The genre of a game might not have to do alot with its transition but
imo with rpgs it means a lot.

Okay, that's a contradiction. First you say it probably doesn't matter, then you say it matters a lot for RPG's. And then you don't particularly back it up. If the jump was such a big deal, why were there so many remakes/rereleases of older, 2d games, like, oh, all the "classic" FF's, Chrono Trigger, and the two Lunars? Besides, you're still missing my point. Just about everybody was doing 3d stuff by late '97 (Konami's CV: SotN being the notable exception), so FFVII isn't special in any way just because it was the first 3d FF. If it were released at, say, launch, or shortly thereafter, you might have a salient point.

Here's a somewhat fitting corellary (assuming I spelled that right): Red Steel is getting all kinds of hype, mainly because of its use of the Wiimote and Nunchuck (a new "thing" in gaming, like 3d stuff was at ps1's launch). In, say, eighteen months, a game with that sort of control won't be hailed in any way like Red Steel, simply because it will have been done for eighteen months already. Do you see the connection?


I feel if ff fails the rpg genre will go under the radar again.

That's purely speculation, and in the context of this discussion, quite pointless.


If its jump to 3d/ next gen wasn't successful who knows where the series or the genre would be.

More pure speculation, and equally as pointless.


Ok so oblivion was rated the same as advent rising. We already proved that the games with the most marketing aren't always the most succesful, with advent rising being a specific example.

We never proved that. The pattern we established was one of highly advertised games getting higher reviews than they deserve. Also, for the bajillionth time, popularity doesn't equal quality. We're not talking about FFVII's popularity here. We all know how popular FFVII was. We're trying to discuss its quality.


sorry for post looking shitty but I emailed response from my sidekick while I was on train and Im too lazy to fix lol.

LoL, that post was a pain to work through!


just to let you know...i'm double majoring in Music and Physics...so both of the arguments posed in the post you referenced to have more weight than your accusations as to their validity

Shenanigians. First you play the thug card, with "bullet in the brain" nonsense, now you're going know-it-all on us? Please, if you're going to be a know-it-all, at least be relevant.

Shenanigians. First you play the thug card, with "bullet in the brain" nonsense, now you're going know-it-all on us? Please, if you're going to be a know-it-all, at least be relevant.

it was relevant to an argument that i made concerning dimensions with Van Finel

and who said that i'm a know-it-all?
who said that i can't be a gun fanatic and a music junkie at the same time?
do you know me personally?...no
so don't go making assumptions

Assumptions? You're the one blathering about your double-major. The argument you started was perfectly irrelevant, as you were trying to argue stupid semantics. We all get that a TV screen is flat. Seriously.

Okay, that's a contradiction. First you say it probably doesn't matter, then you say it matters a lot for RPG's. And then you don't particularly back it up. If the jump was such a big deal, why were there so many remakes/rereleases of older, 2d games, like, oh, all the "classic" FF's, Chrono Trigger, and the two Lunars? Besides, you're still missing my point. Just about everybody was doing 3d stuff by late '97 (Konami's CV: SotN being the notable exception), so FFVII isn't special in any way just because it was the first 3d FF. If it were released at, say, launch, or shortly thereafter, you might have a salient point.

Here's a somewhat fitting corellary (assuming I spelled that right): Red Steel is getting all kinds of hype, mainly because of its use of the Wiimote and Nunchuck (a new "thing" in gaming, like 3d stuff was at ps1's launch). In, say, eighteen months, a game with that sort of control won't be hailed in any way like Red Steel, simply because it will have been done for eighteen months already. Do you see the connection?



That's purely speculation, and in the context of this discussion, quite pointless.



More pure speculation, and equally as pointless.



We never proved that. The pattern we established was one of highly advertised games getting higher reviews than they deserve. Also, for the bajillionth time, popularity doesn't equal quality. We're not talking about FFVII's popularity here. We all know how popular FFVII was. We're trying to discuss its quality.



LoL, that post was a pain to work through!



