Square-Enix has been very concentrated on the FFVII Compilation more than anything else-- Advent Children, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, and Last Order. FFVII is still one of my favorite videogames, but I think Square-Enix is going a little overboard with all this bloated FFVII fluff: an OVA, a mobile phone game, a shooter, a CG anime... in which they're all mediocre at best. The last thing I want is for FFVII to become another Star Wars or Disney franchise: series that have been milked up so much by the company that their original aura just dried up. I wish Square-Enix never began these FFVII sellout projects; it makes them look like some self-indulgent conglomerate.

Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.

Too bad FFVII never had any 'original aura' to begin with.

It seems like no one wants to let a good thing go. They figure "We made a hit with the ORIGINAL FFVII, why not make 50 other pointless games that aren't necessarily sequals with the same storyline as FFVII (save FFVII:AC, which by the way was LONG overdue). I say, when you find something good, you stick with it. Let the spin-offs come. And you want to know WHY there aren't any sequels to Vagrant Story and Starcraft. Their stories were too linear and once you played through, you were done and had enough. But who could get enough of FFVII? Not me.

Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.

Final Fantasy VII should never have been made. The continued whoring out of the Final Fantasy name just wastes away the aura created by the legend of the Warriors of Light.

Too bad FFVII never had any 'original aura' to begin with.

smokey + contentious ffvii remark lol i get it



also, i think it's pretty obvious that s-e is milking it, but sadly they'll carry on until it stops making them money.

mmm... verry usefull info thanks

i think they're milking it because all the attention is being given to the Enix titles and all the Square titles can do is play dress-up in the corner where only a select few would drool over them
but after browsing these forums and AnimePaper's...i saw a big difference....when we had a similar discussion, it ended with flames brought down on me and a few others who dissented with the consensus that "ff7 is t3h best game evar!!!" over here, there's a good balance between those who think so and those who don't think it's the end-all-be-all of rpgs and those who would buy something because the words "Final Fantasy 7" are on it
all in all, i like how more members are willing to voice their opinions and provide more evidence to back their claims

How many times has this thread been made...

3.

Well ff7 is their most popular game and has the biggest fanbase. So if they are going to milk any game it will be that.
It's a shame they don't concentrate on making new games though.

Do we need all these handheld remakes?

Square-Enix is milking FFVII way too much
Thank you Captain Obvious.

yeah i agree they do, but then i wouldnt mind them remaking some FF's with decent graphics...

yeah i agree they do, but then i wouldnt mind them remaking some FF's with decent graphics...
Then that would change, and ruin, the experience of several Final Fantasy titles. If they remade FFIV or FFVI with 3-D graphics, I wouldn't be too happy about it.

Then that would change, and ruin, the experience of several Final Fantasy titles. If they remade FFIV or FFVI with 3-D graphics, I wouldn't be too happy about it.

I would, so long as zero changes were made to the actual story.

You know, a hentai image of Tifa being hooked to a milking machine could not have been more appropriate for this topic. XD

(That's your cue Tact!)

Rofl.

It would have made more sense to simply do a remake. The game is begging for one. Instead, Square developed all this crappy stuff which effectively turned it into a crappy franchise.

Remake FFVII...lol

Considering how badely they're screwing up the fluff how bad to you think they'll do remaking the original game?

If they are remaking FFVII for the PS3...I'll be scared to play it.

Final Fantasy VII should never have been made.

I'll tell you why I actualy agree with you. Although I loved this game, I feel the story, characters, style, etc., should not have been a FF at all. This was the first FF to truly become a franchise by allowing Tetsuya Namura take on such a large roll in the development of this game. SOMETIMES I don't like it when ideas become a franchise, FF being one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think Tetsuya is quite talented. However, a part of me feels the FF name would have been better off without him. The stuff they did with Tactics and XII is what I'm more into because at least it's much closer to the pre-Namura days. But I'm still a true FF fan at heart, and just like a favorite football or basketball team fan, there team is going to have there good and bad seasons. I think XII is going to be a good season.

Lol, more smokey and rezo traditionalist remarks.

@ everyone - make sure that you don't change your avs if FFS goes to a newer vB because you'll be "whoring" yourself out

Personally I didn't really like the game to begin with BUT i enjoyed Advent Children alot more. As for the other stuff, yes, I agree they are going overboard.

Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.

Mmm no. Starcraft had a sequel which was also great.

If square enix actually made there sequals good i wouldnt care

Mmm no. Starcraft had a sequel which was also great.

If square enix actually made there sequals good i wouldnt care

agreed.

Lol, more smokey and rezo traditionalist remarks.


What traditionalism? I just think it's funny that his example of a game with an original aura that shouldn't be tainted by sequels is the seventh game in a series.

Mmm no. Starcraft had a sequel which was also great.

If square enix actually made there sequals good i wouldnt careIf you're referring to Starcraft: Brood War, that was actually an expansion for Starcaft, not a sequel...
*sigh* Are we EVER going to see Starcart II, or Starcraft: Ghost for that matter? :-\

agreed.


Same here!

If you're referring to Starcraft: Brood War, that was actually an expansion for Starcaft, not a sequel...
*sigh* Are we EVER going to see Starcart II, or Starcraft: Ghost for that matter? :-\

Brood War would definately fit into the general category of sequel you were referring to.

My facts may be a bit rusty but I thought I heard somewhere that SC Ghost was cancelled. Blizzard did mention that they were planning to "revist the Starcraft world" which was kind of hinting their will be a SC II

Blizzard did mention that they were planning to "revist the Starcraft world" which was kind of hinting their will be a SC II

I hope so. :(

I hope so. :(

Of course they said that about a year ago so who knows now. Blizzard has a pattern of making a game, then releasing an expansion for it and then begin working on another game and I do believe it's Starcrafts turn in line.

Yeh finally a good starcraft game.

pfft they're only "milking" it because of public demand. And now that they've brought out spin-off titles people still find something to complain about.

Here's what I think.*Hopes Square is listening* Well, they've started on the FF6 remake, so that means that the FF7 remake isn't far off. Square should make a version of FF7 for the DS, PSP, GBA and then maybe a version for PS3, 360 and Wii. After that, their series has "re-planted the seeds from a dying tree", and should leave it before they kill it again. *And leave is not supposed to be a joke with tree.*

Here's what I think.*Hopes Square is listening* Well, they've started on the FF6 remake, so that means that the FF7 remake isn't far off. Square should make a version of FF7 for the DS, PSP, GBA and then maybe a version for PS3, 360 and Wii. After that, their series has "re-planted the seeds from a dying tree", and should leave it before they kill it again. *And leave is not supposed to be a joke with tree.*


opinions are opinions until supported by evidence

Here's what I think.*Hopes Square is listening* Well, they've started on the FF6 remake, so that means that the FF7 remake isn't far off. Square should make a version of FF7 for the DS, PSP, GBA and then maybe a version for PS3, 360 and Wii. After that, their series has "re-planted the seeds from a dying tree", and should leave it before they kill it again. *And leave is not supposed to be a joke with tree.*
Here's what I think. You're a dumbass.

One:
Final Fantasy 7 was a game fans wanted to see more of.

Two:
Who said Final Fantasy 7 was a classic or any of those games? Were they labeled Classic Collection like those disney movies? I don't think so.

and

Three:
I was expecting more from Square to make a new Final Fantasy 7, which covers a whole different story and background. I was hoping for a better RPG.

That's all.

Well, reasons for these offshoots definitely wasn't the huge outcry from fanboys/girls for more FF7, no sirrrrr.

Well, reasons for these offshoots definitely wasn't the huge outcry from fanboys/girls for more FF7, no sirrrrr.

LoL. I like you already. More posting plz!


Here's what I think.*Hopes Square is listening* Well, they've started on the FF6 remake, so that means that the FF7 remake isn't far off. Square should make a version of FF7 for the DS, PSP, GBA and then maybe a version for PS3, 360 and Wii. After that, their series has "re-planted the seeds from a dying tree", and should leave it before they kill it again. *And leave is not supposed to be a joke with tree.*

And here's what I think. You're completely full of crap. Fankids like you are the reason why Squeenix continues to produce lackluster garbage like the FFVII spinoffs. Instead of innovating at all, and creating quality titles (without pushing them back for nearly a year), Squeenix can be lazy and spout out crap like DoC and remakes for several years.

I didn't have a problem with it until they started releasing games like Dirge of Cerberus. It's a good game, but, as cool as he is, having Vincent as the lead character was abad move, in my opinion. Should've made a good old slash em up with Cloud, I say.

I also don't like the fact that Before Crisis is a mobile phone game. I mean, what the hell? I don't want to see the end result.

I didn't have a problem with it until they started releasing games like Dirge of Cerberus. It's an alright game, but, as cool as he is, having Vincent as the lead character was a bad move, in my opinion. Should have made a good old slash em up with Cloud, if they were going to make any type of sequel to 7, I say.

I also don't like the fact that Before Crisis is a mobile phone game. I mean, what the hell? I don't want to see the end result as 100% of the phone games I have played are rubbish.

games played on phones generally are rubbish

Vincent was a bad move period, he was less of a main Character than Yuffie. Both of them were optional to the FFVII Storyline, why make a gun-game with vincent, and no gun-arm-toting Mr.T lookalike badass Barrett?

Why make an FFVII spinoff at all when the original game was mediocre? Oh, wait. The fankids. How could I forget?

But...but...
I said that.

Well, what do you really expect, when Square sacked Hironobu Sakaguchi, the man who came up with the name 'Final Fantasy' in the first place.

Final Fantasy VII was a good game... and that's just it. All this talk about remakes and such makes me physically ill. Personally, I think Square should just follow the old adage "If it aint broken, why fix it?". The main reason for all these prequels, sequels and spin off crap, is because Square are just whoring out the FF series.

Even with the 'supposed remakes' of the earlier FF games for next-gen consoles (I was at a convention last weekend, and got caught up talking about this with some of the others there.), Square is going downhill big time IMO.

After Square released FFX, I had doubts about how much longer the FF series was gonna survive, and when FFX-2 came out, the only thing I thought of was to compare Square with the Titanic, sinking below the waves... trying to drag down it's legacy.

Now, I don't hate the FF series (Although, it may seem that way), I'm a traditionalist and prefer the earlier FF's (NES & SNES). IMO remakes are a rather dicey venture for any company to attempt, because not only do you have to appeal to a newer generation, you still have to hook the ones who actually played them on those consoles when they first came out.

Let's face it, Square pretty much became a household name after FFVII, but with some big losses (Final Fantasy - The Spirits Within, just to name an example), they haven't recovered.

And by jumping into bed with that damn Mickey Mouse organisation, and making games with them, is just trying to stave off the inevitable. Sakaguchi has formed his own company, and I think Nobuo Uematsu has joined him as well (Not sure about this, it may just be an unsubstantiated rumour, but...), add in other companies making RPG's could Square's time in the sun be coming to a close?

Nothing lasts forever, and the deathknell tolling the end of Square's reign as 'King of RPG's" could very well be approaching.

A world with FFVII is a better world then a world without FFVII. Don't Complain.

A world with FFVII is a better world then a world without FFVII. Don't Complain.

this will remain an opinion until supported by fact

Fact: People actually enjoy playing FFVII and all it's parts.

A world with FFVII is a better world then a world without FFVII. Don't Complain.this will remain an opinion until supported by fact
Final Fantasy VII basically popularize the console RPG genre in the west, thus greatly increasing the demand for such games. Even if you consider FFVII to be a mediocre RPG or hell, even if you considered it to be the worst game ever made, you can’t deny that it was a very influential title. If not for the success of FFVII, far superior RPGs like Suikoden II, Star Ocean: The Second Story and probably even many of the mainline FF games (given Square’s track record with skipping over FFs for western releases pre-FFVII) might never have seen a release outside Japan.

Personally,and call me crazy, but i like the compiliation. FFVII left alot of unanswered questions. And if you'll notice, the things they are making, are directly related to what the fans want to see. For example Crisis Core is centered around Zack, everybody loved and wanted to know more about zack. Before Crisis centers around the turks, and everyone loved the turks, seeing a pattern? And why get mad at square for making money, isnt that what they're supposed to do?

this will remain an opinion until supported by fact

so it's your opinion then. That there isn't substantive facts to back this up?


Legacy

Final Fantasy VII is regarded as one of the most influential titles in the history of the video game medium. It is credited with allowing RPGs to find a place in markets outside Japan, and remains arguably the most popular title in the Final Fantasy series. In January 2005, it was selected by Electronic Gaming Monthly as 6th on their list of "the 10 most important games ... that helped redefine the industry since ... 1989". Citing its "beautiful cut-scenes and a deep, introspective narrative", they claimed that "Square’s game was ... the first RPG to surpass, instead of copy, movielike storytelling", and that, without it, "Aeris wouldn’t have died, and gamers wouldn’t have learned how to cry". The game's popularity and open-ended nature also led the director and writer to establish a plot-related connection between Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X, another popular Final Fantasy title.

The game's legacy includes the acceptance and standard inclusion of FMV sequences in RPGs, as well as significant advancement in computer graphics. These developments would allow series creator Hironobu Sakaguchi to begin production of the first Final Fantasy film, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. The game also introduced settings dominantly suffused with modern-to-advanced technology into the Final Fantasy series, a theme continued by Final Fantasy VIII and The Spirits Within.Rereleases of Square games in Japan with bonus features would occur frequently after Final Fantasy VII International's release. Later titles that would receive this treatment include Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2 and Kingdom Hearts.

There genius, Wikipedia for you. Just because you're a minority with your ideas, doesn't mean they are right. Probably because they're a minority..

lets not fry people for their opinions..they are opinions after all.

There genius, Wikipedia for you. Just because you're a minority with your ideas, doesn't mean they are right. Probably because they're a minority..

If Wikipedia says it, IT MUST BE TRUE!

I'm going to go change it so that it says


Final Fantasy VII is regarded as one of the stupidiest titles in the history of the video game medium. It is credited with allowing RPGs to find a place in markets outside Japan with those wishing to become more Japanese, and remains arguably the most popular title in the Final Fantasy series with people with no tastes. In January 2005, it was selected by Electronic Gaming Monthly as 6th on their list of "the 10 most important games ... that helped redefine the industry since ... 1989". Citing its "beautifully blocky cut-scenes and a shallow, introspective narrative", they claimed that "Square�s game was ... the first RPG to give uses AIDS, instead of copy, movielike storytelling like the wonders of Hollywood", and that, without it, "Aeris wouldn�t have died, and gamers wouldn�t have learned how to cry, but only pussies would have cry anyway". The game's popularity and open-ended nature also led the director and writer to establish a an endless chain of squeals in which Square could continue to milk money from retards that would buy it. Also it abandoned the Omano orignal artwork for a more anime feel which would attract those who mindlessly love anime style, proven by the fact that VII has the most porn produced of any Final Fantasy Game.

The game's legacy includes the acceptance and standard inclusion of FMV sequences in RPGs, as well as significant advancement in computer graphics. Including the sexual explotation of women by making them with big bouncy breasts, killed off when praying alone, and suspetiable to kidnapping and beastiality acts. These developments would allow series creator Hironobu Sakaguchi to begin production of the first Final Fantasy film, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, which bombed patheticly and set Sony's moive market back hundreds of millions of dollars. The game also introduced settings dominantly suffused with modern-to-advanced technology into the Final Fantasy series, a theme continued by Final Fantasy VIII and The Spirits Within. Rehashes of Square games in Japan with bonus features would occur frequently after Final Fantasy VII International's release. Later titles that would receive this treatment include Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2 which continued sexual explotation and Kingdom Hearts by combining the kiddyness of Disney.

If Wikipedia says it, IT MUST BE TRUE!

