@FrDougal9000: If you want to make pieces like that, I think the best way to do it is to copy them as close as possible first before finding your own style. Here's when reading music can really come in handy: If score sheets are available you can first transcribe the piece and then compare it to what's actually written. Repeat that process a few times and you will have internalized what makes such a piece work. It's one of the reasons any orchestral composer should listen to the classical repertoire, if only for the fact that for the universally agreed upon masterpieces of orchestral music, there's full score sheets available. A DAW with decent orchestral samples (real dynamics and advanced articulations) comes recommended because this way you can test various orchestral color combinations, get a feeling for the (virtual) instruments, learn how the music you make is written on the players score sheets (some instruments are played an octave higher than written). Generally a quick overview of music theory vocabulary is also essential I think, just so that you know certain technical terms you will need if you want convincing music. Just my 2c




@Tazermonkey: Yeah I hope the upcoming Nintendo shows and movies don't turn out to be fan wanks and try to be something more. But no matter how they turn out, I fear that regardless, there is the possibility of no soundtracks for them because Nintendo (the ones responsible for the music distribution at least) are dicks.


I say this because of what they did to Pok�mon:

Now that it's over, Pok�mon XY(&Z) turned out to be a phenomenal score after all. Miyazaki's best to date. Yes, better than Victini. Pokemon never sounded better. But no soundtrack in sight despite the need.


The Best Pokemon Theme! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_0HIXGE2nQ#t=14m33s)

Fanfare time! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTmNh5iS3Yw#t=02m19.5s)

A little waltz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWI7Do_jOCc#t=12m16s)

A lovely classical piece (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_0HIXGE2nQ#t=11m34s)

Victory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1q169KAF68&index=8&list=PLen1ayEXgXiRuDufF00z8kgBXrQjSkwqX)


I could have piled up DOZENS of such examples over the course of the series 100 episodes. I would say there's at least an hour of classical score and over two hours of great Hollywood fanfare, a brilliant showcase of traditional film scoring.
He has to work really hard to top this with Sun&Moon. BUT how criminal that the movie scores, which are not even a fraction as good, (and stuff like vocal cd) get released but no soundtrack for the series aka "the true pokemon music". I think the soundtrack collections every now and then just don't cut it for this one. They would need six cds for every noteworthy minute of the past few years.
I guess a proper soundtrack with all the music recorded for the series is too much to ask, even though it would print money by the brand alone. Then again, Nintendo is involved so that explains the stupidity of no soundtrack.

TLDR: Pok�mon never sounded better than with XY and as usual Nintendo ruins the fun for everyone by not releasing a proper soundtrack.






And to my surprise if you though Drifters to be Hellsing successor, it turns out that Keijo is the better Matsuo score of the two (I also think Keijo is a far better show than Drifters at this point). Sure Drifters has Warsaw, but Keijo plays it completely unexpected and goes to places I never even wished for. There's one or two pieces that remind me of Sahashi in his prime, THAT lovely 80s synth, and the orchestral action so far is at least on the level of Majestic Prince. A soundtrack needs to happen asap! On the other hand Drifters shows signs of worry with two pieces of horrible outdated synth. We have yet to hear the opera piece to turn my opinion around but it's getting worrysome.

Holy shit, those parts you've share are amazing! I do hope for the next year we see more score albums of Pok�mon. Loads of gorgeous music that needs to be released!

Though I need to correct you, "A little waltz" and a "lovely classical piece" are actually from the Movie 15 Pikachu short, Meloetta's song, and I think it wasn't composed by Miyazaki, Akifumi Tada I think? I dunno.

I think, however that his latest MOVIE scores were lacking, at least 19 was kinda dissapointing to me, as he went and reused themes from the 15th movie again (also did in the 18th and made me think that Keldeo and the Swordmen were gonna appear..

Also, Nintendo is not in charge of releasing the score music of the Pok�mon anime, but Shokagukan/Media Factory and Sony Music. And I'm pretty sure they're gonna release music next year, I think they've waited this long to have loads of music to showcase.

Now that it's over, Pok�mon XY(&Z) turned out to be a phenomenal score after all. Miyazaki's best to date. Yes, better than Victini. Pokemon never sounded better. But no soundtrack in sight despite the need.
XY&Z soundtrack will come in time. The anime finishes airing next week. Nintendo isn't in charge of any of the Pokemon music. In fact, the Pokemon series isn't even managed by Nintendo. It's run by The Pokemon Company, a company which is owned by Game Freak, Nintendo, and Creatures. They aren't 100% Nintendo, so that's why they can get away with doing things that Nintendo would never do (like releasing soundtracks).

It's pretty obvious they don't like doing standalone releases of every gen anime, so they just wait until a celebration happens (like the 15th and 20th anniversary) to then throw a huge massive compilation for all of us.

Prove of it was the volumes 1 and 2 released in 2010 and 2011, but I do hope we get more than one volume though. I don't think just one more is enough for BW and XYZ!

I've enjoyed the rare shares in this thread for so many years that it's time to give back.

Sheldon Mirowitz's EVOLUTION is a great orchestral documentary score, gorgeous, intimate at times and always creative. This was a rare promo put out in 2001; if someone wants to own a copy I found one going on Ebay for $49.95 in Australian dollars. If you can afford it it's worth it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Evolution-20...-/120587624044

That Ebay listing is also where you can find the best artwork online for it, sadly only 300x300. If I had a scanner I would upload better but I don't, sorry. But it's the music which is important, and that I am providing in freshly-ripped Apple lossless (easy to convert to FLAC if you want with a free program like XLD). The music is all correctly tagged, with a few tracks co-written by other composers labeled so, but with Mirowitz as the "album artist" so that those don't show up as a separate album in iTunes. This promo is so rare that even soundtrackcollector.com doesn't have a tracklisting, though at least they have an entry for this, which also has an alternate 300x300 scan of the cover

http://soundtrackcollector.com/title/47305/Evolution

If they are correct, this is one of four Mirowitz albums out there, and is the only one that I have in my collection (Google his website though and you will find more lovely sound clips from a wide variety of projects). That is a shame because he is really a wonderful composer with a distinctive style who knows his way around the orchestral. If you like documentary scores, you need to download this and give it a listen. I think my favorite theme is Annie's Theme in tracks 3 & 4. Give it a listen and if you don't like those two gorgeous tracks you might not need to bother with listening any further! Enjoy, feel free to say thanks and leave rep (with your forum name so I know who), but more importantly, I'd be interested to hear what you think of the actual music!

https://www.sendspace.com/file/2kyvaa

I am inclined to agree... a big proportion of the "good" Pokemon tracks turn out to be NOT by Miyazaki - usually it's Akifumi Tada, with some notable recent inroads by Junichi Masuda.

I hope the Pokemon series music gets a release, too. There's some truly glorious stuff in there and as Vinphonic says, even in this era of soundtrack market stagnation, would print money like there's no tomorrow. All this stuff is already recorded. Why not throw it on a CD and make some extra money?

Keijo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!1111111111112 does go places I wasn't expecting it to, but I don't think you could say it's superior music to Drifters. Drifters is one of those big fuck-off Warsaw scores that only comes round every few years, and it's for a largely serious show. It's an orchestral score in the great tradition of orchestral scores. We don't know how much there's going to be (my guess would be a round 30 minutes of Warsaw with some other crap throw in for filler) but we do know from what we've heard so far that it's a highly ambitious score and it's Matsuo at his best. Episode 3 easily has the best music of his career and some of the best music heard in anime, EVER.

Keijo, by comparison, is full of "Haha, I can't believe music like this is in this shitty show!" which skews our perception somewhat; it's bloody good fun, and I'm astonished there are live musicians there AT ALL let alone the good-sized domestic ensemble there is... but you could play a carefully curated selection of Drifters at the Proms, call it "Hayato Matsuo - Symphony No. 1" and it wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Not so with Keijo.

The next surprising thing about Keijo, for me, is that it's taking itself so seriously. This show is pure fanservice - to the point where it is getting conspicious even by fanservice standards. Nobody watching it gives a shit about the music. Where did Hayato Matsuo come from? How did he wind up with a real orchestra for THIS piece of crap but not for The World God Only Knows and JoJo? And how is he getting away with writing complex, brassy orchestral action pieces for scenes of girls wearing swimsuits trying to knock each other out by flinging their breasts and buttocks in their opponents' faces?

Despite all that, better than Drifters? Not in a million years.

EDIT: Watch Episode 5 of Stray Dogs. RIGHT NOW. It's out in RAW. Forget the subtitles. Forward to 13:06... and you might need to sit down for this! :D

Anyone interested in the 2016 Hollywood in Vienna, it is now on youtube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z0M9ICASfs. The first half is music from sci-fi films, some concert versions, not all entirely successful, but the second half is devoted to Alexandre Desplat and has themes and suites from many of his works, the highlight being the suite from The Grand Budapest Hotel, which is suitably bonkers.

Hollywood in Vienna is always a pleasure to watch so thanks for the link. It's also interesting in showing a composer's personality to be honest. On the one hand you have kind souls like Silvestri, James Newton Howard and Desplat, all humble in being there and remarking the musical legacy of the old masters and reminding everyone that they are just walking in the footsteps of giants... and then James Horner comes along and only makes ego-trip statements and comes across as an arrogant self-centered... I know, I know, don't speak ill of the dead and all, but what the hell?!

Horner - rest his soul - was well-known for being outspoken and frequently rude. He was trying to be Bernard Herrmann, but didn't have the talent to get away with it. You can see it all over every interview he ever did. (Before somebody jumps down my throat, I am *not* saying Horner wasn't talented; he WAS - immensely talented. There was simply a big disparity between the talent he thought he had, and the talent he actually had. Herrmann made a career out of being a miserable, arrogant c*** - and getting away with it because nobody - not even his biggest enemies - could dispute his genius. Nobody said you had to like Herrmann or his music, but it was pretty difficult to disrespect his ability. In the 50s and 60s, even a "go f**k yourself" from Herrmann was a badge of honour.

Horner... a great loss, both as a human being and as a film composer... but definitely a man who believed he was better than he was...

To answer an earlier question; what do I think makes good orchestral music... A complex question with a big, big answer - all of what follows is my opinion and shouldn't be taken as any more, or any less, than simply that.

Point one is that a piece of music which has an orchestra physically present and playing things doesn't necessarily quality as orchestral music. I firstly address the concept of orchestration; we are talking about the symphony orchestra - arguably the greatest musical instrument ever devised, capable of a expressing a stupefying range of tone colours, dynamics, and feelings. It is an ensemble that has stood the test of time, and been under constant refinement and development for hundreds of years. It is the medium through which the greatest musical storytellers of our species have chosen to articulate themselves. Having an orchestra before you is completely meaningless if you don't know how to wield it, just as a helicopter is useless if you don't know how to fly it.

To properly write orchestral music, you have to understand the orchestra, its instrument families, the instruments themselves, their capabilities, and how they interact with each other. Imagine that "orchestral" is a language; if you want to make a convincing statement in that language, fluency and clarity of expression is of paramount importance. If you don't speak "orchestral" or you have a very limited understanding of the language, attempts at expression will fail in anything but the most simple, un-nuanced statements. It is an enigmatic paradox of a language; to learn to speak it skilfully is insanely difficult, and yet we are all born with the ability to understand it when spoken by others, and our mind unconsciously appreciates it when it is spoken well.

Point two concerns the composition - to continue the helicopter analogy, concerns the journey. A helicopter can still be useless - even if you know how to fly it - if you don't know anywhere interesting to fly to. For your helicopter to truly serve its purpose to its fullest ability, in addition to the raw ability to make it take off, fly, and land, you must have knowledge of where you intend to fly it and how to get there - and that destination needs to be one which is appropriate to visit by helicopter.

Form matters to me. Music isn't just noise that happens and then stops. If I am reading the heating instructions off the back of a can of baked beans, I do not expect or require a literary masterpiece. If I am going to the corner shop to buy a pint of milk, I do not expect or require a helicopter. For orchestral music to function at a level above, for me, it needs to exhibit thought behind its construction. Music transcends barriers and speaks emotional truth. Musical eloquence, and an emotional point well made, has a great effect. There has to be a point, and it has to be well made. Otherwise it's not worth the effort in making the utterance in the first place, and it's not worth the effort of your audience to listen to it.

Following on from what Vinphonic said... your music is your truth. You need to make a point, and you need to make it well, but of possibly greater importance you need to make your point in your language. If you're not going to express a unique thought, or express a common thought in a unique way, your expression is pointless. What you have to say needs to be worth hearing. This is one of the reasons I am so drawn to Japanese composers; even within confines of the medium for which they write, they speak with their own voice. Some of them perhaps don't have anything worth saying, but a unique voice is worth hearing on its own merits - I think hearing a mediocre story told to you in a unique way is more important than hearing the best story in the world repeated a thousand times in the same words. I hate Hiroyuki Sawano with a passion, for example, but at least his music is his music - from that perspective, it interests me more than, say, John Debney who, in continuing the helicopter analogy once more, knows everything there is to know about helicopters and their history, but only travels the same ten mile round trip every single day, and will only fly a route which has been taken by dozens before him. (As an aside, hearing a familiar story told in a familiar way is worthwhile if it's a good story and it's told well - but hearing a bad story told badly is not going to interest anyone.)

In summary... orchestral music isn't just about having an orchestra. It's about speaking a language rich in history and culture - and an understanding that the better you speak that language, understand that history, and appreciate that culture... the better you will be able to express yourself in that language, and consequently the positive impact you have on the people you're talking to can be unimagineably higher. :)

:this:

As a rather young, highly amateur composer, I know next to none of the technicalities of music, but this has given me much food for thought. Thank you for the very knowledgeable, quite in-depth read, tango! :)


6. Expansion of Blockade (End of Evangelion, com. Shiro Sagisu) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLm-tu1ye1Y

And this! This is one of my favorite and one of the most beautiful one of Sagisu's compositions I think exists. 1:14 - 1:38 almost never fails to bring a tear to my eye or at the least give me chill all around. :laugh: Though the whole piece is just phenomenal.

Why.. why doesn't Nintendo or TPCI release a CD of this concert?! Beats me! It's wonderful music I wish I could hear in CD quality..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubV4ppUNXF8

Why.. why doesn't Nintendo or TPCI release a CD of this concert?! Beats me! It's wonderful music I wish I could hear in CD quality..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubV4ppUNXF8
I don't imagine they would release a CD while the concert is still touring.

Watch Episode 5 of Stray Dogs. RIGHT NOW. It's out in RAW. Forget the subtitles. Forward to 13:06... and you might need to sit down for this! :D You mean this?

http://puu.sh/s3n3X.mp4

This is something else. I haven't heard Iwasaki like this in years. I still find it very strange how he shifted the whole style of the show's music mid-season like this even after the flashback arc ended.

That's what I was getting at. That's a bloody big ensemble there... and you're right, we barely hear Iwasaki doing anything like that. All he seems to do these days is complain, insult the producers he works for, and write experimental electronica. Suddenly he's going "Oh, by the way, assholes... I'm also one of the best orchestrators out there!"

Of course there's not enough there for us to be able to definitively say that this is Iwasaki's orchestral comeback... but let's say the odds have just improved significantly. :D

In other news, is anybody following Yamashita's Puzzle & Dragons X? I have been scanning it every few episodes and the current one (18) makes me very happy. Yamashita is clearly stretching a meagre budget, here - but there is a real orchestra - a fairly modest-sized one, but Yamashita works them nice and hard - and some splendid score moments. The final eight minutes of the episode are carried by the score (to a much greater extent than we would have ever expected from this brightly-coloured cash-grab trash) and the episode culminates in a completely serious, tragic friendship cue that really sums up why I like Yamashita so much; his tendency to bring a touch of class in unexpected places. He never talks down to his audience or writes shitty music for a shitty show. This isn't his best score, not by a hundred miles - but he relentlessly searches for opportunities to add musical polish, as much as the budget and the show itself will allow. It's really worth listening to, and if a soundtrack album should ever materialise there will be ten or fifteen minutes of very solid orchestral score to enjoy. He works hard and it shows.

I have no idea at all why he is taking these crappy assignments (Nurse Witch Komugi? REALLY?!) nor how it ever comes about that he's offered them in the first place... and I wish he'd get a serious adventure, or a serious scifi, or a serious romance show with a good budget instead of all this kiddy rubbish... but it's gratifying to hear that he really does try, no matter how depressing the assignment. :)

Suddenly he's going "Oh, by the way, assholes... I'm also one of the best orchestrators out there!"I feel your enthusiasm, but isn't that going a wee bit too far?

Well Iwasaki is a special case because you cannot analyse him like every other media composer (not even Kanno). He is an artist first, a professional media composer second. That he can express himself so vividly year after year speaks volumes about the environment he works in.

One of the things that Iwasaki does maybe better than anyone else is the ability to write in ANY orchestral style or ANY musical genre and compose not only convincing but downright impressive music that can sit right alongside the very best. Not for nothing is his opera piece from JoJo so revered.

Perhaps I've added to the misconception about Iwasaki's recent style but I will say that I applaud his return to earlier days for one fact only: more substantial orchestral score. Everything else I don't miss about it. I will gladly listen to his earlier masterpieces like Kenshin but the man has been writing impressive MUSIC year after year this very decade. In fact it's the ambivalence of it all that is so fascinating. On the surface Akame ga Kill or Mahouka seem superficial modern RC trash with rehashed music from his past works but if you actually listen there's tons of personality with incredible music underneath. I would go so far as to say I enjoy his potpourri "art" albums much more than most of his earlier work (yes including electronica and dubstep -Burning Colosseum and Avalon are absolute bonkers-). Luckily, like Kanno, if you arrange a few tracks here and there you CAN put together a little orchestral album if you want ;)

We must all look at the facts: Iwasaki is a classical genius in disguise, showing the whole world that there's no excuse for modern (and eletronic) orchestral scores to sound so bland an asinine compared to what you can actually achieve within that sound world.
He can write opera like nobody's business and compose songs that can compete with Disney at their best moments (musically, not vocally) in any style, combinig Zimmeresque repertoire with electronic dubstep in a flull-fleshed operatic action piece. He goes from incredibly romantic Debussy to frentic Herrmann, to aggressive Hip-Hop in the blink of an eye. In recent years he also refined his orchestral skills, there's like night and day to his first phenomenal scores of Kenshin and his recent art albums in terms of technical skill.

You only have to REALLY take in his orchestral output:

A little Herrmann (http://picosong.com/HCBD)

Dark Morricone (http://picosong.com/HCZ9)

Just some shallow music (http://picosong.com/HCTZ)

Romance for Strings (http://picosong.com/HCtv)

What a Happy End! (http://picosong.com/HCZf)

The Noir is strong in this one (http://picosong.com/HCZ2)

Sound the temple blocks! (http://picosong.com/HCZV)

Hollywood Mystery (http://picosong.com/HCZB)

A little stroll in Fantasia (http://picosong.com/HCZd)

Opera Brawl (http://picosong.com/HCZE)

Cello Suite Op. 56 (http://picosong.com/HCxj)

Fall from Vertigo (http://picosong.com/HCxc)

Put this in Tim Burton, Elfman can retire now (http://picosong.com/HCx5)


Iwasaki IS a genius and incredible gifted at orchestration. Perhaps he is slowly moving away from his rebellious artist phase and is returning to the "professional" side of media scoring. Who knows, either way I'm always eager to listen to his music, no matter the subject.

I feel your enthusiasm, but isn't that going a wee bit too far?

I don't think so; even in this short piece, we get a glimpse of brass arrangements of the highest standard; concert hall level orchestrations. A cursory listen reveals some heavy-sounding chords... but listen again. The tone colour reveals somebody who thought carefully about how those chords were divided up amongst the brass instruments. They're not just chords, they're thoughtfully voiced and harmonically interesting.

When Iwasaki goes orchestral, it never feels like he's stretched beyond his comfort zone; it is obvious that he knows what he's doing with bells on.

How about Iwasaki's biggest orchestral affair to date - Gin'iro no Kami no Agito: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCXYcP9FvZ4

The brass writing here heavily suggests a brass band background; notice the "odd" combination of trumpet and flute playing the main melody in octaves at 0:12. The piece is also a waltz in 3/4 time - you'd be surprised how much anime music is in straight 4/4 time. Iwasaki wrote a waltz that barely sounds like a waltz and orchestrated it to a standard rarely heard in media music. The guy is infinitely more talented than we've ever heard from him.

Or Read Or Die - Theme of R.O.D - I Love Hong Kong Version... classic Bond, the epitomy of 60s cool, with an electronic twist and a pitch-perfect arrangement...

Or Theme of R.O.D - Heart's Road Home Version - pure romanticism, delicate brass, warm woodwind, and strings that sweep like they used to under Mantovani.

Or Binchou-tan... maybe the warmest and most geniune music ever heard in anime, a dreamy work for chamber orchestra and ondes martinot. Long, sleepy melodies that unfold with grace and beauty, and a score that on the coldest day you can play and feel like you're lying on the grass on a hot summer's day, dozing quietly in a field in the countryside.

Not another composer in anime has this range, and this ability to convince in such a diversity of styles.

I love Iwasaki in all his shades, from the silly to the sentimental, but if I had to pick a favorite orchestral work of his to date, it's a piece from the now forgotten 2005-06 anime series/City Hunter spinoff, Angel Heart This OST doesn't get a lot of discussion, which is a shame cuz in addition to being one of, IMO, his most well-rounded pre-Gurren Lagann scores from the mid-00's, nearly all the orchestral writing is Goooooojus.

The piece I love in particular is Within the Mirror I Dwell(my translation) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tq2cach4m0&index=6&list=PLD0E48E2DB6E3C890. At a healthy, expansive length of just under 6 minutes, it's a wonderful masterclass in delicate, tightly-controlled counterpoint and the art of wringing a lot of emotional mileage out of simple techniques and textures. The writing is largely a duet between strings and piano, and the back and forth between them is almost like a dialogue between two characters in different tangible emotional states; uncertain, staccato delicacy in the piano is responded to by the more ambiguous but hopeful, rich strings. The parts are strictly regimented at first, then start to flow together. The dialogue has been heard and understood, and the characters are reaching some level of understanding. Then the strings get darker, the darker cellos and bass swelling(or sinking, rather) to a fevered emotional pitch while the higher registers seem to splinter in desperation, as if even the more optimistic of the two is losing out to despair. The two parts just keep building and resolving like that, reaching slight triumphs and heartbreaking highs before a funny thing happens. A third character enters, the clarinet, and its floating recitation of the melody seems to steady the string and piano's tumultuous emotions, easing the tension and lifting the entire ensemble to a wonderfully emotive and brilliant peak.

I've rarely heard Iwasaki write anything of the sort since. The motivic development and mastery of the timbres used is astonishing, every note in its proper place. All of Angel Heart's main themes, hell, the man's themes in general are all magnificent, but this one takes my breath away every time. I almost never hear this score talked about, so I hope your day was brightened up a lil by being reminded of this stunning, criminally underrated piece.

Bloody hell, gorgeous! Thank you! More thoughts to follow shortly. :D

Don't get me wrong, I've never doubted Iwasaki's musical abilities. Out of all the composers out there, I find him the most interesting, the most willing to try new things. That's why I talk about him so much, with every other composer I kind of already know what to expect, whereas Iwasaki is like one of those surprise goody bags every time. I think the biggest problem with him is that we don't get to see enough of his "normal" music, but then again, most of the shows he composes for don't necessarily even need or deserve his style of orchestral music (case in point: Qualidea Code). But I have to wonder, why does he always work on action-comedy shows? Iwasaki can compose for literally anything- slice of life, grand adventures, character dramas, murder mysteries, etc, yet he usually always picks the same type anime to work on nowadays. His musical range is incomparable to anyone else, but the range of shows he works on is so narrow that it really clouds everyone's judgement of him because he doesn't get much opportunity to shine in those shows. For someone like Sawano or Kajiura, who have one definitive style that works best for a specific genre (bombastic action and gothic mystery), it's understandable, but Iwasaki is so much more than both of them. And since he complains so often about the anime he works on, I have to wonder if he's really the one who chooses what shows he works on, or if his producers are trying to typecast him to a certain type of show.

As for Iwasaki's underrated/forgotten works, my pick has to be the music he composed for Uncharted Waters Online. The ensemble is hilariously tiny, filled with synth instruments everywhere, but oh my, the music that Iwasaki makes for it is pure undiluted melodic goodness. It's Iwasaki in his most basic form, and one I wish we got to hear more of:

http://picosong.com/HPJg/
http://picosong.com/HPJB/
http://picosong.com/HPJM/

As for comparisons to Kanno, I think she makes consistently good music, but the sound of her music (other than her vocal collabs) is never really consistent. The symphonic styles of Escaflowne don't sound anything like those Turn A or Macross Frontier. Unlike Iwasaki there's no clear style. And also unlike him, you will never see her blend 5 different styles into a single piece. It really does feel like she has a lot of ghost writers maker her music for her.

I know you will all think I'm just disagreeing for the sheer hell of it... but to me, every note of Kanno's orchestral music clearly belongs to the same composer, and I find a very clear style binding them all together; even between Kanno's sojourns into other genres.

I will complain about Kanno for being a serial plagiarist with my final breath, but I cannot agree that there is no clear style in her music. Melodically, harmonically, developmentally, orchestrally, every note belongs. She has clearly moved on (early Nobunaga Kanno has a different feel to Macross Frontier Kanno) but they are all very clearly in Kanno's style.

As far as Iwasaki goes... well, he has to pay the electricity bill. It is, when all is said and done, a job; whilst I'm sure he has a choice as to what he works on, I'm equally sure that he agrees to work on crap sometimes because it pays. I wonder if it's also a case that in anime land, composers sign on so early in the production process that the show that looks like it could be really great when you got the gig turns out to be a piece of crap by the time the composition process begins, the recording session takes place, and the show is premiered.

The one golden rule about working, though... if you take a job, you waive your right to whine about the people you work for at least until the job is complete, and if you care at all about the image you project to potential future employers, you generally keep it buttoned indefinitely. Every time Iwasaki pulls this toys-out-of-the-pram "I'm completely wasted working on this shitty anime / I hate working in this style / The producers ass-fucked my score in the mix!" tantrum nonsense, he burns a bridge. Who wants to be director of an anime where a fairly senior member of your production team is tweeting about how shit you are at your job? That's professional suicide anywhere, but in Japan? I'm honestly surprised Iwasaki still works. You're stuck scoring a terrible show? Suck it up, write the music, take the money, say you were honoured to work on their production, and move on...

If I started tweeting about how crappy my company is, I'd lose my job. I'd also compromise my ability to get other jobs when asked why I left my previous employ: "Well, I said nasty stuff about them on Twitter while still receiving the salary, and they sacked me for being a two-faced hypocrite... So, can I start next Monday?"

As a matter of fact, I maintain good relations with ALL my previous employers - JUST IN CASE...

That's one of the things I love most about Kanno, tho if you listen close, there are bits and pieces of humor, wit, a talent for slightly ambiguous chord progressions or really sly and effective key changes that are characteristic across her work. Turn A sounds quite reminiscent of moments from Macross Plus, as well as Aquarion. Gochisousan was basically a more acoustic Napple Tale, albeit no less quirky. In my mind, I compare her to Iwasaki quite often in their variance and range(and if I'm being honest, Iwasaki's created more chaff by far.)

I'd forgotten how good Uncharted Waters was. Iwasaki's Cho Aniki tracks are a hoot.

