I din't know why but I don't really consider this game a Final Fantasy. I mean it has so many things that other FFs dont have.

Travel by car instead of chocobo

No MP

Enemies lvl with characters

No Treasure Chests

Using Item is a junctioned command, not a automatic command that everyone has.

No Moogles (I think)

No armor

You synth weapons dont buy them


I mean if that many things (and I know theres more) are different from the series might as well just be another square game, not FF. Only thing that resembles FF are the summons, i just think its lame.

<font face="lucida calligraphy" size="2">The only "requirement" for a game to be "Final Fantasy" is that Square names it that. Its not like there's a "Final Fantasy" subgenre of RPGs that have certain characteristics...

In anycase, it has the complex storyline and character development that the later FF games have, and that's what I've come to see as the trademark of the FF series, not the actual gameplay/battle system/etc... If that helps any.

I understand that Square can make any RPG they want into a FF but why do they choose that game. I always figured it would be because hey we have chocobos, moogles, bahamut, and the basic attack magic item other menu. I mean yeah it has complex stories and great characters but all great RPGs have that or they wouldnt be great RPGs. I think a series like FF should stay consistent. If you dont include FF8, FF6-FF10 all have what I included below, but not this game. If your not going to have a story that takes place after the previous installment there should be something that makes this a trademark games and not just summons. theres my 2 cents.

In a way, it's good to have a bit of variation in the series of games, and Square needed to experiment a little bit after the success of Final Fantasy VII. I mean, they could've gone ahead and made a direct sequel to VII as FFVIII, but they chose against it.

Personally, I think variation in the game is good. I'll admit that I'm not too keen on some of the features of Final Fantasy VIII, but the character development is very, very powerful in this game, and some of the music score is very moving, with some pieces even better than pieces from other games.

There are parts of each Final Fantasy game I don't like. I wasn't too keen on the Sphere Grid at first, and combining weapons in Final Fantasy IX was lost to me. I still think VIII was a good game, just not as stunning as some of the others.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nanaki XIII
[B]I din't know why but I don't really consider this game a Final Fantasy. I mean it has so many things that other FFs dont have.

Travel by car instead of chocobo
- Actually, you could get a chochobo

No MP
- Part of the innovation Square likes to put into each new FF

Enemies lvl with characters
- It was suppose to be more challenge

No Treasure Chests
- Now it just lies on the ground

Using Item is a junctioned command, not a automatic command that everyone has.
- Part of innovation

No Moogles (I think)
- Play chochobo world and get moogle. You'll see he's an GF

No armor
- true, but also part of the innovation

As you see, Square likes to innovate each FF game, they need something to make the next FF different from the other FF's and to get more buyers. You don't have the change to let everything remain the same for 12 games; Buyers will complain and won't buy the game because they all look a like.
With FF things change and that's good in a game to get people interrested.
:)

I'm not going to try to address everything, but:



Travel by car instead of chocobo

Yeah, but rental cars sucked for the most part anyway and I never really saw much need for such transportation, be it car or chocobo. And, as mentioned, there are chocobos.


You synth weapons dont buy them
So they wanted to make you work for them a little instead of just buying them. And buying weapons wasn't/isn't the only way to get weapons in other Final Fantasies. You could also get them from enemies or pickups/chests, another way of working for them. And Final Fantasy X did something different with this too, it had Customization.

Oh, and one other thing. There are lots of ways to attack Final Fantasy games along these lines. For example, Final Fantasy X doesn't have ATB, something that's been it pretty much all of the other past FF games.

Seeing as there is magic and GFs in FF8 that counts as fantasy as you can't use magic or GFs in reality. Also, the plot in FF8 is very fantasy-based. I mean, does your school fly and is your girlfriend a sorceress?

I really hope not for the sake of your insanity =P

Travel by car instead of chocobo - FF1 never had Chocobos

No MP - I (somewhat) think FF1 follows this rule since there is no universal MP count for ALL magics

Enemies lvl with characters - Hmm... FFT

No Treasure Chests - I thought there was... ah well o_O

Using Item is a junctioned command, not a automatic command that everyone has. - FF1 had a Drink Command... but what about the other FF games? :P

No Moogles (I think) - FF8 had em but FF1 didn't

No armor - FF8 did sorta have em

You synth weapons dont buy them - You somewhat had to buy them as well but eh

What people fail to realize is that Final Fantasy is not a set tradition of things, it's not a game, it's not a series, it's not a cult or anything. Final Fantasy is a name, what is within that name is what Squaresoft made. What Squaresoft made is the game. The game is called Final Fantasy whatever and Squaresoft can assure you that you will enjoy this game and whatever it has to offer. There ya have it, Final Fantasy is not a series, it's a name brand now.

Geez MogK you must of played Origins recently because you related almost everything to FF1.

Anyways forget FF1 it was an experiment and forget Tactics becausse Im talking about the straight series.

There is no treasure chests.

