Well, is it?

First off, I've noticed that some people consider VII to be overrated because it has sold a lot of units, it is talked about a lot, has X number of spin-offs or some other similar reason. That doesn't make VII overrated; it just makes it popular, two different things.

That said, Final Fantasy VII is my favorite game and I don’t think that it is overrated; I think it is a monumental groundbreaking game worthy of all the praise it has received. It singlehandedly brought the RPG genre into the mainstream, giving rise to a herd of clones after it's release and was a crucial factor in the failure of the Nintento 64 and the triumph of the Playstation.

I'll try and elaborate a bit on some general aspects of the game. As a whole, VII takes a new approach to the world of an RPG. It got rid of the castles, kingdoms, kings, knights and princes which had become the trademark if not the clich� of the genre and the series. It brought instead a modern world that more directly parallels our own. This allowed gamers to better relate with the world and characters of the game and derive something from it that is applicable to their lives. The game also has plenty of social commentary to encourage that, something that previous games lacked for the most part.

Character development also rose to a new level with this game as the characters got more deep and able to convey a wider set of emotions than in previous games. It is not just because of the better graphics, it is their behavior, the way they move, react, speak and change during the game. Each character has a strongly marked personality and is several layers deep.

The story itself is far more engrossing and complex than any of the previous FFs and travels into a new territory, previously untouched, in exploring the psychological aspects of the characters and coupled with the modern world in which it takes place, it touches on issues that are directly relevant to our world, unlike previous games which seemed content to remain on their own bubble.

The game also moved away from the typical two dimensional villains that had been part of the series. Now it was not just some crazy evil man who wanted to destroy the world for no reason other than pure enjoyment. Now we get a villain with more sophisticated motives and also a set of antagonists whose motives and machinations are explored to great detail (the whole Shinra staff). The game also blurs the line at times between good and evil, trying to make you see the acts of the antagonists as good, such as when Shinra is trying to stop the Weapons and Meteor, a good development that we would see again in X and XII.

The materia system was quite innovative in my opinion and to this day remains my favorite system. It is like the job system...but on steroids. It gave grater freedom to customize your characters than previous games. Something I like about the materia system is how strongly tied to the story and the rest of the game it is. It is not some isolated thing that is relevant only in battles; it is rooted in the story and directly derived from it.

There are also many small but great things that were new which I think are often overlooked but is what contributes in making this game great. I mean, I never did something in an RPG like riding a bike to escape some place while soldiers chase me and I have to take them down with a sword, or chasing a submarine while firing torpedoes at it, or climbing a cold mountain while keeping an eye on my body temperature, or something like the strategy battle at Forth Condor or breeding Chocobos. I could name more of these small things but all in all, the game packages so much variety into it and so well, it is like if you do a bit of everything in it. All this is also distributed across the story very nicely and the game enjoys an incredible pacing, never allowing a dull moment to creep in.

The new graphics were also a major breakthrough for the series in particular and RPGs in general. Granted, games with better graphics have been released and compared to them the graphics of VII feel dated, but I think the graphics, dated as they may be, still hold up quite well today and the FMVs even more so. Games with better sound quality have also been released; which is not to say that their soundtracks are better than VII’s, just that they have a fuller sound.

But neither graphics nor sound alone are what make this game a masterpiece, it is in something that can be achieved apart from these things where VII truly excels and where it’s true charm lies: story, characters, pacing, game play, etc.

That’s where the magic is and after all these years this is what remains and will remain of VII (unless there is a remake, in which case the graphics and sound would rise to new heights). These things are more than enough for it to soar head and shoulders above all others. New games may have better graphics and sound, but in my mind, they have yet to top VII in the other more important things.

Well, this turned out longer than I expected...discuss.

inb4Prak

/facepalm


Why am I expected to make an appearance every time one of these ignorant fankids makes a thread praising that decidedly mediocre game?

BOO YAAAAAAAAAH

It should go without saying, of course, that no game is perfect. As good as I think FF VII is it still has its share of issues. In particular the game is too easy and lacks challenge. This has been a problem in the series ever since VI was released. However, in VII this lack of challenge ends up hampering the potential of the materia system. Due to how easy the enemies are, you are never forced to come up with a strategy or materia combination in order to defeat them (the Weapons being an exception), and in most cases you end up being overpowered. I think the game lacks balance in this regard. Making the enemies harder or making the effects that equipped materia have on the characters more pronounced would have made things better.

I re-tried playing it a few weeks ago. I put it back in the box, then crushed it.

I put it back in the box, then crushed it.

Too bad, you would have gotten some good money for it on E-bay.

Egami, the discussion if rather Final Fantasy VII is overrated or not has been done to death on this and almost every other Final Fantasy and Gaming forum. So don't expect a deep 100 post debate on it.

Personally, Final Fantasy VII is a good game, but overrated. It's overrated because most people who played it didn't ever know what RPG was until after they played Final Fantasy VII. Now these people are claiming the game is the best RPG ever made, and the best game ever made. Any season gamer knows that is not true. That's just one of the reasons a lot of people call it overrated. Just like with Halo, most people didn't know what FPS was until after they played it. Because FPS dominated the PC. Now, they're claiming Halo is the greatest FPS ever made.

It's overrated because most people who played it didn't ever know what RPG was until after they played Final Fantasy VII.

Correction: They still don't know because Final Fantasy VII is not an actual RPG. It's an adventure game with RPG-inspired combat. I've said it before and I'll say it again; fuck the japs for spreading that bullshit definition of the genre. I know they only did it out of ignorance, but fuck them anyway.

You must really love your RPGs, Prak. =/

Hasn't the genre been known as JRPG for a while now, to seperate from the "true" ones?

Most people only do that because they play differently, rather then to note that one is not actually a RPG.

I feel VII is the best because for me it's the first installment in the franchise that Sqaure bothered to release in my country. Apparently my feeble English mind just couldn't accept an RPG from the NES/SNES era. I also think VII was a technological marvel for the PS1, demostrating the virtues of CD based games over cartridge.

Because origami characters are way-the-hell better than even the best sprite-based characters.

I don't think it's overrated, I think that it's just popular and for a good reason. It's a fun game to play and has a good story. It's not my favourite of the series but I can see the appeal it has.

Because origami characters are way-the-hell better than even the best sprite-based characters.

The models in VII are most definitely better than the sprites in previous FFs:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q238/mooDoom/tifa.gif vs http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q238/mooDoom/terrasprite.gif http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q238/mooDoom/bartzsprite.gif


With the new models, the motion of the characters is vastly improved, allowing for a wider range of expressions and emotions to be conveyed. Now characters are not limited to five or six static poses, which are the same for every character, in order to give different reactions (as was the case in previous FFs) but are given a nearly unlimited freedom of movement allowing for a greater distinction between the characters.

Granted, they are not the best models ever, but that they are an improvement over what had been done previously in the series is quite evident.

I don't think it's overrated, I think that it's just popular and for a good reason. It's a fun game to play and has a good story. It's not my favourite of the series but I can see the appeal it has.

Yet you think VI is overrated.

WOW

FFVII is overrated. End of story. Good bye. Bad game. Deffinatly not my most favorite, ever. Bad graphics, characters, story, everything.

Yet you think VI is overrated.

WOW

Hey puppy bitch, stop replying to every single one of my posts with off-topic bullshit.

FFVII is overrated. End of story. Good bye. Bad game. Deffinatly not my most favorite, ever. Bad graphics, characters, story, everything.

Posts like these are hard to take seriously, specially from someone who has said "VII is too mature for me (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=907356&postcount=27)" and "The beggining was slow, the ending was fast (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=907356&postcount=27)".

The beginning is so slow that no less than a minute into the game, you are already fighting soldiers and rushing towards a reactor to blow it up and are quickly set up story-wise about what is going on and what you are doing. Compare and contrast with other FFs and you'll see. The ending is so fast that it lasts around 15 minutes (sans the credits), a time it takes to give a great conclusion to the story.

Given what you said in the last linked post, your complain sounds more like: I got confused about the game/story therefore VII is "an awful and unfinished game". You may want to check the logic of that.

Hey puppy bitch, stop replying to every single one of my posts with off-topic bullshit.

rofl, Don't get butthurt for getting called out.

rofl, Don't get butthurt for getting called out.

Getting called out is fine. Having someone reply to every one of your posts with pointless comments is annoying.

*Random off topic flame post that tries to look cool by insulting Harkus.

Doesn't matter how many times I hear fanboys (and fangirls) rave on about this game, my opinion still remains the same.

Yes, Final Fantasy VII is overrated. It was okay for it's time and made Square a shitload of money.

Now move on to next gen before I kneecap you kthx.

With the new models, the motion of the characters is vastly improved, allowing for a wider range of expressions and emotions to be conveyed. Now characters are not limited to five or six static poses, which are the same for every character, in order to give different reactions (as was the case in previous FFs) but are given a nearly unlimited freedom of movement allowing for a greater distinction between the characters.

FFVII's origami characters had about the same amount of animations as the old sprites did. That's why Cloud did his "hair-flip" animation about ten bajillion times over the course of the game. They also looked like shit and didn't fit with the pre-rendered backgrounds at all. For having "nearly unlimited freedom of movement," how come they couldn't properly navigate stairs?

It was okay for it's time and made Square a shitload of money.

Now move on to next gen before I kneecap you kthx.

What is your point here? That a next gen game is better just because? That we should forget about all the FFs that came prior to XII or consider XII to be the best simply because it is next gen?

Speaking about money, it is worth noting that VII is among the 20 top selling video games of all time with 9.8 million copies sold to date. It is second only to Grand Turismo as the best selling video game on both Playstation and Playstation 2. It also sold more than any Xbox, Gamecube, Nintendo 64/Super Nintendo (sans Mario which comes with the console) or Sega Genesis game.

It goes without saying that it is the best selling FF title as well. But the point here is not just that, but rather, that prior to VII, both VI and IV had sold around 3 million each (counting the Playstation re-releases) and after that, VIII to X sold between 5-6 million each. While their sales where not as high as VII, they were nearly twice as much as the sales of all the FFs that came before it. VII�s role in dramatically expanding the FF fanbase and in bringing the series in particular and RPGs in general into the mainstream couldn�t be more evident.

While it is true that simply selling more units does not automatically makes VII a better game, still these are facts that should be taken into consideration. What did VII do that turned a decade old series with 6 titles under its belt spanning two consoles and with a relative niche fanbase into a mainstream powerhouse? What did VII do that made it such a determining factor in the triumph of Sony over the Nintendo 64 and the Saturn? What did it do that to this day it is the source of additional games and a movie?

Obviously it did something right. Brushing off the success of VII as the product of mindless people buying a mediocre game they had no clue about is about as false and na�ve as brushing off the success of Titanic as the product of teen girls who simply wanted to see DiCarpio in the film. Both VII and Titanic were highly successful for a reason and that is that they did something right, they appealed to a wider audience, had more that people could relate to and liked, were innovative, groundbreaking, etc. In other words, they were both high quality products.



FFVII's origami characters had about the same amount of animations as the old sprites did. That's why Cloud did his "hair-flip" animation about ten bajillion times over the course of the game.

For an example, go and look at the battle pose and victory dance for each character on both games. That a character does the same move a lot of times during the course of the game is not pertinent to the point I made.



They also looked like shit and didn't fit with the pre-rendered backgrounds at all. For having "nearly unlimited freedom of movement," how come they couldn't properly navigate stairs?

What model are you talking about? The one you see while walking around or the in battle models? Just like IV and V before it, VII had a smaller and less detailed model for walking around towns and fields and a larger more detailed model for the battles. Yet, even the model used for traveling, less detailed as it is, is better proportioned and has a more fluid movement than the sprites in previous games. I really can�t see how you can say that they looked like shit and at the same time praise the large headed/static pose sprites of previous FFs.

Anyway, in what sense do you think they didn�t fit with the pre-rendered backgrounds? The color palette used for the characters as well as their brightness and contrast fits quite well with the different backgrounds of the game. They also go around and behind objects and walls and below roofs, something that makes them feel part of the backgrounds as well.

A far as stairs go, did you see how they climb upside stairs and how they go around air tunnels? I think they do so quite properly and their movement is rather realistic and unlike what anything the sprites of previous FFs did. Is the point that they do not show a different movement when they are climbing the stairs like the ones in the Shinra building than when they are running on a flat surface? Granted, but that is hardly an issue and a relatively small drop in the bucket. As I said, I agree that the models in VII are not the best ever and that better have been made (yeah, perhaps even before it in Resident Evil), but that still doesn�t changes the fact that they are better than the sprites of previous FFs.

The point about the models in VII being better than sprites of previous games is really largely moot. You're comparing games from two different eras; of course there's going to be a significant gap between an 8-bit graphical engine and a 32-bit one. A better comparison would be to pit VII's graphics against the other FF games (and other games of other series) from the PS1 era. Compared to VIII and IX, the graphics are decidedly mediocre, at least in the field. Also, the consistency of the graphics in FMVs is shocking too:



Notice the blockhands and squarely-defined limbs.



Notice lack of said flaws.