Of course Kanno has made better stuff than Iwasaki- all the shows she's worked on have given her room for it. Every single show Kanno has worked on was made by the top dogs of the anime industry. Shinichiro Wantanabe, Shoji Kawamori, Yoshiyuki Tomino, etc. Bebop, Escaflowne, Macross Plus, Turn A Gundam, etc. These are some of the best anime ever made. There is more money, care, commitment, and skill into their production than any anime made today. Nothing Iwasaki got to work on (other than Gurren Lagann maybe) has reached the level of these shows. Most of the times the shows he works on have his music as their only somwhat redeeming factor (i.e. Mahouka, Ben-to, Qualidea Code). Other times people aren't even aware of the existence of the shows he's worked on! Binchou-tan for example. A score that puts pretty much almost every slice of life anime score to shame and would have probably been praised as a classic forever if it had Joe Hisaishi's name slapped on it for some Kiki's Delivery Service sequel. When it comes down to it, an anime or movie composer is judged not merely by the quality of the music they make, but the quality of the anime or movie they're making the music for and how it's used within that context. And unfortunately for Iwasaki, the majority of the shows he made music for are rubbish. And his music for that type of show ends up being mostly rubbish as well compared to something like Kenshin. Because what incentive is there for making good music for garbage like Mahouka? Iwasaki's name being even known at all is a testament to his skill in being able to go beyond the shows he works on. The fact that Kanno hasn't worked on a single anime since Terror in Resonance (another high profile show by Shinichiro Wantanabe) is very telling of how uncaring she (or her producers) is for the current anime being made because she doesn't want to tarnish her reputation working on crap.

Tango, you might be right about Iwasaki burning too many bridges being the cause of all this. Maybe he is just a very narcissistic genius who is hard to work with. But it doesn't make it any less irritating when hacks like Tatsuya Katou get more high-profile work than he does.

As for Kanno's supposed "style"- I don't agree at all. I don't care if she's supposedly a plagiarist. Ever since the dawn of temp tracks movie music has been stolen back and forth. What makes Kanno lacking however, is her lack of personal voice. I have rarely ever seen anyone define her "style" of music, because most of the time they focus on her pop/jazz/vocal works instead of her orchestration. If you were to take a piece from Turn A and put it side by side with something from John Williams, do you think a normal person could tell the difference in the style of composition? Even when Iwasaki takes wholesale pieces from others ("In Exchange For My Life" from Gatchaman being taken from Inception's "Time" for example) you can still tell it was made by him. Kanno doesn't have that level of cohesive sound to her music. In a blindfold test I can recognize Ooshima, Hirano, Uematsu, etc within less than 30 seconds of their pieces being played. I would have no idea if something was by Kanno unless someone told me. She's like a cold machine with a big shadow organization of other people behind her, and it's not surprising to me in the slightest that a good chunk of her work is arranging J-pop music.

Just to prove my point, here's another piece from Uncharted Waters Online. Who made this, Iwasaki or Kanno?

http://picosong.com/HPpr/

Iwasaki, easy. The string and brass leading sound very him. Kanno comes up a w a catchy hook immediately and then elaborates, even back in her KOEI days.

Iwasaki, easy. The string and brass leading sound very him. Kanno comes up a w a catchy hook immediately and then elaborates, even back in her KOEI days.

http://vgmdb.net/album/53327

You might want to look again. :)

I dunno that I believe that. Sure doesn't sound like her. Sounds like something from Kuroshitsuji, to the letter.

I've never taken the army of ghostwriters argument very seriously.

Believe what you want, but the fact is "Yoko Kanno" wrote that piece.

If you were to take a piece from Turn A and put it side by side with something from John Williams

No problem!

http://tindeck.com/listen/xdpop

http://tindeck.com/listen/iodcz

No problem!

http://tindeck.com/listen/xdpop

http://tindeck.com/listen/iodcz

That's exactly what I was talking about.

Kanno makes great music. There isn't a single person in the anime industry who can touch how perfect and spotless and consistently excellent her record is. But she's not a person.

http://vgmdb.net/album/53327

You might want to look again. :)

Sounds more to me Iwasaki's arrangement (which makes sense, since he appears as the orchestrator as well, weird how there's no arrangement credits) of Kanno's "Princess Chris" from the first Uncharted Waters (1990).

Just listen:

http://picosong.com/HP7Q/

(First 30 sec replay of "Venezia" and the other "Princess Chris" from Kanno)

^^^lol

I've never gotten the comparisons ppl make between Kanno and Williams either, and have never confused them(cept maybe in cases where she borrows from him haha). People call Hisaishi another Williams all the time and they sound nothing alike, either. He's like Miyazaki; any popular artist makes a name for themself in the same field, they're gonna get compared to Williams.

EDIT for pesky multiposting, but Imma just throw this in for the "wow this is some of the most gorgeous music I've ever freakin' heard, why does nobody talk about this soundtrack" pile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaOvH13zS-Q&index=35&list=PLC0932AF8C9E5B5D0

.

As for Kanno's supposed "style"- I don't agree at all. I don't care if she's supposedly a plagiarist. Ever since the dawn of temp tracks movie music has been stolen back and forth. What makes Kanno lacking however, is her lack of personal voice. I have rarely ever seen anyone define her "style" of music, because most of the time they focus on her pop/jazz/vocal works instead of her orchestration. If you were to take a piece from Turn A and put it side by side with something from John Williams, do you think a normal person could tell the difference in the style of composition? Even when Iwasaki takes wholesale pieces from others ("In Exchange For My Life" from Gatchaman being taken from Inception's "Time" for example) you can still tell it was made by him.



A lot of time I feel that has to do with the people the composer works with. Iwasaki works with roughly the same people on every project these days. Same string section, same brass etc. That's why it's easy for me to personally identify him immediately when if I'm ever watching something and I hear his traditional/brilliant orchestral stuff. But when he worked with the Warsaw for the first (and sadly only) time I didn't realize it was him till much later. It's pretty much the same with other composers too. With Sagisu as soon as you listen to a chorus line of people shouting random bullshit you know it's Sagisu. If you hear that generic horn sample you know it's Tatsuya Kato. Kanno on the other hand due to always being involved in high level projects gets to work with big scale orchestras all over the world which makes it hard for a music noob like me to pin point a style. Of course I don't really listen to all that much Kanno stuff so that's probably another reason.

Sounds more to me Iwasaki's arrangement (which makes sense, since he appears as the orchestrator as well, weird how there's no arrangement credits) of Kanno's "Princess Chris" from the first Uncharted Waters (1990).

Just listen:

http://picosong.com/HP7Q/

(First 30 sec replay of "Venezia" and the other "Princess Chris" from Kanno)Haha, fair enough. My point about Kanno still stands regardless and her vast library of inconsistency can speak for itself, but I don't want to get too deep into this argument because it's kind of like beating a dead horse.


A lot of time I feel that has to do with the people the composer works with. Iwasaki works with roughly the same people on every project these days. Same string section, same brass etc. That's why it's easy for me to personally identify him immediately when if I'm ever watching something and I hear his traditional/brilliant orchestral stuff. But when he worked with the Warsaw for the first (and sadly only) time I didn't realize it was him till much later. It's pretty much the same with other composers too. With Sagisu as soon as you listen to a chorus line of people shouting random bullshit you know it's Sagisu. If you hear that generic horn sample you know it's Tatsuya Kato. Kanno on the other hand due to always being involved in high level projects gets to work with big scale orchestras all over the world which makes it hard for a music noob like me to pin point a style. Of course I don't really listen to all that much Kanno stuff so that's probably another reason. I see your point but I don't agree. Look at any other big name orchestral composer like Ooshima or Sahashi and their music will have very distinct arrangements and quirks that define their style regardless of the size of the ensemble or where it's recorded at. Even with Origin, the music still sounds 100% like Iwasaki. I recognized his style the moment I first heard "Agito to Toola". Granted, the richness and size of the ensemble is something we're not really used to hearing from Iwasaki, but other factors like his usage of strings and horns are distinctly his style of orchestration.


EDIT for pesky multiposting, but Imma just throw this in for the "wow this is some of the most gorgeous music I've ever freakin' heard, why does nobody talk about this soundtrack" pile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaOvH13zS-Q&index=35&list=PLC0932AF8C9E5B5D0I've always loved this piece. The first 2 minutes are just dreamy and magical. It's actually quite different from the rest of the darker and moodier soundtrack.

As for why Williams and Hisaishi are compared, it's because of reputation, not style. Hisaishi is revered on the same level in Japan as Williams here in the west, if not even moreso. Same with Disney and Ghibli, despite the two being polar opposites in how they run themselves.

What I was comparing though was the technical and orchestral aspects of Kanno and Williams. And with Turn A, there's a very strong resemblance to his works.

If you were to take a piece from Turn A and put it side by side with something from John Williams, do you think a normal person could tell the difference in the style of composition?

No, not at all - but a "normal" person can't tell the difference between John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith, Basil Poledourus, or Miklos Rozsa. Average Joe will hear an orchestra and if it's in a movie they'll say John Williams, and if it's not they'll say Mozart or Beethoven. Musical style is sometimes very conspicuous, othertimes subtle or invisible to the untrained ear, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Yes, absolutely... the places where Kanno is explicitly ripping off John Williams sound like John Williams.

But Yoko Kanno still sounds, to me, like Yoko Kanno - always - and definitely has a personal voice, and a cohesive sound to her music. I can hear it. I will absolutely agree that Kanno is more chameleonic than others, but the Kanno vibe is always there.


Just to prove my point, here's another piece from Uncharted Waters Online. Who made this, Iwasaki or Kanno?

This is interesting - I would've put this down as Kanno all the way, and I would go as far as to say there is nothing at all in this piece that makes me think of Iwasaki.

As for this "Kanno is ghostwriters = fact" - with respect, it's not a fact. It's a suspicion shared by a significant number of people, created by a number of aspects of Kanno's career and music "not adding up" - Kanno apparently having no musical education to speak of and yet appearing out of nowhere with writing some of the best film music in history and recording it with a world-class symphony orchestra... Kanno's apparent "personality cult" where she has been transformed from a person into a brand. Kanno's completely unprecedented (she even has Horner beat) levels of plagiarism from a truly stupefying range of sources both classical and film music. There's absolutely enough inconsistencies and unanswered questions to warrant a healthy suspicion, but we don't have any facts and we are unlikely to ever get them.

If she IS ghostwriters, her accomplices are at the very least working to give music written under the Kanno brand a unified style.

It's possible she's a liar. It is also possible that she's simply a genius and a thief.


Tango, you might be right about Iwasaki burning too many bridges being the cause of all this. Maybe he is just a very narcissistic genius who is hard to work with. But it doesn't make it any less irritating when hacks like Tatsuya Katou get more high-profile work than he does.

Just a theory, of course... but I can't imagine it does him too much favours.

Absolutely agree as far as the Kato situation; Iwasaki's phoning-it-in wipes the floor with Kato's A-Game. Unfortunately, Kato is what producers like; consistent, reliable, and smiley. His music is (almost exclusively) utter crap but it never harms the show; it is pure underscore. He is the perfect cog in a large machine. It's simple and popular and it makes reasonable sales. He never complains, never attacks his employers in interviews, and can work on twenty different shows at once. When you don't really care about the music and just want someone to write something and stay out of your way, you get Kato.

On Hisaishi and Williams - absolutely agree, the point of comparison is prestige and respect, not style. Aside from the fact that both composers frequently use a symphony orchestra, they couldn't be further apart stylistically.

Since Kanno has been brought up, I definitely recommend reading this lengthy interview if you have the time: http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2014/11/yoko-kanno-interview

A rare glimpse into her upbringing, musical background, and how she approaches projects. It might give you some insight into why Kanno is such a multi-faceted composer.

The section where Kanno talks about when she was a child and fancied the pants off Jesus Christ, and hid in the closet singing hymns to herself is positively disturbing. ;)

Edit: And that interview is an utter disgrace, completely ignoring her orchestral output.

On the subject of Iwasaki and artists (like Kanno) that borrows from classical musicians:

S. Rachmaninoff. Symphony № 2. Movement 3
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3vaGByEfBM)

The section where Kanno talks about when she was a child and fancied the pants off Jesus Christ, and hid in the closet singing hymns to herself is positively disturbing. ;)

Edit: And that interview is an utter disgrace, completely ignoring her orchestral output.
It's one of the most in-depth interviews we have. Kanno has always been a pretty withdrawn. She has no social media, no website, rarely makes appearances and rarely gives interviews. There's a lot of ground to cover and Kanno is more well known for her pop/jazz than her orchestral works... so it's not surprising which questions made the cut. That said, I'm not sure any of her interviews really go into detail about her work as an orchestrator. It doesn't really get brought up and she seldom talks about it.

I think it's a good read because it paints an picture of the type of person she is. Also, I always find it interesting to read that she had no post-secondary musical education. One of those rare prodigies that was mostly self-taught.

I know we have to take what we are offered as far as Kanno is concerned, but it's still a disgrace that the interview should completely ignore her best work in favour of fluffy conversations about bus trips through New Orleans and how sexy and ripped she thought Jesus was. You don't interview Einstein and ask him questions about his haircut and his favourite brand of breakfast cereal - you ask him about string theory, relativity, and wormholes.

It leaves the same unanswered questions as before; namely how does someone who no musical education manage to suddenly appear and start composing and orchestrate so consistently well in ludicrously complex genres? Any idiot can learn to strum a few chords and play guitar in a crappy band with schoolmates. Any idiot can bum around America as a teenager, living the hipster lifestyle, living day to day, and listening to jazz. I want to know how that very same person can, barely into her thirties and with absolutely no prior experience or schooling of any kind, suddenly start writing symphonic music and produce orchestrations that compete with the likes of Rimsky-Korsakov and Richard Strauss. That's what I want to hear in an interview with Kanno. Instead, we get Kanno the dreamer, Kanno the free spirit. I want to know about Kanno the classical music theory encyclopedia, Kanno the skilled orchestrator.

Still a good read of its own, but instead of producing something genuinely interesting and probing, it just reinforces the Kanno brand.

Did anyone guess the mystery piece? You're telling me Kanno listens to more John Williams than any of us?

Into the Monster Symphony - Kuniaki Haishima (Arr. Sachiko Miyano & Tadashi Yatabe)

(http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=23104543&showlnk=0)

Download (https://www.mediafire.com/?k0qoe9o840jfgos)

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any discussion here in regards to the western-like thriller mystery score that is the 2004 anime, Monster. The only other mention I've ever seen from Haishima's work is from Vinphonic's ultimate post of "The Music Of Japanese Entertainment (Thread 57893 ent#post3171514)", for the ending track of "Metroid: The Other M Credits", which is a shame, because there's alot to like about his best work to date.

Unease would be my best word to describe Monster, both in a positive and negative light. Suspenseful and yet, calm string sections, frenzy brass tones and even boy choir. The music as you can hear is mostly in a western format (and by that I mean to expect some "by the numbers" danger cues). If there's one thing that really bothered me during the making of this, it was the awful inconsistency of the mixing that I noticed: very but very loud on some and on others it feels like they needed to twist that volume channel just a little more, didn't tweak anything so you can know what I'm talking about.

As usual, I picked the best that could match to make a coherent and narrative hearing experience just for the awareness and better impressions of this score. If you'd like the full version, you can get it here (https://bakabt.me/torrent/143819/monster-music-collection-mp3). I also recommend if you'd ever have the time to give a watch on the series, it's a breath of fresh air and it's almost hard at times to give it the category of "anime" because on how departed it is from the average content that you'd expect in anime, with such human characters. Enjoy!

Did anyone guess the mystery piece? You're telling me Kanno listens to more John Williams than any of us?

To my shame, I didn't guess it... but it IS driving me crazy... Would you be so kind? :D

Also, I'd be fascinated to hear your thoughts on the "Kanno's orchestral music has no individual style" discussion - opinion is mixed. I hear a very clear unifying style running through every note of Kanno's music - others don't at all. What say you?

My first guess was ET because of the "sound" but that wasn't it, then I thought "Journey to the Island" because of similar motion and almost the same moment in "Harry's Wondrous World" but the recording sounds older than his 90s work. I definitely have heared it before but I can't pinpoint it at the moment. I admit defeat for now (but I'm not a walking encyclopedia of Williams like Kanno so it's cool :D)


@tango: When I listen to Nobunaga there's definitely a couple of moments that I would attribute to Kanno's trademark. All the way up to Aquarion there's similar moments so I would say she definetely has a voice, although not as pronounced as others. It comes mostly in the form of modulations and harmonic voicings so its a bit harder to notice. It also doesn't help that many moments are taken from either classical or Hollywood work.



@pensquawk: Thank you very much for the suite. I agree that Haishima is pretty obscure. It also doesn't help that some of his music, like the cinematic cutscene score of Other M, is unreleased. I think he was born to score an alien movie or at least a horror project. Monster kinda fits so thats where his strengths shine. But not much opportunity in recent years. The only substantial budget horror projects go to Takanashi and Kawai :(

I also agree about the series... I really love the silly side of the medium with all its craziness (like Girls und Panzer, Gunbuster, Nichijou, Giant Robo, Baccano, Redline, Gurren Lagann, Monogatari, Katanagatari, Yamato 2199, Bahamut or Lupin III) but I think anime resonates with me the most when it really steps out of expectations... Monster, Jin-Roh, the Kenshin OVAs, Princess and the Pilot, Tutu, Ghost in the Shell, Sakamichi, Fantastic Children, Space Brothers, King of Thorn, Texhnolyze, Planetes, Paranoia Agent, Casshern Sins, Banner of the Stars, LotgH etc. I would definitely categorize them as more "adult-oriented" if you will. Then again, sometimes you just want some mindless fun with sparkling colors and sugar for your heart... and most of the time it comes with good music as a bonus. Like with Iwasaki's music I revel in the ambivalence of it all ;)



Speaking of anime, unless my ears work wrong, the damn fools have actually rerecorded the seven minute crescent moon dance for a full-fleshed animated concert performance with no interruptions (the timbres sound different).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVhh6SsyLNA

Can you actually imagine a remake of Nodame Cantabile with this level of quality :D I bet there's one or two manga or novels about an upcoming or working symphony orchestra, so I hope in the future we can have a successor to Nodame.

To my shame, I didn't guess it... but it IS driving me crazy... Would you be so kind? :D
How about a hint? It's not from a movie. Yeah, that's right. Kanno listens to western television soundtracks. She loves them.

Amazing Stories?

Yep, it's from an episode of Amazing Stories called The Mission, which I believe was available on a 1999 Varese release, so Kanno would have likely heard it there. Fun fact: the thematic content in the Mission is similar to Goldsmith's The Blue Max in that it simply an upward scale in that pesky Lydian mode you hear in almost every Hollywood score ever written.

Michael Giacchino scores Spider-Man Homecoming.Perfect choice.already said that last year when the movie was announced.dr.strange is pretty cool.

Hearing that Giacchino has signed on to something is like being sentenced to death and then your lawyer comes up to you, pumping his fists in the air with glee, crying "Good news! No more electric chair! We got your sentence reduced to 10,000 lashes with a whip made of Asian hornets and bot flies!

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

Aah, Amazing Stories! :D

I don't suppose anybody would be able / willing to connect me with the three "Anthology" sets from Intrada, in lossless, please? I have them in MP3 but I have never really paid them much attention until now and I am loving them... :D

Tango, my friend, I see you're really passionate with your opinions, aren't you? I feel you :laugh:

Well, you know, I'd hate to be misunderstood. ;)

I'm gonna be VERY pissed if the game's final score isn't recorded live orchestrated in Prague as was suggested, and funded. Grant Kirhope's music is wonderful, and Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolt's score in Praga was fantastic to hear.

Friday Night is Music Night:
Happy Birthday Maestro Carl!

Heather Shipp and Richard Suart, vocalists
BBC Concert Orchestra
conducted by Carl Davis



Password-protected link - the password is my username, exactly as written: https://itsssl.com/5eTnT

Introduction from the BBC in the spoiler:

Friday Night is Music Night celebrates the 80th birthday of conductor and composer Carl Davis.

New Yorker Carl Davis made the UK his home in 1961. One of his first jobs in the music business was as MD on the 60s satirical TV show That Was the Week That Was. He also wrote the theme to the BBC weekly drama - Play for Today. Since then he has been one of our foremost composers in television and films. His tv themes include Pride and Prejudice, Cranford, Goodnight Mister Tom, The Snow Goose and the World at War. His film scores include Champions and The French Lieutenant's Woman - for which he won a BAFTA in 1981 and he worked with director Mike Leigh on his retelling of the lives of Gilbert and Sullivan in Topsy Turvy. Carl is also known for his tireless work creating scores for silent movies including Abel Gance's epic Napoleon.

In this special Friday Night is Music Night the BBC Concert Orchestra pays tribute to 80 years of musical life and the programme includes the first broadcast of Carl's latest work - the soundtrack to a new Raymond Briggs film - Ethel and Ernest.

Ken Bruce is on hand to light the birthday candles along with singing guests Heather Shipp and Richard Suart, as we say Happy Birthday Maestro Carl!

During the interval Ken Bruce talks to Carl Davis about his music and his career.

Concert recorded on 15th September at the Hackney Empire, London.

Everybody knows Carl Davis; on September 15th this year BBC Radio 2 honoured his 80th birthday with this splendid concert, in which he conducted by the BBC Concert Orchestra. The concert is an even split between music from Davis himself, spanning his entire career to date, and a selection of popular film and classical pieces.

Davis even makes an appearance as a vocalist, actually singing a whole song with Shipp. Ten thousand points for being such a good sport... though even his biggest fan has to admit that, perhaps, he should stick to composition and conducting... ;)

I just love "Friday Night Is Music Night" - it's such a shamelessly old-fashioned show, which has run continuously since 1953 and not changed its format, brief, or even theme music ever since. The music which introduces the interval feature is just glorious... it almost allows you to forget that we life in the 21st century and the whole world is going to hell.

Carl's accent these days is fascinating; just like the man himself, simultaneously British and American at the same time.

Sourced from 320kbps AAC transmission, edited and re-encoded to FLAC for distribution.

Please note that BBC Radio 2 is a mainstream popular station which broadcasts with a fair bit of dynamics compression... also, it is not recorded by the BBC's classical music department, and is mixed live on the night, so the sound is very close-miked and sometimes a bit rough and ready - such is life.

Cool! Downloading now. Big thanks.

Bloody hell, that was fast! No worries! :)

Wow, not heard this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymm8ZGCKw7Y

Wow, not heard this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymm8ZGCKw7Y
First Knight?

streich: Neither have I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14N9kd_c-B4 ;)



Many thanks Tango for the Davis Concert, just to let everyone know he also did a rerecording of his famous Naploeon score with 2 hours of score, it's available in the shrine.

Symphonic Poem "The Heroic Legend of ARSLAN"
The Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Taro Iwashiro



Download: https://mega.nz/#!hI12mLaL!Uh4nyaPmfLOYP_BLWPINV4k2966KJHiX9wP0lbQGirk

Wow, not heard this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymm8ZGCKw7Y

Jesus Christ...


streich: Neither have I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14N9kd_c-B4

...With bells on.

Also...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvHHSmtwdTA

I haven't heard this level of plagiarism outside of Japan. "A New Dawn" in particular... we're not talking about a bar or two here and there... it's literally the WHOLE CUE, from start to finish - orchestration, melody, harmonies, key, EVERYTHING. Just shocking.

Also shocking that this kind of music made it into that piece of crap Hercules... but still...

Bearing in mind time and budgetary constraints, plus the fact the fellow was very busy during the 90s, juggling two, sometimes three, 24 50min. length episodes a year…well, I'm prepared to cut the fellow a lot of slack, particularly since this sort of thing doesn't carry over into his feature work. Besides, it's not like he's done a horrible job of cribbing other composer's material.

Budget has no impact on quality of composition. I know he was a busy guy, and obviously it's very good music (I have to admit, I like the Krull knockoff better than I like Krull) but the thievery is still beyond the pale...

First Knight?

The Omen, I would think...

HAha, this is fun...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2inmlraMdr0 Demolition Man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeaJ33aZfrc Conan!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tUOMt6RVaA Star Trek?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTwhRHBrhDU Aliens?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L42ZuRZbg9s Aliens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBL3hO5SfEw More Aliens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v6VMiyCJmY Dracula!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDLsPmi-IvA I think this is Goldenthal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruXhTXrkZ5w Robin Hood!

It'll take a while to catch all the references, because there are many more that I'm hearing but can't place.

I won't deny that for those of us who know their back catalogue the borrowed material can be somewhat distracting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tUOMt6RVaA Star Trek?

Clash Of The Titans + The Hunt For Red October + Robocop


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTwhRHBrhDU Aliens?

Definitely Aliens plus something else I can't place... :O


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeaJ33aZfrc Conan!

And Robocop again...

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------


...the borrowed material...

Is this an objection to my use of the term "thievery"? I know the traditional definition of theft (theft removes the original, piracy makes a copy) but I do think it's appropriate to use the term "stealing" here when we consider that this score is, possibly like no other in the history of Western film music - a virtual encyclopedia of film music through the 80s and that LoDuca, whatever his reasons for doing so, wilfully appropriated the music of others (taking advantage of their prior effort so he has to expend less) and happily took the pay cheque.

It's all fantastic stuff, and I know LoDuca can do better - and I'm sure there are a thousand reasons for why this happened (temp-track-itus being a leading suspicion) but the fact is that it happened.

Not too familiar with Robocop and Hunt for Red October beyond their main themes, unfortunately. But if someone ever decides to plagiarize Cherry 2000, I'll be all over that!

Now you well know that if it was actual thievery Renaissance Pictures would have been sued into the ground. So no. Nor stealing because technically the respective studios own the music rights and not the respective composers, so the point about the term thievery also applies to a term such as a stealing as well.

However, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this:

For you streich: https://vimeo.com/18812447

Looks like Akira Miyagawa is doing Yamato 2202 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-09-05/space-battleship-yamato-2202-7-part-theatrical-anime-project-premieres-on-february-25/.106122

youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeaJ33aZfrc) [Joseph LoDuca - The Circle of Fire]
Conan!


And Robocop again....

And bits of the 'Main Title' cue from Robocop 3.

Excerpts:
kiwi6 (http://kiwi6.com/file/j9a68jffxg) �Poledouris - Main Title (Robocop 3, 1993 Movie)�
kiwi6 (http://kiwi6.com/file/j617gq2bh7) �LoDuca - Circle of Fire (Hercules: Circle of Fire, 1994 TV Movie)�

Now you well know that if it was actual thievery Renaissance Pictures would have been sued into the ground. So no. Nor stealing because technically the respective studios own the music rights and not the respective composers, so the point about the term thievery also applies to a term such as a stealing as well.

You know that I have the utmost respect for you, but I'm afraid I must acknowledge this as nit-picking.

A crime is not defined by whether or not it is uncovered by its victims, or what level of punishment is eventually received by the perpetrators, if any. A crime is still a crime, even if it is never discovered by anyone and if the perpetrators walk away scot-free.

The specifics of which entity of individual owns the material that was stolen, nor who was ultimately responsible for the stealing... doesn't matter. (Should we blame the matches? Should we blame the fire? Or the doctors who allowed him to expire? Heck no, BLAME CANADA!)

The work of A has been appropriated without permission or acknowledgement and re-attributed to B, for which B was offered (and voluntarily received) financial reward.

There are plenty of examples of similar or comparatively insignificant examples of this kind of theft that HAVE resulted in people or companies getting sued. A lawsuit costs time and money and effort, and whether or not it is brought in the first place heavily depends on whether the right people notice that the theft has taken place and they consider the potential benefits of winning a court case to outweigh the initial outlay involved in mounting that case in the first place. We can presume that the people who own the rights to the plagiarised music were either never notified that the plagiarism took place, they didn't care, they never passed that information to their lawyers, or that they did but the lawyers considered it pointless to go after a TV show which infringed their rights on 10-15 year-old movie scores. Would the market for selling Basil Poledouris and James Horner CDs suffer adversely as a result of similar-sounding music turning up in Hercules? How much money and time would be sunk on the case?


