Rap Music, why is it hated? [Archive] - Page 5

Ero51on

01-02-2009, 04:35 PM

My answer is simple. There is a difference between "rap" and "hip-hop".
Rap has become synonymous with the mindless phenomenon of "Getting crunk" Yelling the same phrase over and over, over a repetitive and unoriginal beat that has been sampled to hell and back and is completely unoriginal in every way, anyone who feels that requires "talent" hasn't opened up fruity loops or any other basic electronic music sampling and selected the automated presets and watched a shit excuse for music to be made for them.

"Hip-hop" on the other hand, has it's share of depth, musical talent, and lyrical prowess. You will also find that most underground hip-hop artists (and i suppose you can call it rap, and call them rappers if you like) despise the materialistic scene that rap has become in the mainstream. It has abandoned all sense of being a poetic art-form. It's become conceited and used as a platform to sell a fucking shirt from your new clothing line or to launch a damn energy drink or to have your own flavor of vitamin water.

I suppose my arguement stands as such:
I enjoy quite a bit of underground hip-hop by various artists but i cannot tolerate the mindless mainstream rap.
And NO i don't prefer underground hip-hop because it's the cool thing to do, and i don't bag on mainstream because the bandwagon does, it's just utter SHIT.

I prefer to listen to hip-hop artists who actually have lyrical prowess and discuss social commentary, flaws in goverment and social conformity, those who acknowledge their mentors, discuss the beauty and agony of the world and society we live in. Not these garbage Kanye West fucks who bitch and fucking moan when they don't get a grammy they feel they are "entitled" to.
That fucker is incapable of producing a tolerable beat that isn't sampled from a song that was previously successful in another genre before he decided to fucking rap over it.

/end rant.

fastidious percolator

01-04-2009, 12:40 AM

Not these garbage Kanye West fucks who bitch and fucking moan when they don't get a grammy they feel they are "entitled" to.

I like his shades, though. ~

Anyways, this thread is still getting to long and to pretty much nowhere, but HERE (http://www.divshare.com/download/6229731-9bd)'s a little mix for solis particularly, it contains a good bit of some of my favourite rap and hip-hop tracks, try to enjoy it I'd say. :D

adidas_fran

01-10-2009, 02:51 AM

adidas_fran

01-10-2009, 02:54 AM

I like his shades, though. ~

Anyways, this thread is still getting to long and to pretty much nowhere, but HERE (http://www.divshare.com/download/6229731-9bd)'s a little mix for solis particularly, it contains a good bit of some of my favourite rap and hip-hop tracks, try to enjoy it I'd say. :D

Thanks for the music man.

Tchesco

01-10-2009, 03:13 AM

The new Kanye West album is horrible. The last one was great though.

RagnaBlade47

01-10-2009, 04:09 AM

Reasons Why I Don't Like Rap:

1. I'm a person of color (aka Black) therefor everyone who sees me with headphones on or catches me silently mouthing lyrics, auto-thinks: He must me be singing/ listening to rap.
2. I'm not going to sit here and claim to know all there is to know about rap music, because I would be lying, but the rap music that seems to get popular in these here United States always seems to be of the, "I'm a gangsta thug!" variety.
3. Everyone in my family/ workplace/ neighborhood/ face, loves the stuff to death and when you hear to much of something it grates on your nerves like cheese threw a OXO grater...

I do like Japanese and Korean rap tho', yes I am a nerd and I love it, even though Korean rap is starting to sound more and more American... Plus, a lot of Japanese rappers, not all, seem to sing in their songs as well as fluidly rap.

M.O.V.E is my favorite band and they combine Pop and Rap with Trance, an excellent combo!

Tchesco

01-10-2009, 05:53 AM

My favorite rappers are:
Lupe Fiasco
Roots
Blackalicious
DJ Quik (Tonite is a great song)
Dr. Dre
Ice Cube (Today was a good day)
The (old) Kanye West
Mostly late 80s early 90s rap
I thought that Jay-Z working with Linkin Park was great

I'm also black, and I usually listen to rap on the side, although I enjoy the genre. I pretty much listen to everything - rock, rap, world, electronic, reggae.... (except country/classical)

TeknoBlade

01-10-2009, 08:15 AM

Withope

01-11-2009, 11:31 AM

fastidious percolator

01-11-2009, 11:56 AM

Teknoblade, I'm dissapointed that you think that way. :o

Withope, that is indeed a neat list you got there,
especially Cage, DJ Shadow, Prefuse 73, RJD2, Madlib, Thavius Beck, Buck 65, Kid Koala, Giant Panda, The Herbaliser, Flying Lotus and Blue Sky Black Death are ALL artists I'd recommend to everyone. :D
Only artist missing from that potential line-up would be Black Milk, but see, that says enough: there really is a grand amount of awesome rap and hip-hop artists out there. <3

Thanks for the music man.

No problem, I might as well type out the tracklist 'cause now I want Tekno to go check it out. :p

(mind you, artists like Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Snoop Dogg and NWA could probably be labeled with the sillier gangsta rap, BUT I still think those songs are just such solid tracks, I wanted to include them eitherway!)

01. Free The Robots - Diary
02. Cannibal Ox - Ox Out The Cage
03. De La Soul - Me Myself and I
04. Combat Wombat - Corruption Dub
05. Quasimoto - Basic Instinct
06. The Herbaliser - Road of Many Signs
07. Mars Black - Bazzaro World
08. Cage - Among The Sleep
09. Ol' Dirty Bastard - Hippa To Da Hoppa
10. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony - Ecstacy
11. MC 900 Ft. Jesus - If I Only Had A Brain
12. Dosh - My Girls Ex-car
13. Snoop Dogg - Who Am I (What's My Name)
14. RJD2 - June
15. Thavius Beck - '98
16. NWA - Straight Outta Compton

Tchesco

01-11-2009, 07:07 PM

Listen to
1. Ice Cube - Today Was A good Day
2. Warren G - Regulate
3. Lupe Fiasco - Kick Push
4. Blackalicious - First In Flight
5. Kanye West - Big Brother
There are a bunch of other songs, but I'm blanking on them.

discodan

01-12-2009, 07:12 PM

It is true that some artists say some stupid things. Today I had a song by Snoop Dogg in my head that says "... coast to coast, L.A. to Chicago." I thought about the lyrics and thought, "what an idiot."

BUT I still love rap music.

um...

that was originally taken from the Sade song, Smooth Operator.... They both go on to say other cities.... i don't think he or she meant the coast ended at chicago....

nice try though

Tchesco

01-15-2009, 03:14 AM

My favorite rap is from the 90s. Although there have recently been some great songs released, today's rap can't compare with A Tribe Called Quest, Roots, 2Pac, Biggy, Ice Cube, and all of the other 90s influential rap artists.

sphinx162

01-15-2009, 08:01 AM

I don't hate rap, i just don't like it. Like country, becuase of the people who i was around, i grew up listening to a lot of it. It became unbearable. When i switched over to rock and metal, my mind was blown by how different it was. Rap, now, it all sounds the same to me. You don't get anything really original anymore.

Withope

01-15-2009, 08:43 AM

Withope, that is indeed a neat list you got there,
especially Cage, DJ Shadow, Prefuse 73, RJD2, Madlib, Thavius Beck, Buck 65, Kid Koala, Giant Panda, The Herbaliser, Flying Lotus and Blue Sky Black Death are ALL artists I'd recommend to everyone. :D
Only artist missing from that potential line-up would be Black Milk, but see, that says enough: there really is a grand amount of awesome rap and hip-hop artists out there. <3

No problem, I might as well type out the tracklist 'cause now I want Tekno to go check it out. :p

(mind you, artists like Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Snoop Dogg and NWA could probably be labeled with the sillier gangsta rap, BUT I still think those songs are just such solid tracks, I wanted to include them eitherway!)

01. Free The Robots - Diary
02. Cannibal Ox - Ox Out The Cage
03. De La Soul - Me Myself and I
04. Combat Wombat - Corruption Dub
05. Quasimoto - Basic Instinct
06. The Herbaliser - Road of Many Signs
07. Mars Black - Bazzaro World
08. Cage - Among The Sleep
09. Ol' Dirty Bastard - Hippa To Da Hoppa
10. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony - Ecstacy
11. MC 900 Ft. Jesus - If I Only Had A Brain
12. Dosh - My Girls Ex-car
13. Snoop Dogg - Who Am I (What's My Name)
14. RJD2 - June
15. Thavius Beck - '98
16. NWA - Straight Outta Compton

I will have to check out Black Milk, and yes there is quite the good amount of hip hop out today. i'll have to check some of those songs from your track list there as well.

TwistedReality77

01-16-2009, 11:22 PM

Because allot of it is immature and nasty. Strangely enough, plenty of rock, metal and electronic music can be just as bad but nobody complains. -shrugs-

It's probably because the nasty stuff is the mainstream/most popular and most people assume it's all like that. The other genres have more popular bands with mainstream appeal, if that makes any sense.

Serpent01

01-19-2009, 06:54 AM

Its hated becouse they mostly hear rap from mainstream and they judge all of rap from that, also they dont really understand it all to well.

Tchesco

01-19-2009, 07:04 AM

Its hated because they mostly hear rap from mainstream and they judge all of rap from that

Exactly, the mainstream rap is drowning out real rap.

anguirus

01-23-2009, 03:15 AM

I don't like rap, because straight up, I hate the lyrics. I mean, osme of it is okay, like "I Wanna LOVE You" by Akon. Which leads to another point. For someone who just straight up hates Vulgar Language (I don't mind the occasional hateful rage swears), it is used for no damn reason. And if you can't listen to "Bad Words", but like Rap, too bad, because now half the song is either edited out or blanked. Tenacious D is hilarious when they use it, because it is a comedy band (Who happens to kick considerable amounts of ass), but when everyone thinks that hardcore equals 5 FPM (Fucks per Minute), then you know something is wrong. Especially with people apparently trying to one up eachother on the FPM every day.

And last point, I swear, is that timeless word. You know the one. So how come if I see someone at my school walkin' down the hall singing a song with the Special Word, all of a sudden every black person within the School cares, and thinks that they're a racist fag. But listen to their music, and listen to how many damn times they say it. Just listen.

anguirus

01-23-2009, 03:16 AM

If that wasn't long enough for you, make a thread about country, let's see how long that is.

KREAYSHAWN

01-23-2009, 04:21 AM

popular hip hop is a small subset of all hip hop though. saying it's all bad on the basis of a few popular acts is like saying all rock music sucks because you don't like sum 41, who are inarguably rubbish and only write songs about farts.

Princess Zakuraa

01-31-2009, 11:32 PM

I agree with you ud�. I hate certain rap groups, and since I looked into many of them I tend to hate them all.

Dev/Null

02-04-2009, 02:45 AM

Not sure if D�lek got a mention in this thread, but thats an example of the hip hop artists I'm into. Ya know, when it's actually meaningful, and or social/political, not to mention experimental with sounds. Someone mentioned Sage Francis, as well as Slug, whom are also the shit. And who doesn't like Run DMC or the Beasties?

But yeah, its a shame that a majority of it is all "bitches and money". But to me, every..EVERY genre has a few good ones, and a ton of shitty shit.

"Exactly, the mainstream rap is drowning out real rap."

^This

Reio

02-06-2009, 07:02 AM

fastidious percolator

02-07-2009, 06:10 PM

Not sure if D�lek got a mention in this thread,

I quoted myself mentioning D�lek a couple of times. :'D

But seriously, if you'd listen to music like that or Blue Sky Black Death for example, hip hop songs with a completely opposite approach to the genre than ~the mainstream rap artists do~.. well then I'd just ignore what's crap and just love what I love. <3

jkr2krz

03-03-2009, 03:28 AM

I have tried to avoid this thread for a bit now, but I will have to start reading from the start, because now I just itch to post, for now I will say this...

As with any act once things go "main stream" it's soul and overall talent level goes down FAST. Rare is the act/group/band etc that keeps it "real" once their name is gone mainstream, Lil Wayne, Kanye West, Jay-Z I hope acts like this are not what people in general actually consider to be real "rap/hiphop". Rarely have any mainstream hiphop acts/rappers kept any shred of actual talent (if any was had to begin with) or soul for their act once they became famous.

While on the subject, idiots like Souljah boi/boy (w/e the f***) have no place in any genre of music, let alone you tube (which seems to be his favorite play ground)

Now off to read the previous 41 pages.

BTW I do realize what songs are showing up in my LAST.FM sig, but BTNH is far from being idiotic.

Withope

03-18-2009, 06:49 AM

fastidious percolator

03-22-2009, 11:41 AM

Withope, I'm currently rediscovering the band Scratch Perverts, but somehow turntablism music like that, I've always looked at it differently than hip-hop and rap music!

And well, for me this thread is done. :p I've said enough methinks and mentioned many neat artists, so ta-dah~

Koyangi

03-22-2009, 04:38 PM

The word "rap" stems from "rapping"

Rap = Rhythmic African Poetry, which many people do not know about in these times.

Also I find it quite ironic about your first statement

Rap has lost its meaning.

No offense (:

HumanHighway

03-25-2009, 02:11 AM

What i HATE about Hip Hop and Rap is the attitude, lifestyle and arrogance of a lot of the people at the forefront of the genre. Why do you have to boast in your music? Why is it impossible to make a song without some kind of absurd self referencing? Why do you write lyrics with a simple A/B rhyme style to a 5 second/2 bar repeated loop? Why do you have to 'retire' before reaching 30? Why is it considered a 'game' which you either win or lose? All of these things are pathetic and detestable.

Anyway, i actually think that Hip Hop and Rap has a broader palate than most people realise, from my experience at least - Which is why it makes me so angry that the people in the limelight are some of the most soulless and detestable 'artists' in the world. My favourite 'hip hop' group is definitely Dalek... Abandoned Language is a great album, poetically beautiful and violent lyrics, spat with plenty of vigour and self assurance and with an interesting palate of sound. There's no boring 5 second sampled loops, it's dense, it's brass, it's claustrophobic, has real song structures and incorporates a whole range of instrumentation. Their live shows are fantastic too, they blow out pretty much every PA they use. Bass overload!

I'm also into the Anticon/Rhymesayers stuff... Anticon is more abstract and leftfield, more focused on unusual lyrics, polyrhythms and song structures rather than just straight spitting over a 2 bar loop... Rhymesayers can be quite similar authough there's a lot of boasting going on from people like Sage Francis and Slug/Atmosphere. None of the self referencing really gets a look in with Anticon members and that's why i like them. I'm particularly partial to the member Doseone, who has been part of Themselves/13 and God/Subtle to name a few. All of them interesting and creative groups who make music that is grounded in hip hop but not afraid to venture elsewhere.

As far as more mainstream rap goes, Method Man and Redman's "Blackout!" album is crucial listening, it's just a slab of profanity riddled party hip hop that doesn't take itself too seriously and is entirely about the fun times.

Sciz_Bisket

03-29-2009, 05:24 AM

"Insert random unrelative insult here"
Becasue as usual, I have nothing serious to bring to this conversation.

jkr2krz

03-31-2009, 12:47 AM

I hear your argument, but I believe artists such as Nas, The Roots, and Outkast are good examples of artists that have preserved talent and who they are regardless of fame.

