Did you, by any chance, read the past five pages of discussion/debate before posting? I highly doubt you did. But since I like debate/discussion...


in other hand i just love the plot, the characters and the song "eyes on me", it´s just fantastic.

While I've already acknowledged the quality of FFVIII's music, the plot and characters were horrid. In the past few pages, the game's terrible plot twist has been discussed, not to mention the flat, boring characters. You're going to have to do much better than that if you want any sort of credibility on FFS.

Did you, by any chance, read the past five pages of discussion/debate before posting? I highly doubt you did. But since I like debate/discussion...



While I've already acknowledged the quality of FFVIII's music, the plot and characters were horrid. In the past few pages, the game's terrible plot twist has been discussed, not to mention the flat, boring characters. You're going to have to do much better than that if you want any sort of credibility on FFS.


i�m sure you did�t read some post because in some post people, like me, said that the plot is good. and the characters too. this is a forum so we can say our opinion. or we should. because there are some "Nerds" that think they have the reason and they know everything. let us alone. i have my opinio so let me expose it. i play FFVIII and i love the plot and the characters. ofcourse they have some weak points but overall they are good. if you can�t accept diferent opinions than yours move out and go to another forum.

it´s true that FFVIII has some problems with the plot and characters but what´s the matter??? it´s a very good game. we can say that they have some developmente problems.

You can edit a previous post if you're just making a quick addition and it hasn't been that long since you first posted. Just hit the bottom towards the bottom-right of the post --- it's the one marked "Edit."

Stand: The game had a great atmosphere, and the Laguna storyline was probably one of the most interesting in the entire series. The game also had great music (probably the best music).

Fall: I never liked the Junction system, and I've only recently been able to fully understand how it works. Another drawback is the story; boring and safe, and the characters were mostly pretty bland.

i´m sure you did´t read some post because in some post people, like me, said that the plot is good. and the characters too. this is a forum so we can say our opinion. or we should.

And things have to be the way you say they should? Unless you intelligently back your precious opinion, it's going to be challeneged every single time on FFS. If you can't handle that, then take your fragile ego elsewhere.


if you can´t accept diferent opinions than yours move out and go to another forum.

LoL!! OH NOEZ! I have to find a new place to post, because an Onion Kid's poor sensibilities have been upset. How dare I do something so terrible as challenge his precious opinion! O cruel fates, why was I born such an insensitive jerk?

I can't elaborate like most of you here so I'll just say the game was enjoyable and I liked the final FMV.

Mr. ChunkyMunky i´m sorry if i was inconvenient in my post. you are right on your post so i´m sorry. next time i will try to be more polite. good posts for you.

Mr. ChunkyMunky i�m sorry if i was inconvenient in my post. you are right on your post so i�m sorry. next time i will try to be more polite. good posts for you.

:eye: Fair enough--so I take it you've read my previous posts in this thread?

STAND: Laguna

FALL: Squall

:eye: Fair enough--so I take it you've read my previous posts in this thread?

yes i did. and you are right in some points of view.

Some?

Stand: squall, gunblade, graphics, gfs

fall: bad characters, no real weapons, crap story line

Alright! More wankery from sain. Does it ever end?

It's really funny (as in stupid-funny) how "Squall" is in the Stand part, and then "bad characters" is under Fall. "Gunblade" is under Stand, and "no real weapons" is under Fall.

The more I read his nonsensical crap, the more I think it's a joke account.

Stand: squall, gunblade, graphics, gfs

fall: bad characters, no real weapons, crap story line

Well the game's bad characters problem really stems from Squall being a good (or at least developed) character. Along with Rinoa, the spotlight that Squall receives throughout the game deducts from the audience's interaction with the characters that aren't Squall or Rinoa, therefore leading us to believe that they are bad characters.

The only 'unreal' weapon that I can think of in FFVIII is the gunblade. Fighting gloves, whips, nunchukus, projectiles/crossbows, shotguns, staffs are all realistic weapons. Yet you not only deem them unreal, but inferior to the SUPER AWESOME IDEA that is the gunblade?

As for crap storyline... ok, you can have that one. Except in relation to GFs being a strong point; the GF = amnesia idea was a pretty cringeworthy concept you'd have to say, therefore making your favourable GFs a responsibility of the inadequate storyline. Or the other way around.

There, I found as many contradictions as I could.

Haha sorry Irvy im gonna reinforce a point you just made.

Stand: Gunblades
Fall: no real weapons

Yes because gunblades are the top of the range war weapons atm. I hear Bush has just ordered 50000 lionhearts to be made for his troops so they can go slice up the enemy or shoot them from afar depending on what mood they are in that day.

Where as the people using Whips, Nunchucks and staffs are being told they need to start learning how to use "real weapons" as they dont seem to be considered "Proper" weapons these days. So soon there will be an influx of the users of both crossbows and longbows as they are still considered real weapons in this world by a lot of people.

Actually gunblades are real, they just don't look like squall or seifers And they aren't called gunblades. They're actually historical antiques.

Actually gunblades are real, they just don't look like squall or seifers And they aren't called gunblades. They're actually historical antiques.

I was just going to say that.

The gunblade doesn't actually function like a gun though. I'll bet the ones in real life are more like pistols with swords attached to the side. It would really surprise me if there was a weapon that functions in the manner that the gunblade does.

That's because there's no purpose in having a gun that you can only use as you strike someone with a sword that would kill him anyway.

People keep saying VIII has poor characters, no story, etc, but do they really have a clue what they're talking about? I found the gameplay and story very interesting and thought-provoking. The characters were realistic - hell, even I've been known to withdraw into a "Squally" state of mind at times, albeit for another reason. As for the "c0mplc8d junshun sistm" everyone bitches about - what gives? I had it down pat in the first battle, possibly before then. I suppose those same people would prefer to put a game in and let itself play to the end, without having to actually *work* towards a conclusion.

Admittedly, Rinoa is so shallow she may as well be 2-Dimensional; wtf happened to armour/equipment; and where is the beast you can devour to boost speed? Squall has so much depth he should be 4-Dimensional - it's not the character that is the problem. Maybe some people don't like his attitude, maybe he's too close to what some people are like for comfort. And maybe it's his permanent frown. Whatever it is, it isn't gameplay, or so other jumped up teenie-bopper: "hee Dat is teh squal dummo i h8 8 mb yah woo hop" gibberish trash. Know what a word means before you start using it.

What a wonderful post. I agree with pretty much everything you said about both Squall and Rinoa. Squall is definitely one of my favorites from that game and I generally can't stand Rinoa. What bit of stupid dialogue was it that somebody pointed out in another thread earlier today --- I think it was "You big meanie!!!"

Whereas from Squall we get stuff like:


Irvine: So like...if you knew that your enemies were pure evil, you'd get more fired up to fight them, right?
Squall: (...An enemy that is pure evil? Right and wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just 2 sides holding different views.)

Alright! More wankery from sain. Does it ever end?

It's really funny (as in stupid-funny) how "Squall" is in the Stand part, and then "bad characters" is under Fall. "Gunblade" is under Stand, and "no real weapons" is under Fall.

The more I read his nonsensical crap, the more I think it's a joke account.


zell uses his fist and is a shit head, ronia uses a cross bow and is a bitch, and thers a whole bunch of gay shit like whips, numchucks and a rifle. the only "good and logical" character taht u get to keep and don't only get to use at sertin points is squall, and even then his weapon is a gunblade. whitch is kinda cool buts theres no swords, spears or ax's. Hardly a fantasy.

People keep saying VIII has poor characters, no story, etc, but do they really have a clue what they're talking about?

For your sake, I surely hope that isn't an attempt at a flame. At least I've backed my views with some form of proof, other than the wanking fanboy "I relate to the characters" tripe.


As for the "c0mplc8d junshun sistm" everyone bitches about - what gives?

If you'd actually read the last few pages of this thread, you would've seen what gives from multiple posters. At any rate, the Junction system's issue isn't anything to do with it being complicated. It's hopelessly broken.

I agree with pretty much everything most of what you said about both Squall and Rinoa.

x2...

zell uses his fist and is a shit head, ronia uses a cross bow and is a bitch, and thers a whole bunch of gay shit like whips, numchucks and a rifle. the only "good and logical" character taht u get to keep and don't only get to use at sertin points is squall, and even then his weapon is a gunblade. whitch is kinda cool buts theres no swords, spears or ax's. Hardly a fantasy.

apologies for the double post but....

gtfo!!

I put him on my Ignore List. It's a lot of fun. Normally I wouldn't, but this is the first time I've ever put anyone on ignore on these boards and I'm enjoying it. I still have an option to see his posts, though, if he posts something in a section I moderate, like this one.

People keep saying VIII has poor characters, no story, etc, but do they really have a clue what they're talking about? I found the gameplay and story very interesting and thought-provoking.

