Don't you got anything better to do?!

Don't you got anything better to do?!

udontknowenglishgrammar


^ That should be your screen name.

Haha
It's about damn time this thread got back on the topic of insulting people who jump in without knowing what the thread is even about.

I think we've pretty much discussed everything though. We still haven't come to a conclusion yet though. I think this is gonna go on forever, but people are welcome to debate to their heart's content.

But the real fun now comes when people who have no idea what the thread is about come in and reveal their stupidity. People have 30 pages of debate they can read if that's what they're after.

Y'know Prak, that's always fun.

We can just tell them to go see page _____

That takes all the fun out of it though.

i honestly like ff7 because of the great storyline.... when it was finished it was like i couldent get enough, and i like how they just kind of dropped off the story. its how i learned about advent children.

See chorns? We get to start again right now.

This is the best game ever because:
1) The main character isn't even a real person
2) The main enemy isn't even Alive
3) The Most Favorite character dies before the end of the first disc.

These three points make the main plot of this game the best game ever made.

I really cant believe this thread is still open....nice pic btw Prak

This is the best game ever because:
1) The main character isn't even a real person
2) The main enemy isn't even Alive
3) The Most Favorite character dies before the end of the first disc.

These three points make the main plot of this game the best game ever made.
More fresh meat.

Ok, so you have expressed your opinion that these three points make it the best game ever. I really can't counter this yet, because you have yet to explain why.

This is the best game ever because:
1) The main character isn't even a real person
2) The main enemy isn't even Alive
3) The Most Favorite character dies before the end of the first disc.

These three points make the main plot of this game the best game ever made.

Ummmm.... The main character IS a real person, the main enemy IS alive, and Aeris's death IS the end of the first disc. Also, none of those would really make it the best game ever even if they were true. Now, in FFX, the main character isn't a real person, but I thought he was irritating anyway. I don't know where you got the idea that Sephiroth wasn't alive, seeing as how he summoned meteor when Cloud gave his body the black materia. Really now, at least try to elaborate a little bit more.

Ummmm.... The main character IS a real person, the main enemy IS alive, and Aeris's death IS the end of the first disc. Also, none of those would really make it the best game ever even if they were true. Now, in FFX, the main character isn't a real person, but I thought he was irritating anyway. I don't know where you got the idea that Sephiroth wasn't alive, seeing as how he summoned meteor when Cloud gave his body the black materia. Really now, at least try to elaborate a little bit more.
hes right. the main character is a real person only he was experimented on, but sephiroth isnt rly alive. hes kind of an undead dude.

omg plz close this thread! the points that are being said have been said a long time ago, if you want to see what people think, go back and read the first 30 pages!

omg plz close this thread! the points that are being said have been said a long time ago, if you want to see what people think, go back and read the first 30 pages!

But it's so funny!

THESA BOARDS R SOO COL11!!1! OMG WTF ANYWAY I REGISTERED JUST 2 REPLY 2 THIS 2PIC!!!11 IVE READ MOST OF TEH REPLEIS 2 THIS BOARD AND SARIOUSLY ANYONA WHO THINKS FF7 IS BAD IS STUPID!!!!!!1 LOL ITS DA ONLY GOD F GME.11!!!1!!!1!1 OMG FFX WAS K CAUSA IT HAD GOD GRAPHICS BUT FF8 AND 9 MAEKS U THINK 2 MUCH AND ITS 2 MUCH TOKNG1!1!11 AND TEH OLD ONES SUK B/C THAY HAEV SHITY GRAPHICS1!!!11!! WTF LOL AL U WHO SAYS THIS GME IS STUPID WELL GUES WUT?!?!??! OMG WTF UR STUPID FOR NOT LIKNG DA BST GAME EVER MAED!1!1!! LOL

ff7 is not necessarily a good game its all a matter of opinion.

NO ONE IS RAPLYNG 2 ME I SEE11!!!1 IS IT B/C MAH ARGUMENT IS 2 SOLID?!!??!?? OMG WTF LOL IT SHUD B!!!! OMG LOL B/C I KNOW TAHT IM RIGHT SARIOUSLY ANYONE TAHT HAETS FINALFANTASY7 IS A COMPLETE FAGOT AND SHUD B SHOT!111 WTF UR AL JUST JEALOUS CAUSE I KNOW ITS TEH BST GMA EVER MAED AND U CANT COMPETA NOBODY CAN BAT MA IN AN ARGUMENT BCAES IM TEH BST 4EVAR FINALFANTASY7 ROKS AND U KNOW IT MORONS


ff7 is not necessarily a good game its all a matter of opinion.

WTF MATAR OF OPINION?!!!?!??! U R A FAGOT DUDE SARIOUSLY!11!!!!! WTF U KNOW ITS TEH BST GAME BUT O WATE U LIEK KUJA LOL TAHT GUY IS A FUKIN QUER NO WONDER U HIED BHIND TAHT STUPID OPINION ARGUMENT UR JUST A BITCH!11!!!1!1!!

WTF U GUYS ARE FAGZ

your jsut angry cause ur new and you know it to be true.

DUDE WTFEVER LIKE A FAG LIKE U KNOWZ ANYTHING!!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!!!

CloudStrife go read page 18 - 25 you crack doodle. And learn how to spell.

CloudStrife go read page 18 - 25 you crack doodle. And learn how to spell.

How funny I was thinking the exact same thing.

OMG SERIOUSLY WTF IS AL I HAEV 2 SAY 2 U FAGOTS!11!! OMG LOL HOW HARD IS IT FOR U 2 UNDERSTAND TAHT FINAL FANTASY 7 IS TEH BST AND ONLY GOD FINAL FANTASY GME EVER MAED?!!!?!?!? WTF LOL SERIOUSLY R U AL SO DUMB FROM BUT FUKNG AACH OTHER TAHT U ONLY LIEK DA SHITY GMES LIEK FINALFANTASYX AND FINALFANTASY6
FINALFANTASY7 IS TEH BST CAUSE OF DA COL CHARACTERS DA MATERIAE SYSTEM IS AASY 2 UNDERSTAND CLOUD IS JUST AEWSOMA AND NOT 2 MANTION ITS ANIEM!11!1111!1!!11!1 WTF I MEAN COM3 ON ANIEM IS AEWSOME LIEK INUYASHA AND TRIGUN NOT LIEK COWBOY BBOP THOUGH1!!! LOL TAHT SHOW IS BORNG LIEK FINALFANTASY81!1!!1
ANYWAY FINALFANTASY7 IS TEH BST GME WHOAVAR DOESNT THINK IT IS IS A FAGOT STUPID AND SHUD B SHOT ON SIGHT1!!1!11

Hey I love the game but it isn't gods greatest creation. Just settle down here. It's one of my all time favorite games. And i don't like anime at all.

U DONT LIEK ANIME?!?!?!!! LOL K TAHTS IT TEL ME WERA U LIEV SO I CAN COME KIK UR AS SERIOUSLY IMM TIERD OF FAGOTS LIEK U1!!1 OMG

ok, well i did like this game...i seriously did...but its people like this guy that is seriously making it hard for me to enjoy it anymore. I see what most of you mean by FF7 Fanboys....but i wish that this term wasnt slung at everyone that likes FF7...jus dumbshits like cloud here that need to be shot in the throat so they are incapable lowering everyones intelligence around him by opening their mouth...and mabye in the wrists to prevent them from getting on the computer and typing their un-thought out ideas on the internet....*shakes head*

Oh yeah, Inyuasha and all other anime is actually kind of gay. It is shitty animation with an out there story line that doesnt make sense...

do you realise you spelt strife wrong? cloudsrfe666.

oh no the scary anime man is coming to your house. tremble with fear...
gasp and he managed to mangle the english language in caps

�shenanigans�

I actually can't get enough of this new Cloud person, whoever it really is. :)

Yeah, this is extremely entertaining!

LOL IM THE FF7 AVANGER!!!!1!!!!!1!!!!11!!!

FF7 = TEH BEST
ALL OTHER FF = THE WORST
It's flaming time.

Yeah, I do deserved to be flamed, acting like an FF7 fan boy. Only two people really seem to caught on and that would be Prak and Rabid Monkey. But what was the sad part about all this? the fact that I was acting? or the fact that I was acting like people that actually exsist?

http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html <--- how to sound like an FF7 fan.


Anyway, had fun, good game, it was on like donkey kong. now it's Game Over, and I'm out of tokens.

FLAMING TIME?!

Altho he has a point, in my opion..
FFVII was the best of all other FF's,
but i wouldn't say that the rest are all crap, there all indivuail with gd stories and charcters...

I've cleared FFVII over 20 times and each of the others at least 3 times..
I'm thinking of playing FFVII again actually..

Anyway i believe FFVII was the best as it was my first taste of the FF world's.
I even got my name from it...
Cloud was the Saviour of the game,
Sephiroth was the on winged Angel...

CloudStrff that was the funniest shit in the world. LMAO

CloudStrff that was the funniest shit in the world. LMAO

I'm glad that you found my excrement amusing.

Altho he has a point, in my opion..
FFVII was the best of all other FF's,
but i wouldn't say that the rest are all crap, there all indivuail with gd stories and charcters...

I've cleared FFVII over 20 times and each of the others at least 3 times..
I'm thinking of playing FFVII again actually..

Anyway i believe FFVII was the best as it was my first taste of the FF world's.
I even got my name from it...
Cloud was the Saviour of the game,
Sephiroth was the on winged Angel...

that is a hell of a lot of gamepaly time seriously.

that is a hell of a lot of gamepaly time seriously.

hehe tnx man...

it's amazing the amount things you can do when you never sleep...

Anyway i believe FFVII was the best as it was my first taste of the FF world's.

You think FFVII was the best because it was your first FF game? That's all the reason you can give? Go home, little boy. I'll forgive you this one stupidity, but keep up like this and you'll get the same treatment as all the other pathetic fanboys who give flimsy, infantile answers.

ooooooh acting obnoxious.
now why didnt i think of that...

CloudStrff that was the funniest shit in the world. LMAO
lol...yeah...as long as it was acting...its all good and fun...i likey the new translator though...its very interesting :D

You think FFVII was the best because it was your first FF game? That's all the reason you can give? Go home, little boy. I'll forgive you this one stupidity, but keep up like this and you'll get the same treatment as all the other pathetic fanboys who give flimsy, infantile answers.

No need to get nasty man,
I just couldn't be bothered right now detailing the story about Cloud and Sephiroth, esp how Cloud kills the orignal Sephiroth...
I'm just to lazy and might do it later...
But really I like FFVII coz of it's kick ass baddie..

final fantasy 7 is the best fnal fantasy because of many good reasons which i forgot but it is certainantly not the worlds best game. I only wish i could play star ocean in english.

Star Ocean is boring. ANd long and tedious. FIrst 30 hours of NOTHING TO DO.

Anyway. Guys I am going to tell you a secret that NO ONE KNOWS...

(shhh looks around...)


FF7 Was NEVER completed.

????????????

FF7 Was NEVER completed.
It's true.

ive never thought/heard about that...any info?

ive never thought/heard about that...any info?
Well I posted this in my huge post, which I will <A HREF="http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=276908&postcount=197">gladly</A> post again.

I say every FFVII fan read that, including the unfinished link, and then get back to me.

I'll return your call in no time!

Now that's just plain outrageous. Just think of how good a game FFVII COULD have been...

God this thread has just become Prak and a bunch of other people screaming at people new to the thread "You're STUPID!!" FF7 is one of the few games that can actually claim greatness adn be considered to be one of the greatest games of all time, you guys don't have to except that but it is great in the eyes of many so lets just leave it at that.

No. However, I'm quite flattered that you consider me to be the primary opposition, although there are others who have been just as harsh as I. :)

FF7 is one of the few games that can actually claim greatness
oh my, here I go again.

A game cannot claim greatness; it has to earn it by itself by actually being a great game. The only way I would ever admit that it 'claimed' greatness is the fact that so many people first got their taste of Final Fantasy through this very game, meaning the game's apparent greatness wasn't claimed at all. It was just given out on a silver platter.


adn be considered to be one of the greatest games of all time
Dude, you could technically say that any game ever made could be considered the greatest game ever made. It would make a lot of sense if you said that it is arguably the greatest game ever made, but only if you were capable of bringing facts to the table, which has yet to occur.

For example, I consider Nintendo World Cup Soccer to be the greatest game ever made, and very few people would agree with me.

No. However, I'm quite flattered that you consider me to be the primary opposition, although there are others who have been just as harsh as I. :)

Prak i said u and a bunch of other people meaning not only you.

