Arsenal's invincibles achieved something that probably won't be done again for a very long time and I'm biased with regards to that too. For all out quality though, it'd be United in 1999 or the current United team.

speaking of, they were excellent last night.

ive never seen Rio play so well.

Current Man United side by a country mile. The stuff they're playing, particularly going forward, is immense and almost unplayable.

I'd say 80's Liverpool should be on that list tbh. But like MossY, I'm riddled with bias.

Hmm it seems as though there isn't a need for an explanation into why i chose the current Team. If anybody would like one. Which you probably wont. i'll give one.

Also, i heard an interesting statistic today.


Liverpool have only scored one goal against united, under Benitez. And that was an own goal. It didn't say, but if i remember correctly, it was Wes Brown??


Edit** I checked with my dad, he seems to think it was O'Shea. It doesn't really matter though.

good ole wesley, he scored an own goal while playing against leeds once and it was ruled out for offside, marvellous.

I'd say 80's Liverpool should be on that list tbh. But like MossY, I'm riddled with bias.

Would have loved to see how they would fare in the modern game.

Since there's no Liverpool team in the choices though I suppose I'll have to plump for the current Man u team. The treble winners were nothing special imo, and their champ league final was, somewhat fortuitous, shall we say. The invincibles were really impressive as well, but Ronaldo is quite, quite ridiculous and it would be hard not picking a team he is in.


Edit** I checked with my dad, he seems to think it was O'Shea. It doesn't really matter though.

Your Dad's right, he scored a goal for Man u in that game as well which is the only reason I can remember it. He'll probably get a run of games for united now Vidic seems out for a while.

So. Not what I was expecting at all. Chelsea was a surprise especially.

What a match, 3 - 0. Plus the factor I was there too.

FUCKING YES

rode our luck, again, but who cares? we're in the final. fucking amazing

Congrats Portsmouth.

I would have rather seen West Brom win to be honest, but at least it's not Man Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal, which is one thing to be thankful for.

I'm hoping Barnsley win the other semi and then go down as it would be interesting to see how a League One team gets on in Europe.

Arrhhggg. We really needed a win. But Im glad to leave with a draw there. They could have won it. We should have had a penalty, and near the beginning, Rooney was not offside. But nevermind. We are lucky to have a draw. They could have scored in the last minute.

I still think we are on track for the title. But Chelsea will force it to the death. So we have really got to keep focused. And beat arsenal. If we can do that, it should be safe.


Credit to middlesbrough, they played well. Going there is a hard game for most teams anyway. But they did well.

We'll just have to see what happens.

fix

quite the game that was.

cruel on arsenal but liverpool have this mentality in europe, they never know when to die.

plus, they have torres and senderos was playing for arsenal.

Probably to be expected we'd lose, and given Liverpool's dominance, deserved too. 12 games, 2 wins, 7 draws, 3 defeats. Pathetic.

First 25 minutes, no, less, 15, until the goal, we played magnificently and incisively, and deserved the lead. After that, the tempo dropped and Liverpool began to get into the game, scored, and went from there. We played most of the game from there pressed back in our own half, Liverpool weren't doing an awful lot at times, but they were controlling the game. 3 Liverpool goals came, interspersed by a wonderful contribution from Walcott, and the penalty was fair. We created a few chances here and there, we really ought to have though, so that's not an awfully positive thing.

What was positive was Diaby who I thought played excellently and was replaced only because Arsenal needed to be more potent on the attack. Adebayor, who I don't rate that highly, had a good game too and Walcott's run for the second goal stand out. Clichy, Gallas, Almunia, all solid performances too. Almunia was just unlucky to concede 4 really.

On the negative end, Eboue, Senderos, Fabregas and Hleb. Eboue can't play on the right wing, he can't replace Freddy Ljunberg and at this stage Walcott ought to be fast tracked or someone new bought. Eboue was one of the top young full backs in Europe two years ago and I can't possibly see the wisdom in putting him in the midfield where he game in game out performs abysmally. Senderos doesn't have it at the top level, and you look at Liverpool and they have a superb young defender in Skrtel. Senderos should have gone 2 years ago when it became clear he wasn't good enough, or at the very least relegated to the fringes of the squad, not the guy who comes in every time Toure or Gallas is injured which is every game. Djourou is impressive when he plays, he should overtake Senderos in the pecking order. Furthermore, if Walcott had started on the right, Eboue could have dropped to wing back and Toure in the centre with Gallas so that handicap couldn't cost us two goals, you live and learn.

As for Fabregas and Hleb, for the creative drive of this team, they didn't do an awful lot. I only remember Hleb being fouled and nothing else, and with Fabregas bar a couple of through balls that came to nothing, he was absolutely useless. Realistically, unless the entire team is to be built around Fabregas' passing accuracy, he needs to change too. A wonderful talent no doubt, but compare him to Ronaldo who has a lot more physical presence and a lot more versatility. Fabregas needs to bulk up, improve his defensive game and play higher up the field. Playing from deep weakens the attack. In fairness though, Arsenal always traditionally played with one Vieira and one Fabregas, be it Petit or Gilberto or whoever. Vieira left and he was never replaced with a comparable figure who can protect the defence. Flamini does an alright job, but he's somewhere in the middle between Fabregas and Vieira and that isn't enough. Diaby looks most likely to step up out of the current crop, but he doesn't often impress the way he did tonight.

They need to be able to keep up the tempo with which they opened the game tonight, and although physically demanding, if they want to play with a philosophy, you can't start launching high balls when you get tired.

Players who need to be sold: Hoyte, Senderos, Gilberto, Bendtner. They need to buy two centre backs, Wes Brown on a free would be up there for me, and a left back to cover for Clichy until Traore is physically capable of competing in the Premiership. They need to buy two central midfielders, at least one of which is capable of being the Keane or Vieira figure. A right winger, a left winger; Ben Arfa, Ricardo Quresma. Probably two strikers too, one of which of the calibre of Torres or Henry. Samuel Eto'o wants a move I hear, I'd give him a ring.

All the same, credit to Liverpool, they deserved to win.

EDIT: Forgot about Eduardo. He could be the goalscorer, he looks the part anyway, depends how well he recovers.

Well fuck me if that match hasn't decreased my life expectancy due to massive heart trauma.

What a game. Neither side really deserved to lose, and it's a pity we can't say 'Well, look what these guys gave us over 180 minutes. Let's let them both through and kick out Chelsea and Fenerbache (yet another shocker)'.

Sad the whole penalty/not a penalty issued will dominate the headlines, because the two games deserves more credit than that. Unlucky Arsenal, but yet again Rafa gets it right in Europe. Babel was inspired, and more to the point - fresh. Both he and Walcott looked mustard when they came on.

On to face the Russians toy-chest. 'Ave it!

Probably to be expected we'd lose, and given Liverpool's dominance, deserved too. 12 games, 2 wins, 7 draws, 3 defeats. Pathetic.

First 25 minutes, no, less, 15, until the goal, we played magnificently and incisively, and deserved the lead. After that, the tempo dropped and Liverpool began to get into the game, scored, and went from there. We played most of the game from there pressed back in our own half, Liverpool weren't doing an awful lot at times, but they were controlling the game. 3 Liverpool goals came, interspersed by a wonderful contribution from Walcott, and the penalty was fair. We created a few chances here and there, we really ought to have though, so that's not an awfully positive thing.

What was positive was Diaby who I thought played excellently and was replaced only because Arsenal needed to be more potent on the attack. Adebayor, who I don't rate that highly, had a good game too and Walcott's run for the second goal stand out. Clichy, Gallas, Almunia, all solid performances too. Almunia was just unlucky to concede 4 really.

On the negative end, Eboue, Senderos, Fabregas and Hleb. Eboue can't play on the right wing, he can't replace Freddy Ljunberg and at this stage Walcott ought to be fast tracked or someone new bought. Eboue was one of the top young full backs in Europe two years ago and I can't possibly see the wisdom in putting him in the midfield where he game in game out performs abysmally. Senderos doesn't have it at the top level, and you look at Liverpool and they have a superb young defender in Skrtel. Senderos should have gone 2 years ago when it became clear he wasn't good enough, or at the very least relegated to the fringes of the squad, not the guy who comes in every time Toure or Gallas is injured which is every game. Djourou is impressive when he plays, he should overtake Senderos in the pecking order. Furthermore, if Walcott had started on the right, Eboue could have dropped to wing back and Toure in the centre with Gallas so that handicap couldn't cost us two goals, you live and learn.

As for Fabregas and Hleb, for the creative drive of this team, they didn't do an awful lot. I only remember Hleb being fouled and nothing else, and with Fabregas bar a couple of through balls that came to nothing, he was absolutely useless. Realistically, unless the entire team is to be built around Fabregas' passing accuracy, he needs to change too. A wonderful talent no doubt, but compare him to Ronaldo who has a lot more physical presence and a lot more versatility. Fabregas needs to bulk up, improve his defensive game and play higher up the field. Playing from deep weakens the attack. In fairness though, Arsenal always traditionally played with one Vieira and one Fabregas, be it Petit or Gilberto or whoever. Vieira left and he was never replaced with a comparable figure who can protect the defence. Flamini does an alright job, but he's somewhere in the middle between Fabregas and Vieira and that isn't enough. Diaby looks most likely to step up out of the current crop, but he doesn't often impress the way he did tonight.

They need to be able to keep up the tempo with which they opened the game tonight, and although physically demanding, if they want to play with a philosophy, you can't start launching high balls when you get tired.

Players who need to be sold: Hoyte, Senderos, Gilberto, Bendtner. They need to buy two centre backs, Wes Brown on a free would be up there for me, and a left back to cover for Clichy until Traore is physically capable of competing in the Premiership. They need to buy two central midfielders, at least one of which is capable of being the Keane or Vieira figure. A right winger, a left winger; Ben Arfa, Ricardo Quresma. Probably two strikers too, one of which of the calibre of Torres or Henry. Samuel Eto'o wants a move I hear, I'd give him a ring.

All the same, credit to Liverpool, they deserved to win.

EDIT: Forgot about Eduardo. He could be the goalscorer, he looks the part anyway, depends how well he recovers.

I think you're being pretty harsh in a lot of spots. Lets see..

Adebayor had very little help, he's had an excellent season and is still young, and he's progressed very well. I'd stick with him.

Eboue is completely awful, and a contemptible prick to boot. He contributes nothing on the right wing, get rid.

Senderos: Always been rubbish. Arsenal need a reall quality centre back. Richard Dunne would be ideal. He would give Arsenal the presence and leadership and takes responsilty and attacks the ball.

Hleb: He was disappointing, but he's had a great season.

Fabregas: Needed to be rested weeks ago, he's had a long and gruelling season and he's out on his feet.

Flamini: The balance of the game changed when he got injured. Hmmm.

The last number of games have shown how short the Arsenal squad is, and Wenger made a serious error not adding to it. But I wouldnt consider this season a failure by any means, they've played wonderful football, lots of players have improved immeasurably, and 3 seasons without a pot is hardly a disaster( Barca are going to go 2 seasons without a pot and they are a much bigger club then Arsenal, for example)

As for Liverpool, they just have this remarkable winning spirit and in a player like Torres, someone who is truly world-class and can turn a game in a nano-second.

And I hope they crush the Russian Cockneys.

Guys, Please don't hurt me but I confess I didn't watch the game. I was in the middle of Karazhan. :-X :sad:

The Cups coming back to Wales you know it.

Manchester to win today

jam, honestly. ; ;

no real surprises but we really looked the better team from what i saw, oh well!

Oh Yes!!!! Roll on the chelsea!!!!

That freekick was awesome!. Rooney had a bad game. But it doesnt matter.

harsh, harsh result. Arsenal played the better football and looked the better side.

feel espically bad for Clichy, best player on the pitch by miles(other then Van De Saar). he was truly awesome. Fabregas and Hleb played well too and Song did pretty decent.

what the hell was Gallas doing though?

Sucking like usual.

The Cups coming back to Wales you know it.

Would be good for Wales if that happened, though cardiff will miss out on uefa cup regardless, I thought.


harsh, harsh result. Arsenal played the better football and looked the better side.

feel espically bad for Clichy, best player on the pitch by miles(other then Van De Saar). he was truly awesome. Fabregas and Hleb played well too and Song did pretty decent.

what the hell was Gallas doing though?

Watched the game as a neutral with my manc housem8 and manc brother, and I have to disagree with Arsenal being better. Despite the aforementioned pairs bias, I could pretty much agree with most of what they were saying, that apart from the Adebayor 1 on 1's Arsenal didn't seem to threaten much. Clichy was very, very good I have to agree with that, but I'm not sure what fabregas did. Think the seasons been too long for him, Arsenal don't look the same team they use to.

Hargreaves goal was quality, could tell the entire Arsenal team were waiting for Ronaldo to smash it, then he delicately placed it over.

Sucking like usual.

Is this in reference to Gallas? He is a fantastic defender man, him and Toure are a great partnership but they always get interrupted by injuries.

Mossy, is that you in your avatar?

It is Jesse James as depicted by Brad Pitt, sorry.

Oh dang!

Ps. I will be purchasing that dvd this week.

looks like chelsea are out of the title race, oh well, theres always champions league (and if jose couldnt do that, i dont see how avram will, using the same tactics and etc iykwim)

They were my go to German team on one of the old championship managers, back when they had Mpenza and Ebbe Sand up front iirc. World class strike force in game, only seen them a few times on tv but they seemed pretty decent. Mpenza's at Man city now but can't say I've seen him do much apart from a nice headed goal, forget the opposition though.

Yep, I doubt even the staunchest of Italian supporters could deny the level of diving that takes place, it's just a pity it has crept into the premiership a la the latest episode - Yakubu on the weekend. Could probably name a dozen more if I wasn't under the influence, but it's still pretty annoying seeing it happen more and more. As for banshee screaming at the referee he probably learnt all he could from John 'The Captain of England' Terry - he seems quite adept at it. Good to see Fiorentina winning I still got an old shirt with Batistuta on so it's nice to see another old boy Vieri getting in on the goals.

There's no denying qualifiers and such will always be more interesting and important, but right before we beat Italy in euro 2004 2-1, we had played one of these 'meaningless' friendlies against Germany and managed to beat them 1-0. Now Wales don't often win against big teams so perhaps the confidence from beating Germany meant for our next home game we stood more of a chance. Still, it's probably incomparable to the situation for the England national team, but for Wales a good result is a good result eb it friendly or not.

schalke 02/03 and 03/04 were indeed fucking top.

i think personally diving is merely symptomatic of the increased level of televisual surveillance; outright violence and crippling 'tactical' fouls are too obvious as opposed to sneaky dives and playacting and besides with the amount of money and reputation involved nowadays players are pressed to win by any and all means so diving has crept into the game, it's just really sickening when it's so shameless and blatant, in the case of the latin and south american boys

that's the only place where i would personally see friendlies worth the fuss of a competitive match - poland beat italy 3 1 a few years back and that's now seen as one of the best victories in their history, even though it was just a friendly.


double post, but an interesting topic on Football365:

Which is the best side to play in the Premier League?
Cantona-era ManYoo
The treble winners
Arsenal's Invincibles
Jose's Chelski
This current ManYoo side

Discuss:

i don't remember enough of cantona's old man u, but the treble winners, as driven and spectacular in victory as they were, nicked the title in dramatic fashion if i remember correctly as opposed to dominating, and were also lucky in the CL final, great side all the same. jose's chelsea will never win a poll like this because of all the diving, being the first stratospherically funded prem team, all the controversy, lack of an outstanding goalscorer etc. but they deserve their place in the list. the invincibles were irresistable, but i'd say they'd be pipped by the current united squad, just because last season they were outstanding and a complete team in every way, and they've only gone and improved on that significantly this season in every way. they deserve the premiership, as much as it pains me to say it.


OK, let's try again. What game will San Marino learn more from? Getting humped 9-0 by Italy or drawing 1-1 with Liechtenstein?

As for ticket prices, they vary with the FA, tbh. I remember Wales friendlies being �7 for an adult ticket a few years ago which is terrific value, esp. when you consider how overpriced the Premiership is.

Also:

Yay for MK Dons. Screw what others think, they deserve that trophy if only for all the shtick they get from fans of other clubs. I mean God forbid they might stop a football club from folding, what terrible savagery of the beautiful game etc.

i was agreeing with you, you know, my only real complaint is the fuss lended to the occasion and the ticket prices being brought more in line with the events' significance.

and MK dons were moved to MK, which is unacceptably crass and dismissive of the fans who funded the club prior to the move, i say the owners at least deserve all the shit they get.


LARGE AND FAIR REVIEW OF LIVERPOOL GAME

it was a fantastic tie. the positives you can take from that game are the fact that they didn't give up, walcott's run - i gasped when he did that, it was comparable to maradona's in my opinion, and the final pass was well judged as well - and the flair. but your season has completely collapsed, unfortunately. for the standard of football and the faithful adherence to skill and flair i thought you deserved at least one trophy, despite my hatred for the club and the disgusting petulance they sometimes exhibit.

senderos is something like stepanovs and cygan for me, the comedy player but one who obviously has some ability and skill and who is relied on and stuck with because of wenger's particularly bond based man management style - he doesn't have a revolving door, he prefers to give a player enough chances to tease the obvious potential out. hleb was dire until this season, for example; many other managers would have shunted him out before now. it's an admirable style, but also one that gives plenty of joy to opponents.


On to face the Russians toy-chest. 'Ave it!

yet again! second leg at stamford bridge, fuckin ave it! lets hope it's a good tie for a change.


And I hope they crush the Russian Cockneys.

no one likes us, we don't care


Would be good for Wales if that happened, though cardiff will miss out on uefa cup regardless, I thought.

UEFA will step in and give cardiff the UEFA cup spot if they do pompey, i believe, and rightly so


It is Jesse James as depicted by Brad Pitt, sorry.

fucking great film! slow burner but compelling and intriguingly acted, great characterisation


looks like chelsea are out of the title race, oh well, theres always champions league (and if jose couldnt do that, i dont see how avram will, using the same tactics and etc iykwim)

avram is a friend and probably business partner or ally of abramovich's, it's the only reason he got the job, and he inherited a team who had become jose's army as it were, and they weren't too happy about the antagonisation and politics and agendas that forced jose out, and while they've continued to play their own style of game henk cen tate who's an authoritarian bastard and avram i-make-big-sam-look-like-a-spring-chicken have ploughed in and with little agreement and tactical acumen have fucked up the side. i wouldn't be surprised if avram stayed in charge though, barring a unanimous player strike. of course drogba and a few others are bound to be off as soon as the transfer window opens anyway. i for one wouldn't be sad if lampard fucked off; the only players i'm keen to see remain at the bridge are cech, carlo, alex, bridge, maka, essien, joe cole and possibly kalou and swp. they're the only ones who've put in the graft this season, and if they leave then the side will either freefall or become a galactico retirement home as it's threatened to in recent seasons anyway without much in the way of inspiration or drive.

best game in the whole portugeuse championship last night.