Shenanigians. First you play the thug card, with "bullet in the brain" nonsense, now you're going know-it-all on us? Please, if you're going to be a know-it-all, at least be relevant.

I thought I backed it up pretty well, but I guess not. Its important for rpgs because they dont have a strong following like other genres. Its important for the genre to expand in order to bring in new gamers. But before FF7 the genre was pretty lacking as far as a mainstream following goes. As for remakes, we usually dont see to many dramatic changes. It seems rather popular to actually port games rather than remake them. Its simple for the to make alot of money off of an emulated game. The companies make alot of money off of older ports. Hate it or love it, if a FF7 remakes was made with next gen technology as we've seen in the tech demo, it would be HUGE. I dont see why SE hasnt pursued this. But a game like chrono trigger did have a follow up and it was in 3D on the ps1, Chrono Cross. FF7 wasnt the first game to go 3d but wasnt it the first rpg to successfully do so? Sometimes being first isnt too important. Lets say maybe this is a bad example but Michael Jordan. Was he the 1st player in a chicago bulls jersey? Was he the 1st basketball player? No but what has he done for his franchise? What has he done for the sport of basketball? Not saying FF7 is the michael Jordan of games but just using an example of not being the first is not always important to outshine others.

If the point I made was pure specualtion and pointless, so is the whole bribing issue. Notice the word "feel" in my post. I was just stating my opinion.

The issue of games with higher budgets = higher reviews was proved. Advent Rising was used as the example. I also used pokemon dungeon in another post as well as NBA 07 the show.

Assumptions? You're the one blathering about your double-major. The argument you started was perfectly irrelevant, as you were trying to argue stupid semantics. We all get that a TV screen is flat. Seriously.

i didn't blather about it, i used it to back an argument not addressed at YOU

FF7 wasnt the first game to go 3d but wasnt it the first rpg to successfully do so?

Never said it wasn't, and in all honestly, it doesn't matter. Seeing as EVERYTHING ELSE (save SotN) was 3d, sooner or later, there's bound to be a successful entry into just about every genre. You called FFVII a great game, so I've been comparing it to other games when I say stuff like this. The psx had been out for two years before FFVII came around, so it's safe to say that plenty of 3d games were available for at least eighteen months by FFVII's release. Because of that, the fact that FFVII is 3d is completely unimportant.


Not saying FF7 is the michael Jordan of games but just using an example of not being the first is not always important to outshine others.

Except that's exactly what you were saying. MJ was special because he was that freaking good. Many say the best ever. The fact is, FFVII's graphics weren't special. They weren't that freaking good. Definitely not the best ever.


If the point I made was pure specualtion and pointless, so is the whole bribing issue.

Except for two minor details: one, "bribery" was what you came up with to twist the point into something it was not, and two, "we" actually backed up what we said with a pattern.


i didn't blather about it, i used it to back an argument not addressed at YOU

Because claiming something that can't be proven either way (namely your precious double-major) holds all sorts of weight in an interweb forum. It's still shenanagians. You obviously don't like being called out like that, so what are you going to do, threaten to put a bullet in my head? Or are you going to come up with something even more laughable?

If the point I made was pure specualtion and pointless, so is the whole bribing issue. Notice the word "feel" in my post. I was just stating my opinion.

but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort


Because claiming something that can't be proven either way (namely your precious double-major) holds all sorts of weight in an interweb forum. It's still shenanagians. You obviously don't like being called out like that, so what are you going to do, threaten to put a bullet in my head? Or are you going to come up with something even more laughable?


how about i put up a copy of my transcript with photo ID?

but then again you'd just go and say that i altered them in some way...so tell me oh great one, what would you like me to do to curb your assumptions?

gah...again with this accursed blackberry

but then again you'd just go and say that i altered them in some way...

And you talk so much about assumptions? Mr. Pot, there's a call from a Mr. Kettle for you.


so tell me oh great one, what would you like me to do to curb your assumptions?

Sorry use of sarcasm aside, you could try making relevant points for a change and back them up with facts instead of saying, "hey, I've got a double major, so my argument's automatically valid."

