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Heya Gals and Guys!

Heidl will probably start the release with this text written by me. I can only repeat myself but in my opinion he is one of the absolute best when it comes to designing awesome front covers or complete sets. Furthermore, he actually is a genuinely nice person. No egocentrical & fussy drama queen like me. Matter-of-fact yet respective, calm, decent... in short, a pleasant human being. I enjoy working with him a lot.


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A few days ago, I did have a little discussion with him regarding our little sparetime activities; I was suggesting that he chose a wrong path in life when he decided to do something else than designing covers (while I abandoned formal training - so I shouldn't talk). But he - correctly - reminded me of the freedom both of us enjoy when we dive down into the abyss of our respective hobbies. Both of us do work for hire from time to time where, naturally, freedom is somewhat limited. Either, the available material might be limited. Or the artist responsible might want something particular. Or something else, the list goes on. Don't get me wrong, work for hire can be a lot of fun! Your work on something is exposed - officially! - to others and you support other peoples' art. In the process, you get to know them and their desires which is always fascinating, always surprising and always pushing ones borders of experience.


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But just doing what your gut tells you is, in a way, equally gratifying as you can push your very own vanity, your opinion and your experience to the forefront. If both of us only worked for a living in our respective hobbyist areas, a release such as this would never see the light of day. Something where we both can do what we want, something where we're able to express us fully. An ego trip, if you will.

And now I'm coming to my area of expertise, the sound. Can I say that I really don't like Michael Giacchino's approach to sound? Whatever engineer is recording his scores, they always end up sounding muddy, dry, flat, 2dimensional, like something from the '60s. For me, this takes all the enjoyment out of his music. To do something about it is not easy. Changing frequency response to be more compatible to devices is one thing... but how to produce at least a hint of spatiality?


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You add reverb. Which I really don't like. For one, reverberation is an art. If done wrong, you might drown a perfect recording in a sea of wetness. Or one introduces artificial sounding metallic artifacts. Or phase errors, destroying mono compatibility. In general, I don't like to add something to a recording that didn't exist before, I prefer to work with what's actually there. But in this case I didn't have a choice, if I wanted to improve the sound I had to tinker with reverb. Reverberation was done seperately so that I could control it for each track individually. I altered frequency response and width on occasion. All in order to create a 3D sound that sounded completely organic and would push the score closer to John-Williams-territory. The whole process wasn't helped by the fact that some fade-outs and some individual instrument groups were treated with sudden bursts of reverb added for the official album while the rest inbetween was dry as a desert. Maybe Giacchino knows about peoples' dislike for his sound preferences and attempted to fool them into believing that the recording was actually wet? I don't know. While it doesn't sound 100% organic I still like to think that I succeeded - but you'll be the judge of that.

Overall frequency response mimics the one so typical for John-Williams-recordings for this universe. Though not fully. Deep bass is a lot stronger, bass around 100 Hz (which Williams would prefer) is not as strong. So it's a mixture of Williams-sound and Giacchino-sound.




As usual for releases I work on, all tracks have the same overall sound. This was a tad tricky as I used 3 different sources.
Source 1: HiRes (24/96) download I bought at Qobuz
Source 2: lossy FYC
Source 3: my very own Bluray (yup, ripped it myself)


The FYC had to be matched to the OST. The End Credits from the Bluray were a typical multichannel mix (in 24/48). I had to remix it (deleting surrounds and LFE channels) so that the sound would match the OST. Lots of difficult work. Thankfully I didn't need to do dynamic compression this time!



Wanna know the tools I used? Here it goes:
iZotope RX 4 Advanced (Resampler, Declip, Denoise, Declick), iZotope Ozone 4 (paragraphic EQ, multiband stereo imaging, harmonic exciter, loudness maximizer) & 7 (dynamic EQ), WaveLab Natural Verb (I tried Altiverb but it didn't fit this release), Sound Forge Wave Hammer, SoX and others.

The resulting score release sounds fairly good (for a Giacchino release) with consistent sound quality from start to finish, no matter where the material came from. In my opinion, wonderful covers from Heidl deserve nothing less.


Tracklist:
01. He�s Here For Us 3:20
02. A Long Ride Ahead 3:57
03. Wobani Imperial Labour Camp and
Trust Goes Both Ways 3:37
04. When Has Become Now 1:59
05. Jedha Arrival 2:48
06. Hearts of Kyber 0:58
07. Jedha City Ambush 2:19
08. Today of all Days 3:43
09. Star-Dust 3:43
10. An Imperial Test of Power 2:50
11. No Trust among Rebels 3:18
12. Jyn�s Path is clear 2:32
13. Confrontation on Eadu 8:06
14. Krennic�s Aspirations 4:16
15. Rebellions are built on hope 2:56
Total disc time: 50'22

01. Rogue One 2:05
02. Cargo Shuttle SW-0608 4:00
03. Good Luck, Little Sister 2:50
04. Are We Blind? 1:33
05. Scrambling the Rebel Fleet 1:33
06. At-Act Assault 2:55
07. Project Stardust 3:46
08. In the Imperial Archives 2:32
09. The Master Switch 4:03
10. We Have to Press the Attack 2:37
11. Your Father Would be Proud 4:52
12. Hope and Finale 9:51
13. The Imperial Suite (Album Suite) 2:31
14. Jyn Erso and Hope (Album Suite) 5:52
15. Guardians of the Whills (Album Suite) 2:55
Total disc time: 53'55


So, all that is left for me to say is the usual: Have Fun! :)


P.S.: the music doesn't reflect the movie. In most cases I took the versions from the OST. So if you want the movie versions, you have to look to other releases.

P.P.S.: if I assume correctly, this is the only version where the End Credits are properly mixed into the piece "Hope". Beside the fact that they are the full version from the movie and not the shortened versions from the OST/FYC.


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Hi folks!

What can I say about my cover artworks that I haven't said before? Not much I guess... I already felt like I've became repetitive in the past, so that's why I wanna cut it short.
The download archive contains the uncompressed HiRes (24/96) FLAC files without any artworks. I've offered a separate archive with all my covers in the past, however not this time.