While I'm on the point, the same argument can be applied to many of your other points in your original post. FFVII was able to have much more dialogue than previous games were allowed due to console restraints. As with graphics, it's best to compare it with those games of the same console era. While the characters probably had more depth (and at least more breadth of depth) than FFVIII, the same cannot be said with regards to FFIX, where each character, with the possible exception of Quina, who's just comic relief, is thoroughly explored.

To make a paralell to your point, a similar argument would be me saying that FFX's graphics, battle system (and, arguably, plot/characters) were the best thing since sliced bread purely because they were a significant improvement on FFIX's. Compare the graphics to FFXII and the battle system to FFX-2 though, and things don't look so great. Don't get me wrong, I like FFX, but there are a number of things it could have gotten better.

That is a point that seems lost on you; there are a number of good things FFVII did, but a good chunk of what it did well was also bettered by the other FFs of the PS1 era. You can't just ignore that while comparing the game to those on older consoles.

Egami, I'm not going to bother deconstructing everything you've said, so just consider this a friendly warning.

You're looking like a terrible fankid right now. I could very easily dismember your entire argument (assuming I wasn't too lazy to actually type it out) and it's reasonable to think there are others who can and likely will do the same. Save yourself a bit of humiliation by bowing out of this while you can and take a little time to rethink your positions, as well as your fatally flawed methods for arguing them.

Of course, you won't get anything more than that vague, cryptic spiel from me because I want to see if you'll actually be able to better yourself without someone holding your hand. I certainly hope you do, as I so rarely see new members exercising such impeccable grammar.

Ceidwad, SNES is 16-bit.

The graphics being the worst on the PS1 era should be a given, seeing as it was... the first of the era with new technology.

16-bit, 8-bit.....it's all the same. :p

VII being the first is largely irrelevant. VIII was released a year or so later, and look at the improvement in the graphics there. Time alone cannot account for the disparity in quality between VII and VIII's graphics.

I forgot where of your long posts you put that argument, but it was something like "FFVII sold best, and there must be a reason for it to be so successful."

These sells are actually not really something to be taken so seriously, since they weren't sold in, let's say the first 6 months of it coming out, but from its release until today. Keep this in mind.

So, what does Final Fantasy VII feature that people like to have in any game?
It has:
- A young male anime-ish main character with an oversized sword and a dramatic past
- A longhaired angsty villain having a black coat and an oversized Japanese (!) sword, as well as a dark past
- Said villain has a theme with some chorus singing Latin and his name
- An anime-ish girl who needs to be protected
- A girl with big boobs
- A vampire
- A mad scientist
- Explosions

This is just a small part of what FFVII makes so popular. It just throws in elements which are totally hyped by the masses, and that's the only thing it does well, in my oppinion.

Also, I can't agree with you on VII's soundtrack is good. In my oppinion it has the worst soundtrack in the whole history of Uematsu's compositions - only a few tunes are good, and I don't count One-Winged Angel as one, since that actually is a pretty bad song.
As I already said, many games in FF-history are way more colourful (not literally meant) and nice to play.
Oh, and FFVII was my first FF, too. I still think it's one of the worst in the series. For its time it was a good game, but it's not deserving so much hype.

16-bit, 8-bit.....it's all the same. :p

VII being the first is largely irrelevant. VIII was released a year or so later, and look at the improvement in the graphics there. Time alone cannot account for the disparity in quality between VII and VIII's graphics.

Well if you think about it, if you look at the final final fight with Sephiroth and the hi-res models (not sprites, people) you can see that they only found how to code the nice shit late in development. This can explain the "quantam leap" shown in VIII's graphics.

Also, to kinda compare, look at GTA3 then GTA:VC on the PS2. GTA:VC was released, I think, under a year after GTA3 and it had graphical improvements.

Well if you think about it, if you look at the final final fight with Sephiroth and the hi-res models (not sprites, people) you can see that they only found how to code the nice shit late in development. This can explain the "quantam leap" shown in VIII's graphics.

I rarely had any issue with VII's battle mode graphics, just those in the field and on the world map. Although the battle with Sephiroth did indeed have reasonable graphics, the rest of the game featured good battle graphics but poor ones in the field.


Also, to kinda compare, look at GTA3 then GTA:VC on the PS2. GTA:VC was released, I think, under a year after GTA3 and it had graphical improvements.

Conversely, compare FFX with FFXII and there is no great disparity in the graphics, despite them being four years apart, although some gameplay aspects are greatly revised. It is just as plausible, arguably more so, to consider the VII/VIII case simply as being lazy design in VII's case.

Could be, or maybe the developers wanted to fuse two different designs. Keep the feel of the old 2-D sprites, but make them 3-D models.

That's what I've always thought, anyway.

I forgot where of your long posts you put that argument, but it was something like "FFVII sold best, and there must be a reason for it to be so successful."

These sells are actually not really something to be taken so seriously, since they weren't sold in, let's say the first 6 months of it coming out, but from its release until today. Keep this in mind.

So, what does Final Fantasy VII feature that people like to have in any game?
It has:
- A young male anime-ish main character with an oversized sword and a dramatic past
- A longhaired angsty villain having a black coat and an oversized Japanese (!) sword, as well as a dark past
- Said villain has a theme with some chorus singing Latin and his name
- An anime-ish girl who needs to be protected
- A girl with big boobs
- A vampire
- A mad scientist
- Explosions

This is just a small part of what FFVII makes so popular. It just throws in elements which are totally hyped by the masses, and that's the only thing it does well, in my oppinion.

Also, I can't agree with you on VII's soundtrack is good. In my oppinion it has the worst soundtrack in the whole history of Uematsu's compositions - only a few tunes are good, and I don't count One-Winged Angel as one, since that actually is a pretty bad song.
As I already said, many games in FF-history are way more colourful (not literally meant) and nice to play.
Oh, and FFVII was my first FF, too. I still think it's one of the worst in the series. For its time it was a good game, but it's not deserving so much hype.

This post wins the thread so far. Final Fantasy VII was made to appeal to the American Masses and it succeeded in that respect, but to call the game the best RPG or best game ever is quite ignorant in my opinion. I also stated many times in the past on other forums how One Wing Angel is so overrated, and how people claim the FFVII soundtrack is the best FF soundtrack simply because of it. Overall the soundtrack was a disappointment to me. Compared to the epic soundtracks in the 16-bit games, FFVII soundtrack took a huge step back.

Personally, I thought Wild Arms was better than FFVII back in 1997. The game paid tribute to classic JRPG's while at the same time introduce a original concept of the game have a futuristic Wild West theme to it. The story was better, the characters more likable then all the ones in FFVII. The Wild West theme soundtrack is one of my favorites. Even the ending was better. FFVII had one of the worst JRPG ending I've seen.

Personally I don't agree with Sherlock's post. It's all speculation with no backing information.

That's like saying the original Mario was popular because:
-The protagonist was an Italian and a plumber
-The antagonist was a giant turtle/dragon/thing
-Turtles... with wings!
-Pipes
-Mushrooms
-Monies


I mean, seriously... =/

Shrooms and pipes were a huge selling point for Mario

I believe those were just in the game to symbolise how the game/concept/story was created.

For an example, go and look at the battle pose and victory dance for each character on both games. That a character does the same move a lot of times during the course of the game is not pertinent to the point I made.

So because each character has their own victory dance, there's "nearly unlimited freedom of movement allowing for a greater distinction between the characters?" Yes, that was a direct quote. Yes, that was your point. And yes, I'm saying you're wrong. If the characters had so much "freedom of movement," why were they stuck in the same handful of animations for 30-plus hours? Each character getting their own victory pose isn't so much a leap in character design, but a result in the monumental leap in storage media technology, namely CD's.


What model are you talking about? The one you see while walking around or the in battle models?

If "origamis" wasn't descriptive enough, then you seriously shouldn't be in this discussion.


I really can’t see how you can say that they looked like shit and at the same time praise the large headed/static pose sprites of previous FFs.

Small wonder, that. I didn't praise the sprites in my post. If you have a point, make it. Don't build strawmen. The origamis looked like shit because they looked like origamis, with their sharp angles, really low polygon counts, and funky anatomies, like Cloud's clown-feet and hand-less Popeye-arms.


Anyway, in what sense do you think they didn’t fit with the pre-rendered backgrounds? The color palette used for the characters as well as their brightness and contrast fits quite well with the different backgrounds of the game. They also go around and behind objects and walls and below roofs, something that makes them feel part of the backgrounds as well.

The characters didn't fit because they stuck out against the pre-rendered backgrounds like a sore thumb. You have these generally decently-rendered backgrounds with characters that look like they came out of the original StarFox. If you can't notice that contrast, you seriously need to remove the fankid blinders.


A far as stairs go, did you see how they climb upside stairs and how they go around air tunnels? I think they do so quite properly and their movement is rather realistic and unlike what anything the sprites of previous FFs did.

The stair-climbing animation is the running animation. The characters just happen to move upwards (or downwards) at an angle that's fairly close to that of the stairs, which is precisely the same thing that the old sprites did. How is that an improvement? That's also rather contrary to your prior point that the characters have "nearly unlimited freedom of movement."


As I said, I agree that the models in VII are not the best ever and that better have been made (yeah, perhaps even before it in Resident Evil), but that still doesn’t changes the fact that they are better than the sprites of previous FFs.

Why are they better? The only concrete example you've given to back your opinion is that the characters have their own victory poses. Like I said at the top of this post, given the leap in technology, specifically that of storage media, that's about as revolutionary as a new flavor of Coke.

Cyan, you're such a fucking fanboy :rolleyes:

Example:

I am such a fucking fanboy

Undeniable proof is undeniable.

Cyan, you're such a fucking fanboy :rolleyes:

Example:


Undeniable proof is undeniable.

Damnit swami! You weren't s'posed to tell anybody!


I'm ruined... :(

Personally I don't agree with Sherlock's post. It's all speculation with no backing information.

That's like saying the original Mario was popular because:
-The protagonist was an Italian and a plumber
-The antagonist was a giant turtle/dragon/thing
-Turtles... with wings!
-Pipes
-Mushrooms
-Monies


I mean, seriously... =/

Back then, those things were seen as innovative to a videogame. Unlike FFVII which just combined a bunch of already popular concepts together to appeal to the masses, with no real substance.

Back then, those things were seen as innovative to a videogame. Unlike FFVII who just combined a bunch of already popular concepts together to appeal to the masses, with no real substance.


Im guessing you bought the game.....

Back then, those things were seen as innovative to a videogame. Unlike FFVII who just combined a bunch of already popular concepts together to appeal to the masses, with no real substance.

Once agan, speculation without any backing.

Please show me a source that agrees with what you and Sherlock are saying and I'll shut up... about this.

Notice the blockhands and squarely-defined limbs.



Notice lack of said flaws.



You know, I had never noticed this prior to reading your post. Just goes to show how inconsistent the character models in FMVs really were.

The difference in FMV models can be easily explained by saying, there's no point to transfer over to the bigger, more detailed model in these small, sometimes trivial, scenes.

I'd see no point in using the larger models for only 10-30 seconds. =/ Especially when they're only for transitions.

Im guessing you bought the game.....

What game?

Um...

Candyland

Candyland was so overrated.

Ya know what's funny?
The first thing all the FF7-tards quote is how revolutionary FF7 was graphics wise.

Um I remember this little dragon game called Panzor Dragoon & another game called "NiGHTS" that beat FF7...a few years prior.

FF7 is so popular because it was:
A) Easy
B) One of the first 3D RPGs...like ever
C) Had such a bad script & plot-holes that gave it that extra "mystery" that's so hip with children of stoners.
D) Most FF7 "XcoreX" fans also have family trees that look like Palms; and ff7 had chocobo breeding...huh.
E) Also, I think this "re-discovery of love" for FF7 stems from the fact that the emo/scene crap is so damn popular.
God forbid people like those that actually got shit done.
Sephiroth is one of the most failed villains of all the FFs; his meteor plan failed.
Shit, at least Chaos managed to look cool while failing...Kelfka destroyed the damn planet and killed most of the pop...Ultimatica nearly destroyed time, let alone most of the world from her time....SiN was, well, killing folks for 1K yrs...
Hell, even the trannie from FF9 (I always forget his name) managed to kill a shitton of people & almost destroy 2 freaking world.

LOL Tanis. Ya got that right.

Once agan, speculation without any backing.

Please show me a source that agrees with what you and Sherlock are saying and I'll shut up... about this.

Uhm... Just look how popular Cloud, Sephiroth and Vincent are? The girls not even so much, since they aren't really that important. Aeris dies, Tifa has boobs and Yuffie (although I think she's a very original character with quite interesting personality, just like Cait-Sith) is hated. Durr.
And it's known by everyone that big swords, dramatic past stories and explosions are "awesome" with the masses. And you can't deny that.

I also believe that VII sold a lot of copies just because of that fanboyism. People went like "OMGTATSDABESTGAMEEVAR" and their friends got interested and bought it, as well. That's at least what I think what happened.

Uhm... Just look how popular Cloud, Sephiroth and Vincent are? The girls not even so much, since they aren't really that important. Aeris dies, Tifa has boobs and Yuffie (although I think she's a very original character with quite interesting personality, just like Cait-Sith) is hated. Durr.
And it's known by everyone that big swords, dramatic past stories and explosions are "awesome" with the masses. And you can't deny that.