Too bad we lost 5-3, but still. Kick ass game, this reminded me why I'm a fan of football, and I was lucky enough to go to the stadium.

schalke 02/03 and 03/04 were indeed fucking top.

i think personally diving is merely symptomatic of the increased level of televisual surveillance; outright violence and crippling 'tactical' fouls are too obvious as opposed to sneaky dives and playacting and besides with the amount of money and reputation involved nowadays players are pressed to win by any and all means so diving has crept into the game, it's just really sickening when it's so shameless and blatant, in the case of the latin and south american boys


Retrospectively, the FA should be able to actually review cases of diving and act accordingly. I understand the need to give the ref an almost absolute power in order to control the game, but blatant diving should be punished by a committee of some sort. It's actually shocking the level to which some footballers dive to get penalties/people carded.


UEFA will step in and give cardiff the UEFA cup spot if they do pompey, i believe, and rightly so

It would be good for Wales if Cardiff can cause an upset. Would be fairly amusing seeing how they fair in Europe as well.

I think they'd go out at the first round, like Millwall did. Depends on where they start really, I recall Millwall had a bye through the qualifying rounds.

2 days til judgement day.
I'll have my doors shut and a shotgun out the window, don't any mackems running wild on the streets although Newcastle will surely conquer them.

looks like chelsea are back in the title race

will Man U lose 2 of their next 3 games?

No.

Yeah, Chelsea's vastly inferior goal difference still basically rules them out. I don't even think they'll beat United at Stamford bridge anyway, so.

COME ON!!!
2-0 The Toon, Mackem bastards didn't know what hit them!

Liverpool should have scored more goals 2nite but you still have to make them favourites.

Scratch that. away goal. Liverpool are fucked.

bollocks

:(

should have got more. if you don't take your chances, you don't deserve the luck.

i fucking hate chelsea though. drogba, 6'3'' of pace and power falling about like a school girl. but i guess it's their turn to have the luck this year.

also, jim beglin is a biased mick cunt

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/04/02/ufgcham102.xml

I lol'd

i cant believe Ronny didnt score that pen.

Barca have been so good, no end product though.

We are lucky to leave that game at 0-0

They outplayed us all night. The only thing i can say to defend united, is that we should have had more than one penalty. The referee just didn't want to give it. For obvious reasons.

I hope Anderson is still injured, because that game was crying out for him to come on. Why he didn't is beyond me.

64% percent possession for them. 36% for us. And id wager that 5% of ours was in their half.

Abysmal performance.

We were owned all over the field.

Though they didnt have too many clear cut chances, they created more than us.

But, that aside. I think we will do them at Old Trafford. Vidic will hopefully be back. So, we'll see.

zero cutting edge.

also, i think ferguson set up his team to play for 0-0, and seeing how good the Man Yoo defence is, not a terrible strategy.

ronaldo was a disgrace though. dunphy might have gone over the top, but there was some truth in what he said.

lawl ()

haha...



Also, Horrible first half. If i see kalou on the deck again today, I'm gonna hit something. Drogba ( the player i despise the most in the world) The big daft pudding, is being a twat as usual. lol, at fletcher hitting him.

Nani...what the fuck? If ronaldo isn't out for the second half. I'll cry.

This is looking bad overall.

Fucking shiting twating hell.

Nani had the worst game i have ever seen. He had tons of chances to make a through ball that could have resulted in a goal. Idiot.

Im not sure about that penalty. We maybe should have had one.

Horrible result. :(



Now, we should beat Wigan and West Ham. But our record against west ham is pretty bad. They did the double on us last season. But at the same time, if we cant win those two games, then it kind of says we shouldn't be champions.

Either way, its going to be a really nervous couple of weeks.

Another thing. What the fuck was Drogba doing, he should be fined some of his wages for that. It was like watching a small child.

meh, we should still win the title even if its goal diff, we had an eye on the Barca game so we god damn better win that!

happy chelsea won and i hope they take the premiership tbh

i hope man u win based on the fact that they, at least, play proper football all the time and aren't chelsea.

well i do prefer man utd's actual team. but like in terms of what they are united are just like chelsea only ten times worse, except for some reason united fans actually complain that chelsea bought the leuage which is odd imo.

i hope they both get found guilty of match fixing and relegated forever, tbh.

picking between them is like chosing if you want AIDS of the Ebola virus.

But, chelsea are a fucking joke.

Their players are all way to full of themselves. They tell the management what happens. Plus, Abramovich runs the club. If he says a player should play or be bought, it happens. The manager should have full control of who he buys/plays

The biggest Ego at united is Ferguson. Thats why the team is so disciplined. What Drogba did today is a prime example. Same as Arsenal.

I know that players at United are guilty of a few of the things I'm talking about, but its not as bad. By a long way.

Ferguson doesnt take shit from anybody. Beckham got too big for his boots, and out he went.

Plus, chelsea are a bunch of whining cheating bastards. Drogba is the player I hate most in the world. A full blown wanker.

yes, and united are completely innocent and free of divers, cheaters and general whingers.....

also, speaking of players full of themselves. Ronaldo? Nani?

I know that players at United are guilty of a few of the things I'm talking about, but its not as bad. By a long way.


*sigh*

Also, if you want me to go into more detail. I will. Just say the word.

you still tried to distance them from any wrong doing in the last part of that statement. or at least try and take a 'holier then thou' attitude to it.

take off your rose tinted glasses. every single team in the league cheats, dives and then moans about things that went against them. the league stinks of hypocrisy and bullshit.

its quite sad that a man u fan is moaning about it, frankly.

I said they are guilty of it. Just not on the same level as Chelsea or Arsenal.

When Arsenal drew to Wigan ( i think it was them) and Gallas sat on the pitch crying, and sulking, if that had been Wayne Rooney or Ronaldo. You think Ferguson would have walked over and patted either of them on the head? A teams captain, spitting his dummy out and looking as though they had lost it already. Not a good thing to happen.

Another example. Why is Shevchenko there? Because the Russian gangster wanker who owns the club said so. Thats not a football club. The time when Abramovich went into the dressing room after a game, and got Shevchenko to translate to Essien while he gave him a bollocking. Why the fuck should essien, a great, world class player, have to take that kind of shit.

Abramovich doesnt know jack shit about managing a football team. Then, you have that incident today. Drogba and ballack arguing over the free kick. Thats just looked pathetic. The same kind of thing went on with Hargreaves and Ronaldo a bit later, and what happened? Giggs walked over and made the descison. That was it, final. You think drogba would listen if terry had have done that? I dont think so.

if anything that sort of professionalism is what is so dull about united.

moneyfarm. well, i know the other top teams are, too. united are the worst, though~

also i dont think crying at the end of a match has much to do with egos and such =O

I remember Arsenal and Chelsea had a big bash at Christmas and were accused of rape.

I remember the time Gallas lay on a pitch in tears and got up and karate kicked a guy in the face.

I remember the time C. Ronaldo never dived. Ever.

I remember the time Vitor Baia pretended he got stood on his back by Roy Keane.

I remember the time the Glazer's were different to Abramovich in some drastic sense, other than that Chelsea haven't incurred massive debt.

They're all the fucking same, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Reading, MK Dons. Especially United. It's all subjective wank man, I don't know what you are even saying.

Haha..Mossy. You should read my post then. Its pretty clear. It is to do with football..not the stuff that happens outside the stadium.

And if you had read it properly. You would have seen, on numerous occasions, that i said United were gulity of some of these things. Try reading it first.

Aw fuck off. Professionalism extends beyond the pitch and at any rate most of the things I said are on field. And since your main gripes about Chelsea are about Abramovich, he sort of constitutes off the field, in my narrow mind anyway.

You are like some sort of fundamentalist Christian, what the fuck man?

You already said you dont want to debate it. Yet you still posted again.

I do not think that United are guilt free in all of this!!

Plus, we are talking about this in chat. So I will continue there.

Alright, before I go to sleep I will reply properly. Seeing as I am not allowed to discuss off field matters, I think it is only fair you can't either, although it is ridiculous to say professionalism stops after 90 minutes:


I said they are guilty of it. Just not on the same level as Chelsea or Arsenal.

When Arsenal drew to Wigan ( i think it was them) and Gallas sat on the pitch crying, and sulking, if that had been Wayne Rooney or Ronaldo. You think Ferguson would have walked over and patted either of them on the head? A teams captain, spitting his dummy out and looking as though they had lost it already. Not a good thing to happen.

Another example. Why is Shevchenko there? Because the Russian gangster wanker who owns the club said so. Thats not a football club. The time when Abramovich went into the dressing room after a game, and got Shevchenko to translate to Essien while he gave him a bollocking. Why the fuck should essien, a great, world class player, have to take that kind of shit.

Abramovich doesnt know jack shit about managing a football team. Then, you have that incident today. Drogba and ballack arguing over the free kick. Thats just looked pathetic. The same kind of thing went on with Hargreaves and Ronaldo a bit later, and what happened? Giggs walked over and made the descison. That was it, final. You think drogba would listen if terry had have done that? I dont think so.

First of all, I think your argument is based on an absurd idea that somehow United being less guilty makes them better. Not that United are less guilty anyway, of course, but a murderer is a murderer, you don't have to be Harold Shipman.

Keeping it strictly on the field though, you raised the example of Nistelrooy's penalty miss in 2003, when he hit the bar, and the reaction of the Arsenal players. I agree that what happened was unacceptable, but then again, at least a half dozen Arsenal players were subsequently fined, banned or both. Furthermore, in a rivalry as intense as that, expecting that a penalty miss by either team in the last minute of stoppage time would not be greeted with jubilation from the opponents is ridiculous.

Niklas Bendtner and Adebayor had an on field altercation in the Carling cup, Adebayor was fined for headbutting Bendtner. A similar example, and one I know Minty is fond of, is Euro 2004 when Ronaldo apparently contrived to have Rooney sent off. Well, I will not comment on that, but the fact that two supposedly professional team mates and friends would be trying to have one another sent off in the quarter finals of the most prestigious international football tournament (too much shit qualifies for the World Cup) says something in my mind.

Rooney and Ferguson routinely assault the officials when a decision goes against them. So does Wenger, Benitez, Grant, Ramos, everybody. Actually one of the few who doesn't is Kevin Keegan, but he's a really decent guy. Rooney is particularly vocal though, and I'm sure you'll accept that. I think video refereeing should be introduced and for time to only pass when the ball is in play too, but that is a separate issue.

Cristiano Ronaldo routinely dives, to the extent where his reputation sees him not gaining kicks for the legitimate fouls. So does Alexander Hleb, so does Fernando Torres, so does Didier Drogba.

On Gallas crying on the field, and Wenger patting him on the head or whatever, do you realistically expect Ferguson to have acted otherwise? What manager would retire to the dressing room and leave a player on the field in the full glare of the stadium and the media. He was captain, yes, and Wenger has more or less stated he will strip him of that role for next season.

Other things are Keane's ending of Haaland's career, stamping on Vitor Baia's back and Cantona's kick in the face of a fan. Those are serious examples of indiscipline, more serious in my mind than Nistlerooy being goaded a bit by a few Arsenal players seeing as none of them inflicted serious bodily harm, unless you count Lauren stroking him in the ribs as severe? Keane didnt go until he spoke out against the young players, and probably rightly so, and Cantona was there for years later too. I'm not saying Ferguson isn't the biggest ego there, but to claim he is somehow in total control is wrong. Look at Wenger, I mean, he's gotten rid of Vieira, Henry and Pires over the past few seasons. They are, in my view, Arsenal's three greatest players of recent times and Wenger was absolutely right to get rid of every one of them. How is Wenger not in control of that team? Avram Grant's say is questionable, but seeing as that takes in to account off field matters, it's a null point in this debate. I know this point is null before I make it, but at no point has Wenger, Grant, Mourinho, Houllier, Benitez, Keegan, Robson, Ranieri, Moyes or anyone else that immediately comes to mind, kicked a boot at one of his players heads. If I recall, that breakdown had more to do with Beckham's departure than did any factor involving Beckham becoming too big for his boots.

I am not trying to bring this back to Arsenal- because I am trying to divert away from making the same argument as you are on their behalf, all teams are exactly the same- but they just so happen to be an interesting example. Most fouled, least foul committing team in the league. Consistently one of the best teams on the fair play table. If they really are is in-disciplined and as stroppy and out of control as you say, I very much doubt that those statistics would exist.

If the argument gave credence to the fact that professionalism exists off field too, I could give further examples of United's sameness relative to everyone. I won't, out of respect for absurd, arbitrary debating criteria, but I do think most people recognise the fact anyway. It's natural after a disappointing result to claim that the referee gave all the wrong decisions, that their players are all cheaters and divers, that their manager is a wino, that their owner is an autocrat, whatever, but to subsequently claim and maintain that your team isn't, or at least not as much in the same category, is, well, wrong.

Anyway, I have to get up for work in the morning and I want to listen to LCD Soundsystem before I go to bed, but I am definitely happy to continue this debate tomorrow so long as you aren't going to be as fundamentalist about it.

Keeping it strictly on the field though, you raised the example of Nistelrooy's penalty miss in 2003, when he hit the bar, and the reaction of the Arsenal players. I agree that what happened was unacceptable, but then again, at least a half dozen Arsenal players were subsequently fined, banned or both. Furthermore, in a rivalry as intense as that, expecting that a penalty miss by either team in the last minute of stoppage time would not be greeted with jubilation from the opponents is ridiculous.

That doesnt give them the right to go up to a man and berate him like they did. Martin Keown's face still haunts me. And even if the players were fined/banned, it was still out of order. Im not saying that they shouldn't have celebrated. But showing jubilation in that way is just disgusting.



Niklas Bendtner and Adebayor had an on field altercation in the Carling cup, Adebayor was fined for headbutting Bendtner. A similar example, and one I know Minty is fond of, is Euro 2004 when Ronaldo apparently contrived to have Rooney sent off. Well, I will not comment on that, but the fact that two supposedly professional team mates and friends would be trying to have one another sent off in the quarter finals of the most prestigious international football tournament (too much shit qualifies for the World Cup) says something in my mind.

I don't really know what your point is with this. But I'll acknowledge it anyway. I don't think Rooney was trying to get Ronaldo sent off. It was rooneys stamping on carvalho that got him sent off. Ronaldo was accused of flaming the situation. (the infamous wink). And rooney pushed him, but i still think he was going to walk anyway.




Rooney and Ferguson routinely assault the officials when a decision goes against them. So does Wenger, Benitez, Grant, Ramos, everybody. Actually one of the few who doesn't is Kevin Keegan, but he's a really decent guy. Rooney is particularly vocal though, and I'm sure you'll accept that. I think video refereeing should be introduced and for time to only pass when the ball is in play too, but that is a separate issue.

This is true. And I have said on many occasions that the way Rooney swears at the officials is despicable. But this is one of the huge problems football has. Its one of the things that rugby is better for. I remember back in 2003, the rugby world cup final. England were ahead, with very little time left to play. And a controversial decision , the type that is 50-50, was given. In favour of Australia. It could have meant the loss of the match, and i will always remember lawrence dellaigo's expression. It was like, ahh well, can twin them all, and he shrugged it off. The chances of seeing that in a football final are very low. But that's just something i don't like about the sport anyway.




Cristiano Ronaldo routinely dives, to the extent where his reputation sees him not gaining kicks for the legitimate fouls. So does Alexander Hleb, so does Fernando Torres, so does Didier Drogba.

I said this to you in chat. Ronaldo's diving has decreased alot recently. I don't think you can argue with that. But nevertheless, he has gained a reputation which has put him in a position where he cant even get his legs broken without it being labeled as a dive. Its his own fault. But he has worked on it alot recently. Drogba on the other hand, he is one of Chelsea's biggest players and he falls over like he has been shot all the time. Its ridiculous the amount of times he is seen on the deck. Whilst I'm on this subject. I think it showed true sportsman ship from Eto the other night. If he had gone down, Rio would have been sent off, and they would have had a penalty.





On Gallas crying on the field, and Wenger patting him on the head or whatever, do you realistically expect Ferguson to have acted otherwise? What manager would retire to the dressing room and leave a player on the field in the full glare of the stadium and the media. He was captain, yes, and Wenger has more or less stated he will strip him of that role for next season.


To be frank. I don't think that would be an issue for United. The players wouldn't think of doing it. Thats the way he has shaped them. And if they did, id like to think that Ferguson would have plenty to say about it.



Other things are Keane's ending of Haaland's career, stamping on Vitor Baia's back and Cantona's kick in the face of a fan. Those are serious examples of indiscipline, more serious in my mind than Nistlerooy being goaded a bit by a few Arsenal players seeing as none of them inflicted serious bodily harm, unless you count Lauren stroking him in the ribs as severe?

I don't condone any of those things. Some of Keane's comments in his book really tainted my opinion of him. But I have talked about this before.



Keane didn't go until he spoke out against the young players, and probably rightly so, and Cantona was there for years later too. I'm not saying Ferguson isn't the biggest ego there, but to claim he is somehow in total control is wrong. Look at Wenger, I mean, he's gotten rid of Vieira, Henry and Pires over the past few seasons. They are, in my view, Arsenal's three greatest players of recent times and Wenger was absolutely right to get rid of every one of them. How is Wenger not in control of that team? Avram Grant's say is questionable, but seeing as that takes in to account off field matters, it's a null point in this debate. I know this point is null before I make it, but at no point has Wenger, Grant, Mourinho, Houllier, Benitez, Keegan, Robson, Ranieri, Moyes or anyone else that immediately comes to mind, kicked a boot at one of his players heads. If I recall, that breakdown had more to do with Beckham's departure than did any factor involving Beckham becoming too big for his boots.

I was mainly refering to Chelsea with the control thing. But still, Arsenals players act too childish sometimes for my liking. Their attitude when they are on the back foot stinks.

Also, the Beckham thing
That happened behind pretty well closed doors. So I don't think we will ever know exactly what happened. But beckham had been pissing the club about, with one thing and another. And he went. He was an important player at United, and he was gotten rid of with simplicity. An example of Ferguson's attitude.



I am not trying to bring this back to Arsenal- because I am trying to divert away from making the same argument as you are on their behalf, all teams are exactly the same- but they just so happen to be an interesting example. Most fouled, least foul committing team in the league. Consistently one of the best teams on the fair play table. If they really are is in-disciplined and as stroppy and out of control as you say, I very much doubt that those statistics would exist.

Fair enough. But we know that statistics don't always show the full picture when it comes to football. We got a draw on Wednesday. I don't think that's how the game should have ended.


If the argument gave credence to the fact that professionalism exists off field too, I could give further examples of United's sameness relative to everyone. I won't, out of respect for absurd, arbitrary debating criteria, but I do think most people recognise the fact anyway. It's natural after a disappointing result to claim that the referee gave all the wrong decisions, that their players are all cheaters and divers, that their manager is a wino, that their owner is an autocrat, whatever, but to subsequently claim and maintain that your team isn't, or at least not as much in the same category, is, well, wrong.

I pay money to watch my team play football. I don't care if john O'shea is a shirt lifter for example, as long as he does his job on the field. They shouldn't allow the things that happened off field to become public. But that's how it is.
But I agree with you that professionalism goes beyond that of the pitch. Fair point.



Anyway, I have to get up for work in the morning and I want to listen to LCD Soundsystem before I go to bed, but I am definitely happy to continue this debate tomorrow so long as you aren't going to be as fundamentalist about it.

I think i have said all i want to say. If you disagree then Im happy to continue. But Im not sure how much we will get out of it.

every single team in the league cheats, dives and then moans about things that went against them. the league stinks of hypocrisy and bullshit.




this statement basically covers everything.

Haha oh man. Remember when this happened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcpFXOsrY8&feature=related

Keano owns.