Final Fantasy VII basically popularize the console RPG genre in the west, thus greatly increasing the demand for such games. Even if you consider FFVII to be a mediocre RPG or hell, even if you considered it to be the worst game ever made, you can’t deny that it was a very influential title. If not for the success of FFVII, far superior RPGs like Suikoden II, Star Ocean: The Second Story and probably even many of the mainline FF games (given Square’s track record with skipping over FFs for western releases pre-FFVII) might never have seen a release outside Japan.

where's the evidence?
sales charts?...poll results?...anything?...no
this blurb has been jizzed onto the pages of so many magazines that i makes me sick

all the articles that said similar things also lacked the same thing, evidence


so it's your opinion then. That there isn't substantive facts to back this up?


the facts are there

his post had no fact or evidence from a credible source and my statement was based off of that fact


There genius, Wikipedia for you. Just because you're a minority with your ideas, doesn't mean they are right. Probably because they're a minority..

keep in mind that Wikipedia is maintained by just about everyone who has access to the Internet
all you need is to know a buddy who's been given admin status and you can weasel your way into the Wikipedia staff...
that being said, Wikipedia is not a good source for information outside of common knowledge


Fact: People actually enjoy playing FFVII and all it's parts.
note the emboldened text in the quote...i seriously doubt that there's anybody out there that absolutely enjoys every part of a single game
if there is/are, post up some evidence


btw, Black Knight
i like the concept of your sig...the last time i heard that song was from some pencilneck in a beat-ass Civic acting like he was hardcore or something

Hi, my name is Alvin and I enjoyed every second of Final Fantasy VII

Anyway, what I mean by that is there are people out there who like, maybe even love, all the compilations of FFVII that S-E are putting out.

why must they spark my interest in FF7 and tempt me to buy other platforms just for curiosity sake

i hate that i an so easily tempted

If you played good games, you wouldn't be so tempted by FFVII. :notgood:

where's the evidence?
sales charts?...poll results?...anything?...no
this blurb has been jizzed onto the pages of so many magazines that i makes me sick

all the articles that said similar things also lacked the same thing, evidence
Well, it really doesn't take much more than looking at the number of cRPGs released outside of Japan before FFVII, and the number released after it. I mean, I could go through and make a list of every cRPG released if you really want. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_console_role-playing_games) page seems to have a pretty comprehesive list of at least the vast majority of console RPGs released by year. Compare the amount of jRPGs on that list that were released in the US pre and post FFVII.

Well, it really doesn't take much more than looking at the number of cRPGs released outside of Japan before FFVII, and the number released after it. I mean, I could go through and make a list of every cRPG released if you really want. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_console_role-playing_games) page seems to have a pretty comprehesive list of at least the vast majority of console RPGs released by year. Compare the amount of jRPGs on that list that were released in the US pre and post FFVII.


keep in mind that the list you posted can be used to say the same thing for other games

here's an example using Xenogears:
there were in 1996 and 1997, there were 15 RPG titles released in the US in each year (FF7 was released in 1997), 23 in 1998 (the year Xenogears was released), and 31 in 1999
so one could make the assumption the Xenogears was influential more influential than FF7 in the manner that you speak by this alone

if you want to extend the scope of your argument to all the years before and after the release of FF7, you're in over your head...
you'd need to take into account for population increases, which would make way for the creation of multiple development teams within one company, that would then lead to the production of more games
i'd do the math for you, but i'm just taking a break from studying for finals at the moment

Well, it really doesn't take much more than looking at the number of cRPGs released outside of Japan before FFVII, and the number released after it. I mean, I could go through and make a list of every cRPG released if you really want. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_console_role-playing_games) page seems to have a pretty comprehesive list of at least the vast majority of console RPGs released by year. Compare the amount of jRPGs on that list that were released in the US pre and post FFVII.

More games of pretty much all genres were released post-FFVII, because the video game industry as a whole was getting stronger by the year. Saying that more RPGs were released because of FFVII is like saying more fighters were released because of, say, Rise of the Robots.

As for me... I'm sticking to the original game.

What happened to your FF7 diary CyanCyde? Did you finish the game?

Yeah, I was wondering that.

Xiahou Dun:
"Nothing lasts forever, and the deathknell tolling the end of Square's reign as 'King of RPG's" could very well be approaching."

Square never has been ''King of RPG's'', or at least not in its own home territory. Dragon Warrior/Quest has always outsold Final Fantasy. In fact, in Japan, Dragon Warrior release days cannot be on work days because there tends to be too much demand for the game. Dragon Warrior is such a cultural phenomenon in Japan that there are live-action ballets, musical concerts, and audio CDs based on the Dragon Warrior universe. The London Philharmonic Orchestra has performed for several Dragon Warrior music albums. I guess they like their Dragon Warrior.

Miscellaneous: The change from Dragon Quest to Dragon Warrior in the United States and Europe for a long time has been because of a game released in the 1980's called "DragonQuest", based off of the roleplaying scene of the time.

Now, for Final Fantasy 7. Hoo, boy.

Well, first off, it's overhyped. Okay, we've jumped that hurdle.

Second, it was widely recieved for its '3D Graphics' in an era where most "mainstream" gamers amused themselves by rotating the camera in a lewd manner at Laura Croft, and largely disregarded sprites for their inferior graphics or something. I guess Lego Land with Swords was better. Hm.

Third, it did largely catapult the JRPG name in the West. I mean, before we had some dungeon romps like Eye of the Beholder. They weren't bad, but there wasn't much variety. It changed a lot after FF7 was released, and it was good to see games like Arc the Lad and all, but the spawning of internet retard children is the result of the JRPG's pyrrhic victory, unfortunately. A lot else that I could talk about FF7 and why it is a solid, but mediocre, game is opinion, and arguing opinions is entertaining. I mean, retarded. Because opinions are sacred things that we must protect from any uh, challenging. Right. It's not really worth touching on, and the game's been released.

However, there is something I have a bit of a bone with. People praising it for its 'perfect' story when it needs a pretty but relatively mindless movie for 'completeness'. If the game can't wrap up its story in what was expected, then it doesn't really have a good story. If it keeps you wondering without tying up loose ends, it's not complete when it was intended to be. Before, every game was its own game, for a good while until Square saw there was good money in duping saps. And, hey, no real problems with that, but just don't expect me to believe the fanboy fodder they're dishing out is 'good'.

I suppose I should be somewhat entertained to see fanboys/girls spending there money on crap, but for some reason I am not. Maybe I should try something witty like $quare$oft. Because noone's tried an unwitty joke like that before, right? Still, Squenix is just duping people who seem to have commited (what's left of, anyway) their lives to a franchise of silicon and polygons. Seems like a racket, except legal. And less 'classy' prostitutes and guys with names like "Guido".

And, uh, I liked FF: Spirits Within. It was pretty, and was better than I expected it to be. The designs were some of Nomura's best, a lot better than the stuff he puts out now. I sort of wish they'd do a game on that.

Xiahou Dun:
"Nothing lasts forever, and the deathknell tolling the end of Square's reign as 'King of RPG's" could very well be approaching."

Square never has been ''King of RPG's'', or at least not in its own home territory. Dragon Warrior/Quest has always outsold Final Fantasy. In fact, in Japan, Dragon Warrior release days cannot be on work days because there tends to be too much demand for the game. Dragon Warrior is such a cultural phenomenon in Japan that there are live-action ballets, musical concerts, and audio CDs based on the Dragon Warrior universe. The London Philharmonic Orchestra has performed for several Dragon Warrior music albums. I guess they like their Dragon Warrior.

Miscellaneous: The change from Dragon Quest to Dragon Warrior in the United States and Europe for a long time has been because of a game released in the 1980's called "DragonQuest", based off of the roleplaying scene of the time.

I only used 'King of RPG's' in reference to the fact that many other rpg's which hit the western world, are more often than not, compared to the FF series. Some of the gaming magazines I have read, always do a comparison with new rpg's, up against FF. I'm not sure about how popular the Dragon Warrior/Quest's games are, but I do remember reading one magazine, which had the opinion that the latest Dragon Quest/Warrior game, was no match for any of the FF games (The magazine in question keeps changing it's editorial staff all the time, so I tend not to pay any attention to their reviews.).


And, uh, I liked FF: Spirits Within. It was pretty, and was better than I expected it to be. The designs were some of Nomura's best, a lot better than the stuff he puts out now. I sort of wish they'd do a game on that.

FF : Spirits Within... I think should of been called "Spirits Within : A Final Fantasy Movie". Granted graphically it was stunning, but the plot was just a rehashed version of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"... more or less. The alien designs were reminscent of H.R. Giger's 'Xenomorphs' from the Aliens series, and even the music for FF : Spirits Within was composed by the same composer who wrote the score for Aliens, Elliot Goldenthal.

Square sees the monetary value that the FF series has become, and is flogging it for all it's worth. Still, All good things... Must come to an end.

I only used 'King of RPG's' in reference to the fact that many other rpg's which hit the western world, are more often than not, compared to the FF series. Some of the gaming magazines I have read, always do a comparison with new rpg's, up against FF. I'm not sure about how popular the Dragon Warrior/Quest's games are, but I do remember reading one magazine, which had the opinion that the latest Dragon Quest/Warrior game, was no match for any of the FF games (The magazine in question keeps changing it's editorial staff all the time, so I tend not to pay any attention to their reviews.).



FF : Spirits Within... I think should of been called "Spirits Within : A Final Fantasy Movie". Granted graphically it was stunning, but the plot was just a rehashed version of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"... more or less. The alien designs were reminscent of H.R. Giger's 'Xenomorphs' from the Aliens series, and even the music for FF : Spirits Within was composed by the same composer who wrote the score for Aliens, Elliot Goldenthal.

Square sees the monetary value that the FF series has become, and is flogging it for all it's worth. Still, All good things... Must come to an end.

Ah, yes, that's pretty true. I think a certain game in question may be due to this, though it can be a bit unfortunate. Narrows down what we're really looking at. I think in general though, a lot of magazines don't always give reliable reviews on popular games. These fanboy reviews are a sort of decline in review quality in favour of giving a nod, to, well fanboys. FF fanboys tend to be more frequent than DQ fanboys, and since people who disagree with your reviews to a large extent will not frequent your magazine subscriptions, it is a safer option to give said nods.

I like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers, but I guess I wasn't thinking of it when I was watching FF:TSW, though there are quite a few similarities, come to think of it. The Giger remniscent aliens though, I think, were more of just a phase that the movie scene was going through because Alien/s was such a smash hit. The music, was probably another way to cash in on the Aliens phase, but it fit the movie. I think, though, IotB was just such an archetypical film that similarities were inevitable. But, hey, it's good to see critiques on FF:TSW that weren't just something like "sux".

Sidenote: Xiahou Dun was easily one of my favourite guys in the Three Kingdoms novels. Eating your own eye? That's pretty much the sign of a hard-ass. A friend of mine bought me the set, and even if I don't always have a lot of time to read, they're good stuff.

Zhang he > Liu Bei > Cao Cao

99% of you have no idea what I just said.

Well, the milking seems to be going quite well, regardless of what anyone says...
AT LEAST IT IS ON *MY* END!!! AHHH!!!

But I'm obsessed with FFVII now, anyway. :-[


(By the way --> Suikoden rather sucked in my opinion, sry WIKIPEDIA!) :D

Zhang he > Liu Bei > Cao Cao

99% of you have no idea what I just said.

I disagree, Zheng He just didn't have the same influence as either Cao Cao or Liu Bei. Oh, yeah, he was a good general and man to have on your side, but you wouldn't to have him leading you. Liu Bei's a good guy, but he's too *good* good. It just doesn't work out.

I'm going with Cao Cao. Or Tsao Tsao. Or however I'm supposed to spell his name. Yeah, he's devious, but if he's leading you, he can't really betray you right? I mean, then he'd be practically betraying himself. And that'd kick his paranoia senses up. And then he might, I dunno. Bad stuff, bad stuff. Seriously, though, he was an empire builder, though a lot of credit goes to a brilliant assortment of officers under his command. In the end, Liu Bei's Sleeping Dragon just wasn't enough.

But Zhang He reminds me of Vegas from Street Fighter, and Street Fighter has cool people like Ryu and Ken and.... well you know... :)...

Anyway Cao Cao is evil. There is a saying in China that goes along the lines of: You say Cao Cao name's and he's right behind you, meaning that whenever you talked behind his back he always appeared and killed you!

Of course that's saying is only said when you talk about sometime and you see them the next second. Creepy huh.

Yeah Liu Bei is really my favourite, cause he wears his hair a funny way :)

OMG @ first, I was all for it (all the add-ons to FFVII), but now I'm starting to think they should just make FFVII it's own series apart from FF...That way, when FFXXVIII comes out, there won't be "Final FINAL FINAL Fantasy VII: 10 Years After Nibelheim"(I know it's a crappy title, but I'm trying to make a point)/etc,etc,etc,etc,etc...
*sigh*

Was Dirge of Cerebus really that good? Frankly it wasn't my cup of tea. Don't get me wrong, I like shooters, but S-E never did something like that before.(As far as I know) As any business person will tell you, risk is part of business and even game developers have to take risks from time to time. SE's problem was that they did too much too fast in doing Cerebus and it hurt them in some ways. In a way it came awful close to becoming another 'Final Fantasy Movie' and that was an unmitigated disaster.

On the other hand, Advent Children was awesome. Everything about it rocked. The details and action of the movie was some of the best I've seen in a long time. Sometimes a company with get one thing right and another thing wrong. Its just the nature of business.

As far as FF VII goes whether the sequels and prequels are a good idea will be ultimately decided by the profit margin when the numbers come in.

People say FF VII had the biggest impact for RPGs. Sure ok, if you don't include Crono Trigger, Mana Series, Zelda games, and computerized Dungeons and Dragons, Wild Arms series(which started around the time when FF VII was released) and the many other series that have come and gone throughout the years since 1988 or so.

Unfortunately milking a series or just plain screwing it up isn't something that S-E has a monopoly on. I'm sure most of us remember the Lufia games, Breath of Fire series, Lunar, Legacy of Kain, and recently, the Xenosaga games which where cut from 6 games to 3 games because of outright stupidity from Namco.(Please, OH please don't let any Bandai employees touch the .hack series!)

To say FF VII is the end all to RPGs is just plain foolish and perhaps arrogant too boot. Just sticking to one game or series ruins the opportunity to enjoy the countless other games that are out there.

Wow Graeystone, you made some really good points in there! Kudos!

Thanks red! I guess it comes from being around.(Anyone else remember pestering their parents for quarters to play Pac-Man or Asteroids? I sure do!=) )

A lot of what I wrote is old concerns from the early 80's when Atari, Colecovision and, Intellivision were the main consoles out there. They were strong for quite awhile until the whole thing went bust, no thanks to the developers. The games they made were either crap, extremely buggy(games would not work at all), or both. Although to be fair, Mattel and Atari didn't do anyone any favors by not making newer and better consoles and caused a dead end in terms of better game development.

Every time I hear or read about a popular series ending through bad development(as I listed before) or a console maker making dumb decisions with a new console, a chill runs down my back. I got that feeling a couple of times in the past few years when the bad reviews(not just the magazines but also gamers said a game is lousy) outweighed the good reviews for the number of games that were out at the time.

If S-E is going to make FF VII into a new franchise or whatever, they might want to take a hard look at what happened in the past. As a matter of fact, all developers and console makers need to remember or be reminded at what happened back then. If it wasn't for Nintendo and SEGA and their 8-bit systems, gaming wouldn't be what it is today, if it would exist at all.

But Zhang He reminds me of Vegas from Street Fighter, and Street Fighter has cool people like Ryu and Ken and.... well you know... :)...

Anyway Cao Cao is evil. There is a saying in China that goes along the lines of: You say Cao Cao name's and he's right behind you, meaning that whenever you talked behind his back he always appeared and killed you!

Of course that's saying is only said when you talk about sometime and you see them the next second. Creepy huh.

Yeah Liu Bei is really my favourite, cause he wears his hair a funny way :)

Why hasn't Lubu been mentioned yet? One of the coolest has to be Zhao Yun. "Another has falled to my spear!"

Lubu was frickin' cheap sauce.

You dare face the mighty Lubu!?!

Lubu is so close to being lube. Seriousllly you can't take anyone with a name like that seriouslly :D

Lubu is so close to being lube. Seriousllly you can't take anyone with a name like that seriouslly :D

No way. DW 5 brought in the worst one.

"I AM COW PEE!"
I just thought, "Goddammit.". I mean, how do you pronounce a name like that without making people crack up?
Cow Pie? No dice.
Cow Pee? Nuh-uh.
"Man Chong" was a usual source of cheap laughs.

