Alright. In OrangeC's bitch-thread about one of the moderators of the Anime & VG Music section, Jessie, Despair brought up a good suggestion, and we started discussion about how to make the good old DL section new and shiny
(for your reference, the discussion starts with this posting in the thread (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showthread.php?p=1482625#post1482625), everything before it is just trolling).

The Download section is in dire need of some change. There's a lot of confusion, since there's threads for extremely different genres (games, movies, anime, etc.), multiple threads for the same games, a lot of threads from the Stone Age are bumped back up, and a huge pile of threads actually is simply inactive.

A lot of good suggestions have been brought up in the linked thread, and I want to hear the part of the community which frequents the DL section to actively join the discussion through the thread here.

Here are the most logical possibilities of how to deal with it:
1.) Keep it as it is
This needs no explanation. Keep the DL forums how they are currently organized.

2.) Tags for the thread titles (Asamiya's suggestion)
The DL forums stay as they are, however, in the thread title, there should be some sort of tag showing what kind of soundtrack this thread contains.
Example:
Anime & Asian = [AnAs]
Video Game = [ViGa]
TV & Movie Music =[TvMo]
Other Downloads = [EtcD]

This will make searching easier, and also keeping an overview in the section. Crossover threads can be kept as they are, as well.

3.) Subforums for the different genres (Captain Dolce's suggestion)
This will have different subforums for download links. My suggestion was:
- Video Game Music
- Anime & Asian Music
- TV & Movie Music
(- Other Downloads)

You will be able to simply search in the specific subforum you desire to find a soundtrack in (e.g. if you are looking for the game Street Fighter, you can search in the VGM section, if you search for the movie, you can go to the Movie section), and the whole sections will be smaller by themselves, keeping all of them cleaner.

The "Other Downloads" would be things like artbooks, personal compositions from users around here, etc.

The biggest flaw of this system are "crossover" threads - collection threads of several people contain all kinds of stuff across the board, and some keep all things related to a series in one thread, including games, movies, anime, etc.
These people would have to cross-link to the different thread sections - since this is more work for the uploaders, I would like to hear the specific people maintaining these to tell me if they would be okay with maintaining the stuff through split forums.

THE ARCHIVE
I have suggested creating an archive subforum additionally to the new sections. This would contain all threads from the current section that haven't been active since a certain period of time (1 year, 6 months, etc.).
This has different merits:
a.) The moderators don't have to wade through all 410 pages of the Downloads section and check every thread for where it belongs to.
b.) Old threads will not be bumped all over again, and there won't be a lot of threads related to the same thing on page 1 cause one hyperactive user bumped all of them.
c.) People can find out if there's a soundtrack that has been uploaded in the past and specifically request another upload - alternatively, old links still might work.

If there is someone who wants to reupload an old link, they can simply create a new thread in the new section.

So, with this it means that we'd have more possibilities:

4.) Tags & Archive Subforum

5.) Genre Subsections & Archive Subforum

and

7.) Only add an Archive Subforum
(I forgot to add this option to the poll, hence it is in last, sorry!)

If you have more suggestions for a different solution, I left open the option:
6.) Other
If you choose this, please elaborate what you think!

----------------------------------------

With that said, there's another, namely the Request section.
I personally think that the tag system from Asamiya would be best (like, having to choose a tag for a certain genre to make it easier for uploaders to see what they can do for people). But I'd like to hear your suggestions about this.

----------------------------------------

Also, what we need in ANY case are more moderators!

Once we have collected enough opinions and data about this topic, I will post a new thread in the Feedback-section of the forums and ask the staff to fulfill the wishes of the DL community.

Of course, this is no guarantee if all the stuff we are suggesting or wanting to add will happen, but I'm sure if asked kindly, we will be helped out!

Thank you in advance! <3

You managed to sway me on the archive, though I doubt any links from over 1 year ago are usable, that will allow people to see if it has been uploaded before and to request it.

archive plus the subsections would make everyone's life easier. besides, archiving the old stuff might help people find things a bit easier through search. for a moment, I thought you guys were gonna seal your own demise by breathing new life into the main page.

I'd like to put my input in (as little as it matters).

Although the genre subsections is a nice idea, I really think it might be a tiny problem also. There are many threads that I visit and find video game music as well as soundtracks/scores. The line that defines these two genres can sometimes be a bit blurry considering there are some composers that do both.

I'm all for the tags, that way I can tell if it is VGM or OST's without compromising an entire thread if not need be.

Either way, I'm sure if there is a remodeling, it will be great and supported!

@HeroOfTime32:
I think you are referring to "crossovers", as I called them - threads that would fall into 2 or more categories. I know that this would be the biggest problem, but I think that there's a solution that can be found for both, such as cross-linking.
To take up the example of Street Fighter again, if I made a collection thread about all of Street Fighter, I would post the initial collection into the VGM category. There's 2 possibilities from this point for the movie soundtracks, though:
a.) Make an independent thread for the SF movies in the movie subsection and link to it in the VG thread, and vice versa or
b.) If there's only 1 or 2 little soundtracks, adding it to the game thread is not that far out there.

Although I do think that solution A is the better thing in any case, despite it requiring a little bit of more work for the uploaders.

Would existing massive threads such as The Lossless Video Game Soundtrack Thread be moved into the Video Game soundtracks section if it were to be split into genres? I for one would like to continue updating the index in my thread as I have been if it were to be moved.

