THE BIG ORCHESTRAL ACTION MUSIC THREAD! [Archive] - Page 35

arthierr

10-06-2011, 12:03 AM

The observation about the use of dissonance in film scores is interesting, but is incomplete. As I have stated elsewhere, it is dangerous to evaluate film scores outside of their natural habitat, that is, in the context of a film viewing experience. (In fact, due to the specialized creative pipeline of film score production - and that's what it is, production, with artificially tight constraints on both time and content, it is difficult to compare with any other form of music.) Basically, it is difficult to evaluate because they are working with one hand behind their back. Or more typically, with both hands tied behind their back, a baton between their teeth, all while suspended above a vat of acid.

More specifically as it relates to dissonance, music cannot be considered in isolation. It must be considered in terms of sfx, ambient sound, dialogue, image, and overall content. I'm a big believer that the line between music and diagetic sound is largely an artificial one. I have used music as sfx, and sfx as music. This context, where the location can switch from a small town barbershop to a mountaintop cave in a distant galaxy in the space of a single edit can prepare the mind to accept sound combinations that would be less acceptable in a concert setting. (Keeping in mind that the average modern concert audience is more musically sophisticated than the average movie audience.)

This is not an attempt to take a stand one way or another on the use of dissonance in general, only the limitations of using film scores as an example. This is also not related to the relative quality of film scores in isolation compared with seeing them in situ. I love listening to film scores. It is only to indicate, that when discussing theoretical models, the limits of comparing film scores to other modes of composition.

To be frank, when I first quickly read this post 1 or 2 days ago, I believed that I partially disagreed with it. But now that I see it much more carefully, I'm not so sure, since in fact I don't fully understand it! The middle paragraph is a little nebulous to me, and I don't precisely see what it is about. A little clarification would be welcome, so I'd really like you to develop your argumentation so I could form an opinion about this.

In total: The artistry of the composer far overrides any single element of technique they may employ, but it can be useful to discuss that technique (such as use of dissonance) at times.

Artistry / talent / inspiration / gift Versus craftsmanship / technique / competence / knowledge. This is an excellent topic for a discussion. Which is more important? Which leads to better music? Can one without the other produce great music?

I'm aware of the fact that this thread sometimes seems to grant too much importance to the technical aspects of music or film scores. But there's a reason, and a good one: because the craft tends to progressively disappear in film music! It's been said many times here: new composers seem to lack the knowledge and competence their predecessors used to have. They appear to be under-educated and lacking some real classical culture and music theory elements, and their music often sounds too amateurish and crude. So I believe it's a good thing to insist once in a while on this point. Perhaps this will incite the composers reading this thread to grant more importance to their technical skills and improve them, so they can compose even better music.

Remote Control Productions is the big pusher of dissonant scores and that's what American filmmakers want right now. Dissonance adds "grit". It adds "suspense". It adds "modernity". Whatever. Dissonant, highly electronic, distorted scores are what people want. Even gifted people like Christopher Nolan want the distorted, chaotic score with simple motifs instead of full-blown themes.

I don't think that Remote Control Productions is necessarily a bad sound when it's stripped (or at least trimmed) of the overwhelming dissonance. For example, Norihiko Hibino's main theme for the anime Blassreiter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZZD5lUoeMo) does a really great job of combining a melody with light dissonance. The synth-y dissonance backs up the sax melody, adding a sense of tragedy/loneliness but also adds supernatural and eerie elements, which perfectly suits the sci-fi/horror genre the material is in. That's how you do Remote Control right, not the way Remote Control is in stuff like "Dark Knight".

The biggest problem with RCP isn't that they use too much dissonance in their scores (all composers use it more or less), it's that they use is badly. Good neo-Romantic scores use dissonance in a fantastic way, with intelligence and grace, with subtlety and appropriateness, so it's almost never disturbing or intrusive (unless it's precisely the intention); it flows naturally in the composition; it sounds right and relevant in the context, and it ultimately leads to richer and better music. RCP scores, on the other hand, tend to generally use dissonance in a straightforward and crude way. It seems there's very little research or subtlety in the way they use it. It's like they just choose some random dissonant chords, play them with a noisy mix of orchestra and electronics, and there you go, here's your big scary sound.

JonC

10-06-2011, 04:32 AM

I shall try to clarify.

There are two basic points I'm trying to cover. They are very different, but similar in their implications. First, is an appreciation that compared to any other form of music, film composers have very little control over their content. They are told where to put the music, what style it should be in, how long each cue will run and where the major beats should be. There are exceptions, clearly, but generally, they are working within a tiny box. Kevin Manthei compared the process to being a court composer. You make what the King commands. (They also have an impossibly short span to work.) In terms of the subject at hand, it is not always clear which choices you hear are the composer, and which is his patron.

Second, is the limitations of listening to a score in isolation. Listening to a score separate from the rest of the viewing experience; that is, without dialogue, sfx, ambient sound, and of course, the image, (concert setting) is not the way a film score is meant to be heard. There are practical considerations. Dialogue scenes require a lower volume than non dialogue ones. This requires different arrangements because certain instruments get lost at lower levels. More importantly, as a sonic experience, listening to a film score divorced from the other sounds around it means you are only hearing half the sound you are suppose to. It's like listening to a symphony in which the entire string section has walked out. Even if you were in the mixing booth as the recording sessions were being performed, you would be further away from the intent of the composer then if you attended a matinee screening at the local multiplex.

Film scores are meant to be heard in harmony with all the other elements. Moreover, (except for musicals,) they are one of the last, if not the last, element added to the composition. While it is natural to evaluate film scores in a concert setting, it is impractical to compare the choices used for a symphony with the incomplete sound of a film score in isolation.

This is the limitation of discussing dissonance in film scores as it relates to music theory or in comparisons with other forms of music. You are not hearing a concert. Ultimately, you are not hearing music. You are immersed into a combined audio visual experience in which what is defined as music has been melted, poured, and molded into something completely different. The rules for dissonance in music are not comparable because the rules of music do not apply.

I'm aware of the fact that this thread sometimes seems to grant too much importance to the technical aspects of music or film scores. But there's a reason, and a good one: because the craft tends to progressively disappear in film music! It's been said many times here: new composers seem to lack the knowledge and competence their predecessors used to have. They appear to be under-educated and lacking some real classical culture and music theory elements, and their music often sounds too amateurish and crude. So I believe it's a good thing to insist once in a while on this point. Perhaps this will incite the composers reading this thread to grant more importance to their technical skills and improve them, so they can compose even better music.

This is a separate subject which I can go on in depth later, but here is the short version. Film scores are getting simpler because they no longer need to be as complex. The decline in craft in film scores (and I agree they are declining,) must be understood in context. That is, why is there music in film. Music exists for two reasons, as a mood accent, and less known, as an audio 'glue,' that links the disparate visual elements of a scene. In both cases, they work a dance between the image and the sound. As other elements become more sophisticated; better cinematography, more nuanced camera movement, tighter (not necessarily faster) editing as well as richer sound beds, the music track needs to carry less of the load. Under certain cinematic circumstances, a richer score could actually be distracting. Add to that the insane compositional deadlines, and it is inevitable that scores would get simpler.

This may be a disappointment to those of us who love listening to scores at home, but they weren't written for us, and they shouldn't be.

Respectfully,
JonC

jakob

10-06-2011, 05:15 AM

Artistry / talent / inspiration / gift Versus craftsmanship / technique / competence / knowledge. This is an excellent topic for a discussion. Which is more important? Which leads to better music? Can one without the other produce great music?

I'm aware of the fact that this thread sometimes seems to grant too much importance to the technical aspects of music or film scores. But there's a reason, and a good one: because the craft tends to progressively disappear in film music! It's been said many times here: new composers seem to lack the knowledge and competence their predecessors used to have. They appear to be under-educated and lacking some real classical culture and music theory elements, and their music often sounds too amateurish and crude. So I believe it's a good thing to insist once in a while on this point. Perhaps this will incite the composers reading this thread to grant more importance to their technical skills and improve them, so they can compose even better music.

I wasn't really attempting to bring this up. I was merely saying that a composer's use of dissonance shouldn't always be looked at in a vacuum, but as a function of the full force of the music.

Faleel

10-07-2011, 02:40 AM

I think I'll just leave this here.....Fully Skyward Sword into (Japanese) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2s29Eo0K4w&feature=player_embedded#)!

jakob

10-07-2011, 05:06 AM

I think I'll just leave this here.....Fully Skyward Sword into (Japanese) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2s29Eo0K4w&feature=player_embedded#)!

Wow, this game is more appealing with every bit I see about it. That also really sounds like the opening of Respighi's Roman Festival in the beginning there, or at least it seems so to me. ( Respighi - Roman Festivals - 1. Circus Games - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9xK11ed35U) )

arthierr

10-07-2011, 08:02 PM

I wasn't really attempting to bring this up.
I know, dude! I just used your last sentence in that post as a transition to tackle something I found relevant to talk about: the obvious insistence on technical aspects in this thread.

I shall try to clarify.

Splendid! Now I can make some (hopefully) interesting comments on your views on film music. Coming up very soon.

evilwurst

10-07-2011, 09:10 PM

[excerpted for brevity] Second, is the limitations of listening to a score in isolation. Listening to a score separate from the rest of the viewing experience; that is, without dialogue, sfx, ambient sound, and of course, the image, (concert setting) is not the way a film score is meant to be heard. [cut again]Film scores are getting simpler because they no longer need to be as complex.[cut again]
This may be a disappointment to those of us who love listening to scores at home, but they weren't written for us, and they shouldn't be.
I'm normally pretty quiet in this thread, but this one kind of rubbed me the wrong way. (In a "no, that's not quite right" way, not personally; no offense taken or intended here). You seem to be confusing two unrelated issues. One - that a proper film score must fit the film - I agree with, and probably every film fan and film music fan agrees with. But the other is the implication that the quality of the music doesn't matter at all, as long as it fits. That part will meet nearly universal disagreement. Good or great music that fits is clearly superior to poor or mediocre music that fits, and the quality of the music definitely impacts the overall quality of the film. Maybe you didn't mean to come across that way, or maybe I read too much into it. But it's really, really weird to point out that a movie is the total of so many artistic components, but then to let the producer off the hook for slacking off on one the biggest ones.

I would further say that the mere memory of having seen a movie before, and sometimes even just the knowledge of the context the music was intended to go with, is enough to fully enjoy a good film score on its own. It's not like we've forgotten that the Imperial March is associated with Darth Vader, for example. We've built the association between the two, and seeing/hearing either one recalls the other. It's something that separates the truly great movies from the rest, and a movie can't benefit from this effect if its music was forgettable. Heck, people still listen to operas without even knowing the languages they're sung in, only the general idea of what's going on in the scene. People listen to modern pop in languages or dialects they don't understand.

Lastly, using "not for us" is very unusual in this context. Usually that's an argument used for something highly refined or highly abstract - the painting that's "not for us" because we only see smears of color, the fine wine that's "not for us" because we're using to the cheap stuff, and so on. Not for a big budget movie that was intended from the start to be a blockbuster, by appealing to as many people as possible, so as to better separate us from our money. I don't think the movie studio guys are saying "look, let's ignore the music fans, we don't want the extra ten bucks from each of them". I think what people are saying - and backing with quotes from the actual (poor) decision-makers - is that the studios simply have no taste in music. It's not even a matter of lacking training at this point; I'd swear that the movie execs have actually de-trained themselves towards some wrong Vision of What People Want To Hear. (And perhaps additionally, they see that not every CD sells as well as Star Wars, and somehow interpret this as "oh, people don't buy soundtracks anymore" instead of asking "why?"). I suspect this because, honestly, a child could do better, and a child has zero training at all. Maybe that's an overly bold statement from me, but which themes do you think a child is going to be humming after a movie? Something from a John Williams score (in recent years, the Harry Potter theme, for example), or something from a score that doesn't even have themes?

(Hmm. And I think that mental image may grab the readers here, because we basically were that child at some point.)

thegrizz70x7

10-07-2011, 10:02 PM

Great discussion about composition, especially with regards to atonality and the like. I've recently been listening to some new Elliot Goldenthal works, currently listening to his "Othello" ballet, saw "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" the other day too (for the first time). Certainly a hard composer to swallow a lot of the time. Ironically, he says he doesn't think of his music in terms of tonal or atonal, but rather in terms of sonorities.
Anyways, I certainly have my biases, i certainly tend to like more "classical" scores, with obvious themes and clear thematic development. Generally I'm used to hearing more atonal work used for horror, which certainly works. But the idea of atonality being used for whole film, and not merely to produce a horror sound is certainly fascinating. I believe it can be done, and if done with purpose, can serve the film greatly, create a unique mood and tone, and whether that makes it more difficult to hear as a stand-alone soundtrack experience... well probably doesn't matter as much.
Certain other composers come to my mind as particularly working with this style of music, particularly Leonard Rosenman, and some of Jerry Goldsmith's early scores (like POTA), Alex North also seemed a very unusual composer in that he often scored big "classical" scores, but in a very un-classical way.
Now, granted, I am no music student, and I realize I might be making a fool of myself, and not really using "atonal" properly, especially in reference to specific composers and their style, so I apologize, still have a lot to learn. But then again, sometimes with music, you don't necessarily need book knowledge to Know everything that's being done, it's more about Feeling it. Anyways, my random two bits of the day.

-----

Also, I know this isn't really a Requests zone, but didn't know where else to ask... Speaking of Othello, I'm wanting to find Charlie Mole's score for the 1995 "Othello"?

JonC

10-08-2011, 03:58 AM

I'm normally pretty quiet in this thread, but this one kind of rubbed me the wrong way. (In a "no, that's not quite right" way, not personally; no offense taken or intended here). You seem to be confusing two unrelated issues. One - that a proper film score must fit the film - I agree with, and probably every film fan and film music fan agrees with. But the other is the implication that the quality of the music doesn't matter at all, as long as it fits. That part will meet nearly universal disagreement. Good or great music that fits is clearly superior to poor or mediocre music that fits, and the quality of the music definitely impacts the overall quality of the film. Maybe you didn't mean to come across that way, or maybe I read too much into it. But it's really, really weird to point out that a movie is the total of so many artistic components, but then to let the producer off the hook for slacking off on one the biggest ones.
Let me something that is harsh followed by something conciliatory. There is no such thing as good film music or bad film music. There is only appropriate or inappropriate.
However, it is almost always inappropriate that the music is so bad as to be distracting. If the audience becomes consciously aware of how bad the score is, they will be taken out of the experience.
My main point in that section is that there is a complex relationship between sound and image, and as image increases in sophistication, music decreases in need for sophistication. This is not to say it must be less sophisticated, only that it is no longer as necessary. And I am describing complexity in music, not quality. This is a long, complicated subject to explain, and it'll take a while for me to explain adequately.

I would further say that the mere memory of having seen a movie before, and sometimes even just the knowledge of the context the music was intended to go with, is enough to fully enjoy a good film score on its own. It's not like we've forgotten that the Imperial March is associated with Darth Vader, for example. We've built the association between the two, and seeing/hearing either one recalls the other. It's something that separates the truly great movies from the rest, and a movie can't benefit from this effect if its music was forgettable.
This has nothing to do with why or how the music is created. It is only relates as to why you (and me, I love that track,) enjoy it out of context.

Heck, people still listen to operas without even knowing the languages they're sung in, only the general idea of what's going on in the scene. People listen to modern pop in languages or dialects they don't understand.

In these cases, the qualities of the vocals are separate from the content of the lyrics. But the music is still the primary focus of the composition. While it is true that an opera is typically a collaboration between a lyricist and a composer, there is no doubt which side is the dominant one.

Lastly, using "not for us" is very unusual in this context. Usually that's an argument used for something highly refined or highly abstract - the painting that's "not for us" because we only see smears of color, the fine wine that's "not for us" because we're using to the cheap stuff, and so on.

'Not for us' refers to film score fans, of which I include myself. Listening to film scores is like going to the Louvre to look at the picture frames. We may have a great time, there may be some great stuff to see, but on a very basic level, we're missing the point. (We don't care. We've found our own, unrelated point.)

Not for a big budget movie that was intended from the start to be a blockbuster, by appealing to as many people as possible, so as to better separate us from our money. I don't think the movie studio guys are saying "look, let's ignore the music fans, we don't want the extra ten bucks from each of them". I think what people are saying - and backing with quotes from the actual (poor) decision-makers - is that the studios simply have no taste in music. It's not even a matter of lacking training at this point; I'd swear that the movie execs have actually de-trained themselves towards some wrong Vision of What People Want To Hear. (And perhaps additionally, they see that not every CD sells as well as Star Wars, and somehow interpret this as "oh, people don't buy soundtracks anymore" instead of asking "why?"). I suspect this because, honestly, a child could do better, and a child has zero training at all. Maybe that's an overly bold statement from me, but which themes do you think a child is going to be humming after a movie? Something from a John Williams score (in recent years, the Harry Potter theme, for example), or something from a score that doesn't even have themes?

Film scores sales are not now nor have they ever been any factor in the motion picture process.
The market for film scores is and always has been a very, very tiny fraction of album sales. There are exceptions (Star Wars, Titanic,) but their scores were not created with album sales in mind. Companies like Varese, Intrada, La-La Land, and the like exist in large part because it often (and increasingly,) not worth the effort for the music labels connected with the studios. It is a specialty market, like comedy records.
Soundtrack albums (songs,) are another matter. They consistently sell better than scores. In this case studios will dictate decisions with an eye on album sales. (The choice of songs in The Matrix movies? As much about pushing acts signed to Warner music as any creative function. Why this works is connected to my earlier post about the function of film music in context. More on this later, I promise.)

I agree that my stance is aggressive and unconventional, certainly for a film score forum. This has been the result of much thought and work, both in theory and practice, over a period of many years. I understand and respect that there will be some push back. It is not my intention to imply that one should not enjoy scores. I am only attempting to explain the reality of the practicalities of scores, so that one better understands why what one hears sounds the way it does.
JonC

evilwurst

10-08-2011, 07:52 AM

There is no such thing as good film music or bad film music. There is only appropriate or inappropriate.
What I'm objecting to is... how can I word this correctly. Maybe I should be more blunt: Are you saying that it's an entirely yes/no binary state, where music is either appropriate or inappropriate, and that there is no room for two films with appropriate music to differentiate from each other based on the quality of their music? I ask because you've fallen back on the earlier argument a few times and it's weirding me out a bit. I'm mean, it's a frequent topic of discussion here that there's a lot of really great music out there and a lot of not-as-great music out there, and there are examples of both types being used to varying levels of effectiveness in visual media. So I'm not quite following the logic. To dip into a math analogy here, I'm seeing two axes, where we could say "let x be how appropriate the music was" and "let y be how good the music was", and we could actually plot films in all four quadrants. There will be some films that are positive in both x and y - appropriate music and good music - but some will clearly be a lot further in y than others. There will be some that were both inappropriate and also objectively and quantifiably bad. There will be some where the music was inappropriate but good; it just wasn't a good choice for that scene. There will even be some where the music was appropriate but bad - used for comedic effect, for example. Or, to extend this beyond the music: I agree that all aspects of a film should flow together well, but I of course also prefer that the individual pieces be high quality too. We could focus on just the appropriateness aspect, for the sake of a particular discussion, but we'd be losing something if we limited ourselves to only that aspect all the time. (My apologies if I've accidentally goaded you directly into that focus by jumping to challenge it).

This has nothing to do with why or how the music is created. It is only relates as to why you (and me, I love that track,) enjoy it out of context.
I was addressing your concern that it's not fair to listen to (and judge) music out of context, by pointing out that through our original in-full-context viewing of the film, we internalize the content. We can make fair judgements of the music on later re-listens. Actually, we probably make much more forgiving judgements, in that we might well think "it's a shame that the acting in scene was so poorly done, because the music was actually pretty good". I won't name the appropriate matching Star Wars scene by name, but I'll hint that it involves sand...
As for why and how the music was created, that seems like an obvious thing to me. Music being a powerful emotional lever, part of the toolkit in the art and craft of filmmaking, and so on. The scene-to-music and music-to-scene attachment is part of the side effect; it's worth mentioning because it's a big sign that the music was both good and well used. Some may take the artistic leap of using an intentionally sparse and low-impact soundtrack, to specifically avoid that attachment so that we focus on whatever else the filmmaker wants us to focus on... but I don't think that's the kind of soundtrack that gets discussed much here. I'll try to describe some of the disliked stuff in context of this sub-discussion: I'd say it's when the music is only being used to get our heart rate up or down on command but fails to move us in any way. That's an entirely different choice than to minimize impact; it's definitely being used for impact, but it's losing so much potential in the process, perversely resulting in less impact.

Re: the opera example, I got ahead of myself a bit. I intended to use it as an example of the music being separated from its original context - the full performance of the opera, with the actors on stage in costume and everything, physically doing their thing. The language issue was just another layer of separation between the modern observer and the original full work. I'm not actually much of an opera fan aside from the overtures, so I don't have many good examples to use here. But surely it helps to know what's supposed to be going on as you listen. I guess I'm basically agreeing with you that context is important, while additionally claiming that context is portable.

Listening to film scores is like going to the Louvre to look at the picture frames. We may have a great time, there may be some great stuff to see, but on a very basic level, we're missing the point.
Your earlier post talks about film as a combination of many different elements, so it's unexpected to be dismissive of one of those elements later on. (Not a very good analogy, either; the frames of the pictures aren't actually supposed to have to do with the subject of the picture. Crossing it to movie analogy, the frame is just furniture, like knowing the brand of sunglasses the main characters are wearing. To lean on Vader again, though, the music is intentionally part of it. Here's Darth Vader, all in black, having his awesome voice and being menacing, and here's his menacing theme music in the background. It just wouldn't be the same without the music. )

Film scores sales are not now nor have they ever been any factor in the motion picture process.
I admit I used a jokey exaggerated example there. The tangent is my fault. I maintain that it's got an element of truth to it, though. The big studios aren't doing it purely for the art, they're doing it for money; hence the soundtrack CD, the movie novelization, the t-shirt, the video game license, the action figures, and all the other marketing stuff. It doesn't matter to them that soundtracks aren't a big player in the overall CD market, because they're only in the soundtrack market and it's making them money. All that merch is sold for a tidy profit right when the movie is popular, then dropped, because it's not really the movie studio's primary business and they're not really geared towards keeping the merch in production long term. (That's where licensing it out to Varese et al come in, because selling CDs is their business and there's all this good stuff that they can re-release to sell us). So anything that is either marketable or directly translates to more butts in theater seats is something they're definitely making decisions on. It affects who they cast for the roles, where they film it, who they hire to write the music... and they're still paying a fair amount for that music even if it's not as much as it used to be.

I agree that my stance is aggressive and unconventional, certainly for a film score forum. This has been the result of much thought and work, both in theory and practice, over a period of many years.
That's not a bad thing. The logic in between the aggressive and unconventional statements isn't quite supporting them yet, though. (Note that I've occasionally referenced parts of your earlier posts when making my rebuttals). A message board thought-ordering issue, maybe. I know when I've been thinking about something indirectly for a while, I'm usually not ready to explain it elegantly all at once. It certainly took me a bunch of revision before I was satisfied enough to post this.

arthierr

10-08-2011, 10:29 AM

Note: this post has been written before the two previous posts (that I haven't checked for the moment) have been sent, so 1) it doesn't take into account the new elements these posts may have brought, 2) if some corrections / additions are needed, I'll post them in a new separate post later.

The observation about the use of dissonance in film scores is interesting, but is incomplete. As I have stated elsewhere, it is dangerous to evaluate film scores outside of their natural habitat, that is, in the context of a film viewing experience. (In fact, due to the specialized creative pipeline of film score production - and that's what it is, production, with artificially tight constraints on both time and content, it is difficult to compare with any other form of music.) Basically, it is difficult to evaluate because they are working with one hand behind their back. Or more typically, with both hands tied behind their back, a baton between their teeth, all while suspended above a vat of acid.

More specifically as it relates to dissonance, music cannot be considered in isolation. It must be considered in terms of sfx, ambient sound, dialogue, image, and overall content. I'm a big believer that the line between music and diagetic sound is largely an artificial one. I have used music as sfx, and sfx as music. This context, where the location can switch from a small town barbershop to a mountaintop cave in a distant galaxy in the space of a single edit can prepare the mind to accept sound combinations that would be less acceptable in a concert setting. (Keeping in mind that the average modern concert audience is more musically sophisticated than the average movie audience.)

This is not an attempt to take a stand one way or another on the use of dissonance in general, only the limitations of using film scores as an example. This is also not related to the relative quality of film scores in isolation compared with seeing them in situ. I love listening to film scores. It is only to indicate, that when discussing theoretical models, the limits of comparing film scores to other modes of composition.

Second, is the limitations of listening to a score in isolation. Listening to a score separate from the rest of the viewing experience; that is, without dialogue, sfx, ambient sound, and of course, the image, (concert setting) is not the way a film score is meant to be heard. There are practical considerations. Dialogue scenes require a lower volume than non dialogue ones. This requires different arrangements because certain instruments get lost at lower levels. More importantly, as a sonic experience, listening to a film score divorced from the other sounds around it means you are only hearing half the sound you are suppose to. It's like listening to a symphony in which the entire string section has walked out. Even if you were in the mixing booth as the recording sessions were being performed, you would be further away from the intent of the composer then if you attended a matinee screening at the local multiplex.

Film scores are meant to be heard in harmony with all the other elements. Moreover, (except for musicals,) they are one of the last, if not the last, element added to the composition. While it is natural to evaluate film scores in a concert setting, it is impractical to compare the choices used for a symphony with the incomplete sound of a film score in isolation.

This is the limitation of discussing dissonance in film scores as it relates to music theory or in comparisons with other forms of music. You are not hearing a concert. Ultimately, you are not hearing music. You are immersed into a combined audio visual experience in which what is defined as music has been melted, poured, and molded into something completely different. The rules for dissonance in music are not comparable because the rules of music do not apply.

First off, thank you for having clarified your initial post. Now it's much better indeed, and it allows me to confirm what I previously stated: I've got some quite different views on film music! To be honest, I must admit that I also had a few *gasps* when I read some of the statements featured in both your posts. Of course, at a basic level, you are mostly right and you bring up valid points, but in the detail, some of the views you expressed are a little too extreme and / or incomplete to be quite pertinent. But no offense, you're entitled to your opinions, and I really appreciate the fact that you posted them here (I wish more people do that), since it allows us to have a good discussion on the subject, for the pleasure of all members and visitors of this thread.

Now, in order to try to explain my divergences, I'll use two analogies (I love analogies).

Analogy 1: (beware, this one is rather abstract) Have you already re-used a container (such as a box, a bottle, etc.) originally designed to contain another product? Yes, probably. And why have you been able to do that? Because the container's nature is to contain, it's its purpose in "life", its fundamental function. Hence a container can contain anything that fits into it, and, it can be intrinsincally judged for its "ability to contain", not only its initial product, but also anything else.

It's the same with film music. Its original role is of course to accompany the movie and exert various effect on the audience (emotional, informational, etc.), we all know this. But film music is nonetheless also music, and the nature of music, wherever it comes from, whatever source it has been made for, is to bring aesthetic emotions to its listeners. Hence, a piece of film music can be intrinsincally judged for its ability to arouse aesthetic emotions (in other words, for its artistic value), and not simply for its efficiency to enhance its initial product, namely the movie.

Analogy 2: stating that film music isn't meant to be heard outside of the context of a movie is like saying that an ingredient of a dish isn't meant to be eaten separately from this dish. Let's take some spaghettis with meat balls as an example: can you seriously tell me that it has no legitimacy or makes no sense to eat some spaghettis alone, or some meat balls alone, or some tomato sauce alone, or some grated cheese alone? (Boy, now I'm hungry) Of course you can fully enjoy each of these ingredients alone, and what's more, if you happen to be a great appreciator of only one of them, say the meat balls, you will even have MORE pleasure with JUST the meat balls, than with them as a part of the full dish.

Its exactly the same with film music: most film score fans are true melomans who love music for itself, especially when we speak about grand, sweeping, lush orchestral music, which is a superlative form of music derivating from (mostly) the Romantic period, that is, from Art music. Real film score fans don't care if the music they listen to has been created for a movie, a cartoon, a documentary, an anime, a VG, a commercial, etc. They only care about the fact that the music is good enough to be enjoyable in itself (and I can tell you that most grand symphonic scores produced in Hollywood in the past, for instance, are categorically so). Often, score fans don't even have SEEN the shows their beloved scores have been composed for (I must have seen less than 3% of the animes of which I enjoy the scores), and when they have, they don't necessarily LIKE these movies (I'm a very little appreciator of the Star Wars movies, but a HUGE fan of John Williams' prodigious music for them).