At least others have given arguments as to why they thought the story and gameplay was below average, much more than simply because they thought it was "very interesting and thought-provoking". What parts garnered your interest? What elements of the story were thought-provoking, and what thoughts did they provoke?


The characters were realistic - hell, even I've been known to withdraw into a "Squally" state of mind at times, albeit for another reason.

Of course you've found yourself reflecting Squall's character, quite a lot of people do. And that's because his character was created on one simple basis; the loner/distant cast member who manages to make an appearance in most narratives. And why call it a Squall state of mind? Why not a Vincent Valentine state of mind? Or an Amarant Coral state of mind? All of these characters fulfill the darker persona of their respective games' character quota; none of them have been made in a way that one attracts more interest than the other, none are even original. Most gamers just think that they can relate to Squall because we hear what he is thinking moreso than any other character.


As for the "c0mplc8d junshun sistm" everyone bitches about - what gives? I had it down pat in the first battle, possibly before then. I suppose those same people would prefer to put a game in and let itself play to the end, without having to actually *work* towards a conclusion.

Because someone doesn't grasp the mechanics of the games' system right away like you means that they aren't willing to learn and face up to, or would rather that there was no challenge? The junction system is definitely complicated to someone new to the game (it even took me until the Timber Forest Owls mission on my first play-through to understand it), especially when it comes after the much more simplistic Materia system of VII. I'll agree with you that the Junction system is a good feature of the game, though.


Whatever it is, it isn't gameplay, or so other jumped up teenie-bopper: "hee Dat is teh squal dummo i h8 8 mb yah woo hop" gibberish trash. Know what a word means before you start using it.

Again, you need to emphasise; how is it that the faults of the game rest on the undeveloped side of Squall's character? And again, supposedly quoting someone in jibberish language doesn't make an argument.


What bit of stupid dialogue was it that somebody pointed out in another thread earlier today --- I think it was "You big meanie!!!"

To be fair the phrase 'big meanie' has been used in a number of other games. It must be a Japanese thing. Agreed that it's fuckin' annoying though.

And sain your post isn't even worth scrutinising. There is not a single iota of intelligence within your ramblings that I could possibly even fathom to contest. You are, have always been, and always will be, a stupid fucking idiot.

And sain your post isn't even worth scrutinising. There is not a single iota of intelligence within your ramblings that I could possibly even fathom to contest. You are, have always been, and always will be, a stupid fucking idiot.
This is totally getting added to my signature as soon as I get done with what I'm doing with it currently.

zell uses his fist and is a shit head, ronia uses a cross bow and is a bitch, and thers a whole bunch of gay shit like whips, numchucks and a rifle. the only "good and logical" character taht u get to keep and don't only get to use at sertin points is squall, and even then his weapon is a gunblade. whitch is kinda cool buts theres no swords, spears or ax's. Hardly a fantasy.

Ronia, Numchucks, rifle. So there are two new weapons and a new character because as far as I remember it. We had Rinoa, and the weapons were nunchucks and a shotgun.

Also yes this game is not a fantasy at all. Because a man riding a six legged horse or a bird made of lightning or two minotaurs are all things that most people see in their daily lives.

Hell I got a lift to work today from a man on a six legged horse with a huge sword. He encountered any traffic he just slashed it to bits.

New boyfriend, xandy?

Hell I got a lift to work today from a man on a six legged horse with a huge sword. He encountered any traffic he just slashed it to bits.

Man - i hate it when that happends....always seems to be on a thursday?!?

Lukey Lukey Lukey...since when does anyone have to answer to you? So what if it's been done before, in the form of Vincent or whatever? Everything has been done before, in some form or another. I'm not flaming, I'm trying to be objective.

But you pine for my ultimate wisdom Lukey, I see that. Elements I thought were particularly good included the twist of more junctioning having a debilitating effect on a person's memory; the concept of time compression (even though it's completely ludicrous, it actually ends up working really well); Squall's background ie why he is such a loner; how (almost) every character has a distinct character flaw; seamless storyline that flows almost by itself; realistic character proportions (less cartoonish?); two stories - we join Squall as he follows (some of) Laguna's crazy moments....need I go on? Obviously you cared enough to play the whole game through, ergo it was a success. If you don't care about at least one of the characters, then I'll agree it probably isn't worth your time, so don't play it. I enjoyed all characters (except Selphie) - yes, even the shallow Rinoa. But the fact that she was shallow didn't make the overall gaming experience any less enjoyable for me. I loved everything that happened out in space, glad to see that Squall was starting to overcome his character flaw, and that Rinoa didn't die.

The limits of the on-screen display of the characters' facial expressions (out of FMV) should be ignored (or largely glossed over) if you truly want to delve into dialogue criticism. If you've ever read a decent fantasy novel, then you'll know what I'm talking about. See the faces moving in your mind's eye, the emotions and innuendo. A wince, a tear, even avoiding eye contact. Granted, you won't need to for one of Seifer's side-kicks, who simply states her feelings (eg. "RAGE!", sorry, her name eludes me). Maybe "You big meanie!" isn't half as bad as you might think.

In the end, people are different. Some will like some games, some will hate others. Some people have trouble getting Lulu's ultimate weapon, some people can't stand Excalibur II. The best games are defined by replayability, or ones that you don't want to trade back to the stores because you think it's too good to give up. I have such games, and I like to include FFVIII among their number.

What a bunch of crap. You attack people who criticize a game you like, and then you defend yourself with this nonsense? Pretty much everything you've posted has been addressed in the last five pages. Great job not reading the thread.

Lukey Lukey Lukey...since when does anyone have to answer to you?

What the fuck? When did I state that I demand answers from anyone? This is a debate thread, people post their opinions and then others retort and it builds from there. Your opinion was presented in a shitty way, so I asked to elaborate. If anything I was helping you get your point across better so that less people would think that you're a dickhead.


The limits of the on-screen display of the characters' facial expressions (out of FMV) should be ignored (or largely glossed over) if you truly want to delve into dialogue criticism. If you've ever read a decent fantasy novel, then you'll know what I'm talking about. See the faces moving in your mind's eye, the emotions and innuendo. A wince, a tear, even avoiding eye contact. Granted, you won't need to for one of Seifer's side-kicks, who simply states her feelings (eg. "RAGE!", sorry, her name eludes me). Maybe "You big meanie!" isn't half as bad as you might think.

I really don't know what the fuck you're going on about here. The only problem with dialogue that I hinted at in my post was the over-use of the phrase "big meanie", which is a lot more than just half bad.


The best games are defined by replayability, or ones that you don't want to trade back to the stores because you think it's too good to give up. I have such games, and I like to include FFVIII among their number.

I'll agree with you on this one. I must have replayed FFVIII about 10-12 times (I know, get a life) over the years and it has one of my most favourite and endearing universes I've found in a game. The storyline, in my opinion, is one of the most shit of the whole series, yet when I learned to overlook that I found that the world was very interesting and familiar. The undeveloped-ness of the lesser main characters, whether intentional or not by the developers, even serves as a bonus in some areas as it leaves a lot of things such as backgrounds (before/after the orphanage) open to interpretation. In the "Best and worst of Final Fantasy" thread over on General FF I named FFVIII as the worst FF, because despite the familiarity of it and the fact that it was pretty much the game that opened me up to other RPG/adventure games, it is still a very poor game in comparison to other RPGs (even though I know that FFVIII isn't strictly an RPG) and other FFs (even VII too).

I Just doesn't make sence to me. If they had guns Why not use them instead of a blade? If you have a fucking gun why not blow there head off instead of punhcing them.

I liked the junction system to be honest.

GFs owned and anyone could use them whitch was a plus.

I only wish that u could keep Laguna Loire. Like at some point they meet up, and his 2 little side kicks died, I never liked them

I Just doesn't make sence to me. If they had guns Why not use them instead of a blade?

Yet you name Gunblades as a plus for the game?


GFs owned and anyone could use them whitch was a plus.

I can understand if you enjoyed the animation of them, yet I don't understand how everyone being able to use them is such a triumph for the game. The only GFs worth using in the end are Cerberus for a quick way of distributing Aura among your party, and Doomtrain, as the status effects works well against human opponents (especially the Fujin/Raijin battles). The only other advantage that GFs have is the abilities that they can give you. Apart from that they all had a damage limit of 9999 bar two; Eden, who does awesome damage yet I don't personally use because of the excessive time limit, and Cactuar, who, at level 100, can do 10,000 damage. Yep, just 1 point over the limit.

Easily out-damaged by Limit Breaks.

Your post is barely readable, sain, so you'll forgive us if we basically ignore it and don't respond to it as usual, right?

Your post is barely readable, sain, so you'll forgive us if we basically ignore it and don't respond to it as usual, right?