Looks like Akira Miyagawa is doing Yamato 2202 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ary-25/.106122

Well, that's the worst news from Japan I've heard in quite a long time.

Well, that's the worst news from Japan I've heard in quite a long time.
I tried to find a source for that claim that Yamashita was in charge. Turns out it was never posted by any official source, only blogs. I guess Yamato music will continue to be stuck on the path of recycled themes.

I wonder how Miyagawa feels about not getting to do something wholly original. I can't imagine he's happy that his father's shadow, over 10 years later, still continues to loom over him.

The law is nothing if not the province of nitpickers. Which is why a crime is only a crime if recognized under some governing statute. But even given such statutes, if respective parties fail or are disinclined to pursue legal recourse for alleged infringement of intellectual property then, for all intents and purposes, no actual crime has been committed under statutory law.



.

Party 1: OJ is guilty; guilty I tell you!

Party 2: Why?

Party 1: Because…
But no one's supposed to go to jail for just looking guilty (or guilty for not being white!).

Who knows, maybe Renaissance Pictures did at some time get a knock-knock on the door from an aggrieved party or parties and were compelled to sign some broad licensing agreement. If so, then as far as The Law would be concerned, LoDuca's borrowing would be beyond imputation.

Of course, more detailed knowledge of multi-party agreements governing intellectual property, specifically as regards reuse of creative works, vis-a-vis New Zealand and the United States (or Great Britain) at the time might inform this debate. Perhaps during that time New Zealand was not signatory to any agreement(s) with the United States (or Great Britain) covering reuse (related: Tsunami Records in Germany), and without the required legal framework there would be no legal action to pursue.

Ya, ya…LoDuca's borrowing was quite blatant during his Hercules and Xena runs. And yes, it can be as source of umbrage to the high-minded. But no one is supposed to go to jail for having given umbrage to the high-minded (and particularly those who think themselves high-minded) either (except, of course, in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, China, etc., etc., etc.).

Would accreditations listed on commercial releases containing appropriated music be respectful to the original artists? Perhaps. But, again, with no pressing legal requirement, there's no incentive to pay any additional costs involved.

I don't disagree with you as regards the technicalities - which are fascinating to examine from an intellectual perspective - but between the two of us we know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that plagiarism has taken place so can we not simple refer to it as such, instead of moving into philosophical, metaphysical thought experiments, a-la "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" ;)

Whilst morality and changing attitudes can be argued all day long, surely it is possible to agree that making money out of somebody else's work whilst pretending it's yours is, in fact, inherently a bad thing - regardless of whether the act was technically legal at the time it was committed, the status of legal co-operative agreements between nations, and God-knows what other kind of semantics?

Accreditations after the event are largely pointless; admitting something once you've been caught as a form of damage control... is a solution of sorts, but the best one, I feel, would simply be to not plagiarise, steal, borrow, or appropriate music in the first place.

:)

Not sure if this was covered here or not, but here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OucOgFNHuUs) is a sneak peak of the music we can expect from Valkyria: Azure Revolution. Can't wait!

Bearing in mind that LoDuca never would have got rich off those Var�se releases anyway, if he even saw a cut at all.

Would our once favourite punching bag James Horner have been held in higher esteem in certain circles if he openly acknowledged his borrowings (of others and his own self), rather than obfuscating the issue with, and I'm paraphrasing here, "there's no new music to be written"?

****

To add:

Holy moly! It's been just over 20 years since Hercules and Xena premiered, and it's been about a decade since I last saw any number of episode from either and I'm wondering: would any of you muckrackers here be able to file incident reports on his borrowing over the course of Hercules' 5 seasons and Xena's 6?

I'd be curious to see if he abused the back catalogue most during the first couple seasons, and whether or not there was a gradual (or dramatic) drop-off in his borrowing as the series progressed. Or, if he managed to maintain a high batting average throughout.

I'm fairly sure he didn't get rich from it, but I'm willing to bet it was a well-paid gig all the same...

I love that Horner quote. RIP, James, but he sure was an arrogant SOB...

I don't have Xena, but I do have all the Hercules albums so I think I'll go through them to see if his blatant plagiarism does indeed get better or worse. ;)

Edit: My highly unscientific skimming the orchestral cues from Hercules yields the following: The plagiarism drops off after the first volume but is still present. I find subsequent albums to be nowhere as interesting musically as the first. Hmm...

Edit again: "Someone Else's Shoes" on Volume 4 is a masterpiece.

In regards to the recent Iwasaki discussion, I was a bit encouraged to speed up a compilation I planned after the release of Stray Dogs 2 and Qualidea 2. But since I got the impression Iwasaki is almost among everyone’s favorite list here’s my little attempt in categorizing Iwasaki’s large body of work.



The Legacy of Japanese Composer
Taku Iwasaki



Taku Iwasaki is after Tanaka the second most prominent „Anime Composer”, perhaps to even more extremes than the original. His career has pretty much been anime-only and it seems to stay that way for years to come. He started as a song arranger for anime and now has become a distinctive and revered voice in the anime scoring world and is one of the few old warriors left (he’s almost 50 now), waving the flag for opera and Broadway song in media scoring. His music is as diverse as music can be. You get everything from 1920s galore and Italian opera to Zimmerian action and electronic dubstep. But if there's an area where he is pretty much the king of media composers now, it's in the romantic impressionism departement. His genius comes in the form of a mask with two faces: “The Composer” and “The Artist”. During the last decade he did mostly wear the mask of the artist while his earlier years were pretty much that of a traditional media composer. But recently he lets his old self emerge from time-to-time. “The Composer” can be divided into two phases: One more classically oriented and one on the side of Zimmer and RC. Iwasaki appears more confident and sincere in his talent for orchestral writing in the classical phase, often paying homage to the classical repertoire and the Golden Age of Hollywood. But Iwasaki is also very much a fan of Zimmer (mostly his early stuff). What I find ironic is that while Iwasaki pays homage to the style, he also puts the original inspiration to shame. It all comes down to the simple fact that Iwasaki lives and breathes with a classical mind (grounded on classical education) and Zimmer does not or at least never demonstrates it. I divided his “Artist” side by two Phases: The first one I call Rapera, his most recent one Dubera. It’s born out of his adoration for Rap, Dubstep and Opera. What characterizes both is at least one standout cue in every album, mostly an operatic piece or orchestral song among much electronics, rap or dubstep. In some cases the orchestral score is even build around this one piece, like Jojo with L’anima or Qualidea Code with Canary. Lets just say he wrote some true gems as Iwasaki “the artist”.


The Composer

I. The Classical Phase


Download (https://mega.nz/#!l45EEBTa!4GdvffmuwugI86FKHkU7vUH52C-5bsZk9_TwBDBUDxU)

Agito was the only time in his career working with a worldclass symphony orchestra and I would say he succeeded with flying colors in adapting his orchestral style for a symphonic ensemble. Some additional parts are done by a studio ensemble.

With Binchou-tan he again demonstrated the same kind of ingenuity with a chamber ensemble, delivering a unique and incredible heartwarming score. It’s as soothing as it is jolly with moments straight out of a ballet or romantic symphony.

In Black Butler Iwasaki lets his inner maestro loose, delivering hours of opera, marches, waltz, requiem and concerto. All in a quite sinister tone that would fit a Tim Burton movie like a glove.

Despite of having a bit Zimmerian action there’s A LOT of Herrmannesque beauty in Kataganagatri, a rather substantial amount of score with a nine minute concert piece and perhaps his most awesome song, “Peacock blue eyes”. A worthy successor of Kenshin with some unique instrumentation choices like Wood/Templeblocks. His “Gettouka” triumphs over similar efforts, like Kawai’s Ghost in the Shell for example.

Akame ga Kill is a modern action score done right, with unique use of epic choir and e-guitar. The action is definitely inspired by Dark Knight Rises. There’s a genius moment in “Formidable Enemy” that starts like a modern Blockbuster track but at the end evolves into a majestic SciFi moment. In the later half we have some absolutely sublime moments with some of the best orchestral pieces of Iwasaki’s career. I must also give him credit for actually getting me a little teary with ethnic vocals.

As of now there’s not much to justify Stray Dogs in this category BUT I put it on there in knowledge of things to come.


II. The Zimmerian Phase


Download (https://mega.nz/#!A8QEXarY!vWvuDc58MnvjHmK9CPCE17V1pxWGFILknOi9mknSJRA)

His first major debut was with Rurouni Kenshin, and to this day one of his best works I would argue. It has beautiful romantic melodies crossed with early Zimmer style and a remarkable tragic tone. The second OVA in particular nails the tragic beauty aspect perfectly, with “Heart of the Sunrise” being one of my favorite Iwasaki pieces.

Uncharted Waters: Online is a potpourri of various musical styles and instruments. Iwasaki certainly nails the “period and place impressions” and gives us a hint just how good a traditional adventure score from him would sound like with “Battle Offense” and “Event: Delight”.

Oban Star Racers is basically a more refined Zimmer action score with some sublime Silver Age Hollywood moments. A terrible shame the unreleased music of the show will never see the light of day.

One of his most beautiful scores from this phase is Angel Heart, a beautiful noir score with Zimmerian action, but more importantly, dreamy sax pieces like they don’t make them no more and incredible romantic interplay of strings and piano.

Yakitate!! Japan is yet another potpourri, you have Backdraft and famous Band work from the 80s mixed with Golden Twenties galore and romantic symphony. Iwasaki is again showing his immense range and talent and even giving us a full-fleshed concert piece with “Japan, the World I create”.

We go into the glorious 60s spy movie territory with Read or Die. It’s basically what would happen if Zimmer and Serra scored 60s Bond and then some. The TV version is of course the main course, full of delicious Jazz and synthesizers galore. 009-1 is pretty much an encore of R.O.D and very much in the same vain.

Black Cat marked the beginning of his upcoming operatic trademark and orchestral song and very much functions as a transitional work were he slowly switched sides. Kekkaishi is another transitional work, but much more traditional. Many of his upcoming trademarks appear like the filtered trumpet, temple blocks and vocal effects. Bu there’s still a substantial amount of beautiful strings and woods.

Hakaima Sadamitsu is a much earlier work and perhaps his most unique one, going full spaghetti western. It will not be the last time he evokes Morricone.


The Artist

III. The Rapera Phase


Download (https://mega.nz/#!xkxBGIpY!Ag5VX6trLpBhH0gKdVkt3KBepP73ha80G2GPQtXyfbQ)

Starting with his famous artist debut: Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. The usual romantic and jazzy Iwasaki is there, but we also have a pretty rap and electronic focus aspect. The action is no longer 100% Zimmerian and slowly becoming its own thing. It also has much stronger thematic consistency than usual, not to mention his first pioneer work in mixing orchestra & opera with rap.

Soul Eater continues the trend with a healthy dose experimental electronics and a little rap, but at its core has wonderful string and piano pieces, an insanely cute Disney song and a full-fleshed opera piece.

Persona: Trinity Soul is very much in the same territory with opera and rap, but has many callbacks to his earlier works like Angel Heart and beautiful song and piano tracks. Unfortunately not every track is real, a chunk of it is synth.

For C I prepared a special package: I divided the meat of JoJo and Jormungand to “C”, since I believe Iwasaki has some sort of continuity between these three scores, at least judging by the track titles and tone, while the dubstep and electronic orchestral pieces went to Gatchaman (I find it a perfect fit). C (The compilation) is not only a conglomeration but also culmination of Iwasaki’s current style. Beautiful orchestral song straight out of 1920 pared with modern RC action, various flavors of Jazz, impressionist concert work and glorious Italian Opera.

Noragami Aragoto is basically an arthouse score for some experimental film with some great string action, much more traditional than usual. A beautiful piano and flute piece is followed by a mini-concerto for flute before drifting into Hitchcock territory with one of the most incredible pieces of Iwasaki’s career.

God’s Notebook (Kamisama no Memou-choui) has electronics but is quite quaint compared to later works and much more gentle with beautiful song, some incredible noir pieces and the usual dose of romantic strings and piano. A beautiful breeze of fresh-air before the rather heavy albums are about to hit your ears.


IV. The Dubera Phase


Download (https://mega.nz/#!8d9kiZJC!HWjX3ayVzL7ZNOuJ8lIa0pGWipJF8j94JP7bZ83t-HI)

Mahoka (The irregular at Magic High school) is more focused on the electronics with some experimental wackiness. Nonetheless this is Iwasaki we’re talking about so even the RC action has meat under it and switches from dubstep to a Holst-like rhythm in a matter of seconds. Speaking of Holst, an electronic dance track starting with a Jupiter-esque intro… oh Iwasaki-san. For the traditionalist there’s of course beautiful song, romantic piano and strings and the best variation of a “The End” moment Iwasaki has written.

The heart of QUALIDEA CODE is the beautiful “Good night, Canary” with many thematic variations in the score. It also shows Iwasaki’s consistent effort to refine the modern Hollywood action style and his use of electronics. There’s actually quite a chunk of score missing so final judgement is on hold until OST 2. But I very much like what I hear so far, especially stuff like “Agnus Dei”.

No matter its actual merits, Gatchaman Crowds is one of the most unique orchestral scores I’ve ever heard. To my knowledge it’s the only time so far that a composer seriously tried to incorporate electronics and dubstep in a “serious” composition (if you take Jojo’s dubstep as a part of it), mixing these elements with opera and modern action. The results are not for everyone’s ears I’m sure, but I find it fascinating. He really is a pioneer in this field. But apart from that there is something to love in Gatchaman, from the beautiful French song to the usual romantic strings. It’s also the first time he uses Vocaloid.


Finally, as a bonus, things come full circle with one of his earlier works, Now and Then, Here and There, which doesn't exactly move me but it has some good moments and is quite loved by many.

Almost every album is heavily edited because of the nature of his work. Most are given the film score album treatment because that’s what I prefer. With all that said, please enjoy. Should anyone have problems with the files again, don't worry. I have backups ready.



Composer Profile: Taku Iwasaki



Trademark: Eccentric Genius, Man of a thousand styles, Zimmerian

Education: Tōkyō Geijutsu Daigaku

Most popular work: TTGL, Kenshin, Katanagatari

Inspiration & Style: Romantic Impressionism, Golden Age, Remote Control

Similar Western Composer: Hans Zimmer, Bernard Herrmann

Wonderful compilation, Vinphonic! I think your description of Iwasaki is very fitting. I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said before about him, especially with all the recent discussion, but I consider Iwasaki to be the most interesting composer working in the medium of anime or hell even film score right now. You can clearly see the evolution of his style over time, yet he somehow always remains unpredictable. His recent jump back to almost full traditional orchestra on Stray Dogs is a fine example of that. Even the worst score that I think he's ever written, Ben-To, is still very interesting to hear his ideas, and even moreso how he would incorporate them into his later works. I just wish he had better shows to work on, or better yet, branch out of anime composing into something like live action or video games.

It's interesting how much you mention Zimmer's influence had on Iwasaki. I think it's very strange that despite being so classically oriented in his education, he would lean towards someone like Zimmer. Not that it's bad at all, but it is surprising.

There were a few (rather obscure) things that were left out from the compilation though. First off being Iwasaki's debut to making scores, Cho Aniki in 1992. I can't say I'm a fan of it (or early 90s game music in general), but even as far as back then you could still hear some traces of his style. Then there's the main themes he wrote for Romeo's Blue Skies in 1995, and all the variations of that theme for the show's soundtrack. Admittedly, the music was arranged by both Iwasaki and the main composer, Kei Wakakusa, so it's not 100% him but the music itself and its melody were wonderful. I daresay Iwasaki's contribution to that show overshadowed even that of Wakakusa with his main theme.

Iwasaki also rearranged a good chunk of Chloro Club's melodies into orchestral version for the Yokohama Shopping Log OVA in 2003. The music itself seems to have planted the seeds for Binchou-tan later on. Even though they technically weren't his melodies, Iwasaki's arrangements of them made the music sound 100% like him, and gave birth to what I consider one of the most beautiful pieces he's ever made:

http://picosong.com/HgtT/

He also composed the very relaxing main theme for that show, Fuwa Fura.

Also worth mentioning, Iwasaki's work on Muv-Luv Alternative. Most of the music is very synthy, as expected from a Visual Novel soundtrack, but it really marks the beginning of the bombastic and dramatic style of action music he would later refine for Gurren Lagann:

http://picosong.com/Hgze/

I have very high hopes for his new soundtrack for Stray Dogs right now. Iwasaki has a tendency to release something that I would consider a "landmark work" every three years. Like with Gurren Lagann in 2007, Katanagatari in 2010, and Gatchaman Crowds in 2013. And now in 2016, Stray Dogs looks like it may be it.

Boi. The problem is that he never gets a full soundtrack like Soul Eater and GetBackers like WTF?!
I would kill for all of GetBackers, and Akame ga Kill! was the first one that made me really know who he was.
Also I have been reading this for a few months so I just wanted to say something.

I'm fairly sure he didn't get rich from it, but I'm willing to bet it was a well-paid gig all the same...

I love that Horner quote. RIP, James, but he sure was an arrogant SOB...

I don't have Xena, but I do have all the Hercules albums so I think I'll go through them to see if his blatant plagiarism does indeed get better or worse. ;)

Edit: My highly unscientific skimming the orchestral cues from Hercules yields the following: The plagiarism drops off after the first volume but is still present. I find subsequent albums to be nowhere as interesting musically as the first. Hmm...

Edit again: "Someone Else's Shoes" on Volume 4 is a masterpiece.


the plagiarism is also in xena, but there is MUCH more interesting music there.i think the best parts are all on the final 2cd.the episode with the war in heaven, the ring cycle and the final showdown with the demon in japan.

The more episodes of Yuri!!! on Ice (Ep 6) that had appeared, has made me more inclined to agree on certain statements here, as to these young composers being able to "succeed" Yoko Kanno (more in terms of convincing variety of music and orchestration, than plain imitating imho). That being said, that slow waltz in strings at 8:45 is something you'd definitely hear from her, something like this (http://picosong.com/HuX9/) comes to mind. Also...listen at 14:00 ;)

But as any artist, it'd be distasteful for me to go on and on with the "OMG GUYZ, WE HAVE OUR NEXT YOKO KANUUUU!!1" agenda, instead of giving him the proper praise he deserves for making music this great. Hope he gets to craft his own voice in the near future, loving what's been brought so far.

I'd like to have the opportunity to thank nextday, tango and Vinphonic for their recent shares

@nextday: You know, maybe it was the fact that Taro Iwashiro's music for Arslan Senki was meant to be played by a bigger orchestra, because the original TV score felt kinda dry and meh, but here, I could actually appreciate it alot more on what was he going for here, I'm really digging it! Thanks!

Edit: Hearing the original TV score, apparently, it's more on the fact that it was better arranged (was it the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra again here?), the symphonic poem format made me like it alot more.

@tangotreats: Could always use more of these old-fashioned BBC live plays, makes my neverending research of artists alot easier quite frankly :)

@Vinphonic: I've got every Iwasaki score, but I'd just like to say: how much I love all these well thought out descriptions from all of you, truly, one of the many reasons I keep coming back (mostly on this thread) here.

Today... Classic FM... 18:00 (Germany)... Turrican 2: The Orchestral Album: Preview... don't miss it. It's now performed by a Scandinavian Symphony Orchestra instead of Prague if I recall correctly.

Classic FM in which country? I can try to capture the stream if I could find it... ;)

Just now saw your post Tango, don't worry, I have it recorded if you couldn't find it. The site where I got the news from forgot to announce that its British time, not German time, so luckily I could catch the stream.

Turrican II: The Orchestral Album Preview "Freedom" (arr. Roger Wanamo) (http://picosong.com/HJgX)


A bit more info: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chris-huelsbeck/turrican-ii-live-orchestra-album-by-chris-huelsbec/posts/1732114

Oh, was it our Classic FM? I would've recorded that off FM...

Thank you very much for the rip, though! Really appreciated! Recorded in Sweden, eh? That's new...

why didn�t i know of this? anyway....ORDERED! freakin love turrican, wether its orchestral or the synth/rock original versions.

A nextday / Vinphonic Co-Production

Hirofumi Kurita conducts the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra
Lux Straight & Beauty Presents “Hatsune Miku Symphony”
Tokyo International Forum Hall A



Download (https://anon.click/zunin71)
FLAC / 17 Tracks / 90min

Album, tags and composer credits provided by nextday. More detailed information on VGMdb (http://vgmdb.net/album/62587).
The concert was held on the 26nd of August, 2016. All of the orchestral music is from Hatsune Miku games by company SEGA.

Official Promotional Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gThlC2JYAOk)

Another case of "most unlikely thing to get a symphonic orchestral concert" in best Japanese fashion.
Overall I like it very much but be warned that there’s a lot of pieces with synthesized vocals and J-Pop vibe. If you can’t stand that there’s luckily a huge chunk of instrumental only and here I recommend the pieces arranged by Souhei Kano and Takahiro Tsuji in particular. Kano for example employs some advanced woodwind techniques that are a breeze of fresh air from the standard pop arrangement. But Takahiro Tsuji's symphonic pop medleys are quite something as well with hints of piano and violin concerto. Kayoko Naoe is for anyone loving Masakatsu Takagi's frentic orchestral music. It's a jolly album with bold marches, cute and heartwarming melodies and sometimes sublime concerto moments. I also LOVE the final encore piece "Melt", a romantic and uplifting finish. There's talks of another concert next year, and if they get everyone involved on board again, I'm more than happy to listent to the results next year as well.


Ladies and Gentlemen, please enjoy!









For the record I also think 2015 and 2016 will go down in history as the point when Japan begins the new age of symphonic music concerts and albums. I've done some research and JUST the amount of orchestral concerts, albums, symphonic suites and poems, opera and concert Jazz in the last two years is just unbelievable. Some is not even released in any shape or form. It's all made more astounding by the fact that it's not even the old guard doing it most of the time. The future for symphonic orchestral music in Japan is looking to be a very bright one, even when the old guard retires.

Thanks for the share. Will definitely check it out. Give us some time to catch up with all this, will you? ;-)

Having read about this concert, suddenly I also have a urge to revisit Hisaishi's 2008 Ghibli anniversary concert. Absolutely love that one. The two Spirited Away pieces, and the Princess Mononoke encore, in particular always move me like nothing I have ever experienced. I can't imagine how people who actually had childhood memories of those films, and had the privilege of attending the concert in person might have felt about those tunes.

It's worth noting that all the arrangers are pretty young. This group is part of the next generation of orchestrators in Japan. Tsuji is the youngest at 27 years old. Naoe and Tsujita follow at 28. Souhei Kano is actually the oldest of the bunch at 36.

For this album, I'd have to say Souhei Kano's "Close and Open, Demons and the Dead" is the most interesting track but "Melt" is my favorite - it's a great tune. The album in general is pretty good as long as you go in with an understanding that it's a pop arrangement album. That said this album does have a couple issues that I hope will be addressed next time around:

1. The vocal tracks just don't work that well in a concert hall setting. The vocals are just completely overpowered by the orchestra.
2. The audience got a bit too rowdy near the end and forgot that they were at an orchestra concert.

Both of these problems could be corrected by doing a studio recording: no more audience and the vocals could be properly mixed. Of course, a studio recording entirely depends on their budget. Alternatively, they could just get rid of the vocals all together.

I agree about the future of symphonic concerts/albums in Japan looking bright. They must be in demand because producers wouldn't keep greenlighting them otherwise. This particular album ranked #1 on certain digital charts and ranked #8 on the Oricon daily charts. Good signs of a successful release if you ask me. I can tell you there will certainly be more Vocaloid Symphony concerts in the future (and hopefully albums too). The promotional video said "See you next time" and the official website already has an anniversary concert listed () for 2017. There's an endless supply of Vocaloid songs so they could very well do this every year for many years to come, assuming people keep paying for it.

inspired by all the hercules talk i listened again to the final xena volume and its incredible.does not sound like tv music.massive, dark, choral fantasy action.orchestra seems bigger than used in hercules ir previous xena volumes.this and army of darkness are his best works, and i am really happy he did ash vs evil dead which is also great.(and the show is pure fun) all hercules and xena are on spotify.i highly recommend the final volume which starts with fallen angels.tons and tons of highlights.

I wish there truly was a way of legitimately owning the music of Nichijou (that I truly love) without having to get the original BD volumes that are truly expensive each one.. shipping summed. I've tried even searching in japanese auction places, thinking someone maybe wouldn't want the CD's and would just sell them, but nope. No luck.

On other news, these days I've fallen in love (again) with a wonderful japanese soundtrack that I had already in lossless (thanks to one's contribution of it here a year ago) and.. well, hearing it in my subwoofer and all.. it's so wonderful, I've fallen in love with it! I hope to adquire sometime, even though it's out of stock, if luck abides with me. I'd buy it now, but Pok�mon Sun and The Boy and the Beast have left me bankrupt. Hopefully when I get money it's still around. Have to resort to used but very good condition because new and sealed is sold by scalpers. I won't tell which one is it, in fear someone else might get it. But I will share it here when I get it.

I listened to all the Xena OSTs here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nGnP4EwCk and ended up skipping quite a bit of what sounded like generic synth or ethnic bgm to get to the orchestral bits. I wish they released a compilation of just the orchestral Xena/Hercules tracks, then I would actually consider buying it.

The orchestral parts in Vol. 6 are really good, like a whole other score from the first 5. I noticed some Dark Crystal in there too.

KOICHI SUGIYAMA
Space Runaway Ideon - A Contact / Be Invoked (1980)
(Orchestral music only.)



Studio Orchestra
conducted by
Koichi Sugiyama
...

Poor old Koichi Sugiyama; 82 years of age, a career spreading over six decades, a skill for orchestration and melody that most composers can only dream of� and nobody ever talks about him except to wax lyrical about Dragon Quest and occasionally attack him for his politics. Dragon Quest is great � there�s no doubt about that� and I�m of course very grateful that this franchise is keeping a veteran composer busy� but it�s not all he�s done, and it�s certainly not the only work in his oeuvre worthy of discussion.

Yoshiyuki Tomino, like Sugiyama, is a victim of the monumental runaway success of one franchise � Mobile Suit Gundam; Tomino has written and/or directed dozens of critically acclaimed shows but none of them worked their way into the public consciousness like Gundam did. One such series that is almost forgotten today (except by the hardcore fan community) is Space Runaway Ideon � a mecha story with a difference, made in 1980� years before Dragon Quest even existed. His score for the TV series was great fun but a rather typical 70s affair � a mix of saccharine light pop and a tiny, badly recorded orchestra grinding through dated disco numbers. We have already heard the full classical symphony he wrote based on his original melodies, as performed by the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra, but that�s not the whole story as far as Ideon goes�

Ideon yielded some truly atrocious ratings (as did the first Mobile Suit Gundam series, ironically) and like its more famous cousin, was cancelled near to the end of its run, leaving the producers with a massively complicated and involved story which had to be completely resolved in just a few minutes of airtime. They did what they could � and the series did have an ending of sorts � but fans complained, and Tomino wasn�t satisfied with the way it turned out� so it was decided to revisit the story in the form of two films, to be released back-to-back theatrically, which would resolve the story properly. The first film was essentially a clip show condensed version of the TV series. The second film picked up where the TV series finished and concludes with arguably the greatest ending in cinematic history.