Please head over to my blog HQCovers (http://hqcovers.net/2017/12/06/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-deluxe-edition-by-michael-giacchino-john-williams/) and grab the desired cover sets yourself.

This way I'm saving the trouble of upload, you save your bandwidth and everyone gets what (s)he desires :)

May the force be with you!


<hr>



Link:
https://mega.nz/#!ukAF2YST!E75SyKQJsk3cBbt8AlDl5VuKBrlkMGODDV2eCFxiXRo

RAR-Password:
Rodion_Duffy

Awesome! Thanks to both of you for this Deluxe Edition! :D

Huge thanks!

It's a bit unfortunate that none has yet the lossless FYC. I hoped that you managed to get it before doing the Deluxe Edition.

Thank youuu :D

Thanks!

Thank you!

Awesome share!

Thanks Man! This is just great!

Downloading this, because i'm immensely curious what Sonic was able to do with/to the sound. (Because i'm not a fan of Giacchino's work, in general. Unfortunately, i might add. But this isn't the place to discuss it.)

Thank you both!

Fantastic! Thanks!

Thanks for the share. Is there a tracklist? One that I can view without having to zoom in on a cover? :p

Thanks! "faints"

Thanks. Christmas has come early with you !!

Thanks for the share. Is there a tracklist? One that I can view without having to zoom in on a cover? :p

Ah crap... I've just updated the OP.

Thanks

Amazing share, thank you so much!

Thanks!!!

Thank you! Was hoping for something like this.

Thank you!

thanks

i can see the password but doesnt work. what is it? thanks

Thank you!

Thank you for sharing this music, I went to this movie as a kid when it 1st came out

thanks again!

It's a bit unfortunate that none has yet the lossless FYC. I hoped that you managed to get it before doing the Deluxe Edition.

Hmmm... I didn't have a Lossless FYC copy. So I made it lossless myself. Have a look at the frequency response if you can ;)

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------


Downloading this, because i'm immensely curious what Sonic was able to do with/to the sound.

Please give feedback. I'm still unsure about it.

Wow!!!!!

Thanks

I've been always a fan of SonicAdventure's work, so I can't wait to listen to this!! And your covers are excellent, heidl! Thank you both for sharing your work with us!! :)

Hmmm... I didn't have a Lossless FYC copy. So I made it lossless myself. Have a look at the frequency response if you can ;)

On spek they look as if they were lossless!


I haven't listened to it yet, but I'll surely do it soon! :D
Considering all the work you had to do, do you think that having a Lossless copy would have helped the mastering process?

Thx !!!

Gooooood ! Than kyou for this great work

I love the homages to Empire of the Sun and Full Metal Jacket.

Considering all the work you had to do, do you think that having a Lossless copy would have helped the mastering process?

Actually... no. People tend to exaggerate the deficits of a properly encoded mp3 release. It's not perfect to work on but I can make due. More problematic are transcodings from lossy codecs to other lossy codecs, those are (almost) impossible to work with. In any case, they require a shocking amount of work just to make them halfway useable.

Thanks

This is wonderful! Thank you for this!

And now I'm coming to my area of expertise, the sound. Can I say that I really don't like Michael Giacchino's approach to sound? Whatever engineer is recording his scores, they always end up sounding muddy, dry, flat, 2dimensional, like something from the '60s. For me, this takes all the enjoyment out of his music. To do something about it is not easy. Changing frequency response to be more compatible to devices is one thing... but how to produce at least a hint of spatiality?


You took the words right out of my mouth. Never really liked the scores of Giachino either. Always thinked to myself that he should going back to Video Game Scores. I mean when you compare the sound from Rouge One with MOH: Frontline for example...
So, i must really thank you and Heidl for the hard work. Finally i can enjoy this score. :)

Thank you!

Please give feedback. I'm still unsure about it.

I will. I'm just swamped with work right now, so i don't have the time for a proper comparison…

thanks!

Thanks!

Thanks very much, Sonic. This looks like a great post, but when I try to get the password, I'm getting this message: rodion_duffy’s server DNS address could not be found.
DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

Is it just me or does anyone else have this problem?

Thank you for this Sonic and thanks for the great covers heidl!

Great job with the sound. I like many of Giacchino's scores but, I find that I don't revisit his albums as much as other composers because of the muddy sound. Anyway you could remaster all his albums! Joking of course but, you made this release immensely more enjoyable. Thanks!

Now that's what I call dedication! Thank you for your hard work!

Thank you!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I always look forward to your releases and reading your release notes. Can't wait to listen to this.

And now I'm coming to my area of expertise, the sound. Can I say that I really don't like Michael Giacchino's approach to sound? Whatever engineer is recording his scores, they always end up sounding muddy, dry, flat, 2dimensional, like something from the '60s. For me, this takes all the enjoyment out of his music. To do something about it is not easy. Changing frequency response to be more compatible to devices is one thing... but how to produce at least a hint of spatiality?)

Giacchino said during a bonus feature on The Incredibles DVD years ago that he prefers what he calls "the right way" to record and mix music. The 1960s way...with only a few microphones and little overdubbing. So you've hit the nail right on the head with that assessment! I wish someone would tell him that what worked for one movie that was very much a 60s homage does not necessarily work for all the films that come after! Particularly ones set in the future. He's been burying a lot of his own instrumentation for years. Jeez.

Thank you! Fantastic job!

Great work as always now better than the original release, so thank you both for all your hard work.

Wow - Thanks very much for this one heidl! :zilla:

Thanks very much, Sonic. This looks like a great post, but when I try to get the password, I'm getting this message: rodion_duffy�s server DNS address could not be found.
DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

Is it just me or does anyone else have this problem?

That's misleading and I'm sorry about the confusion. It's not rellay a link, you just have to copy the text. I only posted it as a link so that it stays hidden from unregistered visitors.

Thanks!

Please give feedback. I'm still unsure about it.

