Just a question: where can one download that kind of clean HQ orchestra instruments samples?


As for getting the samples, sadly they're extremely expensive...one generally collects them over time, building a collection slowly and getting to really know each library very well before adding the next.

Given the size of them, I doubt you'd be downloading them either...

Correct, although some of the more niche samples that only feature a few instruments that are sampled more in detail do tend to be offered for digital delivery because they're more compacy. Most all of the major libraries are shipped either on DVD or, more recently, even on harddrive directly.

Colin, keep that guy handy, he's good!

True, true... speaking of niche and small downloadable instruments, there's one particular place I go to. Some guy recording and making his own kontakt libraries. http://0on3.wordpress.com/ Maybe you'll find it useful, the quality is actually not bad!


All of what you hear is run entirely from one Mac Pro (I hate slave machines) running Logic 8 with 7 or so instances of Kontakt 4 for this template....each hosting a pretty ridiculous collection of libraries, as is usually the case. Some EWQLSO, LASS, TH, custom stuff, etc etc.


A Mac eh? I hear that they're better and more suited to creative media production, but my own experience with them has bee less than... satisfactory \: although speaking of slave machines, one has to wonder how much electricity and money it takes to keep a good number of them running. Not a funny bit of money, I'd imagine.

I use the EWQLSO stuff myself, it's great (but I find the samples a little bit "stiff") and I'd like to mix and match it up with some of the VSL things too, which are unfortunately quite ridiculously expensive. I don't recognise TH though; what's that? On a related note, I still see GPO being mentioned now and then. A good library... for a few years ago I think, it sounds quite dated now...

Colin, keep that guy handy, he's good!

Haha, yes, I've got an upcoming project where he will also be playing the guitar parts.
If you're interested I can upload those pieces, but this will take a while because the score is far from finished. Next month is the deadline.

Sibelius Theatre Music
Scottish Chamber Orchestra
Includes Pelleas and Melisandre; Belshazzar's Feast; and The Tempest Suite
|MP3 VBR V0|Converted from Lossless|

Download (http://rapidshare.com/files/395368343/Sib-TM.rar)
PSW: smile

It just so happened, in a discussion of The Last Airbender, someone said "well I can't enjoy this as much because I've been listening to Sibelius lately" and of course I thought "hmm I haven't heard any Sibelius" so the best thing to do was go find some and listen! And what a fantastic listen this is!

I have to admit, despite all the praise given for Shostakovich, I find most of his music terribly difficult to enjoy because it is so complex it lacks the simple melodies I enjoy and the music doesn't really grab me (at least not yet). But this is an instantly beautiful set of music that everyone should check out even if you think you won't like Classical if you enjoy the orchestral pieces posted here.

Seriously Sibelius
|MP3 VBR V-0|Converted from Lossless|

Download (http://rapidshare.com/files/395374082/SerSib.rar)
PSW: smile

Comments may come later

A Mac eh? I hear that they're better and more suited to creative media production, but my own experience with them has bee less than... satisfactory \: although speaking of slave machines, one has to wonder how much electricity and money it takes to keep a good number of them running. Not a funny bit of money, I'd imagine.

The only reason to use a Mac with music composition is when you're working heavily with video and video editing. Or if you're obsessed with filtering the hell out of something (i.e. everything on the radio today, i.e. not actually composing music). There really is no other reason to do so. A PC works extremely well, no matter what you hear otherwise, and this is coming from years of experience working with both. And yes, I am a professional composer whose work has been posted here before.

EWQSL is good if you're not actually intending to use it in a finished product. If you're composing a piece for performance and just want to get an idea of the sound it generally will work rather well, although the Woodwinds I find to be a bit subpar, as well as the Horns. The rest of the Brass section is pretty good. GPO is a good alternative for this if you can't afford anything better. For the price it really is pretty good and with some work it can be made to sound fairly decent. The good thing about GPO is it mixes well with other libraries, especially percussion libraries like VDL2, which incidentally enough Finale ships a sample of both with it now.

Also don't be fooled, if you're the... um... "non-paying" type, you absolutely can find and download even the most expensive of sound libraries available if you know where to look, and don't mind downloading dozens of GB of data.

Ahhhh I love Sibelius, thank you very much! I mostly just have endless performances of his symphonies (like 4 different recordings xD) so it's nice to have something else too! :D

Tomorrow, I shall post a rip of a game with a fantastic orchestral score in the Asian tradition.

The game was released in early May.

It is an expansion to an online game that has a lot of bumps on the road.

That is all of the hints you will get! :)

Luigi Boccherini
Pepe Romero and Academy of St. Martin in the Field Chamber Orchestra
Quintets for Guitar and String (disc 1)
The Guitar Quintets Including 'La Ritirata Di Madrid' and 'Fandango'(Disc 2)
|MP3|VBR V0|Converted from Lossless|

Download Part 1 (http://rapidshare.com/files/395427770/Bocc-GuQt.part1.rar)
Download Part 2 (http://rapidshare.com/files/395431051/Bocc-GuQt.part2.rar)
PSW: smile

A PC works extremely well, no matter what you hear otherwise, and this is coming from years of experience working with both. And yes, I am a professional composer whose work has been posted here before.

Indeed. I've always been happy using my PC setup, and it's always worked for me. I dunno, but, in my own experience Mac users seem pretty aggressive when it comes to what you're using. "YOU'RE USING A PC? WHY!? THEY SUCK, MACS ARE WAY BETTER! WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED, JUST GO AND TRY ONE! WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DID? HMPH! YOU MUST JUST BE AN ELITIST PC USER! YOU'LL NEVER BE A GOOD COMPOSER USING A PC!" /rant


EWQSL is good if you're not actually intending to use it in a finished product. If you're composing a piece for performance and just want to get an idea of the sound it generally will work rather well, although the Woodwinds I find to be a bit subpar, as well as the Horns. The rest of the Brass section is pretty good. GPO is a good alternative for this if you can't afford anything better. For the price it really is pretty good and with some work it can be made to sound fairly decent. The good thing about GPO is it mixes well with other libraries, especially percussion libraries like VDL2, which incidentally enough Finale ships a sample of both with it now.


Really? I find the woodwinds and brass to be quite good, generally. To me it's the Oboe and Trombones that seem subpar, but only slightly. I use EWQL as the basis of my template and then "beef" it up with other libraries. GPO really is quite good for the price, but it just sounds slightly flat to me. Although I guess that is because it can be tweaked quite a bit.

So who here prefers piano roll to staff notation?

*raises hand*

Streich: Is that a trick question? ;)

Bit of an interesting one for you today... Some samples of Alan Silvestri's A Team score have surfaced in an unlikely place... A behind the scenes promotional video turned up, which had all the dialogue and effects on the left channel, and about ten minutes of uninterrupted score tracks on the left.

I have removed the audio from the video, separated the right channel, cleaned up the sound, and repacked the cues into a RAR for your pleasure.

It seems to be a step ahead of GI Joe - Hater will love this one. Particularly the showpiece cue of this selection - a five minute, entirely orchestral action cue completely unencumbered by modern scoring trends...

There are five tracks.

Sound quality is pretty poor, as you might expect - but it's quite listenable and gives a nice preview of what's to come.

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/E7DVQ7SP/AS-TATSAMPLER.rar

Streich: Is that a trick question? ;)

That depends on the answers I get.

AGE OF CONAN: HYBORIAN ADVENTURES - THE RISE OF THE GODSLAYER



DOWNLOAD (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6PBXJGRA)

Here is what I was hinting at yesterday. A few months ago (January?) I posted my rip of the original game. It was 113 files long. This one is not nearly as large, numbering at just 23. That is to be expected, considering that this not a full fledged game, but an expansion pack.

But they say that it is quality, not quantity, that we are looking for. Haugen has returned to score the expansion pack, but you certainly wouldn't know it. The original game has a very chorus heavy score - not dominant, but there were enough tracks with vocal elements to warrant the comment. Godslayer is completely absent of vocals of any kind. It is 100% an orchestral score.

Haugen, despite being Norweigan, uses a rich library of Asian elements for his score. It is absolutely European in attitude, but undeniably Asian, almost Japanese in mood and instruments. In Godslayer Haugen juxtaposes between eastern and western instruments, and he does so seamlessly and in a brilliant manner. Most of the score is either dominant in western or eastern instruments, but in tracks such as "Death of Gods" he interchanges between them wistfully and in an inspiring manner.

This is a great score! It's relevance to it being videogame related is irrelevant - this is something to the caliber of a bombastic film score.

Fascinating! Great to hear real musicians involved... The original was all synth, wasn't it?

This is the City of Prague Philharmonic, conducted by Adam Klemens.

Most of it is a bit ambient for me; and those damn banging drums... although they're well done I guess I'm predisposed to hate the sound because it's so overdone in Hollywood (and with considerably less talent than here.)

But there are some glorious moments... Haugen has chops.

Thanks so much for uploading this score, which I would have completely overlooked had it not been upon your recommendation and posted inside this thread. :)

So who here prefers piano roll to staff notation?

*raises hand*

OK, I'll bite.

For the initial composition stage, I tend to prefer piano roll; notation is lumping in every aspect of the music in together, but with piano roll layout I am able to concentrate on the notes - in an intuitive, clear, concise layout, without drowning in key signatures, flats, clefs, and dynamics markers.

Just to keep my brain ticking over, I try to write something the right way - on manuscript paper (or in Finale straight in to notation,) sitting at a piano. I'm not ashamed to say it's an uphill struggle but it keeps the grey matter moving so it's certainly worth doing.

But for straightforward composition, give me a piano roll layout any day of the week... Unless you want three seconds of completed music per week!

So who here prefers piano roll to staff notation?

*raises hand*

I write everything in notes. When the pieces are finished I make sure as many intruments as possible will be played by real musicians, or played on a keyboard. After that I import the midi in a program with piano roll, and use it a bit for minor adjustments. That's the only thing I use pianoroll for.

Fascinating! Great to hear real musicians involved... The original was all synth, wasn't it?

...WHAT? Tango, have you been smoking something when we haven't been looking? The Age of Conan score was not completely synth. In fact, I'd dare to say that the majority of the score was done by a real, breathing orchestra.


This is the City of Prague Philharmonic, conducted by Adam Klemens.

I didn't know that - where did you get this info?


Most of it is a bit ambient for me; and those damn banging drums... although they're well done I guess I'm predisposed to hate the sound because it's so overdone in Hollywood (and with considerably less talent than here.)

But the drums are so much fun, how can you hate it? Yeah, they are the Asian's four note danger theme, but Haugen uses them so well you can't blame him for doing so.


But there are some glorious moments... Haugen has chops.

I'd dare to agree. This man deserves to score the next Conan movie.


Thanks so much for uploading this score, which I would have completely overlooked had it not been upon your recommendation and posted inside this thread. :)

Hey, I need to post something every now and then, or else I have no point here. :P

Comign eventually...DANTE'S INFERNO EXPANDED.

God help me, 200+ files of nothing but "982082200 FMX 01". There is not a single hint as to what they actually contain. I need to listen to them to know what they are.

Good grief!

WHAT? Tango, have you been smoking something when we haven't been looking? The Age of Conan score was not completely synth. In fact, I'd dare to say that the majority of the score was done by a real, breathing orchestra.

What? My hands... they're like... huge...

No orchestra there. I just checked. Real people playing solo parts to sweeten the synth, but no orchestra.


I didn't know that - where did you get this info?

I found the booklet for this album. :)

http://www.musiconline.no/booklets/39836.pdf

Comign eventually...DANTE'S INFERNO EXPANDED.
<3

That is all.

http://www.musiconline.no/booklets/39836.pdf

There's an actual soundtrack that was released?! What?

EDIT: I can't seem to find any mention of it anywhere but on the site where the .pdf is stores, and it's currency price is...something not American or Euro. :P I would imagine the score would be out by now, since it's been a month since the expansion was released.

EDIT 2: I did some more digging, and there is a site that has it up. GRAPPA records. Alas, it will cost me 30 American for me to get the CD.

Or I can just go to iTunes and get it for $10. :< Damn me and my desire for the physical product!

*runs away*

Thanks for this Conan score. I don't know how I could possibly want more Dante's Inferno music. There is already a ton of it on the digital version.

*runs away*

What did I say? Was it the fangs?

Great Sibelius post-always liked his symphonies and Finlandia-soaring music of the mountains and his native country-thanks Sirusjr

But where oh where is Broken Blossoms? Intolerance, Thief of Bagdad, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? With any luck some thoughtful soul will see to it on Blu.

Something tells me I'll be returning to both of these often! More comments later :)

Here you go with some great Carl Davis compositions for Silent Movies:

THIEF OF BAGDAD
27 tracks - 150 min - 192 kbps - 203MB
Part 1 track 01-14 : http://sharebee.com/cd67d289
Part 1 track 15-27 : http://sharebee.com/668083c3

THE FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE
25 tracks - 132 min - 192 kbps - 189 MB
http://massmirror.com/e1e53409d1f182dec46b31c60be18c18.html

BROKEN BLOSSOMS
16 tracks - 90 min - 192 kbps - 124 MB
http://massmirror.com/11d1e9186d7bbc2fc5041bea71a14b23.html

THE GENERAL (Buster Keaton)
14 tracks - 76 min - 192 kbps - 104mb
http://sharebee.com/444accbf

SPEEDY (Harold Lloyd)
86 min - 12 tracks - 192 kbps - 122 mb
http://sharebee.com/9f8a227d

THE KID BROTHER (Harold Lloyd)
82 min - 08 tracks - 192 kbps - 111 mb
http://sharebee.com/3238194b

SAFTEY LAST (Harold Lloyd)
73 min - 10 tracks - 192 kbps - 103 mb
http://sharebee.com/391d9a39

Unable to find Carl Davis' complete Version of Intolerance by now...but maybe the CD-Release will be fine:
22 tracks 75 min
Part 1 : http://sharebee.com/c5a4aefb
Part 2 : http://sharebee.com/55587548

all scores ripped by me
enjoy

AGE OF CONAN: HYBORIAN ADVENTURES - THE RISE OF THE GODSLAYER

What a great piece of music (although indeed a bit "ambientic")! Really good thing, and live orchestra is... well, live. Also good taiko drum isn't bad... 'cause it's good;). Thanks for this one.


I don't know how I could possibly want more Dante's Inferno music. There is already a ton of it on the digital version.

While it's fantastic score, I must agree that official release is more than enough.

He's a a real hero to me on this front. His score for Gance's Napoleon (STILL in distribution rights Hell thanks to the megalomania of Ford Coppola!) is absolutely sublime and IMO trounces Honegger's original.


Do you have the complete Honegger-Score to Napoleon?
I recently got a copy with the Davis-Version (over 5 hours)
Thanks

Speaking of Napoleon, isn't there a game called Napoleon: Total War
I believe the music in the trailers was promising and less generic than in Empire so I wonder if there is a gamerip or soundtrack available.
Here are two samples:

(Main Theme)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKz0WHQaaJE

(Naval Battle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epo3y7lM3F4&feature=related

1st, as usual, thanks a lot for the great music posted lately, mates!



This thread should never be buried so deep!

I hate to bump it with a plug of my own stuff, but for lack of anything else to share I've got an offering of two small tracks from this week that I basically put together to test out some new instruments. Hopefully those of you who are fans of film-y orchestral work (or who are familiar with my stuff) will find something to enjoy. I'm channeling my inner John Powell a bit with both of these. :)

Discovering the Plateau (http://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/discovering-the-plateau)
Clashing Cultures (http://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/clashing-cultures)

Very nice! The 2nd part of track 1 is impressive, with its choir that takes you by surprise. Also your tools are frankly excellent, way more than some years ago, when I used to be in technical sound stuff. The only critcism I could express, as I already did, is the fact that these pieces sound too much like trailer music, they're too short, and the good ideas they're made off are under-exploited. You'll do a serious step forward when you'll start making some 4-5 minute pieces, cleverly developing a central theme or motif. If you're courageous enough you can attempt a whole 10-15 minute symphonic suite or tone poem, and if you're crazy you can try to write a full symphonic score on your own, with multiple themes and motifs! - like Streich's Malta (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1457448&postcount=4721) or Crusader.



Bit of an interesting one for you today... Some samples of Alan Silvestri's A Team score have surfaced in an unlikely place... A behind the scenes promotional video turned up, which had all the dialogue and effects on the left channel, and about ten minutes of uninterrupted score tracks on the left.

I have removed the audio from the video, separated the right channel, cleaned up the sound, and repacked the cues into a RAR for your pleasure.

It seems to be a step ahead of GI Joe - Hater will love this one. Particularly the showpiece cue of this selection - a five minute, entirely orchestral action cue completely unencumbered by modern scoring trends...

Interesting. 1st I have to say that I'm no big fan of Silvestri's G.I.Joe, with its Matrix Reloaded wannabe tendencies, and its simplistic main theme. In A-Team's case, they seem to have taken back exactly the original theme of the series (which is quite a good theme, let's admit). The 5-minute action piece you posted is pretty cool, Silvestri is back in brass overload mode, and delivers here some good, old-school, exciting orchestral action (maybe because it was a 80's show?).



Hey there! Finally I decided to do a thing, that I wanted to do for some time, but I never... did. So, as I said somewhere, I write music a bit. No education, no knowledge, almost deaf (;)), yet I decided to make music writing my little hobby. So, I wanna share with you few of my... creations. They are far from perfection, not very complex, I'm shitty when it comes to mastering (even worse than when it comes to composition), but I think there is a chance, that some crazy dude (or "dudess";)) will like 'em. Samples that I use are far from being great though... my skills too. Still tell me what U think, be harsh as sandpaper. I'm not gonna stop it anyways;). So enjoy. Or not.


Beware!


30 minutes+ of my own music


Magical Megaupload Link

\/

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KT7G6L6Y

Sorry for the delay, I listened to these indeed, and 1st, I have to thank you for sharing your music with us. You should have put the tracklist though.

Now, about the music itself, I's sometimes a bit... puzzling. There are often some nice parts, some cool orchestrations, some really good ideas, but then, at times, it becomes somewhat hard to understand, because of odd chords or melodies.

But you have some nice equipment, which often sounds very good: "(Bonus) Alien Behind You" is almost professional in this respect, and could easily be used directly in any alien invasion scene.

"Underwater Adventure" has some delightful glorious accents, the "underwater" nature is well rendered with clever orchestrations, notably thanks to these high strings ostinati in the BG.

"Winter fantasia" is probably my favorite piece, since it fits my current mood most. This is a very delicate, serene and eventually lovely piece.

"Welcome to Disturbingville" has got an excellent development, starting with subtle harps and woodwinds, then progressively climbing into madness, notably with weird voices and elfmanesque high strings.

(funny that my 3 favorite tracks are the 3 last ones)

Overall, that's promising. There are some improvements to be made here and there, but it was a fun listen, especially for the last tracks. Thanks again!

Since we're in a caring sharing mood, I'm about to do something I may later regret... let you all hear something of mine - and not just a little sample, but a whole, complete, substantial piece for orchestra. Caveats: This is a relatively poor quality rendering from 2004 - I don't have anything better to hand as a result of last year's great hard disc crash, and improving upon this MP3 would require going back to the score and re-recording each track... which I don't have time to do at the moment.

Also, the orchestration is a bit rough around the edges at times; I always planned to go back and clean it up, but every time I tried, somehow it spoiled the meaning I had intended. This was written during a rough period of my life, and that slightly hurried, "must get this all down before it's too late" sensaton actually suggests that a lot better than something polished and perfect.

To be honest, it's hard for me to look at this objectively now because I spent two years writing it, and perhaps I have learned to overlook its numerous flaws and failures in the name of historical document. This was written when I was 18; as all composers do when they look back to their earlier works, I hear immaturity and inexperience in virtually every bar. I also hear a certain dreamy, warm, glimmering quality that I don't appear to be able to recreate these days. So, for all its imperfections I still like this piece... and I hope you do too.

