a bigot."
It seems to me you describe prejudice rather than bigotry, because the people in your example did eventually listen to reason.

SellackI seem to recall Broccoli actually considered casting Sellack, or another American actor, as Bond at one time. I know he often considered hiring an American Bond but never actually went through with it, though it did almost happen between Lazenby and Connery's return. A well known American TV actor was signed to play Bond but MGM vetoed it in favor of Connery returning.

I seem to recall Broccoli actually considered casting Sellack, or another American actor, as Bond at one time. I know he often considered hiring an American Bond but never actually went through with it, though it did almost happen between Lazenby and Connery's return. A well known American TV actor was signed to play Bond but MGM vetoed it in favor of Connery returning.

Sam Neill did a screen test too. Wasn't it James Brolin up at one point?

Sam Neill did a screen test too. Wasn't James Brolin up at one point?You are correct. Brolin and Neill were among the actors tested when it seemed like Roger Moore wouldn't be coming back for Octopussy.

Wasn't able to connect to the site for a few weeks for some reason there. What did everyone think of the finale?

Wasn't able to connect to the site for a few weeks for some reason there. What did everyone think of the finale?

I quite enjoyed it, despite the Moffattisms. I think it's been the best series for ages. I'm glad that PC's been able to go out with a good year's bunch of stories. And I loved the end of the last story. I just hope we're not let down with PC's swansong.

Political correctness has swanned off?

Is it just me or has ABB vanished. I do a google search and no sign of the regular site...

Is it just me or has ABB vanished. I do a google search and no sign of the regular site...


Trying putting .la at the end of the address. There's all sorts of mirror version in different countries.

Wasn't able to connect to the site for a few weeks for some reason there. What did everyone think of the finale?

As much as I liked the penultimate episode, I wasn't that impressed with the finale. New Who is far too concerned with getting the feels & although I know that's way of modern TV, I think the more often they do it, the less impact it has. I cried my eyes out when The Doctor & Rose said goodbye on the beach & I was heartbroken when Donna lost her memory but by the time Bill shed tears over The Doctors lifeless body, I honestly just didn't care. It's becoming a tired, old formula.
Unfortunately, when Xmas comes, we're due for more of the same...

Is it just me or has ABB vanished. I do a google search and no sign of the regular site...

.me/ is working for me just now. I used to have a little list of all the alternative endings. I seem to have lost it now,

I tried the .me but got a message saying that it was a probable phishing site and wouldn't let me go any further :(

Try .la, it's the one that's working for me at this time.

Try .la, it's the one that's working for me at this time.

I was on the .me one and then searched for something and was on the .la one. I'd go with .la

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------


As much as I liked the penultimate episode, I wasn't that impressed with the finale. New Who is far too concerned with getting the feels & although I know that's way of modern TV, I think the more often they do it, the less impact it has. I cried my eyes out when The Doctor & Rose said goodbye on the beach & I was heartbroken when Donna lost her memory but by the time Bill shed tears over The Doctors lifeless body, I honestly just didn't care. It's becoming a tired, old formula.
Unfortunately, when Xmas comes, we're due for more of the same...

I felt sad at Bill at the end of the penultimate episode, but not when it looked like the Doc was dead. As I say, it's the Moffattisms I don't like, and you've just pointed one out. I still enjoyed things despite that. It's the Moffattisms I hope don't ruin PC's last episode.

I was severely disappointed with the finale. especially after the build-up of the previous episode. Once again Moff turned the Cybes into little more than paper threats while he concentrated the majority of the story on his ridiculous little soap opera. And I really hated that, once again, Moff just couldn't kill off a main character and let it stick. Instead he had to pull one of his fancy little last minute saves and go for the sappy feel good ending. That little fete got old a long time ago. About the only thing I did like about the episode was the final few moments when 12 met 1. Hopefully someone else is writing 12's exit because if it's Moff you just know he'll try to be overly clever and muck it up and I'd hate to see Capaldi go out on a sour note. He deserves better.

I was severely disappointed with the finale. especially after the build-up of the previous episode. Once again Moff turned the Cybes into little more than paper threats while he concentrated the majority of the story on his ridiculous little soap opera. And I really hated that, once again, Moff just couldn't kill off a main character and let it stick. Instead he had to pull one of his fancy little last minute saves and go for the sappy feel good ending. That little fete got old a long time ago. About the only thing I did like about the episode was the final few moments when 12 met 1. Hopefully someone else is writing 12's exit because if it's Moff you just know he'll try to be overly clever and muck it up and I'd hate to see Capaldi go out on a sour note. He deserves better.

I understand it's written by Moff, unfortunately.

I'm hoping its all a ruse. I feel like PC has finally settled into the roll and would love to see him stay for at least another series.

For his doc I don't fell like there has been enough backlog of episodes made. Maybe this because of the large period of no episodes.

Once again Moff turned the Cybes into little more than paper threats while he concentrated the majority of the story on his ridiculous little soap opera.

Agreed. And after all that build-up to revealing The Master, he didn't actually do anything apart from hang around & make the odd comment.

Agreed. And after all that build-up to revealing The Master, he didn't actually do anything apart from hang around & make the odd comment.

That's all he was really relied upon TO do, because his main funtion in the story was to have Moff fill in the holes of his regen into Missy.
That's it.

Moff hates to leave holes in the story (mostly his own, but also the canon), and takes it upon himself to be the one to fill those holes.
He even made sure that he was the one who addressed and "solved" the 12 regenerations problem.

As for Bill "cheating death", it was patently obvious from the 1st episode that the "Pilot" would be the means by which Bill left the series.
Yes, it was shocking that she would be turned into a Cyber!!!, but the out was always the "puddle girl".
Did Bill really escape death? Well... the FINALITY of death, yes. But she DID die. Her essence was transmuted (because you can't destroy energy) by "the Pilot" and for now, she's just another puddle-girl (tho the Pilot DID say that as atoms and molecules can easily be rearranged, a return to human form is possible - but seriously, that's just the exact same thing that happens every time someone teleports or transmats).

Is Moff Sappy? Yes.
Are his stories convoluted? Yes, but I like intricate plotlines and time-jumpy stories (especially for a series whose premise is ALL about time travel).

I'm SO sad to see Cap-aldi go.
He was excellent, and sadly, poorly served by bad scripts for his other seasons.
But I think (well... I HOPE) that the Christmas finale will be as grand as the premise potentially should be.

My 2 cents.

I'm hoping its all a ruse. I feel like PC has finally settled into the roll and would love to see him stay for at least another series.

For his doc I don't fell like there has been enough backlog of episodes made. Maybe this because of the large period of no episodes.

I've the same feeling. It only feels like he's about halfway through his run, for me anyway.



Oh, and well summed up stupidbuttonmasher :)

Agreed. And after all that build-up to revealing The Master, he didn't actually do anything apart from hang around & make the odd comment.
He turned Bill into a Cyberman just to piss off the Doctor
He murdered his future incarnation

He did quite a bit

Ok, he did a bit.

The Master didn't do much except turn Bill into a cyberman and the multimaster story was surprisingly underutilised, but the banter was funny nonetheless.

Moff hates to leave holes in the story (mostly his own, but also the canon), and takes it upon himself to be the one to fill those holes.
He even made sure that he was the one who addressed and "solved" the 12 regenerations problem.

That's Moff all over. That's why the 1st shows up. Because Moff wants to film his lost regen sequence. I just wish moff would quit screwin with the past doctors.