I have the custom Scarif edition, the OST, the FYC and the custom OST+FYC expanded version. Yours is the first version I've listened through start to end. When I heard "Hope" start, I hadn't even realized I'd gotten that far. It sounds absolutely fantastic, it really does! My being a massive Star Wars fan makes this more than a little biased but this is by far my favourite release in your 'catalog' :)

You took the words right out of my mouth. Never really liked the scores of Giachino either. Always thinked to myself that he should going back to Video Game Scores. I mean when you compare the sound from Rouge One with MOH: Frontline for example...
So, i must really thank you and Heidl for the hard work. Finally i can enjoy this score. :)

"Rouge One". Speak it out loud :D No kidding, a year ago my husband and I had dinner with some friends. A girl - who was a big Star Wars fan - said that she was so excited about Rouge One. I laughed very loud but ever since then I don't think I have called the movie by its real name ;)

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------


Giacchino said during a bonus feature on The Incredibles DVD years ago that he prefers what he calls "the right way" to record and mix music. The 1960s way...with only a few microphones and little overdubbing. So you've hit the nail right on the head with that assessment! I wish someone would tell him that what worked for one movie that was very much a 60s homage does not necessarily work for all the films that come after! Particularly ones set in the future. He's been burying a lot of his own instrumentation for years. Jeez.

I have that particular DVD but have never seen that tidbit. Have to watch it more closely apparently. He said that? Interesting. So "the right way" is to ignore everything that happened since the '60s but suddenly embrace it when it comes to preparing his releases (-> with their brickwall limiting for Loudness-War-styled music)? What a hypocrit.

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------


That's misleading and I'm sorry about the confusion. It's not rellay a link, you just have to copy the text. I only posted it as a link so that it stays hidden from unregistered visitors.

That's clever! I never thought about that. And until now the reason was unclear.

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------


I have the custom Scarif edition, the OST, the FYC and the custom OST+FYC expanded version. Yours is the first version I've listened through start to end. When I heard "Hope" start, I hadn't even realized I'd gotten that far. It sounds absolutely fantastic, it really does! My being a massive Star Wars fan makes this more than a little biased but this is by far my favourite release in your 'catalog' :)

Really?? Thank you! That is great. I was aiming at the ultimate release (until the sessions or a complete version are released), to find that I actually succeeded for people who have heard all editions, official or custom made, makes my very happy.

Thanks a lot!!!

Thanks!

Amazing!
Many thanks to both of you!

Dear all,
I have really enjoyed this great effort from Mr Giacchino. Am I right in saying this new deluxe edition contains only what is already available? I.E the FYC tracks combined with the OST? This is not the complete score right? I don't know if a complete release of this marvellous score will ever see the light of day. I was hoping somwone might have created a mock up from DVD rips and video game material. Any ideas folks? I believe there are still quite a few cues from this movie which are still completely unreleased. Thanks again!

Thanks a lot!!

I have really enjoyed this great effort from Mr Giacchino. Am I right in saying this new deluxe edition contains only what is already available? I.E the FYC tracks combined with the OST? This is not the complete score right? I don't know if a complete release of this marvellous score will ever see the light of day. I was hoping somwone might have created a mock up from DVD rips and video game material. Any ideas folks? I believe there are still quite a few cues from this movie which are still completely unreleased. Thanks again!

This is not the complete score, correct. I chose to include stuff from the OST, FYC and the End Credits only. I never use DVD rips or whatnot because it just sounds bad (you will never get stageing, stereo spread, etc. right, no matter how much you process it). There might be some cues that are still unreleased - but the bulk of the music is available. I reckon that no more than 5-8 minutes are still missing.

Dear all,
I have really enjoyed this great effort from Mr Giacchino. Am I right in saying this new deluxe edition contains only what is already available? I.E the FYC tracks combined with the OST? This is not the complete score right? I don't know if a complete release of this marvellous score will ever see the light of day. I was hoping somwone might have created a mock up from DVD rips and video game material. Any ideas folks? I believe there are still quite a few cues from this movie which are still completely unreleased. Thanks again!

Here is an edition containing tracks from the OST, the FYC and Blu-Ray rips of missing cues: Thread 220144
Some Alternates are missing, but they're from either the OST or the FYC. If you're looking for something resembling a Complete Score, take that!

Thank you so much!

Thank you!

Many thanks.

I have the custom Scarif edition, the OST, the FYC and the custom OST+FYC expanded version. Yours is the first version I've listened through start to end. When I heard "Hope" start, I hadn't even realized I'd gotten that far. It sounds absolutely fantastic, it really does! My being a massive Star Wars fan makes this more than a little biased but this is by far my favourite release in your 'catalog' :)

Wow, what a compliment!
So you really prefer this one to The Force Awakens?

know a lot of people out there don't care for Mr Giacchino's music and I don't know a lot of his other stuff but considering he only had a month to write this score I think it's a tremendous effort. Kudos to all of you involved in trying your best to expand this very entertaining music.

Thanks a lot

Thank you once again for all your hard work and love for real great sound !!!!

Many Thanks !!!!

Many thanks for this score

Thanks a ton! Fantastic!

Many thanks for this, friends!

Dear SonicAdventure!

Thank you so much for this (and all other!) release! I have been following and listening your work since the wonderful days of the (now sadly defunct) WRG-Forum. I admire your enthusiastic dedication and amazing work on every single remaster (although I personally disagree with some of your decision from a personal taste perspective - that's one sound guy to another... Isn't variety wonderful?). I love to listen to every one of them. Thank you again for all your work!

When I saw Heidl's covers on facebook, I needed to have this edition because of them. Incredible job, thanks ;)

Thanks a lot, heidl and Sonic Adventure!!

A wonderful project. Thank you very much.

know a lot of people out there don't care for Mr Giacchino's music and I don't know a lot of his other stuff but considering he only had a month to write this score I think it's a tremendous effort. Kudos to all of you involved in trying your best to expand this very entertaining music.

I had problems with this score, too. I wasn't fascinated when I finally heard it. It works within the movie, so he did a good job. But without the movie... it didn't do it for me. The sound didn't help. I sometimes do Deluxe Editions as an attempt to like a score. It doesn't always work (still not sure about Rogue One) but sometimes it does and I grow to love it. And I only approached Heidl for a cover because he had so much fun designing TFA (I thought that the deserves fun) - I didn't anticipate that he would do so much work. Again ;)

So thank you :)

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------


When I saw Heidl's covers on facebook, I needed to have this edition because of them. Incredible job, thanks ;)

I know, Heidl's covers tend to cause this desire. They are... well, no words. I turn into a lucky person when I see his neat little details within those covers, those odd combination of things I wouldn't dare to touch on my covers for fear that they wouldn't work. With Heidl they work all the time.

