So I checked out the DVD of the first season of this from the library and earlier this evening I watched the pilot episode ("Broken Bow.") I must say, I was pleasantly surprised. One thing, I think, that would immediately strike anyone watching for the first time is just how plain different it looks and feels from anything else you've seen from Star Trek before. I mean, just comparing it with "Encounter at Farpoint" from Next Generation-- it's like everyone on that show was just so green starting out. Here, you can tell that as far as characters they have a certain sense of excitement and newness, but the actors themselves seem very comfortable in their roles, as if they're already old pros. I thought there was a good sense of humor about the show and it certainly looks nice -- first ever Star Trek series originally broadcast in widescreen and they've really done a good job with the alien effects and makeup. I'll definitely be watching more and I look forward to seeing where it goes.



Oh, and now, at last, I finally know what a "Porthos" is.

You're aware Enterprise is generally regarded as the worst thing to happen to Star Trek, yes? Additionally, TNG doesn't pick up until, oh, the fourth or fifth season? Until that point it's just TOS v2.0.

Have you at least watched the movies?

I like how they tried to take a different approach, but I wasn't a big fan of Enterprise. Scott Bakula wasn't nearly as cool as the other captains. I did like the special effects, though... they should have used more Xindi Aquatics! And I also miss having a Trek series to follow now that Enterprise is gone. My favorite series is still TNG, and I've watch seasons 4-6 on DVD more than once.

I'm aware that Enterprise generally isn't all that well regarded, yes, but it did nevertheless have something of a following. Yes, I've watched the movies, and no, I'm not just picking on Next Gen having only watched the premiere of it-- I've seen every episode of Next Gen, most of them more than once.

I've watched some episodes of Star Trek Enterprise and found it to be mediocre at best. Scott Bakula didn't seem right as a Starship Captain to me, when compared to James T. Kirk, Jean-Luc Picard, Benjamin Sisko or Kathryn Janeway. The design of the NX-01 seemed a little weird as well, when compared to other starships of that era (iirc, the one of the first Starships built was the U.S.S. Valiant, which was the first to leave the Milky Way system... though it didn't look anything like the NX-01).

Having been bought up watching reruns of TOS, then TNG etc, I don't know why it was felt that a prequel series was needed. Personally, I'm a fan of DS9, above the others.

I actually considered Enterprise a failure the second I heard it open with a cover of "Faith of the Heart" instead of a composed piece.

But that aside, I tried to give it a chance, but I just couldn't get into it. At all. Similar to Star Wars Episodes I-III, it bugged me how something that was older looked newer. I don't like Scott Bakula much, and no one else in the cast does it for me either. I grew up a fan of the original Star Trek series through syndication (since my father is a Trekkie), and liked TNG, DS9, and Voyager as they aired (DS9 being my favorite). After Voyager ended though, that to me was the end of Star Trek (not counting movies).

The less said about "Faith of the Heart," the better. Never mind that it's not even a composed piece, it's not even a good song.

Voyager is my favorite Trek. It gets a lot of crap, but I find it amusing that the worst that Television Without Pity can throw at "Threshold," the supposed worst episode of the program, is a grade of "C."

Enterprise is definitely the worst of the Star Trek series. For me it was a combination of bad characters, badly casted captain (compare him to Avery Brooks or Patrick Stewart and there is no comparison), and bad plot lines. I will admit I haven't seen every episode and didn't get much past the first season but all the ones I have seen are about relationships between people. Now, don't get me wrong, I think there is definitely a place for this in Star Trek and "relationship" episodes can be good to really flesh out characters. But to have almost every episode about relationships of some kind seems like a total waste of a space series. If I wanted to watch a show about relationships I would watch Six Feet Under or something like that but for Star Trek my favourite type of episodes are the ones about strange phenomenons and entities and other strange space related things. Enterprise had none of that.

So combine this with the bad characters and you have a show that I really could take to.

Welll, I still reserve the right to bail if it starts sucking hard for me...

I have always been a pretty hardcore Trekie and Enterprise at first pissed me of from the geek point of view. What I mean by that is the writers took the established encylopedia of facts and dates and threw them out the window. But after a while I came to love the crew and though the stories were sometimes rehashes from the other episodes in TNG, DS9 & VOY...I really was sad to see it go.

Having not seen any of Enterprise when it originally aired I had very low expectations but started watching anyways at the start of summer. The first season was pretty so so for me but later on they seemed to get things under control and I was actually pretty impressed with the ambition of the third season. While Archer didn't have the same kind of commanding presence as past captains I thought the supporting cast did a really good job, especially Trip and Flox.

For me Enterprise is not the best of trek, but far from the worst, and Similitude is one of my favorite trek episodes ever. Overall I came away from Enterprise much more impressed than I thought I would be.

It was the worst of the series. Usually I'd give specific reasons why, but it has been forever and all I can recall, is after watching Voyager, Star Trek hit its all time low.

It was the worst of the series. Usually I'd give specific reasons why, but it has been forever and all I can recall, is after watching Voyager, Star Trek hit its all time low.

It started a little slow but damn after season 1 ended it started to get really really awesome. Season 3 and 4 were my favourite. And I have been watching sci-fi shows since the mid 90s :). I think it deserves more credit than its got. Star trek enterprise was a little more believable than most of the other star trek.


I enjoyed star trek enterprise. Its a shame that they cancelled such an amazing series. DS9 now that was mediocre and boring. It wasn't that great. My favourite star trek would be voyager though fantastic.

