The Dimensioner
06-18-2012, 04:00 PM
Despite the non-existent popularity of my Inception Resources Thread, I thought it would be a good idea to do a similar thing for Transformers. We all know there is, without a doubt, a plethora of releases for the score of Transformers 1. In this thread you will find links to all of them (at least, all of the ones that I can find through the Shrine's search feature).

Transformers

Thread 64511: Posted by bi0h4zard on 2 April 2009
This is the oldest thread I can find but the OP has deleted the first post. I must assume this is the first occurrence of unreleased music for Transformers 1, although I can correct it if someone can prove me wrong. Later on in this list, though, you'll find another 60-track upload, which I might assume is nearly if not totally identical to this one. (60 tracks, unknown run time, unknown quality)

Thread 66156: Posted by Zoran on 29 May 2009
At long last, I finally found the All-Spark Edition. You want to know why it was so hard to find? It's in the VGM downloads section! From what I've learned, the creation of the "All-Spark Edition" can be credited to darth2602, perhaps better known as D A R T H. Like his Alternate edit of RotF (listed below), cues are combined in a manner that doesn't quite match up with how they are arranged in the film. (50 tracks, 233 minutes, VBR)

Thread 67806: Posted by Jack the Ripper on 21 July 2009
Next up is a 50 track version. This one has a radically different track list from most of the rest listed here, but the music is still the same. It could have something to do with the bootleg being found in Germany, as the OP states. Where did the other ten tracks go, you ask? As you will see below, the longer releases included unused tracks as well as supposed demo tracks. Also, some of the bootlegs on the lower end of the track count don't include tracks from the OST. (50 tracks, unknown run time, unknown quality)

Thread 73946: Posted by MasterZPrime on 10 February 2010
This is the behemoth release, and possibly the only one the most hardcore of fans should try to obtain. It has all of the music of the shorter bootlegs, plus a fantastic assortment of unused tracks, alternates, and even demo tracks (in some places, it is debated if some of this music is really even Transformers or if it is just generic Media Ventures works). I'll be honest: this is actually the thread that convinced me to become a member of this forum (or, that's what my memories tell me). (72 tracks, 158 minutes, 320kbps mp3)

Thread 77863: Posted by MasterZPrime on 23 July 2010
A custom iteration of MasterZPrime, the contributor who gave us the 72-track version. I don't think I have this version anymore, so I can't remember what all it included; certainly it had all the material of the 72-track version, plus some remixes, music from the video game (?)...Perhaps I am thinking of the version they call the All-Spark Edition, listed above (which, as far as I could see, is not available on this site). If the OP or someone else who still has this could clarify what was in it, that would be much appreciated. (unknown track count, unknown run time, unknown quality)

Thread 85614: Posted by _A.T.Omix_ on 3 February 2011
Another 50-track version, but without a track list, so I have no idea whether this is the same as the set posted by Jack the Ripper above. Perks: it's in FLAC, although that might have been under debate. (50 tracks, unknown run time, FLAC)

Thread 91378: Posted by cheesparty67 on 20 June 2011
Like the below entry (remember these entries are ordered chronologically), this is another upload I overlooked somehow and have only found through a requested re-upload. This is the other upload I was talking about which may or may not match bi0hazard's initial share. (60 tracks, unknown run time, unknown quality)

Thread 95739: Posted by codyap09 on 16 September 2011
Somehow I overlooked this share in my previous run-through(s) of stuff available for the first film, and I've only found it through someone requesting a re-upload. Judging by the track list and timing of this post, I am going to assume that this is only a slight variation of MasterZPrime's share. (80 tracks, 175 minutes, 320kbps mp3)

http://forums.ffshrine.org/f92/transformers-recording-sessions-~-320k-steve-jablonsky-96227/: Posted by KaFaraqGatri on 28 September 2011
While it is shorter (in both track count and run time) than MasterZPrime's gigantic upload, this share offers great quality mp3 as well as one or two new tracks and a couple unheard alternate tracks that were not to be found MasterZPrime's share. The edit originated from the Transformers recording sessions as shown off on WarmButterDesign's website (http://www.warmbutter.com/dvds/), so anyone who complains about wanting the "real" recording sessions for Transformers 1 need not look any further than this thread. However, it is noted that this share can hardly be considered to be the full sessions, as there are a number of other unused and alternate cues out there that are not publicly available at this time. (71 tracks, 136 minutes, 320kbps mp3)