Stop it already, will ya? ;)

Now it's my turn. I also wasn't blown away by RO at the beginning, even though I would consider myself a huge Giacchino fan. But RO felt rushed, like a lukewarm first atempt at something. With Williams' themes shoehorned into random tracks.

Well thanks to Sonic the score really grew on me. I still wouldn't call it great, but just like on Prometheus, Sonic's meticulously curated and mastered alternate version adds a huge amount of joy to my listening experience. He really is Da MAN when it comes to orchestral sound. And who else would even dare to turn the arguably most loved track ("Hope") into a full-blown end credits suite? What a bold move. And what a genius idea when you think about it.

So... The Last Jedi? Hell yeah, bring it on!!

This is great! I wasn't the biggest fan of Rogue One but I love Giacchino's scores

Thanks you two, heroes of the galaxy! Can't wait to relisten to this score, and give TFA another listen in time for Last Jedi!

Listened to it twice and gotta say the sound is fantastic! i now feel myself squinting a lot less at harsh sounds of brass haha.

Im not going to go into too much detail about the sound but the orchestra sounds so much more whole and well balanced. I found the OST hard to listen with my headphones but now i can pump that volume up and be genuinely taken away with this one. Overall, a warmer listen with powerful dynamics and the added bass compliments those harsh on my ears moments from the original soundtrack Love it!!!

The covers are fantastic! very creative, i dont know which i love the most haha

great work to the both of you!!!!!

thank you for the time you both put into it!

Thanks, you guys For all the hard work you do in putting all this together.

I just finished listening to these discs. They are a remarkable improvement over the commercial and FYI releases. Great artwork too. Thanks.

Great work on this!

Stop it already, will ya? ;)

Now it's my turn. I also wasn't blown away by RO at the beginning, even though I would consider myself a huge Giacchino fan. But RO felt rushed, like a lukewarm first atempt at something. With Williams' themes shoehorned into random tracks.

Well thanks to Sonic the score really grew on me. I still wouldn't call it great, but just like on Prometheus, Sonic's meticulously curated and mastered alternate version adds a huge amount of joy to my listening experience. He really is Da MAN when it comes to orchestral sound. And who else would even dare to turn the arguably most loved track ("Hope") into a full-blown end credits suite? What a bold move. And what a genius idea when you think about it.

So... The Last Jedi? Hell yeah, bring it on!!

I'm not the genius here, John Williams is. He had the idea to combine the Finale with the End Credits, Giacchino followed suit. And I just increased the "bang" ;)

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------


Listened to it twice and gotta say the sound is fantastic! i now feel myself squinting a lot less at harsh sounds of brass haha.

Im not going to go into too much detail about the sound but the orchestra sounds so much more whole and well balanced. I found the OST hard to listen with my headphones but now i can pump that volume up and be genuinely taken away with this one. Overall, a warmer listen with powerful dynamics and the added bass compliments those harsh on my ears moments from the original soundtrack Love it!!!

The covers are fantastic! very creative, i dont know which i love the most haha

great work to the both of you!!!!!

thank you for the time you both put into it!

Really? Wow, I really had hoped for reactions such as yours. And I wasn't sure about the sound, not even when it was released. so I'm glad that you like the sound and the marvellous covers Heidl did :)

Great covers! Thank you

Thanks for sharing :)

Listened to this last night on my new surround soundbar, what a treat! Sounds amazing, excellent flow, really made me fall in love with this score again. With the remastered sound, really sounded like true Star Wars!

BTW, did you take down your version of Force Awakens? Can't even find the page anymore. I guess I missed the memo, lol.

As far as I know, the TFA Deluxe Edition thread was deleted during the big 20th Century Fox threads sweep.

Thank you!!!

Really? Wow, I really had hoped for reactions such as yours. And I wasn't sure about the sound, not even when it was released. so I'm glad that you like the sound and the marvellous covers Heidl did :)

Hey SonicAdventure!

First off, a huge "thank you" to both you and heidl - it's a real treat to enjoy these treasures(not just this score, but the others as well) which you polish from a rought stone to a gem.

I have a question regarding the sound quality which heidl/you spoke of earlier, about the engineers treating the works making them sound "muddy, dry, flat, 2dimensional"
For me, who doesn't have "absolute pitch/geh�r", how can I know whether the sound quality is really good before purchasing them on FLAC, cd or on a record?

Are there any clues to hear on a track ,or perhaps, making a list of names of the engineers who have a history of making the score sound good?
Maybe my questions are somewhat limited as to what you guys know about these things, but I'd like to read your perspective on this matter, if you've got time?

Hey SonicAdventure!

First off, a huge "thank you" to both you and heidl - it's a real treat to enjoy these treasures(not just this score, but the others as well) which you polish from a rought stone to a gem.

I have a question regarding the sound quality which heidl/you spoke of earlier, about the engineers treating the works making them sound "muddy, dry, flat, 2dimensional"
For me, who doesn't have "absolute pitch/geh�r", how can I know whether the sound quality is really good before purchasing them on FLAC, cd or on a record?

Are there any clues to hear on a track ,or perhaps, making a list of names of the engineers who have a history of making the score sound good?
Maybe my questions are somewhat limited as to what you guys know about these things, but I'd like to read your perspective on this matter, if you've got time?

Thank you for your kind words :)

To answer your question: no, there isn't a clue if a record sounds good or bad. You can of course listen to it before you buy it (either online or in stores keeping CD players connected to headphones). But if you don't know what to compare it to, you're pretty much on your own. It's also difficult to explain as words are insufficient when it comes to describing sonic traits, they are imprecise and mean different things for different people. Example: warmth. "Warm" can mean anything, from diminished high treble (above 10 kHz) to strong upper bass (around 150-225 Hz) over loud lower mids (from 250-500 Hz) or attentuated mids (around 1000-1500 Hz). So when someone says "this is a warm sounding album" it can mean all of that or more. Equally, my descriptions you quoted above are guilty of audiophoolery. They were done for a quick overview without going into detail too much.

