To be honest I never really got into VI and I think that it is over-rated among FF fans. I've heard people say that the characters are really good but when I was playing I never really cared about them. I'm not sure what it was but when I watched a scene that exactly what was happening, I was watching a scene. I wasn't getting immersed with the characters, I never knew what the characters were thinking or feeling and I never felt a part of the action. It's not just the characters that I think are over-rated though I think Kefka is even more so. Yeah, sure he changed the landscape of the world and was emperor for a while but he's not really that great, he still got killed and the world lived happily ever after etc. He was quite boring I thought.

It's a good game but not great.

So your attention whoring has extended far enough into the realm of the pathetic to make flame bait threads now?

lul

The VI that can be overrated is not the real VI.

I don't think Final Fantasy VI is overrated. I think the praise it gets is well deserved. Just because something is popular with many people, doesn't mean it's overrated. That's something a lot of people don't seem to understand.

Overrated? I wouldn’t say that. FFVI was the first FF to bind great story and great gameplay. The cast of characters was great too. A total of 14 characters and they still managed to treat them equally with personalities that made each one stand out and a great background behind them. FFVI dealt with more mature primary and secondary themes than previous FF – suicide, fear of discrimination for being different, pre-adult pregnancy, back-stabing, and a god knows how many other plus the inner conflict that has become a trademark in the series since 4(maybe 2 made an attempt on that but I don’t really remember). Still having some light-hearted moments, FFVI managed to be emotional without trying to be melodramatic. Everything was perfectly balanced. Even in battles there was balance. All characters were of equal strength despite the fact that they belonged to different classes. And to make it even better while each one had their unique abilities you could still develop them any way you wanted with the esper system. It also had a plethora of sidequests and things to do. And of course the cherry on the cake (or do you say the cherry on the pie here?) is none other than Kefka. While his personality is 2-dimensional he really does an impact on the game and the player. Maybe it’s that annoying laugh every time he does something cruel and makes you say –when I get my hands on you I’m gonna beat the hell out of you and when I’m done beating the hell out of you I’m gonna beat the hell out of you some more. I’d say Kefka is probably the best 2-dimensional villain ever (keep the 2-dimensional part out and then you have him overrated). Anyway, for all the above you have a wonderful game which of course like any other game is not without it’s flaws but let’s not bother with them right now.

Apparently the topic creator doesn't remember FFVII.

What does VII has to do with it? I think that neither VI nor VII are overrated.

So your attention whoring has extended far enough into the realm of the pathetic to make flame bait threads now?

My intention was to spark conversation and debate and not to flame bait.


Apparently the topic creator doesn't remember FFVII.

How is FFVII relevant to this thread?


Overrated? I wouldn�t say that. FFVI was the first FF to bind great story and great gameplay. The cast of characters was great too. A total of 14 characters and they still managed to treat them equally with personalities that made each one stand out and a great background behind them. FFVI dealt with more mature primary and secondary themes than previous FF � suicide, fear of discrimination for being different, pre-adult pregnancy, back-stabing, and a god knows how many other plus the inner conflict that has become a trademark in the series since 4(maybe 2 made an attempt on that but I don�t really remember). Still having some light-hearted moments, FFVI managed to be emotional without trying to be melodramatic. Everything was perfectly balanced. Even in battles there was balance. All characters were of equal strength despite the fact that they belonged to different classes. And to make it even better while each one had their unique abilities you could still develop them any way you wanted with the esper system. It also had a plethora of sidequests and things to do. And of course the cherry on the cake (or do you say the cherry on the pie here?) is none other than Kefka. While his personality is 2-dimensional he really does an impact on the game and the player. Maybe it�s that annoying laugh every time he does something cruel and makes you say �when I get my hands on you I�m gonna beat the hell out of you and when I�m done beating the hell out of you I�m gonna beat the hell out of you some more. I�d say Kefka is probably the best 2-dimensional villain ever (keep the 2-dimensional part out and then you have him overrated). Anyway, for all the above you have a wonderful game which of course like any other game is not without it�s flaws but let�s not bother with them right now.

That's basically the same way that my brother feels about the game except that he thinks that Kefka is one of the best villains in the FF series. The esper part I liked and having loads of playable characters was fun but I never got into it like I have done with other FF games.

I never found Kefka to be the amazing villain some people consider him to be. I mean, he is good and does the typical "I want to destroy the whole world" role nicely, but I personally found that ExDeath from FFV was better overall at playing that role. Yes, Kefka managed to put the world in ruins but ExDeath accomplished far more than that by merging the different worlds and sucking up entire cities into the void and like Kefka he too kills a lot of people. ExDeath was just pure evil and he was practically invincible. Where Kefka has the edge I think is that unlike ExDeath, he doesn't starts as a godlike villian but he is just a simple general of the empire and then rises to godlike status after the floating continent.

My intention was to spark conversation and debate


lul

I'm not even a fan of the FF series. FFVI is the 2nd FF game I've tried out, after FFVII, and it's already becoming one of my all-time favorite RPGs (currently playing it).

To be honest I never really got into VI and I think that it is over-rated among FF fans. I've heard people say that the characters are really good but when I was playing I never really cared about them. I'm not sure what it was but when I watched a scene that exactly what was happening, I was watching a scene. I wasn't getting immersed with the characters, I never knew what the characters were thinking or feeling and I never felt a part of the action. It's not just the characters that I think are over-rated though I think Kefka is even more so. Yeah, sure he changed the landscape of the world and was emperor for a while but he's not really that great, he still got killed and the world lived happily ever after etc. He was quite boring I thought.

It's a good game but not great.

So if I read it right you think the whole game's terribly overrated just 'cause you didn't like the characters?

Get out. :p

Allow me to hold your face under the pubescent waters of knowledge. Giving the fact that Final Fantasy VI is my winner for BEST GAME EVAR, and the fact most people outside of the internet view 7 the best of all time. I am not to sure what to say, but I don't think it's over-rated. Sure, it's not a game like Psychonauts which got ignored, and alot more people have played 6 than 5; but let me say this: It's not over-rated. Maybe for the era it was in, but surely not now, where people don't play old games any more, and would rather play pretentious crap like Alone in the Dark, or something piss poor like Clive Barker's Jericho. In short, I guess you could say that it is over-rated within the FF Community, but fuck them, it deserves the praise it gets and whoever doesn't give it the attention it deserves is a heartless bastards with no love for the shiny gems out there.

So if I read it right you think the whole game's terribly overrated just 'cause you didn't like the characters?

Get out. :p

Not just the characters, also the story. I never got pulled into it.

Allow me to hold your face under the pubescent waters of knowledge. Giving the fact that Final Fantasy VI is my winner for BEST GAME EVAR, and the fact most people outside of the internet view 7 the best of all time. I am not to sure what to say, but I don't think it's over-rated. Sure, it's not a game like Psychonauts which got ignored, and alot more people have played 6 than 5; but let me say this: It's not over-rated. Maybe for the era it was in, but surely not now, where people don't play old games any more, and would rather play pretentious crap like Alone in the Dark, or something piss poor like Clive Barker's Jericho. In short, I guess you could say that it is over-rated within the FF Community, but fuck them, it deserves the praise it gets and whoever doesn't give it the attention it deserves is a heartless bastards with no love for the shiny gems out there.

If you're going to rip off Yahtzee's lines, at least get it right (putrescent, not pubescent) and give credit where it's due.

Not just the characters, also the story. I never got pulled into it.

Well, you are hardly sparking conversation and debate in this way. You are unwilling to give specific examples of the things that you didn't like about the story and the characters.

This is Harkus being edgy: "I didn't like it!"

Well, perhaps I could help Harkus a bit in sparking conversation and debate.

I have been playing VI for the last couple of days and one of the things that always bothered me a bit about the game is that it starts to build up around how important Terra is due to her ability to use magic. The empire, Kefka, Banon and the returners all think she is the key to winning the war but no longer than 5 hours into the game...boom...we find out that everyone can use magic and in the blink of an eye Terra's importance vanishes. She is no longer special and suddenly someone like Gau can cast as much magic as her. It is like if the foundation that was being laid down by the game is destroyed.

Another issue is the WoR, I mean, the plot development basically stops there. Everything goes well right up to the floating continent but then any sort of plot stops in the WoR. This world can be summed up as: gather all your party, level up like mad in the dino island and go to Kefka. Compared to the WoB, it seriously lacks.

The Esper System is another issue...you can load any of your characters with all the magic you want without this having a negative impact on them and unlike the materia system on VII, where your characters must have the materia equiped even after they are mastered, in VI, you can pass over the esper to someone else and still retain the abilities you have learned. It seems rather unbalanced.

Flame away.

Only an issue with the second point. True, there's not much plot development at that point but there is a hell of a lot of character development in most cases. A full year later, we get to see how these characters have progressed on their own. I thought that was pretty neat.