Thread 98934: Posted by Stoi on 18 November 2011
...Which brings us to the next share, which is yet another iteration of the original 50-track bootleg. But--what's this?! This one has 52 tracks. I could not say where the two additional tracks came from, but as far as I know, this is the first thread to post the track list that most everybody is familiar with in the case that someone references "that Transformers bootleg score". (52 tracks, unknown run time, 320kbps mp3)

Thread 117871: Posted by scorepranos on 5 July 2012
As if any more music could be released for Transformers 1, this set gets released. At long last, we have the slate numbers for all the original cues. Other features include new alternate versions of previously released cues, and several unused (and therefore unheard) cues. As the title implies, this is only (and hopefully all) of the music written by Steve Jablonsky. At this time, many underscore cues, remixes of existing tracks, and film edits have not, and probably won't, leak. (67 tracks, 110 minutes, 192kbps mp3)

Thread 124341: Posted by scorepranos on 12 December 2012
Same as the above upload by scorepranos, except it is truly lossless and it also includes all the suites from the recording sessions as posted by KaFaraqGatri (I believe these suites were first heard on MasterZPrime's giant upload). (80 tracks, 156 minutes, FLAC)

More information:
At this time, there are still approximately 20 cues missing from this score, despite ALL the above releases. In addition to that, quite a lot of the tracks that have been released are just about any combination of the following, as heard in the film: unused, mixed, remixed, extended, shortened, different orchestration, combined with others cues. No comprehensive edit of the music as it is heard in the film is currently available.

There is not as much music available for the two Transformers sequels. There are a couple edits, though, that range from total DVD rips, to edits that take advantage of music released by additional composers and attempt to put the OSTs is film order. EDIT: the (nearly) complete scores for both Transformers 2 and 3 have surfaced (depending on what your definition of "complete" is).

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

Thread 74633: Posted by bi0h4zard on 7 March 2010
This is just a link to a web rip of the three unreleased RotF tracks that can be found on the website of John Sponsler and Tom Gire (named Magic Box Music), two additional composers who worked on the score. (3 tracks, 9 minutes, 160kbps mp3)

Thread 97238: Posted by macdawson on 21 October 2011
The title pretty much says it all. Macdawson just ripped the DVD audio from the film and put it into tracks, for the people who don't mind SFX--but a couple cues from Transformers 1 were tracked in as well. From what it looks like, CD 2 of this edit was not completed. (CD 1: 35 tracks, 60 minutes, unknown quality)

Thread 98320: Posted by JasonSouron on 11 November 2011
This is just a link to a web rip of the four unreleased RotF tracks that can be found on Lorne Balfe's website. (4 tracks, 12 minutes, 192kbps mp3)

Thread 111169: Posted by darth2602 on 14 March 2012
What is the true meaning of "Alternate" expanded score? I am not entirely sure, nor did I download this edit. It looks like some OST and other unreleased tracks were combined into...suites? I don't really understand the apparent arrangement of the score, and like Mr. Fate pointed out in the thread, this is just what it sounds like: an alternate take on the soundtrack. This includes the unreleased tracks from Magic Box Music and Lorne Balfe, alongside the OST. (19 tracks, unknown run time, unknown quality)

Thread 113463: Posted by jmn77 on 1 May 2012
Judging by the track list, this edit does not feature OST tracks mixed and combined into suites. As the OP states, this is about the first, decent compilation of the all the available material. Tracks are arranged in film order to the best of the OP's ability and some tracks have been renamed. (20 tracks, 59 minutes, unknown quality)

Thread 117872: Posted by scorepranos on 5 July 2012
Another fantastic share by scorepranos (!), the complete score (or recording sessions?) for the second film has appeared. With plenty of alternates and unused cues, this is quite a hefty expansion over anything else that was available before this point...What I'm saying is, you pretty much only need this one, and none of the others (the quality is a little bit on the lower end but still very listenable and tolerable). (102 tracks, 158 minutes, 192kbps mp3)

Thread 124385: Posted by scorepranos on 13 December 2012
Same as the above upload by scorepranos, except it is truly lossless and it also includes all the suites that were listed on the hans-zimmer.com page for these sessions. (110 tracks, 189 minutes, FLAC)

More information: the sessions sound quite different from the music as it is heard in the film (much like the first film). A lot of the music has been cut out, unused, mixed differently, and/or swapped for other music. For instance, the version of "1m05a Pt2 Fallen Shall Rise Again" heard on the sessions has been replaced by a special mix of several other cues centered on the Fallen's theme.