Good names there :) And I will agree with you on all those, Common is another one but in some ways I think he's lost a tiny edge but not much really. Personally I try to stick to local smaller artist even if the material is not as well sculpted as some of the names mentioned here. Reason? It's real and from the heart, which is way different then some moron just yelling out cuss words for no reason at all.

guj

04-04-2009, 08:07 PM

I just don't like it because I prefer listening to singing and not talking - that's all really.

IDX

04-06-2009, 02:54 PM

Rap < mud

jewess crabcake

04-06-2009, 03:10 PM

Rap = Rhythmic African Poetry, which many people do not know about in these times.

Rap is Rhythm and Poetry, saying the 'A' stands for African is is just a gross misconception. Rap is Rhythm and Poetry, just like R&B is Rhythm and Blues. Two Afro-American forms of music, does not mean it's racially exclusive.

Also I find it quite ironic about your first statement

Actually he was more accurate than you were.

No offense (:

"Insert random unrelated insult here"
Becasue as usual, I have nothing serious to bring to this conversation. Seems we got ourselves a prophet here.

Rap < mud
:-\, just :-\

Rizer

04-06-2009, 06:45 PM

how long will this thread go on for 2010 perhaps?

let it die already or close it, theirs nothing more to add here.

coolstuff2003ad

05-06-2009, 12:46 PM

All rap and flip flop sounds the same. It's been stagnated for years. Each rap album is identical to the get. All rap stars are clones of a clone of a clone of a rappa. Beastie Boys ain't too bad, Eminum is a f'cking clown.

Oh yeah, what's the difference between the Bloods and the Crips besides the clothing color??

donte1221

05-16-2009, 12:04 AM

i've always wondered, why is rap music bashed by people?

i mean, they say they objectify the women in their videos. well, those woemn wanted to be invideos, so they obviously knew what it would mean. the lyrics cause people to comit violent acts? anyone who can be influenced by the music doesn't need to be allowed in public in the first place. if i made a rap song aboput climbing a mountain, would you go hiking? you just plain don't understand it? well, i don't get punk rock, or emo rock, or whatever the media's callin it.

so please tell me, why don't you like rap? if you like, post your theories anyway.

haha lol i understand what you are saying. i dont listen to much rap these days because i dont listen to the newer rappers that are killing the industry like soulja boi. what you say is so true because i have a younger brother who thinks hes tough after he listens to gucci mane and other wanna be tough rappers. i myself dont act that way at all going as we have the same mom and all. parents these days seem to be afraid of they're children unlike when i was growing up. my mother taught me right from wrong even though i have been in plenty fights comming up. but im not in gangs,never been locked up,no felons,no mark on my head,none of that. i have beatiful daughter that i cant take places because a shooting is bound to happen here in chicago. so yes rap music is voodoo to the minds of most youth and people my age. im a black 20 year old male going on 21 this year and im far from being that stupid. i stick to listening to rock,metal,and other type of music that has a meaning to it. i may dress all hood or watever but i wear my clothes the way they are suppose to and not on and under my ass like a fool. but thats just how life goes dude.

joeninja666x7

05-28-2009, 08:21 PM

i prefer older rap
like up to the mid 90s mabye

Lightspark

06-11-2009, 10:54 PM

Listen to a wide selection of Rappers. You will be surprised at what you will hear. E.g. Nas, Jay-Z, Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., Rakim,
Eminem, Jadakiss, Styles, DMX.

Nagahima

06-12-2009, 05:32 AM

Rap = Rhythmic African Poetry, which many people do not know about in these times.

That's tru...rap nowadays is complete shit. I mean, why the hell would I wanna listen to a rap song that talks about the same crap everytime I turn on the radio? i.e. bitches and hoes, how much money one has, sex, killing ppl....these are just a few examples. now artists are making songs with retarded dances. wtf is a stanky leg? just the name of the dance itself is just as bad as the song. which is why I came up with this quote:

"Hip hop didn't die, it just moving out of America."

And for those that dont agree, look up Nujabes, Nomak, and Uyama Hiroto. Even though they're producers (and they have the sickest beats I've ever heard), alot of artists outside America are on their tracks and they rap about real stuff.

So that's my rambling about rap for today. peace. ^_^v

bluemarco44

06-15-2009, 09:22 AM

I have to agree that it is hard to find a good lyricist in the rap and hip hop front due to them having the same beat and then adding a extra measure to it. Remembered a couple of years ago three R&B artist and rappers used the same beat in their songs that came out 2-3 months or so apart from each other. People went crazy saying that the song was great.

Sorry I rant but anyways can't stand American rap in that in most times it has become lazy. That and the fact that all of these rappers are trying to sing is really what is killing the music industry.

That's just my opinion

Palawelis

06-15-2009, 05:57 PM

Withope

06-16-2009, 09:01 AM

Well I haven't visited this thread for a while, but after reading some posts I'll write my opinion about this. I am an old school type of guy, so every 80's to 90's rap is brilliant to me. And rap is my favorite genre. I listen to artist such as Big L, 2Pac, Rakim, Mic Geronimo, B.I.G, Big Pun, Group Home, Dj Premier, Scarface and many more. The problem now today is that Crunk beats and snappy music has become the appealing factor for the larger audience. And there's nothing we can do about it, but just keep it "Real" and listen to old stuff. While I, myself, as a rapper and also a beatmaker, I am working on creating the old school style and sounds. And I know, that many other in this globe who are trying to bring back the 90's. In time, this genre will change. Many more have realized the meaning of Hip Hop, as it is Rhythm and Poetry and NOT "Retar.ds attempts poetry. So, keep it clean, keep it real because Long Live Hip Hop as a masterpiece of flow and rhymes. Peace

those are some decent names you dropped...but there are a lot of decent hip hop artists out today as well. if you are serious about beatmaking and rapping i feel you should look to push the genre forward and look for creative approaches rather than trying to go back to what was "real" or you'll find yourself boxing yourself in and limiting yourself. hip hop has progressed and evolved for the better. ya just gotta look a little for such artists that have progressed the genre.

DarkStill

06-16-2009, 09:05 PM

if you are serious about beatmaking and rapping i feel you should look to push the genre forward and look for creative approaches rather than trying to go back to what was "real" or you'll find yourself boxing yourself in and limiting yourself. hip hop has progressed and evolved for the better. ya just gotta look a little for such artists that have progressed the genre.

what you said is definitely true. when i first started experimenting with making beats, i always found myself making beats that sounded like someone else's (IE dr dre, neptunes, timbaland, rza, etc). but as you continue to experiment with more and more sounds you start to come into your own. but even take into consideration that alot of the producers that we look up to had to make a beat that was similar to their predecessorswhen they were starting out. so once people actually get used to listening to you then they'll accept what little changes you make.

but listeners of the hip hop genre tend to be the most open-minded when choosing which types of music they like. i mean, even The Game admits to liking maroon 5.

Lightspark

06-16-2009, 11:44 PM

those are some decent names you dropped...but there are a lot of decent hip hop artists out today as
well. if you are serious about beatmaking and rapping i feel you should look to push the genre forward and look for creative
approaches rather than trying to go back to what was "real" or you'll find yourself boxing yourself in and limiting yourself.

This is true, if the majority of the Producers were as originative, & tight as the ones in the 1990's, instead of using lame beats, &
unoriginal Lyrics. But this is what concerns me....

hip hop has progressed and evolved for the better. ya just gotta look a little for such artists that have
progressed the genre.

Were you really playing around? And how have these Artists progressed?

Doctor Kei

06-17-2009, 08:49 PM

I can't believe I've been off of this site for almost 2 years and this thread is still going strong.

kj_maxim

06-18-2009, 03:07 AM

haha lol i understand what you are saying. i dont listen to much rap these days because i dont listen to the newer rappers that are killing the industry like soulja boi. what you say is so true because i have a younger brother who thinks hes tough after he listens to gucci mane and other wanna be tough rappers. i myself dont act that way at all going as we have the same mom and all. parents these days seem to be afraid of they're children unlike when i was growing up. my mother taught me right from wrong even though i have been in plenty fights comming up. but im not in gangs,never been locked up,no felons,no mark on my head,none of that. i have beatiful daughter that i cant take places because a shooting is bound to happen here in chicago. so yes rap music is voodoo to the minds of most youth and people my age. im a black 20 year old male going on 21 this year and im far from being that stupid. i stick to listening to rock,metal,and other type of music that has a meaning to it. i may dress all hood or watever but i wear my clothes the way they are suppose to and not on and under my ass like a fool. but thats just how life goes dude.

I'm black. But I totally agree with you as well. That's how I felt about rap. Rap is becoming so much worst I tell ya. So much worst. And yeah, that's the reason like listen to better ones instead. Of course rap is mostly always as violence, always talk about money, cars, houses, jewelries, girls, and all that other crap. And that's why I'm done with rap a long time ago since 2005. Most of them are just ignorant. Especially about Soulja Boy like you said who is crappy.

Withope

06-18-2009, 09:59 AM

what you said is definitely true. when i first started experimenting with making beats, i always found myself making beats that sounded like someone else's (IE dr dre, neptunes, timbaland, rza, etc). but as you continue to experiment with more and more sounds you start to come into your own. but even take into consideration that alot of the producers that we look up to had to make a beat that was similar to their predecessorswhen they were starting out. so once people actually get used to listening to you then they'll accept what little changes you make.

but listeners of the hip hop genre tend to be the most open-minded when choosing which types of music they like. i mean, even The Game admits to liking maroon 5.

well it actually is kind of hard for the influences you have not to be shown within your music. everything you listen to or take in essentially molds who you are (as a person or a musician). nothing happens in a vacuum. basically what it comes down to for a producer/beatmaker/rapper/composer/musician is to broaden your horizons and look past the limitations whether it be early 90's boom bap hip hop or mid 00's "emotional/personal" (for a lack of a better word) hip hop.

This is true, if the majority of the Producers were as originative, & tight as the ones in the 1990's, instead of using lame beats, &
unoriginal Lyrics. But this is what concerns me....
Were you really playing around? And how have these Artists progressed?

i think you need to expand your horizons within the field. i am certainly not talking about what is seen on the radio/television which is hardly the majority. i think i have dropped a list of credible modern hip hip artists within this topic about 3-4 times.

Lightspark

06-21-2009, 07:33 PM

i think you need to expand your horizons within the field. i am certainly not talking about what is seen
on the radio/television which is hardly the majority. i think i have dropped a list of credible modern hip hip artists within this topic
about 3-4 times.

Oh I know what is being heard on different media players (TV, & Radio) is garbage, because I do not classify them as Rap at all,
more in the field of Rap/Pop. Artists (if you call them that) like Soulja Boy, Lil Wayne, T.I & Jim Jones are garbage to me. The ones
I grew up listening to are Nas, 2Pac, Jay-Z, Jadakiss, & Notorious B.I.G. I was stating what you felt was Rap from your point of
view, not what was being heard lately, that does not give a justified view on what Rap is all about.
Whom are the ones you consider exceptional?

voyagerious

06-21-2009, 08:42 PM

Describing Soulja Boy as an "artist" is a crime against music just like his sole existence is. Same goes for rest of the names in the list.

Lightspark

06-21-2009, 09:10 PM

Describing Soulja Boy as an "artist" is a crime against music just like his sole existence is. Same
goes for rest of the names in the list.

He is just a Rap wannabe, attempting to use these 'so called' Southern American Dance moves to catapult his Career in Rap Music.
He is a waste in my view. I do not even like the stuff being put out, which I have noticed has been radically changing since 2005.
Even Rappers like Ludacris, & Scarface whom also came from the Southern part (Atlanta, Georgia) are not even in this Kid's league.

DevilmanG

06-21-2009, 11:04 PM

wow. this thread is going strong!!! you guys should just let it die. like c'mon! you can talk all you want, but in the end , lil pretty boy gansta wanna-be's are gonna waste money on these rapper wanna-be's and call themselve's fly or something like that. you can also talk all you want about these fake rapppers, but reality is they will always do what they are doing regardless of our own opinions. just let them be!!!

Xephyrok

07-06-2009, 05:03 AM

I like the real rappers who aren't just faggots trying to be wannabes.

discodan

07-06-2009, 08:57 PM

I like the real rappers who aren't just faggots trying to be wannabes.

wiggers?

skitarii

07-07-2009, 12:13 AM

Death of Autotune. You T-painin too much!

StrictlyNinja

07-07-2009, 08:13 PM

I listen to underground Hip Hop.

Mainstream rap is crap.

But underground hiphop is where it's at. They talk about better things than money, girls, and cars.

seizuremania

07-07-2009, 10:08 PM

I guess the main reason I don't like rap, is due to the lack of musicality. Any music I listen to, I'm always listening to the actual music, rather than lyrics, which pretty much renders rap music a pointless listening experience for me... (same break/melody looping for 4 minutes.)

Withope

07-08-2009, 10:21 AM

Lightspark

07-10-2009, 10:05 PM

<snip>

Out of all of the Artists you posted, I only recognise Immortal Technique, Krs-One, Pharoahe Monch, Mos Def, & Talib Kweli. The
rest are unknown to me. I guess I will look them all up to find out more about them.

Withope

07-14-2009, 11:39 PM

Out of all of the Artists you posted, I only recognise Immortal Technique, Krs-One, Pharoahe Monch, Mos Def, & Talib Kweli. The
rest are unknown to me. I guess I will look them all up to find out more about them.

Cool, let me know what you think.

Marshall Lee

07-15-2009, 03:45 AM

I remember when they played rap videos...

Eshvoide

07-15-2009, 04:17 AM

Usually when I listen music for the first time, I usually listen to the song. If the song's catchy, then I listen to the lyrics. If the lyrics are terrible, but the song is catchy, I'll listen to it but I dunno if I'll put it as a favorite. If both fail, I don't listen to it.

Merumeru

07-29-2009, 05:15 PM

XD rap is great, theres just a pretty bad stigma it has following it, the racial one XP like how country music means hillbillies hyuk hyuk, and rap equals niggas aight aight yo XD sounds stupid but its the truth

Locke_FF36

07-29-2009, 07:08 PM

discodan

07-29-2009, 08:43 PM

Haha that was worth checking, good post dude.

lol!!

Locke_FF36

07-30-2009, 12:14 AM

lol!!

...... Was my post that funny?

starxrogue

07-30-2009, 01:55 AM

Why does the word 'Wankster' come into my head when I think of Rap music...

Can't stand that stuff, feel like my eardrums are bleeding...

Used to listen to it in the past, not anymore...mainly because of the lyrics and style...X.x

Underground for me is tolerable, but I'm more into the Alternative thread.

desudesudesu

08-08-2009, 06:37 PM

rap: music for the tone-deaf.

Locke_FF36

08-09-2009, 06:34 PM

Describing Soulja Boy as an "artist" is a crime against music just like his sole existence is. Same goes for rest of the names in the list.

Exactly, no rapper is a 'artist'. They are MTV sales gimmicks.

Withope

08-10-2009, 07:44 AM

Exactly, no rapper is a 'artist'. They are MTV sales gimmicks.

I feel bad for you that you say this. How could absolutely every rapper be a MTV sales gimmick? There are a lot of rappers who are very deep actually. I think hip hop grants a, extraordinary opportunity for poetry to arise. The rapper's rhythm and lyrics are at the core of his/her art. Simple; but this offers the rapper's words to be more of a focus.

