OK, it wasn't as good as say, X or XII, but in my opinion, it wasn't a dreadful game. While I'm willing to admit the plot was a little loose (Shuyin was one of the worst villains ever) and the dressphere/ability system wasn't as in depth as it could've been, I feel the game did what it was intended to do, that is, be a light-hearted sequel to FFX that focused on Yuna, with a moderately interesting plot of its own...

The fact that the game following FFX was such an upbeat, light hearted, 'girl power'-game probably disappointed a good lot of people. I liked it, though, but I believe I'm fairly alone in that sentiment.

It was to be expected though - FF X was a dark and sad story, in a suffering world. People expected FF X-2 to follow this, but it didn't.

Reasons believing because :
1> Its not like the original PS1 versions where it had good storylines and basicly overall good gameplay.
2>FF X was mostly focused on Yuna more then Tidus.
3>FF X-2 is a terrible even reviews said "its only for people who like to see that kinda "stuff".
4>Once it hit PS2 it sucked because they thought it would be better because graphics wise and gameplay wise.
5>Who in the world would want to go back again to the same places from FF X? Oh wow a little changing here and there and some remixed music plus some "new" added bosses seriously?


Come on Rikku has barely even clothing on besides when changing dresssphere. Yuna almost turned out to be a slut (srry but its true >.<). Paine is just..well Paine >.>.

Atoli, you are a complete fucktard. Practically every single thing you said in that post is completely idiotic.

1. Original PS1 games? The PS1 games were based on the NES and SNES games. The stories of those games are very much in dispute. And on top of that, to imply that the PS1 games had better gameplay is stupidity of the highest order.
2. So what? There's no point there.
3. X-2 was well-received by critics. It has a metascore of 85, and was rated over 90 by most of the major sites/publications.
4. No one in their right mind expected a drastic improvement in the graphics, and the gameplay was indisputably the best of any FF game using an ATB system.
5. Perhaps the 4 million people who bought the game.

Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?

Because "people" are idiots. Also, anyone intelligent around here likes X-2. I'll admit at first the different style took some getting used to, but the game grew on me pretty fast.

The fact that the game following FFX was such an upbeat, light hearted, 'girl power'-game probably disappointed a good lot of people. I liked it, though, but I believe I'm fairly alone in that sentiment.

the main theme "Real Emotion kicked ass

FF X-2 might have been hated by a lot of people but they just saw the front of the cover and judged by that. People who said it was stupid might have never even played it or not even 5 minutes into the game and say "oh it sucks". But despite the facts both FF-X and X-2 were very good games and pretty much a very long fun Rpg. Sad they used Omega Weapon as a normal monster then boss in FF X-2 T.T.

I loved that game and I still love it, maybe it was a bit different, but it kept that nice and warm thing that made FF to be FF.

The game wasn't all that bad, but the aspects that turned me off the most while playing were the extraordinary over-mushy scenes over nothing sometimes, and Yuna herself
Rikku and Paine I have no problem with, but Yuna just irritated the hell outta me for some reason

yuna irritated the hell out of me, too.
i thought it was a pretty good game, a bit short but a great sequel to ffx, which i found to be a very big game.

i didnt mind the girl power aspect actually, but lets face it...this isn't a game ur gonna play when hanging out with the guys

i didnt mind the girl power aspect actually, but lets face it...this isn't a game ur gonna play when hanging out with the guys

Nor is any Final Fantasy game.

Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?

Probably because it isn't chock full of the emo wankery that made the most popular FF games, well, popular. Yuna and Rikku just helped SAVE THE DAMN WORLD. Even emo wanker-king Squall went to a huge party after they saved the world from Ultimecia.

Come on Rikku has barely even clothing on besides when changing dresssphere. Yuna almost turned out to be a slut (srry but its true >.<). Paine is just..well Paine >.>.


What a shit reason to hate the game, how exactly does this contribute to whether people like the game or not?

I thought it was great game in its own right.
True, it's a completely different style to FFX but i found that refreshing and the battle and dressphere systems were intuitive in my opinion.
Plus, you cant argue with the fact it sold multiple millions of copies.

What a shit reason to hate the game, how exactly does this contribute to whether people like the game or not?

TM, the day you contribute one decent argument of your own to one of these god damned debates, then you can pass judgement on other peoples' arguments. Right now, you're just proving to everyone what an attention whore you are.

Also, welcome, smariman, a fellow Welshman!

Thanks for the warm welcome. :)

the main theme "Real Emotion kicked ass

It sucked, and it nearly made me toss the game away when I saw the opening cinematics. Real Emotion is the worst song ever to be associated with a Final Fantasy game.

TM, the day you contribute one decent argument of your own to one of these god damned debates, then you can pass judgement on other peoples' arguments. Right now, you're just proving to everyone what an attention whore you are.


I think I can pass judgement on what ever I want without your permission. Whatever you think the case is, I do not care. I am not an attention whore. If I want to call on someone for having shit reasons for liking or disliking a game, then I can call on them if I want.

It sucked, and it nearly made me toss the game away when I saw the opening cinematics. Real Emotion is the worst song ever to be associated with a Final Fantasy game.

Well it's not THAT bad, I mean yea that song isn't manly what so ever :smrt:
but it's not that bad either

Maybe it's me, or girls just naturally like this kind of game. Heh, Square attracting girl gamers.

Maybe it's me, or girls just naturally like this kind of game. Heh, Square attracting girl gamers.

That's because Square likes to validate its Heterosexual status :smrt:

I think I can pass judgement on what ever I want without your permission. Whatever you think the case is, I do not care. I am not an attention whore. If I want to call on someone for having shit reasons for liking or disliking a game, then I can call on them if I want.

You are an attention whore because you hardly ever post genuinely intuitive comments in these debates. You just stand back and pick at individual retarded comments, as if that somehow makes you look cool. At least Atoli was contributing some actual reason to the debate, albeit the reasoning was flawed and badly presented. You just convieniently ignored the rest of Atoli's post and made no effort to rationally address anything given there, preferring to pick one badly-presented comment for derision.

In short, if you must mock someone, address the whole post and back up your opinions with superior reasoning. Otherwise, you are simply an attention whore.

You are an attention whore because you hardly ever post genuinely intuitive comments in these debates.

Doesn't make me an attention whore at all, I fail to see how this grabs the attention of the thread, or even TRIES to.


You just stand back and pick at individual retarded comments, as if that somehow makes you look cool.

I pick at individual comments because they are retarded, it's that simple, nothing "cool about it at all.


You just convieniently ignored the rest of Atoli's post and made no effort to rationally address anything given there, preferring to pick one badly-presented comment for derision.


Because the rest of the post had been picked apart, I decided to pick at the only part that hadn't, CLEARLY I AM A ATTENTION WHORE. :rolleyes:


In short, if you must mock someone, address the whole post and back up your opinions with superior reasoning. Otherwise, you are simply an attention whore.

You expect me to give insightfull reasoning on a game I haven't played? This is partly why I didn't question the rest of his post, disliking a game because of what the charecters wear and saying something like "Paine is just...Paine" seems retarded even to someone like me. Someone who hasn't even played the game, if calling on someone for something as retarded as this is attention whoring, please stick your head in a furnace because you are very stupid.

Look, if you never played the game, why the hell are you posting in this thread?

Last I heard, that wasn't a requisite for posting about anything.

Look, if you never played the game, why the hell are you posting in this thread?

Try learning to read:



This is partly why I didn't question the rest of his post, disliking a game because of what the charecters wear and saying something like "Paine is just...Paine" seems retarded even to someone like me. Someone who hasn't even played the game,

And also:



Last I heard, that wasn't a requisite for posting about anything.

While I'm not in the least bit bothered about whether people hate the game or not, I have to agree that allowing irrelevant details like that to define a complete judgement of a game is pretty silly.

Wasn't terrible, i actually enjoyed the change in the battle system.

TM, I would not be so annoyed about this incident if you didn't do it so constantly. I can put up with inflammatory comments in isolated threads, even though they add nothing at all to any conversation, (I can't stress that enough) but you do it practically on a daily basis. And you are the one person that I know who simply attacks comments without really looking to argue the majority of the post. It is not that I disagree with your assesment of that part of Atoli's post, but simply that your retort was so simplistic and blunt that it is unlikely to do anything other than lower the standard of debate around here.

You can claim that others had, in this incident, already argued against the other points, but that is pure coincidence. There are probably numerous examples I could dig up to show you that you are not consistent in applying that logic.

That said, I do not intend on being a hypocrite and attacking you personally all day, so I think I should keep this post somewhat on topic.

My opinions on FFX-2 are that it was a well-designed game with good potential let down by some poor plot events, missions and a disappointing difficulty level, as well as a poorer version of Blitzball. There are numerous threads in this forum and the General FF section where I have expanded on these opinions. It isn't terrible, but as far as FFs go, it isn't in my top three.

Maybe it's me, or girls just naturally like this kind of game. Heh, Square attracting girl gamers. if that is what that was they really need to consider rethinking what girls like. Cause for the most part its not watching other girls run around with no clothes on (for the most part) and not for the demographic they seem to want. But then again I'm sure i'm not really in that demographic that they want and I love FF

You can claim that others had, in this incident, already argued against the other points, but that is pure coincidence. There are probably numerous examples I could dig up to show you that you are not consistent in applying that logic.

Then how's about you try to bitch to me in a thread where your accusations actually apply?

Then how's about you try to bitch to me in a thread where your accusations actually apply?

Again, this is pure deflection. It is irrelevant where I made my accusation because I was not as much annoyed about this one incident as a series of them, and have stated that in previous posts.

That said, I do not want to continue this pointless insult war, and again, I said that in the last post. But kudos for reviving a thread that no-one had posted in for nine days simply to drudge the argument back up again.

Sobye.... just go take a quick walk in a minefield. FFX-2 is one of the top two best games I've ever played for the PS2, the top best being FFX. If you hate the game, tough, cuz I'm fairly certain that others here don't like your comments. But, mind ya, this is coming from a 60ft long black/silver dragon who just so happens to be using your computer as a rebound point for posts. :)
Thanks for your time and have a nice day!

Sobye.... just go take a quick walk in a minefield. FFX-2 is one of the top two best games I've ever played for the PS2, the top best being FFX. If you hate the game, tough, cuz I'm fairly certain that others here don't like your comments. But, mind ya, this is coming from a 60ft long black/silver dragon who just so happens to be using your computer as a rebound point for posts. :)
Thanks for your time and have a nice day!

If you had read my posts in this thread you would have seen that I actually like the game. I just loathe the opening cinematics. So how about you pull your head out of your ass and start paying some fucking attention to what you read.
Thank you for your time, go fuck yourself.

Okay, I loved X-2 a lot, but to be quite honest, it's one of those games that you're probably not going to like unless you try to like, or have high curiousity. I'll admit that the beginning almost turned me off. This game was more meant as an homage if anything.

I do, however, love sequels with a "deja vu" ish feeling. Like, it was cool to see what became of everything, and what they decided to use as places where important scenes or boss fights previously were. (However, I absolutely found ridiculous how Lablanc somehow took over Seymour's place just like that, considering how heavily protected it had been before). The battle system was awesome, though, IMO, and I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why anyone would hate it.

The sidequests were also pretty decent. Plus, Chocobos have more importance, which was a plus.

But, I am a huge fan of Nobuo Uematsu, and if the fact that the music had a new composer turned people off, I honestly can't blame them. Shallow of them, but still. Some of the music made me want to hurl. The Chocobo theme was cute, but it DID NOT FOLLOW THE PATTERN. FFXII had a new composer, yet they still managed to make a Choco theme with the same pattern!
All the music seemed teenage pop-ish. The only track I liked was the Lablanc Syndicate theme.

The story, however, was decent, though a little anti-FF. Also, while I did say the battle system was nice, it was a little easy. You could practically hold down X through every battle and win. Even almost every boss battle, except for four of the five Via Infinito bosses (Aranea I beat holding X, the others was a a challenge) and Yojimbo. All the storyline bosses were an utter joke.


However, on the subject of challenges, I LOVED the selection of Blue magic in this game as well as how hidden some of it is.

And one creative sidequest that I think only I enjoyed doing was the Thunder Plains cave with all the math stuff. Time consuming but hella fun and original.


~Zak

I didn't like it because it was a Final Fantasy game.

Someone say 'oh snap?'

Atoli, you are a complete fucktard. Practically every single thing you said in that post is completely idiotic.

1. Original PS1 games? The PS1 games were based on the NES and SNES games. The stories of those games are very much in dispute. And on top of that, to imply that the PS1 games had better gameplay is stupidity of the highest order.
2. So what? There's no point there.
3. X-2 was well-received by critics. It has a metascore of 85, and was rated over 90 by most of the major sites/publications.
4. No one in their right mind expected a drastic improvement in the graphics, and the gameplay was indisputably the best of any FF game using an ATB system.
5. Perhaps the 4 million people who bought the game.

I have heard your comments on FF7 and while I can understand the fanboy problem, I see a problem here.

Graphics and gameplay...I'll give you that...

But a summoner turned gun wielding pop singer....

Point being, if they made FF7-2, with Cloud and the gang performing show tunes...I think you get the picture.

Wow, never thought I'd see someone flame someone else over this game. Don't get me wrong, it was an 'okay' game, but it just didn't live up to the other final fantasies.

It was just...Charlies Angels rolled into an FF game.

Wow, never thought I'd see someone flame someone else over this game. Don't get me wrong, it was an 'okay' game, but it just didn't live up to the other final fantasies.

It was just...Charlies Angels rolled into an FF game.

Post of the day rofl

OK, it wasn't as good as say, X or XII, but in my opinion, it wasn't a dreadful game. While I'm willing to admit the plot was a little loose (Shuyin was one of the worst villains ever) and the dressphere/ability system wasn't as in depth as it could've been, I feel the game did what it was intended to do, that is, be a light-hearted sequel to FFX that focused on Yuna, with a moderately interesting plot of its own...

Your Terrible. But thats exactly the point, It wasn't as good as the rest of the series, thats why it is trampled upon. It just didnt feel like a FF. Did you play this game and get the same feeling you had when you first played FFIV, FFVI, CT, FFTactics, or FFVII?

Your Terrible. But thats exactly the point, It wasn't as good as the rest of the series, thats why it is trampled upon. It just didnt feel like a FF. Did you play this game and get the same feeling you had when you first played FFIV, FFVI, CT, FFTactics, or FFVII?

no you didn't and the soundtrack wasn't helping at all either

no you didn't and the soundtrack wasn't helping at all either

what? make some sense dickhead.

Locke FF36, if you read, you'll see that I answered the question you presented, and also added that the sounded didn't help to the "feeling" you got playing the other final fantasy games.
So why don't you pay a little more attention before insulting me, when I'm supporting your comment

Also I forgot to mention, most people think "Dressspheres" supposedly "sounds ridiculous", but those shallow retards don't realize that it's just a more organized version of the Materia system that these same people rave about.

Not that many such people exist on this forum, from what I see it seemed they've all been shooed away lol

Locke FF36, if you read, you'll see that I answered the question you presented, and also added that the sounded didn't help to the "feeling" you got playing the other final fantasy games.
So why don't you pay a little more attention before insulting me, when I'm supporting your comment

oh oh, i'm sorry man. I should have paid a little more attention when I read it, it was really early in the morning haha. My Apologies.

So I'm replaying FFX-2 and I suddenly realize how much of the story looks like it was thought up on the day of a deadline or something (not that I didn't notices some things didn't make sense but I stared to really pay attention.) For one thing instead of bring in a new girl to help unravel the story how about we give rikku some storyline! After that I though well I know why shuyin looks like tidus but why does lenne resemble yuna. The truth is they didn't even look that much alike anyway which brought up another question why didn't leblanc turn into lenne using the dresssphere why did she turn into anyone at all?

Also when I saw the cut scenes for the international version I had more questions. How come they didn't talk for 3 months? Why did kimi e have to be the ending and once again please give rikku some story line. The last two are a bit redundant but a lot of things made no sense at all besides this though it was a good game. Not up to usual standards but fun (they didn't even spend 30 second on it in the history of final fantasy in FFXII)

My opinions on FFX-2 are that it was a well-designed game with good potential let down by some poor plot events, missions and a disappointing difficulty level, as well as a poorer version of Blitzball. There are numerous threads in this forum and the General FF section where I have expanded on these opinions. It isn't terrible, but as far as FFs go, it isn't in my top three.

Wow, I keep finding quotes that completely sum up a lot of the arguments on here lol. This is basically my opinion as well, but I really liked the Job System and the Battle System.

I have to tell you though, it makes me feel kind of bad to see people argue about FF games like this and turn it into hatred towards other FF players....

A lot of people say they don't like it because it didn't feel like a FF game. That's one reason I did like it, because the world-domination ever-lasting-crisis got old really quickly for me. Sure there is a plot to destroy the world...but it's fairly non-intrusive to the actual game. I liked the laid-back atmosphere and the non-linear gameplay. The ATB battle system rocked and the dressphere system, while not perfect, was pretty good IMO. The soundtrack wasn't horrible, but since I'm a BEMANI addict and videogame music is my favorite kind, it was pretty ok.