Dear Moff, You've got your own (wonderful) doctors (& friends) to play with - plz keep your grubby little mitts off the rest! When you "fix" these "problems", it doesn't prove how clever you are - it only shows us how petty you are, for thinking it needed to be done in the first place. And it reveals just how trite, shallow, and UNORIGINAL your story ideas have become. Why not actually leave your OWN mark by doing something daring, bold, refreshing, and new; but without damaging the IP? If nothing else, it might behoove you to show a lil more respect to the many people who have come before you. They didn't ask for you to "fix" what they worked so hard on making. Thanks for the memories. There were some great times we had together. But plz bugger off already, without splainin to me why "it was never broke in the first place" - we (real fans, who aren't burdened with self-loathing for liking the old show) already knew that. I say this with respect for all the wonderfully great things you have done for us (albeit with some of the dumbest inconsistencies ever. - you never let the characters write the story, they are always sandwiched into it, often exhibiting character traits and actions which don't make the least bit of sense). We do appreciate your efforts. Many times you were often very clever, and that was pretty cool. But clever is not the same as intelligent, wise, or even smart. And being heartfelt & significant is not the same thing as being deep & poignant. You seem to get all these mixed up a lot. You were poignant at times though, and THOSE were actually your greatest of moments. But clever people (with a good heart) often stumble into that, it's one of the great things about being clever, (when it's tempered with compassion). And to be sure - we definitely & absolutely, appreciated your compassion, as I'm sure countless future generations will (assuming we survive). You have done us a great service for a number of years and we thank you. Cheers mate.

PS - The master shooting themselves in the back and laughing about it, THAT was perfect and priceless!! It's utter simplicity, and absolutely horrifying hilarity, is what turns it's clever poignancy into a master stroke of genius.

That's why the 1st shows up. Because Moff wants to film his lost regen sequence. I just wish moff would quit screwin with the past doctors.
I think it's more to do with justifying this little business of the 1st Doctor disappearing with no explanation in one of the episodes of his final story. Out-of-universe, Hartnell was severely ill, so they had him sit out filming one of the episodes so he'd be recovered enough to have the stamina to finish the story. In-universe, we don't know what the 1st Doctor got up to, so it seems perfectly reasonable for there to be a separate little adventure in there somewhere. It's honestly the same kind of continuity gap that LC would've filled themselves if given the opportunity, not unlike how they gave the Sixth Doctor a proper regeneration. But since Moffat's taken it upon himself to do it, I think we're in for an interesting treat come Christmas. That said, if Moffat has entitled the episode "Twelve to One", I'll throttle him...

Why does everything have to be interpreted as Moff screwing with the show. At the moment it's still his show. Just like when Robert Holmes messed up the Timelords by introducing the regeneration limited in Deadly Assassin because he hated the way they were immortal beings.

Why does everything have to be interpreted as Moff screwing with the show. At the moment it's still his show. Just like when Robert Holmes messed up the Timelords by introducing the regeneration limited in Deadly Assassin because he hated the way they were immortal beings.

That's a very good point, it is Moffat's show & cannon is his to decide. And fans panned The Deadly Assassin, at the time so only time will tell whether Moffat will be seen as another Robert Holmes or a John Nathan Turner.

Give it a year or so and we'll probably be seeing the same comments about Chibnall once he takes over. It seems it's human nature to complain...

I think it's more to do with justifying this little business of the 1st Doctor disappearing with no explanation in one of the episodes of his final story. Out-of-universe, Hartnell was severely ill, so they had him sit out filming one of the episodes so he'd be recovered enough to have the stamina to finish the story. In-universe, we don't know what the 1st Doctor got up to, so it seems perfectly reasonable for there to be a separate little adventure in there somewhere. It's honestly the same kind of continuity gap that LC would've filled themselves if given the opportunity, not unlike how they gave the Sixth Doctor a proper regeneration. But since Moffat's taken it upon himself to do it, I think we're in for an interesting treat come Christmas. That said, if Moffat has entitled the episode "Twelve to One", I'll throttle him...

The Doctor's seen asleep in a bunk in episode 3. At least twice, I think.

The Doctor's seen asleep in a bunk in episode 3. At least twice, I think.

Correct.
BUT... was it REALLY #1 OR was it #12 undergoing a strange regen (where he flipped through past faces, whilst unconscious) while the real #1 was fulfilling some SECRET CHRISTMAS MISSION!?!?

Dun! DUN! DUN!!!

;-)

That said, if Moffat has entitled the episode "Twelve to One", I'll throttle him...

Wikipedia is calling it 'The Doctors'.

Hey Exterminate Me, trying to send you a thing here but it says you need to clear up some PM space mate

I would relinquish wine quotas as usual except for, y'know, the presence of certain absolute particles floating around

Hey Exterminate Me, trying to send you a thing here but it says you need to clear up some PM space mate

I would relinquish wine quotas as usual except for, y'know, the presence of certain absolute particles floating around

Its really not worth the hassle :(

And for the record - If you didn't tldr my letter to Moff, you'll find that i praise him quite a bit. There are many things he deserves praise for. A critique of certain aspects of a writer's style, is not the same as complaining. Neither is expressing one's opinions on how things could be done better. After all, isn't a rational discussion and examination of the way these stories are written, a fundamental part of any good discussion forum? I'm all for hearing HOW or WHY people might disagree with my opinion (Which, being an opinion, should obviously be taken with a grain of salt.)

The problem with stories like "a town called xmas" is that they don't actually have much of a plot outside of "this is how i fixed it". Personally, I don't care, I'd much rather just have a great DW story. If it manages to clear some things up, cool. But it should never BE the plot. Start with a good character driven story, and then work from there. The opposite approach just leads to a lackuster final product.

Self critique - The point about BigF is a good one. They do some gap filling as well, but it rarely seems quite as disrespectful to it's predecessors or it's audience. (Although there's lots of room to critique BF's valeyard story, for similar reasons.) But perhaps, it's the other aspects of SM's writing that makes me cringe when he does these retcon things. Perhaps years of BigF and retcon comics have soured me a bit on the stories DRIVEN by fan service. I just want good DW stories first and foremost. The "fixing things" should always take a backseat to that, and should never seem forced (like it did in "Town"). And if Chris writes things i don't care for, i will express that - just like i will express my opinions for the things i like about his story telling.

I AM curious to hear all your thoughts on the subgect, as long as they aren't just outright dismissals with no rationale attached.

blah blah blahbitty blah...
I AM curious to hear all your thoughts on the subgect, as long as they aren't just outright dismissals with no rationale attached.

jlatx,

You are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!, and probably stinky... and I can honestly say, without ever seeing you that you're some kind of mutant (AND... you dress funny).

lol

OBVIOUSLY, that was all in jest.
;-P

When I read your "Letter to Moff" I was, at first, a little bit whiplashed between the downward, negative comments and then the rising, glowing praise. But then I realized that my own comment, which preceded it (to which you were "replying") could also have been read much the same way.

My critique of Moff proclaiming himself "fixer" is meant with equal measure of praise and disdain.
Truthfully, AS a creative person, in a medium of sequential storytelling, you will sometimes come across plot holes, event-gaps, and irksome continuity "errors" that you feel can and should be filled in.
The difference is; are you going to address the ones that directly involve the stories that YOU are telling, OR are you going to let your ego be your guide and take it upon yourself to "fix" them ALL - lest some other "writer" (who may not live up to your high praise of your own abilities) be the one to muck it up.

As I said, I LIKE convoluted stories. Especially (and I really am not a fan of the term, but it serves its purpose: "timey-wimey") time-travel, paradoxical stories.
Moff does those fairly well (when he gets out of his own way).

If I were to stack up the stories from Moffs tenure, the ones that HE wrote are not prevalently numbered among those in which I have issue. Oh, he wrote some questionable content, to be sure... but there were FAR worse stories from other writers.