Secondly there are many people who consider FF7 to be the greatest game of all time and it wasnt their first FF game. for example me I think FF7 is a great game and is one of the greatest games of all time and my first FF was FF8 and before I played FF7 I played 1-6 and there are many other people I know like that so dont push that fact becuase its not as true as you think.

Finally, the game is considered great by the majority of the poeple who played it, so yes your are right when u say any game is great in the eyes of one person but that doesnt make it a great game, but in this case the majority of its players consider it to be one of the greatest games ever madeso therefore it can be considered great in the eyes of the majority.

Technically a game can't claim to be anything. =/

Very good point; video games are inanimate. Besides that, however, our discussion has NOTHING to do with popular opinion. I don't care if the whole damn world says that it's the best game ever made, that doesn't mean it's a good game. For example, almost everyone says that Halo II is one of the greatest games of all time, but it's really not innovative at all because it's just the same as all other first person shooters, and people only like it because it has good graphics and cool weapons. As you may have guessed, I have very little respect for public opinion.

But FF7 was new and had different and amazing things added to the game that had never been added before that made the game fun and great.

But FF7 was new and had different and amazing things added to the game that had never been added before that made the game fun and great.

Like?

Well for one there were limit breaks that you could get in any battle at anytime in previous FFs you could only get them at certain times, Raising & Racing Chocobos in previous FFs you could only find them and ride them, The materia system before it was a variation of the job system which was getting old, The obvious one is that its 3-D.

Well for one there were limit breaks that you could get in any battle at anytime in previous FFs you could only get them at certain times,

Shame about the piss-poor execution.


Raising & Racing Chocobos in previous FFs you could only find them and ride them,

That's hardly something that makes FFVII really special, especially since it was so frustrating. Besides, many games have things that are exclusive to them. Does that make every single one of them a great game?


The materia system before it was a variation of the job system which was getting old,

That's purely a matter of opinion. Many of us have stated that we prefer for characters to have a very clear role in combat.


The obvious one is that its 3-D.

As previously stated, that is a result of new hardware capabilities. Other games were already doing the 3D thing, so there's really nothing there to brag about.

As previously stated, that is a result of new hardware capabilities. Other games were already doing the 3D thing, so there's really nothing there to brag about.

Not only that, but graphics really don't have anything to do with how good a game is. The only means for comparison of graphics is to compare it to games released around the same time, in which case FFVII does not rise above the rest.

Also about hardware capabilities, I wish Square had done more with the music. The brass in the midi they used really sucked, and Uematsu did a really good job with FFVII. Actually, FFVI had better midi quality than FFVII. If FFVII had used better sound for its music, it would have been incredible. The music was still very good, but the sound quality was definitely sub-par. So you see, FFVII can only be rated for its graphics and other use of hardware if you compare it to what the system was fully capable of, and FFVII did not live up to its full potential in terms of video and sound quality.

I thought the music was pretty good. and also FF7 was one of the first PS games and always the earlier games on a system don't use the full potential of the system becuase there is still some experimentation going on and they dont know what it can fully do yet.

What I was saying was that FFVII wasn't really any better than the other games that came out at the same time in terms of graphics, so you can't really say that it had exceptional graphics. And what I was saying about the music was that they could have used better sound quality and made the music better, because it was really good music with crappy midi.

The materia system before it was a variation of the job system which was getting old

I was hoping you'd mention that. The job system was only used in two Final Fantasy games, both of which were not released outside of Japan before Final Fantasy VII was released. So, even if you imported the Final Fantasies in order, you still had not seen the Job system since Final Fantasy V. You can hardly consider that as "getting old".

Also, there is very little difference between the Materia system and the Esper system. In fact, the only differences at all, is that once a spell is mastered in FFVI the character retains that spell forever, and that you did not get special attack modes from Materia. However, that's what relics were for. So, basically, the Materia system was exactly the same as the Esper/relic system from FFVI. Not innovative, just a bastardized version of a previous system.

I forgot 6 and 4 weren't job systems mainly becuase I havent played them for awhile and never beat them but still the materia system was new and unique system allowing you to customize characters to whatever role in battle you wanted, so the characters do have a clear and specific role in battle this time though you can choose the role they have but not entirely becuase some of the characters stats are set so that they are more aimed towards using magic or their limit breaks instead of physical damage(Ex: Aeris,Vincent) while others were geared more towards physical damage (Ex: Cloud, Cid) while others were more geared towards both (Ex: Tifa, RedXIII) so the characters are still unique and have defined roles in battle you can just customize it to your personal battle style.

With Graphics, FF7's were a major improvment from previous Final Fantasies and were still amazing for their time maybe not the best but were still amazing. But I've said this multiple times Graphics don't make a game great. Instead it's gameplay, storyline, how fun the game is, and the emotional feeling the player expeirences from playing the game that make it great, FF7 has all of these and is incredible with all of them.

Never mind the fact that every one of those things you named is still under debate. As a matter of fact, we've slaughtered every one of those aspects other than fun factor, which differs too greatly between individuals to be of any use in a debate.

Also, your little monologue on character roles was complete bullshit. Any idiot realizes that the differences aren't great enough to definitively restrict any character's role.

The Storyline for FF7 was great, most people who say it sucks either don't understand it or are too lazy to think outside of the box in certain parts of it and want it all handed to them on a silver platter, or missed certain parts that explain things or just don't remember them(these things would include the info i have given in the past to explain the ending and the whole thing of how it wasn't the real Sephiroth that killed Aeris it was Jenova, all the information needed to understand this and figure it out is clearly stated within the game you just have to remember it).

Well the character Roles are defined you can just customize the roles to your personal battle style but you still have some restrictions with different characters, for example Aeris is the best character to have use magic if you equip here with magics the spells do more damage most of the time depending on her level while she does pitiful physical damage becuase her role is not to use physical attacks(this information come directly from the guidebook).

The Storyline for FF7 was great, most people who say it sucks either don't understand it or are too lazy to think outside of the box in certain parts of it and want it all handed to them on a silver platter, or missed certain parts that explain things or just don't remember them(these things would include the info i have given in the past to explain the ending and the whole thing of how it wasn't the real Sephiroth that killed Aeris it was Jenova, all the information needed to understand this and figure it out is clearly stated within the game you just have to remember it).

Holy shit! You guys never stop! Saying it repeatedly will NEVER make it true. We've asskicked that very same argument many times before.


Well the character Roles are defined you can just customize the roles to your personal battle style but you still have some restrictions with different characters, for example Aeris is the best character to have use magic if you equip here with magics the spells do more damage most of the time depending on her level while she does pitiful physical damage becuase her role is not to use physical attacks(this information come directly from the guidebook).

Aeris is the single exception, and that was probably because she was cannon fodder anyway. All other characters were capable of pretty similar physical attacks and magic.

I forgot 6 and 4 weren't job systems mainly becuase I havent played them for awhile and never beat them but still the materia system was new and unique system allowing you to customize characters to whatever role in battle you wanted...

That's a load of BS, pal. First of all, "I forgot about 6 and 4" doesn't cover all of the Final Fantasies that you've forgotten. FF1, FF3 (I believe 2 was the first job system, though I COULD be wrong), and FFMQ. As for the Materia system, I think the post I just made not more than a few hours ago shows that there isn't anything unique about it. It is exactly like the Esper/relic system of FFVI, so no more talk about it being innovative or unique, please.


so the characters do have a clear and specific role in battle this time though you can choose the role they have but not entirely becuase some of the characters stats are set so that they are more aimed towards using magic or their limit breaks instead of physical damage(Ex: Aeris,Vincent) while others were geared more towards physical damage (Ex: Cloud, Cid) while others were more geared towards both (Ex: Tifa, RedXIII) so the characters are still unique and have defined roles in battle you can just customize it to your personal battle style.

Name one character that isn�t capable of doing 9999 damage with a normal attack or with magic. Go ahead, I'll wait.

i bet aeris cant do 9999 damage with her normal attack..cuz by the time your able to get unlimited power sources....she dies...so there....you dont have to wait anymore

Fine here are all the roles of the characters as the guidebook states them:

Cloud:
Over time cloud proves to be a great asset, becuase his powerful sword attacks and limit breaks are nearly unmatched. You'll want to keep Cloud in your front line most of the time to take full advantage of his damaging strong physical attacks and limit breaks. His magic skills are decent and solid but not nearly as good as Aeris' so don't overload him with materia.

Barret:
Although he may not look it, Barret is one of the most versatile characters in the game. Unlike most he has weapons for close and long range combat, which enables him to perform well in either rank. You'll want to keep Barret in the back rank most of the time. This enables him cause heavy damage without taking an equal amount in return. Avoid loading Barret up with Materia that reduces his hit points and strength. You may want to use Barret as a damage magnet later, and if so he'll need to be as strong as possible.

Tifa:
When Fighting Tifa lets her fists do the talking. Her attacks are generally weaker than Cloud's and Barret's but from early on her chain Limit Breaks are by far the best thing going. Tifa should always be a frontline fighter, but may have trouble contributing during some boss fights. Like Cloud, Tifa is exceptional with magic but you should still avoid loading her up with materia.

Aeris:
Aeris is the closest character Final Fantasy VII has to a dedicated magic user. Her physical attacks are fairly weak, but she possesses great skill and power with Materia and its various forms, especially in magic. Due to this odd balance, you should put her in you back line and load her down with Materia. Let Aeris devote her energies to spell casting while her teammates concentrate on inflicting physical damage. This also takes advantage of her defensive-based Limit Breaks.

Red XIII:
Red XIII is strong at both Physical and Magical combat. His sharp teeth and claws work well with his close-range fighting style, however this limits his combat options and forces him to take a spot on the front line. There is a long range weapon for Red XIII but it lacks Materia slots and forces him to act as a fighter. Red XIII makes a solid strong magic user when loaded down with Materia, but performs best with a more balanced approach. It's best to always take advantage of his physical strength as well as his startling intellect and magic abilities.

Cid:
With his lance in hand, Cid is always prepared for battle. His fighting skills are top-notch and come in handy throughout most of the game. His Limit Breaks are very handy when fighting enemies becuase they all cause direct damage rather than affecting status ailments or healing the party. Cid's stats are pretty average all the way around, which can help or hinder his performance depending on how well he is equipped.

Yuffie:
Yuffie isn't one of the strongest team members, but her Limit Breaks are powerful. Her weapons enable her to attack from a distance without penalty. Keep her in the backline and outfit her with plenty of Materia. Although this tactic will lower her HP she will be safe in the backline while still being able to deal plently of physical damage and use plenty of magic.

Cait Sith:
Cait Sith isn't much of a fighter but his Mog relies on close range attacks. His true strength resides in his 2 limit breaks. Although these limit breaks are unpredictable, they can deal some serious damage even at the lowest levels. Cait Sith can also take quite a beating so keep him in the frontline.

Vincent:
Vincent is a strong fighter, much like Barret. He is also quite competent with Materia similar to Aeris but not as much making it a good idea to load him up and put him in the back line. His Limit Breaks are also powerful but unpredictable.

So the roles are

Cloud: Warrior
Barret: Long Range Figher
Tifa: Black Belt
Aeris: Black and White Mage
Red XIII: Mage and Warrior
Cid: Fighter
Yuffie: Ninja, Thief, Mage.
Cait Sith: BodyGuard
Vincent: Long Range Fighter, Strong Mage

Finally Just becuase you keep saying the storyline sucks doesn't make that true either and FF1 was the job system u just couldn't change the jobs once you chose them and FF3 you started as onion kids and then chose JOBS for them and they leveled up into them and you could change JOBS at anytime.

And also Tifa doesn't do 9999 damage at lvl 99.

Quoting the game's manual is probably the flimsiest excuse for an argument I've seen from you yet, with the exception of half of the others. And on top of that, you didn't even address the arguments against you!

Saying the storyline sucks doesn't make it true, but we back up what we say. Look at all the times we've pointed out its hideously glaring flaws, discrepancies, contradictions, etc. over the course of these threads.

And look at how many times you've said somethings awful in the storyline and we came back and explained it to you and showed you its purpose and meaning and how its not all that awful.

And quoting what I did out of the guide book just proves that the characters DO have specific roles and I did address the argument you made of how Aeris was the only one who had a role in the game by showing you all the other roles. the other arguments were posted while I was writing my reply so I went back and responded to them.

i bet aeris cant do 9999 damage with her normal attack..cuz by the time your able to get unlimited power sources....she dies...so there....you dont have to wait anymore

If you take the time to level her up she is. She has just as much potential to do 9999 damage as every other character, and in the end that�s really all we can argue over because the Aeris in my game may be completely different from the Aeris in your game.


FF1 was the job system u just couldn't change the jobs once you chose them and FF3 you started as onion kids and then chose JOBS for them and they leveled up into them and you could change JOBS at anytime.