Since it's still active, I suppose it would be moved into the gaming section, yes.

Edit: The lossless thread that is, i don't know yours. :3

What about THE BIG ORCHESTRAL ACTION MUSIC TRHREAD! ? It covers a huge variety of categories, such as video games, film, anime, and classical compositions.

lol, all those borderline cases. :P

I mean, it's not me who's moderating this place or admin of this site, so it's not my decision in the end, I just can say where I THINK something would belong.
So, imo, the Big Orchestral-Collection is, in fact, too big to be simply "split and cross-linked", so perhaps that could go into the Other-section (if there is one created).

-> DL SECTION
----> VGM
----> Animu + Asian
----> Movies + TV
----> Other uploads: Including artbooks, original compositions, big genre-comprehensive collections
----> Requests
(----> Archive)
---------------
General Talk
---------------

Alternatively, the DL parent section could stand in for those huge collection threads that go over several genre sections or simply don't fit in any of these, so to say taking the place of an Other-section.

-> DL SECTION
----> VGM
----> Animu + Asian
----> Movies + TV
----> Requests
(----> Archive)
---------------
General Talk and other uploads, such as artbooks, original compositions, big genre-comprehensive collections
---------------

I'll post my idea for the DL forum layout just if it helps spur more ideas in this thread. I forgot to add the Archive area in the other thread, so I added it in here...




Download Links - misc links board/parent forum -
..................*sticky
......................music that may NOT be posted for legal reasons
......................download links forum guidelines
......................suggested uploading sites & related discussion/DO NOT USE Megaupload to upload albums (list of alternatives)
......................Ripping CDs and Encoding With Lossless - How To
......................problems with gh? report them here
......................Notice: read this before making threads
......................Requests/+request guidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........Video Game Music - vgm music + related items
..................*sticky
......................Notice: read this before making threads
......................VGM links
......................Looking for video game music recommendations?
......................Avoid Bootleg CD's! - List of legit sellers of Anime & VGM CD's
......................music that may NOT be posted for legal reasons
......................Requests/+request guidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........Anime & Asian Music - both together since they usually intermingle anyway
..................*sticky
......................Notice: read this before making threads
......................Avoid Bootleg CD's! - List of legit sellers of Anime & VGM CD's
......................music that may NOT be posted for legal reasons
......................Requests/+request guidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........TV & Movie Music - same as above*
..................*sticky
......................Notice: read this before making threads
......................music that may NOT be posted for legal reasons
......................Requests/+request guidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........Archives

As long as there remains a conglomerated RSS feed, I'll be happy.

What about THE BIG ORCHESTRAL ACTION MUSIC TRHREAD! ? It covers a huge variety of categories, such as video games, film, anime, and classical compositions.

Yeah Captain Dolce, this is really what I was talking about when I mentioned threads containing a variety of genres. I DO like the idea of subsections and such so we can organize this place a bit, but there are many threads that fall under this category too such as the Film Score/VGM Hunt Thread as well as others. So long as threads like these aren't hung out to dry, then I'm game for organizing the threads up a bit!

I will say though, this forum has TONS of traffic in the Anime & Video Game Music section of the forums- with only a few places to go from there (Download Links, Requests, etc.). It would be nice to organize a bit so people can quickly find what it is that they are looking for.

As for Archiving, that should be a no brainer! As well as tags. For me, and again, this is just my opinion, I like the idea of the subgenre sections, but I feel that it might actually make it harder for uploaders, and links may end up in the wrong places, so the subsections didn't get my vote.

Sorry for taking up space/time, just figured mods/remodelers would like to hear some opinions. :)

Sorry for taking up space/time, just figured mods/remodelers would like to hear some opinions. :)

Yeah, no problem. Anything and everything helps. If you think of something let us know, alright? All suggestions are welcomed. :D
That goes for everybody, don't be shy.

I voted "New Genre Subsection" but i feel it is incomplete.

--------------------------------------

I recommend to do something like this:

- Videogames subforum
- Animes and jpop (or asian whatever) subforum
- Movies & TV subforum
- X subforum
- Y subforum

All those subforums should follow those rules (or at least, strongly recommended), based from the sarah's topic
(Thread 28230)

* keep it ONE album (or gamerip) to a thread and poster (since a game rip can be VERY different from a poster to another: different arrangement, different ripping method, different quality compression, ect... A rip is rarely the same than another, even based on the same game. As example, see the numerous Silent Hill 2 game rips all over the net)

* use specific titles so people can find it


- Collections subforum

Where people will be free to make collections topic, genre regardless:
Animes Lossless collections,
Animes Lossless collections #10,
Animes Lossless collections of 80's,
My Tiny Big Thread collection,
The Ultimate Favorites anime/jpop/movies Mega-Top-Of-All-Times-Thread,
The 80's Movies topic,
ect,
ect,
...

* on this subforum, with few and less strict rules, you should be able to easily merge all genre,
including direct download links,
but also listing reference lists from others topics (for instance a topic which link all FF topics from a specific game or series, from differents poster in the others subforums...)
This should make everybody happy.

--------------------------------------

About some "archive" forum, I disagree, there are very old topics with valid links, where people seems to keep downloading (even if nobody posts any thank you, it doesnt matter)

Having archives subforums will just be a pain in the ass, just like the mega-threads full of random posts...
Use RSS instead.