I also believe that VII sold a lot of copies just because of that fanboyism. People went like "OMGTATSDABESTGAMEEVAR" and their friends got interested and bought it, as well. That's at least what I think what happened.

Thanks for proving my point.

Thanks for proving my point.

This last sentence was not meant as attachment to the whole post, but only that paragraph regarding selling numbers.

Candyland was so overrated.

no u

This last sentence was not meant as attachment to the whole post, but only that paragraph regarding selling numbers.

Your whole post is one big "this is what I think"

This whole thread is a "this is what I think" post. But then again what are forums for other than posting what you think...

It's fine to post what you think, but when you're trying to prove or state something that needs backing, just saying what you think is not enough.

So, let's turn the tables, Swami... where's your proof that VII is not sold so good because of its appealing to the masses and friend-promoting, but because it is a good game?

Frankly it sold well because of the massive advertising the game had. Hype sells, woman.
Edit: Let's not forget reviewers gave it high marks. Odds are, that helped as well.

But please, point me to where I said it was a good game.

Also, I find that the whole "turning the tables" thing is just an avoidance for posting proof to back your ridiculous claims. So how about you stop avoiding the question. Where's your proof?

Well of course I have no proof, since there is no scientific report about how big swords and explosions are liked by many people.

Then please, stop trying to defend your speculations as if they were fact.

Or do you need a shovel so you can continue?

NO U

Seriously, Swami... if you weren't such a douchebag (and as I'm a douchebag myself, I am allowed to say that!) at times, you'd be really awesome.

Ultimatica nearly destroyed time, let alone most of the world from her time....SiN was, well, killing folks for 1K yrs...
Hell, even the trannie from FF9 (I always forget his name) managed to kill a shitton of people & almost destroy 2 freaking world.

Ugh, failure abounds!

First, Ultimecia didn't do shit; Squall and company tricked her into compressing time so that they could go stomp her ass. Not only was she moronic enough to fall for their trick, but she failed utterly to defend herself against them, despite the "gotcha" tricks the developers dropped on the player.

Second, Kuja quite succeeded in destroying Terra with his Tranced Ultima spell after succeeding in throwing all of the Mist Continent on Gaia into utter chaos by setting Alexandria against pretty much everybody else.

NO U

Seriously, Swami... if you weren't such a douchebag (and as I'm a douchebag myself, I am allowed to say that!) at times, you'd be really awesome.

Didn't realise you'd get butthurt over a FFVII debate.

Currently two options swirl in my brain: Ridicule or leave it at that.

*sigh* Decisions, decisions. :(

It's not about that FFVII discussion, it's about general. ;-;

I'm so happy when someone admits to being a douchebag! =D

Cheers.

Purrr, you're a douchebag.

amidoinitrite?

Actually, proof of the big swords and emo characters contributing to it's success can be seen on most final fantasy VII fan sites, and direct feed back from the players, not to mention that the big sword effeminate male was quite popular with girls and guys in japan. Swami or what ever his name is, is just using pathetic tactics. Also positive reviews and advertisements don't mean a game is gong to sell big. Like a movie release it's the word of mouth that determines the success or failure of a product. And a guy trying so hard to be like someone else is never awesome in my book,

I do take back on comment in my earlier post. It looks like this thread will go to one hundred post after all.

Ugh, failure abounds!

First, Ultimecia didn't do shit; Squall and company tricked her into compressing time so that they could go stomp her ass. Not only was she moronic enough to fall for their trick, but she failed utterly to defend herself against them, despite the "gotcha" tricks the developers dropped on the player.

Second, Kuja quite succeeded in destroying Terra with his Tranced Ultima spell after succeeding in throwing all of the Mist Continent on Gaia into utter chaos by setting Alexandria against pretty much everybody else.

Actually, she did...Squall and co just took advantage of her pride.
I took advantage of "The End".
Heh.

I don't really call Kuja doing that, I mean, I remember him fucking some things up back on Terra, but not totally destroying it.
Isn't the Blue fusing with the Red proof of that.
Mind you, it's been years since I played FF9

Sometimes i think bout the huge difference in Storage between Final fantasy 6 and 7 (a 3 megabyte rom compared with 3 cds totaling almost 2 gigabytes.) That really is an epic difference.
But the quality doesn't actually reflect that so much.

Also i don't think there was much of a difference between the graphics in FF7 , FF8 and FF9. The models improved a bit and were texture mapped instead of Goraud shaded.

In the battles the frame rate drops from about 20 in ff7 to 12 in ff8 and ff9 to squeeze a few more polygons in and the screen is larger (as apposed to the bottom third of the screen being the HUD in ff7)

The world map was quite different in all three games. FF7s looked a bit scruffy and was almost totally flat with loads of pop up. FF8 got a better draw distance but seemed to move very slowly. FF9 looks like its running at about 3 frames per second lol and the huge amount of fogging hides the poor draw distance. But at least it has different levels of terrain.

Shit i'm tired... Sorry if this was too off topic.

Actually, she did...Squall and co just took advantage of her pride.
I took advantage of "The End".
Heh.

What, exactly, did Ultimecia do? She needed Ellone to achieve Time Compression. For pretty much the entirety of the game, she couldn't get her. So Squall and company give her Ellone. Oldest trick in the book; it reminds me a certain horse, but you could ask the Trojans about that.


I don't really call Kuja doing that, I mean, I remember him fucking some things up back on Terra, but not totally destroying it.
Isn't the Blue fusing with the Red proof of that.
Mind you, it's been years since I played FF9

Kuja destroyed Terra with an Ultima while in a Trance. That's why Zidane and company rushed the Genomes out aboard the Invincible. You'll find them in Disc 4 in the Black Mage Village.

it reminds me a certain horse, but you could ask the Trojans about that.

Silly Cyan, horses don't wear condoms!

the huge amount of fogging hides the poor draw distance. But at least it has different levels of terrain.

That's not true at all. Once the mist dissipates, the draw distance is actually better than in FF8.

I liked how the op cited contextual influences in the game. However, VI did actually have a similar modern world which the 1990's could relate to. VII and VI are always on debate for which is the best final fantasy.

I believe that just because a game has sold millions of copies doesn't prove its a great game. it could be ground-breaking for sure and well remembered in history, but VII isn't the greatest final fantasy, its the most well known. and personally i'm kind of sick of all the sequels they're milking out of it (and no story on ancients too! wtf?) but i would like to see a remake.

I personally believe IX is the best final fantasy because of its indepth story no one would ever have guessed just by playing the first disc. While i believe this, i would not have known about final fantasy without VII just like quite a number of final fantasy fans let alone RPG fans.

The greatest final fantasy is always up for debate. XIII is the next on the list, so theres another to add =)

ff7 is my fav ff. imo ff7 has the best music, the best and most gripping storyline, the best battle and junction system, the best cast of characters. it also had more fun sidequests and mini games compared to other ff's, but its also the first ff i played so maybe im biast and dont realise it

ff7 is my fav ff. imo ff7 has the best music, the best and most gripping storyline, the best battle and junction system, the best cast of characters. it also had more fun sidequests and mini games compared to other ff's, but its also the first ff i played so maybe im biast and dont realise it

From your post, I can tell you probably didn't read the entire thread. I'll give you a little tip: stating the way you feel about a game does very little to advance a discussion concerning its merits. I'll give you credit for being skeptical of your own opinion, though.

Edit: Also, in this forum, you are likely to be ridiculed for poor spelling and lack of capitalization and punctuation. I would advise you to revise and proofread your posts before you submit them.

theves wut tha phuk u sayin man

What, exactly, did Ultimecia do? She needed Ellone to achieve Time Compression. For pretty much the entirety of the game, she couldn't get her. So Squall and company give her Ellone. Oldest trick in the book; it reminds me a certain horse, but you could ask the Trojans about that.



Kuja destroyed Terra with an Ultima while in a Trance. That's why Zidane and company rushed the Genomes out aboard the Invincible. You'll find them in Disc 4 in the Black Mage Village.

I think Ultimecia's scheme was an attempt to rip off "Terminator".

il put it a different way, i dont think ff7 is overrated :)

i dont think im gonna lose much sleep if someone tells me ive spelled something wrong:)

dont double post and mispell shit, dickhead.

Yes FFVII is very overrated. Just from the hype though, the game was great, it doesnt need all these sequels and prequels too.

i dont think im gonna lose much sleep if someone tells me ive spelled something wrong:)

It's good that you don't take people's opinions on the internet seriously, but I just figured you ought to know that people will be more likely to respect you if your posts are gramatically clean. And just so you know, I'm giving you a pretty unusually kind response relative to the standards in this forum.

When I began, I double posted and mispelled. AND I TURNED OUT FINE!

Yeah right. You're still an object of scorn and mockery, and you will be until you learn to not be a moronic cunt.

Wow, i can c that Praks still cool.
Neways FF7 has been a very controversial game, is it overrated??? or not??, that question pops up everywhere with differnt opinions soon to follow.
To me it doesnt make any difference, the game is obviously great and in high demand for a remake, thats why there are so many spinoffs. All to pacify the fans and worshippers of the game.

I don't know why it even needs to be asked. Of course it's overrated.

It might have appeared to be an amazing game back in 1997 when people were wowed by the 32 bit generation and the got caught up in the huge hype the game was getting.

But now in 2008 most people with an ounce of sense can look back and see it's not as good as we all thought. I can still enjoy playing through it today knowing that.

Well, here is my opinion. Final Fantasy VII was, at its time, a revoultionary game. Everyone wanted to get their hands on it, because it offered 3D characters that are better than those Sprites. Thats why there are so many fanboys/fangirls. But today, it isn't as great as people thought 11 years ago. Now, that there are more revoultionary games, Final Fantasy VII shoud Finally rest.

I don't know why it even needs to be asked. Of course it's overrated.

But now in 2008 most people with an ounce of sense can look back and see it's not as good as we all thought.

I completely agree - there's no doubt that for it's time, FF7 was seen as revolutionary. But the games have developed in quality since then: storylines have become more complex (with less plot holes), characters have more depth (ignoring the vapid FF8 cast) and overall gameplay has improved. FF7 was a good game for it's time... and that's it. It's overrated because it doesn't really warrant the title of 'Best Final Fantasy,' especially not 'Best RPG' or even 'BEST GAME EVER' (total fan-wankery).

Woah. We definantly need a better argument.
Ill have to summon the best Argumenteet.
I SHALL SUMMON THE MIGHTY____
Ill sing your song!

whys everyone so bitchy here. you all seem so constipated

dont double post and mispell shit, dickhead.

haha you spelled misspell wrong you idiot

You're probably as constipated as everyone else if you bitch like you just did.


Next time you want to post a comment, try to make sure your foot isn't still stuck in you pathetic mouth.

You're probably as constipated as everyone else if you bitch like you just did.


Next time you want to post a comment, try to make sure your foot isn't still stuck in you pathetic mouth.
bwaraghrarawergh?

Please Take ur foot out of ur mouth. Its Impolite

Overrated? Definetely!

The Graphics were BAD at that time! Nothing revolutionary nor new. Just bad, no detail and sucking proportions.
(Proof: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=PkxR4p7P74Y 5:32)

Cloud is at the beginning of the game quite cool, but after and after he gets so friggin' whiney.

The battle system, which is sooo much praised by fanboys and girls is the same system like in FFIV for example only with Materia and Limit Breaks. Oh yeah....:

Materia: Where is the uniqueness in battle? The characters are only walking Materia slots, which no personal combat style. Well there are the Limit Breaks in which they differ, but come on they are not that different.
X had a perfect system there: In the story, each character has his/her own combat role (black mage, white mage, fighter, thief etc) and when you fight the optional bosses you can make them allrounders.

Music: Well not badly composed, the music suffers from the shi*ty technicial aspects of this game. Most songs are only enjoyable in Remixes or remakes (or whatever you want to call them)

Story, Atmosphere, World, Enviroment: Is it a Fantasy world or a Science-Fiction world? I mean machine guns, robots, genetic manipulation, robots, an alien. Well this is not the essence of Fantasy for me.
Then all you do after Midgar is following Sephiroth. Let's go to this town. Oh he's already gone, let's move on. Oh he's gone again...

Characters: While most of them had nice story backgrounds, I think it's quite random who you recruit, starting with Red XIII. You go from town to town and recruit people who you ran accidently into and who have something against the o-so-evil Shin-Ra. In X I think the character relations are much more tricked out.


So this should be it, I know I may seem like a FFX fanboy. Well I'm a huge Fan of X, but I don't think I'm a fanboy (I can stand critic on FFX, unlike FFVII Fanboys on FFVII :D )

Oh and I did not intend to say FF7 is an absolutely crap game. It's just absolutely overrated and the story is squeezed out to the max.



Pardon me, if my English is not 100% correct, I'm no native speaker. I hope this post objective enough and I hope anyone responses to me.

Shattered Skies, you clearly don't know the meaning of fantasy and the elements that need to be present for a setting to be considered as such.


Just a short example to make you think about your misinformed idea of what fantasy is: Star Wars is set in a fantasy universe.


I could also go on and on about your badly formed opinion and how you ignorantly contradict yourself in most of your sentences, but I'll just start the education with your fantasy nonsenses.

Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other supernatural forms as a primary element of plot, theme, and/or setting. Fantasy is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of technological and macabre themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap between the three (collectively known as speculative fiction).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy

Sci-Fi and Fantasy overlap, but IMO Sci-Fi is much more present in FF7 than Fantasy.

i think that it felt modern or even futuristic was one of its strong points. fantasy is fantasy, there is no reason why it cant include science and technology.

Science fiction elements were almost as much present in FF VI than it was in FF VII, but you just don't want to see it.


Just look at the CG intro from the PS port, and that should give a good idea. Now imagine Figaro Castle, and the guns that Edgar uses... with the Magitek Factory, the Magitek armor and all the mecha monsters there are in the game....

Need I say more?

I never mentioned FFVI.

I played until the part where you are on Setzer's Airship and...lost interest. Oh yeah before you mention FFVIII: I also didn't finish this. I stopped playing after the space thing with Rinoa and Squall. Lost interest too.

So if you didn't play much of the games in the series, how can come and say FF VII is too much Sc-Fi and not enough Fantasy. Maybe that's how Final Fantasy games are supposed to be and you're just ignorant to that fact.

Just look at the CG intro from the PS port, and that should give a good idea. Now imagine Figaro Castle, and the guns that Edgar uses...

When does Edgar use a gun?


with the Magitek Factory, the Magitek armor and all the mecha monsters there are in the game....

Weren't the M-tek factory and armor powered by steam and drained Esper power?

I played:

FFI
FFIV
FFX

completely

And

FFII
FFVI
FFVIII

Not until the end.


So I admit: I do not like to many Sci-Fi Elements in a FF Game. Am I ignorant now? Just because I have a personal taste?

I loved that religious/myth based story in FFX.
And I didn't like that futuristic touch in FFVI, FFVII and FFVIII.

Over this we could fight almost forever. Because this is nothing but a question of personal taste.


Do you have any other Pro-FF7 arguments or is that it, Hynad?

So I admit: I do not like to many Sci-Fi Elements in a FF Game. Am I ignorant now? Just because I have a personal taste?


No. But using your personal taste as an argument as to why FFVII is overrated does show a slight ignorance from your part.

Alright I got your critic and I admit that this only personal taste. Some like Sci-Fi elements in FF, some do not.

In fact this topic is very hard to discuss, without subjective opinions, because the popularity of a game relies on personal opinions.

I think this is worked up now.

I'd like to hear something about my other points and no personal flaming...

I'd like to hear something about my other points and no personal flaming...

Don't take it as flaming. You said something and I didn't agree for the reason I stated above. Anyway, how about this:



Cloud is at the beginning of the game quite cool, but after and after he gets so friggin' whiney

Cloud may be the protagonist of 7 but he's just one character. There are so many other characters in the game. Besides one character being this or that may appeal to some whereas to others it may not but it's really not the decisive factor on a game's quality only a part of it. A game can not be considered overrated just because people think one character is cool while others think he's not. And why is he whiny? Because he cries for losing Aeris or because he loses confidence in himself for failing to protect her? It's a 3 disc game and these are just two moments. They're not enough to call him whiny only because of that plus his reactions are perfectly explained because of what preceded them.

Do you have any other Pro-FF7 arguments or is that it, Hynad?



Where did your retarded brain see any pro-FF VII arguments in my comments?


And just to make sure you noticed it, in FF IV, there is a lot of technology as well. The graphics just don't show it as well as in later games.

The tower and the Giant of Babil, the Lunar Whale, the hovercraft, etc... Heck, Cecil, Golbez and Fusoya are all Aliens.

Either you're blind or you have double standards.

Well done! You always have a good argument!

Just like to point out that X was a science fiction rpg. Though not a typical one, it is focused more on the dystopian future section of this genre. And just because a final fantasy game maybe directed towards a science fiction genre doesn't make it any less of a fantasy. If its make-believe its a fantasy. =)

Cloud may be the protagonist of 7 but he's just one character. There are so many other characters in the game. Besides one character being this or that may appeal to some whereas to others it may not but it's really not the decisive factor on a game's quality only a part of it. A game can not be considered overrated just because people think one character is cool while others think he's not. And why is he whiny? Because he cries for losing Aeris or because he loses confidence in himself for failing to protect her? It's a 3 disc game and these are just two moments. They're not enough to call him whiny only because of that plus his reactions are perfectly explained because of what preceded them.

To be fair, he whines about those particular subjects a bit in the later parts of the game, iirc.

To be fair, he whines about those particular subjects a bit in the later parts of the game, iirc.

He does? Ok, but it still doesn't feel so much as being whiny. If you call him whiny in 7 how would you call him in AC (whinier - duh) where he was like - Oh, will I be forgiven, Oh, I'm not fit to help anyone, Oh please makers of the movie, don't have me kill Sephiroth, he's my hero...

Where did your retarded brain see any pro-FF VII arguments in my comments?


And just to make sure you noticed it, in FF IV, there is a lot of technology as well. The graphics just don't show it as well as in later games.

The tower and the Giant of Babil, the Lunar Whale, the hovercraft, etc... Heck, Cecil, Golbez and Fusoya are all Aliens.

Either you're blind or you have double standards.

Did I say that I really liked FFIV? I just said I completed it. I won't make a small review only to justify why I played FFIV.

It's quite pointless to discuss here with you, because you do nothing but ranting about that Sci-Fi thing. I already admitted this is a personal thing and you just keep bitching on that , because you apparently don't have anything to counter my other points.

And there is no point about your rants if you are not a FF7 fan(boy) or a troll.

You didn't make any... single... point.


It was never question of what you loved or not. You should adjust those glasses of yours, or consider getting some because you seem to read things that aren't there.


And to the rest of your comment, I see you cannot counter-argue anything that I pointed out from your attempts for arguments.
Those "rants" that you mention are there only to show you how stupid was your comment about FF VII being too sc-fi and not enough Fantasy.



Also, I'm not ranting. You're the one ranting about the setting of FF VII. I'm pointing at the flaws from said rant, and your misunderstanding of what is fantasy.

I already said that this is a personal opionion about the Sci-Fi/Fantasy thing. And there is nothing I else I have to admit. I won't change my opinion about that just because you think it's wrong.

And who do you think you are? Educating me? Try to take my other points apart on page 4. You seem to be quite good at this.


@DreinIX:

Let's not talk about AC. This movie was mainly comprised of [Personal Opinion Alert!]Whining, DBZ style moves, motor cycles and cell phones.

I think at the end of 7 he kinda loses his determination he had started with. And for ME a hero is someone who overcomes the pain of losing someone... Do you know the story of Spiderman? He was more or less guilty that his uncle died. Yet he looked forward and got a grip on himself...

boy oh boy quite an argument you have there!
hey hynad I think the one who needes a pair of glasses is you!
In FFIV is no Sci-Fi. The Tower of Babel as well as the Lunar wale are remainings of an really really old age comparable to the FFX-Airship. All the high tech in VII is build by ordinary humans! And look at that ugly, dirty FFVII-NY Midgar. I have only 1 question left: WHERE the fuck is fantasy in a hig-tech town like this??

FFVII was not sci-fi at all, guys. To be considered science fiction, its imaginary elements must be possible, or at least plausible, by the established laws of nature. As FFVII mostly invented its own laws of nature, it is pure fantasy.

so its fantasy for you to fight technologie of our time? I mean very often you have to battle Robots and Soldairs with MGs. You may be right its not Sci-Fi like Star Wars. BUT only because you see a movie with technology just as high as ours, you wouldn't say its a fantasy movie, would you?
There is simply mutch to mutch technology in final fantasy VII.

It's not about the existence of technology, as you would know if you even half-understood what science fiction really is. Or for that matter, if you had bothered trying to comprehend what I posted before.

Also, Star Wars is fantasy, not sci-fi.

Also, Star Wars is fantasy, not sci-fi.

Many people would argue against that, although I am not one of them. With the presence of space ships, laser guns and robots it's understandable to think it's a sci-fi film since they are generic sci-fi elements.

Wikipedia isn't really reliable but according to IMDb Star Wars is a Sci-fi film.

Jurassic Park is Sci-Fi.

Forgive me for being harsh but I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ON WHETHER STAR WARS IS CONSIDERED SCI-FI OR FANTASY.

(deep breath) OK, I'm calm now. My reply was to Prak who said: To be considered science fiction, its imaginary elements must be possible, or at least plausible, by the established laws of nature. As FFVII mostly invented its own laws of nature, it is pure fantasy. I thought just saying that laws of nature don't have to apply to be considered science-fiction was not enough so I provided a source.

Oh, wait. Just remembered the Time Machine by H. G. Wells is considered science fiction, no? No laws of nature apply to the whole thing but I haven't heard anyone calling it a fantasy novel.

Forgive me for being harsh but I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ON WHETHER STAR WARS IS CONSIDERED SCI-FI OR FANTASY.

(deep breath) OK, I'm calm now. My reply was to Prak who said: To be considered science fiction, its imaginary elements must be possible, or at least plausible, by the established laws of nature. As FFVII mostly invented its own laws of nature, it is pure fantasy. I thought just saying that laws of nature don't have to apply to be considered science-fiction was not enough so I provided a source.

Oh, wait. Just remembered the Time Machine by H. G. Wells is considered science fiction, no? No laws of nature apply to the whole thing but I haven't heard anyone calling it a fantasy novel.

Where the fuck did this come from? I haven't even been talking to you specifically. Hell, I never even paid attention to you being part of the thread. And why are you trying to argue anyway? It's completely off-topic and senseless, and could easily become downright pathetic if you push it. Not that I won't indulge in the opportunity to match wits (or simply tower over inferior ones), mind you.

Anyway, I see no reply. I just see a link to wikipedia, which is not a counter-argument by any means.

Also, The Time Machine was written over a fucking century ago. Science had not come as far and a great deal more was regarded as being within the realm of scientific plausibility.

Where the fuck did this come from? I haven't even been talking to you specifically.


The first part was to Harkus. (obviously)



And why are you trying to argue anyway?


Cause you can�t say that FFVII was not sci-fi or had no sci-fi elements at all.You said its imaginary elements must be possible, or at least plausible, by the established laws of nature. I say it�s not necessary but let�s say for a while that it is as you say. There are robots with a certain level of A.I. in our time. The game features robots with advanced A.I. that makes them recognize friend from foe and are programmed to do certain tasks (battling mostly). It�s an imaginary element but plausible if not one step away (possible). Wouldn�t you call that sci-fi? And if no, why?

Sci-fi and Fantasy are just oversimplified and useless classifications anyway. People call Ray Bradbury's stories Sci-fi, and he calls those people dumbshits because the fictional science involved in his stories is unimportant to their message in many cases.

Horror is a useless classification. They should merge it with Comedy.

Or Drama.

Funny how this thread went from the FFVII, to Movies, Books, and what defines Fantasy.

o.O It is the simple case of OFF-TOPPICITUS!

I call it a simple case of flatul(interrupted by hideous fart)

-_- Please stop the flatulance!

Nobody's making you smell this thread.

Funny how this thread went from the FFVII, to Movies, Books, and what defines Fantasy.

True, but at least the latter is more interesting, given just how many times the game's been discussed on here!

Late yet again. (stupid reality)
Halo, Overrated- Agreed. Halo also popular-Agreed, still, Remember Wolfenstine, Doom? True FPSs
FFVII, Overrated- Agreed, also popular, still, I'm a fan. Some people deny themselves simple pleasures out of fear of losing ones identity, someone says it's a good game the next person says I don't like it cause I want to be different. I've played a lot o games cause hear say, afew where crap. BtW, isn't sci-fi a sub-gener? Star Wars- fantasy/sci-fi
Willow- fantasy

Hopefully me bumping a month and a half old thread won't bring me too many flames.

But, nevertheless, I read through this thread and had some thoughts.

Final Fantasy VII best Final Fantasy ever? According to quite a few in here, probably not. At the time, it was held as a marvel for being the first 3d RPG. The first RPG for many people. I can go on and on. But I digress.

But my point is this: A lot of people get defensive on the subject because they remember the game being so dear to them when they played it. I feel the same way. The game could've been horrible. But if you had an amazing time and your memory of that remains with you in your gaming years, that's all that counts. Who really cares about all the Technical standpoints on the game?

Almost everything being brought to this thread is opinion, but, being filtered out as a factual statement. Which leads to another Final Fantasy VII thread spent on bickering, haha :).

Summarized version: If you like the game, that's fine. But don't go and tell people, who aren't the biggest of fans of the game, on how you're baffled that they couldn't like the game. To each his own.

thnx for summarizing the thread.

Hopefully me bumping a month and a half old thread won't bring me too ma(interrupted by tremendous, nor'easterly fart)

Thanks for bumping this thread; I had forgotten I used to do this.

Ouchie.

Dully noted.

Nobody's making you smell this thread.

lol

To summarize my view of this game.

Is final fantasy 7 overrated?yes.
Is final fantasy 7 one of the top 20 games on the ps1?Definitely yes, top 10 for me.

Final Fantasy VII is underrated.

Final Fantasy VII is underrated.

Hundreds of Final Fantasy VII websites and character shines, says you're wrong.

