*deleted*

Final Fantasy VI
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
Nier
Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Metal Gear Solid (series)
Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy VIII (I seriously love subtle story telling)
Simpsons Hit & Run (LOL)

I can't think of any others atm, i know there are plenty others though.

metal gear solid 3
chrono cross
zelda ALTTP
warcraft 2
fallout 3
resident evil 2
call of duty 5
unreal tournament
shenmue/2

I suppose no game will ever be absolutely perfect, and some classics have dated so badly, its best to remember them from afar now. But still, these are the games that have really meant a lot to me, down the years.

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past.
Street Fighter 2.
Star Wars: TIE Fighter.
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2.
Mass Effect 1.
R-Type.
Resident Evil 1 (Gamecube Remake).
Resident Evil: Code Veronica.
F-Zero.
Star Ocean: Til the End of Time.
Super Bomberman.
Professor Layton + The Curious Village.
Flashback.
Final Fantasy 7.
Final Fantasy 8.
Final Fantasy 12.
Super Mario Bros. 3.
Super Mario World.
Super Castlevania 4.
Dead Space 1.
Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers.
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
Eternal Darkness.
Quest for Glory 4: Shadows of Darkness.
Super Metroid.
Killzone 2.
Metroid Prime 1.
Halo 1.
Silent Hill 2.
Deadly Premonition.
Eye of the Beholder 1+2.
Bioshock 1.
Killer 7.
Doom 2.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney.
Advance Wars: Dual Strike.
Wing Commander 1+2.
Total Annihilation.
Fallout: New Vegas.
Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion.
Super Mario Kart.
Dune 2.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the scrolling beat em up version from the Arcades).
Dreamweb.
Command + Conquer 1.
Command + Conquer: Red Alert 1.
Forbidden Siren 1+2.
Mortal Kombat 2.
Starfox 64.
Soul Calibur 2.
Goldeneye 007.
Elite.
Metal Gear Solid 1.
Valkyria Chronicles.
Batman: Arkham Asylum.
Dragon Age: Origins.


Inevitably, I'm bound to have left something off this list. But that's enough to be going on with, I think.

I can't really come up with anything I think is perfect. I can think of games that are my favourite within a genre, but I don't really want to get into that either considering there's a billion genres.

In alphabetical order:

- Batman Arkham Asylum
- Beyond Good and Evil
- Castlevania Symphony of the Night
- Chrono Trigger
- Dragon Quest VIII
- Final Fantasy IV
- Final Fantasy VI
- Final Fantasy IX
- Flashback: The Quest for Identity
- Flower
- Killer Instinct (arcade)
- Lost Odyssey
- Maniac Mansion
- Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle
- Metal Gear Solid
- Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater
- Metroid Prime
- Secret of Mana
- Skies of Arcadia
- Sonic the Hedgehog 2
- Suikoden
- Super Mario Bros. 3
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Super Metroid
- The Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past
- Uncharted Drake's Fortune
- Uncharted 2 Among Thieves
- Valkyria Chronicles

Why it should only the Masterpiece games only? All the games that I like is better ;)

Chrono Trigger
Mega Man 2

Top:
I think by masterpiece, he actually does just mean the games that you like the most. He recognises in his initial post that there isn't really any such thing as a perfect game, just the ones that feel perfect to us.

So just list the ones that you like above and beyond the call of duty, basically. Least that's what I did...

The following are my personal "Perfect/Masterpiece" games:

In no order:

Wizards & Warriors
Wizards & Warriors II: Ironsword
Wizards & Warriors III: The Faces of Kuros
Star Wars
Asterix
Alisia Dragoon
Desert Strike
Jungle Strike
Urban Strike
Kid Chameleon
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Breath of Fire II
Cybernator
Super Mario World
Sonic CD
Goldeneye 007 (Nintendo 64 Version)
Star Wars Rogue Squardon
Starfox Lylat Wars
Mystaria: Realms of Lore
Skies of Arcadia
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Wacky Races
Crazy Taxi 2
Final Fantasy VIII
Blazing Dragons (Anything with castmembers of Monty Python doing voices is a Epic Win for me)
Nuclear Strike
Fear Effect 2 Retro Helix
Vandal Hearts
Suikoden
Suikoden II
Metal Gear Solid
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Star Wars Jedi Academy
Jade Empire
Halo 2
Dynasty Warriors 2
Dynasty Warriors 3
Dynasty Warriors 3 Xtreme Legends
Dynasty Warriors 4
Dynasty Warriors 4 Xtreme Legends
Dynasty Warriors 4 Empires
Dynasty Warriors 5
Dynasty Warriors 5 Xtreme Legends
Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires
Samurai Warriors 2
Samurai Warriors 2 Xtreme Legends
Samurai Warriors 2 Empires
Shadow Hearts
Shadow Hearts Covenant
Suikoden V
Kessen III
Romance of the Three Kingdoms VIII
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto Vice City
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Saints Row
Saints Row 2
Assassin's Creed 2
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood
Red Dead Redemption
Star Wars TIE Fighter
Renegade: Battle for Jacob's Star
Champions of Krynn
Death Knights of Krynn
Dark Queen of Krynn
Quest for Glory: So you want to be a hero?
Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire
Quest for Glory III: Wages of War
Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness
Dune

Black.
ESIV.
FFVII, VIII, X.
GTA:VC, SA.
Half-Life 1
LBP.
M&MVI.
MGS1, 2, 3, 4.
Pokemon Blue, Red, Yellow.
StarCraft.
Super Mario Bros.
Unreal Tournament.

Will probably add more later. And I haven't played nearly as many games as most people on this board.

I don't think there are any actually perfect games, but in thinking this over I came up with four where I can't articulate any meaningful, objectively verifiable problem with them, those being Star Fox 64, Chrono Trigger, Smash Bros. Melee, and SSF2 Turbo. I don't count personal dislikes, like "slippy was annoying" or "ryu is so cheap >:O". Can anyone think of anything that was seriously bad about any of these games?

I will list some games I've played that I think are close. I will also post why they aren't actually perfect!

Fallout 2 - buggy, wasn't fully completed.
Planescape: Torment - Combat is weak.
Ocarina of Time - Some bad dungeons.
SF3 3rd Strike - Too many characters are excessively weak.

I think a lot of you guys have way too low standards. Perfect is perfect.

But one person's view of 'perfect' is going to be different from someone else's TK. There's no such thing as a universally accepted, 100% perfect game... Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

Yup, that's true. But perfect does mean that something could not be improved, and I have a hard time believing most of these lists are all games that the posters can't find anything wrong with.

This is why I think the thread would have worked better if we picked our favourite games in certain genres :)

Might as well:

Silent Hill 2
Demon's Souls
Starcraft + Brood War
Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos + Frozen Throne
Diablo 1+2
Half Life 1+2
Killer7
Alpha Protocol
Blazblue Calamity Trigger
Tekken 3
Deus Ex
Portal
Empire Earth
Unreal Tournament
Jak and Daxter series
Ratchet and Clank series
Sly Cooper series
LittleBigPlanet
Final Fantasy series
Assassin's Creed series


and the list could go on. Are they absolutely objectively perfect? Maybe not. Could they all be improved in some way? Probably. For what it's worth, though, I wouldn't change a single damn detail about any of them, because I certainly don't think they need it. It's their faults that make them perfect in our eyes.

You could argue that some games like the Call of Duty games or Uncharted 2 literally don't have anything wrong with them, but is there anything that makes us care deeply about them and remember them even a year later? I'd say no.

*deleted*

1. Silent Hill 3
2. Resident Evil 2/Biohazard 2
3. Tekken 3
4. Resident Evil 4
5. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
6. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
7. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
8. Mass Effect
9. Tomb Raider
10. Baldur's Gate II: Shadow of Amn

Absolutely feel free to do it that way :)

And TK, I don't mean flawless, as in there's nothing whatsoever wrong with the games; I should never have used the word perfect. Masterpiece, as I tried to imply, simply means games that you consider . . . say, complete? Or, rather, by your definition superior to other games despite flaws.