Also, thoughts on the game tonight people?..

Id say if they score at all we'll be in trouble. I hope Vidic and Rooney are playing, but it doesnt sound good. But it could just be fergie doing his usual.

Anyway, we need an early goal to take the stuffing out of them. And hope we can hold on. Its going to be a great game to watch albeit an nerve racking one

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/29/manchesterunited.chelsea

bit rich, coming from them, n'est pas?

So far so good.


Nani? Nani? What is god's name? Anybody else would have put that header away.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/7370698.stm

also ridiculous

YES!!!!! WE ARE HEADING TO MOSCOW!!!


Park was great. The Defense was solid. Ronaldo and Tevez didn't cause to many problems up front, but they worked like cunts around the field.

Thoroughly deserved win!

Park was alright, Brown was magnificent. I think though, that over 180 minutes, Man United were thoroughly outclassed but Barca played with no end product. That team will be dismantled in the summer and Rijkaard will be out the door, he isn't a good manager so, that's good for them. No doubting United's resilience, and maybe if Rooney and Vidic had been available they could have been more adventurous, then again, Brown had the game of his life, so maybe Vidic's absence was advantageous in that sense. Scholes' goal was a cracker though.

Yeah, the whole defense played well. My love for Evra grows each game. And Brown was solid. Rio played great aswell.

I think Park is a great player for us. His work rate is amazing. And Tevez, the little scrapper.

They did play well. But we managed to hold them. They were running at the goal alot, but not making any decisive passes or movements. I was a little scared by Henry's header. But we stuck it out. And I think we deserved to go through.


Also, sorry to Top Cat for not acknowledging his links. I was more interested in the game. I'll take a look now.

Yeah, I do agree with you for the most part. Barca lacked direction in the attack, bar Messi really, and there's only so many men he could take it around.

i honestly couldnt give a shite tbh.

man utd wanted it more and battled like lions so good for them i guess. incredible strike by Scholes too.

also, brown picked a damn good game to put in the performance of his life.

I thought iniesta was pretty good, too!

at least a pretty entertaining match, unlike the last one. was rather hoping united would lose, but oh well. if it is a liverpool united final i will probably not watch. well. i probably will, but i won't care much.

if Man U played like that in the EPL, 100% passion to the game and pure focus instead of their typical "dive, dirty tackle" regimes, I'd respect them a lot more, but have to say, what a performance. Proved they can fight without the power of Rooney.
Now, I still really want to see Ferguson get punched in the face despite all this. My pride as a fan of "another" club fan still remains, so I'll say this.
GAAN SHITE!

I thought iniesta was pretty good, too!

at least a pretty entertaining match, unlike the last one. was rather hoping united would lose, but oh well. if it is a liverpool united final i will probably not watch. well. i probably will, but i won't care much.

It was entertaining because it was so edgy, there wasn't a fantastic amount of skillz on show.

if Man U played like that in the EPL, 100% passion to the game and pure focus instead of their typical "dive, dirty tackle" regimes

what football games do you watch? when have you ever heard Man Utd called a dirty side?

if Man U played like that in the EPL, 100% passion to the game and pure focus instead of their typical "dive, dirty tackle" regimes, I'd respect them a lot more, but have to say, what a performance. Proved they can fight without the power of Rooney.
Now, I still really want to see Ferguson get punched in the face despite all this. My pride as a fan of "another" club fan still remains, so I'll say this.
GAAN SHITE!


:confused:

Also, 1-0..Looking interesting.

Wow..an amazing game. So much to talk about. I felt Liverpool should have had a penalty themselves. Babel's strike was awesome. Both teams played well. I feel bad for Liverpool. And i wanted to play them in the final rather than Chelsea.

I lol'd at Avram Grant kneeling on the floor. I really want to wipe the smile of JT's face.

Anyway, now we go to Moscow!

id rather play Chelsea cos its hard for machester fans to lose to liverpool any time, never mind the final

Yeah, but if we beat them. They couldn't really use the "five times" excuse anymore. Well, they could, but it wouldn't have the same effect. However, if we lost, it would be hard to mock a Liverpool fan in anyway. So that's a plus side of playing chelsea instead.

But im not going to dwell on what could have been. Bring on the cockneys!

fucking chelsea

wonderful, the two most despicible teams in england make the final.

ill be sure to be glued to the tv screen. not.

Bryan will watch the game...he knows he will.





































Hey Bryan!

I'd prefer to see Chelsea win the double because it'd be hilarious if Avram Grant accomplished more in his first season than Jose Mourinho did in any of his, especially after his tabloid treatment over the past season. The Saturday Sport had a particularly funny piece on him last week, I was in stitches at work.

i just dont find chelsea all that detestable, really.

I wanted a Barcelona - Liverpool final, so I'm disappointed. I think Chelsea will win the CL but to be honest I don't really care. The only way I would have been interested would have been if Barca had been there and there might have been a chance to see the pro-Premiership brigade eat their words. But it wasn't to be, so I probably either won't watch the final or will switch off at half-time if it gets boring.

I think in terms of sheer quality of the teams, right now, the pro-Premiership brigade are right. But when you take into account the vastly more attractive playing style of La Liga, the fact tickets are so expensive fans can no longer go to see games, that no top players are home grown, the Premiership loses out massively.

Retrospectively, the FA should be able to actually review cases of diving and act accordingly. I understand the need to give the ref an almost absolute power in order to control the game, but blatant diving should be punished by a committee of some sort. It's actually shocking the level to which some footballers dive to get penalties/people carded.

It would be good for Wales if Cardiff can cause an upset. Would be fairly amusing seeing how they fair in Europe as well.

yes, retrospective reffing, great idea, not viable or expected while blatter and his crew run the game with their archaic standpoint but definitely one for the backburner and an idea that a lot of people probably want to see happen anyway.

and if cardiff beat the wonderful pompey somehow, then a euro jaunt would indeed be amusing, the funny thing is i can see them winning a few ties before they got knocked, most of the smaller leagues around europe are made up of clubs trying to tackle a financial crisis, a crumbling stadium, a hooligan problem, or a disjointed band of foreigners brought in by a clueless investor who bought the club expecting to do an ambramovich. sweeping generalisation of course but it's surprising how true it is for as many clubs as it is in this day of football.


Scratch that. away goal. Liverpool are fucked.

i LOL'd until i couldn't breathe. riise's been bankrupted after the hotel business he built off his liverpool wages crashed and burned, his payslip got posted on a forum last year, he scores for us rather then fucking us with a screamer for once, AND he's a fucking ginge.


Im not sure about that penalty. We maybe should have had one.

for all those motherfucking dodgy decisions that have gone your way over the last 2 decades, that was fucking justice.


well i do prefer man utd's actual team. but like in terms of what they are united are just like chelsea only ten times worse, except for some reason united fans actually complain that chelsea bought the leuage which is odd imo.

thank you. man united helped establish the plc boom in the premiership which led to all this megatycoon owner rubbish along with the privately owned premiership and the inflated tv deals. a generation of chavs grew up with this and when abramovich ushered in the uberich cunts to progress the plc culture to it's next level in the club fraternity, as well as the fact we're fucking cockneys, we became the most despised bunch of people in england since ze germans came knocking. the hypocrisy was lost on them.


you still tried to distance them from any wrong doing in the last part of that statement. or at least try and take a 'holier then thou' attitude to it.

take off your rose tinted glasses. every single team in the league cheats, dives and then moans about things that went against them. the league stinks of hypocrisy and bullshit.

its quite sad that a man u fan is moaning about it, frankly.

absolutely.


I remember Arsenal and Chelsea had a big bash at Christmas and were accused of rape.

I remember the time Gallas lay on a pitch in tears and got up and karate kicked a guy in the face.

I remember the time C. Ronaldo never dived. Ever.

I remember the time Vitor Baia pretended he got stood on his back by Roy Keane.

I remember the time the Glazer's were different to Abramovich in some drastic sense, other than that Chelsea haven't incurred massive debt.

They're all the fucking same, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Reading, MK Dons. Especially United. It's all subjective wank man, I don't know what you are even saying.

fucking absolutely. when i joined this forum and posted here for the first time, we had a discussion along these lines, before i started posting epic subjective articles and responses to everything to do with football since i'd last posted, slipping into biased diatribes based on drunken banter and arguments i'd had and watching matches and getting sucked in by the fraught petulant bullshit the clubs indulge in, but this post should be entered as the sub title to this fucking thread.


Alright, before I go to sleep I will reply properly. Seeing as I am not allowed to discuss off field matters, I think it is only fair you can't either, although it is ridiculous to say professionalism stops after 90 minutes:

First of all, I think your argument is based on an absurd idea that somehow United being less guilty makes them better. Not that United are less guilty anyway, of course, but a murderer is a murderer, you don't have to be Harold Shipman.

Keeping it strictly on the field though, you raised the example of Nistelrooy's penalty miss in 2003, when he hit the bar, and the reaction of the Arsenal players. I agree that what happened was unacceptable, but then again, at least a half dozen Arsenal players were subsequently fined, banned or both. Furthermore, in a rivalry as intense as that, expecting that a penalty miss by either team in the last minute of stoppage time would not be greeted with jubilation from the opponents is ridiculous.

Niklas Bendtner and Adebayor had an on field altercation in the Carling cup, Adebayor was fined for headbutting Bendtner. A similar example, and one I know Minty is fond of, is Euro 2004 when Ronaldo apparently contrived to have Rooney sent off. Well, I will not comment on that, but the fact that two supposedly professional team mates and friends would be trying to have one another sent off in the quarter finals of the most prestigious international football tournament (too much shit qualifies for the World Cup) says something in my mind.

Rooney and Ferguson routinely assault the officials when a decision goes against them. So does Wenger, Benitez, Grant, Ramos, everybody. Actually one of the few who doesn't is Kevin Keegan, but he's a really decent guy. Rooney is particularly vocal though, and I'm sure you'll accept that. I think video refereeing should be introduced and for time to only pass when the ball is in play too, but that is a separate issue.

Cristiano Ronaldo routinely dives, to the extent where his reputation sees him not gaining kicks for the legitimate fouls. So does Alexander Hleb, so does Fernando Torres, so does Didier Drogba.

On Gallas crying on the field, and Wenger patting him on the head or whatever, do you realistically expect Ferguson to have acted otherwise? What manager would retire to the dressing room and leave a player on the field in the full glare of the stadium and the media. He was captain, yes, and Wenger has more or less stated he will strip him of that role for next season.

Other things are Keane's ending of Haaland's career, stamping on Vitor Baia's back and Cantona's kick in the face of a fan. Those are serious examples of indiscipline, more serious in my mind than Nistlerooy being goaded a bit by a few Arsenal players seeing as none of them inflicted serious bodily harm, unless you count Lauren stroking him in the ribs as severe? Keane didnt go until he spoke out against the young players, and probably rightly so, and Cantona was there for years later too. I'm not saying Ferguson isn't the biggest ego there, but to claim he is somehow in total control is wrong. Look at Wenger, I mean, he's gotten rid of Vieira, Henry and Pires over the past few seasons. They are, in my view, Arsenal's three greatest players of recent times and Wenger was absolutely right to get rid of every one of them. How is Wenger not in control of that team? Avram Grant's say is questionable, but seeing as that takes in to account off field matters, it's a null point in this debate. I know this point is null before I make it, but at no point has Wenger, Grant, Mourinho, Houllier, Benitez, Keegan, Robson, Ranieri, Moyes or anyone else that immediately comes to mind, kicked a boot at one of his players heads. If I recall, that breakdown had more to do with Beckham's departure than did any factor involving Beckham becoming too big for his boots.

I am not trying to bring this back to Arsenal- because I am trying to divert away from making the same argument as you are on their behalf, all teams are exactly the same- but they just so happen to be an interesting example. Most fouled, least foul committing team in the league. Consistently one of the best teams on the fair play table. If they really are is in-disciplined and as stroppy and out of control as you say, I very much doubt that those statistics would exist.

If the argument gave credence to the fact that professionalism exists off field too, I could give further examples of United's sameness relative to everyone. I won't, out of respect for absurd, arbitrary debating criteria, but I do think most people recognise the fact anyway. It's natural after a disappointing result to claim that the referee gave all the wrong decisions, that their players are all cheaters and divers, that their manager is a wino, that their owner is an autocrat, whatever, but to subsequently claim and maintain that your team isn't, or at least not as much in the same category, is, well, wrong.

Anyway, I have to get up for work in the morning and I want to listen to LCD Soundsystem before I go to bed, but I am definitely happy to continue this debate tomorrow so long as you aren't going to be as fundamentalist about it.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/7370698.stm

also ridiculous

shinawatra won't give a toss about any fan reaction or staff reaction at the club; he bought out the club and owns it and he's the big boss who makes the rules. this is what happens when clubs sell out. in this respect, arsenal are a beacon, despite my despotic hatred for the club as a fan, for the people's club. i hope they continue to hold out against uzmanov and kroenke and any other wanker who's trying to boss the shares and join the elite round table and syphon off that ridiculous tv deal.

and to all the liverpool fans who blasted chelsea over their abramovich ownership and then welcomed in the warring yankees - FUCK YOU, YOU DESERVE THE TURMOIL. i disagree with the way it's going anyway so i don't claim to be a fan anymore and won't pay them a penny. we've all funded these wankers, and poured our hard earned dollar into respective clubs, funding the tv deals and associations and businesses that run the clubs, and created this monster. every match you've been to, every season ticket, every bit of merchandise.


Yeah, the whole defense played well. My love for Evra grows each game. And Brown was solid. Rio played great aswell.

I think Park is a great player for us. His work rate is amazing. And Tevez, the little scrapper.

man united have a great team of young talented pros from a wide range of countries who've been assembled and drilled by ferguson and galvanised into the siege mentality and the winning drive and individuals like evra and park can be overlooked but they add so much to the team and their rapport shows on the pitch too, you've got to give the alcoholic old bastard that. he builds great teams, and knows how to make them winners.


I'd prefer to see Chelsea win the double because it'd be hilarious if Avram Grant accomplished more in his first season than Jose Mourinho did in any of his, especially after his tabloid treatment over the past season. The Saturday Sport had a particularly funny piece on him last week, I was in stitches at work.

he looks quite demonic really, like he eats souls and has virgins delivered by evil ex kgb and mossad hit squads every day, and as a chelsea fan i would genuinely like to see a player revolt this summer or a failure to win anything to force abramovich to give him the boot. his post match interview against everton summed up what an absolute utter supercunt he is, what a fucking embarrassment, and this is in comparison to such lovely admirable people as drogba, terry, lampard, anelka, malouda, even mourinho, and so forth. sadly, if fan and media and player and staff pressure did oust him, roman would probably move him upstairs. power and money, and all that.


I think in terms of sheer quality of the teams, right now, the pro-Premiership brigade are right. But when you take into account the vastly more attractive playing style of La Liga, the fact tickets are so expensive fans can no longer go to see games, that no top players are home grown, the Premiership loses out massively.

there's more money and big players are attracted by the high wages, recent CL showings, big money owners and the elite fraternity being built and it's snowballing into a prem domination, although i think the top leagues around europe will retain their own standings and we won't see a CL domination like this too often. all i know is if scuntamore actually manages to push through his 39th foreign game plan (he'll probably compromise it so that it becomes one or two of the 38 games, to reduce the impact to the integrity of the competition's fairness, which is what he was planning anyway by putting such a radical and grossly unacceptable plan out there in the first place) i won't even watch it anymore, total abandonment

and also, i like the system they have in spain and portugal with clubs being owned by so many fans, and elections for presidents and so forth. it digs up wankers like florentino perez at real every now and then, but it's a better system then the plc and private ownership business model. clubs here don't have any relationship with the fans other then on a consumer basis and it's like american sports now.

i think charlton have a fan on the board elected every two years though, stemming from the funds they helped rebuild the club with, that's admirable in this age of football.

i will add though, Lampard was immense last night and showed real courage and character. for someone i have never really seen perform at the highest level all that often(espically for England), he gained my respect last night.

I think in terms of sheer quality of the teams, right now, the pro-Premiership brigade are right. But when you take into account the vastly more attractive playing style of La Liga, the fact tickets are so expensive fans can no longer go to see games, that no top players are home grown, the Premiership loses out massively.

Yeah, I'm not really disagreeing that the Premiership is the best league around at the moment. It's just annoying to keep hearing about it.

Also, I doubt the Premiership's dominance will last. Three of the top 4 clubs are bankrolled by external sources and thus unsustainable in the long term, while Arsenal owe a lot to Wenger and to be honest I can't see them really competing long-term either, especially if their better players leave like Flamini and get replaced by Michael Johnson (a rumour I heard in the Times today).

i will add though, Lampard was immense last night and showed real courage and character. for someone i have never really seen perform at the highest level all that often(espically for England), he gained my respect last night.

yeah, credit where it's due, he was very professional last night, and it's nice to see that for such an otherwise arrogant and headstrong and concurrently unpopular player he didn't get any distasteful stick either. even as a chelsea fan, i'd say he wasn't someone i particularly like, a guy who played at that highest level you mentioned in his first and maybe second mourinho seasons and then drifted along on his reputation, scoring mainly because he shot so often and took pens, and giving the ball away all the time, and who milked his untouchable status but who undoubtedly has the talent and was able to show admirable character in such difficult circumstances last night.


Arsenal owe a lot to Wenger and to be honest I can't see them really competing long-term either, especially if their better players leave like Flamini and get replaced by Michael Johnson (a rumour I heard in the Times today).

the funny thing is, you wouldn't see players like flamini, toure, adebayor, sagna, lehmann, clichy, hleb, even perhaps players like cesc and henry hitting the sort of form and heights of ability they do and have at arsenal, if they joined another club. players seem to step up a gear at arsenal, and i think that owes a lot to wenger's style of man management and siege mentality. as long as he runs the playing side of things, i can't see arsenal dropping out of the top 4, and they may even push into the trophy haul in the coming seasons, although that mantra of threatening to with young guns and low spending is a familiar one.

what's with edelman leaving?

i dont see things going tits up for the premiership anytime soon, i only see it continuing in the same vein, success begets success and such D:

I disagree Duo. Maybe not for the big 4, but look at Everton, Villa, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Newcastle, Tottenham and Man City. They aren't all in the hands of foreign ownership, but they are all competing for a handful of Uefa spaces and ultimately cracking the big four. Also, football clubs are the worst businesses ever, only Arsenal and Man Utd made a profit last year. So that combined with the competition and lack of instant success will see a lot of the foreign owners fuck off or at least start tightening the belt at some point.

Also Ceidwad, if you don't see and of the big four clubs competing in the long term, who do you? Man Utd and Liverpool may have foreign owners but they've been big clubs long before, only Chelsea's rise from an upper mid-table club has been artificial. As for Arsenal, they have the most profitable stadium in the world, an extremely well managed debt (lol, unlike Leeds) and Wenger has about 60m to spend, should he so choose. I mean, those 3 clubs are the most successful in English footballing history with massive global fan bases so I don't see them failing to compete any time soon and I don't think Abramovich is in a position where he might be getting concerned with the money lost at Chelsea. They'll break even in like 2089 anyway, Peter Kenyon says so.