Is Final Fantasy VII a large purple waffle disguised as a video game? MAYBE.

Yet Final Fantasy VII is included in most "top" games lists on the web, including the IGN one.

Yet Final Fantasy VII is included in most "top" games lists on the web, including the IGN one.

Since when has IGN's opinion ever mattered about anything..?

Since when has IGN's opinion ever mattered about anything..?
They are a well established gaming review staff. They review games on quality and on many different aspects. I'm sure their "opinion" matters more to some random person posting on a forum.

Not really. A lot of people have realized just how much IGN's reviews are affected by advertising. Their credibility was shattered when they gave perfect scores to GTA4 and MGS4.

Their credibility wasn't shattered at all. When they give a perfect score to a game, it doesn't mean the game is perfect, like they say on their site: "No game is absolutely perfect, but 10s represent the pinnacle of gaming brilliance. It doesn't get any better than this, and products in this range are virtually flawless. This is like winning the lottery on your birthday. It takes a rare and special game to earn a 10 from IGN."

That's all well and good, but are you honestly going to claim that those games are virtually flawless? The obvious answer is no. GTA4 may be a very competent game, but it certainly pushes no envelopes and the mission structure can be ridiculously repetitive. It warrants a high score, but not a perfect one.

MGS4 is well-designed and well-polished, as I'm sure no one would dispute, but a lot of people (including die-hard fans of the series) have made complaints about significant flaws in it. I have not played it and do not intend to, so I have no comment on anything specific, but that does imply that a perfect score is out of line. And then for the reviewer to say that it might even deserve an 11 and heap praise onto every aspect of the game without making a single mention of the things that might turn off some players... that is not professionalism.

That's all well and good, but are you honestly going to claim that those games are virtually flawless? The obvious answer is no. GTA4 may be a very competent game, but it certainly pushes no envelopes and the mission structure can be ridiculously repetitive. It warrants a high score, but not a perfect one.

MGS4 is well-designed and well-polished, as I'm sure no one would dispute, but a lot of people (including die-hard fans of the series) have made complaints about significant flaws in it. I have not played it and do not intend to, so I have no comment on anything specific, but that does imply that a perfect score is out of line. And then for the reviewer to say that it might even deserve an 11 and heap praise onto every aspect of the game without making a single mention of the things that might turn off some players... that is not professionalism.
I do agree you make some good points. I don't think creditability should be smashed for one reviewer praising a game to a very high degree. Some of the other big reviewer staffs such as Game Informer and Game Spot have given the game a perfect 10 as well. I'm certainly not going to claim that I read those reviews, so I don't know what reasons they gave to back up their rating. It's a little more natural for a reviewer (or in IGN's case...a fan of the Metal Gear Solid franchise) to be a little overzealous on their review. The game certainly didn't warrant the case of being a bad game, and not deserving a good score. As to say, on the other hand (just for example), IGN gives 10/10 for some piece of shit Barbie game. I can see that ruining creditability.

It's a little tough to say that creditability should be lost from an opinion that a reviewer gives towards a game. Opinion is opinion. Of course, they should only go so far with it.

But on the other hand, how the reviewer delivers the opinion to the audience is a whole different ball game. I really just need to read their review. I'll probably edit this post a lil' later after I read and gather some ideas on the subject.

Hundreds of Final Fantasy VII websites and character shines, says you're wrong.

People liking the game and its false universe doesn't make it overrated.


Yet Final Fantasy VII is included in most "top" games lists on the web, including the IGN one.

Yeah, underrated games find themselves in these lists.

Then explain, so we can all enjoy a good laugh, what criteria does a game need to fill to be overrated?



Let me guess... It has to be greatly popular, and must be a game you dislike...





Yeah, underrated games find themselves in these lists.

Among other games that are considered by many as overrated. Final Fantasy VII being a good example.

I actually find FFVII to be about mediocre. Not the best, but not utter shit. I enjoy playing it, but that's as far as it goes.

FVII, and FFVIII for that matter, simply failed to capture the charm of earlier Final Fantasies. On its own, it is a fine game, but as part of a series, it disappoints me. I have not played a Final Fantasy since IX, save for the Tactics games.

XII is the best.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Opinion this, opinion that.

I agree wholeheartedly with Hynad

Then you agree with a moron.

ENJOY YOUR IDIOT CLUB!

Swami, you're the one who stubbornly proves himself as a moron every days here.

But I understand you're upset there. Showing us all that you fail emotionally and that you cannot come up with anything to back your case.

You two sure argue a lot.

It makes me sad inside.

People liking the game and its false universe doesn't make it overrated.

The point was to say the game is not underrated. My earlier post stands. Nice try.


FVII, and FFVIII for that matter, simply failed to capture the charm of earlier Final Fantasies. On its own, it is a fine game, but as part of a series, it disappoints me. I have not played a Final Fantasy since IX, save for the Tactics games.

Agreed, though I did play all the Final Fantasy's expect II and III.

Swami, you're the one who stubbornly proves himself as a moron every days here.

So says the dumbass who falls for every one of my trolling traps.

GUD1

That's not something to brag about.

So says the dumbass who falls for every one of my trolling traps.

GUD1
I haven't been here for very long. But you only seem to spew out cheeky bullshit. No real substance.

THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT NEWBIE

DAMN YOU'RE COOL

This thread disintegrated quickly O.o.

Guess it was inevitable

ya'know I have to agree with the fond memories thing, I have fond memories of playing classics. N64 Goldeneye, SSX Tricky such

THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT NEWBIE

DAMN YOU'RE COOL
Just thought I would point it out. Typing in all caps is definitely A plus material :). Keep up the good work, kiddo.

Swami, I know full well that you're trolling.


That doesn't change anything to my constant replies. From what you say yourself, you're a shit stirrer. No wonder why you're such a "respected" member here.

Swami, I know full well that you're trolling.


That doesn't change anything to my constant replies. From what you say yourself, you're a shit stirrer. No wonder why you're such a "respected" member here.

You know I'm trolling, yet you reply. Good job.

As for me being a "respected" member, why the fuck would I care about something so trivial? If you really place your reputation here that high on your list, you may need to sort some things out in your life. Sad, really.

Hynad has been here since 2002. You have been here since 2005.

You more than double his posts. I think you care more than you let on.

For Christs sake. Can't a topic that's been done to death not get done again without being pissed on by irrelevant arguments.

The last 16 posts in this thread have been pointless. Excepting two that were slightly on topic. I get sick of seeing this shit, especially in the Final Fantasy/General Gaming sections. Swami, you know I have plenty of time for you broseph, but can't you keep it in GD?

Hynad, responding is playing right into his hands. And ultimately makes you as much to blame for derailing the thread. You're better than that.

As for the topic;

I think FF VII is a great game. I liked it when I first played it, and have gone through it several times. However, there are so many games out there that outclass it. As NSB already said, XII. I think that is much better than VII. There is only so much you can beat a dead horse until there is nothing left and sadly, that point was reached with this game a long time ago.

I will say that out of all the FF's, VII was the last one to really push the platform it was on. Which should count for something. But XIII looks like it might just take over in that department.

ya'know I have to agree with the fond memories thing, I have fond memories of playing classics. N64 Goldeneye, SSX Tricky such

I loooooooooved Goldeneye. Oman good memories.

I lol'd.





And then I saved the pic. ^^

I personally think that FF7 isn't overatted.

Reasons being

-You'll never...EVER get a bad guy like Sephiroth no matter how hard they try with Seymour in 10, and others.

- You'll never get an epic storyline like this one. So many twists is aweshum <3

- The Materia System and the battle systems are all great. Much better than the ones that are around in the recent FF games, except for FFX. =D

- The game, even when your finished it fully, is telling you to play it again and again <3

These are just four of the many reasons it's not overrated.
I have a friend who HATES FF7, and I don't get why.
He can't bring up any legit reasons for hating it. He just does. And that's just silleh...>_>

- Twilight Yuna

I personally think that FF7 isn't overatted.

It is, though.


Reasons being

-You'll never...EVER get a bad guy like Sephiroth no matter how hard they try with Seymour in 10, and others.

Personal opinion, no fact. Also, Sephiroth is not a bad guy, he's just a combination of what many people find appealing (long silver hair, long leather coats, long swords) on a "badass" sort of character. He also has some references to angels, which makes him more popular. I still say that Sephiroth is by far one of the worst villains I've encountered. He cannot match up with villains like Kane, SHODAN, Dr. Wily, or, to stay in RPGs, Loki, Zio, Ganondorf or Saya.


- You'll never get an epic storyline like this one. So many twists is aweshum <3

Uh...? Evil man tries to destroy the world with the lifeforce of the planet, because he is confused about his purpose. Wow. What an epic plot. Ever played Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Trigger or Namco x Capcom? THOSE are epic JRPG plots.


- The Materia System and the battle systems are all great. Much better than the ones that are around in the recent FF games, except for FFX. =D

You really should try playing other RPGs other than Final Fantasy. Preferably RPGs not done by Square-enix.


- The game, even when your finished it fully, is telling you to play it again and again <3

I don't remember the box saying "Sherlock! Play me! PLAY ME!!!". Yes, I played even the bonus stuff and got me the KotR, beat the Weapons and all that jazz, but only because I'm a completionist whore. I've played it once. I've started it a second time and stopped at the flashback in Niflheim, because I was bored to death already.



These are just four of the many reasons it's not overrated.
I have a friend who HATES FF7, and I don't get why.
He can't bring up any legit reasons for hating it. He just does. And that's just silleh...>_>

Ever heard of something like "personal taste"? You maybe don't like a style of music. Saying someone's silly because he doesn't share the same interests and tastes as you is just as silly, if not even sillier. It'd be boring if everyone on this planet would have the same taste, right?

Fact is:
FF7 was an okay game in the time it came out. Nowadays the orgasmic fanboy/girlism on this game makes it overrated. It's NOT the greatest game, RPG or even Final Fantasy of all time.

It is, though.
Based on what?



Personal opinion, no fact. Also, Sephiroth is not a bad guy, he's just a combination of what many people find appealing (long silver hair, long leather coats, long swords) on a "badass" sort of character. He also has some references to angels, which makes him more popular. I still say that Sephiroth is by far one of the worst villains I've encountered. He cannot match up with villains like Kane, SHODAN, Dr. Wily, or, to stay in RPGs, Loki, Zio, Ganondorf or Saya.
Funny how you shoot down her argument with "it's just personal opinion" and try to base your own opinion as fact. Not to mention you're speculating out your ass.



Uh...? Evil man tries to destroy the world with the lifeforce of the planet, because he is confused about his purpose. Wow. What an epic plot. Ever played Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Trigger or Namco x Capcom? THOSE are epic JRPG plots.
Norse Mythology and Time Traveling are not epic nor original.



You really should try playing other RPGs other than Final Fantasy. Preferably RPGs not done by Square-enix.
Says the one who JUST stated CHRONO TRIGGER as an epic JRPG. The battle systems are the same ATB bullshit.



I don't remember the box saying "Sherlock! Play me! PLAY ME!!!". Yes, I played even the bonus stuff and got me the KotR, beat the Weapons and all that jazz, but only because I'm a completionist whore. I've played it once. I've started it a second time and stopped at the flashback in Niflheim, because I was bored to death already.
Sounds like a personal problem to me, not one of the game's fault.



Ever heard of something like "personal taste"? You maybe don't like a style of music. Saying someone's silly because he doesn't share the same interests and tastes as you is just as silly, if not even sillier. It'd be boring if everyone on this planet would have the same taste, right?
Yet, here you are ridiculing her for picking VII as her favorite because you don't agree.



FactOpinion is:
FF7 was an okay game in the time it came out. Nowadays the orgasmic fanboy/girlism on this game makes it overrated. It's NOT the greatest game, RPG or even Final Fantasy of all time.

Learn English, there's a radical difference between opinion and fact. Plus, way to be blatantly obvious. No single game can claim the title of "Greatest game/RPG" because you can't make a title based on opinion into fact.


inb4someonebesidesSherlocktriestocounterarguebecau seitalwayshappenshiHynadandAllSeeingEye.

I-You'll never...EVER get a bad guy like Sephiroth no matter how hard they try with Seymour in 10, and others.


You're right. You could just step up and find a far more creative bad guy, which many of exist.

Based on what?

On what are you basing your argument, FF7 would not be overrated?


Funny how you shoot down her argument with "it's just personal opinion" and try to base your own opinion as fact. Not to mention you're speculating out your ass.

That's what you always say against me.
Oh, and I used the same argument as she does.


Norse Mythology and Time Traveling are not epic nor original.

Still better than the FF7 scenario.


Says the one who JUST stated CHRONO TRIGGER as an epic JRPG. The battle systems are the same ATB bullshit.

The battle system does NOT have to do anything with the story.


Sounds like a personal problem to me, not one of the game's fault.

Odd, because I've played through many games more than once, only FF7 disgusts me.


Yet, here you are ridiculing her for picking VII as her favorite because you don't agree.

Again: I'm using her own argument against her. Calling someone stupid because of not agreeing in my personal taste is even more stupid.


Plus, way to be blatantly obvious. No single game can claim the title of "Greatest game/RPG" because you can't make a title based on opinion into fact.

Hence I said it.

