FF10 and downwards were the best but ff12 and the new ff12 for the ds and dirge of cerberus were not as good
they changed the battle style which i think ruins the game
any opinions reply to this thread

by the way the trailers show it , ff13 doesnt look very turn battle like at all

the turn based fighting was best by far

You know, some people think the new battle system rokz!!! And I like FFXII, no matter how long it takes to finish!

well everyone has there opinion
its not as if i dont like the new battle system anyway its just that the old one was better

I think the series has been going downhill since it made the jump to 3D in FF VII...

Although I've liked a few games in the series since, nothing seems to compare to the old top down 2D games.

I think its all a matter of opinon xP alot of people thought FF12 was a "true" FF game because the typical sappy love story was replaced with a plain old stupid story line...while alot of people missed the sappy love stories (me) and found the game, aside from the battle system and graphics..to be horrible.

FF10 and downwards were the best but ff12 and the new ff12 for the ds and dirge of cerberus were not as good
they changed the battle style which i think ruins the game
any opinions reply to this thread
Dirge of Cerberus is not an FF. FF12 is regarded as the best FF 10 years, whether I agree or not is hearsay. Also how can an improvement ruin a game? if it wasn't for improvements we'd all be playing with sprites on a 2d disproportional canvas.

by the way the trailers show it , ff13 doesnt look very turn battle like at all

the turn based fighting was best by far
You've obviously never played an Active Style Rpg, buy or rent Star Ocean 3 or any other game in it's genre. The battles are much more heated and the bosses are way more fierce.

FF10 and downwards were the best but ff12 and the new ff12 for the ds and dirge of cerberus were not as good
Fuck off. Perhaps post something worthwhile to support your opinion? y/n?

I think the series has been going downhill since FF VII.

So now you are saying FF VII is a bad game?

I think the series has been going downhill since it made the jump to 3D in FF VII...
Don't know how I missed this moron; care to justify? Just as fucking moronic as the thread-maker's statement. So FFX was hugely worse than VII was it? Considering it's been 'downhill since VII'. :rolleyes:

So now you are saying FF VII is a bad game?

Not that it's bad, but that it's not all everyone makes it out to be. It sure as hell doesn't deserve a million spin-off games like it has. Most people love it so much only because it was the first one they played, I just don't like it because I didn't think it was as good as it's predecessors.

Care to answer the real problem in your posts of this thread?

I believe that the jump from turned based to real time battles was a step to the right direction, but I consider the license board system a lazy made one.
I hate to fucking move almost randomly around the board + I don't like the idea of having to get the right licenses on the board to be able to use my weapons. I just find it stupid.

I believe that the jump from turned based to real time battles was a step to the right direction
qft


but I consider the license board system a lazy made one.
qf partial t

FF10 and downwards were the best but ff12 and the new ff12 for the ds and dirge of cerberus were not as good
they changed the battle style which i think ruins the game
any opinions reply to this thread

I'll make that decision when they release FFXXI: "The misadventures of geriatric Cloud & Tifa." Until then I maintain my silence on the matter.

Whilst I do not agree with the reasons given I do not think that the argument is without merit; not that I think the games are getting worse it's just that the perception is they are. I primarily put this down to us the fans.

I think the main reason the games seem to be getting worse is because the fans (and I am including myself in this) all have our favourite entries in the series and we all could probably describe our optimal Final Fantasy game so when a new title comes out and it doesn't match the game in our heads then suddenly the series is on the slide despite the fact that the game we are comparing it to might not actually exist (I know they certainly have not made the Final Fantasy VI/IX team up Namco X Capcom style that is mine).

Also the outcry from a fairly large proportion of the fans whenever even the slightest thing is changed must be very confusing for Square-Enix, you only need to look at the earlier posts in this thread or the entire sections on this and many other forums decrying X-2, the magic system in VIII or the combat in XII as the end of civilisation as we know it . The message this must send to Square-Enix is we want new exciting and innovative games just so long as they do not change anything from the previous games and you only need to look at the demand for a FFVII remake for evidence of this; we have potentially unlimited options for gameplay on the PS3 but what do we apparently want, an exact re-make of a ten year old game just with better graphics hardly an incentive for the company to push themselves is it.

So no I do not think the games are getting worse, personally I think XII and X-2 were some of the more fun and interesting entries in the series since the SNES days, but if they are it is nobodies fault but our own.

ok i knwo ti seems ff is loseing its egde by changeing things uo but it has to be done msot peoples biggest compaints about the old games were the trun base system the only thing i realy disliekd about 12 was the point san dhunt system i like the random battles giveing me gill but they stoped it and then that points to unlock everything took forever .......... realy annying even to unlock summons ugh that was painfull i haveint played 12 2 yet becuas ei am to broke to egt a new ds and a game ( my room mates desided to play hocky with my ds needless to say i am now liveing alone ^_^ ) anyway things hcnage oevr time some of it sucks some of it is good the mega man series is a good point slowly over time it became not worth buying but renting i beat allmsot eveyr mega man in less than 5 hours anymore expect the card battle system ones anyay games do ahve to chnage over time it sucks it blows and to true fans but some tiem sit works better for the game play i haveint played 13 and dont know much about it so i cant say on it and yes doc sucked .......... it sucked badly but thats becuase they tryed to rip off devil may cry

i loved FF9~ and anything above that was just... okay. i guess FFX was exciting just because it was new to the ps2 and the graphics were 'amazing' and it was the first time in FF history they had voice acting.
FF12 was good because it was different. and i must admit i'm really looking forward to FF13+FF Versus C:

final fantasy has always had some sort of allure but since VII things just havent been the same
in VIII and on the characters became characters from a trendy ass saturday morning anime

they have spent so long trying to reinvent the rpg that they have lost sight of what the rpg really is

i guess the bulk of rpg nerds has turned into a bunch of girly yoai loving queers
and who can blame sqauresoft for cattering to that crowd
theres more of them than us
(real game fans)
ones that see past amazing graphics
and find a piece of shit rapped in shiny rapping paper

I actually liked FFXII better than X. While FFXII may not have the same summons as the previous FFs, but what I love about XII better than X is that I like the battle system much better and the overall gameplay isn't as sickengly too easy as X.

As for XIII, I'm not even gonna go there with criticizing. You don't know how good or bad it is until it comes out :p. I'm just gonna wait until it comes out to decide whether I like it or not :p.

im not a big fan of XII at all
it may be better than X but thats not saying much
i guess i just cant see the reason they would mess with a formula that worked so well

so many are trying to hard to give everything a new spin
that final fantasay is unrecognizable

as far as XIII
cant say much
but im not gettin my hopes up

im not a big fan of XII at all
it may be better than X but thats not saying much
i guess i just cant see the reason they would mess with a formula that worked so well

so many are trying to hard to give everything a new spin
that final fantasay is unrecognizable

as far as XIII
cant say much
but im not gettin my hopes up

You're preaching to the choir on that one. I value the classics (i.e. I-VI) more than any other FF title, but the battle systems, licensing/leveling up, world maps are all going to change from here on out. Whether that means they will be moving up or down depends on whether you like it or not.

not exactly a popular opinion

speaking of world maps
what the fuck?
who thought it would be great to take them out of games
the world map was the glue that held most rpgs together

i cant stand this new age school of rpgs

The world Map problem will get resolved at some point in the future. Starting with FFX, S-E decided to keep all of the graphics in proportions. But the problem with that is that the PS2 cannot possibly put a wolrd map on screen and keep the graphic quality of FFX or XII. So they had to come up with this corridor compromise that makes the games feel like you're always in a dungeon.


But with the advent of technology and CPU power, at one point in time, the graphics will be good enough that it will be possible for the devs to make the entire game using a "world map" setup where everything is in proportions and seemless. Streaming the graphics in real time as you wonder from one location to the next, without having to rely on black loading screens.

When will that happen is an other question.

Personally I'm ok with the lack of a world map. I'm upset about the lack of flying a ship like the Ragnarock, I've spent 2 hours flying that ship in FFVIII

I think that every element of Final Fantasy are there in Final Fantasy XII save for the battle system. Changes are so denied by everyone when things come to it. Final Fantasy XII was amazing, and the battle system actually kept my attention, and I loved it.

Final Fantasy will never die.

Also, there was probally just as much debate when the ATB system was first introduced to Final Fantasy, but that is a variation that turned out to be for the better.

The world Map problem will get resolved at some point in the future. Starting with FFX, S-E decided to keep all of the graphics in proportions. But the problem with that is that the PS2 cannot possibly put a wolrd map on screen and keep the graphic quality of FFX or XII. So they had to come up with this corridor compromise that makes the games feel like you're always in a dungeon.


But with the advent of technology and CPU power, at one point in time, the graphics will be good enough that it will be possible for the devs to make the entire game using a "world map" setup where everything is in proportions and seemless. Streaming the graphics in real time as you wonder from one location to the next, without having to rely on black loading screens.

When will that happen is an other question.

i wish they wouldnt make decisions like that
its like spending 50 thousand dollars on a car with no wheels
just spend less and get the whole pakage

i see where your coming from

I can more or less agree that the FF games are beginning to fade. I enjoyed the early FF games as well as those on the PS, but now it just seems like something's missing.

FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX were all great games, IMO. I enjoyed the storyline/characters in each game as well as what the setting/music had to offer. There were flaws, but were all very enjoyable games.

FF Tactics, been a while since I played this one but I loved it. The storyline was straight forward and sometimes it works better that way. As for the battle system, once you had some experience it was fun and challenging.

FFX, the story/characters were good as well as the music, and the graphics blew me away at the time (then again FF's tend to do that). This one didn't hit the spot quite like the others did but overall was a very good game, the last before Square-Enix really started.


FFX-2 - I tried it and just could never get into it. Everything was done top notch, but with any FF game a sequel more or less ruins it.

FF VII Sequels (Movies, Games ect.) - I've said this before and I'll say it again, a basic remake would be okay. But as for everything else, not necessary.