It's names like those that split my sides in public gatherings.

what is up with the purest ff7 was a great game and has a great universe to explore so what the problem with spin off
tv has been doing it for years with alot of sucess for exmaple buffy had angel
angel being a great progame to watch so why can't this be true for games
these company are there to make money and games they are not exclusive so dont cry about this should not make this or that if you dont like dont play or watch don infect the web with a childish attituid advent children was very cool and complemented the ff franshise realy well i cant wait for more to come and for there to have ff 8&9 or kindom hearts

Oh look. A random cunt with atrocious grammar, pitiful spelling, and an inability to use any sort of punctuation is lecturing people on a topic he knows nothing about. How amusing.

Ooooh
His forum name is an e-mail address...time for some SPAM mail.

you try to insult me yes i know i have bad grammer. I dyslexia and you try to
tell me i dont know nothing about final fantasy get a live stop winging about.
Square making games and films because thats what they do all company are
there to make mony. If this is to much for your tiny brain to cope with do the

wolrd a favor kill your self do yourself . And don infect the gene pool if you want to reply. Say somthing intellegent instead of the childish bull shit of trying to insult me it wont work i have heard it all little boy . And my user name being my email was a simple glitch in the browser so dont bother spamming because it wont work.

Square-enix are doing a great job with the ff franshise and that what it is a has always been and always will. If you dont like it dont buy their games i have played their games for years and will play them for years to come.

ff7 is a classic game i agree with that but it is a game with a universe that has charater that have storys to tell that all are connected to the ff7 main story
how did they know how to use material to use has a enegy source for example

me as a player of the ff games would like to explore this i hope has i said in the original post the back story of ff8+9 these are games to with a univers to explore the film advent children did this with great effect how many gamer
thought what happens next well in ffac you get to find out that was cool a
new story to be a part of do i agree that square-enix is milking it no i dont.

And thats what got your knickers in a twist someone say somthing different
form you you dont you like that some say somthing a forum and every ones got to agree that not a discussion that a one way self rightious bull approach
to a debate ff is a game that has been around for a long time so there are

going to be the type of player who thinks he owns the right to dictate what can and can not be made as long has they have millions of sale they will do has they please the japanes market is the strongest territory so that is the area in that would that will be doing the anything saling to the rest of the wolrd is just a bonus to them so get used to it

i say i want more do a sequae to ff8 or ff9 i would buy those games
do a movie prequal to ff8 or ff9 i would buy the dvd because i know it will be great to wtch and play and has for kindom hearts that is a game of legends
a cross over game done to perfection onec i get a new playstion 2 slim i will be buying kingdom hearts 2 final mix

That could only be better if it rhymed.

wookie, i dont want to be mean, but you cant blame your terrible grammar on dislexia, i have dislexia also,and my grammar is fine. You do need to work on your grammar. As an english major, it kills me to read it.

As long as spelling isnt too bad and you can read it a few left out comma's here and there is fine imo.

Christ, why am I laughing so hard at wookie's post?

for one i dont care about what you think of me all i was saying was there are good reason for square to do what they do you sad low lifes try to insult me and misquoting me is this all you have have a intellgent thought insults are low or is that all you can do i petty you

if you want to say somthing try to add to the debate without the childish bull shit that seem to be the main theme in your replys give reason why squre is milking with examples do just say they are milking without backing it up any fool with a keyboard can dom that

has i said in the first post it works for tv so why can't it work for games if there is acompany that milks there frashise time time again it not squre its the big lucas arts with starwars they have had ove 20 years of games can you even metion 10 good ones or 5 good ones kotop was one but that was done by rpg gods bioware so that dont count this what you call a intellegent dabating

no more you cant spell you dont have good grammer or lets spam him which did not work im not overflowing with adverts asking if i need to buy cheap viagra


give a reason why you think that Square-Enix is milking FFVII way too much
and give examples or is this to much for you to take

...wookie, I whole-heartedly agree with your standpoint on the issue of Square milking FFVII. I think they're doing a great job.
Honestly, your posts seem to make good points(well, the parts I can make sense of)
What we are complaining about is that your grammar gives me a headache....
you could have the greatest points in the world, but i wouldnt know that, due to your extreme MUTILATION of the english language.
You are telling us that we dont know how to debate when you can't even spell the word! Ok, so some people arent the greatest spellers, that's fine.
But FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, separate your thoughts with a fricken comma!!

oh, and one more thing
i petty you you meant pity, petty is minor or trivial, you certainly do not minor or trivial us. PITY!! how do you not know that?

I just love the stupidity of wookie's posts and how his forum name screws-up the layout, it only adds to the hilarity that is now this thread.

give a reason why you think that Square-Enix is milking FFVII way too much
and give examples or is this to much for you to take

Just so you know, people know or less treat you like your posts. Your posts are idiotic, so I'm going to treat you like an idiot. OK?

Right then. AC was a decent action movie, though nothing mind-blowing. If they had stopped there, that would have been brilliant. But then Square pulled Dirge of Cerburus out of their ass.

First off, Vincent was the least interesting character of FFVII, plus he has little or no backstory. Coincidentally, he also has the biggest mindless fanbase of any FFVII character, except maybe Cloud or Sephiroth. Not to mention the general opinion (I wouldn't know, I'm not a big fan of the shooter genre), DoC is a pathetically easy/crappy game, compared to other shooters. Making a game with him is obviously not an attempt to create a good game, just using the FFVII name to appeal to fans. This is a practice known as 'milking' FFVII. Are you starting to understand?

And now there are at least three, and most likely more, spin-off games that won't add to the series but take away from it. Square haven't even tried to expand on VIII or IX, they're just happy to keep churning out shit with an FFVII label on it, knowing that they will make sackfuls of money because braindead fankids like you will eat it up.

First off, Vincent was the least interesting character of FFVII, plus he has little or no backstory. Coincidentally, he also has the biggest mindless fanbase of any FFVII character, except maybe Cloud or Sephiroth.
I started to read this and about midway I was going to post in big goofy letters:
'D0n'7 4get b0ut Cl0UD ADN S3PHIR0TH!!!1!!!'

Nice save.

Advent Children (sequel) and Crisis Core (prequel)would of covered the FFVII bases nicely , BC and DC weren't needed as they dont add to the game story wise...

Square is making too much of FF7.Yes.But AC was good.Oh gawd I loved FF7AC.I loved it.But I hated DoC.It was made for girls who haven't experienced sexy time yet.Not to mention BC,CC,FC,VV,CGRG,DDEERR,FCE,KOIISSSSD, and all the other mobile phone CRAP.

I liked FFVII before anyone even told me about the game and before I had even heard of it from advertisements and whatnot. I played FFVIII first actually and I got a copy of the FFVII demo and played through it and loved it... I played through it several times over actually and wanted to know what happened next to the people I just played as. I quickly ran to Wal-Mart and purchased a copy for $19.99 and played through it for the first time when I was in 7th grade and was so addicted to it that I continued to play it over and over until my Senior year, literally.

I didn't get this game due to hype or word of mouth. I liked it because I thought it was a great game and for all of my own reasons. I don't give a damn if people consider it "overrated" because that word is rather meaningless in today's English language because it's overused for everything that is "popular" nowadays.

Okay, I've got that out of my system... as for the FFVII compilation I do somewhat agree that they are milking out the franchise a bit too much. I loved Advent Children because I got to see my favorite cast of characters once more with voices and amazing visuals and as far as DoC goes... it was nice to see Vincent get his own game so I could learn a bit more about him but the game really wasn't necessary as some have stated. It did very little to add to the original story line in general. As far as Before Crises goes I think it looks like a very promising game actually... I've watched the newest trailer and it's going to be the main reason I buy a PSP this year, lol. Finally, for the anime short "Last Order" it was a nice attempt to elaborate on the Nibelheim and I enjoyed watching sexy man Sephiroth, lol.

I'm a fan of FF7 (Except for killing off Aeris/Aerith :(), and loved Advent Children, but I think they are milking it a little too much. I'd love to see what a remake on the PS3 would look like though.

Ok, all you goobers who has had to just spout off your two cents about how much FFVII sucked and how those who are still into the story are fanboys are now COOL. Congratulations, you shown all of us how COOL you are. Well done.

As for the original topic, Square has taken the FF series to a new low as far as storylines go. I think it mainly has to do with the majority of energies going into graphics design. I think the more they try and make a game beautiful the less they focus on making the stories complex and the game play more addicting. It costs a lot of money to beautify something to the extent they do these games nowadays.

FFVII was so successful because it struck a cord in its audience. Less face it. The majority of people who played the game were lonely teenagers without girlfriends. We got to fall in love with a beautiful character, watch her die at the hands of a extremely cool badguy, and play the confused hero who saves the day. It's popularity is the reason we're still talking about it today and not luba or some of the other titles that were mentioned.

Btw before anyone says ooo you need to play more games. When i was a teenager I was poor. Hell i'm still poor. I have never had a mommy and daddy with corporate accounts that i could buy whatever i wanted with. I'm sorry, but I've always had to prioritize what i spent my money on. I'm sure i'm not the only one around here that's been in that situation growing up too.

*gives TheTransporter cookie* Nicely said.

Personally, last order would have been acceptable. maybe AC at a push. It was alright, but it made no sense. It added nothing to the story and other than looking pretty, it was kinda pointless.

Nicely said? Hardly.

Fucking hilarious in a sad sort of way? Most definitely.

i do dare face it.

Hmm interesting topic this. Personally I like the FF series (except X and X-2 seriously what were they smoking) because each game tells a new story, with new characters, in a whole new world.

that being said I did like FFVII:AC, but other than that I do agree that they are over milking this a bit. I was happy when FFXII came out because its a fresh new game, with new game play as well which makes it an even more original Final Fantasy game.

This is just my opinion however I know theres a lot of FFVII fans out there, which is why their making all these spin offs in the first place.

I cant wait for the ff 7 remake

And I can't wait for fucknuts like you to realize that it isn't coming and to stop yammering about it.

I really wonder why these retards feel the need to sign-up here just to make a shitty post.

My friend introduced me to the world of Final Fantasy and the story of Final Fantasy VII is what got me hooked on playing RPGs in the first place. Sure 3D graphics like those used in Advent Children and some RPGs nowadays look nice, but I'll take a story that hooks you over good graphics anyday. And yeah I think they have milked FF7 a little too much, but as long as it's selling I guess they will do it as much as they can.

I dont see whats the big deal. Square isnt the only company to ever milk their top franchise. Its been done plenty of times before. How many dynasty warrior games have been released in the past 5 years? How many mega man and mega man spinoffs has there been? Its called striking the iron while its hot.

1up.com did a poll not too long ago and they asked whats the ps1 game you would like to have available for download on the ps3. Of course FF7 was top in votes. Its what the people want. Square would be really dumb not to pursue this.

The thing with Dynasty Warrior, Mega Man, and any other game series is that they DIDN'T spin off on something based strictly on one game within a series.
As for the poll, it doesn't say much. The sample is horribly biased since only the people who go to 1up.com and find the poll worthwhile would bother to vote.

The thing with Dynasty Warrior, Mega Man, and any other game series is that they DIDN'T spin off on something based strictly on one game within a series.
As for the poll, it doesn't say much. The sample is horribly biased since only the people who go to 1up.com and find the poll worthwhile would bother to vote.

They dont have spinoffs because they recycle the same game over and over every year. Why doesnt the poll say much? Everywhere you go, people always mention FF7. Its just shows what the people want. Of course square is going to milk that. Im just suprised it took them like 10 years to do so.

If I were them, Id release FF8 and 9 in the same package sort of a dawn of souls type deal.

They dont have spinoffs because they recycle the same game over and over every year. Why doesnt the poll say much? Everywhere you go, people always mention FF7. Its just shows what the people want. Of course square is going to milk that. Im just suprised it took them like 10 years to do so.

If I were them, Id release FF8 and 9 in the same package sort of a dawn of souls type deal.

If you want to know why the polls don't say much, then either study up on how polls are conducted or read this (http://www.physics.smu.edu/~pseudo/Polls/)

Main point I want you to see in that article: online polls = volunteer sample, volunteer sample = biased results

If you want to know why the polls don't say much, then either study up on how polls are conducted or read this (http://www.physics.smu.edu/~pseudo/Polls/)

Main point I want you to see in that article: online polls = volunteer sample, volunteer sample = biased results

By the same token, you could claim the results are biased the other way. For example, say 60% of the results thought FFVII should be remade. A census might show only 40% of people agree, but then again, it could be 80% who agree. That poll may not be conclusive, but you certainly can't say that it proves the opposite to be true.

This is all that I was saying you moron:
Volunteer polls are a major source of bias and therefore are NOT a good source to back your claims.

This is all that I was saying you moron:
Volunteer polls are a major source of bias and therefore are NOT a good source to back your claims.


All polls are bias then. Im sure if FF7 wasnt chosen in the poll it wouldnt have mattered at all right?

FFVII rocked; I picked it up off the shelf one day years ago without knowing anything about Final Fantasy and got hooked on the series altogether. I wish Square-Enix would leave FFVII alone already. Not that they will unless it stopped making them money. =\
Screw those biased volunteer polls.

All polls are bias then. Im sure if FF7 wasnt chosen in the poll it wouldnt have mattered at all right?

Yup. Regardless of the outcome, I'd still rant and rave about the illigitimacy of polls.

Can't believe this thread is still going...

We all know that as a business, Squareenix does what it does to make money. That's the main thing, and unfortunately it seems that FFVII is the main focus for everyone at the moment.

In regards to volunteer based polls, how reliable are they? Do they represent the majority of gamers who play those games, or just ppl who like to jump on the bandwagon?

Can't believe this thread is still going...

We all know that as a business, Squareenix does what it does to make money. That's the main thing, and unfortunately it seems that FFVII is the main focus for everyone at the moment.

In regards to volunteer based polls, how reliable are they? Do they represent the majority of gamers who play those games, or just ppl who like to jump on the bandwagon?


I dont know what they stand for but for some reason anytime a question about rpgs or great ps1 games come up, FF7 is named. Now my point was it just shows what people want. Its not a secret that people, fanboy or not, want more FF7. And SE, being a business, would be stupid not to capitalize. Its just really obvious.

Thier recent attempts to capitalize on the FF7 name have flopped.


Its not a secret that people, fanboy or not, want more FF7.
Let's be honest now...you can't confirm if that's a fact or not.

I dont know what they stand for but for some reason anytime a question about rpgs or great ps1 games come up, FF7 is named. Now my point was it just shows what people want.

I admit, FFVII was the second psx game I ever bought (Transformers Beast Wars was the first), and I did like it. I suppose in some way I still do like it... but after everything that has come out for it, my dislike for this game is growing.

I never said that FFVII was a great game, and if I check my memory.... done... I have never stated that FFVII was a great game. A good game, yeah, but not a great game IMO.


Its not a secret that people, fanboy or not, want more FF7.

Really? People want more FFVII? Damn, I must rush on down to my nearest game store, and buy everything they have with FFVII stamped on it right away! Please explain to me how you came about this knowledge, as I admit they're probably are some ppl who do, as you claim, want more FFVII. But I'm willing to bet that there are also ppl who do NOT want more FFVII.


And SE, being a business, would be stupid not to capitalize. Its just really obvious.

Capitalize? FFVII? So that's what they call it now. It used to be called 'Flogging a dead cow'. I mean, how far can they go now with FFVII? Really? The main story has been said and done, we don't need anymore for crying outloud. How many times do we have to revisit the same world again, and again, and again? SE has already had us revisit Ivalice for the third time now, do we really want the same for FFVII?

Even the series creator didn't want all this prequel/sequel/remake stuff. He was content enough to leave each FF game as a fully independant story, why add more to it?

I'm reminded of an old saying in regards to FFVII, the prequels, sequels and such...

If it aint broken, why fix it?

A lesson which SE still has to learn IMO.

SE has already had us revisit Ivalice for the third time now

Technically, yes. But it's a vastly different world, apart from name, each time. There are no more similarities between FFT, TA and XII than you'll find when comparing other FF games.

Thier recent attempts to capitalize on the FF7 name have flopped.