As ever, comments and criticisms are more than welcome... Say what you have to say and don't feel like you have to pretend it's wonderful just because I'm here in front of you. If you think it sucks, tell me - but please tell me why otherwise your comments will not help me grow and develop as an artist.

As far as the technical details, this is written for a large, slightly off-balanced symphony orchestra. The brass section is missing trumpets. The woodwind section is particularly heavy. Standard percussion - cymbals, timpani. There is a mixed choir and a part for solo soprano voice. No electronics or modernity here, apart from one sample - at 10:40 - which went in there as a joke. It's a heavily manipulated, slowed down, filtered, and reversed orgasmic moan. I assure you, you wouldn't know it just by listening, but that's what it is! The joke (remember, I was 18) was that the middle section was inspired by Goldsmith's Basic Instinct score.

Also, for the curious, there's a quotation from John Rutter's mass at end of the second section (another utterly tasteless teenaged-boy joke juxtaposing sexuality and the church) which sounds very nice, whatever the less-than-savoury story behind its inclusion...!

Anyway, enough jibber-jabber. Enjoy - or not. ;)

"Lovebird" - A Tone Poem for large orchestra and chorus (2004)

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/7KV0IAGQ/lovebird.mp3

Thanks Arthierr, really glad that U like at least part of it. And I know that my music makes sometimes no sense (especially when it comes to development imo), but for me it's just a hobby, I'm not rushing myself, have lots of time to improve things;).


But you have some nice equipment, which often sounds very good

That's a surprise, 'cause I use mostly EWQLSO Silver with some samples from Gold (I've got way to bad PC for use of GOLD as main library) and some ancient choir (Vota).


funny that my 3 favorite tracks are the 3 last ones

Indeed it's funny, so even more thanks for making to this point hehe. And I added tracklist to original post (here ---> http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1474553&postcount=5036 xD). Maybe someone else will check it. Again huge thanks!

And Mathazzar, your tracks are awesome. The choir is incredible. But the final 30 seconds of Discovering the Plateau is a bit... from different story. Still great work, and U clearly care for overall sound. More and longer please:).

Thanks for this Conan score. I don't know how I could possibly want more Dante's Inferno music. There is already a ton of it on the digital version.

To be honest, I think you could very well be right. There are a ton of alternate cues in the rip, but is the few new material really worth all this effort? I'm not so sure.

I think I will just work on Alpha Protocol next! Done by Jason Graves. :D

Doublehex: Hell yeah, thanks for the expansion score for Conan! I've bought very few scores (I got maybe 50 pieces), but I absolutely had to have the first one in original release. Knut A. Haugen caught me completely by surprise with this score, and these kind of artists deserves to be supported. One more time, thanks!

And yeah, both of them are recorded with real orchestra.

I repeat - the first score was synthesised, with a handful of live musicians to sweeten the mix.

Very nice! The 2nd part of track 1 is impressive, with its choir that takes you by surprise. Also your tools are frankly excellent, way more than some years ago, when I used to be in technical sound stuff. The only critcism I could express, as I already did, is the fact that these pieces sound too much like trailer music, they're too short, and the good ideas they're made off are under-exploited. You'll do a serious step forward when you'll start making some 4-5 minute pieces, cleverly developing a central theme or motif. If you're courageous enough you can attempt a whole 10-15 minute symphonic suite or tone poem, and if you're crazy you can try to write a full symphonic score on your own, with multiple themes and motifs! - like Streich's Malta or Crusader.

And Mathazzar, your tracks are awesome. The choir is incredible. But the final 30 seconds of Discovering the Plateau is a bit... from different story. Still great work, and U clearly care for overall sound. More and longer please.
I really appreciate your feedback, guys, thank you! Just to clarify, these little suckers were definitely intended to be short as I only really wrote them to test out some new tools. I guess you could say they're more a showcase of my orchestration, sequencing, and mixing than my ability to develop and entertain sophisticated musical ideas over a longer period of time. This means that my next share here better be a longer piece! ;D

Thanks again, folks!

"Lovebird" - A Tone Poem for large orchestra and chorus (2004)

I listened to it and I think that U were way too ambitious. While it is indeed surprisingly professional when comes to composition (at least imo;)) it kinda falls short in enjoyment division. Speaking straight - it's a bit boring. Few nice things here and there (10-11th minute is really awesome, dark, yet interesting, near 14th minute there is really nice part... a bit divine;)), but it's too long, the mood is too constant through the whole thing. But to be honest I partialy (even mostly) blame the quality of the recording, not samples, but the sound of whole piece, it's kinda muffled, lacks dynamics. Shame U don't have better quality, 'cause I think I could enjoy it much more if it sounded better.

But on the other hand I'm listening rigth now to Erasure's Always (damn U Robot Unicorn), so I'm like... unreliable source of opinion;).

I'm currently doing my best to catch up with all this great stuff - thanks everyone!

Here you go with some great Carl Davis compositions for Silent Movies:
all scores ripped by me
enjoy
Phenomenal post! How kind of you to upload such a treasure trove. Now I can sync up the full score with Broken Blossoms for sheer bliss :D

Were these ripped from laserdisc?


Do you have the complete Honegger-Score to Napoleon?
Sadly not, only the suite conducted by Adriano.



Luigi Boccherini
Pepe Romero and Academy of St. Martin in the Field Chamber Orchestra

Perfect! This is just my kinda thing. Good to see Sibelius making a comeback in the thread too.


I have to admit, despite all the praise given for Shostakovich, I find most of his music terribly difficult to enjoy because it is so complex it lacks the simple melodies I enjoy and the music doesn't really grab me (at least not yet).
One of the problems with 'complete works' sets is just how overwhelming they can be. It can make 'difficult' music seem inhuman and impenetrable. I personally prefer to try one work at a time, possibly through different artists' performances, to get to know each symphony or what have you on an individual basis. Then I can 'find my place' in it all.

There's no getting around the vinegary taste most Shostakovich has though ;)

I'm currently doing my best to catch up with all this great stuff - thanks everyone!

Phenomenal post! How kind of you to upload such a treasure trove. Now I can sync up the full score with Broken Blossoms for sheer bliss :D

Were these ripped from laserdisc?


I got in touch with a silent-movie-collector from the US who made for me dvd-copies of these movies. Don't know his source...

I listened to it and I think that U were way too ambitious. While it is indeed surprisingly professional when comes to composition (at least imo;)) it kinda falls short in enjoyment division. Speaking straight - it's a bit boring. Few nice things here and there (10-11th minute is really awesome, dark, yet interesting, near 14th minute there is really nice part... a bit divine;)), but it's too long, the mood is too constant through the whole thing. But to be honest I partialy (even mostly) blame the quality of the recording, not samples, but the sound of whole piece, it's kinda muffled, lacks dynamics. Shame U don't have better quality, 'cause I think I could enjoy it much more if it sounded better.

But on the other hand I'm listening rigth now to Erasure's Always (damn U Robot Unicorn), so I'm like... unreliable source of opinion;).
I think you got most of what I am thinking about this piece. I think the sound quality is a big part of it. It feels like most of the piece is far too distant.

Tango, for me your piece had a special something that kept me listening. I enjoyed it! Thanks for all the recent contributions, everyone :D (especially those daring enough to post their own compositions!)

Here you go with some great Carl Davis compositions for Silent Movies:

THIEF OF BAGDAD
27 tracks - 150 min - 192 kbps - 203MB
Part 1 track 01-14 : http://sharebee.com/cd67d289
Part 1 track 15-27 : http://sharebee.com/668083c3


Man, Ive been looking for this for years! Now if I can just find a good copy of the movie with this score on it...only have an old recorded off tv VHS....

Though, is there any way you can re-upload the first part? All the mirrors on the download are toast save for the megaupload one, which freezes about half way through :(

All comments thus far graciously received. :)

To address some of them, in no particular order.

Yes, I definitely think there's not enough material for the length. I was never one for knowing what to prune and what to keep. The writing process went on for so long that, as I said, I really started to lose focus regarding what was good and what wasn't - it was just all there.

That said, the relatively constant mood was actually somewhat intended; it's easy enough to write something that flits about and never settles on an idea long enough to explore it... what's hard is to write something that naturally evolves. It's definitely pondorous, but I don't think that hurts too much when you consider how as humans, we're constantly on fast-forward and we rarely take the time to work on one thought, one concept, one idea, before we race off to the next one.

From a compositional point of view, I think there's a lot in there that gives it listen-again value; I like pieces that refer backwards as well as forwards so that, for instance, the melody at 16:00 is a question that was answered earlier at 8:00. That sort of internalised dialogue is what keeps me interested in a lot of otherwise less-than-exciting classical music. It gives your brain something to do.

I'll certainly admit that it's not a showpiece, and it's not at all fun or exciting or upbeat. It is what it is. (A miserable, occasionally claustrophobic trek through the depths of my subconscious.) ;)

It's not a score of any kind, and it doesn't tell a story. It's really just a case of how I was feeling at the time extrapolated into notes.

As far as the sound quality (and the sample quality which is another issue entirely) goes, I think it suffers greatly. This certainly isn't the way it sounds in my head. There's a lot of detail in the score that seems to be lost in this mushy, muffly mollasses of noise... partially caused by the orchestration (which as I said earlier, needs fine-tuning) but mostly caused by ancient samples, a crummy mix, and a poor quality encode.

It's easier for me to look beyond the shitty sound than I suspect it would be for any of you, because as I listen, I am probably subconsciously turning off my hearing and conjuring up the London Symphony Orchestra in my inner ear.

All in all, I'm more convinced than ever that a thorough revision (incorporating a number of cuts,) re-orchestration, and re-recording with EWQLSO Gold would do absolute wonders for turning this piece into a viable, enjoyable, orchestral work.

At the time of writing, I didn't have the technical skills (nor the software, nor the physical computing power) to convert ideas into nice-sounding synthesis. Anybody who writes music will know that often, what works with samples would sound horrific with a real orchestra, and if you write with an orchestra in mind, the synthesiser version will sound equally bad. Definitely a casualty of that problem.

Thanks again for your comments folks - I hope this hasn't been too boring or self-indulgent. :)

Man, Ive been looking for this for years! Now if I can just find a good copy of the movie with this score on it...only have an old recorded off tv VHS....

Which version of "Thief of Bagdad" are you looking for? Criterion released the 1940 version on DVD last year.

I got in touch with a silent-movie-collector from the US who made for me dvd-copies of these movies. Don't know his source...

Thief Of Baghdad is definitely off of VHS. Trust a guy who does a lot of restoration from damaged Hi-fi VHS tracks. Hear the buzz on those high trumpet notes of the second track? VHS.

Still an excellent transfer though, considering. I wish Britain still invested time and money and talent in things like this. Can you imagine ITV commissioning a new orchestral score for an 80-year-old movie today? :/

Which version of "Thief of Bagdad" are you looking for? Criterion released the 1940 version on DVD last year.

Douglas Fairbanks 1924 version of The Thief of Baghdad. Specifically the version using Carl Davis' score. It was a special version shown on PBS back in the 80's and the music that Carl Davis put to it (re orchestration of Rimsky Korsakoff Scheherazade) is absolutely brilliant and stunning. Sadly, I have NEVER seen this version released on tape or DVD. Just many many copies with the usual generic silent film piano music.

Which version of "Thief of Bagdad" are you looking for? Criterion released the 1940 version on DVD last year.
That'll be the Douglas Fairbanks silent version (1924).


Thief Of Baghdad is definitely off of VHS. Trust a guy who does a lot of restoration from damaged Hi-fi VHS tracks. Hear the buzz on those high trumpet notes of the second track? VHS.

Still an excellent transfer though, considering. I wish Britain still invested time and money and talent in things like this. Can you imagine ITV commissioning a new orchestral score for an 80-year-old movie today? :/
I thought some might be from VHS . Short of contacting Davis himself and shamelessly begging, there's no other way of hearing many of these (thanks again Scorefun!!).

Whoever was in charge at Thames Television and saw this through in the 80s deserves a medal! British TV film-culture since the 00s, as with all things, has been f*cked :(

JRL3001 - The Kino (http://www.kino.com/video/item.php?film_id=651) R1 dvd looks the best. Just turn the volume down and play the fulll score in mp3. Or burn a custom disc :) [this is possible, right?..]

This thread should never be buried so deep!

Discovering the Plateau (http://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/discovering-the-plateau)

Clashing Cultures (http://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/clashing-cultures)

I think that both of these are rather good. they could do with so expanding on the theme.

I saw THIEF OF BAGDAD some years ago here in germany with a live orchestra performance
and it was awesome ! This collector in US was my first and only possibility to get a copy
of the movie with the Davis-Score after years of searching without luck...

I will reupload soon
(The isolated music and effect track of the 1940-version by Rozsa I also have ripped)

Hey Tango,
I justs listened to your piece. I did not listen to the sound quality, just to the composition.
At the beginning it sounds nice, has a nice touch, very lovely. (In your total composition you have a couple of nice orchestral sounds too.) But when you continue listening, it sounds more like the same. I'm not talking about the orchestration or instrumentation, but the only thing I realy miss in your work is, one or multiple, themes. Most of the composition sounded more like various chords continuing.
I think if, the next time you do more in melodies and themes, it will be more interesting to listen to.

Scorefun - The Criterion dvd-rip was posted previously by dooj17:
http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1269394&postcount=2508

Hey Tango,
I justs listened to your piece. I did not listen to the sound quality, just to the composition.
At the beginning it sounds nice, has a nice touch, very lovely. (In your total composition you have a couple of nice orchestral sounds too.) But when you continue listening, it sounds more like the same. I'm not talking about the orchestration or instrumentation, but the only thing I realy miss in your work is, one or multiple, themes. Most of the composition sounded more like various chords continuing.
I think if, the next time you do more in melodies and themes, it will be more interesting to listen to.

There are melodies, there are themes; they're just not shoved in your face. Certainly it's a more textural than thematic, but I don't perceive that as a flaw in itself. Again, anybody can write a thousand melodies - whether they're any good or not, of course, is another matter! I tended to think of the piece as one, extremely long, unfolding melody - though there are leitmotives of sorts (melodic and harmonic alike - though the primary motif of the piece is indeed a simple chord progression) that give a grounding.

As I said before, I consider this to be something that becomes more rewarding on its second or n'th listen.

I think suggesting that it would be better and more interesting with "more themes" is oversimplifying the issue somewhat; particularly since I dispute the inference that they are absent in the first place. ;)

Anyhoo - thanks for listening and for your thoughts, which I do, as ever, appreciate. I get the general impression from the various comments so far that it was slow, boring, too long, emotionally distant, melodically insufficient, and poorly rendered. If this is indeed the case, then I have failed in my attempt to write a piece that would appeal to others; but I have succeeded in writing a piece that would appeal to me and in that case, it's not entirely a dead loss. Regardless, it was years ago.

Without wanting to suggest some kind of sour grapes, I find it somewhat disheartening and ironic that some of the music posted here in the past has been (let's face it) supremely bad, bordering on the incompetent, ultra-low-budget Media Ventures-esque nonsense - the epitomy of all that is wrong with music today - and has consistently received an almost universally sunny response... If a man can toss together 90 seconds of auto-generated chords in EWQLSO, throw in some chanting choir and slamming percussion samples, and receive nearly unanimous praise... converesely, a man can spend two years writing a long form tone poem, note by note, chord by chord, in a relatively unique, late-romantic-inspired style... and be greeted with nearly unanimous derision... well, I guess I'm in the wrong genre here. ;)

Now, I apologise again for taking up so much of this thread... so thank you all, again, for listening and for being good enough to turn your thoughts into writing.

Scorefun - The Criterion dvd-rip was posted previously by dooj17:
http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1269394&postcount=2508

oK - thanks for the Info

BTW - here are new links for Carl Davis' THIEF OF BAGDAD:

Part 1:
http://massmirror.com/169861fcbeb6bb42e90df901e912d3c5.html
Part 2:
http://massmirror.com/f7024be87a1581797bb7abef33bcff59.html

New links? The old ones worked for me. :)

There are melodies, there are themes; they're just not shoved in your face.

I think suggesting that it would be better and more interesting with "more themes" is oversimplifying the issue somewhat; particularly since I dispute the inference that they are absent in the first place. ;)

I was not saying they were absent. And I'm not saying you'd have to change your piece.
Your composition is something that you made, with your thoughts and imagination.

I was just referring to, if you are still writing music, maybe it'd be interesting if you did use an "in you face" theme (if you want to call it that way) in a next composition.


I get the general impression from the various comments so far that it was slow, boring, too long, emotionally distant, melodically insufficient, and poorly rendered. If this is indeed the case, then I have failed in my attempt to write a piece that would appeal to others; but I have succeeded in writing a piece that would appeal to me and in that case, it's not entirely a dead loss. Regardless, it was years ago.

I dont think anyone ment to give you this impression, but merely helping you; Giving you the opportunity to use these comments in a future composition.
After all you did tell us to say what we think.
And I'd like to add: you should really continue making music! Ofcourse for yourself, but also to others. Maybe I gave the wrong impression but I did enjoy listening your piece.

I actually did some research on the original Age of Conan, and I need to confirm what Tango said.

It is a mostly synthesized score! O, Humanity! To think I was fooled for these past two years. I can only imagine, how was it that a highly anticipated MMO got the Synth route, while the expansion for the game that became infamous and not nearly as successful as anticipated got the real orchestral route? Shouldn't it have been the other way around?

Still, this doesn't degrade the quality of Haugen's work on the first game. If anything, it just surprises me that a man with talent can do so much with whatever tools he is given. It sounded like a real orchestra to me, and even after listening back to see if I can "hear" the fakeness of it all, I can't.

Haugen is a real ace.

^^ Tin ears. ;)

The synth is terrible... The music is, as you say, absolutely superb.

What? Come on Tango! Haugen did an incredible job with the synth in Age of Conan. It fooled me for two years - that has to say something!

I was not saying they were absent. And I'm not saying you'd have to change your piece. [snip for brevity]

If I gave you the impression I was offended, let me clarify that I am not! :)

As I have said repeatedly I welcome all comments; indeed, I asked for them and if I couldn't take them on the chin then I wouldn't have posted. However good the intentions are (and I can clearly see they are good from all parties) it's a bit of a downer when you post something you worked on for two years... a perfect stranger spends twenty minutes of their life listening to it, and denounces it "boring", "not enjoyable", "overambitious", "too long", "themeless", "[just] chords"... following up with a number of weasel-word compliments designed to soften the blow ("surprisingly professional" - there's a backhanded smack in the face if ever there was one; were you expecting outright incompetence? That's the kind of compliment you pay a three year old picture when he draws a picture of you and it actually is vaguely discernible as a human being and not a table or a car or a wooly mammoth, or to a 90 year-old granny who designed the Parish Council newsletter on her computer and didn't use a different typeface every word and make all the headlines in Comic Sans mixed with super-wavy Word Art.) and "few nice parts here and there" (going on to illustrate about six seconds of music out of a twenty-five minute piece)...

I do not take offense - it's just a whack in the nuts, that's all.

I am reminded that opinion truly is a subjective thing; one man's Goldsmith is another man's Zimmer. One man's boring is another man's meditative. One man's themeless is another man's textural. One man's too long is another man's thorough. One man's distant is another man's restrained.

So, on some of the finer details we disagree. So what else is new?

Peace, folks :)
TT

What? Come on Tango! Haugen did an incredible job with the synth in Age of Conan. It fooled me for two years - that has to say something!

With the utmost respect... four seconds playing the score convinced me I was listening to a synthesiser. As fake orchestras go, it's pretty good - but it's still as obviously fake as Jordan's tits. ;)

BTW - here are new links for Carl Davis' THIEF OF BAGDAD:

Part 1:
http://massmirror.com/169861fcbeb6bb42e90df901e912d3c5.html
Part 2:
http://massmirror.com/f7024be87a1581797bb7abef33bcff59.html

Thanks!! :D I owe you a cookie!

"surprisingly professional" - there's a backhanded smack in the face if ever there was one; were you expecting outright incompetence?