Sometimes flaws are good for a game; it can build character–sort of like with people (even though I've been trying not to use that comparison). The best possible example I can think of is Ocarina of Time; loads of people hate the Water Temple, and some don't like the N64 graphics, but those same people can (for the most part) acknowledge the game as a masterpiece because they appreciate (even if not love) the sum of its parts.

There could be glaring errors in a game but you can still think of it as a masterpiece if it holds a lot of great memories for you, or you have some other personal sentimental value attached to it.

I hope I'm not being confusing now . . . but that's the kind of game I mean; one (or however many) that you guys love and consider a masterpiece, even though it clearly isn't 'perfect' in the most literal sense. I'm sorry if I'm being confusing, but I just wanted to clarify :p Smarty basically said it better than I did :)



This is right on the money :)

You're doing just fine. TK is just being TK. :)

I don't think there are any actually perfect games, but in thinking this over I came up with four where I can't articulate any meaningful, objectively verifiable problem with them, those being Star Fox 64, Chrono Trigger, Smash Bros. Melee, and SSF2 Turbo. I don't count personal dislikes, like "slippy was annoying" or "ryu is so cheap >:O". Can anyone think of anything that was seriously bad about any of these games?

I will list some games I've played that I think are close. I will also post why they aren't actually perfect!

Fallout 2 - buggy, wasn't fully completed.
Planescape: Torment - Combat is weak.
Ocarina of Time - Some bad dungeons.
SF3 3rd Strike - Too many characters are excessively weak.

I think a lot of you guys have way too low standards. Perfect is perfect.
This is why the thread should have been "Your favorite video games". And I think there's a thread like that already, no?
Also, bad dungeons in Ocarina of Time? Do elaborate, sil vous plait.




Absolutely feel free to do it that way :)

And TK, I don't mean flawless, as in there's nothing whatsoever wrong with the games; I should never have used the word perfect. Masterpiece, as I tried to imply, simply means games that you consider . . . say, complete? Or, rather, by your definition superior to other games despite flaws.

Sometimes flaws are good for a game; it can build character–sort of like with people (even though I've been trying not to use that comparison). The best possible example I can think of is Ocarina of Time; loads of people hate the Water Temple, and some don't like the N64 graphics, but those same people can (for the most part) acknowledge the game as a masterpiece because they appreciate (even if not love) the sum of its parts.

There could be glaring errors in a game but you can still think of it as a masterpiece if it holds a lot of great memories for you, or you have some other personal sentimental value attached to it.

I hope I'm not being confusing now . . . but that's the kind of game I mean; one (or however many) that you guys love and consider a masterpiece, even though it clearly isn't 'perfect' in the most literal sense. I'm sorry if I'm being confusing, but I just wanted to clarify :p Smarty basically said it better than I did :)

That still makes this thread a "List your favorite video games" thread.

Edit: There's a handful of these types of threads in the forum, why not reuse one?
Thread 54891
Thread 17918
Thread 88850
Thread 48993

Or video game favorites (or "masterpieces" as you wish to put it) and why they are your favorites would make for a much more interesting thread.

Or even what video games are objectively the best on each platform. That would probably be an entertaining challenge, coming up with a thorough methodology by which to rate the games and what not.

Not necessarily - I omitted plenty of games that I consider to be favourites of mine, on the grounds of them being too flawed, no matter how much I personally love them.

I reasoned that if a game was truly sensational in a way that meant it really spoke to me, then it should be included, regardless of flaws (Deadly Premonition for example), but if a game was just generally good and I liked it, but has obvious flaws,then I left it out (Mirror's Edge is an example of a game I love, but know is far from perfect and not good enough in any individual regard to say 'You must play it for *this*).

I think there's a difference between "favorite" and "masterpiece" -- Drakengard has got to me one of my favorite games (in a loose sense, don't ask) but it's a fucking travesty of a game.