By admitting that FFIV isn't the job system you also admit that FFI isn't as well. Besides, the "Job System" is characterized by having a list of possible "jobs" to select from, and then having the ability to switch among those jobs, mixing and matching abilities as you do so. Though you see aspects of FFI in the job system, FFI is not and example of the job system.

Also, I said that I thought FFII was the first, turns out it was FFIII, it still doesn't change the fact that only two Final Fantasies had a job system before FFVII.


And also Tifa doesn't do 9999 damage at lvl 99.

She did for me. In fact, all my characters did. Like I said to unseen, the only aspect of this argument we can actually debate is the character�s potential. As shown, your Tifa is different than my Tifa, but when the game started each had the potential to be doing 9999 damage in both physical and magical attacks by the end of the game. The only time a character won't is if you NEVER use them, due to the fact you are able to turn any character into whatever type of fighter you want. The fact that your Tifa was incapable of doing 9999 just goes to show you that you can beat the game with using three characters the whole way through, which isn't a the mark of a good game.


As for quoting the manual, the No Child Left Behind act is supposed to improve the education system in America. That doesn't mean that, merely because it says it on paper, that it had a resounding positive impact. On that same note, just because the guidebook says that characters are suited for something, does not make it undeniably true.

he might not have addressed the arguments against him...but he brought up the point of you saying that every character is EXACTLY the same due to the materia system...and he proved that they are not.

How?

If you take the time to level her up she is. She has just as much potential to do 9999 damage as every other character, and in the end that’s really all we can argue over because the Aeris in my game may be completely different from the Aeris in your game.
Well, actually each character has a set amt of points that limit them from progressing in an area all that much. That is what the purpose of the "sources" are...to break past these limits...a lvl 99 aeris with her ultimate weapon will not do 9999 damage...unless you giver her about 100 power sources...which is impossible to obtain at that point in the game

My Tifa is maxed out in stats and only does 9999 when her limit break bar is near full any other time she does less becuase the damage her strongest and most powerful weapon does depends on her limit break bar.

And if your gonna say that the guide book is wrong with the characters well everyone is gonna disagree with you becuase we all know that barret sux with magic and Aeris rocks with is an so on and so forth.

woot woot no comment from the opposition woot woot

Well, actually each character has a set amt of points that limit them from progressing in an area all that much. That is what the purpose of the "sources" are...to break past these limits...a lvl 99 aeris with her ultimate weapon will not do 9999 damage...unless you giver her about 100 power sources...which is impossible to obtain at that point in the game

But there is still the potential to obtain it, from what you've said. Even if it isn't she's the only flaw, and Prak mentioned that already. That makes you brining it up 1) un-needed because it was already given and 2) a waste of your time because you just admitted that it would be possible if she did not die. The fact that she does die doesn't matter, because you basically said she would be able to under normal circumstances.


My Tifa is maxed out in stats and only does 9999 when her limit break bar is near full any other time she does less becuase the damage her strongest and most powerful weapon does depends on her limit break bar.

I fail to see how that matters when I just said the Tifa in my game is capable of 9999 damage. I also explained why it doesn't matter, so you're beating a dead horse right now.


And if your gonna say that the guide book is wrong with the characters well everyone is gonna disagree with you becuase we all know that barret sux with magic and Aeris rocks with is an so on and so forth.

The guidebook is just that, a guide. It doesn't explain every minute aspect of the game. It has no bearing on the arguments we have made at all because it saying "Cloud is a fighter" doesn't make anything we have said less true.


woot woot no comment from the opposition woot woot

My life doesn't revolve around this thread, nor does Prak's. Just because we don't reply by the time you'd like us to doesn't mean we don't have anything to say. Hasn't that been explained to you about ten times already?

well it took 2 hours and i was just being goofy

now the guidebook info is well researched and tested to be sure it is true and u can find stat charts and that online and in the guide book that prove the character roles. And the guidebook I got the info from is the offical one meaning square approved of it and knew there were no lies in it. The characters do have specific roles in battle the Materia system just allows you to alter them slightly to accomidate your own personal fighting style which isn't a bad thing but a good thing you and prak just don't want to admit it becuase it kills one of your points.

Secondly you said give me a character that isn't capable of doing 9999 with a normal attack or magic and Tifa can't except for a breif time period before her limit break bar is full and that is only with critical hits, now Aeris is not able to do that much damage becuase even if u get her to lvl 99 (which is possible before she dies) she still does not do that much damage and you said she could under normal circumstances well this is normal circumstances and she is supposed to die under normal circumstances its not like u did something to make her die so for her to get the unlimited power sources and get tons of strength and do 9999 damage wouldnt be under normal circumstances but under ABNORMAL circumstances becuase she is not supposed to be at that point in the game and would have had to be put back in through Gameshark therefore making it not normal. and before you say but with magic she could all the spells that do that much damage can't be aquired until AFTER her death. So there is no normal way for Aeris to do 9999 damage.

yeah..i only brought up aeiris becuasue you told us to name one character that isnt capable of doing 9999 damage....so it turns out that aeris fit the bar...so you going off on me for bringing her up..when you told me to seems a lil weird...as soon as somptin comes up that makes you guys look bad (ill admit...its few and far between) you guys try to mask it up by calling us dumbshits....but meh...whatever...i know im a dumbshit lol...its all good...

Trekkieboy, your arguments are getting so desperate and far-fetched now that you'd just give up if you had any sense.


now the guidebook info is well researched and tested to be sure it is true

wtf. The guidebook was written by Squaresoft according to their own needs. It's more like an extension of the packaging than a reliable information source. If you really want to try making a point, then post stat charts. That won't work well for you, I'm sure, but it would at least demonstrate a reasonably competent effort.


and u can find stat charts and that online and in the guide book that prove the character roles.

Prove it. Post the stuff you're saying is out there. If you want to convince us (and everyone else) that you're doing more than talking out your ass, then put this stuff up here for us to see. We're not going to waste our valuable time trying to dig it up for ourselves.


And the guidebook I got the info from is the offical one meaning square approved of it and knew there were no lies in it.

Or they approved the lies/half-truths. Proper misleading wording can sell a person on something far more easily than the truth, in most cases.


The characters do have specific roles in battle the Materia system just allows you to alter them slightly to accomidate your own personal fighting style which isn't a bad thing but a good thing you and prak just don't want to admit it becuase it kills one of your points.

So you're going to say the same thing I've been disproving and try to make it a stronger point by saying that I just don't want to admit it? Very weak. Run home to mommy.


Secondly you said give me a character that isn't capable of doing 9999 with a normal attack or magic and Tifa can't except for a breif time period before her limit break bar is full and that is only with critical hits,

And RM showed how Tifa IS capable of doing 9999. Point null.


now Aeris is not able to do that much damage becuase even if u get her to lvl 99 (which is possible before she dies) she still does not do that much damage and you said she could under normal circumstances well this is normal circumstances and she is supposed to die under normal circumstances its not like u did something to make her die so for her to get the unlimited power sources and get tons of strength and do 9999 damage wouldnt be under normal circumstances but under ABNORMAL circumstances becuase she is not supposed to be at that point in the game and would have had to be put back in through Gameshark therefore making it not normal. and before you say but with magic she could all the spells that do that much damage can't be aquired until AFTER her death. So there is no normal way for Aeris to do 9999 damage.

We already covered all this, except for your inane rant on normal and abnormal circumstances, which means nothing in the context of the argument you were trying to present. That was a total waste of keystrokes.

The guidebook was written by Squaresoft.

Well then if that is true I think they would know the roles of the characters better than you since they were the ones who created the characters.
Go start a new game prak and when you meet Aeris put her in the front line and give her no materia then put cloud in the backline and load him down with materia and you'll discover it wont work becuase Cloud doesn't have a lot of MP and loading him down with materia lowers his HP and strength tremendously and also lowers his other stats so he will do bad physical damage, wont last long in battle and his magic wont do nearly as much damage as his sword will Aeris will do pathetic physical damage and wont last long either becuase she has low HP and she will take a major beating in the front line, While if you did the exact opposite Cloud would do good damage with his sword, and have enough HP and strength to survive in the front. Aeris will have magic to use to deal decent damage and she will be safe in the back so both will be able to kill enemies and survive.

Now my "rant" with normality was in context if you read back a bit becuase RM was saying that its a Normal circumstance to have Aeris not die and that is not true it is normal to have her die and abnormal to have her not die so she never has the potential to do 9999 damage with a normal attack.

Now Tifa is only capable of doing 9999 damage for a breif period of time when her limit break bar is almost full and that is only with critical hits, this is because the amount of damage she does is linked with her limit break bar when using her most powerful weapon. When the bar is empty she does pathetic damage while when its full she does godly damage but still doesn't do 9999 with a critical hit. So she is capable of it but you missed the original question he asked and that was if it was possible with a NORMAL ATTACK not a CRITICAL HIT!

Quoting only half of my comment... very sneaky. But I'm not gonna let you get away with skewing my context. I'm sure anyone reading this will be smart enough to verify what I said and realize that your so-called counter-argument wasn't anything but an attempt at distortion.

Also, you forget that while Cloud deals less damage in the back row, he can also take more. It balances out. As for Aeris, I already conceded that she is the single character that isn't equipped to perform all aspects of combat.

Your normality rant is about something we all know and also happens to be useless to the debate, due to its very nature.

You still didn't address RM's point. You just said the same thing again.

How does it feel Prak to have things taken out of context?

Now also I only qouted that much becuase that was the only info I needed to prove that point that the creators know the character roles and it is a reliable source for information. From what your saying it would be like saying Edison knew nothing about the light bulb or how it worked and just said a bunch of BS about it while some joe shmo knew everything about it. The Creator of something knows how their creation works Prak, so squaresoft knows their characters battle roles and it is safe to say they printed the truth in the guide book. Now I would believe that it was all lies if I myself witnessed it through expeirence but playing the game multiple times and using the characters in different ways has proven to me the accuracy of the guide book which is pretty much right on the dot, And almost everyone else who has played the game knows that this is true.

Now Cloud will take less damage in the back row while Aeris is alive becuase she will take the major beating. Once she dies however, Cloud is a sitting duck and will be taken down quickly.

Now My Normality "rant" is useful becuase it proves that RM was wrong by stating that it would be a normal situation to have Aeris alive after disc 1. And with the Tifa thing, I did address RM's point becuase he said all characters are able to do 9999 damage at lvl 99 with best weapons using a ,keyword, Normal attack. I have simply stated that it is only possible with a critical hit when her limit break bar is full (which is something any serious ff7 player would pick up on) which is not a normal battle situation.

How does it feel Prak to have things taken out of context?

Congratulations on shattering your credibility. Who do you expect to take you seriously after you basically admit to distorting what I've said? At least I invite you to clarify if I misunderstand something and I quote you completely.


Now also I only qouted that much becuase that was the only info I needed to prove that point that the creators know the character roles and it is a reliable source for information. From what your saying it would be like saying Edison knew nothing about the light bulb or how it worked and just said a bunch of BS about it while some joe shmo knew everything about it. The Creator of something knows how their creation works Prak, so squaresoft knows their characters battle roles and it is safe to say they printed the truth in the guide book.

Edison wasn't selling light bulbs. He just made them. Square's top concern was selling FFVII, however. Thus, your example (upon which your entire argument seems to be built) is meaningless.


Now I would believe that it was all lies if I myself witnessed it through expeirence but playing the game multiple times and using the characters in different ways has proven to me the accuracy of the guide book which is pretty much right on the dot, And almost everyone else who has played the game knows that this is true.

People once knew that the earth was flat, didn't they? The "everyone knows it's true" argument holds no weight. When I played through the game, I mostly used Cloud as a spellcaster. Guess what! His spells were stronger at the end of the game than RedXIII's, who was doing 9999 damage on physical attacks.


Now Cloud will take less damage in the back row while Aeris is alive becuase she will take the major beating. Once she dies however, Cloud is a sitting duck and will be taken down quickly.

WTF are you going on about? Are you trying to say that when Aeris dies, people in the back row suddenly take normal damage?


Now My Normality "rant" is useful becuase it proves that RM was wrong by stating that it would be a normal situation to have Aeris alive after disc 1.

Did he say that? I doubt that, but I'll look to be sure.
EDIT: He said that YOU practically said it was normal. Stop twisting what people say, creep. At least we're playing fair, if a bit rough.


And with the Tifa thing, I did address RM's point becuase he said all characters are able to do 9999 damage at lvl 99 with best weapons using a ,keyword, Normal attack. I have simply stated that it is only possible with a critical hit when her limit break bar is full (which is something any serious ff7 player would pick up on) which is not a normal battle situation.