--------------------------------------

Also, i don't see also what the problem is when people posting to request a re-up on any download topics.
Again, just use the RSS feed if you want to see and follow ONLY the new threads from a forum.

--------------------------------------

As said before, use google instead the internal search.

--------------------------------------

In all download subforums, a stickied topic which explain those rules but also to help people with explanations about the RSS feed, and how to use google instead of the limited internal seach function.

--------------------------------------

See this old topic also, maybe it contains good suggestions:
(VGM section changes) Thread 64328

--------------------------------------

About using genre tags, I don't have opinion, but i'll tend to think that it is not a good idea (too lazy to develop, sorry)

--------------------------------------

Sorry for the bad english, hope there are not ambiguous or nonsense sentences.

BTw, who stickied this ?

I kinda like it the way it is, but maybe a subforum for LOSSLESS ONLY might be nice. What do you think?

- Collections subforum


While it IS a solution, I feel that these threads are just too little in terms of numbers to have an own subsection. Half of the thread titles you named would fit into Anime & Asian, and as said, for the others, there are definitely other solutions (such as an "Others"-section or using the DL parent section).


About some "archive" forum, I disagree, there are very old topics with valid links, where people seems to keep downloading (even if nobody posts any thank you, it doesnt matter)

That's actually why archives would make sense. Nobody WILL post any thank you in there (because it would be read-only), and can use links if they are still active.


Having archives subforums will just be a pain in the ass, just like the mega-threads full of random posts...
Use RSS instead.

Also, i don't see also what the problem is when people posting to request a re-up on any download topics.
Again, just use the RSS feed if you want to see and follow ONLY the new threads from a forum.

Exactly those random posts is what archives would completely avoid. People who are like, as an example, "omg i cannot find super mario 64 anyway, reup plz" bumping all 15 threads which had Super Mario 64 onto Page 1 and burying the activity under the mass of Super Mario 64s would be kept on a minimum, in the worst case they create a thread in the request section.

Lastly, it would ease up the work for mods because they don't have to check out every of the currently over 12000 threads in the current dl subsection in order to put it where it belongs into.


As said before, use google instead the internal search.

This wasn't said before in this thread or your posting? Anyway, while Google is very helpful, using different subsections STILL would ease up the search.


In all download subforums, a stickied topic which explain those rules but also to help people with explanations about the RSS feed, and how to use google instead of the limited internal seach function.

Creating a FAQ and rule list is actually a really good suggestion (although most people will plainly ignore it, lol. It'll be always like this).


BTw, who stickied this ?

Jessie.

I propose to create some sections like the followings:


Anime

Lossless

TV/Movies

Lossless

Games

Lossless



In my opinion, each new release should have its own tagged thread, because it is hard to find something in a thread with 400+ pages.

For example:

Composer (Year) Title [more informations]

Plus, an archive could be useful.

The lossless sections could have some basic rules about ripping (for example, using EAC).

These are my suggestions, and this is what usually other forums do :).

imo lossless isn't important enough to warrant subsections to the subsections.
though a lossless tag for threads would be good.

The subforum idea sounds like a winner, along with an archive of locked topics.

The lossless thing could be solved simply by requiring a file format tag, for example: [mp3 320] or [flac + mp3 vbr v0] etc. Many people do this already.

The subforum idea sounds like a winner, along with an archive of locked topics.

The lossless thing could be solved simply by requiring a file format tag, for example: [mp3 320] or [flac + mp3 vbr v0] etc. Many people do this already.

This is true, but they're rare and far between. A general guide needs to be set up about information such as the quality of the rip (128, 192, 256, 320, vbr, flac, etc.) as well as titles that are specific. "My game rips" doesn't tell you much if you're searching for, say, Resident Evil. But having Both Resident Evil and Biohazard (It's Japanese name) in the title makes it easier to find the threads without having to search for both terms.

I myself don't really care about composers, but I know there are those that do, so perhaps those should be included in the title as well. Though that doesn't necassarily make the search easier since if you type in "Resident Evil", search picks up any threads with Resident or Evil, the sub forums will cut that down.

I think the archive forum's best result would be that instead of posting another request thread, or asking for one in the dl section, they could instead pm the op for a re-up. Though, a desperate requester may simply pm everybody who posted in the thread, so maybe there should be a rule againt that? Atleast until the op shuts you down or doesn't reply.

Though the tagging system sounds good in theory, I don't see how it will actually clear out the forum. Maybe I'm just not reading it correctly? At best you could search for the tags themselves, but then you'd get any thread tagged that way.

Though loseless is nice, it's not in a great enough majority to have its own subsections.
And to Byblo's idea of "One game rip to a thread," it would make it easier in terms of searching for 1 soundtrack, but it would force more topics, and ones already posted in series threads (such as, say, "All FFX soundtracks") would probably have to be split then, unless they'd get an exception. It would also make it difficult to really find them all if you're searching for more than one unless the thread titles could reflect the differences....

the pm idea is horrible. there are quite a bunch of uploaders that simply aren't active anymore or maybe don't have that soundtrack anymore for some reason. a request thread is better because there can be multiple people to reply to that request.

the tag system is supposed to be like a prefix to the thread. it would ease up searching for it. For instance, a page of the (current) dl section would look like this:

[VGM] Super Mario Galaxy 2
[Anime] Sailor Moon
[Movie] Avatar
[Anime] Avatar: The Last Airbender
[VGM] Castlevania 3
[VGM] Call of Duty 6: Modern Warfare 2
[Movie] Silent Hill
[VGM] Silent Hill 2

i think you get the idea.
if you search for "silent hill" for instance, you'll find the movie and vgm threads, and by the tag you can establish easily whether you'll get the movie or the game before even checking inside the thread.