8/10 on my list.

It really depends on which aspect of the game you look.

As far the story goes, it was quite terrible. The barely noticable connection with FFX and the hunt for "him" really sucked big time. I disliked Yuna as a pop star (ish?) and the way they were dressed using the various dress spheres was rather slutty. These things kinda made you wonder if you actually were playing a FF game.

But on to the goods. I loved the gameplay. The Dress Sphere system was quite awesome, combined with the Sphere Grids and accessories you had quite alot of freedom to customize your characters as your heart disired. I missed the option to change your weapons/armor, but it wasn't really needed I supose. There's quite a few neat mini games and there was Sphere Break.

I liked the mission/chapter based system to progress through the game, and the new game plus added something new to the game. Though it could make a new game ridiculously easy (not that the game itself wasn't easy enough), but you could chose not to use your uber equipment a new game, and the better skills use more mana than you have at the start of the game. So it does balance out.

One thing I really really didn't like, to get a 100% you have to do some stupidly tiny details RIGHT or you'll just screw up your chance to get the perfect ending. Sure I don't mind having to go through some trouble to get to that point, but randomly press X four times during a cut scene for example, is really one of those things that makes you cry out.

If they added some more time in X to get tidus back then did a whole new game about lenne and shuyin it might have worked

my opinion: i do think ffx is better than ffx-2, maybe its the fact that i expected more from the sequel but found the first one is pretty much the better one and got dissatisfied.

and as for characters..i got so attached to tidus and yuna..didnt pay much attention to shuyin and lenne

No one cares what you think anyway. We all know you're a worthless idiot who should promptly die in a fire.

and as for characters..i got so attached to tidus and yuna..didnt pay much attention to shuyin and lenne


Sheesh, do you get attached to ALL of the FF charecters?

Jeez. Not all that again!

IMO FFX-2 didnt live up to alot of expectations for me. It wasnt in my top five rankings but i still played it through and got 100% (the second time round). I enjoyed moreso the new approach by Square, the ATB system, dress spheres etc; all this kind of compensated for what was IMO a not-so-great narative.

In all the game was okay, but if i could change anything, i would make it longer and abit harder. 7/10 from me.

Sheesh, do you get attached to ALL of the FF charecters?


not all...i get attached to the ones i like most.

OK, it wasn't as good as say, X or XII, but in my opinion, it wasn't a dreadful game. While I'm willing to admit the plot was a little loose (Shuyin was one of the worst villains ever) and the dressphere/ability system wasn't as in depth as it could've been, I feel the game did what it was intended to do, that is, be a light-hearted sequel to FFX that focused on Yuna, with a moderately interesting plot of its own...

I think another reason could have something to do with the game play. I've heard some complaints like "zomg no summons!?". Another complaint I've heard was "it's just a Final Fantasy copy of Charlies Angels" (that may be true, but that's a weak reason to dislike the game imo).

It isn't my favorite Final Fantasy, but not the worst I've ever played either. I guess you could say I didn't like the fact that you couldn't name your main character. Why would they be calling it an RPG/Role Playing Game if you can no longer name your characters?

I do admit that the new characters were cool imo (Paine, Nooj, Baralai, and Gippal).

None of them are real RPGs. Naming a character doesn't make a game one.

None of them are real RPGs. Naming a character doesn't make a game one.


How come none of them are real RPGs? Is it just because they're not Dungeons and Dragons etc.? I've also heard another critic of Final Fantasy or video game RPGs not being RPGs just because they aren't D & D or on paper, or not the very first ones to come out, blah blah blah :p.

I'm just curious is all.

See this thread (Thread 29666) for a full explanation. It's been dead for a year, so please don't revive it.

this game actually is good!the storyline wise but i have to admit the battle system was not really loved by me ...but yuna returnd to tidus!!which really make me happy i mean i dont like unhappy ending in ffx

this game actually is good!the storyline wise but i have to admit the battle system was not really loved by me ...but yuna returnd to tidus!!which really make me happy i mean i dont like unhappy ending in ffx


Now isn't that only if you complete all the sidequest missions in the game?

Btw welcome to FFS.

Now isn't that only if you complete all the sidequest missions in the game?

Btw welcome to FFS.
thx 4 the warm welcome!!! not really you dont really need 100% juz 80% if i am not wrong.....100% just an additional cut scene

People say FFX-2 is a terrible game. Because it is. Simple as that.

People say FFX-2 is a terrible game. Because it is. Simple as that.

Wow. That's a weak reason o__0.

I never got it because the box art made me feel like I'm guilty of buying porn.

What does the box art look like in America? In Britain it's just a white background with Final Fantasy X-2 on it.

Not enough nudity :D

What does the box art look like in America? In Britain it's just a white background with Final Fantasy X-2 on it.

Google it.

edit: 1000th post! Yay?

Wow. That's a weak reason o__0.

I dont have to give a reason, The game lacked a decent story line, Any sort of structure to it. They Dress spheres made no sense, Given that the previous Game Yuna was a priss who if you follwed her Sphere grid right could obliterate someone with magical attacks and keep a party alive, But couldn knock the spots of a dalmation with her crappy attack stats. All of a sudden she can be trained in god knows how many sort of abilities, Same goes for Rikku. She should have retained the mix ability for herself alone, Its what made her unique, She has nothing in this game.

The Dark Aeons had no reason to be in there again, Cause you either killed them in the first one or knew they existed. Like Ifrit for example, He magically got from the Bikanel Desert to Kilika temple I believe? Without anyone noticing it or him damaging anything, I find that hard to believe!

There was so many things in that game that were beyond explanation.
Another one, How did Leblanc happen to become the new resident of what used to be the grand Maesters house in Guado Salam, The story line FFX so nicely built up FFX-2 pissed all over.

People say FFX-2 is a terrible game. Because it is. Simple as that.

I think people like you are probably the reason Prak defends X-2 and I agree with him.

EDIT: Just saw your second post, but okay, let's see...


I dont have to give a reason, The game lacked a decent story line, Any sort of structure to it. They Dress spheres made no sense, Given that the previous Game Yuna was a priss who if you follwed her Sphere grid right could obliterate someone with magical attacks and keep a party alive, But couldn knock the spots of a dalmation with her crappy attack stats. All of a sudden she can be trained in god knows how many sort of abilities, Same goes for Rikku. She should have retained the mix ability for herself alone, Its what made her unique, She has nothing in this game.

First of all, Final Fantasy games will always have different battle/ability systems even if they are of the same universe. And even if they must be similar, there's gotta be some change made. And keep in mind, Yuna, Rikku and all the survived FFX main characters retired and rested a lot between FFX and the events of X-2, and didn't engage in battle for a while. So, waking up a year later it's time to start over. Also in X they didn't have levels. Besides that, in EVERY final fantasy game when you apply the ability systems to real life scenarios, they ALWAYS defy logic. I suppose they just decided to start over and this time they gained more common sense and decided to branch out more rather than stick to one class.
The only thing I agree with you in the above statement is that niether Yuna, Rikku, nor Paine had any sort of uniqueness to them in what they could do that the others couldn't, with the exceptions of special dressspheres which were never used and two other dressspheres which are both hidden and you're almost done with the game by the time you get them, but throughout the game, anyone can do anything and there were no limit breaks, which was kinda lame.


The Dark Aeons had no reason to be in there again, Cause you either killed them in the first one or knew they existed. Like Ifrit for example, He magically got from the Bikanel Desert to Kilika temple I believe? Without anyone noticing it or him damaging anything, I find that hard to believe!

First of all I've never played the version with the dark Aeons, and seeing as they're only in one version they're obviously not that important to the story. So, either they're not the same dark Aeons, or it's supposed to be as if they were never there. And almost every game involves monsters/bosses that defy logic.


There was so many things in that game that were beyond explanation.
Another one, How did Leblanc happen to become the new resident of what used to be the grand Maesters house in Guado Salam, The story line FFX so nicely built up FFX-2 pissed all over.

That's easy. Guadosalam was abandoned by the Guado. Not just fled, abandoned, meaning anything there was pretty much up for grabs, which is how it became a "hangout" for sphere hunters. The Grand Maesters didn't matter anymore, no one cared, nothing Yevon-related mattered anymore. It would have been sacreligious to claim that house for herself, but it's just like turning Djose temple into a machina workshop. Dunno why her and not anyone else, not like she deserves it, but I guess we can assume she was one of the first Sphere Hunters there. Plus, she's rich. :P

I think people like you are probably the reason Prak defends X-2 and I agree with him.

I never have a debate with Prak as I dont see the point, We both know each others takes on games and respect them.
EDIT: Just saw your second post, but okay, let's see...




First of all, Final Fantasy games will always have different battle/ability systems even if they are of the same universe. And even if they must be similar, there's gotta be some change made. And keep in mind, Yuna, Rikku and all the survived FFX main characters retired and rested a lot between FFX and the events of X-2, and didn't engage in battle for a while. So, waking up a year later it's time to start over. Also in X they didn't have levels. Besides that, in EVERY final fantasy game when you apply the ability systems to real life scenarios, they ALWAYS defy logic. I suppose they just decided to start over and this time they gained more common sense and decided to branch out more rather than stick to one class.
The only thing I agree with you in the above statement is that niether Yuna, Rikku, nor Paine had any sort of uniqueness to them in what they could do that the others couldn't, with the exceptions of special dressspheres which were never used and two other dressspheres which are both hidden and you're almost done with the game by the time you get them, but throughout the game, anyone can do anything and there were no limit breaks, which was kinda lame.

I am not looking at it from a logical point of view. If I were to do that I wouldn have this discussion because 3 women turning in to a host of creatures and a machine is beyond logic. My argument point was, That with FFX each person had a specific reason for being there. Yuna for Aeons, Lulu Black Magic, Wakka to hit the flying things etc etc. On this one Rikku and Yuna have lost their reasons for being in the game, Yunas is understandable having killed her Aeons and all. But Rikku had no reason to lose the abilities she had. On this one its just a mish Mash of whatever the hell you like, Basically you could choose three heavy warriors one Dies and oh lets quickly switch save their lives and switch back again. They tried to cram to much in to three characters.



First of all I've never played the version with the dark Aeons, and seeing as they're only in one version they're obviously not that important to the story. So, either they're not the same dark Aeons, or it's supposed to be as if they were never there. And almost every game involves monsters/bosses that defy logic.

Again not from a logical point of view. They just lack the ability to explain and expand the story line to allow these things to make sense.


That's easy. Guadosalam was abandoned by the Guado. Not just fled, abandoned, meaning anything there was pretty much up for grabs, which is how it became a "hangout" for sphere hunters. The Grand Maesters didn't matter anymore, no one cared, nothing Yevon-related mattered anymore. It would have been sacreligious to claim that house for herself, but it's just like turning Djose temple into a machina workshop. Dunno why her and not anyone else, not like she deserves it, but I guess we can assume she was one of the first Sphere Hunters there. Plus, she's rich. :P

Ill concede this point as I forgot the Guado Ran.

I dont have to give a reason, The game lacked a decent story line, Any sort of structure to it. They Dress spheres made no sense, Given that the previous Game Yuna was a priss who if you follwed her Sphere grid right could obliterate someone with magical attacks and keep a party alive, But couldn knock the spots of a dalmation with her crappy attack stats. All of a sudden she can be trained in god knows how many sort of abilities, Same goes for Rikku. She should have retained the mix ability for herself alone, Its what made her unique, She has nothing in this game.

The Dark Aeons had no reason to be in there again, Cause you either killed them in the first one or knew they existed. Like Ifrit for example, He magically got from the Bikanel Desert to Kilika temple I believe? Without anyone noticing it or him damaging anything, I find that hard to believe!

There was so many things in that game that were beyond explanation.
Another one, How did Leblanc happen to become the new resident of what used to be the grand Maesters house in Guado Salam, The story line FFX so nicely built up FFX-2 pissed all over.


Well you just did give your reasons and props to you for providing a much better arguement *claps*.

However in the previous game, I do remember Yuna doing just fine by herself despite her attacks. All you had to do was use her summoning skills to summon a monster fresh outta the oven and she did superb. Also considering the fact that during the part in Bevelle you have to use Yuna by herself for a short period of time which should prove that.

As for the dress spheres, you can't really say Yuna got suddenly good considering the fact that it has been two years and even just two years can change someone and make one matured and smarter if you know what I mean.

The Dark Aeons matching the story line from the previous FFX made sense, but I understand what you mean about how it could make no logical sense of Ifrit getting from Bikanel dessert to Kilika Temple.

You did at least make a better and stronger arguement than your last post and much more kudos to you for that.

What does the box art look like in America? In Britain it's just a white background with Final Fantasy X-2 on it.


are you serious? is it corresponding in canada?



I am not looking at it from a logical point of view. If I were to do that I wouldn have this discussion because 3 women turning in to a host of creatures and a machine is beyond logic. My argument point was, That with FFX each person had a specific reason for being there. Yuna for Aeons, Lulu Black Magic, Wakka to hit the flying things etc etc. On this one Rikku and Yuna have lost their reasons for being in the game, Yunas is understandable having killed her Aeons and all. But Rikku had no reason to lose the abilities she had. On this one its just a mish Mash of whatever the hell you like, Basically you could choose three heavy warriors one Dies and oh lets quickly switch save their lives and switch back again. They tried to cram to much in to three characters.

hey you hav a point there.



You suck for double posting.

r u satisfied?

i do not know how to delete messages...

You suck for double posting.

On topic: I believe they say X-2 is a bad game from the radical change it made from X. Yeah it's a sequel but some consistency would be nice.

Well you just did give your reasons and props to you for providing a much better arguement *claps*.

However in the previous game, I do remember Yuna doing just fine by herself despite her attacks. All you had to do was use her summoning skills to summon a monster fresh outta the oven and she did superb. Also considering the fact that during the part in Bevelle you have to use Yuna by herself for a short period of time which should prove that.

As for the dress spheres, you can't really say Yuna got suddenly good considering the fact that it has been two years and even just two years can change someone and make one matured and smarter if you know what I mean.

The Dark Aeons matching the story line from the previous FFX made sense, but I understand what you mean about how it could make no logical sense of Ifrit getting from Bikanel dessert to Kilika Temple.

You did at least make a better and stronger arguement than your last post and much more kudos to you for that.

Firstly I dont need your sarcasm, The only reason I did not bother writing a reply was because this is probably about the 20th thread of its kind. I have made my cases in other threads and could not be bothered to repeat them again in this thread.

There were far to many things which had altered to much for my liking.

A large part of FF games is having the choice of being able use whichever characters took your fancy. Not being stuck with three. That all had the same abilities. It just didn appeal to me at all.

I can understand how other people don't like it, it was a radical change from very indepth storyline of ffx, to the happy go lucky storyline of ffx-2, charlie angels meets ff sort of thing.

I get a little depressed when I look at the case sometimes. It was fun but it had so much more potential

I though X-2 was nice, but not mind-shatteringly awesome. The battle system was fun and a bit refreshing and the graphics were very nice.

I can't say the same for the story, though.

Honestly, it seemed like some sort of badly written fan-fiction. An excuse to make a sequel.

The music in this game seemed bland and wasn't the least bit memorable to me (minus one or two tracks). Overall, the soundtrack was bad.

All in all, the battle system was the game's only real shining point for me.

Well, this is just my two cents.

The Charlie Angels rip off, might of been it.


However, I thought the dress sphere thing was a neato ideer.

Welcome to FFS Rainbow.

It was also the fact that you could not use summons XD.

Thanky :3

Firstly I dont need your sarcasm, The only reason I did not bother writing a reply was because this is probably about the 20th thread of its kind. I have made my cases in other threads and could not be bothered to repeat them again in this thread.

There were far to many things which had altered to much for my liking.

A large part of FF games is having the choice of being able use whichever characters took your fancy. Not being stuck with three. That all had the same abilities. It just didn appeal to me at all.

Yeesh you don't need to take everything as sarcasm :(! Learn to at least take some things alittle seriously :/. I was serious.

A large part of FF games is having the choice of being able use whichever characters took your fancy. Not being stuck with three. That all had the same abilities. It just didn appeal to me at all.

I totally forgot about this, but I agree.

I agree about the character thing. But let's face it, this game was made more as an homage than a serious sequel, even though it was a sequel. Being able to go anywhere from the beginning and all... that's the oddest part. But yes, it's the same world, and you have to have played X to enjoy it. Even though it has all the elements and potential for a true RPG, it's more of a spinoff like Dirge of Cereberus.

The problem is that people see it as a sequel and expect a true long in-depth RPG like the rest of them, but if they saw it as a spinoff then it wouldn't get as much heat. Because, looking at it as more of a spinoff like those FF7 mini-games, it definitely meets expectations.