And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks. What part of that did you not understand?

I'd just like to note, about light bulbs, Edison didn't make the ones we have today. He may have produced it, but when put into practice it was found that he didn't know every little detail about it. On that same note, just because Square did the programming it doesn't mean they are able to predict how the game will ultimately be played.

Ok Prak first of all I took your statement out of context I did not distort it is still the exact same thing you said.

Now my argument with the light bulb was that the creators know all the details of their creation and to keep thier credibilty they tell the truth about it. Now my argument was not everyone says it so therefore it is true it was that through experience I have found the guide book to be true and so have other people.

Now I did not say it was a normal circumstance for Aeris to be alive after disc 1. Unseen said she can't do 9999 damage and the only possible way would be with unlimited power sources which can't be aquired until after her death, RM then said we said it was possible under normal circumstances which we did not we said it would be possible if it was under abnormal circumstances where she would not die which he was claiming was normal. I am not twisting what people say Prak, I am just using it to my advantage.

Now you said this "And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks." Now what i was saying his that using her strongest weapon this is not possible unless her Limit bar is almost full since her attack damage is based off of the Limit bar.

Now when people are in the back row yes they do take less damage but they are also attacked less becuase the front row people are the ones taking the beating. when the front row dies the back row then becomes the main target.


I'd just like to note, about light bulbs, Edison didn't make the ones we have today. He may have produced it, but when put into practice it was found that he didn't know every little detail about it. On that same note, just because Square did the programming it doesn't mean they are able to predict how the game will ultimately be played.

But they still know what their characters are designed to do best at.

Now I did not say it was a normal circumstance for Aeris to be alive after disc 1. Unseen said she can't do 9999 damage and the only possible way would be with unlimited power sources which can't be aquired until after her death, RM then said we said it was possible under normal circumstances which we did not we said it would be possible if it was under abnormal circumstances where she would not die which he was claiming was normal. I am not twisting what people say Prak, I am just using it to my advantage.

That's not what I meant by "normal circumstances". Had you read what I said, you would have realized I defined it in terms of "had she not died". Either you are twisting what I said, or you're unable to comprehend the meaning behind what I said.


Now you said this "And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks." Now what i was saying his that using her strongest weapon this is not possible unless her Limit bar is almost full since her attack damage is based off of the Limit bar.

And I'm saying it is because I had her do it. You keep saying the same thing over and over, hoping we'll not notice. Well, either that or you don't even realize what we're actually saying.


But they still know what their characters are designed to do best at.

No, they know what they intended it to do, just like Edison knows what he designed the filament in his light bulb to do. However, the light bulb has changed since it was first created, still serving the same basic purpose (lighting an area), but not in the same way. The same holds true with the characters. They still serve the original base purpose (in their case going through Final Fantasy VII), but the way they do so has (or can) changed.

Ok Prak first of all I took your statement out of context I did not distort it is still the exact same thing you said.

Taking only part of it and using it out of context is distortion.


Now I did not say it was a normal circumstance for Aeris to be alive after disc 1. Unseen said she can't do 9999 damage and the only possible way would be with unlimited power sources which can't be aquired until after her death, RM then said we said it was possible under normal circumstances which we did not we said it would be possible if it was under abnormal circumstances where she would not die which he was claiming was normal. I am not twisting what people say Prak, I am just using it to my advantage.

That only works when your distortions aren't caught, I'm afraid.


Now you said this "And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks." Now what i was saying his that using her strongest weapon this is not possible unless her Limit bar is almost full since her attack damage is based off of the Limit bar.

Correction: Her ultimate weapon's damage is based on the limit bar. What do you suppose would happen if you used a more consistent weapon? And what do you think the effect of a few power sources would be?


Now when people are in the back row yes they do take less damage but they are also attacked less becuase the front row people are the ones taking the beating. when the front row dies the back row then becomes the main target.

I never mentioned anyone in the front row. I was making a point about how Cloud's damage would come out to be about the same whether he was in front or back because he could survive a fight longer, even if he only dealt half as much.

Prak I am not distorting what you are saying, it is still your exact words exactly how you said them I just took them out of context, Distort means to change or misshape which I have not done.

RM by saying "Aeris' death is irrelevant becuase under normal circumstances she would be able to" you are saying it is a normal thing for her not to die which is not true.

Now Prak you may not have mentioned no one being in the front row but with the example I made and we are using I said Aeris is in the front row. Also in the example I said Cloud would be loaded with materia therefore significantly lowering his HP therefore he would not last as long as had you not loaded him with materia. So Aeris would die becuase she automatically has low HP and wouldn't be able to do a good amount of damage and Cloud would then be the main target after Aeris would be taken out and with his decreased HP he would go down quickly.

And fine I give up with the Tifa thing I see now that it can be possible to do 9999.

Now with the Roles of the characters. They have a base role that is what they perform best at which square mentions in the guidebook. But you don't have to follow that if you don't want to and customize the roles to your own personal style. That is the beauty of the Materia System. The characters have predefined battle role that they work best with but you can give them your own roles and they will still work almost as well as their predefined roles. The Characters have roles in battle, You just have the power this time to either use their predefined ones or choose your own roles for them. Almost all the other Final Fantasies use this idea and you are not saying they sucked now are you? If this idea sucked so much then why would Squaresoft continue to use it?

Prak I am not distorting what you are saying, it is still your exact words exactly how you said them I just took them out of context, Distort means to change or misshape which I have not done.

By not quoting the whole thing and responding like the rest of the sentence didn't exist, its meaning was changed. You distorted it.


Now Prak you may not have mentioned no one being in the front row but with the example I made and we are using I said Aeris is in the front row.

We are not using the same example though. Similar perhaps, but not the same. Anyway, the part about Aeris has already been conceded, so you're beating a dead horse with that.


Also in the example I said Cloud would be loaded with materia therefore significantly lowering his HP therefore he would not last as long as had you not loaded him with materia.

If Cloud was loaded with materia, he would be more of a spellcaster than a damage dealer, so he would hit harder that way, further balancing the differences in tactics.


Now with the Roles of the characters. They have a base role that is what they perform best at which square mentions in the guidebook. But you don't have to follow that if you don't want to and customize the roles to your own personal style. That is the beauty of the Materia System.

Or the bane, depending on your point of view. After all, I've always said the universal abilities of the characters were a drawback.


The characters have predefined battle role that they work best with but you can give them your own roles and they will still work almost as well as their predefined roles.

In other words, you're doing a complete about face and trying to make it seem like this was your point all along...


The Characters have roles in battle, You just have the power this time to either use their predefined ones or choose your own roles for them. Almost all the other Final Fantasies use this idea and you are not saying they sucked now are you?

FFVIII carbon copied the system and I said it sucked. FFX made you work for each new ability instead of making them all interchangable like some kind of deranged Mr. Potato Head, so I didn't mind it.


If this idea sucked so much then why would Squaresoft continue to use it?

Stupidity.

Ok first of all When did we stop using the original example?

Secondly our original point was that the materia system allowed you to choose a role for your characters and then you guys came back and said then you guys said there weren't any predefined roles so it sucked so I proved that there were predefined roles just this time you have the choice to not follow them. The Materia System is a mix of the two battle role systems used in the previous Final Fantasies. So it is pretty much a best of both worlds system. It has the predefined roles for a guide and something to work with if you don't like picking roles for people yet it also gives the power of choice from the job system incase you don't like a certain characters predefined role. Now the reason Squaresoft continues to use this idea is becuase it was a good idea, it works well, and people love it, not becuase of stupidity Prak. You guys just say that becuase you can't come up with a better argument and you know the truth is becuase it is a good thing and don't want to admit it becuase it will kill your arguments and make you look bad.

Now Prak there is a difference between taking things out of context and distorting. I did not change what you said in any way I just used what I needed which you have done to me in past multiple times and when I bitched about it you denied it and called me names and that. Atleast I have the balls to admit I took something out of context unlike you, you're just mad becuase now it's happening to you, well you know what Prak, POO HOO Go cry to mommy and have her kiss it to make it better!! I am not changing your words, I'm just using them against you which you have done multiple times in the past so just suck it up and move on.

RM by saying "Aeris' death is irrelevant becuase under normal circumstances she would be able to" you are saying it is a normal thing for her not to die which is not true.

Her death is abnormal because a playable character generally does not die. However, that doesn't matter because I defined my terminology. Just because you refuse to acknowledge how I defined it does not change my overall point that if she did not die she would be exactly like every other character. Instead of addressing this you are trying to steer the debate into a direction that it becomes a battle of semantics rather than a debate about the real issue.


They have a base role that is what they perform best at which square mentions in the guidebook. But you don't have to follow that if you don't want to and customize the roles to your own personal style. That is the beauty of the Materia System. The characters have predefined battle role that they work best with but you can give them your own roles and they will still work almost as well as their predefined roles. The Characters have roles in battle, You just have the power this time to either use their predefined ones or choose your own roles for them.

They do not have pre-defined roles. We have firmly established that they do not have pre-defined roles and that the guidebook saying so has no relevance to the debate, because it has been proven that the guidebook is not always correct. Again, saying the same thing over and over again does not make it any more or less true than it was the first time it was said.


Almost all the other Final Fantasies use this idea and you are not saying they sucked now are you? If this idea sucked so much then why would Squaresoft continue to use it?

First of all, that is not true in the least. FFI, FFII, FFIV, FFVI, FFMQ, FFIX, FFX, and FFXI all have pretty clearly defined roles for the characters. The only two I can think of that are open to having about the same versatility no matter what character you use are FFVII and FFVIII, along with the two Final Fantasies that utilized the job system. In all the others, each character has a pretty distinct role in the party during battle. Two to four is hardly "almost all". Also, the reason they re-used the same basic idea again in FFVIII is because it makes it easier for stupid people to beat the game, which will lead to more copies being sold. Finally, how does other games using a concept suddenly make FFVII a better game? That's like saying; "Vincent van Gogh used the color red when painting, so if I use the color red when painting my work will suddenly be better".

If there's no reason to follow them, then the predefinitions mean jack shit.

As for "knowing the truth and not wanting to admit it," grow up and learn how to debate, you bratty kid. We mean what we say and we've given damn good reasons for it.

Lastly, there is a difference between taking things out of context and distorting and you crossed the line. You did change what I said. By subtracting part of the sentence and only responding to that, you changed its meaning. By changing its meaning, you did change what I said. You offered no retractions and no apologies for it, thus you have completely distorted its meaning.

As for saying you've used it against me... Now that I've proved the distortion, all you're doing is bragging about being a lying asshole.

In FF7 though Aeris' death is a normal thing, a normal event in a game is something happening that is supposed to happen, having Aeris alive after disc 1 is not supposed to happen therefore its not a normal thing.

FF1 you had the option to choose the roles you wanted when you choose the characters, FF3 you could change jobs, Same in FF5,7,8,9,10,10-2. Ones in the number series with predefined roles 2,4,6,11. well that 4 out of 12 that have predefined roles. in FF7 there are predefined roles, you just dont have to follow them. You say there arent predefined roles well prove it. And if you say "well my Aeris does 6000 damage on normal attack" Well thats just becuase your not choosing to use the predefined role which is perfectly fine the predefined role is just there to say this is what they are best as but you don't have to use it if you don't want to, But if you had your Aeris use magic she would do better, but you don't have to if you don't want to, as I've have said this is the beauty of this system.



Lastly, there is a difference between taking things out of context and distorting and you crossed the line. You did change what I said. By subtracting part of the sentence and only responding to that, you changed its meaning. By changing its meaning, you did change what I said. You offered no retractions and no apologies for it, thus you have completely distorted its meaning.

Ok you just stated what taking something out of context is. I did not change what you said, it was still your words and I did not change its meaning becuase its meaning was simple becuase it was "Squaresoft makes the guidebooks" and with that I was able to prove a point the rest of the sentence you wrote was just you ranting about how Squaresoft lied in the guide book which I acknowledged in my future response by saying Squaresoft would not lie in a guidebook to keep their credibilty.

Now it may not have had the same affect you intended it to but taking things out of context does that sometimes. Distorting it would mean changing the words and what not which i did not do. All I did was take a small chunk out of your response and use it to my advantage (which YOU have done in the past) I did NOT change what you said in any way. You are just upset becuase you can't beleive you were actually stupid enough to make that statement knowing it could be used against you.

In FF7 though Aeris' death is a normal thing, a normal event in a game is something happening that is supposed to happen, having Aeris alive after disc 1 is not supposed to happen therefore its not a normal thing.