Never said it wasn't, and in all honestly, it doesn't matter. Seeing as EVERYTHING ELSE (save SotN) was 3d, sooner or later, there's bound to be a successful entry into just about every genre. You called FFVII a great game, so I've been comparing it to other games when I say stuff like this. The psx had been out for two years before FFVII came around, so it's safe to say that plenty of 3d games were available for at least eighteen months by FFVII's release. Because of that, the fact that FFVII is 3d is completely unimportant.



Except that's exactly what you were saying. MJ was special because he was that freaking good. Many say the best ever. The fact is, FFVII's graphics weren't special. They weren't that freaking good. Definitely not the best ever.



Except for two minor details: one, "bribery" was what you came up with to twist the point into something it was not, and two, "we" actually backed up what we said with a pattern.



Because claiming something that can't be proven either way (namely your precious double-major) holds all sorts of weight in an interweb forum. It's still shenanagians. You obviously don't like being called out like that, so what are you going to do, threaten to put a bullet in my head? Or are you going to come up with something even more laughable?


If the psx was out for 2 yrs, why werent there any good rpgs games before FF7? Square could have simply used 2d sprites agains to make FF7, but for the series to evolve it made the jump to 3d. IMO as a fan of the series, it was important. So lets say if mario 64 never came out, would you be satisfied with bubsy 3d or even earthworm jim? If any series took rpgs into the next gen, I would rather it be the FF series.

I only used MJ as an example to show that you dont have to be the first at what you do to outshine others. FF7 wasnt the 1st 3D game, of course not, but for a ps1 rpg it was although I might be mistaken. The whole "bribery" thing was not brought up by me. I dont thin I was the first one to use that term in this thread. I do have a bad memory though so fell free to read past posts to prove me wrong.

"but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort" Z so why believe the whole FF7 "bribery" speculation? Theres no proof.

And you talk so much about assumptions? Mr. Pot, there's a call from a Mr. Kettle for you.



Sorry use of sarcasm aside, you could try making relevant points for a change and back them up with facts instead of saying, "hey, I've got a double major, so my argument's automatically valid."

i never said that my majors made my arguments valid
i used them as a background reference as to why i made those statements in the first place


"but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort" Z so why believe the whole FF7 "bribery" speculation? Theres no proof.

like Chunky said earlier...there are very strong patterns that suggest this, strong enough to call evidence

About this bribery thing....>>
I've never heard of this until just now....
Hm. I really think that the game is as enjoyable as the reviewers have said....(not all people agree with the reviewers, of course--! You might have a different experience with the game....reviewers are still people.)
But if there actually WAS a bribery....there isn't much we can do.....
If there was proof and evidence, there could be a lawsuit filed....>< But there isn't....


Never said it wasn't, and in all honestly, it doesn't matter. Seeing as EVERYTHING ELSE (save SotN) was 3d, sooner or later, there's bound to be a successful entry into just about every genre.

Humf...! That's like saying, "So what if Watson and Crick were the first to discover the structure of DNA? SOMEONE would eventually have discovered it anyway." And it was true--another woman was only a week behind them (Rosalind Franklin)....But the fact that they came first does matter....
<<

And sorry to bring this up, but I had to say something about this....

Better to worship someone who knows what he's talking about than a shitty game.
I see why you would say that....>>
But I think there are enough people here worshipping Prak.
And that..."shitty game" you're talking about....is something I love. Maybe the game wasn't very impressive to you....maybe I'm not impressive to you.....
I might not be heard, or it might not matter to any of you....
But for those who will listen...I loved this game.

Your opinions matter enough to me...because I feel like I want to reply...I want to see why you guys think the way you do.....
But maybe my opinion...or our opinions....don't matter to you guys.....
Have I been doing the wrong thing...?

Humf...! That's like saying, "So what if Watson and Crick were the first to discover the structure of DNA? SOMEONE would eventually have discovered it anyway." And it was true--another woman was only a week behind them (Rosalind Franklin)....But the fact that they came first does matter....
<<

And sorry to bring this up, but I had to say something about this....