Yes, I understand how the WoR is made up of a set of separate stories instead of a single one. I do like the character development that goes on there, and I love how the WoR starts, but I feel it just drags for too long and most of it is optional. I mean, you can do a Celes, Edgar and Setzer challange and finish the game with those three only.

I think that what the WoR lacks is something to tie together all the separate stories. Something that turns all the separate pieces into a coherent whole. It would have been nice if there was some sort of plot development that leads you to each of the chracters while at the same time it allows us to see their own personal struggles.

Well, point taken. I thought it worked well enough for what it was though.

As much as I enjoyed VI, I'm getting sick of seeing everyone splurge all over it.

The characters and how they managed with fifteen different battle personalities was awesome, I'll give them that. I always like when characters each have their own ways of learning skills, much like the limit breaks in VIII and X. In general it was a fun game to play and complete, but as for interesting parts I'd have to say the whole gathering the party thing had it for me. I really enjoyed that for some reason, how each of the fourteen had their own little challenge to get them back.

I only played the game once, and am looking to replay it, but as far as I remember it seemed almost impossible to get to keep Shadow without using a guide. Maybe not, but that's what I remember. Well, I guess they have to do that to one if there are fifteen.

But I really don't get the appeal of the story, basically for the same reasons as Egami said. So this empire wants to use this girl for malicious intents... I'm sorry, but even without the fact that everyone can use magic, I'd prefer even VIII's story to that which is hated by a lot for some reason.

The opera scene, sure that was phenomenal for a game as old as one of the classics, but if you look at it, the Sony FF generation had events and mini-games which live up to what VI's opera lived up to, if not more.

No video game is perfect. If you look closely enough, you'll always find something to nip pick at. Personally, I don't think Kefka was that great a villain. His laugh sound bit was what made him stand out, more so than any thing else. Still, as far as the game and set up goes, he was an appropriate villain. The game set up is like a theater performance, and Kefka was the evil mad clown of the game. Think Joker in Batman. I also like that the story didn't focus on one person, but on all the characters equally. The war torn world was the true main character.

The question in any form of medium is, does the pros out number the cons? Personally, I think FFVI has way more pros than cons.

In my opinion FFVI is far from over-rated.

I agree, no game is perfect and VI has it's flaws, but still, I don't feel these really detract from the game. I think the game is not overrated and deserves all the praise it has received. It sits as my second favorite FF, yet X has been growing on me a lot lately and may end up topping it. But all in all, VI is truly an epic and the ending is simply orgasmic.

Well, perhaps I could help Harkus a bit in sparking conversation and debate.

I have been playing VI for the last couple of days and one of the things that always bothered me a bit about the game is that it starts to build up around how important Terra is due to her ability to use magic. The empire, Kefka, Banon and the returners all think she is the key to winning the war but no longer than 5 hours into the game...boom...we find out that everyone can use magic and in the blink of an eye Terra's importance vanishes. She is no longer special and suddenly someone like Gau can cast as much magic as her. It is like if the foundation that was being laid down by the game is destroyed.

But don't you also figure out very early in the game that Terra isn't the only one who can use magic, 'cause of characters like Kefka and Celes?


Another issue is the WoR, I mean, the plot development basically stops there. Everything goes well right up to the floating continent but then any sort of plot stops in the WoR. This world can be summed up as: gather all your party, level up like mad in the dino island and go to Kefka. Compared to the WoB, it seriously lacks.

See, I never found the World of Ruin lacking anything, just 'cause it's so interesting that it's holds an abundance of side-missions. Sure, in theory you could go straight ahead to Kefka's Tower, but that's just the thing about the new scattered world: there's time to explore more!
And I also think that maybe it would've been more of a drag if you HAD to get back all other characters. sexpot Maybe.


The Esper System is another issue...you can load any of your characters with all the magic you want without this having a negative impact on them and unlike the materia system on VII, where your characters must have the materia equiped even after they are mastered, in VI, you can pass over the esper to someone else and still retain the abilities you have learned. It seems rather unbalanced.

True, some parts of the system like that were sorta broken, but yet again, I never found the unbalance to be annoying or something.


Flame away.

Nooo, I quite often like a fun discussion. :D

But don't you also figure out very early in the game that Terra isn't the only one who can use magic, 'cause of characters like Kefka and Celes?

Sure, but the game makes a big deal at the start about Terra and Celes being magic users and of Terra’s ability to communicate with the Espers, as we see in the scene in the beginning and before she transforms when she communicates with Tritoch in Narshe. Kefka can use magic but still is looking for Terra, surely she was important for something. Kefka and Celes are able to use magic due to experiments made by the empire and Terra was born from an Esper and a Human. So in a way they are special. But then all of the sudden, in Zozo you meet the Esper Ramuth and speak to him as if he was just another guy and you are granted Espers and in the blink of an eye everyone can use magic. This basically throws away everything that was being built upon until that point, Terra’s role takes a back seat and she and Celes become just like any other party member. In the end, Terra, which we are lead to believe is a very important character is made so irrelevant that you can finish the game without getting her in the WoR.



And I also think that maybe it would've been more of a drag if you HAD to get back all other characters. sexpot Maybe.

Perhaps, but the game doesn’t has to force you to get each of the characters individually. It could be that Celes meets a couple of them and then you find the rest of the group together, who were also looking for them and planning on a way to defeat Kefka.

Kefka and Celes are able to use magic due to experiments made by the empire and Terra was born from an Esper and a Human. So in a way they are special. But then all of the sudden, in Zozo you meet the Esper Ramuth and speak to him as if he was just another guy and you are granted Espers and in the blink of an eye everyone can use magic. This basically throws away everything that was being built upon until that point, Terra�s role takes a back seat and she and Celes become just like any other party member. In the end, Terra, which we are lead to believe is a very important character is made so irrelevant that you can finish the game without getting her in the WoR.

Hm, you're right. I thought you were only talking about the use of magic spells, not the espers. :/ Never stood still about that.


Perhaps, but the game doesn�t has to force you to get each of the characters individually. It could be that Celes meets a couple of them and then you find the rest of the group together, who were also looking for them and planning on a way to defeat Kefka.

Yeah that could perfectly work out, but still, the fact that the game isn't like that, but that it's scattered in quite a few side-missions: I like that! It feels quite unordinary, not that it isn't rare in rpg games that all characters become seperated, it's just a part that makes FFVI for what it is.

I personally don't consider FFVI to be overrated. I believe the game was groundbreaking and the epic story and deep complexity of each and every character was sensational.

I reckon FFVII is far more overrated.

If you're going to rip off Yahtzee's lines, at least get it right (putrescent, not pubescent) and give credit where it's due.

We have a winner, congrats for recognizing fucking Yahtzee when it's painfully obvious I'm trying to rip him off entirely. Also, dually noted about the correct spelling in punctuation, I was trying to figure it out for a bit. It confused me tro no extent... although, I could've easily done something original...

I believe the game was groundbreaking...

In what sense do you feel that FFVI was groundbreaking? Not saying it wasn't, just want to know what you think.



I reckon FFVII is far more overrated.

Heh, I think I'll start a thread about VII being overrated to discuss.

Also, dually noted about...

Duly.

For the record, I agree with some of what Egami says, particularly regarding VI's gameplay. One thing I have against the game (in addition to the Esper complaint Egami mentioned) is that secondary commands are almost invariably more useful than primary ones on certain characters such as Edgar, Sabin or Cyan, making the humble 'Attack' command useless.

...secondary commands are almost invariably more useful than primary ones on certain characters such as Edgar, Sabin or Cyan, making the humble 'Attack' command useless.

The main problem with the abilities of these characters is that you can spam them as many times as you want at no cost. That is why they make the Attack command useless. If they used MP or had some negative impact on the perfomance of the character in battle, things would be different.

For the record, I agree with some of what Egami says, particularly regarding VI's gameplay. One thing I have against the game (in addition to the Esper complaint Egami mentioned) is that secondary commands are almost invariably more useful than primary ones on certain characters such as Edgar, Sabin or Cyan, making the humble 'Attack' command useless.

There are so many broken strategies in FFVI that this gripe is almost completely irrelevant. Before the Floating Continent, you're pretty much completely right, as the only broken things you can do are Vanish/Doom and Psycho Cyan, and by the time you have the spells you need for those, you'll most likely be overlevelled for the FC anyway.

Once you make it to the WoR, you can get Ultima (quad-9 spammage in low-40's with Relm), Illumina and an Offering (for 79,992 damage with a Genji Glove, an Atma Weapon and your humble Attack command), a Merit Award (for Wind God Gau), Gogo (in case one Wind God wasn't enough), an infinite supply of Economizers (which make Egami's point also apply to Magic), at least two Minervas (the main ingredient to making Celes/Terra invincible), and Rasp/Osmose (when many bosses die when their MP reach 0). I could keep going on, but I think everybody understands how absurdly broken this game can be.