Are you TRYING to sound ignorant? That is not what I am debating. I am saying that IF SHE HAD NOT DIED SHE WOULD HAVE THE SAME POTENTIAL TO DO 9999 DAMAGE AS EVERY OTHER CHARACTER AND THAT BECAUSE SHE DIED YOU EITHER HAVE TO APPROCH IT FROM THE STAND POINT OF "HAD SHE NOT DIED THIS WOULD BE THE OUTCOME" OR IGNORE HER AS A CHARACTER. I can't say it any clearer than that, so don't bother replying to this aspect of the debate again if all you're going to do is harp on the fact that she died.


FF1 you had the option to choose the roles you wanted when you choose the characters

But once the game started you could not change their roles like you can in FFVII, meaning they each have a distinct role.


FF3 you could change jobs, Same in FF5,7,8,9,10,10-2. Ones in the number series with predefined roles 2,4,6,11. well that 4 out of 12 that have predefined roles.

It would have saved time if you had gone through each individually like you started to with FFI, but I guess I'll just have to do it for you.

FFII, FFIV, FFVI, and FFXI don't need to be discussed because you said that they have pre-defined roles, nor do FFIII or FFV because they are a job system. NOTE THAT THE JOB SYSTEM DOES NOT HELP OR HINDER EITHER CASE BECAUSE IT IS UNQUIE IN THE SERIES.That leaves us with FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, and FFX-2. We're already 50/50, so you still were wrong when you said "almost all". I will not argue about FFVII and FFVIII. FFIX had distinct roles. Specific people used white magic, only one person used black magic, only one person could use blue magic, and there were specific characters that were capable of doing more physical damage than the magic users. This tips the scales to 60/40. FFX has specified roles because of the sphere grid. Unless you use gameshark you're going to have a really hard time making someone that starts off as a fighter your resident healer, which is not the case in FFVII. We're now at 70/30 in favor of more games having defined roles. I'll leave it at that, because I have not played FFX-2, which is why I forgot all about it when I made my original argument. From what I've seen it is like the job system, though, which would mean it would need to be discounted. That would bring the grand total to 7 games to 2 in favor of preset roles that you have to adhere to, but because I'm generous I'll say 7 to 3.

However, you're still incredibly wrong.

EDIT: Actually, I didn't even include FFMQ either. That would mean the total is either 8 to 3 or 8 to 2. Either way, you're argument is even worse than I thought.



in FF7 there are predefined roles, you just dont have to follow them. You say there arent predefined roles well prove it.

We have, we're still waiting for you to prove otherwise.


And if you say "well my Aeris does 6000 damage on normal attack" Well thats just becuase your not choosing to use the predefined role which is perfectly fine the predefined role is just there to say this is what they are best as but you don't have to use it if you don't want to, But if you had your Aeris use magic she would do better, but you don't have to if you don't want to, as I've have said this is the beauty of this system.

1) You pulled that example out of your ass, and put those words into our mouths. That right there proves you have nothing of value to say.

2) Prove a character is "better" when you use them in the role that the book says you should.

OK first of all FFIX if i remember was a modifyed version of the Job system. FFX is just like FFVII becuase if I want to I can change Tidus and Yuna in the begining with a freind sphere and then Tidus will be a white mage and Yuna will be a warrior, even though there predefined roles are the opposite you don't need a gameshark to do it. In FFVII Aeris is designed to be a mage but if you want u can make her a warrior, Cloud is desgined to be a warrior but if you want you can make him a mage. And with FF1 you still have the choice to choose the roles you want your characters to have. In FFX-2 you can change jobs at any time but they still have predefined roles that they are best at. so that is 8 to 4.

Now with Aeris if you just try to make her beat an enemy with her staff it doesn't work well while if you make her use magic she does good damage and it works becuase she excels with magic and her predefined role is a MAGE! With Cloud you can make him use magic early on but it doesn't work well becuase of his low MP while if you use him as a warrior it works well becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! But you can still have him be a mage and have it work decently if you have someone who can be a good warrior to take his place.

Finally Aeris doesn't have the potential to do 9999 damage becuase whe dies in the end of disc 1 meaning her fullest potential is reached at the end of disc 1 before you can max her stats. Now this is under normal circumstances. Now she does have the potential to do 9999 damage under abnormal circumstances which is what you are talking about becuase then you can use game shark to revive her and now her fullest potential is meet at the end of disc 3 so her stats can be maxed and she can then do 9999 damage but like I said these would be abnormal circumstances.

OK first of all FFIX if i remember was a modifyed version of the Job system. FFX is just like FFVII becuase if I want to I can change Tidus and Yuna in the begining with a freind sphere and then Tidus will be a white mage and Yuna will be a warrior, even though there predefined roles are the opposite you don't need a gameshark to do it. In FFVII Aeris is designed to be a mage but if you want u can make her a warrior, Cloud is desgined to be a warrior but if you want you can make him a mage. And with FF1 you still have the choice to choose the roles you want your characters to have. In FFX-2 you can change jobs at any time but they still have predefined roles that they are best at. so that is 8 to 4.

I don't know where you get the 12th game from. The ones we are concerned with are FFI, FFII, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXI, FFMQ, and (because I'm being nice) FFX-2. That's 11 games. Moving on, you're wrong about FFIX. It is closer to FFIV than any of the other Final Fantasies. Each character has a set of skills, like in FFIV. They cannot learn every skill, each has a set of their own skills. The only difference is that in FFIX you need to learn them through items.

FFX is different from FFVII because you cannot change back and forth, unless you've used gameshark and have unlimited sphears that allow you to change the position of where your character's icon is on the gird. Your argument is weak at best.

In FFI character roles are set in stone. Cloud is a "fighter" at the beginning of the game, but you can make him use any magic he wants. You can never make a non-magic using character in FFI use magic. Again, your point makes little to no sense.

I said I would let you have FFX-2, even though it seems to fall under the job system (which would nullify it), so the count still stands at 8 to 3, in favor of games that have set roles.

EDIT: By the way, you have yet to explain why it matters.


Now with Aeris if you just try to make her beat an enemy with her staff it doesn't work well while if you make her use magic she does good damage and it works becuase she excels with magic and her predefined role is a MAGE! With Cloud you can make him use magic early on but it doesn't work well becuase of his low MP while if you use him as a warrior it works well becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! But you can still have him be a mage and have it work decently if you have someone who can be a good warrior to take his place.

You basically just admitted that you're wrong by saying you can switch Cloud's role.


Finally Aeris doesn't have the potential to do 9999 damage becuase whe dies in the end of disc 1 meaning her fullest potential is reached at the end of disc 1 before you can max her stats. Now this is under normal circumstances. Now she does have the potential to do 9999 damage under abnormal circumstances which is what you are talking about becuase then you can use game shark to revive her and now her fullest potential is meet at the end of disc 3 so her stats can be maxed and she can then do 9999 damage but like I said these would be abnormal circumstances.

You missed my whole point. I made it as clear as I could, and yet you still missed it. Go back, read the bold, and try again because you basically just agreed with me. Do you even know what you�re trying to prove or disprove?

Ok now I get 12 becuase you forgot FF5!!!!

In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.

With FF1 yes after you choose them they are set in stone but you still have the ability to choose them unlike 4 and 6 where they are automatically set and you can't do a thing about it.

Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do. If they had absolutly no predefined roles then if you made Cloud a white mage and Aeris a warrior then Aeris' limit break should become Braver and Cloud's should become healing wind, But they don't, Cloud's is still Braver (a warrior Limit Break) becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! and Aeris' limit break is still Healing Wind (A white mage Limit Break) becuase her predefined role is a WHITE MAGE! So yes you can change their roles to your own liking and have it work but they still have predefined roles that they preform best at. So its like this, They have a predefined role and a secondary job on top of that, one can be chosen and one can not. If you make the Predefined role and the secondary job match the character flourishes and works to its peak perfomance while if you make them clash it works decently but the character does not reach its peak performance. It is this element of choice of roles and predefined roles that makes the Materia system unique and enjoyable.

And with the Aeris thing, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything I'm just saying Aeris is not able to ever do 9999 damage becuase she dies before you can give her unlimited sources so it is safe to say her maxed stats are the raw stats she has at lvl 99 maybe a little more if you gave her the few sources you find before u can get unlimited ones. Now at lvl 99 Aeris does not do 9999 damage, these are the normal circumstances not what you were saying becuase IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE AERIS AFTER DISC 1!!!!!!! So she can not do 9999 damage ever unless u cheat which if u cheat you can make anyone do 9999 damage with shitty stats.

Ok now I get 12 becuase you forgot FF5!!!!

No, I omitted the Final Fantasies that are job related because they don't help either of our cases. Re-read what I said, because you obviously missed that point.


In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.

Your argument doesn't work because you can't pick a character's sphere up and move it at will. In FFVII you can switch materia to make a character whatever you want.


With FF1 yes after you choose them they are set in stone but you still have the ability to choose them unlike 4 and 6 where they are automatically set and you can't do a thing about it.

But it doesn't make it like FFVII where you can change your characters ONCE THE GAME HAS STARTED. You seem to miss the heart of every point someone else makes.

Anyway, if you want to continue talking about individual games like this, explain why it is important that it be proved/disproved that it is vital to discern which games are like FFVII and which ones are not. At this point I see no reason why it even helps your case, in fact, I have asked you at least three times to explain why it is important, and you ignore it each time. If you do not address this issue in your next post I will assume that you have no reasoning behind it, and ignore anything pertaining to it because I don't have the time to argue for no reason.


Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do. If they had absolutly no predefined roles then if you made Cloud a white mage and Aeris a warrior then Aeris' limit break should become Braver and Cloud's should become healing wind, But they don't, Cloud's is still Braver (a warrior Limit Break) becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! and Aeris' limit break is still Healing Wind (A white mage Limit Break) becuase her predefined role is a WHITE MAGE! So yes you can change their roles to your own liking and have it work but they still have predefined roles that they preform best at. So its like this, They have a predefined role and a secondary job on top of that, one can be chosen and one can not. If you make the Predefined role and the secondary job match the character flourishes and works to its peak perfomance while if you make them clash it works decently but the character does not reach its peak performance. It is this element of choice of roles and predefined roles that makes the Materia system unique and enjoyable.

I already explained why the materia system isn't unique, so I'm not going to bother commenting on that again. Also, limit breaks don't always dictate what the character is supposed to do. Nor does one aspect of a character dictate what that character is. In Neverwinter Nights you can start the game with 1 level as a sorcerer, and then take 39 levels of fighter. Just because you were a sorcerer at first it doesn't mean that aspect of your character outweighs those 39 levels of fighter.


And with the Aeris thing, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything I'm just saying Aeris is not able to ever do 9999 damage becuase she dies before you can give her unlimited sources so it is safe to say her maxed stats are the raw stats she has at lvl 99 maybe a little more if you gave her the few sources you find before u can get unlimited ones. Now at lvl 99 Aeris does not do 9999 damage, these are the normal circumstances not what you were saying becuase IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE AERIS AFTER DISC 1!!!!!!! So she can not do 9999 damage ever unless u cheat which if u cheat you can make anyone do 9999 damage with shitty stats.

Just by saying that you have proven that you never even knew what my point was to begin with. Either that or you are purposely ignoring it because you can't counter it. Either way you're a waste of time, really.

ok now you guys are just saying this isn't true or right just for the sake of saying this isn't true of right.

And with the Aeris thing, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything I'm just saying Aeris is not able to ever do 9999 damage becuase she dies before you can give her unlimited sources so it is safe to say her maxed stats are the raw stats she has at lvl 99 maybe a little more if you gave her the few sources you find before u can get unlimited ones. Now at lvl 99 Aeris does not do 9999 damage, these are the normal circumstances not what you were saying becuase IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE AERIS AFTER DISC 1!!!!!!! So she can not do 9999 damage ever unless u cheat which if u cheat you can make anyone do 9999 damage with shitty stats.

I trained Aeris to lvl 99 in disc one. She did 9999 damage.


Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do.

The only place where the characters are differnt from each others are in their limit breaks. I didnt feel any urgent need to "take Tifa because I needed a healr" because hey look! Cloud can heal too.

Each character fills no roles. Cloud is a warrior because he has a giant sword. What does that make Barret? What does that make Tifa? I have no reason to Barret if I need more punch because I got Cloud. I dont need Aeris to cast summons because Cloud can cast them just as well. Your point has been killed.


In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.

FIne you can. But in FF7, everyone is everything. At once from the beginning of the game. In FF10 you are supposed to specialize in one area of the sphere grid till later. So I needed Yuna most of the game. I needed Lulu to cast my black magic. In FF7, I could do all that with Cloud in Sector 7, 15 min into the game.