EDIT: what I am saying is that the current big 4 will be unchallenged for quite a while to come and it'll make for a very dull league. It'll still be rich and Asia will love it forever and ever and ever, but the saturation of money and purchasing power in so few hands means it'll suffocate as entertainment in the saturation of its own money. Bayern Munich may have been hammered by Zenit St. Petersburg tonight, but their league is fantastically fan friendly and the big clubs still can attract the big names to a degree. There'll be no Real Sociedad or Bayer Leverkusen's losing the league on the last day of the season in the Premiership anytime soon. Not even a Chievo maintaining top position until Christmas. Additionally, these parachute payments for relegated clubs don't actually narrow the gap between Championship and Premiership but create a gulf between the Premiership and the Championship and an additional one between those who have been in the Premiership and those who haven't.

well since i was referring to the premiershp's dominance in europe i was implicitly referring to the big 4 solely. yeah, their dominance will have a negative effect on the rest of the league and in the long term on the league itself, i suppose, but i think that it will be a long time before such effects are observable. and who knows what will happen in the long term. i just dont see their grasp on the champions league loosening anytime soon, is all.

Also Ceidwad, if you don't see and of the big four clubs competing in the long term, who do you? Man Utd and Liverpool may have foreign owners but they've been big clubs long before, only Chelsea's rise from an upper mid-table club has been artificial. As for Arsenal, they have the most profitable stadium in the world, an extremely well managed debt (lol, unlike Leeds) and Wenger has about 60m to spend, should he so choose. I mean, those 3 clubs are the most successful in English footballing history with massive global fan bases so I don't see them failing to compete any time soon and I don't think Abramovich is in a position where he might be getting concerned with the money lost at Chelsea. They'll break even in like 2089 anyway, Peter Kenyon says so.

EDIT: what I am saying is that the current big 4 will be unchallenged for quite a while to come and it'll make for a very dull league. It'll still be rich and Asia will love it forever and ever and ever, but the saturation of money and purchasing power in so few hands means it'll suffocate as entertainment in the saturation of its own money. Bayern Munich may have been hammered by Zenit St. Petersburg tonight, but their league is fantastically fan friendly and the big clubs still can attract the big names to a degree. There'll be no Real Sociedad or Bayer Leverkusen's losing the league on the last day of the season in the Premiership anytime soon. Not even a Chievo maintaining top position until Christmas. Additionally, these parachute payments for relegated clubs don't actually narrow the gap between Championship and Premiership but create a gulf between the Premiership and the Championship and an additional one between those who have been in the Premiership and those who haven't.

I'm not saying the top 4 English clubs won't continue to be top continental clubs after their sugar daddies leave (although Chelsea in particular would not sustain their current level of performance) I'm saying that the Premiership won't dominate Europe in the way it currently is doing. Transfer fees are ridiculously high at the moment in England solely because the owners are so rich and can pay inflated amounts. On the continent, you rarely see a �20m transfer, never mind some of the crazy figures that have been mentioned in connection with English clubs recently (for example, Kaka for �55m to Chelsea according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/7370436.stm).)

I agree with your second point about the league stagnating.

the EPL has been dull for years now, ftr.

people say its the best league in the world. my arse.

its just the top clubs are so strong and have so much money.

i dont see any club getting close to them.

liverpool are in serious danger of slipping away, imo. thats about the only hope any other team has. Newcastle, run and managed properly(at all levels) could maybe challenge, but not for a long time and not after a lot of hard work.

i cannot believe fulham may stay up.

i am glad though, as i like bullard and mcbride. two players who are a breath of a fresh air to a league of pricks.

also, west ham rolling over to man yoo. WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT IT?

I like Roy Hodgson, very underrated manager.

Fulham only really have a shot at staying up because Reading's form has been so utterly dire. Reading now pretty much have to win their last game to stay up, and even though that's against Derby I still wouldn't bet against them blowing it.

Hodgson has done OK after a shaky start. I am glad. He has done well with European clubs and international teams but has never really managed it with an English club before. I think it'd be good if he could show how good he is with Fulham.

Leicester are down; city of Plymouth celebrates. Couldn't happen to a nicer man.

i cannot believe fulham may stay up.

i am glad though, as i like bullard and mcbride. two players who are a breath of a fresh air to a league of pricks.

also, west ham rolling over to man yoo. WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT IT?

can't fucking believe it either, i've been praying for the tears of al fayed and all the tramps that support that fucking club (although they make more noise then stamford bridge) but i agree that mcbride and bullard are great players; both in quality, and their honest and whole hearted approach to the game and the media circus that surrounds it; mcbride is a true hardman in a game of diving pansies, and bullard puts in the sort of effort that makes him a shining example to younger players. most of the rest of the squad are journeymen though

can't believe fucking bolton are staying up, either.

and after the man u defeat to west ham last season at the death, where's the surprise in the 4 1? although united played the sort of football that makes them, however unprofessional it was of curbishley to say it, worthy premier league champions this season. and that's ignoring the fact that it would be a tragedy for football if grant were to get any credit for a squad his predecessor built winning anything just because the owner installed him through biased friendship.


Fulham only really have a shot at staying up because Reading's form has been so utterly dire. Reading now pretty much have to win their last game to stay up, and even though that's against Derby I still wouldn't bet against them blowing it.

Hodgson has done OK after a shaky start. I am glad. He has done well with European clubs and international teams but has never really managed it with an English club before. I think it'd be good if he could show how good he is with Fulham.

i can't quite understand how such a barnstorming reading squad who did so well last season have completely gone limp this season.

i think it's nice to see stoke go up though; i don't think they've ever been in the top division before, and with the increased wealth of the premier league tv deals there's a real threat that as well as an established crop of premier league clubs there will be a group of championship dominating clubs who will keep powering to promotion and then be able to bounce back soon after subsequent relegations due to the dollar earned from previous premier league stays.

23 years since Stoke were in the top flight, but never in the Premier League before.

lol @ hollaway.

he is quite the twat. and im glad Southampton stayed up as i like Le Tissier.

Not football, but nowhere else to really post it and not worth a thread: I like Ali Carter, he is my favourite snooker player. I hope he gets it together because he is struggling and it's sad to see.

i like ronnie. dude has got style.

D=
The 1st goal came from a free kick that came from what I saw as an accident but that 2nd goal, with Newcastle's defence, it was bound to happen, brilliant passing I have to admit, it wasn't until the 2nd goal the game got terrible. 1st half was spectacular to watch but without Viduka in most of the 2nd the fire was gone but when Duff came on, I've never seen him play so well, one man show, poor Martins was struggling to keep up.

Oh, and I hope to g- err... I just hope N'Zogbia stays at the Toon.

just a bunch of cheating cossacks.

i despise man yoo as much but at least i actually respect them and they have history and tradition unlike those plastic cockney cunts.

just a bunch of cheating cossacks.

i despise man yoo as much but at least i actually respect them and they have history and tradition unlike those plastic cockney cunts.

don't be bitter with the stereotypical chav fallback argument, all top level squads cheat in all sorts of ways and manyoo have done it more then most over the last few decades, last few pages of this thread everyone's discussed this at length

as for history and tradition - chelsea have been around since 1905 and won 11 major honours before roman came along and bailed ken bates' failed plc project out and saved the club, so that's a pile of shite to claim they have none too.

and as for plastic fans, well, enough said.


23 years since Stoke were in the top flight, but never in the Premier League before.

there you go, i saw a news report that said 'stoke in the premier league for the first time ever' and that threw me, it's unfortunate and fickle the way the media differentiate between pre and post premier league records


Not football, but nowhere else to really post it and not worth a thread: I like Ali Carter, he is my favourite snooker player. I hope he gets it together because he is struggling and it's sad to see.

he was shiteing bricks earlier, but ronnie was missing uncharacteristically easy shots earlier too; i think he lost the onus to perform at his best when ali made it impossible for him to win the final at that afternoon session with those 2 breaks. a streaker has just come out just before the evening session, LOLOL.

just a bunch of cheating cossacks.

i despise man yoo as much but at least i actually respect them and they have history and tradition unlike those plastic cockney cunts.

ROFL.
Oh, there's actually cocknies on the Chelsea team!? surprise surprise. X_X

don't be bitter with the stereotypical chav fallback argument, all top level squads cheat in all sorts of ways and manyoo have done it more then most over the last few decades, last few pages of this thread everyone's discussed this at length

as for history and tradition - chelsea have been around since 1905 and won 11 major honours before roman came along and bailed ken bates' failed plc project out and saved the club, so that's a pile of shite to claim they have none too.

and as for plastic fans, well, enough said.




who's bitter? chelsea were faster, stronger and fully deserved their win. that doesnt change the fact Drogba is a nasty piece of shit. or Essien is a diver. or that they exploited a weak referee.

in a less fucked up world, the cossacks money would be used for the benefit of ordinary russians and not his plaything. if someone was ever to quote chelsea as the reason to chuck in premier League football no-one would have any semblance of an argument with which to counter. they are fucking horrible and if that is success, how its been bought and how it is being achieved then for all the cravings we have for a few days in the sunshine running around with some silverware, then i'd rather go without. they couldnt even sell all their tickets. pitiful, and would the reverse be the same? KK is right, the EPL has become boring and tedious.

also for you my ignorant friend, we've won the championship more then chelsea, we've won the fa cup more and we've won a european trophy before chelsea did. and it was done without a cossack benefactor.


ROFL.
Oh, there's actually cocknies on the Chelsea team!? surprise surprise. X_X

terry, lampard and both coles.

who's bitter? chelsea were faster, stronger and fully deserved their win. that doesnt change the fact Drogba is a nasty piece of shit. or Essien is a diver. or that they exploited a weak referee.

in a less fucked up world, the cossacks money would be used for the benefit of ordinary russians and not his plaything. if someone was ever to quote chelsea as the reason to chuck in premier League football no-one would have any semblance of an argument with which to counter. they are fucking horrible and if that is success, how its been bought and how it is being achieved then for all the cravings we have for a few days in the sunshine running around with some silverware, then i'd rather go without. they couldnt even sell all their tickets. pitiful, and would the reverse be the same? KK is right, the EPL has become boring and tedious.

also for you my ignorant friend, we've won the championship more then chelsea, we've won the fa cup more and we've won a european trophy before chelsea did. and it was done without a cossack benefactor.

all the big teams exploit referees and have more developed awareness and feigning skills, i could tick them off but there's no point, we all know they're all doing it. whoever's fault it is is irrelevant now (south americans, portuguese, italians, spanish) but there aren't many top players with what we would term integrity left in the game. and i'm not trying to defend drogba, he's a nasty, rabble rousing, elitist shite.

and roman not saving the children; name a fucking businessman, club owner, politician, company chairman etc. who DOES use his wealth to help his people and those in need! besides the token, minimally funded charity setups. the man citeh owner is on actual criminal charges back in thailand, for example; i mean OF COURSE he'd be a more respectable, admirable man if he aquired and redistributed his wealth with a view to strengthening his hometown and state and helping tackle poverty etc. but none of them do it. the world's fucked up, and roman, despicable, distant corporate cunt that he is, is merely an easy scapegoat, but not the exception, as you seem to be saying, rather the rule. next;

when all the premier league clubs became plcs it invited this sort of investment, so no, it's not chelsea's fault the PL is the rich investor monopolised elitist playground it now is. you think clubs were always available to be bought by big investors? the FA had ancient laws which forbade the use of clubs as profit making businesses. when they failed to update these to accomodate and void modern loopholes, the suits moved in, the league was sold and the clubs became the businesses they were in the 90s and are today. LOOK INTO IT.

the big clubs have always spent the record breaking fees to bring in big players, and that's what's made them winners and trophy holders. man united have long been fashioning their business strategem to market themselves to the whole world and build up huge revenues based on massive fan bases and merchandise and sponsorships and off field projects. so, yeah, technically, 90% + trophy winners in the history of football technically bought their success.

and finally, i'm not trying to deny that chelsea are not a historically big club, and their trophy hall and memorable seasons and fanbase dwindle in comparison with the traditionally big clubs. but if you're saying we have no history just because we haven't won as much as you, then what of clubs like port vale? burnley? derby? leeds? man citeh? pompey? none of these clubs have history then? fuck off. mk dons don't have any fucking history, or tradition, because they're 4 years old and were created when their new owners callously moved then wimbledon FC up out of london and fashioned a new club. we've been around since 1905, always at stamford bridge, and always in the top 2 divisions.

under mourinho and the jewish goblin, we've played efficient, callous, siege mentality ground out winning tactical football, with plenty of whinging, rule bending and undesirable and unnattractive tactics, intersparsed with rare skill and attacking onus, abandoned as soon as the big matches came around. and the lack of resistance to roman's wealth ushered in the big investors from all corners of the globe - even though a few had already successfully done it, donchaknow, less prominently due to less astonishing wealth - al fayed, the pricks over at mk dons, hull city etc. and look at milan - run by the president and one of the leading businessmen in italy, and, at least until the match fixing scandal, with a managing director who also ran their FA. and the other big clubs in italy which are run by huge industry leading businessmen who trade players and managers between themselves regularly for decades now. remember the world record breaking crespo move to lazio? with conceicao and almeyda moving the other way? NONE OF THE PLAYERS WANTED THAT MOVE. IT WAS A FAVOUR BETWEEN THE OWNERS.

all of this to say, get off the fucking bandwagon.

yawn.

I disagree with KK. Pompey will be crushing everyone next season.

Fact.

I don't think the Pats will have a perfect season.

Oh wait wrong football.

Bored much, Gara?

I disagree with KK. Pompey will be crushing everyone next season.

Fact.

not when campbell leaves and takes diarra with him

king kev had it spot on, imo. though i'd change the word "boring" to "predictable" more than anything: we all know who'll finish 1st through 4th next season, and at least 2 of the relegation spots are always pretty certain. at least the championship is a close league, regardless of anything else. harry reckons you'd need to spend �150m to compete with them and he's right. even if the BBC spend every close season wanking over spurs and how they're going to break it this year.

I agree the First Division has been incredibly predictable since the turn of the century really, occasionally the top two or three will change places but on the whole you can pretty accurately predict the top half of the table before the Charity Shield has been determined. As a Leeds fan I have had the opportunity to spend a few seasons following the second and third divisions and I would say that it has been the most fun I have had following the club since our days in the European Cup. Going to grounds I had either never been to before or certainly not for several years has been a great laugh. Sure the money would be nice back in Div One but I do not see us winning it again for quite some time and a UEFA cup spot is probably beyond us for the forseeable as well and it is very hard to get excited about aiming for mid table respectability. So yes the First Division is not boring per se but it is hardly exciting either.

yawn.

disappointing. i expected more after the last few pages of discussion and the objective approach everyone took

king kev had it spot on, imo. though i'd change the word "boring" to "predictable" more than anything: we all know who'll finish 1st through 4th next season, and at least 2 of the relegation spots are always pretty certain.

yus

although the quality in the championship is fairly poor

also, i don't think liverpool are in any danger of slipping away. arsenal might struggle if flamini, hleb and fabregas disappear and aren't replaced. discipline is a big factor with arsenal.

also also, i don't see how the premier league is going downhill when villa and everton have massively improved under two good managers, west ham, spurs, man city and pompey have a bigger wad of clout than they've ever had, and bigger investors are swooping up the under-achievers like qpr, sheff wednesday and soon leeds and forest.

sure, it's money that's driving it, but who gives a fuck if it makes the football that much sweeter to watch? rather watch that than the garbage churned out by the spic leagues.

ps sry willffshirecaptainsquire, i can't stand chelsea's arrogance anymore than i can stand someone urinating on my grandma. they're a dispicable bunch of diving, greedy chancers. mark of a big club is how many supporters would still follow them if they slipped into the second tier of english league system. leeds handled it. city handled it. chelsea's middle class tits would swan off down the road to watch quinns for a spot of egg chasing and pimms.

ps sry willffshirecaptainsquire, i can't stand chelsea's arrogance anymore than i can stand someone urinating on my grandma. they're a dispicable bunch of diving, greedy chancers. mark of a big club is how many supporters would still follow them if they slipped into the second tier of english league system. leeds handled it. city handled it. chelsea's middle class tits would swan off down the road to watch quinns for a spot of egg chasing and pimms.

np, not defending chelsea, i don't support the club anymore in response to their owners, them that run the club, admins, suits, sponsorships with everyone in the world and his sister, the playing staff; my post was merely to highlight how every club has gone down that route, and how hypocritical anyone who tries to single chelsea out for it is.

congratulations to man united, despite stuttering lately and having generally fickle, plastic, cosmo swathes of fans, arrogant players and coaches, they've played the better football and after they powered ahead when arsenal capitulated, they deserved it. for their part, arsenal also deserved something for the football they've played, despite their own disgustingly petulant, pedantic, toys-out-the-pram manager and players. chelsea deserve nothing for avram-the-horrific, admins and owners and fucking arrogant playboy players but they may yet beat mancs in moscow, we'll see. gilette soccer sunday was hilarious today, paul merson and the like shiteing themselves whenever someone went close to the woodwork let alone scoring.

who thinks sven told the lads to pack it in today to embarrass the thai crook? 8 1 to boro? incredible.

also, fucking shame fulham stayed up, the cunts. still, not surprising to see bullard at the centre of their work ethic. shame on pompey :P seriously it will be a surprise if cardiff pull the FA cup off, first lower league side for decades, in a season when 3 of the semi finalists were, but it will still be a shock if pompey don't bag it. will be interesting.

first all english CL final? 3 english CL semi finalists? scuntamore will be busily preparing a dossier on how that affirms the validity and viability of his 39th game plan. hopefully the fans and the pricks at FIFA will keep the blinkers off and vote against it with protest and closed wallets, it's obvious what a callously self serving and also pretty wank idea it is. also UEFA cup, shunned by most of the big sides, seen as an unworthy competition in italy, and the fucking huns make it to the final with some russian cunts who're probably funded by some oil magnate or other, who surprisingly beat bayern. would have preferred a fiorentina bayern final, but there you go. unlucky to everton and spuds this year

finally i watched football italia today and lold, inter could have won the title last weekend in the milan derby but lost 2 1, then could have won it again today against siena in their final home game, but drew 2 2, pegged back twice, with materazzi winning a penalty so dubious the referee should be sacked and materazzi publically flogged for it late on, only for the big cunt to fluff it, justice does sometimes prevail it seems. inter need the win on the last day to guarantee the title, here's hoping roma snatch it, they play the better football and have less cunts in their squad.

peaceout. and COME ON POLSKA in the euros.

CHAMPIONAY! CHAMPIONAY! OLE! OLE! OLE!

http://forums.ffalpha.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8&d=1206791085

finally i watched football italia today and lold, inter could have won the title last weekend in the milan derby but lost 2 1, then could have won it again today against siena in their final home game, but drew 2 2, pegged back twice, with materazzi winning a penalty so dubious the referee should be sacked and materazzi publically flogged for it late on, only for the big cunt to fluff it, justice does sometimes prevail it seems. inter need the win on the last day to guarantee the title, here's hoping roma snatch it, they play the better football and have less cunts in their squad.

Not having any form of digital TV, it has been great to be able to come home from work on a Sunday afternoon to watch the Italian football this year. I hope C5 renew their rights next season. Also: the standard of Italian football may be less than that of the Big 4, but it is an entertaining league and the mediocre to bad teams in Italy would beat the mediocre to bad teams in England, I'd wager.

CHAMPIONAY! CHAMPIONAY! OLE! OLE! OLE!

http://forums.ffalpha.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8&d=1206791085


X2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAH BRING ON A WEEK ON WEDNESDAY!!!!!!!!