Is it that whilst wearing his "showrunner" hat, is wherein he saw fit to "fix" things that he saw required fixing?
Perhaps. That would make sense.
It's just tricky that he THEN put on his "writer" hat and took it upon himself to do so.

Unlike you, I LIKE "A town called Christmas". It's not a great story, per se... but Matt puts in a fantastic performance, and makes a silk purse out of a possible "sow's ear".

On the subject of Retconning... as a comic reader, as well, I'm long-familiar with the practice and truly, it doesn't faze me much any more. As long as the retcons are logical and well-written (and not sledgehammered into place) I'm ok with it.

Another writer can always come along and UNDO the retcon (retcon the retcon), as long as THAT makes sense as well...
And let's face it, with a time-traveler who constantly crosses his own time-stream, it's VERY possible for the Doctor to retcon his retcons quite easily.

So, that's it for me.
As usual, that was just...
My 2 cents.

The issue I have with all the discussion around Moff is the treatment of his reasons for doing retconning etc. I feel I must stress that those statements are merely the opinions of the posters and should not be taken as fact. We do not know for certain his motives for retconning or filling in the blanks, so we should, therefore, make it clear that our judgement of him for doing so is based on the fact that they are OUR interpretations of his reasons for doing so.. He might not be thinking "now is my chance to have absolute power and fix some of the previous showrunners' mistakes", he may just think "this is a fun idea for a cracking story".

By the same regard we should be aware that we are basing our responses on our judgements of what the posters' intentions were for making their posts.

And if your interpretation is different to mine it must clearly be incorrect......isn't that how this all works? (insert big smiley face here)

It wasn't until I got an automatic message from Shrine with regard to the latest contribution of The Jez, that I realized Shrine was posting again since 6/22.
Thanks yet again TJ for the fine gift.
Was wondering however, since I had not been surfing the site since about 3 weeks ago, whether any one had uled LC's No.6 of The Leftover Guys or has it ever been posted even before.
Surprising, since the last 5 episodes had been posted right here earlier and it's such a good adult series. Much better then the low budjet TV series.
Or maybe one of our great angels may have secured it and just forgot to UL it.
Whatever if anyone might happen to come across it, I'm sure we would all be so grateful for a share.
Thanks in advance just in case.
Long live Shrine.

It wasn't until I got an automatic message from Shrine with regard to the latest contribution of The Jez, that I realized Shrine was posting again since 6/22.
Thanks yet again TJ for the fine gift.
Was wondering however, since I had not been surfing the site since about 3 weeks ago, whether any one had uled LC's No.6 of The Leftover Guys or has it ever been posted even before.
Surprising, since the last 5 episodes had been posted right here earlier and it's such a good adult series. Much better then the low budjet TV series.
Or maybe one of our great angels may have secured it and just forgot to UL it.
Whatever if anyone might happen to come across it, I'm sure we would all be so grateful for a share.
Thanks in advance just in case.
Long live Shrine.

It hasn't been posted here, but it's in the bay. Thanks to the recent upheaval, nothing is getting posted openly any more :(

Thanks to the recent upheaval, nothing is getting posted openly any more :(

Why anyone would continue to post links to copyrighted material on a Go-ooo-gole indexed site is beyond me.

Why anyone would continue to post links to copyrighted material on a Go-ooo-gole indexed site is beyond me.

Yeah, but it was fun while it lasted :)

The issue I have with all the discussion around Moff is the treatment of his reasons for doing retconning etc. I feel I must stress that those statements are merely the opinions of the posters and should not be taken as fact. We do not know for certain his motives for retconning or filling in the blanks, so we should, therefore, make it clear that our judgement of him for doing so is based on the fact that they are OUR interpretations of his reasons for doing so.. He might not be thinking "now is my chance to have absolute power and fix some of the previous showrunners' mistakes", he may just think "this is a fun idea for a cracking story".

THIS!
EVERY. WORD. OF. THIS!

Seriously, if there's one thing I'm utterly sick of in fandom (and not just in Who fandom!), it's fans deciding that they know exactly why writers and producers made the decisions that they made and then getting very, very angry at these writers and producers for having these assumed motives that they've never even claimed they have in the first place.

Moff told us EXACTLY why he brought back Sim. He though it would be tremendous fun to have the two M's meet. (Not so) strangely enough, that's the EXACT reason that LC had the two M's meet in their audios the year before, but no one questioned their motives. But they're not the controversial and hated producer who always has nefarious motives.

It also gave him the opportunity to wrap up his own storyline of the M going good in what most fans have said was the most perfect way possible.

As to what Sim did in the episodes? Well, he was stuck on this station. Then he saw his future self helping the Medic and spent the rest of his time trying to get the Medic and his future self to hate each other again. That was the whole point of Cyberizing William, after all. And for the hell of it and the fun of it. But then, they were all stuck, and he had to work with them. Then the glorious finale to both of their stories with their murder/suicides of each other. He actually kills her to stop her from becoming what he doesn't want her to be. And she kills him to ensure that he DOES become her. That's actually quite crucial to the whole plotline of the episodes and to her overall storyline, don't you think? No, he wasn't on camera all through both episodes. But with so much going on, that's hardly surprising.

By the way, there was no retcon at all involved. RTD never showed how his M's story ended. Presumably, it happened after his last story. That puts that story solidly into the Moff's domain. He could have continued to use that actor if he'd wanted to, but he chose the surprise of using a new female version. And we won't know if there is any retcon of 1's regen until X-Mas. But fitting in something that happened before it is not a retcon, since it doesn't actually change anything that originally happened. If adding more to the story in between is retconning, then the entirety of LC's output is one giant retcon!

In fact, there are very few actual retcons that he's done. The only real big one I can think of is adding in the War Medic. And the only real reason he did that was because he couldn't get Nine's actor aboard for the anniversary special. So, where's all this supposed disrespect for the show's history? If anything, I'd say that he shows constant respect for the history of the show!

Now, none of that is to say that all of his stories and ideas are great, or that anyone has to like them. But let's stop deciding other people's motivations for them. And maybe trust what they actually tell us were their motivations sometimes?

Hey Exterminate Me, trying to send you a thing here but it says you need to clear up some PM space mate

I would relinquish wine quotas as usual except for, y'know, the presence of certain absolute particles floating around

Thanks, I've cleared some space now :)

I've cleared some space

Good man.


Lot of Moff-talk going on these last few days! I love him as much as the rest of you (?) but what really cheeses my onions is that, with all the callbacks and effort made to make sense of continuity over the last few series, we STILL don't have any official canonical closure for Ace. The different versions given by the novels / comics / BF / SJA screw with my head-canon and the thought of so many Sophie Aldreds literally keeps me up at night



*cough*

1) buttonmasher - i couldn't agree more. with almost every bit of that. And I like Town even though its an awful "story". There have been many eps (from many writers) that are good eps, but with terrible stories. The 8's short was mostly fantastic and had a terrible story.

2) I have NOT just randomly come up with a conjecture about SM's reasoning out of thin air. True, i can't know his deepest innermost thoughts. But i sub to DWM, so on top of the countless number of words on the subject that he's contributed there over the years, I have also seen and read hours and reams of other interviews over many years. In which, I have had ample time to carefully examine and consider his words. And still, I'm only going to bring up ONE thing which I've noticed consistently over and over in all this time... He is embarrassed by the old show. He loves it, but he is always apologizing for it, as if it needed an apology. There are countless examples of this. With that in mind, it makes his motivation for anything he does with 1-8, a bit suspect. True, I can't KNOW, but it also ain't my first rodeo.