FFXII - I'm thinking of giving this one another run, I just couldn't get into it. But I may give it another try.

FFXIII - We can only hope...

That's the sad part about remakes of video games. There's always alittle change in the remakes of the older games (GBA Final Fantasies, RE Remake etc.) which will never be the same of the older versions. That's my biggest video game pet peeve. The old ones become hard to impossible to get a hold of, but then they get remade. No problem right? Wrong. It will never be the same. So Bus Driver, on the Game Boy Advance remakes of Final Fantasies, they did take out some features or does it just seem that way?

Speaking of which, I happen to be playing Final Fantasy II on Final Fantasy Dawn of Souls (still playing Chrono Trigger, but started FFII way back before starting Chrono Trigger so I'd rather finish what I first started).

That's the sad part about remakes of video games. There's always alittle change in the remakes of the older games (GBA Final Fantasies, RE Remake etc.) which will never be the same of the older versions. That's my biggest video game pet peeve. The old ones become hard to impossible to get a hold of, but then they get remade. No problem right? Wrong. It will never be the same. So Bus Driver, on the Game Boy Advance remakes of Final Fantasies, they did take out some features or does it just seem that way?

Speaking of which, I happen to be playing Final Fantasy II on Final Fantasy Dawn of Souls (still playing Chrono Trigger, but started FFII way back before starting Chrono Trigger so I'd rather finish what I first started).

I feel for you, playing Final Fantasy II.

I really feel for you and I wish you the best of luck.

I feel for you, playing Final Fantasy II.

I really feel for you and I wish you the best of luck.


So I take it you played it?

I think it's actually (well Dawn of Souls version) quite easy as Hell imo ;).

I admit it was alittle harder at first, but it's getting sickengly easy XD. I'm already on Chapter 11 in the game.

Also how can an improvement ruin a game? if it wasn't for improvements we'd all be playing with sprites on a 2d disproportional canvas.

Play Super Mario Bros. 3. There has never, ever, EVER been a game made that is more fun than that one, it can be replayed over and over, and nobody ever complains about the graphics. I really feel like the world was better off when video games chucked realism completely out the window. I'm not saying that innovations in graphics have necessarily ruined video games, but they haven't really made games more fun.

Play Super Mario Bros. 3. There has never, ever, EVER been a game made that is more fun than that one, it can be replayed over and over, and nobody ever complains about the graphics. I really feel like the world was better off when video games chucked realism completely out the window. I'm not saying that innovations in graphics have necessarily ruined video games, but they haven't really made games more fun.

While SMB 3 is indeed among the best games ever made, I have to say that IMO, Super Metroid is the absolute best game ever.

Other than that, I back the rest of your comment.

Ahe hem! I think we were talking about Final Fantasy! I liked FFVII, but the contreversy of " One character must die " kind of threw me off there

While SMB 3 is indeed among the best games ever made, I have to say that IMO, Super Metroid is the absolute best game ever.

Other than that, I back the rest of your comment.

IMO, Secret of Mana trumps it all!

so were agreed?
2d sprites beat 3d models any day of the week

so were agreed?
2d sprites beat 3d models any day of the week

Hey it's like the saying goes, you can't beat the classics ;) :cool:!

So I take it you played it?

I think it's actually (well Dawn of Souls version) quite easy as Hell imo ;).

I admit it was alittle harder at first, but it's getting sickengly easy XD. I'm already on Chapter 11 in the game.

I have played both versions.

And I still think that Pandemonium (In Final Fantasy II) and The World of Darkness (The World of Darkness being from Final Fantasy III) are the most frustrating things in any Final Fantasy game. Save for Wakka, Zell and Selphie's haricuts.

It went from hard, to kinda easy to even damn harder.

But maybe I just didn't get it right.

so were agreed?
2d sprites beat 3d models any day of the week

Agreed!:-D

Ahe hem! I think we were talking about Final Fantasy! I liked FFVII, but the contreversy of " One character must die " kind of threw me off there

Get a damn gameshark and shark the bitch in already, sheesh :-\

Hey it's like the saying goes, you can't beat the classes ;) :cool:!

Uh... you mean classics?

There were a few reasons which made me from a 'FF-Hater' to a 'FF-Lover'.
First off, it was an RPG and a hell of an RPG at that. The game had good longtivity, and the story was nothing I had experianced before. Yes indeed, I did not like FFV very much... but that was when I was stupid and understood nothing -.-

Recently I got ahold of FFVIII which changed my opinion of the series, followed after by FFVII which I thought was going to be better than 8, but my perceptions were wrong. Square-Enix will have there weaknesses on occasion and it also depends on the players perception of the games.

What really interested me was the ATB system, which I'm pretty sure they don't implement in such a classic way as they used to, but what made it different from most turn-based RPGs, it didn't feel turn-based. It also took on story aspects that I had never comprehended in an RPG. Thats a hard feeling to explain, but its the reason I now prefer Final Fantasy to some of my old favourites like Breath Of Fire and Shining Force.

You can have your ideas if you wish that FF is getting worse, personally to me this francise won't last forever.

Well, I think that Square-Enix has a mastery of "Graphking". Plus, you can't beat a lot of the latter games graphicks. Plus, Even in FFXII, a lot of aspects are still there.* like the spells(Cure, Cura, Curaga, ect...), But for some reasons they neglected the classic summons! Plus, the spells are kind of different in FFVII (Regen1, Regen2, Regen3, etc...) Also, they added Technicks in XII, which was helpful. So, change is/was good/bad!

But with the advent of technology and CPU power, at one point in time, the graphics will be good enough that it will be possible for the devs to make the entire game using a "world map" setup where everything is in proportions and seemless. Streaming the graphics in real time as you wonder from one location to the next, without having to rely on black loading screens.

When will that happen is an other question.

I honestly don't care about the loading screens. In fact, without them I'd probably cause permanent damage to my eyes from staring at the screen for so long.

I'm not saying such a feat wouldn't be impressive, but it's hardly something I'm going to lose any sleep over. Frankly, I'd be more worried about a whole host of other things.

I also don't think having graphics in proportion is really that big a deal either, and the compromise of losing the world map was a little disappointing.

As for the general topic, the FF series has had good, bad and mediocre games throughout its history. I'd agree that the last few games weren't as good as say, FFX or FFIX, but in no way do I think the series has gone, or is going, downhill. The series is just in a transitional phase due to various advancements and SE is trying to keep up with those and thus is having to spend less time on the basics of character development and plot design, hence the underdeveloped characters of FFXII, for example. When gaming technology settles down, the series will return to its best, I hope. Also, the less crappy spin-off titles (read: FFVII spin-offs) they do, the better it will be for the main series.

so were agreed?
2d sprites beat 3d models any day of the week

8bit graphics can own a completely CGI made game so long as the plot clicks.

I honestly don't care about the loading screens. In fact, without them I'd probably cause permanent damage to my eyes from staring at the screen for so long.

I'm not saying such a feat wouldn't be impressive, but it's hardly something I'm going to lose any sleep over. Frankly, I'd be more worried about a whole host of other things.

I also don't think having graphics in proportion is really that big a deal either, and the compromise of losing the world map was a little disappointing.



Are you only trying to make a fool of yourself? Or do you just want to contradict me for no reason?

8bit graphics can own a completely CGI made game so long as the plot clicks.

It certainly can... haha.

However,

I don't think Final Fantasy is going downhill. If you have a series with 11 main installments, one MMO, several remakes and spin-off titles it going to have it's good moments and bad moments. I thought FFXII was one of the better games.

The franchise probably isn't going anywhere. With each new game they make they get to implement new characters, gameplay mechanics, and stories so the series doesn't get stale... yet they also have created a universe that's familiar.

It's a winning formula I guess.

Are you only trying to make a fool of yourself? Or do you just want to contradict me for no reason?

I'm agreeing with you Hynad - I was simply adding my approval to what you said. That may not have been clear, since it was 1:14 AM BST when I posted that and I was probably half asleep.

Regardless, you clearly have some sort of issue with me, since you seem to have taken to attacking every random post I make. You were at it before in the LP/Sphere Grid thread and now here.

The only true wtf moment Ive truely seen was FFX-2, I really thought X was better storyline wise and since all the aeons got killed the fun got sucked out.

Regardless, you clearly have some sort of issue with me, since you seem to have taken to attacking every random post I make. You were at it before in the LP/Sphere Grid thread and now here.

That's strange. Because I could have said the exact same thing to you.

That's the sad part about remakes of video games. There's always alittle change in the remakes of the older games (GBA Final Fantasies, RE Remake etc.) which will never be the same of the older versions. That's my biggest video game pet peeve. The old ones become hard to impossible to get a hold of, but then they get remade. No problem right? Wrong. It will never be the same. So Bus Driver, on the Game Boy Advance remakes of Final Fantasies, they did take out some features or does it just seem that way?

Speaking of which, I happen to be playing Final Fantasy II on Final Fantasy Dawn of Souls (still playing Chrono Trigger, but started FFII way back before starting Chrono Trigger so I'd rather finish what I first started).

I never messed with the GBA remakes, so I am not sure. But I can definitley agree with you there and the RE remake is a perfect example.

The RE remake was great, nice to see the environment really come to life and the dialogue get an update. But at the same time, it doesn't have that classic feel to it.

Many ppl have said that Early FF's had a special feel to them! XII lost that feel. We can only hope that XIII restores that feel!

Many ppl have said that Early FF's had a special feel to them! XII lost that feel. We can only hope that XIII restores that feel!

Considering that the people responsible for the character designs and music in the cartridge era games are no longer employed by Squeenix, I highly doubt that will happen.

The only work of Nomura's I've even remotely enjoyed was that of Parasite Eve. Not that it takes a genius to put a pretty blonde chick in a black dress or jeans. Or in nothing at all, in the case of PE2.

people are saying FF games are getting worst becuz its maybe the fact that its the same idea...fight monsters, then boss....all the same fricken thing...