On scorepranos' particular set of these sessions, "3m45a Fun with Tazers" is a corrupt file and both "3m46 Model Airplanes" and "3m49 Jetfire Rambles the Plot" suffer from the sounds-like-I'm-listening-to-this-through-a-metal-pipe condition.

Transformers: Dark of the Moon

Thread 96421: Posted by macdawson on 21 October 2011
Much like macdawson's rip of RotF, this one is out there for the listeners who don't mind having SFX mixed in with their music. No track list is given here, so I don't have very much more information on this edit. Additional info from the OP would be appreciated. (unknown track count, unknown run time, unknown quality)

Thread 110664: Posted by GauthierG on 1 March 2012
Next up, we have a radically new form of sharing DVD rips (which I am apparently the only who takes offense to). In this strategy, the OP created the thread before he had done a lick of work, and then a couple weeks later he began posting the first versions of his edits on YouTube. Every couple of days, a new track would get posted. In this sense, the edit was absolutely a work-in-progress throughout the duration of the thread's activity, which makes determining the total number of tracks available, run time, and quality all impossible to determine.

Thread 111092: Posted by darth2602 on 3 March 2012
Unlike darth2602's "alternate" edit of RotF, this one is more sensibly arranged, rearranging the OST a bit, and including the additional tracks from both Pieter A Schlosser's website, as well as Clay Duncan's site, plus a couple tracks recorded (?) from the DVD/Blu-Ray. It also featured a couple reappearances/remixes of material from the first two films. (31 tracks, 90 minutes, 320kbps mp3)

Thread 111920: Posted by GauthierG on 24 March 2012
And this brings us to one of the strangest edits I've heard in my life. The creator of this edit won't give up his secrets for nothing, but several tracks from this edit are absolutely 100% SFX-free; however several of them cut in or cut off, and their quality is questionable. Other material in this edit includes OST tracks; tracks that originated from a two-channel source, and thereby have artifacts of voices and are in mono; tracks ripped from someone's YouTube channel; and other oddities thrown in. Note: this edit uses the track titles as presented officially from the recording session cue sheets, which could cause misdirection and disappointment to those in the future who seek out the true recording sessions. In my archives, I have three revisions of this edit.
(V.1: 35 tracks, 90 minutes, 320kbps mp3)--(V.2: 36 tracks, 78 minutes, M4A)--(V.3: 37 tracks, 79 minutes, M4A)

Thread 117873: Posted by scorepranos on 5 July 2012
With already having uploaded glorious expansions of the first two films, scorepranos went ahead and posted the complete score to the third film in the Transformers trilogy (what will we refer to it as when the fourth film comes out?). Like RotF, this is pretty much the only edit you need to have in your collection considering, it is the complete score, all tracks come in full stereo, and none of the tracks are incomplete, are of questionable quality, and/or cut in/out. The only thing lacking here is an assumed plethora of alternate takes/unused cues, but you won't see this collector complaining. (75 tracks, 139 minutes, 192kbps mp3)

Thread 118166: Posted by GauthierG on 14 July 2012
Not to be outdone by the great scorepranos, GauthierG is back to upload his third edit of DotM (technically, it's the fifth, if the different versions of his second edit are all to be counted). Here you can find, I guess, some film edit versions of cues, as well as some of Gauthier's own works.....? I need someone to explain this one to me. How did it come out as 320kbps when the source was, guaranteed, 192kbps? (83 tracks, unknown run time, questionable quality)

Thread 120834: Posted by jmn77 on 19 September 2012
Another fairly straight forward edit from jmn77, in this set you will find music from the complete scores of both TF3 and a small bit of TF2 (as shared by scorepranos earlier this year), mixed together to line up with how the score is actually presented in the film. At this time, as the thread title implies, this is only a sample of jmn77's edit, which I can assume combines cues where necessary, and tries to mix stuff to resemble the film as closely as possible without getting "completely anal" about how closely the edits match the film (because we all know just about every film has had some kind of editing in post-production and the only way to obtain some of that material would be to use a DVD rip which could be a mess if we're talking about a Transformers film). (Preview: 10 tracks, unknown run time, transcoded ALAC)