Locke_FF36

08-10-2009, 02:49 PM

I feel bad for you that you say this. How could absolutely every rapper be a MTV sales gimmick? There are a lot of rappers who are very deep actually. I think hip hop grants a, extraordinary opportunity for poetry to arise. The rapper's rhythm and lyrics are at the core of his/her art. Simple; but this offers the rapper's words to be more of a focus.

Words backed by what? The only song I can think of where the group fits a "hip hopish" genre is N.E.R.D's "She Wants to Move", that song had some cool instrumentation.

There isn't any music to this "rap" shit. I can't believe rap has even made it this far, it's still just a sub-genre to funk & motown. Check your history books.

Withope

08-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Words backed by what? The only song I can think of where the group fits a "hip hopish" genre is N.E.R.D's "She Wants to Move", that song had some cool instrumentation.

There isn't any music to this "rap" shit. I can't believe rap has even made it this far, it's still just a sub-genre to funk & motown. Check your history books.

I would suggest looking a little deeper before assuming most to all rap is shit. I have repeatedly posted a fairly large list of links to hip hop artists that i would deem as lyrically and musically memorable. In fact it is on this page.

And what is funk and mo-town a sub-genre of? What genre hasn't come from something else?.....Every genre or music movement has to have some sort of influence.

Locke_FF36

08-11-2009, 02:50 PM

I would suggest looking a little deeper before assuming most to all rap is shit. I have repeatedly posted a fairly large list of links to hip hop artists that i would deem as lyrically and musically memorable. In fact it is on this page.

And what is funk and mo-town a sub-genre of? What genre hasn't come from something else?.....Every genre or music movement has to have some sort of influence.

Every genre does have its influencment that is true, you win on that one lol. I can dig as deep as I would care to, and find zero hip hop or rap that would suit any kind of musical instrumentation that would suffice, same thing with nu-metal, or this 'hard rock' movement with all the nickelback bands, no matter how far you push your self into the genre, not going to find anything like Zeppelin or Jimi Hendrix, you know musicians that really push themselves, just isn't going to happen.

fastidious percolator

08-11-2009, 08:36 PM

I can dig as deep as I would care to, and find zero hip hop or rap that would suit any kind of musical instrumentation that would suffice

I still find that a weird opinion, since like I stated before in this thread, it's quite the opposite really since there are a huge amount of wonderful hip-hop artists out there that do have depth in their music, but it still feels like you can't grasp that thought!

Like me and Withope already mentioned lots of artists, I'd just pick one wonderful example out of it, so yeah, four words:

Blue Sky Black Death

<3

Zulu

08-11-2009, 11:20 PM

That's all rap is good for is bashing.
Date: 10-12-2007, 03:41 PM.

I can't believe that you're still ranting on. It's been YEARS. ><

x)

Withope

08-12-2009, 06:51 AM

Every genre does have its influencment that is true, you win on that one lol. I can dig as deep as I would care to, and find zero hip hop or rap that would suit any kind of musical instrumentation that would suffice, same thing with nu-metal, or this 'hard rock' movement with all the nickelback bands, no matter how far you push your self into the genre, not going to find anything like Zeppelin or Jimi Hendrix, you know musicians that really push themselves, just isn't going to happen.

I'll narrow down the list with hip hop artists that i believe push themselves.

Blockhead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dgq_2fycaw&feature=related), Amon Tobin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8SDfOdfAvs), DJ Shadow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54_7m-CVTMY), Solillaquists of Sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ke0_Q-pwI4), Saul Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LEdGIcBheM), Thavius Beck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KBbljWWh94), P.O.S. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OpHJUJIrpU), El-P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWNA-jJNhos), K-Os (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyRB00Xe5-E), J-Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCRIuq56Pss), Kid Koala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbFIGFv4GLQ), Busdriver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpP-8tJ-9Js&feature=related), Blackalicious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvPnM2Q1nwU), Subtle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5HVRe7UDuc), X:144 & SPS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDCf6pw-fUQ), DJ Krush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k09ehtagnJo), and as Trentington mentioned Blue Sky Black Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZS7ikWCqw)

Locke_FF36

08-12-2009, 05:53 PM

fastidious percolator

08-12-2009, 06:16 PM

So I'm guessing you're not a fan of electronic music either? :3 Shame, well, not saying you're closedminded or something, but being open to good hip-hop even though it would lack the instruments that a standard rockband would contain, is healthy. ~

Withope

08-12-2009, 06:26 PM

Much respect dude, at least your trying haha. I have to ask you something first, have u ever picked up a guitar, or any instrument? Ever learned any riffs, very powerful feeling playing music, thats the perspective im coming from.

Ya, piano. What is powerful feeling music to you?

Zulu

08-12-2009, 06:52 PM

Music shouldn't really be about what genre it is. As long as you feel it, that is all that matters. If you don't, fine, but don't be a dick about it.

Now let' us all be friends. ;;

Withope

08-12-2009, 08:23 PM

Music shouldn't really be about what genre it is. As long as you feel it, that is all that matters. If you don't, fine, but don't be a dick about it.

Now let' us all be friends. ;;

That's my implication. I don't think taste should be limited to one genre.

Locke_FF36

08-12-2009, 08:39 PM

Ya, piano. What is powerful feeling music to you?

Being on a stage, playing guitar. What my point was, I would never get that feeling being a rapper & no rapper in the world will ever pull anything off muscially inspiring, mabey lyrically they do - and thats fine. But no rapper will ever come close to being a musical genius, and any rapper or disney artist, and most pop music in general, will be easily forgotten as time goes on. People will always remember and listen to Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Metallica, all of our classical artists from the 1700 and 1800's, etc.

Zulu

08-12-2009, 09:10 PM

Locke_FF36

08-13-2009, 03:22 PM

Says who, exactly? Not to be rude or anything, but that comment exudes blissful ignorance. Have you ever had anything to do with the African American community? To many African American people, some rap artists are JUST as important to them, as Led Zeppelin is to you. Artists like Tupac or Nas, are considered, also by people outside of the black community, to be ranked alongside some of the greatest musical geniuses in the history of the music.

My point being, you can't just start hurling out your opinion as fact, because it is not. And even though I partially agree with you about today's music standards, it would be unfair and inappropriate to generalise on that big of a scale.

No I really haven't. I understand that rap and hip hop means something to people, and thats great for people to have something like that in there life, as I do with my music. I believe that rap will be easily forgettable in the next 100 years or so though, there just isn't enough music, it's not musical enough. Mabey it will be rememberd by gangs and thugs and that whole scene, but not the Musical stratosphere.

DarkStill

08-14-2009, 08:17 AM

No I really haven't. I understand that rap and hip hop means something to people, and thats great for people to have something like that in there life, as I do with my music. I believe that rap will be easily forgettable in the next 100 years or so though, there just isn't enough music, it's not musical enough. Mabey it will be rememberd by gangs and thugs and that whole scene, but not the Musical stratosphere.

why do you guys let people like locke bait you, not de-bate you?

rezo

08-14-2009, 03:11 PM

I believe that rap will be easily forgettable in the next 100 years or so though

Who are the most memorable musicians who were active in 1909?

Sanico

08-14-2009, 05:05 PM

Prokofiev, Mahler, Ravel, Stravinsky, Dukas, Holst..

Zulu

08-14-2009, 08:03 PM

Yeah, 'cuz a lot of non-classical/music-interested knew all of those people. *Sarcasm*

fastidious percolator

08-14-2009, 11:01 PM

why do you guys let people like locke bait you, not de-bate you?

'cause I waiting for him for this to say,

I believe that rap will be easily forgettable in the next 100 years or so though, there just isn't enough music, it's not musical enough. Mabey it will be rememberd by gangs and thugs and that whole scene, but not the Musical stratosphere.

for from now on it shall be in my sig for its hilarity. ~

whatheck

08-17-2009, 12:00 PM

some of the rap music are harassing me because they are too noisy.

DarkStill

08-21-2009, 06:19 AM

this is how i'm starting to feel about this thread (and i'm sure this will inspire a whole other debate that basically sounds like "la-la-la-la...i don't hear you...la-la-la...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9A2I-X7b-w

nightzero

08-22-2009, 11:40 PM

Instead of you people hating rap music so much have you actually listen to any rap made in the mid 70's to early the 00's? Ill agree it is indeed sometimes vulgar, but if you listen to the shit today it is no longer rap and I for one can totaly agree with anyone opposes rap made nao. I hate Weezy ( Lil' Wayne, OJ da Juiceman, others that i forget to mention).

Ill just say this,
Rap= Ok (Old Skool is better late 70's early 00's)
Hip-Hop= Great ( but is now ruined due to the new cats in the music industry).
Jazz= Cool.
Country/Bluegrass= Cant Stand it.
Techno/Pop= Some is ok.
Rock/Arena/Metal: I only like it if its been remixed from a favorite song i like perferably VG's( Metal is out of the question )
Take it from a black guy.

JarodThePretender

09-21-2009, 04:10 PM

Old style always rules (Grandmaster Flash, Kurtis Blow, Fat Boys, Boo-Yaa Tribe [New Funky Nation] and so many more).

LordBlackudder

09-21-2009, 05:11 PM

The men with their trouser on back to front telling us to kill pigs?

I think i'll pass.

talkstoomuch

09-24-2009, 11:58 PM

One simple reason, it is sung by talentless people auto-tuned with programs (They try to act cool too, pathetic attempts to make themselves appear more than they really are in public) People should do their work for themselves not to base their lives on morons with no talent. Not my stuff EVER! If you like it so be it, i'm not saying don't listen to it. It's your life do what you want with it. Enjoy it.

malkyah

09-25-2009, 06:32 AM

Rap is a fundamental part of the music industry due to popularity and because it isn't prejudice against african americans, atleast for the majority. Though, because of rap it has stirred up some. I only believe some songs are inappropriate when they target other races and belittle them or describe gang activity and violence. It stirs up fear or false accusations against all people of the ethnic group that don't do what these songs say they do. It also is something children really don't need to be hearing but their parents listen to the stuff and some of it might even become encrypted in the childs mind filling it with filth and he will think being in a gang is a good thing having no concept of right from wrong. Songs that revolve around relationships, love, and daily life are fine just like there is nothing wrong with writting a love poem but it is how it is expressed. Sadly these songs with no emphasis on those things are more abundant.

HDHipHop1

11-15-2009, 07:28 PM

Ruffneck

01-21-2010, 06:18 PM

Eat it!

IGN game of the year 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVujFZ_jW-4&feature=related)

mr.hachi

01-24-2010, 10:12 PM

I love rap music, grew up on it, and being in the UK growing up in the time I did it was hard to get and was quite underground, same goes to old school Swing and RnB, labels for music get thrown around so easily now it has lost a lot of its meaning.

01-24-2010, 10:15 PM

Volque

01-25-2010, 08:25 PM

Rule of thumb.

I was one of those people that hated rap because it was "popular"; indeed, there is crappy rap, like there is shitty rock, and the list goes on.

Never heard of Jazzmatazz?. It's rap-jazz at its purest form.
Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCUzmsp1r4

The Ricky

01-29-2010, 08:40 PM

This thread has been around for 5 years now, and I still don't think we've come up with a real answer.

IDX

01-30-2010, 12:59 AM

From what I've noticed, rap and R&B is slowly dying out (FINALLY). I can't exactly remember, but I even heard something about some kind of rock is gaining more popularity over that rap crap. I think it was indie rock but I can't remember.

rezo

02-02-2010, 07:25 AM

rock died in the 50s.

Manley

02-08-2010, 09:36 PM

Well it's hated because musically it's gone down hill. In the old days rappers would rhyme with a style all their own. They sounded cool. Today anybody can pick up a mic and rhyme and the quality has gone down hill.

Withope

02-09-2010, 06:32 AM

i think the moment any genre is contained by corporations and artists (although to call them artists wouldn't be appropriate. businessman might be more suiting) and is seen as business opportunity, it starts to die out.

technohive

02-09-2010, 05:00 PM

I dont hate rap actually I like some rap songs although I guess some people could not appreciate it

02-09-2010, 05:08 PM

You've heard one rap song, you've heard them all.

Withope

02-10-2010, 01:10 AM

You've heard one rap song, you've heard them all.

good ass logic based on extraordinary knowledge.

onyxmugen

02-11-2010, 02:42 AM

Based on the objections I have heard, people generally hate rap because they think that the 5 to 10 songs that they heard on the radio is representative of a genre that is now almost 30 years old. Saying that all rap music is about violence and sex is like saying that all rock music is about devil worship and virgin sacrifice.

I'm not going to defend today's mainstream rap, because about 99% of it DOES suck. But mainstream music as a whole really sucks right now.

Withope

02-11-2010, 07:24 AM

omega911

02-13-2010, 07:50 PM

I mostly hate mainstream rap. And it has nothing to do with me hating mainstream music it's just that all the popular rappers truly suck. However, there are a few rap artist that I really do enjoy, but I actually find them talented unlike today's most popular rappers. My favorite would have to be Atmosphere, Blueprint, Murs, K'Naan, Talib Kweli, Lupe Fiasco, and Mos Def.

Edmond Dantes

02-13-2010, 08:07 PM

02-13-2010, 08:18 PM

good ass logic based on extraordinary knowledge.

Yes, extraordinary knowledge of today's top 100 list on iTunes.

(well, okay, maybe not today today, but recently-day.)

fastidious percolator

02-13-2010, 08:45 PM

Finally checked out Blue Sky Black Death's Instrumentals albums, and as expected, highly recommending it. <3 Neat remixes and even better than the original ones imo.

Also can't wait for Black Milk's new record this year (with Melanie Rutherford 8D neat-o~)!

shadukai

02-16-2010, 03:25 AM

Rap music is hated because Gucci Mane is popular.

HDHipHop1

02-16-2010, 03:38 AM

IDX

02-16-2010, 04:10 AM

It's not the same article (and when I said that, I was referring to what I was hearing a few years ago).

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/mar/03/20070303-121444-5010r/

Enjoy. And there's more articles about the same thing so I just grabbed this one for ya.

HDHipHop1

02-16-2010, 04:58 AM

Meh, so mainstream hip hop is dying. Big deal. I hope it dies. Violently. The underground will survive this though.

IDX

02-17-2010, 11:20 AM

I don't listen to the radio because no matter what's on it it's crap (unless the radio is on at work). Can't really say if the music I listen to would be considered "underground" just because it's not on the radio, but they are well known among the one's who listen to the genre. Or at least have heard of them.

But from observation, the stations in my city tend to have more new music from new bands that aren't even part of the whole rap or R&B genre. I know a few people that like the noises that cause headaches and when they're listening to the radio, it rarely has something that I haven't heard.

technohive

02-19-2010, 07:47 AM

Some hated it because they say it is not considered music at all..But for me i love rap music as long as the rap music lyrics are really worth listening to

IDX

03-05-2010, 01:26 AM

Withope

03-06-2010, 07:22 AM

I consider music "music" when it's not done with computers. When actual musicians play the music with REAL instruments. Which is what rap does not use. Not only that, they don't "sing" either. If anything, they talk along with the beat and even if they try to sing, they're going to need all the synths in the studio just to sound better, and that's not even saying much.