That does indeed appear to be a sound idea, but I think better organization can be attained through subforums AND tagging. for example:

Download links

--movie

Iron Man 2 (Ramin Djawadi) [RS] [mp3 320]

[VGM] Super Mario Galaxy 2
[Anime] Sailor Moon
[Movie] Avatar
[Anime] Avatar: The Last Airbender
[VGM] Castlevania 3
[VGM] Call of Duty 6: Modern Warfare 2
[Movie] Silent Hill
[VGM] Silent Hill 2


Hm... I think if tags go in the front, they should all be the same length. 3 letters per tag would make everything uniform in size and easier for the eyes to read many things at one glance.

[VGM] Super Mario Galaxy 2
[ANM] Sailor Moon
[MOV] Avatar
[ANM] Avatar: The Last Airbender
[VGM] Castlevania 3
[VGM] Call of Duty 6: Modern Warfare 2
[MOV] Silent Hill
[VGM] Silent Hill 2

Nice and neat, and easier to read. The Asian tag would be [ASN], maybe TV could be [TVM] for TV music...

it was more of an example of how the prefix tags would look like. ;3

I'm quite fond of the forum the way it is; it's messy, but I think in a good way. It encourages discovery. Having everything lumped in together means you see stuff you might not have otherwise gone looking for, and perhaps your interest is piqued...

In all seriousness, and with utmost respect, we're having this discussion because somebody with a personal grudge decided to air his dirty laundry in public. It actually has very little to do with the forum, the moderators, the download area, or anything else relevant.

This forum is a big jumbly mess. That's just the way I like it. Having said that, I do understand why other folk would not like it.

I like this ideas above, but getting people do actually do it, that's going to be the clincher.

What's worse? A messy disorganised forum full of music, or a nicely organised, sub-divided forum with no music. I've moderated other forums and when we've split things up like this, we've found we spend more time moving wrongly posted posts into the correct sub-folders than we ever did clearing up messes previously. Getting people to follow simple instructions accurately is hard work.

I think if there are divisions (ie, subforums) they'd have to be very broad... Anime Music, Game Music, Movie Music, Other Music, and Megathreads like the Orchestra thread, the Film Music Hunt, etc, as others have suggested. That could work.

Personally, I'd just have one giant download forum (ie, like now) but have a policy on how to format thread titles. At the very LEAST they should specify Composer (yes, they're important - without the composer, you have no music after all,) Title, Genre, and format.

As I say, this will just increase the Mod's workload... (What about existing threads? Is some poor sod going to sort through the whole lot and move them into their appropriate homes? At my forum we did this six months ago and between myself and three other moderators we're still not even half way through. And that's with probably half the traffic we get here.)

You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

Peace :)
TT

As I say, this will just increase the Mod's workload... (What about existing threads? Is some poor sod going to sort through the whole lot and move them into their appropriate homes? At my forum we did this six months ago and between myself and three other moderators we're still not even half way through. And that's with probably half the traffic we get here.)

yea for this i thought the archive would be way better. so it's only threads that have been active for X amount of time that would have to be actually sorted out, that's way less. the others are simply thrown into the archive. :3

of course, everything is personal preference - some like it big and messy, some like it sorted.

I agree with that the Download Forum needs a major overhaul, as it's starting to get a little long in the tooth. Reorganizing it into specific sections for game, anime, TV and movie themes etc would be a very good start, but I've noticed some other niggling problems with the forum which may not be readily apparent.

Firstly, I may not use the Download section all that much, but I've noticed that with the increase in popularity with the DL section there has been a marked decrease in the stability of the website. Half the time when I try accessing the main site all I get is a 'The server is currently busy. Please try again later" errors, caused by excessive server traffic. And when I finally do manage to access the site, there are often over a thousand people on the site, with 90% of those people new members in the DL Section.

That's why I think the DL Section should be restricted to only members who have been active for a certain length of time, and/or after a certain post count is reached. Or maybe, an alternative could be that a moderator 'screens' members, making the DL section exclusive to only a select group of members (an extreme method I know). Most of the people who use the DL section are new members who only join the site purely to download music and are never seen again.

This isn't meant to be an attack on new members in general, or the DL section, and if anyone has taken offense, I'm sorry. It's just I think the DL section needs major changes to stop it from causing the whole site to come crashing down.

While it IS a solution, I feel that these threads are just too little in terms of numbers to have an own subsection.
OK but what is the problem if they will be low in number ?
It is about having things clear and ordered, not a subforums contest.



Half of the thread titles you named would fit into Anime & Asian, and as said, for the others, there are definitely other solutions (such as an "Others"-section or using the DL parent section).
No no no! As I said, ONE album PER topic.

At the moment you want to post more than one album in a topic for ANY reason (lets say 2 albums of the same anime in one topic), then you MUST post it on the Collections subforum, not on the Anime subforum anymore.