I could never get into that show. They ignored and pretty much destroyed most of the continuity made by all the other trek shows/movies which even before Enterprise was pretty messy anyway, half the cast didn't get hardly any development, and the finale was presented stupidly. :(

And I have been watching sci-fi shows since the mid 90s .

I've been watching sci-fi shows since the early 80's. Buck Rogers, Star Trek TNG etc. I found some of the sci-fi shows of the 90's to be flat at times myself.


DS9 now that was mediocre and boring. It wasn't that great.

Personally I found ST DS9 to be quite enjoyable. Not as sterile or clean as the other ST's. Also, the first not to be centered on a Starship, but a space station near the only stable wormhole (There is another Wormhole featured in ST, the Barzan wormhole. One entrance fixed in the Alpha Quadrant, the other end deviates from the Delta Quadrant to the Gamma Quadrant and back again), therefore while in the DS9 story, places it at a strategic location... but also allows for more free way with new characters, customs, cultures etc to be shown.

IMO, ST DS9 while it did have moments which were, as you said 'mediocre and boring', all tv shows have those same moments.

I liked a lot of Deep Space Nine also. The problem I felt, though, with the show, and the reason I think it hasn't succeeded as well in syndication as the other Star Trek series (it's currently the only Star Trek series not being broadcast in repeats in the U.S.) is that it was almost always so damn serious. Sure, every once in a while it would give you a lighter episode like "Our Man Bashir" or "Trials and Tribbleations," but most of the time it was either Bajoran religion, or war stories, etc. etc. And there's a place for that and oftentimes it can make for very good storytelling, but if you keep feeding people a steady diet of that, eventually most of them are going to tune out. They want escapism.

I love Star Trek first of all. Didn't care much for the Original Series as it was really to old for me to get into and let's face it, a lot of the episodes was just plain goofy. Next up was TNG absolutely loved it. Every episode. It one of those series I just can pop in the DVD and start anywhere and relax. But that wasn't the series that I first started watching. Voyager was the first series that I had been watching on a regular basis and some episodes was just out there. But yet it was Star Trek and I loved it. Deep Space Nine was my favorite by far. I own all the box sets. It was better written, better plot and it built on the previous episode. Don't get me wrong I still loved the TNG episodes that where a different problem seeded in each one.

And at first I didn't care much Enterprise when it came on air. And stopped watching them for some reason or other. But later down the road when I was just getting into a heavy Netflix binge, I started to miss Star Trek, because I had watched all the other series and they were no longer on the air. I put the first season on my queue and re-watched the first ones and it just grew on me from there. I think Scott does a great job as captain. I would definitely buy the box sets sooner or later.

I really do hope they make another Star Trek series for TV, but I'm afraid it well be alot different from the ones we know and love. Makes me almost sad that they might not ever make another.

I love Star Trek first of all. Didn't care much for the Original Series as it was really to old for me to get into and let's face it, a lot of the episodes was just plain goofy. Next up was TNG absolutely loved it. Every episode. It one of those series I just can pop in the DVD and start anywhere and relax. But that wasn't the series that I first started watching. Voyager was the first series that I had been watching on a regular basis and some episodes was just out there. But yet it was Star Trek and I loved it. Deep Space Nine was my favorite by far. I own all the box sets. It was better written, better plot and it built on the previous episode. Don't get me wrong I still loved the TNG episodes that where a different problem seeded in each one.

And at first I didn't care much Enterprise when it came on air. And stopped watching them for some reason or other. But later down the road when I was just getting into a heavy Netflix binge, I started to miss Star Trek, because I had watched all the other series and they were no longer on the air. I put the first season on my queue and re-watched the first ones and it just grew on me from there. I think Scott does a great job as captain. I would definitely buy the box sets sooner or later.

I really do hope they make another Star Trek series for TV, but I'm afraid it well be alot different from the ones we know and love. Makes me almost sad that they might not ever make another.

Did you see the animated trek series yet? Ya know now that I thinka about it, no matter what your opinion is about Voyager & Enterprize, whether you liked them or not you gotta admit that the doctors EMH & Flox were very good characters.

It's not the best of the Star Trek mythology, but it is decent.

The series took itself too seriously at some points and the plot got convoluted.

But, the cast was pretty decent and I'm a huge fan of that blue (or was it green?) race that pops up.
Especially the main actor from it.

Haven't seen the animated series yet. Glad you mention it... must add it to my Netflix queue. And yes both docs from Enterprise and Voyager are great characters. Very colorful if I might add.

I've never seen The Animated Series. Good on ya' for mentioning it, though, because I do enjoy watching animation in general. I should probably give it a look sometime.

So far I've watched about seven-eight episodes of Enterprise. Woulda watched more, but then I got the complete first season of The Mentalist and went through it so that I could be caught up for the second season. I'll be getting back to it soon, though.


From what little I've seen of Enterprise so far, yes, their doctor is a fairly fascinating character. And yeah, some of my favorite episodes of Voyager involved the Doctor / EMH. Particularly, "Author, Author."




Holographic Paris: Welcome. You've made an excellent choice. You're obviously a person with impeccable taste.
The Doctor: Computer, freeze program.
Computer: Unable to comply.
Holographic Paris: You are about to embark on a remarkable journey. You will take on the role of a medical assistant aboard the Starship Voyeur.
The Doctor: Voyeur?
Holographic Paris: Your job will be to assist the Chief Medical Officer, and learn to tolerate his overbearing behavior and obnoxious bedside manner. Remember, patience is a virtue.
Holographic Paris: (off-screen) Chapter one. "It's The Doctor's World, You're Just Living In It."