Also taking into consideration that Nobuo Uematsu is basically retired from the videogame world (idk if he actually is) since he is poported to be doing only the main theme for FFXIII, and Takeharu Ishimoto has replaced him in all of the FFVII anthologies (BC & CC).

The only reason Nobuo is doing the main theme is because it's been his for twenty-four years, roffle.

The only reason Nobuo is doing the main theme is because it's been his for twenty-four years, roffle.

YEAH ROTFL LMFAO WTF OMFG W/E


....yeah man that's funny :rolleyes:

I have to disagree on that, sure some aspect of the newer ff game tend to suck but its the gameplay and storyline never disappointed gamers ( except ff12 ). And if you say ff games are getter worst i have one thing to say to you. FF 13 Baby. Now that game should clear any doubt whatsoever =D

Also taking into consideration that Nobuo Uematsu is basically retired from the videogame world (idk if he actually is) since he is poported to be doing only the main theme for FFXIII, and Takeharu Ishimoto has replaced him in all of the FFVII anthologies (BC & CC).

You must be ignorant to the fact that he composed the soundtracks of Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, both for Mistwalker.

No one is Ing'nate

I don't know if FF games are getting progressively worse because i'll always prefer IX over VIII, and XII over X/X-2, although FFVI is my personal favorite.

FFXII sucked a bit but I think revenant wings is pretty good. The only reason I didn't like FFXII was the lack of story and characters but looking at the trailers for XIII and versus XIII things are looking up.

See, I will agree with u there!

I don't think FF games are getting worse. Throughout the series, I always felt some games had better stories than others, while some had better gameplay, battle systems, musics, etc.

Some people think FF XII was a huge let down. I think FF X occupies this place. After X, I was getting a bit nervous as to the quality of future games.

But they fixed it for me in XII and I'm really interested in what we've seen of XIII (not VS XIII) so far. So, to me, the games aren't getting worse in any ways. The quality has been pretty consistent throughout the series.

It may be just how the ppl felt. I mean, after all, it's a matter of opinion!

I was worried about FFXII at first because i didn't know how the system was going to work but it turned out better than i expected. Thats my opinion.

I have this crazy dream that I'll somday see an ff in wich the battle looks like in advent children. I've never played an ff (or a game at all) that I was sattisfied with. I just hawe too big expectations that are immposible to match. But I've never felt such absence of soul, like i do with ff XII, not even in that X-2 Barbie adventure crap.

some people have complained about this thread near the beginning all i mtrying to say is that i think that the turned battle styles(ff1-10) are better than the new ffXII battle style

I think that the battle system for XII was a nice change but i'd prefer the turn-based over it anyday.

I think that the battle system for XII was a nice change but i'd prefer the turn-based over it anyday.
exactly the turn based was 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999x better

It was better because you had full control over all your characters.

You had full control over them, but that control was still limited and slow paced.

After 11 games with basically the same battle system, I think it is past due time to move forward.

It was better because you had full control over all your characters.


You had full control over them, but that control was still limited and slow paced.

Me thinks multiplayer FF is in order =]
Real time battles plus full control over characters with mates = awesome

You had full control over them, but that control was still limited and slow paced.

After 11 games with basically the same battle system, I think it is past due time to move forward.

For once I must agree with Hyned. I was waiting for something like that to happen, but I think they can even make it better than ffXII. like I said before... I want to jump around like Cloud and Kadaj. I want to swing my gunblade like Squall and Seifer. But I guess that's just too much to expect.

FFXII is utter shit. It looks great. It really looks pretty m****fuckin good, but its just a lame copy of Star Wars with no actual characters. Even they are copies. There is no even protagonist on the game. I played it for 10 hours, then sold it. FFXII is only beautiful gore.

*Back in the days with FF7 and FF5*

I'm gonna be lying awake at night wondering how you went from this:

FFXII is utter shit. It looks great. It really looks pretty m****fuckin good, but its just a lame copy of Star Wars with no actual characters. Even they are copies. There is no even protagonist on the game. I played it for 10 hours, then sold it. FFXII is only beautiful gore.

To this:


*Back in the days with FF7 and FF5*

FFXII is utter shit. It looks great. It really looks pretty m****fuckin good, but it just a lame copy of Star Wars with no actual characters. Even they are copies. There is no even protagonist on the game. I played it for 10 hours, then sold it. FFXII is only beautiful gore.

*Back in the days with FF7 and FF5*

He reminds me of ME. I still didn't complete it, so I can't attack or defend it. All I can say is that I hate it's music and like it's battle system, so far.

Anyway, could you please explain how can you judge the game, based on 10 hours of gameplay. I never judge games that I didn't finish on all endings.

P.S. I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious...

He reminds me of ME. I still didn't complete it, so I can't attack or defend it. All I can say is that I hate it's music and like it's battle system, so far.

Anyway, could you please explain how can you judge the game, based on 10 hours of gameplay. I never judge games that I didn't finish on all endings.

P.S. I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious...

If it takes more than 10 hours for a game to develop into something enjoyable, then there's something seriously amiss.

Played game 10 hours and nothing happened. That's why i sold it; it was boring, and I think it's a bad game if hasn't started after 10 hours. Only random fighting so far. OK, it was fun, by the time, but where was the plot?? Still one of the most beautiful games in ps2 videogame history.

The plot of FF12:
A guy, who wants to be a skypirate (Luke Skywalker),
living on a desert city (Tatooine), meets a princes, whos father has been killed (Leia). Skypirate with half-human-half-animal sidekick (Solo + Chewie) get involded. Evil Empire + badass Wizard-whatever-soldier...and so on =)

good point though, I'm already playing for 40 hours and still...
BUT... you see, when I started to play ff7, I didn't enjoy it for first 12 hours. Frankley I thought it sucked. After I finished it, it took place as my best ff ever. So I always finish the game, if for nothing else, then to be able to comment on all of it's bad sides. But I can understand if someone doesn't have nerves for that. It can be really painfull.

Played game 10 hours and nothing happened. That's why i sold it; it was boring, and I think it's a bad game if hasn't started after 10 hours. Only random fighting so far. OK, it was fun, by the time, but where was the plot?? Still one of the most beautiful games in videogame history.

The plot of FF12:
A guy, who wants to be a skypirate (Luke Skywalker),
living on a desert city (Tatooine), meets a princes, whos father has been killed (Leia). Skypirate with half-human-half-animal sidekick (Solo + Chewie) get involded. Evil Empire + badass Wizard-whatever-soldier...and so on =)

But with Harrision Ford and James Earl Jones in the mix, you can conclude that Star Wars > FF12


good point though, I'm already playing for 40 hours and still...
BUT... you see, when I started to play ff7, I didn't enjoy it for first 12 hours. Frankley I thought it sucked. After I finished it, it took place as my best ff ever. So I always finish the game, if for nothing else, then to be able to comment on all of it's bad sides. But I can understand if someone doesn't have nerves for that. It can be really painfull.

Good grief! That's like eating shit at an all-you-can-eat buffet and eventually concluding that it tastes like chocolate.

IMO after ff8 the whole series went down the drain. Well FF9 was alright too i guess, it just seemed alittle to kiddish for me - so I personally am not much of a fan.

Why are they becoming bad? I believe final fantasy has lost its soul, when it was under square soft it was awesome, square enix kind of ruined the essence of final fantasy. Sure it brought better graphics, but storylines are lacking, and there trying too many different things. They should stick with what the FF series is known for, what gained its popularity, after all it made it go this far.

The FF series needs to reclaim its soul. I fully agree with the OP.

lol

How many of these anti-Enix dummies are out there? Also, mega-FAIL for calling FFIX kiddish. FFVII and FFVIII are the ones that were kiddish, you ignoramus.

and there trying too many different things. .


Holy grammar Batman!!


I agree with prak on the calling IX childish. Also, i don't believe its lost its "soul". I think the change of direction XII took for example was fresh and innovative. They needed to branch out on how the games were a little. If you want to stick with the same old thing forever. That's your choice.

But I don't think you can claim the games are getting worse, just because they don't appeal to you.

i had nothing against the playing system (what ever) of FFXII but its plot was too poor

It should be noted that FF X was developed entirely by Squaresoft. So your argument about Square-Enix and the graphics is completely false.

And there is nothing in FFIX that is more childish than the other games in the series, except for its superficial look.

Played game 10 hours and nothing happened. That's why i sold it; it was boring, and I think it's a bad game if hasn't started after 10 hours. Only random fighting so far. OK, it was fun, by the time, but where was the plot?? Still one of the most beautiful games in ps2 videogame history.

The plot of FF12:
A guy, who wants to be a skypirate (Luke Skywalker),
living on a desert city (Tatooine), meets a princes, whos father has been killed (Leia). Skypirate with half-human-half-animal sidekick (Solo + Chewie) get involded. Evil Empire + badass Wizard-whatever-soldier...and so on =)

Bear in mind that the game takes some 120 hours to complete. 10 hours is nothing. I'd barely reached Bhujerba by 10 hours. That's a good 95% of the game left to go. The plot and characters will reveal themselves in due course.

As for the Star Wars similarities, they're really nothing more than very superficial. When you get to meet more of the characters later, you might change your view.

XII tends to polarise opinion, but considering virtually everyone who criticises it here has not actually played past around halfway, I'd say my generally positive view of the game is relatively unchallenged. If critics of the game don't like the fact that its emphasis is more on a good battle system and interesting bosses, so what? Most of you have still yet to find actual flaws with the game beyond personal distaste. There are flaws, of course, and I'm happy to acknowledge that fact, but most people seem to be basing their dislike of XII on the usual 'plot/characters suck' and/or '1st ten hourz is crap lol' lines, which is what annoys me.

Also, those views have little to back them up. Unless you spend a needlessly long time training or hunting marks, the game flows pretty smoothly for the first 10 hours, and there is some actually some early character development there, particularly concerning Vaan.

It's only really at the Leviathan, and then the subsequent trek through the Sandsea, that any problems with the pacing are particularly obvious. And, I suppose, for a while later in the game, when you trek to Archades.