OKAY, LETS PLAY A GAME...ITS CALLED " SPOT THE CHELSEA FAN"







!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ALSO, LOL AT THE 8-1 THRASHING OF THE CITY SHITE

Not having any form of digital TV, it has been great to be able to come home from work on a Sunday afternoon to watch the Italian football this year. I hope C5 renew their rights next season. Also: the standard of Italian football may be less than that of the Big 4, but it is an entertaining league and the mediocre to bad teams in Italy would beat the mediocre to bad teams in England, I'd wager.

did you ever watch football italia on channel 4? back when james richardson - always a pleasure to watch him pun his sarcastic way through the headlines on a sunday night at a cafe on location in rome or milan with a glass of wine or an espresso at the ready - used to present it and peter brackley commentated, legends both. and yeah, especially in recent years, the talent has evened itself out among the top flight teams, and with teams like napoli and sampdoria and genoa dropping down a division and up again, and especially after the crisis that demoted fiorentina and then the match fixing thing that fucked the big clubs and demoted juve last year, the interest in serie b increased and the talent spread out among the teams, i reckon.

of course, the playacting, diving, the catenaccio, tactics, the half empty stadiums, half full with rabid neo fascist hooligans are all disappointing aspects to the game out there. but there's also a lot of talent, an unpredictability that allows for tense or open or high scoring games, and it's great to watch on a sunday afternoon or night. also, that italian bird on the C5 show is jesus-christ-my-eyes-just-exploded fit and her accent makes her a joy to watch!

german and spanish leagues are also top quality though. sky has the spanish bought up but i'm not sure about german. C5 used to have dutch, embryonic MLS, argie leagues in the night, and C4 had ligue 1 for a few seasons and the brazilian league, but they've all ended, to my knowledge.


mancshitegarble

typical manc bile, hypocritical of your own fickle gone-with-the-wind if you'd been the runners up yesterday. surprising to see your location state you as a manchester resident too, or am i strangling a tired cliche? every time i've been to a pub in manchester centre or cheadle hulme or didsbury i've seen only citeh fans, have i been going to the wrong places? there's plenty of manyoo fans in chester, nearly all the locals and half the fucking student population, especially all the football team chavyjocks.

anyway, united probably deserved it, at least after arsenal slipped up and lost their edge. see you in moscow

typical manc bile, hypocritical of your own fickle gone-with-the-wind if you'd been the runners up yesterday. surprising to see your location state you as a manchester resident too, or am i strangling a tired cliche? every time i've been to a pub in manchester centre or cheadle hulme or didsbury i've seen only citeh fans, have i been going to the wrong places? there's plenty of manyoo fans in chester, nearly all the locals and half the fucking student population, especially all the football team chavyjocks.

anyway, united probably deserved it, at least after arsenal slipped up and lost their edge. see you in moscow

Oh piss off. We won the league, and City got beat 8-1. Im obviously going to be happy. And for good reason.

And If you are implying what i think you are. Then i would advise asking for more detail into why i support United. Instead of suggesting i am a glory chaser. If you assume that every united fan is one, then your an idiot, frankly.

I follow United around as much as possible. The only reason i wasn't there yesterday, was because my friends were home from Uni. So we watched it in a bar.

Im curious, how often do you watch your team? ( Im not getting at everyone here, I know football is a costly thing. And I don't expect someone who lives off the coast to watch their team. But, if you cant get to watch your team play football, without valid reasons. Then don't question others about there loyalty to a club.)

Oh piss off. We won the league, and City got beat 8-1. Im obviously going to be happy. And for good reason.

And If you are implying what i think you are. Then i would advise asking for more detail into why i support United. Instead of suggesting i am a glory chaser. If you assume that every united fan is one, then your an idiot, frankly.

I follow United around as much as possible. The only reason i wasn't there yesterday, was because my friends were home from Uni. So we watched it in a bar.

Im curious, how often do you watch your team? ( Im not getting at everyone here, I know football is a costly thing. And I don't expect someone who lives off the coast to watch their team. But, if you cant get to watch your team play football, without valid reasons. Then don't question others about there loyalty to a club.)

JAYSUS KEEP YE FACKIN PANTS ON YA DAFT CUNT YA

i was expressing surprise at your manchester residence! i guess i strangled the tired cliche; at uni in chester i went in to manchester a few times and obviously drank in chester loads and observed more united fans in chester. that doesn't mean there ARE, obviously.

good for you supporting a club from your city. i don't assume all united fans are glory hunters, i know that most fans of most top level clubs around the world are, and that there are sizeable, loyal core supports for every one of those clubs as well, both types of fan determined by local involvement, success and business and marketing stratagem. simple fact, that even an idiot can see.

and i don't watch chelsea, because i don't support them anymore, for reasons i've gone into loads of times on this thread. the last match i went to was the zola testimonial in 04, which he only actually played half an hour of (still a cagliari player available on special dispensation), but which was still a great day out, 40 000 chelsea fans, other old faces from the gullit and vialli teams, couple of goals, great fun. and chelsea's been consistently the most fucking expensive club to watch since i started supporting them, so i never saw them that much anyway

see you in moscow then! should be FUCKING FANTABULOUS.

Aye, I remember Football Italia, Peter Brackley is a good guy.

I remember C5 used to show matches at unsociably late times and I'd maybe see a first half of a Dutch game if I decided to stay up to 4. One time I woke up in the middle of the night and saw highlights on C4 of the Copa Libertadores semis, which was cool. Sometimes if I have work really early on a Sunday morning, I see Goalismio or whatever which is like a round up of football all over the world, I like it too.

EDIT: Awesome, in Portugal Rio Ave were promoted from the Liga Vitalis to the Bwin Liga. I always manage them in CM01-02.

Post is late, but have been busy, yada yada.
Bloody Scousers! I admit the classy bastards ruled that match with an iron fist and played quite well I still offer resentment toward a loss for Newcastle.

anyone think by denying Keegan's right to have an opinion Mr Ashley has made himself out to be a complete tosspot? Sure he survived the wrath of the rich gaffer but the case is childish anyway.

i really really really want bristol city to go up

then hull and argyle can both go up next season and hand the "biggest city to have never had a top-flight club" title to some other poor buggers. milton keynes i guess.

so now that the off season is here we're going to rent this thread to a bunch of germans to stage some art deco pomo crap. best get out of here or i'll have the law on your ass you ne'er do wells >:

I kinda wanted Rangers to win. But whatever, it isnt a big deal.

Man, Duo, we can still discuss gOsSiP during the close season. Don't rent it out to Euro queers, it is by far the best thread on the whole entire forum and probably the whole entire internet.

MossY, given that you're Irish, aren't you a 'Euro queer', or are you now finally admitting what everyone has known all along, that Britain does indeed own you guys? If so, congrats on finally facing the truth. :D :p

Also wanted Rangers to win. I'm not particularly fussed with either Old Firm team, but I don't like the Russians much, so.

Aye, I remember Football Italia, Peter Brackley is a good guy.

I remember C5 used to show matches at unsociably late times and I'd maybe see a first half of a Dutch game if I decided to stay up to 4. One time I woke up in the middle of the night and saw highlights on C4 of the Copa Libertadores semis, which was cool. Sometimes if I have work really early on a Sunday morning, I see Goalismio or whatever which is like a round up of football all over the world, I like it too.

EDIT: Awesome, in Portugal Rio Ave were promoted from the Liga Vitalis to the Bwin Liga. I always manage them in CM01-02.

insomnia isn't so sapping when you can fill it with cool stuff, like foreign footie, besides, you see what the scouts see, and you see some great fans on the terraces, some great footie, and it's cool to see how the quality and styles vary quite dramatically depending on the league


Post is late, but have been busy, yada yada.
Bloody Scousers! I admit the classy bastards ruled that match with an iron fist and played quite well I still offer resentment toward a loss for Newcastle.

anyone think by denying Keegan's right to have an opinion Mr Ashley has made himself out to be a complete tosspot? Sure he survived the wrath of the rich gaffer but the case is childish anyway.

i hope newcastle keep kev on, good footballing mind and seems more humble and genuine then many managers, and he obviously has the respect of the entire fanbase and also the players and coaches, ergo give him a chance. i think you'll have to offload absolute supercunts like barton and smith and trim the mercenaries, perhaps even your bigger ones like owen and viduka - try younger and hungrier players - and build the squad around loyalists and the more driven young guns like given, harper, taylor, n zogbia, martins, that sort. my take anyway

honorary mention - as much as i fucking loathe fulham, al fuckayed, pondlife chav fans and most of the journeyman squad, besides the likes of mcbride and bullard - and i'll include murphy, mainly because he was brought up around the corner from where i went to uni - i'm happy for hodgson. i didn't know much about him before fulham appointed him, but i was stunned when he commiserated coppell and mcleish and their clubs, and admitted how close he was to being in their position. quite the touch of class to be that sporting in your cutthroat prem fraternity.


i really really really want bristol city to go up

then hull and argyle can both go up next season and hand the "biggest city to have never had a top-flight club" title to some other poor buggers. milton keynes i guess.

should be an interesting play off final. and i would say that i hope mk dons never see the premier league but they probably will given their improvement recently and the investor drive in footie. anyway, how will you react if cardiff win the cup?


so now that the off season is here we're going to rent this thread to a bunch of germans to stage some art deco pomo crap. best get out of here or i'll have the law on your ass you ne'er do wells >:

i'll be here to bleat when/if (most likely when) poland make a fucking embarrassment of themselves in the group stages and get promptly knocked out. or hammer out schizophrenic and overkill epic essays and CAPS LOCK JAM OMFG JAYSUS WE ONLY FUCKIN WON posts if they actually win a match or go far *fingers crossed*

but as for the uefa cup final, i have never seen a more lifeless, tired, inept and negative performance in a final then i did from rangers. they weren't playing football in the semi, it made bolton and chelsea look attractive. and their final performance last night made their semi performance look like a barnstorming arsenal game. given the way both teams played, it was a victory for attacking football last night. i mean, fucking greece played nicer football at euro 2004.

and their fans... one of the big screens failed. so some clever twats threw bottles at it, and then at the police. i heard paramedics were attacked (!) and a russian fan was stabbed, thankfully not seriously injured, and the scenes of them fighting coppers were ugly. it was a minority of the masses that went, but what fucking braindead cunts; i can't fathom why they'd get into that mess. what's the fucking point? bit of banter would do really, not enough for these fucking cunts is it?

edit - have to add that it's not exactly cool to see a red menace, bought recently and owned by the fourth biggest company in the world, an oil monopoly that recently bought the company that made abramovich rich, win instead of huns, but they did play great football, all the same

I really hope Milton Keynes don't go up any more. If they end up in the Conference it's three leagues too good for them.

As for the Rangers fans, fucking hell. Absolutely pathetic behaviour.

I really hope Milton Keynes don't go up any more. If they end up in the Conference it's three leagues too good for them.

Disagree. Without the move, Wimbledon would have died. MK Dons are no worse than Ebbsfleet (formerly Gravesend and Northfleet) or any other club who has changed their name to increase their appeal to fans. It's just that MK Dons get all the stick because theirs is the most high-profile case.

Ebbsfleet didn't move town and change their identity, though. They're still the same team.

And Wimbledon did die, when they moved north. They just changed to AFC Wimbledon and are currently working their way up the league ladder. MK Dons are a new club (so says their badge, so says their official history now they've rejected all claims to the Wimbledon name). Why did they get Wimbledon's league spot? They should've been made to start again at the bottom imo, like AFC Wimbledon did.

OK, but what would happen to MK Dons' league spot if they had been kicked down the order? You're messing with the livelihoods of several professional footballers, and bearing in mind that these aren't Premiership footballers who can afford to go months without a job, I don't think such a move would have done anything positive except satisfy a few angry Wimbledon fans.

Ebbsfleet haven't moved town, but they have changed their name, and there are other clubs that have moved from their original location (Arsenal for example, ok, they haven't moved 'towns' but a borough of London is bigger than a town anyway and they've moved quite a distance in their history, originally being from Woolwich).

My point is that these things in themselves are not frowned upon when they are done individually, but when MK Dons announce a whole range of changes (albeit changes that have been made before at other clubs) they are demonised, just because it was a large number of changes as opposed to a slight change. Doesn't seem fair to me.

They weren't Premier League footballers but they were a) on probably about �2000 a week minimum, which isn't bad money at all and b) were presumably talented enough to have been picked up by another club fairly soon. MK Don's league spot would've been filled by bumping more clubs up from the other division. Same as when a club goes bust, you just sort something out. Give it to a club who deserve it.

Arsenal didn't move 100 miles north. Changing name isn't so much of a problem. Changing towns, changing stadia and moving miles away from the original fanbase, regardless of their wishes, is a problem. If MK Dons go out of business tomorrow I for one will not shed a tear. Football is supposed to be about the fans, not about making money from a franchise, which is what the MK Dons board seem to think it is.

Football is supposed to be about the fans, but it is also a business and has been ever since it turned professional. Manchester United, Chelsea and other Premiership clubs have done things comparable to what MK Dons have done. Such as setting up massive commercial fanbases in Asia, in some cases changing stadia, owners, buying masses of foreign players and filling the board with businessmen instead of local fans.

Wimbledon were in administration, and had been poorly managed. Without Winkelman, they probably would have gone bust, and certainly would have continued to drop down the pyramid, possibly out of the league. I'm not saying that MK Dons are saints exactly, but they do recieve a great deal more criticism than is justified in my opinion, especially when you consider the stuff that Premiership clubs do.

Also, if changing the name isn't a problem, where does it end? Is changing kit colours (like many clubs) a problem? Is changing the badge (like Leeds, and probably others) a problem? Is changing stadia (again, like quite a few clubs) a problem? MK Dons have changed a lot, but the things they done aren't unprecedented, except maybe dropping a club's history, but that is only one more step along the road.

They weren't Premier League footballers but they were a) on probably about �2000 a week minimum, which isn't bad money at all and b) were presumably talented enough to have been picked up by another club fairly soon. MK Don's league spot would've been filled by bumping more clubs up from the other division. Same as when a club goes bust, you just sort something out. Give it to a club who deserve it.

Arsenal didn't move 100 miles north. Changing name isn't so much of a problem. Changing towns, changing stadia and moving miles away from the original fanbase, regardless of their wishes, is a problem. If MK Dons go out of business tomorrow I for one will not shed a tear. Football is supposed to be about the fans, not about making money from a franchise, which is what the MK Dons board seem to think it is.

i have to agree with all this, it happened before roman and the stupidly rich investors moved in and although it's endemic of the game today as illustrated by ceidwad it was a particularly callous move on the part of the new owners to totally relocate the club in another city. american club franchises do that but the system with clubs is different here, there's more identity and local connection involved and to ignore that is what is so despicable about the move.


Football is supposed to be about the fans, but it is also a business and has been ever since it turned professional. Manchester United, Chelsea and other Premiership clubs have done things comparable to what MK Dons have done. Such as setting up massive commercial fanbases in Asia, in some cases changing stadia, owners, buying masses of foreign players and filling the board with businessmen instead of local fans.

Wimbledon were in administration, and had been poorly managed. Without Winkelman, they probably would have gone bust, and certainly would have continued to drop down the pyramid, possibly out of the league. I'm not saying that MK Dons are saints exactly, but they do recieve a great deal more criticism than is justified in my opinion, especially when you consider the stuff that Premiership clubs do.

Also, if changing the name isn't a problem, where does it end? Is changing kit colours (like many clubs) a problem? Is changing the badge (like Leeds, and probably others) a problem? Is changing stadia (again, like quite a few clubs) a problem? MK Dons have changed a lot, but the things they done aren't unprecedented, except maybe dropping a club's history, but that is only one more step along the road.

changing a name, badge and kit are aesthetic things in my opinion and i don't really give a fuck about that, although it does help foster the identity and traditions of the club in question if the changes at least references or are developments of previous. moving stadium is in my opinion necessary to move with the times and maximise profits but it can betray the club's traditions, depending on where the new stadium is mainly. MK dons moved to a new city - hence the ultimate betrayal of their fans. arsenal moved down the road i believe, or not very far certainly, and in their early years they were a nomadic club anyway so it's not the same thing.

it's a traditionalist vs capitalist modernist conflict, basically.

Its not nice to realize your local football is utter shite. I may live NEAR Newcastle but not IN it, a town called South Shields. Seen the team play and by god do they fail. Even Gateshead is better than SS.

Go mossy's team!

Absolutely not.

Also, if Leeds win in the playoff final. I will hit my screen. I have �100 riding on them staying put. Its a guy i work with. He is a die hard Leeds fan.

Thoughts on this issue?

Football is supposed to be about the fans, but it is also a business and has been ever since it turned professional. Manchester United, Chelsea and other Premiership clubs have done things comparable to what MK Dons have done. Such as setting up massive commercial fanbases in Asia, in some cases changing stadia, owners, buying masses of foreign players and filling the board with businessmen instead of local fans.

Wimbledon were in administration, and had been poorly managed. Without Winkelman, they probably would have gone bust, and certainly would have continued to drop down the pyramid, possibly out of the league. I'm not saying that MK Dons are saints exactly, but they do recieve a great deal more criticism than is justified in my opinion, especially when you consider the stuff that Premiership clubs do.

Also, if changing the name isn't a problem, where does it end? Is changing kit colours (like many clubs) a problem? Is changing the badge (like Leeds, and probably others) a problem? Is changing stadia (again, like quite a few clubs) a problem? MK Dons have changed a lot, but the things they done aren't unprecedented, except maybe dropping a club's history, but that is only one more step along the road.
None of those things are problems, per se. What is a problem is abandoning your fans and history and absonding 100 miles north to another city. It's not the foreign players, the business methods etc. It's the wholesale selling off of a fanbase in order to make more money in Milton fucking Keynes. If Chelsea move to Carlisle then they'll be as bad as MK Dons. If Man Utd bugger off to Penzance they'll be as bad as MK Dons. But they'd have to leave their history, fans and identity behind.

We don't operate a franchise system and God help us if we ever do. Clubs have history and attachment. Better that Wimbledon stayed loyal to their fans, even if it meant going bust, than sold out completely. Because it came to the same net result - AFC Wimbledon are the only Wimbledon club. Only if they'd gone bust then MK Dons wouldn't exist, which is a good thing.

Well done Portsmouth. Cardiff did pretty well I thought, but once Kanu scored I always thought it would be hard for them to get back into it.

Re MK Dons/Wimbledon:


None of those things are problems, per se. What is a problem is abandoning your fans and history and absonding 100 miles north to another city. It's not the foreign players, the business methods etc. It's the wholesale selling off of a fanbase in order to make more money in Milton fucking Keynes. If Chelsea move to Carlisle then they'll be as bad as MK Dons. If Man Utd bugger off to Penzance they'll be as bad as MK Dons. But they'd have to leave their history, fans and identity behind.

Essentially, dropping the history is really the only new thing that MK Dons have done. Other clubs have moved towns when mergers have occured, and will continue to do so in future, especially lower down the pyramid. OK, usually mergers are between two fairly close local clubs, but I fail to see that this is anything other than an extension of what's been going on for years, in terms of clubs whoring their identity for cash.

Not necessarily condoning it, but they do have a fairly undeserved stigma attached to them, in my opinion. All they've done in effect is buy League One/Two status, as Wimbledon would have gone bust anyway.