*deleted*

IMO

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid: Subsistence
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns Of The Patriots
Resident Evil 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Battlefield 2
Battlefield 2142
Mass Effect 2
Knights Of The Old Republic
Grand Theft Auto IV
Red Dead Redemption
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
First Encounter Assualt Recon
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Half-Life 2
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Star Wars: Republic Commando
Crysis
Crysis 2
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Mortal Kombat
Super Smash Brothers
Mario Kart
Super Mario Brothers
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
Saints Row II
Mortal Kombat II
Ultimate Mortal Kombat III

*deleted*

IMO

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid: Subsistence
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns Of The Patriots
Resident Evil 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Battlefield 2
Battlefield 2142
Mass Effect 2
Knights Of The Old Republic
Grand Theft Auto IV
Red Dead Redemption
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
First Encounter Assualt Recon
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Half-Life 2
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Star Wars: Republic Commando
Crysis
Crysis 2
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Mortal Kombat
Super Smash Brothers
Mario Kart
Super Mario Brothers
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
Saints Row II
Mortal Kombat II
Ultimate Mortal Kombat III

Some damn fine choices you got there.

I would have Put KOTOR 2 but obsidians tech problems (from what I hear was LucasArts Fault, Curse them to the 5th shadow dimension) just left a bad taste in my mouth. Same thing for Fallout New Vegas but i dont know where the blame lies on that one. And oh holy hell I forgot Diablo 2 and the expansion Lord Of Destruction. I must go cut off a piece of me in pennace now.:-(

I suppose that's not entirely fair to Lucasarts. The tech problems of KOTOR 2 aren't Lucasarts fault as such, its more that they forced Obsidian to release the game when it blatantly wasn't finished, rushing it out for a Christmas release etc.

Obsidian are a grand company, but they do have issues with the technical nuts and bolts of making games. So I think that whilst if they had been given the time they needed, the game would have been complete at least, and would have worked better than it does. But it almost certainly would still have been riddled with bugs, because such games are complicated and need extensive testing and above all money, to iron out such bugs - money that Obsidian simply doesn't have.

Yeah I wasnt meaning it was all lucasarts fault cause KOTOR 2, FO:NV, and Alpha Protocol all have noteriety for having a lot of gamebreaking bugs. I would have to say Fallout NV as being the worst on this front crashing every other hour is not good, frame rate problems are abundant , and glich amounts are higher than Fallout 3 (which had a considerable amount of those).

EarthBound
Mother 3
Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie
Curse of Monkey Island

Yeah I wasnt meaning it was all lucasarts fault cause KOTOR 2, FO:NV, and Alpha Protocol all have noteriety for having a lot of gamebreaking bugs. I would have to say Fallout NV as being the worst on this front crashing every other hour is not good, frame rate problems are abundant , and glich amounts are higher than Fallout 3 (which had a considerable amount of those).

I think people need to learn to accept that incredibly huge RPGs like NV are going to be buggy. It's unrealistic to expect that a game that ambitious could escape without them. That said I think it's one of those things where people just enjoy having something to bitch about. I've played through NV several times and never had a serious problem with bugs. Same with F3. An occasional freeze here and there, and sometimes radscorpions get stuck in the ground, which I enjoy as it's funny to cap the suckers off that way. The game autosaves every time you twitch a finger anyway.

I also think it's notable that the severity of the existing bugs is far less than was common in old CRPGs. Fallout 2 has perks that don't do anything, "discounts" that accidentally make prices higher, conversation rewards that accidentally become more successful if your stats are lower. This is stuff that really did happen because the game was simply rushed. It would have been very simple to check if all those scripts executed properly. Freezes in NV are quite a lot more excusable considering the sheer weight of content to check in that game and the difficulty in reproducing most of the bugs that do exist.

.......I think it's one of those things where people just enjoy having something to bitch about.

But don't you do this all the time?

I think people need to learn to accept that incredibly huge RPGs like NV are going to be buggy. It's unrealistic to expect that a game that ambitious could escape without them. That said I think it's one of those things where people just enjoy having something to bitch about. I've played through NV several times and never had a serious problem with bugs. Same with F3. An occasional freeze here and there, and sometimes radscorpions get stuck in the ground, which I enjoy as it's funny to cap the suckers off that way. The game autosaves every time you twitch a finger anyway.