Let's be honest now...you can't confirm if that's a fact or not.

Ok let me rephrase myself, the "Majority" of people want more of FF7. From me reading boards, talking to gamers, even the reaction of the people when the FF7 tech demo was shown. Its really obvious that FF7 is something that a shitload of people want. Spin off or not, SE knows whats wanted. Thats why they are milking it. The same reason capcom releases a new mega man game every year, the same reason a dynasty warriors game is made every year. Now im not saying the spin offs SE is producing are good. I didnt buy Dirge because it looks like crap. I think its really evident that FF7 is a hot comodity.

I cant wait for the ff 7 remake
keep waiting

keep waiting

I like this post...it made me lol out of my ass.

FF7 what a topic. Ok time for a rant ;) (Zetsumei yes my first post but no I didnt join to post this!!!)

Ok firstly I have enjoyed every thing I have seen released form SE about FF7. FF7 had a good if not great story. Worth the money spent on it. Last Order was nice for the download time, as when Zack fought it was ace. Nothing really expanded there. AC was beautiful and was worth also the buy. Story was was not up to top but great action sequences. DoC game play was lacking but in my own opinon its story was up to my liking.

Now that you know im what you might call a fanboy who has after finding FF7 all those years ago, bought FF8/9/11/12 and played all others at least in the series that I could get a hold of. You can hear the opinon of a fanboy as there seems to be a lack of the them on what seems to be a FF message board (Scratches head in owe at the lack of)

You all say it should stop being milked and that they a ruining the what FF7 was, I think to that you are wrong because how can you already ruin somthing that was in your own opinon great. How ca you start to hate the first game because the second was created. The second can never take away what the first one was. As for the old all saying "If it is not broken why fix it?" Im not sure that applys as the say SE are going on it "Expand it, its works fine."

What gets me is you complain SE is milking it yet. all of you who have commented on the additions must of bought them or known someone who has. Therefore for use who have played them you are just doing SE a favour and I laugh at you, as you have done exactly what you said you hated form FanBoys. For those who have not bought or played the others you have no room for a comment. As you can no comment on something you have no knowlage on. You say SE are wrong on this, I laugh at you as you have just added to there profits and helped them milk it. haha.

Oh just to add im making a fanfic, look out for it!

Oh look. A moron revived an old thread to post fanboy bullshit. What a shocking development this is.

Were has this happened before? way too fucking much, CHECK THE FUCKING DATES.

The thread is not that old guys..

Old enough, it's ok to revive around 2 month old threads, but only if you have a decent reason doing do.

yeah i agree they do, but then i wouldnt mind them remaking some FF's with decent graphics...

I agree...it's my dorky rpg wet dream that they give it some decent graphics. I know, they're tooo fucking lazy and it would take too long, but come on!

Advent children is brilliant, I think they are over selling VII but I dont care because half of the stuff they are bringing out is pretty decent.

Advent Children is great.... but most of my friend tell that they didn't understand the storyline... who care of it, they don't understand because they didn't play the game as long as I understand. The graphic was soo cool, the most part of it all environment and other made in fully CG...
great... great...
"two tumbs up"
maybe someday square-enix will make some episode of it, so we can watch it every week ;))

I Think/Believe that Square Enix is trying to make Final Fantasy understood by all types of people. And while they are doing that they are also making sure to make a profit! (That sounds like perfect business sklls to me) And just because they are only making more final fantsy 7's right now doesn't mean they are milking it. It just means that they are trying to show all the back story to final fantasy 7, and it's final fantasy! Can you really say "stop making final fantasy" without feeling a quiver of ice down your spine? And so what if most of the new final fantasy's are all spinoffs of an original final fantasy? it just shows how good of a game they are and Everyone has their favorite final fantasy that they would like to see what happens...(mine is final fantsy 10 and it made me so happy to find out there was a final fantasy 10-2 coming out! but mostly when i beat 10-2 i felt sad that it was over just when i got yuna and tidus together again! i wanted to see what they do together and what wakka's baby looks like grown up and who rikku & paine hook up with? and i wanted to see most of all what happened when tidus and yuna grew old together?) So everyone wants to know what happens next! And that is what square enix is doing (more or less)(^o^)

"two tumbs up"

Man, I gotta visit the AC section more often.

They milk it as much as they want and I'd still buy 'em ;) Besides all I really want is a really good FF7 remake w/o a bunch of crap thrown into them

They milk it as much as they want and I'd still buy 'em

That's exactly what they need: consumers not thinking about what they buy.

I Think/Believe that Square Enix is trying to make Final Fantasy understood by all types of people. And while they are doing that they are also making sure to make a profit! (That sounds like perfect business sklls to me) And just because they are only making more final fantsy 7's right now doesn't mean they are milking it. It just means that they are trying to show all the back story to final fantasy 7, and it's final fantasy! Can you really say "stop making final fantasy" without feeling a quiver of ice down your spine? And so what if most of the new final fantasy's are all spinoffs of an original final fantasy? it just shows how good of a game they are and Everyone has their favorite final fantasy that they would like to see what happens...(mine is final fantsy 10 and it made me so happy to find out there was a final fantasy 10-2 coming out! but mostly when i beat 10-2 i felt sad that it was over just when i got yuna and tidus together again! i wanted to see what they do together and what wakka's baby looks like grown up and who rikku & paine hook up with? and i wanted to see most of all what happened when tidus and yuna grew old together?) So everyone wants to know what happens next! And that is what square enix is doing (more or less)(^o^)

SE is doing what a business is doing to make money, taking an earlier hit, altering things to the story and characters and releasing them to the public masses...

I've placed my rant about this whole FFVII spinoff/sequel/prequel stuff.. and right now I just can't be bothered...

If ppl want more, then fine, go ahead and buy the fucking things... but stop trying to find ways to convince others to do what you are doing, running out to your nearest store, when a new FFVII title has come out and creaming your pants in orgasmic overload when you get your grubby little mitts on the title in question.

Just because some moronic lifeforms blindly follow whatever is dished out to them, doesn't mean EVERYONE else has to join you.

Whether it`s money or not... I liked AC, LO and DoC... And from what I`ve seen CC looks totally awsome too...

Square is milking FF7 just like every other company milks their number one franchise. Koei does it with dynasty warriors, capcom with mega man, nintendo with mario and pokemon. The list goes on and on. There's also a FF12 spinoff coming out, and a FF13 compilation. Squares milking everything lol.

Square is milking FF7 just like every other company milks their number one franchise. Koei does it with dynasty warriors, capcom with mega man, nintendo with mario and pokemon. The list goes on and on. There's also a FF12 spinoff coming out, and a FF13 compilation. Squares milking everything lol.

Koei has other titles as well and besides, Dynasty Warriors is based off of Luo Guanzhong's Novel, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which is based off of actual Historical events which occurred in China circa 180AD - 260AD.

Capcom has other titles which they have, besides Megaman (Streetfighter franchise, Breath of Fire series... just to name a couple.).

Nintendo, true, I grant that Nintendo seems to be focusing on those game. But they've done greats in the past.

FF12 spinoffs and FF13 series... I'll leave my rant about them for later.

I agree completely. As much as I enjoyed FFVII, Square-Enix are sucking it dry. They have made so many sub-games, with a movie here and there, which relate to FFVII, that the original doesn't seem so special anymore. Ok, they made a movie (Advent Children) which takes place 2 years after the original game, that's one thing. However, then you get games on the PSP, and Mobile Phone, and then another sequel to the movie! Now, that my friends, takes the cake. It was a game which was released 10 years ago, get over it...

I definately agree that they really don't need to keep making more things related to FF VII. Why not FF IX, I like that game better.

I had also enjoyed FFIX better than FFVII.

Koei has other titles as well and besides, Dynasty Warriors is based off of Luo Guanzhong's Novel, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which is based off of actual Historical events which occurred in China circa 180AD - 260AD.

Capcom has other titles which they have, besides Megaman (Streetfighter franchise, Breath of Fire series... just to name a couple.).

Nintendo, true, I grant that Nintendo seems to be focusing on those game. But they've done greats in the past.

FF12 spinoffs and FF13 series... I'll leave my rant about them for later.
First off, I'm not sure what your point is. Square-Enix has several series and several other completely new games in the works.

Second, this whole polymorphic content thing is the result of RPGs being a relatively niche market in the RPG genre. A lot of people don't seem to realize that Square has to complete against games like Madden 200X or Halo 3. The amount of people who play RPGs is still not that large, when you look at the big picture. This is also why so many RPG-making companies have been having mergers in recent years.

Third, all companies milk their popular series. They are companies. There job is to do business and earn money.

And anyone who is complaining about FFVII being milked is too late to jump on the bandwagon. Square has been milking Final Fantasy since FF2. In the subsequent 20 years, we've had trading cards, toys, drinks, CDs, an anime series, a card game, remakes, anime sequels (Legend of the Crystal is a sequel to FFV), audio drama CDs, spinoffs, movies, posters, and any number of other products I'm forgetting.

But, God forbid they make a direct sequel to one of their games. That's just crossing the line. Give me a fuckin' break.

EDIT: To those people who are thinking making a direct sequel was a mistake (Example FF10 and 10-2) you're telling me it's ok to make 5 spin-offs, 1 full length movie, and an anime series, but making a single sequel is crossing the line? Hehe...

I think he was being sarcastic in that last line, Quantum.

Erm, if he/she was being sarcastic, sorry 'bout that. But for those that do think making a direct sequel was a mistake, then yeah, that post was for you.

Along with making a buck wich is a good reason for producing the series, i think people just want the story to continue. Some people may have actually liked the fact that you can follow these cats around thru diff adventures.

it would have made sense if they relased advent children after all the remakes. but maybe it was only after they saw what they could do in the movie with the music graphics new characters looks than they got a taste for some gameplay action to go with it.

i think remakes are good. plus it's not just the old gamers that play it. to a lot of people this stuff is new.

i only remember ff7 onwards. but some younger people have only played ffx and onwards.

maybe the HD directors cut thingy version of advent children will mark the end of the series remakes. or maybe not i dunno the dates for that movie.

I've completed all FF's apart from the Japanese FF2 and the new FF3 on the Nintendo DS. I found FF7 mediocre, and actually enjoyed FF10 more.

First off, I'm not sure what your point is. Square-Enix has several series and several other completely new games in the works.

True, yet they still go back to FFVII to be the cash cow.


Second, this whole polymorphic content thing is the result of RPGs being a relatively niche market in the RPG genre. A lot of people don't seem to realize that Square has to complete against games like Madden 200X or Halo 3. The amount of people who play RPGs is still not that large, when you look at the big picture. This is also why so many RPG-making companies have been having mergers in recent years.

There are a lot of companies out there which make all sorts of games. But comparing a company like Square (who makes RPG's) to one like EA Sports (Madden 200x) or Bungie (Halo3), is pretty stupid. They are three different genres of game, with their own market.


Third, all companies milk their popular series. They are companies. There job is to do business and earn money.

Of course that's why companies milk them... to make money. Still, I do know of a lot of people who have grown to dislike FFVII because of all the spin offs and sequels. I used to love FFVII, however I've grown to dislike it because of the excess amount of story to it now.


And anyone who is complaining about FFVII being milked is too late to jump on the bandwagon. Square has been milking Final Fantasy since FF2. In the subsequent 20 years, we've had trading cards, toys, drinks, CDs, an anime series, a card game, remakes, anime sequels (Legend of the Crystal is a sequel to FFV), audio drama CDs, spinoffs, movies, posters, and any number of other products I'm forgetting.

Final Fantasy VII seems to be the one, a lot of people consider to be the game which bought RPG's from their niche corner, into mainstream market. Hence forth, it has been milked excessively more, then the previous FF games, due to the fact that more and more people play it (moreso now, after 10 years since it was released). For the record, I haven't played FFVII for about 4 years.


But God forbid they make a direct sequel to one of their games. That's just crossing the line. Give me a fuckin' break.

Considering that Hironobu Sakaguchi, the creator of Final Fantasy and the one who saved Square from going bankrupt back in the 1980's, never wanted sequels to the FF games, that they were all stand alone games, which told a complete story.

And no, I won't give you a fuckin' break.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.


There are a lot of companies out there which make all sorts of games. But comparing a company like Square (who makes RPG's) to one like EA Sports (Madden 200x) or Bungie (Halo3), is pretty stupid. They are three different genres of game, with their own market.
No, they still have to compete against these games, regardless of genre. It's been stated a number of times, by CEOs from companies including Square, Enix, and Taito, that one of the reasons for this new style of marketing and all the mergers is because in the global market, Square has trouble competing with other developers.

It doesn't matter what the genres are. Money spent on one game is money taken away from another. Look at the box office, where comedy movies compete against dramas on a weekly basis.



Considering that Hironobu Sakaguchi, the creator of Final Fantasy and the one who saved Square from going bankrupt back in the 1980's, never wanted sequels to the FF games, that they were all stand alone games, which told a complete story.
No offense to the man, but he was also the one who LEFT them going bankrupt in the 90's, or have you forgotten about The Spirits Within?

And also, please explain Final Fantasy: Legend of the Crystals. It was a 3-episode OVA released in 1994, and was a sequel to Final Fantasy V.

They milk it as much as they want and I'd still buy 'em ;) Besides all I really want is a really good FF7 remake w/o a bunch of crap thrown into them

I retract the above statement. :mad: Way too much back story. Also this thread is dead. RIP.

The point isn't that it's not fair on other games. It's mostly the fan boys losing interest because one game didn't turn out as good as the other million, which ruins it. I personally am not bored of the FF7 story, but the games wasn't needed. FF7 honestly lost it's unique storyline because of the spin-offs.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.


No, they still have to compete against these games, regardless of genre. It's been stated a number of times, by CEOs from companies including Square, Enix, and Taito, that one of the reasons for this new style of marketing and all the mergers is because in the global market, Square has trouble competing with other developers.

But it's not just Square now is it? Ever game company out there has to compete with each other, to make a product which can compete with other companies products to survive.


It doesn't matter what the genres are. Money spent on one game is money taken away from another. Look at the box office, where comedy movies compete against dramas on a weekly basis.

How so? I know people who work in game stores and even they've commented on how some genre of game outsells the other. Personally, I am a fan of RPG's, but lately I've felt 'disenlightened' with some of the offerings available at this time


No offense to the man, but he was also the one who LEFT them going bankrupt in the 90's, or have you forgotten about The Spirits Within?

That may be so, but if he hadn't of created the Final Fantasy series when he did, then Square wouldn't of been around to make the mistake that was 'The Spirits Within'.


And also, please explain Final Fantasy: Legend of the Crystals. It was a 3-episode OVA released in 1994, and was a sequel to Final Fantasy V.

Did Sakaguchi have a hand in it? Sakaguchi had made it clear in the past, he never intended for any sequels to be made to any FF game. My own personal feeling about these sequels/prequels and such, is to leave the story (the sequel or whatever is based off of) alone, and focus on other titles.

For example, how many times have we gone back to Ivalice? FFT, FFTA and FFXII... true all set within different time frames, but still in the same world.


Originally posted by Quantum Link

The point isn't that it's not fair on other games. It's mostly the fan boys losing interest because one game didn't turn out as good as the other million, which ruins it. I personally am not bored of the FF7 story, but the games wasn't needed. FF7 honestly lost it's unique storyline because of the spin-offs.

The FFVII story has been diluted imo, to suit these sequels/prequels/whatever. The development team who worked on Dirge of Cerberus had nothing to do with FFVII, and imo 'screwed the pooch' so to speak, with the story about Vincent Valentine.

Don't get me wrong, I think FFVII is a good game... but has been done to death with all these 'extras'.

I reckon if a development team can stay true to the original, and not just use the name as a premise for some stupid spin-off that has nothing to do with the original storyline or universe, for that matter, it should be given a chance.
For that reason, I think AC was good. Also, I think if FFVII was re-made for the many people who have never gotten a chance to play the original, as long as it had the EXACT same storyline, and doesn't have some crazy development team, it'd be ok in my books.