Not incompetence, no, but I didn't expect such mature approach to writing. That was surprise to me, I really expected something much lighter, much simplier, and U actually gave me huge piece of music, piece of not easy music, piece that demands something from listener. And just for that huge respect. But you really handicaped yourself with the quality of it, I think I'd prefer to listen original midi than this distant, muffled, lacking any dynamics rendering. So my perception of the track is also a bit your fault.


few nice parts here and there

Sorry for not being specific enough, but it's really big piece of music that U wrote, so writing second by second what I liked and what I disliked would take me years. Also, I know almost nothing 'bout theory, bout technical stuff, so all I can say is what I feel.

Finally, I would really like to listen more from you, but next time try to make better sounding version (again, I'm not talking about samples).

I fear I've been something of a drama queen here. I apologise. The truth is, I've never been subjected to close scrutiny before and looking back, I took only the negative parts of the various comments and multiplied them by ten inside my head.

Yes, the sound quality sucks the big wazoo - there's a lot I like about those samples, to be honest, but overall they are terrible and they don't exactly make the piece easy to enjoy. In my head, it's a minimalistic, Goldenthalian, gothic symphony. In the MP3, it's a noisy, blurry, samey mess of incoherent ideas. Yes, it definitely needs revision, and pruning...

I also mistook your comment (which I see now was a genuine compliment) for a backhanded insult. I apologise again. Once again, lack of self confidence combined with a genuine lack of experience dealing with criticism is to blame. I'm clearly not able to see the woods for the trees.

Your lack of specifics is nothing at all you should apologise for; it's quite understandable and obviously you're not going to put your life on hold and spend the next decade carefully analysing every single note I wrote. I got your gut reaction, and that's usually the most valuable reaction of all.

I remember playing something to my family some time ago. It was, like this piece, something I toiled for three years over, and nearly died right in the middle of for reasons far too melodramatic to discuss. The comments?

1. Did you make that?
2. It sounds like keyboards.

In my head, I turned "surprisingly professional" into "1" and "poor sound quality" into "2" and I thought that you'd just given me the effing brush off just like my musically illiterate mother did all those years ago. ;)

Also, there's so much in there that nobody but me is going to understand, because it's personal references and quotes from previous works and all that sort of crap. Terribly impressive, makes me feel real clever, but you won't know a damn thing about it because you haven't lived inside my head for twenty-five years or heard every note of music I've ever written or listened to in my whole life. ;)

Quick example: This piece was intended to clear my mind after writing another long symphonic poem the previous year; a lot of things happened to me in a short period of time. I fell in love for the first time (proper love, the sort you never forget). I got my first job (which I still have today!) My grandmother died. I put my mother in hospital in a car accident (nothing really serious though) and various other things. I flew out to the USA to be with this girl. We had the most wonderful two weeks of my life together. She had a piano in her living room. Because I was jet-lagged I would frequently wake up in the middle of the night and I'd creep downstairs and start tinkling quietly on the piano. I ended up with this bittersweet melody that I played over and over and over again. I tend to think of everything in musical terms, and I had a lot of music flying around in my head those two weeks. When I got home, I started writing a piece based on that melody and everything else that I had in my mind at the time. About two days later she called me up and left me.

I had nowhere to go and nobody to turn to - so out came my pencil and paper (I actually did in short score on paper) and off I went. I decided to continue the piece from exactly where I'd left it; right in the middle of a dreamy romantic moment, everything falls away and goes wrong. I forced myself to work with that happy theme throughout the whole piece to see what my suddenly-upset mind would do. Because the piece took a year to write, the subtleties of melody and whatnot physically represent my state of mind throughout the whole process - naive love, utter depression, and then the healing process. The piece started with a quote from Dvorak's 9th symphony (for the beginning of my journey to the USA) and finished 13 months later with a fantasia on the chimes of Big Ben playing in unison with a variation of that same little melody I played on the piano; the cycle was complete, I was back home and I was happy again, but at the same time I'd never forget.

(Quick example my arse...!)

So, there's all this back story behind it. If you listened to the damn thing about five hundred times, it would probably all start to slot into place. But the first time around, it's a badly rendered, overly-long, self-indulgent piece that isn't particularly interesting.

(One of the themes was actually her name; N-I-N-A got mapped out onto an alphabetical scale - 1=C,2=D,3=E,4=F,5=G=,6=A,7=B, etc, etc and became BDBC. I think a variant of that theme is turning up in Lovebird as well. I was quite clearly obsessed with this woman...!!!)

I AM SORRY. This is probably so boring. Peace folks. :)

I was going to write down my impressions of the piece, but I'm afraid I've used my allotted time catching up on the subsequent posts. And now my oven is beeping. But I'll let the chicken burn for a second to say one thing, TT.

What you're saying isn't boring. It probably helps, and this community (this thread in particular) supports you. So if it helps, let it out.

Being critiqued is always difficult. The first time I had one of my stories workshopped, I was eviscerated. Absolutely fucking eviscerated. And the teacher saw that I was frowning. I didn't say anything, but apparently he had a serious problem with anyone not appearing ecstatic to accept his dismissive and weirdly angry comments. So he stopped the critique, wrote on the board the words that he thought I used incorrectly, and challenged me to define them. The class went silent. I slumped down into my chair and waited for the moment to pass. Finally, he said, "I thought so," and moved on to the next story.

What's the point? My chicken's burning. No. The point is that (a) getting critiqued sucks and (b) it requires a thick skin that can take a long time to develop. In one hand, you have to hold the idea that you're competing with everyone's sensibilities, points of reference, and the larger history of your art form. On the other hand, you have to say, "I don't care," and write something that is true to yourself and as good as you can make it.

If they don't like it, at least you do.

I look around and I see a lot of positive comments. I think you should take encouragement. :D

I should also mention tango, your music being goldenthalesque or however you want to call it is a good reason I didn't get into it. I haven't enjoyed a single goldenthal soundtrack no matter how much everyone tries to tell me its brilliant. The fact of the matter is most of his stuff i've heard is utterly depressing and i can't stand to listen to it. So to be positive, if I didn't like your goldenthal styled work then its probably pretty good and goldenthal style ;)

Have you heard Othello? Albeit not a soundtrack...

I think that both of these are rather good. they could do with so expanding on the theme.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed! And yes, they could definitely be far longer but they weren't really meant to be sophisticatedly "musical" so much as demonstrative of the new tools I was using. There was one last one in this series of demos that I put together today, so I may as well drop a link here for those who enjoyed the first two. Same kind of thing, just a tad longer:

March of the Death Mage (http://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/march-of-the-death-mage)

Also, I wanted to address Tango's piece since I've finally gotten around to listening to it more than once. I only skimmed the previous reviews you got, so forgive me if I re-tread over things that have already been said. So for what it's worth, the commentary of a reviewer:

I loved the cinematic opening. There's some hints of old Hollywood musical shapes and colours in there and some very nice and subtle orchestrational flourishes. By the 2:20-ish point I felt like you'd already made your point of introducing the material and were meandering a bit, though I very much appreciated the patient drop around 3:00 or so.

Accordingly, the section until just about 6:00 in was fairly weak for me. It wasn't that the quality of the writing itself had dropped, but I felt like you had already told me this story and were now just going back and saying "oh, and one more thing. OH I almost forgot...etc etc" just filling in unnecessary details in a picture I had already gotten. Still, the thematic statements from there through the 7th minute were quite rousing.

After my interest took a bit of a nap, I really perked my ears back up again past the ten minute mark and onwards throughout the majestic phrases leading to the 14-minute denouement area. Extremely well executed. When you built so darkly to the 15:20 mark I was *so* hoping you would take the piece in a different direction instead of just pausing before forging forth on the yellow brick road. I really wanted to hear some threat to the Utopian landscape you had painted for my ears. Alas, it was not to be. The climatic rise midway through the 16th minute and then the slightly more menacing section around the 21st minute were close but it was still more "awe" than "aw shit".

The conclusion is appropriately grand and I thought the piano was a completely tasteful and unexpected and lovely way to close it off.

So to summarize: I enjoyed listening to certain areas of it very much, the rest sort of just floated by. I thought it was about twice as long as it needed to be, and the reason I found it tiresome in some areas was because it was so static. The piece is quite constant in its rhythms, its dynamic levels, etc. It has gorgeous, important things to say, and it says them well...but it's like that guy at the party who's had a few too many and really wants to tell everyone his joke but keeps forgetting the punchline so he keeps backpedaling and trying again and again.

That's my two cents, Tango. Congratulations on completing such a large work, even if it's not current. :)

Brevity is the soul of wit. I have one sign hanging on my wall, my One Commandment of Composing. It says, simply, "Less." Do more with less; say more with less; refine the composition to it's barest essences; trim the orchestration until it's as lean and efficient as possible. It is an adaptation of the one true commandment of the universe... Thou Shalt Not Waste. In nature, if it isn't absolutely essential, nature weeds it out. Less truly is More.

That's my take.


_Mike

I haven't enjoyed a single goldenthal soundtrack no matter how much everyone tries to tell me its brilliant.


Have you heard Othello?

And because I adore Goldenthal, maybe you would like to share Othello, 'cause I can't find it anywhere (and Vietnam Oratorio would be nice too if U have it somewhere). Just a suggestion;).

+1 to that — would love it if someone has Othello available! :)

Damn dude...pretty bomb ^^

Here's an amazing game music orchestral album, in fact one of the best I've heard.


Gradius In Classic I

Composed by Konami Kukeiha Club
Arranged by Norio Maeda, Michiru Oshima, Masamichi Amano, Kunihiro Kawano
Performed by London Philharmonic Orchestra

|FLAC|1CD|238MB|

Credits to VyseLegend




http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1446256&postcount=5883


01 Act I-1 5:02
02 Act I-2 4:19
03 Act I-3 4:53
04 Act II-1 5:34
05 Act II-2 6:39
06 Act III-1 5:34
07 Act III-2 5:59
08 Act III-3 4:04
Disc length 42:04



Everybody (should) know Gradius, the great shoot'em up games series. I used to play to some of these a lot, and they're actually quite fun. Generally, this kind of game feature techno-like or electronic music, not very tuneful, but effective in that particular context. Gradius was a little different since there was some actual themes in this series, and some really good ones, melodious and memorable.

As japanese people *adore* orchestral music so much, a symphonic adaptation was almost unavoidable. this is precisely what happened with this truly magnificient album. To do so, they could have chosen to go low budget, with amateur arrangers and a tiny, unknown orchestra, but on the contrary they simply hired the cream of the crop: some highly talented professionals, among them Michiru Oshima and Masamichi Amano, and nothing less than the London Philharmonic Orchestra for the performance!

The result is admirable. The arrangements are absolutely brilliant, the music is grandiose and inspired, greatly sublimating Gradius' original themes. The performance is what you can expect from a world-class orchestra: superb.

In short, this album is a masterpiece in its genre, and anybody interested in game music, orchestral music, or both, has to listen to it.

I was about to upload a 192k version, but then I found out that a lossless version has been posted in the lossless VGM thread by VyseLegend, so I'll just link to his post. Thanks to him!

I fear I've been something of a drama queen here.

:laugh:


"Lovebird" - A Tone Poem for large orchestra and chorus (2004)

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/7KV0IAGQ/lovebird.mp3

Seriously now, I loved it! (and NO, this is not hypocritical praise, and it never is anyway)

Frankly, I don't really understand some of the criticisms that have been made. Sound quality: sorry, but unless you have serious hearing problems, this is quite listenable. Too long: I'd rather say very developed and ambitious. Boring: only if you have a very short attention span - indeed this is NOT trailer music! Not melodic enough: so this is a flaw? Then I suppose Debussy and Ravel are crap composers.

It's truly a very beautiful piece. Indeed mostly textural, I'd say impressionistic in its approach, but not only it's not a flaw to me, but it's even a quality, since my current mood leans towards serene, dreamy, meditative music.

I especially enjoy the grandiose, otherworldly overtones, which often reach a surprisingly high level of beauty, and may I say, of spirituality. These kinds of chord progressions are one of the reasons I love so much 80's movie music, and in fact, the Goldsmithian and Horneresque influences are often to be heard in this piece.

Yes, this is not an "obvious" listen, the complexity underneath is something you have to apprehend after several listens, yet, the good news is that this piece can also be appreciated to a basic level, since I enjoyed it from the very 1st listen.

You should make a better conclusion though, because the end is rather abrupt.

Please post more if you have, and don't be over-cautious, you're amongst friends! :)

Edit: one of the reasons people were too critical is because YOU WERE as well, in your post! Read yourself, your post is full of negative remarks. Result: people are moreless consciously influenced by what you said, then listen to your stuff and say "Yeah, he's right, the sound is bad, it's immature, blah blah...", but maybe they wouldn't have noticed and would have been more open-minded without your remarks. Next time don't bring the stick to get beaten (vague translation of a french expression). Just a friendly advice. ;)

+1 to that � would love it if someone has Othello available! :)

And a third... I would be very interested in Othello too!

Gradius In Classic I


Well I'll be.

"Lovebird" - A Tone Poem for large orchestra and chorus (2004)

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/7KV0IAGQ/lovebird.mp3

Having listened to about half of this long, yet sumptuous, piece, I have to say that it is quite beautiful in a haunting, ethereal sort of way. While, to my ears anyway, there is some room for minor improvements here and there ( i.e. polishing sort of way ), the whole works very well.
It certainly isn't a piece meant for someone who likes their material short and sweet. This one requires effort from the listener. Which is a good thing, I believe, as one should never shortchange one's intentions or the audience.
If you like short and too the point, that's okay. If you enjoy texture and complexity, that's fine too. As I happen to like a little of both, this piece delivers the goods just fine.

Just my zero cents worth.

That Gradius In Classic album, which I dug out and have been playing constantly since I guessed what arthierr was talking about a week or so back, is stunning. It's also absolutely fascinating for a Brit like me.

The conductor of the LPO is none other than Ed Welch. That name probably won't mean much to people outside of the UK, but he's a real legend - for some reason, seeing his name turn up on an obscure album like this just makes me laugh joyfully.

He wrote some of our most memorable TV themes, and scored a number of television series' including one of my own personal favourite comedies, One Foot In The Grave.

He scored some humiliating sex comedies (think Carry On with nudity, bigger tits, and cruder humour) in the seventies (a bygone era when cheap British soft porn movies carried "Music composed and arranged by Ed Welch, conducted by Wilfred Burns" credits) including the notorious Confessions Of A Driving Instructor (featuring a wonderful, uniquely British, bouncy main theme performed by bass, drum kit, old pub piano, fiddle, and strings; real Cockney music) and Confessions From A Holiday Camp.

Behind the scenes, he wrote a number of pieces for regional Independent Television companies Startups. (In the seventies and eighties, it was customary for franchises of ITV to begin broadcasting in the morning by playing their corporate theme music; usually a four or five minute fanfare-pastoral-fanfare sonata-esque piece for orchestra.

A massively talented man, and a national treasure... Who somehow ended up conducting the London Philharmonic in a Japanese album of videogame score arrangements in 1993!

(and Vietnam Oratorio would be nice too if U have it somewhere). Just a suggestion;).

I can take care of that one

This is something a bit different...


JOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH, DAVE BRUBECK, ET AL.
Bach to Brubeck
Chris Brubeck - Trombone, Piano, Bass & Vocals
Bill Crofut - Banjo & Vocals
Joel Brown - Guitar & Vocals
The London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Joel Revzen

Orchestral / Jazz | MP3 LAME 3.98 -v0 | 97.8 MB


TRACK LIST - Arrangements by Chris Brubeck, except where noted

1. Bach - Variations On Themes By Bach (BWV 924a,846a)
2. Bach - Variation On A Theme By Bach (BWV 926)
3. Bach - Praeludium For Lute (BWV 997)
4. D. Brubeck - Koto Song*
5. Crofut/Keith - Blues Suite For Banjo And Orchestra
C. Brubeck - Concerto For Bass Trombone And Orchestra

6. Paradise Utopia
7. Sorrow Floats
8. James Brown in The Twilight Zone

9. Joplin - Easy Winners
10. D. Brubeck - Unsquare Dance
11. D. Brubeck - Blue Rondo a la Turk

*Orchestrated by Russell Gloyd
This no doubt requires some explanation. I was only peripherally aware of the music of Dave Brubeck until, by a stroke of good fortune, his quartet happened to perform a concert at my university, USC, with the jazz orchestra and tickets were to be had for the absurdly low sum of $5. So a few of my friends and I attended the concert which was, shall we say, an eye-opener. :) However, in my mind, one piece dominated my impression of the evening: �Blue Rondo a la Turk.� I loved the boldness of it, the pulsing 9/8 rhythm, the fullness of the arrangement with the jazz orchestra. Of course I immediately got my hands on a copy of Time Out but, while I could certainly enjoy the quartet alone, I severely missed that wide soundstage.

Until I stumbled across the final track of this album. Arranged by Dave's son, Chris, a composer in his own right, and performed with the London Symphony, it starts out slow with piano and banjo accompanied by orchestra; the build is gradual, reaching a small peak before dipping down into the blues section, ultimately climaxing in a rousing finish. In my head, even this doesn't quite match that live concert performance with the jazz orchestra, but it'll do.

So, if you're going to listen to just one track, listen to �Blue Rondo.� But you would be missing out on Chris Brubeck's beautiful arrangements of the Bach pieces and his own, virtuoso Concerto for Bass Trombone and Orchestra. Everything but the Bach pieces contain blues or jazz elements, and the �Unsquare Dance� even has the three instrumental soloists singing a bit of a send-up of country dance.

This album no doubt stretches the �BIG ORCHESTRAL ACTION� of the thread's title, for even �Blue Rondo� is more romp than bombast, but it is a delight to listen to.

Personal favorites are the �Praeludium for Lute,� �Koto Song,� the Concerto, and �Blue Rondo.�

Hope you enjoy. :)
http://uploadmirrors.com/download/LERKZYLJ/BtB.zip

\
JOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH, DAVE BRUBECK, ET AL.
Bach to Brubeck


Very cool, Unsquare Dance and Blue Rondo always were favorites of mine. Should be interesting to the tracks in LSO format.

Here's an amazing game music orchestral album, in fact one of the best I've heard.


Gradius In Classic I



I concur. This is spectacular.

This is something a bit different...


JOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH, DAVE BRUBECK, ET AL.
Bach to Brubeck

Man, here's an album I had strictly no idea it existed. I just tried some tracks for the moment, and it's really good, quite original also, since the combination of genres and instruments is a bit surprising and unsettling at 1st - you go from classical to jazz to country to whatever, and then sometimes have them mixed at the same time! I followed your recommendation and started with "Blue Rondo a la Turk" - gorgeous!

Thanks a lot for this very interesting album. :)



Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed! And yes, they could definitely be far longer but they weren't really meant to be sophisticatedly "musical" so much as demonstrative of the new tools I was using. There was one last one in this series of demos that I put together today, so I may as well drop a link here for those who enjoyed the first two. Same kind of thing, just a tad longer:

March of the Death Mage (http://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/march-of-the-death-mage)



Amazing sound quality, especially the choir - it's almost irritating to see you showing off your big "look-at-me" orchestral libraries! :p

Nice piece too, this time it's not only some big epic "in-your-face" music, but there are also some more light, delicate, restrained parts, which is quite appreciable, since it helps accentuating the bolder parts.



So i just wrote a piece for a trailer for an adventure game.
Keep in mind that its supposed to be fun and over the top, not a piece of serious classical music.
Also i am in no way a professional, so don't be too harsh. Sorry for the midi sounds and mixing.

Since this thread is huge and my free time very limited, I don't have time to check each post, but as soon as I got the time, I immerse myself in the thread again, to catch things up.

My dear Shadow, I didn't scorned this piece, I downloaded and listened to it (many times, actually), but was very busy at the time and just forgot to answer. You shouldn't have removed the link, because it's quite a sweet and lovely piece. The theme is so charming, dancing, waltz-like. The mid-part with flute and harps is truly exquisite. It reminds me of these old Sierra's King Quest games I was a big fan of.

You don't need to care too much about the sound quality, this can be improved easily when needed. From a compositional aspect, this piece is solid, and will brings a lot of added value to the game it belongs.