One particular aspect of this game that I really liked and I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned (unless I missed it), is the CommSphere system. The game may be different than the rest of them in the sense of how the world plays out and no variety of characters and being overall short, but the one thing this game does not lack is originality.

CommSpheres were a neat idea but it would have been so much better if they gave you access to them from the beginning rather then limiting their use almost exclusively to chapter 4. It made that section of the game a little too cutscene-heavy.

CommSpheres were a neat idea but it would have been so much better if they gave you access to them from the beginning rather then limiting their use almost exclusively to chapter 4. It made that section of the game a little too cutscene-heavy.

...You're kidding, right? That would have ruined it, the whole concept of Shinra setting it up was the fun part of the story. And, they have new sets of scenes in chapter 5 as well.

Plus, in Chapter 4 you don't really explore, so they have that instead.

As for "cutscene heavy" there's almost always a cutscene when Yuna enters an area for the first time in a chapter.

Plus, if they had them in the first three chapters as well, it would be hell going through all of the cutscenes.

Besides, the Mi'hen Highroad ones are critical in what goes on before as well.

...You're kidding, right? That would have ruined it, the whole concept of Shinra setting it up was the fun part of the story. And, they have new sets of scenes in chapter 5 as well.
All I remember from chapter 5 were a whole load of 'CommSphere destroyed' scenes. I may have forgotten a few though. As for Shinra setting them up, I don't see why he couldn't have just done that when you visit the areas for the first time, rather then later on.

Plus, in Chapter 4 you don't really explore, so they have that instead.
The idea of spacing the commsphere scenes out is so it frees up time in that chapter for more gameplay.


As for "cutscene heavy" there's almost always a cutscene when Yuna enters an area for the first time in a chapter.
There is a difference between that and sitting around watching cutscenes for pretty much the whole chapter.

Plus, if they had them in the first three chapters as well, it would be hell going through all of the cutscenes.
How so? Watching a cutscene per area per chapter or so isn't anywhere near as time consuming as having to watch the vast majority of them all at once.

Besides, the Mi'hen Highroad ones are critical in what goes on before as well.
I didn't say you had to move them all.

How so? Watching a cutscene per area per chapter or so isn't anywhere near as time consuming as having to watch the vast majority of them all at once.



I don't think you have to watch them all unless you're planning on getting 100%. In fact I don't even think you need them all then.

But anyone who's trying to get 100% shouldn't have a problem with cutscenes should they? ;)

I still have no idea why people bash this game because its different to X? Why would you want more of the same. I give SE kudos for trying something new. And naturally, Spira is going to be completely rejuvanated with Sin gone, Yevon's dark grip vanished, and a positive feel to the world. It makes total sense for the game to have the feel it does, and everything that happens in the game, the dialouge, characters, everything make sense.

As for having only 3 playable characters, there is no reason for any other characters and they fit into the storyline just fine. Why have characters just for the hell of it, like previous titles?

The battle system is second to none in the entire series, the dressphere system is something new and original. It's not an outstanding game by any means, but its a very good game and one of the better ones in the FF series.

I agree with everything you said except for the fact that the dresssphere system is new and original. It's almost just like V's system and kinda VI and also somewhat akin to Materia from FFVII. But still, even if it isn't, it's still well-varied.

I don't think you have to watch them all unless you're planning on getting 100%. In fact I don't even think you need them all then.
No, but lumping them all together inhibits the effectiveness of a good idea.

But anyone who's trying to get 100% shouldn't have a problem with cutscenes should they? ;)
What makes you think completionists don't have a problem with bad pacing?

I liked X2..but obviously it could have been better lol it was just pretty corny to be honest..But I did like the fact that I was able to have my happy ending lol despite the game being corny..=O

(Ok, I've only read a few replies, but) In my opinion FF x-2 was ok and I got just a small bit less then I expected. But I liked the battle system. The problem was I played it before FFX and that totally ruined it for me.

But the whole FFx-2 giving you a chance to see how Spira changed after FFX was something I desperately wanted in FF8(since it's the first FF I played and I totally loved it and wanted to see more(I played it like 5 times or more.)).

Come on Rikku has barely even clothing on besides when changing dresssphere.

Okay. Opening this reply with a quote of one of the most retarted reason for hating a video game ever...

It makes no sense, this reason. I am not throwing away the fact that you have the right to think that, unless you are a old omish guy, that really shouldnt mae a difference.

Final Fantasy X-2 was a good game, despite a few flaws. There weren't as many new areas as I would have liked to see in a Final Fantasy X sequal, but it was okay.

And I liked the return of the ATB system.

the battle system was good but the story left much to be desired and i realized that maybe a lot of people didn't really like it cause their favorite characters weren't there I mean tidus was my favorite so I was playing the game to know that he wasn't dead. But I did miss auron but I understand he had to die and wakka and lulu could have been in it more I don't even that that the whole suddenly married and having a baby thing was so great I think that they should have gone along with rikku and yuna to look for tidus and hunt spheres along the way. And more should have happened at zanarkand temple besides.....monkeys

the battle system was good but the story left much to be desired and i realized that maybe a lot of people didn't really like it cause their favorite characters weren't there I mean tidus was my favorite so I was playing the game to know that he wasn't dead. But I did miss auron but I understand he had to die and wakka and lulu could have been in it more I don't even that that the whole suddenly married and having a baby thing was so great I think that they should have gone along with rikku and yuna to look for tidus and hunt spheres along the way. And more should have happened at zanarkand temple besides.....monkeys

Yeah, all that bothered me as well. Of course, much of everything fit in the story and characters quite well, but:

I hate the fact Lulu and Wakka settled down like that. It makes no sense at all. They are like brother and sister!

The loss of characters shows that they didn't plan X-2 from the start.

"I'm just a kid" is a poor excuse for an attitude of a genius. I'm not saying it isn't realistic it's just not ambitious.

I'm sure there are other things that bothered me, like searching Cactuars over environment you already saw like 5 times, but I can't remember them all.

Other than that it wasn't really that bad.

I think most people consider Final Fantasy X-2 as a let down because Square Enix made a big fuss and made it out to be the next big Final Fantasy but I rather enjoyed it; the battle system and the sub-quests were really well strung together. Overall, 7/10.

Originally Posted By tidusfan1
And more should have happened at zanarkand temple besides.....monkeys

Yeah, the monkey thing was just random - I expected a little more out of Zanarkand.

the reason why i think everyone thought final fantasy x-2 was a rubbish game was because it followed one of the best games of the series.

the reason why i think everyone thought final fantasy x-2 was a rubbish game was because it followed one of the best games of the series.

It is really hard to follow, isn't it?

That is probally why they spent so much time developing XII.

well i think that if a game follows another game then it should be as good as it or better

I think people expected another X, which, despite all its good points, X-2 just wasn't.

people people

come on, it was all the yuna this and yuna that attention that gave this game a kick in the arse :smrt:

people people

come on, it was all the yuna this and yuna that attention that gave this game a kick in the arse :smrt:

i'll say it wasn't just yuna..it was the "ending", I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS THE ENDING...and i want a happy ending this time...

The battle system was awesome in X-2. The story was ok but sub-par but the really fun battles and the surprisingly cool dressphere system made up for it. It was also pretty short but it did have new game plus so that's fine with me.

most of the new characters were interesting too.

Having played through the game once again, I did it more completelty in an attempt to get 100%. In doing so, I discovered several twists and revelations in the game that I was unaware of before when I complained about the game way back in 2006. However, that doesn't change the many things I dislike about the game nor does it change the fact I hate how most of the story is a sidequest. I have no problem having to do a little extra to unravel teh whole plot but when nearly all the major things about characters are totally optional to find out it's annoying.

However, this is alll I will say. I do not wish to anger the gods (Prak) with my complaints about the game.

The reason the story was rubbish was because Paine had little, if anything, to do with the plot. In my opinion, she ruined that great Final Fantasy X feel with her atrocious "gothic" demeanor. Otherwise, I considered it a fairly good game.

The reason the story was rubbish was because Paine had little, if anything, to do with the plot. In my opinion, she ruined that great Final Fantasy X feel with her atrocious "gothic" demeanor. Otherwise, I considered it a fairly good game.

Do you mean she ruined X-2? because Paine was not in FFX. Maybe you're thinking of Lulu.

The topic of this thread is - "Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?"
Where does that leave confusion as to which game I am referring to?

Getting off topic, in Final Fantasy X at least Lulu played a role in the game and wasn't a constant pessimist. Paine had little backstory and that attitude of her's was overbearingly annoying. Also, because Final Fantasy X-2 is a direct sequel, I can assume it's okay for me to say it has a 'Final Fantasy X' feel to it. Correct?

Also, because Final Fantasy X-2 is a direct sequel, I can assume it's okay for me to say it has a 'Final Fantasy X' feel to it. Correct?

Yeah. I just didn't entirely understand what you were saying. My bad.

A lot of guys were expecting hot lesbo action to be the focal point of FFX-2; which is not the case.

EDIT: I probably meant a lot of "girlfriend-less" guys :-\

Yeah. I just didn't entirely understand what you were saying. My bad.

Don't take it personal, I'm not attacking you. Just getting my point across.



A lot of guys were expecting hot lesbo action to be the focal point of FFX-2; which is not the case.

EDIT: I probably meant a lot of "girlfriend-less" guys :-\

Eventually one of the developers will slip up and release some secret mini-game similar to "Hot Coffee" of GTA. I'm counting down the days.

it waz a ledge game and anyone who doesnt say its good just talks crazy


and then his eyes clouded, "Sonic" he said," i love you"

The topic of this thread is - "Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?"
Where does that leave confusion as to which game I am referring to?

Getting off topic, in Final Fantasy X at least Lulu played a role in the game and wasn't a constant pessimist. Paine had little backstory and that attitude of her's was overbearingly annoying. Also, because Final Fantasy X-2 is a direct sequel, I can assume it's okay for me to say it has a 'Final Fantasy X' feel to it. Correct?

Actually, I thought the whole idea of FFX-2 was showing the new feel of calm and when people are on their own without a common threat.

BTW: I liked Paine. But I played FFX-2 before FFX, so I can't even entirely imagine how you got her served.

people people

come on, it was all the yuna this and yuna that attention that gave this game a kick in the arse :smrt:

i have to agree with this statement I could not stand 30+ hours of yunaplooza ugh

OK, it wasn't as good as say, X or XII, but in my opinion, it wasn't a dreadful game. While I'm willing to admit the plot was a little loose (Shuyin was one of the worst villains ever) and the dressphere/ability system wasn't as in depth as it could've been, I feel the game did what it was intended to do, that is, be a light-hearted sequel to FFX that focused on Yuna, with a moderately interesting plot of its own...


I actually disagree. I enjoyed this game much more then FF10. I don't know what it was, but I think it was the whole female thing that they did. I don't really enjoy playing males so...I guess thats what glued me to FFX-2. haha

It's a good game but it's way too girly and to get the good ending you have to do random things. You have to press X three times when you hear a whistle, I mean what the fuck?

yeah that bit is annoying

but the game didnt have to be better then ffx, we wernt expecting to be, and even though it isnt as good as x, its still better then most repetitive r.p.gs around, i for one want a third but i know theres a forum for it

Reasons believing because :
1> Its not like the original PS1 versions where it had good storylines and basicly overall good gameplay.
2>FF X was mostly focused on Yuna more then Tidus.
3>FF X-2 is a terrible even reviews said "its only for people who like to see that kinda "stuff".
4>Once it hit PS2 it sucked because they thought it would be better because graphics wise and gameplay wise.
5>Who in the world would want to go back again to the same places from FF X? Oh wow a little changing here and there and some remixed music plus some "new" added bosses seriously?


Come on Rikku has barely even clothing on besides when changing dresssphere. Yuna almost turned out to be a slut (srry but its true >.<). Paine is just..well Paine >.>.

is that bad!

Oh and the minigames like matching up the monkeys and selling the concert tickets were really pointless and annoying.

not to mention the character development or lack of it for certain supposedly important people you know like rikku and paine. and nooj,gippal and baralai were pretty random in the end. Also "him,you know who" I mean what the hell you know that you couldn't say his name in the sequel cause you got to pick it in the first one but it's still annoying. And another thing I would like to know what shuyin even existed for, and lenne was so much cooler than yuna that I was wishing for LRP by the time I finished the game. Oh and not enough cut scenes for me. I kinda wanted to see leblanc and her gang in one you know.
And as a side note it would have been cool if lenne got a character cd right

Oh and the minigames like matching up the monkeys and selling the concert tickets were really pointless and annoying.


Granted the mini games did suck, but for some reason I actually didn't mind matching up the monkeys. I think it was because they were some of the cutest pixelated monkeys I've ever seen <3. Btw Harkus cool Zidane avatar ;).

FFIX > FFX-2

Btw Harkus cool Zidane avatar ;).


Why thank you.

FFX-2 is quite low on my list of best FF games, it's good but it sorta ruined FFX.

Its probably Disasterrific...

Its probably Disasterrific...

ROFLMAO

Its probably Disasterrific...

Lol I remember that quote from Rikku in this game XD.

I think FFX wasnt so bad ,but it was not that was i expected.Tidus ...em yes my mom asked me as i played it, if he took drugs or why he walk so interesting ..and then sentences like i don�t know how to laugh...in this moments i didnt know if i should laugh or cry. It was a good game but not so good like FF7 of FF8.

lol I missed playing as tidus during this game

me too.

Personally, I didn't like Tidus. He was such a sook. =D

Anyways back to the topic in question, "Why do people say X-2 was a terrible game?"

Well for me, I never owned a PlayStation, so I never knew of the Final Fantasy games. It wasn't until 2004 that I saw a poster that caught my attention. That game was X-2. The picture of Yuna holding the guns and the way the picture was just so colourful brought my attention to this game. By then I had a PS2 and it was probably the first FF game I played. Now, I've backtracked and played all the old games and am finishing FFXII. So for me without FFX-2, I probably wouldn't have been introduced to the world of Final Fantasy.

Also, I didn't mind the battle system for this. Obviously being the first time playing FF this was probably a way for me to get used to the ATB and I personally loved the dressphere system. the fact that you could change jobs on the spot was really creative in my mind and allowed for more mobility. Although the Garment Grids themselves were restricted, changing jobs on the go proved useful for me. =D

I can understand that it was you first FF but after backtracking through the series can you see why it would be a little disappointing for long time fans? I know people who like mini quest and puzzle games that say it's the best FF but Because I'm a fan of a "more traditional Rpg" or whatever It left a lot to be desired for me though it was fun for a while. I just traded it in actually and I'm a little sad. (but It's only like $14.00 so I might buy it again If I really want to.)

I can understand that it was you first FF but after backtracking through the series can you see why it would be a little disappointing for long time fans? I know people who like mini quest and puzzle games that say it's the best FF but Because I'm a fan of a "more traditional Rpg" or whatever It left a lot to be desired for me though it was fun for a while. I just traded it in actually and I'm a little sad. (but It's only like $14.00 so I might buy it again If I really want to.)

Well, I still stand by what I say about FFX-2 cause even though I can see that it strayed away from the traditional Final Fantasy setting, I still thought it was a decent enough game to play and enjoy. After backtracking, I can see why people may not like FFX-2 but you have to at least apprciate the time and effort put into making FFX-2. And you have to consider FFX-2 to be a milestone for the FF series as it's the only direct sequel to an actual FF game series. Also I wouldn't say Square was capatilising on the success of FFX by making FFX-2. More like a "what if?" scenario after the events of FFX-2. And that's my small rant on FFX-2 there. ^^

FFX-2 is well made, it just wasn't universal enough to suit any interest.

At times it lacked boldness too. Like in storyline.

I still think Wakka marrying Lulu was rather rash, though. I still see them like brother and sister when playing FFX.

Edit: Umm, were they really married? Do people marry in Spira? Or have they just had a baby? Can't remember.

Do people marry in Spira? .

Remember Seymour and Yuna in FFX?

I remember that well. I really hated and enjoyed that part at the same time. I hated the fights and loved the graphics.

X-2 wasn't that bad. It wasn't that great either. Excellent battle / job system though :D

FFX-2 was a decent sequel, given the ending of FFX. But I don't think it's a great standalone Final Fantasy game. For me, Vegnagun, the Shuyin twist, and the stereotypically feminine aspects of the game (ie garment grids and dresspheres) bring it down.

and plus rikku never got any storyline (still one of my biggest gripes about the game) It would have made the time I spent playing the game more enjoyable If I could see my favorite "main" character get some storyline.

Final Fantasy X-2 wasn't terrible in the least. Most people who say that just played through the must missions only, instead of playing the side quest. To get the most out of the game. you need to play everything, not just the must missions. I use to think the game sucked, because I just breezed through it and didn't hardly understood anything. It was through playing the sidequest that the full story came about and I enjoyed it. In short, play the entire game.

Thanks. I didnt know how to get the most out of a video game.

I heard about someone who was playing FFX at the laughing scene, and his uncle happened to come in the room at the time and had a heart attack and died.

Not sure about the dying part though tbh...