I reckon if a development team can stay true to the original, and not just use the name as a premise for some stupid spin-off that has nothing to do with the original storyline or universe, for that matter, it should be given a chance.
For that reason, I think AC was good. Also, I think if FFVII was re-made for the many people who have never gotten a chance to play the original, as long as it had the EXACT same storyline, and doesn't have some crazy development team, it'd be ok in my books.

Okay, I've been holding this back for a while now, but I'm finally going to say it. This whole "remake it for people who've never gotten to play the original" idea is pure nonsense. People who haven't played it before can dredge up a copy of it. If S-E really wants people exposed to it, they can easily start printing it again and put an attractive price tag on it.

No, the real idea behind that mentality is the crazy fankids' desire for the game to start garnering more undeserved attention again, and the only way it's coming back to the forefront of gaming is through a remake. And you know what, it's best left dead. Gaming has moved on. The industry should not slow down or halt its advancement just because a segment of their customer base are retarded fankids who rooted themselves at a certain moment in the past and made themselves unable to appreciate how much better things are now.

Prak, shut the fuck up. What do you know, all cooped up in your room and exposing us all to your bullshit. Man, I know this is the internet but damn, all you ever do is help the flow of garbage. Reiterating: shut the fuck up.

Oh shit, Octiron's faggotry seems to be spreading.

Square-Enix has been very concentrated on the FFVII Compilation more than anything else-- Advent Children, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, and Last Order. FFVII is still one of my favorite videogames, but I think Square-Enix is going a little overboard with all this bloated FFVII fluff: an OVA, a mobile phone game, a shooter, a CG anime... in which they're all mediocre at best. The last thing I want is for FFVII to become another Star Wars or Disney franchise: series that have been milked up so much by the company that their original aura just dried up. I wish Square-Enix never began these FFVII sellout projects; it makes them look like some self-indulgent conglomerate.

Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.

Square as pushed it into a goofy nightmare, it gets to a point were it dosent make sense, FFVII should have ended in the begining...alltough i really like Advent Children, after all it's the best Japanese CG movie...all the others are just pointless and boring.

alltough i really like Advent Children, after all it's the best Japanese CG movie...all the others are just pointless and boring.


lol wot? What a stupefying maroon.

Lawl, I agree with Octiron.

*commit suicide*

lol wot? What a stupefying maroon.

need some english lessons there pal...?

Need to die in a fire pal?

Need to die in a fire pal?

ups...someone's not happy...

Okay, I've been holding this back for a while now, but I'm finally going to say it. This whole "remake it for people who've never gotten to play the original" idea is pure nonsense. People who haven't played it before can dredge up a copy of it. If S-E really wants people exposed to it, they can easily start printing it again and put an attractive price tag on it.


Ok, First of all, I haven't actually played FFVII, of course, I know the storyline and everything, but I haven't actually played it. Why? Because by the time I got into videogames, it was out of production, and for some reason "dredging up" a copy of FFVII is actually pretty complicated.
And finally, do you know what happens to games which are re-released without AT LEAST a graphical update? (with a few exceptions) They get slammed for being a lazy cash grab.
So basically, you're saying S-E making an UPDATED version of VII is a cash-grab, but just re-printing a game is perfectly fine?
I wonder where your logic went.

Because by the time I got into videogames, it was out of production, and for some reason "dredging up" a copy of FFVII is actually pretty complicated.

Ever hear of eBay? There's about 150 copies of the game up for auction right now. You can get a discs-only for 13 USD, or a sealed greatest hits copy for 90. Most of the usual "complete" copies (played, but in good condition with the book and case) are averaging 30 USD right now. I know this because I just took a whole two minutes to look. What I'm trying to say is that you're either not trying to find the game, wholly ignorant of the interweb in general, or you're just a minor who can't borrow the credit card from mom and dad.


And finally, do you know what happens to games which are re-released without AT LEAST a graphical update? (with a few exceptions) They get slammed for being a lazy cash grab.

Pretty much all the FF remakes on PSX would beg to differ. So would the Namco Museum games. So would, oh, EVERYTHING on Ninty's Virtual Console. Not to mention every single Greatest Hits and Platinum Hits game for PSX, PS2, and Xbox.


So basically, you're saying S-E making an UPDATED version of VII is a cash-grab, but just re-printing a game is perfectly fine?

Yeah, he didn't say that at all. Hooked on phonics, bro.

Pretty much exactly what I would have said, Cyan, albeit a bit less abrasive than I would have preferred, so I'll just take this opportunity to call the idiot in question a dumb cunt.

Lol, everyone's so opinionated about this topic...or, just bored.
I don't think everyone's going to completely agree, but can we say that Square should move on to something else?

Lol, everyone's so opinionated about this topic...or, just bored.
I don't think everyone's going to completely agree, but can we say that Square should move on to something else?

Yeah, like a Chrono Trigger remake!(Kidding!)

Let's look at another RPG that was released at around the same time as FF VII. Wild ARMs. Sony did a total overhaul of Wild ARMs while keeping with the main theme and story of the game. They even improved on the original in many ways. For example, one of the biggest complaints about the original was not being able to use Jane in the party so the developers made Jane a playable character in Code F.

So what's stopping S-E from overhauling FF VII and improving(THE ENDING, SQUARE, THE #$#@#ING ENDING!) on the original and making a really great product? Nothing that I can think of. . .unless they royally screw up and end up with another Chrono Cross, or just bad, *shudder* Dawn of Mana.

So what's stopping S-E from overhauling FF VII and improving(THE ENDING, SQUARE, THE #$#@#ING ENDING!) on the original and making a really great product? Nothing that I can think of. . .unless they royally screw up and end up with another Chrono Cross, or just bad, *shudder* Dawn of Mana.

If by 'improving', you mean changing, a lot of people are going to get very angry.

Because the game is very popular.And fans would like to know more about this story.Also, a 3D version can make the characters more vivid.

Fuck off with the remake of FFVII already. We've had enough of FFVII stuff. It should've stopped with AC, that piece of trash (lol Hynad c wut i did thar?).

Seriously. I like the game and all but fucking move on.

I also think there's way too much with the FFVII compilation. It was cool for awhile, but it just got to be too much after Before Crisis and Dirge of Cerberus.

I loved it when Final Fantasy VII Advent Children was out, was cool with the Before Crisis and DoC, but after hearing about the Crisis Core and rumors about the FFVII remake I was like "okay this is way too much".

If FFVII deserves all these compilations, don't all the original FFs do (FF-FFVI)? We all know FFX got a sequal.

FFVIII and FFIX also still needs something to come after that no?

While a remake of FFVII would be pretty and all, I'd rather get the original.

What I think deserves a re-release though, is Secret of Mana.

What really deserves a sequel/remake is Einhander. End of story.

I can think of some other great Squaresoft series that should get sequels.

Bushido Blade, Tobal and Chrono (the first was the best of the two, but both were impressive games in their own rights *** Duh! for stating the obvious! ^^).

What really deserves a sequel/remake is Einhander. End of story.

I don't know that game.

But what really deserves a compilation (no Parasite Eve 2 isn't enough :P) is Parasite Eve. End of the story XD.

I'd love to see Parasite Eve 3 or whatever. That series should have never been given up on.

But why stop milking a cow with infinite milk? Sick of the milk? Stop drinking it.

Well, form what I've heard,There's going to be a Parasite Eve 3, but it seems that is still not confirmed.

Square-Enix has been very concentrated on the FFVII Compilation more than anything else-- Advent Children, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, and Last Order. FFVII is still one of my favorite videogames, but I think Square-Enix is going a little overboard with all this bloated FFVII fluff: an OVA, a mobile phone game, a shooter, a CG anime... in which they're all mediocre at best. The last thing I want is for FFVII to become another Star Wars or Disney franchise: series that have been milked up so much by the company that their original aura just dried up. I wish Square-Enix never began these FFVII sellout projects; it makes them look like some self-indulgent conglomerate.

Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.

well no 1 will reject a ff7 pre/sequel. i am sure u know how bad ff7:DOC is.. but its still being liked. y? cos its part of ff7. but I would be glad if they can make ff8 sequel too :P I miss the nice CG of future buildings and the idea of ranks and the military school.

in ten years we will all be preordering FF 13-episode 13 on our wiistation 360's...i can hardly wait

and mario must be on like his 100th sequel too...after mario world, galaxy, and universe, then what? (dont say mario in time b/c im pretty sure he's done that)

But most of the Mario games have been good. Even most of the spin-offs. Mario Kart and Strikers, anyone? I'll take those over Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus anyday.

Mario's Hotel. WHOO!

It's all about the money...if they can milk any moola from a dead cow, they'll flog it as hard as they can until their arms fall off.

They know they can get people to buy their products, and with the fanbase apparently expanding due to the release of AC it looks like they'll be doing a whole lot more milking.

Mario's Hotel. WHOO!

That's why I said "most." ;)


It's all about the money...if they can milk any moola from a dead cow, they'll flog it as hard as they can until their arms fall off.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. It's pretty sad, actually, that fans are still drooling over this stuff. This isn't just FFVII bashing. The entire jRPG genre is stagnant, mostly thanks to Squeenix and FF fankids who masturbate all over everything with the right logo on the cover. I really wonder if FFXIII will help matters at all, but judging by who's working on it, I highly doubt it.

jRPG's might be stagnant, but im liking what bioware is doing with the genre (baldur's gate, neverwinter nights)

i wouldn't mind seeing a mass effect 2 or 3 either

Let them milk it!!!

In my opinion it's not exactly milked, They made two movies, two prequel games, and a sequel game to end ties with a popular optional charater. In my opinion it's not exactly milked until either Cloud is in Super Smash Brothers IV, or one of those crazy Soul Calibur 'We put the charater in because people like them (Cough: Starwars Charaters)' slots in Soul Calibur V.

Worst case scenario or potentally best case scenario: Final Fantasy Party. (You'd hate AND like it, at the same time.)

jRPG's might be stagnant, but im liking what bioware is doing with the genre (baldur's gate, neverwinter nights)

i wouldn't mind seeing a mass effect 2 or 3 either

Those aren't jRPG's. Those would be American RPG's. The real difference is the amount of control the player has over character development--both in terms of mechanics and at least to a degree, story-wise, as well. BioWare's games are quite possibly the only games keeping the entire genre out of the crapper.


In my opinion it's not exactly milked, They made two movies, two prequel games, and a sequel game to end ties with a popular optional charater.

I have a suggestion for you. Try having a clue what you're talking about before posting like that.

BioWare's games are quite possibly the only games keeping the entire genre out of the crapper.

Quite possibly eh? Lionhead Studios and Bethesda are easily on par with Bioware.

What I would love is a sequel to FFIX

Quite possibly eh? Lionhead Studios and Bethesda are easily on par with Bioware.

Dude, how could I forget Bethesda? Thank you for correcting me there; I needed that.

my whole point was that yes, jRPG's might be stagant, but other RPG's like bioware's are not

plus i know a lotta ppl are waiting for deus ex 3 from eidos, the original was pretty awesome

Dude, how could I forget Bethesda? Thank you for correcting me there; I needed that.

You're welcome. I'm waiting impatiently for Fallout 3 and Fable 2 so I'm not going to forget about those 2 developers.

FFVII was and is a great game, but to say the it's the best will always be an opinion, many great RPG's are out there besides FFVII. Regardless, I really enjoyed the game.

Square-Enix...nuff said. I don't agree with their over marketing of FFVII, they are destroying the dignity the game had. FFVII gained it's following because it introduced a new generation to the series and became very popular.

Still, the game was great. The characters may be lacking on depth, but still they were good characters. The music was great and the setting was good and while the storyline got a bit too complex (they were holes) overall it was still a great game.

FFVII's popularity basically set the bar so high that not even the FFVII itself could touch it, which is why it is highly criticized today.


Square-Enix, get off your ass and come up with some fresh ideas. Quit destroying FFVII and get back to the basics.

They're not milking it too much. It took them 9 years to release a FF7 game after the original. The only things I am counting so far in the Compilation are The Original, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core. Forget about random appearances in fighting games and Kingdom Hearts. I also don't care about the Cellphone game or the Anime.

The facts it that you're only saying that they're milking it too much because it's a final fantasy game. We're supposed to get new characters and new worlds with each new game, right? You wouldn't have the same opinion about games like Devil May Cry, Resident Evil, or God of War where the same character(s) appear in each one.

Let them milk it - as long as they make good prequels, sequels, movies, or whatever. Dirge of Cerberus didn't ruin anything either. The only thing wrong with that game was the gameplay. The story and characters were great. It was basically like watching another Advent Children, with some horrible gameplay thrown in between scenes.

Dirge of Cerberus didn't ruin anything either. The only thing wrong with that game was the gameplay.

:rolleyes:

The important part is that Dirge had good characters and a great story, and it was great watching all of the cutscenes - which is what I already said but apparently I need to repeat myself for the one-line quoters with the rolleyes at the ready.

I just downloaded the FMVs and never bothered to play the game - and I'm glad I did. They would have been better off actually just making it into another CGI film instead of an actual game. It's still an acceptable entry in the compilation. The reviews for the game were always something along the lines of Story: 9.0, Design: 9.0 etc., then Gameplay: 3.5.

The important part is that Dirge had good characters and a great story, and it was great watching all of the cutscenes - which is what I already said but apparently I need to repeat myself for the one-line quoters with the rolleyes at the ready.

You are quite an idiot.

One day you will remove the fanboy goggles from your eyes and realize I'm saying this for your own good. Until then, you may dislike me for it, but I must insist that you prostrate yourself and beg my forgiveness when you finally grow a brain.

You are quite an idiot..


I lol'd

:rolleyes:

Square-Enix has been very concentrated on the FFVII Compilation more than anything else-- Advent Children, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, and Last Order. FFVII is still one of my favorite videogames, but I think Square-Enix is going a little overboard with all this bloated FFVII fluff: an OVA, a mobile phone game, a shooter, a CG anime... in which they're all mediocre at best. The last thing I want is for FFVII to become another Star Wars or Disney franchise: series that have been milked up so much by the company that their original aura just dried up. I wish Square-Enix never began these FFVII sellout projects; it makes them look like some self-indulgent conglomerate.

Some of the greatest games have never needed sequels, remakes, or commercialized off-shoot mediums to keep their respective place in history, such as NiGHTS Into Dreams, Vagrant Story, and StarCraft. FFVII should've been, and was, one of those. I say leave the classics alone.

Yeah I agree. But it is interesting how Square-Enix has expanded on the FFVII universe.

Yeah I agree. But it is interesting how Square-Enix has expanded on the FFVII universe.

It's interesting but DoC would have better off never made.

Yeah I agree. But it is interesting how Square-Enix has expanded on the FFVII universe.

That's easy to do for just about every fictional world so it's neither new nor original. It's how they did it that pisses me off...I hate copy pasta.
They went ahead and took loads of premises and concepts that worked in the past and twisted them only to the point where the fanboys/girls would be the only ones to go home and masturbate to the "epicness" of the lastest installment of the FFVII shitiverse.
I have no problem with anybody expanding any universe as long as they show some feasible effort to create a new, genuine experience.

I also do not hate FFVII, I actually love it for being an excellent example of a way to properly execute the release of a game while at the same time not being able to equal game quality with sales numbers. For me, FFVII hailed in a new era, an era of "gamers" that could not play a game without a guide (official or not).
The other day, I saw a girl reading through a guide for FFTA and I said to myself, "A guide for a tactics game?...What the hell is this coming to?! I'll bet the next thing I'll see is a fucking guide for Chessmaster!"

@ MMtech: The reason why you were quoted on one line was because of this:
Dirge of Cerberus didn't ruin anything either. The only thing wrong with that game was the gameplay.
In case you didn't pick up what KNegative did when you were quoted, I'll explain.
Games are meant to be played, so if there's a problem with the gameplay then why should the game be played to begin with?

What surprises me the most is that there is no game where the main character is actually, CLOUD!!!!

What surprises me the most is that there is no game where the main character is actually, CLOUD!!!!

That's because the story didnt always revolve around CLOUD in the game. If you remember there was other characters. Yes he was the Main but yet so were a few others. Now the Story may have been Centered around CLOUD. But no more. From the looks of things Cloud's story has pretty much been explained. Well enough and over again I must say. I don't know how they could get anymore clear on that. The other characters are pretty much left in the dark. Fans want more VII. So they give what they can. Seriously how many times can you bring Sephiroth back to life jus to kill him again?