In fact, competently composed and artistically accomplished film music is a perfectly valid experience to be appreciated per se, as a standalone product, which is why there's a substantial market for film score albums. I recently posted a piece of interview of composer Frederic Talgorn, who stated this: "I like well written pieces that have a meaning in themselves as well. Because it's possible, I believe so. I strive to do that: I think you can write music that fits perfectly the image and "hold" as of itself." The guy knows what he's talking about. He's from that old school, where composers had thorough musical training and erudite classical culture, which gave them the ability to compose some really great music, that is, music that not only accurately and effectively matches the movie, but ALSO that has so much power, beauty, intelligence and meaning in itself that it far transcends the film, in order to become an individual, independent piece of art, such as a symphonic suite or an opera. James Horner for example is notorious for his tendency to skilfully compose scores featuring some long tone poem-like cues, which are self-contained musical entities that have enough structure, cohesion and meaning to them to be fully enjoyable alone (see Willow, among others).

More specifically as it relates to dissonance, music cannot be considered in isolation.

Dissonance wasn't discussed in regard to film scores only, but as a general musical component. It even started with a divergence about Hirano, who mostly composes anime scores, which are rather different from film scores since they mostly functions like library music: the composer writes a bunch of cues unrelated to specific scenes, but rather related to global elements, such as moods, characters, etc. Hence, when Hirano uses dissonance, it's not necessarily meant to express a particular nuance of a particular scene, since the same cue is used for various scenes.

I'm a big believer that the line between music and diagetic sound is largely an artificial one.
If I understand you correctly, then I have to say that the line between music and diagetic sound is in NO WAY artificial, and it even is absolutely fundamental! If it wasn't, we would witness scenes like this:

Death Star psychiatrist: So, Mr. Vader, have you heard again this weird music that seems to follow you?

Darth Vader: F**k yeah! I'm sick of it! The other day I was walking into a room, and there it started again: TA-TA-TA-TA-TATA-TA-TATA... The same f**king tune! I can't even sit on the toilet without hearing a few bars of it! Please help me to get rid of this, so I can have a normal life again and peacefully do my usual chores, you know, like killing people with my super-awesome Jedi powers and such...

Moreover I'm a little surprised that you place ambient sounds, atmospheric music and source music on the same level of, say grand symphonic music. Don't you perceive a clear difference of nature and quality between those?

as a sonic experience, listening to a film score divorced from the other sounds around it means you are only hearing half the sound you are suppose to. It's like listening to a symphony in which the entire string section has walked out.
You apparently seem to grant way too much importance to non musical aspects of film, and too little consideration to music. Are the sfx and BG noises so essential for you that you have consider them as half of the experience? In Krull, there's a scene where the group of heroes rides some flying horses. In this situation, you can hear a) the rumble of the ride, and b) the SUBLIME music of James Horner. Which one is the most important to you as a movie watcher? Which one brings you more emotion and pleasure? The necessary and trite BG noise, or the grandiose, inspired, complex music meticulously written by a talented composer and skilfully performed by a world class orchestra?

This is the limitation of discussing dissonance in film scores as it relates to music theory or in comparisons with other forms of music. You are not hearing a concert. Ultimately, you are not hearing music. You are immersed into a combined audio visual experience in which what is defined as music has been melted, poured, and molded into something completely different. The rules for dissonance in music are not comparable because the rules of music do not apply.
Wow. This is a big one.

As long as there *is* some music somewhere, anywhere, even in the most limited form, the rules of music (and consequently the rules for dissonance) inevitably DO apply! And not only this, but music can and must be judged in regard to its own artistic quality, on top of its contextual efficiency. Good film music is both: good music from an artistic point of view, and good accompaniment from a film point of view.

And frankly, can you really tell someone without flinching, without blinking, that when you're watching, say Conan, Raiders, or Star Trek TMP, you are not hearing music? Seriously?

Film scores are getting simpler because they no longer need to be as complex. The decline in craft in film scores (and I agree they are declining,) must be understood in context. That is, why is there music in film. Music exists for two reasons, as a mood accent, and less known, as an audio 'glue,' that links the disparate visual elements of a scene. In both cases, they work a dance between the image and the sound. As other elements become more sophisticated; better cinematography, more nuanced camera movement, tighter (not necessarily faster) editing as well as richer sound beds, the music track needs to carry less of the load. Under certain cinematic circumstances, a richer score could actually be distracting. Add to that the insane compositional deadlines, and it is inevitable that scores would get simpler.

To state that there's better cinematography nowadays is already an arguable position, but to state that because of that, music hasn't necessarily to be good, complex and well written is downright an indefensible position. If most filmmakers nowadays share your views, then no wonder why the quality of film music has gone so low. I do agree though that there have been many examples of lame movies with low production value (especially in the eighties) that have been greatly enhanced, sometimes saved, by some full blown orchestral scores that brought them the additional class, elegance and prestige they were missing on screen. I also agree that at times, some films could have used a lighter score instead of an excessive, heavy symphonic powerhouse. But this is no excuse for accepting the fact that film music becomes simpler and dumber. To use again the spaghettis with meat balls metaphor, it would be like accepting to eat rotten meat balls just because the other ingredients are supposedly in better quality.

Sirusjr

10-08-2011, 05:51 PM

I wanted to jump in on this issue of the value of film music and whether it derives mainly from the combination of images and sound in the movie or has standalone value.

I think everyone here can safely say that at some point or an other they have downloaded a soundtrack for a movie that is considered to be so bad that they don't want to watch the film. Sometimes you will go watch the film despite the warnings and wish you hadn't--I feel I have been partially scarred for life from watching Jack the Giant Killer, the movie was that bad. However, I did watch it to help me gain an additional appreciation for the music and what it was meant to convey emotionally.

This, I think is key. Most film music, whether droning synth or sweeping orchestral is meant at some level to convey a certain emotion. The beauty of emotions is that many times the casual listener can listen to a piece for the first time and pick up a certain emotion that he feels is present in the music. Now I recognize that there may be problems with this because some listeners may hear emotions that are different than what was originally intended. However, as long as there is an emotional response to the music then I think it was well made.

Listeners really have two ways to determine what the composer wanted to convey with the music, watching the film or reading an essay in the liner notes about the themes presented in the music. Ironically, I believe that the least effective way of determining this is watching the actual film. The reason is the listener may not understand the motivations behind the characters or their other feelings well enough to grasp the nuance that is meant to be conveyed in the music. In rare cases the listener may have available to him some liner notes that contain an essay describing what the music is meant to convey in each cue. These can be very instructive and help the listener appreciate the music much more. Some films, like Explorers, I don't really want to watch but thankfully the Intrada release contains track by track info in the booklet so I don't have to.

JonC

10-08-2011, 07:13 PM

What I'm objecting to is... how can I word this correctly. Maybe I should be more blunt: Are you saying that it's an entirely yes/no binary state, where music is either appropriate or inappropriate, and that there is no room for two films with appropriate music to differentiate from each other based on the quality of their music?
Within the context of a film, yes, all that matters is whether it is appropriate. When listening to a score in isolation, (which has nothing to do with it's creation,) then obviously there is a difference. Keep in mind that within the context of a film, quality may (and usually does,) have a correlation with appropriateness. But they are not the same. Your math analogy is a fair one. But there are other factors, including time, money, and talent.
Film making is a big, expensive, complicated process. By art standards, it is probably the most complicated and expensive art form ever created. (I consider architecture to be a craft not an art, but that is another debate for another day.) In every component, it is a fight between increasing standards and doing the bare minimum. The controlling criterion are appropriateness vs. resources (time, money, talent, etc.) Disney, which pushed the envelope of animation in the 'Illusion of Life' mode, eventually found that one could push too far. By the 1960's, they had begun to recycle animation from earlier films. They weren't the lead characters (which were still new,) and audiences didn't notice. Recycling of designs and and voice actors would come later. Their success is debatable. (I'm not a fan of this approach.) In terms of music in the context of a film, there is such a thing as good enough, and that standard is lower than it is for listening to it in isolation. Where this line is a continuing debate that changes from film to film, but the phenomena still exists. That is unfortunate for score fans, such as us, but as I said before, we are not part of the equation.

As for why and how the music was created, that seems like an obvious thing to me. Music being a powerful emotional lever, part of the toolkit in the art and craft of filmmaking, and so on. The scene-to-music and music-to-scene attachment is part of the side effect; it's worth mentioning because it's a big sign that the music was both good and well used. Some may take the artistic leap of using an intentionally sparse and low-impact soundtrack, to specifically avoid that attachment so that we focus on whatever else the filmmaker wants us to focus on... but I don't think that's the kind of soundtrack that gets discussed much here. I'll try to describe some of the disliked stuff in context of this sub-discussion: I'd say it's when the music is only being used to get our heart rate up or down on command but fails to move us in any way. That's an entirely different choice than to minimize impact; it's definitely being used for impact, but it's losing so much potential in the process, perversely resulting in less impact.

This is only half the reason for film music. The other half, 'audio glue,' is key in understanding why music is in film and why the term appropriate is more important than good. (Which is not an argument for bad music.) Once films moved past the Lumiere Brothers and Edison into longer formats, it became clear that something was missing. That something was sound. Not because people needed to hear words, or car horns, or gunshots, but because the process of editing images, even with skill, creates an effect that can be disjointed. Music, any music, can fill that gap. (Film school experiment: Everybody makes a short silent bit involving camera work and editing. As a second assignment, all the students are asked to find music that works with their pre-edited films. We all do, working very hard to find just the right piece. The results are shown and graded. Then the instructor starts randomly swapping out music and image and...it still works. The core nature of editing as proven by Eisenstein in the '20s, that the mind will assume a relationship is present even if none is intended, applies to music as well. The trick, the art, is controlling that relationship.)
From very early on, silent movies ceased to be silent. The cliche is a guy improvising on a piano, but the reality in bigger theaters was a band, if not a whole orchestra. Most of the bigger event films of the silent eras had scores composed for them. Yes for mood accents, but also, subconsciously, as audio glue.
When sound came about, early audio mixing was primitive or non existent. Moreover, sound reproduction did not allow for very subtle sound effects. (Optical audio tracks are a horrible storage medium.) So music had to carry the load. Because of interference from the noise early cameras made, camera work was also limited. This increases the demand on the music. Because no matter how brilliant the content, the form is still rudimentary. Music was the only glue available.
Silence, true silence, by the way, can work, but only as an accent. Building a whole film with it, let alone many films, doesn't really work outside of experimental cinema.
As sound editing became more sophisticated, rich music sound beds became supplemented by rich audio beds. Now music wasn't the only way, or necessarily the best way, to hold a scene together. As that sonic experience deepened, it begins to conflict with the experience of the music. A choice is necessary, not yes or no, but a balance of depth of ambient and effects audio with depth (not volume) of music. The appropriate answer depends on the decisions of the filmmaker (not the composer.) This not to say that rich music is bad or wrong, or that you can just toss a drum machine into a fight scene and everything will be fine. It's a balance. My point is that where that balancing point is in a film is different than where it is in a concert piece. Consequently, a film score, especially a modern film score, will sound less rich in comparison. Not only did the composer have less time to work on it, but the the extra depth is not required, may conflict with other audio, or simply be lost by the time the final mix is achieved.

I guess I'm basically agreeing with you that context is important, while additionally claiming that context is portable.

That it can be portable does not mean that it was made to be portable. I'm not saying that film scores can't be enjoyed outside of context (I'm listening to 1941 as I type this,) or evaluated outside of context, or compared with concert music or anything else. Merely that there is a huge asterisk next to all of these, in that you are taking them out of context when you do so.

Not a very good analogy, either; the frames of the pictures aren't actually supposed to have to do with the subject of the picture. Crossing it to movie analogy, the frame is just furniture, like knowing the brand of sunglasses the main characters are wearing. To lean on Vader again, though, the music is intentionally part of it. Here's Darth Vader, all in black, having his awesome voice and being menacing, and here's his menacing theme music in the background. It just wouldn't be the same without the music.
Actually, picture frames do matter. It's not an accident that modern art doesn't use them, (but recently painted portraits still do.) Even in art photography, the choice of framing (or not framing,) is something that is approached with much care.

On a separate note, everyone who has seen a work print of Star Wars (pre-music,) says that the score made the film. I am not arguing against music in film, or that it can be crap, or that it's not important, only that film score fans (myself included,) often have our priorities out of order.

I maintain that it's got an element of truth to it, though.

No there isn't. It is no part of the decision making process. Composer are selected because, in no particular order, a) the director has worked with them before, b) the studio can afford them, c) they did the score for a successful movie they are trying to emulate (i.e. type casting.) Hans Zimmer's movie scores tend to sound the same because they hire him to imitate himself. He doesn't do this because he can't sound different, they do not want him to. Not because they feel it will sell albums, but because he did it in a blockbuster before, and they are doing everything they can to load the dice for success. It has a perverse logic. You spend 100 million dollars on a film, why would you take a chance with an unknown composer, or a known composer doing something new?
Usually, if you hear a score by a composer that sounds different from their normal output, it is because they are working for a director they've worked with before. He's doing something different, so he gives the composer a chance to be different. If the film's a hit, the composer can look forward to being typecast as something else.
Typecasting among crew used to be business as usual during the studio era and applied to just about everybody, including editors, writers and directors. It's less rigid now, but still happens.

I'll say it again, film score buyers have no impact whatsoever in any part of choosing a composer, their style or the final music made for a film. We are a fringe. Most major studios also have their own record label. Licensing it out to people like Varese means less money for them since they have to give Varese their cut. It's literally not worth the hassle for them, when they can make much, much more doing pop albums.
Respectfully,
JonC

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

I wanted to jump in on this issue of the value of film music and whether it derives mainly from the combination of images and sound in the movie or has standalone value.
I just wanted to quickly address this before I got to work on replying to Artheirr.
For me the question is irrelevant. It is not a question of whether film scores have a stand alone value, it is that they are not created for a stand alone value. They may do so. That's why I listen to them. It is purely incidental.
JonC

P.S. I need to take a break for a bit. I've got some stuff I have to take care of before I can get back to the discussion.

evilwurst

10-08-2011, 08:39 PM

Sirusjr

10-08-2011, 09:14 PM

simonwu20923

10-08-2011, 09:55 PM

Sup guys, I'm another long time lurker that is intrigue by the current discussion and want to drop my 2cent in, which probably has little or nothing to do with the current discussion.

First off, I love classical music and many film scores, and many of my friends know that. So recently one of them showed me this youtube channel/clip that deeply disturbed me. Steven Sharp Nelson - The Cello Song - Bach is back (with 7 more cellos) The Piano Guys - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry4BzonlVlw&feature=relmfu)
After watching this youtube clip and quickly browse through the channel I had anobservation. That is the amount of hit it had gotten. In comparison to Yoyo Ma or Jacqueline du Pre's youtube clips, this guy really had an impressive amount of hits. I believe this clips really captured the state of film music today. It's not necessarily the composers lack ability to compose emotional/sophisticated/thematic/motivic scores, but simply because today's generation wants another kind of music, and this kind of music just needs to be 1. Loud 2. Simple 3. Lots of percussion (bass). Today's generation just want this type of music perhaps because this the only music that excite them, interest them.

I think today's generation have really short attention span, and are really used to this loud banging sounds. So when you present them something that develops overtime, thematic, sophisticated they are simply lose interest or cannot keep up with it. For example, lots of my coworkers love Zimmer's Inception score, which i didn't understand why, and when I present them Masamichi Amano's Giant Robo scores they are utterly turn off by it.

This is of course my amateur take on the current state of film scores. Quite sad actually.

Sirusjr

10-08-2011, 10:14 PM

I don't find that to be disturbing and I think that guy has a lot of talent. I especially like another video from the same guys because it shows how it is possible to make these sorts of beats from using purely instruments without doing a lot of stuff with synthesizers.
Jon Schmidt - Michael Meets Mozart - 1 Piano, 2 Guys, 100 Cello Tracks- feat. Steven Sharp Nelson - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_292866&v=rR94NDIfGmA&feature=iv&src_vid=Ry4BzonlVlw)

arthierr

10-08-2011, 10:18 PM

Ok. Then we really did read each other correctly, and we (JonC and I) really do fundamentally disagree. (I enjoyed debating it though. Very enlightening conversation that touched on a lot of aspects of everything). Here's where I go back to lurking and listening like normal.

Pretty impressive first participation here, I have to say. I would be interested in more posts from you, if you happen to be in the mood for this again.

For me the question is irrelevant. It is not a question of whether film scores have a stand alone value, it is that they are not created for a stand alone value. They may do so. That's why I listen to them. It is purely incidental.

I don't even understand this reply (again). It just seems to contradict itself.

Anyway, JonC, I really appreciate your participation here, and indeed you owe me a reply, which is very welcome. But, I really do hope that this reply will make a lot of sense this time, because (and I don't try to offense, but just to state things as I experimented them) the more I see your successive posts, the less I understand your points. In fact, I really don't see where this discussion is going. Basically, I can see two types of things in your posts:

1) Some perfectly clear and sensible ideas about film scoring, like for instance the idea that composers are very limited in their possibilities and choices, which is mostly true (not 100% though). But these ideas have nothing original or extraordinary to them, since most people in this thread and most film score fans in general already know such things since a long time. So I don't really see why you felt the need to bring them up.

2) A mishmash of statements either extreme, or contradictory, or vague, or seemingly pointless (again, no offense, just the impression I got).

So, for the sake of clarity and sound communication, I would really appreciate if in your next post, you could put your important points in tidy, orderly list form: 1) 2) 3)..., so everybody can clearly see and understand them. It would also be a good idea to precise the bottom line of your intervention here, IE why you started to talk about these things and what exactly you're trying to prove. To that effect, I don't recommend you to post overlong and ponderous replies, but rather close, structured and clear replies. Go for cla-ri-ty!

P.S. I need to take a break for a bit. I've got some stuff I have to take care of before I can get back to the discussion.
No hurry, I also post things here only when I can. Priorities, priorities.

Sup guys, I'm another long time lurker that is intrigue by the current discussion and want to drop my 2cent in, which probably has little or nothing to do with the current discussion.

So sweet to see some lurkers coming out of the woods recently. I'll check your post later, good Sir. Thank you for joining the party.

simonwu20923

10-09-2011, 12:22 AM

No doubt that this guy has talent. I'm just pointing out this is what the current generation want to hear. What I'm disturbed about is how many of us today lost the ability to appreciate something that is perhaps less "loud & percussion heavy". I'm quite sure if this guy just play Bach straight up as a solo cello piece, there would not be that many hits. Notice how the number of hits directly correlates the amount of instruments and percussion used in a clip.
Again, I'm not bashing on the musicians here, they are indeed talented. I'm just amused/disturbed at the correlation and what it might signifies.

Faleel

10-09-2011, 12:31 AM

I do not see how that video is any worse than Goldsmith....

evilwurst

10-09-2011, 02:17 AM

Actually, doing a youtube search of just "cello", the first result I see is the original Bach piece... with over 8 million views.
(I'm not sure how reliable these results are. The first result I see for "clarinet" is a man playing a carrot! Oh, youtube...)

The youth to worry about are represented by... say... the car I can feel coming a mile way, due to the trunk full of subwoofers whumpa whumpa whumping. That one is likely to have severe hearing damage by now. (I'm not against popular music, just against that guy driving by at 1 AM with volume levels that'd make Disaster Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotblack_Desiato) smile).

I try not to let it bother me. It helps to think of the local high schools and their perpetually popular bands, chorus, and the occasional orchestra. That is a lot of teenage musicians.

herbaciak

10-09-2011, 08:17 AM

I'm just pointing out this is what the current generation want to hear. What I'm disturbed about is how many of us today lost the ability to appreciate something that is perhaps less "loud & percussion heavy". I'm quite sure if this guy just play Bach straight up as a solo cello piece, there would not be that many hits.

Imo you are wrong on that. This piece is very, very recognizable. Even if U think U don't know it, then there is very big chance that U actually know it. This version is popular, cause it's fresh, it brings lot's of fun to piece that we all know. It's amusing to hear new (and really awesome) rendition of thing that we already know. And because of that it's popular. Not because people can't listen to single cello. Check the POTC theme from those guys - one piano instead of an "orchestra" and 2 milion views. Why? Cause people want to listen to new and different versions of things that they already know. Not in a long term but just for fun. I guess. You used bad example for actually existing problem.

simonwu20923

10-09-2011, 10:50 AM

Perhaps I word it incorrectly so you all had the impression that I have some sort of twisted indignation toward their rendition of Bach's Cello suite, that is simply not the case. I'm just pointing out there's a positive correlation between the number of instruments/percussion used and the amount of hits it get. Of course it's just my theory and a rather rough generalization, and thus doesn't apply to everything like the Laws of thermodynamic do. I would also like to point out how fast it achieved such a high hit for this piece, only a few months and it already received millions of hit.

It Is fun to hear something new. New rendition, new arrangements, new transcriptions, and etc. However, i do not believe that is the sole reason why that youtube clip is so popular. Let me give you an example then. Mozart's Turkish March is also widely popular and everyone probably heard it before. Volodos transcribed the piece and is simply wonderful. Volodos plays Turkish March(Mozart,trans.by Volodos) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGq8xDlXVDY&feature=related) Notice how many hits it got. If it is purely popular because it's a good rendition (and com'on, it's not like it's a shit in my pants kind of good), why didn't Volodos transcription received same amount of attention.

of course, I could be just utterly wrong. :(

Hopefully I didn't rub you guys off the wrong way. If that is the case, maybe some music can help.

Chinese Symphonic Pieces of Huang An-Lun Vol. I
[IMG]

Orchestral/Ethnic
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OT82D0ME)

Apology ahead of time if someone already uploaded this before.

jakob

10-09-2011, 05:44 PM

Perhaps I word it incorrectly so you all had the impression that I have some sort of twisted indignation toward their rendition of Bach's Cello suite, that is simply not the case. I'm just pointing out there's a positive correlation between the number of instruments/percussion used and the amount of hits it get. Of course it's just my theory and a rather rough generalization, and thus doesn't apply to everything like the Laws of thermodynamic do. I would also like to point out how fast it achieved such a high hit for this piece, only a few months and it already received millions of hit.

It is fun to hear something new. New rendition, new arrangements, new transcriptions, and etc. However, I do not believe that is the sole reason why that youtube clip is so popular. ... why didn't Volodos' transcription receive the same amount of attention.
...
of course, I could be just utterly wrong. :(

Oh come on, both of those videos are just the typical "pop classical" or whatever they're calling it these days e.g., Jon Schmidt, Yanni, and Bocelli. It's vapid, it's empty, and it's easy to listen to for those who can't stomach the real thing. All the people that don't like real symphonic classics hear these and say "see, I'm cultured! I like classical music!" and wave them around like some kind of standard to validate their musical taste. The crowd that listens to and enjoys "the good stuff" has and always will be MUCH smaller than those that do not, and this is reflected in youtube page views much of the time.

Anyway, that volodos performance was a very nice and impressive rendition of mozart, and I'm also listening to your Huang-An Lun upload right now which is beautiful so far.

arthierr

10-09-2011, 10:22 PM

Most film music, whether droning synth or sweeping orchestral is meant at some level to convey a certain emotion. The beauty of emotions is that many times the casual listener can listen to a piece for the first time and pick up a certain emotion that he feels is present in the music. Now I recognize that there may be problems with this because some listeners may hear emotions that are different than what was originally intended. However, as long as there is an emotional response to the music then I think it was well made.

If the audience feels an emotion different than what was originally intended, then the film composer did a terrible job, and his piece is a bad one, since he failed to express what he wanted and professionally HAD to express. It's not right to say that as long as there is an emotional response, then the music is well made, since *all* music arouse more or less emotion. If you watch an happy scene and the music induces sad reactions, it does indeed arouse an emotion, but can we say it's well made?

Listeners really have two ways to determine what the composer wanted to convey with the music, watching the film or reading an essay in the liner notes about the themes presented in the music. Ironically, I believe that the least effective way of determining this is watching the actual film. The reason is the listener may not understand the motivations behind the characters or their other feelings well enough to grasp the nuance that is meant to be conveyed in the music. In rare cases the listener may have available to him some liner notes that contain an essay describing what the music is meant to convey in each cue. These can be very instructive and help the listener appreciate the music much more. Some films, like Explorers, I don't really want to watch but thankfully the Intrada release contains track by track info in the booklet so I don't have to.

There's a third way, if I may. It's called... Just listening to the music!

Remember when Mike posted his piece "the Race" and I analyzed it HERE (http://forums.ffshrine.org/f92/big-orchestral-action-music-thread-57893/332.html#post1764478)? Is it magic? Do I have super powers to be able to do that without images or liner notes? Of course not. When a piece of film music is very well done, competently written, structured, meaningful, etc. then its meaning naturally flows from it. When you listen closely, deeply to such piece, its message appears clearly and obviously. Of course, attentive musical listening and analysis is a skill that has to be developed over time, but once you get used to it, it becomes natural and you are then able to better appreciate (good, well written) film scores since you understand them more.

Now, as you rightly point out, reviews or liner notes are also a great help in the better comprehension of a film score, and shouldn't be neglected when available. I believe you're also right when you say that watching the film doesn't help that much, probably because watching it is too much of an absorbing experience to really give the possibility to fully focus on the music and its fine nuances, not to mention the distracting presence of sfx and dialogues. You really have to listen to the music alone to fully being able to understand it. Another great way to do that would be to listen closely to the music while watching the images only, without the sfx and dialogues, a bit like watching a silent movie.

today's generation wants another kind of music, and this kind of music just needs to be 1. Loud 2. Simple 3. Lots of percussion (bass). Today's generation just want this type of music perhaps because this the only music that excite them, interest them.

I think today's generation have really short attention span, and are really used to this loud banging sounds. So when you present them something that develops overtime, thematic, sophisticated they are simply lose interest or cannot keep up with it. For example, lots of my coworkers love Zimmer's Inception score, which i didn't understand why, and when I present them Masamichi Amano's Giant Robo scores they are utterly turn off by it.

Certainly today's generation wants simpler, louder, percussive music, but I don't believe it's because of a generation effect or a mentality change. The fact is that the vast majority of human beings are spontaneously attracted to simple music, which gives them immediate and easy satisfactions. But only a fringe of the population can really (IE not by faux intellectualism) understand and appreciate more complex, advanced forms of music such as classical music, high end jazz or orchestral scores. So no wonder why this guy gets so many hits, since his arrangement makes the original piece more appealing to the "common ear".

But don't take this as a criticism of his arrangement, far from there. In fact I find it really good and well done. He manages to respect the original piece, and at the same time to enhance it in quite a pleasant way. Actually, his piece is technically MORE complex than the original one since he adds several layers of intruments to it. I especially enjoyed the fact that he uses many of the ways a cello can be played, my favorite being the superb tremolo starting at 1:10.

I'm just pointing out there's a positive correlation between the number of instruments/percussion used and the amount of hits it get. Of course it's just my theory and a rather rough generalization, and thus doesn't apply to everything like the Laws of thermodynamic do.

If this theory was correct, the guy playing the Pirates of the Caribbean theme on piano would have very few hits, and an orchestral piece featuring a lot of instruments would have millions of hits. Mmh... Certainly a rough generalization, as you said. ;)

Chinese Symphonic Pieces of Huang An-Lun Vol. I
Thank you! I didn't know this one, and it looks quite rare. Let's give it some more visible presentation, then.

Chinese Symphonic Pieces of Huang An-Lun
Vol. I

Orchestral/Ethnic

megaupload.com/?d=OT82D0ME

(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/covertuq.jpg/)

tangotreats

10-09-2011, 11:14 PM

NO time as usual to participate in this conversation, which is a shame because there is so much inflammatory material above that I could talk for hours! ;)

Despite recent animosity, I'm with Arthierr's side entirely. I know, there's nothing more than following up a complex essay with "Me too!" but when one doesn't have time to fully extrapolate one's point of view, one can at least indicate the general direction of his thoughts on the subject... ;)

In the mean time... Gundam Age has started today, and THE SCORE IS GLORIOUS. I mean, simply wonderful. 2011 is turning into the best year for anime music for quite a while. Best of all, it's given another comparatively untested composer a chance to shine; Kei Yoshikawa has only a handful of titles to his name, including last year's hideous SD Gundam Sangokuden Brave Battle Warriors... but here he comes, out of nowhere, with a mature symphonic score that really exceeds my wildest expectations. Glorious stuff.