On what are you basing your argument, FF7 would not be overrated?
Huh? This sentence makes no sense.



That's what you always say against me.
Oh, and I used the same argument as she does.
Because that's what you always do.
So to prove a point, you do it in the least effective way possible?



Still better than the FF7 scenario.
Opinion~



The battle system does NOT have to do anything with the story.
Fair enough, but most RPGs essentially have the same battle systems.



Odd, because I've played through many games more than once, only FF7 disgusts me.
Only FFVII disgusts you? You're really trying hard to prove that you hate it, huh?



Again: I'm using her own argument against her. Calling someone stupid because of not agreeing in my personal taste is even more stupid.
Really? Because you're coming off as a "gaming elitist" and you're trying to persuade her to not like FFVII.



Hence I said it.
Huh? You said an opinon preceded by "Fact is:" for what reason? To look like a moron? You succeeded!

Right.

Look, how about a compromise? I start ignoring you trying everything to piss me off about this matter, and you... uhm... I dunno.

Funny how you shoot down her argument with "it's just personal opinion" and try to base your own opinion as fact. Not to mention you're speculating out your ass.

Norse Mythology and Time Traveling are not epic nor original.

Erm. I just joined to say you've gained a fangirl. :squee:

VII a mon avis had a brilliant storyline, and the break away from the whole magical mystical knights theme was refreshing (pioneer in that respect?). This said, the whole technology theme was done, probably much better, in VIII. And VII's story ripped a LOT from Akira.

I still maintain that it had the best musical score out of any game, erm, ever. Utilising only MIDI, thats an achievement.

VIII has a better OST than VII. Fact.


I find it hilarious that Sherlock called Person who is irritating because all her posts seem to be in stupid font and colors TwighlightYuna out, saying that what she had posted was personal opinion, only to then counter the argument with..yes you guessed it..personal opinion.

But it's almost impossible to prove a game is bad. You can come up with stats to support your claim. And tear the game apart. But at the end of the day, what a person thinks about a game is always going to come down to personal opinion.

Anyone see where I tried to be smart and funny in this post?

As I already stated: I used her own weapon against her.

Edit:
Oh, and FF7 has probably the worst soundtrack out of Uematsu's hand. Seriously. I can count the good tunes on one hand. That's pretty bad for such a huge soundtrack.

VIII has a better OST than VII. Fact.

FF7 has probably the worst soundtrack out of Uematsu's hand. Seriously. I can count the good tunes on one hand. That's pretty bad for such a huge soundtrack.

VIII has a better OST than VII. Fact.

lol'd

You're on a roll today.

While I tend to agree with the claim that FF VIII have a better soundtrack than VII, the main thing that it has going for it is a better sound sampling.


Sound quality for FF VII's soundtrack is quite poor. Just take the wind instruments like the flute that sounded even better in VI on the SNES. I'm not even touching the strings here.

But the composition wasn't that bad at all.

Only music I liked was "still more fighting".

Fuck one winged angel, fuck it and it's overated ass to hell.

While I tend to agree with the claim that FF VIII have a better soundtrack than VII, the main thing that it has going for it is a better sound sampling.


Sound quality for FF VII's soundtrack is quite poor. Just take the wind instruments like the flute that sounded even better in VI on the SNES. I'm not even touching the strings here.

But the composition wasn't that bad at all.

Personally, all of the 32-bit Final Fantasy's had poor sound sampling, compared to the other soundtracks for games under Square IMO. Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Vagrant Story and others had good quality sound sampling.

And while I partly agree with you on the composition, FFVIII and FFIX had better compositions, which equals better soundtracks than FFVII.

IX has the best soundtrack. Srs.

I disagree seriously about the quality of FFVII's soundtrack. Yes, One-Winged Angel is pretty stupid, but the main theme is good, the battle music is good, a lot of the music that isn't really appreciated enough is pretty good, like the music from the crater (second time).

When you discuss the quality of the soundtrack, though, you're gonna have a tough time coming up with anything that isn't related to personal preference in a critique.

I wouldn't call FFVII's soundtrack bad at all. It certainly was NOT "Uematsu's worst". But to say it's better than FFVIII's OST, is a joke. And I'm not even biased towards VIII either, seeing as I think the OST was one of the few good things about that game.

For the record though, I dislike the overrated tracks now such as One Winged Angel and Aeris' Theme. FFVII has a lot more overlooked tracks that I would maybe compare with VIII's OST, but certainly not those "big" two or Still More Fighting.

Doesn't matter how many times I hear fanboys (and fangirls) rave on about this game, my opinion still remains the same.

Yes, Final Fantasy VII is overrated. It was okay for it's time and made Square a shitload of money.

Now move on to next gen before I kneecap you kthx.

Ok i gotta ask...Are you a black man or do you play one on FFShrine?

Crysta

Ok i gotta ask...Are you a black man or do you play one on FFShrine?

Crysta

Ok I gotta ask... Are you a moron or do you play one on FFShrine?

We all know what the answer is in your case. ^_-

I play one on FFShrine, dur.

Stupid presumptuous Canadians.

I wouldn't call FFVII's soundtrack bad at all. It certainly was NOT "Uematsu's worst". But to say it's better than FFVIII's OST, is a joke. And I'm not even biased towards VIII either, seeing as I think the OST was one of the few good things about that game.

Would you care to back up that claim with substantial evidence? I liked FFVIII's soundtrack, but I thought FFVII's was better. Yeah, the midi quality was better in VIII, but I thought the overall composition was better in VII. I suggest that our opinions are based on differences of personal preference; if you care to claim otherwise, you are expected to prove it.


For the record though, I dislike the overrated tracks now such as One Winged Angel and Aeris' Theme. FFVII has a lot more overlooked tracks that I would maybe compare with VIII's OST, but certainly not those "big" two or Still More Fighting.

True, although I would argue that the overratedness is just spillover from the rabidness of many of FFVII's fans.

Would you care to back up that claim with substantial evidence? I liked FFVIII's soundtrack, but I thought FFVII's was better. Yeah, the midi quality was better in VIII, but I thought the overall composition was better in VII. I suggest that our opinions are based on differences of personal preference; if you care to claim otherwise, you are expected to prove it.



True, although I would argue that the overratedness is just spillover from the rabidness of many of FFVII's fans.

Okay, here we go. I can do that, prepare for a mouthful. Since I can't just say "I like this song" and sound like a rabid fanboy, I'll use youtube so I can talk about certain PARTS of certain songs so I can actually back up why this OST is awesome. So bear with me.


-One big thing is I think the FFVIII tracks have longer loops before they start repeating than those on the VII OST, so they probably have a potential to last longer before they get repetitive. There are also a lot more tracks that start with an "intro" that's only played for the first loop and never again. FFVIII's soundtrack tends to have a lot of such introes.

-I've tried to figure out what it is about it, but now I think I know why I love it so much. FFVIII's soundtrack uses a lot of chromatics patterns. If you don't know what that means look it up, but basically a lot of stuff with half notes, and I love anything with that. It would be hard to talk about certain parts of certain songs in just typing. But for instance "Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec", I can't think of a single song on the FFVII soundtrack which I like better than that. As far as Chromatics go on that... well, here, I'll use youtube to talk about certain aspects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kjkanvutvk
0:33-35, those four notes I think pretty much sum up the feel I get from a lot of the songs on VIII's OST.
Also, the whole part from 0:42 to 0:59 is what I mean by the chromatics, as well as other parts in the rest of the song. I can't think of anything on the FFVII soundtrack that gives me a similar feel. Except maybe "The Forested Temple". That's high on my list on the VII soundtrack, but it's no comparison to Fithos or any of it's variations, ESPECIALLY "A Sacrifice", I believe is my favorite variation.
I did mention that my favorite (or second favorite) song on the OST is in fact oddly "Residents", I know that's a bad example since a lot of people don't like it, but I figured since I'm talking about why I like the OST it might as well get a mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYXCVOClQig
Okay, the song pretty much fucks with chromatics in every way possible which is good for me, hell every note is two half notes together, normally they sound like a rusty instrument when you play two half notes at once, but this makes it good. Sounds mysterious and creepy But... 1:09. 'Nuff said.
A lot of other songs on the OST use an awesome set of chromatics.
Also, Premonition! BATTLE theme with chromatics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUu2olqwZ8s 2:10 FTW. Seriously. I don't believe ANY of the battle themes from FFVII have ANYTHING that sounds remotely like or better than that part.

-Some of these are more musically sound. I'm sorry, I'm a bit tired to back that up, but about Ami. It's got a lot of variations including Balamb Garden which has chromatics as well and a lot of key changes. I'd figure that considering the style of the Ami tracks and how they're used, I'd figure if there's anything to compare them to from VII, it's Aeris' Theme. I find the core Ami tune better than Aeris' Theme, sorry. I don't know if you agree or not, but to me it's a no-brainer, unless you don't think its a fair comparison.
Also, "Truth" very beautiful song, in case you don't know the OST inside out, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAvz7F67oRE&feature=related Are you sure you don't like this OST? :P

-Find Your Way > Chasing the Black Caped Man, it's FFVII counterpart.

-This is sort of like the chromatic arguement, but songs that use fancy instruments and have weird introes are good. Hi "Silence and Motion"! I also like how it changes tone at... one sec... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSJbuBG6j0U ...Aha. 1:48.

-Dance With the Balamb Fish and Waltz For the Moon.... 'nuff said.

-THE CASTLE. NOTHING on FFVII is better than that. Has everything from chromatics, to harmony, to change of key... I could spend a whole few paragraphs on that track alone pointing out random intervals from it's youtube, but I'll save the time. Name something on the FFVII soundtrack you like better than that.

-The Landing is another track I find hard to compare with any FFVII track. Maybe if any "Weapon Raid" another one high on my list. But the loop of Weapon Raid is way too short, and it gets repetitive fast.

-Chase themes. FFVII has "Hurry" and "Hurry Faster" which are alright. FFVIII has two chase themes as well, "Only a Plank Between One and Perdition", which I believe owns the socks off both of those. But to be fair, "Never Look Back" the other one, fails to deliver as much as the VII ones, not gonna lie.

-Okay, let's talk about battle music! Okay, I'll say that "Don't Be Afraid" and "Fighting" are pretty even in terms of what they are, but I found myself getting sick of Fighting much faster. But "Force Your Way" is a LOT better than "Still More Fighting" IMO. The Black Mages did a much better rendition of that than SMF as well. As for "special" battle themes... well, I already talked about Premonition, but let's go for the end ones! While I couldn't really care less for "Maybe I'm a Lion" (it's still epic enough, just not compared to the other 2 so I won't talk about it) though, the other two are something. "The Legendary Beast", it's got an awesome intro, no denying that. It's the one that plays during the first battle with Griever, and starts when he uses Shockwave Pulsar. I find that clever and perfectly timed! The rest of the track itself is decent, I'd say right on par with "The Birth of a God" from FFVII, to be fair.
But... The Extreme... wow. I could probably say a lot more about it than I will here now, but here we go. Here's it's youtube cause I'll be referencing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVkcmx2l3WA
So the beginning sounds like not much of a battle theme, it actually sounds like "The Nightmare Begins"! So let's see...
1:23, changes to a more serious diminished tone... just before it picks up and begins sounding like a normal battle theme (the slow part is just the "intro" for the first loop, but that's alright). It's probably my favorite battle theme in the history of FF, not just cause of how it starts slow and picks up.
There's other stuff after it picks up... but aside from the initial catchy tune, there's one particular aspect of it I can't get over. While the fast paced battle theme with the base sounds a lot like "The Birth of God", it completely owns the crap out of "The Birth of God" at 3:25. Managing to go to a more calm tone, and still keep the beat. Goosebumps++

But I will give FFVII credit where it deserves. As far as counterparts go, I did like FFVII's airship theme far better. And same with the map theme, no question at all. I think that's a given. Blue Fields... ick.

Okay... I'm done. For now. Whew!

Would you care to back up that claim with substantial evidence? I liked FFVIII's soundtrack, but I thought FFVII's was better. Yeah, the midi quality was better in VIII, but I thought the overall composition was better in VII. I suggest that our opinions are based on differences of personal preference; if you care to claim otherwise, you are expected to prove it.



True, although I would argue that the overratedness is just spillover from the rabidness of many of FFVII's fans.

Name an FF soundtrack with a song that went to number 1 in Japan?


Here's a hint, it didn't eat 9.

There's not really a way to prove that one is better than an other.

It's like saying who was better? Bach or Mozart?


Some have their own ways, criteria, to judge their stuff, but trying to prove something this trivial, like Zak is doing, is quite (sorry to be so blunt) pathetic.

Name an FF soundtrack with a song that went to number 1 in Japan?


Here's a hint, it didn't eat 9.

NICE FALLACY, DICKWEED.

There's not really a way to prove that one is better than an other.

It's like saying who was better? Bach or Mozart?


Some have their own ways, criteria, to judge their stuff, but trying to prove something this trivial, like Zak is doing, is quite (sorry to be so blunt) pathetic.

Well, I'm sorry if long posts are too deep for someone with an attention span such as yourself, but if you notice, Thieves asked me why I like it, I answered. Generally I agree with you about comparing Bach and Mozart, but I was not trying to "prove" it's better (even though the idea of it not being is a ridiculous joke), but I was saying why I prefer it, as Thieves asked.