John Williams usually has good sounding scores, the same goes for James Horner. Both composers started to sound well during the early '90s. They both apparently aimed to apply classical music sonics to film scores through their engineers. Classical music sonics? First of all: it doesn't mean that scores should sound like classical music (simply because they are NOT classical music). But how to describe this without falling into the trap of audiophool territory? I'll try: the stageing should be "correct" (in reality, there is no standard for "correct"). Meaning it should be wide yet have depth (both related to stageing, spread of instruments & mixture of reverb), a "holographic" image of the orchestra when you listen to it on headphones or loudspeakers. It also shouldn't be too wide as it will become flat then. Frequency response should be crisp (but not overly so), deep bass should be present but not like it is on RCP-recordings (where it tends to overpower everything else). The rest should be balanced, meaning, no other frequency area should be too prominent nor too attentuated. The biggest reason for a balanced overall frequency response is this: no loudspeaker or headphone is perfect. All of them have more or less inconsistent frequency reponses; one loudspeaker pronounces bass so that it might sound well to the kids, another pronounces treble so that a classical music lover will like it (and those descriptions are, in fact, their own clich�). A recording is supposed to play on ALL of them reasonably well. A recording that is unbalanced, will sound even more unbalanced on an unbalanced loudspeaker/headphone. Up to the point of sounding awful. Example: try to combine RCP with Beats! Solo headphones - the amount of bass will literally smother you. Or try John Williams with Grado headphones, it will end up sounding piercing (-> in this case it means no bass, less lower mids, loads of treble). So balance is important for a recording.

Before I'm in danger of writing too much hot air no one is going to read anyway, I will just give examples of good sounding recordings or people to watch out for. Shawn Murphy is - most of the time - one of the best engineers around. He records for John Williams, James Horner, Danny Elfman, James Newton Howard. But beware: recent recordings by Murphy for JNH are lacking (probably because JNH wants a certain sound). Dennis Sands is also pretty good (Alan Silvestri, James Horner (he liked to switch), Danny Elfman). Simon Rhodes (James Horner) is very capable, too. Alan Myerson is pretty good, too. Though his recordings are usually post-processed in order to meet the RCP bass drone (Oh, how I will get flack for this "bashing"! :D).

An example of an engineer that - most of the time - produces uneven sounding recordings would be Peter Cobbin. He engineered this one. And also the Desplat-Potters. Or From Hell. Or the Hobbits (while the LOTRs are good!). His recordings all require lots of work to make them sound halfway decent on any device.

Bruce Botnick or Eric Tomlinson are everywhere. Both have produced pretty shoddy recordings but both have also produced stellar recordings. Shoddy Tomlinson: Alien. Stellar Tomlinson: Night Crossing, the first Indiana Jones.

Examples of good recordings: Episode I, II, III (all Murphy). Gladiator & DaVinci Code (Meyerson - both despite the strong bass), Avatar & Amazing Spider-Man (Rhodes), LOTR: Two Towers (Cobbin), Dances With Wolves (Murphy), Lady In The Water (Murphy), Bourne Supremacy (Sands - also excellent mastering by Patricia Sullivan), Night Crossing & Final Conflict (Tomlinson), U.S. Marshals, Looney Tunes: Back in Action (Botnick).

Examples of bad recordings: all Hobbit scores, Godzilla, HP & Deathly Hallows I & II, Rogue One (not anymore ;)) (Cobbin). Alien, Star Wars IV, V, Batman (Tomlinson). Maleficent, Salt (Murphy).

I've written too much. Crap.

Nice read! Very interesting, indeed :)
Out of this year's score releases which one do you think sound the best?

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------


As far as I know, the TFA Deluxe Edition thread was deleted during the big 20th Century Fox threads sweep.

That's weird.
TFA is in no way related to 20th Century Fox. Unless it was shut down because there's some themes from the previous films, but it wouldn't make sense anyway.
Too bad that the thread is gone...

No, no, this is pretty exciting to read, Sonic, because I had musical theory back in high school, and learned the basic on harmony, compositional structure and such.
(You've made one person happy by writing "too much".)

There I started to learn how to listen to and separate the different instruments(in classical music, mind you), and it helped that the school had a good sound system that made it easier for me to work on the lessons during class. We also worked on reading notes, sheets, so this is more interesting to read than the usual topics. :)

I think that the "warm" sound is feeling all the instruments present in the track, neither of them being tuned down. I noticed that I get goosebumps listening to some scores while not getting the same reaction from others, like they're numb in some ways.. I can tell because when I listen to the score from LoTR I can sense the music more than, say, Wonder Woman.

By the way, do you consider RCP a part of what is called "The Loudness War"?

About stageing, which studios do you think has the most clarity for all instruments during recording?(when they also have a good engineer)
I've read earlier on this forum someone pointing out that film scores in Europe/London doesn't have the same quality then their american counterparts..

I really appreciate the list you've written down on the sound engineers, it does give me a sense of who to look out for on the future releases of scores.

Am I understanding you correctly if I say that a good recording should be as clear while viewing a movie as if you were in a concert hall listening to all the instruments getting their fair share of space?

Lastly, as a avid record collector, do you have any suggestions as to what kind of stereo equipment(record player, headphones, amplifier, receiver, speakers, etc) as to this date is best suited to bring out all frequencies and make a good-recorded song shine out in the room, without being too expensive?

I know you wrote about no one being perfect, but do you have some experiences with some brands that made you say "oh, this is a good one!"?

Nice read! Very interesting, indeed :)
Out of this year's score releases which one do you think sound the best?

Ugh... that is difficult. Off the top of my head I can't think of any. I bought / heard several but I cannot remember one that was good sounding. I could talk about re-releases... but most of them required a copious amount of additional work. The only "new" stuff I listened to were Wallfisch scores (It & Cure for Wellness) and both of them were not perfect (to put it politely).


That's weird.
TFA is in no way related to 20th Century Fox. Unless it was shut down because there's some themes from the previous films, but it wouldn't make sense anyway.
Too bad that the thread is gone...

No, it was shut down, well, to make sure that nothing would happen to the forum. I won't say anything more about this.