I could keep going on, but I think everybody understands how absurdly broken this game can be.


This game came out in 94/95?? I doubt there were many games that were absolutly flawless. It was dope when it was first released and an improvement from FFUS II all the way around.

Sincerly,
Vanish----X-Zone

There are so many broken strategies in FFVI that this gripe is almost completely irrelevant. Before the Floating Continent, you're pretty much completely right, as the only broken things you can do are Vanish/Doom and Psycho Cyan, and by the time you have the spells you need for those, you'll most likely be overlevelled for the FC anyway.

Once you make it to the WoR, you can get Ultima (quad-9 spammage in low-40's with Relm), Illumina and an Offering (for 79,992 damage with a Genji Glove, an Atma Weapon and your humble Attack command), a Merit Award (for Wind God Gau), Gogo (in case one Wind God wasn't enough), an infinite supply of Economizers (which make Egami's point also apply to Magic), at least two Minervas (the main ingredient to making Celes/Terra invincible), and Rasp/Osmose (when many bosses die when their MP reach 0). I could keep going on, but I think everybody understands how absurdly broken this game can be.

So because there's loads of issues with VI's gameplay, it diminishes the damage caused to the game by any one given gameplay issue?

That's what you seem to be saying here; if I'm mis-reading you, apologies.


The main problem with the abilities of these characters is that you can spam them as many times as you want at no cost. That is why they make the Attack command useless. If they used MP or had some negative impact on the perfomance of the character in battle, things would be different.

Exactly what I'm saying. To some degree, using Cyan's abilities could hamper your strategy as it took time to load the gauge, but for Edgar and Sabin they are just more powerful abilities with no drawbacks (assuming you can master the fairly simple Blitz inputs).

FFIV > FFVI
As long as you're not playing the garbage DS remake of IV, anyway.

FFIV > FFVI
As long as you're not playing the garbage DS remake of IV, anyway.

I literally had to sit here with my mouth agape, wondering how this can be said... I've played 4, never finished it couldn't bare to. The story WAS engrossing then it just got repetitive.

Anywhoo back onto the thread. I do believe FFVI is overrated. Not because people say it is the best FF ever, which I disagree with, it's because people act like it's the best game in existence! I will say FFVI is in my top 2 FF games, FFV being my personal favorite, the job system alone makes it a top candidate. Now FFVI, I liked it, it was really perfect but honestly it's not the grandest thing ever deployed on Earth. I think it was overrated for the same reason as FFVII, because the term "revolutionary" gets thrown around far TOO much. FFVI was "revolutionary" because it was the first FF to have a story that wasn't centered around crystals. Rather than a group of people going around getting crystals, bringing them together, and then fighting the big bad end boss. That was the first time the FF series got an installment, that dealt mostly with character development, not to say the others had no development, but FFVI was on a much higher level. Each individual had a fully immersive story, and each character was very likable. The story was great, and the gameplay was also a nice touch. But with all those great traits that doesn't make it the best thing ever.

So because there's loads of issues with VI's gameplay, it diminishes the damage caused to the game by any one given gameplay issue?

That's what you seem to be saying here; if I'm mis-reading you, apologies.

That's not exactly what I meant, but honestly, you're pretty close. The point I was trying to make is that the "free" abilities aren't such a big deal compared to the strats that can kill pretty much anything in the game in a single turn or making two of your characters invincible with the MBlock glitch.


This game came out in 94/95?? I doubt there were many games that were absolutly flawless. It was dope when it was first released and an improvement from FFUS II all the way around.

Vanish/Doom is an improvement over the Avenger Sword dupe glitch that lets Edge throw Excaliburs as if they were common shurikens? As overpowered as Rydia was by the end of FFIV, I highly doubt making Terra/Celes invincible with the MBlock glitch is an improvement.

...compared to the strats that can kill pretty much anything in the game in a single turn....

Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqV0C9Ir7RM

Hehe...

Duly.

Fuck. I blame my gullibility, and Firefox spell check.

That's not exactly what I meant, but honestly, you're pretty close. The point I was trying to make is that the "free" abilities aren't such a big deal compared to the strats that can kill pretty much anything in the game in a single turn or making two of your characters invincible with the MBlock glitch.

Well, pretty much what I was getting at.

In any case, if the secondary abilities issue isn't a big deal simply because the game has more pressing gameplay issues, then that simply underlines the fact that VI's gameplay is in truth rather broken.

Or you could, you know, ignore the broken glitches and enjoy the game. :I

Well, I did enjoy VI somewhat, but you can enjoy something and still agree that it is over-rated.

You know what's overrated?







Final Fantasy II.

Or you could, you know, ignore the broken glitches and enjoy the game. :I

*dittowe

You know what's overrated?

Final Fantasy II.

I agree. I mean, it's okay, but when compared to FFI, it's pretty shit.

Dunno why everyone raves on about it.

I personally couldn't get into FFI. I never played II or III. It wasn't until IV that I became a fan.

I don't think Final Fantasy VI is overrated. I think the praise it gets is well deserved. Just because something is popular with many people, doesn't mean it's overrated. That's something a lot of people don't seem to understand.

+1 couldn't have said it better myself.

I have a few views about this topic:

1)I know a lot of people like to say VII is the best of the series. However, it would never had been made if VI didn't gain the kind of following it did. VI has the type of story that helped pave the way ideal wise for VII. If VI had done bad in sales in Japan, VII would have never been made.
2)Now, is VI overrated? No. If you are truly a FF fan, you love different things about each game in the series. Is VII the best ever in the series? Can't say for sure, yet. As long as there are more FF games being made then there can be no best in the series. Not to mention XIII is looking like it's going to be friggin' incredible.
3)Everyone has one game that they love a little more than the others. I, personally love VI the most, with VIII, Tactics , VII and IX as my top 5 faves. If the person that started this doesn't like VI, that's their choice. We all have our own opinions of the ones we like or not, which are neither right nor wrong. To consider a game overrated means you are just not looking at each aspect of the game and seeing the improvements it has made because of its' predecessors. Each game has strived to improve upon the good qualities of the one before it.
4)I'm an old school gamer that has been playing this series since FF I on Nintendo and have enjoyed every game since. I will say that each console has had it's FF game that made the console as big as it is. For the NES, it was FF I. For the SNES, it was VI. For the PS1, it was VII. For the PS2 it was X. Each console had a FF game that helped the system it was on to grow in popularity with RPG fans and helped introduce a lot of non-RPG fans to the genre. I would say that each new FF game that comes out is a blessing because that means that the series is still viewed by game companies as important to their consumers, us.

I'm willing to bet, if they remade FF6 on a next gen system...or any system that isn't 2-d. 99% of people would give it the nod

Edit: never mind, replied to a post from august.

Yeah, I guess I could see where you're coming from. The were many characters but it was kind of hard to get an in-depth analysis from any of them. I guess the only reason I liked it was because I thought it was the most fun FF out of all the ones I've played. The thing is that I normally see people raving about FFVII, X, and XII and not so much with VI.

Kefka is hot shut up

I'm actually on a brand new playthrough of VI whilst writing this. (The game is really playing on the PS3 right now.) I'm just about to leave from Narshe for the first time AND I AM HAVING THE TIME OF MY LIFE OMG.

Honestly, I also think it's overrated. It was the first FF game I've finished, but it stands at last on my ranking.
I know the story's nice and it has interesting characters, but I think the gameplay, battle system and pacing just didn't cut it. If you're not on it just for the story, it is a bland and tedious experience. I can't stand when RPGs can't balance both sides: story and gameplay.

I actually gave the game a "Nth" chance just yesterday. Played it for about 2 hours, got to the city with Shadow and that "send the old man the wine" stuff, but it just wasn't fun.

I have to say something about the complain that Terra isn't so special since everyone get to use magic at one point in the story.

I disagree.

Terra can use magic, and so does Celes who was enhanced after magitek experiments done on her.
Throughout the entire game, Terra is special because she's naturally gifted for magic, for one, but more importantly she's special because of her link with both races, Esper and Human. She's the reason why every other characters can learn magic later on. Ramuh accepted to give his power to the party after he saw that they wanted to help Terra by rescuing the Espers still kept in the Magitek Facility. Nothing of that would have happened if Terra hadn't been half Esper and gone crazy before reaching Zozo.


Edgar: Something happened to Terra... There seems to be some connection between Espers and her... Anyway, we need to find her. Witnesses saw her screaming across the sky to the west.


Terra is still special, at least as far as the story goes. And she's still the most powerful magic user in the game (as far as the stats goes... rendered pretty much useless once you've boosted all your characters to the max).



Oh, and Final Fantasy VI is certainly NOT over-rated.
Not everyone will like it, especially if played for the first time a decade and a half after release when the standards have changed since then.

Even so, I think it fares quite well compared to many current gen JRPGs.

14 years later it's still the standard barer for me.