L2READ.

But really, people actually do bother trying to prove stuff like that all the time, but I guess I can understand a lot being surprised that I actually answered the question. But those who are surprised about that, I'm probably equally surprised as them that people actually can like the FFVII soundtrack better than that of VIII.

But whatever, say what you want, it's Thieves's reply I'm looking forward to.

But whatever, say what you want, it's Thieves's reply I'm looking forward to.

I can easily provide that!


Okay, here we go. I can do that, prepare for a mou(interrupted by massive, godly flatulence.)

Okay... I'm done. For now. Whew!

Who told you I didn't read all of your shit?

I did, and there was absolutely nothing deep in it whatsoever. Your claim of the opposite is quite laughable considering you expose your big meaningless ego as if you feel coming up with a basic musical term (i.e Chormatics) should make you proud of yourself and expecting no one else know better..


You just said something on the line of : " I like FF VIII's music more because it uses more accelerando", "more themes have ternary", or "because most of them use Nebenstimme".

All of this could describe almost any game music ever created. It doesn't add anything to your argument. You could have wasted a lot less of your worthless time by cutting the "feeling proud of yourself" part and saying : "I like it better because it sounds better to my proud ears". We wouldn't have cared much more, but at least you wouldn't have demonstrated how poorly justified your ego is.

FF VIII's ost is quite varied in style, but for the most part, everything is in pastorale mode.

You fail to realize that Uematsu uses chromatics in most of the OSTs he creates and more so, in fact, in FF VII ( just a lead to what I'm talking about, which happens to be the best example: JENOVA).

You tried to look intelligent by throwing a basic musical term in the mix, but seriously, you didn't sound any different than if you said "I like this song because I think it's good".


Tell me again, where was the deep part from your stupid noob elaboration?

Okay, name five songs from FFVII that do it. I can only think of a total of two. And I was not trying to look 'intelligent' by saying that FFVII's soundtrack lacks in that, compared to VIII, which it does.

But you'll probably claim it's "not worth your time" to name them, as your way of covering up that you can't think of one.

Also what sort of answer would you have given to thieves' question? Some lameass one-line "I thought X was better", when at least I actually say why? I'm sorry Hynad, but that is very different than saying what, and your attempt to look intelligent by trying to claim that it's the same also fails. In fact, until you name some yourself I'll find it hard to take any of your posts on the subject seriously.

EDIT: And also I was talking about a lot more than chromatics! Again, L2READ!

EDIT2: Okay, you've edited since I replied, but your arguement doesn't make sense as to how it would have been the same if I said that.

Okay, here we go. I can do that, prepare for a mouthful. Since I can't just say "I like this song" and sound like a rabid fanboy, I'll use youtube so I can talk about certain PARTS of certain songs so I can actually back up why this OST is awesome. So bear with me.

Alright, since you whipped it out...


-One big thing is I think the FFVIII tracks have longer loops before they start repeating than those on the VII OST, so they probably have a potential to last longer before they get repetitive. There are also a lot more tracks that start with an "intro" that's only played for the first loop and never again. FFVIII's soundtrack tends to have a lot of such introes.

While this is true in some cases, what about, say, the world map themes? FFVII's is far longer than FFVIII's.


-I've tried to figure out what it is about it, but now I think I know why I love it so much. FFVIII's soundtrack uses a lot of chromatics patterns. If you don't know what that means look it up, but basically a lot of stuff with half notes, and I love anything with that.

I think you mean "half steps." And, being a music theory major, I do know a little bit about chromaticism. Here's a fun example of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWOQVPtIo_E

[QUOTE]
It would be hard to talk about certain parts of certain songs in just typing. But for instance "Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec", I can't think of a single song on the FFVII soundtrack which I like better than that. As far as Chromatics go on that... well, here, I'll use youtube to talk about certain aspects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kjkanvutvk
0:33-35, those four notes I think pretty much sum up the feel I get from a lot of the songs on VIII's OST.
Also, the whole part from 0:42 to 0:59 is what I mean by the chromatics, as well as other parts in the rest of the song. I can't think of anything on the FFVII soundtrack that gives me a similar feel. Except maybe "The Forested Temple".

That's the old standard 5-flat6-6-flat6 motion above a minor triad, perhaps most famously appearing in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM

As a matter of fact, "The Forested Temple" is the exact same chord progression. George Gershwin used it as well. What's superior in "Fithos" relative to "The Forested Temple," other than the midi quality? I like them each about the same.
[QUOTE]

I did mention that my favorite (or second favorite) song on the OST is in fact oddly "Residents", I know that's a bad example since a lot of people don't like it, but I figured since I'm talking about why I like the OST it might as well get a mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYXCVOClQig
Okay, the song pretty much fucks with chromatics in every way possible which is good for me, hell every note is two half notes together, normally they sound like a rusty instrument when you play two half notes at once, but this makes it good. Sounds mysterious and creepy But... 1:09. 'Nuff said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqvNfm4DkaE

Here the ostinato (repeated) pattern at the beginning? It's the same thing, you're talking about, only it's not as jazzy. Uematsu reuses a lot of ideas in his game scores. I like "The Residents" as well, but I don't think that's quite grounds for saying that FFVIII has a better soundtrack than FFVII.


A lot of other songs on the OST use an awesome set of chromatics.
Also, Premonition! BATTLE theme with chromatics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUu2olqwZ8s 2:10 FTW. Seriously. I don't believe ANY of the battle themes from FFVII have ANYTHING that sounds remotely like or better than that part.

I like the intro, which is mostly diatonic (within the key, also "not chromatic"), as a matter of fact. The chromaticism in the part you're referring to is mostly passing (not part of the chord). I like the way it sounds, too, but what about, the nice little common-tone augmented sixth chord in "JENOVA" about 6 seconds into it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KXiVBA7svc


-Some of these are more musically sound. I'm sorry, I'm a bit tired to back that up, but about Ami. It's got a lot of variations including Balamb Garden which has chromatics as well and a lot of key changes. I'd figure that considering the style of the Ami tracks and how they're used, I'd figure if there's anything to compare them to from VII, it's Aeris' Theme. I find the core Ami tune better than Aeris' Theme, sorry. I don't know if you agree or not, but to me it's a no-brainer, unless you don't think its a fair comparison.
Also, "Truth" very beautiful song, in case you don't know the OST inside out, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAvz7F67oRE&feature=related Are you sure you don't like this OST? :P


I think it would be more fair to compare it to the "Main Theme" from FFVII, which I prefer to the Ami theme. For instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IggYc_eaq5g

I like the simplicity, with a few mode mixture chords thrown in like the minor subdominant, as well as the chromatic submediant paired with the flat 7 dominant substitute. They appear at the ends of phrases.


-Find Your Way > Chasing the Black Caped Man, it's FFVII counterpart.

I disagree here. The two pieces are meant to convey very different things; FYW has sort of a melancholy, sad sound to it, because the general tone of the game reflects the tragedy of wars. CTBCM, on the other hand, conveys more of a sense that there's something supernatural going on, and that things aren't quite what they seem with the game in general, which is more of what FFVII's plot is based on. I like each for what it's supposed to be, pretty equally.


-This is sort of like the chromatic arguement, but songs that use fancy instruments and have weird introes are good. Hi "Silence and Motion"! I also like how it changes tone at... one sec... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSJbuBG6j0U ...Aha. 1:48.

I think the weird noises are a little bit overdone in this piece, but I like it rather a lot. Its repetitiveness gets a little irritating, though, because Esthar is way too big. That's not really something wrong with the score, though.


-Dance With the Balamb Fish and Waltz For the Moon.... 'nuff said.

Yeah, these tracks are good, but I don't think they're spectacularly good.


-THE CASTLE. NOTHING on FFVII is better than that. Has everything from chromatics, to harmony, to change of key... I could spend a whole few paragraphs on that track alone pointing out random intervals from it's youtube, but I'll save the time. Name something on the FFVII soundtrack you like better than that.

Ah, an Uematsu homage to J.S. Bach. I've gotta post this before I go on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4GDsKwAeUk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIiU2-JyqsE

I am a huge fan of pipe organ music. Listen to this stuff.

Anyway, here's a good example of a track I rather like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrUApl5I8iY&feature=related

I think the composition is just as good, but again, "The Castle" benefits from much better midi quality. Now, I'll grant you this that an homage to baroque music is destined to be awesome; there isn't a good opportunity to do that.


-The Landing is another track I find hard to compare with any FFVII track. Maybe if any "Weapon Raid" another one high on my list. But the loop of Weapon Raid is way too short, and it gets repetitive fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHm-jb4FqyA&feature=related (after the intro)
I find this to be a better comparison to "The Landing" although I don't think it's quite as good. Doesn't exactly prove that one game's OST is better than the other, though.




-Chase themes. FFVII has "Hurry" and "Hurry Faster" which are alright. FFVIII has two chase themes as well, "Only a Plank Between One and Perdition", which I believe owns the socks off both of those. But to be fair, "Never Look Back" the other one, fails to deliver as much as the VII ones, not gonna lie.


Gonna have to disagree here. "Only a Plank," to me, sounds cool the first two times through, but after that it just gets annoying to me. Especially when you have to climb to the top of the D District Prison.


-Okay, let's talk about battle music! Okay, I'll say that "Don't Be Afraid" and "Fighting" are pretty even in terms of what they are, but I found myself getting sick of Fighting much faster.

It's exactly the opposite for me. I have fought a lot more battles to "Fighting" and I still haven't gotten sick of it. You unfortunately forgot to mention "The Man With the Machine Gun," which blows both of these two out of the water in my opinion. Pity it doesn't get used enough.


But "Force Your Way" is a LOT better than "Still More Fighting" IMO. The Black Mages did a much better rendition of that than SMF as well.

Agree with you here.


As for "special" battle themes... well, I already talked about Premonition, but let's go for the end ones! While I couldn't really care less for "Maybe I'm a Lion" (it's still epic enough, just not compared to the other 2 so I won't talk about it) though, the other two are something. "The Legendary Beast", it's got an awesome intro, no denying that. It's the one that plays during the first battle with Griever, and starts when he uses Shockwave Pulsar. I find that clever and perfectly timed! The rest of the track itself is decent, I'd say right on par with "The Birth of a God" from FFVII, to be fair.

To be honest, my party was too powerful at this point, so I didn't hear this track for very long.


But... The Extreme... wow. I could probably say a lot more about it than I will here now, but here we go. Here's it's youtube cause I'll be referencing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVkcmx2l3WA
So the beginning sounds like not much of a battle theme, it actually sounds like "The Nightmare Begins"! So let's see...

Let's not neglect just how good of a track "The Nightmare Begins" is. That was one of my favorites from FFVII.


1:23, changes to a more serious diminished tone...

Disagree about it getting more serious here; just tonicizes the dominant to build up to the end of the intro.


just before it picks up and begins sounding like a normal battle theme

Makes me feel like I'm about to fight some GrOgres.


(the slow part is just the "intro" for the first loop, but that's alright). It's probably my favorite battle theme in the history of FF, not just cause of how it starts slow and picks up.

Here are my two favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jzh0BThaaU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=585IUvyDkZo



There's other stuff after it picks up... but aside from the initial catchy tune, there's one particular aspect of it I can't get over. While the fast paced battle theme with the base sounds a lot like "The Birth of God", it completely owns the crap out of "The Birth of God" at 3:25. Managing to go to a more calm tone, and still keep the beat. Goosebumps++

It's good, and certainly better than "One Winged Angel," but I still liked FFVII's overall soundtrack better.


But I will give FFVII credit where it deserves. As far as counterparts go, I did like FFVII's airship theme far better. And same with the map theme, no question at all. I think that's a given. Blue Fields... ick.

Definitely agree here.


Okay... I'm done. For now. Whew!

In the end, though, it still seems to come down to personal preference, especially because they're so similar in style (a common effect of being composed by the same guy). Now...



I did, and there was absolutely nothing deep in it whatsoever. Your claim of the opposite is quite laughable considering you expose your big meaningless ego as if you feel coming up with a basic musical term (i.e Chormatics) should make you proud of yourself and expecting no one else know better..

I'm one of the biggest musical snobs I know, and I'M appalled at this level of condescension. So he didn't go to music school and learn the music theory behind what he likes in music. If you need to belittle somebody who's been too busy with the rest of his life to learn the finer points of music to feed your own sense of musicianship, then you're probably one of those douchebags that can't perform on his instrument.

Seriously though, you don't need to be so abrasive.


You just said something on the line of : " I like FF VIII's music more because it uses more accelerando", "more themes have ternary", or "because most of them use Nebenstimme".

Nebenstimme? What, would it have Sprechstimme in there?


All of this could describe almost any game music ever created. It doesn't add anything to your argument. You could have wasted a lot less of your worthless time by cutting the "feeling proud of yourself" part and saying : "I like it better because it sounds better to my proud ears". We wouldn't have cared much more, but at least you wouldn't have demonstrated how poorly justified your ego is.

He wants to discuss details of music. Rather than just sitting there and "being better than he is," why don't you try to make connections and demonstrate what about the music creates the affects he's describing?