Thread 124386: Posted by scorepranos on 13 December 2012
Same as the above upload by scorepranos, except it is truly lossless and it also includes all the suites that were listed on the hans-zimmer.com page for these sessions. (88 tracks, 175 minutes, FLAC)

Thread 128606: Posted by A Fire Will Rise on 4 March 2013
Boy, that happened fast. And we even skipped over Revenge of the Fallen. What am I talking about? I will kindly direct to The Department of Redundancy Department for further information. In case you missed out on scorepranos' original upload of the TF3 sessions in 192kbps mp3 that were missing the suites AND you missed out scorepranos' next upload of the TF3 sessions in FLAC and including the suites, you can now go here to check out a FLAC-to-256kbps-mp3 transcode of the sessions which include the suites. You know, because apparently, converting audio is a highly complicated task for some individuals. (82 tracks (don't know what 6 are missing), you can figure the run time, 256kbps mp3)

Miscellaneous/Collections/Re-uploads

Thread 125022: Posted by vje11 on 27 December 2012
Re-uploads of the various sets of Transformers music that have been posted here over the years. I guess this is your best bet to check for still-live links. Also, it's all in one place.

Thread 128499: Posted by Lockdown on 3 March 2013
I don't know where else to put this one, except for at the bottom of the list. This is just a reupload/repost of all three of scorepranos' shares. If you check the run times and quality under those entries and you can use a simple calculator, you can find this set's information.


As with my Inception resources thread, if anyone can provide additional information about anything in this list, that would be terrific!

Drunkenmunkey
06-18-2012, 06:52 PM
Looks good. Anyone know where guathier is by the way?

scorepranos
06-18-2012, 08:52 PM
One thing about the Warm Butter DVD is I would not even call it the "sessions". It only contained a few alternates and maybe 2 unused cues. But the real sessions contains lots more alternates and unused cues.
Like Stumble Bumble contains a chorus on the 2nd half of the track unlike in previous versions of the score.

You can take a listen to a few cues here.

Transformers Cues (http://snack.to/auk90ucz)

DAKoftheOTA
06-18-2012, 09:05 PM
This thread is LONG overdue. It should help sort some shit out, and I'm glad it's here



One thing about the Warm Butter DVD is I would not even call it the "sessions". It only contained a few alternates and maybe 2 unused cues. But the real sessions contains lots more alternates and unused cues.
Like Stumble Bumble contains a chorus on the 2nd half of the track unlike in previous versions of the score.

You can take a listen to a few cues here.

Transformers Cues (http://snack.to/auk90ucz)

Scorepranos, thank you so much for that. As a die-hard Transformers fan, I really appreciate it :D
Rep from me!!!

The Dimensioner
06-19-2012, 12:01 AM
One thing about the Warm Butter DVD is I would not even call it the "sessions". It only contained a few alternates and maybe 2 unused cues. But the real sessions contains lots more alternates and unused cues.
Like Stumble Bumble contains a chorus on the 2nd half of the track unlike in previous versions of the score.

You can take a listen to a few cues here.

Transformers Cues (http://snack.to/auk90ucz)

Thanks for the heads-up; I was just going with the information I knew--which was that that material was designated as the Recording Sessions. So was the WBDVD sort of just like a demo compilation of everything? As we've already heard, there are quite a bit of unused demos and such--are there many more that our virgin ears have yet to hear? And what of the cues from the movie that have yet to be released, such as the version of Optimus without flutes or the variation of "Decepticons" sans vocals?

scorepranos
06-19-2012, 12:46 AM
Those cues are still missing. The sessions is pretty much all of the cues Jablonsky worked on. A lot of the film version cues that's been missing is cues written by additional composers.
Pretty much the only ones who will have access to those cues are the additional composers, the studio and the music editors. Rarely does the main composer have the cues by the
additional composers. And vise versa.

DAKoftheOTA
06-19-2012, 02:34 AM
Those cues are still missing. The sessions is pretty much all of the cues Jablonsky worked on. A lot of the film version cues that's been missing is cues written by additional composers.
Pretty much the only ones who will have access to those cues are the additional composers, the studio and the music editors. Rarely does the main composer have the cues by the
additional composers. And vise versa.