Sugiyama provided brand new symphonic (and occasionally, choral � a rarity at the time) scores for the movies; and it�s these that I�m presenting here. Like every Japanese score, alongside the orchestral score we also have disco reminiscent of the TV series, re-used tracks, sloppy filler tracks, and fragmentary stingers. I will upload all of this stuff separately but this release is about the symphonic score, so accordingly these pieces are missing. I have taken the liberty of extracting the symphonic tracks from both films (originally released separately) and running them together in a continuous album format � taken together, we have fifty minutes of cohesive, motif-driven music which plays at times like an Ideon Symphony No 2.

In these scores you will find heroism, grandeur, romance, action, suspense, mysticism, and even religious fervour.

The second film ends with two cues � �Flying� and �Cantata Orbis� - which, together, might constitute the most inspired work of Sugiyama�s career � the final scenes of that film demand a score to end all scores, and the composer absolutely rose to the challenge. Almost ten minutes of music (most of which plays in the film with little or no dialogue) that will have you in floods of tears and laughing with joy all at the same time. Some may call this music melodramatic� Some may call it emotionally manipulative. Let them be damned; it�s living, breathing music that doesn�t hide in the background� music that isn�t scared of coming to the fore. It�s music that aims right for your heart and tells you it�s OK to cry.

Ladies and gentlemen, Koichi Sugiyama at his very best� Space Runaway Ideon, for your pleasure.

Enjoy! :)
TT

Links down :(
Tango, do you still have this? in flac
thanks :)

So I just found out today that Prokofiev had a grandson, and this is the "music" that he makes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38atRejUORM

Listening to rubbish like this somehow manages to make almost appreciate people like Hans Zimmer and Brian Tyler.

Oh, dear God, what the fuck is that? His grandfather is turning in his grave.


Links down
Tango, do you still have this? in flac
thanks

https://MMMEEEGGGAAA.nz/#!0hpgBSqK!VJIx8_4quwWnuzChceiCWR6CBuCpdqH-K39sf1x8Ls8

Change the MMMEEEGGGAAA for... you know... before visiting the link. :D

This sounds like a Yugo Kanno main theme (but it's not): http://picosong.com/HBca/

By the way, Kanno's Symphony No.1 "The Border" will be released on CD on January 25th.

Kaoru Wada
Monster Hunter Stories REMASTERED
Opening, Main Theme and Credits



Download (https://mega.nz/#!8UsVwapL!xSmxURBdzHQvwjFG7RePDMQrkBjJqcMOLYaLO2-sZew)

After months of research, trial and error, tweaking and education, I've decided to return to the REMASTER business for all those lackluster Japanese Studio Recordings.
It took its time but I've finally completed my personal "Filters" if you will: "Moscow", "Warsaw", "London" and "Berlin" that can be applied without much tweaking on individual tracks, meaning if I have a bit of free time I can actually remaster an album in a fraction of the time I used to spent before and bath it in the color I want at a moments notice. I've tried to match the accoustics of the respective concert/studio halls as close as technology allows me.

My goal was to inject live and character into otherwise flat studio recordings and make the listening experience feel like night and day from the original. The first test on my premium sound system in my studio was a rousing success I feel. Monster Hunter was the first real test of my "Warsaw Filter", a rather flat and bone-dry recording is a good staring point, so let me know if the result pleases you just as much as it pleased me. I will not go into details of what I did just yet but let me say upfront that I turned up the reverb quite a bit to test the limits of the "Concert Hall" illusion without sounding muddy. Let me know if it was a success. The little artifacts are unfortunately present in the original as well :( I've included the original tracks for comparison if you don't have them yet.

I hope you find it enjoyable

I really wish every Japanese game/anime soundtrack gets digitally released eventually. It saves a lot of time when I can cherry-pick and buy two or three tracks from an album with just a few clicks. Speaking of Monster Hunter, the recently announced next franchise entry seems to have quite a lot of real orchestral recordings, sounds good so far and I suspect its arranged by one of the usual suspects:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VV5-opm1TE

It has just been announced (http://www.nhk.or.jp/naotora/news/article/161116_2.html) that Yoko Kanno is in charge of the music for the 2017 taiga drama Onna Joshu Naotora. It airs in January. HYPE.

The theme will be performed by the NHK Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Paavo J�rvi, with piano solo by Chinese concert pianist Lang Lang. The news didn't say where she recorded the rest of the score but, knowing Kanno, it's likely to be somewhere that she's never been before.

Edit: It's actually pretty interesting look at Kanno's career in the last few years.

2012: Writes the song "Hana wa Saku" as part of a charity effort for the Great East Japan Earthquake Project. It has already made it's way into textbooks, it's been featured on many TV and radio programs, and has received many covers. It will likely go down as Kanno's most well-known song in Japan.
2013: Composes the music for an NHK morning drama. The NHK morning dramas are known as some of the most popular shows aired in Japan, always achieving very high viewership ratings.
2015: Composes the music for the movie Umimachi Diary. The film won Best Picture at the 39th Japan Academy Awards and earned Kanno a Best Original Score nomination.
2017: Composes the music for an NHK taiga drama. The taiga dramas are some of the most famous and popular television series aired in Japan. It's a very prestigious achievement.

It's not often you see this kind of late-career success. Kanno has gone from being predominantly known by anime fans to being known by the larger Japanese audience, all in only a few years.

Hahaha! I read that first of all as "Yugo Kanno" and I was just about to make a withering post about "Oh, no, fucking Yugo Kanno, not again!" and then I went back and looked again...

NICE! Could this be another Warsaw score at last? NHK is rich enough and traditional enough to do it. It's either going to be Kanno in a completely new direction, or it's going to be full-on symphonic Kanno. Either will be interesting, but Macross Frontier was a very, very long time ago now... I'm really wanting her to get back to what she does best.

It's also interesting considering Kanno's history. Her very first works were for games set in feudal Japan. And now she's composing for a TV series set in feudal Japan. We've come full circle.

I recall that Nobunaga's Ambition had references to some Taiga dramas (Onna Taikoki, Sanga Moyu, Kunitori Monogatari) so this definitely has potential.

For the live adaptation of Ghost of the Shell, there was a presentation event in Tokyo last Monday.
For that occasion, Kenji Kawai scored the new opening scene by re-arranging his famous main theme "Making of a Cyborg". While the opening scene was played on a giant screen, Kawai music was played by an ensemble in live. The beginning of the piece is almost identical to the original but the ending is very different.
With the movie clip : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5amv-vqUFo
With live footage : http://www.allocine.fr/video/player_gen_cmedia=19566354&cfilm=226739.html

However, it will be probably the one direct contribution from Kenji Kawai on the new movie. Indeed, on Imdb, the composer credit goes to Clint Mansell.

Just saw that What.CD is dead. I'm at a loss for words. So much music... gone without warning.

Just saw that What.CD is dead. I'm at a loss for words. So much music... gone without warning.

I'm as devastated as you! Alas, this is the internet. Something will have to come eventually. And what was lost, has to come back.. some way or another!

It was a wonderful place to get 100% quality rips, and most of the time rare stuff.

I'm as devastated as you! Alas, this is the internet. Something will have to come eventually. And what was lost, has to come back.. some way or another!

It was a wonderful place to get 100% quality rips, and most of the time rare stuff.
It really makes me scared that this place could disappear without a trace at any moment. :(

It really makes me scared that this place could disappear without a trace at any moment. :(

It'd be worrying, make my day more boring and I truly don't know any other place to get good VGM/anime music with quality rips.

It'd be worrying, make my day more boring and I truly don't know any other place to get good VGM/anime music with quality rips.
It's not so much the music that worries me. I'm more here for the community and discussion. I don't think there's another thread like this one on the internet. The music is just a bonus.

Holy... What.cd dead?... I uploaded quite a bit of stuff there although I rarely visited to download stuff...

I hope JPopSuki (the only tracker I use) won't be affected by whatever that's going on. :(

stay tuned for my impressions of the turrrican orchestral album! in the meantime fantastic beasts is pretty good and has two major tracks on the deluxe edition (first and last one), allied is a waste of time and monoa is kinda meh, instantly forgettable.btw rogue one of course features williams themes.

It's a shame about What.CD - but they were "on the radar" and it was only a matter of time. I've seen enough forums and sites go down to know that, despite the initial shock and the inevitable panicking, new sites appear to fill the gap and in the long term, nothing of value is lost. Our hobby is constant, but where we practice it often changes - we are moved from venue to venue, sometimes with no warning at all. That is the nature of what we do; when all is said and done, it's illegal and whilst our particular "stall" at PirateCon is a small and insignificant in comparison to some, the things we're interested in sometimes get caught up in the tornado.

Do you remember SuprNova? That got shut down, and everybody bawled and cried that it was the end of a golden era... That was TWELVE YEARS AGO. Who gives a toss about Sloncek's naff old website now? Every few years something really, really BIG comes along and shakes up the status quo. The community has a cup of tea and a sit down, and comes up with something better.

Dunnae woooooooooorry.

Even if the Shrine goes... well, it'll be sad, but a year after, we'll all still be somewhere, sharing and enjoying music - it'll be at a different website, maybe the colour scheme will be different, maybe our current "group" will fragment, maybe our usernames will change... but the more things change, the more they stay the same.

What.CD was big enough for music lovers to try and make a different tracker to follow its steps tbh.

So Sun and Moon had good music.

So Sun and Moon had good music.

So did XY. I truly hope 2017 gives us at least two full volumes of good ol' Shinji Miyazaki music..

Having seen anything from Alma Deutscher? 11 year olds UK from, and making classical very good.
her playing violin with own musics https://youtu.be/zad7fkhGzzs
also playing piano very excellent

hope future :)

A couple new tracks from Yuri on Ice:

Orchestral piece inspired by Ravel: Rapsodie Espagnole (http://picosong.com/HHVN/)
Short piece for string orchestra: La Parfum de Fleurs (http://picosong.com/HHXX/)

I'm guessing they're saving the second opera piece for the last episode.

A couple new tracks from Yuri on Ice:
I'm guessing they're saving the second opera piece for the last episode.

That first opera piece is by far the single best piece of music I have heard in any medium this year. Can't wait to hear the second one!

The Turrican Orchestral Album is great.Its orchestrated version of the original tracks, not suites.some of it reaches the hights of lets say the megaman suite from the score concert (which quickly became one of my favorite tracks of all time)the orchestrations are sublime, a few times it even improves the original compostion.its 45mins only.lets hope they will return for another volume.turrican 3 has a lot of great music.especially the ending is perfect for an emotional orchestral arrangment.

I'm really loving the new Tadlow/Prometheus Thief of Bagdad release so far. Also really glad they have instrumental versions of some of the tracks with songs and dialog. Got my CD this morning.

Years ago somebody posted Henry Wood: Transcriptions/Arrangements in flac. Or maybe some other disc of all the Wood transcriptions for orchestra of various piano works. Does anybody still have this?

Yep, I have it both digitally and physically. But I'm unable to upload it before tomorrow evening, so if anyone else can upload it faster he is very much encouraged to do so ;)

Sirusjr: Totally forgot that Thief of Bagdad is out now. Ordered! There can never be enough R�zsa rerecordings in my life.



And wow, just caught up with the latest Izetta episodes. What a debut! It's love at first sight. I can only describe her music as a mix of Yoko Kanno, orchestral Sahashi and the very best of Kajiura at the moment. There's also one tension cue in particular that very much reminded me of Williams style in the 80s. It sure does help that the show lets the music take center stage many times and has some moments of pure Silver Age fusion of score and picture. On top of it all you even have thematic consistency: Characters have themes and motifs that develop and right now I can instantly hum what I assume is the "Theme of the Witch". With a score this good I'm not even that bothered by no soundtrack news for Keijo yet.

since no one seems to notice it, i will repeat: Witches by Marc Timon Barcelo is one of the greatest scores of this decade.its hard to not tear up.beautiful themes, great orchestrations and a massive finale with swashbuckling action.its on spotify.listen to it asap! its even better than to the ends of time.has a very distinct old school fantasy vibe.more rosza then horner.one of my all-time favorites.

I'm really loving the new Tadlow/Prometheus Thief of Bagdad release so far. Also really glad they have instrumental versions of some of the tracks with songs and dialog. Got my CD this morning.

I was thoroughly enthralled by it when I heard a couple days ago. I was also mightily impressed by the vocal talent either Fitzpatrick or Raine hired; I was expecting the worst.

I was thoroughly enthralled by it when I heard a couple days ago. I was also mightily impressed by the vocal talent either Fitzpatrick or Raine hired; I was expecting the worst.

I could do without most of the songs, but some of them are mild enough that they don't bother me so much.

For those who love the big orchestral sound!!! Rich orchestral sonorities FTW! Elephantine and resonant orchestrations!!!
If you have a high-end audio system, you can easily scare the neighbors!! Don't hesitate to turn on the volume and play it loud!!!



http://www.classicstoday.com/images/sp_art/p9s10.gif
Orchestrations by Sir Henry Wood (1869 - 1944)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Nicholas Braithwaite, conductor
Lyrita Recorded Edition, England


Orchestrations by Sir Henry Wood SRCD216 [RB]: Classical CD Reviews - August 2007 MusicWeb-International (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Aug07/Henry_Wood_SRCD216.htm)
Orchestrations by Sir Henry Wood SRCD216 [JS]: Classical CD Reviews - September 2007 MusicWeb-International (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Sept07/Wood_SRCD216.htm)
Classics Today.com - Your Online Guide to Classical Music (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11282)




Grab it here (https://mega.nz/#!QEsl1bIK!IckXCmp7b0vpzigZz8xo4UQHyt5tMj8PhUZuvyyxR5I)

Hans Zimmer is doing an online masterclass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCX1Ze3OcKo

The world needs more Zimmer minions.

Just bought this magnificent album Arashi no Yoru ni Original Soundtrack (http://vgmdb.net/album/32906) over Solaris Japan.



I am so happy to get this wonderful album. I've been in love with it for days..

Just bought this magnificent album Arashi no Yoru ni Original Soundtrack (http://vgmdb.net/album/32906) over Solaris Japan.

I am so happy to get this wonderful album. I've been in love with it for days..
It's a good one. Previously shared here: Thread 57893

Shinohara was a great composer. He died far too young.

His other works:
The Air / The Air II - Thread 57893
NHK Special: Einstein Roman - Thread 138996
The Piano Forest - Thread 57893

Bonus tracks: Pray to the Moon (http://picosong.com/HiRc/) / Crescent (http://picosong.com/HiRL/)

It's a good one. Previously shared here: [url]http://forums.ffshrine.org/showthread.php?

I know it is a good one, which is why I love it and was eager to get it physically, and new, thanks to the help of a friend. Can't wait to get it.

It also had been shared by someone in lossless from a chinese site; but I'll be ripping it in 100%.

So did XY. I truly hope 2017 gives us at least two full volumes of good ol' Shinji Miyazaki music..

Considering how much music of his has not been released, this is especially needed.

I gravely recommend you to check the latest Bungou Stray Dogs episode at the 8:09 mark.

!!!!!!!!!!!

How can Iwasaki be able to write at this level of skill in a medium he has repeatedly claimed to despise? A long, coherent, orchestral cue that answers the question we've all been asking for months - what was that music in the trailer?!

If Iwasaki can re-discover the joy of writing proper orchestral music, and some more projects come up where this skill is encouraged... he could be on the brink of the next stage of his career...

Meanwhile, Yamashita brings something worthwhile to every episode of Puzzle and Dragons Cross - not least in episode 21 - we actually get one of those big, gorgeous finale cues that just don't exist any more - apart from in Japan. Still a small orchestra, of course, but they're real and they're not wasted.

Between this, Iwasaki's awakening in Bungo, Matsuo back with bells TWICE in Drifters and Keijo, an amazing debut from MICHIRU, and the miracle that is Yuri... what can I say? Wow, what a season! Grand comebacks from some of the old guard, and staggering efforts by newcomers. Taku Matsushiba could rival Souhei Kano - and he's f*****g twenty five!

Maybe he got fed up with some of the shows he was working on, and Qualidea Code was the straw that broke the camel's back?

Iwasaki recently said he was in the middle of mastering the new OST for Stray Dogs on his Twitter, you can tell he's very excited for once about his music. What path he will go from here on out is up in the air. That's the fun of following Iwasaki I suppose.

OMG The Lost World Jurassic Park complete!!!

You will not believe Keijo this week. :-O

You will not believe Keijo this week. :-O
I'm just wondering where the soundtrack is. No CD release has been announced and there's no bonus CD for any of the blu-rays.

yet another great spanish composer which you can check out on spotify, just like marc timon barcelo and oscar navarro, diego navarro, arturo rodriguez.his name is alberto de la rocha.not really filmscore but ispired by it and great themes and orchestrations.very very enjoyable.

I'm just wondering where the soundtrack is. No CD release has been announced and there's no bonus CD for any of the blu-rays.

That is beyond strange. I can't fathom why you'd put so much money and effort into music for a show that doesn't even NEED good music, and then fail to commercially exploit it. Not even as much as a Super Boobies Edition with butt-cheeks mousemat and Bonus CD... :O

I can only hope that no release has been announced because they're plotting something, or they're waiting to see how the show is received... (As far as I can tell, it's doing pretty well, right?)

Keijo: Ha! I knew it was going places: Music fit for the Colosseum. It is indeed worrysome that everything else gets marketed besides the soundtrack. I imagined something like "Original Butt Track" would be a nobrainer but I wonder why nothing got announced.

Brave Witches: Checked in on it again and holy hell... I've never seen so much horrid CGI mixed with absolutely beautiful drawn backgrounds (buildings). But I would not love the medium so dearly if they didn't give moments of pure heart and grace to ridiculous projects: Brave Witches Romantic Piece (https://sendvid.com/lhri2a23)
Someone over there must really cares about this project because the background art and music is miles above the original series. The music is absolutly sublime during certain quieter scenes, when the violin appears during this cue it was almost too much for me... they really do put a lot of passion into it.

The upcoming season also doesn't seem to let the current momentum of quality orchestral scores fade. Sun and Moon has some gorgeus oldschool Hollywood moments (end of episode two is just... wow). Chain Chronicle is basically a continuation of the recent quality Japanese fantasy scores... would not even feel out of place on one of the recent Symphonic albums, Koda certainly delivers. ACCA and Showa should have plenty of delicious Jazz in all flavors and let's not forget Oshima's Little Witch. I don't know what the Japanese are smoking right now but I noticed that even in Pop things are heating up. More and more J-Pop songs feature Jazz and Brass in addition to strings and for some even a real ensemble is present underneath and classic form (march, waltz etc.) is employed, like with the recent Kantai song. And Pop songs for shows like Precure have somehow become Broadway quality... I also think Yuri on Ice has freaking amazing pop songs, perhaps the best I've heared in ages.


@hater:



The Concert Works of Oscar Navarro



Download (https://mega.nz/#!C9wShCiA!N-3LA9bG9LSf8_ONUhhfU0pUJLVZDkXr9FUd8nHwpKI)


To my knowledge some of the concert pieces are not commercially available anywhere. However, you can ask him on his website if you want to buy some of them or sent him a little support. From the generally great filmic works I especially recommend "The Seven Trumpets of the Apocalypse" which is a grand symphonic work of a caliber you will most likely never hear from Hollywood again.

That is beyond strange. I can't fathom why you'd put so much money and effort into music for a show that doesn't even NEED good music, and then fail to commercially exploit it. Not even as much as a Super Boobies Edition with butt-cheeks mousemat and Bonus CD... :O

I can only hope that no release has been announced because they're plotting something, or they're waiting to see how the show is received... (As far as I can tell, it's doing pretty well, right?)

Sales wise it's apparently predicted to sell less than 2,000 copies for the first volume which is pretty bad. Girls sport anime tends to sell bad like most yuri shows so who knows if the series will/can continue.

@ vinphonic:
oh yes thank you very much.i think now i have all of his available works and will gladly buy if those from youtube come to cd.freakin love his music.he only did two moviescores so far, both have excellent themes but his concert works all have the sound of big classic moviescore or even japanese game concerts.and all of them are pretty long as well, so you get fully developed ideas and themes and strong, often spectacular build up and pay off as well.las sieta trompetas del apokalpsis is over 30mins and kinda like a mix of goldsmiths omen series and parts sound like...the legend of zelda?! and his religious piece noahs ark...sounds like a don bluth animated score from the 90s.its glorious.EVERYTHING he did so far is great.his next project seems to be a big budget action/war western from mexico.that has a lot of potential.but honestly i just want more of his concert works.more of the epic themes he did for the gods of olympus, more of the angelic choir from seven trumpets, more of the sweeping emotion heard in legacy and others....

Fun fact: Oscar Navarro is the best friend of Johan de Meji, another genius.And he looks like my Boss.

Did anyone listen to the remaining volumes of Hattori's NHK taiga drama? Is there anything worthwhile on there?

The Legacy of Japanese Composers
Akira Senju



Akira Senju is another Japanese master romanticist and the familiar Japanese phenomenon of a composer writing concert works for media. If you see him in interviews he’s really a very gentle and soft-spoken fellow and his music certainly reflects that. He is also an enigma in the sense that no other Japanese composer has as many recordings with eastern European orchestras and worked with European conductors as he does. Senju was actively working to form lasting musical relations between countries on the other side of the world and was one of the main instigators we have to thank dearly that we’re hearing so much Warsaw scores today. To this day he still upholds that close relation and had a concert with Warsaw in Tokyo last year.

But before I begin to delve into his body of work, let’s address the elephant in the room:
Yes, Senju very much likes to quote himself a lot, to unhealthy degrees and has a template of various tricks and moments he likes to repeat. Even among these “Best Selections” you will hear various pieces with the same underlying structure. But it’s by no means as bad as with someone like Horner, where it’s the same piece, note for note with minor alterations at best. Every score maybe has the same foundations but what is build upon those is most of the time (apart from Valvrave) unique enough to not cause illness known as “Horner fatigue” ;)

As always, the credits go to tangotreats, nextday, Akashi San and Herr Salat for providing various albums in FLAC that are hard to obtain physically.

Romantic Selections

Part I – Symphonic Selections



Download (https://mega.nz/#!MB0zRaQC!v3UesnucoEBSNEwjuTgJK0fX7S39JgJa1SASh-AsaEY)

Let’s begin with some of his very best symphonic works. THOUSAND NESTS is basically his Symphony No. 2 and a stunning concert arrangement of his TV score for Mobile Suit Victory Gundam, performed by the Cracow Radio Symphony Orchestra. The Gundam series really stands as a pinnacle of astonishing symphonic music for media products and he really outdid himself with this one. Not that the TV score isn’t already a masterpiece but here the music is more refined and focused, it’s very much Senju at his very best.

Walk�re Story for Orchestra, performed by the Slovak Philharmonic Orchestra is a symphonic arrangement of Hiroyuki Kawada’s score for the video game Valkyrie no Densetsu and a glorious romantic Fantasy score, Senju pretty much makes Kawada’s music his own with his unique trademarks and style. An essential album for anyone in love with symphonic game music.

Hikaru Genji is one of the most phenomenal pop arrangement albums I’ve heard, sounding more like a Golden Age film score than pop arrangement album, thanks to Senju’s brilliant orchestrations. It’s full of moments of romantic violin concerto and Hollywood grandeur.

Requiem for Showa is another brilliant symphonic work, essentially a concert work written for the Japanese film 226. Senju’s trademarks appear very strong here and his classical influences can be felt most prominently here. “Destiny” is definitely among my favorite Senju pieces.


Part II – The Warsaw Selections



Download (https://mega.nz/#!cF9yTSLL!UjLAl-Gp-jMREDFqVdhJ-vyFg2K8PeN2iYQy1nJ2YfA)

Furin Kazan is a glorious collaboration between Senju and Warsaw… what a theme! That B section is to die for. The rest is some of the very best music Senju has ever written. I also think that it’s a blessing that there’s almost no “battle tracks” and mostly romantic or tension tracks, as it is no secret that I think this is Senju’s strongest field. Again, it is more concert work than TV score if you get down to it and definitely among my top ten NHK drama scores.

The Mystery of Rampo is another masterpiece by Senju, this time performed by the Czech Philharmonic. It’s Senju at his most romantic, intimate and introspective. The score is full of absolute beauty and grace and transports your mind to another plane of reality. The Main Theme is a real killer as well, a tragic waltz in style of Shostakovich.

Chinmoku (The Silent Fleet) is another case of Senju being at his best when there’s almost no action. It’s all delicious mystery and tension with introspective moments. A very unusual war score indeed, the music again being elevated by Warsaw.

Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood is certainly among his most popular works. He has written over two hours of score but I think a more concise symphonic album with the essential themes would have been preferable to what we got. But what is there is still gold. Over an hour of Warsaw score with concert grade music. Senju has written some of the very best action tracks and marches for this project. Everything related to the B side of the Main Theme, most prominent in the Overture, and everything related to Amestris with that very Copelandesque tone, is my favorite. This time I’ve included every orchestral piece from the series as there are some very enjoyable concert pieces worth listening to.


Part III – TV Selections



Download (https://mega.nz/#!INEGCYQJ!ZKPJx74UxS82vD1-rCwuFUFYUKnp1DmfFunbL1OFQ3c)

Victory Gundam is a remarkable score for one of Japan’s most revered franchises, certainly among the very best Gundam scores and on many favorite’s lists. For good reason, Senju delievers on all front with a romantic war score with strong themes and classic action. Some of my absolute favorite Senju moments are present here (M-51).

99 Years of Love is yet another great TV drama with a fantastic theme and plenty of the usual Senju romanticism, this time mixed with classic Hollywood grandeur and some divine moments like “Soldier’s Aria”.

Red Garden is in many ways a complementary work to Rampo and equally impressive. Introspective and reflective of the human soul and especially noteworthy because of Senju’s orchestral arrangement of KOKIA songs.

The Snow Queen is very much the usual Senju trademarks and style in full World Masterpiece Theater mode. The romantic Violin pieces appear with much more vigor and heart than usual. The songs are gorgeous as well.

Gensomaden Saiyuki Requiem is a very unique score from Senju with the use of E-Guitar and Erhu in addition to the usual symphonic score. Even with a small studio-sized ensemble he works the same magic.

Valvrave is even more unique but in the sense that Senju goes along with the general conventions of anime action, almost Sahashiesque in certain parts. You can also consider it a best of from his various concert pieces, this time performed with orchestral rock, modern percussion and Morricone/Sahashi vocals. I like it.


Part IV – Film Selections



Download (https://mega.nz/#!1RsTgTbL!QB10l5PvVjKZzmZn2PpmAfaeq_s4xXM5i8P4u4WcYK4)

The Dream of Africa is in best fashion another symphonic work full of romanticism. Senju’s answer to Barry’s Out of Africa.

GRAND ODYSSEY is a classic Hollywood SciFi adventure score they just don’t make no more. The only fault are the rather short tracks, but the theme is excellent and is has some great action moments.

Concerto Nippon has many winks to classical composers , even direct references but Senju still puts in enough of his own to make a great score.

Magic Tree House has another theme to die for but like GRAND ODYSSEY too much short tracks for my liking. But the lengthy pieces and “THAT Theme”, to quote Tango, more than make up for it’s shortcomings.

Walking my Life is a very romantic Senju, almost entirely focused on piano and perfect for a relaxing afternoon listen or a quiet night. Very serene.

The last album are various Main Themes he composed over the course of his long and successful career. I’ve spiced it up a notch with including some Themes from albums that didn’t make the cut in this selection because apart from the Main Theme there’s not much to them compared to Senju’s A-Game (Like Algernon, Battery or Vesperia).