I have to say I love Enterprise, I've seen quite a lot of episodes from several series but I don't know exactly which ones they were (I've been watching them on tv) and I'll admit there have been a few dull episodes, and quite a few that followed the plot of episodes from previous series but I still don't see why everyone hates it so much.

What does everyone have against Scot Bakula? I thought he made a pretty good captain. Plus he has an unbelievably cute dog.

I liked the episode where one of Flox's wives comes on board and he tries to set her up with Trip.

P.S. Gratuitous decon scenes.

So after nearly a year of watching the DVDs (and online or TV in some cases), I'm finally coming up to the end. Just finished watching "In a Mirror Darkly, Part I." You know, you read about certain things online, but still, they can't convey how fully awesome this was. From the moment it opens, with the scene from Star Trek: First Contact and the music. And then the Vulcans step off the ship, the guy salutes, and Zefram Cochrane pulls out a gun and shoots him-- then the group races forward and raids the Vulcan ship. End scene and then the epic opening begins-- the dark Star Trek: Enterprise[/b] and the epic, evil music. Followed by approximately forty minutes of pure awesomeness. From what I know of the other mirror universe episodes in the other [i]Star Trek series, they were about people from our universe, crossing over into the mirror, but it looks like this one is all about the mirror universe. Really looking forward to watching part II. And you just get the sense that this is what so much more of the series should have been-- the kind of television that people who watched were surely talking about that evening online or with their friends the next day, and hooked to their televisions for the next installment. Given what I've heard about the three episodes following these, it's going to be a real letdown by comparison.


For those that are interested, CBS.com, StarTrek.com and TV.com are offering most of Star Trek: Enterprise online currently, in several different quality options, including 1080p. Unfortunately, these don't have any closed-captioning, and several episodes aren't available, including the "Mirror, Darkly" episodes.



But, the cast was pretty decent and I'm a huge fan of that blue (or was it green?) race that pops up.
Especially the main actor from it.
The Andorians! Yes, that was very good and I think a lot of people liked that, including me. The character you're thinking of is General Shran, portrayed by Jeffrey Combs, who also did Weyoun in Deep Space Nine and several other characters. A class act.

I know I am quite late in replying to this thread, I just now took notice...


I have to say I love Enterprise, I've seen quite a lot of episodes from several series but I don't know exactly which ones they were (I've been watching them on tv) and I'll admit there have been a few dull episodes, and quite a few that followed the plot of episodes from previous series but I still don't see why everyone hates it so much.

What does everyone have against Scot Bakula? I thought he made a pretty good captain. Plus he has an unbelievably cute dog.

I liked the episode where one of Flox's wives comes on board and he tries to set her up with Trip.

P.S. Gratuitous decon scenes.

not everyone. I am actually a Fan. In the sense of IDIC I love them all. Including ST Enterprise and certainly Bakula ;)
Although my first love always belongs to TNG (although I grew up with TOS).
:D

every series has dull episodes, even B5 had dull episodes.

btw, I like the pocket books too. for each series.

Oh, I read Star Trek books too. Though I haven't read any Enterprise books yet-- maybe once I'm finished watching the show.

Ever notice how pocket books hardly ever fit into regular pockets, sorei?

I got that Next Gen. VCR board game with 45 minutes of a star screen and a klingon ordering you around. Sadly I've never found the right time and group to play it. (the instructions say that because the rules are so intricate and confusing if you get stuck just make stuff up.)

Ever notice how pocket books hardly ever fit into regular pockets, sorei?

I got that Next Gen. VCR board game with 45 minutes of a star screen and a klingon ordering you around. Sadly I've never found the right time and group to play it. (the instructions say that because the rules are so intricate and confusing if you get stuck just make stuff up.)


....that is why women have hand bags.... :D

I have no experience with pc games at all....

....that is why women have hand bags.... :D

I have no experience with pc games at all....

I'm not talking about a PC game or a game on a console, what I'm talking about my dear sorei is this:
YouTube - Star Trek TNG Interractive Board Game Kavok clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atWnjWvF2jg&NR=1)

Star Trek: The Next Generation Interactive VCR Board Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Interactive_VCR_Boa rd_Game_%E2%80%93_A_Klingon_Challenge)

A Board game that came with a VHS tape that you ran while playing the game!

I'm not talking about a PC game or a game on a console, what I'm talking about my dear sorei is this:
YouTube - Star Trek TNG Interractive Board Game Kavok clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atWnjWvF2jg&NR=1)

Star Trek: The Next Generation Interactive VCR Board Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Interactive_VCR_Boa rd_Game_%E2%80%93_A_Klingon_Challenge)

A Board game that came with a VHS tape that you ran while playing the game!

oooops, sorry, apparently there even more Star Trek things I don't have a clue about, even if it is star trek, I just read 'game' and instantly thought you were talking about a pc game. Sorry! :)

I'll have a look at the links, thanks a lot!

Star Trek: Enterprise is nice movie. I am aware that the company generally is not as well seen, yes, but I did however, have some followers. Yes, I've seen the movies, and no, I'm not picking on Next Gen that he only saw the premiere of it - I've seen every episode of the next generation, most of them more than once.

The thing I hated the most about Star Trek: Enterprise was how much Archer packed back and forth...it seemed like he did that in every single episode. And another thing I hated was how often Archer would get kidnapped!