That's actually why archives would make sense. Nobody WILL post any thank you in there (because it would be read-only), and can use links if they are still active.
That archive's logic is beyond me, sorry...
I still don't see the problem of a topic of 4 years old, where people still can download the album. (remember its a download forum...)
As said before, just use the RSS feed to follow the new topics:
http://forums.ffshrine.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=72



Exactly those random posts is what archives would completely avoid. People who are like, as an example, "omg i cannot find super mario 64 anyway, reup plz" bumping all 15 threads which had Super Mario 64 onto Page 1 and burying the activity under the mass of Super Mario 64s would be kept on a minimum, in the worst case they create a thread in the request section.
Again, i dont see the problem...
Also, if somebody post a re-up request on the request forum for one of the album i posted or follow, I'll never know it... Request for re-up should remain on the album's topic.



Lastly, it would ease up the work for mods because they don't have to check out every of the currently over 12000 threads in the current dl subsection in order to put it where it belongs into.RSS feed, again... It shows only the new topics. I assume moderators are aware of that feature, or an equivalent.


I propose to create some sections like the followings:


Anime

Lossless

TV/Movies

Lossless

Games

Lossless



In my opinion, each new release should have its own tagged thread, because it is hard to find something in a thread with 400+ pages.+1
Does not matter if lossless rips are currently rare. It could even help to promote that conservation method (and also good ripping, since lossless users are generally more attentive to rip correctly their stuff).



The subforum idea sounds like a winner, along with an archive of locked topics.-1 (sry too lazy to explain -.-)



And to Byblo's idea of "One game rip to a thread," it would make it easier in terms of searching for 1 soundtrack, but it would force more topics, and ones already posted in series threads (such as, say, "All FFX soundtracks") would probably have to be split then, unless they'd get an exception. It would also make it difficult to really find them all if you're searching for more than one unless the thread titles could reflect the differences....
* Not my idea but sarah's suggestion from her guideline, which I think should have been a rule since the beginning.

* Theres no need to split collections topics, just to move them to the Collection subforum.

* You can open multiple tabs with modern net browsers in order to compare albums.


I'm quite fond of the forum the way it is; it's messy, but I think in a good way. It encourages discovery. Having everything lumped in together means you see stuff you might not have otherwise gone looking for, and perhaps your interest is piqued... +1
The mess have his advantages, and preferable to some weird organization.


That's why I think the DL Section should be restricted to only members who have been active for a certain length of time, and/or after a certain post count is reached. Or maybe, an alternative could be that a moderator 'screens' members, making the DL section exclusive to only a select group of members (an extreme method I know). Most of the people who use the DL section are new members who only join the site purely to download music and are never seen again.That would be very unfair for new members.

Also, asking to new member to write a certain amount of posts before begin able to access the DL forum, will only result in a mountain of pointless posts, then you'll get even more "Server is busy" access errors -.-

RSS feed, again... It shows only the new topics. I assume moderators are aware of that feature, or an equivalent.

what does sorting the CURRENT OLD threads have to do with RSS feeding? the moderators will HAVE to move ALL movie threads into the movie section, ALL game threads into the game section, ALL anime threads into the anime section.

and they can't judge all threads just by title, so they have to at least open a few thousand of the threads to see what they exactly are about.

as for the archive things - for instance, i made a rip for AeroGauge. it was bumped several times, although i have retired from uploading. now if there would be 10 people who made a certain rip, let's keep it AeroGauge, and not one of them is active still, then why would you support to let people bump ALL of those 10 threads onto the first page, although none of the original uploaders will provide the links? would 1 single thread in the request section not be better, for it won't push threads of newer soundtracks a page or 2 back?

At any time, there's always 100+ 'members' in the Download link section, majority of which haven't contributed to anything else on the forum.

Limiting the amount of downloads per user per day would also help limit the server access errors as well. Having a new member post a certain amount of 'legitimate posts' in other parts of the forum (IE, The Final Fantasy Sections, afterall this IS a Final Fantasy forum, NOT a Videogame music forum) before being allowed access to the download section would be a wise move.


That would be very unfair for new members.

Also, asking to new member to write a certain amount of posts before begin able to access the DL forum, will only result in a mountain of pointless posts, then you'll get even more "Server is busy" access errors -.-

Isn't that a moderator's job? To make sure people aren't posting spam (IE 'Mountain of pointless posts)? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a section for people to report spam?

/looks/

Oh my, yes there is here:

notice spam / advertisements / things mods & admins need to deal with? (Thread 30368)

Ever since the Download Link section was added, there have been numerous "Server is busy" access errors mainly due I suspect to the influx of new members who go to this section more than anything else.

The biggest flaw of this system are "crossover" threads - collection threads of several people contain all kinds of stuff across the board, and some keep all things related to a series in one thread, including games, movies, anime, etc.

These people would have to cross-link to the different thread sections - since this is more work for the uploaders, I would like to hear the specific people maintaining these to tell me if they would be okay with maintaining the stuff through split forums.



Then don't take away that option. If somebody wants to have everything that they upload in one single thread. They should have that option like they have it now.

I do think that sub forums are for the best.

Also, having 'dead' threads locked would be nice.

Maybe even delete posts/thread that are no longer relevant.
Why have a thread with 50 dead links?
It's kind of misleading.