Composer Profile: Akira Senju



Trademark: Concert Composer, Master of Melody, Notorious Copycat

Education: Tōkyō Geijutsu Daigaku

Style: Romantic Repertoire, Golden Age Film Score

Similar Western Composer: John Barry, 90s James Horner

Waiting for my Arashi no Yoru ni CD that I bought over Solaris Japan. It left Japan over one or two days ago, don't know where it is now (prolly won't get a tracking til it reaches Spain, or maybe not) but it should arrive this week, being Express. Can't wait.

@Vinphonic: you should put all these composer compilations in a thread so they'll be easy to find in the future. :)

I'm still thinking about what to do with them once all is finished (winter - next spring). But putting them all in one basket should be a wise solution.

Tatsuya Kato - Main theme of Lovelive! Sunshine!!
http://picosong.com/UCuu/


Edit: Tales of Orchestra 2016 is getting a CD release. Orchestration by Daisuke Ehara, Souhei Kano, Sachiko Miyano, Naoyuki Chikatani, Kayoko Naoe, Tomomichi Takeoka and Takahiro Tsuji

Also, unrelated, but I saw that Takeoka had a recording with the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra back in April. He hasn't announced what project it was for yet.

Very nice! Taking off where Fujisawa finished... Broadway. Probably the best we've heared from Kato yet. Will give the album a listen tomorrow. Oh and I find time and time again just how marvelous the Anime scoring world really is... even after all these years. If you've written off a score based on first impressions from the show, checked out an album on a whim and even if you find 90% electronics, there's a high chance you still find enough gold to make a fortune, case in point:





Tomohisa Ishikawa (TECHNOBOYS PULCRAFT GREEN-FUND)
PANDORA IN THE CRIMSON SHELL: GHOST URN RHAPSODY
Chamber Orchestra, Piano, Syntheziser & Soprano



Download (https://mega.nz/#!75QBVAZY!AZaCHvaotWrOFA8bCK_mPZs1A-9UGPDT3XiK1ophPnw)

Sample (http://picosong.com/UCJs)

Excited. After a few days (it left Japan the 26th) the Arashi no Yoru CD has reached Spain, Madrid. Should be in my house, if I'm lucky, in one or two days. Or less. I picked Express. Not sure if Correos would use ordinary..

So is anyone in this thread either already playing FFXV or soon to be playing it? Anyone relatively hyped about it? I started listening to the mini soundtrack today only to stop to give myself a chance to hear some music for the first time in the game.

Yuri on Ice is sublime as usual this week.

serenade for two - 梅林太郎 & 松司馬拓 featuring Wouter Hamel

https://a.tumblr.com/tumblr_ohhbvpnMmw1rmz1izo1.mp3

Piano Concerto In B-Minor: Allegro Appasionato - 松司馬拓指揮 Ensemble FOVE(Piano:實川風)

https://a.tumblr.com/tumblr_ohhoetTXqB1rxiyl1o1.mp3

They really are taking the Yoko Kanno approach. I wonder how many people are writing the music for this show?

So is anyone in this thread either already playing FFXV or soon to be playing it? Anyone relatively hyped about it? I started listening to the mini soundtrack today only to stop to give myself a chance to hear some music for the first time in the game.
i will try to start today, but the 9gig patch will propably prevent me from it.

And it came! I'm so happy you have no idea, to own this gorgeous album in my collection! It's my first Japanese import. I liked how they put a plastic case for you to put the CD in, they put so much care. I like that.. knowing I spent a lot of money in the import, I'm glad that it's protected somewhat.. lmao. I'll be ripping it 100% and scanning it this afternoon. :D And I'm thinking about getting the Lucario and Keldeo movie soundtracks that are my favourites and have been wanting for a while.. should I get something else?

i will try to start today, but the 9gig patch will propably prevent me from it.

I hadn't gotten around to purchasing a PS4 before so I thankfully got to take advantage of a deal on Newegg giving me a free copy of FFXV with the PS4 Slim Bundle. I also had a few credits for the web site to lower the price even more. But since it was an online deal I probably won't get to play it for another few days plus I'll have to do all the updates when I get it.

New BotW trailer: https://youtu.be/vDFZIUdo764

The composer is still unknown, but I'm looking forward to this different take on Zelda music.

I truly hope they release a soundtrack of it.. please.

John Williams starts recording the next Star Wars score this month:

According to an article in Variety, covering Williams work for The BFG and James Newton Howard’s Fantastic Beats, Williams will beging recording the score for Star Wars: Episode VIII this month “and expects to record off and on through March or April 2017.” Here’s the Williams part of the interview:

“I loved doing it,” says Williams of “BFG,” “because it was a change from a lot of the things we’ve done. It was done with such feeling and such humanity that it represented a charming palette for me.”

For Williams, the orphan girl Sophie (Ruby Barnhill) and her adventure with a Big Friendly Giant (Mark Rylance) “was really an opportunity to compose and orchestrate a little children’s fantasy for orchestra.” He likened the experience to working on “Home Alone” 26 years ago, especially “the lightheartedness and fun of it. Even when scenes are threatening or ominous, we know that it’s not serious.”

Williams composed more than 90 minutes of music for an 85-piece L.A. orchestra, including especially virtuosic parts for the flute section. “We tried to animate these little dreams that flit about the screen with flutes and harps and wispy harmonies,” the composer adds.

He praised the L.A. musicians as “world class” and was so inspired that he took the same ensemble over to UCLA’s Royce Hall a few months later and recorded an entire album of Spielberg movie themes, which Sony Classical will release next year.

“BFG” was based on a 1982 children’s novel by British writer Roald Dahl, whom Williams often encountered at the home of his friend and collaborator, director Robert Altman, in the late 1960s. “He seemed to be a tweedy, literary type,” Williams recalled, noting that he “had interest in music” and that they met not long before “Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory,” the 1971 musical version of his “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.”

Williams concedes that he had hoped for greater commercial success for “The BFG,” which was deemed a box-office disappointment after its July 1 release. His next film, however, won’t be: He begins recording “Star Wars Episode VIII” in December and expects to record off and on through March or April 2017.

-http://www.jwfan.com/?p=9291

Sounds like there will be no more LSO and locked cut for Williams.

I'm looking forward to that Sony Classical album, and his next Star Wars. BFG was indeed a great score of his. It's a pity he can't be in the LSO anymore (I felt like one thing that made his scores hear so well was that) but eh..

Am I the only one who finds the La La Land Jurassic Park set a bit unnecessary? It seems they added minor amounts of new music to the first film score and the second has always been less of interest to me because of its more action/horror feel. I'm also expecting La La Land will give it even more loudness "fixes" than the recent deluxe edition. Thoughts?

The lost world is fucking awesome.you can quote that.also 40mins of unreleased music and several differences.williams in pure badassary mode.

I do agree. The Lost World: Jurassic Park still stands as a fairly credible score, at least in its own right. Listening to "The Lost World" at the moment, it's a bold musical journey; quite entertaining at that. Definitely one of the better cues and / or motifs of the score. The most memorable for certain.

No, this collection wasn't entirely necessary, but they released it for some reason, didn't they? Considering that it takes a good deal of money for them to put out a release, I imagine they wanted this done. I suppose it's a win/win.

Sure, so release The Lost World expanded edition. Why re-release Jurassic Park yet again with minor additions musically? Better yet, why stretch Jurassic Park across two discs just to give us a slightly different version of a single cue?

I truly hope they release a soundtrack of it.. please.
I personally asked for this directly, but no response was given. If one had, I wouldnt spoil the info, either, but you can be sure that I did ask so let's hope that influences something

EDIT: Really looking forward to The Last Guardan's music. I know it is a different composer, but knowing what Ueda-san is looking for, I imagine it to be very good. I will be picking up the game in under 2 hours, and cannot wait for a release of the music!

i got chills and a serious medal of honor vibe from the third rogue one clip where jyn talks to the rebel commanders.the action in the first clip was very call of duty-esque, the suspense and the build up in the second one kinda like lennie moores old republic music.sounds very promising so far.

^My exact thoughts. I'm really looking forward to it. Been waiting to hear some material from Giacchino reminiscent to Call of Duty and Medal of Honor for a good while now.

It sounds like very typical modern Giacchino, to me - themeless, cellular, static, heavy in infantile percussion, and mixed in with some limp John Williams pastiche. It sounds PRECISELY like I thought it would. Alexandre Desplat could've knocked this out of the park. Any real composer could have. What we have, instead, is a film music fanboy in a panic throwing together a score in a few weeks - NOT his fault, but equally not the best start for any composer; particularly when you're talking about Giacchino - he loves symphonic film music but lacks the training and competence to write it.

Oh, well... Rogue One should be a fun movie to tide us over until Episode 8 next year, but I'm not (nor was I ever, really) expecting it to be the remotest bit interesting from a scoring perspective.

Yearly attendance at Classical Music Appreciation Camp for Budding Film Score Fans should be state mandated between the ages of 12-18 — on punishment of daily Polka Party! torture.

Thoughts about The Last Guardian? Debut score from Takeshi Furukawa. LSO.

A 19 track, 60 minute soundtrack was released today.

It sounds like very typical modern Giacchino, to me - themeless, cellular, static, heavy in infantile percussion, and mixed in with some limp John Williams pastiche. It sounds PRECISELY like I thought it would. Alexandre Desplat could've knocked this out of the park. Any real composer could have. What we have, instead, is a film music fanboy in a panic throwing together a score in a few weeks - NOT his fault, but equally not the best start for any composer; particularly when you're talking about Giacchino - he loves symphonic film music but lacks the training and competence to write it.

Oh, well... Rogue One should be a fun movie to tide us over until Episode 8 next year, but I'm not (nor was I ever, really) expecting it to be the remotest bit interesting from a scoring perspective.

themeless has been already proven wrong as there are clearly two themes in the little over a minute worth of music from the 3 clips.also saying it themeless from a little over a minute of bits is silly.i am VERY sure that it is going to be much much better than you expect.this is star wars.not another project.its the project of your dreams, the moment you have been preparing for since you started writing music, much likely way before that even.even if its only 4.5 weeks, you have a lot of ideas in your head already.and the movie seems to be great, so that adds another layer of inspiration.he WILL deliver.the third clip demonstrated that clearly.failure is not an option.

And, it begins.

How on earth is it silly? I didn't judge the score - I judged the fragments of it we have, and theorised about what the rest of the score may sound like. I expected the score to sound substantially like modern Giacchino with a little more conscious Williams-aping appropriate to the franchise. Based on the music we've heard there is no reason for me to change that expectation, or to believe that Giacchino has suddenly became competent. I do not rate Giacchino at all - some good music has been released in his name, but it's generally agreed that a) Giacchino is at his best when he's pretending to be Williams, and b) Giacchino's best work is almost twenty years behind him.

I don't doubt that his Star Wars score will be perceived - at least, peripherally - one of his better works in recent years. I don't doubt that a great part of the perception that it is will be fueled not by the quality of the music, but by Giacchino sticking closer than usual to the Williams mould. From the music we've heard in the clips released so far, combined with Giacchino's statements in interviews, combined with the simple fact that, even for a skilled composer, coming up with two hours of complex symphonic music in a couple of weeks is a virtual impossibility, it's likely that the action segments of the score will be musically simplistic, highly percussive, and written in Giacchino's traditional densely-packed cellular style.


proven wrong

No, you disagree with me. That's not proof.


there are clearly two themes in the little over a minute worth of music

There is an arrangement of notes used as a motif, I will grant you - but nothing at all that is worth of the term "theme" - Leia's Theme is a theme. Yoda's Theme is a theme. Rey's Theme is a theme. Giacchino's modern style is to use short, easily-identified motifs as hooks on which to hang otherwise anonymous and musically rambling, directionless score. Giacchino, most of the time, doesn't write themes - he writes motifs. This is because a) proper, developing, versatile and diverse themes are hard to write and Giacchino is simply not up to the task of writing them - and b) proper, developing, versatile, and diverse themes tend to get smashed to pieces in the edit as last-minute changes are made to a film in post production; Williams, as a genuinely skilled, trained, and experienced musician, can fix this pretty well on the scoring stage with nothing more than a pencil - but Giacchino cannot - and even if he could, he doesn't have the luxury of time as he's been thrown into a shambolic production at the last minute and been asked to write the score of a lifetime. It ain't gonna happen.


i am VERY sure that it is going to be much much better than you expect

I hope so - although I'm expecting it to be marginally better than completely hopeless, so if he can do better than THAT, it will exceed my expectations.

I WANT this to be a fantastic score. I WANT Giacchino to surprise everyone. I WANT to be 100% wrong. I WANT to be made to look stupid. I don't think it's going to happen.


he WILL deliver.the third clip demonstrated that clearly

Just a minute ago, I was "silly" to say I thought the score would be bad based on a few fragments of music but now you are invoking the exact same argument to "prove" that it's going to be excellent.


failure is not an option.

Failure is ALWAYS an option - what happens in a difficult situation depends on the skill of the composer, and in a situation like this even an A-lister would struggle to succeed - with Giacchino in the hot seat, I am not going to hold my breath... :)



When I am comparing to a Williams score, I tend to expect "theme" to mean a little more.

Thoughts about The Last Guardian? Debut score from Takeshi Furukawa. LSO.

A 19 track, 60 minute soundtrack was released today.

I REALLY love this score so far. I haven't gotten all the way through it, but I absolutely love how each track is composed. My favorite theme has to be the Tower theme and the subsequent escape sequence featured in the gameplay trailer. I love how tense and then all of sudden this wonderful, majestic theme plays. I thought it interesting that Furukawa instead chose to score the environment instead of the characters to tell the story of the game. The chords he composed in some of the swells in the strings are simply gorgeous and the score isn't afraid to be quiet and when the emotion comes in, it is satisfying. I honestly haven't had this much interest in a game score in a while. I hope to see more of Furukawa in the future! And of course, the LSO delivers a stunning performance :).

Update: I am on the track titled "Victorious"... I love the brass chords and the build complete with the clever addition of the theme from the end of the track Falling Bridge.

Tracklist for Stray Dogs just came out:


01 Scarlet Sky
02 夾竹桃
03 Dormito bene
04 焦眉
05 文豪AcidJazz
06 鬱日記
07 愁眉
08 深淵
09 嗚呼ヱリス
10 或Q
11 武蔵野マアチ
12 文豪ロック645
13 Batalha
14 Kante
15 愛と技巧
16 汚辱
17 文豪交響曲第１番 1楽章　組合
18 文豪交響曲第１番 2楽章　鯨
19 文豪交響曲第１番 3楽章　横浜
20 友といふもの

Songs # 17-19 are labelled as part of a symphonic suite with 3 movements. It's no return to Agito, but it's a start. Hopefully Iwasaki has something grand coming up for the final episodes.

I REALLY love this score so far. I haven't gotten all the way through it, but I absolutely love how each track is composed. My favorite theme has to be the Tower theme and the subsequent escape sequence featured in the gameplay trailer. I love how tense and then all of sudden this wonderful, majestic theme plays. I thought it interesting that Furukawa instead chose to score the environment instead of the characters to tell the story of the game. The chords he composed in some of the swells in the strings are simply gorgeous and the score isn't afraid to be quiet and when the emotion comes in, it is satisfying. I honestly haven't had this much interest in a game score in a while. I hope to see more of Furukawa in the future! And of course, the LSO delivers a stunning performance :).

Update: I am on the track titled "Victorious"... I love the brass chords and the build complete with the clever addition of the theme from the end of the track Falling Bridge.

You'll be surprised to hear me say this, but I'm loving it too! It's obvious from the outset that this is proper music written by a proper composer. It's well orchestrated, and imaginative. It is not heavy on theme, but in the same way that The Matrix wasn't. Falling Bridge is a masterclass; unsettling rhythms, shifting harmonies, precise, propulsive brass stabs, a real sensation of driving forward motion, and in the mid-section, a gorgeous romantic outburst that grows organically from the already-established harmonic movement. There is almost no melody in nearly four minutes but it remains dynamic and interesting in a way that so little music these days manages to.

How can a score be modern, not overtly melodic, and at the same time astoundingly well constructed, musically fascinating, exciting, visceral, and exceedingly well orchestrated? The Last Guardian is.

I REALLY love this score so far. I haven't gotten all the way through it, but I absolutely love how each track is composed. My favorite theme has to be the Tower theme and the subsequent escape sequence featured in the gameplay trailer. I love how tense and then all of sudden this wonderful, majestic theme plays. I thought it interesting that Furukawa instead chose to score the environment instead of the characters to tell the story of the game. The chords he composed in some of the swells in the strings are simply gorgeous and the score isn't afraid to be quiet and when the emotion comes in, it is satisfying. I honestly haven't had this much interest in a game score in a while. I hope to see more of Furukawa in the future! And of course, the LSO delivers a stunning performance :).

Update: I am on the track titled "Victorious"... I love the brass chords and the build complete with the clever addition of the theme from the end of the track Falling Bridge.
It's very cinematic and cohesive. If you didn't tell me, I'd probably guess it was a film score. I'm guessing that's what they were looking for when they hired him. In addition to the strings, the piano work is quite lovely. I wonder why he used it so sparingly? "End Titles" is probably my favorite piece simply because of the piano.


Tracklist for Stray Dogs just came out:

Songs # 17-19 are labelled as part of a symphonic suite with 3 movements. It's no return to Agito, but it's a start. Hopefully Iwasaki has something grand coming up for the final episodes.
17. Symphonic Suite Bungo, Mov.1: Guild
18. Symphonic Suite Bungo, Mov.2: Whale
19. Symphonic Suite Bungo, Mov.3: Yokohama

Who could have guessed that 2016 would see Iwasaki return to purely symphonic orchestral music?

News bit about Yoko Kanno's taiga:
"The full version of the main theme "Amatora" is a masterpiece that is approximately 14 minutes long. The opening theme is an excerpt from it."

http://www.music-lounge.jp/v2/articl/news/detail/?articl=2016/12/07-17:00:00_8efe12502a26ecb34ad97823f2329b13

Is that some sort of a theme suite? Hope it is included on the album.

Is that some sort of a theme suite? Hope it is included on the album.
Yeah, it seems to be a suite of some sort. It's split into 4 tracks on the first soundtrack (http://vgmdb.net/album/63118) (out January 11).

14 minutes... Yoko Kanno has written a bloody double concerto, and recorded it with two world-class soloists, a world-class conductor, and a world-class orchestra... for a television drama. I mean, I know it's a Taiga drama... but this is unprecedented.

CANNOT WAIT! THANK YOU! :D

14 minutes... Yoko Kanno has written a bloody double concerto, and recorded it with two world-class soloists, a world-class conductor, and a world-class orchestra... for a television drama. I mean, I know it's a Taiga drama... but this is unprecedented.

CANNOT WAIT! THANK YOU! :D
Actually, from what I can tell, it will be a piano concerto. Lang Lang is playing piano for the main theme, while Midori Goto is playing violin for the ending theme (the ending theme seems to be separate from the main theme).

I think it's funny how it was just last month that we were discussing Kanno and Iwasaki... and then out of nowhere we get a symphonic suite from each of them. Talk about great timing.

Deleted.

Actually, from what I can tell, it will be a piano concerto. Lang Lang is playing piano for the main theme, while Midori Goto is playing violin for the ending theme (the ending theme seems to be separate from the main theme).

I think it's funny how it was just last month that we were discussing Kanno and Iwasaki... and then out of nowhere we get a symphonic suite from each of them. Talk about great timing.

Ah, even more fascinating! Putting a piece of music before Lang Lang... well, you're not going to give him crap. This is going to be wonderful. (I think.)

Ah, even more fascinating! Putting a piece of music before Lang Lang... well, you're not going to give him crap. This is going to be wonderful. (I think.)
I have high hopes, especially since Lang Lang says that the piece sounds like it was influenced by french impressionist music (which happens to be my favorite genre of classical music). Well, we'll know soon enough!

Excellent news. Is it just me or are the next weeks going to ruin my financial balance. I don't think we even have enough time to appreciate all those good to great scores coming out and the next few months have so much games I'm interested in with great scores to boot that I better start saving soon :D

Oh and while I'm not in love with all of Last Guardian, the score is definetely worth keeping. While I prefer Colossus more, at the very least I really appreciate how the music is used in the game and I think in context it really works its full magic. That said, it could have used some more melody. The king of Boy and Beast scores is still Kamen's Iron Giant for me and it just isn't on that level to completely wreck me emotionally at the end. But the two final pieces are amazing grand symphonic pieces regardless. I hope it will not be the last game of Ueda and I'm looking forward to Furukawa's next project.

The Legacy of Japanese Composers
Naoki Sato



There is no shortage of Japanese composers who write music in classic Hollywood style but there's perhaps no one as Hollywoodesque as Japanese media composer Naoki Sato. He�s also a true workhorse, his body of work enormous, and you find every flavor from the Silver to the Zimmer age in his work. His music does not just sound vaguely like Horner or Silvestri, more often than not he pays direct homage to their style and even little winks to their themes. But certain scores also remind me of Morricone in many ways with his taste for vocals and focus on Leitmotif above all else. Like Horner, his music is upfront and right in your face, he deals in absolute moments rather than complex mechanisms, and those moments can absolutely wreck you if you are unprepared.

It is astounding that a man who speaks so profoundly with a Hollywood composer voice did in fact not work with ANY famous orchestra aside from the NHK Symphony, and not even for a whole score. I guess he really doesn�t like recording overseas and judging by how little online presence he has he seems to be the type that avoids the spotlight and would rather work with local studio ensembles than prestigious orchestras.

BUT by working day and night, year after year, there�s no avoiding the fact that he tends to repeat himself a lot and he sure wrote dozens of crappy scores too. They function on a basic level and will cover the bills, but noteworthy they are certainly not. Ironic that if he became a Hollywood composer today, his worst output would be the only acceptable standard now for major projects. We would never have heard the true Naoki Sato, a whole other person and composer �from his brother Naoki Syntho� (tangotreats) if he had made it over there.

If you look at all the glorious and timeless scores Sato wrote with local studio ensembles for projects on a much MUCH smaller scale, one has to wonder what other Hollywood composers who we think are terrible right now could potentially write IF only the environment would allow it. If I only came in contact with Sato�s �Syntho� persona and listeneded to all the Zimmeresque work he has done I would have written him off as nothing special long ago. The classical trained master of big moments would have never graced my ears.

But nonetheless I�m grateful that on the other side of the world Horner�s Legacy of �the big Hollywood moment� lives on:




Naoki Sato: Magical Music Busters



Download (https://mega.nz/#!dVcUESrb!dUfkZJ7-Zaze9WTcfwTARj-6XsyxN3qCmiW5ZL8U_r0)

The biggest Japanese franchise Sato scored music for was Pretty Cure , a little sister to Japanese famous Super Sentai and Kamen Rider franchises. Sato was the composer for five seasons straight as well as several movies and compilation films. After years of neglecting them I have found much more enjoyment as I�ve grown older. Sato scored it in best manner of old Hollywood and Disney television shows but hypercharged with vigor and wackiness. A clear focus is on the drumkit as well. He wrote some stellar pieces for the franchise among hours upon hours of entertaining bravado. At his best he even gives Takaki a run for his money. With the DX3 movie score he even gives his involvement proper closure with a rousing finish and I wonder if Takaki will eventually top his output. I also have to say it: Early Precure has some smashing songs under its belt, and it�s primarily thanks to Sato�s involvement. It makes me wish that every anime series opening and ending should be done by the series composer a well. Just look at what Sahashi did.





Naoki Sato: Psalms of Heroism



Download ( https://mega.nz/#!UMUX3BzZ!2vNCU3zZpdD-cTensKRSwTUbGa8_29kf7I2pKQTBAkk)

Eureka seveN is a special project because it�s the very first Sato score I�ve ever heard and still one of his best TV scores all things considered. It got everything to make the orchestral fan jump with joy. It�s full of moments of absolute beauty, tragedy and heroism. The only downside is no strong leitmotif but oh boy, does he make up for that with the movie. The movie score wrecked me, it�s heartfelt themes stroke right into my soul. Later I found out that he wrote one cohesive score but separated it across two different projects. Don�t believe me, then listen to my new version where I combined the two scores so that it makes sense structurally and emotionally. They even have the EXACT SAME THEME, not even alterations. As a cohesive whole this is my favorite symphonic score Sato has done. Every time it still wrecks me. Be Invoked.

The lighting stroke twice with Heroic Age. Sato wrote one of the most majestic piece ever composed for media. The grandeur of Space is certainly encapsulated by the music. It has classic waltzes as well as bombastic Hollywood action. Again, I�ve arranged it like a proper film score.

Machine Robo Rescue is a frolic superhero adventure score in full Williams mode. Japan has a special tendency to employ this type of sound for children�s shows and I hope this practice never fades away. This score just puts a big smile on your face, this kind of musical fun is just absent from modern superhero scores. Shameless optimism and melody and surprisingly lyrical romantic themes galore.

Sword of the Stranger sounds almost like the Japanese answer to a serious Morricone western. Frenetic primal tribal drum action mixed with a single Theme full of tragedy and heroism. It�s earnest film music with one of the greatest �final duel� pieces in anime history.

X was Sato�s anime debut and to this day it has one of the best themes Sato has written. It is pure Japanese melody this time pared with the best of early orchestral Zimmer. Not to mention the symphonic romantic pieces.



Naoki Sato: The Glory of Hollywood



Download (https://mega.nz/#!VE8XTaaA!hJJY_HOIsL2qzSP6uV2rWIHkubSt5mSeLrA_ynsLoBc)

Pricless is perhaps the biggest ensemble Sato ever employed and a symphonic film score par excellence: Piano concerto moments, tone poem antics and glorious Hollywood action. Perhaps Sato at his most refined.

K-20 is a bombastic superhero score straight from from the 80s with the best use of Sato�s trademark choir stabs and superb thematic material. A proper love theme inclusive. It has moments where even Horner would have trouble making it more grandiose than it already is.

Friends: Naki on Monster Island is another epic Hollywood score with more Japanese flavor and a little religious touch. Also featuring a best of from 90s Horner moments.

Ryomaden is right up there with his very best TV scores. Stripped of (almost) all Zimmerism, what remains are over 60 minutes of pure Hollywood glory with sweeping themes and grandiose moments.

Stand By Me truly excels during the adolescence parts. That gentle and fragile piano with those familiar chords pulls straight at your heartstrings. Sweeping romantic themes and symphonic action in combination with upbeat guitar tracks form a sweet little score full of heart.

Rudolph and Ippaiattena is Sato in jolly early 3D movie mode, with his usual grandiose moments but also many playful intermezzi.

Sugihara Chiune deserves special mention for its symphonic character and British sound. It�s a grand pastoral journey. Reflective of the human soul.

The rest all fall under the category of good old Hollywood homages, whether they use Miyagawa�s famous themes or Horner�s Troy. Not the greatest of scores but good standard nonetheless. Some sublime moments in the Drama Collection as well.



Naoki Sato: Serene Beauty



Download (https://mega.nz/#!IVUhhQ6b!YRKBLZblF_LelxXRlpZIx3VULdrkIdI_PxYiVdmmYe8)

The Always trilogy is full of sweeping romantic themes and playful moments. Hints of romantic piano concerto are present as well as some stellar pieces for guitar and orchestra. Perfect for the Holiday season. For Always 2 Sato even arranges Ikufube�s Godzilla theme.

Tsunago will wreck you. Grand romantic Hollywood moments with beautiful string work. Pieces like �Important person� and �Those who are left behind� are just divine. What I would give to hear those moments on the big screen again.

Tegami is Sato at his most intimate. It deeply touches your soul with gentle piano and woodwind pieces.

Carnation is pure good old classic cinema, almost sounds like a British film. Full of frolic adventure, symphonic character and pastoral moments.

Man of Keiseisaimin is one of Sato�s best themes and a love letter to the sound of John Barry. Great stuff.