---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------


No, no, this is pretty exciting to read, Sonic, because I had musical theory back in high school, and learned the basic on harmony, compositional structure and such.
(You've made one person happy by writing "too much".)

There I started to learn how to listen to and separate the different instruments(in classical music, mind you), and it helped that the school had a good sound system that made it easier for me to work on the lessons during class. We also worked on reading notes, sheets, so this is more interesting to read than the usual topics. :)

Ah, but musicians are a bit different. In my experience, musicians hear differently to, say, engineers. Musicians may concentrate on certain instruments / instrument groups, they might even throw away a sonic concept an engineer has devised simply because they want to hear their favourite instruments clearly and above everything else. But usually, musicians just don't care (not a bad thing if they afford freedom to the engineers working on their art).


I think that the "warm" sound is feeling all the instruments present in the track, neither of them being tuned down. I noticed that I get goosebumps listening to some scores while not getting the same reaction from others, like they're numb in some ways.. I can tell because when I listen to the score from LoTR I can sense the music more than, say, Wonder Woman.

See, "warm" means something else for you. I think in sonic terms while you think in musical terms. Because LoTR is musically totally different compared to Wonder Woman.


By the way, do you consider RCP a part of what is called "The Loudness War"?

Depends. If you include preference for bass and treble to be a part of the Loudness War, then yes. If you include brickwall limiting I would also include JNH, Silvestri, Giacchino, Desplat, Shore... the list goes on. Some of their recent releases are Loudness War examples, some are not. But take 'Interstellar': no Loudness War. Brickwall limiting, yes. But well done. Compare that to Mad Max: Fury Road which was a prime example of every bad trait a recent recording might have.


About stageing, which studios do you think has the most clarity for all instruments during recording?(when they also have a good engineer)
I've read earlier on this forum someone pointing out that film scores in Europe/London doesn't have the same quality then their american counterparts..

There are good recording venues all over the globe. There are also bad ones. It all depends on how well an engineer knows his way to work around their flaws. An engineer basically "creates" the sound you hear on a record. It doesn't necessarily reflect the truth. Take 'Attack Of The Clones' and compare it to 'Maleficent': both were recorded at Abbey Road (by the very same engineer!) yet both sound very different. Why? Because of preferences by their respective composers. So effectively, by choosing certain microphones, their placement and differences in mixing and applying slight or strong EQ to certain busses / tracks one can influence the sound until the venue is unrecognizeable.


Am I understanding you correctly if I say that a good recording should be as clear while viewing a movie as if you were in a concert hall listening to all the instruments getting their fair share of space?

Careful. For one, a recording sounds different to its live counterpart (as explained above). Secondly, an orchestral recording in a movie needs different things than its counterpart on, say, CD (for one, it needs to adapt to voices, sound effects, etc.). In many cases, a recording never sounds like anything you were to experience if you were sitting right inside the orchestra hall. A fully packed hall dissipates sound differently to an empty hall (less treble, more bass). A completely empty hall might sound brittle or too crisp and way too "wet" (too much reverb). Take reverb: good recording venues reverb a lot around frequencies from 100-3000 Hz (give or take 1000 Hz). For a recording you might add some treble to your reverb, it might make the sound a little "muddy" otherwise.

So when people say that the live experience sounded so much better than the recording, they don't know what they're talking about. Furthermore, the sound on a record is created, it often isn't a perfect recreation of what an orchestra hall really sounds like. A record assumes a perfect place for an imagined listener to sit at (I don't know, something like 10 meters in front of the orchestra, depends on the engineer, the room, the composer). At a concert you won't likely sit at that perfect place.


Lastly, as a avid record collector, do you have any suggestions as to what kind of stereo equipment(record player, headphones, amplifier, receiver, speakers, etc) as to this date is best suited to bring out all frequencies and make a good-recorded song shine out in the room, without being too expensive?

I know you wrote about no one being perfect, but do you have some experiences with some brands that made you say "oh, this is a good one!"?

I don't have any brand I prefer. At least not for sources (CD players, Bluray players, network streamers, etc.). The sound quality level you can achieve is determined by your budget, your requirements regarding convenience, etc. Some general suggestions would be: stay away from boutique hardware (stuff recommended by audiophiles). Stay away from vinyl (aka turntables). Many people love it for many reasons. But sound shouldn't be among them. In fact, from all the media we have today, vinyl is the worst sounding. However, if you desire the colourization, technical imperfections and many flaws vinyl produces, then vinyl it should be for your.
For headphones I just look for balanced stuff. My point is: all electronic gear can be measured. Those measurements say something (if not everything) about sound if you know how to read them and if someone measured enough. Balanced frequency reponse is key. On the other hand, headphone sound is very personal. So a headphone I like might be your nightmare.
Loudspeakers: their sound depends on the room they are standing in. You need to choose a loudspeaker suited to your room. A huge box will sound way too bassy in a small room of 10 sqrm so you will need to choose a shelf loudspeaker. The amount of carpet, glass, etc. will influence their sound greatly. Your listening position. Tons of possibilities.
So the self-calibrating all-in-one Bose system might be the perfect thing for you. And I'm not kidding. If it fits your room, it's good. Sadly, you can find out those things by listening to them. A review will never tell you how it will sound at home.

I just want to add my thanks to the chorus of appreciation for SonicAdventure and heidl's generous sharing of their obvious talents! Both in awe of the skill exhibited with this share, and educated by the thoughtful discussions about the work that has quickly filled this thread. Thank you.

See, "warm" means something else for you. I think in sonic terms while you think in musical terms. Because LoTR is musically totally different compared to Wonder Woman.

That's true. My definition of "warmth" is of recordings from the 70s like Caldera's "Ancient Source" or Bibio's album "Fi", Beach Boys' Wall of sound, Boards of Canada's Geogaddi - My view on the word might be limited as to how you view the "warmth" of a track, since you have way more knowledge about this matter, but I really enjoy reading your thoughts on this!

I've even learned a new word: "Brickwall limiting" :)


But take 'Interstellar': no Loudness War. Brickwall limiting, yes. But well done. Compare that to Mad Max: Fury Road which was a prime example of every bad trait a recent recording might have.