Please post other tracks if you composed more for this game. I'm really interested to listen more of your tuneful, melodious music.

Here's Goldenthal's Othello for anyone interested. I found this rip years ago back in the Napster days so it's not the best, but it's sufficient http://rapidshare.com/files/396929959/othello.rar

Here's Goldenthal's Othello for anyone interested.

Ahh Othello! One of my favorite Goldenthal works.


My dear Shadow, I didn't scorned this piece, I downloaded and listened to it (many times, actually), but was very busy at the time and just forgot to answer. You shouldn't have removed the link, because it's quite a sweet and lovely piece. The theme is so charming, dancing, waltz-like. The mid-part with flute and harps is truly exquisite. It reminds me of these old Sierra's King Quest games I was a big fan of.

You don't need to care too much about the sound quality, this can be improved easily when needed. From a compositional aspect, this piece is solid, and will brings a lot of added value to the game it belongs.

Please post other tracks if you composed more for this game. I'm really interested to listen more of your tuneful, melodious music.

Thanks, I actually just randomly took it down and figured no one would notice. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Like I said its hard for me to be happy about it, mostly because it very midi sounding and the fact that it was a trailer so it was short.
But since you liked it I uploaded it again


and finally this was asked for earlier.


Elliot Goldenthal
Fire, Water, Paper: A Vietnam Oratorio


http://www.multiupload.com/WX2NZ4NPXP

Here's Goldenthal's Othello for anyone interested. I found this rip years ago back in the Napster days so it's not the best, but it's sufficient http://rapidshare.com/files/396929959/othello.rar



Elliot Goldenthal
Fire, Water, Paper: A Vietnam Oratorio


Thanks guys! Been looking for these for a long time!

Brilliant, I can never get enough Goldenthal in my life — thank you for both of those! I'm still hoping for a less lossy rip of Othello but this one sounds pretty good for now so thank you kindly either way. :)

Guys, you made my day with those Goldenthal albums. Huge, huge thanks!:D

In regards to Othello, I have a 320kbps CBR version, and will upload it if that is better than what was posted.

It is indeed... the other version is only 128KBPS.

It is indeed... the other version is only 128KBPS.

Ah! Well, I'll get to it then. :)

Ah! Well, I'll get to it then. :)

Very muchly appreciated, sir...

I live to serve.


OTHELLO

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LSDSGBSN

Albert Glasser - The Boy and the Pirates (1960, Kritzerland 2010)
|Orchestral|Swashbuckling|Adventurous|Romantic|

Links removed by request of Arthierr

PLEASE SUPPORT KRITZERLAND RECORDS AND BUY A COPY OF THIS IF YOU ENJOY IT SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO RELEASE AWESOME MUSIC

THIS IS LIMITED TO 1000 COPIES SO BUY YOURS FAST IF YOU ARE A COLLECTOR - Go to www.kritzerland.com to check out their other releases!

Sirusjr - While I appreciate, as usual, your great contributions, it's been already stated several times that new releases, especially from small labels, particularly in lossless quality, shall not be shared in this thread, unless they're already sold out, which is not the case for this one.

So please would you remove this post, but thanks again for your generosity.


And a big thanks for the Goldenthal posts, guys! Really great and rare stuff.

Sirusjr - While I appreciate, as usual, your great contributions, it's been already stated several times that new releases, especially from small labels, particularly in lossless quality, shall not be shared in this thread, unless they're already sold out, which is not the case for this one.

So please would you remove this post, but thanks again for your generosity.


And a big thanks for the Goldenthal posts, guys! Really great and rare stuff.
While I appreciate this sentiment, I think for titles like this that are likely to sell out, spreading the word and giving people a chance to listen and buy a copy before they disappear is important. Kritzerland's stuff doesn't last very long and so anyone who wants to buy it might not know its available until its too late unless they hang around film score monthly to find out new releases.

I can see HUGE difference between spreading the word, which you're welcome to do (and already did recently), and giving out for free a lossless rip (i.e. perfect copy) of a new release.

Good for Kritzerland's stuff if they're sold out quickly, but since it's not already the case for this one, and no one can know when it will be, posting it in lossless quality (or any quality) is something I can't accept in this thread, you can easily understand this point.

Hence, sorry to insist, but please remove this post.

Sirusjr: can you please upload it in V0 rip instead? Thanks!

Sirusjr: can you please upload it in V0 rip instead? Thanks!

If you're talking about the Boy and the Pirates, Sirus had uploaded it too in the Film Score thread, page 1015.

I'm getting to it now too, thanks sirusjr!

Sirusjr - thanks for removing the links. Nothing personal, of course. It's just that I try to have *some little* ethics in this thread.



Reuploading this for Arthierr :)
An orchestral score to a puzzle game. Thank god for the Japanese


Takayuki Hattori
Intelligent Qube: Final Perfect Music File

I had some good impressions about this one, I instinctively felt it would rock (that's why I asked for a reup). I was right. Can someone explain how these people managed to get a full orchestral score, including a choir, for a more than obscure puzzle game??? And not any score, a grand, beautiful, majestic and very thematic one. "Ecliptic" is one of the pieces of music I listen the most lately - superb stuff.

Thanks for posting this rare gem. :)

I was right. Can someone explain how these people managed to get a full orchestral score, including a choir, for a more than obscure puzzle game??? And not any score, a grand, beautiful, majestic and very thematic one. "Ecliptic" is one of the pieces of music I listen the most lately - superb stuff.

Thanks for posting this rare gem. :)


I would love to be in the meeting where the score was decided on.
I like to imagine it went something like this.

"So we need a score for this obscure puzzle game"

"I assumed we would just use random bouncy electronic music like every other puzzle game"

"I was thinking we would get Hattori to create a majestic orchestral/choral score"

"oh...that works too..."
;)



Also arthierr said I should put up more songs like that game trailer from a while ago.
So here you go
Rain Scene (http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/6/24/2487612/Rain%20Scene.mp3)

Hi,

With all the music that's been shared here, I wanted to contribute something in my own, small way. I hope this hasn't been posted before, but I don't remember seeing it.

These are 3 pieces from shows at Epcot at Walt Disney World. The first is Reflections Of Earth and is one of my favorites. It's the first movement from the nighttime fireworks, lasers and fountain show IllumiNations that happens every night. This show has been running for 10 years. The second piece is We Go On and is the ending from the same show. It does have lyrics, but the music is still nice. The third piece is Tapestry of Nations and is the longest selection. It came from a parade that I don't even think they do anymore. The opening is nice, but then gets pretty repetetive for the rest of the piece.

It's not much, but I hope everyone likes it. Ripped at 320.

Epcot Shows (http://hotfile.com/dl/48322421/0660810/EpcotShows.zip.html)

Pathfire

Its been quiet around here for the past few days...time to fix that!
I put together this sampler of my favorite Kilar concert works.
This won't be everyone's cup of tea but there are many of you in this thread that will like it. And everyone has to admit, he has awesome hair.



Wojciech Kilar
Concert Works Sampler


1. Requiem Father Kolbe
2. Orawa
3. Piano Concerto: I. Preludium
4. Piano Concerto: II. Corale
5. Piano Concerto: III. Toccata
6. Exodus
7. Angelus
8. Krzesany

http://www.multiupload.com/BY17D04DMF

Now I will explain why I chose these tracks.

1. Requiem Father Kolbe - If you don't know who Father Kolbe was look up his story, it will help you understand the piece so much more. This is extremely haunting piece, not very active but beautiful in the most tragic way. There is a wonderful change of moods at 12:04 from dark and somber to a solemn but joyful hymn style.

2. Orawa - The exact opposite of the previous. This is active....almost purposefully hyperactive. For example there is some deliciously brutal and string writing from 7:00 to the end. A really unique ending, gotta love it.

3-5. Piano Concerto - I put this in to calm down after the chaos that is the end of Orawa. The first movement Preludium is very relaxing.

6. Exodus - Not much to say here. A really driving piece at places.

7. Angelus - This is fascinating, unique, and surely not for everyone. Starting off with a rather I don't know...creepy chant, and it gets intense fast with the entrance of the orchestra. Some beautiful solo vocal work in the middle section.

8. Krzesany - Okay so I added this onto the end just for the "WHAT THE HELL AM I LISTENING TO?!" factor. Just listen to it once through and you will know what I mean. There are parts where your ears just don't know what to think. There was one section where I couldn't figure out if it was dissonant or not it sounds kinda nice but at the same time there is something so wrong about the horns. And the end is absolutely insane....

Everyone, I've got some great news about the score for Star Wars The Old Republic:
Seems like it will be the next big thing since Return of the Jedi.

Here are two samples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5dMLeK984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ixnayvs2w (Do I hear some Outcast in this ?!)

(Do I hear some Outcast in this ?!)

Lennie Moore is the man

Thanks for reminding me, I need to listen to that again. Its been way too long

Everyone, I've got some great news about the score for Star Wars The Old Republic:
Seems like it will be the next big thing since Return of the Jedi.

Here are two samples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5dMLeK984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ixnayvs2w (Do I hear some Outcast in this ?!)

It's a bad, bad day when I am more excited for the musical score than the game. Is it because of Bioware, or that it's an MMO?

Probably because it is Star Wars. It's become something of a joke these past years, it's pathetic. The last great thing to come out of Star Wars was KOTOR II - THE SITH LORDS, and that was incomplete and rushed out for the holidays! Even then it was better than all of the prequels combined.

Enough of that rant, however. The music sounds pretty good, but we have to remember that this is just scraps of what is probably being recorded. I'm not judging anything until I can hear the final product.

Pathfire - Reflections of Earth is a wonderful piece! Thank you so much - you've satisfied both my orchestral and Disney geekiness :D I was worried at first it would be a bit Zimmerish, but it's a lot more intelligent and vivacious than that. A quick search reveals Gavin Greenaway as the composer.

Shadow - This Kilar sampler is much appreciated. I'm still getting into him really. Another excellent post!

Klnerfan - Well if that doesn't sound dreamy! I didn't know we had more Lennie Moore on the horizon. Very excited now :)

In case anyone has missed it:


Michael Tavera
The Land Before Time IX: Journey to Big Water (Promo)



http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1494211&postcount=25728

Thanks to Dharma! It's nothing on the scale of Horner's, but miles better than you'd expect from an 8th cheap and nasty video sequel!

I love how far this thread has come. Its amazing that we are on page 225. Its a shame I wasn't posting the whole time.
I hit one of the early pages by accident instead of the current ones and started cracking up when i saw Tango's "final post" in this thread 2 years ago.

Speaking of Lennie Moore. Can anyone re-up his Dragonshard score? I was able to get parts 1 & 2, but not part 3 of the original rip.

:-[:-[:-[:-[

Was this by any chance one of my childish "Somebody posted music with one electronic instrument in it!" rants?

:-[:-[:-[:-[

Was this by any chance one of my childish "Somebody posted music with one electronic instrument in it!" rants?

Quite possibly. You've changed quite a bit, Mr. D.

I think it was ;) It just gave me a good chuckle

Today I wanna give U something and I'm not sure if it's a good idea;). That "something" is Piotr Rubik's album Habitat. Rubik is/was a huge star in Poland. His fame began with his "oratorios" which were bashed by probably all existing Polish critics (because it's kitch, shit, commercial crap, sacro-pop etc.), yet people loved it - biblical themes, simple, catchy melodies, pretentious and banal lyrics (well, people are people;)) and all performed by huge orchestra, choir and vocalists.

Album I'm sharing with you is his most different thing, yet still the same - his idea for music was to write pop songs with semi-poetic lyrics (although he did not write 'em) about things that are more or less important to people, and all his albums are based on this scheme (Habitat has less of pope, Moses and Jesus though;)). But you shouldn't care bout lyrics, 'cause you won't understand damn thing. So I'm kinda experimenting on you - can it be enjoyable without understanding a thing? Cause I actually would like to not know what they are singing about, lyrics sometimes are really PoS. So for U there is orchestra, choir, DJ's (I already see, how you cringe when listening to electronic beat and scratches;)) and singing guys and girls (about 190 musicians all together).

To be honest I'm bit ashamed of liking it hehe, but after all I found Rubik's music to be very nicely composed and orchestrated pop songs (not very original though, there is even a place for four-note motif from U know who).

Translated titles are just to give you any idea what the hell are they singing (deleted one track, cause it was performed by composer himself and he... well shouldn't sing;)).



Piotr Rubik Habitat

1. Habitat. Prolog
2. Astrologia uczuć (Astrology of Feelings)
3. Miłość ocali świt (Love will Save the Dawn)
4. Skamieniałe łzy (Petrified Tears)
5. Nieśmiertelności nie odbierze nam B�g (God won't take our immortality)
6. Katedra (Cathedral)
7. Serce dzwonu (Heart of the Bell)
9. Jak pieśni Papuszy (Like Papusza's Song)

CD 2:
1. Jesteśmy inni (We are Different)
2. Schody donikąd (Stairs to Nowhere)
3. To cała prawda (This is all True)
4. Kropelka rosy, kropla krwi (Drop of dew, Drop of blood)
5. Przylądek Dobrej Nadziei (Cape of the Good Hope)
6. Świat się zaczyna (The world is Starting) or Świat się nie kończy (World doesn't End)
7. Niezmienność (Constancy)
8. Habitat. Epilog
9. Kocham żyć (I love to live)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EMDUCOXB

Here four sample tracks (chosen randomly heh) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4WH0G6VG

No cover, 'cause it's embarrasingly bad. And sorry for experimenting on you guys;). One more, it's live album so there's annoying claping after every track. I never was so annoyed by clapping;).

mverta/Mike, I respect the things you have to say and I have no doubt that the session players wouldn't exactly hold many current Hollywood composers in high regard.

Having said that - we live in 2010 - where it is entirely possible to become a master orchestrator (okay - maybe not "by the book") and not know how to read a score that isn't in concert pitch. I know a bunch of people who are fantastic orchestrators and they learned by transcribing scores by ear into MIDI, down the finest detail.

Obviously they can read the treble and bass clefs, but if you had to make a quick decision about transposing a horn part, I doubt they could do it on the spot.

I went to college with a bunch of purist composers. The kind that would never use samples, never load up Stormdrum and compress the hell out of the orchestra...Thing is, none any of them could write a memorable, sweeping - filmic tune. They'd also never be able to write 2+ minutes of music a day, regardless of orchestration or lack of it. They couldn't write music to a scene. Not just write "music" that fits a mood - but actually weave into the intricacy of a scene.

I dunno. I just think there's a certain amount of snobbery out there for film composers who have kick ass visions and ears but aren't so sharp with the technical aspects of orchestration. I think there's a bare minimum technical level people should be on for practical reasons and session recording - I see why it becomes an issue. But I don't think enough people realize exactly why certain composers keep getting the work while the orchestration heads don't. It's a different skill. Sometimes they cross, but not all the time.

I certainly don't to bring this topic away from what it's meant to be about. I'd love to talk to you in more detail about some of this stuff if you want to PM. Otherwise that's cool. I just wanted to comment.

There's probably a bunch of would be scorsese's in the world sitting around waiting for something to hit them. They can direct to technical perfection but if they can't work the system or tell a story people want to hear then it's going to be a tough ride. Speilberg and Williams are the perfect combination, because here you've got two guys that on a technical level are incredibly good - but are also able to please a wide audience. That's rare as hell.

Either way it's awesome that you're on this forum. All the best with your music.

Musical snobbery is a separate issue from technical prowess. To become a great orchestrator, you must study the great orchestrations of the last couple of centuries at least, which are/were in transposed form. It becomes second nature. I have never met a master orchestrator - a true master - who hadn't absorbed the lexicon in this way, and thus was naturally comfortable with transposed scores. I meet a lot of orchestrators today who know better than to write parallel 5ths and doubled 3rds just fine, but don't turn out inspired orchestrations, merely "fine" ones. 90% of today's orchestration can be described as "not offensive," at best.


_Mike

Chris, welcome to the thread.

We could go round and round forever on this. If I may interject to offer another view..

The 'orchestration heads' used to get the work. Hundreds of rich, distinctive, dexterous scores by Williams, Goldsmith, Broughton et al prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that supreme technical command and big themes, wide-appeal and on-task efficiency go together perfectly (in the right hands) to produce fantastic results. This is the tradition that we're all coming from in film music. It can't be ignored or forgotten.

A score that gets the job done is one thing; but is that what we're talking about? Is that why we're passionate about film music?

"Kick-Ass" will start to sound dated before long and *who gets the work* will shift again.

EDIT - A brief word about "Snobbery":

This is THE most facile argument going. Sure, there are plenty of actual close-minded snobs out there; people consumed by status anxiety and prestige, who want to appear to be a cut above. No one here is that kind of person. Snobbishness is NOT the same thing as believing in the value of craft, artistry, subtlety, variety and intelligence.

Do we really have resort to that depressing route again, in order to celebrate what is already hugely popular?

Plus, working and making a lasting contribution are different things. 50 years from now we'll have a better perspective on how lasting an impact today's music had. Probably as much as it does now: ask 10 random people to sing the themes from the last 10 blockbuster films. Find out how much of it really became part of their lives; part of the culture. Then have them sing Jaws from 1975 or Raiders from 1981. Success of the film, money it makes - none of this has any impact or bearing on quality.


_Mike

Hmm - all good points here. I just read back into this thread and realized similar issues have already been discussed here (and just found a massive 40 page topic at the SoundsOnline/EWQL forums, so I'm all tired of it now myself), so I don't intend on bringing it back to life anymore than this.

I absolutely agree that working and making an impact are two different things. I could hum a hans zimmer tune to you right now but I know it wouldn't make anywhere near the impact that humming Raiders or Jaws would make. (Both musically, and cultrally)

I guess I was more interested in discussing the topic about how session musicians feel about composers. I may have jumped a little overboard there in regards to "orchestra heads". I have the highest respect for John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, etc etc. But I also am a big fan of Hans Zimmer. And I respect any composer that has made it to that level, because let's face it, it's brutal out there.

I didn't really mean to say you could become a "true" master of orchestration by skipping the good, classic, proven material - but I still think that you could write quality film music, orchestrate to a fairly remarkable level (compared to what else is out there, in Hollywood blockbusters, let's say) - and not be able to instantly fire off transpositions for all the instruments in the orchestra. Okay so you might get a few "pffts" from the orchestra...

I'd like to hear more about live recording sessions if you'd be willing to share more stories. As much as I respect what guys like Brian Tyler do - afterall, he works hard...there's a clip on youtube from the Dragonball scoring session where I can only imagine the orchestra were thinking, when's the next J.W score coming again?

I'm very interested in learning more about the whole session process. Anything you'd be willing to talk about/share, I'd love to hear it.

Peace!

Well the essence of all the session/musician stories - certainly the LA ones - is that the players themselves are breathtakingly good virtuosos, every desk, and are not only hard to impress, but are primarily excited by the challenge and thrill of playing truly great music. The best compliment they can give you at the end of a session is to take some of your parts home. That means the material was difficult enough to require them to really pay attention, but playable enough to be fun. It's why they got into music in the first place, and why they practice 6 hours a day or whatever. Give someone a taste of their dreams, and they'll follow you to the ends of the Earth.

Come in with less than virtuosic ability, attitude, and uninspiring music, and expect to be judged accordingly, but silently; the gig's too good for anyone to open his/her mouth. They vent when it's safe, as people in political situations usually do.


I still think that you could...orchestrate to a fairly remarkable level...and not be able to instantly fire off transpositions for all the instruments in the orchestra.

I could not agree less. These are the most rudimentary, elementary skills. If you don't know the alphabet, you will not write the great novel. If you don't know your basic timestables, you will not be winning the Nobel Prize for physics.