That's it. I'm done with Trekkie. I know what he's going to say about it, but I just don't care. When he inevitably says I'm running away because I can't win, everyone will know that's false. He's full of bullshit, ignores our points, twists words in ways that we never would dream of using, then tries to make us seem like the assholes, and won't learn. He's a hopeless loser who has been smashed many times over the course of the debate, yet continues to spout the exact same nonsense post after post, and I refuse to contend any further with someone like him.

If someone who can give a good argument comes forth, I'll rejoin this. Until then, my time is better spent elsewhere.

ok now you guys are just saying this isn't true or right just for the sake of saying this isn't true of right.

You are the densest person I have ever met. I sincerely hope you've been joking around this whole time; otherwise you're in for one sorry existence. Also, don't give a little speech about how we're suddenly attacking you and moving away from FFVII. You just attacked our character, which gives us every right to point out that you're the biggest prick posting in this thread right now.

You really are a waste of everyone's time at this point.

Trekkie, you're REALLY close to making me bring back the restaurant pun.

edit: Oh, and don't even TRY to compare the materia system to FFI's system. FFI's system was and still is by far my favourite of the series because it provided the option of customizing your party without letting you have everyone do everything. If you wanted to have a healer, it HAD to be a white mage, and you had to decide that at the beginning. If you wanted to be an idiot (like me) you picked a party of all thieves. If you wanted a powerful physical fighter later in the game, you picked a black belt. You could choose what your party was, but your characters were PERMANENTLY limited by their class. FFVII provided no such limitations, as you could give every ability to every character with a couple of switches in the menue.

He got banned for spamming chat, apparently. Sooo he's likely to be gone for a while.

Darn, buuuuuuuuuurp! I wanted to take him to school over FFI.

(Sorry I posted in the wrong topic) Delete this someone.

He got banned for spamming chat, apparently. Sooo he's likely to be gone for a while.

WRONG AGAIN!!!

That's nice, William Shatner, but would you like to try your luck against our arguments?

After thinking on it I have come to a conclusion. No character is able to do 9999 damage all the time. This is becuase in all this ranting no one has brought the one main variable into this argument, the enemies defense!

A pathetic lvl 1 enemy with low defense (such as a hell rider)all characters will be able to do 9999 damage but with stronger enemies the will not be able to, enemies with average defense the attacks will do around 5000-7000 damage and even stronger enemies with high defenses (such as an Iron Giant)the damage dealt will be even less (somewhere in the 1000-3000 range).

Now before you say "But under normal cricumstances they would be able to do 9999 damage" I would like to bring up one thing. Becuase each enemies stats are different and are at different levels from one another they all then have different defense and therefore your characters will do a wide range of damage. So with this said it is safe to claim that there are NO normal battles, there are average battles where you do average damage but this average damage is not 9999.

This average damage can be found by adding up the damage dealt to all the enemies and dividing it by the number of enemies thus creating an average battle with average damage. This damage you will then find to be in the 6000-8000 damage range.

Now I know what you are all thinking, "but wait our base argument was the characters have the potential to do 9999 damage everything he is addressing are addons to that argument we can still get him", WRONG. Yes all the characters do have the potential to do their maximum amount of damage it just happens to be that that maximum amount of damage in FF7 is 9999. But in what Final Fantasy game are all the characters not able to do their maximum amount of damage? Its just that in FF7 it was 9999 while in others it might have been lower or higher due to game programming limitations. So if your gonna say that Final Fantasy VII sucks for this reason you might as well say ALL the Final Fantasy's suck for this reason.

Now on to Character Roles

I agree that programmers cannot forsee the way the game can be played for example in Wow they cannot tell that some chars use their abilites to skip content and must be patched but that does not mean there are not roles. The roles are simply there as a guide line saying that this is what the character is designed to do and what they will do best but you dont have to follow them and you can still have it work out decently. Squaresoft this time is just saying that that here are the preset roles of the characters and what they are designed to and what they will do best at, but you don't have to follow them this time, you can assign them the roles you choose to fit your unique style through the options we are giving you through the materia the preset roles are just what they will do best at.

This average damage can be found by adding up the damage dealt to all the enemies and dividing it by the number of enemies thus creating an average battle with average damage. This damage you will then find to be in the 6000-8000 damage range.

Show me the proof that this will ALWAYS hold true with every character at level 99. Right now you're pulling random numbers out of the air, so unless you can offer me solid proof that every character will have an average damage of 6000-8000 at level 99 everything you said before this paragraph is wasted, as well as the paragraph after.


I agree that programmers cannot forsee the way the game can be played for example in Wow they cannot tell that some chars use their abilites to skip content and must be patched but that does not mean there are not roles. The roles are simply there as a guide line saying that this is what the character is designed to do and what they will do best but you dont have to follow them and you can still have it work out decently. Squaresoft this time is just saying that that here are the preset roles of the characters and what they are designed to and what they will do best at, but you don't have to follow them this time, you can assign them the roles you choose to fit your unique style through the options we are giving you through the materia the preset roles are just what they will do best at.

You've missed the point again. Go back, re-read what was said, and then try to respond.

Yes those averages are estimates becuase I can't think of the exact numbers of the top of my head, but, my characters are all maxed out and their average damage is in the 6000-8000 range due to enemy defense now yes they do do 9999 damage on those enemies with critical hits and with normal hits on weaker enemies but just becuase on the enemies with lower defense you do 9999 damage it is not true to claim that in an average battle that 9999 is your damage that you will do on every enemy.The enemies with higher and average defense you will do lower amounts of damage than the enemies with low defense. so if you take the damage dealt to these enemies and average it you will get a number in the 6000-8000 range you will not get 9999 damage becuase the enemies with higher defense lower the average damage, which is the point I am trying make which is not all characters do 9999 damage all the time like you guys were claiming but instead do an average damage that is lower do to stronger enemies.

Oh and I love how you called my final paragraph on this topic trash when it is not.

Yes those averages are estimates becuase I can't think of the exact numbers of the top of my head, but, my characters are all maxed out and their average damage is in the 6000-8000 range due to enemy defense now yes they do do 9999 damage on those enemies with critical hits and with normal hits on weaker enemies but just becuase on the enemies with lower defense you do 9999 damage it is not true to claim that in an average battle that 9999 is your damage that you will do on every enemy.The enemies with higher and average defense you will do lower amounts of damage than the enemies with low defense. so if you take the damage dealt to these enemies and average it you will get a number in the 6000-8000 range you will not get 9999 damage becuase the enemies with higher defense lower the average damage, which is the point I am trying make which is not all characters do 9999 damage all the time like you guys were claiming but instead do an average damage that is lower do to stronger enemies.

Offer. Proof. Or. Don�t. Post.


Oh and I love how you called my final paragraph on this topic trash when it is not.

I didn't call it anything; AGAIN you are putting words in people's mouths. However, I'm no longer devoting as much time to my responses because, as I said, you're a waste of our time and someone who never offers anything valid or new.

everything you said before this paragraph is wasted, as well as the paragraph after.

Theres where you called the paragraph a waste therefore meaning trash.

now my point is not for mathematical accuracy, it is that you will not do 9999 damage all the time in an average battle becuase even if every enemy you did 9999 damage except for one with high defense you did 4000 that 4000 would lower the average, maybe not by a lot but it would lower it and now when we think about the real enemies there are more than one that have high defense cuasing you to do little damage that would lower that 9999 damage by even more. So in an average battle the average damage would not be 9999 but lower and I am estimating it in the 6000-8000 range becuase adding in all the enemies that you do high damage and all the ones you do low damage lowers the average.

Theres where you called the paragraph a waste therefore meaning trash.

You twisted my words. What I said was: Show me the proof that this will ALWAYS hold true with every character at level 99. Right now you're pulling random numbers out of the air, so unless you can offer me solid proof that every character will have an average damage of 6000-8000 at level 99 everything you said before this paragraph is wasted, as well as the paragraph after.

Obviously nothing Prak said about twisting people's words means anything to you. Honestly, are you just trying to wear us down with your constant stupidity?


now my point is not for mathematical accuracy, it is that you will not do 9999 damage all the time in an average battle becuase even if every enemy you did 9999 damage except for one with high defense you did 4000 that 4000 would lower the average, maybe not by a lot but it would lower it and now when we think about the real enemies there are more than one that have high defense cuasing you to do little damage that would lower that 9999 damage by even more. So in an average battle the average damage would not be 9999 but lower and I am estimating it in the 6000-8000 range becuase adding in all the enemies that you do high damage and all the ones you do low damage lowers the average.

You're not offering proof. If you cannot offer proof don't bother commenting on this again.

I'm sure you're going to comment again, but I am also sure it will be a waste of everyone's time. I honestly hope that you're not as old as your profile said, otherwise I hope you are profoundly retarded. If not, I hope you have never made a serious post in this thread, and are merely trying to push our buttons. If not, I have lost faith in whatever school system produced you. Yes, I'm being blunt, and yes I'm getting personal, but you have become far too annoying to be civil about this. If you do not offer anything of substance I will no reply to you again. If I do not to reply then my silence should be taken to mean that there is nothing worth replying to, not that you have said something I cannot counter. Now, because I am sure you can't produce a valid argument, let me wish you luck in talking (or typing as the case may be) to the wall.

Ok my freind and I are working on a mathmatical equation right now to figure this out and get proof of average damage when we find it I'll post it.

He's asking for proof that you won't always do 9999; proof that doesn't exist, I might add. If you work at it enough, you can get your str. stat to 255, at which point you will invariably do 9999 damage with even the weakest weapons. I would like to point out that even my str stat with Cloud which is NOT 255 always does 9999 to iron giants. And anyway, I fail to see the relevance of your point. Saying that you won't always do 9999 damage does not make the materia system any better.

So in an average battle the average damage would not be 9999 but lower and I am estimating it in the 6000-8000 range becuase adding in all the enemies that you do high damage and all the ones you do low damage lowers the average.

Average battle?! Are you retarded? Man you have lost the right to speak.


This average damage can be found by adding up the damage dealt to all the enemies and dividing it by the number of enemies thus creating an average battle with average damage. This damage you will then find to be in the 6000-8000 damage range.

AVERAGE DAMAGE?! Okay. Look at it this way (some people just cant see it RETARD)

Cloud vs a Monster. Cloud deals 9999 damage at all times with any weapon but Ultima Weapon. One moster. One damage. 9999/1. That is 9999.

Okay lets do this again. Cloud vs 4 monsters. 4X Slash. 9999 x 4. That is total damage. Divide by 4 and you get 9999.

Okay lets do this again. Cloud versus a giant dragon thingie with a shitload of HP. Lets say, 99,000 HP. 9999*10 is 99000. The dragon dies. 99,000 x 1. Divided by one enemy is 99,000 average damage.

Okay lets do this again. Yuffie versus 10000000 monsters. She deals 9999 damage to each of them. 9999 x 10000000. Divided by 10000000. OMG. IS IT 9999?! Is Treekie a RETARD?!?!

Point PROVED! GWAHAHAHA.

You are crying about the enemy defense, but I have never done anything less that 9999 versus anyone or anything with any character in the game. Sephiroth? Nothing under that unless he casts barrier. Emerald? Ruby? Nothing under 9999 and my character stats were not even at 255.

At 255 strength even the Buster Sword does 9999 damage.

You are crying about the enemy defense, but I have never done anything less that 9999 versus anyone or anything with any character in the game.
actually...that is quite impossible in three ways....
a) you probably arent able to do 9999 damage until late disc 2...and you said anyone or anything with any character in the game, meaning the whole game....which i know what you mean...but you should word it more carefully lol :P
b) tifa cant do 9999 damage unless her limit bar is near full (and its hard to always keep it that full), and vincent has to defeat a lot of monsters to deal that kind of damage (and yes, im sure you meant after beefing all the characters up, bla bla bla...but again..im saying that you shud word your statement a lil more carefully)
c)some monsters (i think) cant be harmed with physical attacks

and i dont see the point in calling people names on here...its starting to begin again...prove everyone wrong to you hearts content...but leave the assholedness, yes, assholedness (i like making words :D) outta it...


Offer. Proof. Or. Don’t. Post.
i seriously havent seen you post solid proof to show that the characters do 9999 damage...so actually your too pulling random numbers out too...along with him

and why the fuck are we still talking about how much damage characters in the game deal anyway?!?!?!? Everyone on this thread is so content at proving each other wrong...you linger on and on and on and on and on about useless shit...argh....enough to make a sane person go crazy (thankfully all of us dont fit into the sane category)

anywho...goodnight for now

Actually, it's quite possible to do 9999 damage in the first disk. Just go to Temple of the Ancients, get this nice little thing called "Morph" materia, go to the gongaga reactor, and firght those weird tank things, making sure to morph them. What do you get? POWER SOURCES! If you spend enough time there, you can get EVERYONE up to a strength stat of 255, at which point you will ALWAYS do 9999. Even with no weapon at all, which isn't even possible, you would do 9999. Why is this? Because your attack stat, which determines how much damage you do, is found by adding your strength stat and your weapon's power. The max is 255, so if your weapon has power of 0, you still do the same amount of damage.