One thing I did like about the show was T'Pol...especially in those episodes where she had long hair.

Sorry to resurrect a dead-ish thread, but I wanted to share my thoughts on Enterprise.

I'm fairly young (Enterprise premiered when I was 9), so my concept of "quality TV" was very loose and unrestrictive when I first watched Enterprise (as well as the other series'); I imagine if I were to rewatch the first couple seasons of Enterprise, along with TNG and VOY, I probably wouldn't be able to stomach the cheese.

I will admit that Enterprise wasn't the best of the shows. However, most people didn't give it a chance. The first two seasons were very, very hit & miss. The quality was all over the place, in terms of writing. But, I've always really enjoyed the cast (except for Hoshi and her incessant whining and her plethora of phobias).

The show didn't really find it's groove until the 3rd season. However, that season also had problems because the network forced done-in-one episodes in the middle of a season-long story arch, which really killed the flow of the Xindi plotline. Season 4 was definitely the best. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it featured some of my favorite Star Trek episodes (which included the Augment episodes, the Klingon ones, and the Mirror Universe two-parter).

The finale just blew that great season all to hell, though. Riker and Troi had no business being on Enterprise, even if it was their last chance to play the characters. It completely derailed the wrap-up for the Enterprise cast, almost as if saying they weren't good enough to be part of the Star Trek family. It also didn't help that what probably would've been the entire rest of the show (maybe 2-3 seasons worth of plot) was shoved into 120 minutes.

Anyway, rant over. I just thought I'd stick up for a decent show that most people didn't even bother to watch before judging.

The finale just blew that great season all to hell, though. Riker and Troi had no business being on Enterprise, even if it was their last chance to play the characters.

"These Are the Voyages..." is a frame story. The 22nd century events of the Star Trek: Enterprise are shown through a holodeck re-creation during the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Pegasus". In the 24th century, Commander William Riker observes a recreation of the events surrounding the formation of the United Federation of Planets, hoping the events of the past will help him make some important decisions.


Anyway, rant over. I just thought I'd stick up for a decent show that most people didn't even bother to watch before judging.

It was a mediocre show though... I hated how it retconned already established elements within the Star Trek Universe (IE: The Klingon head ridges, The Borg appearing earlier than was shown (obvious tie in to Star Trek First Contact)).

"These Are the Voyages..." is a frame story. The 22nd century events of the Star Trek: Enterprise are shown through a holodeck re-creation during the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Pegasus". In the 24th century, Commander William Riker observes a recreation of the events surrounding the formation of the United Federation of Planets, hoping the events of the past will help him make some important decisions.

But in doing so made the main characters Riker and Troi, not the crew from the ACTUAL SHOW, who were more of an afterthought.


It was a mediocre show though... I hated how it retconned already established elements within the Star Trek Universe (IE: The Klingon head ridges, The Borg appearing earlier than was shown (obvious tie in to Star Trek First Contact)).

But like you said, First Contact opened the door for Borg in the past (so it wasn't Enterprise's fault; and actually, I think it makes sense that some Borg would've survived the destruction of the Sphere), and the Klingon's with ridges and them without in TOS was actually explained rather well in the episode "Divergence" (though it was never explained how Kor, Kang, and Koloth grew ridges very late in life in DS9).

I have a friend of mine who worked on the episode and confirmed what we all felt was the case. The series finale was a de facto fuck you to the entire cast. They knew it, they were pissed, but they were professional enough to get through the episode. Why was it? Because the showrunners, (Brannon Braga and Manny Coto-- Rick Berman had left by then,) were dicks. (And thieves. But that's another story.) To a) base the finale around another show's characters, and b) kill Trip with the stupidest death in Trek history (he might of well been hit by a bus,) is disrespectful to all the hard working actors and their characters. Their strong performances were the reason I generally enjoyed Enterprise. (Even when they made T'Pol a crack ho.)
Done ranting,
JonC

It was just very disappointing to me that a series that showed such great potential in its last season was cancelled, and then its finale wasn't really even a very good wrap-up for the cast.

And then we got "Star Trek" 2009... gah.

But in doing so made the main characters Riker and Troi, not the crew from the ACTUAL SHOW, who were more of an afterthought.

The final episode of Star Trek Enterprise was pretty much considered by cast and fans alike just as JonC stated: a de facto fuck you.


But like you said, First Contact opened the door for Borg in the past (so it wasn't Enterprise's fault; and actually, I think it makes sense that some Borg would've survived the destruction of the Sphere), and the Klingon's with ridges and them without in TOS was actually explained rather well in the episode "Divergence" (though it was never explained how Kor, Kang, and Koloth grew ridges very late in life in DS9).

Remember though, after the Borg sphere was destroyed, the Borg transported to the Engineering deck on the Enterprise E. When Data smashed one of the Warp Core's plasma conduits, the plasma destroyed all organic matter on that deck and without their organic parts, the tech side of the Borg couldn't survive. It was pretty much thought that all Borg were killed on the Enterprise E. Also, having the Borg appear in Enterprise, gives the Federation forewarning of one of their most dangerous foes... pretty much ignoring when Q threw the Enterprise D into the Gamma Quadrant, in front of a Borg cube.

No... it wasn't the episode"Divergence" which stated the Klingon head ridges, it was the episode "Affliction" which had the explanation for the ridges as a confirmation of Dr Julian Bashir and Chief Miles O'brian's conjecture about them in the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations". Both Bashir and O'brian commented that the ridges were either a viral mutation or genetic engineering. Both are considered correct.