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Your post is barely readable, sain, so you'll forgive us if we basically ignore it and don't respond to it as usual, right?

he actually says that it doesnt make any sense for Squall and other characters to use swords and similar weapons when Irvine or enemies use guns.
He says that he likes the junction system and he beilives that any character could use a GF is a plus for the game

We didn't need a translation, but thanks, I suppose.

I only wish that u could keep Laguna Loire. Like at some point they meet up, and his 2 little side kicks died, I never liked them

Dumbass.

FFVIII was the first FF I played, it has a special place in my heart I played it when I was 12 and whitout understending a single word of the history, but I fell in love graphics and battle system, to day I understand the history I kill ruby dragons like they were bite bugs, and for my eyes, FFVIII is perfec. I still cry when I see Raine Grave, and laugth when Zell choke eating hot dogs. I love the graphics, the characters are fun (like Laguna and Selphie) serius and filled with fellings, the history have those questions that good histories left like Rionoa really is Ultimencia??? the music, for me FFVIII has everythig

Okay I have to throw in my 2 cents here so bear with me.
I liked FFVIII for the most part. The plot was stellar till roughly after you beat edea then it kind goes down hill from there though it does have some redeeming value in it.
My biggest complaint were the graphics they glitched big time the Sniper scene is a classic example of what I am talking about.
But the game has so many good points its not even funny. The characters are were it really shines. I felt as I played each were a fragment of myself blow out of proportion and made into their own personality. Quistis was the teacher and enternal seeker, Sephline was my spunky side, Rinoa my hopless romantic, Zell my need to excel, Irvine my charmer side, Fujin my shy side, Raijin my follower, Seifer my showman, and Squall myself withdrawn and how I used to be. Each where me and made me love them and their interactions.

I love the weapons from the Gunblade to the whip, each has a unique charm while I might hold contempt for their unrealstic shapes I enjoyed their varied designs.

So to me while I might not hold it as a shinny example of a RPG or Final Fantasy it holds a special place in my heart.

Now I do have to bring up one thing. The dilagoue namely 'The big meanie' and 'RAGE' examples. The big meanie is said by Kids or by Selphine who reguarly acts immature it fits them.As for Rinoa saying that well lets not go there shall we? RAGE is said by Fujin the one eyed Albino who hangs with Seifer. She as far as I can tell either is a believer in small very short Sentences will express what you feel or VERY shy one of the two. But she later comes out near the end with a complex and very emotional speech that leaves you floored because you think she can only say 1 or 2 words not that. It was used to emphazie her speech it made it more forcefull to hear her say that.

This game may not be the best out there but it has some nice touches and design to it. It just needed a bit more polish for it to really shine.

Final fantasy viii started off half normal and by the end of the game it got very weird; but thats what final fantasy is, right?

Its probably my second favourite game ever, 7 being the first because it was my first and just reminds me of being 13.

Characters in VIII were well written out, well designed for a playstation game, all had their own personalities and IMO set the new standard for final fantasy games. In VII you had to do a lot of guessing and since I'm replaying it again lately I've noticed that other then Barrett, Tifa, Aeris and cloud, no other character really has much to say, thats half of your immediate character list. In VIII every character outside of Squall and Rinoa was central to the story, they didnt just show up and decide to tag along. This set the standard for the next 2 games (i have not played 12 yet so i cant comment), every character in X is central, its a close knit group, and its similar for IX aswell.

Music, decent, brings back memories.

Junction system, I liked it because it took a lot of work to become very powerful and there was always a possibility you could die unlike in VII where you could go into the crater and gain a lot of AP very quickly. In VIII you could guarantee your protection from status effects and have 9999 HP but to do some real damage without wasting Auras you had to leave Squall in yellow HP.

I liked the draw system, you wherent dependant on magic to win fights, but you where dependant on magic to buff up your characters to win those fights.

cards: rock. had me up for hours playing cards. didnt like the card system in IX, hated blitzball and was crap at spherebreak. Dont even mention the gold saucer.

The plot was indead very linear but I find that ultimately all FF games take you from A to B, so it doesnt really annoy me, if anything the plot in FFVIII was the winning part for me, I genuinely enjoyed the game.

One last thing...
Seifer > Kuja > Seymour.

Seifer kicked arse, IMO one of the best characters square has ever created.

One last thing...
Seifer > Kuja > Seymour.

Seifer kicked arse, IMO one of the best characters square has ever created.

He was a reasonable character, but as a villain he was a bit crap. Especially compared to Kuja and Seymour.

Thats because he wasn't a full fledged villain ;)

I hated Seymour, I dont know why but he just generally annoys me, everytime I replay FFX I dread having to go through the parts of the game he's in. guado-racism maybe?

Too many of the characters in this game were just blatant stereotypes of the type of character they wished to emulate. Instead of making a character that was introverted and somewhat of a loner while still being an original character with some sort of depth, they made a character that was the stereotypical loner seen in hundred of games and movies.

The junction system was complicated, although that does not make it bad. I liked the depth it added, making you think more about what you're doing and actually requiring you to have some sort of a strategy that was deeper than the materia system.

The GF's were just your garden variety (no pun intended) summons. They did you give abilities although there was nothing special about them to seperate them or make them any better, if anything worse, than many other summons from previous entries in the series.

And sain's a dumbass. That's self explanatory.

guado-racism maybe?

That's exactly it. The Labour Party will no doubt deny this though and move swiftly to encourage "multiculturalism", even in a fucking computer game. :rolleyes:

Hahaha. You'll have the BNP rallying to remove games from HMV that contain Guados and Ronsos because they arent white.

The game was good overall to me i got hooked to the story line very quickly though i always use to get stuck because i would run from enemies to much and my level would be low anywayz it was a good game and the caracter where good also i just wish they'd keep the same caracter for like three to four games like they did with 10, 11, 12

This was one of those games I dearly loved growing up. I must've played it over 3 dozen times. I did the same with just about all the final fantasy titles up through 9.

I read this thread from beginning to the end. One thing i noticed was people bashing the junction system and then bashing those who defended it. The big bash was that if you manipulated the cards right you could beat any monster extremely easily.

The truth is this is probably true. The fault with this is you would only know this going through the second or third time. People tend to figure out all the little quirks about a game after playing it repeated times. Thats what makes them fun.

The second fault with that is that all the bosses have a base level. I don't have the stats with me but say ultimecia started out at lvl 60, you couldn't go fight her and win at lvl 40. She would tear you up. Because all the boss' stats plateau, a player has to level to play the game. The Junctioning system just greases the wheels a bit so you don't have to grind for days to build yourself up. For this i thought the junctioning system was an extreme success.

The only real flaw I saw was the lack of detail in the big cities like estar. I think they should've put far more little side quests and detail into these big cities to really make it come alive. Thats one thing the did in FF9.

I also think the time compression on the forth disk was a big mistake. All you could do was finish the game and that was it. It was like having a waitress come up to your table and pickup your dishes before you finished your meal. I think access to the cities and more side quests where definitely called for.

As far as the question of characters lacking in substance. The story and the game play feed off each other to create an experience. That's what makes a good game. If a character was or wasn't used at one point in the game it was for the good of the storyline. The game creators intended for the game players to feel a certain way when playing the game. If you think squall was weak, whinny, or dickless at any one part then that was what you were ment to feel. People need to remember this was a game for kids. Most kids don't think at a mature romantic level. So, then to have a guy thats unsure about what he's doing and then suddenly realize and fight for what he wants, works.

I've almost completed reading the entire thread here (yeah, I'm bored enough to do that), have the following to say:

*I'm still playing this game for the first time (just got my hands on it a short while ago), nearing the end of disc 3, so take that in mind.

*Are the characters terribly original? No. Are there plot problems/character development weaknesses? Yeah. Do I still absolutely love the story here? Yeah.

*Why? Because I do. Originality and depth, while good things, aren't 100% required for EVERYTHING. Sometimes people want to see something nice, and sometimes depth goes out the window for that. Personally, I LOVE the story of Squall and Rinoa, no matter how problematic the originality and depth are. And this coming from someone who reads ALOT and has read some mighty fine works in the past...I know quality. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the old, but good, story of "introverted, but deep-down good knight falling for the spunky princess who has an ass-kicking tomboy streak, but still girly inside." Its that they follow this line of romance as expected....I like that. Its what I WANTED to see. If I want romance stories and action that'll blast presuppositions, I'll go watch Saikano. If I want classic RPG fighting action and story, I'll go and play FF VI (LOVE that game, btw....one of my favorite FF's). If I want to listen to good FF music, I'll just listen to my FF music compilation and make a playlist out of my favorite tracks from across all the FF games and music re-orchestrations (like one winged angel live followed by maria and draco, followed by eyes on me.....then tina in full orchestration, black mage's redo of battle across big bridge....you get my point).