If it continues it'll jus be like DBZ "Hey Goku wanna hava bbq?" "Ok hahahaha"
-ppl come, they fight, then another bbq-

Get over it and move on.

You misunderstand. I don't give a damn about Final Fantasy VII, its characters or any of its sequels. But as I said, its surprising that there is no sequel with Cloud, a character that has been considered an icon from the fanboys for more than 10 years. Surely, I believe that every VII fan would want to see what happened to him after the events of VII. And in a better presentation than Advent Children.

Beginning Rant...




























I could once again comment here... but really what's the damn point? Fanboys/girls are gonna keep spewing forth their opinions and views and try to state them as facts as to why SE HAS to continue to play around with a game some people consider to be SE's masterpiece of gaming.

My own personal opinions about this have been stated not just in this thread but in others on this forum about FFVII.

FFVII was a good game for it's time and I freely admit I was a fan of it. Now, I've moved on from it and enjoy other rpg's... Yes, there ARE other RPG's out there, not just FFVII.

Instead of trying to promote FFVII into Martyrdom, take a break from that and either play another rpg (Computer or even the old tabletop rpg's... that is IF anyone can remember the old AD&D games... ) or and perhaps even better, stop wasting your lives sitting in front of the tv playing a game which is eleven years old now (and wasting your parents electricity) and go and live your life IN THE REAL DAMN WORLD!!!











End Rant...

While there is merit in what you say, I for one have found that the real world is highly overrated. Too boring and not enough fanciful experiences happening for my taste. If it is a person's wish to find solace in a mythical gaming worlds, or seek kinship with stories and characters that do not truly exist, then who are we to judge? People have done stranger things in this bizarre world, as we have all witnessed.

And while I do think SE is going a bit overboard with FF7, it still remains one of my favorite games, and for a variety of reasons that I'll not mention, as we all know of the game's strong points by now.

Going even further, what is eleven years? So what?...Does it matter if it is five, ten, fifteen years? Hell no, I still play the original Zelda and Mario for the SNES or even the NES for that matter, for the simple reason that they are classic. And like it or not, a classic is still a classic, no matter how much time has gone by, and there is no harm in taking a trip back in time by playing it and enjoying it anew. If you don't believe me, take a look at some famous musical scores or books that are decades or even centuries old. People still delight in hearing these songs and reading these tales long after they had come out. Games are no different; they are meant to be enjoyed, no matter how much time has passed, obsolete or not.

These spin-off FF7 games are a bit over the top however, and I think the folks at SE need to step back and stretch a bit. Give us some breathing room y'all!

Though I cannot deny that I personally would love to see them remake FF7 eventually, provided of course they don't butcher it horribly. I am, of course, still in favor of new games being created, certainly, but there are something that are meant to be done. That is one of them, or so I personally think.

Even more, Advent Children gave me the one thing that I've wanted to see for a long time, ever since playing FF7. A true fight between Cloud and Sephiroth, which the original game lacked. It had the three final bosses, plus Cloud vs. Sephiroth in that token little battle, but that wasn't a real fight. Not with them leaping about with superb swordplay, to the remastered One Winged Angle. Forget about it. I cannot stress enough how much that whole sequence tickled me silly. The story was a bit eccentric and left me more than slightly puzzled, but all I wanted was to see Sephiroth kicking ass in real time, like never before. And in the end, isn't that what we all want?

Naturally, there is always going to be the debate of whether some games, old or new, should have remakes or sequels. Sometimes there is no question that things should have been left well enough alone, but others that not only should have a sequel/remake but needed to be continued. I have several things in mind when I say this, but I'll leave it at that, unless someone wants me to elaborate, which I doubt.

So, in conclusion, I'd agree that SE is been going a bit berserk these days, and needs to put FF7 on the shelf for a bit, and settle down with other newer ideas. But just because its on the shelf doesn't make it forgotten, and doesn't exclude it from the future, and bringing it once again into the now.

But until that future is now, yes, let us play the other RPG's out there, including the old AD&D games, which I still play all the time. There is much to learn by rolling dice, says I. Until next time people, good luck and good hunting...


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First of all, I'd like to apologize for this lengthy post. When I started typing a response, I got a little carried away... my bad...


Originally posted by Musical Horse...

While there is merit in what you say, I for one have found that the real world is highly overrated. Too boring and not enough fanciful experiences happening for my taste. If it is a person's wish to find solace in a mythical gaming worlds, or seek kinship with stories and characters that do not truly exist, then who are we to judge? People have done stranger things in this bizarre world, as we have all witnessed.

The real world is what each of us make of it. If it's too boring or not enough fanciful, then it's up to you to make it that way. I have no problems if people want to spend all their time, 24/7 playing games as it is their god given choice to do so, but they have to realise that ultimately it's just a game, and that the real world is there waiting for them after they turn the power off to the console.


And while I do think SE is going a bit overboard with FF7, it still remains one of my favorite games, and for a variety of reasons that I'll not mention, as we all know of the game's strong points by now.

I freely admit, that FFVII was the second game I ever bought for my PSX (The first being Transformers : Beast Wars... which I regret to my eternal damnation), and I did enjoy it. However, after all this time, there are other rpg's available that I personally find to be just as enjoyable, if not moreso, than FFVII.


Going even further, what is eleven years? So what?...Does it matter if it is five, ten, fifteen years? Hell no, I still play the original Zelda and Mario for the SNES or even the NES for that matter, for the simple reason that they are classic. And like it or not, a classic is still a classic, no matter how much time has gone by, and there is no harm in taking a trip back in time by playing it and enjoying it anew. If you don't believe me, take a look at some famous musical scores or books that are decades or even centuries old. People still delight in hearing these songs and reading these tales long after they had come out. Games are no different; they are meant to be enjoyed, no matter how much time has passed, obsolete or not.

Being a classic is one thing, but when people start raving on and on about a game, and the reasons they state for it are something along the lines of Durrr... this game is tha best. If youse don't like it youse an idjit or something similar, that is what pisses me off. If people state their reasons as to why they like it, in a clear manner, then maybe those people would be taken a little more seriously, instead of being denoted as fanboys.

Besides, what makes a game a classic nowadays anyway? Total of sales? Cult following? The convergence of the stars and the moon which will show the way to Nirvana? The word 'classic' is being given to a lot of games nowadays, and in some cases just for the hell of it.

In response to the following comment If you don't believe me, take a look at some famous musical scores or books that are decades or even centuries old., that is true, but also take into account that these are a different form of entertainment. Personally, I am a fan of the chinese novella, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which was written back in 1522 CE, though there are prefaces which date back to 1494, and bears a close relation to illustrated narrative entitled San-kuo chih p'ing-hua (Plain Tales from the San-kuo Chih). Both of those works can be traced back to the San-kuo Chih (Chronicled by the historian Ch'en Shou (233-297CE)).

Sorry... didn't mean to go into a history lesson... my bad... back to topic...


These spin-off FF7 games are a bit over the top however, and I think the folks at SE need to step back and stretch a bit. Give us some breathing room y'all!

Though I cannot deny that I personally would love to see them remake FF7 eventually, provided of course they don't butcher it horribly. I am, of course, still in favor of new games being created, certainly, but there are something that are meant to be done. That is one of them, or so I personally think.

It seems to me, that SE has decided to go into the remake business... what with all the remakes of the earlier FF's, as well as spin offs and the like. Personally I think SE should of continued along with newer FF's, which are complete as they are. But then, they DID fire Hironobu Sakaguchi, who saved Square from going bankrupt back in the 80's by creating Final Fantasy in the first place. As it is about a FFVII remake... I'll get back to this later in this post.


Even more, Advent Children gave me the one thing that I've wanted to see for a long time, ever since playing FF7. A true fight between Cloud and Sephiroth, which the original game lacked. It had the three final bosses, plus Cloud vs. Sephiroth in that token little battle, but that wasn't a real fight. Not with them leaping about with superb swordplay, to the remastered One Winged Angle. Forget about it. I cannot stress enough how much that whole sequence tickled me silly. The story was a bit eccentric and left me more than slightly puzzled, but all I wanted was to see Sephiroth kicking ass in real time, like never before. And in the end, isn't that what we all want?

Advent Children was alright imo, but personally I think SE should've just left FFVII alone and done with. Since when did Cloud gain the ability to fly? True it was choreographed quite well, and in some way reminded me of the fight scenes from movies like The Stormriders, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon etc, it was a little too drawn out. The remastered version of One Winged Angel was alright, but after hearing my cousin play his copy of it over and over and over... I'm wishing Advent Children was NEVER made in the first place.


Naturally, there is always going to be the debate of whether some games, old or new, should have remakes or sequels. Sometimes there is no question that things should have been left well enough alone, but others that not only should have a sequel/remake but needed to be continued. I have several things in mind when I say this, but I'll leave it at that, unless someone wants me to elaborate, which I doubt.

With remakes and sequels, there's always a bit of tricky ground surrounding them. In the case of sequels, the development team is under a lot of pressure to make a game not just worthy of being a sequel to a previous game, but also have to find ways to have it eclipse it's predecessor while still maintaining the flow of the story and character development from before. In some cases that can be down quite well, while in others, it flops big time.

Remakes... no offense intended but that really pisses me off, and it seems to me, that all this talk of a FFVII remake sprung up due to the FFVII Technical Demo for the PS3. Thing is, there was a similar tech demo of FFVIII released for the PS2 and that inspired talk of a remake of FFVIII. Yet that talk died down rather quickly, while the FFVII tech demo has spawned more and more people stating they have proven 'facts' that FFVII is going to be remade. Even if it was remade for the PS3 or whatever console they want to put it on (Or whichever console company pays them the most $$$), I can pretty much adamantly say here and now, that I would NOT buy it.


So, in conclusion, I'd agree that SE is been going a bit berserk these days, and needs to put FF7 on the shelf for a bit, and settle down with other newer ideas. But just because its on the shelf doesn't make it forgotten, and doesn't exclude it from the future, and bringing it once again into the now.

But can SE survive? SE has pretty much thrown all their hopes behind the FF series to get them afloat, while other companies have not just their flagship title games, but others to help support them. If SE did make a remake of FFVII... true they'd get a huge influx of capital from the fans... but what then? Wait until another console comes out and release another remake of FFVII? SE has already had us go to the world of Ivalice three times now (FFT, FFTA and FFXII), and though they were set in different time frames, it was still the same world, with similar races and the like.

Eventually though, the time will come for SE to leave FFVII behind and I think it'd be in their best interests to leave FFVII now, while it's still causing all this interest/debate/whatnot. I mean, in the year 2050... SE or whatever they're called releases another version of FFVII, with full sensory immersion software allowing the player to be right there besides Cloud and the others against Sephiroth?

As my favourite entity from Star Trek The Next Generation said in the final episode....

�All good things... must come to an end�

But then, they DID fire Hironobu Sakaguchi, who saved Square from going bankrupt back in the 80's by creating Final Fantasy in the first place.

Correction: Sakaguchi wasn't fired by S-E. He LEFT.

What surprises me the most is that there is no game where the main character is actually, CLOUD!!!!

Even the main character wasn't even Cloud in the original. . . he was mostly just a Cloud version of Zack

Even the main character wasn't even Cloud in the original. . . he was mostly just a Cloud version of Zack

What the hell is that fantard bullshit.
The character being mind-controlled by Jenova isn't Zack, but Cloud. The character that grows out of his delusions once he falls into the lifestream isn't Zack, but Cloud, the character beating the crap out of Sephiroth in the last battle isn't Zack, but Cloud, etc...

Just because Cloud lied about his past life and forged it based on his friend Zack doesn't mean he wasn't the main character.

Even the main character wasn't even Cloud in the original. . . he was mostly just a Cloud version of Zack

lol

(Computer or even the old tabletop rpg's... that is IF anyone can remember the old AD&D games... )

if it makes you feel better, I do.


Anyway, I agree that they are overmilking VII, I mean come on, other games that were a hell of a lot better in my opinion deserve to have some kind of a sequel or a movie (i.e. IX or VIII, hell i wouldnt mind a few 3D remakes of V, III, or a few others.) SE's finest work is NOT VII, that was just the next step into making better games, IMO.

Hmm, I must admit, you make a fierce debating partner Xiahou Dun, if that is your real name. You answered all of my concerns with a valid explanation of your own ideas and thoughts, and for that I salute you. Not many take the time to put forth as much effort as you do. But alas, there are a few points which I feel I must clarify, just for the sake of the topic. So, as they say, here we go again...

Firstly, I stand behind what I said earlier about the real world. As you claimed, it was up to us to make the experience our own. True enough, but again, the sort of fanciful things I was speaking of are things that can never truly happen. At least in this stage of human evolution. Things like magic, flying, super-heroes, mythical and legendary creatures, things of that nature.

I personally know people that are so dependent on games, movies, books, and other modes of story-telling, that they hardly realize the outside world exists. A world with constant wars, financial miseries, economic strife, and so forth, and while some may see that as sad, one cannot deny that in such a state, they are truly happy. They do not acknowledge the outside world, are not slaves to its grind, and live their lives in places where the evils of this world do not mingle with the evil of others. Such freedom is quite tantalizing.

Some say we're captives to the real world. I say, only if we let ourselves be. We have a choice to make our own personal lives whatever we want, without the troubles and pitfalls of reality. Will this attitude bring trouble? More than likely, but a person's ultimate goal in this world is to find happiness, and if that means rejecting the real world, then so be it. Try it sometime; you may be surprised.

Secondly, as I said, I too am aware that there is more than just one RPG in the world, FF7. I play any new RPG that comes out, as do others. All I was saying was we play other RPG's, but never forget that FF7 was still a marvel of its time, and mustn't be forgotten.

Which brings me back to the topic of it being a classic. Understand that I fully support you when you said that people would rant and rave about a game, but not expressing as to why, and mindlessly tuning out any possible criticism against it. That too bugs the crap out of me...they just need to say its good, possibly great, and leave things at that.

Of course back to the subject of its timelessness, the term classic is up for grabs...What makes a game, or anything for that matter, a classic? We have our own speculations. I see games that weren't deserving of the title classic was being called such, and that also irritated me.

What is a classic? Here is my assessment. A classic is not how many sales the game makes, not how much people fall in love with and worship a game, nor is it the ability to spawn off several smaller pieces of the original whole. A classic is a game that comes out, and defies the imagination, it has all elements that make a game stand out. A driven story, a dynamic list of interesting and diverse characters (both good and evil), a fitting and bold soundtrack, a unexpected plot twist or two...in other words, a story that is so powerful that it envelops you in and guides you to tend with a undeniable sense of satisfaction at the end.

A game that can have the player establish rapport with the characters, falling into the story and feelings kinship with them, where the borders between reality and imagination cease to be...That is a classic game. As you mentioned, too many games are being give that title unjustly these days. There is a mere handful of games...ever...that have deserved to be named classics.

And going back to the other things classic, (And sorry for saying the world Classic so much), books and music are different, but only in the way they are preformed. In many ways, they are no different than games, a means for telling a story. True enough they are not delivered in the same way, but the essential point that they are stories being told from long in the past is proof that classics should be honored and enjoyed, years and years after they had first arrived.

And you needn't worry about the history lesson you mentioned earlier. I actually have the books Romance of Three Kingdoms as well. And not the shorten three hundred page version, I'm talking about the 1,200 page version with Chinese style illustrations, and historical notes and all that. It even has a nice musty sort of smell. I'm quite the ROTK fan myself, and I suppose I owe it to the ROTK game, Dynasty Warriors 4, which is where I picked up the series and found myself intrigued by it.

Anywho, moving on...Advent Children...In a sense, SE had no choice but to make it, as fans, the aforementioned crazy mindless masses, demanded a remake to FF7, but instead of complying, SE made AC instead. Which I too was interested in seeing, I'll not deny.

I could go into a defensive rant about where and how AC had good parts, but I needn't, that's not what this response is all about, though I must note...With giant monsters shooting blue fireballs, long-haired villains coming back to life, a talking red dog, and a million other wacky things going on, the fact that Cloud can perform excessive jumps that seems like flying doesn't seem quite so peculiar by comparison.