For Kang, Kor and Koloth... one possible explanation for their head ridges could be that the genetic engineering was temporary. However if that's the case, why hasn't Arne Darvin retained his true Klingon form? If it was a viral mutation... and considering the Klingons long life span, perhaps they outlived the virus's lifespan.

I still didn't like Enterprise for all the obvious retconning they did with established storylines etc from the other Star Trek shows. That's the thing with prequels though... majority of fans grow up with a show and can move on to the next installment no problem, but when going from Voyager (set in the 24th century) and then going back to Enterprise (set in the 22nd century), it's understandable that not many would jump on board or even give it a chance.

Personally, I felt the stories weren't as good as TNG, DS9 or even VOY's... though I will admit the cast was good and I did enjoy the episode "In a Mirror, Darkly" two parter.


It was just very disappointing to me that a series that showed such great potential in its last season was cancelled

Joss Whedon's Firefly comes to mind... that was a great show...


And then we got "Star Trek" 2009... gah.

Let the alternate universe Star Trek saga begin... Seriously though, how the fuck does a cadet (Kirk) go from being discharged from Starfleet Academy, then to become the First Officer of the flagship (Enterprise), and then to become Captain... in a week?!? EXPLAIN THAT!!

Enterprise was killed for maddening, but valid, economics. Next Gen pulled huge numbers in first run syndication, Deep Space Nine less so. When UPN was founded, they created Voyager to be its anchor show. Voyager did alright, but not the numbers the network needed. They were too embarrassed to kill it early, so it was allowed to finish its seven year run. At this point, all sense and reason would say that a new show should go back to syndication, but for reasons no one has ever explained, at least to me, it was also put on UPN. The series was doomed even before the pilot aired. Simply put, in most markets, there are only a few stations available, and they're already taken by the older networks. (In some smaller markets, networks have to share affiliates.) By the time Enterprise began, most of the country lacked UPN affiliates. It was winning its timeslots in most markets, but that still represented only a fraction of the country, and a show like Enterprise needs national numbers to cover its bills. Season four was suppose to be a soft reboot (Add Manny Coto as a new producer, nix the Temporal Cold War and such,) but without new stations to air it, nothing could help.
If they had put it in first run syndication like Next Gen or DS9, it probably would have finished its seven years.

The Borg episode was obvious but not offensive. The Klingon story solved a problem that was, at its heart, unsolvable. (It's also one Manny stole. I got to pitch my own version when I heard they were developing it. It was rejected, described as 'the stupidest idea I ever heard.' It was certainly out there, and I bear no ill will that it was turned down.) Darvin wouldn't change back because, a) he was surgically modified to pass as human, b) he was imprisoned until just before Trial and Tribble-ations- thus, he might not have had access to a cure.

JonC

Remember though, after the Borg sphere was destroyed, the Borg transported to the Engineering deck on the Enterprise E. When Data smashed one of the Warp Core's plasma conduits, the plasma destroyed all organic matter on that deck and without their organic parts, the tech side of the Borg couldn't survive. It was pretty much thought that all Borg were killed on the Enterprise E. Also, having the Borg appear in Enterprise, gives the Federation forewarning of one of their most dangerous foes... pretty much ignoring when Q threw the Enterprise D into the Gamma Quadrant, in front of a Borg cube.

I was actually thinking of when the Enterprise fired on the Sphere. Given that the Borg are quite resilient, and don't require oxygen (or maybe even the entire body) to survive, I don't find it unlikely that a few survived the destruction and were thrown into the Arctic more or less intact.


Joss Whedon's Firefly comes to mind... that was a great show...

Yeah. Too true.


Let the alternate universe Star Trek saga begin... Seriously though, how the fuck does a cadet (Kirk) go from being discharged from Starfleet Academy, then to become the First Officer of the flagship (Enterprise), and then to become Captain... in a week?!? EXPLAIN THAT!!

I know. The entire film was basically just one giant plot hole, with tons of bad dialogue, ridiculous character decisions, moronic plot points, and questionable morality.

But it wasn't just the writing irritated me (though it was a big part). It was also the general lack of respect for Star Trek. One of the producers even went on record saying he'd never seen an episode of Star Trek and didn't plan on seeing any in the future.

While the FX were very nice, I also didn't like most of the production design. It just did not look anything like Star Trek whatsoever. Trek has never used (at least to my knowledge) existing locations for sets. I didn't like the "gritty realistic" feel of the new Trek. Especially the engineering sets. The Kelvin's was an industrial plant, and the Enterprise's was the Budweiser Factory.

There were just so many things about the new Star Trek that weren't even remotely close to being Star Trek, that I don't even know why they kept the title.

But, every time this film gets brought up I go on a fan rant, and I'm actually quite tired of being so negative. I hope the second one is better, as they have all of the set-up out of the way now. But, I've basically hated everything Kurtzman and Orci have done (only M:I:3 is bearable), so I'm not too enthusiastic about it. Especially if the rumors about Khan prove true.