Point is that while I don't disagree with those who've shredded the story and expressed complaints....I still disagree that those things they disliked were real negatives in the end. Objectively, yeah they could be, but that's not how we humans percieve things. Emotions and opinions cloud objectivity in the end, and in the end, FF8 was (and is) captivating and just drew me in like a bear to honey and a salmon-stocked river. It has its problems, yes. But the story and the decent-enough battle system (gives me headaches when I least want them, but overall I like the concept and mix of ideas in it....no RPG battle system will ever be perfect....except maybe the KotOR system, which I so dearly love), just keeps me coming back to the game over and over and over again. Its like the little kid being read "The Princess Bride"....at the end, no matter how cheesy the story was, he still ended up loving the romance/story in it, and the knight and princess being together. FF8 plays on the same draw, and plays it in the way time has shown it to work, and not fiddle with the delivery. I knew from the beginning that rinoa would grow on squall, it was plain as day...but I still couldn't take my eyes away and keep playing JUST TO SEE IT HAPPEN.

So, yeah. That's my opinion on the game. I still love it, flaws and all. Though the FMVs are simply gorgeous, IMO.

Yes, they were the best in it's time, especially the beginning. I remember all the fuss over it when the game was first released.

Heck, even in today's CGI world, the opening blew me away. It's as good, if not a little better than some other excellent opening cinematics of more recent games. I'd say it's on the scale of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion's opening (though that was done using ES4's in-game graphics engine....so the tech is obviously at a massively larger level), which goes to show just how good E-S did when producing FFVIII's FMV's at the time they did.

Skipping all of the other replies, my opinion on FFVIII and what made it fall for me is a combination of things.

First, unlike older rpg's and even newer ones, you can't just build levels and gain power to be able to defeat the monsters and villains in the area, or plan for the next area where you'll want to be stronger. Doing so would only enable the monsters to gain levels and become more dangerous. It was less like an rpg and more like a action/adventure game. No matter how many creatures you kill, Lara Croft is just as easy to kill, herself.

Secondly, the card game was a little annoying. The first few times through the game, I managed to pick up undesired status changes to how the card game was played (ie random cards). It took away from some things where it could have been more enjoyable a playthrough.

Thirdly, I just couldn't get into the characters. I know they were a little better designed, graphically as well as in-story, but I could not drive myself to really care. I cared about Tidus' and Yuna's relationship and how they would end up in FFX, but I couldn't care too much for Squal and Rinoa.

Speaking of Rinoa, Fourthly, her dog made me think of Mega Man a little too much. What were they thinking when they designed that thing?

That's about it for now...

Heck, even in today's CGI world, the opening blew me away. It's as good, if not a little better than some other excellent opening cinematics of more recent games. I'd say it's on the scale of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion's opening (though that was done using ES4's in-game graphics engine....so the tech is obviously at a massively larger level), which goes to show just how good E-S did when producing FFVIII's FMV's at the time they did.
True. I still love watching it.

It was less like an rpg and more like a action/adventure game.

I've long argued that the entire series is mislabeled and that all such games actually are a form of adventure game. The key point of this argument is that the RPG genre was originally defined by free-form character development, which none of those Japanese games possess, and even the best western games can only partially emulate.

Would you classify a game like WoW a true RPG?

WoW is what I would call a sandbox. It gives the potential for real role-playing, but doesn't force it on players.

Hmmm. I honestly never played WoW before, but I do play Knight Online and some people say it's kinda like WoW. What games do you know that would classify as a 'true' RPG?

What about Ragnarok Online?
Could you be more specific on your definition of a "true" RPG? I've never thought of the FF series that way.

I remember him talking about that, but I can't remember in which thread though.

I believe you guys are thinking of this thread (Thread 29666), which would probably be the best place to continue the discussion if you want to. It hasn't been all that long (less than two months) since someone last posted in it, so I guess it could be revived if necessary.

Now I understand, thanks. I guess the closest things to RPGs I've ever played are Ragnarok Online and TES3: Morrowind. o_O'

Back to the topic, I agree with TheTransporter's opinion, FF8 needed more sub-/side quests like in FF9, and I didn't like the time compression much.

Also, I think the second disc was too short. I accidentally blew through it in like, five minutes or something, whereas the first disc took me several hours. I just didn't save and went back looking for sub-quests, cards, and items before proceeding to the third disc. (What was the deal with that?)

As far as the opening video, I extracted it and converted it into WMV9 VCM format using Bink. I don't know how to remove that audio junk inthe center channel, but dang, that video rocks my socks!!!
Playing around with the game some more, I put the scene where Rinoa and Squall try to dance together at the beginning of disc one together with the bg music that runs with it and it came out pretty cool.

Def one of my all the fav games ever. I absolutely loved the atmosphere and how unique it was (The town of Deling compared to Esthar, the design of the Gardens, the war scenes, going into the future and seeing Seed fighting Ultimecia, etc). Also had some of the most amazing scenes in any game (The opening scene, the Dollet invasion, seeing the past of Laguna, Squall and Rinoa in space, Eyes on Me ending, party at the credits, etc) and the junction system, once understood, was a customizers dream. Then theres the music, the card game, the characters and the plot.

Of course it has its flaws. Long GF summons (Eden...lawl), Ultimecia is introduced way too late to be a boss we can care for, and the junction system can take a while to understand.

This game stands as a masterpiece.

No sequel is required. No movie desired.

I considered myself truly satisfied when the credits began to roll. The game ties itself up nicely and the conclusion actually brings closure - Something that few RPGs manage.

Perhaps I am a 'fanboy', but more than likely not. It has it's flaws, but it is by far the best FF game to-date. I will continue to consider VII as a great warm-up to this epic game.

This game stands as a masterpiece.

No sequel is required. No movie desired.

I considered myself truly satisfied when the credits began to roll. The game ties itself up nicely and the conclusion actually brings closure - Something that few RPGs manage.

Perhaps I am a 'fanboy', but more than likely not. It has it's flaws, but it is by far the best FF game to-date. I will continue to consider VII as a great warm-up to this epic game.

I am probably one of the game's more enthusiastic critics here. I see FFVIII as a desperately poor game by the standards of the series.

Let's get started with the game's main weakness. It starts superbly with the first two discs, but the third disc is so gut-wrenchingly hard to endure that by the time you get to the fourth disc (which is actually worth playing) you've pretty much gone off the game altogether.

The third disc of FFVIII is without doubt the worst part of any FF game I have ever played. For a start, the plot becomes increasingly absurd. Whilst I commend Square for trying to give it an interesting plot twist, it's so abysmally handled that it makes you wish they hadn't bothered.

Instead of trying to build on the good work of the first two discs, what happens instead is what feels like a completely new game. Essentially, by turning the game on its head, Square have basically forced themselves to try and write a game in two discs, and thus shot themselves in the foot. Character development which up until that point had been well-paced and interesting becomes rushed and entirely out of character. What's more, the over-emphasis on trying to completely change Squall's character means that the other characters are neglected. Apart from Rinoa, none of the other characters see any development after disc 2, and in most cases, very little before it.

My other main gripe is the Junction system. It's just too open to abuse. I've heard the counter-argument that it takes more than one playthrough to master. That's just nonsense I'm afraid. All the important parts of it are included in tutorials throughout the game and anyone with half a brain can grasp it quite easily.

And also, the refining abilities make the game too easy to beat, even for first timers. L-Mag RF plus Tent (which most people would have in their inventory) makes for easy Curagas at lower levels. Hence, you can get over 3000 HP at early levels and thus make the vast majority of the first 2 discs a piece of cake.

And how about being able to draw Regen from Biggs and Wedge from the D-District Prison for 4-5000 HP? This being at the start of Disc 2, where most bosses have less HP.

The bosses become more difficult later on but by that time most people will have mastered the Junction system. People make it sound complicated-it isn't, it's just a matter of trial and error. That does not require much skill.

Considering that FFVII had an adaptable yet unbroken system in the Materia whilst Square had made many simple yet effective battle systems in the past FF games, the abomination of gameplay that was the Junction system just cannot be excused. Even FFXII's licence board isn't as open to abuse, and I have been pretty damn critical of that.

Now forgive me if I come across as somewhat harsh here. However, in my book, for a game to qualify as a 'masterpiece' it needs to get nothing wrong, or at least nothing majorly wrong. FFVIII gets a lot wrong, including the characters (a major part of an FF game). Frankly, it was a step back from FFVII. Despite the fact FFVII had plot-holes, FFVIII was still inferior because it almost didn't have the guts to risk leaving a plot hole by avoiding exploration of any characters bar Squall, Rinoa and possibly Edea.

In my opinion, FFVIII is one of the worst games in the series. Not without it's merits but nowhere near as complete a game as IX or X.