Naoki Sato: Let�s go crazy!!!



Download ( https://mega.nz/#!dAlnRYpT!-xluRiyW5kDFU4Nr56klNRUENqXttm_m_0IT7rmtRS8)

Kagero no Tsuji: Flamenco Guitar, Body Percussion, Spanish flair� for a samurai movie, of course. I really love this one. Some absolutely beautiful symphonic moments and lyrical themes.

GK9: Gyakkyo nine. This is where the fun truly begins: A hypercharged Hollywood score, a rollercoaster of the very best from the 80s and 90s. Mask of Zorro galore and a piece like �Nine�s dream� doesn�t even hide the fact we�re in deep Americana territory. A score as equally inspirational as it is pure fun. This is what Hollywood used to sound like. No wonder they are so gloomy and grim over there if �Man's ball of indomitable fighting spirit� is not playing in theaters.

Water Boys continues the inspirational fun. Naoki Sato should compose for the Toyko Olympics because no one else can capture the spirit of fun and excitement of sport like he can.

Assassination Classroom continues the craziness with moments of pure Hollywood grandeur and romantic piano pieces mixed with frenetic Jazz and jolly rock and guitar tracks.

Gyrozetter is a return to Pretty Cure level of ridiculous vigor and joy. Jazzy and Synthy with pure Super Sentai badassery. The orchestral parts evoke Machine Robo a little. A fun ride.

The last three are very unusual Sato scores with quirky marches and Jazz and overall strangeness. He can be groovy too if he wants to.

Hybrid & Symbiont are compilations of various drama scores with that particular craziness of epic Hollywood melody and pop beat.




Naoki Sato: Modern Mosaic



Download (https://mega.nz/#!1NcBmRBA!dVwFIuCCNHE5L0JUOM1JbR9FnLPgDmey_Vc5j_1ehDc)

This is Sato embracing the idioms of the modern scoring style and playing the game better than the originators. His classical writing knowledge still shines through: Blood-C is full of romantic string pieces amidst the banging percussion and Tokyo Phoenix has enough classical film score elements to be worthwhile. Lorelei and Umizaru also retain Sato�s excellent big moments. Uplifting moments and blood-pumping themes are still present here and the full orchestra is used. All is still well although I can�t shake off the feeling that for most of them he does not really want to write in this style and only does it for the paycheck. I just don�t get the same feeling I get from Iwasaki, who really takes an interest in Zimmer stuff. Sato always strikes me as a traditionalist who loves the likes of Horner.

So that concludes the rather big collection for a composer who inherited the very essence of the great Hollywood Age. I just hope that in the future he gets his hands on a world-famous orchestra and knocks it out of the park. A Gundam show with classic Sato would be a dream come true for all film score enthusiasts.




Composer Profile: Naoki Sato



Trademark: Hollywood Composer, Master of Big Moments, Horner fanboy

Education: Tōkyō Geijutsu Daigaku

Style: Classical Repertoire, Silver Age Film Score, Zimmer Age Film Score

Similar Western Composer: James Horner, Alan Silvestri, Ennio Morricone






As the (phenomenal) year comes to a close, we�re almost done with my Legacy project. Only two composers remain and I�ve already completed one of them (in fact it was the first one I ever did) so I could do one more before the year comes to a close. Who knows ;)


EDIT: I noticed that the first part was an old version I shared years ago, full of missing tracks and inconsistent quality. I've reuploaded the Pretty Cure collection, now with every orchestral piece and at least 320kbps. I should also note that K-20 and Nagi are rips from my cds. The rest is from various Japanese sites and torrents so I didn't need to rip them all for Part II. As always, if I forgot to credit a contribution let me know.

rogue one recording session music bits have a nice a new hope vibe going on.unmistakably star wars music.

Edit: Ah, found it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6I8-uX07lY

*sigh*

It's like taking a dead goat, drawing John Williams' face on it with crayons and sticking a conductor's baton in its mouth, and saying "Wow, it's John Williams!"

I like the sound and it's wonderful to hear that kind of aesthetic in a modern movie not scored by Williams, but it is completely devoid of substance. A matte painting of 70s Williams hanging from the ceiling, with standard modern Giacchino groaning away behind the canvas. No change in predictions.

Many thanks for pointing this out though - I wouldn't have caught it otherwise. :)

Based on his recent output, I'd rather have Giacchino imitating Williams than Giacchino on his own.

Thanks!

Based on his recent output, I'd rather have Giacchino imitating Williams than Giacchino on his own.

Oh, God, me too, a thousand times over... I just wish we didn't have to pretend that Giacchino is competent because he likes John Williams, or pretend that one of his scores that follows the Williams sound a little closer than usual is anything noteworthy for the same reason.

This is why I was looking forward to a Desplat score - Desplat is an actual composer and he wouldn't plunder the Williams back catalogue in search of a style. He would have written his own score in his own style, perhaps with the occasional nod to Williams for the sake of franchise consistency, but otherwise it was a chance for Desplat to work on a big movie with an unprecedented (in 2016) requirement for something theme-driven and thoroughly symphonic. He can write themes, he can write for the orchestra, and he understands traditional methods of composition. He is a man of taste; musically literate, educated, and erudite. Giacchino is... Giacchino.

The first march part was a little bland. The second part definitely has Williams's orchestration style in mind. I really hope it's a small part of a 10+ minute cue with context. The question is, can this score dethrone Shadows of the Empire as the most Star Warsy score not written by Williams?

The first march part was a little bland. The second part definitely has Williams's orchestration style in mind. I really hope it's a small part of a 10+ minute cue with context. The question is, can this score dethrone Shadows of the Empire as the most Star Warsy score not written by Williams?
i�d say yes, as more and more clips sound like the one you�ve enjoyed.the red carpet premiere soon should have music.as much as i like giacchino, i wish oscar navarro would do a star wars score.there are so many great moments in his orchestral works that would fit into a star wars movie.and harry potter.

[Sleepy-time] ;)

I already read the whole thing and began to type a reply. :laugh:

No worries, I wasn't planning to argue with you. :p

On the short side of my thought, I can never disagree with somebody who'll say most of his film scores can sound a bit bland... but it really puts me at war when considering how well his Medal of Honor scores sounded. Clearly he does his best when imitating Williams (and 'his best' in that case is really, really good).

Well, thank you. :)

The MoH question is a difficult one. It's not anywhere near as great as everyone thinks it is, but it's good and light-years ahead of anything we've heard from Giacchino recently. How can he hit his peak at his virtual debut and get worse as he gets more famous? In 1999, if somebody had said "You know, this guy will end up doing Star Trek, Star Wars, Jurassic Park 4, Planet of the Apes, Mission Impossible, Speed Racer, Spiderman, a ton of prestigious animations, and some big budget original live action for Disney..." would anybody have believed it?

I can only theorise that Giacchino's earlier work was ghost-written (or at the very least subject to an interventionist and intensive proof-reading) by Tim Simonec, who has orchestrated and conducted every(?) major Giacchino score to date since Giacchino himself can do neither.

It is also interesting to note that, besides Simonec, Giacchino's team of orchestrators on Rogue One include Brad Dechter, Mark Gasbarro... and WILLIAM ROSS... Oh, I wonder why... ;)

(How can Giacchino look at himself in the mirror having hired William Ross as an orchestrator on a score that is going to live or die by the quality of its Williams vibe?)

My main question is why isn�t frederic talgorn doing something like this? the guy is basicly how williams was 20 years ago,without ripping him off.and he is still working, doing some stupid cgi peter pan kidshow in france or something.don�t want mcneely, you just get variations of existing scores.debney and kaska will propably get a shot at star wars soon as jon favreau is heavily rumoured for the third star wars story film.(which might be a obi-wan movie)oscar navarro is incredibly successful in spain, but here very few people seem to notice him (which is a shame since he brings the joy of classic hollywood scoring even in his classic works), same goes for marc timon barcelo, who wrote one of the greatest scores in recent memory which nobody knows (witches, its on spotify).i also don�t think david arnold is the right choice.he lost his mojo a while ago.narnia 3 wasn�t nearly as good as it should have been except for a theme or two.
i also wonder who is going to score the han solo film.its from lord and miller who work with mark mothersbough usually but thats not gonna happen.or maybe yes since he is doing thor ragnorok for disney already.

I've always said if you want to sound like Williams, don't try to sound like Williams. Instead, try to sound like who Williams was trying to sound like: Stravinsky, Holst, Walton, Shostakovich, Korngold, Wagner, Ravel etc. A lot of attempts to sound like Williams often miss the mark because they try to sound too much like a cliche film score instead of something that would actually work in a concert hall. Star Wars at its most superficial is marches and fanfares. It actually has its roots in a lot of ballet and symphonic works.

So in my opinion they should give Elliot Goldenthal a crack at Star Wars.

If they don't use the stormtrooper motif, sadly abandoned after A New Hope, I will be severely disappointed.


Some news:

A very fascinating interview with Nic Raine about all things music: In particular his work with Rozsa, Tiomkin, Barry and Goldsmith among other topics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQPrtwzjoT8&sns=em

Evan Call must have made quite an impression because Elements Garden is looking for new talent from overseas. Because of various reasons (least of all I don't speak Japanese) I'm not tempted but everyone who does, has a DAW, Finale(or Sibelius) and knows ProTools (and is willing to do it for the passion and not the money) is good to go: http://www.ariamusic.co.jp/news/20161209140052/

Yoshihiro Ike's epic fantasy saga continues with a preview for SHADOWVERSE (sold on C91): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7smuT5Xmgk

If you weren't sold on Gravity Rush 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWW6m3TR8tc) before, this takes the cake... I didn't really pay attention to the waltz part of the main theme before but this graceful playfulness is just off the charts. I believe this has a very high chance of being one of Tanaka's best scores to date.

Is that Nic Raine interview the one where he says "I'd rather write my own shit than orchestrate somebody else's shit"? :D

Is that Nic Raine interview the one where he says "I'd rather write my own shit than orchestrate somebody else's shit"? :D

Money is money. :laugh:

How depressing that there isn't a single reference to composition, arrangement, or any other musical discipline in that advert. Is that really all you need to become a "composer" these days? A copy of ProTools and a willingness to work long hours for crappy money?

I'm sorry but what? (You have no need to worry just yet)

My translator clearly says "Other general knowledge of music necessary for creating music scores" and "Knowledge of a musical instrument and knowledge of music score notation"

Either way you have to impress the whole staff with your demo tape so I doubt you can get the gig without chops: This is Japan, not modern Hollywood. It is a given that as a media composer over there, especially working for Elements Garden, you will get in contact with a real studio orchestra (however small) eventually and have them perform your music. If you don't know jackshit about the REAL music making and performance, you would embarass everyone. Remember that Evan Call had to work with various studio ensembles and played some instruments (and performed vocals) himself. He was no damn amateur and a gifted musician. I doubt they would settle for a Junkie ;)

Evan Call is a classically trained vocalist and majored in film scoring at Berklee. He knows how to play several instruments and is proficient in three languages. I'm sure they aren't looking for an amateur to replace him. :)

Sweet Jesus, La La Land has some wonderful music. One of the reasons I still have hope for Hollywood. Some people over there still fighting the good fight. I would also recommend Christophe Beck's Trolls. It's not much but real film music (again for a shitty comedy but beggars can't be choosers).

Wow what universe is this? Everyone in this thread agrees that The Last Guardian is a fantastic score. I'm quite impressed too at initial few listens. It is the sort of music that I wish we heard more often. The game I'm not so interested in since it sounds like it has all the elements of Ico that got me to eventually give up and never finish that game. Then again I'm not a fan of puzzles in general so it sounds like the sort of game that would be more fun to watch someone complete on Youtube than to play it myself. I might rent it and breeze through it in a couple of days when I'm done with Final Fantasy XV though.

Also, I had the same initial reaction as Tango to the clips of Giacchino's score to Rogue One. 1) It sounds like standard Giacchino with a bit more of a Williams sound to it. 2) It still doesn't sound like Giacchino has gotten to the point where he can give us themes.

On another side note, I've been enjoying what I am hearing musically from Medici (Netflix Original) by Paolo Buonvino. The opening song, which was written for the show, is emotional and works just as it should. It is also used musically throughout as a motif. Plus there is the main theme for solo strings that is powerful and sticks out. I am not suggesting this is a masterful score by any means but considering the drivel we've had in most of the Netflix Original series lately, it stood out as actually good.

I haven't quite heard anything from The Last Guardian.

I've not heard any of the score either, but I have been planning to on behalf of the tasteful reception shown here, and the appealing circumstance of the London Symphony Orchestra's involvement / performance.

the last guardian sounds ghostwritten by thomas newman.

the last guardian sounds ghostwritten by thomas newman.

Huh? In what way?

Huh? In what way?

it has that ugly depressing thomas newman sound all over it which i personally don�t like one bit.makes me think everyone has cancer.

on the other hand, lalaland is indeed great relaxing fun.

Zelda 30th Anniversary Concert gets a 2CD+DVD release in February: http://vgmdb.net/album/63737

Very unexpected.

Edit: And Michiru Oshima is composing the music for a new film by directed by Masaaki Yuasa, from the creator of The Tatami Galaxy. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmr6VSOW4zU

The Tatami Galaxy isn't one my favorite Oshima scores as whole, but it does contain some lovely pieces like this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkmqBSYLfbc). I can only hope we'll get some nice pieces for this new film.

GREAT NEWS! I wish more Nintendo concerts would come out. Like the Pok�mon one.

Before I get excited about this...

a) Who arranged it?
b) Is Ch@d Sighter (deliberately misspelled to avoid setting off his vanity Google Alerts) or any other third-rate low-budget Giacchino "musicians" involved?
c) Is it going to be just medleys or will there be a genuine attempt to do something new and original with tired old themes?

Before I get excited about this...

a) Who arranged it?
b) Is Ch@d Sighter (deliberately misspelled to avoid setting off his vanity Google Alerts) or any other third-rate low-budget Giacchino "musicians" involved?
c) Is it going to be just medleys or will there be a genuine attempt to do something new and original with tired old themes?
The arrangers don't appear to be the usual suspects. The only person on Twitter that has claimed to be involved is Tomomichi Takeoka.

Here is the program:

Act I
Hyrule Castle
Princess Zelda's Theme
The Wind Waker Medley
Ocarina of Time Medley
Boss Battle Medley
A Link Between Worlds and Tri Force Heroes Medley
Skyward Sword Staff Roll

Act II
30th Anniversary Symphony
Minor Songs Medley
Gerudo Valley
Hyrule Field (Ocarina of Time)
Great Fairy Theme
Twilight Princess Medley
The Legend of Zelda Main Theme

Encore
Kakariko Village
Breath of the Wild Main Theme

The Tatami Galaxy isn't one my favorite Oshima scores as whole, but it does contain some lovely pieces like this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkmqBSYLfbc). I can only hope we'll get some nice pieces for this new film.

I personally think The Tatami Galaxy is one of Oshima's best. It's melodically rich and diverse (even by Oshima's standard) and the first track is delightful in its classical sensibility.

But it's also one of the most awful sounding recordings I've heard so there's that.

Considering it's a 2CD concert, and considering it's based in an actual JAPANESE concert, I'm pretty sure it's not like the 25th Anniversary Symphonies and that dude isn't involved, possibly just japanese guys.

Kirby's 25th Anniversary is next year and Nintendo and HAL are celebrating it!



An orchestra concert will be in Japan in 2017, as a celebration. Will there be a concert CD of that one too? :D

http://nintendoeverything.com/kirby-25th-anniversary-concert-announced-for-japan/

Kirby's 25th Anniversary Orchestra Concert
Should be interesting, depending on the arrangers. I hope Shogo Sakai is involved.

WHAAAT??? :D:D:D

Something I dreamed about years ago. Is Nintendo finally aquiring some sense? *proceeds to sing nothing but Kirby melodies in the shower*

Now Metroid please with Sahashi arranging again and a properly mastered Fire Emblem Orchestra album and I might even buy a Switch if that's what you want.

Seriously, most of Nintendo's music deserves an Orchestra album. I'd like an orchestra album of Star Fox music.. or at least, a complete 2CD of Star Fox Assault's score would serve me right.

The Zelda concert is releasing, thankfully but I'm not very sure about Kirby's..

So, Rogue One is out...

Dear God. It's even worse than I thought it was going to be - and that's saying something.

it has that ugly depressing thomas newman sound all over it which i personally don�t like one bit.makes me think everyone has cancer.

I don't get depressing at all from the score. It has some tension and suspense but depressing is not part of it. I'm usually the first to complain about such scores.

Dear God. It's even worse than I thought it was going to be - and that's saying something. Movie or music?

No hard feelings about Rogue One. If I'm generous there's some decent tracks on the album and some moments not heard often anymore on the big screen. There's even attempts at lyrical writing. But it just ultimately laid bare the fact that competence has nothing to do with film scoring anymore. Nobody is going to confront Giacchino (well other then insult him behind his back), put a gun on his head and say: "Write a theme right now with a melodic line in the sub-bass register with rythmic counterpoint above middle C and structure it like a Chorale. You have five minutes. Otherwise get the fuck out of the stage." But I had hoped to at least hear "Star Wars level" music with much bravado and callbacks to A New Hope, most of all the abandoned Stormtrooper motif. The final result... well it's about what you get when someone who has no clue how to write proper Film music ends up having not enough time to have his orchestrators save his face. I'm now 100% sure Medal of Honor and SWON were elevated by his orchestrators (or ghost writers) and he took the credit. BUT Giacchino already has ZERO respect or reputation among session musicians and *serious* composers anyway so it can't get worse than every professional musician hating your guts because you got the gig because you kissed someones ass:

"Film music in Hollywood today... is in danger. Most composers working today don't have the slightest hint of musical education. Some don't even read music, and they frankly have no business standing in front of an orchestra (...) It's why we don't hear anything approaching the level of art John Williams has been giving us decade after decade."

-Seth McFarlane (on Giacchino)


or in simpler words:

"Fuck that cunt"

- French Horn LA session player


Ultimately I blame Disney for not taking risks and sticking with the odd choice of Desplat who most certainly would have delievered a great symphonic work if not restricted. But it has one positive, it made me appreciate La La Land more. A big studio took RISK and invested in a Golden Age musical in 2016 with a very young composer who writes like it's still Hollywood's glory days. I think its best for everyone if we put our money into bold choices instead of complacency.

I am part way through the score for Rogue One and so far I have heard a few spots where he almost presents a heroic theme and then it cuts short before the full statement is done. It is even more noticeable because those moments are orchestrated like a big thematic statement.

Hmm... ;)

Once again, tango, I already read it all... ;) :p

I'll try to articulate some of my own (unbiased) thoughts on the score sometime later.

I honestly feel fucking depressed reading this thread at points, even though it's clear every argument is valid. To have people with far more knowledge than I can ever have on the subject say that film scores in modern Hollywood is atrocious leaves me sad, especially considering that I have enjoyed some things here and there that the regulars here would deem trash. Maybe I just don't have enough love for it...

It's not you, Hunter. Lots of people in this forum are cynical assholes. :laugh:

Once again, tango, I already read it all... ;) :p

I'll try to articulate some of my own (unbiased) thoughts on the score sometime later.

Hee hee... ;)

I didn't delete it really because I didn't want an argument. It was one of those "post is too messy, I don't want it to stay in its current state, but I'm too tired to fix it right now, so I'll hold it back for now" - but the general concept stands. ;)

I understand that the stuff I write probably sounds almost deliberately antagonistic - particularly to a Giacchino fan - and I truly thank you for (repeatedly) not taking it that way, instead as it's intended.

I talk about such matters in such emotive and uncensored language for two reasons: a) This is probably the only place on the forum where you could get away with it without a fanboy going "Giacchino sucks does he? WELL YOU SUCK YOUR MOTHER'S COCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and b) witnessing essentially the slow and painful death of film music over the last twenty years actually gives me genuine grief reactions. It's an artform that with roots back at the beginnings of dramatic classical music and developed from 19th century grand opera. Good film music isn't just film music; it's good music. Good film composers are good composers just as Shakespeare was a good writer - it's why we're still listening to film scores from fifty years ago and we're still reading Shakespeare. To hear what has become of it today - and that where once upon a time genuinely skilled, musically articulate and educated composers got the gigs, now the gigs go to guys who have no skill whatsoever... It is the death of an artform. It is the end of one of Western culture's most effective methods of storytelling. It is the end of a genre that can turn a movie from a movie into a piece of cinematic magic. We largely understand the human brain but we do not understand what endows it with consciousness; we can only tell a dead person from a living one. In cinema, we know where the consciousness comes from - music - but we have abandoned it because people who only care about fart jokes in movies decided it was too snobbish and elitist to strive for consciousness in films - so we don't any more - we don't care that there is no consciousness; we just paint a face on it, stand back looking at the corpse, and say "Good enough!"

To pour salt into the wound, this thread is about a score in a movie that went above and beyond the call of duty and in doing so, almost certainly contributed to the fact that we're sitting here FORTY YEARS LATER anticipating a new Star Wars movie, when the first was really intended as a bit of Sunday afternoon fun for the kids.

It is the end of a genre which completely defined my childhood.

Everybody loves different things. Everybody has a different idea of what they want from films and what they want from film music. I get that and I respect it - at the same time, to use one of my famous annoying analogies, I wish that people who say "I don't read Shakespeare - I don't really care about that flowery language, I just watch Big Brother" would keep their noses out of the world of Shakespeare. I don't hate them for watching Big Brother. I hate them for pretending Big Brother is Shakespeare, attacking as elitist and old fashioned anyone who dares to point out the obvious differences, and even by their inaction and apathy to higher forms of art contribute to the eventual extinction of that artform.

Because enough people who don't care about proper film music hungrily gobbled down Zimmer, etc, they redefined the benchmark. Because Zimmer is now the standard and Giacchino is the prestige, the people who DO care can no longer look forward to intricate masterworks like the original Star Wars scores. People who don't care one way or another have helped to destroy something that means the world to others.

That's really what I have spend nearly ten years trying to articulate - and why I speak so forcefully and so disrespectfully about some composers. Film music used to be created by artists. Now it is created by fans of those artists; and we discover that loving something intricate does not qualify someone to create something similarly intricate. Giacchino's heart is in the right place, but you cannot get a guy who loves watching Formula One on TV to build the new generation of sophisticated racing cars - you need skilled automotive engineers, designers, and scientists to do that - to go on pushing the envelope. That's Giacchino in a nutshell - he's passionate about cars, he loves cars, and he loves watching racing, and he understands how sophisticated modern racing cars are - but that doesn't mean he can build you a better one. In the best case scenario, you'll get an exact copy of the first one in a different colour. Or you'll get a lashed together Franken-car built by taking ready-made components that are "good" and sticking them together with all the art and sophistication of a child's drawing. That's it - that's where we are.

this time its really strange.while he does not have themes that are expansive like williams does them, this theme starts very promising and its over immediately.i never heard this from him.its like the opening bars of the star wars main title would be the whole thing.incredibly strange.the short motiv that remains is great, but screams for at least a second half.score is pretty good, but god dammit they left the best parts out of the album.bastards.the 3rd act is the best in all of star wars and for some reason the music is suddenly 10times better during those incredible battle scenes.

Thanks for your long reply Tango and well-stated. One thing to keep in mind is that you have multiple ways to define a good score. You could go based on how effective it is in the film, for which most of Giacchino's scores work well enough from the ones I have seen. But then most modern film scoring is effective if by effective you mean creating a certain mood. But there is another level of effective, by which one would expect music that tells us about subtext that exists behind the action on screen. This is where Williams, Goldsmith, and the other greats have generally shined.

I started out listening to film scores simply for the emotional reaction they gave me and I understand the appeal of that sort of writing. But at a certain point you move beyond that and look for something more behind the music, which eventually becomes a need for the music to say something. Star Wars music as written by John Williams says something. Tango has stated before that he has never watched a single Star Wars film and yet he still connected emotionally to the music from the films and the story they tell. If you were to try to do the same with Rogue One, it falls short. And that is the same statement from some who have already gotten to see the film.

To use a gaming analogy, I play Final Fantasy XV and enjoy it for what it is but I still can't help but compare it to those games that came before it and the ways in which it could be even better. If I enjoy something, I can't help but think about just how much more I would enjoy the same thing if it was a masterpiece instead of simply as good as they could get it before they decided it was ready.

Hello!

As a (very) long time lurker and first time poster, I'll begin by thanking every poster in this thread for exposing me to great and beautiful music and very enlightening opinions. Why am I leaving the safety of lurkerdom? Michael Giacchino :) I thought I was alone thinking he was overhyped and that he was more artifice than art, but it's nice to see I was not alone in my more intuitive than reasoned reaction to his work.

I just finished listening to Rogue One and yeah, nothing really stood out other than the John Williams quotes, and it even lacks the texture of his other works. I really think they should have given the score to someone who worked on the additional music for The Old Republic MMO. I'm seeing the movie in a few more hours and I'll be able to see how it works against the action on screen.

Also... one can like things and still recognize their flaws. I enjoy Ramin Djawadi, Hans Zimmer and even Hiroyuki Sawano (and I use them a lot as background for the Dungeons & Dragons games I run for my friends :) )... but I know I like them because they are pretty basic and good to turn my brain off. I still miss the rich depth of Williams, Goldsmith, et al. in current Hollywood releases.

Before I (we) continue to discuss Giacchino any further, before I reply to tango's post, before I talk about anything else, I wanted to say that I think this is one of Christopher Lennertz' most impressive cues. So much to jam in within the short duration, and so exhilarating! http://picosong.com/UUya

And I wanted to give mention to this one, as well: http://picosong.com/UUqn

For this, the theme heard from the beginning to 0:30 is great, I absolutely love it, but there's no further development than its initial appearance, after which it goes to something completely different and suspenseful (not that there's anything wrong with that :p). It's one of the best tunes from the score, and it receives one 30 second run. There's potential for something more there, and while I know that it depends on the composer's intentions, or whatever situation they composed said cue for, this feels a wee-bit like a missed opportunity.

Hello!

As a (very) long time lurker and first time poster, I'll begin by thanking every poster in this thread for exposing me to great and beautiful music and very enlightening opinions. Why am I leaving the safety of lurkerdom? Michael Giacchino :) I thought I was alone thinking he was overhyped and that he was more artifice than art, but it's nice to see I was not alone in my more intuitive than reasoned reaction to his work.

I just finished listening to Rogue One and yeah, nothing really stood out other than the John Williams quotes, and it even lacks the texture of his other works. I really think they should have given the score to someone who worked on the additional music for The Old Republic MMO. I'm seeing the movie in a few more hours and I'll be able to see how it works against the action on screen.

Also... one can like things and still recognize their flaws. I enjoy Ramin Djawadi, Hans Zimmer and even Hiroyuki Sawano (and I use them a lot as background for the Dungeons & Dragons games I run for my friends :) )... but I know I like them because they are pretty basic and good to turn my brain off. I still miss the rich depth of Williams, Goldsmith, et al. in current Hollywood releases.

Well, we've still got Ennio Morricone, John Williams, Elliot Goldenthal, Robert Folk, Danny Elfman, Graeme Revell, Toshiyuki Watanabe, Takayuki Hattori, Christopher Young, Randy Edelman, Toshihiko Sahashi, Yoko Kanno, Kenji Kawai, Shiro Sagisu, Michiru Oshima, Alexandre Desplat, Ko Otani, Yuki Kajiura, John Frizzell, and Akira Senju... although Goldenthal is more of a selective project composer, and Robert Folk has become somewhat elusive as of late. Williams and Morricone are both getting quite old, and they will probably die at some point within the next ten years or so, at which point the last remaining giants of a generation will be gone. Shit.