Your anger needs to be directed at J.J. Abrahms, a hack of epic proportions. (Man, I never thought I'd ever make posts this mean.) The problem is, that no matter what you think of his film, it made stupid crazy money. As far as the studio is concerned, it IS Trek.
However, despite the fact that it made a butt load of money, there is no new script. Rather there was a script, and now there's just a treatment, or that they're working on a treatment. Its release date has been pushed back. The most likely explanation is that the script they turned in was so bad, that even the studio said, we just can't back this. I had heard they're intent was to go in a more serious direction, so maybe that's where it all went horribly worse.
JonC

Only two actors in that movie did credit to their roles: Karl Urban and Dr. McCoy and Simon Pegg as Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott. Rest of it... ugh... even the design of the USS Enterprise, while still paying homage to the original... internally wtf?

It's lifted from Gabriel Koerner's retro Ships of the Line calender design. He was going for a tribute to the covers of the James Blish novelizations.

Then they went a little crazy. As I have heard, Mr. Abrahms kept telling them, keep making the engines bigger, even though the design's now totally out of balance. (Visually.)

JonC

At first, I hated the design, but I'm not quite fond of it (even though I will concede that the nacelles are too large). Internally, I like the look of bridge and the corridors, but everything else just looked too present day, and futuristic enough. I also hated the CONSTANT LENS FLARES! Gah!

There was a time when I wouldn't have blamed Abrams. But after rewatching Alias (which I used to love, but now cringe at) and Fringe (how did this show get FOUR SEASONS when Firefly only got one, and both Dollhouse & TSCC only got two?!), I'm willing to admit that he's good at action, like Michael Bay, his storytelling ability and screenwriting need a lot of work. That said, I'm still going to see Super 8 (I just hope it isn't overly Spielberg influenced).

As for Urban and Pegg: Pegg truly was great as Scotty, but Urban's performance to me seemed far too forced. It look like the accent took all of his concentration, and unfortunately he didn't even sound close to be Southern (most like a mix between Boston & Scotland). I think Quinto was also quite good (at least more memorable than the rest of the cast), but Kurtzman & Orci horrifically clunky Vulcan dialogue utterly killed his performance.

I'm just glad to find people that also didn't enjoy the film. Basically everyone I talk to either really enjoyed it (for some strange reason) or didn't like my attacks on it, because I was "ruining the fun" or some other nonsense like that. That it's "just a movie". Well, I understand that, but that doesn't mean I can't bitch about a product that someone made. I payed to see it, and I have a right to express my misgivings about it.

If Super 8 is worth anything, it will be entirely due to Spielberg's influence. (It's the evil Close Encounters.)
JonC

I have to admit, I'm not Spielberg's biggest fan.

For the most part, I've only enjoyed his R-rated films. Anything done by him that can be viewed by kids is usually not for me (not a fan of those "feel good" films).

The reason why I say I hope he doesn't have much influence on Super 8, is because practically every single film he's produced in the last decade I've absolutely despised (though I don't know if it was because of his involvement or not).

Could be worse... Could've had Uwe Boll in charge... /shudders

@JonC: Those designs are almost as bad as the Enterprise D, any of the Nebula Class Starships and the Intrepid class...







... almost...

I love the designs, actually (except for the Nebula-class; we are in agreement that it sucks ass).

I also very much like the Sovereign-class design, which has gotten a bad rep from fans.

I really don't like the D. It was designed by Andy Probert, who's work on Trek goes back to Phase II, and who was the chief designer of the STMP Enterprise. It used a lot ideas considered for Phase II. (As well as a basic configuration designed by Star Wars designer Ralph McQuarrie.) Ultimately, I blame not Probert (who's work I find erratic at best,) but rather Roddenberry, since this vision of the Enterprise was all about making the Federation seem less dangerous. Thus all the forms are rather shapeless, (especially the 'weapons.') Everything else were solutions to problems, not great, but I understand what they were going for.
The Nebula class is literally kitbashed from a commercial Galaxy class model. Once you've decided to go down that road, expectations should remain low.
Voyager, (Rick Sternbach) being a big running shoe, is essentially the Heart of Gold. It doesn't bother me much except for the big space clit. Not on moral grounds, but rather that everything in Federation design had been about smooth surfaces, and this sudden collection of nernies, (all over the ship, the clit just the most egregious example,) is an arbitrary violation of previous design heritage.
The Defiant, meanwhile, is based on Matt Jefferies' Leif Erikson (UFO Mystery Ship,) minus the nose. And the NX-01 is an upside down Akira class mixed with a P-38 Lightning. So what is new, anyway.
JonC
PS: I actually like what Gabriel did with the Enterprise.

I loved the Defiant Class myself... unlike the other Federation starships usually being for exploration or scientific study... the Defiant class was built purely as a warship. IIRC, it was originally meant to be a Borg Killer, what with the ablative armor, multiphasic shields, the multiple phaser array directly linked into the oversized warp core, quantum torpedoes and a Romulan designed cloaking device.

Perfect for the Bulldog of Deep Space Nine (yes... I'm a fan of Deep Space Nine moreso than any other Trek).

http://www.freecomputerdesktopwallpaper.com/new_wallpaper/Star_Trek_USS_Defiant_NX74205_freecomputerdesktopw allpaper_1280.jpg

I love DS9, really, I do. And the Defiant is a fascinating concept for a ship. But as a shape, I've never really liked it, and within the context of Trek, it raises problems, (as was pointed out in episodes.) I won't get into them here, it would take way to much time to cover. Let's just say I have issues with the Defiant.

Oddly enough, the Leif Ericson was also the basis for the MacArthur in Larry Niven's A Mote in a God's Eye.



JonC

Yeah, the Defiant is badass.

But, I was talking about the Enterprise from First Contact to Nemesis.