I think Square vastly underestimated the masculinity of the American audience. I'm sure an RPG starring three scantily-clad women would be a smash in fetishistic Japan; however, fans stateside still prefer to see bad-ass warrior monks kick ass and get the girl in the end.

As a woman, I enjoyed FFX-2 a lot, although I have to be honest and admit it was largely because of the tragic love story and the light-hearted girlish fun. :)

I heard about someone who was playing FFX at the laughing scene, and his uncle happened to come in the room at the time and had a heart attack and died.

Not sure about the dying part though tbh...

I can seriously believe that - most painful videogame scene I've ever seen.

I can seriously believe that - most painful videogame scene I've ever seen.

To be fair that scene is awful.

I think Square vastly underestimated the masculinity of the American audience. I'm sure an RPG starring three scantily-clad women would be a smash in fetishistic Japan; however, fans stateside still prefer to see bad-ass warrior monks kick ass and get the girl in the end.

As a woman, I enjoyed FFX-2 a lot, although I have to be honest and admit it was largely because of the tragic love story and the light-hearted girlish fun. :)

I appreciate semi-naked women, not RPing them.

I figure the game wasn't terrible since I bothered to complete it, but the frequent instances of "girlish fun" were lost on me. I think If it wasn't marketed as a Final Fantasy, I probably wouldn't have bought it.

Thank god you can skip scenes in this game.

Final Fantasy X-2 is the ultimate camp in video games. It was great.

haha, i totally agree

I actually thought X-2 was very good gameplay-wise. Of course that wasn't the main reason i bought the game. I was really looking forward to the sequel of FFX because the ending left me so unsatisfied. I was very disappointed with the story and the cheesy characters but the 100% challenge the fact that you can keep your items after you beat it made it very fun. I also think it has the best replay value of all final fantasys :p. Would've been nice though if there were more characters and something that made each character different from one another, like a limit break or difference in stat increase. It just bothered me that all three characters were really no different from each other in terms of abilities and stats.

Some dumbs dont like final fantasy X2 because they didnt got what the game was actually meant to do...
The other reason is no-one expected complete girl dominance..

i said dumbs dont like FFX2....same suggests the fact that FFX2 got great scores i.e. 90+ in all major game review sites because the editors and critics there understand the deepness of the game and what it was meant to do...

What do you think the game was meant to do then?

What do you think the game was meant to do then?

These should help you


- IGN
"Square Enix returns to the world of Spira with a new attitude and new gameplay for one of the PlayStation 2's best videogames yet."



GAME CHRONICLES

Building off of one of the most beloved stories in the history of gaming, Final Fantasy X-2 paints an epic tale while sporting an uncommonly, enjoyably light-hearted approach to much of it. It holds its own not just as a sequel but as a true, full-fledged Final Fantasy title in its own right. The title's revamped combat is the nicest surprise I've received all year and the class-changing system is a blast to use. With spot-on music and voice acting, and the always spectacular graphics of the series, Final Fantasy X-2 is a winner on all counts and the most refreshing RPG experience I've had in a long time.



GAMESPOT
"Ultimately, the game has an undeniable charm, thanks to its engaging story, high production values, and involving gameplay."



WIKIPEDIA
The English release of Final Fantasy X-2 won the Seventh Annual Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences award in 2004 for Outstanding Achievement in Character Performance in recognition of the character Rikku

You misunderstand my post, I know what this game was meant to do and I was dissapointed about it. I asked for what you thought of the game, I never asked for website quotes, I simply wanted to hear what you had to say considering everyone is dumb if they don'y understand it like apparently you do.

nobody really thinks the game was absolute crap that could not be played. But we were disappointed that it wasn't on par with it's predecessor or any other FF
at the time. Though it's not as bad as FF12 in my opinion

Hmmm, well, storywise, it wasn't very good, but the battle and dressphere systems were excellent. I also liked the mission based structure and the fact it gave a completion percentage.

So basically, gameplay=good, story=not so good. It was fun to play though, and I'd still class it as a good game. It'd be above I,II,III, and XII, at the very least in my books, XII especially, which had the same thing, story=not so good, gameplay=good, except the gameplay in XII got boring, whereas in X-2 it didn't.

Of course this is all opinion, overall I'm glad they made the game, and I think it has more replayability than most FFs.

i like X-2 & thats all that matters. i dont give a fuck what anybody else thinks

I don't outright hate X-2, but too many things got on my nerves for me to really enjoy it.

Yuna and Rikku annoyed the hell out of me with their overdone bubbly personalities. On the other side of the scale I found Paine to be too bland and boring. I didn't particularly care about her or her past. Most of the crew of the Celsius was pretty damn annoying too as was Leblanc and her gang. Precious few characters grated on my nerves. Gippal, Baralai, Nooj, and Buddy were pretty much the only characters I could stand for more than five minutes.

Yuna's insta-singing ability along with most of X-2 music was absolutely horrid. I think there was only about... two? Maybe three songs that I liked in the entire game. I might have liked Yuna Spears more if they'd cast a better English singer. The girl they got for her singing voice positively howled like a wounded cat at some points. Her singing during the credits especially makes me cringe. That really has no bearing on the game, but it's still horrible XD

The dresspheres were kind of neat, but I also kind of wanted more variety in regard to their individual abilities. I liked the Mascot and Trainer dresspheres, anything with variation because it gave me the differences I craved. Berserker was a wicked dressphere too even though it didn't give me any variation.

The bloody commspheres. I hated those so, so, so much. They were tedious and annoying. I was so happy to skip over them during my second playthrough. I saw no benefit to having them other than the amount of game % they gave you.

The story bugged me too. I just couldn't get into it nor could I sympathize with Shuyin or Yuna. I wanted to give both Shuyin and Yuna a good boot in the arse at times.

The battle system was pretty good, but the girls kept getting hung up on each other when fighting fiends. Even when I told them to attack a fiend right in front of their nose they'd still manage to somehow get caught up on each other.

Also... Wakka and Lulu? Wtf #1? Lulu is pregnant? Wtf #2? Lulu does not look pregnant at all yet pops out a baby before the game ends? Wtf #3? True, all three of these things are small details, but they bugged me all the same.

However, despite all that, I was compelled to play X-2 twice in order to get 100% and view the "perfect ending". But, even that annoyed me as getting 100% was bloody tedious and the "perfect ending" wasn't worth the aggravation. I'll also probably never play X-2 again and I like my games to have replay value [to replay it more than twice I mean ;)].

You were all just pissed off because it had tits and vaginas and hardly any dicks in it. *Ducks and runs*

Not really true. The women were outnumbered by men.

I agree with Erebus. For me, FFX-2 wasn't terrible, nor was it bad or even mediocre.

I actually thought it was good, but not great. The thing that killed it for me was the lame story- the story was just AWFUL. And what I couldn't particularly stand was the craptastic dialogue. (who wrote the damn script for it?) The list goes on, but they're mostly just minor nitpicks like the annoying commsphere dialogues and the ones that Erebus mentioned which that doesn't significantly impact the game in a terrible way for me. I did, however, like the kick-ass battle system, dress spheres, and the overall light hearted feeling of it. :)

Compared to most FF games it is pretty bad.

The funny thing is as much as real emotion was laughable if you listen to any of jade/sweetbox's other songs they are rather good. I would bet that if they let her rewrite and sing the songs they would have been much better I doubt anyone will believe me but you should see for your self
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEwPV-NT3J4 ffx-2 op
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa3tWB99nMo a song off of her new album.
sounds a lot better then real emotion if you ask me lol.
Not that it was the only problem with the game though

The game depended on Tidus (or whatever you named him) not being a dream, which, of course, he was. So Yuna's basically chasing after something that's inevitably contrary to her hopes. Plus, Vegnagun was a stupid addition, but what was worse was the presence of the New Yevon group, even though it was shown that Yevon was a major bad guy in FFX.

Compared to other Final Fantasies, it's lacking. Considered just as a game, it's pretty good.

I have been thinking about this for a while, and there were many problem with the game. Having beaten FFV recently, I see were FFX-2 truly missed the point. The class system, the aeons, the musical score, and choice of job classes. Now, I must say, it's not the worst game on the PS2, or even the worst game of all time, weve all seen games that were so much more horrid then X-2, but there is no denying that X-2 was likely the worst in the series. As stated, i will now explain myself fully.

The class system. This was ingenius at the time, were yiou could swap between classes, which is pretty neat, and the fact that you can learn stronger moves faster is cool. However, all of this means nothing if you can't equip any of the abilities you learned to your characters. Meaning your characters have to do a giant grindfest to get every fucking dressphere, so you're character's are strong enough to fight the last boss. Who, is rather shit anyways, but it defeats the fucking purpose of having a class system if you ask me.

Now we get to the aeons, who played a very important role in the original Final Fantasy X. Now, their role is nothing, except for "beat them and stuff." What the fuck? I mean, you guys could've involved them in the story a bit more... like "beat them, then use them" THAT'S what made Final Fantasy games awesome in the first place. I mean, Yuna may have given up being a Summoner, but that change the fact that she could still know how to call them? No going through Cloister of Trials, no reason to use aeons, or summon magic. WHAT THE HELL! I see no pratical reason to exclude the aeons from the story this fucking much, moreso, that you can't even use them, even after you wooped their asses? Man, it's fucked.

Now to the staple of all Final Fantasy games: The musical score. Now, it's usually bliss, and there is usually nothing wrong with it. I mean, Nobuo Uematsu is a legend right? Oh... wait... he had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this game. NOW I KNOW WHY THE MUSIC IN THIS GAME IS GARBAGE! I mean, putting Real Emotion aside, that is actually a catchy song, despite it being very lame. No, the score completely changed. i mean, the battle music is basically a poor, poor, poor excuse for 70's-80's pop rock. I know, it was supposed to have a Charlie's Angels feel to the game, but there is no reason why tracks like Fanfare, and the Prelude aren't included. Now, back to Uematsu. During the production of FFX-2, Uematsu formally left Square Enix, and started Smile Please, to work with other companies including Square, and Mistwalker. Now, he might not have had much time to have his supervision over the game, but he really should've been there, because the game could've really used his music. Not some bland pop shit that makes you hit the mute button on your remote every damn time.

Now, we get to the choice of the classes. Here, we have such staple classes such White Mage, Black Mage, Blue Mage (well, Gun mage, but still), Warrior, Thief, Samurai, and others. But, we also have classes like Mascot, Lady Luck, Berserker, Dark Knight, Songstress, and the special classes. Now, alot of these classes are great, Warrior, and Samurai are very powerful. Dark Knight reminds me of FFIV and the best male protagonist ever in a FF game, Cecil. But, there is no Paladin class, which is depressing, considering how powerful Cecil was in the game. Now, Black Mage, White Mage, Thief, Lady Luck, the special classes, Gun Mage, Berserker, Trainer and Chemist are all lame in this game. Usually, Black Mage is the best in the game, but without Flare, it's depressing, and the Garment Grid system pretty much defeats the purpose of having a black mage. Thief is lame.. but that's pretty much expected considering what the Dressphere looks like... I'm trying to play this game, not learn how to become a rapist. The special classes? it's basically a horrid substitute for the aeons. And they look horrible too; seriously, Paine's looks like an accident waiting to happen. Yuna's is a giant vagina joke, and Rikku's... actually, it's not bad, but you get what I'm saying. Now, they totally neglected such awesome classes such as Dragoon, and Ninja. they could of easily put those in there. Hell, they should've had Beastmaster instead of tamer, it would make learning those Blue Mage skills alot easier. speaking of which, in FFV you only have to hit your blue mage once, and everyone will learn the spell. It's ridiculous.

Now, i'm probably neglecting many other flaws, but these ones, for me take the cake. They could've done so much more, but hey; what can you do.

Everyone seems to hate the CommSpheres... why? I found that to be the most interesting/amusing part of the game.

Of course, if you're trying to go for 100% and see getting them all as a chore, that I can understand, but as a free thing that was actually my favorite part of the whole game.

Music bad you say? Well, the battle music might not be all that, but I can't see why any sane person would like X's Guadosalam better than X-2's.

Or the music in Zanarkand Ruins... though I agree with you that the battle themes were awful and putting their own fanfare in was a bad idea.

But you gotta admit, the chase music known as "Under Bevelle" was awesome (NOT the dark mysterious music played under Bevelle). I don't know why they called it that, it's used it a lot of chase scenes outside there too.

I hated the commspheres because I didn't really care when flat-stomached Lulu was having her baby, that Wakka couldn't keep still, what Lian and Aide were doing, how frenetic Yaibal had become, or who else didn't really care about respecting the Ronso's sacred hot springs. Except for the few hints you get about the game I found the conversations in the commspheres to be some of the most boring and pointless ones in the entire game.

X-2 Zanarkand's music sounded like a porn score. High-class porn music, but porn music nonetheless. I couldn't keep a straight face in Zanarkand. I kept giggling.

X-2 Guadosalam's theme annoyed the hell out of me. In fact I muted most of X-2 and listened to my own music when I was running around the "world map".

But yes, I did rather enjoy both of X-2 Bevelle's themes. So that's two of the possible three songs that I actually liked. I cannot think of the third for the life of me though. Maybe it was only two...

I don't outright hate X-2, but too many things got on my nerves for me to really enjoy it.

Yuna and Rikku annoyed the hell out of me with their overdone bubbly personalities. On the other side of the scale I found Paine to be too bland and boring. I didn't particularly care about her or her past. Most of the crew of the Celsius was pretty damn annoying too as was Leblanc and her gang. Precious few characters grated on my nerves. Gippal, Baralai, Nooj, and Buddy were pretty much the only characters I could stand for more than five minutes.

How do you expect them to act, after what transpired in FFX, exactly?


Yuna's insta-singing ability along with most of X-2 music was absolutely horrid. I think there was only about... two? Maybe three songs that I liked in the entire game. I might have liked Yuna Spears more if they'd cast a better English singer. The girl they got for her singing voice positively howled like a wounded cat at some points. Her singing during the credits especially makes me cringe. That really has no bearing on the game, but it's still horrible XD

Be that as it may, it doesnt mean its BAD. And it fits with the mood of the game so it at least makes sense.


The dresspheres were kind of neat, but I also kind of wanted more variety in regard to their individual abilities. I liked the Mascot and Trainer dresspheres, anything with variation because it gave me the differences I craved. Berserker was a wicked dressphere too even though it didn't give me any variation.

Lets see, we have White Mage, Black Mage, Bushido, Dark Knight, Berserker, Mascot, Trainer and numerous others. Just how much variety do you want????


The bloody commspheres. I hated those so, so, so much. They were tedious and annoying. I was so happy to skip over them during my second playthrough. I saw no benefit to having them other than the amount of game % they gave you.

More like, they're something fresh and different from running around all the time.


The story bugged me too. I just couldn't get into it nor could I sympathize with Shuyin or Yuna. I wanted to give both Shuyin and Yuna a good boot in the arse at times.

It's not the greatest story in the world granted, but its solid enough, well paced and there are no glaringly obvious plot holes.


The battle system was pretty good, but the girls kept getting hung up on each other when fighting fiends. Even when I told them to attack a fiend right in front of their nose they'd still manage to somehow get caught up on each other.

Um, what? I have never seen anything like this. It sounds to me you're trying to come up with as much bullshit as possible to try and reinforce your already weak arguements against the game.


Also... Wakka and Lulu? Wtf #1? Lulu is pregnant? Wtf #2? Lulu does not look pregnant at all yet pops out a baby before the game ends? Wtf #3? True, all three of these things are small details, but they bugged me all the same.

Amazing what can happen in 2 years isnt it? Who'd have thought that living in the same villiage, being guardians for the same person and going on the quest that saves the world would bring 2 people close together!


Compared to most FF games it is pretty bad.

No, it isnt.


I have been thinking about this for a while, and there were many problem with the game. Having beaten FFV recently, I see were FFX-2 truly missed the point. The class system, the aeons, the musical score, and choice of job classes. Now, I must say, it's not the worst game on the PS2, or even the worst game of all time, weve all seen games that were so much more horrid then X-2, but there is no denying that X-2 was likely the worst in the series. As stated, i will now explain myself fully.

What is the point exactly? Where is the law that says all games in the same franchise must follow an exact set of rules? Why must they all be emo faggot fests, like FFVII?


The class system. This was ingenius at the time, were yiou could swap between classes, which is pretty neat, and the fact that you can learn stronger moves faster is cool. However, all of this means nothing if you can't equip any of the abilities you learned to your characters. Meaning your characters have to do a giant grindfest to get every fucking dressphere, so you're character's are strong enough to fight the last boss. Who, is rather shit anyways, but it defeats the fucking purpose of having a class system if you ask me.

This is no different then ANY other FF game. At least X-2 tried something new and made the actual combat as fluid as they could.