At any time, there's always 100+ 'members' in the Download link section, majority of which haven't contributed to anything else on the forum.

Limiting the amount of downloads per user per day would also help limit the server access errors as well. Having a new member post a certain amount of 'legitimate posts' in other parts of the forum (IE, The Final Fantasy Sections, afterall this IS a Final Fantasy forum, NOT a Videogame music forum) before being allowed access to the download section would be a wise move.


If you're talking about limiting downloads in gh, that almost makes sense. However, seeing how GH gets around 80% of the site's traffic, it would be difficult to call this anything but a video game music site. I don't really think that limiting traffic to the download section would really affect anything. Organizing it would be good for the members of the forum, but not limiting the traffic in the forum. You could try limiting traffic in gh, but I don't know if that is something desirable.

It should be made clear if it's a real OST or a game rip (I hate it when people call their RIPs OSTs I like to differenciate these) and if it's lossless or lossy.

Tags can do that.

I voted for Genre subsections + Archive. Different sections like, current generation video games, anime, new movies, older movies, old video games, artist albums, etc.

I really only collect horror scores, so this would do me wonders. Plus, I don't know anything about anime, so when I see a new link, I have to click it (and sometimes look it up on imdb.com), just to see what it is.

There's actually a mod for vbulletin that allows threads to be formally tagged as part of the thread creation process. The tags can also be searched with much less load on the server than a standard forum search. Something to think about...

There's actually a mod for vbulletin that allows threads to be formally tagged as part of the thread creation process. The tags can also be searched with much less load on the server than a standard forum search. Something to think about...

Yea, I know about that, it's a good suggestion, imo.

I like tags for format as well as separate sections.

Also, I think better regulation of duplicate threads, such as Super Mario Galaxy. I'm never sure which rip is the best, the most complete.

I like tags for format as well as separate sections.

Also, I think better regulation of duplicate threads, such as Super Mario Galaxy. I'm never sure which rip is the best, the most complete.

then you gotta check them all out.

i don't think regulating duplicate threads is a good idea, quite the contrary.

Well, for my two cents, here's what I'd do:
First off, then the problem with dead threads is, in part, in the nature of the beast. Rather than restructuring, (which I'm not sure people would follow anyway,) what is needed is a thread cleaning process. It would take time, but eventually it would clear out the backlog.
It would work like this: Starting from the thread with the oldest post, first all of the links would be checked. If there are no active links, the original poster would be PMed with a form request to close the thread. If they say yes, if they are no longer members, or if they do no reply within a given period of time (say, a week,) then the thread is deleted. If ANY of the links are active, it should be left for people to find.
While this would be complicated for some of the older, more elaborate threads, this would cover a lot of the problem.

I would be willing to help the laborious process of checking old threads. Over time, the evaluation process will be faster than new threads are created, and the problem should largely fix itself.

Duplicate threads are duplicate threads. Unless they are duplicating the same link, I don't believe they are germane to the mods to correct. And nobody wants to be the person who has their upload judged unworthy.

As a second, related subject, I would advise the Request section be abandoned. The problem is simple. Generally, people who post don't read a request section. And even if they post in reply, it means there are now links in a non-download section. The Film/Score thread seems to have become the general catchall for requests, as have some of the other busier threads.

Let me know if I can help,
JonC
(I guess this means I vote for 'other.')

Personally, I like the way things are now. It keeps everything in a broader spectrum and if you need something specific, you should be smart enough to use the 'Search' capability. If you're using the internet and do not know how to do a search, you shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.

And when people are reviving two year old threads saying "OMG, linkz dead!", they should make sure to read the most recent pages to see if there is a more recent active link. If not, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTIONALITY. It's not that hard, folks.

The problem is, unfortunately is that a LOT of people on this lists are idiots. That's why they don't follow requests, suggestions or rules.
Any solution to the current situation requires the assumption that there will always be members that have no sense or patience.

JonC

Oh, and as a sample for the cleaning process, I looked over the last page (#411) for links.
There are 11 threads with 13 links posted by two authors, Sarah and megsl83 (who hasn't made a new post since about a year ago.
All of them are dead except for
Thread 28304

This check took 5 minutes.

JonC

The only problem with that is that people will complain that it's too much hard work when they can just throw it into an "archive" section and be done with it.

Also, a quick random survey of old pages indicates that easily half of the threads on the download list are obsolete and good be safely disposed of.

As for the time it takes, okay I'll do it. I'll do all of it. Just let me know who I should post the results to. (Unfortunately, only an admin can actually delete the threads in question.)

JonC

Also, a quick random survey of old pages indicates that easily half of the threads on the download list are obsolete and good be safely disposed of.

As for the time it takes, okay I'll do it. I'll do all of it. Just let me know who I should post the results to. (Unfortunately, only an admin can actually delete the threads in question.)

JonC

I wouldn't mind doing it either. Just I don't think the admins would want to go through the trouble.