I know we don't agree on everything as far as FF XII goes, but I have to agree about your rant about the people complaining about the game.

I believe that along with FFIX, VI and IV, FF XII is the game in the series that have the least flaws. I'm usually more forgivable than you when it comes to the LP system, because I see it more as a difficulty tweaking gone casual, more than an actual flaw of the system as such.

But you're right when you mention the pacing and the way everything runs smoothly if you don't farm or complete every side quests.

Personally, I don't think the Leviathan, Sandsea or any other parts of the game have any pacing problems. I like when there is long dungeons in the games I play. And since FF XII have an engaging battle system, it makes the many long dungeons less tedious than when you have to get into random battles every 5 seconds like in previous entries.

In any case, I totally agree with you when you say people should have played through the whole thing before ranting.

Guys, if a game takes ten+ hours to become interesting, then something is seriously wrong, regardless of what it may be like toward the end. What you're doing is like saying that someone's wrong for complaining about a shit-covered cherry not being good because they didn't get through the shit to the cherry beneath it. When I taste shit (metaphorically speaking, as I have never truly tasted shit) I spit it out, as do most sensible people.

I've just finished X and so i'm going back to try and fully complete XII, hopefully this time I can get into the story more.

Guys, if a game takes ten+ hours to become interesting, then something is seriously wrong, regardless of what it may be like toward the end. What you're doing is like saying that someone's wrong for complaining about a shit-covered cherry not being good because they didn't get through the shit to the cherry beneath it. When I taste shit (metaphorically speaking, as I have never truly tasted shit) I spit it out, as do most sensible people.

Yeah. . . I don't see how Final Fantasy compares to shit.

oh yeah, and rpgs take commitment and if you're giving up after 10 hours, i don't see how you've beaten rpgs in the past.

Yeah. . . I don't see how Final Fantasy compares to shit.

oh yeah, and rpgs take commitment and if you're giving up after 10 hours, i don't see how you've beaten rpgs in the past.

He (or she) gave up for a reason. Most of the series gets into the story a lt faster than XII. If FF games didn't have such good stories I probably wouldn't like them anywhere near as much.

Final Fantasy is one of the most inconsistent franchises in gaming history. It has certainly had some entries that can't be considered anything but shit.

And as for commitment, a game has an obligation to be fun from the start. If it fails to do that, it reflects bad design and a failure of the game to fulfill its fundamental purpose, to entertain.

My analogy holds. If you even want to argue with it, I will call you a moron. You can bite through the shit if you're that determined to get to the cherry, but instead of ragging on people who didn't do it, maybe you should find the fundamental malfunction in your own mind that makes you want to do it.

whatever. all I know is that i still like final fantasy. thats all that matters to me

Fine. Like it all you want, but understand that when you spout fancunt bullshit, you will have a new asshole drilled into your face. Speak rationally or be prepared for the consequences.

Fine. Like it all you want, but understand that when you spout fancunt bullshit, you will have a new asshole drilled into your face. Speak rationally or be prepared for the consequences.

So are you saying that you don't like final fantasy?

I just said that it's completely inconsistent. Basic reading comprehension skills would tell you that means I've found something in the series to like. Maybe an exercise of common sense is too much to ask of you though, eh?

I just said that it's completely inconsistent. Basic reading comprehension skills would tell you that means I've found something in the series to like. Maybe an exercise of common sense is too much to ask of you though, eh?

*sigh* Just when I thought you had become nicer.

I get more aggressive when you guys get more retarded. Be less retarded and I'll be nicer.

The ten+ hours to become interesting is subjective, as I founf the game to be interesting from the start.

I get more aggressive when you guys get more retarded. Be less retarded and I'll be nicer.

Okie doke.

Anyway, yeah some are inconsistent but I wouldn't call any of the main series shit, that label can stay with crystal chronicles and chocobo tales.

Hynad, do you really want to go there and start that debate again? This isn't even the right section for it, and you know we'll just wind up stalemated again.

No need to get into that debate again. You have your opinion about the matter, and I got mine.

That isn't going to change.

And there's the reason we never go anywhere. You argue about your opinion. I try to argue nothing but fact and logic. They're incompatible, and neither of us will every make any headway in the argument until someone budges and agrees to argue on the other's terms, which is likely to be never.

There is nothing factual when you say "FF XII isn't interesting in it's first 10 hours of gameplay".


I've been trying to tell you for a long time that many of your so-called facts are in fact nothing but backed opinions

Okie doke.

Anyway, yeah some are inconsistent but I wouldn't call any of the main series shit, that label can stay with crystal chronicles and chocobo tales.

No I dont think any of the main ones were shit as such. Some were more or less fun than others but they wernt that bad or made me stop playing them half way through. Well with the exception of FF12 but that was more down to not having time to play as opposed to not liking it.

You haven't asked for facts, Hynad. Ask for them and I can provide facts and logical inferences to support any position I take.

And besides, a backed opinion carries more weight in an argument than one that isn't.

Really? An opinion is still an opinion, no matter how detailed it is.

I reject that notion. By your logic, an opinion that the moon is a sausage patty would be perfectly respectable.

I reject that notion. By your logic, an opinion that the moon is a sausage patty would be perfectly respectable.

No red velvet cake? I am very disappointed :(

I reject that notion. By your logic, an opinion that the moon is a sausage patty would be perfectly respectable.

That can be disproven so it's not an opinion.

Guys, if a game takes ten+ hours to become interesting, then something is seriously wrong, regardless of what it may be like toward the end. What you're doing is like saying that someone's wrong for complaining about a shit-covered cherry not being good because they didn't get through the shit to the cherry beneath it. When I taste shit (metaphorically speaking, as I have never truly tasted shit) I spit it out, as do most sensible people.

Actually, I did dispute the very fact that there was no serious plot or character development in the first ten hours, so it's not just a case of 'get through the shit before you reach the cherry' (although the cherry of FFXII is pretty sweet, if we're speaking metaphorically here).

My gripe is that some dismiss the game after 10 hours and throw it in the trash without actually thinking about it or giving it a proper chance. They say that there's no plot or character development in the first ten hours, but that's just wrong. Of course, ten hours is different to everyone depending on how much you rush through the game, but if we assume say, a cut off point of just after the Leviathan, which generally takes about 10 hours to reach, I could give you at least two instances where Vaan develops.

Firstly, he finds out that Basch wasn't really the one who killed his brother, realises he's a decent man and forgives him after he helps him escape from Nalbina Fortress. Secondly, he realises what an idiot he's been for putting his quest for the Rabanastre palace treasure (Goddess's Magicite) ahead of the people in his life, such as Penelo, as by getting dumped in Nalbina he was unable to protect her from being kidnapped by Ba'Gamnan's crew.

And there may very well be other instances of character or plot development, as I haven't played the game for about a month or so and am only posting what I remember off the top of my head.

But most people don't notice that. They complain that the game's a little heavy on sidequests and hunts (possibly true) but those things are there as optional sidequests to supplement the game not to replace a lack of plot. The fact that XII is so long is evidence of this, because even doing it without hunts would take 60-70 hours, at least as long as any other FF game.

I'd say the first 10-15 hours of XII are pretty good, personally.

I reject that notion. By your logic, an opinion that the moon is a sausage patty would be perfectly respectable.

I'm not talking about actual facts, I'm talking about many of YOUR facts. That are often your own opinions turned into facts. Though I must say you're quite good at doing so. Try to prove that FF XII is such a bad game.

I told you already that this is the wrong place for that argument.

And anyway, I wonder if you guys have never read my little thesis on the fact/opinion dichotomy that essentially states that all opinions have a basis in immutable fact and that they are, by nature, distortions or outright denials of those facts. The reason I'm as effective in a debate as I am is becuase I know how to slice through the bullshit of opinions and discern the underlying facts, then put them in context.

Then do so here.


You know I don't listen to bragging.

And anyway, I wonder if you guys have never read my little thesis on the fact/opinion dichotomy that essentially states that all opinions have a basis in immutable fact and that they are, by nature, distortions or outright denials of those facts. The reason I'm as effective in a debate as I am is becuase I know how to slice through the bullshit of opinions and discern the underlying facts, then put them in context.

Apart from the last sentence in my last post which is obviously an opinion and presented as such, please show me where in this thread I have distorted or denied any of the facts.

My posts are obviously an opinion per se, as I am saying the game is actually pretty good, but all my actual arguments are pure fact.

Guys, you do realize that I'm not going to continue to post on the matter here, right? For one thing, it's the wrong place for it. For another, I'll debate a matter all day one-on-one, but when other people jump in on either side, it becomes too much of a hassle. If you want to pick a champion for your cause to take up the matter against me, that's fine, but you're not getting your argument until then.

Nice way to cower away, Prak.

Why don't you just start a thread with a resume on FF XII?

You're not going to goad me. You care about this a lot more than I do, so if you want it to happen, you do the work.

You're the one claiming to know the facts.

Until you state any of them, it would be nice if you could stop the pretentions.

Like:



And anyway, I wonder if you guys have never read my little thesis on the fact/opinion dichotomy that essentially states that all opinions have a basis in immutable fact and that they are, by nature, distortions or outright denials of those facts. The reason I'm as effective in a debate as I am is becuase I know how to slice through the bullshit of opinions and discern the underlying facts, then put them in context.


You say all that while you didn't provide any facts beforehand.

Just leave Prak be, Hynad. The way it is, he's proven nothing in this thread anyway (and nor have any of XII's other detractors), so there's little point in baiting him purely to get some sort of thrill at having provoked a response.

Crisis Core is the best final fantasy game ever created. Blasphemy you say? Madness? Nay, for Crisis Core is the most playable FF. Sure, there was a lot of generally nonsensical crap involved in the plot, completely unnecessary characters and ridiculous dialogue... But that's true of ALL of them. It's a japanese videogame, intended for mass consumption so if you though the plot would be strong enough to fight its way out of a wet paper bag you were asking to be dissapointed.