Personally, I write every cue with the players in mind. I know that when they're in their favorite place, they play their best. Writing music that is always in the sweet spot, orchestrationally, is an entire art within the art. The best players can play just about anything, but they silently seethe at having to make a shrill note subtle, or an extreme low-end note sing. In fact, though it would be considered amongst the most basic skills, writing in the sweet spot is rarely seen in modern orchestrations, and usually then by accident. What I see are people who can successfully look up an instrument's range, figure if they stay within that, they're safe, and care for little else. And what happens when the blend on the stage isn't right? They alter dynamics, and/or grab a fader on the console. This happens ALL the time. You'll have shrill flutes/piccolo on top of horn triads below middle C, and the blend will be all wrong, so the "composer" will ask the "orchestrator" how to fix it, and the call will be 1) have the flutes play ppp - which they can barely muster in that range effectively, or 2) have the horns at f which ruins the intent of the cue or 3) pull down the flute fader on the console, which fixes the amplitude mismatch but not the timbral quality, so it's this weird, hybrid mismatch of tones. Christ most people suck. You think I'm exaggerating, like this isn't true for most of the work out there, but you're wrong. :)

By the way :


As much as I respect what guys like Brian Tyler do - afterall, he works hard...there's a clip on youtube from the Dragonball scoring session where I can only imagine the orchestra were thinking, when's the next J.W score coming again?

I've watched all of them, and I have to disagree. They weren't paying any attention to him whatsoever. On the 8th day, God made The Click, to keep us safe from conductors with semi-random muscular spasms. And by the way, applause is usually a backhanded F-You. Solemn banging on the stands is the awe-and-respect. When it's the last cue of the entire show, then you might get the applause, but that only happens after the dismissal/end-of-session from the contractor and the (hopefully) thanks from the composer.


But the musicians are tough even on people who know what they're doing. I can't quite remember this joke they used to tell about Thomas Newman, but it had something to do with the fact that it would take them 2 weeks to record 2 hours of music, on 2 pieces of paper (because of all the whole notes). Ahhh... musician humor. :)


_Mike

Double-post; apologies.

Yikes. Thanks for sharing. By the way I meant I was agreeing with you on the Brian Tyler thing - as in "When are we gonna get to play some John williams already!?".

That's interesting about the ranges thing. Yeah - you'd expect at least more than a basic knowledge in that department. So I can see where the frustration comes from. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff like that going on.

Cheers.

I just posted this for another thread earlier, but I thought I should be in this thread too.
Plus it has been a favorite of mine for a very long time, probably since I was around 12 years old.



Rimsky-Korsakov
Scheherazade, Op. 35



http://www.multiupload.com/HUHWJY9OFS

Scheherazade! Great piece!!!


_Mike

I know a bunch of people who are fantastic orchestrators and they learned by transcribing scores by ear into MIDI, down the finest detail.

As a connoisseur of fine orchestration I must have names (or websites) if at all possible.

I just posted this for another thread earlier, but I thought I should be in this thread too.
Plus it has been a favorite of mine for a very long time, probably since I was around 12 years old.


This is also one of my most favorite pieces! I don't believe i've heard this recording, but I have the Berlin/Karajan recording of the Planets which I love, so I'm excited to listen this! Thanks, ShadowOnTheSun.

Haven't posted anything in a while, so here we go :)


THE SEVEN SAMURAI
THE ARTISTRY OF FUMIO HAYASAKA
The Japan Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra
Conducted by Tetsuji Honna



MP3-V0 + Full Scans
http://www.multiupload.com/GHCW47MFOI

Fumio Hayasaka was one of Japan's top-ranking post-war composers. As a young man he was close friends with Akira Ifukube and was later acknowledged as a formative influence by none other than Toru Takemitsu. For reasons I don't quite understand, his music seems to have become a casualty of time. This disc is one of only a tiny handful of available recordings, and I'm pretty sure this is the first time it's appeared anywhere on the web.

The famous fatalistic Theme of the Seven Samurai opens the programme with nobility and is carried over into an extended elegiac treatment in the following Intermezzo. The real treat for Kurosawa fans here is a generous suite from Rashomon. The high harmonies of the sho, a traditional mouth-organ used in gagaku, hover over the main titles and the ruined gateway to a lost temple. Cues spun from the tales of the woodcutter and the bandit come next, both filled with mystery and incident, leading to a powerful haunting denouement.

Kurosawa came to regard the most significant role of film music as 'counterpoint', not merely 'accompaniment'; an idea that is perfectly illustrated by Masago. At Kurosawa's instruction, this piece is a refitting of Ravel's 'Bolero', with a snaking oriental melody that builds and sways. It really stands apart from the rest of the score and is therefore placed out of film order in the suite. The genius of this scene as a whole, apart from the magical camera moves and astonishing performance by Machiko Kyo, is that it finds the perfect musical expression for a woman becoming gradually more and more hysterical! What we have is essentially self-dramatising music in the minds of the characters, as they fashion their own stories about what took place.

The concert works Dance Antique and Overture in D are described very well in the booklet note, so I won't go into further detail. I must, however, draw your attention to the final track - Movement in Metamorphosis - an outright masterpiece of slowly unfolding lateral variation - like a landscape, a meditation. Hayasaka pursued what he felt to be the 'infinite form' of Japanese painting; oppositions are eschewed in favour of monothematic, monistic expression. It's really hard to say why I find it so moving. Give it a try :)





Here's hoping in the not-too-distant future more of Hayasaka's classic scores see the light of day. He wrote about 100! The beautiful poetic scores for Mizoguchi (Ugetsu, Sansho the Bailiff, Crucified Lovers) would be a good starting point. They need to be heard! :D

Lens, that post is absolutely outstanding!
Just what I needed to hear and being a fan of Ifukube and Takemitsu I'm almost ashamed I didn't know him.

Hayasaka's scores are incredible. They run the gamut from East to West, from simple rhythms and traditional instruments to full symphonic grandeur, always with sensitivity and intelligence. He's really one of the unsung Greats!

Haven't posted anything in a while, so here we go :)


THE SEVEN SAMURAI
THE ARTISTRY OF FUMIO HAYASAKA
The Japan Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra
Conducted by Tetsuji Honna


Magnificent.
Before this album i could only had the chance to heard a suite of Rashomon, but that contained only the title and the music with dialogue of the "wife version" sequence of the story, and very poor sound quality.
It's in fact my favorite part of the movie, and the use of the music so much similar to Bolero of Ravel helped to add tension and uncertainty for the scene, but is not very pleasant to listen it outside the movie with both the music and dialogue, where is she most of the time yelling. Thanks to this album you shared, i can now listen that music without dialogue, but also some new parts that wasn't contained in the old suite of Rashomon.
I heard the concert works only one time each, and they seemed to be really great. Need to listen more and the whole album aswell. It will be played many times in the next days for sure.

Thank you Lens for posting this. It's a fantastic share.

Haven't posted anything in a while, so here we go :)


THE SEVEN SAMURAI
THE ARTISTRY OF FUMIO HAYASAKA
The Japan Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra
Conducted by Tetsuji Honna


Excellent! I just saw this movie for the first time a while ago and loved the score but haven't had a chance to listen to it by itself. Thank you, Lens!

THE SEVEN SAMURAI
THE ARTISTRY OF FUMIO HAYASAKA
The Japan Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra
Conducted by Tetsuji Honna

I've loved the beauty and dignity of this music for years, but had never managed to find a version with an enjoyable level of AQ. Thanks to you, my search is over, and the concert works are icing on the cake!

Now that you have introduced me to Hayasaka, I am completely enchanted by the music.
I started looking for more recordings in record stores and found this piece.



Fumio Hayasaka
Piano Concerto


http://www.multiupload.com/NOOQXSZMWE

Now that you have introduced me to Hayasaka, I am completely enchanted by the music.
I started looking for more recordings in record stores and found this piece.



Fumio Hayasaka
Piano Concerto


http://www.multiupload.com/NOOQXSZMWE


WOW. I'm halfway through the first movement and this is absolutely incredible!! Thank you very much!

Shadow, you beat me to it! :D


Excellent! I just saw this movie for the first time a while ago and loved the score but haven't had a chance to listen to it by itself.
There's a lot more to Seven Samurai than the portion we get here - the playful light-hearted stuff, Katsushiro and Shino's love music, the reflective cello-led piece for the Entr'acte. It's a little puzzling they didn't go the extra mile isn't it? Given that there's room and it's the headlining work.

There is, however, a longer rerecorded suite available on an out of print album from our good friends V@re$e. It goes for extortionate sums and I hear mixed reports on the quality. Still, I'm going to put my feelers out and if I have any luck I'll be sure to "inform" you :angel:


Before this album i could only had the chance to heard a suite of Rashomon, but that contained only the title and the music with dialogue of the "wife version" sequence of the story, and very poor sound quality.
It's in fact my favorite part of the movie, and the use of the music so much similar to Bolero of Ravel helped to add tension and uncertainty for the scene
Rashomon was actually the first Japanese *film* I ever saw, way back in the early 90s on a fuzzy VHS! The Bolero sequence might also have been one of the first times I really saw the power of film to do something more than just tell a good story, to do something strange and complex - in performance, movement, staging, music. I still get a funny feeling when I watch it :)

Shadow, you beat me to it! :D


The first movement is simply gorgeous. After I got it I knew it had to be posted here.

[edit]

Toru Takemitsu, Toshio Hosokawa, Atsutada Otaka
Orchestral Works
Tadaaki Otaka, Sapporo Symphony Orchestra



http://www.multiupload.com/9NDEMJYPJF

This disc of interesting colourful works begins and ends rather expansively, with abstract pieces that focus on sonority. They're modern but nevertheless approachable. In the middle we have two tasty bitsize suites from Takemitsu: one is the delicate, heart-on-sleeve, melodic music for the TV drama Nami no Bon, and the second represents the sadness and resigned horror of his score for Kurosawa's RAN.

I guarantee, at the very least everyone will fall in love with Nami no Bon. The rest is recommended to those who enjoy subtle expressive orchestrations captured in natural spacious sound.

There's also a charming note by the conductor included in the booklet pdf.
Enjoy! :)

Slight change of tack - while I'm here I thought I'd throw in something I've just cobbled together :) A couple of cues from Nicholas Pike's score for Disney's short The Prince and the Pauper, ripped from dvd, and pitch adjusted to correct for PAL speedup.



http://www.multiupload.com/T3D7J8AHI8

If you can forgive the brief song ;) I think this gives you an idea how great this score is! I reckon there's about 15-20 mins of orchestral music in total and it would make a lovely suite. I did try to use a karaoke program to remove vocals etc from the rest, but it really didn't work :( Huge shame because there's some fantastic action. And I don't think its possible to remove effects from a stereo track is it? Ah well.

Toru Takemitsu, Toshio Hosokawa, Atsutada Otaka
Orchestral Works
Tadaaki Otaka, Sapporo Symphony Orchestra



I like where this thread is going

I like where this thread is going
You mean you like where this thread has been for a while ;)


Another smashing post Lens :). Thats actually a Takemitsu I haven't heard before. I will definitely check it out.

LOST PLANET�
Music by Jaime Christopherson
Gamrip done by Sectus. MP3 Conversion and cover done by myself.




http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JXPIOLNU

Lost Planet� bombed big time. The game was released with more bugs than a hive. It was chaotic, insensible, and overall just one hell of a mess, and a great example of how bigger is rarely better. Even after several days the game is not equal to it's parts.

Capcom did get one thing right, however. They got Jamie Christopherson, the guy who did the music from the first game, to compose the music for Lost Planet�. And what music it is! Completely orchestral, grand and bombastic with every note. There is little subtlety here. It is pure charismatic, grand, and wonderfully written. There are a few moments of rock guitar movements, but they are few, rarely and used in a great way.

In short, this is an awesome example of orchestral music in videogames. The format is MP3 LAME VBR V0. Enjoy!

not exactly great. the music is awesome but the tracks are cut short and you can even tell when it starts looping . maybe there will be better rip next time round.

Thanks, Lens. Always good to have more Takemitsu. :) Really enjoying the other works as well, particularly the Fantasy for Organ and Orchestra.

I'd like to share perhaps my favorite quote regarding organs; the imagery involved has colored my experience listening to them ever since I discovered this passage from Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon:


For the first time in all those years, the boy saw what had been happening when he had been pressing those keys.

For each stop-each timbre, or type of sound, that the organ could make (viz. blockfl�te, trumpet, piccolo)-there was a separate row of pipes, arranged in a line from long to short. Long pipes made low notes, short high. The tops of the pipes defined a graph: not a straight line but an upward-tending curve. The organist/math teacher sat down with a few loose pipes, a pencil, and paper, and helped Lawrence figure out why. When Lawrence understood, it was as if the math teacher had suddenly played the good part of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue in G Minor on a pipe organ the size of the Spiral Nebula in Andromeda-the part where Uncle Johann dissects the architecture of the Universe in one merciless descending ever-mutating chord, as if his foot is thrusting through skidding layers of garbage until it finally strikes bedrock. In particular, the final steps of the organist's explanation were like a falcon's dive through layer after layer of pretense and illusion, thrilling or sickening or confusing depending on what you were. The heavens were riven open. Lawrence glimpsed choirs of angels ranking off into geometrical infinity.

Long time no see, mates. :)

Man, again there's a lot to catch up. *downloading right now* Thanks a lot for the great shares, especially Mr Lens, who DID treat us an awful lot recently.

Tomorrow I'll have some stuff to post too, stuff that may please to some people, I believe.

Thanks, Lens. Always good to have more Takemitsu. :) Really enjoying the other works as well, particularly the Fantasy for Organ and Orchestra.

I'd like to share perhaps my favorite quote regarding organs; the imagery involved has colored my experience listening to them ever since I discovered this passage from Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon:

Mmh... Some good organ / orchestral music to share with us? If so, please be my guest. ;)

Brian May - Sky Pirates
Orchestral|Action|Adventure
MP3 VBR V-0 + Scans (Not my rip)

Download ( http://www.multiupload.com/43R77KIK27)
PSW: smile

After buying Cloak & Dagger, I decided to hunt for more Brian May in the same style and knew this one was going to be fun based on the cover! Check it out and enjoy!

Mmh... Some good organ / orchestral music to share with us? If so, please be my guest. ;)

I have the Levine/Berlin Phil recording of Saint-Saens "Organ Symphony", but I know that another version has already been posted here (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1283350&postcount=481).

Brian May - Sky Pirates
Orchestral|Action|Adventure
MP3 VBR V-0 + Scans (Not my rip)

Great, I didn't know this one - and not much of Brian May, in fact. Thanks a lot, and welcome back! Just tried some tracks, and May has been somewhat "inspired" by Horner!

Btw, the password is "smile" (w/o quotes), for people who haven't figured already.



I have the Levine/Berlin Phil recording of Saint-Saens "Organ Symphony", but I know that another version has already been posted here (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1283350&postcount=481).

Yes, a real masterpiece, one of my favorite symphonies from the late 19th century. Do you happen to know other good organ symphonies or concertos?


Also I wanted to thank Shadow for his numerous recent contributions. I just started listening to your BIG Kilar sampler - amazing stuff.

Btw, about orchestral sampler:


I put together this sampler of some of Wataru Hokoyama's concert works.
I previously uploaded some of his soundtracks here (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1416882&postcount=4311).
Again I can't recommend Afrika enough.


Wataru Hokoyama
Concert Works Sampler

I wanted to ask this for a long time, but forgot. Some of these pieces are really good, even impressive to say the least, and I wondered where you got them, and more importantly, do you happen to have more? Do you have full albums of this composer? If so could you please post some (albums or single pieces) if you can, I'd really appreciate. I'm quite curious about Hokoyama since the revelation of Afrika, which was an unexpected orchestral jewel.

Hi guys and gals - just passing through briefly with a couple of bits of relevant news...

1) Yoshihisa Hirano's brand new score for Break Blade is going to be MAGNIFICENT. The perfect antidote for those who were underwhelmed by Bantorra. (Nice big orchestra, pure unhinged dissonant CHAOS, those wonderfully twisted atonal brass fanfares, piercing piccolo runs, SENSIBLE choral use, lyricism, woodwinds... The lot.) Have a look at this promotional video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2-WpfMxuLQ - it has excerpts from the score. We're going to get another Jeeg and another Death Note both at the same time here. No news on release yet but I'm sure it will come in due course. I have a feeling this may turn out to be Hirano's best score to date. (How wonderful that in Japan we can look forward to a new work by a new composer, and fully expect them to better their very best work?)

2) Kousuke Yamashita is scoring the new Digimon Xros Wars series! This will be his first TV anime for a couple of years and by the sounds of things it's going to be a significant orchestral effort. Very much looking forward to this one!

3) A third soundtrack for Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, by Akira Senju, has just been announced for release on July 7th.

That's it for now - some music to come later I think. :)

Peace
TT

Have a look at this promotional video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2-WpfMxuLQ - it has excerpts from the score.

Why, why the hell did you do this to me? Now I wanna listen to it... BADLY! And probably it will take some time till release... God damn U Tango;P. It really sounds incredibly great (brass! female vocal! awesomness!). So, I guess I'm starting countdown to an unknown date, ehh;).

Why, why the hell did you do this to me? Now I wanna listen to it... BADLY! And probably it will take some time till release... God damn U Tango;P. It really sounds incredibly great (brass!). So, I guess I'm starting countdown to an unknown date, ehh;).

I know; I wish I'd never heard it myself! Being an OVA (and a six parter as well...) it's probably going to be some time. I'm going to go out on a limb and say probably by the end of the year at least, but at the same time I'm not holding my breath. Sometimes they like to wait until the whole series is released before they put out a soundtrack; sometimes it's about halfway through.

[EDIT: OH, F*(�$*&(*&!!!! It looks like the soundtrack CD is being released with the special edition DVD. DAMN. No doubt there will be six DVDs... and six CDs. Hopefully a lot of music... and a completely prohibitive expense since I don't speak Japanese and have no interest in this anime whatsoever... Maybe they'll come out with something, who knows? Anyway, bugger it. Tango can't afford that.]

How many times have you chanced upon an album and found yourself completely unable to enjoy it because of a poor encode, poor recording quality, or both? This music has been posted before in this thread, certainly... but have you ever known me to give you something run of the mill, or ordinary? Read on... ;)

The Orchestral Game Concert series - five discs representing five concerts held in Japan between 1991 and 1996 - are widely considered to contain some of the finest orchestral videogame music arrangements of all time... they are nearly impossible to find, having been out of print for over a decade, and although there are copies floating around online, they vary from mediocre to outright terrible. On top of that, the recording itself is atrocious (most notably on the first concert, but all five have their own problems) - midrange heavy, boxy, unnatural, muddy, and flat.

Oh, what to do...




VARIOUS ARTISTS
Game Music Concert - The Best Selection (aka Orchestral Game Concert 1)

(restored and remastered)

The Tokyo City Philharmonic Orchestra
Kentaro Haneda, Koichi Sugiyama, Kosuke Onozaki, Toshiyuki Watanabe, Yoko Kanno, Reijiro Koroku (conductors)



^^^^^^^^^^^^

Isn't this just the cutest album art ever? I think this must be the orchestra Yoshihisa Hirano used on Bantorra. ;)

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/XE9YWJ77/VA-OGC1.part1.rar
http://uploadmirrors.com/download/SBZTJO9L/VA-OGC1.part2.rar

2010 Remastering from FLAC rips. LAME 3.98.4 -V0. Scans included.

'Nuff said. I have fully restored and remastered the first concert, and it now sounds like an orchestra playing in a concert hall, not inside a washing machine!

I plan to do all of them eventually - the first concert is certainly the worst as far as sound quality goes, however, so the need is less urgent...

If you've only ever heard these albums in their frequently circulating ancient 128kbps rips, or indeed in any recent rip, and you thought they had potential but you couldn't get into it because of the sound quality... Give this a try. Go on. Trust your old friend Tango.

Enjoy :)
TT

Marvelous! Leave it to Tango to remaster such beauty! Thanks so much.
EDIT: Its very subtle but I can hear the difference. I have most of these in good quality mp3, at least the ones that were released by gamemp3s at some point.

Hi guys and gals - just passing through briefly with a couple of bits of relevant news...