Now we get to the aeons, who played a very important role in the original Final Fantasy X. Now, their role is nothing, except for "beat them and stuff." What the fuck? I mean, you guys could've involved them in the story a bit more... like "beat them, then use them" THAT'S what made Final Fantasy games awesome in the first place. I mean, Yuna may have given up being a Summoner, but that change the fact that she could still know how to call them? No going through Cloister of Trials, no reason to use aeons, or summon magic. WHAT THE HELL! I see no pratical reason to exclude the aeons from the story this fucking much, moreso, that you can't even use them, even after you wooped their asses? Man, it's fucked.

Probably because they're dead....


Now to the staple of all Final Fantasy games: The musical score. Now, it's usually bliss, and there is usually nothing wrong with it. I mean, Nobuo Uematsu is a legend right? Oh... wait... he had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this game. NOW I KNOW WHY THE MUSIC IN THIS GAME IS GARBAGE! I mean, putting Real Emotion aside, that is actually a catchy song, despite it being very lame. No, the score completely changed. i mean, the battle music is basically a poor, poor, poor excuse for 70's-80's pop rock. I know, it was supposed to have a Charlie's Angels feel to the game, but there is no reason why tracks like Fanfare, and the Prelude aren't included. Now, back to Uematsu. During the production of FFX-2, Uematsu formally left Square Enix, and started Smile Please, to work with other companies including Square, and Mistwalker. Now, he might not have had much time to have his supervision over the game, but he really should've been there, because the game could've really used his music. Not some bland pop shit that makes you hit the mute button on your remote every damn time.

This is so absurd it made me laugh. The music, despite whether you like it not, FITS WITH THE ATOMESPHERE OF THE GAME. Also, Charlies Angels? Who's Charlie in the game then?


Now, we get to the choice of the classes. Here, we have such staple classes such White Mage, Black Mage, Blue Mage (well, Gun mage, but still), Warrior, Thief, Samurai, and others. But, we also have classes like Mascot, Lady Luck, Berserker, Dark Knight, Songstress, and the special classes. Now, alot of these classes are great, Warrior, and Samurai are very powerful. Dark Knight reminds me of FFIV and the best male protagonist ever in a FF game, Cecil. But, there is no Paladin class, which is depressing, considering how powerful Cecil was in the game. Now, Black Mage, White Mage, Thief, Lady Luck, the special classes, Gun Mage, Berserker, Trainer and Chemist are all lame in this game. Usually, Black Mage is the best in the game, but without Flare, it's depressing, and the Garment Grid system pretty much defeats the purpose of having a black mage. Thief is lame.. but that's pretty much expected considering what the Dressphere looks like... I'm trying to play this game, not learn how to become a rapist. The special classes? it's basically a horrid substitute for the aeons. And they look horrible too; seriously, Paine's looks like an accident waiting to happen. Yuna's is a giant vagina joke, and Rikku's... actually, it's not bad, but you get what I'm saying. Now, they totally neglected such awesome classes such as Dragoon, and Ninja. they could of easily put those in there. Hell, they should've had Beastmaster instead of tamer, it would make learning those Blue Mage skills alot easier. speaking of which, in FFV you only have to hit your blue mage once, and everyone will learn the spell. It's ridiculous.

Bawwwwwwwwwwwww

How do you expect them to act, after what transpired in FFX, exactly?
I expected them to act as they did in FFX. It seemed like the whole X experience made Yuna regress instead of mature. And Rikku's bubbly personality was tolerable in X. In my opinion they ramped up her personality in X-2 to the point that it became unbearable at points. Everything was overdone.


Be that as it may, it doesnt mean its BAD. And it fits with the mood of the game so it at least makes sense.
Could you specify as to what you're first statement is referring to? As for the second I found that some of the music did not fit. Yes, some of the scores did indeed fit with the area you were currently exploring, but it was quite painful or annoying to listen to. Just because it fits in with the mood of the game doesn't make it GOOD.


Lets see, we have White Mage, Black Mage, Bushido, Dark Knight, Berserker, Mascot, Trainer and numerous others. Just how much variety do you want????
I said I wanted more variety among the abilities. White Mage, Black Mage, Samurai, Dark Knight, and Berserker all have the same abilities. Which is why I said I liked dresspheres like Mascot and Trainer because they had varying abilities. I also said that I liked Berserker despite its lack of varying abilities.


More like, they're something fresh and different from running around all the time.
You may find sitting around listening to people prattle on about the most boring and pointless things "fresh and different" but I certainly don't.


It's not the greatest story in the world granted, but its solid enough, well paced and there are no glaringly obvious plot holes.
"Solid enough" isn't good enough for me to really enjoy a game. If that's good enough for you then more power to you.


Um, what? I have never seen anything like this. It sounds to me you're trying to come up with as much bullshit as possible to try and reinforce your already weak arguements against the game.
Ha ha. Because you personally haven't seen it means it hasn't happened? It's happened to me and several of my friends. I even saw someone around here on the forums complaining of this phenomena.


Amazing what can happen in 2 years isnt it? Who'd have thought that living in the same villiage, being guardians for the same person and going on the quest that saves the world would bring 2 people close together!
And yet there was absolutely no basis for it set up in X. Wakka and Lulu both demonstrate respect for each other and are obviously friends, but I saw no romantic inklings whatsoever. Nor did I see anything in Lulu's character that suggested that she'd settle down and have a child in a mere two years. The match makes no sense and that is the point. The things you listed are not enough to build a romantic relationship on, let alone marriage and a child. It all felt like a weak excuse to push Wakka and Lulu to the sidelines.

I have no clue as to why you're being overtly hostile over any of this. I'm guessing that X-2 is one of your favorites and you can't stand anything negative being said about it? If that is the case and my opinion of X-2 offended you then I truly am sorry, but I will always stand by my opinion. I say again that I did not hate X-2, but I could not find it really enjoyable either because of the reasons already listed.

I expected them to act as they did in FFX. It seemed like the whole X experience made Yuna regress instead of mature. And Rikku's bubbly personality was tolerable in X. In my opinion they ramped up her personality in X-2 to the point that it became unbearable at points. Everything was overdone.

You're missing the point completely.

And to expect them to act the same as FFX is downright stupid, frankly.

Picture it, you've been living in a world of fear and terror all your life, suddenly all that is gone and you are free to live and enjoy life. How would you act?


I said I wanted more variety among the abilities. White Mage, Black Mage, Samurai, Dark Knight, and Berserker all have the same abilities. Which is why I said I liked dresspheres like Mascot and Trainer because they had varying abilities. I also said that I liked Berserker despite its lack of varying abilities.

To the best of my memory, each DS had about 8-12 different skills each. Just what the fuck do you want from the game? And way to contradict yourself.


You may find sitting around listening to people prattle on about the most boring and pointless things "fresh and different" but I certainly don't.

Good for you. It's not exactly pointless when you consider you're rewarded for watching everything throughly.



"Solid enough" isn't good enough for me to really enjoy a game. If that's good enough for you then more power to you.

Considering the tripe thats endlessly produced in game after game, yes it is good enough for me. If I want a riveting, entralling storyline, ill read a book. Storyline is a very small factor in what makes a good game, anyway.



Ha ha. Because you personally haven't seen it means it hasn't happened? It's happened to me and several of my friends. I even saw someone around here on the forums complaining of this phenomena.

Prove how this so called phenomena interferes with or disrupts a battle in any way.



And yet there was absolutely no basis for it set up in X. Wakka and Lulu both demonstrate respect for each other and are obviously friends, but I saw no romantic inklings whatsoever. Nor did I see anything in Lulu's character that suggested that she'd settle down and have a child in a mere two years. The match makes no sense and that is the point. The things you listed are not enough to build a romantic relationship on, let alone marriage and a child. It all felt like a weak excuse to push Wakka and Lulu to the sidelines.

Amazing how things change over time, isnt it?


I have no clue as to why you're being overtly hostile over any of this. I'm guessing that X-2 is one of your favorites and you can't stand anything negative being said about it? If that is the case and my opinion of X-2 offended you then I truly am sorry, but I will always stand by my opinion. I say again that I did not hate X-2, but I could not find it really enjoyable either because of the reasons already listed.

No, I enjoyed the game nothing more. I played it to 100% and then moved on.

And if you do not have the thick skin required to debate with people here, I suggest you find another forum as there are plenty of other people who are better debaters and indeed much more abrasive then me who would be willing to debate with you should they desire it.

You're missing the point completely.

And to expect them to act the same as FFX is downright stupid, frankly.

Picture it, you've been living in a world of fear and terror all your life, suddenly all that is gone and you are free to live and enjoy life. How would you act?

I expected them (Yuna moreso) to mature from their experience, not regress. Yuna was quite mature for her age in X. That is what I expected from her. For her to learn from X and mature. There were points in X-2 where I thought Rikku and Yuna were going to add "LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!" onto their sentences. The upbeat attitude was overdone. I most likely wouldn't have minded Yuna's lack of maturity as much if it all hadn't been so overdone.


To the best of my memory, each DS had about 8-12 different skills each. Just what the fuck do you want from the game? And way to contradict yourself.
But it's the same set of skills. That is the point. I think it would've been neat if the dresspheres had "the basics" then each girl had their own "unique skills". To make each dressphere special and unique to each girl. And I don't see where I contradicted myself. I'm not allowed to like a dressphere with no variety and yearn for variety? It's like having a strawberry, liking the strawberry, but yearning for a smear of chocolate on top.


Good for you. It's not exactly pointless when you consider you're rewarded for watching everything throughly.
Among the prattle the commspheres contained basic clues that you didn't need to advance in the game and things you can figure out for yourself. Those few tiny clues and the game % is the only benefit. That doesn't make up for their tediousness and the pointlessness of some of the commsphere conversations.


Considering the tripe thats endlessly produced in game after game, yes it is good enough for me. If I want a riveting, entralling storyline, ill read a book. Storyline is a very small factor in what makes a good game, anyway.
I think storyline is a major factor in what makes a good game. Now I'm quite curious as to what you think is a "big factor" in what makes a good game.


Prove how this so called phenomena interferes with or disrupts a battle in any way.
Yuna is dead. Paine and Rikku are in yellow health. I told Paine to attack the fiend. She got hung up on Rikku and therefore could not attack. I told Rikku to attack the fiend, but I didn't move fast enough. The fiend attacks and kills Paine before she can free herself from her hang up on Rikku. Rikku manages to attack the fiend, but she is not strong enough and the fiend kills her. The end for YRP.


Amazing how things change over time, isnt it?
No, not really. It just affirmed Square's general laziness with X-2. I will not accept that sort of thing plunked in front of me without question.


No, I enjoyed the game nothing more. I played it to 100% and then moved on.

And if you do not have the thick skin required to debate with people here, I suggest you find another forum as there are plenty of other people who are better debaters and indeed much more abrasive then me who would be willing to debate with you should they desire it.
My skin is quite thick. I thank you for your concern. However I've never seen the need nor the point of overt hostility in a "debate". Especially during a �debate� over something you feel no real passion for.

I must agree with erebus.

They should be much more mature especially yuna but rikku also. I understand that they are trying to enjoy life in a new spira but shouldn't they learn from X and not be so reckless. I know that it's in rikku's nature but after having to be the one who tells tidus all about the summoner's and their fate and sort of being his "guide" around spira and losing him after it all shouldn't she have matured.
Yuna on the other hand not only did she lose tidus but she went through the experience of being a summoner losing her aeons and defeating sin she should have been more mature right? Pain was let's face it an overdone lulu.

The dresspheres annoyed me frankly I mean after you find the first 8 or so the next one's just repeat themselves with different outfits to try and see how little clothes the girls can wear and keep a T rating. Oh wait THIS IS TETSUYA NOMURA. Not that I don't like his work but could he have anymore fan service all over the place?

As far as commspheres go it was an annoying chore especially when you had to sit there and watch one of leblanc's goons steal them. I remember always having my Ds or psp handy for those scenes.

Don't people play Rpg's because they have better story line's then most game genres? Well I do and I could have excepted this game's storyline if X hadn't been so much better.

I have seen the characters tangle up on each other. It didn't cause me the issues it caused Erebus but it did happen.

What was the point of wakka and lulu being married and having a baby? I don't care how it happened it was stupid. After all they went through together wakka and lulu wouldn't have just watched everything happen without going to help yuna and rikku. So they just needed a reason to have them watch from the sidelines to make room for paine. (Who by the way reached levels of emo squall and cloud could only dream of.)

Oh and one more thing gippal was one of my favorite characters in this game and it seems to me the only one with a drop of sense but what was the point of the machine faction?

But yes, I did rather enjoy both of X-2 Bevelle's themes. So that's two of the possible three songs that I actually liked. I cannot think of the third for the life of me though. Maybe it was only two...

How about "Demise"? come on...

And I agree with what Moonlapse is saying... keep the arguement going.

I expected them (Yuna moreso) to mature from their experience, not regress. Yuna was quite mature for her age in X. That is what I expected from her. For her to learn from X and mature. There were points in X-2 where I thought Rikku and Yuna were going to add "LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!" onto their sentences. The upbeat attitude was overdone. I most likely wouldn't have minded Yuna's lack of maturity as much if it all hadn't been so overdone.

You are not even listening to what I am saying so I see little reason to try and argue this point any more.


But it's the same set of skills. That is the point. I think it would've been neat if the dresspheres had "the basics" then each girl had their own "unique skills". To make each dressphere special and unique to each girl. And I don't see where I contradicted myself. I'm not allowed to like a dressphere with no variety and yearn for variety? It's like having a strawberry, liking the strawberry, but yearning for a smear of chocolate on top.

Ummm, they do...?

Examples:

Warrior: Various sword attacks
Dark Knight: Death, Bio, Gravity, Dark Sky etc
Black mage: Magic attacks
Thief: Steal and mug based attacks
Trainer: Pet with various attacks

Each character even has THEIR OWN COSTUME. Seriously, how much do you fucking want? Compared to previous titles, this game is bristling with skills and abilities.


I think storyline is a major factor in what makes a good game. Now I'm quite curious as to what you think is a "big factor" in what makes a good game.

Just how important was a storyline in the Half Life franchise, Doom, C&C or any sucessful game? Sure, its a factor, but gameplay and immersiveness are FAR more important. Some exceptions exist alright, but I dont play a game for its storyline, I play it to be entertained. And this is achieved through good gameplay, immersiveness and good pacing. All of which X-2 had.

This is another arguement for another thread however.


Yuna is dead. Paine and Rikku are in yellow health. I told Paine to attack the fiend. She got hung up on Rikku and therefore could not attack. I told Rikku to attack the fiend, but I didn't move fast enough. The fiend attacks and kills Paine before she can free herself from her hang up on Rikku. Rikku manages to attack the fiend, but she is not strong enough and the fiend kills her. The end for YRP.

This is a vauge statement. I asked for PROOF. And have you ever heard of RTB? Yes, that option you can turn on or off in previous titles.

And its not like the game is actually difficult.


No, not really. It just affirmed Square's general laziness with X-2. I will not accept that sort of thing plunked in front of me without question.

Good for you. It makes perfect sense that two people should become romantically involved in that situation.


My skin is quite thick. I thank you for your concern. However I've never seen the need nor the point of overt hostility in a "debate". Especially during a “debate” over something you feel no real passion for.

You are mistaking hostility for bluntness.

You are not even listening to what I am saying so I see little reason to try and argue this point any more.
I did listen. Quite well. However I don't see "Spira is now free of Sin and terror" as an excuse for an over-the-top upbeat personality. That is my point. Upbeat is fine, but they overdid it.


Ummm, they do...?

Examples:

Warrior: Various sword attacks
Dark Knight: Death, Bio, Gravity, Dark Sky etc
Black mage: Magic attacks
Thief: Steal and mug based attacks
Trainer: Pet with various attacks

Each character even has THEIR OWN COSTUME. Seriously, how much do you fucking want? Compared to previous titles, this game is bristling with skills and abilities.
Let me explain this as clearly as I possibly can. Yuna's Black Mage has the exact same skills as Rikku and Paine's Black Mage dressphere. What I think would've been neat is if, for example, Yuna's Black Mage dressphere had "the basics": fire, fira, etc. But also had skills/spells that were unique to Yuna's dressphere. Skills that Rikku and Paine's dressphere did not have because they had their own unique skills. I'm talking about variety among single dresspheres. Not a larger variety of dresspheres themselves.


Just how important was a storyline in the Half Life franchise, Doom, C&C or any sucessful game? Sure, its a factor, but gameplay and immersiveness are FAR more important. Some exceptions exist alright, but I dont play a game for its storyline, I play it to be entertained. And this is achieved through good gameplay, immersiveness and good pacing. All of which X-2 had.

This is another arguement for another thread however.
In this genre I find that story is quite important, but if you don't believe that is so that's quite all right. You're entitled to that.


This is a vauge statement. I asked for PROOF. And have you ever heard of RTB? Yes, that option you can turn on or off in previous titles.

And its not like the game is actually difficult.
It's an exact account of what happened. What else would you have liked? RTB does not effect the hang ups either.


Good for you. It makes perfect sense that two people should become romantically involved in that situation.
No, it really doesn't. Especially when you consider Lulu and Wakka's characters and everything put forth in X. That's the problem with skipping ahead in time. There's no character development to make certain choices believable.