I found final fantasy 12 just about fun enough to get all the way to Pharos, before giving up on it.
Looking back there isn't much more to it than walking around watching your people boshing billions of monsters with their attack command (automatically of course)
even the main side quests are nothing more than trekking somewhere and smashing some monster's face in.

The only thing stopping the dungeons from becoming too much of a chore were the fact you get a little stronger with each monster you kill.

And the fact you're almost completely blind when advancing through the license board makes it much more of a pain than it needs to be.

Crisis Core is the best final fantasy game ever created. Blasphemy you say? Madness? Nay, for Crisis Core is the most playable FF. Sure, there was a lot of generally nonsensical crap involved in the plot, completely unnecessary characters and ridiculous dialogue... But that's true of ALL of them. It's a japanese videogame, intended for mass consumption so if you though the plot would be strong enough to fight its way out of a wet paper bag you were asking to be dissapointed.

I liked Crisis Core. Though I can't say it's the best, it is the best of the FFVII compilation

BWAAAA
FF10 Blows!!!
FF11 Sucks!
New FF7 + Advent Children is a terrible story for FF7!!!


That is all...
- Joby

Crisis Core is the best final fantasy game ever created. Blasphemy you say? Madness? Nay, for Crisis Core is the most playable FF. Sure, there was a lot of generally nonsensical crap involved in the plot, completely unnecessary characters and ridiculous dialogue... But that's true of ALL of them. It's a japanese videogame, intended for mass consumption so if you though the plot would be strong enough to fight its way out of a wet paper bag you were asking to be dissapointed.

Play IV, VI, and/or the original Tactics, grow some pubic hair, then come back and play with the big boys. Until you do, you can shove that Fanboyism up your ass for all I care.

Yes indeed they are. The one thing I can't stand now, is how they are changing the American voice overs from basic English, to some 15th century Shakespearian crap. It's one of the things I didn't like about XII, it was hard to understand some of the stuff the characters were saying. They also did it to FFT's for the PSP if I'm not mistaken.

Yes indeed they are. The one thing I can't stand now, is how they are changing the American voice overs from basic English, to some 15th century Shakespearian crap. It's one of the things I didn't like about XII, it was hard to understand some of the stuff the characters were saying. They also did it to FFT's for the PSP if I'm not mistaken.

I actually think that this was FFXII's strongest point. It showed a much more mature tone and made the game generally more engrossing. But all in all, it really does boil down to opinion. And whether you think that these titles are getting worse or even more commercial with age or not, they are going to be around for a little while longer.

But all in all, it really does boil down to opinion.

Saying stuff like this is nothing but an attempt (albeit a poor one) to kill actual discussion. You shouldn't do it.

then maybe....

yur tooo slow for the extreme speeds of fast paced KOMBAT
maybe

i actually liked FFXII cuz no one was cool, they were all "average" looking people...

by the way the trailers show it , ff13 doesnt look very turn battle like at all

the turn based fighting was best by far

the turn based is for FF13 but i think the made it real time for FFv13...
not sure but i saw it somewhere

the turn based battles i think they made it turn based but when u play it you choose a command and after the "attack" you dont move back to your spot you like stay on a different part of the area i guess...

Well I feel that all the Final Fantasy games (now that I've played them) have always remained cutting edge, often pioneering new ideas and defining each generations RPG genre.

Personally I'm ok with the lack of a world map. I'm upset about the lack of flying a ship like the Ragnarock, I've spent 2 hours flying that ship in FFVIII

I love flying the airships! They really give you a sense of the scale of the world you are playing in.

Play IV, VI, and/or the original Tactics, grow some pubic hair, then come back and play with the big boys. Until you do, you can shove that Fanboyism up your ass for all I care.

+1, good comment.

I love the airships too for that same reason.

Im glad we all agree ^_._^

I think the early Final Fantasys were the best and I like the new fighting system in FFXII but it will never be Final Fantasy without the battle arena thing...

For a FF game to be a FF it needs:

1) Original FF theme tune and prelude
2) Battle arena thing with turn base
3) magic

I think the early Final Fantasys were the best and I like the new fighting system in FFXII but it will never be Final Fantasy without the battle arena thing...

For a FF game to be a FF it needs:

1) Original FF theme tune and prelude
2) Battle arena thing with turn base
3) magic

Actually it doesn't. It's an FF game if square-enix decides to call it an FF game.

Actually it doesn't. It's an FF game if square-enix decides to call it an FF game.
sorry i meant in my point of view but i don't think anyone would care of the opinions of a sixteen year old :(

sorry i meant in my point of view but i don't think anyone would care of the opinions of a sixteen year old :(

Age has nothing to do with it.

I don't feel that every final fantasy needs to have identical things in it. Common traits are nice, but look at FF2: it didn't have any cross overs at all.

Age has nothing to do with it.

I don't feel that every final fantasy needs to have identical things in it. Common traits are nice, but look at FF2: it didn't have any cross overs at all.

Sorry, Redbat, but you're using one of the worst FFs (gameplay wise) as an example. That doesn't very well help your arguement. =/

sorry i meant in my point of view but i don't think anyone would care of the opinions of a sixteen year old :(

Same age as me.

I know that you meant in your opinion but dismissing an FF game as not being an FF game because certain traits that are typical in most of the series are not included is kind of stupid.

OMG!!! Metal Gear Solid 3 isn't a MGS game!!!

Because Solid Snake isn't in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8O

........
What does MGS have to do with FINAL FANTASY??????

sigh

Having to explain yourself to every brain damaged fools who can't see a damn sarcasm no matter how obvious it is is not fun at all.

Well, Im Sorry if i spoiled what you call fun. I call it stupitity. But, that is my opinion. Besides I do agree that FF is getting worse...and worse...and worse. I hope that FFXIII is a good game

Well, Im Sorry if i spoiled what you call fun. I call it stupitity. But, that is my opinion. Besides I do agree that FF is getting worse...and worse...and worse. I hope that FFXIII is a good game

Jesus fucking christ.

?_? I thought that Jesus and Christ were the Same person. So, what you said was impossible

?_? I thought that Jesus and Christ were the Same person. So, what you said was impossible

It wasn't meant to be taken literally ok sweetie?

I kno that it wasn't literate! You bit the bait, and got caught in the trap!
=p

Sorry, Redbat, but you're using one of the worst FFs (gameplay wise) as an example. That doesn't very well help your arguement. =/
The main reason I used FF2 was because it didn't hold much resemblence to Final Fantasy 1 at all, yet it was still a Final Fantasy, and Paarish was making reference to "earlier" games.

I could bark on about levels from FFX and what-not, but you're probably sensible enough to agree with on the fact that not all Final Fantasy games need to be the same.

I don't see how Square trying to change things in a game that become quite boring after a while is a bad thing.

wow this thread came far
ive not logged on ffshrine for over 4months

continue the arguments and i see what people mean about ff12 battle style being good but turn-based over-rules them by far

happy debating

The main reason I used FF2 was because it didn't hold much resemblence to Final Fantasy 1 at all, yet it was still a Final Fantasy, and Paarish was making reference to "earlier" games.

I could bark on about levels from FFX and what-not, but you're probably sensible enough to agree with on the fact that not all Final Fantasy games need to be the same.

I don't see how Square trying to change things in a game that become quite boring after a while is a bad thing.

Yeah I suppose you're right but I like how Square keeps most things similar throughout the series e.g. magic names (firaga, blizzaga, thunderga), weapon names (ancient sword), bosses (gilgamesh)
I don't think I'm making a good argument... hopefully you know what I'm trying to say

Well, Im Sorry if i spoiled what you call fun. I call it stupitity. But, that is my opinion. Besides I do agree that FF is getting worse...and worse...and worse. I hope that FFXIII is a good game

You call stupidity... what?


That I used an analogy coupled with sarcasm (The combination have obviously been too much for your slow brain) to apply the same illogical argument that Paarish used?


I call it stupidity that you cannot possibly think and understand things by yourself. This sarcastic analogy was quite easy to understand, and as usual, you failed miserably.



And finally, you didn't spoil anything. On the contrary, your reply made it even more amusing.

Yeah I suppose you're right but I like how Square keeps most things similar throughout the series e.g. magic names (firaga, blizzaga, thunderga), weapon names (ancient sword), bosses (gilgamesh)
I don't think I'm making a good argument... hopefully you know what I'm trying to say

Ding! Ding! Ding! What do we have for him, Johnny?

We have....A BRAND NEW PS3!

Yeah I suppose you're right but I like how Square keeps most things similar throughout the series e.g. magic names (firaga, blizzaga, thunderga), weapon names (ancient sword), bosses (gilgamesh)
I don't think I'm making a good argument... hopefully you know what I'm trying to say

The magic names were Ice1, Ice2, etc. until FF8. Gilgamesh was only a boss in 5 and 12, too. Jftr.
You're not making that a good arguement, no.

I think that it's sweet to see references to older games within the Final Fantasy series. Common traits are nice, because it's fun to see the Square are keeping some consistency. It's also nice to have a few little references as a "reward" (if you may)to those loyal to the series, and fun to see how they're going to work in Cid or a Maoi.

I think that's what you were trying to say.

Okkkk....What do I do with the prize then?

The magic names were Ice1, Ice2, etc. until FF8. Gilgamesh was only a boss in 5 and 12, too. Jftr.
You're not making that a good arguement, no.

I think that it's sweet to see references to older games within the Final Fantasy series. Common traits are nice, because it's fun to see the Square are keeping some consistency. It's also nice to have a few little references as a "reward" (if you may)to those loyal to the series, and fun to see how they're going to work in Cid or a Maoi.

I think that's what you were trying to say.

are you sure about the magic names... hmm ive got to check this. Gilgamesh was in the remade version of FF1 and in the remade version FF3 as well

We have....A BRAND NEW PS3!

I just don't know what to say... I would like to thank my fans... My mom and dad, my friends. I'm just so emotional :D

Okkkk....What do I do with the prize then?
Shove it up your arse and suck on it.


are you sure about the magic names... hmm ive got to check this. Gilgamesh was in the remade version of FF1 and in the remade version FF3 as well
You've played FF7. They were named m2 and m3 in there. Unless you think that whoever wrote the magic thought that Fira and Firaga should be replaced with the oh-so ornate Fire2 and Fire3.