3) I love SM's master way more than RTD's. I had no problems with any of the season finale or his handling of either master. The retcons I mean are things like "Clara showed the 1st which tardis to take, and helped EVERY doc EVER". That's the kinda crap that's unnecessary and disrespectful. TRUE, he doesn't do it much, but when he does, it hardly ever smells good.

4) Cant argue with the well reasoned points about BF. But because it isn't usually embarrassed by its love for classic dw, it hardly ever comes across feeling disrespectful to me. Sometimes pointless, and sometimes a bit too self congratulatory to be sure (NB's stuff especially). Jonathan Morris however, always brings a great SCIFI STORY to the table, and has always seemed humble to me. He continually proves quality storytelling can still be done in DW.

5) I love J. Hurt. He can do no wrong. But if SM couldn't get nine (which wouldn't even make sense, as he had CLEARLY just regenned at the beginning of RTD), why not just use 8 - who was obviously willing. Instead, he made 8's death rather trite and sorta pointless. He shoulda gone down in a blaze of glory.

6) THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH for reading my long-winded BS. (some topics deserve lengthy discourse, so that we may understand one another) And THANK YOU ALL for every contribution, especially those who disagree. (Well every post that doesn't include name calling or homophobia etc). You have my love.

5) I love J. Hurt. He can do no wrong. But if SM couldn't get nine (which wouldn't even make sense, as he had CLEARLY just regenned at the beginning of RTD), why not just use 8 - who was obviously willing. Instead, he made 8's death rather trite and sorta pointless. He shoulda gone down in a blaze of glory.
I think that it was trite and pointless was the intention, really. Eight had been steadily being broken by his experiences in the audios and I saw his outfit in "The Night of the Doctor" was his last ditch attempt at trying to be the person he once was before the death of that Northern lass who traveled with him. I also suppose that woman Cass who he attempted to rescue lumping him in with the rest of the Time Lords as the Time War was raging on was the straw that broke the camel's back for him, and was the final push to finally give up not taking any part in the conflict and become someone who'd be unfettered enough to face the Daleks (and Time Lords) head-on without many of the moral compunctions that held him back in his previous incarnations. Not to mention the fact he'd have a chance to properly and decisively strike back at the universe who broke him.

I am with you on the late J. Hurt, though. Wish I could've met him and have him sign my copy of the War Doctor novel "Engines of War". Plus, I would've told him how much I loved watching "Jim Henson's The Storyteller" growing up.

1) buttonmasher - i couldn't agree more. with almost every bit of that. And I like Town even though its an awful "story". There have been many eps (from many writers) that are good eps, but with terrible stories. The 8's short was mostly fantastic and had a terrible story.


Wait... even the smelly & dress funny bit?
;-)


1)
...

6) THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH for reading my long-winded BS. (some topics deserve lengthy discourse, so that we may understand one another) And THANK YOU ALL for every contribution, especially those who disagree. (Well every post that doesn't include name calling or homophobia etc). You have my love.

I must also echo this sentiment, as my posts tend to be long-winded, semi-nonsensical hypotheses (quasi-intentionally).
Thank you for everyone who endures my posts and haven't exiled me to some backwater world.

I do hope that fine fellows like Besthead & Timevortex understand that I use "MAY" and "PERHAPS" with question marks at the end of my sentences to show that I am not speaking fact, but merely personal conjecture.

Please read this entire post as me speaking with a well-intentioned smile on my face.
No ill intent. No animosity. No regrets, no tears, no anxieties... wait.... that's from sonewhere...

TRUST me, if there's ANYTHING that I know, it's that I don't know ANYTHING.
I mean... "stupid" is right at the forefront of my username.

I LOVE MEDIC WHAT of ALL (re)generations and eras, and have nary a bad word for any of the writers who have come and gone.
It's not heretical (or even controversial) to state there are some (ok, quite a few) bad stories (or at least ones that could have been better, for one reason or other), but I don't know that anyone is stating definitively that they KNOW why such-and-such behind-the-scenes decisions are made.

jlatx bases some of his statements on what he's read from Moff, but as I've not read the same sources, I wouldn't claim to speak from any special knowledge.

As for retcons, as stated above, I'm not against them if handled well, and yes, they do exist.
But when dealing with a story about space/time, it's simple to make them blend in with the narrative.
(Sometimes, they can be quite cleverly included.)

However, while I stand by my opinion that Moff sees himself as the person to want to fill in the holes as he sees them (seriously, he could have left the question of the 12 regenerations to the NEXT guy, but he didn't... why not? It really didn't affect his story - until he MADE it do so - primarily with the inclusion of the WarMedic, and then the jiggery math of 10's aborted regen...) nowhere am I stating that these things are BAD or that the creative people in charge aren't making decisions / writing stories because they think it's a fun idea.

SO that's my additional 2cents.
(I wonder if I'm accruing "interest" with these "deposits"? Be it financial or from you mutually-minded members who marvel at the Medic.)
Peace to everyone here.

The retcons I mean are things like "Clara showed the 1st which tardis to take, and helped EVERY doc EVER". That's the kinda crap that's unnecessary and disrespectful.

Now, I may be a complete fool, but my understanding was that this didn't happen?

Clara was able to do her cluster-retcon by getting into the Doctor's timeline via the dying TARDIS on Trenzalore - because the Doctor had died there and the TARDIS was decaying, yeah?

But because she later managed to get a message to Gallifrey during 'Time of the Doctor' to send over a new regeneration cycle, the Doctor didn't die after all. So her retconning was itself retconned out of existence. I think?

I'm doubting myself now!

3) I love SM's master way more than RTD's. I had no problems with any of the season finale or his handling of either master. The retcons I mean are things like "Clara showed the 1st which tardis to take, and helped EVERY doc EVER". That's the kinda crap that's unnecessary and disrespectful. TRUE, he doesn't do it much, but when he does, it hardly ever smells good.


As much as I LOVE Clara (sorry, I know that's a fairly controversial stance) THAT scene absolutely rips me out of the story and causes a lot of thoughts that tear the whole thing apart.
Since she had been scattered along the Medic's timeline, she appears on Gall-i-world.
So, she would HAVE to be a Gall-i-world-ian, as they didn't permit (icky) humans to be there (barely tolerating "The Savage" during 4's tenure - centuries later).
OR - is she some phantasm?
That doesn't quite hold true as they showed some of her other life-essences having childhoods, thus, being born in different incarnations across the timelines.

And, for that matter, HOW did she get on the BLUEBOX when she was looking for 6 there?
Or Gall-i-world again when seeing 4 & 5?
Or were those metaphorical aspects - as I would surmise was the case when she saw 8 and 2 run past her in a park.
Was the "park setting" in the Medic's subconsciousness? IS that where his different mental aspects hang out?
(That, and the dark, gloomy setting where WAR was first shown.)

I'm assuming she and they were all phantom forms, adrift in his timeline, that could appear on the periphery of his consciousness... except when she was actually BORN and lived in a certain timeline, like as the governess/barmaid and an astronaut/Peppot???

Sadly... an example of character/history retcon that doesn't seem to have been ironed out properly.
Still, that was how she became "Impossible".




5) I love J. Hurt. He can do no wrong. But if SM couldn't get nine (which wouldn't even make sense, as he had CLEARLY just regenned at the beginning of RTD), why not just use 8 - who was obviously willing. Instead, he made 8's death rather trite and sorta pointless. He shoulda gone down in a blaze of glory.


I think that it was trite and pointless was the intention, really. Eight had been steadily being broken by his experiences in the audios and I saw his outfit in "The Night of the Doctor" was his last ditch attempt at trying to be the person he once was before the death of that Northern lass who traveled with him. I also suppose that woman Cass who he attempted to rescue lumping him in with the rest of the Time Lords as the Time War was raging on was the straw that broke the camel's back for him, and was the final push to finally give up not taking any part in the conflict and become someone who'd be unfettered enough to face the Daleks (and Time Lords) head-on without many of the moral compunctions that held him back in his previous incarnations. Not to mention the fact he'd have a chance to properly and decisively strike back at the universe who broke him.