But like I said, this is my opinion. Others have the same and others are different.

k, so if a composer doesn't play an instrument in a band, he/she does not make music? so what do you consider a "real" instrument? an electric guitar or acoustic drums? but not a microkorg nor a chopped breakbeat? i won't defend popular music, but the instruments used in popular hip hop songs are at least somewhat interesting. i think there is beauty in the digital realm just as much as there is in the acoustic realm. rapping is not singing, but rapping is rhythmic. is that not music? i think you can explore much more ways to play with the rhythm when you're rapping.

and i think the "synths" you are referring to is actually auto-tune which is a program.

IDX

03-06-2010, 09:56 PM

k, so if a composer doesn't play an instrument in a band, he/she does not make music?
When did I say anything about composers or what goes into making music? Please stick with the subject at hand. But I will discuss this anyways since you decided to bring it up. Composers create music. Most of the time they play it too so they can know how it will sound and make adjustments accordingly because music can't just simply be written down and be called a "masterpiece" if it sounds off in some areas. Hearing a music piece is obviously much better than looking at it.

so what do you consider a "real" instrument? an electric guitar or acoustic drums? but not a microkorg nor a chopped breakbeat?

For starters, what I consider real instruments are....well, instruments. Guitars, drums, flutes, keyboards, blah blah blah. Computers is NOT what I would consider an instrument because it doesn't require someone to play it. And a majority of hip hop uses samples of other people's work using computers.

i won't defend popular music, but the instruments used in popular hip hop songs are at least somewhat interesting. i think there is beauty in the digital realm just as much as there is in the acoustic realm. rapping is not singing, but rapping is rhythmic. is that not music? i think you can explore much more ways to play with the rhythm when you're rapping.

That is merely your opinion like I have said that my posts are my opinion. Rapping to me is basically "talking" in beat with the rhythm. Singing in beat with a rhythm is part of the music where as talking I don't see how. There is not much talent required to do this. Now if you're going to say that writing lyrics is a talent, I will somewhat agree. I'm no poet and not much of a lyrics writer (mainly because I'm not good at rhyming and don't know what good lyrics would be) but even I know that if someone like me can just sit down and in time write something, then even that is something almost anyone can do.

and i think the "synths" you are referring to is actually auto-tune which is a program.

Auto-Tune is not a program (or shouldn't be), but one of the many features in a program that is used to edit and add effects to audio files which in this case is music. It would be a waste for a program to only be able to do one thing if there are others that can do this along with other stuff. But a singer (or at least a good one) doesn't need that because they know how to sing. But I meant all of that stuff is mostly needed when they try to "sing". They almost always need reverb on the voice to cover up some rough areas and for added ear candy, there's also delay and harmonics (where it sounds like there's two of the same person singing at the same time. Not sure if that's what it's called but I'm sure you know what I mean).

Howling Wind

03-07-2010, 06:03 AM

Because too me it's not music. =/ *Prepares to be flamed*
I do like some rap but I'm not sure how it gets under the genre of "music"

Withope

03-07-2010, 09:11 AM

When did I say anything about composers or what goes into making music? Please stick with the subject at hand. But I will discuss this anyways since you decided to bring it up. Composers create music. Most of the time they play it too so they can know how it will sound and make adjustments accordingly because music can't just simply be written down and be called a "masterpiece" if it sounds off in some areas. Hearing a music piece is obviously much better than looking at it.

You didn't. But just because someone uses a computer to make music doesn't necessarily mean this someone isn't making music...There are such things called MIDI controllers ("computer keyboards"). I agree. Music can't be just written down and be considered a masterpiece (unless you are Mozart) and I have personally found the best way to approach composition is by playing it out on a keyboard/guitar/etc.

For starters, what I consider real instruments are....well, instruments. Guitars, drums, flutes, keyboards, blah blah blah. Computers is NOT what I would consider an instrument because it doesn't require someone to play it. And a majority of hip hop uses samples of other people's work using computers.

Well, a lot of hip hop producers nowadays are using a lot of synth and synth drums in their music...not so much samples; however hip hop was built on samples and break beats (sampled drum beats). You wouldn't consider a sampler an instrument even if you can rhythmically tweak a sample and make it your own?

Here is an example of an artist (amon tobin) taking break beats to another dimension...surely making it his own:
Amon Tobin - Like Regular Chickens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGE_XA5pOo&feature=related)

And I'm confused when you say "computers." Do you mean the use of computers in general to write music or just the act of clicking out notes on a built in keyboard or built it drum machine from a program on a computer (and not actually playing with a real keyboard or drum set)?

Also there are a lot of talented musicians that have used synth or synth drums over the years.

That is merely your opinion like I have said that my posts are my opinion. Rapping to me is basically "talking" in beat with the rhythm. Singing in beat with a rhythm is part of the music where as talking I don't see how. There is not much talent required to do this. Now if you're going to say that writing lyrics is a talent, I will somewhat agree. I'm no poet and not much of a lyrics writer (mainly because I'm not good at rhyming and don't know what good lyrics would be) but even I know that if someone like me can just sit down and in time write something, then even that is something almost anyone can do.

Ya, but rapping puts rhythm as the forefront. Rhythm is an important element of music. Here is an artist (Swamburger from S.O.S.) exhibiting rhythm through his rapping:
Solillaquists of Sound - As If We Existed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I22wtawMWEw)

Although I can't stand the lyrical content nor the instrumental, here is another example:
Tonedeff - Velocity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxGaa26FXg)

Auto-Tune is not a program (or shouldn't be), but one of the many features in a program that is used to edit and add effects to audio files which in this case is music. It would be a waste for a program to only be able to do one thing if there are others that can do this along with other stuff. But a singer (or at least a good one) doesn't need that because they know how to sing. But I meant all of that stuff is mostly needed when they try to "sing". They almost always need reverb on the voice to cover up some rough areas and for added ear candy, there's also delay and harmonics (where it sounds like there's two of the same person singing at the same time. Not sure if that's what it's called but I'm sure you know what I mean).

Auto-Tune is available as either software or hardware. It can be used as a VST in a host program such as NUENDO, SONAR, Cubase, etc. Auto-Tune's main purpose is to correct pitch, and it is an effect. A synth is not an effect. But i do agree with you. I don't really like auto-tune. Whenever someone uses auto-tune, they sound the same as the next guy/girl (like a robot). With the natural human voice, there is a difference and more uniqueness from person to person.

Sciz_Bisket

03-13-2010, 05:39 AM

FUN FACT: This thread has been around for 4 years 7 months and 26 days.

The Ricky

03-14-2010, 08:06 AM

And the fighting still won't stop.

deasfet

04-05-2010, 08:06 AM

Rap is a culture kind of thing

t0m s3rvo

04-06-2010, 01:37 AM

And the fighting still won't stop.

Because people are stupid. :D

steeltw

04-06-2010, 06:46 AM

i like a little the rap music, maybe they hate it because is music dedicated to a specific social group, in my country we have something called "Cumbia Villera" villera/villero (it's the way poor people is called) and believe me... is worst than rap.

Cam

05-10-2010, 11:22 PM

Rap spreads a culture that is a blight on humanity. No more needs to be said.

discodan

05-11-2010, 12:37 AM

Rap spreads a culture that is a blight on humanity. No more needs to be said.

trolling?

Cam

05-11-2010, 02:04 AM

trolling?

Stating facts. As usual.

V Guyver

05-11-2010, 08:35 AM

I tried... I really tried to find some redeemable music in rap since I last posted in this thread. I really really tried.... but all I see in the mainstream is more and more uber fail. In fact it's insulting to my intelligence on top of my music tastes. If there is a niche that I would like, I am not going through anymore of the seas of filth to find it, at least in America.

I find Korean rappers to be rather fun and entertaining though, unlike American ones. To top it off, the majority of them don't rely on any cussing, and don't promote retarded values like bling, ugly teeth, and whores.

Tanis

05-11-2010, 08:53 AM

Because, lately, they seem to think singing into a fan is a good thing?

discodan

05-11-2010, 06:38 PM

Stating fails. As usual.

fixed

fastidious percolator

05-13-2010, 10:32 PM

The new Flying Lotus album is insanely good, quite a must-check out, !

Cam

05-18-2010, 05:31 AM

fixed

Now that's hypocritical, nevermind the fact that it's wrong..

fastidious percolator

05-18-2010, 10:43 AM

Oh you're a blight on humanity~ sexpot

iHateTimeDotCom

05-27-2010, 08:47 AM

rap is music... its just very basic for the most part... i rap but i try to be creative with my music... im also a producer (one who makes not only sampled but original beats as well)...

05-27-2010, 03:35 PM

rap is NOT music... its just very stupid for the most part... i rap but i try to be creative with my non-music... im also a producer (one who makes not only stolen but UNoriginal beats as well)...

Wow!

fastidious percolator

05-27-2010, 06:15 PM

Well D�lek still pretty much pwns all, making hatred comments incredibly invalid. :D

krissy

06-05-2010, 11:57 PM

i can't believe this thread is still alive

anyway, new stuff from the Flobots recently: pretty good!

dookie11

06-07-2010, 02:28 AM

Because, lately, they seem to think singing into a fan is a good thing?

That's hilarious hahaha. Also, people might hate rap nowadays, because the dude from Degrassi is doing it.

Withope

06-11-2010, 12:47 AM

some hip hop songs released in the past year:

Solillaquists of Sound - Bulletproof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvH4UIDMEQ)

K-os - 4 3 2 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRlzM4a1ll0)

Sage Francis - Best of Times (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA8hzUDXvtk)

ultima_tales

06-14-2010, 02:24 AM

i don't really have any idea why rap music is hated, I actually think its a lot more liked by the mainstream population than Metal or Classic music, since its way closer to that POP & RNB wave going on.

Blackzc

07-08-2010, 07:23 AM

Stolen hooks, borrowed tired lines and arrogant. Sums it up for me.

V Guyver

07-08-2010, 09:32 AM

well I did find some rap I like, but it's all asian dudes... outside of the US. rap has fallen so badly that it's become more entertaining to lsiten to Japanese and korean rappers muttering angrish. The biggest difference is that they actualy compose music and don't steal it from other artists... ahem!

Withope

07-08-2010, 12:05 PM

PureSeeker

07-08-2010, 04:46 PM

The majority of rappers today focus on materialism whether it be money or cars etc, violence, and degrading women to a certain degree (not they do not do it themselves in rap anyway). These are the types that go main stream, that get signed with 360 deals, and that you see in high street and shopping mall record shops, they are also in the underground, after all not all can be famous.

But there is another side to hip hop/rap, do not forget the circumstances that rap originally rose up from in the states, blacks rights movements etc.

Today very few hiphop/rap artists have stayed true to the original formula, the rappers that touch on political, world social issues and problems, the environment and history are the best, and worth listening too, the rest are all brainwashed.

HDHipHop1

07-08-2010, 06:20 PM

decadentking

07-12-2010, 03:28 AM

I like NWA and Public Enemy but hate P-Diddy.

kj_maxim

07-13-2010, 12:12 AM

I like NWA and Public Enemy but hate P-Diddy.

I agree. P-Diddy wasn't a decent rapper. But my problem about rap music nowadays is that its mostly some bad gimmicky rappers that talks about the same crap to the point that gets repetitive and ridiculous. Then of course, some of them are non-talented as well. That's why I don't listen to the new crappy rap music anymore. To be honest, I kinda like the 90's rap music better in my opinion. You should probably listen to Beastie Boys or other good rappers.

Aniki

07-13-2010, 01:30 AM

2Pac, Dr. Dre and a Tribe called Quest are also good and this comes from a guy who hates rap.

solidejake

07-14-2010, 06:08 AM

Because it's lazy. A lot of it is just "We Will Rock You" and some moron talking about the police and drugs. And I realize not all rap is like that, but nowadays, most is. Seriously, auto-tune? So lame. Rap about something that matters, I can respect Eminem, and Johnny 5 from the Flobots. Nothing about weed, sex, crime, or the hood interests me. It's not a good influence. And no, I don't like Metal, or any of that screamo crap! I think music died years ago to be honest. There are hardly any good musicians nowadays.

Withope

07-14-2010, 09:30 AM

xuu

07-31-2010, 10:00 AM

Well said Withope & Pureseeker, and I presume this is the case for a large percentage of those who despise "Rap music", though I can't say I'm surprised since I'm sure many depend on the mainstream as their only source for music but to simply put it, one has to dig to find gems, period.

Hip Hop has the ability to raise political awareness & further expand our understanding of life, along with the power to manifest humanistic characteristics in the listener, but it's a shame the direction Hip Hop has taken today and the way it's being portrayed in the media, leaving newcomers to the genre(It's a culture FYI) with an undesirable first impression.

But of course, 1 stale apple in an apple tree doesn't render the rest the same. Big up to those who realize this.

Peace

macrylinda1

08-03-2010, 01:43 AM

You didn't even spell "Schlong" right, Lord Abortion.

People hate rap because it sounds retarded. It always talks about sex, money and all that stupid stuff.

xuu

08-03-2010, 08:16 AM

In your world

Tanis

08-03-2010, 08:23 AM

I like wrappers like Eminiem, that nasty sarcastic asshole rap that's more about teasing people or social commentary and not about bling-bling and the sweat dripping off balls.

08-03-2010, 03:23 PM

People hate rap because it sounds retarded. It always talks about sex, money and all that stupid stuff.

That, and for whatever reason it's "okay" for rappers to throw the N-word around like a beach ball.

I like wrappers like Eminiem, that nasty sarcastic asshole rap that's more about teasing people or social commentary and not about bling-bling and the sweat dripping off balls.

Eminem is the only worthwhile rapper, period.

xuu

08-03-2010, 04:51 PM

Eminem is the only worthwhile rapper, period.

fixd :D

"The Rapper is a product of* corporate marketing. The Emcee is community respect"

" > = The Corporate, < = The Cultural"

the preacher KRS 1 part 1 (emcee vs. rapper) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMx0z5-Cs5c)

Hatsukoi

08-04-2010, 10:14 AM

Everyone that keeps saying that ALL rap is terrible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qsOfS29P7E
You're welcome.

08-04-2010, 04:49 PM

fixd :D

What did you fix?

Everyone that keeps saying that ALL rap is terrible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qsOfS29P7E
You're welcome.

Yea, that was pretty good I'd say. Would've been better had the song not changed just over halfway through though.

omega911

08-04-2010, 06:02 PM

I really do like Eminem's new album. I think a lot of people are quick to judge rap because of all the mainstream crap.

I still have to say Slug from Atmosphere and Kristoff Krane are my two favorite rappers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wSj3wbbJAA That's Kristoff Krane (known as Abzorbr at the time) doing a freestyle with Eyedea.

xuu

08-05-2010, 01:38 PM

^ Raw content that elevates the spirit !!!

What did you fix?

Yeah it's hard to see the italics on rapper

1981 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_DBrjtH0s)

megamaid

08-12-2010, 10:36 PM

Not all rap is bad, I find 21 Question by 50 Cent to be a beautiful song

thebanditking

08-19-2010, 04:34 AM

I'm more of a Rock/Heavy Metal guy any way but I hate Rap because its lacks depth or intelligence. Most "artists" make up words to rhyme because they lack the vocabulary skills (so it seems) to properly use a dictionary. Think about it rap was originally a form of poetry that conveyed feelings/topics. When is the last time any of these rappers used their "art form" to talk about things that matter in life? Its always about drugs, sex, hoes and stupid other things that are considered part of the "average African American" stereotype. As soon as P.Diddy and his ilk came in it went to hell really quick. Retards Attempting Poetry (RAP).