From what I could hear on the scores, Fury Road was nearly deafening because it sounded like the instruments got amplified while Interstellar sounded more balanced, even though they both had loud moments.
I use simple terms to describe it, but I guess I'm closing in on how you view the loudness, or?


Some general suggestions would be: stay away from boutique hardware (stuff recommended by audiophiles). Stay away from vinyl (aka turntables). Many people love it for many reasons. But sound shouldn't be among them. In fact, from all the media we have today, vinyl is the worst sounding. However, if you desire the colourization, technical imperfections and many flaws vinyl produces, then vinyl it should be for your.
For headphones I just look for balanced stuff. My point is: all electronic gear can be measured. Those measurements say something (if not everything) about sound if you know how to read them and if someone measured enough. Balanced frequency reponse is key. On the other hand, headphone sound is very personal. So a headphone I like might be your nightmare.
Loudspeakers: their sound depends on the room they are standing in. You need to choose a loudspeaker suited to your room. A huge box will sound way too bassy in a small room of 10 sqrm so you will need to choose a shelf loudspeaker. The amount of carpet, glass, etc. will influence their sound greatly. Your listening position. Tons of possibilities.
So the self-calibrating all-in-one Bose system might be the perfect thing for you. And I'm not kidding. If it fits your room, it's good. Sadly, you can find out those things by listening to them. A review will never tell you how it will sound at home.

Thanks for this!
These are a nice set of general guidelines to follow.
I'm pleased to see Bose mentioned here because I've heard some great things about the brand from other friends.
Also, "Balanced frequency reponse" - got it!

You are right about vinyl, but it's something about the imperfections, ticks and such(not too much, though, I clean my records), that I enjoy.
Like I'm not taking the music for granted, and I'm enjoying a piece of history, if you will.
Besides, most of the new records that I've bought thankfully comes with a download link where I can choose different formats.

Do you have any tips on websites that has guidelines as to where to put the speakers in a room, optimizing the listening experience?
Maybe you've created some guidelines yourself?


I just want to add my thanks to the chorus of appreciation for SonicAdventure and heidl's generous sharing of their obvious talents! Both in awe of the skill exhibited with this share, and educated by the thoughtful discussions about the work that has quickly filled this thread. Thank you.
Totally agree with you!

I just want to add my thanks to the chorus of appreciation for SonicAdventure and heidl's generous sharing of their obvious talents! Both in awe of the skill exhibited with this share, and educated by the thoughtful discussions about the work that has quickly filled this thread. Thank you.

Thank you :)

---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------


That's true. My definition of "warmth" is of recordings from the 70s like Caldera's "Ancient Source" or Bibio's album "Fi", Beach Boys' Wall of sound, Boards of Canada's Geogaddi - My view on the word might be limited as to how you view the "warmth" of a track, since you have way more knowledge about this matter, but I really enjoy reading your thoughts on this!

It has nothing to do with me having more knowledge or less knowledge. Your definition of warmth is simply different than mine. This is what I talked about: those words have different meanings for different people :)


I've even learned a new word: "Brickwall limiting" :)

Really? Brickwall limiting has been part of the loudness war since the beginning. -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war - On the right you can several examples of brickwall limiting.


From what I could hear on the scores, Fury Road was nearly deafening because it sounded like the instruments got amplified while Interstellar sounded more balanced, even though they both had loud moments.
I use simple terms to describe it, but I guess I'm closing in on how you view the loudness, or?

Yes, pretty much. Fury Road was - for the most parts - brickwall limited and it always had detrimental sonic effects. On Interstellar, there was less amount of brickwall limiting (meaning that even loud parts of it were softer than Fury Road) and it also had more soft pieces in general. When music approaches the sound of noise or if there are distortions creeping in at high levels, it might be a sign of brickwall limiting.


I'm pleased to see Bose mentioned here because I've heard some great things about the brand from other friends.

Bose is actually frowned upon in audiophile circles. And actually, not without reason. They use the cheapest hardware possible and compensate for weaknesses produced by the hardware with fairly powerful digital signal processors. On the other hand, their expensive systems will adapt to the room they're standing in - and where's the hurt in that? So Bose is not the best company but it might be the best for certain cases. Having said that, I wouldn't buy one of their headphones. Their design is ugly, they are not comfortable (not yet) and I don't like their sound signature. Of course, they are too expensive, you pay for a name.


You are right about vinyl, but it's something about the imperfections, ticks and such(not too much, though, I clean my records), that I enjoy.
Like I'm not taking the music for granted, and I'm enjoying a piece of history, if you will.
Besides, most of the new records that I've bought thankfully comes with a download link where I can choose different formats.

Ok. As long as you don't say "vinyl sounds better than digital because it's analogue". Because that isn't the truth, whatever vinyl-o-philes will say.


Do you have any tips on websites that has guidelines as to where to put the speakers in a room, optimizing the listening experience?
Maybe you've created some guidelines yourself?

Phew! I never created some guideline nor do I know a site with guidelines. But Google is your friend and so I've found some:

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-position-your-speakers-perfectly/
http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/regeln_e.html
https://www.lifewire.com/placing-speakers-correctly-3134857

Those are only three. And those are only a start.

Wow, thank you both for this awesome piece of work! It's really great

"It works within the movie, so he did a good job. But without the movie... it didn't do it for me."

Exactly Sonic. That's how I feel about most of Giacchino's works. However, after what you did... It does not sound dull or flat anymore! You are a wizard!
Thank you very much to both you and Heidl for the hard and excellent work.

Thank you again, Sonic! I enjoy this soundtrack much more now without even think always of the movie. Because without it doesn�t work like you already said. Feels much more like an actual Star Wars that belong now to the whole John William Soundtrack Saga. One thing, i feel i�m missing a cue which is played when the two Star Destroyers crashing together. Or was that Music never released?

Exactly Sonic. That's how I feel about most of Giacchino's works. However, after what you did... It does not sound dull or flat anymore! You are a wizard!
Thank you very much to both you and Heidl for the hard and excellent work.

Aw, thanks :)

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------


Thank you again, Sonic! I enjoy this soundtrack much more now without even think always of the movie. Because without it doesn�t work like you already said. Feels much more like an actual Star Wars that belong now to the whole John William Soundtrack Saga. One thing, i feel i�m missing a cue which is played when the two Star Destroyers crashing together. Or was that Music never released?