I just love how sleek it looks. And the yellow deflector dish was a departure that I liked.

So...Star Trek: Legacy?

It's all about solving problems. The main one at play is giving the ship's not only a sense of scale, but a sense of increasing scale. The easiest solution is to keep the same basic configuration but squeeze the design along a particular axis. In the case of the D, that meant making it wider (and less phallic.) That didn't work out so well, so afterwards they went with what Excelsior used, making it longer. In practical terms, something has to go, and the easiest thing to dump is the neck. By the time you get to the E, the neck disappears completely.
I think the E's okay, although I think the arrowhead pattern on the underside of the hull is unnecessary.
JonC

(Sorry, I meant the D in the earlier post.)

I'd like 'them' to make a ST series that's focused on war at the start and then goes to peace - like some kind of 'reverse' DS9.

Get some great warships from all sides.

Given the money the reboot film made (in the gajillions,) all previous formats and stories are irrelevant if a new series were launched. Right now there is no impudence to do anything but movies...And they're having serious problems even doing that right now. (There will be another film. It's just a question of how long before they fix the spectacular script problems.)

If you remove this from the equation, and still make shows a viable option, you still don't get a war series. As far as Trek is concerned, they already had that with DS9, and they're right. As much fun as the ships would be, you can't make a show just out of ship designs. From a character and plot standpoint, there's not a lot of material left to work with that DS9 didn't already cover. You'd have better luck pushing for stuff in a new game.

I can't speak for Legacy, I haven't played it. But from what I've read, I'm not excited enough to seek it out. There are other pure Trek war games that seem like a better fit.

JonC

I dig that, but I mean more I'd love to have a post Voyager - time line wise - show.
Somehow get Janeway, Pickard, and Sisco all in the same room (all being admirals and such).

Start off during an intergalactic war with either a 'new-ish' villain, or old ones united, and have the Federation - which now includes the Kligons, Romulons, and (IDK, 'free Borg') struggling to survive.


Yeah, it's no 'Bridge Commander' but it is a fun game on the 360 - pretty simple - feels more like a fighter, but with ships.

Considering that Sisko's body is at the bottom of the Cave of the Pah-wraiths, and his soul is in the Celestial Temple (IE: The Wormhole), I doubt he'll return unless it's in a incorporeal form... but then again... this IS Star Trek. They found a way to bring Kirk back from the dead at least twice outside of the Original Series (As in Generations, in the Nexus. Also in a Star Trek book Shatner wrote, where Kirk was revived by Romulan and Borg technology (which also in that same book brought back the Mirror Universe, with Picard's counterpart as well as... Tiberius himself)), so to find a way to bring a spirit back into a body is somewhat conceivable.

Star Trek Legacy... only good thing with that game was the online multiplayer... the story was a joke really.

If there was a new Star Trek series, I'd rather they did the one they supposedly planned (but was shot down) before Voyager. A Starfleet Academy series, which at the time, could've had Nog as a main character and detail some of the things he went through at the Academy. I know there was a limited Starfleet Academy comic series by Marvel, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

You have to learn to let characters go. Let them have happy lives, unencumbered with the burdens of enemies or viewers. Let them explore, let them love or let them lie about. You only have Picard, Sisco and Janeway because they were willing to leave Kirk behind.
Is this about the people, who they are and what they are? Or is this about watching cool ships blow each other up in cool ways? (There can only be one highest priority.) And if they are new ships, does it even have to be Trek? Start from scratch, a clean slate. Your playground to put what you think is cool, dumping what you think is stupid. Maybe nobody but you will ever care about it, but it will be yours and you will love it.
JonC

---------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 PM ----------

When Voyager finished, the question arose as to what would replace it. As I saw it at the time, there were four options, each with benefits and limitations. First was a ship that operated completely within the boundaries of the Federation, that pushed the political angle already present. (Basically an anti-Voyager.) Not that sexy. Second was a Klingon series. Very expensive to do every week. Third was a group of subspace explorers, combining the feel of several shows. (The exploration of TOS mixed with the fixed locale of DS9.) Fourth was a prequel. I didn't think it would work, since they'd have to build new sets, costumes and props. (Boy, was I wrong.)
I never took a Starfleet Academy series seriously. There's a reason why it keeps getting pitched and keeps being shot down. It's lazy. Paradoxically, it's difficult to write well, but easy to write badly. By it's nature, it would repeat the lessons learned on previous shows, and dumb down what is shown. (Every version pitched was aimed at a younger audience.) It won't last seven seasons. (They have to graduate, certainly by the end of season 4.)
Anyway,
JonC

I must say, I really enjoyed the "Star Trek: Enterprise" show - it took me a bit to get used tot he song at the opening credits - but I came to grudgingly like it as it fit the show pretty well - though Is till think an orchestral piece by James Horner would have been a better choice - to capture some of the exuberance of ST2 or 3. I mean - since they brought Goldsmith back for NextGen & Voyage - that would have been quite a boon for fans!

I also liked the episodic more gritty nature of it - and the return to form for a lot of the aliens we missed out on - esp. the Orions from the original series. I still have to see the final season - as my TV went away that year :( I was sad to see them cancel it so soon - while letting what I deemed to be an inferior product like Voyager run a seeming eternity.

-Jazz

I've started watching the show for the first time and love the look and writing. I can't fault the show anything other than its timeline, which I still don't get why they went that route.

I think they were trying to explore a new aspect of the Star Trek universe, while at the same time trying to appease fans.