The admin just has to hit delete. That can't be any harder than moving them.
JonC

(Sample Report)

Evaluation Dates:
06-17-2006 05:24 AM
thru
07-08-2006 10:56
(This is to ensure that if multiple people are searching, they don't end up evaluating the same pages. This sample covers pages 410-411, and took less than 20 minutes)

Users:
(after the first reply back, all further qualifying pages by a particular user can automatically be deleted.)
Eriol
Last post 11/10/2009
Thread 28365
Thread 28374
Thread 28570
Thread 29020

megsl83
Stated in posts that nothing will be reuploaded
Last post 6/23/2009
Thread 28306
Thread 28310
Thread 28312
Thread 28313
Thread 28314
Thread 28315
Thread 28316
Thread 28317
Thread 28321
Thread 28322
Thread 28323
Thread 28324
Thread 28325
Thread 28326
Thread 28329
Thread 28330
Thread 28331
Thread 28332
Thread 28414
Thread 28461
Thread 28571
Thread 28572
Thread 28596 (temporarily unavailable)
Thread 28598 (temporarily unavailable)
Thread 28696
Thread 28773
Thread 28825
Thread 28960
Thread 29044 (temporarily unavailable)

Sarah
Active
Thread 28233
Thread 28236
Thread 28237
Thread 28239
Thread 28242
Thread 28248
Thread 28493
Thread 28494
Thread 28495
Thread 28496
Thread 28501

(Not familiar with the forum structure on an administrative level, I don't know if the above information is the most efficient way to list inactive threads. Certainly, it would be a simple manner to instead list just the thread number, and/or thread title.)

(Sample note to users)

Hello,
One or more threads that you generated have become inactive. No content has been added in more than 6 months and all of its links are dead. Please respond if you wish to have these threads preserved. Otherwise they will be deleted in 7 days. We will be happy to answer any question you may have.
Sincerely,
FF Shrine Forums

(Amazingly, about 6 or 7 of the threads on these two pages had active links-- all megaupload. The temporarily unavailable are also megaupload. Other megauploads are actually deleted.)

JonC

Voted other...

+ Thread tags, Genre subsections, Archive

I voted "Other".

I think people should only be on this forum to find what they want and when they're finished, leave. They should download a few soundtracks that they were looking for and contribute when they can. I wouldn't need to look at each and every single NES soundtrack thread in the VGM sub-forum just to find the Bionic Commando OST I wanted in the first place; I'd search it up.

I think improving the search engine here should be the first priority, since most people are only interested in a few things. I don't think a lot people are willing (or capable) to follow the rules and organizations of this forum when they are only searching the forum for a few minutes. I really do enjoy the mass chaos of our threads, because it means that I shouldn't be wasting my time looking down a list of randomly arranged albums, but actually focusing on the particular genre or game that I was looking for. Should I discover a killer soundtrack out of all the mess in the DL forum, I feel real satisfaction in spending my time here.

People have made their homes in ffshrine, adapting to their needs and making it accessible enough for people passing by to get what they want and go. There isn't anything wrong with some subforums and tags put into the system; it makes plenty of sense to make it easy to differentiate between VGM and anime. That helps a lot. And collections, such as GoronMoron and the Big Orchestral thread, are popular and lasting enough to be placed in its own sub-section. But for the person that has the munchies for a specific album (which is a lot of us), they should have the tools to find it quickly so they can move on. If that can be done with absolute certainty, without any bugs or delays, we will overcome this forum's inherent disorganization. Like they say, keep it simple, stupid.

---Desert_Eagle

I hardily agree. Tags and sub-forums become less important if a) we have a better search engine (that is, one that can handle multiple search parameters, possibly with the use of " " or + tools,) and b) a consistent process of eliminating dead posts (see my excessive posts above.)
It seems a shame that the best advice I've heard for searching the forum is to not use the internal search engine, but instead use google with special parameter tags.
JonC

There's actually a mod for vbulletin that allows threads to be formally tagged as part of the thread creation process. The tags can also be searched with much less load on the server than a standard forum search. Something to think about...

I love the prefix mod...it ensures uniformity in tags and is easy for mods to add/change if need be. If we add subsections, the prefixes could be color-coded differently for mp3 or FLAC, so if that matters to you, a quick glance can tell you which threads you'd want to take a look at.

But for the person that has the munchies for a specific album (which is a lot of us), they should have the tools to find it quickly so they can move on. If that can be done with absolute certainty, without any bugs or delays, we will overcome this forum's inherent disorganization. Like they say, keep it simple, stupid.

---Desert_Eagle

Agree with this. I love the massive sprawling mess discovery threads... but sometimes you want to show up, find something, download it, and bugger off. The current state of organisation makes that difficult; do I search for the composer's name? The movie/anime name? The Japanese name? The transliterated name? The badly-spelt transliterated name that's popular because somebody used it on a forum years ago and it stuck? The nickname? All of the above? Oh damn, I found it but it's 24kbps RealAudio. I'll start again then...

There is so much going on here, there should be a place for everything; the meticilously filed, utilitarian music archive can live side by side with the megathread-from-hell-800-pages-of-links...

I agree that some way of tagging/noting what audio formats are in the thread would be extremely useful, as well as a better search engine. But at least there's Google.

I think that will work

Well it pretty much looks pretty obvious that the majority would like to have genre subsections (~55% of the people).

Genre subsections and the archive seems to be the way to go. Adding host tags to the subject line might help a little bit too.

I must respectfully disagree.
There are too many threads which fail to fall into easily described subsections. Creating the special categories to cover them creates so many search parameters to make subdivisions meaningless.