We don't operate a franchise system and God help us if we ever do. Clubs have history and attachment. Better that Wimbledon stayed loyal to their fans, even if it meant going bust, than sold out completely. Because it came to the same net result - AFC Wimbledon are the only Wimbledon club. Only if they'd gone bust then MK Dons wouldn't exist, which is a good thing.

Well, they may still have existed, just lower down the pyramid. We'll never know, I suppose.

Mergers aren't anything new but moving 100 miles north is. And that's my point. They sold out entirely which is unforgivable as far as I'm concerned.


In other news:

FUCKING YES

absolutely brilliant. absolutely absolutley wonderful. i love the fa cup


europe is coming to fratton park! can't quite believe it

Congratulations to Portsmouth.

Truly the best FA Cup competition I have ever seen. If I listed the number of upsets, I would be here until next season. What a refreshing change not watching the usual millionaires treat the final as just another game.

The fans were superb as well. Credit to Cardiff, a very gutsy, quality outfit. Unlucky.

Here's hoping United fuck the Russians up on Wednesday.

Oh, yeah, it's been the best FA Cup in years and years. Not just saying that as a Pompey fan, though obviously that helps - I've been saying it pretty much since Havant went ahead twice at Anfield. Sponsors and the TV companies might not like it but for the fans, it's been brilliant.

PLAY UP POMPEY

POMPEY PLAY UP

Harry Redknapp for Knight-hood.

Kanu for England.

Etc.

Everton > Arsenal

Aresonal

Alright, it looks very likely we'll sign Samir Nasri in the next few days. That could mean replacing Hleb, if he chooses to leave for Inter, or, as is hopefully the case, an addition to the squad rather than a replacement. From what I've read he is a really good player but I never see Marseille play so, it's hard to make a personal judgement. I don't know if this is going to dispel any attempt at signing Ben Arfa, but I posted a shopping list one time somewhere in this thread saying we needed two wingers, so I'd like to see both being bought. I might prefer Joao Moutinho to Ben Arfa, but fuck it, I only have terrestrial, my scouting is based on wiki and youtube.

Walter Aquillani also looks likely to be bought, which is a good signing and I'd like to see Miguel Veloso too for his versatility and youth, but it looks like he could be heading for United, I dunno.

Carlos Vela will get his work permit so he might push for a first team place, and I never really saw Arsenal trying for David Villa due to the sheer expense, though, I could be wrong.

I read they were going to put in a bid for Richard Dunne too, who'd be a much better player than Phillipe Senderos and reasonably priced also.

Linked with Sebastian Frey as well, but I think Almunia and Fabianski are a very good pair of keepers and it seems that every summer Frey is linked with a move to Arsenal because he's French, so I'd say that one is shite.

Looking at the youth who are going to come through, Denilson, Diaby, Song and Walcott will probably be more prominent next season, Bendtner hopefully less. Barazite, Merida, van den Berg and Nordtveit, as well as Carlos Vela, will probably get a few games next year and Luke Wilshere I'd really like to see play in the Carling Cup.

After we lost to Liverpool I attacked the team for being useless, but finishing 4 points behind "Ferguson's greatest team" and on enough points to have comfortably won previous Premier Leagues, it's been a very positive albeit frustrating season, we really deserved to win something. With a few signings and the development of some of the younger players, we definitely have the potential to win the league.

Lol Joey Barton, maybe his slot will be filled by someone with the decency to play decent football!

joey barton got what he deserved.

Quite.

i posted a few mega round ups of the season but the first time my laptop died before i could post it and the second time, the entire street had a power cut, and i think it's all been said anyway so whatever, suffice to say, hearing what barton did, he's a total disgrace and hopefully he'll never play again. it's a shame to see the token 'we'll support him' bollocks - he's a fucking cunt and deserves worse.

bring on CL final and the euros.

I reckon it's going to be 1-1 after 90 minutes and probably penalties. Could be 1-0 or 2-1 to either team also, but I don't see there being more than a goal in it. Both teams are about as good as each other.

I'm more excited about the Euros to be honest.

I know tonight is the CL final and usually I would at least be mildly intrigued but to be honest I'm pretty apathetic.

I've already watched Man Utd and Chelsea play dozens of times this year as that's all they ever show in the pub, so it doesn't really hold much excitement to me.

its fuckin' squeeky bum time!

So, who's going to win the Crewe and Nantwich by-election?! I see Dunwoody starting off brightly but fading in the final twenty gifting victory to the Tories with the Lib Dems finishing a respectable third.

I think Labour will finish third.

The Lib Dems seem confident they will attract a lot of voters who are unhappy with Labour. The Tories will win because no-one's actually asked Cameron what he stands for and got a truly descriptive answer yet. Hence, he has the Obama effect on people, who superimpose their values on the blank screen.

A really good half of football, I thought, at least after the first goal. Hard to say what way it's going to go, but Man United deserved to score at least once more, great double save from Cech and Teves' missed opportunity, even if it was very bad defending imo.

Chelsea deserved to win, Terry should never have been taking a penalty.

FUCK YES!!!!!!!

and the reds go marching ON ON ON!!!!

Terry is a glory hunting bottler, he wanted that last pen to win the game and he fucked it for his whole team greedy shit bastard hahaha!

I reckon it's going to be 1-1 after 90 minutes and probably penalties. Could be 1-0 or 2-1 to either team also, but I don't see there being more than a goal in it. Both teams are about as good as each other.

good call. i'm really gutted, to be honest. very draining final. the referee and linesmen were poor, and i'll say it, they didn't give us a load of blatant corners and throw ins, and didn't punish some rough challenges by united, although constant and pretty embarrassing whinging from carvalho, ballack, joe cole, makelele etc. didn't help.

although drogba shouldn't have been the only one sent off after that fracas, it just shows what a bunch of cunts those two clubs are represented by, endemic and consistently the case in all other top level clubs anyway, but still. fighting in a champions league final? what the fuck?

grant doesn't deserve any sympathy, it's fucking sickening nepotism that he got the position anyway, why he stuck our most vibrant midfielder essien at right back, and why malouda played at all, is fucking beyond me, truly. give that toad cunt the sack, immediately. he hasn't achieved anything. better yet, lets see roman and his merry board of suits sell up and fuck off and 80 % of the squad and coaches too, clearly won't happen but a nice thought. i'd only really want to see cech, terry, lampard, essien, joe cole and a few other periphery players stay.

i can't quite believe how sickening that miss by terry was. lampard should have scored when he hit the bar, and drogba's post effort was unlucky. we should have done them after crybaby missed.


mancgarble

congratulations to the talented and arrogant, vicious cunts, through gritted teeth.

bring on the fucking euros! and no more penalties please! i've seen enough england and chelsea failures at that circus to last me a lifetime. that's the one thing that abhorrent shadow of a shite clive fucking tildsley is right about, it's a disgusting way to end a football match. still, great drama for the neutral.

Ronaldo is such a cry baby

yeah. chelsea really deserved it, it's a pity. good game though.

Amazing. To be fair, i know it shouldnt have gone to pens, its a horrible way to end such a good game. But we should have been 3 goals up at half time. And its a lottery really when it comes to penalties. But I still think we deserved to win anyway. Great season all around. I would go into more detail, but i have the hangover to end all hangovers.

And I am now gunna go and do the north cave on FF VII. ( no seriously, I found a memory card for my PS1 the other day, and i loaded it up, and it was at a save point around the hogo fight. I just carried it on. :) )

i have no opinion whatsoever.

It pains me, it pains me greatly to say this but the arrogant bastard reds have done it again and I really struggle to say this whole heartedly, gz Man U. The cunts deserve it, well it was all worth it to see Ronaldo miss a penalty though hehehe.

just seen footage of the chelsea fans rioting outside fulham broadway. weird to see rioting in a place i go through regularly and have done for over 10 years, out in the streets and everything, but i guess it's expected considering chelsea rangers connections, and also the fact that the huns trashed manchester last week, and also the fact that they're all completely fucking subhuman and really deserve to die for being so staggeringly braindead.

i really feel for jt, he had history at his boots and he slipped, monumental failure. someone had to win and someone had to lose. it feels so much worse that we had it, he could have won it, it was in our hands, and he fucked it up. it will be interesting to see how he reacts to it in the coming season

MAY 21ST 2008 - BREAKING NEWS

A MASSIVE BOMB HAS RIPPED THROUGH THE HEART OF MOSCOW, JUST HOURS AHEAD OF THE 2008 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL.

POLICE FEAR UP TO 70,000 MANCHESTER UNITED AND 50,000 CHELSEA FANS MAY HAVE BEEN KILLED, WITH UP TO 20,000 CRITICALLY INJURED. RED SQUARE IS AWASH WITH RED AND BLUE CORPSES.









Carlsberg don't do terrorism……

I don't think it was particularly fair to sack Grant, but I suppose to be expected.

Yeah I think he's a better manager than some people give him credit for, but he didn't win anything. I doubt any Chelsea manager could last a season without winning the Champions League now though.

grant was only really hired through nepotism though, and besides tactically he inherited mourinho's team and did nothing with it. CL final, he sticks essien, clearly our most driven midfielder, at right back, and gives malouda the nod despite the nondescript season he's had. of course, it's easy to criticise in hindsight, but the only real tactical slip up ranieri made was against monaco in our first CL semi and he's remembered for it, to the extent that despite all the speculation at the time and courting of eriksson, that is believed to have been the managerial performance that sealed his fate (had he made the final, many say roman would have given him at least another season) and avram reached two finals and failed, and with different, more ambitious tactics, in keeping with his now forgotton promise of more attacking football - HA - might have fared differently. besides, his performance at the press conference after the everton game towards the end of the season was a total embarrassment, and the distinct lack of respect he got from the crowd at the bridge was not unwarranted in my book.

he'll get the brave lad obituaries now, because after all the stick he took from fans of all teams including chelsea and the press he still got to a domestic final, the CL final which jose never managed, and only came second in the league on the final day of the season, but he was one of the reasons mourinho left, a friend of the owner and his tenure the result of nepotism. it remains to be seen whether he'll get another role at the club, but even if he does i'm glad to see he won't be in charge of on the field matters, and hopefully he won't be at the club in an official capacity at all.

i think ten cate and arnesen could be lures for rijkaard, a man with integrity and a taste for attacking football, and i would be very happy if he were to take over. i also hope that stevey clarke stays in a coaching capacity; he's an ex player and despite his drab presence at press conferences he doesn't court controversy and he's an old face and a respected person, with a good relationship with the squad and good tactical acumen.

anyway, i think ronaldo will stay at united, concerning the storm surrounding him in the press; it would be hilarious if he left them, after the season he and they have just had, but it would be illogical; financially, and after winning the league and europe, in sporting terms too, united are pretty much the strongest club side in the world right now, so i can't see it personally.

weirdly enough, i remember a report in the evening standard which said we were fighting for his signature with united. it makes you wonder how his career and the recent nature of the premiership would have played out differently. that's the nature of the beast, i suppose.

Wow. It took me 22 minutes to decide is should not have posted that joke. It was horrible. For anyone who saw it. lol

Yeah, I cannot understand why Juliano Belletti was on the bench with Essien at right back in the final, but that's life.

As for Rijkaard, I think he is a very overrated manager. He failed to make the final of Euro 2000 when Holland was the host nation, achieved nothing of note at Sparta and when thrown ridiculous amounts of money at Barca has managed to go two seasons without a trophy and leave a team in tatters for Guardiola to try and mend. In fact, this season they finished about 20 points behind a very vulnerable Madrid side and third to a non-spectacular Villareal.

I see Tim Howard stated that Everton need to spend in order to crack the big 4, and he is correct. However, I think that it is better for Everton to keep hold of their tight fiscal policy and finish fifth and remain competitive with fourth than to blow 30 million on a couple of players who aren't good enough to achieve a move to one of the big four and hope that that brings them CL football, seeing as it doesn't make much sense.

Samir Nasri will go to Arsenal and Alexander Hleb will leave, and it looks like Wenger wants to wrap that up before the start of the Euros, perhaps in case he gets spotted by another big European club.

One of the more interesting rumours is that Sven Goran Erikkson is to take the Mexico post, who saw that one coming? It's also been said that Thaksin has lined Grant up as Erikkson's replacement, and he's a good coach - Mourinho was very scathing of him in yesterday's Observer, but that's to be expected from Mourinho, I guess.

Hiddink won't take the post and Mourinho will be going to Inter, I'd be pretty sure, and with Sven supposedly taking over at Mexico that just leaves Rijkaard and, the rank outsider, Hughes. There is no way Roman Abramovich would allow Hughes to take over despite the good job he has done at Blackburn, buying Santa Cruz for 8p and all that, so I reckon Rijkaard is a dead cert for the Chelsea post now but, I agree with Mossy's comments about his managerial pedigree.

If I became Chelsea coach I would bring with me a new politics of honesty and openness and we would win the league without diving or protesting at the referees or any of the disgraceful carry on of Didier Drogba in the CL final last week. Honesty is lacking in the modern game, and it's lacking in modern politics too, so come November when you enter the polling booth vote Obama for the change you deserve. Good night America!

Look at you Obama, your soccer discussion shows just how out of touch with REAL America you are. All this European football shows your true position, not as a patriot but as a Commie. I for one am able to enjoy a few beers and watch the Superbowl every year, due to my excellent state of health, but you, Obama, prefer to sip herbal tea and watch re-runs of the Cosby Show because you're black.

I see Tim Howard stated that Everton need to spend in order to crack the big 4, and he is correct. However, I think that it is better for Everton to keep hold of their tight fiscal policy and finish fifth and remain competitive with fourth than to blow 30 million on a couple of players who aren't good enough to achieve a move to one of the big four and hope that that brings them CL football, seeing as it doesn't make much sense.

Samir Nasri will go to Arsenal and Alexander Hleb will leave, and it looks like Wenger wants to wrap that up before the start of the Euros, perhaps in case he gets spotted by another big European club.

One of the more interesting rumours is that Sven Goran Erikkson is to take the Mexico post, who saw that one coming? It's also been said that Thaksin has lined Grant up as Erikkson's replacement, and he's a good coach - Mourinho was very scathing of him in yesterday's Observer, but that's to be expected from Mourinho, I guess.

Hiddink won't take the post and Mourinho will be going to Inter, I'd be pretty sure, and with Sven supposedly taking over at Mexico that just leaves Rijkaard and, the rank outsider, Hughes. There is no way Roman Abramovich would allow Hughes to take over despite the good job he has done at Blackburn, buying Santa Cruz for 8p and all that, so I reckon Rijkaard is a dead cert for the Chelsea post now but, I agree with Mossy's comments about his managerial pedigree.

If I became Chelsea coach I would bring with me a new politics of honesty and openness and we would win the league without diving or protesting at the referees or any of the disgraceful carry on of Didier Drogba in the CL final last week. Honesty is lacking in the modern game, and it's lacking in modern politics too, so come November when you enter the polling booth vote Obama for the change you deserve. Good night America!

Mr. Obama, please leave our thread. We are predominantly Brits and do not give a toss about the 'politics of change' as evidenced by the fact we have voted this Labour government in for three successive terms despite them being incompetent and grossly overpaid fuckwits.

Same applies to you, Mr. McCain. You should be ashamed of yourself, bringing all your personal jibes into an innocent thread about the beautiful game. What's next, will you be going to join forces with ironhide and fabricate a story about Obama being a closet 'raghead' out to destroy the US?

This thread should be about football only, politicians need not apply.

Labour haven't been too bad man, and the Tories are the same party anyway, voting Conservative for change? The clue's in the name. I accept though that post-Blair, Brown has cut a meek leader but as far as actual legislation goes, the only really bad one lately was the 10p tax band. I am a leftist, but since New Labour = pre Thatcher Tories and current Tories are almost identical, I couldn't care less who wins the next general election, barring my predilection for David Miliband. I like public work schemes though, even if it goes against my overall political outlook, so gj Tories for that.

Uh, football is great!

Man, to be honest they're all riding the same post-Thatcher boat, New Labour and Dave the Tory are both significantly to the right (economically and socially) of the pre-Maggie Tories and are in fact virtually indistinguishable for the most part. I'd never vote Tory though, mostly because, ew.

However, I will give Dave minor kudos if, when he gets in (which he will), he gets rid of the ID Card scheme. That will be a plus.

grant got what he deserved. he did not change the style of play one iota, he spent 15m on a striker and played him as a winger, and bottled out making a big decision and putting one of the best midfielders in europe(essien) where he belonged and instead put him at right back.

it was this lack of guts that cost chelsea more then anything against man yoo. essien might be a goliath in midfield, but ronaldo ruthlessly exposed him at right back. he had zero influence on the players and their indiscipline(drogba) cost them dear also.

also, �5m for 8 months work! jesus.

being fair though, he seems like a decent human being and mourhino's attack on him proves what a classless diaego cunt he really is.

USA! USA! USA!

We done good tonight guys at the home of football, you can hold you heads high!

The American soccer team is pathetic, Obama. Soccer is a pathetic sport.

What the team lacks in talent, it more than makes up for with true American spirit.

And blacks.

Why you son of a

:rolleyes:

Wow. It took me 22 minutes to decide is should not have posted that joke. It was horrible. For anyone who saw it. lol

sounds like a classic. put it up!


Yeah, I cannot understand why Juliano Belletti was on the bench with Essien at right back in the final, but that's life.

As for Rijkaard, I think he is a very overrated manager. He failed to make the final of Euro 2000 when Holland was the host nation, achieved nothing of note at Sparta and when thrown ridiculous amounts of money at Barca has managed to go two seasons without a trophy and leave a team in tatters for Guardiola to try and mend. In fact, this season they finished about 20 points behind a very vulnerable Madrid side and third to a non-spectacular Villareal.

i didn't know he was manager at 2000, and i don't remember much of that tourno, and at barca he was given an embarrassment of riches but he seems to have an air of quiet dignity about him, and i can't remember a case of controversy or outspoken arrogance surrounding him - like say the storm surrounding our CL ties with barca, seems so long ago now - and besides, he had them playing some of the best football in europe for 2 seasons, and CL winners. he also retained the respect of the supporters, cheered during his final home game last season, even though they lost to mallorca. it is evident though that he lost control of the big egos in ronaldinho, edmilson, eto'o and so forth, and they did indeed not win a single trophy for 2 seasons. not the best manager then, but someone i would still like to see at chelsea, for aforementioned reasons

we've sacked avram and he rejected his old director of footie job, surprisingly, and now we've sacked ten cate too, despite giving them both massive long term contracts, and we've also signed ivanovic for 9 million, anelka for 15, sidwell for something in ivanovic's region and others and barely played them; i don't suppose egghead supercunt kenyon and yesman yankeesuit buck and tennebaum and the other board members will turn around and admit gross incompetence and false promises regarding the apparent wish to turn the club into a self sustaining business model; united may be run and played for by fucking cunts but they do it the right way and know how to build success slowly, confidently and with drive; roman meanwhile makes snap judgements and throws cash at people for poorly thought out reasons and we've now gone a season without winning a trophy and if the exodus takes place in the dressing room, and especially if steve clarke follows to the exit door as apparently he is said to want to do to pursue being a manager, which he'll likely do well as, we'll continue to stagnate under the weight of disharmony and petulant egos. perhaps we should just appoint him; he knows his shit, is popular and knows the club well. it wont happen, unfortunately.

fact is we haven't really been run very well since early 2000s. mourinho delivered great success but most of his key players were already here and he only signed a few lasting successes, and throughout his tenure we overspent, were fined and in conflict with coaches, authorities and other clubs and did ourselves no favours in the press. now mancini has been sacked by inter as expected, and he's a volatile prick with a siege mentality style of management and i hope and pray against it but i'm pretty sure chelsea will appoint him.