1) Yoshihisa Hirano's brand new score for Break Blade is going to be MAGNIFICENT. The perfect antidote for those who were underwhelmed by Bantorra. (Nice big orchestra, pure unhinged dissonant CHAOS, those wonderfully twisted atonal brass fanfares, piercing piccolo runs, SENSIBLE choral use, lyricism, woodwinds... The lot.) Have a look at this promotional video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2-WpfMxuLQ - it has excerpts from the score. We're going to get another Jeeg and another Death Note both at the same time here. No news on release yet but I'm sure it will come in due course. I have a feeling this may turn out to be Hirano's best score to date. (How wonderful that in Japan we can look forward to a new work by a new composer, and fully expect them to better their very best work?)

2) Kousuke Yamashita is scoring the new Digimon Xros Wars series! This will be his first TV anime for a couple of years and by the sounds of things it's going to be a significant orchestral effort. Very much looking forward to this one!

3) A third soundtrack for Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, by Akira Senju, has just been announced for release on July 7th.

That's it for now - some music to come later I think. :)

Peace
TT

God bless Japan indeed, even if only 1% of the country worships Him. Something to be said about the West, when they are less blessed than pagan countries!

I really can't wait for these new scores. If they were just somewhat more affordable to western college students such as myself, I would certainly be having a shelf full of them.

Expect in the next couple of days some compilation of orchestral music from ACE COMBAT 4, 5, and 6. They are mostly made up of orchestral-electronica, but each track has a few compositions that are almost, if not, entirely orchestral. That is what you will be getting in this release.

Great stuff. You'll hopefully see it the same way.

Marvelous! Leave it to Tango to remaster such beauty! Thanks so much.
EDIT: Its very subtle but I can hear the difference. I have most of these in good quality mp3, at least the ones that were released by gamemp3s at some point.

Boring crap alert: The re-equalisation isn't extreme at all, as it often is in so many amateur remastering efforts. The first rule of restoration (which so many people ignore) is do no harm. The second rule (which is also often ignored - with frequently disastrous results) is that you can't create what doesn't exist.

This was achieved with a relatively new technique called harmonic rebalancing. It was perfected by Andrew Rose of Pristine Audio who now uses it to produce utterly miraculous restorations of 78rpm records. The basic idea is that you take an averaged-out equaliser "fingerprint" of a known good recording and of your bad recording. You subtract one from the other, and bingo. A bit of hand-tuning and you're good to go. The result of the subtraction shows you instantly what was wrong with the original recording. (If you're interested, the control "good recording" I used here was Masamichi Amano's Giant Robo scores; a fine example of a well-recorded, well balanced large symphony orchestra playing in a classical concert hall.)

I find it a vast improvement; hope other folk do too. I understand that some people have a certain aversion to remasterings and whatnot, particularly when they're not made by multi-million-dollar studios. Hopefully they'll take a risk and maybe this work will help them get a bit more from these wonderful albums... :)

I think I have heard this Video Game Concert album once but I don't remember it sounding this good, so it seems like you did a wonderful job! Good work, Tango, and thank you!

Isn't this just the cutest album art ever? I think this must be the orchestra Yoshihisa Hirano used on Bantorra. ;)
[/CENTER]

Remaster sounds great :)
I love the timpanist on that cover he looks so cracked out.
We aren't all like that I swear ;)

You play the timpani? One of my favourite instruments of the orchestra! I managed to get my hands on a set of timpani for about thirty seconds a few years back. We have an orchestra at the University I work for and I was passing the concert hall after a rehearsal; everybody had vanished but the instruments were still there. Incredibly good fun; until the conductor reappeared and enquired as to why an IT engineer was beating the living daylights out of his timpani...

Indeed I am a timpanist and I have always loved it. Unfortunately it is poorly used by many score writers today, treating them like they are just bigger toms or something. Its supposed to add richness and fullness to the sound of the orchestra and requires quite a bit of sensitivity to play well. Nothing ruins a score faster for me than hearing timp used as a "nonpitched boomy drum" that they can write endless boring loops for. It would seem intelligent percussion writing has been disappearing for a while. That doesn't mean it can't be complex, Williams and Stravinsky often are extremely complex. It just seems that more and more people put less thought into the percussion aspect of a score than any other section.

Indeed I am a timpanist and I have always loved it. Unfortunately it is poorly used by many score writers today, treating them like they are just bigger toms or something. Its supposed to add richness and fullness to the sound of the orchestra and requires quite a bit of sensitivity to play well. Nothing ruins a score faster for me than hearing timp used as a "nonpitched boomy drum" that they can write endless boring loops for. It would seem intelligent percussion writing has been disappearing for a while. That doesn't mean it can't be complex, Williams and Stravinsky often are extremely complex. It just seems that more and more people put less thought into the percussion aspect of a score than any other section.

It certainly seems that way. The irony is modern scores are absolutely lathered with percussion... of the simplest, most repetitive variety. Intelligent use of the core percussion instruments of the modern symphony (ie timpani, snares, cymbals, bass drum) is almost gone in Western music; in its place we have percussion from the school of "Slam everything in unison, very loudly, and in a simple, repeating rhythym!" epicness that makes my blood boil.

The humble timp can be heroic, noble, suspenseful, mysterious... it can even be romantic as a part of an appropriate arrangement.

I first learned just what the timpani could do with Nielsen's 4th symphony. Since then it's been my favourite percussion instrument (and that's including the pianoforte in its technically correct, if slightly bizzare, place as a member of the percussion section) of the orchestra and one of my favourite instruments full stop.

Toru Takemitsu, Toshio Hosokawa, Atsutada Otaka
Orchestral Works
Tadaaki Otaka, Sapporo Symphony Orchestra

Another fine album that you shared Lens. I'm listening Nami no bon segment, and is very sweet.
Thank you. :)

Quick question: has the 2012 soundtrack been posted?

The reason why I'm asking this is that I've recently purchased it and as it has been a while since the movie and soundtrack got released it might be an appropriate time for an upload as the soundtrack leaves the increasingly tiny "soundtrack" aisle.

Quick question: has the 2012 soundtrack been posted?

The reason why I'm asking this is that I've recently purchased it and as it has been a while since the movie and soundtrack got released it might be an appropriate time for an upload as the soundtrack leaves the increasingly tiny "soundtrack" aisle.

As in, that Thomas WANKER (by name, by nature - deed poll won't help you there, sunshine) and Harald Kloser affair for the Emmerich movie? I'm fairly sure it's been posted once or twice on the forum, but not in this thread...

Thomasdaly, here�s your requested selection of anime music similar to the piece you mentioned (Beet The Vandel Buster Animation Soundtrack - Confrontation~ A Desperate Situation, Be Driven Into A Corner).

I call this selection the EXTREME UPBEAT ORCHESTRAL MUSIC PACK, because all these pieces are incredibly energetic, lively and powerful. You have to listen to this to believe it! I even consider some tracks here as the best of Anime Action Music ("Glide! Pegasus" is an absolute masterpiece).

If you want more, I could upload some next week.


Akihiko Yoshida - Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger Symphonic Fantasy - Dragonranger Ayawaru!.mp3
Akihiko Yoshida - Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger Symphonic Fantasy - Onna Senshi Lami.mp3
Akihiko Yoshida - Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger Symphonic Fantasy - Seinaru Go Hito.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Precure Max Heart 2 Movie - Yuuki Wo Yuriokoshite.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Splash Star - Gekitou! Pretty Cure Vs Dark Fall.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Splash Star - Pretty Cure No Kiki !~ Dai Gyakuten.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Splash Star - Pretty Cure Splash Stars -Stars No Theme-.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Splash Star - Pretty Cure Toujou !~ Dai Pinchi.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Max Heart - Mezameru Atarashii Chikara.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Max Heart - Precure Henshin Maxheart!.mp3
Naoki Sato - Futari Wa Pretty Cure Max Heart - Sparkle Breath.mp3
Naoki Sato - Yes!! Pretty Cure 5 - Precure Sound Dream!! - Itsutsu No Kokoro! Precure 5!.mp3
Naoki Sato - Yes!! Pretty Cure 5 - Precure Sound Dream!! - Metamorphose!.mp3
Naoki Sato - Yes!! Pretty Cure 5 - Precure Sound Dream!! - Otome No Chikara, Uketeminasai!.mp3
Seiji Yokoyama - Saint Seiya - Burn Cosmo.mp3
Seiji Yokoyama - Saint Seiya - Galaxian Wars.mp3
Seiji Yokoyama - Saint Seiya - Gilde! Pegasus.mp3
Tanaka Kouhei - Angelic Layer - Angelic Fight!!.mp3
Tatuya Hirakawa - Mahou Sentai Magiranger - It's On Magi! (Bgm) .mp3
Tatuya Hirakawa - Mahou Sentai Magiranger - We Are The Magic Kings! .mp3
Toshikiko Sahashi - Gundam Seed Destiny - Kira, Sono Kokoro No Mama Ni.mp3
Toshikiko Sahashi - Kidou Senshi Gundam Seed - Saikisen.mp3
Yamamoto Kenji - Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger Symphonic Fantasy - Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger.mp3
Yamashita Kousuke - Shion no Ou - Destiny ~Symphonic Version~.mp3


http://rapidshare.com/files/159192876/Extreme_Upbeat_Orchestral.zip


Enjoy the awesomeness! :)

I know this was posted way back in the start of the thread, but i just found this place while i was looking for the beet ost and I wanted to say thanks for such a wonderful selection. I guess I'll be making this a regular place :)

Great work on the remaster TT. Are these spruce-up jobs available to order? ;)

Thank you Tango for the excellent Game Concert.
I was desperately trying to get my hands on a quality rip of the concerts but they were impossible for me to find.
The only things I've found were terrible rips or broken files so if you would be so kind to share the other concerts with us you would be my saviour ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqnaUvdzbdU
OST 3 of FMA: Brotherhood is indeed something to really look forward to, thanks for reminding me, Tango.

Thanks for the Game Concert Tango.
Like kinerfan, i searched for better quality of this ;)
Hope the other Volumes coming soon with more funny covers ;)

Link:Deleted in consideration to Mr Verta.

Link: http://www.xxx.xxx

Courtesy of :
http://zzz.zzz

:rolleyes:

I fear someone we know will be upset to see this here

Unless that's his alt account... someone check the IPs

:disgust:

Japonero: I'm flattered, but this doesn't actually help things, believe it or not. My score hasn't been out for very long - pirating at this stage merely proves the cynics right - the cynical producers and executives who feel spending money on good scores and live orchestras isn't worth it. In addition to the preview clips, I have streamed the score on several occasions so people know what they're getting before parting with hard-earned money. Since this is quite literally the way my bills get paid, do me a favor and 1) Pull the links and 2) Buy the score if you like it. If you're a soundtrack fan, give them a fighting chance.

Thanks,

_Mike

Y'know, I would not be surprised that will be the first and last time we see of our dear japonero.

A few days back, I posted that quote about the organ but didn't really have a new piece to share. But yesterday I came across this:


AARON COPLAND
Symphony No. 3; Symphony for Organ & Orchestra
E. Power Biggs, organ
The New York Philharmonic conducted by Leonard Bernstein

LAME 3.98r -v0|108 MB




As a newcomer to these works myself, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert. Of course, I'm familiar with Copland's Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, Fanfare for the Common Man, and Lincoln Portrait. His name is synonymous with the "American" sound in concert music, so pervasive is his influence. I've been looking to find more of Copland's work, and when I stumbled across this CD -- both with Leonard Bernstein conducting and the intriguing "Symphony for Organ & Orchestra" -- I knew it would be too good to pass up.

From the liner notes:

Symphony No. 3 -- "It is a forty-minute work of epic proportions in which the composer quite evidently set about to consolidate all of his musical discoveries. Latin and North American folk and popularist sources without resort to direct thematic quotation. At the same time, the composer's predilection for the musical abstract is substantially present in the work. And Copland's typically tight-structured approach to musical form broadens out onto an uncharacteristically expansive symphonic canvas. The latter effect derived in part from the composer's perennial fascination with much of Mahler's work and, perhaps, as has been noted by other critics, by a more disciplined extension of a direction suggested by the ambitious symphonies of Shostakovich. Finally, the essentially optimistic, mass-addressed, outgoing gesture of much of the work is pointedly symbolized by Copland's use of his own Fanfare for the Common Man as a substantive thematic element and final peroration in the last movement."

Symphony for Organ & Orchestra -- " 'Ladies and gentlemen, I am sure you will agree that if such a gifted young man can write a symphony like this at twenty-three, within five years he will be ready to commit murder!' It was January 11, 1925, and [conductor Walter] Damrosch had just led the first performance at Aeolian Hall, New York City. The Stravinsky- and French-influenced score was bold, brash and ambitious, and Damrosch's humorously intended remark had been a way of, as Copland put it, 'smoothing the ruffled feathers of his conservative Sunday afternoon ladies.' [...] The piece gained instant notoriety for Copland as a dissonant modernist and, following a Chicago performance, a local critic offered this colorful precis: 'It begins with a reverie, breaks into a squalling scherzo and ends screaming like a bewildered banshee which by some twist of locale has found itself at the Wailing Wall." On a side note, a few years later, Copland rescored this piece without the organ and retitled it "Symphony No. 1."

Both of these can be a little demanding of the listener, but if they seem inaccessible in their entirety, the fourth movement of the Third Symphony and the scherzo of the Organ Symphony are probably easiest to digest. But I would suggest listening to the whole disc, especially the Organ Symphony.

Enjoy. :)

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0VXFNYA3/C-S3-SOO.zip.001
http://uploadmirrors.com/download/L5QCQDHD/C-S3-SOO.zip.002
Password: tazed

pulled the links ~

ps: tell your wife i so had a lesbian crush on from watching nick at nite when i was little ~

[CENTER]AARON COPLAND
Symphony No. 3; Symphony for Organ & Orchestra
E. Power Biggs, organ
The New York Philharmonic conducted by Leonard Bernstein


Thanks for this post. I have been wanting to hear more copland. Soon I will post some music by another fairly recent composer that is quite difficult listen as well from a box conducted by the composer himself. I want to finish listening to it before posting though :)

Benjamin Britten conducts Britten Volume 4 Discs 1 and 2
Orchestral|Classical|Dark
MP3 VBR V-0
Disc 1 - Concerto for Piano Op. 13; Concerto for Violin Op. 15
English Chamber Orchestra - Sviatoslav Richter (Piano), Mark Lubotsky (Violin)
Disc 2 - Cello Symphony Op. 68 (English Chamber Orchestra Mstislav Rostropovich (Cello));
Sinfonia da Requiem Op. 20 (New Philharmonic Orchestra);
Cantata Misericordium (London Symphony Orchestra and Chorus)


Download Disc 1 (http://www.multiupload.com/GQCK62LXOA)
Download Disc 2 (http://www.multiupload.com/UD7LH17JPS)
PSW: smile

Despite all the hype surrounding many modern composers, I have found some to be far too much for me to digest (shostakovich and stravinsky in particular) while enjoying the works of others (Prokofiev, Sibelius, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc) so I found this box set [which I will post more from later] and wasn't sure what to expect.

My first reaction to the piano concerto was that it was something different than I usually listen to but despite that, I was entranced and intrigued by the emotions it created within me. I kept listening and found the entirety of the first two discs of this set to be powerful while at the same time deeply sad and tragic.

I hope you will listen to this and see for yourself if it brings you the same feelings. I am listening to the rest of the discs before posting them and may even buy this set if they are as powerful as the first two. I also want to bring special attention to the final piece from disc 2, Cantata Misericordium, which is a powerfully moving choral piece.

Nice Sirus and Tazer. I already know most of these pieces but still great, for people who don't. I'm sure a lot of people aren't familiar with Britten.

pulled the links ~

ps: tell your wife i so had a lesbian crush on from watching nick at nite when i was little ~

Thank you... will do!

_Mike

Just a question, anyone here know how to find out when/or if a soundtrack would be released? There is an anime that just recently finished its run, 'Tatami Galaxy' (Yojo-han Shinwa Taikei). The soundtrack was done by Michiru Ooshima, whom I think there are a few fans of on this thread. I tried CDJapan under future releases, but there doesn't seem to be anything listed.

Thanks.

Scratch that, I just found it. It is out August 18.

The Olympic Hymn.
According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Anthem), this piece was originnaly created by a Greek composer named Spyridon Samaras, with lyrics of Kostis Palamas.



It is a very beautiful piece of music in my opinion. I especially like the part (at 1:24 - 2:05 of the A cappella version, for example), right before the end of the Hymn.
I posted on the zip file, 3 different versions:

- Olympic Hymn (A cappella)
- Olympic Hymn (Instrumental only)
- Olympic Hymn (With Chorus and Orchestra)

Download (http://rapidshare.com/files/191738214/Olympic_Hymn.zip)

The rapidshare link is dead. Any chance of a re-up? I'd be interested in hearing these. (also, maybe re-posted in the Olympic music thread?:
http://forums.ffshrine.org/showthread.php?p=1502596&posted=1#post1502596 )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01s3qAEpvs

Debney surely knows how to score a Predator Movie. Pure Fan-Service.
I really enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01s3qAEpvs

Debney surely knows how to score a Predator Movie. Pure Fan-Service.
I really enjoy it.

Awesome! It's almost a good impression of the Silvestri it's ripped off from! Too bad Silvestri's dead (apparently); he would've been a good call for this movie, inasmuch as anything decent in the music is literally from his score. By the way - the bit at 1:13 is as comical as anything Peter Schickele ever did. For those of you who want to know what it sounds like when a composer has absolutely nothing to say and can't sustain development for more than 5 seconds, this is an ideal example. When he mercifully tires of repeating the same bar over and over, he concludes the "statement" with Silvestri's original motif, note-for-note, off the page. That's how modern "composers" write now.

Hey film music fans: don't look now, but the Fourth Horseman rode by a while ago.


_Mike

By the way - the bit at 1:13 is as comical as anything Peter Schickele ever did.

Ahh good old P.D.Q. Bach. At least he didn't use a pastaphone or tromboon. ;)
(actually I would like to see someone use a pastaphone in a score sometime just as a joke)




Hey film music fans: don't look now, but the Fourth Horseman rode by a while ago.
...... :(

By the way, Congratulations on your recent commission. Sounds like a wonderful honor.

Thanks, and yes, I think today I'm going to listen to the 1712 Overture. :)

_Mike

Awesome! It's almost a good impression of the Silvestri it's ripped off from! Too bad Silvestri's dead (apparently); he would've been a good call for this movie, inasmuch as anything decent in the music is literally from his score. By the way - the bit at 1:13 is as comical as anything Peter Schickele ever did. For those of you who want to know what it sounds like when a composer has absolutely nothing to say and can't sustain development for more than 5 seconds, this is an ideal example. When he mercifully tires of repeating the same bar over and over, he concludes the "statement" with Silvestri's original motif, note-for-note, off the page. That's how modern "composers" write now.

Hey film music fans: don't look now, but the Fourth Horseman rode by a while ago.


_Mike

I don�t think you have the right to critizise Debneys work for being UNORIGINAL. Thats all i�m gonna say. :-P
I like good variations.

I don�t think you have the right to critizise Debneys work for being UNORIGINAL. Thats all i�m gonna say. :-P
I like good variations.

I think he was actually criticising Debney's work for being unimaginative, poorly developed, generic, by-the-numbers, and completely overshadowed in quality by the score to which it is paying respect. Compared to these crimes, Mike's (having an orchestral style reminiscent of one of the finest composers of all time, and of occasionally quoting them a little freely in homage) seem rather weak. ;)

Nobody said that every time you build a new car, you have to re-invent the wheel. It's where the wheel takes you that matters.

Nobody said that every time you build a new car, you have to re-invent the wheel. It's where the wheel takes you that matters.

Tango the philosopher
And just wasn't saying it was the worst thing in the world, I just think that the best parts are the silvestri parts...I wonder why they didn't get him. Does anyone know the story?