Still, Goldenthal has talent, but he's also very experimental and some of his works, while quite complex, can be an acquired taste depending on the project. ALIEN 3 was amazing, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was beautiful and haunting, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin were amazing (the music, not the films), and I honestly prefer those scores over Zimmer's music for the Nolan trilogy. Yes, I think that the Joel Schumacher Batman films have better music than the Christopher Nolan Batman films. I am not ashamed to say it.

Elfman can still churn out a good score, but much of his resume nowadays is... not very remarkable. Even his outings with Tim Burton haven't been as memorable as their 80's and 90's works. They aren't bad, but they don't leave the same impression with me that their earlier works together made. This is especially evident with Alice In Wonderland, which should have been a dream come true, but the movie and the music were so... they missed the mark so much that it hurts. Had a younger Burton and Elfman worked on that film, it would have been amazing.

Graeme Revell... I haven't kept track of him, although I absolutely love his scores for Red Planet (2000) and Titan A.E. (2000). His music for the Riddick Films was okay, but... well, I would probably prefer to have Revell score a Star Wars movie over Giacchino, although I would probably prefer anyone who isn't Giacchino, to be honest.

Robert Folk... um, I'm not certain what he's been up to lately, although I know that the man has talent. Even if many of the movies he's worked on can be absolute shit (I'm looking at you, In The Army Now and Lawnmower Man 2), his music is so good that, like Goldsmith before him, he can walk away from a bad project with his dignity intact. If there is one person who could easily replace Williams, it would be Folk. I honestly believe that. I love his scores for A Troll In Central Park, The Neverending Story II, Police Academy (even if it does sound like a rip off of Goldsmith's Patton theme), and the extra work he did for Tremors. I don't believe that Folk has ever composed a bad music score in his career. Perhaps something underwhelming now and then, but never anything that I wouldn't listen to at least twice.

Hans Zimmer... I don't dislike the man, and while I do think that his music can be good, I honestly find him to be extremely overrated, and so much of his "style" for superhero film music has been copied lately that I honestly can't tell the difference between his Man of Steel score and whoever worked on the Supergirl TV score. It's become that generic. I have to go back and listen to Black Rain to remind myself of why people go gaga over him when they hear that he's scoring whatever movie is being made. That's... the only score of his that honestly deserves the praise it's gotten form people. It's a genuinely amazing score, but one masterpiece does not make someone flawless. Even Morricone has had his share of uneven scores, such as Mission To Mars, which on the whole is quite beautiful, but does contain a few themes that just don't sit well with me.

As for Djwadi... I'm apathetic, honestly. I find his music okay, but nothing that I would listen to more than once outside of the movie itself.

Sawano... His scores are all mixed bags for me. I like some parts of them, dislike certain parts, and simply don't care for other parts. I love his theme for Gundam Unicorn, but I find the other action pieces to be lacking in anything noteworthy. His quiet and emotional pieces are beautiful, but they can sometimes feel repetitive if they are variations of certain themes, and depending on how often they're used. His score for Attack On Titan is... mixed. It isn't bad, but not much of it really sticks with me after I'm done listening to it.

John Frizzell... I liked his work on Alien Resurrection and Dante's Peak. But, I haven't kept up with much of his current work, though.

Ko Otani... An action score guy. His music for that Colossus video game is amazing, and his 90's Gamera trilogy music is absolutely astounding. However, his record is a bit uneven, with GMK being a hit and miss, with a memorable main theme, but a heavy reliance on Synth that doesn't exactly age very well.

Randy Edelman... The guy scored Dragonheart (1996). Yeah, his theme for Dragonheart was, for a while, the music used at the academy award ceremonies, even if the score itself didn't win any awards. The man is very talented, and has worked on a variety of different films, from Angels In The Outfield to Anaconda, and Ghostbusters II. He's a decent composer, although his heyday was clearly in the 1990's.

Yuki Kajiura... A bit repetitive, but still a very experimental composer with a long track record. Her scores for the Girls With Guns anime trilogy is some of her standout work, while I haven't been keeping up with her latest projects.

Christopher Young... A very talented composer who, sadly, has not been given the best of projects lately. His Hellraiser scores are his most notable and memorable work, along with A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge. His score for The Fly II is absolutely gorgeous, and his music for the otherwise shoddy and subpar Canadian production Defcon 4 perfectly captures the feeling of a post apocalyptic wasteland. It was also used as stock music in the American edit of Godzilla 1985, which has caused rights disputes ever since New World Pictures went under. The man has a pedigree in horror, but he's fully capable of tackling other genres as well.

Yoko Kanno... I don't need to say anything. Just listen to her music for Escaflowne, Wolf's Rain, Turn A Gundam, Cowboy Bebop, Macross Plus, and Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Listening to those scores will tell you more about this woman's prowess than any words that I can type on this machine. Also, for goodness sake, do not
confuse her with Yoko Ono. They are two different individuals.

Alexandre Desplat... Well, I'm honestly not very familiar with much of his resume outside of Godzilla 2014. He clearly was a better choice for Rogue One than his replacement, though.

Cliff Eidelman... Oh, poor Cliff. He gave us one of the best and darkest Star Trek scores ever made with Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. Now he's scoring films like Because I Told You So. Dear god, what happened to this man's career? Honestly, Eidelman deserves better projects than what he's been working on lately. Unlike Giacchino, Eidelman at least knows how to develop a theme.

Michiru Oshima... This lady can easily surpass most of Hollywood's living composers today. She has the skill and the talent to back it up, as well as a very notable resume. If I were a movie producer and she were available to score my movie, I would hire her in a heartbeat.

Toshiyuki Watanabe... I love this man's output. His scores are beautiful. I love his work on the 90's Mothra trilogy, Space Brothers, and so many others.

Takayuki Hattori... I would view Hattori as a man with skill, but an uneven track record. He clearly knows how to utilize an orchestra, but the problem is that he rarely does so, even when given the opportunity. Because of this, his scores, while fun, are sometimes lacking in the breadth and expanse that could make them larger than life.

Toshihiko Sahashi... I really like his tokusatsu scores. He's worked on several Ultraman shows (including that one American one), The Big O, Full Metal Panic, and more. The guy is very talented, and very resourceful. In all honesty, I think that he would be perfect for a Star Wars or Star Trek movie. Hell, even just a regular action movie would suffice if he were scoring it.

Alan Silvestri... This is a good composer. Sadly, he has not really done anything memorable since the end of the 1990's, where he shined the most with scores for Judge Dredd, The Super Mario Brothers Movie (a score infinitely better than the film itself), and Predator 2 (making him the only person to score more than one film in the Alien/Predator franchise so far). His score for The Abyss is beautiful, and the two Predator scores are both excellent action scores, with Predator 2 being a much more developed and, oddly enough, tribal score than its predecessor. The last film I saw with a score from him was Captain America: The First Avenger. At least he's still getting decent projects.

Akira Senju... I would kind of liken him to a Japanese Elliot Goldenthal, although he's nowhere near as experimental. My comparison is more along the lines of them providing music scores that are better than the films/TV shows that they worked on. Also, they both worked on depressing final acts of certain series early in their careers. Goldenthal had the pessimistic ALIEN 3, and Senju had the needlessly and constantly angsty and depressing Victory Gundam. And both scores are among the best in each composer's career.

Kenji Kawai... The man has talent, and his music can switch between melodic and aggressive at a whim. Although, he tends to work a lot with Mamoru Oshii, meaning that a lot of his music can become melodramatic in tone. He makes it sound good, but it often feels repetitive at times, especially his Panzer Corps scores. They're good, but there isn't too much variation in themes.

Shiro Sagisu... this man has changed his styles a lot over his career. Listen to his work from Macross II: Lovers Again (1992) and compare it to Casshern, or better yet, his recent Berserk scores. His Evangelion and Bleach scores are pretty good... except for those one or two awful rap songs found in Bleach. Sagisu, however, has allowed his more recent style to dominate his scores as of late, however. They're still good, but sometimes it feels like the chorus vocals, which Sagisu has infused into almost every score of his lately, are unnecessary.

Ennio Morricone... I really shouldn't have to say much. The man finally won a well-deserved Oscar for Best Original Score in 2015, for a score that blatantly incorporated themes that he'd already composed for other movies, including John Carpenter's THE THING (which, actually has a lot in common with The Hateful Eight). Morricone has a long a varied career, with at least one Japanese TV score under his belt, and several westerns and horror movies, such as THE THING, ORCA, WHITE DOG, THE EXORCIST II, and others. His rejected score for What Dreams May Come is simply beautiful, and Mission To Mars is absolutely mesmerizing.

John Williams... yeah, he's John Williams. Yes, he is good. Yes, he is one of the last remaining members of his species: Amazingus Composeris Giganticus. He is a dying breed, and he will be sorely missed when he is gone. Does anyone know the secret to immortality? I mean, if we can use it on anyone, it might as well be him. Anyone? Anyone? Okay, never mind.

Giacchino... I like his Star Trek scores, but he is a problematic composer, in that he rarely develops recurring themes. He will reuse motifs and riffs and a manner that can simulate the outline of a theme, but he rarely develops a full theme of its own. His music sounds good while watching the movie, but on its own... um, it really depends on the score. His works are honestly hit and miss for my taste. I like Star Trek 09, but I don't care at all for his Good Dinosaur score, or his Into Darkness score, which is to music composition what Michael Bay is to directing. Zootopia is probably his most experimental score, although that sadly does not translate to memorable, outside of the chase scene pieces, which are tragically brief. He has a fistful of genuinely decent works, but the majority of his resume is... well, you can read anything that Tangotreats has written to understand the true nature of Michael Giacchino's method of "composing." And one more thing, I hate his use of puns in his track titles. It was cute at first, but now it's just annoying.

That Thomas Newman/Last Guardian observation was spot on. Maybe even some James Newton Howard in there. It's a good listen. I'd be interested in knowing if there are specific Newman scores it is referencing, such as The Shawshank Redemption, et al. I see the composer went with that string-heavy sound, which gives it a very modern Hollywood drama feel, but makes the action cues dependent on those incessant string staccatos. This happened in Horner's score to Wolf Totem as well. Overall I don't feel any new ground was reached here, especially due to the lack of strong themes.

Speaking of string staccatos and lack of strong themes, Giacchino's Star Wars is a dud. Somehow even William Ross's orchestration couldn't save it. Giacchino now holds the title of most disappointing film composer ever. How can a composer be given two sci-fi franchises, taking the reigns from composers such as Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, and not produce anything of substance?

The scary part is the next generation of film composers who won't know or even attempt to write thematic content because they've not ever been exposed to it. Also can't forget to mention those dastardly directors/producers who won't even allow old fashioned film scoring in their films because of test screenings or some other bullshit.

As I've said in another thread, what is missing from almost everyone over in Hollywood is a taste for good musical storytelling. The symphonic score is precisely that, a story with notes played by an orchestra. If it's an epic tale, lyrical poetry or sinister thriller depends entirely on your imagination. You can pick almost any Williams track from the original Star Wars and still know where in the story you are because it's structured like a good scene in a film. Cutting movies now left and right and not scoring to picture anymore limits storytelling in a sense but that shouldn't be a problem if you can imagine a story in your mind and what notes are going to represent it. That's the problem with almost all Hollywood composers. They have limited imagination. That's because most don't know or have the right tools to make a good story:

What is a painter without knowledge of colors or brush? What is a poet without knowledge of prose? What is a photographer without knowledge of lenses? Exactly!
The equivalent for a composer is knowledge of notation, composition and orchestration, summarized in "classical education", formed by centuries of applied practices, musical experimentation and invention. It doesn't matter if you learn it in a conservatory or at home, you need to learn this stuff if you want to make competent and worthwhile music. Without that knowledge whatever you're going to say will be very limited and comes across as akward.

As for why Giacchino's themes cut short, it's simply because he's a monkey on a keyboard when it comes to telling a story with music and I'm serious with this observation. Writting a proper theme with A and B part should be second nature to any composer. What takes so long in the scoring process is choosing the right notes that satisfy you and the right melody, counterpoint, background line, chords and voicings AND THEN SOME MORE with deciding how it's played: tempo, dynamics and articulations. But it's not magic. To learn to read music only takes a few weeks with good memory and to write basic functioning music does only take a few months of research (if you're really passionate about the subject) and there's no excuse why a professional composer can't be bothered to look them up. There's tons of stuff on the internet about practical film scoring, some even by people who worked with Williams. You can't tell me Giacchino never bothered to do his research of a Williams score (notation) if he "loves him so much". If I have the score sheets for Star Wars, Raiders and Superman, why doesn't Giacchino?

But to look at the brighter side, symphonic film scoring practices live on big time. I didn't post my Legacy archieves for nothing. For me these "Legacy composers" are the Goldsmiths, Horners and the Williams of our times. You only need to accept a whole lot of shitty recording quality and a whole new world of music opens up to you that is only made possible by global communication.
I only occassionally check Hollywood scores at this point. I always will if it's from an old one I (used) to love or a project done by someone with taste (happens very rarely) or one that seems to have good music (only to be disappointed most of the time). But to be honest I could praise La La Land more if I would think Golden Age quality music in 2016 is a miracle... BUT somewhere in the world there's a new Golden Age happening RIGHT NOW.

If Williams and Morricone die, the greatest living "film" composers will be Joe Hisaishi, Yoko Kanno and Michiru Oshima. And hey, at least Oshima is scoring projects left and right with music on the level of the greatest scores by Rozsa, Rota or Williams. Oshima right now is like having Williams with Spencer in the 80s, pure bliss. And there are many other candidates that are almost on the level of Williams. Give Tanaka, Yamashita and Sato a few more years and opportunity and they will enter the pantheon as well. Not to mention the million of young and younger upstarts and professionals who could enter it at somepoint in their lives. Point is thanks to the internet you now know of a world in stark contrast to the one you used to know. A world where media scoring is taking seriously by people who really put a lot of (intellectual) thought and passion into their musical craft. Take comfort in the fact that the greatest of European and American tradition of orchestral scoring will live on. I'm very happy and satisfied with the music released next week alone for weeks to come: I can hum themes in the shower, be completely wrecked on an emotional and rational level and dive with pleasure into analyzing and transcribing. I feel like a kid again who listened to Star Wars for the first time. It all feels rewarding and worth something.


One thing I would like to add: I would erase the term "old-fashioned" in film scoring from existence if I could. The term is misused. Music from the 1950&60s for example was and will never be in any sense of the word old-fashioned. Every year it is played in concert halls around the world and moves people to tears. It still is music that works! Compositionally and orchestrationally it employed techniques that still work wonders to your music. Rokka no Yuusha (2016) employs the very same principles of composition and orchestration as a film from the 1950s. It works!!!

I don't know why but I'm saving my first listen of the last guardian score til the official co mplete soundtrack is released and shared.

Well, we've still got Ennio Morricone, John Williams, Elliot Goldenthal, Robert Folk, Danny Elfman, Graeme Revell, Toshiyuki Watanabe, Takayuki Hattori, Christopher Young, Randy Edelman, Toshihiko Sahashi, Yoko Kanno, Kenji Kawai, Shiro Sagisu, Michiru Oshima, Alexandre Desplat, Ko Otani, Yuki Kajiura, John Frizzell, and Akira Senju... although Goldenthal is more of a selective project composer, and Robert Folk has become somewhat elusive as of late. Williams and Morricone are both getting quite old, and they will probably die at some point within the next ten years or so, at which point the last remaining giants of a generation will be gone. Shit.

<snip a long list of recommendations :) >

I'm familiar with most of those, but thanks for the others; I'll try to check them out (especially the Japanese composers). Goldenthal does nothing for me in a purely subjective way. I've given him more than one chance but... he simply doesn't tickle my brain. I'm also a Yoko Kanno fanboy since Escaflowne and Macross Plus. I got all the Escaflowne OSTs when importing from Japan to Mexico (where I am :) ) was an exercise in crossed fingers that they would arrive in one piece. I don't enjoy her latest work as much, but hers is still one of my top favorite music to listen to in all genres.

Usually I'm terrible with names until I've enjoyed a certain critical mass of works from the author, and that is what happened with Naoki Sato; I'm just beginning to plumb the depth of his discography and enjoying the hell out of it :)

The quality of discussion generated here is proof that sometimes, being passionate and refusing to mince words can inspire great thought.

I see that even some of Giacchino's most passionate advocates are finding Rogue One underwhelming; if that's not a great big neon sign highlighting how badly this score fails, I don't know what is.

Having had a chance to review yesterday's comments, here is what I originally wrote and deleted:


That's the problem, you got it in one... Somebody who really knows what they're doing has tried to dress up this score with florid orchestrations but unless they actually just write the score themselves (Wiliam Ross as a pencil pusher, Giacchino as the composer - REALLY?!) they cannot disguise inherent problems - inadequate themes, no development, and no structure. The presence of Ross on the orchestrating team is telling; whoever picked him (it could well have been Giacchino himself) did so for a very deliberate reason; they wanted someone with a solid musical ability and history of collaborating with Williams because they realised that those score was going to live or die by the SOUND, not by the content. I am willing to bet the orchestrators held their heads in their hands as they received cues, and had a meeting where somebody said something along the lines of "OK, we have to rescue this - brush up on 70s John Williams orchestral style, listen to all the previous Star Wars scores, because we've got A LOT of work to do."

It makes me think of the episode of Star Trek DS9 "The Magnificent Ferengi" - in it, an inept rescue team accidentally kill a man they were about to use in a prisoner exchange. Knowing that the bad guys will certainly kill them if they discover the man is dead, they decide to try to fool them - they hastily concoct a remote controlled nerve stimulator, with which they are able to walk the corpse into the prisoner exchange.

That's what this score is. It's a dead body being artificially stimulated to look JUST ALIVE ENOUGH to get a difficult job done.

With Giacchino's tendency is to write short motifs, not themes, which either are just a seemingly random collection of notes that don't make any musical sense, or in cases where he is taking the reins of a famous franchise, severely curtailed riffs on existing themes by the previous composer. The end result is obvious and every bit as bad as I feared it would be - come to think of it, I didn't think even Giacchino would so spectacularly fail to deliver on a project as important as Star Wars. (I mean, obviously he was going to fail - but I genuinely thought it might not be as bad as this. I thought we were going to be able to say, at the very least "Of course Giacchino isn't Williams, but he made a bloody good stab at it."

Look at Track 15. The quote of the Star Wars theme is depressing - even bearing in mind the over-simplified nature of the quote - because for that brief 15 seconds, the cue develops a genuine and palpable sense of drive and identity - which completely subsides the moment we go back into Giacchino's original music. Then suddenly it's back to banging and slamming and brass runs that don't run anywhere, rolling timpani, and strings that just repeat the same bar ad nauseum until an awkward key change.

And please, let's not have any excuses like"It was a last minute replacement score, what can you expect?" - this thread must surely know better. Goldenthal's Interview With The Vampire, Danny Elfman's Mission Impossible, Goldsmith's Air Force One, Silvestri's Judge Dredd, Goldsmith's Chinatown, Broughton's Lost In Space (and countless others) were all 11th hour rush jobs and they're mostly excellent, with at least one (Chinatown) recognised almost universally as a genre masterpiece.

Nobody expected Giacchino to be Williams. He didn't have to be. All he had to do was write a reasonably robust score that tells a story, with a few hummable and versatile melodies and glue it together with Star Wars-esque connective tissue. That would've done the trick. It's already been done in his name, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Medal Of Honor was written by the same person who did THIS in Jupter Ascending:

http://kiwi6.com/file/wu68vjhsul

CLONEMASTER - Thank you for posting the Lennertz samples! I am not a big fan of Lennertz, but those samples nonetheless, in my eyes, outshine pretty much every note of Rogue One. If I'd heard Shima Escapes in Rogue One, and the rest of the score was at or around that standard, to be honest, I would've probably given it an overall positive review. That cue is not even a minute long, as you observe, but it packs in so much - there is more interest in that 54 seconds of music than in the whole of Rogue One. Let's look at Lennertz' background - ah, he attended one of the best music schools in the US (Thornton at USC) and studied composition with Elmer Bernstein, and he can conduct and orchestrate his own music.

Rogue One didn't need to reinvent the wheel, and it didn't need to beat Williams at his own game. All it needed to do was to be a pretty good entry in the genre of symphonic film scoring, and have some melodies you could hum.

PieEater: Wow, I didn't think I'd ever see Elliot Goldenthal get a comparison with Akira Senju! Goldenthal, the avant garde concert composer full of angst, dissonance, and gothic darkness - and Senju, the romantic, the traditionalist, the melodist... but I entirely see where you're coming from and I think it's fascinating - particularly bringing up V Gundam, which definitely does have its moments of angst and introspection, also has its share of romance and heroism. Subdued, longing Senju.

I mainly agree with you on every point - if I may add a few of my own thoughts...

Elfman: What the hell happened to him?!

Graeme Revell: I don't really rate him, but even Revell did OK in the big symphonic score genre - Power Rangers continues to impress me, even after more than twenty years.

Robert Folk: One of the most underrated composers to ever put pencil to paper...

Zimmer: Now, this is tricky - I would throw Zimmer into a tank of hungry piranah. But Zimmer the composer... it's not my cup of tea but I actually respect the music. He created a genre - and he does that genre ten times better than any of his clones ever managed. As one of many ways to score a film, Zimmer's technique is completely valid and I'd really look forward to hearing it... but Zimmer's technique has pretty much crushed all the others. Today, you get Zimmer, cheap Zimmer, or Giacchino. Giacchino is who you call when you think "Wouldn't it be nice if John Williams could score my movie, but he costs too much and he's a bit old fashioned - this guy is friendly and seems to sell CDs."

Morricone: Surprisingly, also not my cup of tea... but I respect the man and his music from here to the moon and back. I just cannot connect with it.

Djawadi: Pfftt... )

Sawano: Great at what he does - but I HATE what he does. Giacchino, by comparison - I LOVE what he does, but he's TERRIBLE at doing it.

Frizzell: I think if his career had gone in the right direction, he could've turned into something really special. Sadly, whilst Resurrection was a good score it was a comedown from Goldenthal's prior entry, and every other score he's worked on since has not in any way played to his skills.

Otani: I can't tell if he's a genius or a certifiable nutcase.

Edelman: Talented, underutilised, but I agree - his days are done.

Kajiura: I hate every God-damned note she's written and I think she's possibly the biggest hack composer working in anime.

Young: Stereotyped as the horror guy, I think he's got a bit of Goldenthal in him... he could be truly glorious in the right place at the right time.

Kanno: Stunning, simply stunning, though she's a thief and I'm sure she's a brand not a single person... but one simply cannot argue with the music she writes.

Desplat: The most frustrating composer on your list, for me... I think he could become one of the finest living composers - but he's had so many projects that completely failed for me.

Eidelman: Can you imagine what could've happened to this guy if he's started with Star Trek 6 and continued getting big movies and continued getting better? He was in his mid twenties when he did The Undiscovered Country. Now he's doing nothing bar a few shit comedies every now and again. What a bloody waste.

Oshima: Just glorious, love her to bits, unreservedly.

Watanabe: Also love him, but find him a little uncomplicated - little development, but the music is irresistible.

Hattori: One of the finest orchestrators out there, and one of the most unique and talented composers too... but he barely EVER get to flex his muscles. Another terrible, terrible waste of talent.

Silvestri: Sold out to keep working - I grudgingly understand why he did it, but every time I see his name on a movie I think of the symphonic powerhouse Back To The Future, the sultry jazzy sophistication of Roger Rabbit, the fantasy wonder of The Abyss,
the tuneful and driving electronic Navigator and Delta Force, or the brutal uncompromising Predator... and then I despair.

Kawai: He's really good, but I don't personally like him. Except Avalon, which I utterly utterly ADORE - never has a score so perfectly fit a movie.

Sagisu: Anything of note by Sagisu was written by Amano, so, yeah...

:D

---------- Post added at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

The quality of discussion generated here is proof that sometimes, being passionate and refusing to mince words can inspire great thought.

I see that even some of Giacchino's most passionate advocates are finding Rogue One underwhelming; if that's not a great big neon sign highlighting how badly this score fails, I don't know what is.

Having had a chance to review yesterday's comments, here is what I originally wrote and deleted:


That's the problem, you got it in one... Somebody who really knows what they're doing has tried to dress up this score with florid orchestrations but unless they actually just write the score themselves (Wiliam Ross as a pencil pusher, Giacchino as the composer - REALLY?!) they cannot disguise inherent problems - inadequate themes, no development, and no structure. The presence of Ross on the orchestrating team is telling; whoever picked him (it could well have been Giacchino himself) did so for a very deliberate reason; they wanted someone with a solid musical ability and history of collaborating with Williams because they realised that those score was going to live or die by the SOUND, not by the content. I am willing to bet the orchestrators held their heads in their hands as they received cues, and had a meeting where somebody said something along the lines of "OK, we have to rescue this - brush up on 70s John Williams orchestral style, listen to all the previous Star Wars scores, because we've got A LOT of work to do."

It makes me think of the episode of Star Trek DS9 "The Magnificent Ferengi" - in it, an inept rescue team accidentally kill a man they were about to use in a prisoner exchange. Knowing that the bad guys will certainly kill them if they discover the man is dead, they decide to try to fool them - they hastily concoct a remote controlled nerve stimulator, with which they are able to walk the corpse into the prisoner exchange.

That's what this score is. It's a dead body being artificially stimulated to look JUST ALIVE ENOUGH to get a difficult job done.

With Giacchino's tendency is to write short motifs, not themes, which either are just a seemingly random collection of notes that don't make any musical sense, or in cases where he is taking the reins of a famous franchise, severely curtailed riffs on existing themes by the previous composer. The end result is obvious and every bit as bad as I feared it would be - come to think of it, I didn't think even Giacchino would so spectacularly fail to deliver on a project as important as Star Wars. (I mean, obviously he was going to fail - but I genuinely thought it might not be as bad as this. I thought we were going to be able to say, at the very least "Of course Giacchino isn't Williams, but he made a bloody good stab at it."

Look at Track 15. The quote of the Star Wars theme is depressing - even bearing in mind the over-simplified nature of the quote - because for that brief 15 seconds, the cue develops a genuine and palpable sense of drive and identity - which completely subsides the moment we go back into Giacchino's original music. Then suddenly it's back to banging and slamming and brass runs that don't run anywhere, rolling timpani, and strings that just repeat the same bar ad nauseum until an awkward key change.

And please, let's not have any excuses like"It was a last minute replacement score, what can you expect?" - this thread must surely know better. Goldenthal's Interview With The Vampire, Danny Elfman's Mission Impossible, Goldsmith's Air Force One, Silvestri's Judge Dredd, Goldsmith's Chinatown, Broughton's Lost In Space (and countless others) were all 11th hour rush jobs and they're mostly excellent, with at least one (Chinatown) recognised almost universally as a genre masterpiece.

Nobody expected Giacchino to be Williams. He didn't have to be. All he had to do was write a reasonably robust score that tells a story, with a few hummable and versatile melodies and glue it together with Star Wars-esque connective tissue. That would've done the trick. It's already been done in his name, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Medal Of Honor was written by the same person who did THIS in Jupter Ascending:

http://kiwi6.com/file/wu68vjhsul

CLONEMASTER - Thank you for posting the Lennertz samples! I am not a big fan of Lennertz, but those samples nonetheless, in my eyes, outshine pretty much every note of Rogue One. If I'd heard Shima Escapes in Rogue One, and the rest of the score was at or around that standard, to be honest, I would've probably given it an overall positive review. That cue is not even a minute long, as you observe, but it packs in so much - there is more interest in that 54 seconds of music than in the whole of Rogue One. Let's look at Lennertz' background - ah, he attended one of the best music schools in the US (Thornton at USC) and studied composition with Elmer Bernstein, and he can conduct and orchestrate his own music.