FF VIII's ost is quite varied in style, but for the most part, everything is in pastorale mode.

Like all the techno-sounding music in it? This comment makes no sense.


You fail to realize that Uematsu uses chromatics in most of the OSTs he creates and more so, in fact, in FF VII ( just a lead to what I'm talking about, which happens to be the best example: JENOVA).

Would sound a lot more like a legitimate point if you didn't feel the need to begin with "you fail." Just makes you sound like a pompous ass.


You tried to look intelligent by throwing a basic musical term in the mix, but seriously, you didn't sound any different than if you said "I like this song because I think it's good".

And what are you doing by demeaning him?


Tell me again, where was the deep part from your stupid noob elaboration?

He at least tried to describe the moods in the music that he liked. Maybe he just likes the music from FFVIII and wanted to discuss its merits? Oh, he doesn't know the terminology that describes 19th century compositional styles, so he isn't worth talking to. Back the hell off and leave this discussion unless you want to offer something substantive rather than bash someone for his horrendous crimes of ignorance.

Edit: Props to Swami for the flatulent interruption.

Well that was educational.

If you let me, I will go on about music theory for hours.

And flatulence!

Alright, since you whipped it out...


While this is true in some cases, what about, say, the world map themes? FFVII's is far longer than FFVIII's.



/points to bottom of post.





I think you mean "half steps." And, being a music theory major, I do know a little bit about chromaticism. Here's a fun example of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWOQVPtIo_E



Half steps! Yeah, that's the word I was looking for, and yeah that example is pretty much what I mean.




That's the old standard 5-flat6-6-flat6 motion above a minor triad, perhaps most famously appearing in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM

As a matter of fact, "The Forested Temple" is the exact same chord progression. George Gershwin used it as well. What's superior in "Fithos" relative to "The Forested Temple," other than the midi quality? I like them each about the same.


The midi quality yes, but while the progression is similar, Fithos has other parts as well than the one I described, like a drastic change of key, and the loop is almost twice as long as that of The Forested Temple, so to me it's a little superior.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqvNfm4DkaE

Here the ostinato (repeated) pattern at the beginning? It's the same thing, you're talking about, only it's not as jazzy. Uematsu reuses a lot of ideas in his game scores. I like "The Residents" as well, but I don't think that's quite grounds for saying that FFVIII has a better soundtrack than FFVII.


Holy shit, I complete forgot about Honeybee Inn, you're right, it does use that. I should add that to my repertoire when I get a chance. It's good, and does feel like a lot of the FFVIII tracks... but I prefer Residents.


I like the intro, which is mostly diatonic (within the key, also "not chromatic"), as a matter of fact. The chromaticism in the part you're referring to is mostly passing (not part of the chord). I like the way it sounds, too, but what about, the nice little common-tone augmented sixth chord in "JENOVA" about 6 seconds into it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KXiVBA7svc


Augmented chords are indeed a plus. But yeah, perhaps it was the wrong choice of words. In Premonition the part I was talking about involves a drastic change of key as well. I know exactly where you're referring to in JENOVA after the beginning repeats four times, and yeah. Also while it does have a short loop it's got one of the best end of a loop out there as well.


I think it would be more fair to compare it to the "Main Theme" from FFVII, which I prefer to the Ami theme. For instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IggYc_eaq5g

I like the simplicity, with a few mode mixture chords thrown in like the minor subdominant, as well as the chromatic submediant paired with the flat 7 dominant substitute. They appear at the ends of phrases.

First of all that is actually "Holding My Thoughts in My Heart". It's definitely more competition for the Ami theme. I guess you're right in saying that it would be more fair to compare them, because out of those two it's hard to choose.




I disagree here. The two pieces are meant to convey very different things; FYW has sort of a melancholy, sad sound to it, because the general tone of the game reflects the tragedy of wars. CTBCM, on the other hand, conveys more of a sense that there's something supernatural going on, and that things aren't quite what they seem with the game in general, which is more of what FFVII's plot is based on. I like each for what it's supposed to be, pretty equally.


They're both the game's cave/forest themes, that's why I compared them. I guess that's an interesting way of looking at it.


I think the weird noises are a little bit overdone in this piece, but I like it rather a lot. Its repetitiveness gets a little irritating, though, because Esthar is way too big. That's not really something wrong with the score, though.

You know that after the invasion, it never plays in Esthar ever again for the rest of the game, it's replaced by "Only a Plank" or something. You only really hear it once, the first time you're visiting Esthar, so it's not like it outdoes itself. After that, the only place you'll hear it again is in Laguna's office.



Yeah, these tracks are good, but I don't think they're spectacularly good.

I pointed them out because there isn't really anything on VII I can really compare it too... it's it's own Uematsu-genre.



Ah, an Uematsu homage to J.S. Bach. I've gotta post this before I go on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4GDsKwAeUk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIiU2-JyqsE

I am a huge fan of pipe organ music. Listen to this stuff.

Anyway, here's a good example of a track I rather like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrUApl5I8iY&feature=related

I think the composition is just as good, but again, "The Castle" benefits from much better midi quality. Now, I'll grant you this that an homage to baroque music is destined to be awesome; there isn't a good opportunity to do that.


There we go... I wasn't sure if it actually was an homage or just a coincidence, but I was playing on my iPod the piano collection version of this and my roommate thought it was Bach, go figure.

Also I'm listening to the links you posted right now, good shit. But speaking of pipe organ music, just a random question, I know it's a shitty example but what is your opinion on "Heresy"?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHm-jb4FqyA&feature=related (after the intro)
I find this to be a better comparison to "The Landing" although I don't think it's quite as good. Doesn't exactly prove that one game's OST is better than the other, though.


Ah, I forgot about O-BM. That's one of my favorites on VII as well and you're actually right that it's more comparable. But of course no song ALONE proves that an OST is better. But yes it's still no "Landing".


Gonna have to disagree here. "Only a Plank," to me, sounds cool the first two times through, but after that it just gets annoying to me. Especially when you have to climb to the top of the D District Prison.

Well, "Hurry" is barely anything, but "Hurry Faster" may be comparable but I have the same problem with it as the one you described above. Got sick of it when spending hours in the Gold Saucer Arena, so I guess it's the same reason as you. But I enjoyed having "Only a Plank" as the battle music when fighting Ultima Weapon.


It's exactly the opposite for me. I have fought a lot more battles to "Fighting" and I still haven't gotten sick of it.

Well, that's something... no comment there.


You unfortunately forgot to mention "The Man With the Machine Gun," which blows both of these two out of the water in my opinion. Pity it doesn't get used enough.

Wow, I didn't mention it?! I know I was thinking about it while making the post before I'd gotten to the subject of battle music, I guess it went over my head by the time I reached it.



To be honest, my party was too powerful at this point, so I didn't hear this track for very long.

Well, have a listen then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe45YhKQEQU I'd recommend giving the entire loop a chance, tell me what you think, I'm curious. Loop ends at 3:24.
Mine was too, on both playthroughs. But on the second one I decided to pay close attention to the final battle music, so I prolonged the battle. About the party being to powerful, this has the same problem as FFX's "Decisive Battle". It's a phenomonal track, except it's only played when you're fighting Yu Yevon, just Yu Yevon, not even the summons, it only starts playing after the aeons are all defeated, and the whole loop for it isn't even half over by the time the average person wins that battle, so it's very overlooked.


Let's not neglect just how good of a track "The Nightmare Begins" is. That was one of my favorites from FFVII.

Who's neglecting? I love The Nightmare Begins.


Disagree about it getting more serious here; just tonicizes the dominant to build up to the end of the intro.

That's actually a better way to describe it, building up to the end of the intro...


Makes me feel like I'm about to fight some GrOgres.

I'd have to know what those are to comment.



Here are my two favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jzh0BThaaU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=585IUvyDkZo

I actually haven't played any of the classics except for VI, though I do plan on it. So my favorite one is bound to change. I only played VI once, I start judging the OST usually on my second or third playthrough which I do plan on as well. Though I am familiar with some battle themes from some ones I have yet to play because I listened to them to see what the hype was about. Take "Clash on the Big Bridge" for instance, I have that on repeat now. All four versions of it (V, Black Mages, Piano Collections, and XII).



It's good, and certainly better than "One Winged Angel," but I still liked FFVII's overall soundtrack better.

k.


In the end, though, it still seems to come down to personal preference, especially because they're so similar in style (a common effect of being composed by the same guy). Now...

I guess it does, but this has been an interesting discussion. I actually have not even taken music theory yet, but I do plan to next semester and was even thinking of changing my major to it. I've just been playing an instrument for 10 years so all I know is what I picked up from that. But it's better than arguing with an average VII fanboy.



I'm one of the biggest musical snobs I know, and I'M appalled at this level of condescension. So he didn't go to music school and learn the music theory behind what he likes in music. If you need to belittle somebody who's been too busy with the rest of his life to learn the finer points of music to feed your own sense of musicianship, then you're probably one of those douchebags that can't perform on his instrument.

Seriously though, you don't need to be so abrasive.


That's just how he is, he probably just had a shitty day and was looking for someone to take it out on. If you've seen this guy's posts then you'd know that's most likely the case.


He wants to discuss details of music. Rather than just sitting there and "being better than he is," why don't you try to make connections and demonstrate what about the music creates the affects he's describing?

Haha I just asked him to do the same thing, but I guess after this post he'll probably be embarrassed to show his face in this thread. I wouldn't blame him, after displaying his idiocy for all to see. Too bad he can't delete his post in shame. :P Given those circumstances that's probably what I'd do in his place. Either way he must be feeling pretty stupid to see that you actually replied.




Edit: Props to Swami for the flatulent interruption.

Amen.

holy CRAP!

BTW, Thieves, do you play anything? just wondering.

Yeah, I'm a pianist. You have to play an instrument and take four years of lessons from a faculty member to be a music major.

Might I say something?
BOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGG!

Yeah, I'm a pianist. You have to play an instrument and take four years of lessons from a faculty member to be a music major.

As am I. Though I bet I could out-Uematsu (Thread 53670) you. Seriously though do you have a repertoire with that? Just wondering...

too many arguments! Quit ARGUING! OH MY GAWD!

too many arguments! Quit ARGUING! OH MY GAWD!

too many SPEDs! Quit POSTING! OH MY GAWD!

you are really starting to tick me off...and i am not in a good mood right now...

Not posting would be the best solution.

But I havent been on in WEEKS! and im making up for lost time....so its
like giving everyone a gift!

But I havent been on in WEEKS!

See? You already gave everyone the best gift anyone could ask of you!

As am I. Though I bet I could out-Uematsu (Thread 53670) you. Seriously though do you have a repertoire with that? Just wondering...

Well, the stuff I can play I mostly learned by ear. I arranged "Fighting" for an ensemble of saxophones back in high school, though. I usually just sit down and play something by ear when I want to or when I'm asked to; I don't really have an expansive repertoire.

That's usually me too, I learned a bunch of music from other games by ear alone as that's the only option, but once I discovered squareenixmusic.net i built up that expansive repertoire.

Music is good.
Gameplay is fun.
Mechanics were simple, but mastering them was a crapshoot.
Story was a bit confusing the first time around, but the second go made sense (kinda).
Characters were pretty good.
Development was weird, plus they forgot to put a little extra something for Cait Sith/Revee to give him more depth than "For the good of the residents of Midgar".

well, i WISH that they re-make this game so that there would be better
graphics and mechanics, ect..

Every time you make a wish, it gets granted in a horrible way that makes you regret it. Don't be careful what you wish for; just don't make any wishes.

well...this seems like a safe wish...for now...

OK. Seriously. How come the likes of seele and shotoken get banned. Yet DE GRANDE FREAK is free to do as he/she wishes?

DGF:

Stop bumping threads unless you're going to post something other than utter shit. I usually ignore people like you, and even if I do take notice, I'm not one to call them out. But it's getting tiresome. You're an idiot of the highest calibre. And everything you post could be deleted and nobody would give it a second thought.

Piss off. Or start posting something worth reading.

Edit* I was going to post this in all of the threads I'm referring to. But I figured you would check this thread before any of the others.

seele and shotoken were worse. dgf is sometimes alright, like he has a moment of clarity in between the stupidity. and he posts relatively sporadically. and seele and shotokens bans were temporary. and shotoken incessantly posted incomprehensible stuff in gd. seele posted macros everywhere. and dgf has been banned at least two times afaicr.

Erm, Duo. What the hell?! You're not supposed to see and respond to this. It's in the VII section!

Fair enough, I suppose you're right about him posting sporadically. It's just when he does, it's frustrating. But I see what you mean about him not being as bad as shotoken and seele.

DE GRANDE FREAK, if you're reading this. I may be wrong about the banning, but I still stand by this;

DGF:

Stop bumping threads unless you're going to post something other than utter shit. I usually ignore people like you, and even if I do take notice, I'm not one to call them out. But it's getting tiresome. You're an idiot of the highest calibre. And everything you post could be deleted and nobody would give it a second thought.

Piss off. Or start posting something worth reading.

Oh, I totally agree, I've rarely found anything of De Grande Freak's worth reading. Also, I've been monitoring this thread for a while and I think it's finally time for it to say buh-bye.