In other good news, Yoshihisa Hirano's somewhat lobotomised score for HunterXHunter has picked up quite a bit this week; he's still reigning in that ole' dissonance, but it's developing into a score I believe will reveal itself as fully exploring his genius in due course. Since the series is planned at 50 episodes (with the option for 50 more if it does well) it's safe to say there is bucketloads of music... I have a good feeling about it, for sure.

JonC

10-10-2011, 02:56 AM

Ok, so apparently I’m not being clear.
Let me start over.
It is formed with an initial proposition, as well as several tangents.

1. To begin with, my comments began with an observation about dissonance. Specifically the comment that dissonance was becoming common in music, as demonstrated by its heavy use in film scores.
2. I have no opinion on dissonance; on whether it is good, bad, music or noise.
3. My concern is the validity of comparing dissonance used in film scores with its use in other forms of music.
4. Film score music is not designed to be listened to in isolation. Not only is it part of a larger sonic experience (including dialogue, sfx and ambient sound,) It is also a component of a larger gestalt, that is, the film as a complete artistic entity. (See #31.)
5. Additionally, because it is a component of a larger artistic entity, those experiencing it (and audiences aren’t just participating with their ears,) are experiencing something fundamentally different than the concert experience.
6. Because it is something different, the issues of music versus noise or dissonance versus consonance in film music cannot be compared directly with use of dissonance in other forms of music.
7. This does not mean that film scores cannot be appreciated in isolation.
8. This does not mean that film scores cannot be evaluated (by any criteria) in the same terms as other forms of music, only that there are huge caveats as to how they may be compared directly with non film scores.

This was the argument I was proposing. The comments I made afterwards are related to comments following my first post.
Continuing:

9. The priorities of what makes a film score work within the context of the film (appropriateness,) are different from those of what makes music work in a concert setting (‘quality.’)
10. This is not to say that quality in film score music is meaningless. Typically, within a given mode, higher quality is more appropriate than lower quality.
11. However, they are not the same. The best choices for a concert listening experience may not be the most appropriate choices for the film they are meant to be in.
12. This is part (but not all) of the reason why score albums are not the same as the recording sessions. Some composers (like John Williams) optimize their album work to make what they feel is a better listening experience than the actual isolated score.

Separately:
13. My remarks about the phenomena of ‘audio glue’ are clearly not being understood. This is understandable. Ultimately it is a film theory concept, and not a music one. It has an impact on film music. You have to trust me on this. I understand if you don’t.
14. You won’t find any notes on this effect from composers. It comes from filmmakers and subconsciously guides their decisions as to what they consider appropriate or inappropriate.
15. I accept that some of my arguments about film quality versus appropriateness cannot be explained if this premise is not accepted.
16. In lieu of that, understand that certain elements of film scores, especially depth of sound, are being driven by changes in other areas of filmmaking.

Also:
17. I have made several comments about the control composer have over their work. A lot of it covers ground that has been covered before.
18. I’m covering it again because of repeated remarks, here and on other threads; that continue the myth that composers are the primary decision makers in their work. They’re not.
19. Unlike classical composers, pop composers, or the composers of most other formats, film score composers work under intense restraints on time and content.
20. Many of the complaints made about composers; about plagiarism, lack of variety, going with the ‘in style,’ or even some comments about overall quality, are, I believe, unfair.
21. Clearly, there are good composers and there are poor composers. But the issue of whether a score is good or bad (or derivative, or whatever,) cannot entirely be laid at the feet of the composer. They write what they are told to write. Sometimes they’re told to write crap.
22. This does not mean you have to like bad score music. Only that you cannot always blame the composer.
23. If, however, a composer starts taking claim for dreaming up something that obviously isn’t his, well then he deserves whatever happens to him.

And while I’m here:
24. Film scores are not written for film score fans. I thought this would be obvious, but apparently it isn’t.
25. No composer, no director, and no studio is thinking about film score fans when making decisions about what the score will be like.
26. Songs, whether written for the film, or preexisting, are a different matter.
27. The market for film scores is a tiny fraction of the recording industry. This, and the extra costs and paperwork involved in releasing scores, will keep them a niche market.
28. This does not mean that it is invalid to enjoy film scores.
29. It does mean that a film score fan must not have unrealistic expectations about what scores are, why scores are, or how they are created.
30. This is not a slam against anyone on this board.

And then there’s:
31. Film is a complex combination of many different disciplines. Writing, acting, art direction, costume design, and many, many others.
32. Ultimately, the art that is the film is how these very different disciplines play together. This is more important then how they play separately.
33. Elements do clash. When they do, the filmmaker must judge who wins and who loses, based on how they combine for the final effect.
34. Because the elements are subservient to the greater whole, the standards for the elements are also subservient to the requirements of the film.
35. This is why the real standard to consider about an element (the cinematography, the acting, the score,) is not how they are in isolation, but only how everything combines to form a final piece (appropriateness.)
36. As I said before, it is generally the case that as the quality of a component increases, it benefits the film as a whole. But this is not an absolute.
37. It is reasonable to expect that an increase in quality if there is an increase in appropriateness.
38. It is unreasonable to expect an increase in quality if it leads to a decrease in appropriateness.
39. It is unrealistic to expect an increase in quality if it leads to no change in appropriateness.
40. Quality for me, especially in music, can be a nebulous aspect to define. It is therefore difficult to defend or attack this position without a specific definition of what ‘quality’ means in your argument.
41. The most common aspect associated with quality that can be effected by appropriateness, is depth of sound (as opposed to volume,) which is effected by the overall sound bed depth, and transitions, which can be effected by editing (before, as well as after recording.)

A note about notes:
This is a new conversation started since I began writing this, but as long as I’m sticking my neck out, I might as well go all the way.

42. There is nothing wrong with listening to a score in isolation.
43. There is nothing wrong with applying techniques of musical analysis to film scores; as long one remembers the caveats mentioned above.
44. Liner notes are a great source of information about the intentions of the composer.
45. However, the composer’s intentions are not the only ones affecting the score.
46. It is easier to analyze the composer’s work without the distractions of sound effects, dialogue, ambient tracks, or even image. A similar approach is often used for analyzing image by turning the sound down.
47. However, one must always remember that the ultimate standard of whether the composer has succeeded or failed is how score works while seeing the final film.

And finally:
48. For any given statement made above, you can always find a film that violates it.

I hope this makes my opinion clearer.
JonC

jacksbrain

10-10-2011, 11:41 AM

Great summary. Thanks!

tangotreats

10-10-2011, 09:13 PM

A few minutes from Gundam Age. Sorry about the sound quality. Removal of dialogue was rather difficult. I am really, really enjoying this score. The contemplative cue in the middle is just magical. And I could swear that it's quoting a previous Gundam score, but I'm not sure which one! Loving this, loving this! I wonder what orchestra is playing; it doesn't sound like the usual Japanese ensemble - or if it is, they've got themselves a new recording studio!!

Download __gundamage.mp3 from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/49VFKMOS/__gundamage.mp3_links)

Edit: The Internet is ripping the show to pieces, as expected - and the score has been singled out as "bland as hell" and the "low point of the show". Need I say more?

Doublehex

10-10-2011, 10:16 PM

Edit: The Internet is ripping the show to pieces, as expected - and the score has been singled out as "bland as hell" and the "low point of the show". Need I say more?

Really? I just looked up the respective thread on SomethingAwful, a site who is pretty much "blunt but honest", and the general consensus is that it is off to a good start. I decided to give it a shot based off of that...but I will never get over that kid's hair. It's not just the color - it looks like it's made out of playdoh! Japan, take it from someone who is the son of the hair stylist - hair does not work like that!

Faleel

10-11-2011, 12:15 AM

Zelda 2011 Concert Program:

Hyrule Theme
Princess Zelda Theme
Wind Waker Medley
Ocarina Melodies
Boss Battle Medley
Kakariko Village - Twilight Princess
Zelda's 25th Symphony (possibly the one from E3)
Ganondorf's Theme
Not quite legible, at least for us amateur Japanese readers - it seems to have some connection to Majora's Mask based on the artwork. I can make out the kanji for "small" and "item"...
Gerudo Valley
Ocarina of Time Hyrule Field Theme
Fairy Fountain Theme
Twilight Princess Medley
Legend of Zelda Main Theme

Trivia (to make you anti-ZREO people uneasy): Jeron Moore, who is the producer of the upcoming Zelda World Tour, is also the Producer of Twilight Symphony

tangotreats

10-11-2011, 12:16 AM

Great. It's fucked.

Faleel

10-11-2011, 12:17 AM

Just to say this though, FireGS is not Jeron Moore, so lets hope FGS is the Lucas, and JM is the Spielberg.

tangotreats

10-11-2011, 12:32 AM

This is true... I'd still wonder why that guy has ANYTHING to do with it... If he's not involved with the music in any way, it may be decent... But it's becoming clearer and clearer that this is NOT a Zelda Symphony.

It's "arrangements of Zelda music for orchestra" and those are a dime a dozen. I was going to go to see this in London, but looking at the venue (Hammersmith Apollo; NOT a classical music venue, and clearly indicative of the sort of audience they want to attract) and the general feeling I'm getting from it... This is going to be flashing lights, noisy fanboys, and nothing at all worthwhile from a musical perspective. Skyward Sword will be great. But this Zelda Symphony will turn out to be the biggest misnomer in the history of gaming.

JRL3001

10-11-2011, 06:15 PM

Hey guys.

I wanted to share a project my friends and I have been working on with you all. I know its not something usually posted here in this thread, but I value your guys opinions and have always liked the fact that everyone here puts thought and reason into their responses and gives an intelligent thought out point of view.

Anyways. This is our short film. It's in the final stages of post production. My friend directed and filmed the short, I did storyboard and acted in it. Do note you will recognize the music, by James Horner. This is the last part being worked on and sits in the film as a temp track while we await the final music to be completed and added into the mix.

I hope you guys like it, even unfinished, and look forward to what you have to say about it

Watch! (http://www.georgeretelas.com/projects/3709404)

JonC

10-12-2011, 02:49 AM

Thank you.
It's nice little piece. If the director is a first timer, it's a strong start.
You have a better DP than I usually do. Their are minor issues in a handful of shots, but nothing worth losing sleep over.
There are some nice angles. The acting gets the job done. There are some very nice choices with the design, especially the photographer's clothes.
More detailed notes will have to wait until after I have seen it a few more times. I should wait before I see it again.
I do have a few comments. It runs a little long. I see that you were timing to the beats in the music, but since the music is going to be replaced anyway, you should do what the material wants.
Clearly the music is the spine of the film. Unfortunately, this means the final music will have to be every bit as strong as the original.
Again, a very strong start.

Here's a little thing (http://youtu.be/B626eA_WruA) I did a while back. Completely different in tone and content.
JonC

Faleel

10-12-2011, 03:07 AM

JBarron2005

10-12-2011, 04:17 AM

I was actually hoping Mahito Yokota would be handling the orchestrations.... I guess this will be exactly what I thought it would be and that is a shame :(. Damn you, Nintendo.

Faleel

10-12-2011, 05:33 AM

I believe they worked closely with Kondo-san (and perhaps Yokota)

streichorchester

10-12-2011, 08:23 AM

Great. It's fucked.

I have to agree.

Apparently when it comes to game music the term "medley" means "we couldn't choose just one track and make a great arrangement, so here's a bunch of them in sequence."

If the music fails to tell a story, then the whole fantasy story-telling element of the very game the music came from is lost.

tangotreats

10-12-2011, 09:13 AM

I have to agree.

Apparently when it comes to game music the term "medley" means "we couldn't choose just one track and make a great arrangement, so here's a bunch of them in sequence."

If the music fails to tell a story, then the whole fantasy story-telling element of the very game the music came from is lost.

You would've thought that concept would be considered... since in Japan the element of plot and execution is still integral to gameplay... why not replicate that experience in the concert hall? Genuinely merge the genre of gaming and the genre of classical music in a way that plays to the strengths of both?

Or, alternatively, pick a bunch of cues that have been so over-exposed and over-used that pretty much anybody on the planet recognises them (not for their quality or uniqueness, but for their connection to the game itself), give them a workmanlike arrangement, stage the whole event like a Zelda Fan Convention With Super Orchestrated BGMs and Musics!!! and invite a bunch of stoners who will sit there going "Hehe, Zelda! Hehe, Zelda! Hehe, Zelda. What's all this classical shit? Oh wait ZELDA!!!"

:O

Vinphonic

10-12-2011, 11:15 AM

Zelda 25th anniversary concert will be jaw dropping - Official Nintendo Magazine (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/31315/zelda-25th-anniversary-concert-will-be-jaw-dropping/)

I get the feeling that Skyward Sword will be more of a Symphony than the actual concert, but I seriously hope the "movements" will be more than just a name for a number of tracks glued together.
In the article they mention cinematic storytelling or cohesive structure aside from the "BEST ZELDA THING EVER!!!" so the question is if they are competent enough as arrangers and orchestrators.

btw: Any news on Sahashi's Sacred Seven OST ? I recently ordered a bunch of "rare" Sahashi scores but I didn't want to spend more money on soundtracks this month. It has not appeared on the internet as of yet.

tangotreats

10-12-2011, 05:51 PM

I'll be in Tokyo on Saturday. If nothing shows up by then, I'll buy it and upload it from there. :)

What are the others you have ordered, my friend...? :D :D :D :D

Edit: Reading that interview, I am actually somewhat relieved: 1) Chad Seiter is the arranger, and if it has to be an American, I can't think of many others who deserve an opportunity like this. He's a fine composer and a superlative orchestrator. 2) The concert and the symphony are two different things; a full, classical, four movement symphony is coming on CD which has nothing to do with this concert.

So... Tentative enthusiasm restored.

Faleel

10-12-2011, 06:06 PM

I read that interview to say "This concert has the first 2 parts of the symphony (which will be on the CD that comes with SS), and the other two will be "unveiled" at a later concert"

Vinphonic

10-12-2011, 06:41 PM

@Tango

Just a few Television scores I could get my hands on:

- Tokyo niwa tsuki ikko-date
- Wonderful Life
- HANAYOME TO PAPA

Chiritotechin arrived a couple of days ago ... still humming the melodies and loving the mandolin ;)

Still looking for:
- Kyumei byoto 24 ji (all 3 OSTs)
- Pretty Woman
- Platonic Sex
- Naniwa no Hana
- Onna Keiji Mizuki
- Dekabeya
- Ashita ga Arusa
- Taikoki
- Saimin

Tried CDJapan and other stores but they are all out of print.
I'm really in a Sahashi mood lately so if you (or anyone else) have them, please let me know :)

tangotreats

10-12-2011, 08:36 PM

Naniwa no Hana doesn't exist, unfortunately... I have Kyumei Byoto 24 Ji OST 3 *somewhere*... as far as I remember the other two are not by Sahashi...

Faleel: Indeed, you're right - so the concert will be a taster of the symphony, and some extra fluffy stuff around the edges. Nice. :)

hater

10-13-2011, 03:18 AM

jakob

10-13-2011, 05:38 AM

why doesn�t anyone speak of Dark Souls? i don�t know who the composer is and i know its not hirano but its very hirano-esque, crazy, twisted ,dissonant yet epic and dramatic.like the game itself. the limited edition which doesn�t cost more has the score on a 74min cd.heard only 4 tracks so far but its really something special.creepy stuff.

It's by Motoi Sakuraba and has a couple tracks that are okay. It's a better score than Demon's Souls, but that's not saying much. It didn't really strike me as being similar to Hirano's style, but there is the odd similarity here and there.

Sirusjr

10-13-2011, 05:53 AM

It's by Motoi Sakuraba and has a couple tracks that are okay. It's a better score than Demon's Souls, but that's not saying much. It didn't really strike me as being similar to Hirano's style, but there is the odd similarity here and there.

Yeah, it was mostly a rehash of darker Sakuraba music from his more sinister scores except recorded with a live orchestra and choir this time. It does a good job presenting a dark mood but it didn't really stick out as anything memorable.

Doublehex

10-13-2011, 06:03 AM

I don't know where you guys are getting off. Both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls were awesome scores! The last thing you could say about either of them was that they were unmemorable. Demon's Souls is simpler, but it has a wonderfully eerie aura to it, whereas Dark Souls is much more classical in nature...but it is still morbid and epic.

herbaciak

10-13-2011, 05:25 PM

why doesn�t anyone speak of Dark Souls?

I rather wonder why noone speaks about Elfman's Cirque du Soleil score. Cause it's completely fantastic piece of music. Nothing new for Elfman, but really awesome listen. Sometimes sounds like Burtons Elfman, sometimes like late, more minimalistic Elfman. For me it is one of the best scores these year. Can't wait for release. Here you can listen to whole album:

Music of Cirque du Soleil's touring show | IRIS (http://www.cirquedusoleil.com/en/shows/iris/show/music.aspx)

As for Demon's Souls - it was interesting, odd, and had great mood, but overall it was pretty forgetable. The same is for Sakuraba's score - it's solid, with great mood, but it's nothing new to Sakuraba. Except for live orchestra. Good, but not great and not very memorable.

Sirusjr

10-13-2011, 07:44 PM

I wasn't too drawn to Elfman's Cirque du Soleil music. It was too flighty for my tastes and lacks any substantial melody to back it. Plus I've never been a fan of circus music and this sounds very much like that.

Aoiichi_nii-san

10-15-2011, 03:28 AM

Faleel

10-15-2011, 04:01 AM

NEW TINTIN SAMPLES: (note this video is of the last set of samples combined with the new set) John Williams: The Adventures of Tintin: Soundtrack Samples - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSEStLSPH0)

tangotreats

10-15-2011, 04:10 AM

Off-topic... but still hopefully relevant to your interests...

I have arrived safely in Tokyo - albeit right in the middle of a blizzard, and after a protracted argument with Japanese customs officers who were unable to decipher the words "chocolate biscuits" on a box of chocolate biscuits in my luggage and therefore decided to accuse me of trying to sneak through customs without paying tax! (On a �3 box of biscuits purchased as a gift for a friend.)

Said box of biscuits was passed to a total of five different customs officers and the fifth eventually allowed it through - but not before the entire contents of my luggage had been emptied all over the floor of the customs hall and absolutely EVERY item therein examined and poked and prodded to within an inch of my life. At one point they were holding my underpants up to the light to make sure I hadn't concealed drugs in the fly. I kid you not.

A box of sugar cubes also attracted attention due to it leaking white powder all over my clothes; that particular suspicion assuaged only when said customs officer *consumed* a sugar cube and accepted that it was in fact common granulated sugar.

Finally, they accused me of lying about my intentions in visiting the country; because I had stated "tourist" on my landing card... and they had decided that my outfit was more fitting a businessman and therefore I was there under false pretences! (For the record, I put a tie on when I fly because lone male travellers who are well dressed tend to be considered first for possible seat upgrades because they fit in well with the majority of the business/first class passengers already there; I've been lucky a couple of times in the past and besides, God dammit, I like wearing a necktie.)

ANYWAY, all the aside, I'm here in gloomy, rainy, grey-skied Asakusa safe and sound. And since I haven't slept for 48 hours, I am GOING TO BED!

Goodnight!

Doublehex

10-15-2011, 06:57 AM

Man, I tell you. This thread gives us the best stories! :D

HansBadelt

10-15-2011, 09:37 AM

Few tracks of Sacred Seven OST by Toshihiko Sahashi :D

TOSHIHIKO SAHASHI - Sacred Seven OST (BGM 35) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukdeeIJAlYw)
TOSHIHIKO SAHASHI - Sacred Seven OST (BGM 31) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDh9GYAoaPk)

Someone share this album please :D

Sirusjr

10-15-2011, 11:10 PM

I wanted to direct everyone's attention to the score of The Artist by Ludovic Bource posted elsewhere on the forum. Quite the lovely classic styled orchestral/jazz score.

arthierr

10-15-2011, 11:23 PM

I have arrived safely in Tokyo

Good news! How about posting here a daily report on your great adventures in the Land of the Rising Sun? (In the last episode, our brave hero had to face the fierce guardians defending the entrance of the mysterious land. In the next episode, will he survive the inhabitant's instinctive fear of gaijins, and resist the perilous temptation of entering karaoke bars? Coming soon to a thread near you...) That would be so nice to your good friends here who don't have the possibility to visit this country (even though they incredibly want to). I just (virtually) visited Asakusa with Google Street View, and the place is so nice, so lively! There seems to be heaps of places to visit and stuff to do.

And don't forget to kiss a few ladies for me.

Ok, so apparently I’m not being clear.
Let me start over.

!!! I expected something like a dozen of big points rather than 48 little ones! Anyway, thanks for rephrasing your views. I'll check this post later and have some comments, if necessary or relevant.

This is our short film. It's in the final stages of post production. My friend directed and filmed the short, I did storyboard and acted in it. Do note you will recognize the music, by James Horner. This is the last part being worked on and sits in the film as a temp track while we await the final music to be completed and added into the mix.

I hope you guys like it, even unfinished, and look forward to what you have to say about it

Watch! (http://www.georgeretelas.com/projects/3709404)

I'm no expert in filmmaking, so my opinion on this aspect is likely to be dull and simplistic, but I found the film to be pretty good and well done, nicely filmed, with a clear and precise structure (apparently moulded around the score). Now, about the music, the thing that struck me was that it sounded a little excessive, disproportionate to what appeared on screen. The tempo of the piece is too fast, the orchestrations too rich, and the music doesn't emotionally restrain itself at the end as the guy packs up and clears off. To exaggerate what I mean, it would be like scoring a scene featuring a guy walking to the post office with the raiders march! I know it's a temp track though, so it's normal that things aren't 100% accurate. Very good musical choice anyway (I forgot how beautiful this score was).

Hey guys, just dropping by with a few more interesting articles you might like. There have been a lot of debates here about the quality, memorability and recycling of modern film music, and what I have here are a few bits about what directors in Hollywood are saying about their music, as well as independent directors. So:

What directors want from composers: Hollywood and indie

Great! I love those very good and pertinent articles you happen to dig out. Will check these ones. Comments later.

tangotreats

10-16-2011, 12:36 AM

I certainly will - I wondered if the off-topic-ness would be welcome or not! I will try to work music into it somehow! Not quite sure what I'm doing today because it depends on whether my friend who promised to visit me in Tokyo actually shows up! We shall see!

[EDIT: Friend dropped me in the shit. Not sure where I'm going. Kawagoe Festival is today... so perhaps...]

Since last I posted, I went shopping to get some emergency supplies for the hotel (snacks, drinks, etc) and had a very strange meal that cooks itself when you take it out of the box. I'm staying in a very cheapo hotel but you can get *everything* out of the vending machines. A very bizzare experience - out pops this box... you pull the string on the side and it starts making a noise like a rocket taking off. Come back in ten minutes, the fizzing and the billowing smoke stops, and there's your dinner. Pretty tasty - not exactly gourmet cuisine but still a good meal and just right if you're too knackered to leave the hotel but want some hot food.

Staff are very nice and have a surprisingly good command of English - thick accents are a bit hard to understand sometimes, but if you're patient, speak slowly, and listen carefully, communication is easy. When I went in, I actually started by speaking Japanese but I guess I made a right hash of it, because they answered me in English!

So, that's it for now - I'm off for a shower. Might get to Shibuya today. If so, Sacred Seven may well be in the offing... ;)

Bye for now,
Tangotreats in Tokyo

TazerMonkey

10-16-2011, 03:39 AM

I'm staying in a very cheapo hotel but you can get *everything* out of the vending machines. A very bizzare experience - out pops this box... you pull the string on the side and it starts making a noise like a rocket taking off. Come back in ten minutes, the fizzing and the billowing smoke stops, and there's your dinner.

My new mission in life is to visit Japan.

tangotreats

10-16-2011, 06:15 AM

This country is batshit insane. Yesterday was freezing cold, grey sky, and pissing rain. I didn't need no train to get to the hotel; just open your jacket and point yourself in the right direction and the 90mph winds take you right there. Today I walked outside of the hotel expecting the worst and it's almost 90 degrees, BLAZING sunshine, scary humidity, and completely still air.

You'll be pleased to hear I've just got back from Shibuya, which I am now convinced is actually the international soundtrack repository of the entire universe. They have EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING. You want the FSM Superman box? It's there. Andrew Pearce's Cinema Symphony? It's there. Every damn thing ever released.

And.... SACRED SEVEN! Which I now have in my greasy little paws...

...Which means, so do you.

Download TS_SS.zip from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/XU2TDZZ5/TS_SS.zip_links)

;)

Not Sahashi's best ever, but still a very solid score and a great listen.

I tried finding Tiger and Bunny as well but I couldn't locate it in the limited time I had before passing out from heat stroke and dehydration. But I am going back later in the week, so I will keep on trying.

HansBadelt

10-16-2011, 08:15 AM

Thanks for Sacred Seven :D

Btw, you really have awesome adventure there, tango :D

Vinphonic

10-16-2011, 11:36 AM

Huge Thanks for Sacred Seven !
Tiger and Bunny is not out yet as far as I remember. Btw, love hearing more about Tango's little adventure in Tokyo ;)
Here in Germany we even had a little broadcast about Tokyo on the cultural channel recently but it was more about Nobuo Uematsu ranting on Square Enix, Maids, Cosplay and other silly stuff :D ... but in the end it turned into a somewhat depressing analysis of the country itself.

jo12345678

10-16-2011, 11:38 AM

Thanks for Sacred Seven!!
Have a great trip!!!
=)

Sirusjr

10-16-2011, 07:33 PM

Thanks for Sacred Seven. According to VGMDB its not 100% Sahashi but also has music composed by Yuki Kajiura, 三橋希幸, manzo, and Dan Miyakawa.

Doublehex

10-16-2011, 08:00 PM

Thanks for Sacred Seven. According to VGMDB its not 100% Sahashi but also has music composed by Yuki Kajiura, 三橋希幸, manzo, and Dan Miyakawa.

Actually, those additional artists only did the songs, according to the same site. Sasashi did the score, I believe.

Thagor

10-16-2011, 08:38 PM

Thanks for Sacred Seven, Tango :) It�s great!

tangotreats

10-17-2011, 01:00 AM

Correct. Score is all Sahashi. Sorry about the tags - I thought you guys would rather have it sooner with dodgy tags than in two days... ;)

As usual, the Kajiura nuts are all going potty over their idol's great work.... despite her only contributing a crap pop song comprising about 5% of the album's runtime!

Might have some more stuff in a couple of days. I'm not feeling too well today so might stay in and relax a bit.

Yesterday was Kawagoe Festival in Saitama Prefecture. My first time travelling out of Tokyo. Met some really friendly and unspeakably cute girls who spoke English, who showed me around. We ate Bonito noodles (a kind of shaved fishy substance... looked like very very thin slices of bacon) and drank gin at the side of the street. There are huge wooden floats that drive down the street (actually they're pulled along on ropes by dozens of people) - on the floats are big bands of traditional Japanese musicians. When two floats try to pass each other, they both turn to face each other and have a kind of play-off. It's bizzare and wonderful. Everybody is dressed traditionally of course, in a variety of masks. Geishas and businessmen, elderly gentlemen in kimono and trendy teenagers - the past and the present - all merging together. One girl - Akane - seemed to have a certain fascination with shoving food in my face without warning - every time I looked around there she was posting some new and frequently strange snack into my mouth. There were chocolate bananas, toffee apples, weird little bite-sized doughnut things, scarily hot Ginger noodles, and various other fascinating stuff.

This all finished up just before 10pm and it was a bit of a mad rush to get back to my hotel in time before the trains close - which they do at about 11pm. It's about 20-30 miles from Tokyo and I was really flagging by the time I got back to Ikebukuro. Just managed to muster up enough strength to catch the Metro back to Asakusa and weave drunkenly into the hotel, drink a giant bottle of Ume juice (kind of a plum but not really... difficult to describe but tasty) and collapse into bed.

So, on we go for another day - no plans as yet so we shall see what happens! :D

Tango "Sugoi Kawaii Gaijin"

Doublehex

10-17-2011, 01:15 AM

One girl - Akane - seemed to have a certain fascination with shoving food in my face without warning - every time I looked around there she was posting some new and frequently strange snack into my mouth.

I should visit Japan. Soon.