Voyager was apparently hated, and since Trekkies were really wanting something nostalgic, similar to TOS, this is what we got.

Something new and fresh, while at the same time taking place in the past of the known Star Trek franchise; something that explores the creation of the Federation.

I also think it's more commercially viable, as the 2151 isn't as distant as 2371, so it gives it a "near future" angle that might be more appealing to laypersons.

I watched Star Trek: Enterprise but didn't like it as much as I liked the Original Series or Deep Space Nine.

I felt that Archer was kidnapped too much and paced too much...plus it always seemed to me that it didn't take much for him to act irritated (although I guess continuously getting kidnapped would make anyone keep getting irritated!)

The best parts for me from the show were the episodes where T'Pol would have long hair...

i think star trek enterprise was the best

I really enjoyed Enterprise, I just wish in a way they didn’t change the Trek history as much…how Starfleet looked the ships and uniforms. I would still like to see the powers that be do another series and put it in Pike’s timeline.

Well, for me Enterprise wasn't the best entry in the Star Trek television franchise, but it wasn't that bad. I think it was a very original idea to fill that gap in-story before Star Trek: TOS; and I think some episodes were really cool, I especially remember the episode Regeneration... yet, I won't deny the final seasons were kind of boring, with a lot of things happening at the same time and lots of drama. I'd like to see another entry in this timeline, but with the success of the "reboot" film that unlikely will happen.

I thought that Enterprise's first and second seasons were ruined by the temporal cold war plotline that went nowhere and the fact that pretty much every other episode was Archer + random crew member in an alien prison getting punched. That being said, I thought that season three was a great improvement and I actually think that season four was probably my favorite season of a Star Trek series period.

That being said, I don't really mind what setting a new Star Trek series takes place in or what characters are used as long as the series tries in any way to actually say something interesting about the future, humanity, and science, something that the new J.J. Abrams reboot did not have, even though I otherwise liked the movie.

I just finished rewatching Enterprise via Netflix. It was much more coherent within itself than I remembered it being, and there were many more above average episodes than I remembered. How it fits into the Prime canon is a whole other story. Obviously, it was created to be part of the Prime canon, and being part of the Abramsverse might not solve its inconsistencies, but ... I discovered that thinking about Enterprise as part of the Abrams timeline somehow made it work better for me.

Enterprise really started to hit its prime with the Xindi story arc (Star Trek's version of 24-style pacing). Could have gone on another couple of seasons.

i have a serious question to all star trek fans here:

is there a point, in the entire series (and movies) where theres an emphasis on space combat? i mean, ship-to-ship laser show? im asking because i went to see the reboot, and i was excited seeing the two ships battle it out, but the rest of the movie i was bored to tears, it was only at the end when that enterprise clone comes in firing lasers at the missiles that i enjoyed myself again.

TL:DR: i love space combat, is there any on the entire series?

i mean, i was expecting a lot of this:




and got nothing

@ROKUSHO : Star Trek Deep Space Nine, Seasons 6 and 7 had a lot battles... the opener for Season 4 "Way of the Warrior" had the Klingon armada attack Deep Space Nine in accordance to then High Chancellor Gowron's dissolution of the Khitomer accord, declarin war against the Federation.





Youtube vids:
Star Trek: DS9 - massive starship battle! HQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89WcIwjlQxA)
Deep Space Nine Battles (Long video, no crappy music !) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4)
Star Trek: DS9 "The Way of a Warrior" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_hZpEve6jI)
Star Trek: DS9 "Sacrifice of Angels" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXUgl87YFnQ)

so... 4 episodes in the entire series feature space combat?
thats.... kind of sad.

but thanks for the videos anyway, they were a refreshment to watch

Not just four episodes, those were just highlights. The big space battles in DS9 started about midway in Season 6 but mainly season 7.

Star Trek was never about 'big lay-zer shows in space'.

The only reason DS9 had so many is that the writer created a war with another 'sort' of Federation.

Even then, most of ST is still focused on the people, not the tech.

It wasn't a war with another 'sort' of Federation Tanis, the main power of the Gamma Quadrant, the Dominion. Led by the enimagtic Founders (Changelings like Security Constable Odo), there was the Vorta and the soldiers, the Jem'Hadar. The Dominion joined forces with the Cardassian empire, due to a treaty ochestrated by Gul Dukat (Former commander of Terok Nor, now known as Deep Space Nine). Against the Dominion/Cardassian alliance, was the Federation, Klingons and Romulans...

most of ST is still focused on the people, not the tech.

so instead of laser shows, we got this:

Worst Fight Scene Ever - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eFdUSnaQM)

....most of ST is still focused on the people, not the tech.

and I am happy about that :)

everybody has different preferences, so while some like ROKUSHO are disappointed there are not more battle scenes, I for one am happy about that ;)

It wasn't a war with another 'sort' of Federation Tanis, the main power of the Gamma Quadrant, the Dominion. Led by the enimagtic Founders (Changelings like Security Constable Odo), there was the Vorta and the soldiers, the Jem'Hadar. The Dominion joined forces with the Cardassian empire, due to a treaty ochestrated by Gul Dukat (Former commander of Terok Nor, now known as Deep Space Nine). Against the Dominion/Cardassian alliance, was the Federation, Klingons and Romulans...
The Dominion, in a lot of ways, was like the Federation.

The Federation was all about unity, bringing order to a chaotic universe.

The Dominion did the same thing.
But they did it with an iron fist, instead of an open hand.