I think that the story had a lot of good potential. What initially ruined FFVIII's chance at bigger success was the poor character development.
+ The character interaction seemed too bland.
+ 6 of the main characters shared the exact same back story.
+ Squall and Rinoa's relationship was artificial and immature and it clashed with the plot.
+ I often mistook the main character for the antagonist on account of his bitter, self centered attitude (sarcasm duh).

The gameplay was ordinary and likable, but it was counterbalanced with a lack of good gameplay qualities like mini games and sidequests. I know, I know, the sidequests that the game had were somewhat enjoyable, e.g. Triple Triad, Ultima and Omega, a few hidden GFs...I just wasn't all too captivated though. I was sorely disappointed that there were no (good) chocobo sidequests, and there weren't any moogles. Period.

What made the game enjoyable to me was the newly introverted junction system. It was like an amplified version of FFVII's materia allotment. It made the game a little too easy, but it was a new twist.

love ff8 but there are some downfalls in my opinion

as it has been stated already the minimal menu options in battle.

and I was a bit confused at first with the junction system.

Ultemecia could have been more involved because you have no idea what she looks like till the end of the game for one.

one thing though that really bugs is squalls face was not rendered well enough

I have the pc version so IDK if it is different or not but his face in regular game play looks a little messed up but everyone else's was pretty much fine.


other than I love it and wish it would have gotten more of a popularity rate with FF fans

It is a very common thing in Final Fantasy for you not to see the final boss at all until the end; look at FFII (for the most part,) FFIV, FFIX, and FFX. It's a very common plot device in these games to have a surprise villain at the end. That is not really what's wrong with FFVIII; Ceidwad's complaints mostly illustrate the game's problems. I very much enjoyed playing it, but that's because I play FF games to master them rather than to experience a challenge, and I was able to look past the very sloppy character development because I spent so much more time playing cards then caring about the plot.

...I spent so much more time playing cards then caring about the plot.

Triple Triad was good, wasn't it. =)

Triple Triad was good, wasn't it. =)

I'd say it was one of the game's two truly bright spots; its music is the other.

The Ragnarok is the third.

Music > Balamb Garden > Triple Triad > Selphie = Xu > Ragnarok > Geezard > LAWL. GF MEMORY RELAPSE > Shuffle or Boogie (Theme of Triple Triad)

The Ragnarok would have been a cool airship if it didn't travel at such a lethargic speed. It wasn't as bad as the Garden but it was still fairly frustrating.

To be honest, I found that the final dungeon was far and away the highlight of the game. The design and atmosphere is fantastic with gameplay elements reminiscent of Kefka's tower in FFVI and features a fairly climactic (if not especially difficult) final boss battle. My only complaint is that damn painting puzzle.

I hated the final dungeon. It felt like a cheap way of adding an extra two hours to a game that should have been about five hours shorter. Instead of intelligently designing the enemies you fight to be at least a little challenging (the game's horrible balance is its own can of worms), the game simply takes all your abilities away and laughs like that bully kid from The Simpsons--"Haaa, Haaaa!" To add insult to injury, once you finally slog through it, you're rewarded by having to either water down your party for the final boss battle or hoping the game gives you at least one of your good characters to fight with.

To be fair, dungeons that restrict your abilities have been a reoccurring gameplay element in the series since IV. I think there are 5 titles that have them (IV, VI, VIII, IX and XII, off the top of my head). Personally I kind of like them, since they force you to approach battles from a different direction. It doesn't work as well in FFVIII since there are only a couple of necessary abilities anyway (once you've unlocked limits and magic you're pretty much set) but it did result in a couple of bosses being a mild challenge in what had otherwise been an effortless game.

Yeah, the randomized party members was a little annoying but the chances of being lumped with all 3 of the characters you never used are very low (5% chance, if I calculated that right) and it's an easy enough task to just kill off the characters you didn't use until you come up with your main party. It's not something I found especially frustrating, by any means.

you're rewarded by having to either water down your party for the final boss battle or hoping the game gives you at least one of your good characters to fight with.
Or just kill off the characters you don't wanna use if the game selects ones that aren't set up well initially, like Throne said. You didn't know you could do that?

Yes, there is that allowance, but I think it's rather stupid, personally. If you want to force the player to use characters other than the top three, give some warning about it, really.

Oh, and I don't know about you guys, but along the lines of dungeons that restrict your abilities, I @#$%#$ HATED OEILVERT. A LOT.

To be fair, dungeons that restrict your abilities have been a reoccurring gameplay element in the series since IV.

I've never said they were good, either. At any rate, VI's "restrict you" dungeon was optional, and had a Umaro-sized loophole, to boot. Besides, by that point in the game, it should be relatively easy to set up at least three characters capable of spamming 9999 magic attacks. IX's dungeon also gave you plenty of advance warning, so only an illiterate or somebody just not paying attention would send a party containing Vivi, Eiko, or Garnet. At that point in the game, they're not exactly powerhouses anyway.


Or just kill off the characters you don't wanna use if the game selects ones that aren't set up well initially, like Throne said. You didn't know you could do that?

You insult me, Agent. My point was that the designers at that point of the game had relied upon cheap tricks to drag out the game, artifically making it just that little bit longer, when it was probably too long to begin with. Of course, the audience Squeenix was aiming for eats that sort of thing up, so it isn't as if I can totally blame them.

Fair enough.

I've never said they were good, either.
I know, but from your comment you seemed to be implying that the designers purely came up with the restricts to make up for FFVIII's broken battle system. I only brought up the previous games to show that by that point restrictive dungeons weren't a new concept, so perhaps they just added it in for the same reason they added it to the other games: for variety.

At any rate, VI's "restrict you" dungeon was optional, and had a Umaro-sized loophole, to boot. Besides, by that point in the game, it should be relatively easy to set up at least three characters capable of spamming 9999 magic attacks.
It's similarly easy to avoid get around restrictions in Ultimecia's Castle by making sure that Limit breaks and magic are the first and second abilities you release, since those are the only two abilities you really need to be at full power anyway.

IX's dungeon also gave you plenty of advance warning, so only an illiterate or somebody just not paying attention would send a party containing Vivi, Eiko, or Garnet. At that point in the game, they're not exactly powerhouses anyway.
Sure, but even if you don't bring along a gimped character you still have the disadvantage of not being able to heal, which is the source of the added challenge for that dungeon.


My point was that the designers at that point of the game had relied upon cheap tricks to drag out the game, artifically making it just that little bit longer, when it was probably too long to begin with. Of course, the audience Squeenix was aiming for eats that sort of thing up, so it isn't as if I can totally blame them.
Do either of the designs really drag out the game by any significant length? Maybe the first battle where you can only use physical attacks against the Sphinx, but once you get your limit breaks back you can take bosses out in around the same amount of time you usually would anyway. As previously mentioned, it doesn't really take that much time to come up with your favored set of characters in the final battle either. I'm not saying this design (or at least the latter one) isn't at least somewhat flawed. I just don't think it's a big deal.

Oh, and I don't know about you guys, but along the lines of dungeons that restrict your abilities, I @#$%#$ HATED OEILVERT. A LOT.

Let me guess. You made the wrong choices back then? :P





Sure, but even if you don't bring along a gimped character you still have the disadvantage of not being able to heal, which is the source of the added challenge for that dungeon.



Did I miss something here? Where and when you cannot heal? :/ In Memoria, or in the Crystal World?

I usually use only Steiner, Zidane, Vivi and Quina for Memoria and upwards :/

In Oeilvert. You can't use magic, so healing is restricted to items only. Sorry, I should have said 'heal efficiently'.

Let me guess. You made the wrong choices back then? :P


Not at all. I just hated the dungeon in general. It was a very stupid kind of "run back and forth and get attacked by annoying enemies repeatedly" dungeon, and I rather like being able to use magic.

It's similarly easy to avoid get around restrictions in Ultimecia's Castle by making sure that Limit breaks and magic are the first and second abilities you release, since those are the only two abilities you really need to be at full power anyway.

That's not "getting around restrictions." That's just unlocking your strongest abilities first. Granted, with Limits and Magic, you probably won't have to unlock any others, but the fact remains that you're restricted for no real reason. At least Oeilvert was explained.


Sure, but even if you don't bring along a gimped character you still have the disadvantage of not being able to heal, which is the source of the added challenge for that dungeon.

I have three words for you: Chakra. Chemist. Healer.


Do either of the designs really drag out the game by any significant length?

If you're at all anal-retentive, like many jRPG players, then yes, it most definitely does. But my point isn't about just how much these things lengthen the game--I'm making a larger point that the game is too long to begin with, and that sort of extra filler is just to drag it out just a little bit more, so that Squeenix can advertise the game's length to its target audience.

That's not "getting around restrictions." That's just unlocking your strongest abilities first. Granted, with Limits and Magic, you probably won't have to unlock any others, but the fact remains that you're restricted for no real reason. At least Oeilvert was explained.
Does it really need a particular thorough explanation? Unless my memory has failed me, they don’t really explain why you can only use magic on the fanatic tower in FFVI either. Or why you are force to seal off one of your abilities for part of the Pharos in FFXII.