I also think it's notable that the severity of the existing bugs is far less than was common in old CRPGs. Fallout 2 has perks that don't do anything, "discounts" that accidentally make prices higher, conversation rewards that accidentally become more successful if your stats are lower. This is stuff that really did happen because the game was simply rushed. It would have been very simple to check if all those scripts executed properly. Freezes in NV are quite a lot more excusable considering the sheer weight of content to check in that game and the difficulty in reproducing most of the bugs that do exist.

Ok I said that NV had GAMEBREAKING CRASHES, AND IS A PROVEN CONSOLE KILLER. Small bugs are no problem like killed enemies bodies flying into the air and the like but It crashed and corrupted its own data so much I was scared to freaking play it. I bought it on day one and it consistently crashed evey other hour of play. If I went anywhere populated, crash. If I killed an enemy in a small room, crash. I am not bitching about it, It is merely the facts of the matter. And what gets me is all these problems are on all consoles. At least the old games didnt commit suicide on me at any given time.

Well, those are some very extreme examples. I love Fallout: New Vegas, and I've played it fairly solidly on my PS3 for the last 4-5 months. Yes, it does have glitches, but I think the game is easily good enough to forgive them. And as TK says, its unrealistic to expect no problems in games this big, open and complicated.

The glitches are mostly harmless IMO, and most of them can be solved by just leaving a game area and coming right back, giving the game another chance to get it right (which it usually does). I would argue that only the crashes are a cause for serious concern. Now, the game does have a tendency to crash, but:

a) I have never experienced anything like the problems you note (crashes on my copy, most frequently occured when passing from one area to another, and once reloaded, would not crash again for hours.

b) It is rarely ever more than a nuisance, as the game autosaves every time you enter a new area, and that happens all the time really. Roaming the world map doesn't have this protection, but like as I say, the game doesn't crash for me in these areas (and I save frequently anyway).

and finally

c) After downloading the Dead Money DLC, the game added an update and the game hasn't crashed since. I played through all of Dead Money, Honest Hearts and Old World Blues, as well as a couple of hours collecting my last trophies to get 100% completion (which I finally did), and like I say, no more crashes. I don't expect for one moment that the problem is completely solved, but the patch certainly seems to have helped.


But let's not kid ourselves - the game *is* buggy and glitchy, over and beyond what we should expect. Bethesda's Oblivion and Fallout 3 do also have bugs and gltiches, but they are nowhere near as severe or numerous or FO:NV. I still consider New Vegas to be head and shoulders the best game out of those 3, but you do have make some big allowances for the technical problems.

But don't you do this all the time?

No.

Nice :) Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is a fine game indeed.
The "waifu generator"?




No.
You sure? =p

JET SET RADIOOOOOOO

It had a pretty good soundtrack.

I still have my Xbox and Jet Set Radio Future.
How does the first one compare to Future?

IMO

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid: Subsistence
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns Of The Patriots
Resident Evil 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Battlefield 2
Battlefield 2142
Mass Effect 2
Knights Of The Old Republic
Grand Theft Auto IV
Red Dead Redemption
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
First Encounter Assualt Recon
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Half-Life 2
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Star Wars: Republic Commando
Crysis
Crysis 2
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Mortal Kombat
Super Smash Brothers
Mario Kart
Super Mario Brothers
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
Saints Row II
Mortal Kombat II
Ultimate Mortal Kombat III

Additions

Super Mario Brothers
Killzone 2
Killzone 3
Resident Evil
Resident Evil 4
Medal of Honor: Frontline
Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault
Mortal Kombat (2011)
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Medieval: Total War II
Rome: Total War
Command & Conquer
Command & Conquer Red Alert
Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun and Firestorm Expansion
Command & Conquer Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge Expansion
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2
Half Life 2 and Episode 2
Portal
Burnout: Paradise
Infamous
Infamous 2
Jak and Daxter
Jak II
Jak III
Hitman 2: Silent Assassin
Hitman: Blood Money