Don't tell me. I'm playing Final Fantasy IV DS right now. One of my favorite in the series. But I'm always thinking about Final Fantasy VI as I play.


Not fun at all. It's detracting my mind from the enjoyment of the game.

yay, this got bumped. I completely forgot about this thread. FFIV is better I think. The story seems more accessable to me and the characters more real. Maybe that's because of the many cutscenes or maybe because it's handheld and 3D. FFVI has always been a game I thought would be more fun handheld.

Oh, and Final Fantasy VI is certainly NOT over-rated.
Not everyone will like it, especially if played for the first time a decade and a half after release when the standards have changed since then.

Even so, I think it fares quite well compared to many current gen JRPGs.

Honestly, I also think it's overrated. It was the first FF game I've finished, but it stands at last on my ranking.

Really? We're the same, then. FFVII was the first FF I've played (and finished), yet FFVII is the worst of those I have played (1 to X), in my opinion.


I know the story's nice and it has interesting characters, but I think the gameplay, battle system and pacing just didn't cut it. If you're not on it just for the story, it is a bland and tedious experience. I can't stand when RPGs can't balance both sides: story and gameplay.

So, you blame FFVI for having a boring gameplay? Wow. I've never heard anyone complain about how FFVI's gameplay is tedious before. Maybe FFV's, FFI's or FFVIII's, but never about FFVI's. Care to explain HOW it is bad?

So, you blame FFVI for having a boring gameplay? Wow. I've never heard anyone complain about how FFVI's gameplay is tedious before. Maybe FFV's, FFI's or FFVIII's, but never about FFVI's. Care to explain HOW it is bad?

I didn't say it's BAD, but I find it bland and boring.

I dunno, I guess the game's pacing (at least for the first half) is so story-centered that nome of the random battles seems to have a real purpose except being a pain and slowing me down. It's almost the same thing I feel with FFX, with the exception FFX had a challenging final boss :P
From the overworld map to the cities exploration' to the battle system, I just think there's no incentive for me to keep going. Really, I'd rather have the game play itself through the story and dungeons while I watch it.

You can't blame me for trying, though: FFVI might be one of the RPGs I restarded most times in my life, but it just loses my interest a few hours in. Damn, I've played, finished and enjoyed the hell out of FFIX for the first time last week, and I had no problems enduring the "slow-ass" battles that so much people claim it makes the game unplayable by today's standards.

One thing I'm certain at: I didn't grew to despise FFVI after hearing "how much the game was incredible and stuff" at the internet, like many people tend to hate some games when they get much love from a certain fanbase (I'm not saying it was your case with FFVII). By the time I played and finished it I didn't even use the internet at all, so I had no idea most people praised the game as such. It just came to me as a surprise.

I find the constant arguing about Sephiroth and Kefka to get really annoying

I don't think Final Fantasy VI is overrated at all. It's a great game but as many stated, it's not flawless. I loved the story, music, characters, and battle sytem. However, the one part that I didn't like was the arena battle in the World of Ruin. In this section, you had absolutely no control over your character during battle and were at the mercy of the computer. Fortunately, this was a totally optional part of game. But when you consider the limits of the 16 bit engine of the Super Nintendo/Super Famicon, this game was nothing short of phenominal in it's overall presentation.

boner for final fantasy VIII

I haven't posted in this, so why not.

Well what does over-rated mean? It typically means that if something is over-rated its commonly talked about and worshiped as something better than it truely is. This being said, I don't think FFVI is over-rated. It's highly loved, but that's well deserved love, in my opinion.

It wasn't that old :mad:

Like any Final Fantasy game, VI has both strong points and flaws. Its flaws include an overabundance of playable characters, several of which didn't have very well developed storylines and some of the previously mentioned complaints regarding the battle system. Strong points include the game's soundtrack, certain memorable scenes and well-developed and interesting characters that make up for some of the lesser-developed characters, particularly Cyan and General Leo.

Considering the fact that people will often shove their love for Final Fantasy VII down your throat, I consider that game to be MUCH MUCH more over rated VI ever was.

Of the Final Fantasy games, VI stands out for various reasons:

1. Terra is, to this day, the only Female Character that plays the Starting and Central role in a Final Fantasy game. Every other game has you start off as a Male hero. This will likely change with FF XIII, but until its release.

2. The Opera was the first event of its kind in a video game and still considered to be among the best sequences in almost all video games. I doubt anyone can say that the Opening to Ff X-2 can top the masterpiece that is the Opera.

3. Kefka is HUMAN. He isn't some misunderstood emo clone, nor some alien figure from outer space, or even a Time Traveling Witch from the Future. He was a man, an evil one, and IMO the Best FF villain we've got.

4. No other Final Fantasy, not even VII, has the characters dealing with the issues we see in VI. Insanity, Suicide, Losing a Lover. Tell me what other character in the FF universe had to watch the spirits of their lover and child ride off into the Afterlife?

No, FF VI isn't the best game ever. There will never be, IMO, a perfect/best game. But it has several elements that all the other Final Fantasies lack and is the one the blends elements of story and gameplay together the best.

1. Terra is, to this day, the only Female Character that plays the Starting and Central role in a Final Fantasy game. Every other game has you start off as a Male hero. This will likely change with FF XIII, but until its release.
I suppose Final Fantasy X-2 simply... doesn't count? Or doesn't count because you feel the story started in X? Also, I consider it debatable how much of a central role Terra plays in the game and I think the point at which she really loses it big-time is the part where she ends up being out of your party in the World of Ruin and you're not even required to have her rejoin.

I suppose Final Fantasy X-2 simply... doesn't count? Or doesn't count because you feel the story started in X? Also, I consider it debatable how much of a central role Terra plays in the game and I think the point at which she really loses it big-time is the part where she ends up being out of your party in the World of Ruin and you're not even required to have her rejoin.

I do not X-2 count as a Major Final Fantasy for two reasons. As you've stated, the Story started in X, thus the main character is still Tidus, enough so that most of X-2's 'story' is revolved around seeing him again.

Second, X-2 was nothing more then fanservice, a game to delight the perverted minds of 12 year old boys. Despite perfecting the ATB system and having an interesting class change system, overall the game is probably best described as the Black sheep of the FF family.

As for Terra's importance, you've really got to take into account ALL the storyline given to her. The same goes for the other characters.

Though Cyan may have only gotten two parts of the game to himself that had any impact on his character, I consider him one of the better developed characters because of the IMPACT of said storyline. As I stated before, who else in final fantasy history has had to watch their own lover and offspring leave the world of the living?

Terra's got even more. And while a lot of the World of Ruin is optional, that doesn't mean we can just cut out their story. It would be like cutting out Shadows Dreams, just because you didn't see them in your own game. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. You've gotta take the entire game and all it's elements with it, weather you complete the game and get all the characters or not.

Really, Terra had almost the entire game dedicated to finding out about her past and whats happening with the world around her. It's because of who she is that the entire thing even starts, and honestly, I consider her to be an important member to the story line and the central character.

I liked FFVI better as FFIII on the SNES, i hate playing FFVI on the ps1 is runs slower then it did as FFIII on the snes although i never did beat it.

Poke -- you and I are going to have to agree to disagree about X-2. As far as I'm concerned, those that feel that way about that game are only looking at surface appearances.

You'll get no arguments from me about Cyan. He's my favorite character in the game and I already stated that I like him. As for Terra, well, I can't really argue with anything you said and my opinion of the matter may be colored by the fact that I, personally, just don't really care for her much as a character-- I prefer both Celes and Relm.

Poke -- you and I are going to have to agree to disagree about X-2. As far as I'm concerned, those that feel that way about that game are only looking at surface appearances.

You'll get no arguments from me about Cyan. He's my favorite character in the game and I already stated that I like him. As for Terra, well, I can't really argue with anything you said and my opinion of the matter may be colored by the fact that I, personally, just don't really care for her much as a character-- I prefer both Celes and Relm.

Sounds alright to me. In the end, all this is about our opinions. None of it has to be taken as stone cold fact. Really, I just disliked how X-2 took everything Iconic of Final Fantasy and threw it out the window.

As for not liking Terra, that's alright too. Not everyone has to like a character, but that doesn't mean she didn't have a well developed and Engaging storyline. As for Celes and Relm, I loved Celes because she was in many ways a more tragic character then Terra. Relm I would have liked more Game Play wise if her ability actually worked.

Considering the fact that people will often shove their love for Final Fantasy VII down your throat, I consider that game to be MUCH MUCH more over rated VI ever was.

Of the Final Fantasy games, VI stands out for various reasons:

1. Terra is, to this day, the only Female Character that plays the Starting and Central role in a Final Fantasy game. Every other game has you start off as a Male hero. This will likely change with FF XIII, but until its release.

Sorry but Rydia of Final Fantast IV owns all. No one can top the green summoner who went from a traumatized little girl, to a kickass adult summoner that badass Edge can't even handle.

Garnet of Final Fantasy IX is also higher on the list than Terra for me.