I have three words for you: Chakra. Chemist. Healer.
I’ll concede on that point. I don’t really remember how much extra effort it required to beat the dungeon using items instead of white magic.

If you're at all anal-retentive, like many jRPG players, then yes, it most definitely does. But my point isn't about just how much these things lengthen the game--I'm making a larger point that the game is too long to begin with, and that sort of extra filler is just to drag it out just a little bit more, so that Squeenix can advertise the game's length to its target audience.
I don’t really see why Square’s intentions are an issue. If your criticism is “the game is too long and the final dungeon makes it longer” then really your issue is with the game as a whole and not the final dungeon itself. I don’t think it takes any longer to complete FFVIII’s final dungeon then most other games, and as previously mentioned you only really need to win a couple of abilities back anyway, at which point you can just run through the rest of the dungeon straight to the final boss. As for the battle itself, if you found the extra 2 minutes or so it takes to gain your main party during the final battle particularly bothersome, I guess all I can really say is that I disagree.

Does it really need a particular thorough explanation? Unless my memory has failed me, they don’t really explain why you can only use magic on the fanatic tower in FFVI either. Or why you are force to seal off one of your abilities for part of the Pharos in FFXII.

I'm not saying a deep, lengthy discourse is necessary--look at Oeilvert. Short, simple, and to the point--Kuja tells you there's an anti-magic field. That's an example of one of the reasons why I think FFIX is better than VI--the little things. But that's not a discussion for this thread. The fact is, no matter how many other times it's been done, arbitrarily restricting the player with no explanation is bad.


I’ll concede on that point. I don’t really remember how much extra effort it required to beat the dungeon using items instead of white magic.

With a proper Amarant set-up, you can almost do it without bothering with items. Chakra heals well enough for the regular battles, and if he's learned Healer, you won't even need to bother with Chakra, as he can just bash your party into good health, lol.


I don’t really see why Square’s intentions are an issue. If your criticism is “the game is too long and the final dungeon makes it longer” then really your issue is with the game as a whole and not the final dungeon itself. I don’t think it takes any longer to complete FFVIII’s final dungeon then most other games, and as previously mentioned you only really need to win a couple of abilities back anyway, at which point you can just run through the rest of the dungeon straight to the final boss.

I've already made the point about the whole "arbitarily restricting the player" thing, so yeah, I do have a problem with the final dungeon itself, even if it's only for its terrible design. But the fact of the matter is, many (if not most) jRPG players are at least a little bit OCD about completing things like that. Especially if you don't set up your party to just spam Limit Breaks, like I did my last playthrough. As a result, my trek through the last dungeon took me a lot longer than just unlocking two abilities and dashing for Ultimecia. It didn't seem like I was getting much of anything accomplished, either. It was rather like searching for the TV Remote or your car keys when you've misplaced them. Talk about a great way to cap off a game that was too long thanks to the stupid filler material littering the previous three discs.


As for the battle itself, if you found the extra 2 minutes or so it takes to gain your main party during the final battle particularly bothersome, I guess all I can really say is that I disagree.

Like having all your abilities taken away in the dungeon itself, the random party thing was just another unexplained, unexpected, arbitary restriction on the player. In my personal experience, it felt to me almost as if the designers knew that the boss wouldn't put up much of a fight and threw that little "wrinkle" in just to thumb their noses at me. Especially after I got my main party back and the boss didn't put up a fight at all, really.

I'm not saying a deep, lengthy discourse is necessary--look at Oeilvert. Short, simple, and to the point--Kuja tells you there's an anti-magic field. That's an example of one of the reasons why I think FFIX is better than VI--the little things. But that's not a discussion for this thread. The fact is, no matter how many other times it's been done, arbitrarily restricting the player with no explanation is bad.
To be fair, there is an explanation. I believe that before you enter the castle a message comes across the screen that says something to the effect of “Ultimecia has sealed your powers”. She’s a sorceress, and can apparently do that. It’s not a good explanation perhaps, but it isn’t like you walked into the castle only to find you could only use the attack command.

I've already made the point about the whole "arbitarily restricting the player" thing, so yeah, I do have a problem with the final dungeon itself, even if it's only for its terrible design.
But your only real complaint about the sealed abilities seemed to be that it makes the game slightly longer, and the reason you stated as to why that was a problem was the game was too long already.

But the fact of the matter is, many (if not most) jRPG players are at least a little bit OCD about completing things like that.
So much so that they would go out of their way to do something they don’t want to? I think you would have a hard time backing up a statement like that.

Especially if you don't set up your party to just spam Limit Breaks, like I did my last playthrough. As a result, my trek through the last dungeon took me a lot longer than just unlocking two abilities and dashing for Ultimecia. It didn't seem like I was getting much of anything accomplished, either. It was rather like searching for the TV Remote or your car keys when you've misplaced them.
But then, you didn’t have to put that restriction on yourself. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a game to accommodate for people who purposely don’t make full use of the battle system.

Like having all your abilities taken away in the dungeon itself, the random party thing was just another unexplained, unexpected, arbitary restriction on the player. In my personal experience, it felt to me almost as if the designers knew that the boss wouldn't put up much of a fight and threw that little "wrinkle" in just to thumb their noses at me. Especially after I got my main party back and the boss didn't put up a fight at all, really.
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree that for whatever reason they decided force you to use all party members it wasn’t a great decision considering how the rest of the game is designed. But to me the fact that it takes so little time to rectify meant that I didn’t really think it was a big deal. There isn’t really anything much else I can say beyond that I guess.

To be fair, there is an explanation. I believe that before you enter the castle a message comes across the screen that says something to the effect of �Ultimecia has sealed your powers�. She�s a sorceress, and can apparently do that. It�s not a good explanation perhaps, but it isn�t like you walked into the castle only to find you could only use the attack command.

Hey, I missed that one. I guess it'd be a double standard if I griped about that, but couldn't there have been a way of letting the player know without breaking the fourth wall? The game is supposed to be an RPG (yes Prak, I know), after all.


But your only real complaint about the sealed abilities seemed to be that it makes the game slightly longer, and the reason you stated as to why that was a problem was the game was too long already.

What, you missed my grumbling about bad design? "Arbitrarily restricting the player?"


So much so that they would go out of their way to do something they don�t want to? I think you would have a hard time backing up a statement like that.

Do you want examples of people I've talked to who've done exactly that?


But then, you didn�t have to put that restriction on yourself. I don�t think it�s reasonable to expect a game to accommodate for people who purposely don�t make full use of the battle system.

The battle system is brand new can of worms to be opening for this discussion. If players were intended to spam Limit Breaks like that, then in the interests of balance, either they would be weaker or the enemies you unleash them upon would be far stronger. The battle system's poor design had been taken out and beaten (and beaten again) in previous pages in this very thread, so I won't go there again--nor do I particularly want to.


I understand what you�re saying, and I agree that for whatever reason they decided force you to use all party members it wasn�t a great decision considering how the rest of the game is designed. But to me the fact that it takes so little time to rectify meant that I didn�t really think it was a big deal. There isn�t really anything much else I can say beyond that I guess.

I'm not saying it was a huge hassle to get your main guys back; that's not the point. It's the whole "arbitrarily screwing with the player" thing. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason behind it, and even less warning. Again, bad design. That's all.

Hey, I missed that one. I guess it'd be a double standard if I griped about that, but couldn't there have been a way of letting the player know without breaking the fourth wall? The game is supposed to be an RPG (yes Prak, I know), after all.
They could have, I guess. Although, I think most of the gameplay-oriented elements within the game were explained through breaking the 4th wall.

What, you missed my grumbling about bad design? "Arbitrarily restricting the player?"
I saw it, but I thought the reason that you thought it was dumb to “arbitrarily restrict the player” was that it ended up making the game even longer. Beyond that, I don’t really know what there is to complain about. I mean, you say ‘arbitrary’ but it wasn’t done without reason. The idea was that it was supposed to make the dungeon more challenging. As you said, if you understand the battle system it isn’t any more challenging but then as I said if you understand the battle system the restrictions aren’t going to effect you a whole lot anyway.


Do you want examples of people I've talked to who've done exactly that?
I’m sure there are people who do things like that. However, I don’t really think it’s fair to take a select group of people you know and state that their methodology is reflective of the whole fanbase. I certainly don’t go out of my way to complete extra content if I’m overly fed up with the game in question. Similarly, I can’t really prove that you’re wrong either, but I think I would need to see some sort of evidence that a large proportion of JRPG fans are that obsessive when it comes to completing everything before I was able to accept it.