As much as I loved 8's Edwardian original look and attitude, many of his stories were of showing this bright, lively, hopeful Medic being torn apart, beaten by disastrous fates, disillusioned by death and war... so the logical thing would have been for 8 to go full-circle and become the hardened "WarMedic".
That would have been tragic(!) but a better end than just powerlessly dying in a wreck that he could have escaped (he COULD have has the BlueBox reappear on Cass' side of the door and whisk her away, but he didn't).
He died impotently.

Then, he succumbs to the depression of it all and says "Medic No More", to become a warrior.
It's a physical change that took the place of the metaphorical character change that would have been more likely...?

However, it served ONE good thing:
His regen allowed 8 to live and die as a man of peace.
Who gave his life even TRYING to save another - even though he knew that he would only be keeping company to a doomed woman - all the way down to the end.

So, I'm torn by 8's life and ultimate fate.
His life, like so many of our own, was not fair, and his end... leaves a bittersweet yet ashen taste in my mouth.

He deserved so much better.

---------- Post added at 08:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 AM ----------


Now, I may be a complete fool, but my understanding was that this didn't happen?

Clara was able to do her cluster-retcon by getting into the Doctor's timeline via the dying TARDIS on Trenzalore - because the Doctor had died there and the TARDIS was decaying, yeah?

But because she later managed to get a message to Gallifrey during 'Time of the Doctor' to send over a new regeneration cycle, the Doctor didn't die after all. So her retconning was itself retconned out of existence. I think?

I'm doubting myself now!

From what I gathered, her going into the timestream was to NEGATE what the INTELLIGENCE was doing, while he was killing off all the Medic's aspecs.
She was there to circumvent those instances and save him during those instances (although, not once did they show this altercation - so it is confusing).

She DID go to all those places and then was plucked back out of that fractured existence by having her essence brought back with 11 (somehow?!? - I mean, they were both within his timestream, so I'm a little foggy on how she got out. The episode ends there.)

"You saved me, so just this once, Let me save YOU!", he said.
But HOW? By tossing a leaf at her, it allowed her essence to follow it's normal life-path and everything UP until the point of her jumping in to his timestream happened, BUT she never jumped in - because she already jumped in and saved everything?


That would mean that she STILL jumped in, and "died" there, but the Medic "carried" her essence back to its beginnings - thus causing and sealing a paradoxical temporal anomaly?

Or can we just assume that 11 stepped BACK out of his "time scar" with Clara in his arms?


Agh! Head... hurt.

LOL

I think - think - that the survival of the Doctor in 'Time' retroactively invalidated every single aspect of 'Name', including the Great Intelligence's plan and the Doctor being left carrying Clara around his own timestream (and subsequently making 'Name' function as little more than a fanwank audience introduction to 'War').

I'm frankly scared to analyse it any further for fear of breaking my brain - but, if you as an audience member already knew the War Medic existed, you could go straight from Nightmare in Silver to Day of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor and it would all make sense.

Latest little stumble, Critical Moment, is available where the boats come in.

I think - think - that the survival of the Doctor in 'Time' retroactively invalidated every single aspect of 'Name', including the Great Intelligence's plan and the Doctor being left carrying Clara around his own timestream (and subsequently making 'Name' function as little more than a fanwank audience introduction to 'War').

I'm frankly scared to analyse it any further for fear of breaking my brain - but, if you as an audience member already knew the War Medic existed, you could go straight from Nightmare in Silver to Day of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor and it would all make sense.

Ahhh... I see what you mean.
IF the Medic doesn't die on Trenz, then there's no giant BlueBox grave for the GI or Clara to jump into.

BUT...perhaps (just perhaps, mind you) the grave is a fixed point - just not the point we THOUGHT it was to have been - and the Medic ends up dying there at some unspecified time in the future...
then, it's STILL his grave and all those story aspects are still valid.

Its not like he doesn't accidentally stumble onto the same planets time and again...and again...and...

Still, I don't recall anyone, anywhere saying that it was circumvented (or if they did, I missed it, so please point me to where it was so I can finally settle my poor little mind).

Timey-wimey, indeed.


***Update***

Because absolutely NO-ONE asked me to...
I just checked out a few wikis on Trez, and it is still technically listed as the site of the Medic's final resting place.

Maybe (maybe) now when he DOES go there, it might be on purpose - because he liked it and so that he keeps the timeline (of Name) intact.

Although "tradis".wikia lists an "original" and "new" timeline for the planet - they don't conjecture if he goes there at some point in the future. Only that the war didn't end as a mass grave.

Thinking about all this paradoxical nonsense makes my brains hurt. I'm going back to bed until it stops.

Now all we have to sort out is how the Del/Ain/Simm etc renegade managed to die so many times yet keep coming back in stories.......maybe Medic has the same power to cheat death and keep the adventures going.
All this timey-wiminess isn't limited to the new series......

I'm sure they're just making it up as they go along with absolutely no plan or clue as to what they're doing! Isn't it great? I love this show. 8)

For anyone who was wondering why a certain persistent nuisance has been so quiet lately it seems his privileges have been terminated. For the time being he'll no longer be a problem.

For anyone who was wondering why a certain persistent nuisance has been so quiet lately it seems his privileges have been terminated. For the time being he'll no longer be a problem.

wonderful news.............he was a nasty piece of work, hopefully he will bugger off and get some therapy

Depends what he actually got banned for but I've got a feeling he'll be back and worse than ever so we might want to curb any inflamatory posts about him. Don't give him any more reasons than he thinks he already needs ;)

That's a very good point, it is Moffat's show & cannon is his to decide. And fans panned The Deadly Assassin, at the time so only time will tell whether Moffat will be seen as another Robert Holmes or a John Nathan Turner.

Also for todays youngsters, they don't have that history of watching the show for years so this is their continuity unfolding for them. Of course in 30 years, they'll be moaning about whoever is in charge messing with what was established by Moff :D

---------- Post added at 08:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------


1) buttonmasher - i couldn't agree more. with almost every bit of that. And I like Town even though its an awful "story". There have been many eps (from many writers) that are good eps, but with terrible stories. The 8's short was mostly fantastic and had a terrible story.

2) I have NOT just randomly come up with a conjecture about SM's reasoning out of thin air. True, i can't know his deepest innermost thoughts. But i sub to DWM, so on top of the countless number of words on the subject that he's contributed there over the years, I have also seen and read hours and reams of other interviews over many years. In which, I have had ample time to carefully examine and consider his words. And still, I'm only going to bring up ONE thing which I've noticed consistently over and over in all this time... He is embarrassed by the old show. He loves it, but he is always apologizing for it, as if it needed an apology. There are countless examples of this. With that in mind, it makes his motivation for anything he does with 1-8, a bit suspect. True, I can't KNOW, but it also ain't my first rodeo.

3) I love SM's master way more than RTD's. I had no problems with any of the season finale or his handling of either master. The retcons I mean are things like "Clara showed the 1st which tardis to take, and helped EVERY doc EVER". That's the kinda crap that's unnecessary and disrespectful. TRUE, he doesn't do it much, but when he does, it hardly ever smells good.

4) Cant argue with the well reasoned points about BF. But because it isn't usually embarrassed by its love for classic dw, it hardly ever comes across feeling disrespectful to me. Sometimes pointless, and sometimes a bit too self congratulatory to be sure (NB's stuff especially). Jonathan Morris however, always brings a great SCIFI STORY to the table, and has always seemed humble to me. He continually proves quality storytelling can still be done in DW.