Sorry but Rydia of Final Fantast IV owns all. No one can top the green summoner who went from a traumatized little girl, to a kickass adult summoner that badass Edge can't even handle.

Garnet of Final Fantasy IX is also higher on the list than Terra for me.

I don't see how that relates to my post about Terra being the first and only Female starting character in a main Final Fantasy game. Rydia and Garnet are both cool characters, but the former was 'aged up' away from everyone else, which tells us nothing of her character, and Garnet, from what I remember, was whined on the level of Rinoa from FF8.

i tink 7 was better because of monsters and tifa had a big breast

Hi5 <3

i tink 7 was better because of monsters and tifa had a big breast

My dear child, please actually learn ALL of your alphabet and how to use it before trying to talk anywhere. Thank you, and please learn that there's more to life then breasts, particularly over inflated beach balls like that Tifa has in the original game.

DON'T PATRONIZE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have preferred it if you said there is more to life than a breast, there's two. Also, there's more to life than video game breasts, 3-D though they may be.

Edit: No bastard onion kid tells me what to do!

Yeah, wth n00b. His comment was aces. Pure aces.

DON'T PATRONIZE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have preferred it if you said there is more to life than a breast, there's two. Also, there's more to life than video game breasts, 3-D though they may be.

Edit: No bastard onion kid tells me what to do!

Haha, what a good start for a noob! welcome to the shrine!
Usually noobs just fuck themselves up throughout the forum and make ZERO sense.

1000 posts!

Yeah! Its much better to be a "bellender" then an Onion Kid.

DON'T PATRONIZE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have preferred it if you said there is more to life than a breast, there's two. Also, there's more to life than video game breasts, 3-D though they may be.

Edit: No bastard onion kid tells me what to do!

Onion Kid =/= Actual age and competence. I may have lurked a bit more the I should have on this site, but this by no means shows that I'm unable to actually use proper grammar and spelling, something that you had shown in your previous post to have lacked.

Getting back to the actual subject of the thread, The whole fact that Tifa has breasts the size of trucks doesn't make her a good character. Just makes her porn fodder. As for the whole talk about Tifa, this is also completely the wrong thread. This is about Final Fantasy VI being overrated, though I still stand by my own point that it's VII that's the overrated one, particularly when fans like you get up in arms about it.

Wait a sec-- yimpat's posts were actually mean to be taken seriously and weren't jokes?

Shhh, don't tell.

Onion Kid =/= Actual age and competence. I may have lurked a bit more the I should have on this site, but this by no means shows that I'm unable to actually use proper grammar and spelling, something that you had shown in your previous post to have lacked.

Getting back to the actual subject of the thread, The whole fact that Tifa has breasts the size of trucks doesn't make her a good character. Just makes her porn fodder. As for the whole talk about Tifa, this is also completely the wrong thread. This is about Final Fantasy VI being overrated, though I still stand by my own point that it's VII that's the overrated one, particularly when fans like you get up in arms about it.

G.I joke.
edit:I was getting up in arms about breasts and onion kids, not final fantasy VII.

You make no sense, Yimpat! Write this thread off and lets get on topic.

I looked for the PS version of FF6 the other day, and a new version costs around �40-60!!!
Overpriced - definately
Overrated - I haven't played it yet.

I suppose it's getting rare? I bought it on eBay a while back and don't recall paying an overly-huge amount for it. What's that in U.S. dollars?

Roughly $60-90.
Yeah, it is quite rare now.

Who wants my PSX copy of Anthology?

The lag to open the menu KILLS IT.

Who wants my PSX copy of Anthology?

The lag to open the menu KILLS IT.

I'll have it. :)

I agree about the lag, though. Horrible.

I agree about the lag, though. Horrible.

Both the PS and GBA versions are merely Roms placed onto the respective disc/cartridge of either system. Because of this, for some odd reason, both games experience some form of lag. Honestly, though, the GBA version has less of it and a rewritten storyline, so I'd suggest that one over the PS one.

Lag time? Lag time? These young whippersnappers. Why, back in my day, we had lag uphill, both ways, in the snow. We were lucky if we even got our video games in black-and-white. These kids these days-- they don't know how good they have it.

We're the same age. TRY AGAIN.

Lag time? Lag time? These young whippersnappers. Why, back in my day, we had lag uphill, both ways, in the snow. We were lucky if we even got our video games in black-and-white. These kids these days-- they don't know how good they have it.

I played Digimon World 2. THAT'S LAG TIME.

I don't think Final Fantasy VI is overrated. I think the praise it gets is well deserved. Just because something is popular with many people, doesn't mean it's overrated. That's something a lot of people don't seem to understand.

so true, FF6 is a great game, I just finished it a few months ago so can look back unbiased and I loved it!! 9/10

so true, FF6 is a great game, I just finished it a few months ago so can look back unbiased and I loved it!! 9/10

Right on man, it is a great game. good first post.

FF6 is a game that frustrates me endlessly. Technically, it's severely broken... even if you don't happen to have a version that's riddled with bugs (beneficial or not, a bug is a bug), the Vanish-Doom/X-Zone trick is far, far too powerful, and totally breaks the game... far more so than any problems in FF7-10. And, "So don't use it" is not an excuse. That's like telling people not to use infinite combos in a fighting game. They shouldn't be there in the first place, and proper testing would've gotten rid of them.

From a writing standpoint, it's genuinely awful. You have fourteen playable characters, not a one of which is actually crucial to the main storyline. Every single one of them could have been excised from the game completely with minimal changes in the writing. Let's count them off:

* Edgar & Sabin: The only tie these two have is to each other.
* Locke & Celes: Same story. No relation to anything except each other. Celes' magic-infusion plot thread is completely forgotten shortly after it is mentioned.
* Cyan & Gau: Nothing to do with anyone but themselves. Any character whose primary development comes in the form of an optional sidequest is pretty ancillary by definition.
* Mog, Umaro, Gogo: These three barely have anything to do, period.
* Setzer: A painfully transparent excuse to introduce the airships.
* Relm, Shadow and Strago: These three comprise an unrelated subplot that can only get resolved if you happen to meet a few specific criteria, and get lucky (with the dreams).
* Terra: The only one with a real tie to the main plot, but even her connection is tenuous enough for her to receive no real resolution to her conflicts, and play no role in the climax and resolution of the story. She wound up as little more than a plot device, and never seemed to find any resolution to her inner conflicts. In fact, other than the bit with the orphanage (which struck me as perfunctory, at best), the game kind of just forgot about her. Espers and Magicite were no longer of any consequence. She could just as well have been just another random party member.

I've had the argument presented to me that this lack of involvement is the point of the whole endeavor, to present that the theme of the story is regular people standing up for a cause, so the individuals don't really need a direct cause-and-effect link to the primary goings-on. That may be, but it doesn't excuse the slipshod writing and lack of any actual character resolution. A story is about more than just themes. It's about characters. This "day-in-the-life" approach is ineffectual when dealing with events that large in scope.

The actual main character of the game, Kefka, completely disappears at the midway point, and is reduced from being a genuinely engaging villain to a spectre and what is essentially a cameo at the very end. Any direction the plot had up through the first half of the game falls to pieces with the World of Ruin. Turning Kefka into a shadow player was a bad move... it was, after all, he that drove the plot forward at every turn. Without him to focus on, the last half of the game just kind of meanders. He was the most compelling member of the cast, and after he achieved his goal, he turned into a very generic "destroy the world" baddie with no real dialogue to speak of. After he exits stage left, the focus then falls to the individual characters to support the progress of the story, and they are just too sketchily characterized to be up to the task.

Sorry, but this is just bad writing by any useful standard, and "it's only a videogame" doesn't excuse that. An RPG survives on its story, and there simply isn't much of one to FF6. The game is well-loved by many people, more out of a misguided sense of nostalgia than any actual quality. And yes, I played it when it first came out on the SNES, way back when, and I'm quite familiar with it.

Popularity does not equal quality.

FF6 is a game that frustrates me endlessly. Technically, it's severely broken... even if you don't happen to have a version that's riddled with bugs (beneficial or not, a bug is a bug), the Vanish-Doom/X-Zone trick is far, far too powerful, and totally breaks the game... far more so than any problems in FF7-10. And, "So don't use it" is not an excuse. That's like telling people not to use infinite combos in a fighting game. They shouldn't be there in the first place, and proper testing would've gotten rid of them.