The battle system is brand new can of worms to be opening for this discussion. If players were intended to spam Limit Breaks like that, then in the interests of balance, either they would be weaker or the enemies you unleash them upon would be far stronger. The battle system's poor design had been taken out and beaten (and beaten again) in previous pages in this very thread, so I won't go there again--nor do I particularly want to.
I see your point. However, I’m not sure that spamming limit breaks was entirely unintentional on the part of the developers. I mean, why else would they put a spell like Aura in the game? I think the part that was unintentional rather, was how much damage physical attacks can cause through junctioning high amounts of magic to your strength. If you didn’t cause so much damage with physical attacks, then it would have taken far longer to kill bosses with limit breaks. I agree though that this is old territory that doesn’t really need to be brought up again though and it’s generally just suffice to say ‘the battle system is broken’.

I'm not saying it was a huge hassle to get your main guys back; that's not the point. It's the whole "arbitrarily screwing with the player" thing. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason behind it, and even less warning. Again, bad design. That's all.

Well, there is some reasoning behind it. The idea is that it allows all characters to take part in the final battle in some way, similar to FFVI. Considering that the final dungeon utilized both parties, I wasn’t really surprised when it happened. I agree however that it doesn’t work since it assumes that you spread your GFs and junctions across all characters, and the way the battle system is designed you don’t ever have to do that. But once again, despite the fact that it is a flaw and they probably should have put more thought into it, it didn’t bother me that much since it doesn’t take long very long to fix. I’m not bringing that up to try and justify their poor decisions, but rather just justify why I still like the dungeon despite said flaw.

The story part:
I think Ultimecia was the best villain ever. She wasn't dragging you with her and made you know you're connected like some kuja or sappiroth. You really were unimportant to her (just a piece in her puzzle like everyone else) and that cold hatred glorifies her (as a top threat). She's literally minding her own business yet your life is all about her(good replay value(Oh, I love the FMV when "Edea" "smells" her hands before she makes the big bad speech)). She is so real.


Gameplay:
FF8 is fresh and liquid. GFs are overall to long but that adds to their respect. (I did occasionally wish they would be harder to use and more powerful, though.)

The limit breaks were too easy to get later in the game but they are mostly cool and pretty.

Drawing and leveling the monsters was actually a great idea since one normally searches for magic because he/she searches for power (and than you are stronger than others). But you level up to get a rank higher and at higher ranks things are more challenging (levels present challenges). It's actually very logical.

The trick is that if you wanted to enjoy FF8 you did and you balanced stuff well. If you can't handle the freedom you made it boring yourself.
Which again resembles reality.
Why most people couldn't enjoy FF8 is because they played other FFs first and they acted accordingly to them instead of FF8.


Everything about FF8 is realistic which is a great thing if you want to distance yourself from your own world for a while and don't buy far fetched things so easily.
I think FF8 shows the feel of reality best it could be on ps. And the choice of teens for it is perfect(or at least symbolic) because they are the ones who face it.

(oh and 'the extreme' is easily my favorite piece of music overall)

The story part:
I think Ultimecia was the best villain ever. She wasn't dragging you with her and made you know you're connected like some kuja or sappiroth. You really were unimportant to her (just a piece in her puzzle like everyone else) and that cold hatred glorifies her (as a top threat). She's literally minding her own business yet your life is all about her(good replay value(Oh, I love the FMV when "Edea" "smells" her hands before she makes the big bad speech)). She is so real.

And yet you ignore the terrible plot twist? GJ.



Gameplay:
FF8 is fresh and liquid.

And horribly broken. What do you mean by "liquid?"


The limit breaks were too easy to get later in the game but they are mostly cool and pretty.

And overpowered.


Drawing and leveling the monsters was actually a great idea since one normally searches for magic because he/she searches for power (and than you are stronger than others). But you level up to get a rank higher and at higher ranks things are more challenging (levels present challenges). It's actually very logical.

And horribly broken, as explained several times in this very thread. Reading is tech.


Why most people couldn't enjoy FF8 is because they played other FFs first and they acted accordingly to them instead of FF8.

Or because it's bad. Flip back a page or two if you want reasons why.


Everything about FF8 is realistic which is a great thing if you want to distance yourself from your own world for a while and don't buy far fetched things so easily.

Gunblades? Using melee weapons when your enemies have submachine guns? Totally realistic.

And yet you ignore the terrible plot twist? GJ.
Of course, I was pointing out the good of my favorite game, not the bad.



And horribly broken. What do you mean by "liquid?"

And horribly broken, as explained several times in this very thread. Reading is tech.
Horribly broken? All other FFs tried something new (but under the safe line) while FF8 tried a whole lot of it. I commend them for that because that's how legendary games are born. It just so happens they didn't finish the game and made a whole lot of unbalanced things both in storyline as in gameplay. I was more of details hunter when I played FF8 so terrible plot twist wasn't so bad for me. You do have plenty of connections they just aren't obvious for an average player.
Because of unbalanced gameplay I found the game easier to play with whatever way I wanted. (If you want a challenge you just modify your junction.) That's liquid. Because FF8's gameplay and storyline is easy to slip but does most shapes if you can handle it.



And overpowered.
If they were more difficult to build that wouldn't be the problem. But fine, it's both partially(power and rarity) instead of one strongly wrong. :rolleyes:



Or because it's bad. Flip back a page or two if you want reasons why.
I had most fun with FF8 and I played FFs from 7 to x-2 and ff1. I doubt all those posts will gonna say anything I don't know yet. But, I'll check them out if I'll have time.



Gunblades? Using melee weapons when your enemies have submachine guns? Totally realistic.
Well, than Sephiroth was a piece of cake for Barret. Maybe It's more difficult to beat GF shield (the non-summoning one) with a Gunblade than 3 seconds of bullet rain.

Just a general reminder, since there was some question about it, that this thread is on the Forum Charter, and threads on the Charter may be replied to / revived at any time.

Of course, I was pointing out the good of my favorite game, not the bad.

Nice logic. :rolleyes:

Putting your hands over your eyes and ears and ignoring the bad points of something is a trait a FF7 fanboy would be proud of. Well played sir.


Horribly broken? All other FFs tried something new (but under the safe line) while FF8 tried a whole lot of it. I commend them for that because that's how legendary games are born. It just so happens they didn't finish the game and made a whole lot of unbalanced things both in storyline as in gameplay. I was more of details hunter when I played FF8 so terrible plot twist wasn't so bad for me. You do have plenty of connections they just aren't obvious for an average player.
Because of unbalanced gameplay I found the game easier to play with whatever way I wanted. (If you want a challenge you just modify your junction.) That's liquid. Because FF8's gameplay and storyline is easy to slip but does most shapes if you can handle it.

I don't even get what you're saying here. But the simple matter is, a game that DOESNT require you to train whatsoever, is full of overpowered attacks that make no enemy in the game difficult is hopelessly broken.



I had most fun with FF8 and I played FFs from 7 to x-2 and ff1. I doubt all those posts will gonna say anything I don't know yet. But, I'll check them out if I'll have time.

That's all well and good, but it has nothing to do with how good something is. I have fun getting drunk, it doesnt mean its a good thing to do. I enjoy watching Predator 2, even though its an abomination of a movie.



Well, than Sephiroth was a piece of cake for Barret. Maybe It's more difficult to beat GF shield (the non-summoning one) with a Gunblade than 3 seconds of bullet rain.

Congratulations, you have officially confused the hell out of me.

Nice logic. :rolleyes:

Putting your hands over your eyes and ears and ignoring the bad points of something is a trait a FF7 fanboy would be proud of. Well played sir.
First of all, I said I liked the plot side with Ultimecia and I explained why. I got a reply saying I ignored the terrible plot twist. How could I take such an inconsiderate comment seriously? Of course I haven't forgotten about the twist. It didn't bother me at all. So I made a "just because" type of an answer. If you had read, you'd have known. Btw, I'm an ff8 fan not ff7 fan (but I did enjoy ff7 too).



I don't even get what you're saying here. But the simple matter is, a game that DOESNT require you to train whatsoever, is full of overpowered attacks that make no enemy in the game difficult is hopelessly broken.
That's all well and good, but it has nothing to do with how good something is. I have fun getting drunk, it doesnt mean its a good thing to do. I enjoy watching Predator 2, even though its an abomination of a movie. OMG, I was saying that drawing magic is tons better way of training than running around and killing same monsters. (Square even took care of the money problem (killing too few monsters for money) by adding salary.) The system is my favorite of all games. Besides, there are GF menu abilities for getting magic so you don't even need to draw(train) when battles are too difficult. Besides, if drawing sucks, than what's the point of 'steal' and 'mug' abilities of ff7 and ff9? And I could spend lots of time stealing to make 'thievery' do 9999 damage every time. Stupid! You can train until it's too easy in EVERY FF and they are all more tedious than drawing and defining.
In the end, people that dislike ff8 play it like ff7 or similar(my "proof" is that "all" the people who have played ff8 before other FFs love it and that playing ff8 like it was ff7 (which ff8 is NOT) ruins ff8's brilliant storyline...