5) I love J. Hurt. He can do no wrong. But if SM couldn't get nine (which wouldn't even make sense, as he had CLEARLY just regenned at the beginning of RTD), why not just use 8 - who was obviously willing. Instead, he made 8's death rather trite and sorta pointless. He shoulda gone down in a blaze of glory.

6) THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH for reading my long-winded BS. (some topics deserve lengthy discourse, so that we may understand one another) And THANK YOU ALL for every contribution, especially those who disagree. (Well every post that doesn't include name calling or homophobia etc). You have my love.

Apologies if this sounds like I'm picking on you but this is a great example of not knowing all the facts influencing our attitudes.

Moff has said that the BBC wanted a huge name as a guest star for Day if the couldn't get Eccleston so he was forced into a corner. There wasn't time to come up with a new story or insert a new lead character so he thought on his feet. Moff, of course, couldn't badmouth the BBC at the time so took the flack.

Personally I *loved* McGanns final story as it was such an Eighth Doctor thing to do to die that way. The only difference I would have made was using Night as pre-credits sequence in Day but leave it out of the press screening so it's a massive surprise on transmission.

Personally I *loved* McGanns final story as it was such an Eighth Doctor thing to do to die that way. The only difference I would have made was using Night as pre-credits sequence in Day but leave it out of the press screening so it's a massive surprite on transmission.Including Night as a pre-title sequence would have been mind blowing, but even as a stand alone minisode it was still a huge surprise. Of all the classics McGann was the one I never expected to ever see get the opportunity to reprise the role onscreen again so I was overjoyed to see Eight even for that brief moment....and of course the shout-out that legitimized his LC adventures was icing on the cake.

I'd just like to say Moff has been great IMO and I love my 80s Who and certainly have no problem with good ol' JNT. There'd be no Who at all nowadays without him.

Depends what he actually got banned for but I've got a feeling he'll be back and worse than ever so we might want to curb any inflamatory posts about him. Don't give him any more reasons than he thinks he already needs ;)

So I had best not say anything at all then LOL!

I'd just like to say Moff has been great IMO and I love my 80s Who and certainly have no problem with good ol' JNT. There'd be no Who at all nowadays without him.

Well, I am disappointed that, with all the Silurians that have popped up during Moffat's reign, we've seen no sign of The Myrka!

Well, I am disappointed that, with all the Silurians that have popped up during Moffat's reign, we've seen no sign of The Myrka!

I'll be gobsmacked when we finally get to see another RUTAN!

It's been a LONG time since "Horror of LongTooth Stone".
(And yes, I've seen "Sh@kedown"...does that count as being IN the Sont@r@n/Rut@n war? Because it sure felt like I was a casualty. lol)

I'll be gobsmacked when we finally get to see another RUTAN!

It's been a LONG time since "Horror of LongTooth Stone".
(And yes, I've seen "Sh@kedown"...does that count as being IN the Sont@r@n/Rut@n war? Because it sure felt like I was a casualty. lol)

There were no winners in that war! Another one I always hoped for was the Skarasen. What with all those Zygons living among us....

How about a Drashig comeback!!!

Breaking news
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-07-14/peter-capaldis-doctor-who-replacement-to-be-revealed-on-sundaypersonally I was hoping they'd keep it under wraps until the actual episode.

They can never keep it secret nowadays. So get it out there before someone else spoils it seems to be the norm.

Just to confuse you all - My PC died a death and while trying to remember my passwords for certain sites I Managed to recover my original membership on this site.

Yes I am also known as Robot D84.

It just seems I have to build up my reputation again on this one. :(

<www.sendspace.com/file/qzabyt-flashpoint>

So for those who are aquaphobic hit the usual button

I saw that and came to share the link but see that I was beaten to it.
Curse you WEBS01!
lol

Actually, to be truthful, while I AM (naturally) curious, I don't know if I'll abstain from actually WATCHING the reveal.
I'd REALLY rather be surprised, come Christmas, although I KNOW how impossible that will be (unless I lock myself in some kind of Vault or Pandorica or something).

Heck, even coming HERE after the reveal will definitely have some well-meaning person at least MENTION who it will be/is.

Modern fandom is a double-edged sword of instant gratification and too-much information.

Oh well... Fantast-Allon-Geroni-Shuttity-Up-UP-UP!!!

It just seems I have to build up my reputation again on this one. :(

Were you able to check your PMs before you regenerated, D84?

Were you able to check your PMs before you regenerated, D84?

No Sorry. But if you were looking for my last share it's hidden under #38083

Still active, just checked it

No Sorry. But if you were looking for my last share it's hidden under #38083

Still active, just checked it

Ha, no mate (but thanks), got something you might want but can't PM your new profile

Ha, no mate (but thanks), got something you might want but can't PM your new profile

OK Ill have to keep posting to build myself up. keep me in mind though. Thanks

Can't remember if it's 5 or 10 posts before you can PM but hopefully will get there soon :)

So anyway, If I've regenerated 3 times then reverted back to my first one, does that mean I'm a DEgenerate????? ;)

OK Ill have to keep posting to build myself up. keep me in mind though. Thanks

Er, read between the lines, D84!

Get it while you can, before they /Mov it.

<www.sendspace.com/file/bidk69/mov>

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------


Er, read between the lines, D84!
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Oooh! sometimes I can miss the blindingly obvious... Actually make that most times... Thanks

oh my............. new medic to be introduced this sunday!!!

Prediction: Kris Marshall
Preference: Phoebe Waller-Thingy
Would grudgingly settle for: Alexander Vlahos or Domhnall Gleeson

I actually like Kris Marshall in Death in Paradise. Reckon he COULD make a good Medic, depending on how he plays it... The Bumbling One that is always underestimated was done by 2nd med, but put a new spin on it and it could work. Who ever it is will always divide people anyway, It will all depend on how strong the stories are whether they get away with it.

They might surprise us all and put a relative unknown in there...

They might surprise us all and put a relative unknown in there... It wouldn't be the first time. Neither Tom nor Matt were very well known when they was cast so it's not like there isn't a precedent.

Breaking news
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-07-14/peter-capaldis-doctor-who-replacement-to-be-revealed-on-sundaypersonally I was hoping they'd keep it under wraps until the actual episode.

I agree. Shame they can't do a "River" on it.

personally I was hoping they'd keep it under wraps until the actual episode.

I was hoping the same thing. And I assumed they were keeping it quiet because the person playing the Medic would be a woman this time, which would be quite the surprise. This does seem to be the longest period between the current Medic saying he'd leave and the announcement of the next one (not including the "Wilderness Years"), so I figured this time it wasn't just another day at the office.

if the beeb don't do it, someone will msnage to take a pic and post it. nothing stays secret nowadays... :(

and Jawa...now is the time to post as much as you can :)

Well, I am disappointed that, with all the Silurians that have popped up during Moffat's reign, we've seen no sign of The Myrka!

There was an attempt to make it more fearful in the novel Scales of Injustice. If I'd been drinking milk when I read the description in the novel I would have snorted it out my nose.

Yes I am also known as Robot D84.

I knew it! You never see those two together at the same time, I said!

---------- Post added at 07:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 AM ----------


personally I was hoping they'd keep it under wraps until the actual episode.

I can't wait to find out! I love spoilers - I can't wait to know everything & tell everyone. It must be really annoying.

---------- Post added at 07:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------


There was an attempt to make it more fearful in the novel Scales of Injustice. If I'd been drinking milk when I read the description in the novel I would have snorted it out my nose.

Ew, I haven't read that.