You are mistaking hostility for bluntness.
And I do believe you're mistaken in what you perceive as mere bluntness.


How about "Demise"? come on...

And I agree with what Moonlapse is saying... keep the arguement going.
No, sorry. Demise is not one of the songs I liked. And... who is Moonlapse?

I think the moonlapse thing was sarcasm

If that is so I still don't understand XD

This is going nowhere and will probably result in the flogging of numerous dead horses. Alas, I shall make one final post on the matter.


I did listen. Quite well. However I don't see "Spira is now free of Sin and terror" as an excuse for an over-the-top upbeat personality. That is my point. Upbeat is fine, but they overdid it.

You listen yet you take nothing on board. It obviously makes sense for all the characters to be more fun loving, and all you have to say on the matter is ZOMG DEY WUR OVER THE TOP LOLOL. Fail.


Let me explain this as clearly as I possibly can. Yuna's Black Mage has the exact same skills as Rikku and Paine's Black Mage dressphere. What I think would've been neat is if, for example, Yuna's Black Mage dressphere had "the basics": fire, fira, etc. But also had skills/spells that were unique to Yuna's dressphere. Skills that Rikku and Paine's dressphere did not have because they had their own unique skills. I'm talking about variety among single dresspheres. Not a larger variety of dresspheres themselves.

You do realise that this would result in a complete clusterfuck, dont you?


It's an exact account of what happened. What else would you have liked? RTB does not effect the hang ups either.

That is a statement. I asked for proof.

What is the point exactly? Where is the law that says all games in the same franchise must follow an exact set of rules? Why must they all be emo faggot fests, like FFVII?

First, I'm not a huge fan of VII, and altough I agree it is important to change things up and try something new, they didn't try hard enough to incorperate elements of past class system games, and elements of the fucking game it followed.



This is no different then ANY other FF game. At least X-2 tried something new and made the actual combat as fluid as they could.

Yeah, the combat tried so damn hard to be fulid, but you get very little reward out of leveling your characters. I mean, the actual gameplay is awesome, but it's dealing with trivial elements such as the Garment Girds is really not needed. Except for adding more difficulty. I mean, X-2 , linear story wise is easy, but if you're hardcore enough to get EVERYTHING done then it gets tedious.



Probably because they're dead....

Lolgay. WHAT? COULDN'T USE A PHEONIX DOWN TO REVIVE THEM?



This is so absurd it made me laugh. The music, despite whether you like it not, FITS WITH THE ATOMESPHERE OF THE GAME. Also, Charlies Angels? Who's Charlie in the game then?

Explain how hearing asstastic music every battle suited to the atmosphere? Now, I'm likely overlooking some gems in the soundtrack, but there is no reason for those horrid tracks to be anywhere in the game. As for Charlie... THAT'S OBVIOUS IT'S THE PERSON PLAYING THE GAME! You give the orders, and you don't actually interact with the characters. Brother is Bosley, and yeah.



Bawwwwwwwwwwwww

I'm sorry, please make a coherent point instead of making nonsense... Wait, I think I just contridicted myself with the Pheonix Down comment.. oh well.

You listen yet you take nothing on board. It obviously makes sense for all the characters to be more fun loving, and all you have to say on the matter is ZOMG DEY WUR OVER THE TOP LOLOL. Fail.

I "take nothing on board" because I don't agree with your assessment of things. I'm not just going to turn around and say "LOL! Okay!" because you'd like me to.

And it doesn't make any sense at all to you for Yuna to have grown and matured from her experience in X? There was no maturity growth. Her overdone personality made it seem as if she regressed and learned absolutely nothing from her experience in X. If they merely made her upbeat I most likely wouldn't have cared about her lack of maturity growth as much, but they overdid it. There is such a thing as too much. If they'd made her way, way, way too serious instead I would've had the same problem with her personality.


You do realise that this would result in a complete clusterfuck, dont you?
No, not really. Care to elaborate?


That is a statement. I asked for proof.
And I asked you what exactly you'd like me to produce other than a statement of events.

Okay, I can't take the retardation in this thread any longer. Certain people have very fucked-up ideas of what constitutes maturity and really need to have the record set straight.

Maturity is not, I repeat, NOT a measure of how dour one's demeanor is or how big a stick is shoved up their ass. I consider myself to be a very mature person. I'm contemplative, patient, and generally level-headed at all times. I'm the unflinching rock when things around me are falling to pieces. However, I also crack jokes every two seconds whenever possible, make spastic motions for no reason but that I find them funny, embarrass friends and family in public by doing things like teasing waitresses or goofing around in stores, etc. And guess what, I'm not alone in that. Lots of my fellow adults have a good time whenever possible.

When you look at the characters in X-2, and Yuna in particular, it's obvious that while she does have fun, she also knows when it's appropriate to tone it down and take something seriously. If she did something like turn around and fart at a monster, that would be immature, but nothing like that happens.

In other words, your entire argument about maturity is a bullshit sandwich on rye.

I "take nothing on board" because I don't agree with your assessment of things. I'm not just going to turn around and say "LOL! Okay!" because you'd like me to.

And it doesn't make any sense at all to you for Yuna to have grown and matured from her experience in X? There was no maturity growth. Her overdone personality made it seem as if she regressed and learned absolutely nothing from her experience in X. If they merely made her upbeat I most likely wouldn't have cared about her lack of maturity growth as much, but they overdid it. There is such a thing as too much. If they'd made her way, way, way too serious instead I would've had the same problem with her personality.


No, not really. Care to elaborate?


And I asked you what exactly you'd like me to produce other than a statement of events.

When you combine both X and X-2, Yuna matures very well. She goes from the pampered Summoner, to becoming her own woman. The story about Shuyin clearly helps show this. And about maturity itself? read the most above mine.

When you combine both X and X-2, Yuna matures very well. She goes from the pampered Summoner, to becoming her own woman. The story about Shuyin clearly helps show this. And about maturity itself? read the post above mine.

What are you talking about "The story about shuyin" that was some random thing to connect yuna to new yevon and the youth league. Also to give yuna another reason to sing. It's not being her own woman when she gets coerced into everything with a nice smile and a pretty please.

Maturity is not, I repeat, NOT a measure of how dour one's demeanor is or how big a stick is shoved up their ass. I consider myself to be a very mature person. I'm contemplative, patient, and generally level-headed at all times. I'm the unflinching rock when things around me are falling to pieces. However, I also crack jokes every two seconds whenever possible, make spastic motions for no reason but that I find them funny, embarrass friends and family in public by doing things like teasing waitresses or goofing around in stores, etc. And guess what, I'm not alone in that. Lots of my fellow adults have a good time whenever possible.
Yes, I understand she did not have to be dead serious in order to have matured. She could be upbeat and mature at the same time. However I saw very little mature behavior from Yuna, much less than I expected from someone who'd survived FFX. Instead there was overdone "upbeatedness" to the point that it was almost theatrical at times. That is my point. It seemed as if she did not learn from X and mature at all and her overdone personality did not help.

Like I said before there is such a thing as "too much". People can be "too upbeat" just as they can be "too serious". If Yuna's personality was at the other end of the scale and she was "too serious" I would have the same problem with her personality: it needed to be toned down just a bit.


When you look at the characters in X-2, and Yuna in particular, it's obvious that while she does have fun, she also knows when it's appropriate to tone it down and take something seriously. If she did something like turn around and fart at a monster, that would be immature, but nothing like that happens.
Which is why she took the whole "Awesome sphere" ordeal seriously, huh? That situation was poorly handled and Yuna did not show an ounce of maturity nor serious thought before or during it all. It was only after, once they'd acted like a group of 13 year old girls, that Yuna decided "Oops. Maybe that wasn't the best thing to do". Had she learned anything from X and shown maturity growth perhaps she would have thought about the consequences before diving headfirst into something, as most women her age do.



In other words, your entire argument about maturity is a bullshit sandwich on rye.
I'm sorry you feel that way.


When you combine both X and X-2, Yuna matures very well. She goes from the pampered Summoner, to becoming her own woman. The story about Shuyin clearly helps show this. And about maturity itself? read the most above mine.
And what is so "pampered" about being a summoner? Going off to your death? Watching your friends possibly sacrifice their lives for you? Being used by a Maester? Being labeled a traitor? Knowing the Maester who used you blew away a good chunk of the Ronso population? Getting kidnapped at every turn? Being so weak after communing with the Fayth that you can barely walk? Learning your religion is a big lie? Learning the hope you'd dedicated your life to was false? Having to defeat Sin "the hard way" so it stays dead? Having to destroy all the aeons you'd come to cherish? Watching the man you love fade away? Yeah, that's really being pampered. It's a wonder the girl didn't become a spoiled brat.

Yuna showed much more maturity and strength in X. In X-2 she may have become her "own woman", but it seemed like Square sacrificed any maturity growth in order for that to happen.

No, she did not have to be "super mature" nor serious, but I expected her to show at least a little more maturity than she did in X, show that she actually learned something from X, and for her personality to be toned down just a bit. That's all.

Yes, I understand she did not have to be dead serious in order to have matured. She could be upbeat and mature at the same time. However I saw very little mature behavior from Yuna, much less than I expected from someone who'd survived FFX. Instead there was overdone "upbeatedness" to the point that it was almost theatrical at times. That is my point. It seemed as if she did not learn from X and mature at all and her overdone personality did not help.

Like I said before there is such a thing as "too much". People can be "too upbeat" just as they can be "too serious". If Yuna's personality was at the other end of the scale and she was "too serious" I would have the same problem with her personality: it needed to be toned down just a bit.

Well done. You completely ignored my entire point and repeated the same nonsense I just spent my time refuting.


Which is why she took the whole "Awesome sphere" ordeal seriously, huh? That situation was poorly handled and Yuna did not show an ounce of maturity nor serious thought before or during it all. It was only after, once they'd acted like a group of 13 year old girls, that Yuna decided "Oops. Maybe that wasn't the best thing to do". Had she learned anything from X and shown maturity growth perhaps she would have thought about the consequences before diving headfirst into something, as most women her age do.

Maybe it slipped your notice completely, but there hadn't been any consequences for other actions of that sort earlier in the game. They never expected to find anything that important, after all. And on top of that, nothing else of the sort happened after that event, so that would be a case of the characters learning their lesson and getting brought back down to earth after riding an enormous high.

And what is so "pampered" about being a summoner? Going off to your death? Watching your friends possibly sacrifice their lives for you? Being used by a Maester? Being labeled a traitor? Knowing the Maester who used you blew away a good chunk of the Ronso population? Getting kidnapped at every turn? Being so weak after communing with the Fayth that you can barely walk? Learning your religion is a big lie? Learning the hope you'd dedicated your life to was false? Having to defeat Sin "the hard way" so it stays dead? Having to destroy all the aeons you'd come to cherish? Watching the man you love fade away? Yeah, that's really being pampered. It's a wonder the girl didn't become a spoiled brat.

Well, thanks for proving my point. I didn't feel like writing how she started out pampered and protected, to being a strong woman, so thanks.


Yuna showed much more maturity and strength in X. In X-2 she may have become her "own woman", but it seemed like Square sacrificed any maturity growth in order for that to happen. No, she did not have to be "super mature" nor serious, but I expected her to show at least a little more maturity than she did in X, show that she actually learned something from X, and for her personality to be toned down just a bit. That's all.

And explain how they sacrificeed maturity growth? Because from what I played, the story does a very good job of showing her mature and become her own woman, not the great messiah of Spira, which is the label that was put on her by the people. And there's no such thing as super mature.

Well done. You completely ignored my entire point and repeated the same nonsense I just spent my time refuting.
I read your post. Perhaps you'd like to write out the response you'd like me to give? I addressed everything you said and yet it seems like I still can't get my point across so go ahead. Tell me what you'd like me to say.


Maybe it slipped your notice completely, but there hadn't been any consequences for other actions of that sort earlier in the game. They never expected to find anything that important, after all. And on top of that, nothing else of the sort happened after that event, so that would be a case of the characters learning their lesson and getting brought back down to earth after riding an enormous high.
So because they got lucky before means that it's okay for them to coast along without thinking? No maturity, no forethought. That is the problem. As for them learning their lesson... I didn't see much of that either.


Well, thanks for proving my point. I didn't feel like writing how she started out pampered and protected, to being a strong woman, so thanks.
You're welcome, but my sarcasm did indeed prove that Yuna was not pampered nor protected. She wasn't even pampered and protected as a child. Well perhaps protected a bit by Kimahri, but not pampered.


And explain how they sacrificeed maturity growth? Because from what I played, the story does a very good job of showing her mature and become her own woman, not the great messiah of Spira, which is the label that was put on her by the people. And there's no such thing as super mature.
Where? Where did it show that Yuna matured from the point she was at in X? She acted like she'd learned absolutely nothing in X. She did not mature. She still let people use her, didn't think about most things before acting, and still somehow managed to remain naive about the world around her.

Deja vu, anyone?

Yes, I'm certainly feeling a lot of that. I wonder why...

You're welcome, but my sarcasm did indeed prove that Yuna was not pampered nor protected. She wasn't even pampered and protected as a child. Well perhaps protected a bit by Kimahri, but not pampered.

um, play attention to the story. She was both at the beginning.



Where? Where did it show that Yuna matured from the point she was at in X? She acted like she'd learned absolutely nothing in X. She did not mature. She still let people use her, didn't think about most things before acting, and still somehow managed to remain naive about the world around her.

So seeing a video of a guy who looks like Tidus in trouble, and wanting to investigate is not acting mature? Wanting to help someone you love is not mature? when did people use her? how did she remain naive about the world around her? explain yourself.

um, play attention to the story. She was both at the beginning.
Since when? A little naive perhaps, but not pampered. To pamper means to humor, coddle, baby, or spoil. I didn't see anyone doing those things to Yuna. And while physically protected at the beginning that did not last long nor was she ever mentally or emotionally protected.


So seeing a video of a guy who looks like Tidus in trouble, and wanting to investigate is not acting mature? Wanting to help someone you love is not mature? when did people use her? how did she remain naive about the world around her? explain yourself.
Going on a wild goose chase because of a very old sphere that contains a man who is obviously not Tidus is not overly mature, no. She also took off from Besaid without saying a word to anyone. Again, not mature.

Both New Yevon and the Youth League were eager to use Yuna's status and eventually, after they steal the Awesome sphere, you have to give into one faction and let them use Yuna's status. No one wanted to use her exactly as Seymour did, but there were a few missions (Tobli) where people used Yuna to get what they wanted. Paine even tried once to get Yuna out of the situation, but she gladly ignores Paine and runs right back.

Both Paine and Rikku notice that Yuna is still getting dragged into things by other people.

Leblanc: First things first. We are going to Bevelle. Full speed ahead!

Brother: You just wait, blondie! Yuna. What next?

Leblanc: She's off to save Spira, of course!

Yuna: Right!

Rikku: (sighs) Yunie, Yunie.

Paine: Always getting herself dragged into trouble.

And she remained naive because she didn't really notice she was being dragged into things until Paine and Rikku pointed it out. She then tried to justify it with weak excuses.

Well, we're going to Bevelle. There should be lots of spheres there! So
why don't we hunt for them on the side?

She also expected the Calm to last:

This isn't how it was supposed to be. The Eternal Calm... I can feel it crumbling, falling away from beneath our feet.

Which is an extremely naive notion.

Now it's your turn to "explain yourself". How did Yuna mature from the point she was in in X?

Since when? A little naive perhaps, but not pampered. To pamper means to humor, coddle, baby, or spoil. I didn't see anyone doing those things to Yuna. And while physically protected at the beginning that did not last long nor was she ever mentally or emotionally protected.

You obviously wasn't playing attention to the small talk that was going on during the game. The people in her village treated her like a princess. Which isn't hard to believe.



Going on a wild goose chase because of a very old sphere that contains a man who is obviously not Tidus is not overly mature, no. She also took off from Besaid without saying a word to anyone. Again, not mature.

She didn't know that was someone else in the beginning. Only through investigating did she find out if was someone else, and so the story begins.


Both New Yevon and the Youth League were eager to use Yuna's status and eventually, after they steal the Awesome sphere, you have to give into one faction and let them use Yuna's status. No one wanted to use her exactly as Seymour did, but there were a few missions (Tobli) where people used Yuna to get what they wanted. Paine even tried once to get Yuna out of the situation, but she gladly ignores Paine and runs right back.

They didn't use her. Yuna knew full well what was going on, and decided to become part of it. A person who willingly gives in, isn't being used.


Both Paine and Rikku notice that Yuna is still getting dragged into things by other people.

Leblanc: First things first. We are going to Bevelle. Full speed ahead!

Brother: You just wait, blondie! Yuna. What next?

Leblanc: She's off to save Spira, of course!

Yuna: Right!

Rikku: (sighs) Yunie, Yunie.

Paine: Always getting herself dragged into trouble.