Likewise an archive separates active from inactive threads, but does not separate inactive from dead threads (more relevant.) Dead threads need to be deleted. Preliminary research indicates that as much as 50 percent or more of threads on this forum are dead -- that is, no posts in over six months and none of the links work.

An improved search engine would be better than sub categories. Neither system keeps one from coming up with potentially dead links, but a better search engine would limit the searches to specific requested links. At the moment the Google workaround is very effective, so if they can't fix the engine, they might want to better advertise the alternative.

I think the request section should be abandoned. It's not being used as designed, since those who post are not typically looking to see what people want, and a lot of people are posting in the download section already. (Primarily in the filmscore thread.)

It would be fantastic if posters would better label their work. I believe this should be encouraged. However, given how difficult it is to get members to understand and comply with the simplest instructions, I believe it to unrealistic to expect many people to follow through.

Respectfully,
JonC

Captain, first off, most upload sites (megaupload, sharebee, etc.) after a set period of inactivity, the file is automatically deleted. My vote would have to be tighter controls on what is postable, like someone would have to actually LOOK to see if something THEY want to post is already posted, and if not, then and ONLY then should they post it. I have been here for a long time and I hate having to wade through thread after thread for a single album because 10 people all decided they were gonna post the same damn thing. Then on the topic of those "super-threads" like GoronMoron's thread or Porko_Rosso's, i'm with you on categorizing it, but like with those 2 in particular, they have a touch of everything, how would it be grouped, or would they have to split their threads, because I do like that they have a ton of stuff in one spot, it seriously cuts down on search time for a lot of things.

That is a very nice theory with some major practical problems.
First, getting anyone to actually follow it. Without voluntary compliance, the only option is moderator approval on uploads, which is unlikely.
Second, not all uploads are created equal. They vary in bitrate, and source quality, they may have missing or corrupted tracks and so on. Without very complete documentation, it is difficult to be sure if the upload you want to post is an improvement on the original. And has been established, getting compliance for documentation has proven difficult.
I do not know how to solve either of these limitations.
JonC

Ok, well that also puts its into a wider perspective for me Jon, thank you, you brought up things I did not consider.

That's quite alright. Please accept it in the spirit of respect intended. Keep those ideas coming -- eventually something will stick.

JonC

I voted as "Other" to clarify what I think would work best with respect to Tags, which I think is the best option, but which seemed oversimplified in CaptainDolce's initial post.

Tags would be the best solution, I believe, if there are a multitude of tags as opposed to just VGM, Movie Music, Asian, Other. Tags like that are really just creating subcategories. However, if one could search by multiple tags, say... ViGa + Final Fantasy + Lossless, or something like Jpop + Utada.Hikaru + mp3, then tags would be superior.

There is the issue of users creating misspelled duplicate tags or duplicating artist tags by putting last name first or first name first. If that can be moderated, Tags should work excellently.

Keep it as it is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

All I ask is someone finally fucking sticky the Film Score/VGM Hunt thread to the top of the page, once and for all (with a No Varese Shares Allowed appended to the title to stop everyone from bitching).

Splitting up things in various subsections is a perfect way to making a forum deserted. Haven't you guys ever wondered why in 90% of any forum out there there's like 2 subsections that get all the traffic and a ton left to dust? =|

I say keep it as it is, since it works.

Genre subsections+archives.

DO IT! XD

set up some form of php link database? give everything metadata and discussions etc. ?

definitely down for thread tag and archives

A separate forum for anime, j-pop and other non-VGM music would be welcome.

There needs to be reorganization, that's for sure. We need a system that'll make requests heard, and soundtracks found quickly. I'd prefer if GH was updated a bit more with an entire amalgamation of the soundtracks found here, but that's probably not happening. That and it should be reorganized as well.

Generally, I use the search function to look for soundtracks, and sometimes that just doesn't work. We just need some sort of shortcut thread with an updated list, or something.

Keep it as it is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

All I ask is someone finally fucking sticky the Film Score/VGM Hunt thread to the top of the page, once and for all (with a No Varese Shares Allowed appended to the title to stop everyone from bitching).

This sounds like the best solution...agreed

A boolean search method would be nice. But you can search the forum with Google too.
But subsections would be nice.

A nice split down the middle: Lossy/Lossless then subsections: Anime, Movies/TV, Games, Etc

I'm for genre subsections and archive. Seems to be the cleanest separation to me.

I'm personally liking the idea of tagging threads. Being able to quickly glance at the thread title to see what that particular thread is about seems very appealing to me.

There needs to be reorganization, that's for sure. We need a system that'll make requests heard, and soundtracks found quickly. I'd prefer if GH was updated a bit more with an entire amalgamation of the soundtracks found here, but that's probably not happening. That and it should be reorganized as well.

Generally, I use the search function to look for soundtracks, and sometimes that just doesn't work. We just need some sort of shortcut thread with an updated list, or something.

re: gh, it's happening, it's just gonna take a bit ;D

And so far it's looking pretty good. This'll even help with the search engine because now similar key words between movie, anime, and game soundtracks won't be overlapping each other.

Very nice execution, although the music discussion forums is getting alone not being with its download counterparts.

re: gh, it's happening, it's just gonna take a bit ;D

Believe me, I'm being patient.

And I know you guys have gone a long ways since my very first post here.

nice idea to bring this out to poll selection; better and easier this way up for what you have been after, appreciated.