Tango the philosopher

Tango the annoying condescending asshole as well, I imagine... ;)

I think he was actually criticising Debney's work for being unimaginative, poorly developed, generic, by-the-numbers, and completely overshadowed in quality by the score to which it is paying respect. Compared to these crimes, Mike's (having an orchestral style reminiscent of one of the finest composers of all time, and of occasionally quoting them a little freely in homage) seem rather weak. ;)

Nobody said that every time you build a new car, you have to re-invent the wheel. It's where the wheel takes you that matters.

I only didn�t like the SIlvestri Rip-off part comment. Everything else is surely true.

Tango the philosopher
And just wasn't saying it was the worst thing in the world, I just think that the best parts are the silvestri parts...I wonder why they didn't get him. Does anyone know the story?

Maybe he was busy with ATeam.

Tango the annoying condescending asshole as well, I imagine... ;)

Haha thats a given friend ;)

I wouldn't mind the lack of originality if Debney's music was music. Horner is a thief, but he can also write music if he feels like it, in stark contrast. This offering is offensively poor.


Nobody said that every time you build a new car, you have to re-invent the wheel. It's where the wheel takes you that matters.

Actually, at this point I don't care if you remake a car bolt-for-bolt, so long as it actually runs well, which is not what we have here.


_Mike

I wouldn't mind the lack of originality if Debney's music was music. Horner is a thief, but he can also write music if he feels like it, in stark contrast. This offering, however, is offensively poor.


_Mike

Ok, this track is really simple. Let us wait for the film/complete score if the whole thing is better or only a quilty pleasure.

I expect Silvestri could've fit it in if he wanted to... As far as I know (all this is without references) Silvestri was asked but declined for whatever reason, and as Debney frequently collaborated wth Rodriquez, he was the logical choice.

And... even if Mike was the biggest thief on the planet; if his exploits bettered even James Horner's in terms of mindless plagiarism... that would not change the fact that what he said was valid.

"You're a thief, therefore you have no right to identify this person - who is clearly also a thief - as guilty of the same crime."

My grandad used to use that excuse to prevent me from criticising his driving. When he did something blatantly wrong, dangerous, illegal, or all three, and I complained, he would tell me that I had absolutely no right to comment as I hadn't taken my driving test. "I have a driving licence; you don't. Shut your mouth or get the bus." was usually what he said.

It didn't work then... and it doesn't work now. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01s3qAEpvs

Debney surely knows how to score a Predator Movie. Pure Fan-Service.
I really enjoy it.

last half sounds exactly like Silvestri's music from The Abyss, the part where the underwater rig is being dragged across the ocean floor....

Yes, even being a hypocrite doesn't make one wrong. I can think of no greater expert to espouse the dangers of pedophilia than a pedophile in prison. Yes, we're discussing Debney's work and pedophilia in the same breath. They both exploit childish things.


Ok, this track is really simple. Let us wait for the film/complete score if the whole thing is better or only a quilty pleasure.

I've heard the entire score. This IS the entire score.


_Mike

Yes, even being a hypocrite doesn't make one wrong. I can think of no greater expert to espouse the dangers of pedophilia than a pedophile in prison. Yes, we're discussing Debney's work and pedophilia in the same breath. They both exploit childish things.

_Mike

I'm afraid that one made me laugh...

..was pretty good, right? :)


_Mike

That made me crack up, I'll admit it.


Anyway I would like to bring peoples attention to a horribly overlooked score (at least considering the composer and era).


Monsignor
John Williams


Sample (http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/6/24/2487612//09 Santonis Confession.mp3)

http://www.multiupload.com/BSES10ASMA

I'm not sure but I think Intrada still has a few copies left, if you like it.

Monsignor John Williams. I like it. :)


_Mike

After the Harald Closer mess called AvP i�m really glad that it has the Predator sound, if nothing else.btw i�m gonna jump off the next bridge if david arnolds narnia3 score is unremarkable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01s3qAEpvs

Debney surely knows how to score a Predator Movie. Pure Fan-Service.
I really enjoy it.

This is a *little* too close to Silvestri's original score to be acceptable. In 2010, one could have expected some real freshness, a new direction of some sort. Instead Debney just seems to have cut and pasted Silvestri's great effort. Frankly, when I listened to this, I said to myself that I'd rather listen to the original score, which was in fact better and at least original.



When he mercifully tires of repeating the same bar over and over, he concludes the "statement" with Silvestri's original motif, note-for-note, off the page. That's how modern "composers" write now.

In Debney's defense, I have to say that most Predator scores from the very 1st one were ostinato-heavy, rhythmically very insistent. That's just the musical style of this series, I guess.

But ostinato and development aren't mutually exclusive - it only seems that way because most composers today do one without the other. The first Predator suffered from a bit of ham-handed music editing, but the stretches the score as-recorded were in the picture demonstrate developmental fluidity and sophistication even inside a deliberately single-minded set of motifs. That's part of why it was so effective. It's worth a re-listen, for contrast.

_Mike

But ostinato and development aren't mutually exclusive

I never said the opposite. In fact I already mentionned here several times how much I enjoy some good ostinato writing in music - one of the reasons why I like so much composers like Sahashi, who actually excel at such technique. The original Predator is also a pretty good example.

It's true that Debney's piece doesn't really show a brilliant sense of developpment, indeed.


And thanks for the last uploads!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01s3qAEpvs

Debney surely knows how to score a Predator Movie. Pure Fan-Service.
I really enjoy it.

This totally lacks the "oomph" of Silvestri's original, like a Xerox running low on toner. :(

Slight change of tack - while I'm here I thought I'd throw in something I've just cobbled together :) A couple of cues from Nicholas Pike's score for Disney's short The Prince and the Pauper, ripped from dvd, and pitch adjusted to correct for PAL speedup.



http://www.multiupload.com/T3D7J8AHI8

THANKS FOR THIS!!!!! I'VE SEARCHED MP3's OF THIS SCORE FOR A LONG TIME!! :D

:disgust:

Japonero: I'm flattered, but this doesn't actually help things, believe it or not. My score hasn't been out for very long - pirating at this stage merely proves the cynics right - the cynical producers and executives who feel spending money on good scores and live orchestras isn't worth it. In addition to the preview clips, I have streamed the score on several occasions so people know what they're getting before parting with hard-earned money. Since this is quite literally the way my bills get paid, do me a favor and 1) Pull the links and 2) Buy the score if you like it. If you're a soundtrack fan, give them a fighting chance.

Thanks,

_Mike



I am sorry Mr Verta.
I am a internet navigator only who found the link in a blog that is not mine.
Only can remove the link from this forum.

And you know what guys? I don't give a shit about any Predator score - neither Silvestri's ('cause it is unlistenable piece of music, yet very effective in movie and with great theme, but still unlistenable, at least for me) nor Debney ('cause it's... Debney - guy of one score;)). So why I'm writing it? Dunno. Shoot me;).

I don't know if I agree with you on Debney having only one score.
Which one were you talking about Cutthroat? Personally I enjoy Cutthroat and Lair alot. I seem to remember liking the Zuthura score and the Passion Symphony had some nice moments.

Its true though that he isn't consistently good.

And you know what guys? I don't give a shit about any Predator score - neither Silvestri's ('cause it is unlistenable piece of music, yet very effective in movie and with great theme, but still unlistenable, at least for me) nor Debney ('cause it's... Debney - guy of one score;)). So why I'm writing it? Dunno. Shoot me;).

See I used to think that Silvestri's original was unlistenable but since then I forced myself to listen to it completely and loved it. What can you say :P Also thanks to that ultraman blog I found some Sahashi that hasn't been posted yet. I will put it up soon.


Toshihiko Sahashi - Ultraman Mebius and Ultraman Brothers Original Soundtrack
MP3 192kbps|95MB|Fully tagged|

For this score, Sahashi uses classic ultraman themes by Kunio Miyauchi and Toru Fuyuki as well as a brief quote from Masanobu Higure's Ultraman Taro. Of course Sahashi also uses his own themes from Ultraman Mebius. I haven't listened to this yet but as it is Sahashi, I suspect it will be great.
Download (http://www.multiupload.com/WKWZ274T0R)
PSW: smile

OR 320kbps version posted by Arthierr
Download (http://rapidshare.com/files/393824537/Ultraman_Mebius___The_Ultra_Brothers.rar)

Believe me, I tried to like Predator (U know, it's classic etc.), but I just couldn't. It's really fantastic when it comes to create mood (music is almost organic), but when comes to stand alone listening experience... Not so nice;).

And yes, I was talking about Cutthroat Island, which is the only Debney score about which I can say (without any doubts) that it's good. And indeed Lair is cool (even if full of "inspirations"). Passion on the other hand was incredibly bland, never actually listened to the whole thing. Debney is one of those people who can wirte music, but he can't put his heart in it. I guess it's just work for him.

After the Harald Closer mess called AvP i�m really glad that it has the Predator sound, if nothing else.btw i�m gonna jump off the next bridge if david arnolds narnia3 score is unremarkable.

David Arnold is usually a win-win when it comes to orchestral scores. I'm not worried about the score being horrible even if it his first fantasy epic outing. I find Arnold to be very underrated as a composer and his music for the Bond films are exceptional imo!

Thanks for Monsignor from Williams :)

I'd be enthusistic about Narnia, but let's be honest. What we're hoping for is another Stargate, or another Independence Day. We're not going to get it. We don't even know if Arnold can still write like that. Arnold himself even wonders if he's going to be able to recapture his old sound.

Add to that the dubious honour of writing the third score in a series which has a previously established musical style courtesy of Harry Gregson-Williams... combined with the fact that this is 2010 and realistically we're just not going to get a sudden miraculous return to good old-fashioned symphonic scoring.

This is going to be Arnold lite. It's going to be good enough to better Gregson-Williams' efforts. It's going to be good enough to make us think "Cor, David Arnold used to be really good."

It's not going to be any good in itself though. I'll now put my crystal ball away.

Hi,

With all the music that's been shared here, I wanted to contribute something in my own, small way. I hope this hasn't been posted before, but I don't remember seeing it.

These are 3 pieces from shows at Epcot at Walt Disney World. The first is Reflections Of Earth and is one of my favorites. It's the first movement from the nighttime fireworks, lasers and fountain show IllumiNations that happens every night. This show has been running for 10 years. The second piece is We Go On and is the ending from the same show. It does have lyrics, but the music is still nice. The third piece is Tapestry of Nations and is the longest selection. It came from a parade that I don't even think they do anymore. The opening is nice, but then gets pretty repetetive for the rest of the piece.

It's not much, but I hope everyone likes it. Ripped at 320.

Epcot Shows (http://hotfile.com/dl/48322421/0660810/EpcotShows.zip.html)

Pathfire

Hey, thanks for this one! I previously only found "Tapestry of Nations" by Gavin Greenaway (and posted it in one of my compilations here). Good to have the other pieces as well.



Sirusjr - Thanks for this Ultraman score. In fact, some weeks ago I already uploaded a 320k version of it, but didn't have time to post it! So you can replace the link to the 192k version with this one:


http://rapidshare.com/files/393824537/Ultraman_Mebius___The_Ultra_Brothers.rar

Awesome! It's almost a good impression of the Silvestri it's ripped off from! Too bad Silvestri's dead (apparently); he would've been a good call for this movie, inasmuch as anything decent in the music is literally from his score. By the way - the bit at 1:13 is as comical as anything Peter Schickele ever did. For those of you who want to know what it sounds like when a composer has absolutely nothing to say and can't sustain development for more than 5 seconds, this is an ideal example. When he mercifully tires of repeating the same bar over and over, he concludes the "statement" with Silvestri's original motif, note-for-note, off the page. That's how modern "composers" write now.

Hey film music fans: don't look now, but the Fourth Horseman rode by a while ago.


_Mike


Any Silvestri quotes are intentional and are meant to pay homage as well as some sort of consistentcy. Check out this interview.

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=5724

I, for one, am really looking forward to this score.

JamesC

Believe me, I tried to like Predator (U know, it's classic etc.), but I just couldn't. It's really fantastic when it comes to create mood (music is almost organic), but when comes to stand alone listening experience... Not so nice;).

And yes, I was talking about Cutthroat Island, which is the only Debney score about which I can say (without any doubts) that it's good. And indeed Lair is cool (even if full of "inspirations"). Passion on the other hand was incredibly bland, never actually listened to the whole thing. Debney is one of those people who can wirte music, but he can't put his heart in it. I guess it's just work for him.

Ha, Predator... I was so much fascinated by the music that I watched several times the movie just to listen to it! Its power, nervousness, and foreboding ambience make it one of the most effective action scores I've heard. The movie (which btw I enjoy) benefitted an awful lot of Silvestri's tremendous effort.

As we speak of it, does someone please have the Predator 10th anniversary edition in 320K? Looked for it to no avail.



About Debney, Seaquest, Lair and Cutthroat Island are my 3 favorites. IMO 3 absolutly marvelous scores, probably the highlights of his career. The man has a ton of talent, and some genuine orchestral skills, but 1) produces too much to be able to be really original, 2) he's forced to conform himself to the mediocre standards of Hollywood's modern scoring. He sure can do a lot better if he really has the opportunity to - because he already did, right?

Well the 192 is very good sound quality too or I wouldn't have posted it but thanks for posting the 320 version as well Arthierr :D

Could you at least edit your post to add my 320k upload as an alternative DL, then? In its current state, most people will just miss it.

It's important to aim for higher quality when posting something, I believe.

edited :)

Thanks :)

Ultraman Mebius and Ultraman Brothers has got some really good, inspired themes, as usual with Sahashi. People won't be disappointed by this aspect.

The problem is elsewhere, it's in repetitiveness! Man, the same themes and motifs are repeated again and again so many times, often with almost no substantial variation. It becomes a bit boring after a few listens actually, even though Sahashi's heroic tunes are quite catchy.

Anyway, this score is a must-listen for any Ultraman and / or Sahashi fan. And I guess there are *some* in this thread!

Any Silvestri quotes are intentional and are meant to pay homage as well as some sort of consistentcy.
JamesC

I'd say that was rather obvious, no? What with producers not being particularly fond of theft and copyright infringement lawsuits and everything. That he intentionally copied some measures off of Silvestri's score doesn't change the fact that as soon as the Silvestri stuff stops, the suck starts. I honestly can't fathom one being unable to hear the difference. I have been in the position, professionally, of having to use another composer's work (Danny Elfman's), while integrating it into my own and in my own style, and while that may be inherently "loaded," even difficult, it's entirely possible to do while maintaining a consistent level musicality. This ain't it.


_Mike

I'd say that was rather obvious, no? What with producers not being particularly fond of theft and copyright infringement lawsuits and everything. That he intentionally copied some measures off of Silvestri's score doesn't change the fact that as soon as the Silvestri stuff stops, the suck starts. I honestly can't fathom one being unable to hear the difference. I have been in the position, professionally, of having to use another composer's work (Danny Elfman's), while integrating it into my own and in my own style, and while that may be inherently "loaded," even difficult, it's entirely possible to do while maintaining a consistent level musicality. This ain't it.

_Mike

That Batman score was actually my very first experience with your music, Mike. At the time (and now) I considered it a fine example of how one man can work with another man's raw material and still create something new and inherently his own. (Indeed, I remember shoving it down my fiancee's throat [the music, you understand] accompanied by my usual "why do guys like this score simulator rides whilst Zimmer Co Ltd Inc get rich and famous off of big blockbusters" rant that you've all heard so many times.)

The principal melody may be Elfman's but the manner and language in which it is sung is Verta's; even during outright statements of the theme.

I think it's fascinating when a composer takes on somebody else's material. Strangely enough, the contrast gives me a very specific perspective on the composer's style... I wish I could explain why. If I were expressing it mathematically, Verta's Impression Of Elfman minus Elfman = Verta, or X-Y=Z. If you discover X and you already know what Y is, it's easy to calculate Z. The alternative formula - trying to calculate a composer's individual personality based on his work alone - is much more elusive: "What is Z?"

I remember five years ago (before I'd started her training) my fiancee knew she loved Jerry's music, but if I played her Supergirl and then played her Star Trek TMP, she wouldn't know it was the same guy. She hadn't been exposed to sufficient Jerry in order to get the "imprint" so to speak. Fast forward to 2010, after I've force-fed her just about every Jerry score I have (ie, all of them) now she can readily identify POTA and The Burbs as different parts of the same personality.

I have completely wavered off topic, once again. My apologies.

*goes to bed with a headache*

The truth is, any competent composer should be able to do fairly dead-on "impressions" of other composers, which means speaking your words in their voices. It won't be as pure, and thus likely without the same impact, but when you truly understand the harmonic and orchestrational disciplines, it's not difficult to approximate others' work.

This is what makes the Debney music so laughable. The instant he's not literally quoting off the page, he clearly has absolutely no idea what to do, because he does not understand it musically. It's akin to an impressionist who does Schwarzenegger, but can only do the exact lines of his from his movies. And he's not even a great impressionist. I've heard the entire new Predators score, and you can hear, like light switches turning off and on, the moments Debney needs to contend with a superior composer.

Just about everybody knows this shit about most guys working today; knows the emperors have no clothes. Sometimes ya just gotta say it; sometimes you lean into the strike zone. ESPECIALLY in this thread, where every other upload is fantastic, and representative of talent and ability orders of magnitude superior to what people are being scammed with today.


_Mike

I have to bring everyone's attention to TWO new Intrada releases. Yes I rarely update this thread with Intrada's releases but holy crap I LOVE the samples of these two babies (DAMN YOU INTRADA) [There goes $50 I wasn't planning on but I will love it when I get the discs] Anyway, this week we have two titles, one by Jerry Fielding (copying Prokofiev like he does in Serpico) and one Laurence Rosenthal (who you may remember from The Miracle Worker I posted recently)


First we have Black Bird that sounds like such a wonderful playful rousing score almost comedic in its presentation and brilliant use of 70s synthesizer as if it is its own instrument rather than something to drown the orchestra with. I'm told the same frantic section in the opening and ending titles is used in Serpico and they are taken from Prokofiev's Piano sonata number 3. Such energy and happy times from the samples drove me to order!


Then we have the lush, extravagant, romantic George Washington over two discs each over 50 minutes long! The americana styled themes and beauty reminds me of the amazing North and South by Bill Conti and now this will add two more discs to my already SEVEN amazing discs of North and South (if i were to consider them an extension of the other work). I am told that 1500 copy Fielding scores sell out very quickly and one can only guess how fast George Washington will sell out [The last Laurence Rosenthal 1000 copy title went extremely fast].

I hope those of you here who are interested by my descriptions will check out the samples and see for yourself if these titles are worthy to add to your library. Per the rules I suggested, I will not post these titles in this thread until they happen to sell out.

I'd be enthusistic about Narnia, but let's be honest. What we're hoping for is another Stargate, or another Independence Day. We're not going to get it. We don't even know if Arnold can still write like that. Arnold himself even wonders if he's going to be able to recapture his old sound.

I don't know if David Arnold can still write like he did when he scored crappy Emmerich movies, but "Casino Royale" was awesome. "Quantum" was mediocre, but the movie itself wasn't very inspiring anyway. I have high hopes for the new Narnia, both the movie and the music.


And yes, I was talking about Cutthroat Island, which is the only Debney score about which I can say (without any doubts) that it's good.

I kind of liked "Iron Man 2," but that score has nothing on Djawadi's. The new Predator movie seems to be setting off my "suck detector," but that's nothing new for this year's blockbuster season.

David Arnold is usually a win-win when it comes to orchestral scores. I'm not worried about the score being horrible even if it his first fantasy epic outing. I find Arnold to be very underrated as a composer and his music for the Bond films are exceptional imo!

Speaking of first fantasy epic outings, how about that Don Davis? Whatever happened to him?

..I considered it a fine example of how one man can work with another man's raw material and still create something new and inherently his own.

I've always considered the Elfman Batman theme an "extrapolation" of Herrmann. Why didn't Zimmer pick up the thread (nob!)?

I have to agree with herbaciak (what's come over me??! ;)), Debney seems to be far too much the 'composer for hire'.. without passion, without conviction, without a voice. I don't give a shit about pressures etc. If this is the constant reference point for expression today we may as well give up! Even Cutthroat Island is rather bland in the broader context. There's talent there, granted, but no little to no inspiration. If we go on technical facility alone then we're left in a sorry state - just as we are if we ignore it.