Not according to this (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gilgamesh). I'm not holding that as any sort of authority, though. There isn't really any topic at hand here, now. We're just dawdling imo.

:loldata:

Shove it up your arse and suck on it.


You've played FF7. They were named m2 and m3 in there. Unless you think that whoever wrote the magic thought that Fira and Firaga should be replaced with the oh-so ornate Fire2 and Fire3.

Not according to this (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gilgamesh). I'm not holding that as any sort of authority, though. There isn't really any topic at hand here, now. We're just dawdling imo.

I just thought they only named it in FF7 as m1, m2, m3 etc. Cos after that I played FF9, FF10, FF8 in which they all named it fira, firaga and sometimes firaja

You DO realise there was FF1-FF6, yeah?

Yea...

Wasn't asking you.

Shove it up your arse and suck on it.

This comment alone makes my world a much better place. Thanks for the lolz.

Do I Care what you all think?

Do I Care what you all think?


Obviously you must if you continue to post, especially asking such a question.

Look I have nothing against you at all, but from what I've seen your posts can sometimes lack depth or description and often leave me wondering "What was all that about?"

One word posts (outside of the rumbles) are somewhat deemed as criminal around here hehehe.

I dunno if my judgement is right or wrong. Either way, I'm just throwing it out there. Do with it what you will.

You DO realise there was FF1-FF6, yeah?

where you talkin to me cuz I have a name and yes I do realize that there was FF1-FF6 I just played FF7-10 first

Obviously you must if you continue to post, especially asking such a question.

Look I have nothing against you at all, but from what I've seen your posts can sometimes lack depth or description and often leave me wondering "What was all that about?"

One word posts (outside of the rumbles) are somewhat deemed as criminal around here hehehe.

I dunno if my judgement is right or wrong. Either way, I'm just throwing it out there. Do with it what you will.

Well, it seems that im doing my job!

This thread is saying that FFXII was bad and so the FF games are getting worse. If XIII and Versus XIII are bad then you may have a valid argument but I think there needs to be a few more consistently bad additions to the series to warrant the statement that the series is going downhill.

But, It is going downhill! Trust me!

But, It is going downhill! Trust me!

Why? Because you didn't like FFXII? That's an empty argument if there ever was one.

I thought FFXII was better than FFII (story-wise)

I enjoyed XII myself, which has led me to the conclusion that the later FF games are not necessarily 'worse', but 'different'. Some people may see this change as an improvement, while others may not like it as much, but that's down to personal preference. Also, I agree with Harkus that, even if FFXII is viewed as bad, a few more bad games need to be made before the series can be said to be going downhill.

I liked XII aswell, it is certainly different (which is why some people dislike it)

It IS different! I will agree. But, from what i know, people hate different!

It's not like it recieved perfect scores from many reviewers and sold loads of copies is it?

The reviewers could have all been Final fantasy fanboys

Im sure that a lot of those "reviewers" are fanpeople

The reviewers could have all been Final fantasy fanboys

Isn't this thread about FF games getting worse? Surely fanboys would be the ones starting this debate since I know of many regular gamers that prefer FFXII to any of the other FF's.

It IS different! I will agree. But, from what i know, people hate different!

I think so as well. At first, I didn't like it but it grew on me

Well would we agree that Final Fantasy games ARE or AREN'T getting worse?

I don't think they are.


If anything, they've been stagnating until recently. And got on a fresh new start with XI-XII.

I only hear complaints about FFXII, although I was enjoying it.

FFXIII and FF Versus XIII look good

So, ur saying that they are getting better? Thats intresting. I think that it is wobbling from good to bad to good again.

I only hear complaints about FFXII, although I was enjoying it.

FFXIII and FF Versus XIII look good

Visual appeal doesn't mean shit about the gameplay.

final fantasy XII was the best gane i poalyed besides vagrant story

final fantasy XII was the best gane i poalyed besides vagrant story

Conclusive proof that morons like FFXII. And if it's something that a moron can like...

I think FFXII is a good game. I liked the storyline, and the new combat system. I think its great!

Oh man, at the rate you guys are going, no one with half a brain will ever be able to admit to liking the game again for fear of being lumped in with you. :laugh:

Oh, are u serious? I think not!

I smell a troll........

Nearly all posts on this page are by De Grande Freak.

Get rid of post count imho.

Is it my fault that i have become more active in the forums?

Yes, yes it is.

No one else can be blamed for how often you post.


Also, it is one thing to be active, but it is another to just have one word posts or posts that practically say nothing at all.

Anyway I grow tired of this topic, and it really has nothing to do with the thread.

Forget I said anything >.>

Well, I feel, like i said before, that Final Fantasy Games are at a steady pattern. Some are good, some arent as good. Thats the way it is

Conclusive proof that morons like FFXII. And if it's something that a moron can like...

I lol'd

XIII was ok, nothing special. It had alot of fun parts but I was fairly disinterested near the end so I never even finished the last boss though I'm sure I could have easily.

X > all imo, though I'm a big fan of 8 (Minus the levelling monsters part)

XIII was ok, nothing special.

YOU'VE PLAYED XIII??? OMG!!!!!!

I love the #1 complaint against FFXII ~ the battle system. It is funny considering that the battle system in XII is the ATB system (which is many other FFs use including Chrono Trigger). Or, how people say once you set up gambits you never have to actually play the game. News flash! Gambits are an option. Turn the gambits off - set the combat to "wait" mode and you have essentially the battle system in every other FF game. Or use them on two characters and control a third 100% (That's what I did and it added so many interesting layers to the combat).

The point of releasing new games is to innovate and build upon the past. The battle system in FFXII is perfect. It is so utterly addictive and engaging - I salivate at the mouth in hopes that next gen games use something like gambits - but go even deeper than the waters that FFXII treaded. Think of entire armies of NPCs who act and react based on your preferences. I kind of went off on a tangent here - but to call FFXII a horrid game because of the battle system is utterly silly. The battle system is the natural evolution of its predecessors.

they are getting worse there easier now ff12 was simple vayne is the weakest boss ever(right i know the first final fantasy chaos was easy but still)ff9 was the best one but playstation2 ruined em lol if they make a second part of ff9 (i have been hoping for years lol) then i hope to god they keep the original fighting style as like ff9

I think FFs arent going in a bad direction, just some bad choices along the way. FF12 was good, though I hated the gambit system and I think first time in a FF game, bad characters.

I don't think they're getting worse. I think we're just getting older and more nostalgic for the past games. I mean, the next FF would really have to blow me away in order for me not to consider it as, at most, a 'meh' game. Which is sort of unfair; the recent FFs that I've played are good in their own rights, but incomparable to the earlier ones I've played.

I'll admit that I'm biased in leaning towards the earlier FFs, but the fact is, just because I've played them first doesn't necessarily make them better overall. For example, I like FF7. I've also read (seemingly) countless criticisms against it, saying that it's not a well-developed story, contains plotholes, etc. ad absurdum. But I still like the game nonetheless. So really, the judgment that the games are getting worse is, for me, a biased judgment because I'm playing them (relatively) in order.

Furthermore, the more used I am to the RPG form/structure, the more bored I get with rehashed tropes/cliches. But, of course, as I was playing the earlier RPGs, I had no concept of the RPG form, so playing them was fun, new, and refreshing. A bit of a long post, but...you see what I'm saying, right? There's nothing intrinsic about Ultimecia that makes her a better antagonist than Vayne. If anything, her motives are more unclear than Vayne's. But I still enjoy the final battle against Ultimecia more than against Vayne.

End result: The reason the old ones are "better" is a psychological reason, not an intrinsic reason.

wow, people think i that i think that because i dont like ffxii that they are going down hill
a few messages-
i do like ffxii BUT the turn based system was much better and ffxiii doesnt look very turn based at all. the new ffxii revnant wings wasnt turn based either so i think that they went downhill after ffx
the first 10 rocked
and also
The stuff about carrying things on through games- i definately agree with that- anyway
BYE

I do agree that the vayne boss wasnt the strongest...(I beat all his forms with lvl 48-49 characters) but all in all, FFXII is a good game...and plus,
The Undying looked cool and wierd...

try it lvl 60 and zodiac spear the battles are so fast but the likes of yiazmat 50million hp thats way to far so yes it is getting worse and the ending i dont want to spoil but it was crap
and i do hope that they make movies of final fantasys i realy want to see ff9 as a movie lol

I dunno if they're getting worse or not. Square are being pretty gay and milking FF7 for all it's worth, but other than that the FF games are still okay. I didn't like FFXII's story or characters at all but it was fantastic in every other way, and X was great too. I have high hopes for the upcoming games too, although I have to agree I don't think they'll make a game as good as FFIX again.

final fantasy 7 is the most overrated final fantasy game ever.

I-good II-good III=Meh IV-great V-great VI-good VII-Ultra Great VIII-Very good IX-Great verything else-crap

VII-Ultra Greatlost all your credibility, not even only there.

Of course Final Fantasy is getting worse. Isn't it obvious? SquareSoft was much ebtter than SquareEnix. SquareSoft put all their heart and soul into making the games, they took time and effort for them. They tried adding the drama that we all enjoy.
Ever since SquareEnix bought out SquareSoft Final Fantasy has lost it's touch, SquareEnix bought out Square Soft because they thought they could make some money with the Final Fantasy games. SquareSoft cared more about their buyers than they did the mone, or so it seems.
SquareEnix is only in this for the money, they don't care about their customers. They want their customers to continue buying it, yes. But they only put that little bit of thought into it.
They don't want to make them suck too bad, because they don't want the sales to drop. Tch, I despise SquareEnix for buying out SquareSoft. Final Fantasy was always good, Final Fantasy VIII almost made me cry at the part where they were in space. But then SquareEnix came into the picture, bought them out, then Final Fantasy X-23 came out, we all know that game sucked compared to the other Final Fantasy games, Then we come to Final Fantasy XI, which was an online game. So it IS a money-making game. That part is obvious.
But seriously, nobody even liked Final Fantasy XII. The Battle System and the Graphics is the only good part about that game. What makes everyone think that Final Fantasy XIII would be so much better? SquareEnix doesn't have what it takes to be making games. They should had left it to SquareSoft.

uhhh ... SquareEnix IS Squaresoft + Enix.