USA! USA! USA!

We done good tonight guys at the home of football, you can hold you heads high!

our lowest points as a national team seem to coincide with fixtures against you. the defeat in the 50's; a friendly in 94 when we last lost to you and didn't qualify for the world cup; and the friendly last night, not a warm up for the euros as a year ago everyone would have expected, even under mclaren.

we played well, at least after we got going, and yanks were dire, nervous and lacking in imagination. we need to give more fringe players a chance to break into the side though, in this time of no major tournament qualification, to keep the big players on their toes and shake things up a little. i like everyone being named as a sub though, and capello should do great things with us (good to see pearcey involved too) happy for JT with the goal, and the gerrard goal was nicely worked too. barry is the best choice to partner gerrard in the middle, more then carrick or hargreaves or lampard. young should be given a chance on the wing


And blacks.

'much adu about nothing' i bet lawro was fucking bursting for the chance to say that, and when it came, he sounded so smug and self satisfied, as if he perhaps thought he was original, despite the fact that everyone watching the game probably said it to themselves the moment he came on. fucking alcoholic cunt.

fucking alcoholic cunt.

Hahaha, I read the whole post and got to this and started to laugh. GJ!

Yeah Lawro should fuck off really.

I watched the first half yesterday but even after a goal I didn't have the desire to watch the second. England just bore the tits off me at the moment. And I keep seeing people say that Rooney played some good balls in the first half that "lamost" worked. Actually they didn't look that good to me, they'd never hace got through the defence to Defoe. He's definitely lost something lately.

They must be fucked playing right after the hardest time of a long season though. Why are they even playing these friendlies? Particularly if the yanks aren't even going to bother to show up. Really dire stuff from them.

I think England need to realise that unless they build a youth excellence centre (or hey, how about two?) and get kids in at 10/11 and show them using foreign coaching techniques or retired overseas coaches how to pass the ball, particularly under pressure and using one-touch, they're not going to get anywhere near the rest of the world.

And maybe play a lot of the stuff on smaller pitches. I've lost count of the times I've seen kids as young as seven playing on virtually full sized pitches. Get them used to controlling the ball and making space on a smaller scale first.

And it might not hurt to train indoors at times, and take the conditions out of the equation first. The wind blows on average 10mph more over here than it does in say Spain and Italy. That's not going to help us when we're over there.

Failing that, they should start getting young English lads over to academies on the continent, just like Arsenal have done with a lot of young overseas kids. Like Hargreaves now, he's benefited for years of working with a regimented German outfit. And he's one of the best around in his position, imo.

Seriously, this is pretty much the only way England are going to move forward and compete on an international level IF they don't play the Premiership way and try to out think and out pass the opposition.

i like anelka he is very good on my pro evo wii team. best player by far.

pro evo for the wii is really weird at first. it's pretty good but you can't direct your shots! not directly anyways, which is sort of bullshit. free kicks you just swing and it does it on auto, which sucks too, free kicks used to rock. but you get a lot more control on passing from frees/corners. i think defending works a lot better, it is actually harder though imo. off ball player control in general is a lot more involved, can play the offside trap too. passing is pretty great in the game. had to go down to three stars at the start because it was so different, on 4 nearly, almost ready for 5. no master league though, the champions road ml replacement is alright. nothing like the drama and fun of the ml, though. basically lots of separate small 4-8 game tournaments with a team you build, but the team building is rubbish, you actually pick cards from teams you defeat, turn it over and it corresponds to the player. they still have the players if you meet again, too. and you can go on to play international teams, and this is really sad of me but that genuinely irks me. it's an okay diversion, i would much prefer classic ml instead of/in addition to it though.

all in all i am happy, got it for 40 euro but i could probably do with that money now as i do like to eat, but still. yeah that is only sort of related to football, but i love pro evo. i know a lot of people are out of love with PES these days, or mossy at least, but i am still a huge pro evo nerd.

I think England need to realise that unless they build a youth excellence centre (or hey, how about two?) and get kids in at 10/11 and show them using foreign coaching techniques or retired overseas coaches how to pass the ball, particularly under pressure and using one-touch, they're not going to get anywhere near the rest of the world.


Aye, this has been my point. All the best countries have youth footballing academies, even a second world country like Brazil has one of the best centres in the world, so there's no real excuse for England not to have one. They've been left behind to a degree and I don't think the 6+5 thing would really help English players any more than it would see the quality of the Premier League decline as a result. If English players were as good as the Italians or the Spanish, they would make up more of the average squad seeing as those nations have no problems. My opinion anyhow.

Ireland has the same problem; lack of investment in youth + youth policy involving stealing mediocre English players with Irish grandparents = a travesty of team. At least the Northern players are from the North even if they aren't exactly world beaters.


i know a lot of people are out of love with PES these days, or mossy at least, but i am still a huge pro evo nerd.

I just think that after PES5 they made it too arcade-y with the newer ones. Maybe on the Wii it is good though, I don't know, I never play my Wii. I will probably buy Mario Kart and Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid and Wario and maybe PES though and play it some more.

I haven't played a Pro Evo game since PES5. I am considering getting a new one though, just to get some updated squads. It is a pain in the arse continually updating these, particularly for club teams.

I personally think the 6+5 rule will help in many ways, though it probably still won't make England world beaters. What it should do though, is ensure more competitive leagues, as teams will not just be able to buy multi-national super-squads anymore as they will need a core of home-grown players. And I think everyone is agreed that the Premiership is starting to get a bit boring, so I am personally in favour of the idea.

Don't do it Ceidwad! PES5 is the best! It's only two problems are the AI does stupid runs a lot and the referees are too lenient especially about carding last men when you're on the attack, but it is almost perfect bar that. The newer ones are basically FIFA without the licences, and FIFA is bad!

I remain fond of the idea of an international salary cap.

up te sdalary cao!!

salary cups in nba ruin the fun of loaded teams

you sure you want that top cat?

this shit with Ronaldo EVERY FUCKING DAY is getting very annoying.

make a bid for him, or dont you spanish cunts. get it over with.

Exactly. Though, tbh. If they are willing to pay �50 million for him. They can have him as far as i am concerned. He isnt worth it though, so it would be a good deal for us. Though my money would be on him staying put.

Just how many 'great EURO 2008 players' will be signed after the tournament and turn out to be absolutely SHIT?

taking all bets!

Hahaha, I read the whole post and got to this and started to laugh. GJ!

yeah, sorry about the epic posts i come out with, i don't post for a while but then spew as long winded and drawn out as possible, bad habit. and lawro deserves NO MERCY.


Yeah Lawro should fuck off really.

I watched the first half yesterday but even after a goal I didn't have the desire to watch the second. England just bore the tits off me at the moment. And I keep seeing people say that Rooney played some good balls in the first half that "lamost" worked. Actually they didn't look that good to me, they'd never hace got through the defence to Defoe. He's definitely lost something lately.

i think he's lost his temper, on a regular basis, and in a way that really makes him look bad. the way he reacted to being subbed during a FRIENDLY was quite astonishing.


And maybe play a lot of the stuff on smaller pitches. I've lost count of the times I've seen kids as young as seven playing on virtually full sized pitches. Get them used to controlling the ball and making space on a smaller scale first.

good points all around but this one stood out for me... brazil have made more then one seperate sport out of this concept, futsal being the main one, and it's what promotes the close control and skill that makes them world beaters and the sport attractive.


i like anelka he is very good on my pro evo wii team. best player by far.

he's good on pro evo 4 too, great shooting and close control


I personally think the 6+5 rule will help in many ways, though it probably still won't make England world beaters. What it should do though, is ensure more competitive leagues, as teams will not just be able to buy multi-national super-squads anymore as they will need a core of home-grown players. And I think everyone is agreed that the Premiership is starting to get a bit boring, so I am personally in favour of the idea.

6 + 5 rule sounds good as a basic premise and everyone supports the idea but it contravenes euro law and to be honest it sounds very insular and like mossy suggests, it wouldn't get to the root of the problems in grassroots development in each country, although it could perhaps prompt a development more effectively


this shit with Ronaldo EVERY FUCKING DAY is getting very annoying.

make a bid for him, or dont you spanish cunts. get it over with.

that's the real madrid media machine that ferguson criticised; it unsettles and tempts and wears everyone down effectively because of the blanket influence it has in the public arena. huntelaars agent criticised it and real today for the same thing and they've been trying to get kaka and did it with robben in the same way.


Just how many 'great EURO 2008 players' will be signed after the tournament and turn out to be absolutely SHIT?

taking all bets!

it's a risk many clubs will continue to take - see the senegalese that flooded england after their world cup in 02, to mixed success - because players will play out of their skins in such a public high profile arena, trying to get the big opportunity and the big club transfer, but it of course pays dividends only half the time at best. it's more important to have a good scouting network with good contacts, connections, partnerships with clubs, and a generally good eye for talent and character, examples being wenger, hughes etc.

on the subject of hughes, jarosik, are you disappointed at his departure, and more so at the news of big sam being linked with the new rovers job? i think it was a bad move on hughes' part because despite the money and the quality of player, thaksin was illogical in kicking sven out, after the season they had; if hughes doesn't work miracles then he could see the same premature demise. about blackburn, do you think they will go into a decline?

euro 08 opening day -

the swiss were pretty impotent, in the way rangers were last season - full of beans and drive but not much creativity or actual talent, besides barnetta and yakin, and they seemed sluggish and uninspired passing the ball. still, vonlanthen - or yakin, whoever - should have scored from cech's save, instead hitting the bar. the fans were simultaneously poor, unable to rouse their teams. the fact that the czechs were as lacking in ideas and cutting edge was surprising as they're usually inspired, but they missed injured rosicky and retired nedved, smicer, lokvenc etc. and koller looked exhausted, probably because he's the size of a tank and needs the constant food supply of a small nation to keep him going. the goal which won them the match was good

the evening match between portugal and turkey was louder and better supported and the quality from both sides was a gear higher, and i felt sorry for turkey - the portugeuse defenders really worked the ref, hitting the deck under every little shove and stunting the high balls turkey tried to feed, although that snidey fairy culture is something they've perfected over decades, copying the south americans; kazim richards looked great for fenerbahce in the CL last season against sevilla and chelsea, and he was masterful here; england could use someone with his strength and composure. they didn't really fail apart from the two goals they conceded; they seemed to stand off pepe though, and his goal was a good one that typified portugal's play. they're a lot like ze germans in that respect; despicable, arrogant cunts to a man, but they play fucking great football, and they deserve their wins - the same applies to italy but they usually don't even play well enough to at least deserve their successes. moutinho and bosingwa looked really good. the itv commentary was insipid and tiresome with their 2 hour long ronaldowank though.

i'm scared for poland tomorrow, i think germany will turn them over. if they play like they CAN, then they stand a chance, but the last 2 world cups saw them play some pretty sweet football in qualifying, and then revert to cautious uninspired fail at the actual event they worked so hard to qualify for. a draw would be a great result for us.

Mostly agree with what Will said regarding the first day, though I don't think the Czechs are particularly likely to figure prominently in this tournament. They haven't been particularly good for a while now, and when we played them in the qualifiers I thought they were mediocre in comparison to the Germans.

Mostly agree with what Will said regarding the first day, though I don't think the Czechs are particularly likely to figure prominently in this tournament. They haven't been particularly good for a while now, and when we played them in the qualifiers I thought they were mediocre in comparison to the Germans.

yeah, the old generation of berger, poborsky, nedved, smicer, lokvenc etc. had a lot of quality about them but since they retired very few big players have filled their standard, jankulovski can't do too much from a full back position, koller's too big and slow to work off anything other then pinpoint service and baros is also a big game, big team player, as well as feeding off scraps. rosicky has that extra class but without him they will struggle, i honestly think turkey will pip them to second place.

right, today's group games -

croatia started brightly and they have a good, confident and spritely squad of players who know how to move the ball around; bilic is a cool bloke and a good manager; the penalty and lead was deserved, but they do like to roll around like pigs in mud when they get fouled, and austria played quite well progressively, and were unlucky not to get anything out of the match, but the reason they didn't was simply a lack of finishing touch; they were good with the long passes, but no end product, and a shame, as their fans gave them a good atmosphere and their effort deserved some reward. the way croatia tired so alarmingly is encouraging when considering poland's chances in the matches against these two

they were a lot like turkey were against portugal in the evening match with germany; clearly adept with the ball, a high standard of player; at least in their goalkeeper and midfield and attack; the defence was shocking and it's the same story as the last two world cups; cautious, nervous and uninspired going forward, technically sound but unimaginative; and let down by amateur defending. the offside line was quite frankly embarrassing, and germany deserved their goals. they were imperious, and deserved more goals, although i thought smolarek's goal was perhaps onside, but they didn't appeal vociferously and as such didn't get any joy. krzynowek was also poor, and him and lewandowski really shouldnt have shot so pointlessly at every opportunity. a familiar situation then, and beenhaker has a lot of work to do to rouse our boys. credit to both sets of fans though, and grudging respect to ze fuckin germans, for great confident and strong football and finally to podolski for refraining from celebration; i keep imagining sadly our team with him and klose but we need to look forward to croatia and austria and to learn from this defeat.

yes, i'll be posting after every round of matches, bitches.

da Jormans were good. Frings never ever stops running and Lahm is class at rb. They are pretty fit and have a lot of goals in their team. Poland played their part but fell short. They will push Croatia though.

Croatia were pretty dissappointing compared to the side that basically owned England and didnt look very fit at all.

I've been bleating on about how Liverpool really really need to sign Lahm for an age now. So much so that every time I mention his name in conjunction with a move to Anfield, I have to get a round in.

But it's truths. It's out wide where we're suffering. Naturally if Alonso goes we need Barry to replace, but apart from maybe another world class striker, we need to strength the extremities. Lahm, Alves, Quaresma, Ashton and Young would be my choices.

I just hope he doesn't make the Houllier cardinal sin of buying players based on International Championship performances. Diouf and Diao anyone?

Also, with regard to the Euro's and BBC's insistance that we choose a team to follow, I'm Romanian for the month. Just because I generally go for the underdog, and how tough is it on them.

"Dah dah, ve do gut. Ve qualify for finals of major contest for first time in years. Gut-gut! I go now to grup draw.....vot dah fuk!?! Give a break, fuk sake!"

Also, Romanians apparantly have Ger-Russian accents.

=/

Well well well, Chelsea have no manager and everyone the media proclaims they approach has turned them down, what a sad state of affairs, seems i won't even know the team I support next season as Jose's team gets completely renovated, even looks like Drogba is off to AC Milan, and god knows who else is going to be gotten rid of, and it pains me the way Lampards future is unknown for the club.. Then again I'm not one to listen to the Medias proclamations so will ignore it all and see what happens at the start of the season.

Though if anything, why haven't any english premier league clubs noticed the power that is Sergio Aguero? He's 19 yet he has the skills that Number 9 Ronaldo had when he was on peak form, who knows what he will be like at 21? and with the trend for teams to buy in youngsters for the "future" I have no idea why no one has had any interest in him so far..

And as for the Euro, I like how the BBC has scammed us into still watching the Euro even when England were out, I mean they did spend millions on getting the rights to show it way in advance to knowing who would win, so I dont blame them, what a waste of money it would have been, but then i'm going for France I suppose, for Malouda, Makelele, Anelka, but now Ive realised that 3 of the 4 main defenders for portugal play for Chelsea! Ferreira, Carvalho, and the newly signed Bosingwa, what a sight, might be keeping an eye on that!

would you want to work for those cunts?

sure, you'll get piles of cash but i dont think i could stick 5 minutes with Kenyon without wanting to plunge a dagger into his black heart.

da Jormans were good. Frings never ever stops running and Lahm is class at rb. They are pretty fit and have a lot of goals in their team. Poland played their part but fell short. They will push Croatia though.

Croatia were pretty dissappointing compared to the side that basically owned England and didnt look very fit at all.

poland faltered in the same way as in the last 2 world cups, and after such good qualifications. hopefully they'll recover and get into the QF at least. all that hype... it's not over yet though.

croatia have a good young side and a great manager but everyone's bleating about them being dark horses because they beat our pathetic NT in that symbolically atrocious last hurdle fall in qualification. i'll wait until the group is over before i proclaim them to be not that good, however; i don't want to jynx them in case they turn poland over =/

and yeah, even as a chelsea fan i would love a chance to cave kenyonn's skull in, or at least spit in his manc face. he's only the most shamelessly public vampire though. and look at all the billionaire owners popping up now; some small town german club called hoffenheim got bankrolled by one and hey presto they're in the bundesliga. and uefa cup winners zenit of course; and... fucking qpr. =/


I've been bleating on about how Liverpool really really need to sign Lahm for an age now. So much so that every time I mention his name in conjunction with a move to Anfield, I have to get a round in.

lahm was excellent at the last world cup and he's looking good at this euro; i've never mentioned him because i don't watch the bundesliga; apparently, they've - consistently, for over a decade - got both the best stadium attendance record and the highest goalscoring record for a league in europe, so it's an untapped goldmine of a league and maybe i should give it a watch, despite my natural aversion to the land of efficiency and kraut.

anyway i'm surprised that alonso actually wants to leave; barry would be an adequate replacement but i'm not so sure he'll make the move.


Though if anything, why haven't any english premier league clubs noticed the power that is Sergio Aguero? He's 19 yet he has the skills that Number 9 Ronaldo had when he was on peak form, who knows what he will be like at 21? and with the trend for teams to buy in youngsters for the "future" I have no idea why no one has had any interest in him so far..

hey nph, still going wherever god takes you?

i would like to see the back of drogba to be honest, and others like malouda; milan look like his next club, and they'll be even more annoying with him up front. i do hope lampard stays though, despite shooting and losing the ball too often; same goes for carvalho despite again losing the ball too often and cynical tackles; we're still a stronger side with them; and as for the euros, i don't see the problem with the beeb and itv screening it with or without england; i mean they screen the italian league and the fuckin african nations among other things. besides, would you rather see a mclaren led england spoiling this tournament? finally aguero... i think atletico signed him up on one of those insane lifetime spanish contracts with clauses that ask for the budget of a small country to steal him away

on to tonight's games, and it's the group of death -

there's a bracket of top european sides whose players populate the top clubs, have the history, power brokers, training facilities etc. and outside of that bracket, the czechs are usually the main 'dark horse' side, but i've already waffled about absent class players. cech's another one who like jankulovski can't do too much from his position. grygera and ujfalusi were just poor. anyway, point is, my dark horse *would* instead be romania, but i'll wait until their next result before i say they will; they showed by far the most technical ability and composure - daniel niculae up front for example, and of course mutu and chivu - of any of the dark horse sides who have played so far; france looked disorganised, insipid and lacking in confidence by comparison. i won't say romania *will* be the surprise package because of the way they played; negative and cynical, despite the obvious talent; apparently they played like that in qualifying; can't blame them, greece WON the last fuckin euro like this. still, i thought that this would be a case like denmarks in euro 2000; in a group with world champions france, co hosts holland and dark horses - snap - the czechs, a really solid team who finished with no points because fate landed them such a group of death.

as it happens, romania ACTUALLY STAND A CHANCE in this group of death. it's surprising to think that perenially challenging teams like france and italy, the world cup finalists last time around, would both start this group so poorly; but then that's the way they play; it's a complex amalgam of superiority assumptions and egos. lest we forget - bloody scotland pushed them both for qualification. anyway, holland, who romania qualified with hilariously enough, won with fucking aplomb tonight. it was a pleasure seeing them tear italy apart; it's weird how much they missed cannavaro, and holland did have some luck - horse's opening goal - but they deserved the win. i'd never even heard of engelaar, but he was masterful, as were everyone else in the holland side - confident, intricate, direct and driving forward with intent at every opportunity. sneijder and van bronckhorst's goals were superb. the best thing about this match was, apart from italy's defence, uncharacteristically, they were also pretty good; pirlo's free kick and the del piero shot just before it were both well saved and they only lost because they gave holland room to play, which they accepted with thanks.

anyway, match of the tournament so far, and hopefully as the teams settle into it it will continue to improve in quality. (and maybe i'll find a way to downsize my posts) safe

matterazi has the same top speed as an oil tanker.