I knew it! You never see those two together at the same time, I said!

---------- Post added at 07:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 AM ----------



It's a bit difficult getting into both suits at the same time...

I quite like Scales I think. I don't remember much about reading it. Oh, and we have seen the Rutans in Moffat's era, in one of those "interactive episodes" in 2011.

I quite like Scales I think. I don't remember much about reading it. Oh, and we have seen the Rutans in Moffat's era, in one of those "interactive episodes" in 2011.


Interactive episodes?

I've just looked that up and Lo! Something I've not yet seen!
Thank you.

Thankfully there seem to be a few vids on yutube of an ep or two.

Is there any way to watch/play these still?
I don't know that I would have access to RedButton (where they initially "aired").

Thanks for any info.

Interactive episodes?

They're actually a series of video games that were originally released free on the BBC website. Only available on Steam now.

I predict that within 15 minutes of the new Medic reveal every Who fansite, forum, facebook page, youtube blog, and twitter feed will be bombarded with posts from fans either praising the choice or up in arms against it. It's going to be an interesting day either way.

ITS A WOMAN!!!! think I will cry now!

ITS A WOMAN!!!! think I will cry now!

Meh. give it a season. She could be really good.

The ratings will tell how well she is received.

I'm waiting for all the newpaper headlines..

Medic Phooarr!!! etc... Best I could think of..

Anyone?????

I will watch, of course, and see how it plays out, however I have mixed feelings about this totally. I don't care that Moffat introduced to the series that Time Lords could change gender, HE added that and it was NEVER there before. Some Future show runner could always retcon that, much in the way that Terrance Dicks undid so much of what he saw wrong with the TV movie in the very first spin off novel, the Eight Doctors. I just feel the Doctor should be male. If the need and desire for a female time lord is so great, create a new one, bring back Romana or Susan and regenerate them into someone young and hip, give them their own show, But I feel the core character has been and should be male.
Sorry if that offends anyone, its just my opinion and I know one shared by many others, but not all. We are all entitled to our opinions.

I'm very excited both as a person of the female persuasion and because of the numerous storytelling opportunities this opens up. Plus JW is a fantastic performer.

From The Doctor Falls:
The Master: Is the future gonna be all girl?
The Doctor: We can only hope.

Uhh! Just thought of the obvious one. but won't post it due to being derogatory..

Oh and thanks to all who are helping :)

Really disappointed in the announcement. They used that rubbish stock pic of the ruddy TARDIS we've been looking at since 2005!!!!

Oh and yeah nice casting, she looks the part! All my worries about attempting to replicated the RTD era are dead and gone.

The reactions on my twitter feed are re-affirming my faith in humanity.

Admittedly I used to believe that the Doctor's gender was fundamental to his being a role-model for me growing up, but when I became an adult I realised that was nonsense cos I had lots of female role models too. Hope she gets good writers now!

And I never realised post-match tennis analysis could be so excruciating to sit through

And I never realised post-match tennis analysis could be so excruciating to sit through

My wife was like "how much longer?" We only watched it for the Medic reveal... So can totally agree with you...

My wife was like "how much longer?" We only watched it for the Medic reveal... So can totally agree with you...

I just waited for my phone to explode, which it did, watch it on youtube, and STILL managed to get the first comment in!
One thing I will say, despite my own misgivings about the gender switch, I DONT agree with some of the hatred and vile comments spewing out on various social media platforms! - We all have to at least give the new crew a chance and actually watch the damn thing! If we don't like it, don't watch anymore, It really is that simple, but at least give it a chance!

I'm one that will watch it before comment. It's going to be a bit weird as we are used to 50 years of being a man. But times change.

I've seen some filthy awful vitriol so far, but a lot of good stuff too. Levine is having a fit, which is pretty wonderful.

"I want to tell the fans not to be scared by my gender. Because this is a really exciting time, and Doctor Who represents everything that’s exciting about change. The fans have lived through so many changes, and this is only a new, different one, not a fearful one."

That's fair-play, I suppose.

Perhaps. Time Will Tell..... It always does...

It's going to be different. But that's what the show always is. Bring it on.

Well Georgina Moffet has to come back now, just to say "Hello Mum".

Well Georgina Moffet has to come back now, just to say "Hello Mum".

Isn't she pregnant? ;)

I've seen some filthy awful vitriol so far, but a lot of good stuff too. Levine is having a fit, which is pretty wonderful.

I oppose a female Doctor. I oppose Levine. Now I have to really think about which of the two I oppose more.

I've seen some filthy awful vitriol so far, but a lot of good stuff too. Levine is having a fit, which is pretty wonderful.

sad how closed minded some people are...........shes a great actor :) :)

I am totally 120% onboard with JW as the Medic. That reveal trailer for me was love at first sight. I've spent today on YT catching up on what she's done prior, and I like what I'm seeing.


Really disappointed in the announcement. They used that rubbish stock pic of the ruddy TARDIS we've been looking at since 2005!!!!

I was gonna say, did that St. John badge fall/rust off again?? LOL

I think they've made a big mistake and it's going to cost them. From the comments I've been reading the Beeb has just managed to alienate a large portion of the Medic fan base with this choice. It may all be just words and have no effect on the series 11 numbers, we'll have to wait and see. I personally am not happy they bowed to PC pressure and made Medic a woman, but I will reserve final judgement until I actually see what she's got.

They didn't bow to any PC pressure. Jodie Whittaker is right for the role, and they've been blind auditioning since Capaldi. Besides the point, surely its time for little girls to dream of being the Doctor, too?

They didn't bow to any PC pressure. Jodie Whittaker is right for the role, and they've been blind auditioning since Capaldi. Besides the point, surely its time for little girls to dream of being the Doctor, too?

well said........its not PC pressure...............its modern thinking when it comes to casting decisions

I suppose the logical step will be a male companion, now.

Genuinely excited by the casting.
The show has always been about change and I can't wait for the new series now.
This could give the show a whole new twist while still keeping the fundamentals.

And pleased to see such a mostly positive response here too

well said........its not PC pressure...............its modern thinking when it comes to casting decisionsSince I'm obviously in the minority here about how the new casting is viewed we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. What really surprises me is that it seems to be more women who are against the casting choice than men...and they get a lot more nasty about it as well.

Well, my wife's not one of them. She's cool with the idea, and no, she's not one of those people who just watch the show because her significant other does. She was watching it long before I met her. My female friends on- and offline who watch the show are also onboard with Witty Jodaker.

Wow, I was actually right about the next Medic being a woman. The period between the current one saying that he's leaving and today's announcement was unusually long, so I had a feeling something would be different.

Personally, I don't care what the Medic's gender or race is. All I ask is that whoever is playing the character does a good job.

With the announcement of the new Doctor let us now turn our attention to the gender of her greatest enemy, Missy/Master cause you know that's not the last of the character. if she regenerates will it be into a woman again and if so will she retain the name Missy or change it to Tressa or if a man become The Master again? Who will be the new Master/Mistress? I think Charles Dance (Bleak House,Game of Thrones & And Then there Were None) would make a great Master or probably a great male Rani if or when they bring back that character. What do you guys think?

I see no immediate need to bring The Master back, at all. A more pressing question is who will play the new companion.

Sorry to change the subject but I've a question about The Companion Chronicles, First Doctor Volume 2, if anyone who's heard it could oblige

What was the deal with the audio glitches? I understand they were deliberately inserted as part of some sort of story arc but I don't get it. Are they the bits the Time Lords were 'fixing' in the bit after the special features on the last story? Or are they meant to suggest that the first 3 stories were being performed on the 'mental stage' from the fourth story or something?