But seriously, nobody even liked Final Fantasy XII. The Battle System and the Graphics is the only good part about that game.

I liked FFXII. In fact, it's my favourite FF - I actually enjoyed the politics and maturity of the story. I certainly wouldn't say "nobody" liked FFXII, and you shouldn't assume that everyone agrees with your views on the series.

Also, as PerfectLibra said, Square Enix is Squaresoft + Enix.

/agree

I love FFXII with all my heart. I was depressed after I beat the game. I know that sounds a little sad - but I wish there was more!

nobody can squeeze in all the stuff for different requirement at one sec,hold it .....it ll be.....

I didn't finish Final Fantasy XII. I just personally couldn't enjoy the direction that the game went. I'm the type of RPG fan that loves to get sucked into the character chemistry and epic story lines that actually involve the characters more.

No way that Final Fantasy games are going down hill. Final Fantasy XII, in my opinion, was just an unwelcome addition to the Franchise. It certainly hasn't been the first one. People need to lighten up a little on the whole "The Series is DOOMED! ZOMG!" act.

I don't have a problem with the gameplay direction, but they haven't made a good original story 10 and most of the characters from the last two mothership final fantasy games were awful.

I wouldnt say they were awful....
besides, i liked FF XII because it had a bit of a different focus in character emphases and plot line...

i've already posted elsewhere that i was disappointed with pretty much everything in FFXII, but i will defend the battle system, which i think is (inconsistently) getting better. in a negative mood i could totally map the downfall of square, it seems very easy to do - the merger with enix, uematsu stepping down from his role as composer - but i'm optimistic right now as it happens. and i think when you look at every FF game in the series, particuarly after seven, they've all made some fairly drastic changes, taken some real risks with the system, and generally experimented as much as possible - they've never once rested on their laurels really. i realise the NES / SNES games were a lot more similar in some respects (and i haven't played FF3) but they still each had fairly different feels systemwise. it would have been SO easy to just carry on with the materia thing after the success of 7, and it probably is a better system overall than what they tried in 8 & 9 - but they didnt recycle it and i'm glad. i feel like the general rule of final fantasy is to try and make each one feel as different & standalone a game as possible. you could compare it to music - some bands make a whole career out of recycling the same songs over & over. people love them for it, but it gets old eventually. other musicians try and give their albums totally different themes & moods, take new directions recklessly & generally do what they want to do without worrying about fanbase reaction - something we all know is very fickle. theres nothing worse sometimes than dedicated fans, we all (openly or secretly) hate change a little bit, because it could be for the worse. i was worried after FF9, i felt the system was dumbed down a lot compared to 8. i didnt realise at the time the huge potential for speedrun techniques then - since watching some of those recently i realise how much i missed out on, and how well designed a game it really is - and i pretty much 100%ed that game, minus the exaclibur 2 of course....
anyway ten proved me wrong, the system got complicated again, and everything changed all over. and again some was for the better, some for the worse. ditto with X2 - i totally thought that would recycle the system from X, being a sequel... and in fact it had a better one.
my problem was that since my first FF (7) i'd been going into every new game expecting something similar, something i already knew the system backward on. i'll fully admit i rebelled against the wait system in X to the point where throughout my first playthrough i basically played it as if it was on ATB & most of the time forgot i had time to plan my moves - the whole concept was alien to me, i just wanted to make snap decisions - and unsurprisingly i got completely annihilated throughout the game. when i finally went back to it and bothered to learn the mechanics properly, i found it a whole lot easier and suddenly killing those dark aeons seemed vaguely possible (and i got them!)
so really all i'm trying to say in this convoluted ranting manner is that the next game will no doubt be totally different from 12. and we dislikers of 12 will hopefully like the next one a whole lot more. square have still continued taking risks and experimenting since their merger with enix - if they'd become swallowed up in the formation of some kind of soulless corporation then i'm sure the first thing to go would have been such change. you could argue they've become even more playful with their old characters and ideas since (although thats clearly a controversial topic - i can see the FF7 sequels are not to everyones liking at all from a lot of the posts on here) - i dont think theyve started pandering to their fanbase.
what i do think would be really cool though is if they did what capcom did with megaman 9 and bring out a new SNES era final fantasy with the old engine & all intact. i think a lot of people would like that, right?

I think it has gone downhill, the lack of a world map in any rpg is disorienting unless it is done creatively, but i have to say 8, 9, 12 were disappointments to me (SORRY! if you disagree)

You guys have been bitching since VI and you just never stop.


p.s. I betcha a lot of the posts in this thread refer to how bad XIII is despite barely any of us actually playing any gameplay.

p.p.s. i like all of the Final Fantasy games

i love all ff games, they are so different to every other games around, they broke through with their stories and role playing but they have to move with the times sadly and de loss of sakaguchi and uematsu has made it even harder, i hope they never stop being made but sadly i think de future is bleak, final fantasy fans you all rock :)

Ah, Final Fantasy fans...the most broken fanbase in the gaming world. Right next to Sonic the Hedgehog and Nintendo in general.

I think it's been going down hill since FF6, but there have been some bright spots.

Ah, Final Fantasy fans...the most broken fanbase in the gaming world. Right next to Sonic the Hedgehog and Nintendo in general.

You've got to be kidding.

The majority of gamers agree to say that Sonic become shittier after Sonic And Knuckles (The outstanding Sonic 3 and Knuckles) and almost everyone agree that Zelda Ocarina of Time is the pinnacle of the series, even if things didn't really get worse after (WW and TP were still highly praised and weren't really considered as signs that things were going downhill).

Same for Mario. Super Mario 64 is still considered one of the best 3D platformer ever created, while Galaxy is praised almost as much as 64 was.


Though I can agree to some extent when you talk about the Final Fantasy, I don't see where you're getting that broken fanbase when it comes to these.
series.

You've got to be kidding.

The majority of gamers agree to say that Sonic become shittier after Sonic And Knuckles (The outstanding Sonic 3 and Knuckles) and almost everyone agree that Zelda Ocarina of Time is the pinnacle of the series, even if things didn't really get worse after (WW and TP were still highly praised and weren't really considered as signs that things were going downhill).

Same for Mario. Super Mario 64 is still considered one of the best 3D platformer ever created, while Galaxy is praised almost as much as 64 was.


Though I can agree to some extent when you talk about the Final Fantasy, I don't see where you're getting that broken fanbase when it comes to these.
series.

Please note that when I say broken fanbase, I mean just that. FANBASE, not the games. You know what...here ya go. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase)

I understand all this pretty well.

There's still no broken fanbase when it comes to Sonic and the main Nintendo titles.

As I said, the majority agrees on what games are the pinnacles of each series I mentioned.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles, Mario 64/Galaxy, Zelda OOT...

Broken would be if a concensus can't be agreed on. Which isn't the case with those games.

FF10 and downwards were the best but ff12 and the new ff12 for the ds and dirge of cerberus were not as good
they changed the battle style which i think ruins the game
any opinions reply to this thread

Well there is obviously a million different opinions on this one and there are a number of factors in the opinions. 1) First FF Game you played 2) Your age and other personality factors.

Personally I like traditional RPGs like D&D, Ultima so I prefer FF1-4, 5 started to get complex w/ job sys and FF6 started w/ industrial themes and then the series went to a star wars futuristic setting that doesn't interest me.

I would say the series has changed and strayed away from the traditional RPGs, Sci-Fi was always mixed in the series since the first game but eventually it became the basis.

It really dpends on your taste, not sure I would say the series got bad but evolved into something very different then what it started with.

FF1-V: Had a very traditional RPG theme w/ a little sci-fi thrown in there (robots and whatnot).

FF6-7, 9: Was pretty industrial w/ magic forgotten, machines, factories etc.

FF8: Star Wars futuristic.

FF 10: Had asian pop futuraristic theme.

FF 11, 12: Star Wars Fururistic w/ Mid Evil and tradiontal elements thrown in, these are a "mixed bag" trying to have something for everyone.

Hoo boy. We're just asking for trouble in this thread aren't we? It's not right on any level to say that Final Fantasy is getting worse because it's all so opinion based. It doesn't even matter so much as to what age you are. I hadn't played FFIV until about three years ago, and you know what? I really liked it. It's my second favorite Final Fantasy title, actually. And lo-and-behold, guess what my favorite is? Seven. That's right, Seven is my personal (as in, me, not you or your cat) favorite FF game. And guess what? I and the people who play games that I know do not consider me a fanboy! Holy Cosmos, who would've thought?!

And you know what else? One of my friends likes VIII the best. Crazy, I know, two different Final Fantasy Fans who like two different games can be friends. And here comes the kicker, our other friend likes IX best! And we don't argue over nonsense like whose "emo" (though using that word makes me want to hurt moogles), or which has the best story, or which is most badass, or...anything! We also don't go around making statements that are just asking for wars to be started like this! Can you guess why? We each have our own personal likes and dislikes. And you do too! You (yes, you!) are entitled to your own opinion! And so is he! And so is she! And so are they! And your cat even is too!

Now, this may come as a shock, but... no one will listen to you when you flame. All you're doing is yelling, "I like food!" in a crowded room and asking for everyone else to respond "I like waffles!" or "Potatoes!" in response until everyone is yelling about what they like and no one's listening and your have to fight just to get out.