...(why would one keep waiting for a bad guy to show up, there's no Saphiroth here and if one constantly wants the main foe on display than he'd hate tons of top games (like Warcraft 3) every other game hides the main villain and that's not a bad thing at all! Why the heck must one know the bad guy since the beginning just because that worked in ff7!!!?)... *phew, I got that out *

... and gameplay(which I already mentioned)). You CAN'T compare ff8 with ff7. They are completely different games in almost all aspects.
That brings me to the second quote in a row here. (You might read the replies, again.) I already said that ff8 is great if not played as a classic Final Fantasy in many ways now. But CyanCyde's counter was "Or because it's bad. Flip back a page or two if you want reasons why.". I've heard those "twist, twist, twist" and "draw, draw, draw" complaints which are mostly done by people who wanted another ff7 and got something completely else and think that whatever is different in ff8 compared to ff7 sucks(which is frequently expressed and a stupid excuse to ignore such a great product) so I ignored the ignorance and said I enjoyed ff8 the most.
So I think it was SERIOUSLY inconsiderate to say it's bad regardless of how much fun I had playing it.

BTW, It's a whole lot worse to enjoy being drunk than enjoy ff8 (Which is NOT bad, it's 'you who can't enjoy quality' and not 'me who enjoys quantity without it').



Congratulations, you have officially confused the hell out of me.*sigh* CyanCyde said 'it's not realistic to use melee weapons while opponents have machine guns' to oppose my "ff8 is realistic" opinion(which is not entirely mine, but no matter). So I gave a comparison with ff7 (where Barret obviously has a nice bullet spiting gadget on his right hand) but Cloud is way stronger than him.
GFs gives you vitally and hp bonuses which makes it more rational you are more resistant with them. That's why bullets aren't as effective as a full-fledged sword attack that is just as well boosted by your GFs. DUUUH!

If you don't understand it all again, I'll take it as a compliment to my intelligence, because I would understand it even if had to read it 4 times.

I don't really have time for a huge post here to address everything you've said, but I do feel like asking one thing: (incidentally, if you want my views on the other areas of FFVIII, look up my post in this thread, it shouldn't be too far back)


OMG, I was saying that drawing magic is tons better way of training than running around and killing same monsters.

How, exactly? Is standing there like a muppet while you draw 100 of each magic really more fun than simply killing the monsters? The Draw system make things really frustrating by requiring you to stand there and get attacked while you do it when you know you could kill the enemies in about 2 moves.

Horribly broken? All other FFs tried something new (but under the safe line) while FF8 tried a whole lot of it.

That same argument's been used in this thread already. "New" doesn't necessarily equal "good." In FFVIII's case, it doesn't.


I was more of details hunter when I played FF8 so terrible plot twist wasn't so bad for me. You do have plenty of connections they just aren't obvious for an average player.

Unnecessary personal poke aside, a few details doesn't make the absurd plot twist any less bad. Perhaps I just lack your ability to simply ignore inconvenient things like the major freaking plot twist and the entire battle system.


If they were more difficult to build that wouldn't be the problem.

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.


First of all, I said I liked the plot side with Ultimecia and I explained why.

Ultimecia's just a token BBEG. The plot twist I keep referring to is the contrived "I forgot but I remember the GF made me forget" mess with the PC's shared history.


OMG, I was saying that drawing magic is tons better way of training than running around and killing same monsters. (Square even took care of the money problem (killing too few monsters for money) by adding salary.) The system is my favorite of all games. Besides, there are GF menu abilities for getting magic so you don't even need to draw(train) when battles are too difficult.

That is what breaks the battle system, dood. As a result of all that, with a little bit of intelligence, you hardly have to fight any random battles and be stupidly overpowered since enemies, including bosses, level with you. And you call Vertigo on not reading? :rolleyes:


Besides, if drawing sucks, than what's the point of 'steal' and 'mug' abilities of ff7 and ff9?

To get superior items and equipment earlier than you would otherwise, and for free. In FFIX, there are some items that are otherwise unobtainable. After implying that you're better than the "average player," that wasn't the brightest question.


You can train until it's too easy in EVERY FF and they are all more tedious than drawing and defining.

And, like I've said already, you don't have to train at all to be way overpowered in FFVIII. That's not a good thing.


But CyanCyde's counter was "Or because it's bad. Flip back a page or two if you want reasons why.". I've heard those "twist, twist, twist" and "draw, draw, draw" complaints which are mostly done by people who wanted another ff7 and got something completely else and think that whatever is different in ff8 compared to ff7 sucks(which is frequently expressed and a stupid excuse to ignore such a great product) so I ignored the ignorance and said I enjoyed ff8 the most.

First, you built what's known as a strawman. You don't even know what my complaints are about this game. You didn't even know what plot twist I was referring to, and I didn't even fuss at all about drawing. How's that for ignorance?

Second, not only did you stereotype me, but you put in the wrong damn stereotype. Everybody at FFS who bothers to read knows I didn't even like the "original" FFVII, much less want another one. And you accuse me of ignorance?


So I think it was SERIOUSLY inconsiderate to say it's bad regardless of how much fun I had playing it.

If you're going to spam your precious opinion on FFS, people here are going to challenge your views. If you can't handle that, then you should have read a bit before signing up to masturbate all over this game.


GFs gives you vitally and hp bonuses which makes it more ratio--*interrupted by loud fart*


If you don't understand it all again, I'll take it as a compliment to my intelligence, because I would understand it even if had to read it 4 times.

Or that your logic completely sucks. If you're talking about reality, I'd take the ability to put a 9mm round in your brain before a mythical creature that won't help you at all if your brain's been turned to Jell-O by said 9mm round rattling about inside your skull.

On the topic of your intelligence, if you were as smart as you thought you were, your posts would be a hell of a lot easier to read.

I was toying with ideas presented here for quite a long time.

I hope one day I'll be rich enough to go in with Square-Enix and re-make the game into a next-gen coat with a few changes in it but still keeping what people loved in it.

Of course the first thing I'd change would be the ending part, then do something about GFs being more flexible and not such a bother to use. I remember that one time I've gone through the game without using them. Squall's trigger attack was quite a good substitute. :D

I was toying with ideas presented here for quite a long time.

I hope one day I'll be rich enough to go in with Square-Enix and re-make the game into a next-gen coat with a few changes in it but still keeping what people loved in it.

Of course the first thing I'd change would be the ending part, then do something about GFs being more flexible and not such a bother to use. I remember that one time I've gone through the game without using them. Squall's trigger attack was quite a good substitute. :D

(http://img156.imageshack.us/i/facepalm2u.jpg/)

Facepalm Everywhere, Nice pack of facepalms Argus. xD

So I just crashed into this Thread. May my Rant begin?

What makes FF8 Stand: The Gameplay, even though the battle system is a failure because the monsters lvl up as you do, makes the game so fucking easy, but there's other fun things to do on this FF, such as the Sidequests.
The Graphics were good, nice effects.
The Music, Final Fantasy VIII is possibly the finest work that Nobuo Uematsu ever did.
The FMV of this game are the best for the PSX in a technical level (graphics), In content is also good but there are better FMV(in content) in the PSX.

What makes FF8 Fall: The Storyline, no surprise, it has so many random elements put together in a bad way, many things don't make sense even for it's world & dealing with Time & Space storylines is a double bladed Sword specially when you mix things the way they did on this storyline.
Love Story? Oh..... Sorry I was forgoting about the "Love Story", Good love stories were disney movies, this game's "love story" is pure nonsense it just needs to analyze the facts & the characters to realize why.

The Characters, some where good, many where bad, but the "character development" is kinda stupid, Squall falls for Rinoa by merely suggestion & Disc through Disc he's another character with the same Sprite, it would have been much more interesting if Zell was a declared gay, Selphie is another excuse for lolicon (but she has 3 or 4 nice dialogues), Quistis was OK but when she wants to apologize to Rinoa at the Parade in Deling that was a Facepalm like Argus put up there xD.
Irvine was the stereotypical cowboy who wants to hit on everything & he's cool at everything (I have nothing against this but at Disc 2 when he says he shuts his mouth about the past...), Seifer was a good character until appears Edea.

Laguna, Kiros & Ward were the Comedy part of the game on Disc 1 & 3, Disc 2 was whatever...(Am I getting a Squall cold?)

What makes so addicting about FFVIII gameplay? The Sidequests & it's possible challenges that you can put to yourself.

What makes me hate FFVIII? That I have to deal with characters that I don't like & a storyline that fails in many ways.

What makes me laugh about FFVIII? Watch Spoony's Rant. xD

As a gamer that cares more about storyline, characters, music & artwork, FFVIII falls than stands, IMO.