"Association Football" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CXY6TVBMc)

It's rofl-tastic. :D

materazzi got a few sly ones in the face, i lold

seen that before ceidwad, genius; 'sandwiches?' charles charlie charles on the ball etc. lol

group D matches today -

if group C is the group of death then this is the group of intrigue; 4 strong, historically decent, currently talented teams. spain, who are criminal underachievers, and have only won the euros once, no world cups, the olympic football tournament in barcelona in 92 - against poland funnily enough; sweden, who got to the final of their hosted world cup in 58 and the semis in 94 and have qualified for the last 5 major tournaments; russia, who have two recent UEFA cup winning clubs, oligarch club owners coming out of the woodwork, euro wins as the soviet union and a talented squad; and the greeks of course, surprise winners at the last euro

the first match was an excellent spectacle and arguably the match of the tournament so far; the dutch italian encounter yesterday was high on quality and the defending in the spanish russian match was unlucky/poor at times, which led to the scoreline; but both teams showed a lot of quality on the ball - spain were outstanding, but russia were also assured, adventurous and confident, good attacking play and passing, unlucky to hit the post and when semak screwed up his chance to make it 2 3 near the end - and the scoreline reflected how enjoyable the match was. spain are rightly tipped as firm favourites to at least top the group now after their passing play and confident goalscoring. russia will need to work on their defending if they are to qualify

greece were insipid in their match with sweden; i remember hoping whoever got to the final out of them and the czechs beat those diving cunt portugeuse, really hurt them at their own tournament, and greece pulled it off, for the second time as they beat the hosts in the group stage too. i thought the czechs deserved a trophy for that masterful squad, but greece were a popular underdog winner. their passing among the back 3 was horrendous today though, and exemplified their negative, cynical approach; it would have taken a goal of zlatan's quality to break them down at last, and it was sweet when it came. sweden look good despite the attractive style they place i hope the cossacks fall behind the swedes and the scandanavian warriors progress. they made a few careless passes that needed desperate defending to stop the greeks scoring, and looked shaky on occasion; they'll need to address that to do well.

anyway, i think everyone's tip for favourites is accurate; the germans look comfortably strong, the portugeuse full of guile and imagination, the dutch looked similar and more confident then usual and the spanish today were irresistable; villa and torres were masterful up front and the midfield passed the ball wonderfully all match. it's encouraging to see the quality of football slowly improve, and the lack of red cards in this first round is also pleasing; the refs have been good so far - if ruud's goal was technically onside then the itys can shut up because it's their fault they didn't read the rule book - and it's shaping up to be a good tournament. austria and switzerland will both need to pull miracles off to progress in their tournament though.

Source: nufc.com


Writing in Tuesday's Mirror, the usually reliable Alan Nixon has updated the Joey Barton story - but seems to have ignored the fact that the midfielder faces a further court case - with the threat of another custodial sentence:

Joey Barton put his future on the line last night by rejecting Newcastle's demand for a �30,000-a-week pay cut - pushing Toon towards sacking him.

The jailed midfielder, 25, is unhappy that he is being asked to give up �6million during the remainder of his contract in a measure that smacks of saving money as much as punishment.

Barton refused to speak to Newcastle officials yesterday when they gave him a 'sign or else' ultimatum - and the Scouser is prepared to stand his ground.

Barton missed the deadline to accept Newcastle's offer of a revised deal - and now the Toon management will startthe process of terminating his contract.

However Barton will not take that lying down, despite serving a six-month sentence in Liverpool's Walton jail.

Sources close to him say he feels the penalty is far too high - and he doubts Newcastle's motives for coming up with the pay cut suggestion.

The fact that Toon offered him a deal to stay weakens their hand if they try to sack him, especially as he could be out of prison for pre-season.

This follows the appearance of quotes in the Sunday Mirror from Newcastle Chairman Chris Mort last weekend:

"We are in discussion with his representatives about what is best for the club going forward.

"Obviously, we are not going to ignore the fact that he is currently in jail. It is too early to say whether Joey being sacked is a possible outcome but we are talking about what the future holds."

No mention of this has been made officially by NUFC.

PS: a few people have asked us about whether any provision was made in either the transfer of Barton from Manchester City or the players' own contract to cover the Dabo court case.

To the best of our knowledge, this question has been asked by journalists but no on-the-record reply from either of the clubs or the player has ever been published.

yay!

yeah, apparently keegan was keen to keep him at the club too; better that the fucking cunt's career crashes and burns. make an example of his behaviour.

'big phil' scolari is the new chelsea boss. i'm not pleased, to say the least. i'd have even prefered mancini to that fat cunt. he's as bad as eriksson. i suppose the signing of bosingwa, as good as that lad is, was a precursor. carvalho will probably stay now, but he'll bring his big fucking mouth and arrogance to a club and squad who would be better off shedding it instead of adding some more on top

right, group A, round 2

portugal v czech republic was a good game, with attacking flair and intent throughout, and developed nicely. portugal's first goal showed their desire more then anything, and deco will be happy after he voiced his intention to finish the group off in this match and dominate before the match and scoring the opening goal; but the czechs had quite a bit about them, much more then during the opener against the swiss, and deserved their equaliser, a good header from sionko who played well all match and had a good headed chance just before portugal took the second lead. ronaldo's goal was great though, quick break, driven cross and first time shot, and then was unselfish in letting quaresma finish after the czechs pushed valiantly for a second leveller. the portugeuse did show a little of the petulance and disgusting niggly frustration that makes them sore losers but they were still a worthy winner. the czechs will push the turks for second place though

the second match was hilarious once is started tipping it down; the swiss, like the pundits pointed out, adapted to the drenched pitch a lot better and yakin's opener was deserved if comical, although he should have put away that second chance he got, in the same position and everything. the conditions helped create that turkish chance off the post and plenty of funny sliding around and stunted dribbling but both sides seemed more adjusted in the second half; they both showed a lot of grit and attacking intention and it made for a cool spectacle; the ref had a hard job but i think he did well to prevent any major scuffles between the teams after that world cup qualifier fight; the turkish equaliser was deserved too but poorly parried by the keeper, and the the winner was unlucky for the swiss because of the deflection. the swiss are out but deserve some credit; the final game between the turks and czechs is an interesting knife edge while the portuguese will doubtless rest the biggest names for the quarter final.

i'm worried for poland again tomorrow; this major tournament pattern is familiar with poland staring elimination with a defeat to austrian players promised a life time supply of beer for goals; hopefully we'll beat the cunts like the croatians did and the krauts will stuff those balkan twats. no predictions; till tomorrow

would you want to work for those cunts?

sure, you'll get piles of cash but i dont think i could stick 5 minutes with Kenyon without wanting to plunge a dagger into his black heart.

Scolari is now to be exact :loldata:

Headline on football365.com


Europe Laughs As Croatia Beat Complacent Germans

fucking roffletastic.

group B

everyone will know by now that the croatians beat ze germans 2 1 today; i wrote the croatians off as a decent side with a hype accredited to them by a media trying to explain our failure to qualify; they did play excellently and confidently in that game at wembley though; and here they played SUPERBLY. they had an attitude and confidence and urgency and technical ability that frustrated the germans; THIS is how we poles should have played against them. they put men behind the ball and surrounded attackers and stood their ground when the germans thumped crosses in; NOT a ridiculous high line that left boruc hopelessly exposed. they unsettled the germans with their movement and the first goal was superb, and although the second was lucky they had loads of fuckin chances; well done to them, a deserved victory.

now onto our insipid, disgusting draw with the austrians, a game characterised by both teams' sizeable and admirable support and their almost inverse inability TO PLAY FUCKING FOOTBALL. we looked even more ragged and tired and unfit and unaware and out of position in defence then against ze germans and they had 4 insanely good chances that they spurned before our goal, through misses and heroics from the brilliant boruc. our goal was offside but in the melee it wasn't spotted and it was apt that guerreiro, who was our best outfield player, got the finishing touch. he sang the anthem, was full of enterprise and tricks and never stopped running. the other end of the scale - our entire defence and dudka the def mid, who were really fucking embarrassingly out-of-place poor, and jacek I-LOOK-LIKE-A-PIG-WITH-DOWNS-SYNDROME krzynowek, who shot every motherfucking time he got the fucking ball in the first half, and then ran it into the corner instead of crossing early in the second half. we took guerreiro off, bak and whoever had handbags and a tenuous pen was given; neither team will qualify anyway.

we played great football in the qualifiers. WE FUCKING BEAT PORTUGAL. how the fucking cunt did we go from that to this sort of performance? what is it about major tournaments that turns our national team into a bunch of aimless, talentless cunts? so much build up in poland, so many supporters in austria, and nothing to be proud of. what a waste.

anyway, i'll continue to post essays that probably none of you will read about the tournament as it continues. bonjour plonkers

im reading them all.

I really really want the Germans to win this whole thing and I have no rational idea why.

Bloody Croats.

Also, go Howard "I am the only remotely English thing about this tournament" Webb, go go go!

Will, if you didn't post so much in blocks and actually got to the point a bit more, I'd probably be able to read your posts in detail rather than just skim over them as I do now.

Anyway, it was a penalty last night, and Austria deserved their draw, and I am happy because at least one host has a shout at getting to the quarter-finals.

Minty, I don't like the Croats either. Their coach wears earrings. What a chump!

They played well yesterday, but I still think they're somewhat over-rated, although the big sides will probably choke later on and I wouldn't be that surprised if Croatia won the thing.

I like the Croats

Krancjar :)

fuck me holland are quick on the break.

moonlapse hope you enjoy them, i'll try not to rehash pundit commentary too much

soft as it was and as much as it hurt to watch, webb was entitled to give that pen, bak was a daft cunt for holding shirt at all. what the polish prime minister and beenhaker have been saying since... wtf? you think they'd have more sense? PR advice? what a fuckin embarrassment.

ceidwad, point taken

group C round 2 -

i only saw the buildup to romania italy, watched the highlights after holland france, but it looked pretty good, high tempo, quality passing, loads of chances. itv and bbc banged on about the chance italy would drop out; did they really expect romania to win? in the event, they nearly did, after such a defensive display v frogs. buffon's save was great, zambrotta's back pass was silly, surprised a player of his class lost his awareness so easily. press barracking and nerves must have unsettled the italians. good match

that was nothing compared to holland france. the kuijt goal just emphasized how unfair the stick he gets is and what a cunt malouda is. the french looked arrogant and slow like against gypos but they started cutting the dutch apart either side of the break and it was nice to see an even contest with plenty of chances; the dutch don't nullify attacks, blocking and saving instead, but their attacking was incredible, great goals, ruud played really well and everyone else seemed like a well oiled machine. henry's goal was good but the dutch mean business; sneijder's goal was the fucking icing.

GO ORANJE etc.

hmm, shrine's back, sweet.

erm, nice to see all the attacking teams doing well, besides those hairy toothed turks. adrian chiles must be crying into his oneshow cohosts really attractive boobs because i reckon he's well into her (he's always got his arm around the back of the sofa. cosy.)

russia holland should be a blinder today. also c ronaldo < anyone who possesses the power of logic.

Turkey are the new Greece.

I am going down to my local betting shop and sticking a tenner on them to win while the odds are still half decent, because after last night I swear they are destined to win the thing.

And I think the Dutch will win tonight, but Russia have certainly improved since the first game and if they play like that in the World Cup 2010 qualifiers we'll have no chance of getting through the group. Heck, they might even beat Germany to the first place.

It will be a cracking game though, whatever happens. Pity it's on ITV.

CHILES IS BACK SWEET

he looks like an angry pig but he's the apple of irish oneshow lass's eye and he's got his comedy timing spot on.

the cossacks deserved it, they were fucking awesome tonight. i am not enjoying how poorly all my favourite teams are exiting - england couldn't even qualify and poland were depressing from my countries, and other favourites the czechs, croats and dutch all sucked in nervous defeat - but the drama is superb and the attacking teams are being rewarded - with the exception of the dutch and portugeuse, who got nervous and screwed up. the russians played some wonderful stuff and they all look really accomplished players, they're all russian based but i wouldn't be surprised if some of them went west, arshavin says he's interested and anyone with sense should be.

the turks wouldn't be out of place in the final, it's some fairytale but i'd actually prefer a krautrocking final, minus the mafia too plz.

also why did the shrine die, wtf. anyway good night

Fuck Portugal. Fuck it up its well-toned, Latin ass. I'd pay good money, and I mean good money, to see that stupid fucking goalkeeper and Scolari get run over.

I hope Russia wins this thing.

Welcome back Espanha!

ricardo? he fancies himself as some sort of buccaneer after v england pens euro 04 - and gives us oscar winning strops and fights off the waterworks with every goal he concedes. he also looks like michael corleone al pacino, but if he was a little thick.

the sad thing is portugal played really well against germany, creating plenty of chances, and were only undone by clinical german finishing and confidence, and really poor defending on all 3 conceded goals combined with an inability to finish and shooting wildly when in good positions - nani was the worst culprit.

still, they're also whinging, swan-diving faggots so good riddance, and the same can be said for the italians, who disgraced themselves last night. in proving that penalties follow no patterns and are no more then a lottery of confidence and composure they also played the villains in a victory for football (bbc pundits nailed it for once). spain will need to up the ante to beat russia again. turkey will be the luckiest team in football history if they make the final.

neo nazi german fans seig heiling and germany uber allesing, can't keep good cunts down can you. i wonder if any of them have secret magazine cutouts or favourites links of interviews with odonkor or asamoah. considering fan numbers over there there's been very little reported trouble though; fans have looked good and numerous in the stadiums too.

28 games so far and already 68 goals, among them only one free kick and 3 penalties to my knowledge; sweet! this has been the best euro since 96 IMO

I wouldn't have such a big problem with Ricardo if he didn't go for the ball every fucking time it's even remotely near him, like it's made of gold or something. He always does that and leaves himself wide open. Twice it happened against Germany. Fuck the guy and fuck Scolari. he's been with us for years and still he keeps on using that goddamned monkey.

Also, thanks, Ceidwad!

Arshavin makes me wet.

This seems to be a tournament for goalkeeper clangers.

Still, Nikopolidis's cock-up was ten times worse than anything Ricardo has done.

those damn Jurmuns. poor Turkey :(

I wouldn't have such a big problem with Ricardo if he didn't go for the ball every fucking time it's even remotely near him, like it's made of gold or something. He always does that and leaves himself wide open. Twice it happened against Germany. Fuck the guy and fuck Scolari. he's been with us for years and still he keeps on using that goddamned monkey.

Also, thanks, Ceidwad!

he's got a big head and it gets him into trouble at key moments. he should have kept klose's header out but i think you should be more scathing of ferreira, pepe, carvalho, petit, nani etc. you a portugeezer? don't worry, i'm english born - i'm glad mclaren's team failed - and polish; we beat you in the qualifiers but then did much worse then you at the actual tournament.


This seems to be a tournament for goalkeeper clangers.

Still, Nikopolidis's cock-up was ten times worse than anything Ricardo has done.

it was hilarious, but rustu did the exact same thing against croatia, off the hook following semih's equaliser. cech's was inexplicable. lehmann's a cunt so i'm glad he took a confidence bashing today, but rustu failed again on klose's goal.


those damn Jurmuns. poor Turkey :(

i'm actually glad those filthy hairy turkish cunts are out, mainly because i like the czechs and croatia, bilic, chiles etc. i admire turkey for their heroics though. they recovered from the portugal defeat in the second half against the swiss; yakin missed an open goal, but the turks played their constant pressure game and arda's deflected winner was lucky but deserved. against the czechs, entire second half, czechs let the turks play and although lucky with cech's clanger, they always looked like they were going to break through at some point, constant pressure. olic should have scored in the first half of the quarter, but again credit semih's equaliser.

their discipline was a letdown though. 17 cards, including a red, poor. ze germs are getting a hiding for their performance but even though it was disjointed and poor, they still won with good goals. credit. great competition too, 73 goals in 29 games, WOW WOW WEE WOW

also http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=551086&cc=5739 oh lol wtf

so spain germany; an intriguing final to an exceptional tournament. exactly 2.5 goals per game so far; let's hope the final is as fitting a climax as the final of the last african nations wasn't to what was also a gloriously attack minded month.

Russia came up against a side who don't give the ball away and struggled. The Dutch, for all their free-flowing attractive football, are not good at shutting teams down.

Spain Italy was an example of a game that you knew would end up as 0-0 because they both have the ability to give nothing away.

Germany will win it. More willpower and bottle.

unfortunately =/

i should also mention if Fabregas doesnt start in Sunday, Argones is the stupidest cunt on the face of the earth.

that is all.

Ouch, that must have been painful for the Russians, was hoping for another Greece scenario this time round.

I just don't like the Russians, so I'm pretty pleased they're out of it.

the russians looked jaded despite the extra day's rest. when xavi scored the spanish started creating more space and more chances then beforehand.

they've made their luck in this tournament; very little play acting - a few instances from villa and torres but avoiding it on other occasions, unlike say the portugeuse or the italians who couldn't stop crumpling like paper under lead - and attacking constantly against the resolute swedes who dropped concentration on the final attack and subsequently watched villa score, the italians whom they couldn't fuck but fortunately managed to outnerve in the shootout and the russians who played the same game but couldn't keep up.

minty makes a good point about how good they are at the back; in holland's wins over france and italy they invited pressure and watched the other team possess the ball and had to make last ditch clearances or rely on van der sar for long periods, before finally stretching each game with devastating and game winning attacks. the italians and french just weren't that good.

anyway germany have also done pretty well, scoring 10 goals in 5 games and hitting some sweet goals as well as providing entertaining, dramatic matches for the neutral, a rarity from them. i'm english born and of polish heritage, but i was glad they knocked the fairy portugeezers and hairy turks out.

look at germany's wins though; poland were laughably disorganised and lethargic at the back, austria were quite without quality, portugal were shocking at the back in their arrogance and the turks were depleted and stretched to their limits - rustulol. the croats only conceded the semih equaliser in their quarter because they thought they ignored turkey's drive and never-say-die attitude and relaxed after scoring, having defended against them comfortably for 119 previous minutes; they were rock solid otherwise, stifling oppositions, and they found ze germs out. spain would do well to observe that.

VIVA ESPANA