That's interesting, I never knew that. So then are you saying that the (as Dimensioner put it) "version of 'Optimus' without flutes or the variation of 'Decepticons' sans vocals" are not by Steve Jablonsky, but possibly Clay Duncan, Lorne Balfe or Trevor Morris?

scorepranos
06-19-2012, 04:39 AM
Yeah but I'm not sure who did what on those cues.

Everan Shepard
06-19-2012, 04:44 AM
Quite interesting scorepranos.

Also, I doubt that someone could rip those extra tracks up there? Never heard them before in my life!

The last one I've heard it, but no chorus. Really loving them!

jmn77
06-19-2012, 10:45 AM
The film version of "Optimus" was not composed by someone else. That doesn't even make sense! It's the same compisition as what is on the OST, which was composed by Steve Jablonsky. However it IS mixed differently in the film (no flute, for example). But that doesn't make it a different composition, merely an alternate mix.


2 April 2009... I must assume this is the first occurrence of unreleased music for Transformers 1, although I can correct it if someone can prove me wrong.
Well, I can't prove it nor am I out to... but I know for a fact that I had obtained my first copy of the promo score (the 52 track deal-ee-o) by Christmas of 2007 or early 2008. Certainly wasn't as late as April 2009.

It matters little at this point, but anyway...

scorepranos
06-19-2012, 12:36 PM
Um I'm pretty positive in the film Optimus is almost completely different then what has been released. If you're talking about the scene in the desert,
the film version uses a orchestral version of the choral part from Arrival to Earth as it's main theme in that cue. Only towards the end does it start to match
the version that we have.

The Dimensioner
06-19-2012, 01:21 PM
Quite interesting scorepranos.

Also, I doubt that someone could rip those extra tracks up there? Never heard them before in my life!

The last one I've heard it, but no chorus. Really loving them!

Someone could rip them with the DownloadHelper add-on for Firefox, but what would be even better is if scorepranos could just upload them himself in whatever best quality he has them available. It also wouldn't hurt if he posted more of the alternate and unused stuff. I mean, I thought at this point, we could never ever obtain more Transformers music, but I see that we were wrong.


Um I'm pretty positive in the film Optimus is almost completely different then what has been released. If you're talking about the scene in the desert,
the film version uses a orchestral version of the choral part from Arrival to Earth as it's main theme in that cue. Only towards the end does it start to match
the version that we have.

I can support this statement. The film version of Optimus makes two appearances in the film: the first is when Sam is talking with Bumblebee at nighttime--I named that cue "Visitors From Heaven" after one of the lines that Bumblebee pulled from somewhere. It's only about the first 1:18 of the OST track, but the intro is missing one bar (if I'm using that term properly). Also, I think the intro features a heartbeat in the film, but I can't tell since it goes in rhythm as (I think) Bumblebee walks around.

The second appearance is the one scorepranos described. I've named this track "Prepare for Attack/Hoover Dam" and the first half of it includes an extension of the Decepticons track, followed by "Hoover Dam" from the promo score, and then Optimus. This time, an additional bar has been added, and when comparing this version against the first version (after accounting for the bar difference), they don't quite line up. Again, the 1:18 of the OST track is used, but then the next 21 seconds or so of music after that sounds much closer to the OST. The track is then rounded off with an added fade-out of Optimus which blends into the short cue "Frenzy Falls".

@jmn77: if you can provide a link to a thread older than April 2, 2009, that's great, but if you're just referring to when you acquired the music, yourself, that doesn't matter so much.

musicostguy
06-19-2012, 02:44 PM
is anyone gonna rip the trasformers cues i really like he alt.bumble stumble

DAKoftheOTA
06-20-2012, 01:49 AM
I can support this statement. The film version of Optimus makes two appearances in the film: the first is when Sam is talking with Bumblebee at nighttime--I named that cue "Visitors From Heaven" after one of the lines that Bumblebee pulled from somewhere. It's only about the first 1:18 of the OST track, but the intro is missing one bar (if I'm using that term properly). Also, I think the intro features a heartbeat in the film, but I can't tell since it goes in rhythm as (I think) Bumblebee walks around.