Rogue One didn't need to reinvent the wheel, and it didn't need to beat Williams at his own game. All it needed to do was to be a pretty good entry in the genre of symphonic film scoring, and have some melodies you could hum.

PieEater: Wow, I didn't think I'd ever see Elliot Goldenthal get a comparison with Akira Senju! Goldenthal, the avant garde concert composer full of angst, dissonance, and gothic darkness - and Senju, the romantic, the traditionalist, the melodist... but I entirely see where you're coming from and I think it's fascinating - particularly bringing up V Gundam, which definitely does have its moments of angst and introspection, also has its share of romance and heroism. definitely Senju in a (mostly) bad mood.

I mainly agree with you on every point - if I may add a few of my own thoughts...

Elfman: What the hell happened to him?!

Graeme Revell: I don't really rate him, but even Revell did OK in the big symphonic score genre - Power Rangers continues to impress me, even after more than twenty years.

Robert Folk: One of the most underrated composers to ever put pencil to paper...

Zimmer: Now, this is tricky - I would throw Zimmer into a tank of hungry piranah. But Zimmer the composer... it's not my cup of tea but I actually respect the music. He created a genre - and he does that genre ten times better than any of his clones ever managed. As one of many ways to score a film, Zimmer's technique is completely valid and I'd really look forward to hearing it... but Zimmer's technique has pretty much crushed all the others. Today, you get Zimmer, cheap Zimmer, or Giacchino. Giacchino is who you call when you think "Wouldn't it be nice if John Williams could score my movie, but he costs too much and he's a bit old fashioned - this guy is friendly and seems to sell CDs."

Morricone: Surprisingly, also not my cup of tea... but I respect the man and his music from here to the moon and back. I just cannot connect with it.

Djawadi: Pfftt... )

Sawano: Great at what he does - but I HATE what he does. Giacchino, by comparison - I LOVE what he does, but he's TERRIBLE at doing it.

Frizzell: I think if his career had gone in the right direction, he could've turned into something really special. Sadly, whilst Resurrection was a good score it was a comedown from Goldenthal's prior entry, and every other score he's worked on since has not in any way played to his skills.

Otani: I can't tell if he's a genius or a certifiable nutcase.

Edelman: Talented, underutilised, but I agree - his days are done.

Kajiura: I hate every God-damned note she's written and I think she's possibly the biggest hack composer working in anime.

Young: Stereotyped as the horror guy, I think he's got a bit of Goldenthal in him... he could be truly glorious in the right place at the right time.

Kanno: Stunning, simply stunning, though she's a thief and I'm sure she's a brand not a single person... but one simply cannot argue with the music she writes.

Desplat: The most frustrating composer on your list, for me... I think he could become one of the finest living composers - but he's had so many projects that completely failed for me.

Eidelman: Can you imagine what could've happened to this guy if he's started with Star Trek 6 and continued getting big movies and continued getting better? He was in his mid twenties when he did The Undiscovered Country. Now he's doing nothing bar a few shit comedies every now and again. What a bloody waste.

Oshima: Just glorious, love her to bits, unreservedly.

Watanabe: Also love him, but find him a little uncomplicated - little development, but the music is irresistible.

Hattori: One of the finest orchestrators out there, and one of the most unique and talented composers too... but he barely EVER get to flex his muscles. Another terrible, terrible waste of talent.

Silvestri: Sold out to keep working - I grudgingly understand why he did it, but every time I see his name on a movie I think of the symphonic powerhouse Back To The Future, the sultry jazzy sophistication of Roger Rabbit, the fantasy wonder of The Abyss,
the tuneful and driving electronic Navigator and Delta Force, or the brutal uncompromising Predator... and then I despair.

Kawai: He's really good, but I don't personally like him. Except Avalon, which I utterly utterly ADORE - never has a score so perfectly fit a movie.

Sagisu: Anything of note by Sagisu was written by Amano, so, yeah...

:D

I sometimes wonder how all of you guys can write so effortlessly, when I struggle to make a convincing sentence. Like, here I am, trying to articulate why orchestral music just doesn't seem to grab me as me as much as other styles of music that can be considered similar, yet I'm not happy with what I've written. Maybe it's the years of practice and experience I don't have. Maybe it's just because I don't know how to describe certain things. Maybe it's just life not making me feel particularly great. Even so, I still got a lot.

Tango, you make a pretty damn good impression with all the writing you make. They're probably enough to make a book of sorts.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------


It's already been done in his name, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Medal Of Honor was written by the same person who did THIS in Jupter Ascending:

http://kiwi6.com/file/wu68vjhsul

WHAT? HE WAS ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THAT?

I make the joke sometimes that some scores sound like the composer is banging the keyboard, but this is exactly what that is. Giacchino being forced to come up with one last note minutes before the deadline. It sounds like something I would've done for a cheap student film that never got made.

Morricone: Surprisingly, also not my cup of tea... but I respect the man and his music from here to the moon and back. I just cannot connect with it.

Tua madre era un criceto e tuo padre puzzava di sambuco!


Desplat: The most frustrating composer on your list, for me... I think he could become one of the finest living composers - but he's had so many projects that completely failed for me.

He's become very successful and become quite recognized for nailing a particular "approach"�becoming a brand of sorts, just like Williams and Zimmer�and in the process of becoming a brand scoring the Oscar bait and indie fare that have called upon this "approach", his talent and pedigree have been put into question, the same sort of questioning both Williams and Zimmer have undergone.

Anyone remember the beatings Williams took while headlining the Boston Pops? And Zimmer�love him, hate him or just tolerate him in small doses�has suffered from over-exposure and over-imitation.

Even I'll admit I'm bored to death of all these scores hanging off arpeggio runs, or that other twee approach, the Rota/Elfman plinka-plonka.

But, it's the suits who run the show, not the composer.

I mean, the Giacchino sample was made by trimming a longer cue, but the fact that you can get away with essentially playing one note repeatedly for TWO FULL MINUTES - and be known as the film composer who's big on melody and old-school symphonic gestures, and the stylistically-closest we have to Williams regularly composing film music - is truly stupefying. Now, I know that's not the whole score, and I deliberately chose the worst parts from the worst cue to make a point... but nonetheless, this is a big symphonic score in 2016; BANG! BANG! BANGBANGBANGBANG! BANG! BANG! BANGBANGBANGBANG! - a hundred people all playing the same note again and again and again. This is what the LA session musicians - once upon a time, some of the finest orchestral musicians in the world BAR NONE - have to put up with.


I sometimes wonder how all of you guys can write so effortlessly, when I struggle to make a convincing sentence. Like, here I am, trying to articulate why orchestral music just doesn't seem to grab me as me as much as other styles of music that can be considered similar, yet I'm not happy with what I've written. Maybe it's the years of practice and experience I don't have. Maybe it's just because I don't know how to describe certain things. Maybe it's just life not making me feel particularly great. Even so, I still got a lot.

I'm sure I speak for everybody in the thread when I say... you articulate yourself perfectly - and I really hope you can find the confidence to give your thoughts. I can tell you what *I* think about music and why *I* like music - but the only person qualified to talk about what YOU think is YOU. PLEASE, talk to us! :)


Tango, you make a pretty damn good impression with all the writing you make. They're probably enough to make a book of sorts.

Well, thank you! I shudder to think how much I've typed on this forum over the past ten years - and this forum isn't even where I'm most prolific. I don't know if I have anything particularly valuable to say, though - but I get enough comments come through like that to make me think it's worth going on. For every dozen disparaging "Boring wall of text is boring!" messages I get, I get one of genuine heartfelt gratitude. I don't consider myself special in any way - all I want to do is be a voice for raising standards, and hopefully help people pick their way through this minefield genre. I want people to understand what film music means to me; how good film music can be more than background noise - it can represent a transformative experience, it can provide a whole spectrum of extra facets to the telling of a story, and in some cases it can even tell the story itself - sometimes in a way infinitely more eloquent and moving than by dialogue alone. Once upon a time, writing music for film was genuinely a skilled profession; it was one of the most basic necessities of film making and it could only be done by somebody who speaks the language of music.

I love France, but I can't speak French. Giacchino loves music, but he can't speak music.

Now, the purpose of your average film score is to provide, at best, some basic emotional guidance about a scene - happy, sad, pumped, suspense, romance, whatever - and to fill in uncomfortable silences.

Your average film in 2016 has between twice and three times as much music in it as one from thirty or forty years ago. Films were better, and composers knew that a well-placed silence was powerful in its own right and actually enhanced the value of sections WITH music. Now music is everywhere, all the time.

I'd like to be less visible and less vocal, but I somehow feel that itch - speaking becomes a moral duty whenever I hear someone say "John Williams is like 100, nobody listens to fucking opera any more!" or something similar... However much I'd like to quietly retire from posting and just pop up every now and again to thank somebody for a contribution or post a tidbit of news, when I witness something that I consider defames or fundamentally misunderstands the value of an artform to which I feel an immense personal closeness... well, it has to be done.

:)

Goldenthal does nothing for me in a purely subjective way. I've given him more than one chance but... he simply doesn't tickle my brain. I'm also a Yoko Kanno fanboy since Escaflowne and Macross Plus.

Have you heard Kanno's Sousei no Aquarion? Large parts of it are based on Elliot Goldenthal's score to Titus, particularly BLAQUARION and Exodus. There are even references to Titus in Turn A Gundam.

Sagisu: Anything of note by Sagisu was written by Amano, so, yeah...

:D

I can't believe I forgot to list Masamichi Amano! And, while I'm at it, Tsuneo Imahori, Hayato Matsuo, and David Arnold!

Masamichi Amano... Just listen to his Giant Robo soundtracks. They are... glorious. The man is just amazing. He knows how to utilize an orchestra to its fullest, breathing life into something that could be so much smaller in anyone else's hands. I mean, he made a soundtrack for an anime about a girl's soccer team sound like a symphony concert for a Hollywood Inspirational Sports movie, and better yet, he made it better than most of the scores for movies in that genre, save Rudy and Remember The Titans.

Tsuneo Imahori... I mostly know him from his stand alone work on TRIGUN, but... whenever he works with Yoko Kanno, I can always tell that he's involved, depending on the instrumentation of specific tracks. Listen for the right musical notes and instruments, and you can tell when Imahori is involved in one of Kanno's scores. And, honestly, I love his Trigun scores.

Hayato Matsuo... A composer with a very nice resume, such as GOLDRAN, HELLSING ULTIMATE, the 2005 Guyver anime and, um... well I know about those three scores, and... They're really freaking good. Hayato Matsuo, much like Masamichi Amano, has been known to utilize the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra to its fullest extent, and by the stars and the moon does it show in his Hellsing score.

David Arnold... I love his work from the 1990's, even the 1998 Godzilla film. I actually love the music, even if I think of the film as a bastardization of an icon. It's a decent monster movie, just... it's just not a Godzilla movie. Maybe if it had a different name, I could bring myself to like it more. Anyway, Arnold's actually a pretty solid composer... when he's given something big to work on, like a blockbuster, because dear lord are his scores for summer blockbusters the definition of big, loud, and fun. Stargate is easily one of his best works, Independence Day, while not the greatest, is still better than what it's sequel had for a score, and GODZILLA (1998), is probably one of his most complex scores. While I don't think Arnold's Bond scores are all that much better than Barry or Kamen, I do still find them fun to listen to, and they are pretty exciting at times. I hear that he mostly works in TV music for British shows now. I honestly believe that David Arnold could easily give us a better Star Wars score on an 11th hour schedule than Michael Giacchino when given a whole year.

I also want to mention Mitsuo Hagita, a man who has committed as much plagiarizing as the late James Horner, especially since Hagita plagiarized Horner himself and Jay Chattaway in his soundtrack for Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory! He also plagiarized Jerry Goldsmith's score for Leviathan (1989) in Record of Lodoss War. Yes, Record of Lodoss War is a great score, but holy shit are some of the best pieces actually Jerry Goldsmith tracks from a movie that's basically ALIEN and THE THING underwater. I mean, yeah, it's Goldsmith, but damn, Hagita either had balls of steel or absolutely no shame when he did that. Although, a lot of his original pieces for Lodoss are actually pretty good in their own right, but still... the man gives Horner a run for his money in the plagiarist department.

Am I missing anyone else? Carter Burwell? Did he do the Twilight films? Is he the one who stole a beautiful piece of music from DOG SOLDIERS for that wimpy piece of shit "vampire" movie? I believe that he is. Granted, Burwell is still a pretty good composer, but I don't know if I can forgive him for that. His scores for A Goofy Movie and The Big Lebowski are pretty good, but after hearing that piano melody from Dog Soldiers shamelessly lifted for Twilight, and then claiming it as the lullaby theme for the most boring and suicidally brainless female main character ever written? Sorry, Carter, but you are unclean now. I do not know you or your music anymore. At least when Horner stole music, he made sure to use it for good movies, with interesting protagonists.

I could also list Eric Serra... He's okay, but I think his music works best alongside the movie itself than apart from it. The Fifth Element had a very nice feel to it, but it clearly is meant to work with the visuals rather than by itself. His score for Goldeneye was just... bizarre, for lack of a better word. Not exactly bad and not necessarily good, but somewhere in a gray area that constantly toes the line.

Joe Hisaishi... I haven't listened to much of his work outside of Princess Mononoke and Genesis Climber Mospaeda, but I liked what I heard. The man is very talented, and he clearly knows what he is doing when he writes music.

Vangelis... um, is he still alive? I think he is, right? I liked his work on Bladerunner, and... well, his last work that I heard about what that generic-looking King Arthur movie that came out however few years ago. Apparently, the man doesn't know how to read music sheets, and yet he is still able to score a movie and make it work. Hmm... yeah, I'd rather have this guy working on a Star Wars movie than Giacchino. Actually, I would really only have Giacchino if the schedule is long enough for him to actually develop a complete theme, like, say... ten years? But let's face it, anything longer than a year is almost unheard of in Hollywood these days. Hell, anything even close to a whole year is a rarity these days.

David Newman... I think he's okay. I liked his scores for Critters (1986) and Anastasia (1997), but I haven't really kept tabs on his career since then.

John Carpenter... I know that he's mostly known as a director, but with the exception of THE THING (even then, he still contributed his own work with Alan Howarth), Carpenter has actually scored the vast majority of his own films. He partnered up with the late Shirley Walker for Escape From L.A. and damn was it impressive. He knows how to use synth, and he knows what he likes to hear in his movies. John Carpenter may be old, but he has a solid ear for music. Don't know how much longer he'll still be with us, though.

Harry Manfredini... A highly underrated composer, in my opinion. Yes, most of the Friday The 13th scores are, shall we say, rather simplistic, but if you look at his resume outside of those, the man has a varied career. His scores for House and House 2 are very dynamic and impressive, while his score for Deepstar Six is arguably one of the best works of his career. I actually hunted down and spent over a hundred USD on a physical copy of it in 2015. Yeah, it's that good. Now, of course, his resume is also very hit and miss. Deepstar Six (1988) is majestic and beautiful, while Jason Goes To Hell is easily one of the worst film scores I have ever heard in my life. Hell, it manages to make Giacchino seem like Elmer Bernstein in comparison, and that's not something I would say lightly. So, the man has talent, but he also has a very uneven track record as well.

Brad Fidel... I'm honestly not sure if I should include him, since he actually retired from film scoring in the middle of the 1990's, but... he created the theme of the Terminator, and man did he create the punkest cyberpunk film score ever heard with that movie. I actually think that, main theme aside, Terminator 2 was a step down from the first one for Fidel. Also, for the sake of this list, Fidel is still alive at this time, right? I'm only listing still living composers on this list.

Henry Jackman... I think his score for X-Men First Class was decent, but I honestly cannot remember a single cue from the damn thing. He's just another face in the crowd, in my opinion.

Harry Greggson-Williams... Eh, he's okay. His score for Prometheus was decent, but the standout piece in that was the Goldsmith tribute track, so even then his own work was out-shined by someone else. Much like Jackman, Henry Greggson-Williams' music just tends to fade into the background most of the time.

Marco Beltrami... um, he's... His heart is in the right place when he scores movies, but none of his scores ever actually grab my attention. Well, maybe a few sections of his THING 2011 score managed to stand out here and there, but not consistently enough to make me care about getting a hold of the soundtrack. Maybe one day, he'll surprise me, but ultimately, his music scores are kind of forgettable. His scores for Die Hard 4 and 5 are just sad, and don't even try to evoke the feel of Michael Kamen's scores. Although, Die Hard 5 was a pretty shitty movie in all regards, to be honest. Honestly, if Beltrami were given a chance to go nuts with an orchestra, I think he might be able to make something truly unique and memorable, but most of his projects are those with suits who'd prefer to have him play it safe.

J. Peter Robinson... A pretty good composer. He's worked on Highlander III, additional music for Godzilla 2000, Wes Craven's New Nightmare, that Charmed TV series, and... other stuff, I guess. I haven't seen much work with his name attached to it lately, so I'm not really sure what the guy has been up to since the 2000's. Still, he's worth listening to.

Howard Shore... Yeah, the guy who did the 1986 Mel Brooks production of The Fly is pretty good. I think that his scores for Peter Jackson's Lord Of The Rings adaptation was appropriately epic, although some of it seemed a bit trite in certain areas. His score for Se7en was perfect for the movie, although it doesn't really work that well entirely on its own, at least in my own opinion. On the whole, Shore is a pretty good composer, who really needs to be given a chance to cut loose with something wild to show what he can do. Then again, after working on the Lord Of The Rings and the Unnecessarily Long Hobbit Adaptation, the man could probably use a rest more than anything else.

Alan Menken... I like his Disney scores. I love the Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) score, and his score to Beauty and the Beast (1991). I think that they're two of the best scores ever heard in American animated films from the 1990's. The man is talented, knows how to use an orchestra, and clearly should not be dethroned as the most prolific Disney composer by Michael Giacchino. Menken knows how to develop a theme! When I see his name attached to something, I immediately give it a listen, because the man is that talented.

Harold Faltermeyer... Beverly Hills Cop and The Running Man. Two solid scores from the 1980's, when this man's scoring style was commonplace. I would love to hear that style again in an action movie from the 2010's. Granted, his style is probably dated, and that makes him the closest living analogue to the late Leonard Rosenman. And now no one will reply to this since I have mentioned Rosenman's name, for some reason or another.

Harold Klauser... He's... okay, I guess. His score for AVP actually had some memorable battle music, but aside from that, I really don't remember much else. A lot of his music just sort of fades into the background. His music for ID4 2 was... just unmemorable. It wasn't good enough for me to like it, and it wasn't even bad enough for me to remember it either. That's... that somehow is even worse than any of Giacchino's output. At least I can remember the various pieces from Giacchino's scores.

Kohei Tanaka... A brilliant composer who has worked in a myriad of different genres and mediums. His score for Gunbuster is wonderful, with Beyond The River Of Time always making me tear up. I also adore his score for Diebuster, although his re-arrangement of Beyond The River Of Time (called Take Care Of Yourself here) doesn't quite match the emotional power of the original. It's still a wonderful piece of music, and the man's talent for dramatic and exciting action scores is evident in both Fighter G Gundam and his Gunbuster and Diebuster scores, as well as the 8th MS Team.

John Debney... He's a decent composer, but like many of his contemporaries, his heyday was back in the 1990's and early 2000's, when film scores were more dynamic. His score for Predators, while nice, is really just a tribute to Alan Silvestri's scores, and I'm not certain that I would qualify it as his own style. His score for G-Savior is... meh. The only noteworthy track on that score was actually created by Yoshihiro Ike as an additional piece for the Japanese TV version of the film. Perhaps Debney's best score is for 1999's Komodo, which is a musical descendant of his score for The Relic, although it easily stands out as one of Debney's best efforts, despite being somewhat obscure.

John Ottman... I haven't really paid much attention to his works, aside from his X-Men scores, and while his main title themes are wonderful, the rest of the scores tend to just fade into the background, at least in his latest efforts. Also of note, his main title X-Men theme, heard in X2, is a modified version of Michael Kamen's X-Men theme from the first movie, so essentially, the piece of music that everyone loves was not created by Ottman, only modified. Granted, Kamen's theme borrows heavily from the TV series theme, but no one ever seems to mention Kamen's contributions when they talk about X-Men scores.

James Newton Howard... The man is pretty solid. He isn't Williams or Morricone, but he's still well above Giacchino and Klauser in terms of talent.

Woah, are we listing every composer alive :D

Joe Hisaishi: I thought I didn't need to make a Legacy collection since he has his own fanboard like Williams but now I'm sure it has to be done. Hisaishi is one of the greatest composers of the 21st century. His film and television work some of the best ever written. Better start with one of the greatest concerts of this century: Hisaishi in Budokan: I'll admit the very first movement completely destroyed me the first time, listening on a Hifi setup. But here's a taste from the master:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4LrW5f4dyc&t=00m25s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hstbdf-vOo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5G3DVo-rvM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5BP57OHwYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzXJMFlh3iM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9L-QzakeiM

and his most impressive composition for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70_5D0uBxNo


James Newton Howard: He was so amazing in ages past, his Wyatt Earp score is a masterpiece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPTU_L_C3P4 I also love his Atlantis, a classic adventure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDVDUKLhc3A&list=PLED2CE67F176DEF30

David Newman: Underrated and underused in my opinion. He did the greatest parody score ever scored (unironically one of the greatest SciFi films ever made): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFdTgHBnlxM&t=01m04s and one of the greatest comedy scores ever with the largest studio orchestra ever assembled for one of the stupidest movies ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLYTcLpB0ys

Wow, films were so Japanese back then................. *despair*

I'm surprised nobody's spoken of Basil Poledouris - for me, he's right up there with Goldsmith. It's a crying shame that that he only really enjoyed about fifteen years in the limelight (the late 1970s through to the early to mid 1990s) and even more painful to note that cancer took him from us in 2006, aged only 61, right in the midst of his plans to restart his film scoring career and storm back onto the scene to show "those guys how it's done" - to imagine what could have been... A musical genius, a superlative storyteller, and by all accounts, a wonderful human being too.

I'm also surprised that in talking about David Newman, Vinphonic has neglected to mention perhaps Newman's finest score - at least, from a musical perspective - and probably the only example of a Western film that chose to record its score in Japan (with the New Japan Philharmonic) instead of vice versa. It's one of Newman's earliest (there are earlier, but arguably this was the score with which he truly "arrived") - it's imaginative, deliciously orchestrated (more like a concert work than a film score), thematic, and firmly in the "old Newman" style I miss so much; sometimes powerfully dissonant, impressionistic, and as harmonically colourful as a Wagner opera. It's orchestrated like a concert work. The recording quality is a little inadequate at times, but somehow it adds to the presence and power. What score am I talking about? The Brave Little Toaster. Yes, really. If you haven't heard it, listen to this short suite and marvel at the fact that thirty years ago, cheap cartoons could get scores like this, and now nothing at all can get scores like this.

David Newman - The Brave Little Toaster (suite - 17:06) - Streaming MP3 - http://kiwi6.com/file/8ld1xdfe3q
FLAC Download - http://kiwi6.com/file/v84vjjtijv

The film, like Newman's score, goes to places you would never expect from the title; on the surface it's a happy little animated adventure about a group of talking household appliances who go on a big adventure... but it has a scope far, far wider than that. It veers into existentialism more than once, and deals with loss, loneliness, friendship, maturity, the value of experience... and it does so with a poetic grace that puts a lot of live action to shame. The "flower scene" is still cited today as an example of the power of cinema. The film also explores powerful and complex issues like suicide, cruelty, depression, sacrifice, fear of hurting those you love, fear of love itself, and acceptance of death (in three ways - graceful, desperate, and despondent).

Good lord, I love that film... and I love David Newman's score. This is what cinema is about for me, and what film music can do for a film.

There are some good Silvestri scores in the 2000s:

The Mummy Returns
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life
Van Helsing
Beowulf

Not perfect, but solid efforts.




That Giacchino action cue compilation is hilarious. All you have to do is compare with a similar cue by Horner to get a sense of the chasm between the two in terms of skill. Both use taiko drums to represent a primal battle, but one has musicality, the other is just a backdrop of noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6h8Pg7tShQ




How come no one has mentioned Kaoru Wada? Yes, all of his scores sound the same, but he can write some great themes. I'll never get tired of Kirara's theme from Samurai 7, and it's a damn shame there is so much music left unreleased: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHAZqxzdCvA

The way he layers wind instruments and writes counter melodies has really stuck with me in my own orchestrations. Also, I love those ambiguous endings using the bII chord (pronounced "flat two chord"). I've analysed a lot of Wada's music and he likes to write in minor keys, such as A minor in Kirara's theme, but throws in Bb major to give it that traditional pentatonic Japanese sound, also known as the "In scale" which you can read more about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_scale

So yeah, I'm a Wada fan.

I'm surprised nobody's spoken of Basil Poledouris - for me, he's right up there with Goldsmith. It's a crying shame that that he only really enjoyed about fifteen years in the limelight (the late 1970s through to the early to mid 1990s) and even more painful to note that cancer took him from us in 2006, aged only 61, right in the midst of his plans to restart his film scoring career and storm back onto the scene to show "those guys how it's done" - to imagine what could have been... A musical genius, a superlative storyteller, and by all accounts, a wonderful human being too.

I'm also surprised that in talking about David Newman, Vinphonic has neglected to mention perhaps Newman's finest score - at least, from a musical perspective - and probably the only example of a Western film that chose to record its score in Japan (with the New Japan Philharmonic) instead of vice versa. It's one of Newman's earliest (there are earlier, but arguably this was the score with which he truly "arrived") - it's imaginative, deliciously orchestrated (more like a concert work than a film score), thematic, and firmly in the "old Newman" style I miss so much; sometimes powerfully dissonant, impressionistic, and as harmonically colourful as a Wagner opera. It's orchestrated like a concert work. The recording quality is a little inadequate at times, but somehow it adds to the presence and power. What score am I talking about? The Brave Little Toaster. Yes, really. If you haven't heard it, listen to this short suite and marvel at the fact that thirty years ago, cheap cartoons could get scores like this, and now nothing at all can get scores like this.

David Newman - The Brave Little Toaster (suite - 17:06) - Streaming MP3 - http://kiwi6.com/file/8ld1xdfe3q
FLAC Download - http://kiwi6.com/file/v84vjjtijv

The film, like Newman's score, goes to places you would never expect from the title; on the surface it's a happy little animated adventure about a group of talking household appliances who go on a big adventure... but it has a scope far, far wider than that. It veers into existentialism more than once, and deals with loss, loneliness, friendship, maturity, the value of experience... and it does so with a poetic grace that puts a lot of live action to shame. The "flower scene" is still cited today as an example of the power of cinema. The film also explores powerful and complex issues like suicide, cruelty, depression, sacrifice, fear of hurting those you love, fear of love itself, and acceptance of death (in three ways - graceful, desperate, and despondent).

Good lord, I love that film... and I love David Newman's score. This is what cinema is about for me, and what film music can do for a film.

Wait, that was David Newman? I loved that movie as a child! Also, if somebody wants to start a list of dead composers who we all miss, I would be more than glad to discuss the works of Basil Poledouris. His themes for ROBOCOP, Conan the Barbarian, and The Hunt For Red October are brilliant.

Of course, I'd also love to discuss Leonard Rosenman, seeing how he pioneered several techniques used in modern film scoring, but no one ever really wants to talk about him. Shame, really. Make a comment that laments the loss of older composers, and I will gladly create a reply comment that lists all of the dead ones who shaped our childhoods and lives.