So, to make a long observation short, are the Final Fantasy games getting worse? Nah. Are there "bad" Final Fantasy games? I don't think so. It just depends on what you appreciate and how you view things. Do you like a certain story element or not? Does Golbez, The Emperor, Ex Death, Cloud of Darkness, Kefka, Sephiroth, Ultemecia, Kuja, or Sin scare/anger you most? What draws most at your heart or do you care least about? There's XII of them! Pick one! Pick two! Pick all of 'em! Have an opinion as to why Sephiroth is the best/worst and why Kefka is the best/worst! Or don't! Don't shove Cecil in my face and tell me he's the best hero! He and I wouldn't appreciate that! But if you calmly explain why he's the best and have back up, and enough class to not be rude about things, I'll listen. And Cecil will thank you for the wonderful compliment.

Tell us what you like, don't shove it in our faces and expect us to agree. Because anyone who has played any Final Fantasy knows that that doesn't work so well, huh?

In other words, you're offended by actual discussion. Grow up. The world does not begin and end behind your own eyeballs.

I'd hardly call this discussion. The first post was a statement with nothing to back it up (To his credit, he did offer up for discussion though). And you don't even need to read all ten pages of this thread to know that most of this is half the final fantasy fans who like one of the first six versus the other half who like seven and on. There are defiently some moments in here that are civil conversation, but mostly it's a bunch of people tearing at eachother and not listenting because they think what they believe is right, no matter what.

And your response to my previous post isn't doing much to help. And while we're on the topic, what the hell is "The world does not begin and end behind your own eyeballs" supposed to mean?

And you honestly have a problem with people disagreeing or even arguing about their preferences? I'm sorry to inform you that your little attempt to stifle the free expression of individuality will fall on deaf ears hear. People around here are generally quite happy to be confrontational. You can adapt to it, choose to ignore it, or just get the hell out, but you cannot change it.

As for the bit you didn't comprehend, chew on it for a while and maybe you'll find some wisdom.

Disagreeing and arguing are different from just making a statement and refusing to listen to anyone else but those that agree with you. Discussion and talking and being different is great, it's the spice of life, But that's not really what's happening here. And I'm sorry to inform you that trying to call me out on stifling "free expression of individuality" is pretty immature and "falls on deaf ears". I'm not trying to stifle anything. Where in my first post does it allude to wanting people to not express themselves? Did you read the whole thing, and read it correctly? I merely commented that it seems like most of the posts in this thread are pretty angry and seem unwilling to listen to anyones opinion but their own. Not all, but a pretty vast number. I'm not looking to change anything, that's really not my place, I'm just trying to make a small recommendation that might open more people up to a person's opinion.

And your little "wisdom" isn't wisdom at all. That's just a poor attempt at being cryptic.

After reading your initial post again, I have to confess that I missed a couple of lines that change my entire outlook on it. I still think your rant was over the top, questionably-composed (hence my confusion) and generally useless, but it's not offensive in any sort of way. Thus it seems I owe you an apology.

Anyway, I don't disagree with you at all. There is an excessive amount of bile that gets flung around. Still, I don't begrudge it unless it intrudes on a genuinely worthwhile conversation, in which case I will usually attack without restraint.

And no, I wasn't trying to be cryptic at all. I honestly thought you'd understand what I was trying to say without any need for explanation.

Lastly, for whatever it may be worth, I like you and hope you stick around.

Heh, well I'm relived to say the least that we had this duel. I appreciate your words and hope to do this again sometime.

Guess I'm just a spoony bard.

I hate when people say defiently (whatever that means) when they mean to say definitely...

Revenant Wings Was awesome!

I absolutely hated FFXII. Got something like 40 hours in and at no point did I really stop and think "Wow, this is a great game." I just sort of kept plodding along until I asked myself why I'm still playing this game if I don't enjoy it. So I stopped, never beat it and I've had no desire to go back to it. I think the downward spiral started with Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, which in my opinion took one of the greatest, most in-depth games of the franchise, and completely raped it of anything resembling challenge or depth, leaving us a game that seems like it was made for elementary school students.
I've since stopped playing FF games, and I have no desire to play FFXIII from what I've seen either. And these FFVII remakes / spinoffs need to stop already. FFVII by itself was a great game, but all this half-assed fan service *cough* Dirge of Cerberus! *cough* needs to stop.

I've played 1 - 10-2 (except for 5 which I'm playing now) and, for a while, Final Fantasy II turned me off to Final Fantasy. Such an unimpressive game...and the villain had such LAME motivation! I couldn't even finish it!

Are you telling me you actually tried to play in sequence? I'm impressed. Yeah, FFII's plot is pretty paper-thin and the battle system is really weird, but I'm willing to give it a break, given that it was still so early on in the series.

well in general i haven't been TOO disappointed with final fantasy in recent years. i mean Crisis Core was GREAT, final fantasy XII was pretty decent although not as good as some of the others, dissidia was exciting and something new to the series.
these newer games may not be as good as the others but still are great
However i do feel that Square Enix has been making too many efforts to impress and make money, which by the looks of it is right about the only thing they care about right now. As a result many of the games we use to love have disappeared and at least i don't know exactly how i feel about that.
However, i still believe that they are capable of making games that we can come to love. That belief is based on a game i recently played(developed by square) called Lost Odyssey. It is exactly how i wanted modern day final fantasy to be. It was great and i hope that their other games can follow its example.

/facepalm

If you base your belief in Square-Enix still being able to make good games on Lost Odyssey, you should know that the game was not developed by S-E at all. The driving force behind it was a company called Mistwalker, which is largely composed of people who left S-E, including Hironobu Sakaguchi, the guy who originally created Final Fantasy. In other words, that game is more of a testament to how much Square has lost than what they're capable of.

I've played almost every game in the FF series... and while their are some which I do remember fondly (FFIV), there are others which I have to say I do hate (FFCC, FFMQ, FFX, FFX-2 and FFXII).

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
This game was bad imo... bad how it was designed, story wise, everything about this game made me want to vomit violently. Granted I only played about an hour of it, but that's an hour I won't get back...

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
A very basic and beginning title, to introduce people into the FF series... yet it was boring and unimaginative.

Final Fantasy X
Lacklustre title, no really memorable characters (Lulu, Auron and Kimahri were the only ones who I remotely liked), story was old and the &$*(&&^*@&%$!!! sphere grid... FUCK... I know SE tried to make it so we could level our characters how we wanted, but the sphere grid was ridiculous.

Final Fantasy X-2
A complete waste of time imo. The first 'sequel' to a FF game... and of course SE releases it AFTER Hironobu Sakaguchi leaves SE... This title was more of a fanboy fanfic imo.

Final Fantasy XII
A Star Wars ripoff imo. Pure and simple, though a poor one at that.

Having played them over the many consoles they have been released on, I have noticed (though this may just be me, idk) a lack of quality between some titles either in story or character development etc. Personally, I feel the PS2 generation of FF games are catering only to the Generation Y crowd, what with the pretty graphics and sound. The story of FFX, X-2 and XII to me is flat and lifeless (like a Uwe Boll movie) and there's nothing there to keep me from going back and playing them again.

I know there are some people who love the above titles, and I couldn't care less. Everyone has an opinion and these are just mine. Though I have to admit, the majority of people I have spoken to about the FF series, who state that they love FF, but FFX/XII was the first FF they played and are basing their judgement on those games...

/sigh....

While I agree the story for FFX-2 was total crap, the combat system is pretty damn good.

Also, the new FF13 battle system has gotten my interest.

FF13 Verses better have an evolved combat system too.

Do you like a certain story element or not? Does Golbez, The Emperor, Ex Death, Cloud of Darkness, Kefka, Sephiroth, Ultemecia, Kuja, or Sin scare/anger you most? What draws most at your heart or do you care least about?

You forgot Vayne (but you dont have to remember him).

But there are several things that I believe most here grief about the lack of in FFXII that earlier games possess.

One being weird leads. Cloud was crazy. Squall was broodish (I refuse to use the term emo). Zidane was a light-hearted monkey. Tidus was the adorable kind of idiot. These characters and their surrounding casts made at least half of these games for me. But as for FFXII, there's nothing unique about any of the characters. Maybe Star Wars was just too memorable a series, but the similarities tainted my experience (besides, SE should have had no business trying to knock off such a well known property as Star Wars).

And its not like characters are everything. I felt very little for the cast of FFVI, though they each had their own issues; I was more enraptured with the environment.

@HateRhombus: My issue with FF12 was the lack of a lead.
I mean, who was suppose to be the lead?

First it's Vaan, then it's Bash, then it's the Princess, then its....wtf?

You mean... like FF VI?

:smrt:

FF10 and downwards were the best but ff12 and the new ff12 for the ds and dirge of cerberus were not as good
they changed the battle style which i think ruins the game
any opinions reply to this thread

I agree ive only played ff7,8,10 those r good games i dont like the newer ones i hate the new battle styles when i first tried ff12 i wanted to sell the game bck it got boring once i saw the battle system!

/facepalm

If you base your belief in Square-Enix still being able to make good games on Lost Odyssey, you should know that the game was not developed by S-E at all. The driving force behind it was a company called Mistwalker, which is largely composed of people who left S-E, including Hironobu Sakaguchi, the guy who originally created Final Fantasy. In other words, that game is more of a testament to how much Square has lost than what they're capable of.

Ok that's true, I just checked it out and I deserve a major facepalm.

However, even though my beliefs were false, that doesn't mean I have any less faith in Square Enix making decent games. Final Fantasy XII and Dragon Quest VIII were both made by them and are both personal favorites. The remakes of FFIII and IV on the DS were also made by SE and are great. They haven't lost anything. They've just changed their style and that may be bothering some people, but not me.

And note to self: I really need pay more attention on who made each game...

I agree completely. I liked FFX, but after playing it a second time I realized it was lacking in a lot of areas. I HATED how they made it so you had to use certain characters to kill certain enemies, it made me use characters I hated. For me its also in the story. The newer FF's have had pretty terrible story-lines in my opinion. The political theme of XII was just not my cup of tea. *Sigh* I hope FFXIII has a great story, maybe with a little romance thrown in to, that be nice. And i hope i will actually care for the characters, unlike XII.