Vinphonic

10-17-2011, 07:45 PM

I want one of those cute girls you speak of ;)

Regardless, I recently checked out Fate/Zero and it's surprisingly entertaining but what really amazed me is the music ... specifically the composer Yuki Kajiura. I really like some of of her work but nothing really grabbed me or was anything remarkable. Some people respond the same way to Yasuharu Takanashi's music, which is a composer I really enjoy on the other hand but in most cases he is more of a guilty pleasure for me.
Anyway, while watching the show I have to remind myself that Kajiura is scoring this one because it's really really good.
Not as good as Gundam Age but definetly worth checking out. Perhaps this is another Ultraman Zero case.

EDIT: New Trailer and also new music for Ni No Kuni http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYsGjza-scE&feature=player_embedded

radliff

10-17-2011, 10:28 PM

thank you tango for the sahashi

Hella Oxide

10-17-2011, 11:28 PM

I haven't posted in this forums in a long time and while searching for other thins I stumbled into this great thread. I feel like a kid in a candy store or in a toy shop. I've read the whole thread (the 344 pages so far) in three days and it's amazing the amount of magnificent music.
I don't know music as all the posters here. However I deeply appreciate the work you're doing in letting this wonderful pieces reach our ears, however unworthy. Therefore I want to say thnak you all.

Sirusjr

10-17-2011, 11:41 PM

Welcome to the thread, please do not hesitate to ask for a re-upload of scores that were previously posted in this thread, especially if the user who originally posted them is not active any longer.

herbaciak

10-18-2011, 07:24 AM

NaotaM

10-18-2011, 07:53 AM

I don't understand why all the hatred towards Kajiura (cause I've seen it before...). I like a lot of her music (with two Xenosaga scores being my faves), she has her own style, I really like the way she combines electronica with orchestral sounds + all kinds of voices. She's not orchestral composer per se, but when she uses orchestra there's nothing to brag about. Not the greatest orchestrations ever, but far from being bad. Plus great melodies. So why some of you so much dislike her? For me she's more than solid composer with her own voice. True, this voice maybe does not speak to everyone, but it's not a reason to be so anti her I guess...

I have nothing in particular against Kajiura. She's not one of my favorites but I can lay back and let her work wash over me, given I'm in a very particular mood. Like Sakuraba, she took a long, looooong time to grow on me, though, and I feel she's terribly overrated(Let's face it; she's NO Yoko Kanno at all. The two composers are nowhere near in the same league and I find it astonishing that to this day, there exists scores of people who will come to actual blows trying to compare the two when they sahre nothing in common beyond A. they're both highly-prolific and popular and B. they're both women.) for one main reason. Kajiura has one clearly defined sound and style that she does very well, at times, but it's a style she never deviates from or evolves out of. Ever. And likely never will. High-pitched strings? Check. Wistful female vocals? Check. Wailing, atonal ambient soundscapes? Check.

Sometimes it works wonderfully, sometimes her work is gorgeous, and the worst I can muster personally about even my least favorite of her soundtracks;Elemental Gerad, Kara no Kyoukai and the currently-running Fate/Zero; is that I can barely recall a single note of them. Better to be awful than merely forgettable, maybe, but still, I never thought she was truly offensive to the ears. But I truly can't comprehend the gross, frothing overhype for, nor give my honest praise and approval to a musician who has been doing the same fucking thing for the better part of two decades.

Sirusjr

10-18-2011, 04:08 PM

I'm a huge Kajiura fan and I would say that for the most part her early catalog of works (including .hack//sign and Noir) are far too synth-heavy for me to enjoy. However she has slowly moved towards scores with less pounding synth beats and wrote some great music for the Tsubasa Chronicles, Elemental Gelade, and El Cazador de la Bruja. I wasn't a fan of her work on Kara no Kyoukai because it just took her typical style and made it into dark horror scores. Pandora Hearts has some solid music as well.

TheRancor

10-18-2011, 07:02 PM

Some gundam age music recording footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJsXlu6qiCk&feature=player_embedded).

tangotreats

10-18-2011, 08:00 PM

Wow, expensive! Not 50 people rammed into a room barely big enough for 20 with microphones stuffed up their noises, a-la-Sound Inn! Great footage, thank you! :)

My problems with Kajiura are many and varied. To start with, she is maybe the most over-hyped, over-rated composer in Japan, even moreso than Kenji Kawai and that's saying something. I have also been put off by her performance in interviews, in which she effectively states that she has unwavering confidence in her own genius, and doesn't respect *any* other musicians because they're nowhere near as good as she. I am a great believer in a composer (or any artist) allowing the quality of his/her work shine through, rather than feeling it necessary to constant trumpet about their own successes.

NOW, I know that the music should be judged according to its own merits and without regard to whatever personality flaws the composer may have. Bernard Herrmann was a miserable, arrogant bastard - but you could forgive him because he was such a terrific genius. He was right about his abilities, so even though he came across as stupendously full of himself, you had to admit that he had earned the right to be that way.

Let's just say that when I hear Kajiura's music, I hear absolute crap - which I despise; knowing Kajiura's blind faith in her own abilities (and massive disrespect for her contemporaries - most of whom can KNOCK THE ARSE off any of her scores in the sleep) is just the cherry on the icing.

Now, to give her her dues, as NaotaM says, for all her faults she writes HER OWN MUSIC and *always* sounds like herself. You never mix up a Kajiura score with a Kanno score or a Sahashi score or a Iwasaki score. Her voice is unique. She deserves some credit for that.

My relationship with Kanno is much, much more complicated. She is a shapeshifting chameleon. She's never written a bad piece, everything is carried off with such panache. The two are in a different league. Kanno steals like there is NO TOMORROW but steals tastefully and the *end result* is never anything but magnificent. Kajiura doesn't steal... but every note of her music bores me sick.

As a musician, I respect her. I don't respect her music. :D

NaotaM

10-19-2011, 12:24 AM

NOW, I know that the music should be judged according to its own merits and without regard to whatever personality flaws the composer may have. Bernard Herrmann was a miserable, arrogant bastard - but you could forgive him because he was such a terrific genius. He was right about his abilities, so even though he came across as stupendously full of himself, you had to admit that he had earned the right to be that way.

Let's just say that when I hear Kajiura's music, I hear absolute crap - which I despise; knowing Kajiura's blind faith in her own abilities (and massive disrespect for her contemporaries - most of whom can KNOCK THE ARSE off any of her scores in the sleep) is just the cherry on the icing.

I'd actually be quite interested in reading some of these interviews, if you don't mind. I hear ya on this particular nitpick when it comes to egotistical artists convinced of their own brilliance, but it tends to irritate me more when it comes from her fans. Kajiura fans will bellow from the highest rooftops about their gorgeous idol's perfect music and deflect complaints or critisicm with the ole ITS HER STYLLLLE canard, but the true twist of the knife comes from the knowledge that so often will people completely ignore the many, many artists who pants her in terms of talent, variety and creative voice.

It's a strain of myopia curiously endemic to anime fandom, I find. Like Hollywood scoring, the business of game and anime scores are incredibly small, insular industries, and as such, while there will be some mew names popping up here and there(Mina Kubota, whoever is scoring AGE), you tend to see the same collection of names doing just about everything, with the occasional artist who peaks early, fading into obscurity only to resurface eons later to snatch some small project out of supreme luck only to knock my fucking socks off(Yasuhisa "Yack" Watanabe and Soyo Oka come to mind). The difference with gaming is that the same handful of recognizable talents; your Shimomuras, your Sakimotos and Sakurabas and Uematsus and Mitsudas and Yamaokas; are all the same names everyone knows and loves and it's becoming increasingly common to see game sites make special mention of whoever a given titles' sound department picked up. Even the most random, unassuming of blog reviewers will often lavish praise on the latest given Shimomura or Basiscape score.

But for whatever reason, it's never the case with anime. There are all kind of reasons one could pinpoint and explore; largely the often vast gulf in time investment involved, allowing even the most comparitively trite melodies to germinate within the memory, or the influence nostalgia and growing up with particularly lauded games and scores can have on one's perception, expectations and willingness to pay attention to that sort of thing - I'm willing to bet more people grew up humming FFVI hunched in Indian position mere feet from the tv than bumping to the beats of Cowboy Bebop on their headphones. But the simple fact I've observed is that for the grand majority of anime fans, if a composer's surname doesn't begin with K, they didn't score Gurren Lagann or it isn't a Miyazaki film, no one seems to care save for the most obvious of music nerds, which is a terrible shame. You still see the same handful of names appearing on projects; Oshima, Sahashi, Otani, Kanno, Hisaishi, Kajiura, Wada, Iwasaki; but with bare exception only rarely will their work be noticed, let alone as a strong, positive quality of the production. I've never seen Hirano receive anything close to the recognition he won for Death Note for any score he's produced before or since, if it's even noted at all. And again, it's ONLY in anime. His contributions to FFXIII and Darkside Chronicles have won accolades among the educated and the common fan, but not so for the animated medium.

Only on the rarest of rare occasions will you see an anime score not put out by the K Brigade(could have reached for a very different joke here, but thought better of it :P)recognised or adored, and usually the music in question commands attention for how powerfully distinct it is(See FLCL or Utena. Kanno's catalog and Kajiura's first few years also count now that I think about it, but that's a discussion for another time), which is always something to be celebrated, but it still says some less-than-heartening things about anime music's appreciation in most circles, let alone whether some people even consider anime music worth consideration outside of their glorious sacred cows. I'm not sure what ominous questions it raises that (the original)Fullmetal Alchemist, Hatsune Miku and...blech...Makoto Yoshimori(putting his notes to my ears makes me want to cut myself like a teenage girl) were the last bulletpoints of musical import I've heard come out of the anime scene in quite some time, but they don't strike me as good.

Sirusjr

10-19-2011, 12:27 AM

Download ( http://www.multiupload.com/9OGTSR4DTR)
PSW: smile

Because EAC automatically grabbed the tags in Japanese, I left the track names in Japanese. Those interested in the English tracklist can check out Here (http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/=l3GSJNTPgSNG0xSgs/browse/item/60908/4/0/0) and look at the listing for this soundtrack.

NOTE: This was posted in this thread previously in MP3 format but I was recently requested to post it in lossless. If the links for mp3 are dead I can re-up later. This is a lot better than I remembered, I barely listened to it before.

tangotreats

10-19-2011, 06:01 AM

To this day, I see people who lavish praise upon Hirano for Death note; they have wonderful things to say about that great rockin' electric guitar score. They're not so fond of the "horrible, discordant screaming classical crap" but hey, that's only half the story! Somebody points out that the electric guitar stuff is by Hideki Taniuchi, and the stuff they hate is by Hirano...!

This rabid fanboy stuff is quite scary, isn't it? You don't like something their idol wrote, and they take it as a personal insult about their mother's job as a skanky prostitute. But I know I tend to do the same thing myself, almost automatically, when confronted with that sort of opinion. If somebody criticises Goldsmith, for example,
somehow it does feel like a personal slight - that person is not only suggesting that something I like is not very good... they are by definition insulting every moment of my life and every penny of hard earned cash I have spent in pursuit of my love of Goldsmith's music. They are not only saying they don't like the music - they are calling me an idiot because I do. An illogical reaction, but I have never professed to be logical. ;)

It's odd though that, as you say, it seems to be the three K's - Kanno, Kawai, and Kajiura; these are the composers who are beyond criticism...

About the "new names" phenomenom... I actually felt that things were slightly better in Japan than elsewhere... definitely, you see mostly the same names coming up on "prestige" productions - which isn't necessarily a bad thing since 99% of the time they do tend to represent the cream of the crop... but at the same time, you see other new names working their way up the ranks - starting off on cheap crappy shows with no budget, working up to arrangement positions, and eventually being let loose on their very own prestigious show.

But then you have your Mina Kubota (Amuri, Kaleido Star), Souhei Kano (Fractale), Yoshihisa Hirano (Beyblade), Conisch (Linebarrels of Iron), Kan Sawada (Moonlight Mile, Doraemon), Shiho Terada (Inazuma Eleven Go), Kei Yoshikawa (Gundam Age) all making stunning debuts in the last ten years... Half of them in the last five years, and two in 2011 alone.

You raise an interesting point about the strange sensation that, by and large, nobody cares about anime music unless it's composed by the aforementioned big K's... I'd agree, but oddly enough I actually find that quite heartening in itself. It can't have escaped canny Japanese producers that, for the most part, their target demographic aren't interested in the scores... and yet they still maintain standards. Twenty years ago, somebody could've said "You know what? Bugger this. Nobody listens to this crap. Just use library music or get some synth guy to do it." and by and large, it wouldn't have made much difference. The anime industry wouldn't have collapsed. They would still sell fifteen billion copies of everything and merchandise every show to breaking point and beyond... But they didn't. They keep on plugging away. They keep on hiring expensive orchestras, giving work to obscenely talented musicians both veteran and new.

So much good stuff passes by without much recognition... which IS a terrific shame... but isn't it nice to know that, even in this cut-throat money-driven industry, the people who make this stuff still want to do it well - they put in that extra effort to make something a bit special. 90% of the time nobody notices except the officionado, the educated, the nerd - but he is satisfied... and 10% of the time some particular combination of circumstances diverge - earth-shatteringly popular series, great score, great story, great animation... and it is noticed.

Japan is still a place where being good at what you do and working hard will get you places.

Duds (at least, duds in my eyes - Kawai, Kajiura, Otani, etc) I can forgive when they're not the only thing on offer. In Hollywood, you can chose between outright crap and almost imperceptibly less-crappy crap. In Japan, you have your cheap cheesy garbage, and you have your masterpieces. You have those scores that are infinitely better than the shows they accompany, and infinitely better than they needed to be.

Imagine Hirano sitting up late at night, plugging away orchestrating some terrifically complicated cue. I bet he knows 99% of the people watching that show won't care or even notice. Does that stop him? Nope. :)

arthierr

10-19-2011, 11:36 PM

Thanks for the new Sahashi! And very interesting reports on your trip, too!

I've read the whole thread (the 344 pages so far) in three days

REALLY!? In three days? I guess you must have skimmed through some parts, because I don't believe it's humanly possible to read such a large and complex thread in such a little amount of time. Welcome, though, and enjoy our "little" cosy place!

About Kajiura, I tend to see her as a sort of RCP composer of the east. They basically have several flaws in common: simple compositions; cliched and repetitive style; lots of electronics and modern percussions; etc. The funny thing is that I happened to enjoy some of her music precisely for this simplicity, since it can be used as some pleasant background music when you do something else. But when I tried to listen to it more attentively (like I do for most music), I just got bored real quick...

But then you have your Mina Kubota (Amuri, Kaleido Star), Souhei Kano (Fractale), Yoshihisa Hirano (Beyblade), Conisch (Linebarrels of Iron), Kan Sawada (Moonlight Mile, Doraemon), Shiho Terada (Inazuma Eleven Go), Kei Yoshikawa (Gundam Age) all making stunning debuts in the last ten years... Half of them in the last five years, and two in 2011 alone.

How interesting, I didn't know any of these, except those which were posted in this thread. If someone could repost the others here, or at least indicate where they can be found, it would be really nice!

It can't have escaped canny Japanese producers that, for the most part, their target demographic aren't interested in the scores... and yet they still maintain standards. Twenty years ago, somebody could've said "You know what? Bugger this. Nobody listens to this crap. Just use library music or get some synth guy to do it." and by and large, it wouldn't have made much difference. The anime industry wouldn't have collapsed. They would still sell fifteen billion copies of everything and merchandise every show to breaking point and beyond... But they didn't. They keep on plugging away. They keep on hiring expensive orchestras, giving work to obscenely talented musicians both veteran and new.

So much good stuff passes by without much recognition... which IS a terrific shame... but isn't it nice to know that, even in this cut-throat money-driven industry, the people who make this stuff still want to do it well - they put in that extra effort to make something a bit special. 90% of the time nobody notices except the officionado, the educated, the nerd - but he is satisfied... and 10% of the time some particular combination of circumstances diverge - earth-shatteringly popular series, great score, great story, great animation... and it is noticed.

Japan is still a place where being good at what you do and working hard will get you places.

Some gundam age music recording footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJsXlu6qiCk&feature=player_embedded).

Isn't it quite heartening to see this kind of beautiful, orchestrally pure, classically inspired music composed for a TV show?

Indeed, Japan hasn't forgotten what "class" and "elegance" mean (in music, at least). These people really do want some big, bold, yet refined and noble orchestral music for their shows, because they know it's the best way to effectively convey a sense of grandeur and distinction through music. No other kinds of musical ensemble are capable of reaching the same level of class and lushness a symphony orchestra can. To put it simply, orchestral music makes things look much bigger and better than they actually are, a bit like a tuxedo makes a hobo look rich and handsome.

George Lucas understood that too when he asked John Williams to score his Star Wars films in the late 19th century operatic style, with a traditional symphony orchestra (very slightly enhanced by electronics). Of course, he could have opted for a more modern, futuristic, electronically-oriented approach, since these movies are set in a sci-fi context. Other less astute or musically uncultivated directors would have made this kind of disastrous choice (Dino de Laurentis almost did that for Conan since he happened to believe that pop music would appeal more to the young audience of such films, and it's thanks to the persistence of John Milius, who wanted to impose a grand symphonic sound, that this movie was blessed with the phenomenal score we know so well). But Lucas had too much taste and intelligence to make this kind of crude mistake. He knew that only a big symphonic approach would really fit the larger-than-life proportions of his saga. Only it has enough of the elegance to fascinate, of the power to impress, and of the versatility to express the wide range of emotions and ideas a large scale epic story requires. Of course an orchestra alone is nothing, and an orchestra with a mediocre composer isn't much either. Lucas also had the luck to stumble across an exceptional composer, whose immense talent and superb mastery of orchestral music were amongst the highest of his generation. So they did their stuff this way, and we all know the result.

My point is, Japanese directors and producers are a bit like Lucas: they often happen to make the right choice because they know that "orchestra + good composer = guarantee of high musical quality". They know they won't really be able to get the same level of class and sumptuousness from other forms of music, so they accept to do the extra financial effort to get some talented composers and a real orchestra. They don't hesitate to spend a little more yens to have something that gives a much greater aura, a superior sense of prestige to their productions. This is something Hollywood executives have clearly forgotten.

Faleel

10-19-2011, 11:49 PM

They know....to get some talented composers and a real orchestra

And the orchestra doesnt need to be huge either, look at Alexander Courage, Fred Steiner, Gerald Fried etc. with Star Trek.

arthierr

10-20-2011, 12:01 AM

Having a large orchestra isn't necessary to achieve this sense of prestige, but it greatly helps. A large orchestra can really impress by its massive sound. Listen to some scores performed by the Warsaw: there's an incredibly grandeur in the sound that gives the listener a prickle on the back of the neck.

Sirusjr

10-20-2011, 09:15 PM

Tekken Blood Vengeance Original Soundtrack
Hitoshi Sakimoto and Basiscape - Originally posted by Qqqqqqwe
Synth orchestral/Piano/Synth action music

Download (http://www.multiupload.com/44CAARWKL0)

I wanted to share with everyone here the new Hitoshi Sakimoto soundtrack. It isn't anywhere near as good as Odin Sphere or some of his other works and has a lot of synth-driven music but it is still solid Sakimoto.

In the interest of not annoying Arthierr with a trimmed version, I suggest the removal of tracks 1-12, 15-20, 41 and 43 from your playlist either initially or after the first listen. This will leave you with the synth-orchestral stuff Sakimoto is known for and remove the beat-driven action music.

dekamaster2

10-21-2011, 09:20 AM

Thanks for the Tekken: Blood Vengeance OST!

Vinphonic

10-21-2011, 02:42 PM

Just found Tiger & Bunny on youtube.

Tiger & Bunny OST - HEROES N.C. 1978 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfc3_Pr03qQ)

I almost forgot how great the music was in the show. Yoshihiro Ike at his best ... and hopefully he will continue to score the music for the next season.
I can't wait for the ost (If it wasn't so expensive I would have bought it already).

jacksbrain

10-22-2011, 12:17 PM

So, right now I'm sure some of you (everybody!) would be listening to the new master's work: Tintin!
Awesome, right? after 3 years without new material! But not only that since in the same day we're gonna listen to War Horse also!!!
There's a premiere at WQXR 9PM EST (http://www.wqxr.org/#/programs/movies/2011/oct/22/) (there's already a 5 min preview with a lot of comments by the radio host). So don't miss it!

Doublehex

10-23-2011, 12:00 AM

Knut Avenstroup Haugen, of "Age of Conan" fame, was commissioned by the University of Oslo to do a piece. His was "Under Verden" (or Beneath the World). This link is to a live performance of it - the one that was done at the actual ceremony to commemorate the University's 200th year had choir that was three times as large.

Alas, I do not have it.

http://www.kulturentusiastene.no/lyd/Festivalgalla_2007/UnderVerden.mp3

Hella Oxide

10-23-2011, 03:10 AM

REALLY!? In three days? I guess you must have skimmed through some parts, because I don't believe it's humanly possible to read such a large and complex thread in such a little amount of time. Welcome, though, and enjoy our "little" cosy place!

Actualy I kindda read the whole thing *blushes*. I'm sort of a... err... fast reader and when something mesmerizes me, I have to get throught it as fast as possible to absorb as much as I can. My job and my carrer demands it, so I developed this "ability" to devour words. And yes, it's rather complex. I've selected some posts that I thought required further reading to fully aprehend them.

I was quite surprised when I found out the amazing Jeremy Robson posted here. My cousin and I loved the work he has done with de FF soundtracks -fan of the series, played all XIII and the Tactics- and it was wonderful news. I have learned a lot from music this past week thanks to the knowledge and passion you all display. Is enriching and humbling. So, maybe I don't cooperate with many OSTs or musical knowledge -I love music and despite the fact that I came from a family of sax players, I didn't got the opportunity to broaden that area of knowledge-, but for sure I'll try to keep learning from you all.

Thanks for the warm welcome =)

simonwu20923

10-23-2011, 07:59 AM

The Story of the Last Symphony - Senju Akira
Orchestral|Piano Concerto
http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/images/cd/small/Suna_no_Utsuwa_UPCH1338.gif

(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/cover1np.jpg/)
Download ( http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YHDFKM7H)

Senju Akira said in an interview that this is his life work. When he composed the first 2 tract, the piano concerto "Fate", he has to consider the original composer Mitsuaki Kanno's feeling and intention and to rejuvenate the piece into modern era. In order to that do he sought help from pianist Kentaro Haneda, and revision after revision, only after Haneda felt the tone was set in accordance to the original piece that he was confidence in completing the soundtrack. Senju said that since the piece was originally composed in an era when film, picture, and music just started to come together in harmony, the piece was intended to be "wordless, just presenting the picture and music itself". Anyway, this is an extraordinary soundtrack that you shouldn't miss. Hope you guys enjoyed it.

If someone already uploaded this before, I apologize ahead and please let me know so I can take this down.

ps. Can someone re-upload Symphony Of Psalms - The Tale Of Genji composed by Senju Akira???? Much appreciated.

arthierr

10-23-2011, 07:39 PM

Actualy I kindda read the whole thing *blushes*. I'm sort of a... err... fast reader and when something mesmerizes me, I have to get throught it as fast as possible to absorb as much as I can. My job and my carrer demands it, so I developed this "ability" to devour words. And yes, it's rather complex. I've selected some posts that I thought required further reading to fully aprehend them.

I was quite surprised when I found out the amazing Jeremy Robson posted here. My cousin and I loved the work he has done with de FF soundtracks -fan of the series, played all XIII and the Tactics- and it was wonderful news. I have learned a lot from music this past week thanks to the knowledge and passion you all display. Is enriching and humbling. So, maybe I don't cooperate with many OSTs or musical knowledge -I love music and despite the fact that I came from a family of sax players, I didn't got the opportunity to broaden that area of knowledge-, but for sure I'll try to keep learning from you all.

Thanks for the warm welcome =)

Oh, I also know this effect. At times some books are so captivating or meaningful to you that you simply can't leave them alone until you have finished them. I guess this thread similarly displays a sense of enthusiasm that makes some people devour it as fast as they can!

But what I meant was that it's not possible to *attentively* read such a thread in such a little amount of time, IE to fully savour and understand each part, to have a personal reflection on it, then to move on to another part. Reading too fast can sometimes spoil a great experience. I happened to do this at times (400 pages essays or handbooks in 2 days anyone?), but the result was that I nearly forgot 1/3 of the stuff, and had to read again several parts (notably the most complex ones) since I didn't grant each the full attention it required.

I see fast reading like visiting a country by running: you happen to see some stuff indeed, but all you get are vague, superficial impressions that are likely to be easily forgotten. Attentive reading is like exploring a country and taking the time to thoroughly visit notable places, discuss with the inhabitants, eat at local restaurants, experiment local customs and fairs, etc. (I know someone who knows a little about this ;): you ultimately gain much more advantage from it.

So, right now I'm sure some of you (everybody!) would be listening to the new master's work: Tintin!
Awesome, right? after 3 years without new material!

Yeah, funny that there aren't more reactions to Tintin in this thread, since it's quite an event in the score community, and notably the orchestral one. I would really appreciate some opinions, since I haven't listened to it for the moment (will do ASAP). I don't ask for full reviews or thorough essays on it, of course, but rather some impressions on whether you find it fairly good, VERY good or ***INCREDIBLY GOOD***, and why. Personally, I'll post some of my impressions here after listening, but I'm fully aware that I don't have the full expertise to properly judge a Williams score, so I'll just post some rough and humble impressions about how it sounds to *me*.

And.... SACRED SEVEN! Which I now have in my greasy little paws...

...Which means, so do you.

Download TS_SS.zip from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/XU2TDZZ5/TS_SS.zip_links)

Not Sahashi's best ever, but still a very solid score and a great listen.

This is a really nifty score (as usual, once you get rid of the non orchestral stuff and transform it into a sort of symphonic suite). It displays the usual ultra precise, concise, almost mathematical writing of Sahashi, and I enjoy it a lot, thank you!

But I'd like to point out that there's a glitch at the beginning ot track 31 (and it's my favorite one!), so please could you reup this track?

The Story of the Last Symphony - Senju Akira
Orchestral|Piano Concerto

Great! There are quite some fans of Senju here, so it's quite an appreciable post. And I don't remember it to have been posted before.

ps. Can someone re-upload Symphony Of Psalms - The Tale Of Genji composed by Senju Akira???? Much appreciated.
I'll see if I have it somewhere, if so, I'll repost soon.

Tekken Blood Vengeance Original Soundtrack
Hitoshi Sakimoto and Basiscape - Originally posted by Qqqqqqwe
Synth orchestral/Piano/Synth action music

Since it's Sakimoto, I'll sure give it a shot, because there could be some good material. Thanks!

tangotreats

10-24-2011, 01:29 AM

Good evenin' folks... :)

Pleased to say I'm back in England after a spectacularly boring flight... and one which lasted 90 minutes longer than advertised due to "runway congestion" - so we spent over an hour flying round in circles over Heathrow, apparently waiting for some ancient wheezing Russian plane to get out of the way!

Unfortunately, I have no further music; I never found the time to get back to the record stores, sadly - and I was thoroughly shocked and dismayed to find that two of the largest in Tokyo (HMV Shibuya and Shinjuku) went under last year. Tower Records remain for the time being but it was eerily quiet when I went there; dozens of staff wandering around doing nothing and perhaps twenty-odd customers pottering around listening to stuff but not buying it. I guess the rot is setting in there too - just a bit later than it did in the West. A massive shame. All the second hand shops are still there, thankfully, as they're a bit more specialist - but sadly I managed to get sick in the middle of the week so missed out... but fear not, I'll be going back next year...!

Arthierr: Glad you're enjoying Sacred Seven! I've listened to track 31 of my rip and I cannot hear any glitch - what precisely is it? Could it be a problem on the original CD? Or is it the slight flub during the opening violin tremolo? My laptop is usually very good at ripping (I used EAC in Secure Mode as well) and I haven't had any trouble before... Either way, I am going to re-rip here at home and upload again - this time with sensible tags and some cover art if I can get Ye Olde Scanner working again...! :)

If anybody's interested I have further stories of my fun trip to come? :)

Doublehex

10-24-2011, 04:37 AM

If anybody's interested I have further stories of my fun trip to come? :)

Does it involve a drunk Brit trying to weasel his way out of the grasp of Japanese policemen? If so...

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr176/AllieRX87/OfCOURSE.gif

OF COURSE!

Doublehex

10-24-2011, 02:18 PM

So, I haven't made a serious contribution to this thread in a bit now. Well, I have a release that I know that Arthierr will get a kick out of.

HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC VI
Rob King & Paul Romero, Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan, Jason Graves, Tom Salta, and Sean Lorish with Eric Chevalier

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SXINMRD1

1. Tom Salta - The Last Stand of Duke Pavel Griffin (1:24)
2. Rob King & Paul Romero - Main Theme ''Tears and Blood'' (3:24)
3. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Dynasty (3:38)
4. Rob King & Paul Romero - Campaign Selection 1 (1:53)
5. Rob King & Paul Romero - Campaign Selection 2 (1:06)
6. Rob King & Paul Romero - Campaign Selection 3 (1:06)
7. Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan - Multiplayer Menu (2:05)
8. Jason Graves - The Land of the Griffin (Haven) (3:12)
9. Rob King & Paul Romero - Falcon's Reach (1:23)
10. Rob King & Paul Romero - Slava, the Duke of Griffin (2:17)
11. Rob King & Paul Romero - Passing Through the Underworld (2:56)
12. Rob King & Paul Romero - Slava's Reign (Fall Terrain) (3:11)
13. Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan - Conspiracies of the Enemy (2:28)
14. Jason Graves - Siege of the Castle (3:01)
15. Rob King & Paul Romero - Anton, the Heir to the Griffin (2:07)
16. Rob King & Paul Romero - Anton's Tribulations (Summer Terrain) (3:01)
17. Rob King & Paul Romero - Through the Swamp (Swamp Terrain) (2:12)
18. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Ways of the Water Dragon (Sanctuary) (1:12)
19. Rob King & Paul Romero - The City of Nariya (3:07)
20. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Jade Sea (Water Terrain) (3:14)
21. Rob King & Paul Romero - Irina, Lady of the Dragon (2:02)
22. Jason Graves - The Riverland (Naga Jungle Terrain) (3:00)
23. Rob King & Paul Romero - Sanctuary of Water (3:15)
24. Rob King & Paul Romero - Bastion of the Sea (Water Plains Terrain 1) (2:52)
25. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Enemy Moves Ahead (2:09)
26. Sean Lorish & Eric Chevalier - The Attack on the Land (3:07)
27. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Orcs (Stronhold) (1:47)
28. Rob King & Paul Romero - Taumata-Kunyak, the Fortress City (3:02)
29. Jason Graves - The Jungles of the Pao Islands (Orc Jungle Terrain) (3:05)
30. Rob King & Paul Romero - Twisting Rivers (Water Plains Terrain 2) (2:51)
31. Rob King & Paul Romero - Sandor the Bastard (1:55)
32. Jason Graves - Charge of the Orcs (3:00)
33. Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan - The Demons of Sheogh (Inferno) (0:59)
34. Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan - The Prison City of Ur-Hekal (3:07)
35. Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan - The Prison Realm (Lava Terrain) (3:19)
36. Rob King & Paul Romero - Kiril the Tortured (2:12)
37. Jasn Graves - Michael the Archangel (3:06)
38. Cris Velasco & Sascha Dikiciyan - Rising Conflict (2:40)
39. Jason Graves - Demons Reckoning (3:02)
40. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Wasteland (3:12)
41. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Undead (Necropolis) (1:07)
42. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Silver Cities (3:03)
43. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Murderer Anastasya (2:07)
44. Rob King & Paul Romero - Sveltana, the Sister of Pavel (2:08)
45. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Dead Strike (3:27)
46. Jason Graves - The Dragon Knight (3:12)
47. Rob King & Paul Romero - A Conflict of Destinies (2:49)
48. Jason Graves - The Second Eclipse (3:18)
49. Sean Lorish & Eric Chevalier - Heroic Battle (2:55)
50. Sean Lorish & Eric Chevalier - Fateful Battle (2:54)
51. Sean Lorish & Eric Chevalier - Epic Battle (3:04)
52. Rob King & Paul Romero - Cutscene Mood A (1:38)
53. Rob King & Paul Romero - Cutscene Mood B (1:22)
54. Rob King & Paul Romero - Cutscene Mood C (1:17)
55. Rob King & Paul Romero - Cutscene Mood D (1:46)
56. Rob King & Paul Romero - Cutscene Mood E (0:58)
57. Rob King & Paul Romero - Credits (6:03)
58. Rob King & Paul Romero - Slava's Reign (Alternate) (3:11)
59. Rob King & Paul Romero - Anton's Tribulations (Alternate) (3:01)
60. Rob King & Paul Romero - Through the Swamp (Alternate) (2:13)
61. Rob King & Paul Romero - Passing Through the Underworld (Alternate) (2:58)
62. Rob King & Paul Romero - The Wasteland (Alternate) (1:26)

Personally, although I do enjoy the score and think it is a good one, I do not feel that it reaches the caliber of the previous entry in the series and I think I know where the problem lies. Too. Many. Composers! Collaborations are great, and I think several artistic minds working together can bring out wonderful results in any medium. However, HoMM6 had not two, not three, not even four, but EIGHT composers working on this project. That is not a collaboration -this was a huge mess of musical ideas. Now granted the music presented by each composer is good - I do not think there is a single bad theme in the entire score. But they lack cohesion with each other and they don't meld well with one and another.

And besides, there isn't as many chorus tracks in here! I know that is just being picky and somewhat superficial, since a score does not need chorus to be good by any definitions...but the chorus in HoMM5 were so damn good I was hoping to see more of that caliber here.

But that's beside the point. The music here is good, and there is a good chance that you will enjoy it. This was a good addition to the HoMM musical library. I just hope for the inevitable expansions that Ubi will hire a much smaller team (or just King and Romero) for a much tighter and fluid experience.

arthierr

10-24-2011, 04:32 PM

Thanks for this one, big fan of the series indeed! I've got a little off topic post about it coming later...

Tango: I downloaded with 3 different hosts, and the same glitch (click) occurs near the beginning of track 31. Good news that you'll reup! And what country will it be for your next trip?

And I almost missed this: (I rarely visit other parts of this forum, so please let me know if there are some cool stuff out there)

The Legend of Zelda
25th Anniversary
Symphony recordings
Thread 97294

I went to the concert Friday night, and decided to record it with my iPhone via the voice memo app. I wasn't expecting good quality, but it didn't come out too bad (aside from a person coughing everying five minutes... darn him!). I broke it down into tracks and uploaded two versions; one with the introductions and one without. I also uploaded a high quality scan of the program.

Track List (without introductions):

1. Hyrule Castle Theme - 2:15
2. Princess Zelda's Theme - 2:35
3. The Wind Waker Symphonic Movement - 10:40
4. Ocarina Melody Suite - 9:10
5. Boss Battle Medley - 6:25
6. Kakariko Village - 2:55
7. The Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Medley - 8:15
8. Ganondorf's Theme - 4:40
9. The Legend of Zelda - Selected Shorts Suite - 3:55
10. Gerudo Valley - 3:45
11. Hyrule Field from Ocarina of Time - 2:40
12. Great Fairy's Fountain Theme - 2:58
13. Twilight Princess Symphonic Movement - 10:43
14. The Legend of Zelda Main Theme Medley - 4:35
15. Grandma's Theme from The Wind Waker (Performed by Koji Kondo) - 3:00
16. Skyward Sword Main Theme - 2:20

Total Time: 1:20:52

Sirusjr

10-24-2011, 05:54 PM

Yo Tsuji - Bibliotheca Mystica de Dantalian Original Soundtrack Suite
Solo Strings/Piano|Small Ensemble|Melodic

See links in original thread (Thread 97291)

This is a beautiful relaxing score with some nice themes - including weaving in the OP single theme.

Yoshihiro Ike - Tiger & Bunny Original Soundtrack - 2CDs
Orchestral|Action|Adventure

Download links in original thread (Thread 97251)

Having listened to some of this score, I wanted to give you an idea of what to expect. First off, anyone familiar with Yoshihiro Ike would not be quick to believe that he did a 100% orchestral score and you certainly do not get that here. So far, there are some of what might be called at best small ensemble orchestral works, some big band jazzy orchestral stuff in the style of James Bond, some solo instruments and a bit of acoustic guitar. I find it interesting that the main theme that is present in the beginning of the first track shows up in various forms throughout.

It should be noted that - for those who are not familiar with the anime - this is essentially a big action/adventure superhero anime.

yepsa

10-24-2011, 08:28 PM

I had a chance to see a new Chinese film the other day entitled "Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame."

Here's a review: Film Review: Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame (http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/content_display/reviews/specialty-releases/e3i1147b76fc5713b700ec0cff873b11c67)

I mention it here because it also has a fine, action-loaded symphonic score by Peter Kam, whose music is hard to locate. See the movie if you can, and maybe someone can share the score?

arthierr

10-24-2011, 09:26 PM

If anybody's interested I have further stories of my fun trip to come? :)

Of course! You already know I'm personally fascinated by Japan, for many reasons. Please give us more fun facts or interesting aspects about your trip.

Sirusjr: thanks for these! I'm especially curious about Tiger & Bunny, of which I knew nothing before some posters started talking about it in this thread.

Also, about Heroes 6, perhaps some of you here are interested in character design and graphic stuff, so here's something you might like. I found some time ago these really great artworks, and I quite recommend to have a look, since the guy who did them has a lot of talent.

Heroes 6 - Artworks

Heroes Community - ~ Heroes 6 Artwork thread - please read rules ~ (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=33562)
concept art by perzo on deviantART (http://perzo.deviantart.com/gallery/25146225)

Samples:

Sirusjr

10-25-2011, 01:04 AM

Anne Dudley - Hollow Reed
Solo Strings/Piano|Small Ensemble|Melodic

See links in original thread (Thread 97226)

William Bolcom & Arnold Black - Illuminata
Baroque style|Small Ensemble|Melodic

See links in original thread (Thread 97220)

Joby Talbot - Arctic Tale
Orchestral|Sweeping|Playful

See links in original thread (Thread 97229)

evilwurst

10-25-2011, 04:06 AM

Sacred Seven track 31? I had to turn it up a bit, but there's a click at about 11 seconds in. It's pretty faint though. Arthierr has really good ears.

Doublehex

10-25-2011, 04:16 AM

Or wicked awesome earbuds.

arthierr

10-25-2011, 09:33 PM

Actually, one of my (average) speakers has had a failure some months ago, and I haven't bought some new yet, so my sound is in mono! Despite this, I noticed the click very easily since it begins exactly with the melody.

Thanks for the recommendations, Sirusjr!

yepsa

10-25-2011, 10:00 PM

RE: The Story of the Last Symphony - Senju Akira (Post #8605)
All I get when I download the link is a Unix file titled "&". What does one do with that?
Thanks!

arthierr

10-25-2011, 10:06 PM

?

It was ok for me: 86.1 MB file called 千住明.-.[砂の器].专辑.(mp3).rar. Perhaps it's the japanese fonts?

Doublehex

10-26-2011, 12:22 AM

Billie781

10-26-2011, 02:59 PM

2831
Fifth Symphonic Game Music Concert (Leipzig)

1. Official Opening Fanfare - GC in Concert 2007
2. Commodore 64-Medley (e. g. Last Ninja, Great Giana Sisters, Forbidden Forest, Wizball etc.)
3. Stranglehold (featuring Conny Kollet)
4. New スーパーマリオブラザーズ. (アレンジ: 古代祐三)
5. The Abbey (featuring Daniela Kosinova)
6. ラグナロクオンライン2: The Gate of the World (featuring Josef Krusek)
7. Rayman Raving Rabbids
8. StarCraft
9. Turrican II: The Final Fight (featuring Marek Zvolanek)
10. シェンムー / World Club Champion Football (ピアノ演奏: 光吉猛修)
11. WCCF: World Club Champion Football: Intercontinental Clubs 2006-2007
12. サガフロンティア II (featuring Jaromir Klepac)
13. 武蔵伝II: ブレイドマスター (featuring Jaromir Klepac)
14. Commodore Amiga-Medley (e. g. Alienbreed, Lionheart, Pinball Fantasies, Lemmings etc.)
15. The Sims 2
16. ファイナルファンタジー XI (歌唱: 増田いずみ『プロマシアの呪縛』より「Distant Worlds」)
17. 聖剣伝説２
18. Settlers II - The Next Generation (オーケストラ編曲: 浜口史郎)
19. Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle
20. 悪魔城ドラキュラ (パイプオルガン演奏: 山根ミチル)
21. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (featuring Rony Barrak)

I think my post is a bit different to the normal track list, I'm sorry for this. Enjoy the music :3

Fifth Symphonic Game Music Concert (Leipzig) (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K91J6ZU2)

Sirusjr

10-26-2011, 04:49 PM

Omg billie is back -hugs-
I thought I'd never see you posting again. Welcome back :)

Billie781

10-26-2011, 05:17 PM

heiya Sirus -hugs back- I'm glad I'm back :D and thank you~ :3

arthierr

10-26-2011, 10:16 PM

WOW! Our good old friend Billie is back, ladies and gentlemen!

That was a LONG time we haven't heard from you, and it's a pleasure to see you again. Welcome back, and I can see you have also brought a "little" present for us! Great stuff indeed, thank you!

Sirusjr

10-27-2011, 04:13 AM

Takefumi Haketa - Presents 3 - A collection of pieces from various soundtracks
MP3 VBR V-0 - Converted from Lossless
Orchestral|Relaxing|Piano

Download ( http://www.multiupload.com/YNDSUWAH40)
PSW: smile

WildwoodPark

10-27-2011, 09:00 PM

You guys keep busy on this thread.

Doublehex

10-28-2011, 04:26 AM

[CENTER]Heroes 6 - Artworks

Well, while we are on that topic, here's the .pdf of the artbook! MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O4SA7WI7)

Spending an extra $4 on the deluxe edition seemed worth it, but I was ultimately dissapointed. Not so much by the music and the art itself, but by the presentation. Color me spoiled by Blizzard's art books, but this seemed like such a lackluster job. Alot of the art has been modified, and it's all lore and no behind the scenes stuff. And it's so short too! The art is good, but there's not enough of it.

arthierr

10-29-2011, 01:48 AM

Hey guys, just dropping by with a few more interesting articles you might like. There have been a lot of debates here about the quality, memorability and recycling of modern film music, and what I have here are a few bits about what directors in Hollywood are saying about their music, as well as independent directors. So:

What directors want from composers: Hollywood and indie

What Directors Want From Their Composers: The Hollywood Directors | deaneogden.com � composer and creative firestarter (http://www.deaneogden.com/2011/09/07/what-directors-want/)
What Directors Want From Their Composers: The Indie Directors | deaneogden.com � composer and creative firestarter (http://www.deaneogden.com/2011/09/14/what-directors-want-indie/)

What qualified a director to take part in each part is listed at the start of each entry, but to class as a "Hollywood director" for this excercise they had to have had 3 films in wide release since 1996, currently have a green-lit production in progress at a major Hollywood studio, and to have worked with at least 3 different composers. To count as indie, they had to have 2 fully complete independent films, under a budget of 5 million, using "unknown" composers.

Compare the answers to questions 2, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10 particularly.

Interestingly, far more of the Hollywood directors said it was important for music to be memorable, while indie directors held the opinion that music was purely functional and should not have much importance. Likewise, with samples vs. live players, far, far more of the Hollywood directors supported live musicians, while the indie directors held a more diverse range of opinions, the largest group didn't give a toss. Hollywood directors also had a dislike of composers who procrastinated, rather than indies who disliked composers that debated their vision.

If I'm honest, I haven't heard much great music come out of indie films. And we can see that a good attitude to excellent, memorable and artistic music still exists among some mainstream Hollywood directors, at least. But for some ungodly reason, we're still being bombarded with crap...

I know this has been posted a few weeks ago, but I had time to give it some full attention only recently. This was a very interesting and pertinent read. Thank you for having brought it here, since its subject is quite relevant to this thread, and allows me to make an extensive comment on a point that particularly stroke me.

There's material for a lot of debate and analysis in this study, but for now, I'd like to focus on one quite meaningful point: the question about whether a score should be “memorable” or “transparent”. Given the general orientation of this thread, it won't surprise anybody if I say that “memorable” is the most obvious choice to me, and I guess to most people frequenting this thread. Yet some of the results to this question were actually quite surprising! Notably when some indie directors answered things like this: “You really shouldn’t notice the music at all”; “The best scores are not heard”; or the fact that 87 percent of them chose “transparent” over “memorable”. That's quite a large proportion, as a matter of fact, and this can be seen as a serious concern for film score fans.

So let's have a little reflection on this topic, and before going further, let's begin by trying to define what exactly “transparent” mean, in general and in this particular context. “transparent” generally means three different things: 1) physically, it refers to something fine or sheer enough to be seen through; 2) intellectually, it means something readily understood; 3) morally, it means something free from pretense or deceit, or refers to someone who doesn't intentionally hide something. (Definitions are partly based on merriam-webster)

How does this translate to the context of film music? According to the previous definitions, a “transparent” film score could be interpreted as a score that is 1) sober, bland, dull enough to be almost imperceptible to the audience; 2) simple, straightforward, easy to understand, free of complicated nuances or subtleties that would only be accessible to the trained ear, the musician, the meloman or the score fan. Furthermore, as the study suggests, the opposite of “transparent”, in this context, would be “memorable”, that is, a score that is so bold, so remarkable, that it grabs the audience's attention and becomes engraved in its memory, whether because it's very beautiful, or loud, or provocative, or whatever.

At first glance, to state that a score should be “transparent” seems to be a rather fair and sensible idea. Indeed, a director's primary function is to make a film, namely the process going from "an initial story, idea, or commission, through scriptwriting, casting, shooting, directing, editing, and screening the finished product before an audience that may result in a theatrical release" (Wikipedia). Music is only one element of this big ensemble (and some might say a minor one), so some might consider that it shouldn't be too prominent or invasive, because otherwise it could overshadow the other elements of the movie, making them less easy to perceive by distracting the audience's attention too much. That's why music should apparently be dull and simple, so other aspects of the movie, such as the acting, the photography, the special effects, etc. can shine fully and distinctly.

That's what a (rather coarse) director seemed to mean when he said this in the study: “Some composers don’t know how to pick their mixing battles and you just want to tell them to shut the fuck up. You know there are going to be places later where the music really needs to take center stage, but they want everything cranked at every turn. You need them vying for those weak spots, not the spots when the helicopters are whirling and the bombs are going off and the robots are transforming. Nobody is going to hear any music with all that shit happening anyway.”

This is an interesting point of view, but it raises (at least) two problems, or interrogations. The first concerns the quality of the music thus generated: if the music has to be dull and simple, is it actually possible to call it "good" music? I mean, in itself, per se, leaving aside the film for a moment, can we intrinsically judge such music as "good" or even "great" strictly from a musical perspective? Can such music be artistically praiseworthy? The answer to these questions is most likely: no. There's little doubt that this kind of washed-out, insipid, purely functional music can be appreciable in itself (unless of course having funny musical tastes), and it certainly can't be praised as an accomplished piece of art, even if it is perfectly effective in the context of the film.

The other problem is about the pertinence of having music in film: if the music has to be nearly imperceptible, does it really makes sense to have some music at all? Some of the directors said: “You really shouldn’t notice the music at all” and “The best scores are not heard”, then why do they even bother having some music in their movies? If they were logical and coherent with their own statements, they would just get rid of it, and this would be quite a lightening for them in terms of money, time and energy spent. What's the point of going into the heavy process of film scoring if you ultimately don't want people to hear or notice the result? That would be like spending hours cooking a complicated and expensive dish with the hope that people will quickly swallow it without noticing its taste.

Unless, what they meant was that the score must not be consciously perceveid, but instead, subconsciously perceveid. Which means it has to arouse various emotional states in the background of your head, and subtlely influence your moods while you're not even aware of it, since your attention is fully focused on what is on screen. Music would be then a sort of subliminal enhancement to the film, subtlely manupulating people's mind without being intrusive. Again, this is an interesting idea, but even then, it doesn't solve the musical enjoyability / artistic quality problem of such music.

I believe the origin of such position about the very minor role of film music, for indie directors, is the fact that they almost exclusively make small budget films that mostly focus on little, common, everyday human issues: love, friendship, job, deviance, etc. The types of things that happen to the Average Joe or the Ordinary Jane, living in trite and realistic conditions. This kind of movie doesn't need an extravagant, larger-than-life epic orchestral score, which would be totally excessive and inappropriate; on the contrary, it requires a light, subdued approach that subtlely accompanies the "ordinary" setting and story of the film.

But when we talk about large scale, epic movies (historical, adventure, fantasy, sci-fi, etc.), things are quite different, and even opposite, music-wise. To put it simply, big movies need big scores. Big movies often reach a nearly mythological level, whether by their setting, story, and / or themes, motifs, and symbols they convey; they feature common or uncommon heroes facing extraordinary, tremendous threats and opponents. So, in order to express this grandeur, the music has to be of the same caliber, therefore it must not hide or go low profile; quite the contrary, it must be there to be heard; it must shine, be showy, flamboyant, extravagant, bombastic, prestigious (as I said in one of my recent posts, see above), and consequently, “memorable”. And as a matter of fact, only the naturally massive and elegant sound of a real symphony orchestra can effectively and accurately convey such lofty qualities.

But stating that big movies need big scores isn't enough. They also need "great" scores. And "big" isn't synonymous of "great". A "great" score is a score that is artistically admirable, because of its impressive technical complexity and its sheer, inspired beauty. Many grand orchestral scores of the past were both "big" and "great", in this regard. But today's big Hollywood movies do have "big" scores indeed, no one can deny that, but do they have "great" scores? Not really, from my point of view, and this is where the biggest problem of modern film music lies! As it's been said many times in this thread, today's big Hollywood scores are much simpler and often dumber than before; they're mostly functional, generic, dull... Hey, reminds you of something? Yes, they're almost exactly like what indie directors want, as we saw at the beginning. So, it seems today's Hollywood executives have the same mentality as indie directors, and like them, they seek the same kind of “transparent” scores, even for big, huge blockbusters. Let's precise that this position doesn't seem to be the one of Hollywood directors, as the study shows that a large majority of them (87%) chooses “memorable” over “transparent”. One of them even stated: “When I was a little girl going to movies all I noticed was the music. They say in film school that it’s not a good score if you hear it, and yet, I hate when I don’t notice”, which incidentally shows how much absurd things you can learn in film schools at times.

So the question is why do today's Hollywood executives want that much film music (of big movies) to be simple, functional and “transparent”, instead of great, gorgeous and “memorable”? They have the choice between "dull" and "great", and they choose "dull", even though a) talented and competent composers are right there, ready to write superlative symphonic scores, and b) the cost of such great scores is mostly the same as mediocre ones. It's like a guy who has the choice with his steack, for the same price, between some greasy, cold french fries and an extravagant salad made of various fresh and tasty ingredients, and he chooses the french fries. Why this culture of mediocrity, this philosophy of dullness? I don't really know. Perhaps it's simple commercialism; perhaps some studies have shown that their target demographic prefer this kind of music; perhaps they're just artistically barren and inept. But what I can say is that it has been proven many, many times in the history of cinema that great, “memorable” scores can a) very effectively accompany and enhance a film, and b) can contribute to its success and popularity. Let's take one very obvious example: Star Wars (I know I use this example a lot, but it's not because I've got only it, but because it's extremely evocative). These movies have some truly great scores, that outright exemplify the term “memorable”. Did that make them unsuccesful? Quite the contrary. Did that distract the audience so it wasn't able to focus on the film? Never heard of such thing, and it's even thanks to the greatness of the music that most scenes gained a considerable amount of power, beauty and majesty.

So you see, a great score can actually bring a lot to a movie, including helping it having more success, IE selling better. If Hollywood executives are afraid of selling their products (films) less because their score is great, they have numerous facts and evidence proving the opposite. So please go for it and let the (good) composers do what they are born to do! Because we melomans and score lovers want some new great classic scores to enjoy!

As usual, comments, questions, and even (polite and constructive) criticisms are very welcome. Kudos to Deane Ogden for this excellent initiative.

ShadowSong

10-29-2011, 06:23 PM

Tan Dun
The Banquet

Multiupload Link (http://www.multiupload.com/UOPQTEK2W7)

Sample Track - In The Bamboo Forest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLHx7Ud5JVw)

Tan Dun's 2006 score for The Banquet is easily one of his most accessible. His concert works can be quite modern and weighty, but I believe most people can find something to enjoy about this score. I just ignore the vocal theme, but I usually do that with vocal themes in scores. I suggest listening to Lost Days (track 8). It is beautiful, yet restrained just enough that it isn't melodramatic. There is a fair amount well written eastern drumming and choir as well. And I mean REAL eastern drumming, not that hollywood ethnic/taiko/electronic drum crap.

hatti75

10-30-2011, 12:19 PM

Hi! I looking for this:
Please, anybody, help for me! Thanks!

The Fall Of The Roman Empire
2 CD Set XPCD170

PROMETHEUS RECORDS
Presents

The World Premiere Recording of the Complete Score to
THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE
Composed by
DIMTRI TIOMKIN

A Special 2CD Edition featuring One of the finest film score from DIMITRI TIOMKIN:
Composer of THE ALAMO, THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY, LOST HORIZON, GIANT, THE GUNS OF NAVARONE, HIGH NOON, 55 DAYS AT PEKING and DUEL IN THE SUN

� 2 CD Set with full Colour Booklet
� Special Collector’s Edition
� Featuring for the First Time the COMPLETE Film Score
� 140 Minutes of Music
� Includes Previously Unreleased Music
� Newly Recorded in Stunning and Dynamic Digital Sound
� Performed by the Acclaimed and Award-Winning 130-piece City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra Conducted by Nic Raine
� Produced by James Fitzpatrick
� Recorded from the Original 1964 Scores and Orchestral Parts, Restored by Pat Russ
� Informative and Expert Sleeve Notes by Frank K. DeWald with introduction by Olivia Tiomkin Douglas
� A TADLOW MUSIC Production for PROMETHEUS RECORDS

“It is a brilliant performance by the talented musicians of the City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra under the energetic leadership of Nic Raine …. musicians who understand the complexity of Dimitri’s difficult music and who always rise to the challenge. Dimitri no doubt would have been delighted” (Olivia Tiomkin Douglas – July 2011)

CD 1

1. Fanfares (0:54)
2. Prelude (2:41)
3. Aurelius Awaits the Dawn (2:20)
4. The Arrival of Livius / Lucilla and Livius (5:54)
5. Pax Romana (5:01)
6. Cleander Listens / Caesar’s Decision (2:03)
7. Livius Leaves the Fort / Caesar and Lucilla (3:19)
8. The Dawn of Love / Drinking Companions (5:15)
9. Barbarian Women / Lovers Reunited (5:58)
10. Preparation for Battle / The Signal to March (2:37)
11. The Mysterious Forest (3:21)
12. Barbarian Ambush (3:49)
13. Lucilla’s Sacrifice (3:11)
14. The Execution / The Conspiracy (4:17)
15. Apple of Death / Lucilla’s Sorrow (5:48)
16. Profundo (2:31)
17. The Undoubted Caesar (3:16)
18. The Roman Forum / Coronation / Triumph and End of Act 1 (5:33)

tt: 67:54

CD 2

Intermission: The Fall of Love (3:13)
Notturno (3:32)
Death March / Balomar’s Barbarian Attack (4:38)
Lucilla Visits Commodus / The Gates of Rome (4:24)
Addio (2:33)
Livius’ Success / The Last Goodbye (1:14)
Exile / Morning / The Prophecy (4:16)
The Court Musicians (2:28)
Meeting in the East / Disillusionment / Armenian Treachery (5:46)
Persian Battle / Return to Home (7:09)
Timonides’ Triumph / Barbarian Celebration / Massacre (2:56)
Resurrection (3:02)
The God’s Laugh (2:42)
Death of Polybius (2:33)
Roman Celebration / Tarantella (4:42)
Commodus Kills His Father (3:01)
Commodus Deified (3:46)
The Fall of Rome (5:08)
Epilogue (Prelude – Concert Suite Version) (3:15)

Tt: 70:23

Catalogue Number: XPCD 170
Release Date: OCTOBER 18th 2011

arthierr

10-30-2011, 03:07 PM

Seems another long lost poster is back, folks, HURRAY! Welcome back, Shadow. And thanks for this. :)

I didn't know The Banquet, in fact, the music nor the film (which looks quite appealing from the cover). There could be some great material here, since big asian dramas (as it seems to be one) sometimes lead to very beautiful and lyrical scores. I'm usually less fan of the asian drums stuff, but I greatly enjoy the melodic parts, which can be gorgeous. I notably remember both Red Cliff movies in this regard, which had quite good, solid scores mainly thanks to an amazing theme, but were also astonishing movies as well, probably amongst the most visually impressive I've seen. *HIGHLY* recommended, if you haven't seen them.