From a writing standpoint, it's genuinely awful. You have fourteen playable characters, not a one of which is actually crucial to the main storyline. Every single one of them could have been excised from the game completely with minimal changes in the writing. Let's count them off:

* Edgar & Sabin: The only tie these two have is to each other.
* Locke & Celes: Same story. No relation to anything except each other. Celes' magic-infusion plot thread is completely forgotten shortly after it is mentioned.
* Cyan & Gau: Nothing to do with anyone but themselves. Any character whose primary development comes in the form of an optional sidequest is pretty ancillary by definition.
* Mog, Umaro, Gogo: These three barely have anything to do, period.
* Setzer: A painfully transparent excuse to introduce the airships.
* Relm, Shadow and Strago: These three comprise an unrelated subplot that can only get resolved if you happen to meet a few specific criteria, and get lucky (with the dreams).
* Terra: The only one with a real tie to the main plot, but even her connection is tenuous enough for her to receive no real resolution to her conflicts, and play no role in the climax and resolution of the story. She wound up as little more than a plot device, and never seemed to find any resolution to her inner conflicts. In fact, other than the bit with the orphanage (which struck me as perfunctory, at best), the game kind of just forgot about her. Espers and Magicite were no longer of any consequence. She could just as well have been just another random party member.

I've had the argument presented to me that this lack of involvement is the point of the whole endeavor, to present that the theme of the story is regular people standing up for a cause, so the individuals don't really need a direct cause-and-effect link to the primary goings-on. That may be, but it doesn't excuse the slipshod writing and lack of any actual character resolution. A story is about more than just themes. It's about characters. This "day-in-the-life" approach is ineffectual when dealing with events that large in scope.

The actual main character of the game, Kefka, completely disappears at the midway point, and is reduced from being a genuinely engaging villain to a spectre and what is essentially a cameo at the very end. Any direction the plot had up through the first half of the game falls to pieces with the World of Ruin. Turning Kefka into a shadow player was a bad move... it was, after all, he that drove the plot forward at every turn. Without him to focus on, the last half of the game just kind of meanders. He was the most compelling member of the cast, and after he achieved his goal, he turned into a very generic "destroy the world" baddie with no real dialogue to speak of. After he exits stage left, the focus then falls to the individual characters to support the progress of the story, and they are just too sketchily characterized to be up to the task.

Sorry, but this is just bad writing by any useful standard, and "it's only a videogame" doesn't excuse that. An RPG survives on its story, and there simply isn't much of one to FF6. The game is well-loved by many people, more out of a misguided sense of nostalgia than any actual quality. And yes, I played it when it first came out on the SNES, way back when, and I'm quite familiar with it.

Popularity does not equal quality.

You ought to post something like this about a game that do you like. Would be interesting to see what you come up with. I respectfully disagree with you, but let us see what do you care for that way I can understand your disgust with FF6 a little better.

Popularity does not equal quality.

You should go and post this over in the Final Fantasy 7 threads. They need to learn this lesson much more then we do.

Yeah, but when you know that standards are different for everyone, who are we to impose ours on others, other than self-centered snobs?

Yeah, but when you know that standards are different for everyone, who are we to impose ours on others, other than self-centered snobs?

What if one is a self-centered snob who happens to be right, though? :)

In all seriousness, opinions are not all equal, and it is possible to have a wrong one... one based on incomplete or incorrect information, for instance. Anyone who claims otherwise has either listened to a little too much 60s music, or perhaps watched too much Sesame Street. Real life doesn't work that way, sadly.

As for FF7, I never had any major issues with it... it was just sort of average. I will concede, though, that it was revolutionary, and there's no refuting that. It shaped the entire genre for years to come, in much the way Street Fighter II did with versus fighting games. Its merits as an RPG are somewhat debatable, and it honestly doesn't merit all the shameless milking that Squenidos has been doing. But it's hard to fault someone for being infatuated with the game that turned him/her on to a given genre, so long as they're not obnoxious about it. ;P

An opinion can be wrong...

Sure, it can be wrong, for a particular group of people or for you, him or they. But they can be right for many others.

You talk about opinions being based on incomplete or incorrect information, but when it comes to what you might think about a game, the information you have about it is most likely the same as any other players who played the game. Opinions are formed by your own personal sensibilities, experiences, knowledge, etc. As such, they can be right for you, but not necessarily right for others, who experienced things differently, with different "eyes". How you experienced Final Fantasy VI, for example, might not have been with the same state of mind as many other people. You formed an opinion about it based on your own standards and that's fine. Respect people who think differently now. Their standards are different, and obviously, many of them are bound to be more knowledgeable than you are.

What I mean here is that your opinion is complete shit as far as I'm concerned, just like mine is most likely shit for you right now.

An opinion can be wrong...
Sure, it can be wrong, for a particular group of people or for you, him or they. But they can be right for many others.
"Right," perhaps, but still factually invalid. I wouldn't give, say, a racist's opinions any respect. Likewise for a misogynist or homophobe.


Just like mine would be for you.
Not necessarily. If you can back your opinion up with observations, or actually refute a point I've made, rather than just casually dismissing an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, then I'd respect it, regardless of whether I agree with it. Otherwise, your argument is little more than childish gainsaying and/or covering your ears and going, "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

The only worthwhile opinion is the carefully-considered opinion. Otherwise, it doesn't mean anything.

I've already said what I had to tell you on the matter.

You do what you want (and/or can) with it. I certainly couldn't care less.

Obviously, you do, or else you wouldn't have responded again. I'm not trolling. I stated my opinion, backed it up with specific reasons why, and you responded with a bit of florid prose, leading up to a vulgar dismissal. I'm open to discussing the matter. My opinions can change, if I am shown or I find something new that's re-evaluating. Obviously, yours cannot, since your response was so knee-jerk (if rather low-key) hostile.

Start by understanding what I said before asking me to fight over an opinion.

Now, you're just being obnoxious. I understood you perfectly well, and I'm not asking you to fight. Again, simply stating my point.

Try understanding what I said. Or maybe you just haven't opened your package yet. (See, that's me being obnoxious.)

To be more strictly on topic, I've given the subject matter a considerable deal of thought in the fifteen years since the game was released and I was still an old kid at the age of 20. You simply seem to be upset that someone "dissed" a game you like, and you don't appear to be able to defend it.

Of course, since you don't care and my opinion is of no importance, you're probably not even reading this, and you certainly won't bother responding...

I'm not upset at all. And I don't think I've said anything that could be taken in that way.


Yeah, but when you know that standards are different for everyone, who are we to impose ours on others, other than self-centered snobs?


[...]


An opinion can be wrong...

Sure, it can be wrong, for a particular group of people or for you, him or they. But they can be right for many others.

You talk about opinions being based on incomplete or incorrect information, but when it comes to what you might think about a game, the information you have about it is most likely the same as any other players who played the game. Opinions are formed by your own personal sensibilities, experiences, knowledge, etc. As such, they can be right for you, but not necessarily right for others, who experienced things differently, with different "eyes". How you experienced Final Fantasy VI, for example, might not have been with the same state of mind as many other people. You formed an opinion about it based on your own standards and that's fine. Respect people who think differently now. Their standards are different, and obviously, many of them are bound to be more knowledgeable than you are.

What I mean here is that your opinion is complete shit as far as I'm concerned, just like mine is most likely shit for you right now.

Where did you get the feeling that I was upset after reading that? Was the tone you imagined I was using really that offensive?

My only problem with you is that you say stuff like that:

The game is well-loved by many people, more out of a misguided sense of nostalgia than any actual quality.

Hence the explanations about opinions I gave you. Hence why I don't think you understand anything of what I said.

Where did you get the feeling that I was upset after reading that? Was the tone you imagined I was using really that offensive?


other than self-centered snobs?
your opinion is complete shit as far as I'm concerned
I certainly couldn't care less.
Start by understanding what I said before asking me to fight over an opinion.

Insulting, vulgar, dismissive, terse. These are not the mannerisms of someone who is at ease. Ergo, I deduced that you are upset. Perhaps you're not. Perhaps you are all four of those things at all times. It doesn't concern me, as I don't know you.


Hence the explanations about opinions I gave you. Hence why I don't think you understand anything of what I said.

And again, I think I explained my outlook on them pretty clearly. An opinion is only worthwhile to its holder, unless said holder can explain them. "I like it because it's awesome," or words to that effect, are not a reason. People don't form opinions for no reason, whether they realize this at the time or not. And unless one can articulate those reasons, said opinions are of no value.

I provided my opinions, with the factual reasons behind them, for anyone to call me on and point out where I may have missed something. Thus far, I've seen nothing of the sort. For my part, I'm opinionated and I don't see any point in hiding it. I can back up my opinions with more than just anecdotal statements, and I make no apologies for who and what I am. Everything I do and say is for a specific reason or purpose. I'm not out to offend anyone, but neither am I going to hold my tongue to spare someone's feelings.

My point was to illustrate that your opinion does't mean much to those who loved the game and that not much will ever change that. Trying to prove that your opinion is right and that those who loved the game are in fact nothing more than misguided is childish at best and shows a closed-minded/self-centered attitude.

Why do you care to know why we love the game, if we're most likely just uninformed and misguided "nostalgics"?