As can I. The version on the OST features that intrusive and distracting flute (once in a while I don't mind it), while the film version is so much better sounding without the flute. Now I've never heard a heartbeat in the film, I think it's prob just Bumblebee walking towards Sam.

Amanda
06-20-2012, 02:52 AM
is anyone gonna rip the trasformers cues i really like he alt.bumble stumble


Yep, I ripped 'em fine. But, as a heads up, the firefox downloader will NOT grab them. I had to use a program that records from the speakers dealy.

The Dimensioner
06-20-2012, 02:55 AM
Huh, I used the DownloadHelper add-on for Firefox and it...worked.

musicostguy
06-20-2012, 03:00 AM
Can you post the link to them please I would really like those three to the collection

Amanda
06-20-2012, 03:00 AM
Well, either way, here;

SCOREPRANOS TRANSFORMS.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/?g3zb67ho6c89qrk)
no pass

The little symbol on the toolbar was active, but when i tried to save, it wanted to download some other program instead, so I went this other route.

musicostguy
06-20-2012, 03:28 AM
thank you very much

DingDongSenior
06-20-2012, 06:38 AM
And still, after all this time, only Transformers [2007] has a true bootleg score.

the gus bus
06-27-2012, 07:59 PM
Thank you scorepranos for those uploads, I had NO IDEA there were any more pieces of unreleased music. And thanks dimensioner for starting this thread.

The Dimensioner
07-15-2012, 02:27 AM
Main post updated to include links to scorepranos' recent shares. And:


I've used the word "plethora" twice in the main post. FYI: I learned that word from The Three Amigos.

The Dimensioner
08-16-2012, 02:45 AM
A few more entries have been added. A couple descriptions were updated. More details were added at the end.

jmn77
08-16-2012, 03:11 AM
Um I'm pretty positive in the film Optimus is almost completely different then what has been released. If you're talking about the scene in the desert,
the film version uses a orchestral version of the choral part from Arrival to Earth as it's main theme in that cue. Only towards the end does it start to match
the version that we have.



I can support this statement. The film version of Optimus makes two appearances in the film: the first is when Sam is talking with Bumblebee at nighttime--I named that cue "Visitors From Heaven" after one of the lines that Bumblebee pulled from somewhere. It's only about the first 1:18 of the OST track, but the intro is missing one bar (if I'm using that term properly). Also, I think the intro features a heartbeat in the film, but I can't tell since it goes in rhythm as (I think) Bumblebee walks around.

The second appearance is the one scorepranos described. I've named this track "Prepare for Attack/Hoover Dam" and the first half of it includes an extension of the Decepticons track, followed by "Hoover Dam" from the promo score, and then Optimus. This time, an additional bar has been added, and when comparing this version against the first version (after accounting for the bar difference), they don't quite line up. Again, the 1:18 of the OST track is used, but then the next 21 seconds or so of music after that sounds much closer to the OST. The track is then rounded off with an added fade-out of Optimus which blends into the short cue "Frenzy Falls".
Yep, you guys are spot on... After recent review I realize the cue in the film is much more different than I intially remembered when posting above.


@jmn77: if you can provide a link to a thread older than April 2, 2009, that's great, but if you're just referring to when you acquired the music, yourself, that doesn't matter so much.
Nah, not even gonna bother with trying to provide a link (or proof of) that old! As you and I have both said already, it doesn't matter at all... was just trying to be informative, not definitive.

p.s. Thanks Dimensioner for your hard and thorough work on this project :)

The Dimensioner
12-14-2012, 01:31 AM
Updated to include links to all of scorepranos' lossless (and slightly longer) uploads for all three films. (At the time of this post all links are inactive.)

T-Mann036
12-14-2012, 06:52 PM
Thanks Dimensioner.

vje11
12-27-2012, 11:11 PM
EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Dimensioner
12-27-2012, 11:59 PM
WTF are you doing? Hey, while we're all here, why don't I add all of your hyperlinks to my main posts so people don't even have to give thanks to the original uploader? Then they just say thanks to me (and maybe you, depending on whether I decide to give you credit).

BTW, who is Scoremasters?

The Dimensioner
03-05-2013, 02:37 AM
Updated with three new entries.

DAKoftheOTA
03-05-2013, 02:39 AM
Updated with three new entries.

This is just getting fucking ridiculous