And she remained naive because she didn't really notice she was being dragged into things until Paine and Rikku pointed it out. She then tried to justify it with weak excuses.

Well, we're going to Bevelle. There should be lots of spheres there! So
why don't we hunt for them on the side?

She also expected the Calm to last:

This isn't how it was supposed to be. The Eternal Calm... I can feel it crumbling, falling away from beneath our feet.

Which is an extremely naive notion.

Now it's your turn to "explain yourself". How did Yuna mature from the point she was in in X?

That proves nothing. Like I said, she knew what she was doing. She wanted to get involved, she wasn't naively being lead into anything. just because Paine and Rikku didn't feel the same way she did, doesn't mean Yuna was acting immature. Try again.

You obviously wasn't playing attention to the small talk that was going on during the game. The people in her village treated her like a princess. Which isn't hard to believe.

They were grateful to her because of the sacrifice she was making. How does that equal = Yuna being spoiled, babied, coddled, and humored?



She didn't know that was someone else in the beginning. Only through investigating did she find out if was someone else, and so the story begins.
Then that would make her a dipstick too as anyone can see that it's clearly not Tidus. She knew full well it wasn't Tidus, but refused to accept it until much later.


They didn't use her. Yuna knew full well what was going on, and decided to become part of it. A person who willingly gives in, isn't being used.
She was forced to give in because of her actions during the Awesome sphere incident. It's not the same as willingly giving in. She had no choice.


That proves nothing. Like I said, she knew what she was doing. She wanted to get involved, she wasn't naively being lead into anything. just because Paine and Rikku didn't feel the same way she did, doesn't mean Yuna was acting immature. Try again.
If she knew fully what she was doing then she wouldn't have needed to make weak excuses. She would have said "We're doing this and that's that!". She's dragged into things, eventually realizes that she was dragged into something, feels guilty for yet again being dragged into something, and makes excuses.

And I'm still waiting for you to "explain yourself".

This is pretty funny I'm surprised nobody pulled the "you're just a stupid fanboy so you're biased and your opinion can't be trusted." and for everyone's comparing purposes

For whatever its worth..:ff-x2 was my first ff game,and the first game I was ever embarrased to play in my life!(the game wasn't bad...)

The battle system was excellent though.

They were grateful to her because of the sacrifice she was making. How does that equal = Yuna being spoiled, babied, coddled, and humored?

Because being grateful to her, they treated her like a princess. Now I know you're in denial. It's common sense. Do you know what being treated like a princess means?




Then that would make her a dipstick too as anyone can see that it's clearly not Tidus. She knew full well it wasn't Tidus, but refused to accept it until much later.

Not to be rude, but you're the dipstick if you can't see that her not knowing was the plot point. Rather you or I seeing otherwise doesn't matter. It was the plot.



She was forced to give in because of her actions during the Awesome sphere incident. It's not the same as willingly giving in. She had no choice.

The point is, she choose the path she has taken. Nobody, deceived or lied to her.



If she knew fully what she was doing then she wouldn't have needed to make weak excuses. She would have said "We're doing this and that's that!". She's dragged into things, eventually realizes that she was dragged into something, feels guilty for yet again being dragged into something, and makes excuses.

That's not Yuna's personality. You read too much into stuff. And the excuse was to make Paine and Rikku feel better, not to excuse why she wanted to get involved. Her mind was already made up.


And I'm still waiting for you to "explain yourself".

I don't need to explain myself, you're the one with the maturity argument. Anyway, like the other smart posters, I'm finished. All you're really doing is nip picking pointless examples to support your argument. You've posted no strong proof to show that she was acting immature.

Because being grateful to her, they treated her like a princess. Now I know you're in denial. It's common sense. Do you know what being treated like a princess means?

All I saw were people thanking her for her sacrifice and giving her things she needed on her journey. How is that "treating her like a princess"?

As a summoner Yuna when through physical, mental, and emotional pain almost every day. How is that pampered, protected, and being treated like a princess?

If anything the actual praise she received did nothing but remind her that she would soon be dead.


Not to be rude, but you're the dipstick if you can't see that her not knowing was the plot point. Rather you or I seeing otherwise doesn't matter. It was the plot.
So you think Yuna is an idiot then? Because only an idiot would not know that wasn't Tidus. Her knowing it wasn't Tidus, but being in denial about it makes much more sense. It also makes her 'human' instead of an idiot.


The point is, she choose the path she has taken. Nobody, deceived or lied to her.
You don't have to be deceived or lied to in order to be used.


That's not Yuna's personality. You read too much into stuff. And the excuse was to make Paine and Rikku feel better, not to excuse why she wanted to get involved. Her mind was already made up.
You're kidding me, right? She let Seymour use her to a certain extent in X! It's perfectly within the bounds of Yuna's personality and it shows that she never really learned anything.


I don't need to explain myself, you're the one with the maturity argument. Anyway, like the other smart posters, I'm finished. All you're really doing is nip picking pointless examples to support your argument. You've posted no strong proof to show that she was acting immature.
So you have the right to demand that others explain themselves and yet they have no right to demand the same of you? That makes a world of sense. Since you continue to insist that Yuna matured you too are in the "maturity argument".

I think you're the only one left posting Erebus.

As long as someone replies I will answer. I was under the impression that is how forums work.

As long as someone replies I will answer. I was under the impression that is how forums work.

There's also beating a dead horse.

Not only have you beat the dead horse, you've beaten its family, friends and shit on them all from a great height.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

lol this thread needs to be closed already

i can't believe lulu married wakka what a fuc>king nut.

i h8 interaccial relationships.

wakka is mexican amirite?

:/

-_- wow

a111
Banned

about time like.

I personally didn't like FFX-2 as an overall game because I felt the game's story was a bit of a non-event until the final 2 chapters which felt slightly tacked on.

The gameplay was the best of an FF game up to that point, the freedom was nice and the amount of extras was legendary. The battle system in particular was really nice, very fluid, swish and did as much as can possibly be done (in my opinion) to create dynamic within a heavily regimented system such as ATB.

The dressphere system owned too...of course it borrowed from a system that was already used excellently but the ability to change "jobs" mid-battle added alot of tactical incentive.

However, for me, the problem with the game was more the way in which it unveiled its story. When I first played the game through I felt it was monumentally short and there was barely any story at all...it was only after following a 100% completion guide I actually found quite a few really cool scenes that otherwise I wouldn't have seen.

This, for me, was the biggest problem with the game.

FFX was extremely linear but it felt FFX-2 went too far in the opposite direction to compensate. For me, cutscenes which relate to the DIRECT PLOT of the game should not be missable. An example? The scene underneath Bevelle between Nooj, Baralai and Gippal where they point their guns at one another.

In my opinion that is one of the best scenes in the game and yet it is so easily missed. Heck, you're even TOLD by the game to proceed to the next "story point" which is NOT Under Bevelle and once you do - zing, that's the scene gone. Optional content being spliced over the game is fine but not scenes so directly intertwined with the core plot.

This is my biggest complaint about the game - the fact that it doesn't show the best of itself up front.

Oh, and the behaviour of the 3 girls I didn't like. I didn't mind a brighter and more cheerful Spira but the extremity of it personified by the cheerleader-like behaviour of YRP (or perhaps should I say YR) just made me want to impale them on spears while eating my dinner.

a111
Banned

about time like.

I hope it was for saying 'h8.'

I more or less agree with Aqueous - good post.

I personally didn't like FFX-2 as an overall game because I felt the game's story was a bit of a non-event until the final 2 chapters which felt slightly tacked on.

The gameplay was the best of an FF game up to that point, the freedom was nice and the amount of extras was legendary. The battle system in particular was really nice, very fluid, swish and did as much as can possibly be done (in my opinion) to create dynamic within a heavily regimented system such as ATB.

The dressphere system owned too...of course it borrowed from a system that was already used excellently but the ability to change "jobs" mid-battle added alot of tactical incentive.

However, for me, the problem with the game was more the way in which it unveiled its story. When I first played the game through I felt it was monumentally short and there was barely any story at all...it was only after following a 100% completion guide I actually found quite a few really cool scenes that otherwise I wouldn't have seen.

This, for me, was the biggest problem with the game.

FFX was extremely linear but it felt FFX-2 went too far in the opposite direction to compensate. For me, cutscenes which relate to the DIRECT PLOT of the game should not be missable. An example? The scene underneath Bevelle between Nooj, Baralai and Gippal where they point their guns at one another.

In my opinion that is one of the best scenes in the game and yet it is so easily missed. Heck, you're even TOLD by the game to proceed to the next "story point" which is NOT Under Bevelle and once you do - zing, that's the scene gone. Optional content being spliced over the game is fine but not scenes so directly intertwined with the core plot.

This is my biggest complaint about the game - the fact that it doesn't show the best of itself up front.

Oh, and the behaviour of the 3 girls I didn't like. I didn't mind a brighter and more cheerful Spira but the extremity of it personified by the cheerleader-like behaviour of YRP (or perhaps should I say YR) just made me want to impale them on spears while eating my dinner.

Wait, from the looks of this it seems you like the game, yet you dont?

Sure, some of the better scenes are tucked away, but its shown all through that the game rewards you for being thorough.

And the actual behaviour of the girls has been done to death and I see no need to go over it again.

It's hard for me to describe. I like the contents of the game but not the way in which they are structured. Kind of like reading a novel with a great story but erratic pacing and poor language (not a direct comparison to FFX-2's language, just an analogy).

As for the girls, it's no problem, I simply have a really strong disliking for any behaviour that I feel resembles bimbo-ish (even a word?) - just a personal distaste.

Forgot to mention Shinra as a positive, thought he was a great character ^^.

It's one thing to reward a gamer for being thorough. It's another to hide seriously important plot-related elements in a place that someone would only get to almost by accident. Another example of this is FFVII with the Shinra Mansion Disc 3 scene. That sort of thing is maddeningly furstrating and should be banned from gaming.

The Den of Woe section, for example, is fair enough. You are introduced to the Den pretty early on and you know exactly what you need to do to access the good stuff, even if some Crimson Spheres are hard to get. I have no problem with that. But I do agree with Aqueous that some parts of the game were too obscurely hidden, and many plot points are tied up with quests that actually require a large amount of power-levelling, such as Via Infinito.

It's one thing to reward a gamer for being thorough. It's another to hide seriously important plot-related elements in a place that someone would only get to almost by accident.

Example? I'm not saying they didn't hide a lot of stuff in places no logical person would look. But "seriously important plot-related elements"? I initially beat the game w/o using a guide, and I don't remember any important plot elements left out. Maybe if you remind me, I'd remember, though.

Personally, I liked that important plot elements were left for you to discover. It made my 100% play through worth it, and I concluded that X-2 had a decent story overall. When I first played the game, I just did the main missions and after 25 hours of play, came away disappointed.

It's one thing to reward a gamer for being thorough. It's another to hide seriously important plot-related elements in a place that someone would only get to almost by accident. Another example of this is FFVII with the Shinra Mansion Disc 3 scene. That sort of thing is maddeningly furstrating and should be banned from gaming.

The Den of Woe section, for example, is fair enough. You are introduced to the Den pretty early on and you know exactly what you need to do to access the good stuff, even if some Crimson Spheres are hard to get. I have no problem with that. But I do agree with Aqueous that some parts of the game were too obscurely hidden, and many plot points are tied up with quests that actually require a large amount of power-levelling, such as Via Infinito.

The Shinra Mansion scene you speak of is pretty well implemented. All you need to do to see the special cut-scene is to go there no matter what you did or not beforehand.

That's clearly not the same thing as with FF X-2 where you have to do some particular random things in order to trigger the events or miss them entirely for the rest of the game if you didn't fulfill these said requirements.

The example you gave, Ceidwad, was seriously not a good one.

Like who would have guessed that you need to press x three times to have a chance at the good ending. Everything was so random.

The Shinra Mansion scene you speak of is pretty well implemented. All you need to do to see the special cut-scene is to go there no matter what you did or not beforehand.

That's clearly not the same thing as with FF X-2 where you have to do some particular random things in order to trigger the events or miss them entirely for the rest of the game if you didn't fulfill these said requirements.

The example you gave, Ceidwad, was seriously not a good one.

There's no reason why you would go to the Shinra Mansion on Disc 3, especially not going as deep into it as you need to to see the scene. You might go there to beat Lost Number and get Vincent if you hadn't done so before, but you would still need to go right to the back to see the scene.

It is definitely badly implemented.

YAWN, yep, of course, hidden content should be thrown at you with big ARROWS to point you in the obvious direction.
Did you manage to find the Knights of the Round summon? I'm wondering because in the course of the game, nothing tells you to go visit this lost island after going through the process of breeding a gold chocobo.

You must complain all the time when you play a Donkey Kong Country game in which you have to do some digging to find hidden stuff, of which nothing or not much is pointing at.

The point of his argument is that a direct plot related scene shouldn't BE "hidden content" - jesus christ....

KotR is called "Extra Content" for a reason - it has no direct significance to the story and is only implimented as a gameplay gimmick - it's an item. In other words, the game is still "complete", storywise, even if you don't get KotR. The same goes for Ultima Weapon, Master Summon, Master Magic etc. they're things which affect your character's in-game abilities and stats not the focus of the plot. If you miss that scene in the Shinra Mansion then you haven't witnessed the complete plot encompassed in FFVII. How the hell does an item, a gameplay gimmick at that, compare to a plot-related cutscene?

Your example is like saying Omega Weapon from FFVIII is a direct part of the plot. Or it's like me saying that the Chocograph Hunt Items in FFIX being hidden is the same as hiding the entire plot development located in Terra. They're NOT the same.

Gameplay orientated items don't tell any part of the direct plot and so your attempt at a parallel fails and your continued insistance in arguing with almost anything presented in front of you bores me somewhat aswell. If you actually had come up with a logical comparison (you know, like an example of a hidden story cutscene in another game rather than an item compared with a cutscene) then I wouldn't believe you were simply arguing for the sake of arguing but the malformed excuse for a parallel just leads me to believe this is the case.

I would simply just ignore this post but it seems a shame to allow this stain on well-thought arguments like Ceidwad's. And I'm sorry if this seems overly harsh but considering the examples in your post and how they totally misfire it just makes the whole post seem pointless and nothing more than potential flamebait.

The point of his argument is that a direct plot related scene shouldn't BE "hidden content" - jesus christ....

I disagree. Final Fantasy X-2's game interface is setup for you to play and explore the worlds fully. The game never intentionally keeps things away from you. You can either choose to do the Main Missions, or you can visit different worlds and discover everything that happens their. Plus the press X scene with Yuna, isn't that hard to figure out if you play it enough times, and even it if was hard for some people to figure out, a lot of games besides X-2 has hidden content you have to discover to unlock the best endings, or the best weapons etc. To pick on X-2 for this is flawed and a weak argument for why people claim the game sucks.

I disagree. Final Fantasy X-2's game interface is setup for you to play and explore the worlds fully. The game never intentionally keeps things away from you. You can either choose to do the Main Missions, or you can visit different worlds and discover everything that happens their. Plus the press X scene with Yuna, isn't that hard to figure out if you play it enough times, and even it if was hard for some people to figure out, a lot of games besides X-2 has hidden content you have to discover to unlock the best endings, or the best weapons etc. To pick on X-2 for this is flawed and a weak argument for why people claim the game sucks.

While I can agree with your notion that X-2 is setup to explore worlds fully, there's an importance in where you place this need for exploration and throwing the player a bone. For example, placing it just before an end-of-chapter plot revelation, without any indication the content is even available, is not the best place because the vast majority of gamers will be interested in following the plot and will do so since there is nothing indicating to the contrary (Under Bevelle scene).

This I would argue IS keeping things away from the player because virtually noone would go to Bevelle at the time the scene unfolds unless they have a guide. There's no indication of anything going on in the description of the location on the flight map (you know, Buddy's description thingy) so unless you have a guide, which probably means they've raked in more money, 99% of the time you won't go there. I personally missed it and when I played through I got 86% completion so I wasn't playing the game linearly either.

You also mentioned the scene with Yuna and the whistling. You say that if you've played it enough times you'll probably figure it out. This is assuming a person plays the game multiple times after the arguably poor experience they had the first time. I know personally I had no desire to play the game through again whatsoever nor should it be required of me. Also, I tend to avoid spamming X in cutscenes in case it skips dialogue.

If you think it's a poor reason to think the game sucks then that's up to you, that's your freedom, no problem, but I don't honestly see how it's a poor reason. If a game doesn't show the best of itself upfront then it's not a very well designed game. Why? Because naturally the vast majority of people are not going to find out the best parts of the game. This means the vast majority's opinion of the game is going to be below what it deserves and it also means that those customers aren't going to have experienced the best of the game that they could. You could even argue that this cheats them out of their money but I won't go down that path. Sometimes something small and solitary can make all the difference.