I see why you would say that....>>
But I think there are enough people here worshipping Prak.
And that..."shitty game" you're talking about....is something I love. Maybe the game wasn't very impressive to you....maybe I'm not impressive to you...and maybe Prak is.....
I might not be heard, or it might not matter to any of you....
But for those who will listen...I loved this game.

Your opinions matter enough to me...because I feel like I want to reply...I want to see why you guys think the way you do.....
But maybe my opinion...or our opinions....don't matter enough to you guys.....
Have I been doing the wrong thing...?

???? ummmmm ok lol

"but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort" Z so why believe the whole FF7 "bribery" speculation? Theres no proof.

Seeing as nobody (other than those defending FFVII and twisting the actual argument) accused anybody of bribery, you have a good point. However, the fact is that highly advertised games get better scores than they deserve. We've been over this, and you even helped establish the pattern that backs up that assertion. There may be exceptions, but until you can bring up a larger list of highly advertised games that were underrated, saying "no proof! no proof!" isn't going to get you anywhere.


but for a ps1 rpg it was although I might be mistaken.

Seeing as it was the natural evolution of gaming as a whole, even if it were the first 3d RPG (and I'm not going to argue either way on that), it doesn't matter. Unless FFVII's graphics were head and shoulders above everything else released, which they weren't, your point is useless.


IMO as a fan of the series, it was important.

But once you get past that "I'm a fan" tunnel-vision, it's not important at all.


Humf...!


See the onomatapeia (I never could spell that...) post a page or two back..


That's like saying, "So what if Watson and Crick were the first to discover the structure of DNA? SOMEONE would eventually have discovered it anyway." And it was true--another woman was only a week behind them (Rosalind Franklin)....But the fact that they came first does matter....

Wrong. Seeing as 3d games had been out for nearly two years already (and that's ignoring the 3d titles on SNES and other systems), being the first in a particular genre is pretty much meaningless. If anything, it just shows that as a whole, the genre was behind the times.

Seeing as nobody (other than those defending FFVII and twisting the actual argument) accused anybody of bribery, you have a good point. However, the fact is that highly advertised games get better scores than they deserve. We've been over this, and you even helped establish the pattern that backs up that assertion. There may be exceptions, but until you can bring up a larger list of highly advertised games that were underrated, saying "no proof! no proof!" isn't going to get you anywhere.



Seeing as it was the natural evolution of gaming as a whole, even if it were the first 3d RPG (and I'm not going to argue either way on that), it doesn't matter. Unless FFVII's graphics were head and shoulders above everything else released, which they weren't, your point is useless.



But once you get past that "I'm a fan" tunnel-vision, it's not important at all.


Its a businesss thing. The companies usually put more money into a product they are faithful in. Thus games they put more money in are better because they are just made to be better games. A better team is assembled, they have better resources, so thats why a better games is usually produced. Of course with some exceptions. I really dont have to much time right now to get a longer list of games, maybe I will sometime this week. But I gave advent rising, nba 07, pokemon dungeon, well almost every pokemon out lol, even a game like mortal kombat armageddon which had mixed reviews and was heavily marketed.

Lets list games that were released prior to FF7 and compare graphics.

See the onomatapeia (I never could spell that...) post a page or two back..

I type how I talk. >>
I don't want to try to make myself sound more intelligent than I really am, and I'm not trying to hide anything from you guys, either. =]

....
But are you saying FFVII did NOT put RPGs into the mainstream, and it was something else that did?

Lets list games that were released prior to FF7 and compare graphics.

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars

EDIT: More to come when I think of some.

I type how I talk. >>
I don't want to try to make myself sound more intelligent than I really am, and I'm not trying to hide anything from you guys, either. =]

....
But are you saying FFVII did NOT put RPGs into the mainstream, and it was something else that did?

read one of my earlier posts...FFVII was and is in no way "mainstream"...nor are RPGs for that matter

Its a businesss thing. The companies usually put more money into a product they are faithful in.