I provided my opinions, with the factual reasons behind them, for anyone to call me on and point out where I may have missed something. Thus far, I've seen nothing of the sort. For my part, I'm opinionated and I don't see any point in hiding it. I can back up my opinions with more than just anecdotal statements, and I make no apologies for who and what I am. Everything I do and say is for a specific reason or purpose. I'm not out to offend anyone, but neither am I going to hold my tongue to spare someone's feelings.

I have nothing about being opinionated, most intelligent people are. What I don't like to see is someone else's views on something as subjective as game reviewing being forced on others. Like Locke FF36 pointed out, in some cases, it's wiser to just agree to disagree.

Now, since I can't be arsed to go on a lenghty dissertation about the game's strengths and qualities yet again, and you want something to bite this badly, I'll let someone else give you an eloquent yet differing view on the game. I don't agree to everything Richard says, but even if it's done years and years after the game's release, the points that he illustrates clearly explain the greatest strengths and qualities of Final Fantasy VI.

http://cerise.theirisnetwork.org/archives/519



Now before you childishly throw an other clich� at me again: I really don't care about you, I'm just bored shitless (And a natural sarcastic and cynical being. In other words, try not to take offense until I call you a retard, if that ever happens).

My point was to illustrate that your opinion does't mean much to those who loved the game and that not much will ever change that. Trying to prove that your opinion is right and that those who loved the game are in fact nothing more than misguided is childish at best and shows a closed-minded attitude.


EXACTLY. Thats the point I was trying to raise when I asked him to give a similar view on a game he did like, which he totally avoided doing.

The Shrine Illuminati can make all of this unpleasantness go away.

Just sayin' ;)

EXACTLY. Thats the point I was trying to raise when I asked him to give a similar view on a game he did like, which he totally avoided doing.

Not at all. Such a dissection takes time, and the FF6 post was formulated from notes gathered and reworded from several years gone by. If I seem closed-minded, it's because I am sure of myself. I don't bother speaking my mind unless I'm certain I'm right beforehand. Unless someone can provide new information, a fresh perspective, or some other aspect I've not previously considered, his/her comments get swept aside. I would not condemn a much-loved game without a good reason, much less do so on a forum which is apt to be filled with its fans. It does strike me as somewhat amusing, though, that in a topic entitled, "VI over-rated among FF fans?" the fact that someone argued that, not only is it overrated, it's not even particularly good, seems to be such a shock. Perhaps because I made a case for my reasoning, and am willing to back it up. Certainly, no one has made a case for the opposing view.

I can list off multiple things I enjoy, but gushing, effusive praise is something you'll never see out of me. Even the things I love, I can see and admit the faults in. Some of my favorite games are deeply flawed in some form or another, yet I enjoy them in spite of these issues. But the point is that I know they are there, and I'm comfortable with them.

I don't feel the need to leap to the defense of the things I enjoy, because I'm secure in my tastes. But if you'd like a breakdown of a few games I number among my favorites, here you go, in brief.

Ninja Gaiden (original, Black, Sigma): A blah story and less-than-stellar camera are superceded by flawless control tightly-paced combat with just the right amount of adventure-style gaming to keep things different. The difficulty level was just right, with the game requiring genuine skill and finesse to proceed... No need to cheat, and no cheap shots. Just aggressive AI and the constant pressure to improve until one became good enough to advance.

Of the Final Fantasy games, my favorites are 4, 8 and 9, each for very different reasons. FF4 is more or less due to my nostalgia. The story is very typical fantasy RPG... very standard Hero's Journey stuff. But because of when I played it, it made an indelible impression on me.

FF8 is broken... desperately so. In spite of that, I love it because it's so very enjoyable to manipulate the Draw/Junction system to my own nefarious ends. Very few RPGs inspire me to micromanage (a task I normally loathe with every fiber of my being), but FF8 makes me want to tinker. I also love the soundtrack.

FF9, I adored from start to finish. I played the Japanese version first, so I caught a lot of the references to previous games that managed to get lost in the trip across the pond. As archetypal as they often were, I loved most of the characters. Vivi is one of the best examples of how to flesh out a non-main character I've ever seen in an RPG. The character advancement system was also probably the most well-balanced of the entire series (not including XI-XII... haven't played them). It managed to strike a perfect blend between tribute and new ideas that made for a concoction I absolutely loved. Perfect? Hardly. It has some pacing issues (second disc, hello), and the combat could definitely do with being sped up a little bit, for starters.

My head is killing me and I need to go get some food, so I'll conclude with a few other games that I've particularly loved:

The Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time trilogy (all three, some more than others)
Samurai Shodown III
Mass Effect
Silent Hill (the original)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening
Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
Ys: The Oath in Felghana
Metal Gear Solid (series)
The King of Fighters XI
The Darkness
Rakugaki Showtime
Gamera 2000
Okami
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (and its offshoots)
Portal
Half-Life 2

That's a very incomplete list, but varied enough. Feel free to draw whatever conclusions about me you wish.

I think we need more of MoriyaMug...

No way, he said SH and not SH2 :mad:

lol

No way, he said SH and not SH2 :mad:

I don't care much for SH2, either, for a variety of reasons I could disclose. :)

No thanks.

No thanks.

+1

Why wouldn't you want to hear the absolute truth about SH2?

�_�

Why wouldn't you want to hear the absolute truth about SH2?

�_�

""YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH""!!!

""YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH""!!!

Evidently not.

Getting back to the topic, I think the one thing that I found myself in harmony with MoriyaMug's review more than any other was the blast on the characterization. That's always been my greatest complaint about this game and I think he hit it right on the head. There are a lot of unneeded playable characters in this game and even the ones that are halfway decent could have been developed way better.

Evidently not.

That one just won't get over himself. :rolleyes:

Yes, roll your eyes dismissively. Don't forget to stubbornly refuse to acknowledge or address a single point made for an opposing viewpoint. Also, accuse proponents of said viewpoint of being childish for massive damage. Debate is not your strong suit.

FYI, I was enjoying the game up until the World of Ruin (other than the forced introduction of Setzer). Rather a lot, in fact, which is why the right turn into sidequest-ville in the latter half of the game irritated me so. I get that Square was trying to do something different with the JRPG formula, and I respect that. I just don't think it worked. If they had truly wanted to make a radical change, they would have ended the game after Kefka disrupted the statues. That would have blown me away. Instead, the game meanders through a series of short "plotlets," where you don't actually have to re-acquire any of your characters beyond the three the game hands you to get to the end (it's hard as hell to do this without insane powerleveling, but it's possible). A well-written character is supposed to have an arc, and while most of them have it, some of them reach the end of it before the World of Ruin... or they get it through an optional side-quest. It's not just opinion that most of the characters barely interact with one another. Beyond the groupings I mentioned, how many of them actually address each other directly? The only instance that sticks out in my mind is when Edgar talks to Celes before the battle in Narshe. And the main story throughline, the Espers, has nothing to do with most of the cast.

Personally, I'd be interested in seeing them start the story over, but from Kefka's point of view. He was, by far, the most entertaining character in the game, and it'd be neat to see his side of things, since the game itself gives no hints into his background, other than touching upon him being magic-infused, like Celes... and just like with her, the subject is never revisited. Yeah, there's a story in FF6. It's just very thin and poorly written, and if one were reading a book with such disposable characters, one would consider it an awful book. If it were not for the Final Fantasy name and the nostalgia people associate with it, I honestly don't think most of its fans would hold it (or at least, not its story or characters) in such high regard. It's not an awful game... but it is not the best RPG out there, nor the best story in an RPG.

People get all up in arms about how FF7 is so boring and Cloud is angsty and Sephiroth's motivations are unclear... but hey, at least their backstories were dealt with, and their plot arcs resolved (whether or not this was done satisfactorily is a matter of personal interpretation). FF6 never even tries. Kefka is, for all his entertaining antics, basically just a lunatic nihilist. They could have done so much more with that... given his character some depth without changing who and what he is. And in more competent hands, perhaps they could have. Maybe all of my issues were things that would have been fixed in time, had the game been able to cook a little longer. But they weren't, and there's no indication that they might ever be. People may find my issues with it nitpicky, but they're born of facts about the game. And if anyone could refute them, they would be doing so, instead of simply saying, "Well, I like it. Case closed," or words to that effect. That's not an argument.

If someone likes it, more power to them. It didn't meet my standards when I was 20, and it doesn't meet them now that I'm 35. And if it seems arrogant of me to say so, I'm okay with that. FF6 was a good game, at its core (which is why revisiting it holds up to whatever degree applies), but much like FF9's localization, the devil is in the details. I think that Square was extremely ambitious, and their reach simply exceeded their grasp. They threw a whole boatload of ideas in, and didn't develop most of them very well. Yeah, it made for a lot of variety, and a fair showpiece for the SNES, but it hurts the game as a whole. It doesn't feel "unfinished," so much as "cobbled together." A house of cards.