As for the remake, yes I know about the tech-demo for FF7, I've seen it many times myself. Again, I won't deny that I would indeed be delighted to hear of a remake, and seeing that demo no doubt inspired me to get a little giddy in the head.

But even though I'm not one of those die-hard fans myself, look at it from their perspective...They've played FF7 for ten years, enjoying it even now; AC comes out along with other mini-games, and grow to love it even more. They want a remake so much that they're perhaps contemplating storming SE headquarters. And suddenly this visually stunning demo comes out, advertising the PS3. They finally see what they've wanted for years and years...There is no way they'll be quiet about it, not with all the other games that SE released regarding FF7. SE has stirred up the cobra's den, and no way the snakes are going back to sleep now.

In a way, it is understandable and rather nasty of SE to do that, and then have no intension's of remaking the game, as they claim. And I can understand how those, yourself included as you said, wouldn't be interested in the remake. I know others who share the sentiment. Though I have a suspicion that those that do want a remake outweigh the ones who don't, and as the world has shown us, the majority's wants are the ones met.

Other classical things, books and music, (once again), have been altered with the coming of the future, remastered and redone. Were they all good? Of course not. Many sucked outright. But not all. Would we deny ourselves that one good things, a things that could possible be a gemstone in disguise, just to avoid the perpetual avalanche of crap that comes with it? If we did that, we might be without some of our most illustrious works of art. No reason to do it now.

And I still stand by my belief that for now, SE should put the FF franchise on hold, as I think SE can survive, even without FF series. I've played other games of theirs. Not overwhelmingly awesome, but passable and entertaining. If someone could come up with a series as memorable and powerful as FF, it can be done again, one must merely keep hoping and keep trying.

So in conclusion, (once again), yes, I think SE needs to put FF7 and maybe FF as whole down for a bit, and try and work on something new, but that in no way suggests that they should forget about it. If it is in the destiny of FF7 to become a virtual reality game in the future of forty-two years, then so be it. We'll all be old or dead by then, so what would we care? Why should only we enjoy the original, and deny other generations the same privilege?

And my view of matters in this, as you quoted...

"All good things must come to an end..."

My thoughts? Only if you let them. Nothing has to end as far as I'm concerned. If we don't want to let go, than you'd better believe we ain't giving up without a damn good fight. And furthermore as the human race has shown, we and our culture can and will survive. After all, we've weathered wars, plagues, nuclear bombs, George W. Bush...hell we can handle just about everything life throws at us.

Perhaps, in the grandest scheme of things out in the universe, there is an actual end, one day perhaps millions or billions of years down the road. But why worry about that now?
...
...
...
I seem to be getting off topic again. So sorry. Anyway, I'll finish now with a favorite quote of my own...

"I will...never be a memory." Amen to that brother...

(http://www.ff-fan.com)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? (http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest)
Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

Can i submit it please musical horse??

I seem to be getting off topic again. So sorry. Anyway, I'll finish now with a favorite quote of my own...

"I will...never be a memory."


Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.

Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.

uhmmm, everyone is entitled to their opinions. And is it just me or are you threatening him/her? cause uh, usually when someone says "when your ass is grass" some form of a beating is about to go down. You two, keep debating. Its hilariously educational. Loving it.

Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.

...

































































































I lol'ed :laugh:

Oh yes you will. When your ass is grass you will be a fucking memory, so deal with it and stop with the delusions.

Why must you take things so seriously, I wonder. I was merely making a point, and you recoil as if I directly insulted you. Perhaps you should be a tad less sensitive, lest you look like an overbearing namby-pamby.

Furthermore, what exactly did I say that you would classify as a delusion? Hmm? I simply made a sophisticated argument with the esteemed Xiahou Dun, with valid points of my own opinion about our conversations. I fail to see that as being called a delusion.

And you got so moody about the AC quote. Spoken like a true literalist I suppose. Oh my god, says you, lets take everything we see on the Internet seriously! Tsk tsk...

Two words of advice to you...First you may want to relax a bit, lest that future stomach ulcer of yours starts acting up on you. And two...repeat first piece of advice. Being uptight is no fun, so do yourself a favor and grow a sense of humor. Thanks so much.

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Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

Sorry all... this post is gonna be even longer than my other... and for that I apologize...

Round Two... Ding Ding...


Originally posted by Musical Horse

Firstly, I stand behind what I said earlier about the real world. As you claimed, it was up to us to make the experience our own. True enough, but again, the sort of fanciful things I was speaking of are things that can never truly happen. At least in this stage of human evolution. Things like magic, flying, super-heroes, mythical and legendary creatures, things of that nature.

I personally know people that are so dependent on games, movies, books, and other modes of story-telling, that they hardly realize the outside world exists. A world with constant wars, financial miseries, economic strife, and so forth, and while some may see that as sad, one cannot deny that in such a state, they are truly happy. They do not acknowledge the outside world, are not slaves to its grind, and live their lives in places where the evils of this world do not mingle with the evil of others. Such freedom is quite tantalizing.

Some say we're captives to the real world. I say, only if we let ourselves be. We have a choice to make our own personal lives whatever we want, without the troubles and pitfalls of reality. Will this attitude bring trouble? More than likely, but a person's ultimate goal in this world is to find happiness, and if that means rejecting the real world, then so be it. Try it sometime; you may be surprised.

ok... let's break this down... first of all, the real world exists and is all around us. Playing video games can be a form of escapism (I know I've used FFXI in this form), but utlimately you can't play a videogame 24/7. Doing so, not only destroys some forms of relationships in real life (family, friends, spouse, children etc), but can lead to obsessive paranoia to the point that the videogame CAN become your REAL WORLD. This has mainly happened with MMO's... but I've seen my cousin, play GTA SA to the exclusion of anything else.

Regarding things like magic, mythical and legendary creatures and the like.. let's break this down as well. Firstly, Magic. A lot of things which were considered to be magic a century ago can be explained due to science nowadays. As a friend of mine once said (and I have no idea where he got this from), Science can explain a lot, and what isn't covered in the realm of Science can be construed as Magic. Magic is just unexplained Science. Personally I think he took a few too many blows to the head when he was younger, but meh.

Mythical and legendary creatures... Things like dragons for example, do have real world representatives. The Kimodo Dragon for example. The thing with myths and legends, some can only be taken at face value, and are usually based on something which did exist in real life, but over time have lost the actual representation of what they were and have, over the course of being retold, discrepancies have taken a life of their own, and altered the truth. But then truth is usually in the eye of the beholder.

In regards to your final paragraph, captives to the real world, that may be true from a certain point of view. We all were born with the ability to choose what we want to do with our lives. If people choose to spend their lives playing videogames, then god bless you. Just realise, that even though you choose to do so, or in your own words reject the real world, there are others around you and to not forget about them either. Try it sometime; you may be surprised., I have tried it... after my partner of eight years passed away, I became totally absorbed in playing videogames, reading novellas and the like. Eventually, I had to face my daemons and come back.


Secondly, as I said, I too am aware that there is more than just one RPG in the world, FF7. I play any new RPG that comes out, as do others. All I was saying was we play other RPG's, but never forget that FF7 was still a marvel of its time, and mustn't be forgotten.

There were other rpg's which were released before FFVII, Konami's Suikoden and Vandal Hearts are two of my personal favourites. While I admit, that FFVII DID have a certain something which made it a good game. Nowadays, it is eclipsed by rpg's of today, while also at the same time it STILL eclipses some of them. I never stated it should be forgotten, but with how some people still revere it as if it's the second coming of christ, and verbally abuse others for playing other rpg's and in some cases saying that another rpg is better than FFVII, those people I can not tolerate one little bit.

Yes, I realise that sounds like I'm a hypocrite, bagging FFVII and going on about other rpg's. As I said before I was a fan of FFVII, and for a long time I did consider FFVII to be my favourite game. Then, I found other rpg's, which drew me into them more, than FFVII did.


Which brings me back to the topic of it being a classic. Understand that I fully support you when you said that people would rant and rave about a game, but not expressing as to why, and mindlessly tuning out any possible criticism against it. That too bugs the crap out of me...they just need to say its good, possibly great, and leave things at that.

Of course back to the subject of its timelessness, the term classic is up for grabs...What makes a game, or anything for that matter, a classic? We have our own speculations. I see games that weren't deserving of the title classic was being called such, and that also irritated me.

What is a classic? Here is my assessment. A classic is not how many sales the game makes, not how much people fall in love with and worship a game, nor is it the ability to spawn off several smaller pieces of the original whole. A classic is a game that comes out, and defies the imagination, it has all elements that make a game stand out. A driven story, a dynamic list of interesting and diverse characters (both good and evil), a fitting and bold soundtrack, a unexpected plot twist or two...in other words, a story that is so powerful that it envelops you in and guides you to tend with a undeniable sense of satisfaction at the end.

A game that can have the player establish rapport with the characters, falling into the story and feelings kinship with them, where the borders between reality and imagination cease to be...That is a classic game. As you mentioned, too many games are being give that title unjustly these days. There is a mere handful of games...ever...that have deserved to be named classics.

And going back to the other things classic, (And sorry for saying the world Classic so much), books and music are different, but only in the way they are preformed. In many ways, they are no different than games, a means for telling a story. True enough they are not delivered in the same way, but the essential point that they are stories being told from long in the past is proof that classics should be honored and enjoyed, years and years after they had first arrived.

I admit I agree with some of what you say here. But that doesn't mean that everyone else does. Regarding the gaming industry and 'classic', Sony has it's 'classic' collection under the title of the 'Platinum Series' here in Australia. From what I understand, this series of games are given this title, due to overwhelming sales figures, reviews and the like. In this form, the world 'classic' loses much of what it stands for.



And you needn't worry about the history lesson you mentioned earlier. I actually have the books Romance of Three Kingdoms as well. And not the shorten three hundred page version, I'm talking about the 1,200 page version with Chinese style illustrations, and historical notes and all that. It even has a nice musty sort of smell. I'm quite the ROTK fan myself, and I suppose I owe it to the ROTK game, Dynasty Warriors 4, which is where I picked up the series and found myself intrigued by it.

I have the 2 volume set, written by Lo Kuan-chung, translated by C.H. Brewitt-Taylor and is about 120 chapters in length. Koei's Dynasty Warrior series was loosely inspired by the novella, yet from what I've heard the latest version of DW has changed a lot from the early versions. I've been a fan of the game since Dynasty Warriors 2 (Shin Sangoku Musou).



Anywho, moving on...Advent Children...In a sense, SE had no choice but to make it, as fans, the aforementioned crazy mindless masses, demanded a remake to FF7, but instead of complying, SE made AC instead. Which I too was interested in seeing, I'll not deny.

I could go into a defensive rant about where and how AC had good parts, but I needn't, that's not what this response is all about, though I must note...With giant monsters shooting blue fireballs, long-haired villains coming back to life, a talking red dog, and a million other wacky things going on, the fact that Cloud can perform excessive jumps that seems like flying doesn't seem quite so peculiar by comparison.

I was mildly interested in seeing Advent Children, but to be honest, I wasn't caught up in the hype regarding it. It seemed in some places to rewrite what was already stated in the game in some regard, but meh... that's something which happens, when you take one form of medium and transfer it to another... you do get some changes here and there. Advent Children is a sequel to FFVII, which some people wanted. My own personal feelings regarding sequels and such... FFVII was complete as it was, at least to me that is. That's what it boils down to, what each individual wants and what they perceive.



As for the remake, yes I know about the tech-demo for FF7, I've seen it many times myself. Again, I won't deny that I would indeed be delighted to hear of a remake, and seeing that demo no doubt inspired me to get a little giddy in the head.

But even though I'm not one of those die-hard fans myself, look at it from their perspective...They've played FF7 for ten years, enjoying it even now; AC comes out along with other mini-games, and grow to love it even more. They want a remake so much that they're perhaps contemplating storming SE headquarters. And suddenly this visually stunning demo comes out, advertising the PS3. They finally see what they've wanted for years and years...There is no way they'll be quiet about it, not with all the other games that SE released regarding FF7. SE has stirred up the cobra's den, and no way the snakes are going back to sleep now.

In a way, it is understandable and rather nasty of SE to do that, and then have no intension's of remaking the game, as they claim. And I can understand how those, yourself included as you said, wouldn't be interested in the remake. I know others who share the sentiment. Though I have a suspicion that those that do want a remake outweigh the ones who don't, and as the world has shown us, the majority's wants are the ones met.

The tech demo, as I understand it, were to demonstrate the graphical capabilities of the PS3. The team who worked on it, have moved on to other projects within SE. True, when it came out, a lot of people, on many forums, were ecstatic as a lot of them thought it was a actual trailer for a remake of FFVII for the PS3. If I was asked, back in 2000 if I wanted a remake of FFVII, in all honesty I'd probably say YES!. Now, I'd rather SE never remade it, but that's just my personal preference.



Other classical things, books and music, (once again), have been altered with the coming of the future, remastered and redone. Were they all good? Of course not. Many sucked outright. But not all. Would we deny ourselves that one good things, a things that could possible be a gemstone in disguise, just to avoid the perpetual avalanche of crap that comes with it? If we did that, we might be without some of our most illustrious works of art. No reason to do it now.

And I still stand by my belief that for now, SE should put the FF franchise on hold, as I think SE can survive, even without FF series. I've played other games of theirs. Not overwhelmingly awesome, but passable and entertaining. If someone could come up with a series as memorable and powerful as FF, it can be done again, one must merely keep hoping and keep trying.

So in conclusion, (once again), yes, I think SE needs to put FF7 and maybe FF as whole down for a bit, and try and work on something new, but that in no way suggests that they should forget about it. If it is in the destiny of FF7 to become a virtual reality game in the future of forty-two years, then so be it. We'll all be old or dead by then, so what would we care? Why should only we enjoy the original, and deny other generations the same privilege?

SE has worked on other games, the Front Mission series, Bushido Blade, Vagrant Story just to name a few and they've even tried their hands at a go-kartesque racing game with Chocobo Racing. While each has been, or hasn't been successful on their own, they haven't amassed as much capital and reputation for SE than their flagship title Final Fantasy.

Who's to say that the future generations will be interested in playing a FFVII? By then, if SE is still around and making FF's... they could be up to FFXXXVII or something ridiculous by then. There are people I know, who have played FFVII, and they actually hate and despise it, preferring to play either earlier FF's, or other games entirely.

I just think SE should leave the world of FFVII behind, and focus on other titles now. In a industry where it is so cut throat to get ahead like the gaming industry is, SE needs to have fresh ideas to keep them going.



And my view of matters in this, as you quoted...

"All good things must come to an end..."

My thoughts? Only if you let them. Nothing has to end as far as I'm concerned. If we don't want to let go, than you'd better believe we ain't giving up without a damn good fight. And furthermore as the human race has shown, we and our culture can and will survive. After all, we've weathered wars, plagues, nuclear bombs, George W. Bush...hell we can handle just about everything life throws at us.

Perhaps, in the grandest scheme of things out in the universe, there is an actual end, one day perhaps millions or billions of years down the road. But why worry about that now?
...
...
...
I seem to be getting off topic again. So sorry. Anyway, I'll finish now with a favorite quote of my own...

"I will...never be a memory." Amen to that brother...

When we are young, we have certain likes and dislikes, yet as we grow older, they change over time. Nothing lasts forever... eventually everything crumbles away to dust and nothingness. Squaresoft and Enix in a sense both died and were reborn when Squaresoft assimilated Enix into itself and became SquareEnix. Even memories can fade over time as well. Change is inevitable, as are birth and death, night and day.

My end quote this time -

I am Alpha and Omega.

Beginning and the End.

The First and the Last

Why must you take things so seriously, I wonder. I was merely making a point, and you recoil as if I directly insulted you. Perhaps you should be a tad less sensitive, lest you look like an overbearing namby-pamby.

Furthermore, what exactly did I say that you would classify as a delusion? Hmm? I simply made a sophisticated argument with the esteemed Xiahou Dun, with valid points of my own opinion about our conversations. I fail to see that as being called a delusion.

And you got so moody about the AC quote. Spoken like a true literalist I suppose. Oh my god, says you, lets take everything we see on the Internet seriously! Tsk tsk...