I really don't know. I used this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P1YtETbm10jj2PUJ_4l9bBdVuVVtm8u3QP4ea3Y8CG8/pubhtml

Thanks for all the lovely praise, you're all more than welcome!

I think the track "Your father would be proud" was played in that epic finale, wasn't it?

One thing, i feel i�m missing a cue which is played when the two Star Destroyers crashing together. Or was that Music never released?

No, it wasn't released in either the OST or the FYC.
Luckily, GoodMusician made a really good Blu-Ray rip of everything that hadn't been released yet. Here's the thread: Thread 220144

The track you're looking for is "[7m45b] I Have an Idea"

Thanks, as always!

Awsome post! I can't wait to give it a listen.

Thank you both for this amazing work. SonicAdventure is my hero since "The Shadow" release

Hello download from. Sonic adventure star wars the force awekens deluxe edition and other titles thank you..

Hello download from. Sonic adventure star wars the force awekens deluxe edition and other titles thank you..

Wut??

Many thanks!

Really? Brickwall limiting has been part of the loudness war since the beginning. -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war - On the right you can several examples of brickwall limiting.

I've read some articles about it, but this was another side of it, which I will be reading more about!


Of course, they are too expensive, you pay for a name.

Yeah, that goes for many brands out there - a friend of mine said the same thing of Beats Headphones by Dr Dre - it's more expensive because of the name, and it's not necessarily better because of it.


Ok. As long as you don't say "vinyl sounds better than digital because it's analogue". Because that isn't the truth, whatever vinyl-o-philes will say.

I completely understand if you thought so, as there are alot of people out there saying the same thing, but like I said earlier, I've got other reasons why I'm enjoying the format. Not just the fragility of it, but also the package/cover that goes with it - sometimes reminds me of a good book. :)


Phew! I never created some guideline nor do I know a site with guidelines. But Google is your friend and so I've found some:

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-position-your-speakers-perfectly/
http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/regeln_e.html
https://www.lifewire.com/placing-speakers-correctly-3134857

Those are only three. And those are only a start.

I appreciate your links, Sonic - thanks again for taking time to answer my questions!

link star wars the force awekens deluxe edition a

Insanely outstanding!

Wut??

might be a bot

Thank you so much for this! I love the work from both of you, so I'm very excited to snap this one up.

This sounds great! Thanks for the work you put into it!

What's the new password? Rodion Duffy does not work.

No actually it's Rodion_Duffy

Thanks so much for your great work, guys!

No actually it's Rodion_Duffy

Yaaaaaaay! It's working! It's working!

Thank you, heidl.

I've seen The Last Jedi yesterday ;) Don't want to spoil anything...

---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------



I've read earlier on this forum someone pointing out that film scores in Europe/London doesn't have the same quality then their american counterparts..


I would disagree a bit ;) Hateful 8 was recorded in Prague.

Thank you for your upload! I've been looking for the full ending for a long time

Thanks!!! :)

Thanks so much - love both of your work.

Thank you! I completely missed this one I found it by your covers web, heidl!

Cool! Thanks for sharing.

Another classic; thanks for all your hard work.

Thank you very much!

Track 12 is cut.

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------

And 14

What?
I don�t know what you mean.

There are mistakes in tracks 12 and 14.

No way. Where exactly?

There are mistakes in tracks 12 and 14.

Man what do you mean?

...there are NO "mistakes" in tracks 12 & 14....they are playing fine (and complete!)

They are.

Excellent, many thanks indeed :)

Thank you very much for this! :D

I saw this resurface and decided to check it out. I really enjoyed the Rogue One score, but I wasn't thrilled with the sound. I didn't hate it, per se � there are some orchestral recordings that sound far worse than this one � but it was flat, and harsh, and it really taxed the ears. I was willing to put up with that because I enjoyed the wild enthusiasm that I felt Giacchino had to be working on a Star Wars picture.

But hot damn, this pretty much solves all of the sonic issues with the score � the FYC cues sound more present, the brass isn't as cutting, but most of all, SonicAdventure, you somehow managed to restore a more natural dynamic to the recording, which allows the music to really kick in when it kicks in, and just on the whole makes the score so much easier to listen to.

This just sounds great �*now I'm gonna go listen to it again.

Cheers.

Always appreciate the time and effort you guys put in to these releases - grateful thanks.

I saw this resurface and decided to check it out. I really enjoyed the Rogue One score, but I wasn't thrilled with the sound. I didn't hate it, per se — there are some orchestral recordings that sound far worse than this one — but it was flat, and harsh, and it really taxed the ears. I was willing to put up with that because I enjoyed the wild enthusiasm that I felt Giacchino had to be working on a Star Wars picture.

But hot damn, this pretty much solves all of the sonic issues with the score — the FYC cues sound more present, the brass isn't as cutting, but most of all, SonicAdventure, you somehow managed to restore a more natural dynamic to the recording, which allows the music to really kick in when it kicks in, and just on the whole makes the score so much easier to listen to.

This just sounds great —*now I'm gonna go listen to it again.

Did I?? Wow, thanks a lot! This was a difficult job. A reason why I'm not that eager to repeat a Giacchino-score at the moment... but at one point I will :) Because his music is good, I like it.

Thank you

Thank you so much for sharing this!

Awesome! Thank you!

Thanks for putting this together & sharing. Much appreciated.

Many thanks for this :)

Seeing how "The Last Jedi"'s music si available, should we expect a deluxe edition to that, Sonic?

Seeing how "The Last Jedi"'s music si available, should we expect a deluxe edition to that, Sonic?

Who knows? Wait and see ;)

May I have the link, please?

I can't open the password.

Can someone reupload this.

NICE!!!!

On behalf of everyone, can I just say it again...HEIIIDELL HEIIDELL. Great composition and thanks for the polish work.

Thanks a lot.

Really great work, absolutely love what you've done.

Thanks!

Rep points added and my undying gratitude is sent your way. Cheers!

What's the .rar password?

What's the .rar password?

should be: Rodion_Duffy

it's in the spoiler in the first post...