Yes, roll your eyes dismissively. Don't forget to stubbornly refuse to acknowledge or address a single point made for an opposing viewpoint. Also, accuse proponents of said viewpoint of being childish for massive damage. Debate is not your strong suit.

I'm not here to impose my view and pretend to hold the absolute truth. Unlike you. I already see how you label those who think differently then you do. What gives.

I'm not here to impose my view and pretend to hold the absolute truth. Unlike you. I already see how you label those who think differently then you do. What gives.

I'm not interested in truth; I'm interested in facts (the ultimate end of science versus philosophy). I don't label anyone with different taste in games from my own. All you'd have to do is acknowledge the factual points I made and say, "But I like it anyway," and I'd be fine with that.

I honestly don't care if my manner offends you. I'm not out to convince anyone to like me. Those that are going to, will do so, regardless of what I may say (or indeed, because of it). No one has the right not to be offended. Am I an arrogant jerk? Quite likely. That's wholly immaterial to the subject matter at hand. The thread is about whether or not FF6 is overrated, a topic to which you've made no contribution. Instead, you'd rather focus on the manner by which I state that it is, indeed, overrated.

Yet you completely dismiss the review example I gave. Which doesn't agree with your view that it is overrated.

If I wanted to counter every point that you made, or most of them, I would have to go through the whole script of the game (again. As I've done so before on other sites) just to point out the many parts where there's indeed a lot of character development and resolutions (among other things), even if the game doesn't point out the color of their underwear or rely on heavy dialogues like in the most recent games in the series.

I just really don't feel like doing so right now, as I really don't have the time to go on a lenghty expos�.

Yet you completely dismiss the review example I gave. Which doesn't agree which your view that it is overrated.
I read it; I just didn't think it worth commenting on. It didn't exactly espouse the view that it's some divine gift from the RPG gods. The general gist of it was basically what I had just described: that the game is deeply flawed, yet the reviewer found it fun anyway. I can respect that. What I don't respect is the dogged insistence that something is unimpeachable, rather than accept that there even might be faults, simply accept them as part of the game, and just state that you like it in spite of them.

By your own admission, you have nothing to contribute to the actual topic at hand, so why are you even posting in this thread? It's not a matter of you addressing all of my points... you haven't addressed a single one. Most of your comments are just borderline ad hominem attacks.

He's not just saying that he enjoyed the game despite its flaws.

The first line of his very first paragraph says: Final Fantasy VI is, as everybody knows, one of the greatest games ever made.

And I don't recall anyone here saying that the game was "some divine gift from the RPG gods".

The first line of his very first paragraph says: Final Fantasy VI is, as everybody knows, one of the greatest games ever made.

And hyperbole is meaningless. You point out the review for the sake of refuting my claims, then cite the one sentence that, on its own, is nothing more than mindless gushing. I could just as easily say, "The original Terminator is the greatest film in the history of the medium." Which would then, no doubt, spur on tons of debate about its quality versus the sequel. It amounts to precisely nothing.

You would be far less at odds with me if what I said were in alignment with your own outlook. You don't care that I'm arrogant. You don't even care that I'm "pushing my opinion on others." If I were arguing as strongly in favor of FF6, then you would be cheering me on, however silently it might be. You're just annoyed that my negative opinion of your beloved game has a basis in fact, and you don't seem to be able to deal with that. You're just a hypocrite.

About that huge post you made, MoriyaMug...

Look, you have at many points of the game a team you've chosen to put together. Unless the party is scripted or you just are sure to have these exact party members, all of your party is optional.

Just mentioning this...

Look, you have at many points of the game a team you've chosen to put together. Unless the party is scripted or you just are sure to have these exact party members, all of your party is optional.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. That's more in support of my argument that none of the characters really have a personal stake in the main story (Kefka, Espers, return of magic, etc) than it is a refutation. Or at least, most of the game that isn't tailored specifically to certain characters is kept generic enough for anybody to fit in.

Also...


Sherlock is so glamorous, he pisses glitter.
That made me laugh. And wince, because it sounds painful. :)

I meant those "personal references" in your first paragraph.

And I'm too awesome to feel the pain.

You understand nothing at all here. I have no problem with how you feel about the game. I have a problem with the way you obnoxiously claim it is the be all end all truth about the game and how you call anyone that loves the game nothing else than misguided nostalgics.

I'll take my spare time in the coming days to go through the whole script and point where you failed to see just about everything.

I've had enough of your self-centered, obnoxious and pretentious crap. You should be happy, you'll have what you want.

I meant those "personal references" in your first paragraph.

And I'm too awesome to feel the pain.

I got what you meant. But my point is more that there's virtually no interplay between the members of the cast, beyond the groupings mentioned. Cyan and Sabin first meeting Gau was a rare (and pleasant) exception. Indeed, that particular segment of the game felt like a lot of love and care went into it, and I quite enjoyed it. If the game had not attempted to shoehorn the characters together, and instead been structured more like Live a Live, I would probably have enjoyed it more.

You understand nothing at all here. I have no problem with how you feel about the game.
But if I had posted in the exact same fashion, espousing the view that the game is a spectacular example of how an RPG should be done, you wouldn't be arguing with me. Ergo, you are a hypocrite.


you call anyone that loves the game nothing else than misguided nostalgics.
I never stated that "anyone that loves the game is nothing other than a misguided nostalgic." I submit that nostalgia plays the greatest role in why the game is so fondly regarded. Its status as the last 2D Final Fantasy probably doesn't hurt, either. But yes, nostalgia is most likely why people are either willing to overlook its flaws... or are completely blind to them, as you seem to be. You can't honestly think the game is perfect. Even disregarding all other arguments, perfection is a completely abstract concept.


I've had enough of your self-centered, obnoxious and pretentious crap. You should be happy, you'll have what you want.
Not particularly. I've been waiting for a while now to see if anyone would come up with anything, even a single instance, of where I am wrong. It hasn't happened. I hold hypocrites in the same regard that I hold liars (indeed, the two concepts are not so far apart) and the willfully obtuse, and you can probably guess where that is. Save your comedic dissertation of errors for someone else. Your word is worthless, ergo anything you have to say is equally so... and your command of English isn't so hot, either, though I'm sure you like to think otherwise.

Have fun with counting scenes and nurturing your righteous indignation.

LMAO!

See what you're doing there again? You don't even know what I could say about the game, and pretend I consider it perfect (where the hell did I even imply that, I wonder...) and that my analysis would be filled with errors.

Again, get the fuck over yourself.


Maybe no one came up with anything because they either agree with your opinion, or just think you aren't worth the attention that you so seek.


(And seriously, your reliance on petty insults are childish at best.)

You don't even know what I could say about the game, and pretend I consider it perfect (where the hell did I even imply that, I wonder...) and that my analysis would be filled with errors.
You've already shown yourself to be a hypocrite. You can't come up with an argument without having to consult the game? Why should I trust your word if I can't trust your memory? You've been sitting there, trying (unsuccessfully) to argue that I'm wrong in the traditional "you're just a snob" tradition that's so popular on the internet. I gave you plenty of opportunity to argue a case. You failed to do so.


Again, get the fuck over yourself.
It's nice to see that you have the integrity to take the high road when you impugn someone else's maturity.


(And seriously, your reliance on petty insults are childish at best.)
Way to prove the "poor command of English" point. Singular subject (reliance) and plural verb conjugation. Nicely done.

See, what you don't get is this: I don't care if you're insulted. Your opinion of me carries no weight. I don't know who you are. You could die in the next two minutes and it would have no impact on my life. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I enjoy debate for its own sake, and I don't need validation from strangers on the internet. Aside from being incapable of forming a real argument, you had the same chance I give to everyone... you start at zero, and where you go from there is up to you. You've given me absolutely no reason to respect you or your outlook, and with every post, you only serve to diminish yourself. So, diminish away.

*yawn

It was an okay installation. Didn't really stand out for me. :/

This still going on? About time for some ads for Cheap Jordan Shoes, if you ask me :D

MoriyaMug, egghhh, your opinion kinda sucks dude. Not that I don't respect it, but your out to prove something thats needs not be proven. Your trying to be 'convincing', and your pushy, ..... learn to adjust that.

*yawn
Well done, kid. Diminishing successful.


MoriyaMug, egghhh, your opinion kinda sucks dude.
You only think so because my view contradicts your own. Again, if I were arguing in favor of FF6 in the exact same tone, you wouldn't mind the way I present my argument, because it's no challenge to your way of thinking.


your pushy, ..... learn to adjust that.
I will most certainly endeavor to adjust my pushy, but I can make no promises.

No, its because it sounds to me like you haven't played the entire game, you haven't embraced the game the same way the rest of us have. Sounds like you gave it a quick play through, you present your argument well, you just need to play through the whole game, its just like Chrono Trigger or Terranigma, expierence the whole thing ----

"Your opinion sucks," "his opinion sucks," "you didn't fully play the game," blah blah blah. This thread is really starting to tire me out. And now, I close it.