HDHipHop1

08-19-2010, 05:10 AM

That, and for whatever reason it's "okay" for rappers to throw the N-word around like a beach ball.

You can say nigger until your little white heart's content. No one's stopping you. In fact, I'm sure many of this forum would view you as a "hero."

Eminem is the only worthwhile rapper, period.

Just because you stick to the mainstream, like most all hip hop bashers, and only find the crap there doesn't mean that there isn't worthwhile hip hop elsewhere.

Withope

08-19-2010, 06:41 AM

ok first off; rap is crap. all they talk about is shooting each other, selling drugs, blah blah blah. how is that poetry? lol and then they dont even make there own music!!!1 so how is it music? lol & if they do make their own "music" its just some repetitive loud synth line looped until my head explodes. LMAO!! listen to real music from artists like brahms, mozart, bach, or haydn. or better yet, listen to led zeppelin, pink floyd, or metallica, or johnny cash, or anything that's at least 20 years ago because i can't listen to anything from this age nor anything new nor respect anything that ive hardly looked into...dont call me close-minded either because im not!

Retards Attempting Poetry (RAP).

LOL!!!!! HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THAT!?

Eminem is the only worthwhile rapper, period.

come on. dont lie to yourself. he cant even sing.

People hate rap because it sounds retarded. It always talks about sex, money and all that stupid stuff.

you couldn't have said it better. surprisingly no one has ever said that.

Aft Dread Pressure

08-19-2010, 02:26 PM

Its always about drugs, sex, hoes and stupid other things that are considered part of the "average African American" stereotype.

Since you're set on talking in absolutes (not that that only goes for you), all I need is a single example to prove you wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYNFfgrXTI

08-19-2010, 03:31 PM

come on. dont lie to yourself. he cant even sing.

That's because he's a rapper.

You can say nigger until your little white heart's content. No one's stopping you. In fact, I'm sure many of this forum would view you as a "hero."

When did I myself say that, you fucktard? Quit being a hypocritical halfwit and learn to read what's there, instead of what you want to see.

Just because you stick to the mainstream, like most all hip hop bashers, and only find the crap there doesn't mean that there isn't worthwhile hip hop elsewhere.

Um . . . I think you need to re-read things before you post them because that took me three tries to understand fully; I guess the general gist is all I need to grasp, however. Looks like you skipped over post 1167 if that's your opinion of me.

Look, your quest for justice in your depraved little world is not going to end by assaulting me for stating an opinion and icing your words with racial accusation. Unlike you, I have a versatile mind and can accept my faults, whereas you perceive yourself to be above all others and incapable of error. You refused to listen to me in the past about your racial rants, and for your apparent suffering in your life I pity you. But spouting it across a video game forum where maybe 1% of the people here actually give a crap about your heart-wrenching underprivileged minority's struggle for truth is not only a tremendous waste of your time, but a tremendous waste of ours too.

With that said, have yourself a great day now :D

Withope

08-20-2010, 11:41 PM

That's because he's a rapper.

exactly. if he can't sing then he isnt even making music!

Um . . . I think you need to re-read things before you post them because that took me three tries to understand fully; I guess the general gist is all I need to grasp, however. Looks like you skipped over post 1167 if that's your opinion of me.

yes! yes! i totally agree! the general grasp is ALL you need to grasp. even if there are tons of underground hip hop artists out there that i havent heard of that probably talk about something meaningful and probably put effort into their work...but who cares? like you, i make assumptions about the entire "genre of music" regardless if i know anything about it or not. again, the general grasp is ALL you need. i can't stand the people that say ignorance or apathy can "harm" a person. i feel it strengthens them.

Look, your quest for justice in your depraved little world is not going to end by assaulting me for stating an opinion and icing your words with racial accusation. Unlike you, I have a versatile mind and can accept my faults, whereas you perceive yourself to be above all others and incapable of error. You refused to listen to me in the past about your racial rants, and for your apparent suffering in your life I pity you. But spouting it across a video game forum where maybe 1% of the people here actually give a crap about your heart-wrenching underprivileged minority's struggle for truth is not only a tremendous waste of your time, but a tremendous waste of ours too.

exactly, we have versatile minds. even though i say we are ignorant or apathetic about this "genre" of music, our minds are always more capable of being more versatile than yours. how could it not be? you like hip hop, we do not. its like a fact or something lol. and about the 1% of people that care on this forum, there are only 47 pages regarding what WE know as the truth vs. those that claim there are decent artists out there in some magical land of "the underground." so obviously no one cares. lol to you hip hop lovers. lol at you.

With that said, have yourself a great day now :D

08-21-2010, 03:45 PM

There's plenty of people who can't sing a note but still make music. Not only that, but I do appreciate some hip-hop, much as bullshitsnowman refuses to see. He makes assumptions that I'm racist, when I've never made any allusion to any such thing, instead toppling racism at every turn. I guess he's just blind to truth. At any rate, for hip-hop that actually means something, I'd go for OutKast, NaS, Eminem, Mos Def or Talib Kweli. There's a few others who have done minor things to break from the norm, but for the most part all other rap is just the same pointless "yo, yo, yo, I wa' sen' a shah out to mah n*ggaz out thurr, yo, west side in the hood, fuck bitches, yo yo" drivel in my ears.

Withope

08-22-2010, 10:25 AM

08-22-2010, 07:20 PM

THANK YOU!!! A couple of those I'd never heard of, but now I have!

RavenX13

08-22-2010, 10:15 PM

after 2001, i see rap going downhill. it sounds repetitive to me. i really cant stand listening to the new stuff of today, thou when someone weree to play something from say 2001 and back, then i dont mind listenig to it at all. otherwise i stick with what i listen to currently

Shad

08-26-2010, 04:21 PM

Wait people hate rap? I thought hearing two shitty R&B songs on the radio and then denouncing all forms of spoken vox except the Beastie Boys was just a 90s thing.

When John Darnielle can guest star on an Aesop Rock album and write a song about a Marduk concert in the same year you really know style prejudice is a thing of the past.

But if you're really having a hard time getting into it, just listen to Team Teamwork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbvPVoVicok

IDX

08-29-2010, 12:34 PM

You can say nigger until your little white heart's content. No one's stopping you. In fact, I'm sure many of this forum would view you as a "hero."

Just because you stick to the mainstream, like most all hip hop bashers, and only find the crap there doesn't mean that there isn't worthwhile hip hop elsewhere.

Wow. All this time I've been away and you haven't changed one bit. How typical of a racist.

HDHipHop1

08-29-2010, 05:19 PM

Wow. All this time I've been away and you haven't changed one bit. How typical of a racist.

If being against the white supremacy inherent in many institutes of the United States and its enablers, both white and non-white, then I guess I'm a racist to you then.

IDX

08-29-2010, 05:26 PM

You're the one throwing around the racist card before anyone else. The reason why I call you racist because you're such a fucking twat with a very large stick up your tight ass.

Shad

08-29-2010, 05:32 PM

GAY HATER!!

IDX

08-29-2010, 05:34 PM

*Gasp!!*

But I...!

08-29-2010, 06:38 PM

LOL :D IDX, I've missed you. We need to talk more!

If being against the white supremacy inherent in many institutes of the United States and its enablers, both white and non-white, then I guess I'm a racist to you then.

Also, this is an incomplete thought.

IDX

08-29-2010, 07:00 PM

We do! How have you been?? I couldn't help but notice that you were absent...elsewhere D:!

HDHipHop1

08-30-2010, 12:04 AM

You're the one throwing around the racist card before anyone else. The reason why I call you racist because you're such a fucking twat with a very large stick up your tight ass.

So, basically you call me a racist because you don't like me? Gotcha.

Also, this is an incomplete thought.

meh

08-30-2010, 12:10 AM

He calls you the racist that you are for reasons he and I have pointed out to you numerous times, but you refuse to pay them any mind. Instead you just keep your self-righteous little ego at the forefront of every single thing you say and let the truth go in one ear and out the other . . . er should I say in both eyes and out your ass.

edit: Also if you really want to keep this going with IDX and I, you should take it to PM; I'm sick of enabling you to derail threads further than you already have by fueling your fire.

edit 2: On second thought, I'd probably just die of laughter, so only PM me if you'd like my young life to be cut short.

Olde

08-30-2010, 04:11 AM

I honestly don't know why I'm going to contribute to this thread again, but whatever.

The other day, I was walking along outside and some black guy (looked somewhere between 18-20) had a portable stereo and was blasting rap music and singing along with it. I don't know what song it was, but it kept on throwing the words "goddamn" and "nigga" around and he was walking as if to say, "That's right. I sang the word 'goddamn' in public and I don't care if you don't like it." And I couldn't help but think, "This? This is the culmination of African-American culture?" (I myself am not African-American) And I'm sorry if that seems racist, but it appears to me that minorities in America want to present themselves as having an uneducated, "ghetto" culture that consciously employs the distortion of cultural values (i.e. blatantly singing the words "Goddamn" and nigga in public, singing about sex, etc.) and, among other things, the English language (I suppose it's to remove themselves from "The Man," as if being uneducated is liberating).

I'm going to be honest. I know that African-American culture has produced greater art than rap. There have been great works of literature, painting, and music by African-American artists. But I'm seeing more and more youths, both white and black, fitting in with the "it's cool to not be educated" crowd. And of course, great art requires a good education. Contemporary rap music (e.g. that of the 21st century), which is essentially speech over a drumbeat and bassline, is a quintessential example of music from uneducated "artists."

The problem, I think, about rap music is that it started off (this is only from what I gather, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am, this following statement will be completely incoherent and just plain wrong) as a form of protest against intolerable and unethical conditions to which African-Americans were subjected. By making music that was simply spoken, the message was very direct and its simplicity immediately grasped the listener's intention. It was essentially a direct confrontation between the listener and the speaker, forcing the listener to be made aware of impoverished conditions, unethical treatment from racist superiors, as well as a call to arms against these conditions/this treatment. But this kind of art (yes, primitive though it may be, I actually consider legitimate art because it was one movement among many that broke the necessity for melody) devolved over time. Before long, rappers were no longer making a call to arms to fix their living conditions and racial prejudices against them. Instead, "hot" and "raunchy" topics took over and now, well, just listen to it. This is the result of generations of uneducated lower class minorities who are trying to make money. In rap, there is no self-reflection, no transformation, no meaning, not even an imprint of the artist (save his own voice if he sings in it). Contemporary rap is an attack on the very meaning of the word art. As someone put it not too long ago:

Rap...lacks depth or intelligence.

I know that minorities are capable of a more intelligent and meaningful output, so why do they consistently come up with works devoid of meaning? Why don't they even try?

The answer is because it sells, particularly to people who can't think abstractly. Rap is comprehensible to the people who blast rap in the park or from their cars. Real art requires education and thinking on the part of the listener; even jazz, fusion, and some forms of metal do. But people without a proper education, who tend to be minorities (largely because of racism and other factors), but of course aren't exclusively minorities, don't want to buy music that makes them think. They just want something catchy, something memorable, because they can't conceptualize a real piece of art. The people who blast rap music in the park or from their cars can't see beyond the superficial layers of music. Now in actuality, most people can't do this, and there are, of course other forms of "art" that lack depth. But rap is one of the if not the most superficial form of music because it does not touch on anything profound or even with anything that occurs outside the rapper's daily life. You'll hear songs about the police and how they suck, or about sex/relationships, not about Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit or Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil. It's the superficiality that I dislike about rap music. It takes no conceptualization to understand a rap song about class struggle, for instance, let alone the more superficial topics of songs, like money and women. But does the audience of rap music want music that they have to think about? Of course not. They just want to be told more or less explicitly the main point of the song, which tends to be about something that they can relate to (or want to relate to). Do they want to have to read between the lines of a song, to think about a complex, multifaceted issue, to think about something theoretical? Or do they just want to listen to a song about things that they themselves experience and that includes profanities and culturally taboo subjects simply for the sake of using them? Obviously the latter. And as long as there's an audience that can't and doesn't even want to be able to think about music as deep self-expression and transformation of a person and people (never mind a simple multifaceted issue), there will be a kind of music that is aimed at, and profits from, them.

Shad

08-30-2010, 06:34 AM

haha that is the biggest load of arrogant self-righteous shit I have ever heard. I might write an argument against you when it's not 1:30 in the morning, but in case I don't get around to it, fuck off.

I bet you think Dream Theater's the shit.

ROKUSHO

08-30-2010, 08:27 AM

i have listened to a lot of rap, mainly cuz the neighbor hears it at top volume sometimes.
and i simply loath it, i cant stand that sorry excuse of "music" and that sorry excuse of a "song".

the ONLY song that i do like that is rap is the intro to samurai champloo, mainly for the music.

and even then, i sometimes ask myself how the fuck does that compare to "commercial" rap?

Withope

08-30-2010, 10:46 AM

I don't think it's just minorities within the USA that want to buy music that doesn't make them think. I think it is the majority of the newer generation of kids that buy music that doesn't make them think; period. Mainstream hip hop is almost strictly party music; therefore the entire genre isn't usually taken seriously; therefore it has gained a stigma of indispensable party music.

But I firmly believe that hip hop does NOT end there. Hip hop has innovated music; sampling. Sampling didn't start with hip hoppers, but it certainly took off with hip hoppers. And it evolved a lot since the days of sampling a movie quote, looping vocals, or just experimenting with recording. Sure you could argue that "these hip hop producers didn't actually create the composition. They merely stole it!" You're right. They didn't write the composition they sampled. But I think some notable musical achievements have come from sampling...

Through my exploration of hip hop producers, there are many forms of sampling. Each of them are quite distinct.

Looping:
This form of sampling is usually a mainstream use of sampling but not all of the time; sometimes it's used to give more light to the rapping. It is a one/two bar loop over and over, and there is hardly any tweaking of the sample or hardly any variety to the instrumental. This form of sampling was done a lot during the 80's and early 90's.

Examples of looping samples:
Beastie Boys - Rhymin' and Stealin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIikcGo_dgU)
Eric B. & Rakim - Microphone Fiend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPfIIn5V_LQ)
A Tribe Called Quest - Can I Kick It? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrlJX7DzLhI)
Atmosphere - 1597 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i3wE2M1BBI)

Chopping
"Chopping up" a sample refers to taking certain segments of sample - usually 1 or 2 bar loop - and creating your own rhythm (or melody) out of the sample. It gives a sort of "choppy" feel to the sample and the beat. Chopped up sample rhythm/melodies are usually looped 1 or 2 bars throughout the song.

Examples of chopping samples:
Run DMC - It's Tricky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYQV62WhkM)
Ultramagnetic MC's - Ego Trippin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAlsaFKtHuU)
7L & Esoteric - Essays of Essoterrorism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9GFK4IrXE)
Outkast - Call of Da Wild (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRP-HZDBErA)

Extensive Chopping
Sometimes producers will chop up multiple samples from multiple sources and apply them to an instrumental. Extensive chopped up samples used in instrumentals are usually looped 1 or 2 bars throughout the song as well.

For example: A brass hit from a funk song intertwined with a tremolo string from a soul track over a simple bass loop from another funk song.