Arial

10-30-2011, 03:58 PM

SIZE=5]Tan Dun[/SIZE]
The Banquet

Maybe of some interest for Tan Dun lovers... I've recently bought for a cheap price in a retail store a 1999 Sony Music Asia "Crounching Tiger - Hidden Dragon" wich had a sticker "HRCD - 32Bit D.S.P.Mastering" on the cover and HDCD printed on the back. I thought the regular version would be the same and comparing quickly I couldn't tell the difference at first glance. Listening further I found the asia import outstanding. Same mixing but definitely a superior definition.

Funny enough, the covers look like bad laserprints, like non-professional, when on the other hand the cd looks thiker than usual...

The cover looks as following, but with the title added in chineese below the "ost"...

I just can't find any infos about the one I have on the net.

Sanico

10-31-2011, 02:45 AM

Tan Dun
The Banquet

I have The Banquet CD, and if i knew it that had not been posted already, i would shared it sooner!
The score is very good. In fact i like it more than "Crouching Tiger..", which i think it's a bit overrated. The movie in the other hand is not so good, despite some visually elaborated sets.

Here the piano have the most important part in the musical structure, as it is the violin in "Hero", and the cello on "Crouching Tiger", all of which were composed by Tan Dun. The piano is played by Lang Lang, and he will be in the next Howard Shore score on "A Dangerous Method".

My favorite tracks of The Banquet are: 'In the Bamboo Forest', 'Horsemen in Black' and the last track 'The Banquet'.

Sirusjr

10-31-2011, 05:55 AM

hatti75 - This soundtrack is not going to be posted in this thread anytime soon because it is such a recent release. Just wait until it is posted in the general forum.

recantha

10-31-2011, 09:48 AM

Tintin (mini review/opinion)
Thoroughly impressed by the music, and it _does_ sound very much like a good old-fashioned JW score. There are elements of Catch Me if You Can, Jurassic Park and has the 'feel' of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. It's big, brassy, quirky and has some lovely themes. If you haven't listened yet, get yourself a copy - you won't be disappointed.

--
Mike

Arial

10-31-2011, 08:20 PM

I have The Banquet CD, and if i knew it that had not been posted already, i would shared it sooner!
The score is very good. In fact i like it more than "Crouching Tiger..", which i think it's a bit overrated. The movie in the other hand is not so good, despite some visually elaborated sets.

Here the piano have the most important part in the musical structure, as it is the violin in "Hero", and the cello on "Crouching Tiger", all of which were composed by Tan Dun. The piano is played by Lang Lang, and he will be in the next Howard Shore score on "A Dangerous Method".

My favorite tracks of The Banquet are: 'In the Bamboo Forest', 'Horsemen in Black' and the last track 'The Banquet'.

Thanks for the review. I must say I'm not inclined to download official releases too often. Maybe I'll try this one or will have the chance to find it in a store.

BTW, is it really a Deutsh Grommophon release, or is it a joke ? (Didn't know they get involved into new film music)

Arial

10-31-2011, 11:34 PM

Searching for any info about crounching Tiger - Hidden Dragon wich I'd love to see a complete score from one day, I've just stumbled across this. It's from 2001 but is nice to know. I'm not surprised anymore one of the the best tracks isn't on the CD ! I haven't found more about this composer...

"Crouching Tiger" Composer May Be Sued

A Chinese composer is accusing the master composer of last year's blockbuster "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" of using his work without credit or permission.

Ning Yong, an associate professor at Southern China Normal University's music conservatory, said on Monday that he had contacted a legal firm in Guangzhou about suing Tam Dun, who won the Academy Award for Best Original Score this year for the film.

"They did not tell me anything before using the score in the film," Ning said. "It is so annoying. I want a formal apology for that. All I want to do is to let my voice be heard and get back what I should have."

But director Ang Lee hit back Monday in an open letter to the Chinese media in which he said he paid royalties for Ning's work, "Camel Bell in Silk Route," which Ning wrote as a graduate student in 1982.

Ning acknowledged receiving two cheques for US$200 each in May 2000 and April 2001, but he said the cheques did not say anything about the film score.

"There is no explanation in it. I just got a cheque that might have come for any reason at all, " said Ning, "The point is not the cheque, but the bottom line is that they have used my property without permission. A cheque cannot easily appease my agony."

Tam declined to comment while on his way home to New York from Taipei over the weekend.

Ning discovered his work was in the film in March when one of his students told him about it.

The student, Liu Bo, said the China Record Company's Shanghai branch phoned him earlier in 2000 because the shooting team wanted to use a piece on his 1992 album. The music was actually Ning's works.

Liu was quoted by the Shanghai Evening Post as saying the shooting team had informed Ning and paid the royalties. Liu told this to Ning two months ago.

Record company official Chen Jianping said the company carefully followed through with all copyright obligations in making the film

"Crouching Tiger" Composer May Be Sued (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200105/22/eng20010522_70679.html)

Sanico

11-01-2011, 02:27 AM

BTW, is it really a Deutsh Grommophon release, or is it a joke ? (Didn't know they get involved into new film music)

Not a joke, it's really a DG release! They are selective, but they released some soundtracks when a composer or one of the main soloists that are under their contract, have non-film music recordings released by the DG.

Searching for any info about crounching Tiger - Hidden Dragon wich I'd love to see a complete score from one day, I've just stumbled across this. It's from 2001 but is nice to know. I'm not surprised anymore one of the the best tracks isn't on the CD ! I haven't found more about this composer...

"Crouching Tiger" Composer May Be Sued (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200105/22/eng20010522_70679.html)

Apparently the music in question is a piece of source music not originally composed by Tan Dun that was added in the movie, hence the reason why it was left out on the CD.

BBC News | FILM | Tiger composer leaps to defend score (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1349391.stm)

I don't know how this whole story turned out in the end.

Arial

11-01-2011, 02:43 AM

Maybe not such an important track then ? I thought it would be the superb music of the horse pursuit in the desert. Thanks for the infos.

Aoiichi_nii-san

11-02-2011, 05:10 AM

I know this has been posted a few weeks ago, but I had time to give it some full attention only recently. This was a very interesting and pertinent read. Thank you for having brought it here, since its subject is quite relevant to this thread, and allows me to make an extensive comment on a point that particularly stroke me.
...
As usual, comments, questions, and even (polite and constructive) criticisms are very welcome. Kudos to Deane Ogden for this excellent initiative.

Thanks for reading it. I'll probably be back in a few weeks or so with another one.

I was reading about Skyward Sword today on wikipedia, and I noticed one thing: "Staff members expressed their wish to include orchestral music in Skyward Sword, but Miyamoto initially intervened because he felt its inclusion was not necessary for a presentation that focused on gameplay." Really Miyamoto, really? Music should not be heard/noticed/is not important doesn't seem to be limited to films...

Sirusjr

11-02-2011, 05:46 AM

Well music is hardly ignored in Nintendo games or hidden so that it is barely noticed. I can certainly see where from a developer's point of view it may seem as if using an orchestra is unnecessary, especially in a game series that has used synthesized music for all of the previous games.

Those of us like me, who have become so used to the glorious sound of an orchestra that most synthesized game scores are almost painful to listen to are so far in the minority that I think it can safely be said that the average consumer is not going to notice whether or not an orchestra was used for the soundtrack on a Zelda game. I am glad that they were able to take the plunge and convince Miyamoto to include an orchestra in the new Zelda though. It's a shame the same thing can't be said for Skyrim, which would greatly benefit from the inclusion of not only a real orchestra but a different style of scoring.

Lightning Rod

11-02-2011, 12:27 PM

TazerMonkey

11-03-2011, 04:22 AM

I had never heard any of Korngold's concert music until earlier this week, when I heard the aria "Gl�ck das mir verblieb" from Die tote Stadt, which now probably ranks among the top five most beautiful things I've ever heard -- so far, the video with the best audio that I've found can be seen here (http://all.gloria.tv/?media=161617). I should be getting the album tomorrow and can upload if anyone else is interested.

streichorchester

11-03-2011, 04:52 AM

Check out the Symphonic Serenade and Violin Concerto, if you haven't already.

TazerMonkey

11-03-2011, 05:01 AM

I'm also getting recordings of the Violin Concerto and his Symphony in F#. I'll definitely keep my eyes and ears open for the Serenade.

Arial

11-03-2011, 03:45 PM

Vinphonic

11-03-2011, 05:52 PM

Definitely ! More exciting stuff to score than for most movies nowadays. A shame Miyamoto does not understand how much an orchestra can improve a game. I still play Mario Galaxy from time to time and the orchestra really improves the experience. In some games the level design, the beauty of the scenery or the story desperatly cries out for a symphonic masterpiece. Shadow of the Colossus, Ni No Kuni, Skyward Sword, Outcast, Lego Universe, Medal of Honor, Anno, Warcraft etc. have already proven how much an orchestra can strengthen the emotional connection to certain levels, scenes, characters or the whole game.
That said, the preview for the collectors edition of The Old Republic got me really excited, sounds more like an old roman epic than Star Wars, but I'm not complaining: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Collector's Edition Unboxing Trailer [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruKFaum-J9s)

Also, here is the new work from newcomer Miyu Nakamura, similar to Samurai Girls in style but more traditional, although synth and rock elements are present here as well. I enjoyed it alot.

Manyuu Hikenchou

(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/folderxc.jpg/)

Strings / Synth / Traditional Japanese

Download (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/XJDEVJ69/Manyuu_Hikenchou.7z_links)
320kbps / 38 Tracks

Arial

11-03-2011, 09:59 PM

Well, the music for Shinobi was fine enough for me.

Thagor

11-03-2011, 10:50 PM

Thanks klnderfan ;)

WildwoodPark

11-03-2011, 11:52 PM

... Does a video game really worth an orchestra, seriously ? ;)

Play Uncharted 3 and tell me that an Orchestral Score is not worthy of a video game.

Go ahead I 'll wait.

Doublehex

11-04-2011, 12:18 AM

Play any of the Uncharted and tell me that an Orchestral Score is not worthy of a video game.

Go ahead I 'll wait.

As someone who has watched a Let's Play of Uncharted 3 yesterday and just finished the soundtrack, this.

WildwoodPark

11-04-2011, 12:34 AM

This what? is worthy or not worthy in your estimation.

Vinphonic

11-04-2011, 02:54 AM

Doublehex

11-04-2011, 03:00 AM

Uncharted 3 is really good, but Edmonson could still use the main theme a bit more. Another minor complaint I have is the lack of closure. The Uncharted series would really benefit from proper End Credits (concert arrangements).
However, tracks like Ambushed do compensate for the little shortcomings.

Oh come on, now your nickpicking. Uncharted 3 kicks all sorts of righteous butt. Sure, a credit overture would be nice, but hey! What we get is freaking awesome. It's like looking a gift tiger in the mouth.

Vinphonic

11-04-2011, 03:07 AM

Of course I am nickpicking ;)

I have waited two scores for a more thematic approach because Nate's Theme is awesome and almost never hearing it during jaw-dropping moments, chase scenes or heroic events in the game is almost a crime. Williams never made that mistake with Indy :D

herbaciak

11-04-2011, 11:00 AM

Uncharted 3 - banal, cliched, way to modern. But I kinda like it. It's enjoyable. But I don't think I need 2 CD version. Guess I'll stay with one CD. Unless there is something totally awesome on second CD. So? Is there?

Arial

11-04-2011, 11:45 AM

Play Uncharted 3 and tell me that an Orchestral Score is not worthy of a video game.

Go ahead I 'll wait.

Thanks but I've got enough with playing my real life. lol ! I'm also scoring it.

Vinphonic

11-04-2011, 03:04 PM

@herbaciak

The second CD has some really good tracks but also terrible remixes. The problem with the CD releases is the lack of structure, unlike a movie score the tracks on the 2CD version are all over the place instead of chronological order. The best solution would be a custom compilation.

EDIT: I would like to bring a special score to everybody's attention. It was this years surprise score for me and an instant favorite. This one needs way more recognition.

Performed by the Polish Radio Symphony Orchestra And Cappella Corale Varsavianna Choir

Download
(http://www.fileserve.com/file/xpRrRTp/OSTCopernicusStar2011.rar)
Please buy this score from La La Lands here (http://www.lalalandrecords.com/Copernicus.html).

Sample: Gwiazda Kopernika. Musica: Abel Korzeniowski - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHRI9tDaXg&feature=related)

I love the part after 1:14 to death. Lyrical, magical, unforgettable.

Lhurgoyf

11-04-2011, 07:12 PM

Doublehex: You watched Let's play of Uncharted 3 from guys at Video Games Awesome, don't you? :)

Doublehex

11-04-2011, 11:34 PM

Nope, it was by some guy called xnerdalterx. He had the most annoying voice I have ever heard, but his channel was the only one that was complete so I grinned and bared it.

Sirusjr

11-06-2011, 01:26 AM

I wasn't a big fan of Copernicus Star. The score may be great but the mastering was totally off and so I couldn't enjoy the music.

Faleel

11-06-2011, 06:11 AM

The mastering was totally off and so I couldn't enjoy the music.
in what way?

cansino

11-06-2011, 04:16 PM

ALEXANDER BORODIN: REQUIEM
Philharmonia Orchestra, BBC Symphony Chorus, Geoffrey Simon (conductor)

BORODIN Requiem etc [HC]: Classical Reviews- June 2001 MusicWeb(UK) (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/June01/BorodinRequiem.htm)

Details here (http://anonym.to/?http://www.calarecords.com/acatalog/info_CACD1029.html)

Grab it here in lossless! (http://anonym.to/?http://www.megaupload.com/?d=32IEK43F)

Contents :
1. Requiem, for Solo Tenor, Men's Chorus & Orchestra (orchestrated by Leopold Stokowski)

Polovtsian Dances and Suite from Prince Igor (orchestrated by Alexander Glazunov & Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov)
2. Overture
3. Chorus of the Polovtsian Maidens
4. Dance of the Polovtsian Maidens
5. Polovtsian March
6. Polovtsian Dances

7. Nocturne from String Quartet No. 2 (orchestrated by Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov)

8. In the Steppes of Central Asia

Petite Suite (orchestrated by Alexander Glazunov)
9. Au Couvent
10. Mazurka Rustique
11. Mazurka
12. Reverie
13. Serenade
14. Finale: Scherzo-Nocturne-Scherzo

This is mostly for preview purposes. You are advised to buy the disc (in case you like it), since Cala has some really hot releases!
Cala Records--Geoffrey Simon Conducts (http://www.calarecords.com/acatalog/Geoffrey_Simon.html)
SA-CD.net - Cala Records (http://www.sa-cd.net/alltitles/392)

************************************************** ************************************************** *********
Feel the BIG orchestral sound with a sonic spectacular by Leopold Stokowski's idiosyncratic orchestral transcriptions!!!
Exercise extreme caution when you play this. It can easily destroy your speakers!

THE FANTASTATIC STOKOWSKI TRANSCRIPTIONS FOR ORCHESTRA
Cincinnati Pops Orchestra, conducted by Erich Kunzel

Details here (http://anonym.to/?http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/The-Fantastic-Stokowski/)
Sonic Hall of Fame (http://www.classicalcdreview.com/sonichall4.html)

Grab it here in lossless! (http://anonym.to/?http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KXW3F0Q9)

All works orchestrated by Leopold Stokowski
Contents :
1. Bach: Toccata & Fugue in D minor BWV 565
2. Boccherini: Menuet
3. Bach: "Little" Fugue in G minor BWV 578
4. Beethoven: Adagio Sostenuto from Moonlight Sonata
5. Brahms: Hungarian Dance No. 6
6. Debussy: Clair de lune
7. Albeniz: Fete-Dieu a Seville
8. Debussy: La cathedrale engloutle
9. Rachmaninoff: Prelude in C-sharp minor Op. 3 No 2
10. Moussorgsky: Night on Bald Mountain
11. Moussorgsky: The Great Gate of Kiev from Pictures at an Exhibition

THANK YOU !!!!

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt7hy3XSjQ1qe0eclo1_r26_500.gif

Sirusjr

11-06-2011, 07:28 PM

in what way?

I don't know how to describe it but I think it is related to the way the score was recorded. The orchestra doesn't sound right. I could hear it in the samples when it was first posted and skipped it because of it. I later confirmed it by listening to the full score.

Vinphonic

11-06-2011, 07:37 PM

Damn, sometimes I believe I have very good ears but compared to Sirusjr and many others on this forum I should have known better :D.
The orchestra sounds okay to me, could be a little more lush in a few places but otherswise fine. I guess my ears aren't as developed as yours although I'm slowly beginning to notice nuances I hadn't noticed before. I guess it's a matter of time and experience.

@arthierr:
Since you recommended it, I checked out Red Cliff and while the usual faults of asian filmmaking were obviously noticable, some scenes very simply breathtaking. From a visual standpoint it is indeed fantastic. I also hadn't noticed before that some of the music I use in Shogun 2 Total War is infact from the movies. After watching them I suddenly felt the urge to play the game asap ;).

Doublehex

11-06-2011, 07:48 PM

Arial

11-06-2011, 08:10 PM

Not so sure about that. I listened to it and it sounded just fine to me. I think this is just a case of someone subconsciously looking for something wrong.

That's not because he can't explain it in detail that he's forcedly wrong, he's sharing his feelings and that's all right. No need to feel like an ass because you can't get it. I too have listened to the sample, and I too felt something wrong. Maybe because of different styles of orchestration mixed together in one cue, I don't know. Musicaly, it doesn't work for me for the same reason: a melt of different classic styles. Seductive, but not very original.

Sirusjr

11-06-2011, 09:02 PM

I think it has more to do with the budget of the recording when it was done and the less well known orchestra that was used on the score. I remember when there was a mention of the orchestra used on the thread on FSM and it was a smaller eastern european orchestra.

Doublehex - I wasn't looking for something wrong, I heard something off when I listened to the samples and decided based on that I wasn't going to buy it. By listening to the full score, I was hoping that I might find it to be just a case of poor sounding samples and the actual CD sounding better, but it was inherent in the recording. Perhaps Lens or Tango can chime in here and confirm what I am hearing and better describe it.

tangotreats

11-06-2011, 11:41 PM

Well, I downloaded Uncharted 3, listened to thirty seconds, skipped quickly through the rest of the tracks, and then deleted it. What an absolute turd. We truly have become jaded and desperate if we listen to that and respond with anything but dripping scorn...

As for Copernicus Star, it certainly is a strange sounding recording; the orchestra is excellent, but something is off. It almost sounds as if it was recorded in overdubs in different studios. The purely orchestral parts are rather bass heavy and treble low but otherwise have a very vintage quality about them. Perhaps the studio is using old broken microphones or something... Who knows?

Either way, it's certainly not enough to spoil enjoyment of the score - assuming you like the music... which I don't. ;)

Oh well, can't win 'em all...

Sirusjr

11-07-2011, 12:03 AM

Naoki Sato - Blood-C Soundtrack Volume 1
320kbps-12tracks-Originally posted by Nipponsei
Download (http://www.multiupload.com/VNXJAI6YY8)

Yet another victim of the recent trend to split an anime's soundtrack into a bunch of small parts bundled with the DVDs.

Vinphonic

11-07-2011, 12:21 AM

Well, I downloaded Uncharted 3, listened to thirty seconds, skipped quickly through the rest of the tracks, and then deleted it. What an absolute turd. We truly have become jaded and desperate if we listen to that and respond with anything but dripping scorn...

Welcome back Tango ! I see you haven't lost your touch.

And yes I enjoy the music of Uncharted despite knowing that it's miles away from the likes of Indy. I'm just happy that we get an adventure score that is not drowned in synth and actually has themes (even if they aren't used much). It might not work as a standalone listen but in the game it definetly does.

That said, any news of Inazuma Eleven Go ? I heared a few samples recently and they sounded great !
Also Gundam Age is fantastic stuff, I hope to god that it will be an offical OST and not this Limited Edition crap.

Doublehex

11-07-2011, 01:29 AM

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I love the Uncharted series, both musically and narratively. Yes a big flaw is the lack of motifs, but so what? There has never been a cue in the whole series that is not well written and does not add to the experience of the game. The Uncharted series has a sense of character and personality that is not replicated elsewhere, and on top of that it is a great orchestral work!

Now, I know that we can't be calling a rotten apple a miracle in this day and age, but from the way I am hearing things Uncharted is as far away from rotten as it can get.

WildwoodPark

11-07-2011, 02:32 AM

I like the Uncharted 3 Soundtrack but then again I am new to this whole Soundtrack thing and have much to learn.

Arial

11-07-2011, 03:10 AM

TazerMonkey

11-07-2011, 07:00 AM

There were a lot of video game music I used to like very much while playing, as great film scores I used to enjoy while watching films.

... But now, one should give me money for I take a listening experience of these. All of this rarely stands alone as such. There are some scores I absolutely wanted to have, and guess what: I never listen to these. There are no more than a dozen of soundtracks that I use to play over the time, and let's say about twenty that I'll play once each couple of years.

I think you and I think somewhat alike with regard to our collections. Something really has to stand out for me to take notice, and something has to do that and be pretty great for me to want to keep it and play it. There's simply too much out there for me to function otherwise.

The Uncharted music isn't "rotten," it's just not exceptional. It does its job in-context, and that's about it. Same with Copernicus's Star, as far as I can tell. Both are big and orchestral, which is certainly something admirable in this day and age, but I don't really sense any substance within, no real personality and neither one really goes anywhere interesting. These are my overall impressions from having listened to a few tracks and skimmed the rest, all IMHO of course. :)

Vinphonic

11-07-2011, 04:42 PM

Well, if I have to be perfectly honest, I don't think it is great or even good myself if I have to judge them as objectivly as possible. I just like them and I can't even describe why exactly, they just work for me.
And bland orchestral music is still a thousand times better than bland RCP.
You see, the core of my collection is still Williams, Goldsmith, Horner and classical eastern composers. The best music I have ever heared is still older than a century.
But a huge part of my collection consists of modern scores, synth and "functional" orchestral music. Sometimes I just need the simple and effective music: When driving, running or during certain games. They set me in a certain mood and I don't have to concentrate on the music as much as when I listen to a classical piece. For certain situations they work perfectly and frankly, my standards would be astronomically high if I judge every new score against Dvorak and Mahler or Williams and Goldsmith.

Gordian Knot

11-07-2011, 06:20 PM

I almost never enter into this thread. The lack of hubris by several of the more prominent posters constantly amazes me. But I do check back from time to time just to see what silliness they are going to come up with next. The Copernicus Star criticisms shows me nothing much has changed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have no issue with that. Those who act like they are the gods of music and pronounce their disapproval from on high though. That is just arrogance. Guys, your hearing is not any more refined than the rest of us, no matter what you believe. If you don't like something just say so. There IS a difference between criticism and contempt.

NaotaM

11-07-2011, 07:56 PM

That's right, guys. Never put conviction or passion into your words, always like everything, never express detailed reasons or logic behind your disapproval cause that makes you "arrogant", and always, always preface your words with "In my opinion" or "Perhaps it's just me", or else you'll make others with opposing opinions feel vewy sad.

Doublehex

11-07-2011, 09:14 PM

Arial

11-07-2011, 09:42 PM

True arrogance is sure disturbing. Nobody ever complains about touchyness though while it's its exact counterpart. Why should we give advantage to the later over the former ?... ^ Like he said: moving along...

... and no, we were not all born equal with the same ears, and we don't all take care of details the same way. So, for some, important details wich can bring equilibrium are futile.

arthierr

11-07-2011, 10:11 PM

Good to be back, guys. Thanks for the last contributions, as usual I'll check them ASAP. Also, I've spotted a few interesting discussion topics I'll answer a bit later.

But for now, I have to say that I can't express my amusement at that smartarse's comment a little above. I was pretty sure that some people visiting this thread sometimes *THINK* this kind of thing, but I wouldn't imagine that one of them would actually have the bollocks to *EXPRESS* their views in such a blunt and impolite way.

I almost never enter into this thread.
Given your poorly sensible and quite discourteous post, I can tell it's a blessing for the thread.

But I do check back from time to time just to see what silliness they are going to come up with next.
Another piece of silliness coming just beneath for you. How about that?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have no issue with that. Those who act like they are the gods of music and pronounce their disapproval from on high though. That is just arrogance.
Wow. The inanity of this remark is just amazing.

Ok folks, so for the THREE of you who haven't understood how "opinion expression" generally works, here's a little tip: when there is a statement where an opinion is expressed, then the terms "in my opinion" or "I think" are IMPLICITELY included in the statement.

You see, this is a very practical feature since it prevents people from having to say the same thing many times. Cool stuff, isn't it?

Guys, your hearing is not any more refined than the rest of us, no matter what you believe.

OF COURSE it's not!! How can we have believed otherwise?! Thank you so much for this magnificient piece of pure wisdom! Now I know we are all exactly the SAME; we ALL have exactly the SAME level of listening experience and musical knowledge. So ANY opinion expressed on music here is strictly EQUAL to another. In this regard, I remember John Williams once said that Haydn's music is better than his own music; and I also remember that my concierge, who has no musical education whatsoever, said that Haydn "is crap". Well, according to your wonderfully smart statement, their opinions are strictly equally valid; there is no better opinion between them. John Williams' opinion is in no way superior, "more refined", more relevant than my concierge's opinion, so they both deserve to be taken with the same level of attention and respect.

Now that your post has opened my eyes, I know that I can now proudly express MY opinions on ANY subject, even those, especially those I know nothing about, without fearing to look like a fool, since we all have equal opinions. For instance, when the plane's pilot will choose to do such maneuver, I'll tell him not to, since I feel like it would be better to do another maneuver, even though I know NOTHING about piloting. Also, when a veteran professional piano player tells me that he finds a performance rather amateurish, I'll tell him that he's wrong, because MY opinion is that the performance is pretty good, even though I don't know how to play piano! But hey, THEIR opinions aren't better and "more refined" than MINE, as you wisely said. All our opinions are equal, so they'd better respect MY great opinion, pretentious and arrogant jerks!

Now, if you have some other luminous insights to express, please do, I'd be glad to see them just to have a good laugh!

Arial

11-07-2011, 10:45 PM

Pur�e, tu manies l' anglais d' une main de ma�tre !

Sirusjr

11-07-2011, 11:11 PM

A shame I have to say it to you Arthierr, but - don't feed the trolls ;)

arthierr

11-08-2011, 01:38 AM

Anyway, let's move on. :D

Regarding Uncharted, I just saw some gameplay videos here: Uncharted 3 gameplay (HD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Uncharted+3++gameplay+%28HD%2 9&aq=f) And first off, I have to say, what a freakin' awesome game! Seriously, look at THAT. VG have gone a long way, and now really become like interactive movies. Then, about the music, I haven't heard anything I would qualify as "great", as a matter of fact, but it sounded like a perfectly effective score in context nonetheless. And the fact that it's orchestral, even if not "great", is a real plus for such game, which is clearly inspired by the Indy series. Let's not complain, because we could have ended with an insipid RCP score such as Benjamin Gates!

The best music I have ever heared is still older than a century.

Excellent remark.

Indeed, some people think that the romantic period was the apogee of music. After that, music somewhat started to go in increasingly curious ways, either towards popular forms of music (thus leading to the industry of popular music), or oppositely towards bizarre, hermetic academic works (Modern and Post Modern stuff). There's a reason why most grand orchestral film music takes its inspiration from this period, that's because music then reached a level of sheer beauty and emotional expressiveness never reached before, while at the same time being accessible to the vast majority of people. romantic music was both: technically, artistically great, AND emotionally accessible, pleasant to the masses. That's exactly how great film scores should be.

TazerMonkey

11-08-2011, 01:51 AM

Indeed, some people think that the romantic period was the apogee of music. After that, music somewhat started to go in increasingly curious ways, either towards popular forms of music (thus leading to the industry of popular music), or oppositely towards bizarre, hermetic academic works (Modern and Post Modern stuff). There's a reason why most grand orchestral film music takes its inspiration from this period, that's because music then reached a level of sheer beauty and emotional expressiveness never reached before, while at the same time being accessible to the vast majority of people. romantic music was both: technically, artistically great, AND emotionally accessible, pleasant to the masses.

Very much this, particularly the late Romantic....

Arial

11-08-2011, 01:59 AM

Isn't it the fact that romantic period's music uses "images" ? The fonction looks like "illustrating" things, events, colouring with emotions (Mozar or Beethoven's music looks more like playing with tempers, facts, than emotions besides. Looks more like a matter of construction and intelligence, not to say analogy). To go further on that matter maybe opera music can help understand all this. Anyway, my knowledge of these periods music is a bit lacking. But I see some relations with painting in the same period here.

arthierr

11-08-2011, 02:43 AM

Well, Romantic period's music was indeed very illustrative, especially in the late Romantic period. That's one of the big reasons why this kind of music goes very well with movies, since it illustrates them with much effectivenes, and blends very well with images.