Well... I'm not exactly thrilled with the Medic being a woman.
NOT because of a female actor - I'm sure since she was cast, it must mean she's got "it" and she'll do a great job!

No, I'm just not in agreement for giving women/girls/lgbtq people hand-me-down characters (and altering the "history" of the character) to accommodate the change.
I firmly believe that NEW characters / mythos should be created.
In the case of the Medic, regen R0mana or Susan or something!
(But the chances of their getting a spin-off series would be slim-to-none, I guess. ;-/ A shame.)

Having a female medic is something that was first thrown into the public consciousness by Bom Taker when it was his time to leave the BlueBox.
But being Bom Taker, it could be that he was being "audacious".

I KNOW that there are people who think that it's a good idea to recast women as other characters; JANE BOND, etc... but it just seems a bit forced.

This thinking is nothing new.
Comics have done it for decades.
"Hey! Let's make Batman and Superman women!"
Welll not exactly that. But they did make female versions of those characters. And while it was initially seen as simply capitalizing on the alternate gender of something popular, that turned around in public perception as being a poor hand-me-down of taking a popular character and placing "-girl" or "woman" behind the name. [or in the case of the Hulk - a "She-" before it.)


NOW, those "She-" versions are seen as slightly derogatory hand-outs.
Women wanted their OWN characters (as they rightly should).

SO, what has Marvel (specifically) done?
"Legacy" characters, wherein they took an existing character and either re-cast the role as a woman or just gave her the title (Captain Marvel) or minority OR made an alternate version (Miles Morales Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, etc...).
Some are more popular/successful than others.
The Spider- alternates (Miles & Gwen) are hits!
The rest don't pull in the readers, even though social movements on twitter were happy - they didn't stick around to actually read the books.
They moved onto the next agenda.

I simply hope that this decision works.
I am truly interested in knowing that those who championed such a change WILL stick around to actually watch!
I would hate for those same dropped sales figures that Marvel is struggling to overcome would follow the Medic.

Before I go; my wife (who watches and likes the show - but I brought her into it) and my older sister (who was the one who let ME know that NuMedic was a thing in 2005 - and she has been a devoted fan since) are both of the mind-set that this is a bad decision.
They weren't filled with venom or bad words about it.
Just that they aren't for such a thing.

The decision is made. The die is cast.
MY opinion means nothing, and I know it.
I TRULY want it to work.

My 2cents.

I suppose the logical step will be a male companion, now.

well....why? the medic has had male and female companions in the past, why should a female medic have only a male companion?

i'd love to see an androgynous character...leave everyone guessing as to their gender...

I kinda feel sorry for the new girl. I wonder if she knew what she was in for when she accepted the part. She has a very steep and slippery hill to climb. Not only does she have to prove that a woman can and does deserve to play this iconic role, but she has to try to win over all the naysayers who doubt that Who can work with a female Medic as the lead. Plus she has to weather the storm of hate from those who will refuse to accept her in the role even if she proves them wrong. It's an unenviable task she has ahead of her.

Ones things certain, all the right wing extremists in fandom have come out of the closet. Bizarre how they lack the imagination to see women as anything but narrow gender roles.

On a sadder note ... RIP Martin Landau :(

Trevor Baxter's just passed away. Bugger!

RIP George Romero

Truly sad to hear about Trevor Baxter. Jago & Litefoot is probably one of the best spin-offs BF has done and after this long I really hope they don't try to recast the part - it just wouldn't be the same. :(

Were they working on any Jago & Litefoot at the time?
just curious

Were they working on any Jago & Litefoot at the time?
just curious

Nothing on the website about future releases.

I see no immediate need to bring The Master back, at all. A more pressing question is who will play the new companion.

Yes, I'm wondering what way they'll go.

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

How sad about all the deaths, and in such a short space of time. Though they all had a pretty good life lived. I agree about Jago & Litefoot - one of the really good spin-offs. I'm glad that they got to do a fair number of them, and that Trevor got to see the success of them. He'll be much missed.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

And, what a coincidence, with Martin Landau dying I just happened to borrow Ed Wood from my library, the movie he won his Oscar from.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but BF have just confirmed that Trevor Baxter has died.

The loss of Trevor Baxter is shattering to Who fans. I would hope that the BBC would overlook their current push to show how socially relevant they are with a female Doctor and honor the passing of this great Actor.

They won't though..


J&L is one of the few ranges I have purchased religiously. It is the one spin-off BF has always maintained steadily -- I don't know where they can go from here. From last listen, it seems they MIGHT have one more series to put out? But that will be the end of their adventures.

The loss of Trevor Baxter is shattering to Who fans. I would hope that the BBC would overlook their current push to show how socially relevant they are with a female Doctor and honor the passing of this great Actor.

They won't though..


RIP Trevor Baxter. Kimekaro is spot on, I've enjoyed [and always looked forward to] new adventures from the victorian dynamic duo.


J&L is one of the few ranges I have purchased religiously. It is the one spin-off BF has always maintained steadily -- I don't know where they can go from here. From last listen, it seems they MIGHT have one more series to put out? But that will be the end of their adventures.

I think if J&L is to continue in some form, the format is obvious - Jago and Betterman!
Trevor has been ill since they started the damn thing, and thankfully he lived as long as he did and left the legacy that we have. Not just Litefoot, but his whole body of work that consists of television, film, theatre and radio!
I think if they do carry on, I think Warner is the perfect choice and already an established character in the universe.

I do wonder now if the lack of news from BF about a new J&L producer resulted from inside knowledge of Baxter's health. I do love the idea of bringing in the great David Warner. It worked in The Scarifyers, after all.

What a loss, losing half of a double act is always a little more heart rendering for some reason. And a shame we never got a proper Paternoster Gang crossover.

Trevor Baxter's just passed away. Bugger!


Ouch! that's painful. We've lost a medic icon. :( Rest In Peace Professor

---------- Post added at 01:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------


Were they working on any Jago & Litefoot at the time?
just curious

From LC site. " the last volume to be recorded was released just this year. "

The loss of Trevor Baxter is shattering to Who fans. I would hope that the BBC would overlook their current push to show how socially relevant they are with a female Doctor and honor the passing of this great Actor.

They won't though..
Yep, because that's exactly why the BBC won't be running a Trevor Baxter season. *rolls eyes*

If you're upset about his death then using it to get a dig in about the latest Doctor is a funny way of showing it

Yep, because that's exactly why the BBC won't be running a Trevor Baxter season. *rolls eyes*

If you're upset about his death then using it to get a dig in about the latest Doctor is a funny way of showing it

lets let the ire about a female Doctor drop for a while shall we! today has been a day of great loss to cult fans... Martin Landau, George Romero and our very own Litefoot, Trevor Baxter. THAT is what matters today!
The fact some people love the aspect of a female Doctor, some people Hate it, some people are open minded and some are unsure is NOT relevant today! lets keep the "OH MY VIEW IS RIGHT" BS for another day... because ALL of us, no matter what our views and opinions are right, as far as we are personally concerned! lets leave that for another day and light a candle and or raise a glass to the memories of the ones that have given us so much pleasure and happiness over the years!

raise a glass to the memories of the ones that have given us so much pleasure and happiness over the years!

Glass raised and a tear shed.

An icon of Horror, a well loved character actor who has worked in nearly every genre of film and television (Juliet must be devastated), and an LC mainstay. 2017 is already racking up quite the kill list. Trying to out do 2016 are we?

I'd like to think that BF will give the prof a better send off than the beeb gave to The Brigadier - something along the lines that Bafflegab gave to Lionheart would be fitting.

Give him a decent send off...

apparently the 10th medics daughter is getting her own box set, LC has not addressed the rumor but radio times has announced it