There is no armor

And yes FF is now a huge franchise and a popular name but FF1-10+ are numbered for a reason. They are each a game in a huge series. And while we need variation to keep the series interesting, this game may of been too different.

All of the FF games are different. Obviously they don't have to meet a certian criterea to be considered an FF game. I think FFVIII is just as much an FF as any other, and a very good one at that. It even rivals FFVI as the best FF in my books.

Without variation, the FF series would get old and noone would buy them. So what if it isn't FF7 in a different shell? FF8 is the best damn FF in my book.

i like FF8 so there

Ultimicia, if you really don't have anything to add, then please don't bother posting.

so nanaki, are your only 2 points now that it didn't have armor and treasure chests?

these don't disqualify it as part of the ff series, they're elements in practically every rpg. they qualify it as different from most games.

and if we're going to talk about things that it does/doesn't have in common with ff games, then let's look at this:

cid
shiva
ifrit
bahamut
carbuncle
odin
chocobos
stats that go from 1-255
9999 max hp
summoning spells (GFs)
ultima
fire/fira/firaga
blizzard/blizzara/blizzaga
thunder/thundara/thundaga
flare
the progression from walking/riding (chocobo or car)/capable of crossing water (boats or garden)/airship
cactaurs (cactrots earlier)
tonberries (recent, but they keep coming back)

I'd prefer to stop there, but there's dozens, maybe hundreds more examples of common denominators between ff8 and the other ff games.

Originally posted by Grand_Lethal
so nanaki, are your only 2 points now that it didn't have armor and treasure chests?

these don't disqualify it as part of the ff series, they're elements in practically every rpg. they qualify it as different from most games.

and if we're going to talk about things that it does/doesn't have in common with ff games, then let's look at this:

cid
shiva
ifrit
bahamut
carbuncle
odin
chocobos
stats that go from 1-255
9999 max hp
summoning spells (GFs)
ultima
fire/fira/firaga
blizzard/blizzara/blizzaga
thunder/thundara/thundaga
flare
the progression from walking/riding (chocobo or car)/capable of crossing water (boats or garden)/airship
cactaurs (cactrots earlier)
tonberries (recent, but they keep coming back)

I'd prefer to stop there, but there's dozens, maybe hundreds more examples of common denominators between ff8 and the other ff games.



You must not of read the whole thread.

"Only thing that resembles FF are the summons"-That eleminates 6 on the list

As for spells and names and monsters there trademark. Im talking about gameplay.

"Travel by car instead of chocobo

No MP

Enemies lvl with characters

No Treasure Chests

Using Item is a junctioned command, not a automatic command that everyone has.

No armor"


These things are totally different from standard FF gameplay and of course you wanna keep the game fresh and new so but no other FF has changed this much in the gameplay.

FFX changed a lot to but it was from same makers as 8.

Maybe these creators like altering my idea of FF.

Originally posted by Nanaki XIII
...There is no treasure chests.

There is no armor...

I assumed that when you posted just those 2, you were conceeding that they'd disproved your other points.

--there are chocobos, cars are a part of innovation
--the item point that you make is just meaningless. it's not like they took the item command out of the game, they just incorporated it into the junction system
--enemies leveling: I hate to burst your bubble, but you can't just discount tactics and ff1 from the series. changing the definition of "ff games" in the middle of the thread won't make something that's wrong correct.
--no mp: once again, part of junctioning. there's also the ff1 comparison.
--no moogles: chocobo world, the moogle summon, the minimog card. and yes, those do count.
--no armor: once again, this is an element of RPGs in general, and it's just (in my opinion) a nice change of pace from games where you've got to keep track of helmet/shield/armor/accessories.
--no treasure chests: this is a moot point. treasure chests have nothing to do with gameplay or game style, and they're certainly not a signature characteristic of ff games
--synthing weapons: once again, a moot point. buying weapons isn't a signature characteristic of ff games, and therefore, a variation on this is not a selling point of your "not a ff game" idea


and if you're going to use "gameplay" as a factor, let's examine it:

1. uses the ATB: semi-real-time turn-based combat system.
2. the usual basic commands are there: attack, defend, magic, item, summon
3. a whole crapload of items that you see in other ff games.
4. a whole crapload of enemies from other games
5. the same system of some monsters absorbing certain magic types and being vulnerable to others.
6. 3 character fighting party, and ability to "call" players who aren't in your current party when you're in the field.
7. cutscenes used at crucial points in the story.
8. limit break/desperation move/trance/overdrive
9. the same basic plot setup of someone appearing to be the enemy at the beginning of the game and eventually the real bad guy is exposed
10. once again, the progression from pedestrian to riding to seafaring to flying

ten is a nice round number, so i'll stop there.

like I said, pointing out a few relatively insignificant points about the game doesn't show that it doesn't belong in the series.

Variation like FF X was good, because it was executed and planned very carefully. Things like the CTB system, abiility to switch out characters, the massive Sphere Grid...all that's really cool. But no MP? A Draw system? All these things really sucked and didn't help at all - they were changes for the worse.