My only question is what the Hell the relevance of this is. What does this prove about the materia system? Jim, are you trying to deny that materia makes it possible for anyone to do anything? I know that Aeris has an innately higher magic stat, but that really doesn't make that much of a difference. You say that Cloud has only a small amount of MP, but did it occur to you that that might be because you didn't load him down with magic materia? For all practical intents and purposes, characters did not have specific functions, and there was no challenge in creating a balanced party because EVERYONE could use cure at any time. You know how I fought the elevator bosses? EVERYONE casts bolt over and over again, and they all did virtually the same damage. It just gets kind of dumb when a boss is weak against a certain magic so you just have everyone equip that magic.

but still...fine...i guess i have to word my statements more carefully...hehe...the VERY VERY first battle you get into with cloud...you do not do 9999 damage...and that still a character in the game. So you cant do that much damage with him.

i seriously havent seen you post solid proof to show that the characters do 9999 damage...so actually your too pulling random numbers out too...along with him

The difference is that it has been confirmed by multiple people that they can do 9999 with every character. There is no confirmation that 6000-8000 is an "average" damage with everyone at level 99. He even admitted that he is estimating, which doesn't fly. That's why he needs to offer proof. If he is stating it as fact there has to be some form of proof behind it. I'll admit, it is a lot easier to prove that a character can do 9999 damage than it is to prove what the average damage is that you'll do in the game, but those are the breaks. If he doesn't offer testable proof then the argument doesn't count. The reason I don't have to is because it has been tested, and proven, that all characters can do 9999.

As for the debate over damage itself, I think it spawned from the statement that characters can be exchanged without actually changing the party make-up, essentially meaning the game really only needs three characters to beat it. However, you're right, he is concentrating on proving people wrong, and not the actual debate. I asked him to explain why certain arguments were important to his point, and he ignored it three times.

Ok I've found an equation and I'm working it out, I'm just having a little trouble with one variable though and that is power of attack so once i figure that our i will have 99% accurate proof.

can do...and will do is two diff things here. Yes, every character (cept for aeris...which i know dragoncurry said she can...but im in the long long process of leveling her up to 99 jus to see) can do 9999 damage...no doubt on this one...this case is closed...but some monsters do OCCASIONALLY take less damage due to certain circumstances

which is what i am working on.

Ok I've got a working theoretical equation I'm going to be testing it and if it works I'll post the results.

I'm pretty sure I never said "will always do 9999". However, what really needs to be done is a comparison between the damage output of one character in comparison to another. Merely saying, �characters don�t always do 9999� or �the average damage this character will do is X� doesn�t offer anything to the debate, because this is being used as proof that exchanging one character at level 99 will have a greater affect on the party than changing the set of limit breaks that character has. Also, magic needs to be taken into consideration as well. It is more of a question of �how much of a difference in damage will the characters have� not �can they all reach 9999�. If the damage difference is negligible, then the argument loses its base.

well there is an equation for magic but ill have to work it out too.

I know that you originally werent saying that RM but the argument turned into this whole thing of "in a normal battle under normal circumstances u will do 9999 damage" and what i am trying to prove is that there are no normal battles or normal circumstances but an average battle situation where the average damage will not be 9999 but in the 6000-8000 range and you said get mathmatical proof which is what I am working on I'm just gonna need some time.

and my argument is also now that if your gonna say FF7 sucks becuase the characters can do their max damage you might as well say all the FF's suck becuase there is not a single FF where the characters are not capable of doing their max damage.

Then don't use their final weapons. Tifa WILL do 9999 with another weapon. As will Cloud. And Vincent. And everyone else.

well there is an equation for magic but ill have to work it out too.

I know that you originally werent saying that RM but the argument turned into this whole thing of "in a normal battle under normal circumstances u will do 9999 damage" and what i am trying to prove is that there are no normal battles or normal circumstances but an average battle situation where the average damage will not be 9999 but in the 6000-8000 range and you said get mathmatical proof which is what I am working on I'm just gonna need some time.

That's all well and good if you want it for your own information, but it won't mean anything to the debate about FFVII being a good or bad game.


and my argument is also now that if your gonna say FF7 sucks becuase the characters can do their max damage you might as well say all the FF's suck becuase there is not a single FF where the characters are not capable of doing their max damage.

I never said it sucks because they can do their max damage, you nimrod.

EDIT: Actually, from now on I won't even bother correcting you. If you say something stupid I'll just ignore you and let you wallow in your own warped sense of self-righteousness.

Hey I found a problem in my calculations and I need to know what Cloud's raw strength is at lvl 99.

Hey I found a problem in my calculations and I need to know what Cloud's raw strength is at lvl 99.
Go play the game and find out for yourself, it's quite easy.

I dont want to take the time to start a new game and lvl cloud up to lvl 99

I wouldn't know; I've never had motion sickness.

I'm sorry, I just had to say that.

Its 10000000.

no its not cuz the max is 255

no its not cuz the max is 255
You can go above 255, but it'll still say 255, but at that point it won't make much a difference, so go figure.

...
EDIT...well, this was supposed to be above chorns post...but meh

You know guys, this is all totally irrelevant. Unless Jim is going to prove that this has anything to do with how good the materia system is, there's no point in talking about people's natural statistics at different levels.

I need that stat for my mathmatical equation so i can figure the rate of growth for Power of Attack.

And it is releavent for me to prove my point which is that there is no normal battle but an average one with average damage which is in the 6000-8000 range so then no character can do 9999 all the time. Now the reason this is important is becuase you guys said the materia system sucked becuase all the characters could do 9999 damage and we're just saying that if your gonna say the materia system sucks becuase of this then all the Final Fantasy Battle systems suck becuase of this becuase there is not a single Final Fantasy where the characters at some point can not do their max damage.

Tell me who said that, because I know I didn't.

RM's exact words were in response to our praise of the materia system was "show me a character who can not do 9999 damage...go on I'll wait" implying that doing 9999 was a bad thing and that the materia system sucked becuase of it, so all we are saying is that in an average battle you would not do 9999 damage and if its a bad thing being able to do 9999 damage and a battle system sux cuz of that than you might as well say all the battle systems suck becuase all the characters in all the FF's are able to do their max damage at one point or another.

SO that is the reason we are arguing over the damage thing?

Well let me tell you Trekkie. Rabid Monkey's reason is wrong. But the materia system still sucks. You want to know why?


I trained Aeris to lvl 99 in disc one. She did 9999 damage.

Quote:
Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do.


The only place where the characters are differnt from each others are in their limit breaks. I didnt feel any urgent need to "take Tifa because I needed a healr" because hey look! Cloud can heal too.

Each character fills no roles. Cloud is a warrior because he has a giant sword. What does that make Barret? What does that make Tifa? I have no reason to Barret if I need more punch because I got Cloud. I dont need Aeris to cast summons because Cloud can cast them just as well. Your point has been killed.

Quote:
In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.


FIne you can. But in FF7, everyone is everything. At once from the beginning of the game. In FF10 you are supposed to specialize in one area of the sphere grid till later. So I needed Yuna most of the game. I needed Lulu to cast my black magic. In FF7, I could do all that with Cloud in Sector 7, 15 min into the game.

The materia system was good. Many people will disagree, but I think that the junction system on FF8 is better than FF7. It is customizable (if that is a word) :).

For the record, my reason was more that every character is capable of the same damage output, not that 9999 damage is a bad thing. I would have thought everyone would have learned that anything Mr. Startrek says shouldn't be taken seriously by now.

The materia system was good. Many people will disagree, but I think that the junction system on FF8 is better than FF7. It is customizable (if that is a word) :).

No offense to you, but the junction system was WAAAYYYY too easy. If you just knew a little bit about it, you could quite easily have Squall doing 2000 damage in the Dollet field exam. If you know what you're doing, the junction system can jack up your stats so much that you're literally invincible, and it doesn't even take much work. Apart from that, characters had almost no value as components of your party, other than Squall, who was the ultimate strong guy who could kill everything in one hit. I thought FFVII and FFVIII had systems that made the game too easy, even if I did enjoy them. However, the reason why I enjoyed them was because I'm a weirdo who likes to take bosses to school in ridiculous ways. In FFVIII, I've beaten bosses entirely with one character's physical attack because I was trying (and I failed) to mug them. Maybe I'm just kind of rambling, but these systems were just too easy.

No offense to you, but the junction system was WAAAYYYY too easy. If you just knew a little bit about it, you could quite easily have Squall doing 2000 damage in the Dollet field exam. If you know what you're doing, the junction system can jack up your stats so much that you're literally invincible, and it doesn't even take much work. Apart from that, characters had almost no value as components of your party, other than Squall, who was the ultimate strong guy who could kill everything in one hit. I thought FFVII and FFVIII had systems that made the game too easy, even if I did enjoy them. However, the reason why I enjoyed them was because I'm a weirdo who likes to take bosses to school in ridiculous ways. In FFVIII, I've beaten bosses entirely with one character's physical attack because I was trying (and I failed) to mug them. Maybe I'm just kind of rambling, but these systems were just too easy.

That wasnt my point. my point is that the Junction system was a lot more user-friendly and customizable. And I do know what I am on about. It is just as easy to get Squall's HP over 1000 before you get to the Fire Cavern (and that is without training to level 100 in the Training centre).

See you idiot. You brought up a whole new point. And now trekkie will miss my post and go on talking like an idiot. WHo cares about the junction system?!

again...why cant we keep the debating peaceful...its ok to not call at least one person some dumb name...its not like it does you any good to do it anyways

For the record, my reason was more that every character is capable of the same damage output, not that 9999 damage is a bad thing. I would have thought everyone would have learned that anything Mr. Startrek says shouldn't be taken seriously by now.


Ok you may not mean it now but when you originally said it in the context and way you said it made it seem like a bad thing.

And in FF7 there are predefined roles you just don't have to follow them. In this one its like "hey everyone can use magic but these people here are the ones designed to use it becuase they dont do good physical damage do to their weapons.

And Dragoncurry I calculated your Aeris's damage with maxed stats and her best weapon but since i couldnt calculate her POA i used 25 which is about average and got 9456 without enemy defense and against an iron giant it would be 4685 and against an average enemy it would be 6754. And then i did it with clouds max POA and still only got 8567 on an average enemy.

And Dragoncurry I calculated your Aeris's damage with maxed stats and her best weapon but since i couldnt calculate her POA i used 25 which is about average and got 9456 without enemy defense and against an iron giant it would be 4685 and against an average enemy it would be 6754. And then i did it with clouds max POA and still only got 8567 on an average enemy.

u jus said aeris sux cuz low dmg dat mean u think ff7 bad game. u loose.

Lose*

Power Rangers > FF7 > Every video game

You just contradicted yourself.

Power Rangers had a video game, can't be better than itself. :P

I meant the show Power Rangers

The game sucked, but on the scale of greatness Power Rangers sits on top like dairy on a food pyramid

See you idiot. You brought up a whole new point. And now trekkie will miss my post and go on talking like an idiot. WHo cares about the junction system?!

I do. This thread is why FF7 is a good game. Someone mentioned the materia system being the best and I am disagreeing with it. Simple.

because it has the best story line, the characters reactions to thing are so different that it brings more to the story, and its AWSOME! who agrees?!

because it has the best story line, the characters reactions to thing are so different that it brings more to the story, and its AWSOME! who agrees?!

Best story line relative to what? Also, just because characters react to a given situation, that doesn�t make it a good game. Actually, I�d like you to name one game where characters don�t have a reaction, ever. Also, I'd hardly consider FFVII "awesome".

u jus said aeris sux cuz low dmg dat mean u think ff7 bad game. u loose.
Go back and read the rest of the argument you nitwit. I was not saying it sucked I was saying that Aeris does not always do 9999 damage becuase RM and everyone else on that side was saying "FF7 sux cuz all the characters are the same and can do 9999 damage" I was just proving them wrong. I was proving that the characters are not all the same cuz Cloud can do more damage than Aeris and other characters. There are roles you just don't have to use them in this Final Fantasy, and why is choice over roles a bad thing?

I think I'm gonna have to type another Essay soon to remind you guys why its storyline and what not are good.