Hiding content is fine, it's been in every FF, but not necessarily scenes which are directly interwoven with the plot and not often without any indication whatsoever. If there had been suggestions for discovering cutscenes in the game, fine, but there was nothing. It's also arguable but whether you'd even WANT to indulge in the hidden content after the horrorshow experience with the Luca quest in Chapter 1 (revisiting when Yuna was in the Moogle suit) is questionable.

When there is so much hidden content without any kind of leads I honestly start to believe the game is guide purchasing fodder. And the sheer fact I enjoyed X-2 far more when I had a 100% completion guide loaded up on my PC speaks volumes to me. I simply can't understand why they hid so much of the game's better content. Why would you want to hide the best parts of your "work"?

Huzzah!

I had almost started to believe I was alone in thinking the practice of hiding content in games to force players to buy guides was bullshit of the vilest sort.

Of course, even though X-2 was one of the worst offenders, the series had been getting progressively worse about it for years. That's one of the main reasons I've come to regard the franchise as being shit.

Huzzah? Huzzah?!

Since when the fuck do YOU say huzzah?

Since whenever I first said it, which appears to have not occurred on this forum, therefore dashing my hopes of linking to such a post and making a sarcastic remark.

...

Huzzah!

Huzzah!

I had almost started to believe I was alone in thinking the practice of hiding content in games to force players to buy guides was bullshit of the vilest sort.

Of course, even though X-2 was one of the worst offenders, the series had been getting progressively worse about it for years. That's one of the main reasons I've come to regard the franchise as being shit.

You know as well as I do that its all about the monies.

Pretty much every major gaming franchise has strategy guides now. I am certain that it is outlined prior to development that a game must have hidden content thrown in just to increase the chances that people will need and indeed pay an inflated price for a strategy guide.

And then of course there's our beloved Transformers,with Hasbro feeling the need to repaint and redeco every single character 47 times.

But anyway, it is unfair for any of you to criticize the game for hidden content as its the tip of a pretty large and greedy iceberg called capitalism that is infecting pretty much every avenue of the consumer world.

Oh, and Huzzah!

While I can agree with your notion that X-2 is setup to explore worlds fully, there's an importance in where you place this need for exploration and throwing the player a bone. For example, placing it just before an end-of-chapter plot revelation, without any indication the content is even available, is not the best place because the vast majority of gamers will be interested in following the plot and will do so since there is nothing indicating to the contrary (Under Bevelle scene).

This I would argue IS keeping things away from the player because virtually noone would go to Bevelle at the time the scene unfolds unless they have a guide. There's no indication of anything going on in the description of the location on the flight map (you know, Buddy's description thingy) so unless you have a guide, which probably means they've raked in more money, 99% of the time you won't go there. I personally missed it and when I played through I got 86% completion so I wasn't playing the game linearly either.


You also mentioned the scene with Yuna and the whistling. You say that if you've played it enough times you'll probably figure it out. This is assuming a person plays the game multiple times after the arguably poor experience they had the first time. I know personally I had no desire to play the game through again whatsoever nor should it be required of me. Also, I tend to avoid spamming X in cutscenes in case it skips dialogue.

If you think it's a poor reason to think the game sucks then that's up to you, that's your freedom, no problem, but I don't honestly see how it's a poor reason. If a game doesn't show the best of itself upfront then it's not a very well designed game. Why? Because naturally the vast majority of people are not going to find out the best parts of the game. This means the vast majority's opinion of the game is going to be below what it deserves and it also means that those customers aren't going to have experienced the best of the game that they could. You could even argue that this cheats them out of their money but I won't go down that path. Sometimes something small and solitary can make all the difference.

Hiding content is fine, it's been in every FF, but not necessarily scenes which are directly interwoven with the plot and not often without any indication whatsoever. If there had been suggestions for discovering cutscenes in the game, fine, but there was nothing. It's also arguable but whether you'd even WANT to indulge in the hidden content after the horrorshow experience with the Luca quest in Chapter 1 (revisiting when Yuna was in the Moogle suit) is questionable.

When there is so much hidden content without any kind of leads I honestly start to believe the game is guide purchasing fodder. And the sheer fact I enjoyed X-2 far more when I had a 100% completion guide loaded up on my PC speaks volumes to me. I simply can't understand why they hid so much of the game's better content. Why would you want to hide the best parts of your "work"?

Judging by this reply you don't like Non-linear RPG's because that's what X-2 is. You and I guess many others like Linear RPG's that hold your hand and guild you through the story, instead of discovering it yourself. X-2 isn't even a true nonlinear RPG in a sense because at least the game gives you main missions to play and chapters that hint you should revisit certain places. A true Non-linear RPG gives you nothing at all. You're left to discover the plot yourself. That's why many people didn't like Saga Frontier. Non-linear is nothing new, they're quite popular in Japan. So it's simply the style of RPG that you seem to have a problem with, or at least that's how I'm understanding it.

Judging by this reply you don't like Non-linear RPG's because that's what X-2 is. You and I guess many others like Linear RPG's that hold your hand and guild you through the story, instead of discovering it yourself. X-2 isn't even a true nonlinear RPG in a sense because at least the game gives you main missions to play and chapters that hint you should revisit certain places. A true Non-linear RPG gives you nothing at all. You're left to discover the plot yourself. That's why many people didn't like Saga Frontier. Non-linear is nothing new, they're quite popular in Japan. So it's simply the style of RPG that you seem to have a problem with, or at least that's how I'm understanding it.

It's true I'm not keen on non-linear RPGs if they have a core plot but it also depends on the situation. An RPG that HAS a core linear plot but displays it in non-linear no-hint locations for me is destined to be a poor setup. It's either non-linear or linear, few games pull off the mix of the two IMO.

The reason why is because of false security. It gives off a feeling that if you follow the game linearly you'll experience the plot as you want/need to and that exploration is for gameplay additions. In a true non-linear RPG you know that you've got to explore for every scrap of story development and so you do.

If I'm honest I have other things I dislike about X-2 aswell which makes it a special example of my dislike over RPG styles of its kind but I need not go into those.

Besides, it's still a guide purchase marketting technique IMO, that's probably what angers me the most.

The point of his argument is that a direct plot related scene shouldn't BE "hidden content" - jesus christ....

KotR is called "Extra Content" for a reason - it has no direct significance to the story and is only implimented as a gameplay gimmick - it's an item. In other words, the game is still "complete", storywise, even if you don't get KotR. The same goes for Ultima Weapon, Master Summon, Master Magic etc. they're things which affect your character's in-game abilities and stats not the focus of the plot. If you miss that scene in the Shinra Mansion then you haven't witnessed the complete plot encompassed in FFVII. How the hell does an item, a gameplay gimmick at that, compare to a plot-related cutscene?

Your example is like saying Omega Weapon from FFVIII is a direct part of the plot. Or it's like me saying that the Chocograph Hunt Items in FFIX being hidden is the same as hiding the entire plot development located in Terra. They're NOT the same.

Gameplay orientated items don't tell any part of the direct plot and so your attempt at a parallel fails and your continued insistance in arguing with almost anything presented in front of you bores me somewhat aswell. If you actually had come up with a logical comparison (you know, like an example of a hidden story cutscene in another game rather than an item compared with a cutscene) then I wouldn't believe you were simply arguing for the sake of arguing but the malformed excuse for a parallel just leads me to believe this is the case.

I would simply just ignore this post but it seems a shame to allow this stain on well-thought arguments like Ceidwad's. And I'm sorry if this seems overly harsh but considering the examples in your post and how they totally misfire it just makes the whole post seem pointless and nothing more than potential flamebait.

The core of the plot is still quite intact even without that cut-scene. Most of what is shown is already implied during the conversations and other plot parts. Even if you don't see Zack being shot in the wasteland near Midgar, you already know by then that he was killed by Shinra, and that Cloud managed to survive.

Ceidwad's argument is just a "it's badly implemented" with not much backing off or any fair comparison with other games. Vincent if still a great part of FF VII, yet he is hidden in the same way as this cut-scene is. Yet I don't anyone complaining about that. The cut-scene in question isn't badly implemented, you all managed to see it. And I did so too without the use of any guide to take my hand (unlike, I would guess, many of you who complain and nitpick about every bits of challenges in games you cannot overcome without the use of an outside source. The result of a spoiled-rotten generation that is used to have everything when they want it...).

The core of the plot is still quite intact even without that cut-scene. Most of what is shown is already implied during the conversations and other plot parts. Even if you don't see Zack being shot in the wasteland near Midgar, you already know by then that he was killed by Shinra, and that Cloud managed to survive.

Ceidwad's argument is just a "it's badly implemented" with not much backing off or any fair comparison with other games. Vincent if still a great part of FF VII, yet he is hidden in the same way as this cut-scene is. Yet I don't anyone complaining about that. The cut-scene in question isn't badly implemented, you all managed to see it. And I did so too without the use of any guide to take my hand (unlike, I would guess, many of you who complain and nitpick about every bits of challenges in games you cannot overcome without the use of an outside source. The result of a spoiled-rotten generation that is used to have everything when they want it...).

Ok, cool, if you'd posted this originally I would've agreed. I disagreed because of the lack of comparison compatiblity and because of the self-important tone in the original post.

I don't know whether that tone is intentional or whether it's partly because you said English isn't your mother tongue. I kind of hope the latter.

YAWN, yep, of course, hidden content should be thrown at you with big ARROWS to point you in the obvious direction.
Did you manage to find the Knights of the Round summon? I'm wondering because in the course of the game, nothing tells you to go visit this lost island after going through the process of breeding a gold chocobo.

You must complain all the time when you play a Donkey Kong Country game in which you have to do some digging to find hidden stuff, of which nothing or not much is pointing at.

Ceidwad's argument is just a "it's badly implemented" with not much backing off or any fair comparison with other games. Vincent if still a great part of FF VII, yet he is hidden in the same way as this cut-scene is. Yet I don't anyone complaining about that. The cut-scene in question isn't badly implemented, you all managed to see it. And I did so too without the use of any guide to take my hand (unlike, I would guess, many of you who complain and nitpick about every bits of challenges in games you cannot overcome without the use of an outside source. The result of a spoiled-rotten generation that is used to have everything when they want it...).

The core of the plot is still quite intact even without that cut-scene. Most of what is shown is already implied during the conversations and other plot parts. Even if you don't see Zack being shot in the wasteland near Midgar, you already know by then that he was killed by Shinra, and that Cloud managed to survive.

Missed this before.

Knights of the Round is obviously different in that it has nothing to do with the plot, but in any case, the chocobo sidequest, which essentially leads you to the materia, is spelled out for you by Chocobo Sage.

There is nothing that indicates there is anything to be gained from going to the Mansion on Disc 3, whereas any idiot could see that there was a cave that was previously inaccessible with the Highwind just flying around, and would naturally be curious once they acquired the gold chocobo, i.e. the means to get there.

I do not complain about Vincent because the game flowed fairly smoothly (in relative terms of course) without acquiring him as a character. His part of the plot is largely inconsequential to the wider events and Cloud's backstory, albeit an interesting distraction from them.

I managed to find the scene without a guide, and I'm sure many others did too, but that's no reason not to criticise it, because it fills in some important gaps in the plot and is very eminently missable, without even a hint of a warning about its existence.

The core of the plot is of course intact, but without that scene, the game would have had more problems than it does as it is. I.e., how did the two escape from Shinra? What were the full details of Cloud's relationship with Zack? Hence, it is important, and that it can be easily missed can only be a bad thing.

I'll contrast as I have before with the Den of Woe in FFX-2. Although this part of the game fills in much of past events and adds to Paine's plot, it is clearly accessible early in the game when you do a normal storyline mission in Mushroom Rock. Only the most braindead of gamers would fail to see the pathway down into the Ravine as they made their way through MR.

Prak, most of us have complained about the missions that force you to get a guide to get the best results. Trust me, you have never been alone on that.

I HATED it.

It was a complete mockery of FF X. A game with a complex characters and story.

FFX was beautiful aesthetically and in it's story telling.

Yuna, the first female character I actually liked was reduced from strong willed savior of the people to ' Laura ( Croft) Spice" and Rikku, whom I could actually tolerate in X was made..just so much more irritating.

The battle system, while fun, was just an excuse show off different costumes.

Really, the entire game itself was just another cheap and tawdry charlies angels spin off.

Sad too, because under of all the fan service and as someone else said 'girl power' was the potential for a nice story.

I didn't like it. The game felt rushed and tacked on to the end of FFX. The opening pop song was really cheesy and the combat was very different to X. Some of the mini-games were even more tedious than the ones in X. Yuna seemed to be out of character and Rikku was my least favourite of the cast from X. Paine completes the silly 'girl power' theme of the game.

Simple. People didn't like it because it was a far cry from what Squeenix had already done with the Final Fantasy games.
- Non Linear gameplay that let you do as much or as little as possible? Unheard of.
- Having a set party that you cannot change at all through the game? Just not done.
- Having the job system come back (let's face it, that's all it was) new and improved? Unthinkable!

Ok, the story could have been stronger, but we're talking about Yuna here. Her life revolves around Tidus and saving people who are too powerless to do anything themselves.

Me personally? I loved it. Why? Because Squeenix weren't afraid to try something different, something new. They don't want to be stuck doing the same things all the time. They'll get bored.

Simple. People didn't like it because it was a far cry from what Squeenix had already done with the Final Fantasy games.
- Non Linear gameplay that let you do as much or as little as possible? Unheard of.
- Having a set party that you cannot change at all through the game? Just not done.
- Having the job system come back (let's face it, that's all it was) new and improved? Unthinkable!

Ok, the story could have been stronger, but we're talking about Yuna here. Her life revolves around Tidus and saving people who are too powerless to do anything themselves.

Me personally? I loved it. Why? Because Squeenix weren't afraid to try something different, something new. They don't want to be stuck doing the same things all the time. They'll get bored.

LMAO! Two post and this guy already wins this thread.

LMAO! Two post and this guy already wins this thread.

I'm also with SwirlingDark. And I might add three other reasons I enjoyed FFX-2:

1- The story about Shuyin and Lenne. C'mon, a tragic love story, what's the last time we saw a good tragic love story in FF? Maybe in FFVI? 1000 Words concert was the first time I ever cried playing video-games.
2- It was good to see the world changing after you saved it. You know, usually when you finish a game, everything is "A-Okay!", everybody is happy, the world is now in peace and full of hope, and every one is going to live happily ever after! In Spira it wasn't the case: Ronso attacking the guados (blame it on Seymour!), Macalania Woods is dying, Zanarkand became a stupid tourist spot, people are trying to adapt the new times without the religion's rule and the new factions are fighting each other! What kind of peace is that? It's something never seen before in a FF game.
3- Multiple endings! That's the first time in a FF game, and fits very well the story.

However, I have also two things I didn't liked very much:
1- Girl power. They were one step away from a pajama party.
2- Too much J-Pop. J-Pop is good, but they overdid it :/

C'mon, a tragic love story, what's the last time we saw a good tragic love story in FF? Maybe in FFVI?


Try Final Fantasy X.

Try Final Fantasy X.

lol pwned.

LMAO! Two post and this guy already wins this thread.
Who said I was a guy? *points at her rather large chest and lack of male genitalia*

Who said I was a guy? *points at her rather large chest and lack of male genitalia*

Erm.....Lulu? Is that you?

Erm.....Lulu? Is that you?

Damn. I've been rumbled. ;)

Try Final Fantasy X.

Yeah, I did played FFX. Actualy I've beaten the game 2 times before playing FFX-2: one regular USA version and the other was the International... I was going for the 3rd round when started playing FFX-2.

FFX I thought they just tried to hard to be natural: "Take me as a sacrifice!" "No, take me!" "I want you to live!" "I'll live with you!" "Oh plz don't die" "I won't let you die!" blahblahblah.
In FFX-2 both Lenne and Shuyin wanted to live, together. But both wanted to protect their significant one. Shuyin took the shoot and Lenne died trying to reach him out. Heck, he wanted to destroy the world for her!

And no, I don't have anything against Tidus or Yuna. In fact I really like Tidus, he was one of the few video-game characters which actually got more mature during the story (and not some superficial crap like most games). But their love story still looks like a bit... Forced, unnatural.

FFX-2 was, in my own personal opinion, a great game. It's not the best final fantasy game ever made but it has a uniqueness to it that no other game can match.
1. It has the best atb system of any FF.
2. The dresspheres were a great way to combine the equip system in ff7 with the job system in the old ff games.
3. The story can be short and sweet or very long and grueling depending on how you play it. It even gives you a percentage on how much you've completed.
4. It has the TOUGHEST side boss ever!. (Trema)
5. And finally it offers a save game plus option! How many times have you spent countless hours on an ff game when you realize you've missed out on the best item in the game. Well now you can go back and play it again.

Who said I was a guy? *points at her rather large chest and lack of male genitalia*

Pix or it didn't happen.

i actually liked final fantasy X-2, nothin to do with the game system but the storyline was pretty emoitonal. the song (and i think you know what song) will probably last in my world for centuries.;)

Well....all I could say about the game was that they were HOT!!!!
But thats pretty much it though.