Examples of extensive chopping:
Public Enemy - Bring The Noise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvy7MWjfVPE) - also incorporates polyphonic sampling
Run DMC - Beats to the Rhyme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMjLWdIFd0o) - also incorporates polyphonic sampling
Raekwon - Guillotine (Swords) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk8SMperwS8)
Gang Starr - Work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSszWXkDHa8)

Polyphonic sampling:
It's just as it sounds. Polyphonic sampling is taking one sample (usually one prominent melodic line) and layering it upon another sample (usually another prominent melodic line). Each sample is usually taken from a different source than the other sample.

For example: An intro bassline from a funk song intertwined with a solo oboe from a classical piece.

A common technique - especially during the early 90's - was to have one sample playing throughout the song and have a different sample during the chorus play over the sample that plays throughout the song.

Examples of polyphonic/poly-rhythmic sampling:
De La Soul - Me Myself & I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DzX18o-zsA)
A Tribe Called Quest - Award Tour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qapou-3-fM8)
Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth - Act Like You Know (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0zwCwDtvyc)
Pharcyde - Passin' Me By (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx8sPzacvG0)
Organized Konfusion - Stress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf6MdR-zSxA)
Jedi Mind Tricks - Executioner's Dream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waETkDTXzag)

Extensive polyphonic/poly-rhythmic sampling:
Nowadays polyphonic sampling doesn't end there. There are many samples from many different resources utilized - sometimes introducing new samples almost constantly throughout the instrumental. In fact, DJ Shadow's Entroducing was entirely created with samples; no synth and no session recordings.

One of the earliest examples of extensive polyphonic/poly-rhythmic sampling:
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full (Coldcut Remix) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Jm_O2HtdI)

Further examples:
Jurassic 5 - Swing Set (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYKRtJbRpeo)
DJ Shadow - Midnight In A Perfect World (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmzHRGoKca0)
Blockhead - Insomniac Olympics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvcHGu95XGM)
RJD2 - Ghostwriter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVqAdIMQZlk)
Amon Tobin - Slowly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPI8niO08wQ)

Sampling with accompaniment:
This form of sampling includes accompaniment by sources other than samples - usually session recordings or synth additions. Melody by the producer is more prominent through this method of sampling. Sometimes this technique is explored through hip hop along with various other genres - usually using just using a sampled drum loop (breakbeat).

Examples of sampling with accompaniment:
Outkast - Babylon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FgoiGqXmVU)
Dr. Dre - Nuthin' But A G Thang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhr5UBZh1rY)
k-os - The Love Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyRB00Xe5-E) - just a breakbeat
Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ZUHbLHMBs)
Gnarls Barkley - Crazy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe500eIK1oA)
Saul Williams - Tr(n)igger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2K0SbxnHeE)
Solillaquists of Sound - Heroes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biLl_Z1TV20)

Sampling has been explored through many other genres. Trip Hop, Drum 'n bass, & Jungle have notable producers that have sampled. Trip Hop wouldn't be trip hop if it didn't have that grimy break beat or if it didn't have that warmth (in a recording sense) that a sample supplies, dnb wouldn't be dnb if there wasn't a breakbeat with the double speed (and neither would jungle be jungle for the same reason). Hip Hop has inspired various other producers as well.

Portishead - Strangers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPHKGtVLBM8)
Saul Williams & DJ Krust - Coded Language (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HerpGwbLSM8)
Amon Tobin - Like Regular Chickens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGE_XA5pOo)
Tricky - Hell Is Around The Corner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geEzSoy3unI)
Massive Attack - Unfinished Symphony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZv9R-KWcJM)
Moby - Natural Blues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6w3s_spyKQ)
Fatboy Slim - Praise You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_1o3Qw4KM)
Goldie - Sensual (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9TasAM6WE)
Photek - ni ten ichi ryu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qJKxaWb0_A)
Chemical Brothers & k-os - Get Yourself High (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-VijzcWVUA)

Now that I've covered sampling in the actual music of hip hop, I'll post later about traditional composition (not sampling) within the music of hip hop and rappers that actually make you think and don't do their music for business reasons - like I've posted over 20 times within this thread. I'm tired now.

nightzero

08-30-2010, 12:05 PM

People just listen to mainstream and call it nigger music. I couldn't agree more. If you want the best go dig crates from the late 70's to late 90's.
As of now Underground Hip-Hop is whats keeping it original rather than whats being played today. Like ROKUSHO said the Samurai Champloo music (composed by Nujabes and others) are underground artists. The world hip-hop/rap is divided and only one side is hated.

---------- Post added at 05:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 AM ----------

I honestly don't know why I'm going to contribute to this thread again, but whatever.

The other day, I was walking along outside and some black guy (looked somewhere between 18-20) had a portable stereo and was blasting rap music and singing along with it. I don't know what song it was, but it kept on throwing the words "goddamn" and "nigga" around and he was walking as if to say, "That's right. I sang the word 'goddamn' in public and I don't care if you don't like it." And I couldn't help but think, "This? This is the culmination of African-American culture?" (I myself am not African-American) And I'm sorry if that seems racist, but it appears to me that minorities in America want to present themselves as having an uneducated, "ghetto" culture that consciously employs the distortion of cultural values (i.e. blatantly singing the words "Goddamn" and nigga in public, singing about sex, etc.) and, among other things, the English language (I suppose it's to remove themselves from "The Man," as if being uneducated is liberating).

I'm going to be honest. I know that African-American culture has produced greater art than rap. There have been great works of literature, painting, and music by African-American artists. But I'm seeing more and more youths, both white and black, fitting in with the "it's cool to not be educated" crowd. And of course, great art requires a good education. Contemporary rap music (e.g. that of the 21st century), which is essentially speech over a drumbeat and bassline, is a quintessential example of music from uneducated "artists."

The problem, I think, about rap music is that it started off (this is only from what I gather, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am, this following statement will be completely incoherent and just plain wrong) as a form of protest against intolerable and unethical conditions to which African-Americans were subjected. By making music that was simply spoken, the message was very direct and its simplicity immediately grasped the listener's intention. It was essentially a direct confrontation between the listener and the speaker, forcing the listener to be made aware of impoverished conditions, unethical treatment from racist superiors, as well as a call to arms against these conditions/this treatment. But this kind of art (yes, primitive though it may be, I actually consider legitimate art because it was one movement among many that broke the necessity for melody) devolved over time. Before long, rappers were no longer making a call to arms to fix their living conditions and racial prejudices against them. Instead, "hot" and "raunchy" topics took over and now, well, just listen to it. This is the result of generations of uneducated lower class minorities who are trying to make money. In rap, there is no self-reflection, no transformation, no meaning, not even an imprint of the artist (save his own voice if he sings in it). Contemporary rap is an attack on the very meaning of the word art. As someone put it not too long ago:

I know that minorities are capable of a more intelligent and meaningful output, so why do they consistently come up with works devoid of meaning? Why don't they even try?

The answer is because it sells, particularly to people who can't think abstractly. Rap is comprehensible to the people who blast rap in the park or from their cars. Real art requires education and thinking on the part of the listener; even jazz, fusion, and some forms of metal do. But people without a proper education, who tend to be minorities (largely because of racism and other factors), but of course aren't exclusively minorities, don't want to buy music that makes them think. They just want something catchy, something memorable, because they can't conceptualize a real piece of art. The people who blast rap music in the park or from their cars can't see beyond the superficial layers of music. Now in actuality, most people can't do this, and there are, of course other forms of "art" that lack depth. But rap is one of the if not the most superficial form of music because it does not touch on anything profound or even with anything that occurs outside the rapper's daily life. You'll hear songs about the police and how they suck, or about sex/relationships, not about Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit or Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil. It's the superficiality that I dislike about rap music. It takes no conceptualization to understand a rap song about class struggle, for instance, let alone the more superficial topics of songs, like money and women. But does the audience of rap music want music that they have to think about? Of course not. They just want to be told more or less explicitly the main point of the song, which tends to be about something that they can relate to (or want to relate to). Do they want to have to read between the lines of a song, to think about a complex, multifaceted issue, to think about something theoretical? Or do they just want to listen to a song about things that they themselves experience and that includes profanities and culturally taboo subjects simply for the sake of using them? Obviously the latter. And as long as there's an audience that can't and doesn't even want to be able to think about music as deep self-expression and transformation of a person and people (never mind a simple multifaceted issue), there will be a kind of music that is aimed at, and profits from, them.

Its all mainstream. I being African - American hate rap or hip-hop with profanity (when it comes to sex, and money.)
"Rap...lacks depth or intelligence." Again Mainstream. The same could be said about heavy metal I can barely understand a word any of them is saying. Its better just trying to find a instrumental of a HM song that I like.

Olde

08-30-2010, 04:58 PM

Its all mainstream. I being African - American hate rap or hip-hop with profanity (when it comes to sex, and money.)
"Rap...lacks depth or intelligence." Again Mainstream. The same could be said about heavy metal I can barely understand a word any of them is saying. Its better just trying to find a instrumental of a HM song that I like.

I totally agree. My extremely long-winded post was basically just to say that the audience of mainstream music likes it not for respect of true talent, artistry/creativity, or meaning/depth, but because it's simple and understandable (one can also tie in the concepts of cultural unity, social image, peer pressure, familial ties, etc. with this). There is a lot of this kind of music across all different kinds of genres (I just happen to see it in the majority of the music by contemporary rappers) and it certainly doesn't mean that one genre is superior to or more legitimate than another. They all have certain faults, to an extent.

Shad

08-30-2010, 07:33 PM

I totally agree. My extremely long-winded post was basically just to say that the audience of mainstream music likes it not for respect of true talent, artistry/creativity, or meaning/depth, but because it's simple and understandable (one can also tie in the concepts of cultural unity, social image, peer pressure, familial ties, etc. with this). There is a lot of this kind of music across all different kinds of genres (I just happen to see it in the majority of the music by contemporary rappers) and it certainly doesn't mean that one genre is superior to or more legitimate than another. They all have certain faults, to an extent.

That tiny little paragraph is infinitely more reasonable than the long ridiculous rant you posted yesterday. Now I can actually give you a proper response.

First of all, let's regulate your notion of "simple and understandable" to lyrics exclusively. To degrade the music itself for being simple is a complete farce. Much brilliance has risen from glorifying the simple; indeed most of my favorite artists have made their mark imbuing creativity and diversity in "simplistic" music. Conversely, musical complexity has often been employed as an unintended mask for a creative void. It is easier for an average person to study music theory and write a very complex work than for an average person to summon up the "creative spirit" if you will to add a deep emotional charge to a simple three chord progression.

Moving on, "mainstream" refers to a business, not an art. An artist, whether skilled or wretched, is chosen by a commercial organization for their marketability and granted this classification. That "mainstream" tends to denote poor quality in almost every genre is, I think, more a result of a skilled artist's mentality than anything else. The more inspired the will to create, the less willing the creator to conform to strict business regulations and oversight. (The surge and subsequent demise of quality mainstream music in the 90s might testify to this; the moment the internet picked up enough steam for musicians to market themselves, the willingness to go "mainstream" diminished.)

So why is everyone so critical of hip-hop? Or a more revealing question; why are people less critical of other genres? Listening to currently popular pop, rock, or metal on the radio will reveal most of the same themes that hip-hop has been demeaned herein for promoting.

I think the hip-hop-bashers in this thread have heard enough diversity in the genres they tend towards to say "Yes, its mainstream might be garbage too, but the vast majority of what the style has to offer isn't." It helps, again, that the 90s briefly showcased quality rock music. With hip-hop people here say the same thing with a shift on the focus; yes, there are probably a lot of good artists out there, but the mainstream is so horrible!

Until you have delved into the genre, you have no right to criticize it as a whole, and if you are criticizing only the mainstream it is a preposterous oversight to limit your argument to hip-hop and ignore all the other trash out there - trash that labels itself a genre you probably enjoy.

Or is this a question of morals? Is the complaint that the hip-hop mainstream glorifies sex and violence less subtly than say, Nickleback or Toby Keith? Be that the case I'd have to regard hip-hop mainstream the more intellectual genre. At least its artists aren't in denial.

And I have to refer back to that first post at least once. Are you seriously criticizing hip-hop for distorting the English language? Are you honestly labeling it "uneducated" because of this? Like codified language is remotely natural.... The day I attain a level of "education" that makes me feel guilty for using slang in informal speech I've really lost touch with life.

Yikes, I'm late. I might follow this up/edit it/delete it later.

IDX

08-30-2010, 09:59 PM

The other day, I was walking along outside and some black guy (looked somewhere between 18-20) had a portable stereo and was blasting rap music and singing along with it.

Take what you said right here, subtract the radio, and you'll have the majority of young people (around 15-25) in my area who listen to this crap in a nutshell. You can't take a nice little walk without coming across someone who is just rapping for no reason like he's at some kind of concert (which means rather loudly). And they aren't listening to headphone because almost all of them weren't wearing any when doing this. I find it highly annoying. I've never come across anyone else screaming to death metal that no one hears or Lady GaGa while walking down the street or anything.

To those of you who do what I just said, do EVERYONE a favor and SHUT UP!!

08-30-2010, 10:11 PM

Shad

08-31-2010, 12:49 AM

Black Metal
How to not make money in the music industry without making any music

IDX

08-31-2010, 01:39 AM

One thing I like about metal: there are MANY types of it :D

Withope

08-31-2010, 03:31 AM

Don't worry. CC prefers ignorance and apathy. It's like the new cool thing.

08-31-2010, 03:42 AM

It's cool because I made it cool!

IDX

08-31-2010, 04:31 AM

The same could be said about heavy metal I can barely understand a word any of them is saying.
I used to be like that but I rarely listen to music for the lyrics being a guitar player myself. The bands I consider my favorite is because I like their music, not their lyrics (which is why I think Insane Clown Posse sucks ass even though my friend says their lyrics are good. No point in listening if the music sucks ass right?). But after a while you do start to understand what they're saying. I guess you just have to get used to it. Either that or I just never paid much attention to what was being said and I would've understood them anyways.

08-31-2010, 03:11 PM

Metal is more about a expulsion of aggression for me; bands like As I Lay Dying, Bullet for my Valentine, Chimaira etc. are ones where I don't understand a word being said a lot of the time but the music still moves me and helps me through things like working out, or long bus rides through town. When I'm in a bad mood it helps me come to terms with the situation and dispel my anger without snagging a machine gun and climbing the tallest building in town while screaming profanities in sight like I sometimes would rather do (not really . . . I don't think). Rap . . . just brightens my mood by making me laugh hysterically.

Olde

09-01-2010, 04:22 AM

First of all, let's regulate your notion of "simple and understandable" to lyrics exclusively. To degrade the music itself for being simple is a complete farce. Much brilliance has risen from glorifying the simple; indeed most of my favorite artists have made their mark imbuing creativity and diversity in "simplistic" music. Conversely, musical complexity has often been employed as an unintended mask for a creative void. It is easier for an average person to study music theory and write a very complex work than for an average person to summon up the "creative spirit" if you will to add a deep emotional charge to a simple three chord progression.