Oh and a note to TheGreenRanger THE OLD POWER RANGERS KICKED ASS!!!!!

because it has the best story line, the characters reactions to thing are so different that it brings more to the story, and its AWSOME! who agrees?!

I agree with RM, FFVII did not have the best storyline. Out of all the FF's, Final Fantasy IX had the best.

I was saying that Aeris does not always do 9999


Cloud can do more damage than Aeris


There are roles you have to use them in this Final Fantasy

o u were sayin! da charter need 2 hav a role n cnat chang eva! but dat wuld mak da gam no fun!

Well I haven't played 9 so I won't diss it but on the scale of Final Fantasy storylines 7&8 are pretty high up there if not on the top in my opinion.


o u were sayin! da charter need 2 hav a role n cnat chang eva! but dat wuld mak da gam no fun!
FOR FUCKS SAKE BACK AND READ THE ARGUMENTS YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!

You have no idea what you are talking about. I am not saying FF7 sux im on the side that says it is a good game.

I like being high on marijuana.

lolz me 2!

Do you have down syndrome or something?

u din counta mah argumant! i r teh winnar!!! u loose

Those aren't even real words and that statment doesn't even make grammatical sense. And I suck in English class and I know that.

oooo makin funna me cuz u cant beat me!

WTF am I supposed to be beating you at? Stupidity? If thats the case than fine you win I now crown you the king of stupidity!

lolz u cant countar my argumates so u make funz of me! lolz i win

WHAT ARGUMENTS AM I SUPPOSED TO BE COUNTERING!! Everything that you post is meaningless bullshit.

Welcome to our world. Hope you learned your lesson.

I feel your pain I will be less like that from now on.

Oh and incase you don't go back and see if there were other comments made before we got a new page DAS FRUIT, GO BACK AND READ!!!

and the thread again goes to shit...this thread has milked every side that somone has had...i dont htink there is a use for it anymore...and is more of a flaming thread than anything else...yet again

Well it was going good until DAS FRUIT came along.

Best story line relative to what? Also, just because characters react to a given situation, that doesn�t make it a good game. Actually, I�d like you to name one game where characters don�t have a reaction, ever. Also, I'd hardly consider FFVII "awesome".
ok, my point was that it has a great story line and the characters "live" up to it. oh and by the way, game characters dont really have reactions so really your wrong, no game has a character that could acctually have a reaction to anything, no matter how many times you play they always are "programed" to do the same thing. and if you dont think its "awsome", then you can keep that to yourself cause really i didnt ask if you didnt think it was, asked other poeple who thaught it "was".

ok, my point was that it has a great story line and the characters "live" up to it.

Define "live up to it".


the characters reactions to thing are so different that it brings more to the story


oh and by the way, game characters dont really have reactions so really your wrong, no game has a character that could acctually have a reaction to anything, no matter how many times you play they always are "programed" to do the same thing.

You just directly contradicted yourself. A bit bi-polar, are you?


and if you dont think its "awsome", then you can keep that to yourself cause really i didnt ask if you didnt think it was, asked other poeple who thaught it "was".

Let me explain. This is a debate thread. People offer options (AS WELL AS BACKING UP WHAT THEY SAY WITH FACTS), and then people who disagree offer counter-arguments. You said something, asked if anyone agreed, I said that I did not, and offered reasons why I do not agree. It's not my fault this concept is new to you.

IMO, that whole dialogue with DASfruit was hilarious. You know, Jim, I think he MIGHT have been joking.

Or he's one of those "gifted" people.

Admiral Kirk 118, did you ever post that formula?

I am still working on working the bugs out of it but i have it working to an almost accurate degree the only trouble I'm having is with calculating a rate of growth for Power of Attack so I can figure out what it is to calculate the damage accuratly.

With the equation the stat ATT= Strength + ATK

Base Damage = ATT+[ (ATT+lvl/32)(ATT+lvl/32)]

Damage = (Base Damage)(Power of Attack)

With enemy defense you have to use this equation

DefNum = [Def * (100 + Defense Mod) / 100]

Damage = [Damage * (512 - DefNum) / 512]

All solutions round down, and if the solution is over 9999 it rounds down to 9999.

The only problem I am having with this is calculating Power of Attack right now I can get an ideal number for it but I need to find the rate of growth for this stat to get an accurate answer.

I was able to find this info at www.gamefaqs.com

Hey, I think I know why Prak thinks the story sucks so much. He has admitted to only playing through the game once in one of the other threads so most likely he missed certain details most people miss their first time throught that make the story make sense and allow you to see how good it is, so, maybe Prak and anyone else who has only played it once and are saying the story sucked should go back and play it again to see if there are any details they missed which piece the story together and allow you to understand it and see how good it is before saying it sucks.

Oops, sorry for double posting, I don't know why it did it, usually when I add something like this it just adds it to my previous post. I wonder why it didnt do it thise time?

Missed details? Not likely.

And besides, if certain details that were vital to understanding the plot were buried, then that's a pretty good argument for the game being utter shit.

Yeah, I played through the game alot, but the second and third times I didn't even pay attention to the story cause it was that simple and I knew it pretty well.

I haven't played FF7 in maybe 6 years now. Maybe I will pick it up and give a run through again. I see myself doing this every once in a while. I just finished FF9 again after like 5 years. It felt soooo good. You guys don't know how good it feels to playthat game again. Maybe I can feel that way if I play FF7 agian. I knwo i forgot ALL the details. I can't remember anything from the trivia and quote quizees here.

Well you know there are details that make the story make sense and make it become more interesting and better that are easy to miss the first time through. Prak and other people have shown that they missed these details when I defended the storyline a while back and they said that I was wrong and that never happened when they did and you just had to catch the details to piece it together.

Prak and other people have shown that they missed these details when I defended the storyline a while back and they said that I was wrong and that never happened when they did and you just had to catch the details to piece it together.

what...the...fuck...
That is complete bullshit, so I'd love to see you try to back that up. Actually, I'd love for you to stay banned even more.

Well you know there are details that make the story make sense and make it become more interesting and better that are easy to miss the first time through. Prak and other people have shown that they missed these details when I defended the storyline a while back and they said that I was wrong and that never happened when they did and you just had to catch the details to piece it together.

if u mis sometin da first dime u play den ur stupid n u loose da debate lolz looser

if u mis sometin da first dime u play den ur stupid n u loose da debate lolz looser

I just wanted to make sure that no one misses this because I think you all need a good laugh right now.

Ok, guys. You are being warned.

I'm back.

*puts popcorn in microwave*

Look this is a sort of request to acpo or Neo Xzhan. Will you please lock this thread and the other thread on why FFVII ISNT a good game. All it is turning into is just a few people arguing teh same points over and over or stupid people that just post to say FFVII ROCKS CUZ I SAY SO AND SEPH IS DA BEST EVA!!!

Popcorn's ready, Gast, so just sit with us and enjoy the show. Come on, this thread is hilarious.

Closing this thread would be pointless because a similar thread would crop up eventually.

Yeah, this thread cropped up WHILE the other thread was still running.

Closing this thread would be pointless because a similar thread would crop up eventually.
And the fact that having only two threads about this topic instead of 5 or 6 a month is a lot better.

well, meh :P

Don't you feel cool now ;)

Ok now that I'm back I would like to comment on what prak and das fruit said about the storyline.

Ok a storyline does not suck becuase they have hidden details that reveal events in the plot that are not always obvious the first time through it. Infact there are many great movies, games, and books that use this technique and for most people who say these stories suck most likely it is becuase they missed these details the first time like most people and are too stubborn to go back throught the story to catch the details because they are afraid they might catch them and thus like the story and have nothing left to bitch about. there are so many great movies and books out there that use this technique of obscure details it would take forever for me to name them so i will just bring up the one known by most people and that is "The Sixth Sense". in the end we find out that the main character is actually a ghost who was shot and we didnt see it coming at all, yet when we see the movie a second time we see all these clever details that show us that he is infact a ghost, such as the red doorknob, he never talks to anyone but the kid, and so on and so forth, yet is everyone going around say that it was a bad movie for this technique? NO they are not. So if you are gonna say that FF7's storyline sucks for this reason then you might as well say that all the other storys that use this technique suck.

Persistent little bastard, ain't he?

Ok now that I'm back I would like to comment on what prak and das fruit said about the storyline.

Ok a storyline does not suck becuase they have hidden details that reveal events in the plot that are not always obvious the first time through it. Infact there are many great movies, games, and books that use this technique and for most people who say these stories suck most likely it is becuase they missed these details the first time like most people and are too stubborn to go back throught the story to catch the details because they are afraid they might catch them and thus like the story and have nothing left to bitch about. there are so many great movies and books out there that use this technique of obscure details it would take forever for me to name them so i will just bring up the one known by most people and that is "The Sixth Sense". in the end we find out that the main character is actually a ghost who was shot and we didnt see it coming at all, yet when we see the movie a second time we see all these clever details that show us that he is infact a ghost, such as the red doorknob, he never talks to anyone but the kid, and so on and so forth, yet is everyone going around say that it was a bad movie for this technique? NO they are not. So if you are gonna say that FF7's storyline sucks for this reason then you might as well say that all the other storys that use this technique suck.

If/when you become unbanned, please give us some examples as to what "details" you're talking about, because I've played through the game four times and I have no clue what you're talking about.

Well I dont know what that Star Trek/DDR guy has for his examples but being a fan of FF7 myself I can think of a few such as in the begining Barret says to Cloud something along the lines of "How do I know you wont turn on us" or something like that foreshadowing that cloud will turn on the party and do something horrible at some point which can easily be missed, When Aeris says "my materia is good for absolutly nothing...its special" foreshadowing that this item will be of some important use at some point in the game and you later find that it is the white materia, there are a lot more of these as well but my mind is going blank from a headache so ill just leave it at that.

Hi i have a question. My ff7 game (not demo) is not working it just turns black the screen then nothing. I downloaded this game will you help me out????

Why did you post here?! Go create a new thread or something.

Hi i have a question. My ff7 game (not demo) is not working it just turns black the screen then nothing. I downloaded this game will you help me out????

You get no sympathy (much less assistance) from me. As bad as I think the game is, you should still pay for it.

I agree i do not condone downloading especially of final fantasys that are as old as ff7 you can get a decent copy for about �7 so i think that is $10.

Are there really 2 threads to debate the exact same thing? How pointless...why don't they just post in the other?

you guys are RETARDED.

the "FFVII is NOT a good game" thread is THE EXACT REPLICA OF THIS THREAD.
you are debating about the SAME thing. on two different threads. i know that the titles are different, but come on!

Actually, the other thread was made first, so that would make this thread the replica.

Are there really 2 threads to debate the exact same thing? How pointless...why don't they just post in the other?

It is pointless, I agree. However, if one were to be deleted, many more would crop up.

It is pointless, I agree. However, if one were to be deleted, many more would crop up.

haha yeah

haha yeah
Good job there buddy. This thread was almost two weeks old and on the verge of being dead, but once again someone has to revive it, thus sparking more arguments.

Actually, the other thread was made first, so that would make this thread the replica.

That's because it was your thread :-P


This thread was almost two weeks old and on the verge of being dead, but once again someone has to revive it, thus sparking more arguments.


Are there really 2 threads to debate the exact same thing? How pointless...why don't they just post in the other?

My point entirely. I requested that one of them should be deleted about 8 pages ago.

My point entirely. I requested that one of them should be deleted about 8 pages ago.
No, a thread doesn't get deleted unless it is a very rare occasion. And it would be even more trouble to do so on a thread that is this massive. But even if it wasn't a big deal erasing threads, then that would basically make you sound hypocritical.

I'll just make a little proclamation, then: if anyone wishes to keep this thread alive, post something with relevant points and facts to support them. This thread has no purpose but as a debate thread, and saying "you can't accept ______" has NO place in a debate. If you don't like debating, then don't post here ^_^ Have a nice day!

That's because it was your thread :-P

Check the dates the threads were started, smart guy.

I Think It Is An Excellent Game With All THe Story Lines, The Materia System The Limit Breaks, I Think It Is A Superb Game And I Still Play It The Only Thing That Is Bad About It Is THat You Cannot Go Into Your Menu And See What You Still Need To Do !!!!!, But Apart From That, Is Is A Great Game

Too Many Capital Letters! Arrgh Going Blind!!!11

Oh yay. The thread's been brought back from near-extinction once more by an idiot fanboy who didn't even bother to read it.

Well you can't blame him. I mean, reading 39 pages of people yelling and swearing at eachother? One could go crazy from less.

Im telling u Dark ur saying the right thing this thread is bullshit we should get back to the topic.

Oh yay. The thread's been brought back from near-extinction once more by an idiot fanboy who didn't even bother to read it.

And who likes to use capital letters for each word.