Besides, let's not forget that Program Music started during this period. Music then had the very function to illustrate some scenes or evoke some emotions of an independent story. The whole narrative style of music, the one which tells a story, started at this period. The use of themes and motifs that identify various aspects of a story also really started then. In fact, most orchestral film music is a direct adaptation / evolution of features invented at that time.

But that doesn't mean that this music was necessarily less "intellectual" than the period before (Classical). In fact, most Romantic composers managed to write music which was sometimes as complex as before (sometimes even more complex since they tended to expand classical forms), while adding a new layer of sheer emotionality, and also using a much larger orchestra that allowed to produce a richer and more diversified sound, which permits more expressive possibilities.

Arial

11-08-2011, 10:44 AM

Well, while agreeing with most of your post we could agree that lush is not forcedly a necessity for "more possibilities". I'd say it's double-edged. And I think that's where you make a mistake here when you say " But that doesn't mean that this music was necessarily less "intellectual" than the period before (Classical)"...

On the contrary ! One must be very instinctive to get his head off the richness of modern / or advanced possibilities (just look at nowadays. We can do any thing, and most use to do shit). The nineteeth and twentieth centuries are justly the more intellelectual periods even when it comes to shape emotions unfortunately. I'm not saying all is falling into that intellectual "tyranny", but most of it does.

We spoke a lot about Poledouris work for Conan recently and, for exemple, I appreciate much more this than any piece from the romantic period. Perhaps justly because something like Conan brings back all emotion getting rid of any intellectual turn / intention / explanation (note that it is brillantely digging into ancient music). But once again, I'm using this as an exemple and I'm sure there would be others even from the romantic age. However the intellectual approach is unfortunately a signature of our times, nineteeth century included.

Earlier great composers may have look and know how to use some greater knowledge, like the music of the spheres... And that is Intelligence wich has nothing to do with an intellectual approach ! We use to confuse these two. Intelligence isn't stranger to emotions, but it carries these in itself with modesty ("pudeur", en fran�ais ;-)).

-

To notice, older Gregorian music is typically using such knowledge. Even medicine has reckoned the healing virtue of it and I recently saw a demonstration from a professor (medicine) who has been able to create a tool wich can focus on a bone the very same vibrations emited by Gregorian chants, by what he can knit together a broken bone... In two hours ! Such music is known to be a great cure for cancer too.

Music should be able to bring emotions, to make us cry or laugh without any explanations, without any narrative intend. We've got a lot to learn.

Vinphonic

11-08-2011, 12:59 PM

Oh my God, Williams is finally back ! War Horse is FANTASTIC. The first track alone is better than almost anything I've heared from Hollywood for a very long time.

tangotreats

11-08-2011, 02:04 PM

Oh my God, Williams is finally back ! War Horse is FANTASTIC. The first track alone is better than almost anything I've heared from Hollywood for a very long time.

This says nothing. John Williams belching into a vocoder would be better than anything Hollywood has produced recently. The sound of Williams' stomach rumbling accompanied by a bassline played on his armpits would be better than anything Hollywood has produced recently.

I am guessing it's a bit more theme-oriented than Tintin, which is a comparitively cerebral score. (Not to say that Williams' tuneful scores aren't cerebral, but for me Tintin was surprisingly dry as far as melodies go. A glorious work, a symphonic masterpiece, absolutely - but no real standout hummable melody comparable with Williams' enviable catalogue of tuneful tunes; Star Wars, Superman, Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, etc, etc.)

From the samples I have heard so far, War Horse sounds more like vintage Williams than we have heard perhaps for twenty years or so. It has overtones of Hook. Nobody expects Williams to magically travel back in time thirty years and rediscover his older technique - because he's a different man now... but it's incredibly nice that he can still catch a tune out of the air with the same carefree ease that he did in the 1970s and 80s.

Unfortunately I am stuck in a training laboratory in central London at the moment so cannot listen to this... but I will do so when I get home and will certainly let rip with some further comments then.

Arial

11-08-2011, 02:09 PM

... Unfortunately I am stuck in a training laboratory in central London...

You're a mouse ?!!

tangotreats

11-08-2011, 02:14 PM

You're a mouse ?!!

squeak squeak!

*runs*

arthierr

11-08-2011, 04:37 PM

And I think that's where you make a mistake here when you say " But that doesn't mean that this music was necessarily less "intellectual" than the period before (Classical)"...

I'm not quite sure I made a "mistake" here, I rather believe that there's a confusion with the term "intellectual". So let me clarify: what I meant when I used this term here was roughly equivalent to complexity, in terms of melody, counterpoint, harmony, chord progression, rhythm, form, structure, orchestration, etc. The more complex a piece of music is, according to these criterions, the more "intellectual" it is to me. In this regard, the music of the Romantic period (mostly) wasn't less "intellectual" than the music of the Classical period, even though some might believe that the fact of bringing a lot of emotion in music could lead to such a thing. Romantic composers had the genius to write impressive pieces in terms of complexity, AND at the same time to be able convey intense emotions and feelings in it. To put it simply, their music appealed both to the brain and to the heart.

lush is not forcedly a necessity for "more possibilities". I'd say it's double-edged... On the contrary ! One must be very instinctive to get his head off the richness of modern / or advanced possibilities (just look at nowadays. We can do any thing, and most use to do shit).

Lush is not strictly a necessity for "more possibilities", but it nearly is! It's a simple matter of logic: on cuisine, when you have more ingredients, you can technically cook a larger number of dishes, and more complex and various ones. This doesn't mean these dishes will necessarily taste better than simpler ones, but at least more ingredients give you some much larger creative possibilities. And if you happen to be a very good cook, you will then be able to prepare some really wonderful and extravagant dishes thanks to them. It's the same with music: Romantic composers had much more freedom in terms of composition (notably thanks to expanded and freer forms) and orchestration (thanks to a larger and more diverse orchestra). So since they were very, VERY good composers, they used these new possibilities to create some truly great music that couldn't exist before, because of the various limitations of the previous periods.

We spoke a lot about Poledouris work for Conan recently and, for exemple, I appreciate much more this than any piece from the romantic period. Perhaps justly because something like Conan brings back all emotion getting rid of any intellectual turn / intention / explanation (note that it is brillantely digging into ancient music).

First off, are you sure you have listened to enough Romantic works to be able to state that you "appreciate much more this than any piece from the romantic period"? There are some pretty impressive stuff in this period, so make sure to listen to a *lot* of it. You could be surprised.

Then, according to my previous explanation of the term "intellectual", we can say that Conan certainly DOES NOT lack some real intellectual merit. It's quite a superbly crafted score, in fact, and yet happens to be emotionally very powerful and inspired, that is, nearly what I meant when I said this:

Romantic music was both: technically, artistically great, AND emotionally accessible, pleasant to the masses. That's exactly how great film scores should be.

Music should be able to bring emotions, to make us cry or laugh without any explanations, without any narrative intend.
This is an interesting point. I indeed mostly believe that music, to be really great, must have the capacity to be directly, spontaneously pleasant and appealing to most people (and not only to academics or elitists), on top of being technically complex.

Basically, there are three kinds of music, in this regard:

1) A popular kind of music, which is indeed very immediately accessible and pleasant to most people, but which lacks too much some real complexity and intellectual value to be able to be fully appreciated by people having a deeper approach to music.

2) An elitist kind of music, which is (at times) really very complicated and cerebral, but which severely lacks some simple capacity to be directly enjoyable, fun, and pleasant. This is typically what is produced in academic circles disconnected from the "real world".

3) A balanced kind of music, which has both some real intellectual merit, and the capacity to give some immediate pleasure to most listeners. This is for instance the music of the Romantic period, or great orchestral film scores, etc.

This is this last kind of music I really care about, and to which this thread is devoted. I really believe that you shouldn't HAVE to deeply analyse a piece of music to be able to appreciate it. Good music should basically have two layers of apprehension: 1) an immediate, superficial level where you just listen to it with a floating attention, and have some direct and genuine pleasure; 2) a deeper, less directly accessible level, where, through analysis, you happen to discover some neat intricate features which makes it even more enjoyable.

streichorchester

11-08-2011, 06:55 PM

But that doesn't mean that this music was necessarily less "intellectual" than the period before (Classical). In fact, most Romantic composers managed to write music which was sometimes as complex as before (sometimes even more complex since they tended to expand classical forms), while adding a new layer of sheer emotionality, and also using a much larger orchestra that allowed to produce a richer and more diversified sound, which permits more expressive possibilities.

The key idea here is the disversity in sound. A good modern orchestral work should not be measured just its complexity but also in its use of different colors, different themes, different harmonies, different rhythms, etc. Form is not always the end goal.

One of the reasons my favorite Mozart piece is the Requiem is because it is just so colorful. But some people prefer subtlety, which is what the classical tradition was all about before Beethoven entered the scene and opera/ballet started to bleed into the conservatory. Similarly, when it comes to modern-ish American composers I prefer Hanson over other relatively more popular academic composers (Piston, Creston, Diamond, etc.) I find those other guys boring, despite how well-crafted their music is. You know who else found Hanson more interesting? John Williams.

Once you reach the era of Tchaikovsky and later Rachmaninov, Mahler, etc. the subtlety and complexity plays a back seat to pure emotion and color. They are all still present, just in different ratios. This is largely because the "purpose" behind the symphony changed from Haydn's "simple exercise in academics" to Beethoven's "message to the world."

That isn't to say there aren't some very colorful works out there that I find boring. Those works I find boring are largely because tradition and academic awareness were ignored. There has to be some of that classical complexity to keep the music grounded, so it can be easily understood. The most common example of this would be the form of the piece as ABA: A is the main idea, B supports it by contrasting it. The derivatives of this form include the usual sonata-allegro, rondo, scherzo, theme+variations. On a larger scale it indicates the use of a multi-movement work (Allegro, Adagio, Scherzo, Allegro is most common.) On a smaller scale it indicates the use of motives and variations to drive your basic ideas. If you just compose ABC DEF GHI then there is no message about the ideas in the form. Every new thing is just as important as the last thing. Remember that expression: if everyone is special, than no one is?

Using Conan as an example, you could rate each aspect of the score based on its aderehence to classicisms such as form, variation, etc. and then decide how much of that is sacrificed for the emotion of the moment, or the requirements of the drama. Overall you'd probably find Conan is much more emotional than complex, more romantic than classical, but still shares a lot of the complexities of classical music in the use of variations and motives.

It's difficult to think of an example of a film score that sacrifices emotion and drama in favor of complexity, or where classical idioms are are at war with romantic ones. I'd say Giacchino's Star Trek is a good example of a complex score where he tries to make everything a variation on a single idea, but it is so full of drama and isn't subtle at all, so the ratio still tips in favor of the romantic rather than the classical. But in the end I prefer the balanced Conan to the unbalanced Star Trek.

Faleel

11-08-2011, 08:45 PM

Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Main Menu Theme - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-UrasDAXJE&feature=channel_video_title)

streichorchester

11-08-2011, 09:16 PM

How did they get Bernard Herrmann to arrange that?

Faleel

11-08-2011, 09:32 PM

Talking to me?

Gordian Knot

11-08-2011, 09:53 PM

Vinphonic

11-08-2011, 10:38 PM

How did they get Bernard Herrmann to arrange that?

Actually, I have thought the same thing when I first heared the Intro theme but was also strangely reminded of Kaoru Wada. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I can hold out until Christmas to play this golden gem, 18th November can't come soon enough.

@Gordian Knot

I agree that it may seem like arrogance for some people but you have to consider that most people who prominently post in this thread are very passionate about orchestral music. Some work as composers themselves and have written music for all kinds of projects, others are more interested in the psychological aspect of music. These are people who have years of experience, either listenting to music or composing it. I would say they are not arrogant but rather frustrated on the current state of orchestral music in the west (as well as I am). Some more than others.

I will not deny that the tone to your response was rather harsh but after reading your post again, I believe they are in the right on that one (although I do not agree on everything and still hold Copernicus Star in high regard). You accuse them of being "silly" and arrogant but based on my experience in this thread that opinion is absurd.

tangotreats

11-08-2011, 10:45 PM

Gordian Knot: We're all here for a genuine discussion. From your previous post, and from the one directly above, it appears that you aren't. Approach in a friendly way and you will always receive a response in kind - at least from me. From my perspective, you thundered in here essentially to tell us we were all idiots. If that wasn't your intention, please clarify - I am all for a genuine dialogue and always willing to make a new friend.

Please understand that your tone suggests you are biased against us and only wish to cause trouble. As I say, if that's not your intention, please try again - but understand why you have been interpreted that way.

From my perspective, I find a lot of people outside of this thread to be highly objectionable. They ridicule us and think we are acting elite, when all we are doing is representing a different kind of audience. They think that any intelligent discussion is somehow crafted as a personal attack upon their own intelligence, when all we are doing is talking about things we love. They say we're pompous, but we're not. We're particular.

For everybody who has stood up and said they hate this thread, hate us all, and hate what we stand for... there has been another who has stood up and with the same vigour, praised the thread and its participants - recognised it for its good work and mature attitude to culture. People have said what a breath of fresh air the thread is, on a forum which is largely populated by people who consider trailer music the epitomy of art (and respond to any contrary thoughts with the old and incredibly tired "elitist snobs!" retort) and who react with fiery anger to an involved discussion. "Give me the download links and shut up with all the debate!" they holler.

So, c'mon my friend... say something positive and can the attitude; your first post was dripping with it - you accuse us of not giving you a chance and not encouraging a genuine discussion, and yet your opening line insulted us.

If you're not trolling, challenge the preconceptions the thread has about you.

You are very welcome; contrary to what you might think or hear, this thread is very friendly, and very welcoming - but we can't give you everything - you have to give a little as well. :)

Arial

11-08-2011, 11:17 PM

From my perspective, I find a lot of people outside of this thread to be highly objectionable. They ridicule us and think we are acting elite, when all we are doing is representing a different kind of audience. They think that any intelligent discussion is somehow crafted as a personal attack upon their own intelligence, when all we are doing is talking about things we love. They say we're pompous, but we're not. We're particular.

Exactly my thought, used as I am to see this thread from outside. I mean of course, stepping in or even following an argument over here is a big effort in itself.

I've read the answer from arthierr to my post, and the obvious is that I don't have 1) the right vocabulary for making myself understood well enough; 2) the sufficient knowledge to go deep in the subject (you're right arthierr: I don't know so much of the romantic period, I warned you though)... So Gordian Knot (intellectual name !), should I feel like a shit and accuse those guys here of arrogance ?... Well.

Streichorchester's post seems more accurate in term of observation and vocabulary.I hear you arthierr, but I think my way to put things isn't all clear enough. For exemple, when I speak of "intellect" I speak of the brain as a tool, wich is just that, a tool that allows you to translate thoughts and feelings, but imperfectly and only by assembling things. Intelligence is what the human nature runs after, let's say something much more high and universal - closer to the origin of the idea; intellect beeing only a low reflection of it (watch our occidental world and you get it). Emotion can be turned and degraded to the intellect level, or expressed and even raised with intelligence, ie taking into consideration every levels/layers of the context. Streichorchester expressed it very well in his exemples imo.

But I've got to admit, the discussion flies high for me, so maybe Gordian Knot and I will just "watch and learn" ! Haha.

NaotaM

11-08-2011, 11:25 PM

WAHHH WAHHH WAHHH

Listen you pissant, you never attempted or had any intention to start a discussion of any kind, so put the victim card back in the deck. Your post was nothing but "GEE SURE IS SNOBBY IN HERE NEENER NEENER", and believe it or not, kid, a crowd is much, much less willing to take whatever it is your saying at face value when you preface it with(or in your case, all you do) shouting how dumb and silly they all are, much less treat you with any amount of civility. What kills me most is how you reference the Copernicus Star debate, which is really no worse than "eh, the mastering's kinda iffy"(and fun fact, there are, in fact, people with ears far more trained to notice and judge sound quality and mastering than others. There are scores of people with businesses based around it) and, ironically, one guy who said he just didn't like it. So either you're so stupid you interpret dissenting opinion as automatic snobbery, or you were reaching for anything you could to point to to start a fight. Instead, you became a laughingstock.

And since I found it, you now have a fight as well. Go you.

I never called anyone a smartarse. I never called anyone else a troll for having a differing opinion. I never negated anyone else's comments as not worth the time to read. I never asked for a response just so I could have a good laugh at you

Riiiight.

I almost never enter into this thread. The lack of hubris by several of the more prominent posters constantly amazes me. But I do check back from time to time just to see what silliness they are going to come up with next. The Copernicus Star criticisms shows me nothing much has changed.

Yes, quite. I usually can't be bothered to waste my time among the silly, pompous masses of this communitay, but occasionally I will pop in now and again to see how the peons can amuse me this time DOHOHOHO

I admit I expected nothing more than contempt for my bother. Heaven forbid some of you might take a moment and reflect before resorting to ridicule.

Jesus Christ, motherfuckin Bono would tell you to cram it. I'M ONLY TRYING TO OPEN UP REFLECTIVE DISCUSSION YOU GAIZ. But in all srsness, I hear ya, you brave, blunt An HERO who takes no guff and tells it like it is cause everyone's clearly thinking it. Some people. Make your very first impression byt calling everyone a bunch of pompous losers and suddenly it's like you're the asshole. What a world.

So who is being impolite here? I may be the only one willing to say so, but I am hardly the only one who thinks it. There are others on this forum who think as I do. It ain't just me.

Who gives a shit? No, honestly, I ask you. I ask everyone here: Who really cares what absolutely everyone thinks about us? Express an opinion with ANY kind of conviction or reasoning and people will jump down your ass with the snobby elitist canard, one of the absolute worst, most toxic labels to ever happen to discussion of the arts. You'll never please everyone, always hurt someone's feelings, so why bother nuetering ourselves?

I'll vouch there are quite a few behavioral tics of this very thread that can strike me as pretty alienating(the incessant self-congraluatory tone; the removal of wholesale tracks from albums if they aren't orchestral, in some cases if the posters just doesn't like them themselves; Tango, you really gotta stop telling hater to stop getting excited about the latest RC whatever he's parading about. You can tear into the music all ya want, but don't bring the guy down, geez lol; arthierr, there IS a difference in considering someone's experience in music as making their opinion a tad more valid from an academic standpoint for a theisis or professional review, and saying that lack of experience devalues the opinion of another,
especially if they can acquit their stance well. That Gordian Knot failed to do so notwithstanding, music, especially just listening to music, is not a techinical hard skill like piloting, it's an art, and you can argue merit of art up and down, but all voices, even unqualified ones, deserve to be heard if there's weight to them.)

But here's the thing, inB4 you fall over yourself to play puppetmaster; I can point out specific examples that can be discussed, things I've felt for quite awhile and would never speak without the foresight to back them up intelligently and civillily Things that could help expand the boundaries of this thread to more people(along with the all the good and bad that'd entail) and help foster further musical debate and expose more to more music. And I may be completely off-base with everything I just called out, who can say? You just sneered at us for allegedly sneering at others like a hypocritical nimrod, and until you have something actually worthwhile to critique, zip it with your insufferable whining.

Arial

11-08-2011, 11:27 PM

Eeerr... How do you feel now Naota ?... Better ?

NaotaM

11-08-2011, 11:36 PM

Eeerr... How do you feel now Naota ?... Better ?

Heh, funny thing bout me is, when presented with infuriatingly stupid, paradoxically condescending posts, I tend to respond in an emotional manner to indicate I may, just ballparkin' it here, but just may have found them to be infuriatingly stupid and paradoxically condescending.

tangotreats

11-08-2011, 11:38 PM

Tango, you really gotta stop telling hater to stop getting excited about the latest RC whatever he's parading about.

Haha! He really gotta stop telling us some poxy rubbish score is the "reincarnation of Jerry Goldsmith" just because for fifteen seconds in the 90 minute score, there is a passing whiff of a theme or five bars go by without moaning Lisa Gerrard, gritty electronic processing and tribal percussion.

Enthusiasm is a wonderful thing, but consistently and almost comically over-selling something on the grounds that it's one rung up the 5,000 rung ladder from "absolute unmitigated stinking turd" really grinds my gears. Let's say it's better than the norm. Let's say it's a step in the right direction. Let's say it has redeeming features. Let's not pretend it's a complete overnight reversal of the last twenty years of Hollywood scoring trends and a completely unexpected concert-hall marvel that would have the ghost of Mozart weeping copious tears of joy at its unquestionable God-like magnificence.

And, Naota old friend... whilst I don't disagree with what you said... perhaps it wasn't the ideal time to say it... we are trying (for some bizarre reason) to reach out to this fellow... And in comes you, first words out of your mouth are "Listen, you pissant!"

I've missed you around these parts. :)

NaotaM

11-08-2011, 11:44 PM

And, Naota old friend... whilst I don't disagree with what you said... perhaps it wasn't the ideal time to say it... we are trying (for some bizarre reason) to reach out to this fellow... And in comes you, first words out of your mouth are "Listen, you pissant!"

I've missed you around these parts. :)

Unforunate timing. I may(no promises) have toned it down a bit if I'd seen you had posted first as I was in the process of typing, as you often do. *shakes fist* I can blame only my sub-standard typing speed. :(

hater

11-09-2011, 03:53 AM

Haha! He really gotta stop telling us some poxy rubbish score is the "reincarnation of Jerry Goldsmith" just because for fifteen seconds in the 90 minute score, there is a passing whiff of a theme or five bars go by without moaning Lisa Gerrard, gritty electronic processing and tribal percussion.

Enthusiasm is a wonderful thing, but consistently and almost comically over-selling something on the grounds that it's one rung up the 5,000 rung ladder from "absolute unmitigated stinking turd" really grinds my gears. Let's say it's better than the norm. Let's say it's a step in the right direction. Let's say it has redeeming features. Let's not pretend it's a complete overnight reversal of the last twenty years of Hollywood scoring trends and a completely unexpected concert-hall marvel that would have the ghost of Mozart weeping copious tears of joy at its unquestionable God-like magnificence.

And, Naota old friend... whilst I don't disagree with what you said... perhaps it wasn't the ideal time to say it... we are trying (for some bizarre reason) to reach out to this fellow... And in comes you, first words out of your mouth are "Listen, you pissant!"

I've missed you around these parts. :)

I�m just reminding everyone of more enjoyable music out there, thats all.btw ALAN SILVESTRI IS GONNA SCORE THE AVENGERS OMG!!!! If you excuse me...i�m having a nerdgasm.Just kidding.Or not. Who cares?
Any words on A Symphony of Hope? Really enjoyed it.Guess you don�t like all of it, but there are certain parts from Broughton and Davis that are really great.
Like you i�m a little bit dissapointed by TinTin and the lack of memorable Themes, though the movie is great.Score sounded more like a Best-Of Williams Compilation then everything else.Too Harry Pottery.Vertas The Race was much much better.
Ah Lalaland Records is releasing a 3cd set of Shirley Walkers Space Above and Beyond.Need everything from her. She was fantastic.Really miss her.
Still have high hopes for Old Republic.Nothing points to a dissapointment so far.If we can get 2 hours of greatness from the 5.5 hours of score that would be enough for me.
I think you dont understand that i always need NEW STUFF.I have heard the great scores of the past so often that i can play them in my brain at any time.can�t listen to them anymore. So if something new gives me the same feeling i makes me really happy.(but i gets old after that) Always have phases where i listen to a great new score so often that its nothing special anymore.Happened to Fracture after over 100 spins.And others.Anyway, the point is i need new stuff to keep my attention.And please no RC libary crap.Dont need a remake of the same score for the 1000th time.
Alright i need to end this the nurse is coming back.Cheers

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

my experience with filmscore forums is that if i�ll just post something about a score in a dry description, it will be ignored. but add a hefty dose of hyperbole and people will start to care.thats my way to get attention, getting people to know about scores i liked.you don�t have to take it 100% seriously.well, except for The Fellowship of the Ring.That WAS the second coming of Jesus Mozart.

tangotreats

11-09-2011, 10:07 AM

Fellowship was the most over-rated piece of music in history.

I haven't had a chance to survey Symphony Of Hope. I refuse to pirate it on ethical grounds, and I refuse to purchase it because I have very little faith that it will be decent. The Zimmer model doesn't work. If your intended end result is a coherent, symphonic work, you cannot get twenty people of vastly different backgrounds, techniques, and competence, to write fragments of music which are passed to an orchestrator. It doesn't work for a common film score, so it certainly won't work for a fully-fledged symphony.

Symphony Of Hope is a concept, not a symphony. It is a symbolic collaboration. From that perspective, I applaud it - but I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that those sensibilities have compromised quality.

herbaciak

11-09-2011, 05:55 PM

I haven't had a chance to survey Symphony Of Hope. I refuse to pirate it on ethical grounds, and I refuse to purchase it because I have very little faith that it will be decent.

It is decent. Actually it was huge surprise to me, especially because there are names like Bates there. But it's really solid piece of music. I was also surprised that it actually sounds coherent. Orchestrators did really good job on making it sound like piece of less than 5 people;). So yeah, it's definitely worth buying. Check one track at least. You won't help Haitians, but hey - you won't take anything from them either. And theer is a slight chance, that after listening to it, you'd actually like to give them some money:).

passed to an orchestrator.

To 15 orchestrators;).

And is this just me, or War Horse - I like it very much BTW - sounds pretty much... not Williams? I was thinking sometimes that it's maybe... Horner score? And while TinTin was 100% Williams, with War Horse I can't feel that.

tangotreats

11-09-2011, 08:44 PM

There are some parts of War Horse that sound perhaps uncharacteristic, but I wouldn't say it didn't sound like Williams. Every note sounds like Williams. Nobody else does it like he does.

Arial

11-09-2011, 08:57 PM

Indeed... Each time I try to whistle the "Raiders" theme, it's a mess.

jacksbrain

11-09-2011, 10:00 PM

And is this just me, or War Horse - I like it very much BTW - sounds pretty much... not Williams? I was thinking sometimes that it's maybe... Horner score? And while TinTin was 100% Williams, with War Horse I can't feel that.

I think that could happen to somebody, depending on what you're used to hear from Williams's work. For me I even found it's 100% Williams work, sometimes even more than Tintin since I'm not very used to hear his "jazzy" tracks like "The adventures of Tintin" because I don't use to listen his first works or Catch me if you can that could have a similar mood.
I hear Williams all around, not only in the orchestation, but the themes anc composition has a similar "lyrical" approach. It reminds me of Far and away or Saving private Ryan.

Not related: It's not "Tin Tin/TinTin", but "Tintin". I know for most Americans it's a complete stranger, but here in Europe "Tintin" have the same importance than X-Men / Superman / Batman / Spiderman... just trying to share the knowledge. XD

Arial

11-09-2011, 10:04 PM

Not related: It's not "Tin Tin/TinTin", but "Tintin". I know for most Americans it's a complete stranger, but here in Europe "Tintin" have the same importance than X-Men / Superman / Batman / Spiderman... just trying to share the knowledge. XD

Welcome, hermano ! ;): War Horse (2011) John Williams - Page 2 (http://forums.ffshrine.org/f92/war-horse-2011-john-williams-98061-post1839242/?highlight=#post1839242)

Believe me, I held my toungue this time. lol

JBarron2005

11-10-2011, 02:34 AM

I think War Horse sounds more like Williams when he scored The Patriot. Or at least that is what I think of when I hear it. It's Williams to me through and through. This is my favorite score of 2011 so far. It is so beautiful!

streichorchester

11-10-2011, 03:09 AM

War Horse has echoes of Thomas Newman, but that's probably just due to the Americana sound that these period pieces demand.

hater

11-10-2011, 03:25 AM

WildwoodPark

11-10-2011, 03:45 AM

I haven't heard War Horse yet waiting patiently for the CD to be released.

herbaciak

11-10-2011, 06:15 AM

Not related: It's not "Tin Tin/TinTin", but "Tintin". I know for most Americans it's a complete stranger, but here in Europe "Tintin" have the same importance than X-Men / Superman / Batman / Spiderman

I'm polish, and I couldn't care less for Tintin. Just saying;).

And it seems, that I just forgot how Williams sounds... Shame on me. But to be honest, there are only few scores from him, that I know very well, and liste to them on regular basis, for example Jurassic Park - probably my favourite score ever written. But War Horse is still damn good music. We needed something like taht:).

arthierr

11-10-2011, 08:18 PM

Gee, I think I struck a nerve. I have a question, and it is an honest question. Honestly! Do some of you realize just how pompous your posts read? Seriously.