I disagree and I can speak from personal experience. Before I learned music theory, I was writing music left and right, music that I thought just sounded good, sounded right. But since then, my color palette has expanded significantly, so much so that it requires a great deal of concentration, inventiveness, and inspiration to compose a more complex piece of music. Furthermore, creativity has no influence if the artist is simply reiterating one of the same five chord progressions that have been ingrained in our minds since childhood. Coming up with a good melody and making it undergo transformations through development is what has been at the heart of music for me, and I know that we may disagree on that, and if you like the constant I-IV-V-I progression in a newly released song, I can't help that. But it's nothing we haven't heard a hundred times before, and is that really creative, really inspired?

Moving on, "mainstream" refers to a business, not an art. An artist, whether skilled or wretched, is chosen by a commercial organization for their marketability and granted this classification. That "mainstream" tends to denote poor quality in almost every genre is, I think, more a result of a skilled artist's mentality than anything else. The more inspired the will to create, the less willing the creator to conform to strict business regulations and oversight. So why is everyone so critical of hip-hop? Or a more revealing question; why are people less critical of other genres? Listening to currently popular pop, rock, or metal on the radio will reveal most of the same themes that hip-hop has been demeaned herein for promoting.

You're right, "mainstream" music is a blanket term. It should mean popular, but has come to mean something along the lines of: the music that achieves the most radio-play, that reaches highest billboard charts, that result in frequently played music videos on VH1 and the like, and eventually having the connotation of meaning poor quality. Is mainstream music really poor quality? And if so, then why is it so popular? These are the questions whose answers upon which we disagree. Obviously they're popular enough to be liked, and people who like "mainstream" music would probably not call it poor quality. But there are aspects of what the populace likes that indeed lack quality. What does lacking quality mean, though, and how can we determine if a piece does or does not lack quality? These are aesthetic questions, and I surely can't formulate an answer to them, although I know that answers do exist in the writings of literary, art, and music scholars. What is necessary, however, is a way (hopefully more than just one) to delineate between good and bad music. After all, how can a teacher tell a student that a piece of music needs revision??? Of course, I don't want to "prove" that all mainstream music or rap is of poor quality, because as you and I both know, that isn't the case. Why would mainstream music be liked in the first place? Unless maybe the populace can't tell between good and bad music............................which, honestly, I think may be the reason why. But then again, not even being able to give an explanation between music good quality and bad quality (and not just talking about music theory complexity) makes me look kind of absurd, doesn't it?

I think the hip-hop-bashers in this thread have heard enough diversity in the genres they tend towards to say "Yes, its mainstream might be garbage too, but the vast majority of what the style has to offer isn't.

Unless the vast majority of the genres is mainstream. Are they? I wouldn't know, mostly because the only exposure I get to it is through briefly stopping on it when it plays on TV or when hearing it played in public.

"yes, there are probably a lot of good artists out there, but the mainstream is so horrible!" Until you have delved into the genre, you have no right to criticize it as a whole, and if you are criticizing only the mainstream it is a preposterous oversight to limit your argument to hip-hop and ignore all the other trash out there - trash that labels itself a genre you probably enjoy.

You're right, I haven't heard every single hip-hop artist who has recorded an album. You're right, I don't really make an attempt to familiarize myself with as broad a background of hip-hop as someone else might. But do I have to have heard every baroque opera to know one when I hear it, and know certain stylistic features of it? Do I have to see a painting by every Impressionist painter to know one when I see one and identify its stylistic traits? Although every composer, author, painter, choreographer, and artist is different (as every human is), the reason why artworks are classified in genres is because they share features of style. Surely you can't deny that the genre of hip-hop music emphasizes a beat with a strong pulse, with practically no changing meter, right? And if a stylistic feature (here I'm thinking outside of practically unchanging meter, beat, and pulse) ended up being something that takes away from the quality of music via a method of analysis that I admittedly can't formulate (but whose existence I am extremely inclined to justify), then would it not be true that the entire genre partakes of a quality-reducing feature?

Or is this a question of morals? Is the complaint that the hip-hop mainstream glorifies sex and violence less subtly than say, Nickleback or Toby Keith? Be that the case I'd have to regard hip-hop mainstream the more intellectual genre. At least its artists aren't in denial.

I'll have to take your word on the Nickleback and Toby Keith thing (I know, this only makes my ignorance of the genre more apparent), but be that as it may, I think we're all aware of the increasing references to the need for sex, violence, drug use, and money. Would popularizing these themes and make them a part of our culture and atmosphere to deny their an inherent wrongness to them? In other words, would they be justified? What would happen to society that formed on the basis of thinking that the only things that matter in the world are money, power, and sex, and if someone tries to take it from you, just kill 'em. Wow, a real utopia. Of course, not all music has to be culturally enhancing, but where do you draw the line between reinforcing good values and bad ones, especially where the songs with very few apparent moral values are so prevalent in today's society?

And I have to refer back to that first post at least once. Are you seriously criticizing hip-hop for distorting the English language? Are you honestly labeling it "uneducated" because of this? Like codified language is remotely natural.... The day I attain a level of "education" that makes me feel guilty for using slang in informal speech I've really lost touch with life.

There's nothing I can say hear to which someone won't say I'm being racist, even though it's well-known that minorities in America receive (and take advantage of) less opportunities for education than do whites in America. And to say that African American Vernacular English is not a distortion of the English language is a lie, or else there wouldn't be a different term for it. I'm certainly not saying that hip-hop and rap started African American Vernacular, but you have to admit, most rappers don't hold college degrees, right? And having a college degree is a symbol of having attained a certain level of higher education, higher knowledge of, among other things, proper usage of the English language, right? And a lot of rap lyrics are written in a distortion of the English language. That's all I meant to say.

Shad

09-03-2010, 10:15 PM

I posted up an epically long reply here and then realized you're just trolling me. forums.ffshrine.org/f58/what-concerts-have-you-been-74865/#post1453916 (http://forums.ffshrine.org/f58/what-concerts-have-you-been-74865/#post1453916) :\

Olde

09-03-2010, 10:42 PM

What, that's not a legitimate post I made five months ago? I don't even know who you are. Remember YOU responded to MY post. Besides, your first post told me to fuck off. So who's the troll?

Oh, and by the way, what we're differing on is what we call music. I know there's music that makes for good atmosphere, like metal or rap or hip-hop or alternative or new age, but isn't what I'd call art. That's not really meant to be listened to, or comprehended, in the same way as, say, a piano sonata is. I take the stance that Arnold Schoenberg takes: "Music, says Schoenberg, is not a kind of entertainment but a musical poet's or thinker's presentation of musical ideas, ideas that are a part of what man can apperceive, reason, and express...Schoenberg, in distinguishing music from entertainment or play, characterizes art as a kind of knowledge. He speaks of the musical work as the 'artist's message.'" (Commentary on The Musical Idea and the Logic, Technique, and Art of its Presentation by Arnold Schoenberg, Indiana University Press, 2006) So if you consider farting into a microphone to be "music" then fine, but don't try to justify it to anyone as real art.

IDX

09-04-2010, 08:41 PM

The thing about what is "art" differs from person to person. That's why when I see someone say "I don't believe metal is art but pop is" or something like that I can't seem to take them seriously anymore. Some people consider grabbing random junk from a junkyard and putting them together as art. To me it's just junk and frankly that's all I care about.

Shad

09-05-2010, 02:52 AM

art
-noun
2. - the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria

^ The implied definition unless otherwise stated, because it's the most encompassing.

An arrangement of random junk is art. It's just really really crappy art.

09-05-2010, 03:00 AM

'Art' is a . . . point of view, Anakin.

IDX

09-05-2010, 01:59 PM

xuu

09-14-2010, 10:01 PM

but I hate Rap because its lacks depth or intelligence. Most "artists" make up words to rhyme because they lack the vocabulary skills (so it seems) to properly use a dictionary. Think about it rap was originally a form of poetry that conveyed feelings/topics. When is the last time any of these rappers used their "art form" to talk about things that matter in life? Its always about drugs, sex, hoes and stupid other things that are considered part of the "average African American" stereotype. As soon as P.Diddy and his ilk came in it went to hell really quick. Retards Attempting Poetry (RAP).

I have to concur because this is the case with most Rappers. Now I'll presume you have a thorough understanding of Hip Hop & and the difference between a Emcee & a Rapper, and that you're not speaking of both with the same term.

A Hip Hop thread will have to be spawned if we're technically speaking i.e. The world of Rap Music & The world of Hip Hop, confusion can easily occur :parrot:

Just to make it crystal clear, there's a difference between Hip Hop culture & Rap Music, and the initial purpose of Hip Hops creation is of a great one and is in conjunction with movements that promote Peace, Unity, Love, Having Fun, CREATION.

One's judgement can only be rendered viable when one fully understands the situation from all perspectives and not just the perspective One is accustomed to since birth on Earth. We don't make unjust decisive conclusions on people only by using common stereotypes i.e. PREJUDICE.(Well, we probably still do in 2010), so why do it with any controversial subject i.e. Paranormal, Homosexuals, War, Drugs, Hip Hop, Religion, Visitors from the void, and what have you?

"Are you positive or are you not?" - KRS ONE
KRS intvw. his purpose in hip hop from the beginning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEcEu4y7PjI)
"This is the mighty Hip Hop culture, don't let nobody tell you nothing different. Hip Hop culture. You, me, us, together in One consciousness, in God yall, in God yall" - KRS ONE

Good day. Peace to all :laugh:

Just to make it crystal clear, there's a difference between Hip Hop culture & Rap Music

Withope

09-15-2010, 06:28 AM

xuu,

respect to krs, but that whole rap vs. hip hop argument is dead. it doesn't matter any more.

---------- Post added at 12:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 AM ----------

What, that's not a legitimate post I made five months ago? I don't even know who you are. Remember YOU responded to MY post. Besides, your first post told me to fuck off. So who's the troll?

Oh, and by the way, what we're differing on is what we call music. I know there's music that makes for good atmosphere, like metal or rap or hip-hop or alternative or new age, but isn't what I'd call art. That's not really meant to be listened to, or comprehended, in the same way as, say, a piano sonata is. I take the stance that Arnold Schoenberg takes: "Music, says Schoenberg, is not a kind of entertainment but a musical poet's or thinker's presentation of musical ideas, ideas that are a part of what man can apperceive, reason, and express...Schoenberg, in distinguishing music from entertainment or play, characterizes art as a kind of knowledge. He speaks of the musical work as the 'artist's message.'" (Commentary on The Musical Idea and the Logic, Technique, and Art of its Presentation by Arnold Schoenberg, Indiana University Press, 2006) So if you consider farting into a microphone to be "music" then fine, but don't try to justify it to anyone as real art.

who is to say what is to be listened to? if i can really feel a piece of music then i consider it good music. i'm not gonna sit there and over-analyze the piece of music for enjoyment (that's not to say there isn't something to be gained from doing so but that's not why i listen to music). right now, i take mood/emotion away from music; not analysis of each note. not to say my perspective on music is the right one that every single person on this planet should agree to, but it's certainly the perspective i enjoy.

09-15-2010, 03:09 PM

I have to concur because this is the case with most Rappers. Now I'll presume you have a thorough understanding of Hip Hop & and the difference between a Emcee & a Rapper, and that you're not speaking of both with the same term.

A Hip Hop thread will have to be spawned if we're technically speaking i.e. The world of Rap Music & The world of Hip Hop, confusion can easily occur :parrot:

Just to make it crystal clear, there's a difference between Hip Hop culture & Rap Music, and the initial purpose of Hip Hops creation is of a great one and is in conjunction with movements that promote Peace, Unity, Love, Having Fun, CREATION.

One's judgement can only be rendered viable when one fully understands the situation from all perspectives and not just the perspective One is accustomed to since birth on Earth. We don't make unjust decisive conclusions on people only by using common stereotypes i.e. PREJUDICE.(Well, we probably still do in 2010), so why do it with any controversial subject i.e. Paranormal, Homosexuals, War, Drugs, Hip Hop, Religion, Visitors from the void, and what have you?

"Are you positive or are you not?" - KRS ONE
KRS intvw. his purpose in hip hop from the beginning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEcEu4y7PjI)
"This is the mighty Hip Hop culture, don't let nobody tell you nothing different. Hip Hop culture. You, me, us, together in One consciousness, in God yall, in God yall" - KRS ONE

Good day. Peace to all :laugh:

Just to make it crystal clear, there's a difference between Hip Hop culture & Rap Music

There is much truth to these words. And no, the argument is not dead. It will never end.

Majingundam

09-17-2010, 11:49 PM

cuz no one know about the underground stuff. they only care about the stuff idiots play on the radio

IDX

09-18-2010, 11:13 AM

Because like most people who have grown out of the mainstream stuff, they listen to what they want on their iPods. Take me for example; I NEVER listen to the radio and what's on my iPod (or whatever you guys use) is the music I listen to. The only rap song on it is the one that has Eminem and Marylin Manson in it. Otherwise, you'll get nothing but metal, tad bit of screemo, soundtracks (not a lot), and techno/trance. No need to listen to some boring ass shit on the radio like a "boring radio rock" band like Craptallica.

Withope

09-20-2010, 04:05 AM

IDX, I think it's great that the internet certainly offers an endless platter of music to pick from, but most of the population (in the USA) still gravitate towards the mainstream outlets (be it internet, television, or radio) for music.

aces4839

09-20-2010, 05:19 AM

i remember at an online site i play, one profile read that someone doesnt like rap music cause its "retards attempting poetry". i could understand, though. me, however, im ok with rap music.

Withope

09-20-2010, 05:56 AM

I disagree and I can speak from personal experience. Before I learned music theory, I was writing music left and right, music that I thought just sounded good, sounded right. But since then, my color palette has expanded significantly, so much so that it requires a great deal of concentration, inventiveness, and inspiration to compose a more complex piece of music. Furthermore, creativity has no influence if the artist is simply reiterating one of the same five chord progressions that have been ingrained in our minds since childhood. Coming up with a good melody and making it undergo transformations through development is what has been at the heart of music for me, and I know that we may disagree on that, and if you like the constant I-IV-V-I progression in a newly released song, I can't help that. But it's nothing we haven't heard a hundred times before, and is that really creative, really inspired?

I think there are a few other reasons - beyond melody and harmony - that people enjoy music. I, for one, tend to enjoy varying tone color. And although a lot of POPULAR music - mostly POPULAR hip hop - exhibits a very limited palette of instruments (loud synth lead, 30-60 HZ sub bass, loud digital drum kit, auto-tuned vocals, etc), the actual tone of the instruments may be the reason people like it as well. Rhythm is also very apparent in hip hop music. From the flow - or cadence - of the rapper to the scratching by the turntablist.

Here is a rapper exhibiting his flow - I think - quite well:
Tonedeff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxGaa26FXg)

Here is a turntablist scratching:
DJ Q-Bert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKD0dJvaPOU)

And do effects - which either temporarily or eternally alters tone color within the composition - not have an effect on why people like modern music? I say yes.

You're right, I haven't heard every single hip-hop artist who has recorded an album. You're right, I don't really make an attempt to familiarize myself with as broad a background of hip-hop as someone else might. But do I have to have heard every baroque opera to know one when I hear it, and know certain stylistic features of it? Do I have to see a painting by every Impressionist painter to know one when I see one and identify its stylistic traits? Although every composer, author, painter, choreographer, and artist is different (as every human is), the reason why artworks are classified in genres is because they share features of style. Surely you can't deny that the genre of hip-hop music emphasizes a beat with a strong pulse, with practically no changing meter, right? And if a stylistic feature (here I'm thinking outside of practically unchanging meter, beat, and pulse) ended up being something that takes away from the quality of music via a method of analysis that I admittedly can't formulate (but whose existence I am extremely inclined to justify), then would it not be true that the entire genre partakes of a quality-reducing feature?