Tango mate, I never want to hear you appologise for going 'OT' again. Your digressions are the lifeblood of the thread! You lost me at the algebra tho. :S

Sirus, those scores are very appetising. I've been neglecting new releases recently and haven't listened to samples of either, but I'm already predesposed to be excited :)

Fielding = :swoon:

Rosenthal's 'George Washington', if Broughton's sequel is anything to go by, should be marvelous. Thanks for the notice.

[Apologies for the unvarnished rum-fueled post! - uploads coming soon..]

EDIT: Narnia... You know, the first Narnia score was one of the most dispiriting cine-musical experiences I've ever had! Yes, the film was a petulant soulless turd, but the score was atrocious! Arnold is an improvement on HGW as far as I'm concerned, but I've never been a fan of his.

And, indeed, where is Don Davis? Composing an epic for the Wachowski's next pretentious cod-philosophical behemoth? We can only hope.

Striech, Don Davis doesn't like to be in the spotlight. He does other stuff such as orchestrating for Toy Story 3 and doing non film related odd jobs. He recently wrote an opera too. A times he has reappeared to compose a score for a crappy project just for the money and he doesn't really try. Its a shame judging by what he can do when he wants to.


Here is a link to his new opera - http://www.riodesangre.com/

Thanks Shadow. Beguiling!

Speaking of Mr. Davis, here is a mostly overlooked score by him that I recommend checking out. A gorgeous theme (listen to the sample)


Don Davis
The Unsaid


Sample (http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/6/24/2487612//28 Personal Freedom.mp3)

http://www.multiupload.com/LTUSSIMDKP

Edit: the upload was missing a few files here are the ones I forgot
http://www.multiupload.com/9HZ2I7MGP4

EDIT: Narnia... You know, the first Narnia score was one of the most dispiriting cine-musical experiences I've ever had! Yes, the film was a petulant soulless turd, but the score was atrocious! Arnold is an improvement on HGW as far as I'm concerned, but I've never been a fan of his.

Erm, the movie wasn't that bad. In retrospect, it might have had a little too much "Lord of the Rings" in it, but it also got across a lot of the charm of the book, and I'll be damned if anyone else could've done the talking animals better. (And Santa Clause handing out weapons!) At the very least, you gotta admit it's better than "The Last Airbender" or "Eragon," which are more deserving of the "petulant soulless turd" label.

Rosenthal's 'George Washington', if Broughton's sequel is anything to go by, should be marvelous. Thanks for the notice.


Can someone post Broughton's George Washington 2? I haven't heard that one. Also, someone informed me that Rosenthal's George Washington came out BEFORE North and South so any similarities must come from Conti ripping off Rosenthal rather than the other way around! Now i'm even more exited!

At the very least, you gotta admit it's better than "The Last Airbender" or "Eragon," which are more deserving of the "petulant soulless turd" label.

Whoa whoa whoa! Let's not insult petulant soulless turds! More like succubus afterbirth.

The truth is, any competent composer should be able to do fairly dead-on "impressions" of other composers, which means speaking your words in their voices. It won't be as pure, and thus likely without the same impact, but when you truly understand the harmonic and orchestrational disciplines, it's not difficult to approximate others' work.

The words I note in that sentence are "should" and "competent". What hope do any of these hacks have speaking somebody else's words with their voices when they don't even know how to speak their words with their voices?

Doing an impression of another composer (particularly a good one) on a strictly technical basis is one thing... doing it well, maintaining your sense of individuality, and not allowing the impression to overtake the message of the music... is quite another. Studiously avoiding the label of ass-kisser, I find that you (Mike) do both very well.


This is what makes the Debney music so laughable. The instant he's not literally quoting off the page, he clearly has absolutely no idea what to do, because he does not understand it musically. It's akin to an impressionist who does Schwarzenegger, but can only do the exact lines of his from his movies. And he's not even a great impressionist. I've heard the entire new Predators score, and you can hear, like light switches turning off and on, the moments Debney needs to contend with a superior composer.

I wonder about Debney... He talks the talk and he seems to have incredible chops, but only when he's doing a redux of somebody else's work. The moment he ceases to follow a template or quote somebody else's music... you end up with generic crap. Lair was the most incredible patchwork temp-track. Cutthroat Island... is critically acclaimed but something about it makes me keep it at arm's length. What's your feeling on that score?


Just about everybody knows this shit about most guys working today; knows the emperors have no clothes. Sometimes ya just gotta say it; sometimes you lean into the strike zone. ESPECIALLY in this thread, where every other upload is fantastic, and representative of talent and ability orders of magnitude superior to what people are being scammed with today.

Indeed, somebody has to stick their neck out and say the truth - even if they're putting their head voluntarily in the gallows a lot of the time. I do get slightly frightened on your behalf though... I imagine you sitting down the pub with the Hollywood Studio Symphony or somebody, and John Debney walks in and says "You told the internet you thought my score for Predators sucked!" and then there's a big brawl, with people getting their heads shoved through timpani and such!

From my point of view, it's incredibly refreshing to see somebody in the industry who will say "Yeah, this is really just bollocks." rather than playing the professional diplomacy game - which is code for pretend *everything* is worthy of Mozart and quietly seethe to yourself when nobody is looking. But from your point of view... do you ever worry that some of your more acerbic comments may bite you on the arse later on in your career? ;)

@ShadowOnTheSun
What a marvelous score, Don Davis is a man of great talent but doesn't get enough opportunity

@Tango

About CT Island ... I really wanted to like it but I couldn't, there seems to be something that puts me off whenever I try to listen to it (too bland?).
"Morgan's Ride" (Main Title) however is the only piece I like (I don't even know why).
In my opinion Debney's best achievment in his career is his score for Lair.
I really love it for what it is, if this would be the standard of film scores today I wouldn't have so many complains about the industry.

Nowadays games offer a much greater opportunity for talented composers than movies (in germany most of the best orchestral scores were being recorded for pc games) and in the game business a composer has, in most cases, much more time to compose a score and also a huge amount of freedom compared to movies which gave incredible composers like Lennie Moore or Wataru Hokoyama the opportunity to give us Outcast and Afrika.

The truth is, any competent composer should be able to do fairly dead-on "impressions" of other composers, which means speaking your words in their voices. It won't be as pure, and thus likely without the same impact, but when you truly understand the harmonic and orchestrational disciplines, it's not difficult to approximate others' work.

This is what makes the Debney music so laughable. The instant he's not literally quoting off the page, he clearly has absolutely no idea what to do, because he does not understand it musically. e

I respect a lot of things you've said Mr. Verta, but it's beneath you to be on a message board smack talking another composer. Not saying you aren't absolutely correct, though... just the way you're presenting these ideas feels uncomfortable to me. It's something I would expect from any internet poster, but not from a professional composer. Just one man's opinion though, do what thou wilt.

I have to agree with herbaciak

I'm really sorry, that U have to agree with me, I really am xD.


Narnia... You know, the first Narnia score was one of the most dispiriting cine-musical experiences I've ever had! Yes, the film was a petulant soulless turd, but the score was atrocious! Arnold is an improvement on HGW as far as I'm concerned, but I've never been a fan of his.

Ekhm, actually I like first Narnia score. Maybe becasue it has some kind of naive magic? Or maybe because... I have no idea why? Movie is horrible though, without any substance - kids go into the closet, Jesus aka Simba appears/reappears, kids get out of the closet, end;).


I imagine you sitting down the pub with the Hollywood Studio Symphony or somebody, and John Debney walks in and says "You told the internet you thought my score for Predators sucked!" and then there's a big brawl, with people getting their heads shoved through timpani and such!

Hell yeah, bar brawl with composers!:D


I respect a lot of things you've said Mr. Verta, but it's beneath you to be on a message board smack talking another composer. Not saying you aren't absolutely correct, though... just the way you're presenting these ideas feels uncomfortable to me. It's something I would expect from any internet poster, but not from a professional composer. Just one man's opinion though, do what thou wilt.

Agree. Mr. Verta, with all the respect to you and your music (good composer you are;)), tell all those things in Debney's face. I would do it myself, but it's a bit hard for me. Oh, and put the video of this conversation on youtube xD.

I have to bring everyone's attention to TWO new Intrada releases. Yes I rarely update this thread with Intrada's releases but holy crap I LOVE the samples of these two babies (DAMN YOU INTRADA) [There goes $50 I wasn't planning on but I will love it when I get the discs] Anyway, this week we have two titles, one by Jerry Fielding (copying Prokofiev like he does in Serpico) and one Laurence Rosenthal (who you may remember from The Miracle Worker I posted recently)

First we have Black Bird that sounds like such a wonderful playful rousing score almost comedic in its presentation and brilliant use of 70s synthesizer as if it is its own instrument rather than something to drown the orchestra with. I'm told the same frantic section in the opening and ending titles is used in Serpico and they are taken from Prokofiev's Piano sonata number 3. Such energy and happy times from the samples drove me to order!



Don't know about the main and end title music being used in Serpico, but Mr. Fielding definitely borrowed it from his own prior work on Kolchak : The Night Stalker ( re: the episode 'The Devil's Platform' shortly after the elevator crash at the beginning of the story. The similarity is eerie. )

one can only hope does somebody have the soundtrack for the new movie "Inception"?!

In regards to my professional conduct regarding Debney (or lack thereof): You will rarely hear me bashing "fellow" composers, because it's bad form. However, when people do something I feel is devaluing the art, I think that is bad form, too. And I care enough about the art to "stick my neck out," on its behalf.

I remember once Jazz musician Pat Metheny had finally had enough of Kenny G and just laid into him in an interview; it was rare, but refreshing, and true. Funny thing is, rock musicians don't have this problem; they slam each other all day and night. Rap "musicians"... well, they literally go right for their guns. Perhaps we're supposed to be above all that, but I notice the music isn't exactly elevated for all these lofty ideals. Perhaps we could use a little truth among the ranks.

And truly, if you think I wouldn't say that to Debney's face you're sorely mistaken; but also know that it wouldn't be -and isn't - actually as dismissive as it sounds; it's a challenge. He can do better, and I encourage him to. I don't wish bad for anyone - I wish success through mastery. I have long wanted there to be a stronger composer-community, where we could inspire and challenge, and yes, get real with one another. This is yet another thing our forebears enjoyed -tough love. So given the chance, I'd ask him what the hell he was doing and encourage him to game up, with the assumption that he absolutely could if he chose to, and is being lazy. Is that "mean"? Not from my chair, but we live in a world now where judgment in any form is sort of verboten lest someone have to endure any sort of consequence for their actions/deeds/choices/failures.

This issue moved me to speak because of the virtual copy-and-paste of Silvestri's work in the score. To me, this is frighteningly close to rap artists "sampling" whole songs and then doing nursery rhymes on top of them. I think it's insulting. If you're going to do that, then you had better well do it masterfully or you're insulting the original composer, making yourself look like an amateur, and reducing beautiful musical moments to soulless modular assets that can be re-purposed. That gives me the creeps.


So in the end, my defense is that my offensive comes from a place of defense; sorry if it was offensive.

But don't worry about me; Debney's doing just fine.


_Mike

one can only hope does somebody have the soundtrack for the new movie "Inception"?!

This is the wrong thread to ask. "Inception" is a Zimmer score, and it's primarily electronic. The folks here don't take kindly to that kind of stuff. The CD isn't even out yet, anyway.

This is the wrong thread to ask. "Inception" is a Zimmer score, and it's primarily electronic. The folks here don't take kindly to that kind of stuff. The CD isn't even out yet, anyway.

oh, I thought this was another kind of thread, my bad...

and I hear the digital version was released to VCAST today, so someone can probably upload it on here... (Not in this thread, of coarse...)

Erm, the movie wasn't that bad. In retrospect, it might have had a little too much "Lord of the Rings" in it, but it also got across a lot of the charm of the book, and I'll be damned if anyone else could've done the talking animals better. (And Santa Clause handing out weapons!) At the very least, you gotta admit it's better than "The Last Airbender" or "Eragon," which are more deserving of the "petulant soulless turd" label.
I haven't seen either of those, but I'll take your word for it.

The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe felt to me like it was going through the motions at best; bad child actors that screamed drama-school (note: pouting and emoting are different things), a wooden witch (who didn't expect better of Swinton?), and the obligatory CG-ised giant army face-off with ridiculous swoopy camera. Why can't we do idiomatic any more?

The less said about the generic score the better.

Together with Magician's Nephew and Last Battle, Voyage of the Dawn Treader was always a favourite of mine. I'd like to see adaptations of those other two as well, even if they were a disaster it would be interesting and a little more forgiveable as there's no precedent. Unfortunately they seem to have been bracketed-off by conventional wisdom as either 'unappealing' or 'unfilmable'. There's so much scope for cinematic beauty in Dawn Treader that perhaps there's a glimmer of hope - especially now that Disney is out of the picture!

Mike: I fully expect that any artist worth a penny would be initially offended by your statements... and immediately thereafter realise the intent behind them. Music is bigger than any one human being; as musicians, we all strive to achieve that which is impossible - to see how near to perfect we can get. The satisfaction that comes knowing you did something good is infinitely longer-lasting than that dull feeling you get when somebody tells you it could've been better... and you know they're right.

As far as Debney is concerned, I'm convinced he has the means but not necessarily the motivation. If I were Debney, working under God-knows what sort of restrictions imposed upon me by modern film scoring trends, I probably wouldn't really try that hard either. And that's the irony, isn't it - because if you try, you're planting seeds for future improvements.

I'm sure Debney (or another composer) could've written a score that fit the modern template that had all the internal musicality that it should. But what we're getting (by the sounds of things) is bits of Silvestri's score interspersed with blandly generic orchestral posturing.

I can imagine that guys like Debney [who don't have the unique pleasure of doing the occasional sci-fi movie in Japan ;) ] must be really, really despirited. If you lock an innocent man away in prison, for some time every day he'll try to get out, he'll bang on the bars, he'll make a fuss, he'll protest his innocence. After a while, you lose the will to fight. You think, "f**k it - everything will be the same whether I try or not, so I might as well save my energy" and you wither away. Perhaps the day you give up is the day the guards unlock your cell and allow you to leave - but if you don't bother to try the cell door once in a while, you'll never know and you'll spend forever in there.

As far as I'm concerned, I think it's *GREAT* that you're here and articulating these things as clearly as you do. There are things in life that are sufficiently important that you throw away pretenses of professionalism (in short, cowardice) and you stand up and say "Hang on, this is no good."

Music is undoubtedly one of them. Without folk who feel strongly enough to do this, music as an artform dies and is replaced 100% by music as factory produce.

About CT Island ... I really wanted to like it but I couldn't, there seems to be something that puts me off whenever I try to listen to it (too bland?).
"Morgan's Ride" (Main Title) however is the only piece I like (I don't even know why).
In my opinion Debney's best achievment in his career is his score for Lair.

I would like to second this notion. I was very excited when Cutthroat was uploaded not too long ago as I had heard such great things about it and had never heard it before. But upon cueing it up, my excitement turned to apathy. Debney employs the London Symphony and at first it sounds mightily impressive, but eventually it dawned on me that the writing was very bland -- it is the very definition of the generic adventure score with the tiniest hint of a seafaring melody embedded into the brass fanfares; at best, it achieves the cliche "pirate movie" sound, a modicum of personality. Listening to "Morgan's Ride" again as I am typing this up, I'm hearing absolutely no surprises in the chord progression; the most obvious choice is always made, the easiest transition. In a world (thanks Don LaFontaine!) populated by samples and entire ensembles playing in unison, the Cutthroat score stands out for its use of a huge, world-renowned orchestra. But as we are all aware, this thread and forum is stuffed with such works, and by comparison the lack of personality and vision embodied by Debney's score stands out as thoroughly mediocre.

Compare Cutthroat to Korngold's Sea Hawk, especially as conducted by Charles Gerhardt. Although Korngold defined the "pirate movie" sound, listen to the dynamic variances in tone and color, the details in the lush orchestration. Listen to Debney's battle music and then listen to Korngold's duel. Debney sounds outright pathetic in comparison. I am not a fan of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" scores by any means, but let's look at the dance-like quality of Zimmer's action music for that series alongside Debney's wall-of-blah; Zimmer's inspiration may be obnoxiously puerile and recycled, but it is there in far greater volume than Debney imbues in his own effort. And I know there hasn't been a lot of love for Michael Giacchino in this thread, and I agree that his writing is a bit... shall we say, thin? But, honestly, I would take his Star Trek over Cutthroat any day of the week.

That said, I do enjoy Debney's Lair, as well as his theme to SeaQuest. Having not played the game I can only guess, but maybe the interactivity and ferociousness of the onscreen battles managed to galvanize a little personality out of Debney's pen. Perhaps it's harsh to judge him for not being inspired by a film from Renny Harlin.

Essentially, this has been a somewhat long-winded account of my belief that a score held up as the epitome to which modern film scoring should aspire is really anything but.

Instead, I suggest we all look forward to the day our own Mr. Verta is handed a summer tentpole and told to run with it. :)

Can someone post Broughton's George Washington 2? I haven't heard that one!

Bio's up. Mp3 link still working :)
Thread 65688

[A whole bunch of stuff with which I agree wholeheartedly...]

Instead, I suggest we all look forward to the day our own Mr. Verta is handed a summer tentpole and told to run with it. :)

*would like an invitation to the scoring session* :D :D :D

[Edit: What a bunch of miserable assholes we've become... Complaining about Cutthroat Island of all things. Of course, it's justified, which is sad in itself... For what it's worth, it's rip-roaring good fun if nothing else.]

Well I'm certainly not a hypocrite in regards to being equally subject to criticism; the reason I keep that Zimmer quote nearby is because other motivations aside, it has an undeniable kernel of painful truth in it - I don't work as much as he does. I don't keep that sting close to punish myself, but to be reminded that there's more mountain to climb, and that I must keep at it.

You only grow a muscle by subjecting it to stress, and growth is painful. It's just also worth it.

That being said, I told a young composer looking for advice the other day that of all the "wisdom" I've stumbled across and discarded over the years, one thing remains true: you must make a personal choice to either be a great composer, or a financially successful one. They're not necessarily exclusive; John Williams is great and commercially successful. But no shortage of successes are poor musicians. If working is your goal; if money is your goal, you do NOT have to be great. Talent is why they'll remember you or not; why they'll be playing your music in 50+ years or not. To do that, you have to be great, and to be great, you must study relentlessly. If my true goal was simply to work all the time and make money, I'd be spending my days very differently. 8+hours a day studying and writing is not necessary for this, and takes time away from all the other schmoozing and social obligations one should be focusing on if that's the goal. But there are only so many hours in a day, and so many days in a lifetime. So my allegiance has always been to the work, and to the art, and I let the money part take care of itself (or not). I was broke enough once to have to be a musician whore just to have money for food once a day, and it didn't make me a better musician, nor improve my love of music. Today I choose differently, that's all. You gotta think long game; Picasso only sold one painting in his lifetime.

Maybe that's aiming high, but I really don't want you all complaining, 10 years from now, that I'm not hungry anymore and that it's a shame my music has become "stale" or "generic" or any of the other pejoratives I've seen heaped on once-great composers who seem to have forgotten how to keep it alive and fresh. The business will do that to you. Which is why I choose to make the business second, and the work first. That said, I hustle like everyone else; but if I never get that elusive "A" feature, or whatever else our Lottery-like mentality thinks matters, I still want to make sure whatever I do write is as good as I can possibly make it, and worthy of the art.


_Mike

At some stage I remember Arthierr asking for recommendations of organ+orchestra. Here's one of my favs:


BARBER - TOCCATA FESTIVA
Christoph Eschenbach conducting The Philadelphia Orchestra
Organist - Olivier Latry



http://www.multiupload.com/0YAG8G3GND

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Edit - Mike, great inspiring post, as ever!

[I think you meant to say Van Gogh.. Picasso sold an absolute sh*tload! ;)]