Arthierr you are correct, a lot of people think some of the major players in this thread are arrogant; that you act like you are the Elite. They stopped coming around long ago. And yes, I have the balls to say what I think in a blunt way. But impolite? Let's just look at that for a moment.

I never called anyone a smartarse. I never called anyone else a troll for having a differing opinion. I never negated anyone else's comments as not worth the time to read. I never asked for a response just so I could have a good laugh at you.

Oh wait, all you oh so non-pompous guys did that. So who is being impolite here? I may be the only one willing to say so, but I am hardly the only one who thinks it. There are others on this forum who think as I do. It ain't just me.

I admit I expected nothing more than contempt for my bother. Heaven forbid some of you might take a moment and reflect before resorting to ridicule.

But we all DO agree on one thing. Time to move along. I have too full a life to waste any more time here, especially as no-one is willing to have a genuine discussion. So do give yourselves a good cheer on my behalf.

Ok, briefly, this post shows that:

1) You're completely unaware of your own behavior and the rudeness of it.

2) Now you act like you are a victim, and we are the bad guys, when you actually provoked the whole thing with an aggressive and dismissive post.

3) And you now have the impudence and / or the slyness to say that you simply tried to have a "genuine discussion" with us.

Given these elements, I can't but seriously doubt your good sense and / or your honesty, and your good manners. So I believe the best thing to do for you is to stop posting anything here until you've acquired a good deal of those three things. Perhaps then, and then ONLY, it could be possible to have a "genuine discussion" with you.

But before closing this post, I'll quickly try to answer your (rude) question: "Honestly! Do some of you realize just how pompous your posts read? Seriously."

Pompous, eh? What does this word even mean? My good friend Merriam-Webster tells me that this term basically has two meaning:

1) A negative one: having or exhibiting self-importance, arrogant.

2) A positive one: excessively elevated or ornate, relating to or suggestive of pomp or splendor, magnificent.

I guess your opinion bends towards the first meaning, because you're apparently only capable of seing the negative aspects of this thread (and perhaps of other things in life). But what if this thread COULD, at least a little, reflect the positive meaning of "pompous", that is, to display a certain deal of intelligence, culture, elevated ideas, interesting reflections, thoughtful opinions, inspired insights? (not including YOUR posts, of course) What if what YOU see as "pompous", with your petty and negative mind, could ACTUALLY be something of real value and worth some genuine appreciation?

I've seen many messages posted in this thread or sent by PM of people who tended to see this thread positively, as a real source of quality debates and great downloads. I tend to grant these people's opinion much more credits than yours, since most of them expressed themselves in an intelligent and respectful way, like real gentlemen (or ladies), contrary to you. You see, as I said before, all opinions aren't equal! *WHO* expressed them counts a lot in their value.

jacksbrain

11-10-2011, 08:36 PM

I'm polish, and I couldn't care less for Tintin. Just saying;)
Damn Polish people! you should spend more time with some Belgian comics! XD

Arial

11-10-2011, 08:46 PM

If I was this guy (GK), I'd feel honoured with so much replies. I said the discussion on music was flying too high for me, but you apparently don't resist with temptation with a troll, unfortunately. And I'm not saying he is, but that would be the same.

arthierr

11-10-2011, 08:56 PM

The key idea here is the disversity in sound. A good modern orchestral work should not be measured just its complexity but also in its use of different colors, different themes, different harmonies, different rhythms, etc. Form is not always the end goal.

One of the reasons my favorite Mozart piece is the Requiem is because it is just so colorful. But some people prefer subtlety, which is what the classical tradition was all about before Beethoven entered the scene and opera/ballet started to bleed into the conservatory. Similarly, when it comes to modern-ish American composers I prefer Hanson over other relatively more popular academic composers (Piston, Creston, Diamond, etc.) I find those other guys boring, despite how well-crafted their music is. You know who else found Hanson more interesting? John Williams.

Once you reach the era of Tchaikovsky and later Rachmaninov, Mahler, etc. the subtlety and complexity plays a back seat to pure emotion and color. They are all still present, just in different ratios. This is largely because the "purpose" behind the symphony changed from Haydn's "simple exercise in academics" to Beethoven's "message to the world."

That isn't to say there aren't some very colorful works out there that I find boring. Those works I find boring are largely because tradition and academic awareness were ignored. There has to be some of that classical complexity to keep the music grounded, so it can be easily understood. The most common example of this would be the form of the piece as ABA: A is the main idea, B supports it by contrasting it. The derivatives of this form include the usual sonata-allegro, rondo, scherzo, theme+variations. On a larger scale it indicates the use of a multi-movement work (Allegro, Adagio, Scherzo, Allegro is most common.) On a smaller scale it indicates the use of motives and variations to drive your basic ideas. If you just compose ABC DEF GHI then there is no message about the ideas in the form. Every new thing is just as important as the last thing. Remember that expression: if everyone is special, than no one is?

Using Conan as an example, you could rate each aspect of the score based on its aderehence to classicisms such as form, variation, etc. and then decide how much of that is sacrificed for the emotion of the moment, or the requirements of the drama. Overall you'd probably find Conan is much more emotional than complex, more romantic than classical, but still shares a lot of the complexities of classical music in the use of variations and motives.

It's difficult to think of an example of a film score that sacrifices emotion and drama in favor of complexity, or where classical idioms are are at war with romantic ones. I'd say Giacchino's Star Trek is a good example of a complex score where he tries to make everything a variation on a single idea, but it is so full of drama and isn't subtle at all, so the ratio still tips in favor of the romantic rather than the classical. But in the end I prefer the balanced Conan to the unbalanced Star Trek.

That's the Streich I used to know!

Excellent post, I quite agree with most of it. Although I have to precise that my use of the word "complexity" was very broad here; it didn't only refer to form and structure, but to a large array of things that notably include colors, themes, harmonies, rhythms, etc., as I said here:

I rather believe that there's a confusion with the term "intellectual". So let me clarify: what I meant when I used this term here was roughly equivalent to complexity, in terms of melody, counterpoint, harmony, chord progression, rhythm, form, structure, orchestration, etc. The more complex a piece of music is, according to these criterions, the more "intellectual" it is to me.

Fellowship was the most over-rated piece of music in history.

Quite true. Fellowship is incredibly over-rated indeed. Certainly one of those cases where the hype of a movie / book rubs off on the score...

Faleel

11-10-2011, 09:17 PM

Um no....

Vinphonic

11-10-2011, 09:31 PM

I love LotR. The final part of Fellowship with the humming of the shire theme always brings me to tears. I will not say it is greater than Star Wars or Conan or more lyrical and beautiful than Legends of the Fall but it is still one of my favorite fantasy scores. I even enjoy the action cues (even though the orchestra is underused most of the time) and if nothing else, it is an incredible thematic score with themes and motifs for almost every culture, faction or character in the movies/books.

Arial

11-10-2011, 10:19 PM

I sold the LotR scores as fast as I bought these (count a couple of weeks).

arthierr

11-10-2011, 10:47 PM

Over-rated doesn't mean "bad", of course. It just means that the ecstatic praise those scores got were IMO way beyond their actual value. And Hater's comment just confirmed this again.

I already said that these scores are indeed good scores, with a great deal of themes and some pretty good ones too, even if I get bored by them really fast. But when I see what was actually made, and imagine what COULD have been made, for such a once-in-a-lifetime scoring opportunity, I can't help being very disappointed. I sometimes tried to imagine what Horner in the west or Hisaishi in the east could have composed here, for instance, since I consider them as much better composers than Shore. Quite an inspiring idea...

Yen_

11-10-2011, 11:37 PM

Thanks arthierr for this lovely gentle score.

[QUOTE=arthierr;1153880]I'd like to promote a very fine score I often listen to :

BINCHOU-TAN OST - Taku Iwasaki (thanks to kinslayer6)
Bincho - tan Anime OST ( similar to Uematsu orchestral) (Thread 51361)

Iwasaki managed to compose for this anime a superb orchestral score, gracious, charming and relaxing. There's not much action in this one, due to the context, but if you like poetic and tender music, you'll be satisfied.

tangotreats

11-11-2011, 01:23 AM

Yen! Are you all right? Are you still in the UK? I feared that you may have been in trouble after the Earthquake. It's good to see you're still around. :)

Binchou-tan is one of my all-time favourites. It was completely outside of Iwasaki's established style... and yet right from the first note, you know that no other composer could have scored that beautiful story with so much poetry and grace. The anime itself is just lovely - it's a simple story about nothing more than the glory of being alive. The jaded, cynical Western mind is so warped and worn out that it is always waiting for a betrayal or a villain or a terrible tragedy... but this story is so much more pure than that. The world badly needs delicacy, purity, and love. Perhaps it sounds cliched, but this story cleanses my soul. It's a real tear-jerker and that's in no small part due to the score. I believe it to be Iwasaki's magnum opus.

If your life is going to hell, or you're upset, or it's just cold and miserable outside and you're feeling the winter blues... set aside two hours, and watch Binchou-tan from start to finish. It's a very short series but oh-so-perfect. It plays like an idle daydream you dream whilst sleeping in the warm sunshine.

Sirusjr

11-11-2011, 01:37 AM

Can someone re-upload Binchou-Tan? All this talk and the links on the thread seem to be dead :(

jawswords

11-11-2011, 02:00 AM

Best Orchestral Symphonic film music. Great brassy patriotic and stormy film music collection.

01 Wagner-Bernstein - The Ride Of The Valkyries.mp3
02 Wagner-Karajan - Der Fliegende Hollander.mp3
03 Lifeforce 19 Horny Alien-London Burns.mp3
04 Lifeforce 22 Web of Destiny, Pt. 2.mp3
05 Judge Dredd 47 Troops_In_The_Streets.mp3
06 RFOnlline 6_2.Battle01.mp3
07 Outbreak - A Little Resistance.mp3
08 Aliens 13 Ripley's Rescue(edit).mp3
09 Reign_Of_Fire02_-_Enter_The_Dragon.mp3
10 First Blood Part II 11 Bowed Down.mp3
11 Universal Soldier - 05 Grand Canyon.mp3
12 Starcraft 22 Terran Victory.mp3
13 Das Boot 05 U97.mp3
14 Tombstone 05 - Tombstone.mp3
15 Star Wars - The Throne Room & End Title(edit).mp3

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQRBQMPX)

Vinphonic

11-11-2011, 04:04 PM

@tangotreats

What you described with Binchou-tan is the exact reason why I absolutly love ARIA. The simple things in life are often overlooked in our modern times and the appreciation of simply being alive and a part of this world for just merely a few decades should be something to be amazed by. Neo-Venecia is like an utopian society with all the bad things removed that plagued humanity since the dawn of time, greed and violence. But our modern times are not about enjoying life to the fullest, being creative or thinking about our people; it is about greed, profit and resources which are the cause for starvation and war everday. With our ignorance and arrogance we let millions of people die everday, we feed our cows with their food, we drive our cars with their oil and we gain profit with their lives. The perverse state the world is in today is almost impossible to bear if you actually see what madness goes on everyday.

Our society is all about the moment and not about preserving the future. Community, friendship and love should be the things to pursue, not money and status. Money itself is already a tough subject because theoretically it has basically become worthless in our day and age.
We already produce more than we will ever need and we could feed the entire population of the planet with ease, but instead we throw away over half of what we produce. Even people themselves have become cold and heartless (I would even say artless). The businessman and the banker have become a rolemodel for an entire generation and greed is now glorified and encouraged. The fact that everyone only cares about himself is disturbing, because we are first and foremost social creatures.

I could go on and on but I think Charlie Chaplin said it best with his speech from The Great Dictator. We still haven't learned from history and most people don't want to understand. I hate to say this because it sounds very cliche but the way western societies are headed can only lead into chaos. If not something groundbreaking or worldchanging will happen very soon, I'm afraid we will see our societies collapse right before our eyes (The US is basically collapsing right as we speak).

tangotreats

11-13-2011, 02:25 AM

Much to be said to the above... (In the general context of absolute agreement.)

Just passing through this evening, but have some goodies for the thread...

Various Artists
Mario And Sonic At The London 2012 Olympic Games

Download MAS_LONDON.rar from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/RGQBJIEN/MAS_LONDON.rar_links)

1. Main Theme
2. Main Title
3. Start
4. 1st Ceremony
5. 2nd and 3rd Ceremonies
6. Outside Ceremony
7. Athletic Ceremony
8. Athletic Record
9. Athletic Seal Finish
10. Result
11. Replay
12. End Credits

[My rip. Digital extraction from Wii game disc. All cues were stored at a sample rate of 48khz except the end credits, which were at 32khz. All are resampled to 44.1khz for consistency in this release. LAME 3.98.4 at -V0.]

Well, it's here - I think I'm the first person to rip this game! I downloaded a 5gb ISO this evening just to get to the music. Now, that's dedication. The Mario and Sonic franchise has generated some fun scores so far - Masamichi Amano orchestrated the first (with the inevitable Giant Robo vs Super Mario Brothers sound that really, really worked) and recorded it with the Hollywood Studio Symphony Orchestra. For the second, Nintendo hired veteran American orchestrator Larry Hochman and moved to Amsterdam for the recording session.

I'm not sure where this one was recorded, to be honest. It sounds like Hochman again, but the orchestra sounds a lot bigger which cannot be sneezed at. Perhaps it's the Dutch ensemble again but with boosted numbers. We have twenty-odd minutes (with looping, mind you) of delightfully chipper orchestral score to get into here. It's lovely stuff - nothing new, nothing unexpected... just that infectious, cheerful Mario sound mixed in with some ceremonial grandeur appropriate to London's upcoming time in the spotlight.

Most of the cues are short - under a minute - but one takes what one can get. They're very enjoyable.

And, of course, there's the ubiquitous End Credits suite - six minutes of pure joy, giving the main theme a nice, symphonic workout, for those who turn up their nose at the orchestral / pop / disco arrangement it receives as the main theme - you'd expect me to instinctively hate anything with a beat, but God help me, it's so much fun I just love it... It has a lovely romantic middle section, before leading back into a strident, brassy statement of the main theme again - with rolling timpani, powerful brass, soaring strings, and trilling woodwinds - just like any self respecting finale should have.

By the way, I also have no idea who the composers are - from the sound of things, I would guess that it is the same team as the previous instalment - but until I have this confirmed I would rather not spread around conjecture labelled as fact and so have left the tags as "Various Artists".

Have fun, folks. :)

dekamaster2

11-13-2011, 01:38 PM

Thanks a lot!

miklos

11-13-2011, 01:52 PM

KING KONG (1933)
Max Steiner
Original Motion Picture Scoundtrack

Has anyone access to the 1999 Turner/Rhino release of the original soundtrack?

Part One presented a condensed version of the movie story & Part Two had 24 minutes of the film score.

testkov

11-14-2011, 04:08 AM

Bincho-Tan OST @ 320kbps - Multiupload.com (http://www.multiupload.com/F6CYQT4SNN)

Vinphonic

11-17-2011, 01:06 AM

The Recording of The Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Special Orchestra CD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKYn4ACAd7s)

We certainly have come a long way from the original chip tune to this masterpiece. The fact that the opening fanfare is played here in it's full glory makes it the best rendition of the Zelda Theme for me. A shame the glorious Ending Theme from A Link to the Past has yet to be played by a live orchestra. I wonder if there will be another Symphony CD with the symphonic movements of A Link to the Past and Majora's Mask because it would be a massive dissapointment to hear those two only as live recordings.

Faleel

11-17-2011, 01:09 AM

it would be a massive dissapointment to hear those two only as live recordings.

A bit off topic, but did you download my Stereo version of the live recordings?

Vinphonic

11-17-2011, 01:16 AM

Yes, and while the quality is an improvement over the earlier rips, the audience is still impossible to ignore and takes the enjoyment out of the music. A shame because your effort is greatly appreciated. The smaller cues are fine though.

chancth

11-19-2011, 01:00 PM

Many thanks. Still no idea who is the composer?

tangotreats

11-19-2011, 08:27 PM

Chancth: The composer of what? :)

And, here's another little thing that I know a few people have been waiting for... I certainly have!

KOSUKE YAMASHITA
Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger Otakara Sound Box 3 (aka, OST 3)

Not my rip. MP3 @ 320kbps. Drama tracks removed.

Download KY-KSG-OST3.rar from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/RZVXUZPC/KY-KSG-OST3.rar_links)

In keeping with the traditional Super Sentai release schedule, the third soundtrack contains music recorded specifically for the Gokaiger theatrical film. The second soundtrack release is character songs only, and the first (containing the first batch of score from the TV series) has been posted elsewhere in this thread.

Please note that the Sentai soundtracks are bulked out with cheesy radio drama segments. They contain no music, and make no sense unless you speak Japanese - so in the interests of saving time and hard disc space, I have exorcised these from my upload. If you want them, they're easy enough to find. Just to clarify again for the benefit of those who are as we speak concocting a "F**k off elitist snob for arbitrarily removing music you don't like from the album" response, I have not removed any music - just the radio drama.

As far as the music goes, well, it's another symphonic Yamashita corker. This album has about 18 minutes of completely straight orchestral score, another twenty minutes of stuff with electric guitars and percussion and what have you (which is, it must be said, HEAPS of fun) and a few theme songs.

Particularly of note is a magnificent (and long, by Sentai standards, at just over three minutes) action cue in track 31. The track contains two cues; the first is a heroic grand finale piece which gives Yamashita's pirate theme a nice workout. The second is a wonderfully suspenseful action piece which brings out the full orchestra in shameless fashion, building anticipation and actually developing like so few action cues do these days, finally exploding into a brassy, fanfare-esque major key rendition of the main theme and finishing off with a flourish of rolling timpani and clashing cymbals.

It's really hard to believe that this stuff is from Power Rangers.

But then, as we seem to say quite frequently in this thread, it is Japanese... the country where you don't even blink when a silly kids show about brightly coloured merchandising opportunities receives a full-blooded 60 piece orchestral score. This is far, far better music than the show has any right to. Yamashita always brings a touch of class to whatever he's working on, of course. Here, he's working within the "house style" of Sentai and at the same time writing music that's all at once wonderfully over the top, thoroughly enjoyable, very grown up, and meticulously constructed.

Enjoy.

Soundtracks 4+5 (which are released together as a two disc set) are out in December and traditionally feature masses more splendid score from the TV series. They usually leave out the good stuff to the end. ;)

dekamaster2

11-19-2011, 08:59 PM

It's really hard to believe that this stuff is from Power Rangers.

This is NOT Power Rangers!

arthierr

11-19-2011, 10:07 PM

Great, I didn't know the last Gokaiger was out! Thanks a lot for this and also for Mario And Sonic (I wouldn't have known the existence of this score if you hadn't posted it here). I just listened to a few Gokaiger tracks for now, and they sound quite good, the usual music-under-steroids stuff you can find in most Super Sentai scores, but with Yamashita's classy and virtuosic touch as a plus factor!

Now, a recommendation: I just noticed that this RARE album I searched for years has been posted recently. Grab it NOW! Credits to wimpel69.

Four extended suites from John Scott's scores for the TV documentary PARC OCEANIQUE COUSTEAU.
Symphonic television music at its best!

Enjoy!

Tracks:
The Blue Whale
1. Dominion Of The Blue Whale (09:48)
2. Cathedral Of The Blue Whale (05:17)
Fire, Water, Life
3. Prelude (02:41)
4. Volcanos (00:50)
5. Octopus (01:32)
6. Groupas Courtship Ritual (01:39)
7. Divers (00:55)
8. Whales (03:02)
Journey To The Depths Of The Ocean
9. Organ Of The Universe (02:12)
10. Approaching The Water Planet (04:32)
11. Descent From The Ocean Surface (02:04)
12. Sharks Gathering (01:15)
13. The Deepest Caves (02:27)
14. Little Monsters (03:11)
15. Shark Attack (00:51)
16. Underwater Habitat (01:35)
17. Submarine Archaelogy (01:16)
Music For Shipwrecks
18. Toll The Bell (03:31)
19. Calypso In Storm (01:22)
20. The Edmund Fitzgerald (04:14)
21. The Empress Of Ireland (02:57)
22. In Paradisum (03:07)
(Total Time: 60:18)

Music Composed and Conducted by John Scott
Played by The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra & The Berlin Radio Concert Orchestra
Source: JOS Records JSCD 106

Format: mp3 / 320kbps (CBR) / Stereo
Encoder: Lame 3.98, via DB Poweramp Batch Converter
File Size (RAR): 134 MB / no pass

Thread 98909

tangotreats

11-19-2011, 10:24 PM

This is NOT Power Rangers!

It is as far as 99% of the people on this planet are aware. That statement was made for ironic intent; as any regular reader of this thread (or any individual who knows me or has followed my posts here over the last three years) would know.

Perhaps some gratitude - rather than passive-aggressive nitpicking over one sentence in my description - would be better received.

Arthierr: You're more than welcome, sir! There will be two more discs of it by this time next month. :D

As for Mario and Sonic, I'm glad you're enjoying it. Lens of Truth first introduced it to the thread with the previous instalment - like you, I wouldn't have given it a second thought or even considered for the briefest moment that it might have some good music. I know the orchestral portions are usually not lengthy - but for me, the End Credits suites alone from these type of scores are worth their weight in gold. I can't understand the financial logic in hiring an orchestra to record ten minutes of music - and giving over half of that over to the credits suite which 99% of people will completely ignore... but hey, it's Japan. The Final Fantasy filler games get the same treatment.

arthierr

11-19-2011, 10:57 PM

Perhaps it's a sort of reward for having finished the game. The victorious and deserving player is granted the finest, classiest, most expensive kind of music: Orchestral Music. ;) This could actually motivate some people to finish the game. I remember having played some games most exclusively to listen to their orchestral scores, like the Wing Commander games, for instance.

Regarding the Super Sentai / Power Rangers difference, what is it, actually? I only happen to know that the great original music has been replaced by the horrid Trevor Rabin garbage, but could there be other differences?

tangotreats

11-19-2011, 11:24 PM

How to turn Sentai into Power Rangers:

a) Remove the plot.
b) Remove Japanese actors.
c) Write cheap, crap story vaguely related to the original Japanese one.
d) Hire third rate Aussie, Canadian, or American actors to provide plot exposition in between the Japanese effects sequences.
e) Replace score with shitty "muscular" electronic/RC crap and needle-drop rock songs.

And now, some more music.

TOSHIHIKO SAHASHI
Sacred Seven

MP3 (LAME 3.98.4 -V0): Download TS-SS(NEWRIP-MP3).rar from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/OS1EDY0Z/TS-SS(NEWRIP-MP3).rar_links)
FLAC (with LOG): Part 1 Download TS-SSFLAC.part1.rar from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/51BSYO6E/TS-SSFLAC.part1.rar_links) Part 2 Download TS-SSFLAC.part2.rar from Mirrorcreator - Upload files to multiple file sharing sites (http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/0IVFBXKA/TS-SSFLAC.part2.rar_links)

Yes, I know I've posted this before. This is a new rip. My first rip was made on a laptop in a hotel room in Tokyo, and sneakily uploaded via the hotel's internet connection. This rip was made back at home on my desktop PC. I still can't find the problems that are allegedly on my first rip, but I have no problem doing the job again; besides, it has given me the opportunity to improve the tagging! This will be joined tomorrow by a FLAC upload, a nicer front cover scan, and a full booklet scan. :)

JonC

11-20-2011, 05:39 AM

Ever wonder what would happen if you tried to condense your music collection to one disc? Here's my result. (Thread 98991)
JonC

dekamaster2

11-20-2011, 10:48 AM

It is as far as 99% of the people on this planet are aware. That statement was made for ironic intent; as any regular reader of this thread (or any individual who knows me or has followed my posts here over the last three years) would know.

Perhaps some gratitude - rather than passive-aggressive nitpicking over one sentence in my description - would be better received.

Thanks for the soundtrack, tangotreats, and I'm sorry. I know that your commentary was ironic, but when i read this sort of phrase, it automatically angers me. One more time, sorry.

Tintin30

11-20-2011, 01:18 PM

The Science Fiction Album
by The City of Prague Orchestra
http://www.moviemusic.com/imgcover/285/sciencefiction.gif
MP3 320
Deposit Files (http://depositfiles.com/files/uiwb4l49n)

Tracklisting :

CD 1
1. 2001 A Space Odyssey
2. Aliens
3. Sound Effect The Nostromo
4. Alien
5. A.I.
6. Armageddon
7. Sound Effect Apollo 13 Lift-Off
8. Apollo 13
9. Back to the Future
10. Battle Beyond the Stars
11. Battlestar Galactica
12. The Black Hole
13. Contact
14. Capricorn One
15. Close Encounters of the Third Kind
16. The Day the Earth Stood Still
17. Dune
CD 2
1. Moonraker
2. Robocop
3. Silent Running
4. Sound Effect Organism
5. Species
6. Stargate
7. Starship Troopers
8. Starman
9. Star Trek (TV)
10. Star Trek TMP
11. Klingon Attack
12. Sound Effect Warp Drive
13. Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan
14. Star Trek Deep Space Nine (TV)
15. Star Trek Generations
16. Star Trek IV The Voyage Home
CD 3
1. Galaxy Quest
2. Sound Effect Dogfight in Space
3. Enemy Mine
4. Ghostbusters
5. Gremlins
6. Heavy Metal
7. Independence Day
8. E.T.
9. Judge Dredd
10. The Last Starfighter
11. Lifeforce
12. Sound Effect Crash Landing
13. Lost in Space
14. Mars Attacks
15. The Matrix
16. Predator
17. The Right Stuff
CD 4
1. Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country
2. Sound Effect Transporter Crew
3. Star Trek Deep Space Nine (TV)
4. Star Trek First Contact
5. Star Wars
6. The Empire Strikes Back
7. The Empire Strikes Back
8. Return of the Jedi
9. Sound Effect Battle Stations
10. Star Wars The Phantom Menace
11. The Flag Parade
12. Anakin's Theme
13. The Adventures of Jar Jar
14. Duel of the Fates
15. The Time Machine
16. Things To Come
17. The Thing from Another World
18. War of the Worlds
19. When Worlds Collide
20. Total Recall
21. You Only Live Twice
22. Superman

arthierr

11-20-2011, 06:07 PM

Thanks for the improved Sacred Seven, Tango! Good to see you posting a lot recently!

Tintin30: welcome and very nice compilation you posted. Thank you :) It actually features many tracks coming from my favorite scores, so let's see how the CPO handles them! In the past, I've heard them doing some quite pleasant renditions of some scores, or oppositely some terrible ones (Glory), but globally, they can do some pretty listenable and enjoyable stuff. And anyway the fact of listening to alternative versions of your favorite tracks is a great pleasure in itself.

JonC: quite an interesting experiment indeed, pretty similar to the origins of this thread in this regard. Since there aren't so many tracks (since it's album size), it would have been a very good idea to actually explain why each track is so important, special, meaningful or just very enjoyable to you. Such commentaries can greatly raise the interest and relevance of making such compilations.

tangotreats

11-20-2011, 07:09 PM

Added FLAC links to Sacred Seven post on the previous page. Logs included for those who find such things colossally important.

dekamaster2: No apology necessary - in fact, I owe you one. I'm sorry I went off at you. I was expecting another "Power Rangers is shit, Super Sentai is so much better! You idiots don't know what you're talking about!" post - implying a meaning I had not intended. I have the greatest respect for the Sentai shows - and I am fascinated by the contrasting approaches taken by Japan and the West to essentially the same material. The Japanese view is something extravagant, and emotional, with a larger-than-life symphonic score to support it... Power Rangers view it as a muscular fighting show for teenage boys with cheap rock/metal music. Dekaranger's grand finale was about love and friendship; a moving reunion between comrades - normally stoic male characters openly wept to a stately, nostalgic orchestral theme that built to a rousing fanfare close.

Power Rangers ends with some tacky kids sharing an ironic joke together, fifteen seconds of shit rock music, and that's that.

dekamaster2

11-20-2011, 08:30 PM

Apology accepted, my Whovian friend. Since we're at it, have someone posted the Gokaiger Goseiger Super Sentai 199 Hero Daikessen soundtrack?

tangotreats

11-20-2011, 08:44 PM

Yep, Arthierr posted it a little while ago... Now searching for link...

Edit: Here it is, about half way down page 319. :)

http://forums.ffshrine.org/f92/big-orchestral-action-music-thread-57893/319.html

darkmech

11-20-2011, 09:01 PM