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but It seems you're generating an opinion on a very limited view of hip hop.

So what stylistic feature beyond unchanging meter, beat, and pulse is hip hop taking away from the quality of music? Which I find silly because I believe every genre offers something new to the table.

I'll have to take your word on the Nickleback and Toby Keith thing (I know, this only makes my ignorance of the genre more apparent), but be that as it may, I think we're all aware of the increasing references to the need for sex, violence, drug use, and money. Would popularizing these themes and make them a part of our culture and atmosphere to deny their an inherent wrongness to them? In other words, would they be justified? What would happen to society that formed on the basis of thinking that the only things that matter in the world are money, power, and sex, and if someone tries to take it from you, just kill 'em. Wow, a real utopia. Of course, not all music has to be culturally enhancing, but where do you draw the line between reinforcing good values and bad ones, especially where the songs with very few apparent moral values are so prevalent in today's society?

There are increasing references to sex, violence, drug use, and money within mainstream hip hop artists and within a few underground hip hop artists. But I think you fail to see there are A LOT of rappers that do not even mention such topics - and if they do, they are criticizing it. Here are a few rappers/groups that do not fit the mold:

k-os (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0wEkqCWoWg)
Sage Francis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA8hzUDXvtk)
Saul Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJep-kNitUU)
P.O.S. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OpHJUJIrpU)
Solillaquists of Sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvH4UIDMEQ)
Sole & The Skyrider Band (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFwQ_FueJ2k)
Subtle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9zxWgChks)
El-P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HQQduZxVDc)
Aesop Rock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hChKXNpoPI8)
Atmosphere (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbEwHJX95QE)

Majingundam

09-20-2010, 06:46 AM

There are increasing references to sex, violence, drug use, and money within mainstream hip hop artists and within a few underground hip hop artists. But I think you fail to see there are A LOT of rappers that do not even mention such topics - and if they do, they are criticizing it. Here are a few rappers/groups that do not fit the mold:

k-os (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0wEkqCWoWg)
Sage Francis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA8hzUDXvtk)
Saul Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJep-kNitUU)
P.O.S. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OpHJUJIrpU)
Solillaquists of Sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvH4UIDMEQ)
Sole & The Skyrider Band (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFwQ_FueJ2k)
Subtle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9zxWgChks)
El-P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HQQduZxVDc)
Aesop Rock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hChKXNpoPI8)
Atmosphere (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbEwHJX95QE)

seee. underground hiphop. thats the real stuff. here download thisdefinitive swim (http://www.adultswim.com/music/defswim/index.html)
and check out

mf doom
mos def
talib kweli
....

IDX

09-25-2010, 10:22 PM

A friend of mine got back from Afghanistan and he digs ICP. I must say that listening to it nonstop since he's been back, I'm starting to get into it myself. He's right about the lyrics. I guess I've changed since he's been back because I don't listen to that kinda stuff on my own and he has a few other nonmainstream artists of a similar genre on his iPod that I can get into when normally I wouldn't give the time of day.

HDHipHop1

02-28-2011, 06:04 AM

Peoples thinks about the Rap, that Rap makes the mind bland. It robs you of love, spirit and creativity, and that's all some people seem to listen to anymore.

??????

IDX

02-28-2011, 08:33 PM

I read that post. It's gone now.

DarkStill

04-02-2011, 08:00 AM

another reason for you all to hate rap music (peep the sample. HAHAHAHA!!!)

YouTube - Wiz Khalifa - Never Been (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0z7OCaiByw)

at this point, i don't care if none of you like rap/hip hop or not. maybe it's just not for you; if not ever or just at this point in time.

people acting like being a college graduate is a qualification for popular music. #cmonson most popular (blues, jazz, rock n roll is actually slang for sex. bobby brown had it right with that song) music is anti-establishment anyway. so why single out rap? because they rely on drum machines and samples, and they're unoriginal for that? man, please. EVERYBODY BORROWS FROM EVERYBODY. even the videogames you cherish so much are influenced by other stories. no one complains when the simpsons, south park, family guy, or quentin tarantino "borrow". they're just showing their "influences". however, even tho the genre is global, since rap/hip hop is synonymous with black american culture (to some of you that may seem oxymoronic, but most of the music you enjoy was influenced by blues), they consider how the music is made "stealing".

Despite

04-02-2011, 08:05 AM

When it comes to hip hop all I got to say is this:

YouTube - Organized Konfusion-Releasing Hypnotical Gases (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySmdcta_uSg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO0EWrnsbOY

If you cannot respect that as musical talent then I am sorry, there's not something wrong with hip hop but there's something wrong with YOU.

HDHipHop1

04-02-2011, 08:46 AM

Thank you for posting this, Despite.

Withope

04-05-2011, 06:07 AM

two of the most ridiculous O.K. songs. god damnit, pharoahe. has anyone been able to live up this flow today??

ultima_tales

04-05-2011, 04:15 PM

I think rap only has one name. The reason its hated is because:

There is only 1 Tupac. And there are a million posers. Therefore since the white man can't rap. I assume the over-convulsive population of Bieberhead emos, will forever raise the hate of rap.

Then again I think DMX is another one of the rappers that lives on to the true rap as an ideological fight.

I think there is a big difference in Rap and Beatmaking though. For me: Jayz, Timbaland and Busta Rhymes are more beatmakers, than rappers.

Wu Tang Clan is good but their songs don't have a message to me. And their more hip hop than rap if I'm correct. Old school anyways, but good in their style.

Eminem is in eternal recovery. So he doesn't count. xD

50 cent is a cash mashine. But he is cool I have to admit. Respekt for his style, especially since he's the most skilled playa' out of them all! :D

Lil Wayne;;; skill as producer;; but not a rapper I would call. Maybe I'm wrong. He is a commercial genius.

Snoop Dawg, I don't like this dude, period.

In a nutshell: Tupac> The Rest

Davirus

04-05-2011, 05:50 PM

Because it is not music?

C`mon, anyone who say "50 cent its awesome" its a huge moron, and Im wonder why are you here since I think mostly people around this forum know how to appreciate music.

My only one and maybe the most obvious reason why Rap sucks, its because mostly rap "artist" do not compose their music, they are just singers.

If their voice its so awesome, if the band group only carry the singer name, its the voice its everything, then remove the damn instruments and sell their CD, then... what you got? trash.

Thats what they are selling... even more pathetic, thats what a lot of people buy.

Im glad to see no body mentioned Snoop Dog, pure crap.

ultima_tales

04-05-2011, 06:46 PM

Stop being frustrated. :p

Calling choices out for people and labeling them morons is as stupid as living a lifestyle listening to Nightwish while playing World of Warcraft or any other stereotype videogame label music. . . related to rpg super mario or whatever; not related at all. :p But still, regardless of the choice, it's nice to respect others choices.

Maybe one reason you don't like rap is because you refute the ideology of the streets. Or whatever, you might be the rock n' roll of the dying 60s type. Doesn't matter.

Rap takes a lot of skill to master.

It's the combination of lyrics, poetry, emotion and simple riffs used efficiently. There are in fact songs in rap/hip hop more complicated to make than the average progressive rock or whatever. On the plan of sound engineering; some producers are really masters.

It's also a lifestyle. If you never lived a life where you see the worst happen and where you can't find solutions, or such situations where you are tempted to take the worst path. Then it's probably not rap that is for you. That's why I don't like the noble posers who don't suffer and think they can make notoriety with being the visual posing male sluts of rap.

I find rap to be way more related to me than some rock'n'roll of the 60s which I wasn't even born with.

Davirus

04-06-2011, 03:41 AM

Yeah, the "magic" in the music is done by their producers, not by the artist its self.

ultima_tales

04-06-2011, 12:53 PM

Producer is an art, performer is an art. There are people who can do both. I respect those.

I know a guy who is a professional producer and works on major records. He does several styles like in pop-rock, folk, hop hop, and some disco/dance music. He has produced a song for Inna. She is pretty famous. Anyways, his favorite music to produce is hip hop/ working with rap artists.

Usually why?

First of all their attitude.

They are usually people who will give you respect and who won't go bragging about acapella queer-singing abilities, like some singers often do. :p Of course, there are talented people who know what their here for. But then you have 80% of the actual people going to studios who are rookies with no skill. Then the producer is forced to tell the singer how to sing normally. Those people need singing classes and 3 more years of experience until they make a song. It's stereotype truth. :p

Don't know if you've been into a recording studio. I've been myself to a couple; none too impressive though. Some make those variety jazz songs, some make rap, some make general.

I think a general studio with a range of styles is the best, the most professional.

Hip-Hop/ Rap is the funniest studios, I claim. Because there is usually a crew of people around their 20s just hanging around producing nothing (somehow the work gets done though :D). It's the type of environment that's the most fun to work with. Just grab a beer and work 2-3 hours on lyrics. Then produce by lyirics or produce a beat. Then again that's the stereotype. :p Even if you don't know rap you can fit in, the people are cool and relaxed. Except if its the studio belonging to some "Mad Dawg" or "R3AL KILL4H" then you might wanna watch out. :p

Variety studios are for oldies, usually they make jazz music. Either the father of the producer was famous in the 70s, or his sons realized his dream of continuing the tradition. You get bored easily there. It can be fun if they let you look at the gear/stuff but usually they won't. Like anyone else pretty much.

But yes, rap has a lot of weak performers. Still in the case of 50cent, Eminem, Busta Rhymes, Timbaland, Wutang Clan, and especially Tupac: They are masters of the style. Whether producers or not. They are lyric machines who you can talk to for hours and they will find you a kick ass rhyme or work out an entire song improvised in front of you. I even have a friend from a Rural background who's never lived in a Major city, never seen any of the bad stuff, who can actually do that. So imagine what they can do.

I can't do that. And I know the circle of fifths by heart, I use modal harmony and some laws of counterpoint in making music. My style is predominantly classical and light rock. But still I can't do what they do in rhymes. Its a whole other study. A whole other world. I just sound fail when I try to rap. That's why I respect both the performers and the producers.

EDIT: Also wanted to mention have you heard any of Nobuo Uematsu's tracks for final fantasy? ( I assume since you're here; Non battle, Non Major themes? Like those moments of confusion, distress, with a groovy lowsounding keyboard or the evil character themes? )

Opressed People from FF7.
Underneath the Rotting Pizza from FF7.
Turks Theme from FF7.
Residents from FF8.
Jailed from FF8.
Under Her Control from FF8.
Pandemonium from FF9.
Sword of Doubt from FF9.
One Danger Put Behind us from FF9.

All of these themes could be edited a bit and would sound very hip hop/rap. In fact with a little time-change you could easily start reciting lines right away on some of them. You can try doing that if you want. Most of them should work provided you can follow the beat correctly lyrically. Can be fun to try.

DarkStill

04-14-2011, 07:19 AM

another sample (ironically from the same game)

http://youtu.be/0ZbS0DG9YrA

Withope

04-17-2011, 06:28 AM

I can see why people would say hip hop artists/rappers aren't making music because there is no melody to rapping nor are there many hip hop bands (that use traditional rock instruments); however you are dismissing the rhythm of the rapper (or as us hip hoppers like to call it; "flow").

Let's not even talk about the lyrical content so much. Let's just focus on the "flow" and the rhyme scheme of the rapper, k?

Pharoahe Monch's (of Organized Konfusion) 2nd verse from "Prisoners of War" is one example of great rhythmic intricacy.

Organized Konfusion - Prisoners of War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO0EWrnsbOY#t=02m00s)

Could just any joe shmo do this?

Now let's take a look at Tonedeff. Known for his 4-4 to 6-8 flow.

Tonedeff - Champions Freestyle (http://youtu.be/PeWMrxzCNx8)

K.

Eminem has already been mentioned, but I think he deserves another mention because he has one of the best flows in the genre.

Eminem - The Way I Am (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTRhTWFAnI)

And I just have to mention Rakim. Way ahead of his time with the flow.

Eric B. & Rakim - Follow The Leader (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLokvR5UsQQ)

Now if you did take the time to listen to these tracks and you are still convinced that any joe shmo can do this, then so be it.

So your qualm is that a rapper does not also provide the music? Little do you know, a good amount of rappers also produce their own music. Here is the most prime example of a rapper/producer:

k-os - 4 3 2 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRlzM4a1ll0)

And Snoop Dogg was great back in his hay day..Great flow.

Andrew Dustill

04-18-2011, 06:30 PM

Well I don't hate rap music. I hate nu skool hiphop.

DarkStill

06-04-2011, 07:35 PM

ultima, you kinda got the right idea:

Therefore since the white man can't rap...
there are several caucasian emcees in the game doing incredibly well lyrically if not successfully.

I think there is a big difference in Rap and Beatmaking though. For me: Jayz, Timbaland and Busta Rhymes are more beatmakers, than rappers.
of the people you mentioned, only timbaland is the beatmaker. in terms of beat selection, jay and bussa buss do a good job.

Wu Tang Clan is good but their songs don't have a message to me.
as a group, songs like "tearz" and "a better tomorrow" have definite messages. GZA's solo albums always have a couple songs with messages in them (lyrics: "i got ya back/so you best to watch your front/cuz it's the n*ggas who front that be pullin' stunts")

and to Davirus:

Yeah, the "magic" in the music is done by their producers, not by the artist its self.

rock bands have producers as well. video game projects have producers. all types of movie projects have producers. so what's your point? producers oversee how the project is supposed to turn out. and a producer's role in hip hop is no difterent.

Because it is not music?

anything set to a rhythm is considered music. you know, like how on those old-school musicals when they make rhythms out of random objects (ie brushes, a bubbling effect from water, somebody washing something) and then it becomes a song? c'mon sir, you're gonna have to do better than that.

C`mon, anyone who say "50 cent its awesome" its a huge moron, and Im wonder why are you here since I think mostly people around this forum know how to appreciate music.

listen to "how to rob" where he talks about how he would rob famous rappers (all in jest mind you; as indicated by the chorus). this was waaay before he was as big as he is now.

My only one and maybe the most obvious reason why Rap sucks, its because mostly rap "artist" do not compose their music, they are just singers.

If their voice its so awesome, if the band group only carry the singer name, its the voice its everything, then remove the damn instruments and sell their CD, then... what you got? trash.

1) the process of writing and/or performing TO ANY RHYTHM or even acapella in rhythm could be considered music. do you think instruments was created out of thin air or something?

2) look up "slam poetry" on youtube. it IS rap without music. and there are many rappers who partake in slam poetry; many of them were on def poetry on HBO (hosted by mos def). you're probably one of those who sided with sarah palin and fox news when they were trying to accuse common (http://youtu.be/C99iG4HoO1c) of being a domestic terrorist who didn't deserve to visit the white house to do a poetry meeting.

Im glad to see no body mentioned Snoop Dog, pure crap.

when you can make a whole, coherent song OFF OF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD, (http://youtu.be/qM4jmjhYH_I) i'll respect your opinion.