Two words of advice to you...First you may want to relax a bit, lest that future stomach ulcer of yours starts acting up on you. And two...repeat first piece of advice. Being uptight is no fun, so do yourself a favor and grow a sense of humor. Thanks so much.

Since Xiahou hit my problems with your argument dead on, especially the part about video games being a form of escapism from the daily grind. I'll cut to the chase.

Stop dreaming about your opinion meaning anything unless you've got gobs of money, loads of charisma, and/or both. You openly admit you've got no life other than music and games as per this screenshot: So how can someone who's most likely had no real outside life know what it's like to live and breathe in the wonder that is the Sun?

And just so you know, backing opinion with opinon does NOT validate it any more than backing with horse shit. You use plenty of "my"s and "I"s for me to label your posts as shit.

P.S. By the way I loved the whole "grow a sense of humor" jab seeing as it's surely the other way around. I mean, Centaur took the time to post up his reaction. So just keep running around worshipping FFAC and putting up gay things like links to "Which Final Fantasy 7 character are you?" quizzes and FF7 sections on other forums, and I'll just keep pissing on your Gay Pride Parade.

P.S. By the way I loved the whole "grow a sense of humor" jab seeing as it's surely the other way around. I mean, Centaur took the time to post up his reaction. So just keep running around worshipping FFAC and putting up gay things like links to "Which Final Fantasy 7 character are you?" quizzes and FF7 sections on other forums, and I'll just keep pissing on your Gay Pride Parade.

My my my...you certainly are a nasty wrath-filled little person aren't you? And I find it amusing that you are getting so worked up over so simple a thing as my opinion on FF7 and the others topics I touched base upon. Goodness, it was as if I was talking about world politics or my views on atheism or something.

"Stop dreaming as if my opinion has meaning, unless you have money and/or charisma?"

That's very nice. Though perhaps I should offer you your own brilliant advice, you who gives your opinion that is more than likely equally pointless, due to your lack of mounds of cash and your charisma and etiquette skills that rivals a sheep's bladder.

As for what I wrote in my profile...well, there was only a limited about of typing space, so excuse me for not putting my whole autobiography down. As with many people, I have assorted interests, outside of the two things mentioned. And furthermore, are you so dense that you really take these things so literally? What if I had written down that I was an alien or the spirit of a deceased composer? Would you have reacted the same way?

So, to unfortunately unhinge your theory, I have a very clear idea what the outside world is all about, and I think I've seen my fill of it for one lifetime. And if that bothers you, then go take it up with counselor. There's a good lamb.

Do you honestly think I will change my opinion because of one spiteful yahoo on the Internet, on one site from the Internet, thinks I'm wrong? Tsk tsk...

Here's my advice, as a baker...Eat a cookie. They make people happy, and god knowns you could use it. Hell, you could use a couple hundred. There's little point in being a kill-joy or an excessively angry person, lest you do get that ulcer I was mentioning.

And no, that piece of advice about a sense of humor...that was for you, not for me. My sense of humor is there, it's just most people don't understand it. Sophisticated humor, which makes me assume since you didn't get it...well, I'd like to be delicate but...I guess it means you're an idiot. Which is clear by the way you justify your own words by throwing in "shit" and others, lacking a better vocabulary. How droll...

And I can't really recall ever saying the word "Worship" or even imply that I do so. Simply enjoying something and imparting holy rites upon it are two very different things, but since I assume you're a very bitter soul, that you don't know the difference. So, why don't you go back to your spiteful little world of bitching and moaning about your own equally pointless opinion (Remember lack of money and charisma?) and let us normal folk enjoy our own interests without your antagonistic commentary.

And I see you're also running out of ammunition...When all else fails, you call someone gay, or insight gayness on what they do. How original. Do yourself yet another favor and stop that crap. I may be wrong (maybe but probably not) about you being a nasty little person. Well, unless you're striving to prove me right (unless I already am, which I'm fairly certain I am), you might want to be a bit less offensive to others, lest they think that of you.

So, I'm afraid you'll have to try a wee bit harder than that Junior to get under my skin. I've endured worse, and in person from more influential people.

Oh, and one last thing. There are three things in the world that make a person's opinion valid, not just two. And I think with humanities bloody history, you'll see the truth in it. As you said, one is money and two is charisma. The third is an even older principle than the first two. It is excessive physical force. Which basically mean, one has the power to beat the tar out of someone until they listen and agree. I may be lacking the first two, I'll not deny, but I'm lucky to have the third. So, unfortunately for you, that does make my opinions valid. Tough luck Chuck.

I wonder...can you say the same? I sincerely doubt it. But hey, you've been to my profile, you know where I live. You ever want to try me yourself, my doors are always open. I'm always a fan of solving ones differences the old-fashion way.

(http://www.ff-fan.com)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? (http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest)
Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

Musical Horse, as much as I applauded you for your mature stance against z.zetsumei's uncalled for reactions, you kind of blew it with the "come to my house and I'll beat you up" ending.

JFTR, internet tough guys get mass amounts of ridicule and are hardly taken seriously.

Other than that, bravo.

Well, I thank you for your words. And heh...what can I say, that's how I am in person as well, so I just extended it across the Internet.

And trust me, I've taken ridicule by dozens, perhaps hundreds of people before because of my brash attitude, and I've never let it phase me. Nonetheless, I stand by my invitation for the simple reason that it's the truth. The fact that I put down the Country, State, and City where I live verifies that I'm spoiling for a fight, and would welcome it.

But hey, that's just how I am, I'm just crazy like that. But again, thanks for the support otherwise.


(http://www.ff-fan.com)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? (http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest)
Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

Z.Zetsumei. You seem to know how to argue a point. Which i respect. But there is no need whatsoever to bring a screenshot of his profile into it.

But also, musical horse. This is an Internet forum. You could live on opposite ends of the earth. Don't threaten people or insinuate that you would beat somebody up. Because it just makes you look an arse. Though i can see why you reacted like that. But you should, nay, could have dealt with it better in my opinion.

Well, I thank you for your words. And heh...what can I say, that's how I am in person as well, so I just extended it across the Internet.

And trust me, I've taken ridicule by dozens, perhaps hundreds of people before because of my brash attitude, and I've never let it phase me. Nonetheless, I stand by my invitation for the simple reason that it's the truth. The fact that I put down both the Country, State, and City where I live verifies that I'm spoiling for a fight, and would welcome it.

But hey, that's just how I am, I'm just crazy like that. But again, thanks for the support otherwise.


(http://www.ff-fan.com)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? (http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest)
Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

The fact that you believe you need to rely on your fists to settle adversity speaks lowly of your brain cells activities, I must say.

The fact that you believe you need to rely on your fists to settle adversity speaks lowly of your brain cells activities, I must say.


If I actually said what you seem to think I said, then I would agree with you. But then, I don't honestly remember saying I believed I needed to settle matters with violence. I just said I was a fan of it. Personal preference and personal truths are different. Can I solve matter diplomatically? Certainly. But I find the hostile solutions more interesting than talking. Many find that offensive, which I do not care about. Whatever gets the job done, and has the most amount of enjoyment in it.

Not only that, you are only responding to what was at the end of that lengthy argument of mine. Undoubtedly you've read the whole thing, and surely you could suspect one who could make such an accurate and calm defensive case, would also be capable of having average or above average brain cells.

And just because one resorts to violence doesn't necessarily mean they are a mindless idiot. Sometimes, it is the only way to halt further hostilities or other unsavory situations. No offense intended, but think carefully before speaking next time, hmm?

(http://www.ff-fan.com)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? (http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest)
Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

I read the whole thing, and trust me, I had a laugh of it. Z.Zetsumei is quite easy to see in your "description" of him.

Yet, like Noskillbassist pointed out, you did ruin everything by saying you'd enjoy a fight with him. Inviting him like this, on the internet, is as retared as anything you pointed out about him.

Now I'm quite direct on what I think about people (always has and always will be... even with my closest friends) , and what I pointed out in my earlier comment will stand for as long as you show me otherwise. Something your easy "mirroring" and basic human spyche applications didn't quite succeed to do.



Just don't take it personal, you have nothing to prove to me.

That's very nice. Though perhaps I should offer you your own brilliant advice, you who gives your opinion that is more than likely equally pointless, due to your lack of mounds of cash and your charisma and etiquette skills that rivals a sheep's bladder.

Where, pray tell, did I give/force/impose my own opinion? If you're referring to my "when your ass is grass comment", then I'll explain it for you.

You started off with that lame "I will never be a memory" quote, and I replied by stating that you WILL be a memory when "your ass is grass". Let's look at the logic. A man is regarded by fellow men as a man when he is alive, after he dies, he ceases to be a man and is considered as a memory. What happens when a man dies? He decomposes, right? Where do we put dead people? In graveyards...you know that big-ass field filled with dead people and GRASS. Dead + buried = one grassy ass.


Nonetheless, I stand by my invitation for the simple reason that it's the truth. The fact that I put down both the Country, State, and City where I live verifies that I'm spoiling for a fight, and would welcome it.

Both Country, State, AND City?! Holy shit! Your both is so manly that it can refer to three things?! Damn! Everyone stay out of his way, you might get your shit torn up by both him, his mom, and his musically inclined horse!

All kidding aside, this is exactly what I was waiting for. You made a mistake right there with the shenanigans about the fight invitation; I mean, why don't you put up your fucking address if you're so confident in yourself and your abilities? Surely a superior being like you can handle SPAM, rape, pipe bombs, arson, prank phone calls, gang rape via a horde of niggers, and the like.

You should take a lesson from the World Poker Tour and NOT reveal your hand if you're not forced to. I didn't label you as a goon with a decent IQ, you did my friend. By the way, your picture wouldn't happen to be here (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Internet_tough_guy) would it?

Note that I didn't run out of material with which to argue. You did. You're the one that degraded yourself by insinuating that I wanted to fight you with what I said in my reply to your worthless quotation of a sad excuse for a theatrical presentation.

I wouldnt mess with Musical Horse, i found a pic of him....

Haha discodan. You win

Also, Z.Zetsumei, you mentioned poker. This is wild shot in the dark. But you dont happen to play poker online do you?

Haha discodan. You win

Also, Z.Zetsumei, you mentioned poker. This is wild shot in the dark. But you dont happen to play poker online do you?

I did at one point, but the mind games aren't nearly as entertaining as IRL poker.

I did at one point, but the mind games aren't nearly as entertaining as IRL poker.

I bet u still sweat like you stole something when u have pocket aces.

I AM GOING TO BEAT YOU UP!


AND SO ARE MY FRIENDS!


http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/00/Internettoughguys.gif

They are milking it too much. I think AC should've been the last.

Oh, thanks for that. You didn't need to be so specific though.

Oh, thanks for that. You didn't need to be so specific though.

Especially when you concider that the only decent "milkage" is Crisis Core.
Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus being 2 worthless piles of garbage.

I bet u still sweat like you stole something when u have pocket aces.

Who doesn't?... Well, pros aside, I'd bet that most amateurs would when there's money to be had.

Who doesn't?... Well, pros aside, I'd bet that most amateurs would when there's money to be had.

Stick some tampons under your arms, it'll soak that right up!

Too awkward to keep pinned in. I'd rather use Arm&Hammer.

They are milking it too much. I think AC should've been the last.

Yay back on topic lol

What, you mean, sweating uncontroably when you have the nuts is not what FF VII is about?? Damn.

Where, pray tell, did I give/force/impose my own opinion?

Oh, I don't know, when you gave it? In a sense, whenever a person provides their own opinion, on any subject, they are forcing it upon any who read or hear it. So, in essence, I did the same, but you'll not see me deny it. When you gave your so astute opinion, you put it upon everyone of this thread, whether it was your intension or not. Though I suppose it's up to the reader to take it to heart.

But since you had obviously listened to mine, it was the least I could do to listen to yours. You're welcome...

Also, isn't it convenient that you choose to ignore the other points, the ones you yourself brought up initially, about the two things that make opinions valid? Hmm? Remember that, do you? Funny how you made no mention to that...

Anywho, let's move on shall we?

"I will never be a memory..."

Hmm...Now, here's what I am wondering. Why did you assume that I was talking about myself when I said this? I am still pondering at how you made the leap from what I meant to what you thought I meant. If you'd have read the entire argumentative rant that I had previously posted, you'll see I was referring to FF7...you know, the topic that we're discussing here?

Just because it says, "I will never be a memory," doesn't mean I can't use the quote to signify something other than myself in the first person. I could attach the quote to say a painting or sculpture, something that has endured the test of time...so far. And I could use the quote then, to signify it from its own possible first person perspective, even thought it technically doesn't have one, and attach the quote to that. I guess that I in there makes it misleading.

So I suppose I could understand how one might make that mistake. And if that's the case...so sorry. But I am fully aware that I'm a mortal, and I'll die one day or another. Except, I'll not be grass...I'm gonna be ash. I'd rather have the freedom in death of being little specks of ash thrown to the wind then being stuck in the ground and eaten by insects and other annelids, until naught but my bones remain.

And with that taken care of, on with the tour!

Both Country, State, and City? How is that both? I'm counting three things, not just two...

And yes, both I and my Musically Inclined Horse are always raring to go. You want my address? Alright, here it is...

3927 Fair Green St
Clearwater, FL, 33761

All I can say now...is be careful of what you asked for...

The WPT? No thanks, if I want to see poker, I'll play it myself, not watch others. Where is the fun in that? And I don't bluff or hide my hand. I've never done that, and I don't intend to. So far, I've done pretty well for myself, so I'm good as I am.

And I'm aware that you didn't label me as such. As you said, I was labeling myself that. And I am. You say "a goon with a decent IQ" like its a bad thing. I fail to see that. I may be a bit brutish in nature, but as you yourself pointed out, I'm not a mindless lummox who's soul lot in life is smashing things with my fists. I do personally enjoy that, but...nevermind. I'm tough, I'm smart...where's the down side?

Lastly, no, I was more correct. You were the one talking about gayness remember? That is notoriously a last resort for you and your immature ilk. When all else fails, insult their gender confusion. That's real nice...

I simply put the option to battle in as a closing bit, to show my seriousness and passion for what I'm arguing about, and seeing as how you started this more than slightly hostile exchange, I suppose I felt it was inevitably going to lead to this anyway.

And since I enjoy typing these logical and well-thought out responses, I took the initiative and sparked it. Now I'm reaping the rewards. So for that...thanks.

Oh, while I'm thinking about it; "a sad excuse for a theatrical presentation?" Hmm...alright, if that's your view then why don't you tell me what would be your idea of a decent or above average theatrical presentation? If AC was so terrible, what's your idea of a good movie?

---

And for everyone else who is putting there own two-cents worth into this exchange, let me clarify things. As I don't honestly remember making any Invitation to engage in a battle? All I said was and I quote, "You ever want to try me yourself, my doors are always open."

Now, if I had said, "Why don't you come down here so we can fight,", or something similar, that'd be different. That is a direct invitation. But I merely left the option open, not inviting him/her to do so, but leaving the choice up to him/her, and their own discretion.

So excuse me for having a passion for fighting and bringing it to bear. While you're all at it, why not go out and say the same thing to all martial artists, boxers, wrestlers and their like? On the Internet...off the Internet? Does it really matter?

Call it what you will, but I'll not be ashamed of having a love for a good fight, and bringing it to light here. Thanks so much, you've been a wonder audience! And with that, I'm gone!

(http://www.ff-fan.com)
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? (http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest)
Final Fantasy 7 (http://www.ff-fan.com/final-fantasy-7)

That guy is lost in self-contemplation.

I say he's got nothing more than suited connectors...

Raise!

Having mentioned the option to settle this with a fight, however way you want to turn it around, is still an invitation. Especially when you mention enjoying to settle things like this. It's not by turning into derision every comments made towards you that you'll help your case.

I honestly feel sorry for anyone who tried to read that idiots post.


I just glanced an address and refused to read anymore.

Ya,

However, they could meet at the Chi Chi Rodriquez Golf Course or the Mease Hospital Parking lot.

Signed, maps.yahoo.com
Aka Signed, Idiot who read until i saw an address

Dont give your adress out to provoke a fight. You suck.