No proof! No proof! Little poke aside, the point of a business is to make money. If a company can get away creating a...less-than-great product, why would they put forth the time and money to do so? At any rate, your assertion holds far less water than the "highly advertised" assertion that I've been holding to for like, eight pages.


Lets list games that were released prior to FF7 and compare graphics.

Are you serious?

Just to indulge you, here's a quick list: Tekken 2 (about 14 months earlier), RE2 (less than two months after, but FAR better), SotN (about a week prior, and still prettier, other than the atrocious FMV's), and Super Mario RPG. I'll probably come up with more later.

Are you serious?

i think he's pretty serious about this...but Iceberg...why would graphics of pre-ff7 games be an issue?
i'd take the nicely done sprites of ff6 over the michellin-man figures of ff7 any day of the week

No proof! No proof! Little poke aside, the point of a business is to make money. If a company can get away creating a...less-than-great product, why would they put forth the time and money to do so? At any rate, your assertion holds far less water than the "highly advertised" assertion that I've been holding to for like, eight pages.



Are you serious?

If our points hold no water, I guess we are even lol.

Yes I'm serious, list the ps1 games released before FF7.

I didnt like tekken 2 too much. Re2 was a great game IMO, the fmvs were good. Castlevania is a classic but not in 3D so I dont know how much comparison can be made there. Super Mario RPG was good but FF7 was better IMO. Name some more rpgs.

If our points hold no water, I guess we are even lol.

Yes I'm serious, list the ps1 games released before FF7.

okay...he's serious...Tekken 2...release in august of 1995...had better cutscene and in-game graphics than ff7 hands down

*edit in response to iceberg's edit*

I didnt like tekken 2 too much.
buy why didn't you like Tekken 2 that much?...oh...i get it...it had better graphics than ff7 so it's brushed aside...

I didnt like tekken 2 too much. Re2 was a great game IMO, the fmvs were good. Castlevania is a classic but not in 3D so I dont know how much comparison can be made there. Super Mario RPG was good but FF7 was better IMO. Name some more rpgs.

Shenanagians. You wanted to compare graphics. So you blow Tekken 2 off because you "didn't like it." Utter crap. You also never stipulated RPG's in particular. Only after games get brought up that can compare with FFVII do you stipulate. Crap.

read one of my earlier posts...FFVII was and is in no way "mainstream"...nor are RPGs for that matter

I see....

So are you saying FF7 failed in all aspects possible? >>
<<
>>
<<
It did not fail to make me enjoy it! It probably failed for you, but....
...I try to be a "relative" arguer....I want to be open to all the people I talk to.

Oh--
Here's a list of RPGs released the same year as FF7 (Console RPGs):

Atelier Marie (PS1)
Breath of Fire III (PS1)
Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon (PS1)
Dark Law (SNES)
Final Fantasy IV (PS1) (Port)
Final Fantasy VII (PS1)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1)
Front Mission 2 (PS1)
Ganparu (SNES)
Grandia (SAT)
Gunman's Proof (SNES)
Mahou Gakuen Lunar (SAT)
Milandra (SNES)
Princess Crown (SAT)
SaGa Frontier (PS1)
Samurai Shodown RPG (PS1, SAT)
Shining Force III (SAT)
Shining the Holy Ark (SAT)
Tactics Ogre (PS1) (Port)
Tales of Destiny (PS1)
Vandal Hearts (SAT)

And the console RPGs released the year before (1996):
Adventures of Hourai High (SNES)
Airs Adventure (SAT)
Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean (SAT)
Arabian Nights (SNES)
Arc The Lad II (PS1)
Bahamut Lagoon (SNES)
Bakumatsu Korinden Oni (SNES)
Blazing Heroes (SAT)
Blue Forest Monogatari (3DO)
Dai Kaijuu Monogatari 2 (SNES)
Dark Half (SNES)
Deception (video game) (PS1)
Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu (SNES)
Gulliver Boy (SNES)
King's Field II (PS1)
Lennus 2 (SNES)
Linkle Liver Story (SAT)
Madara Saga (SNES)
Madou Monogatari (SNES)
Monstania (SNES)
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (SAT) (Port)
Oukoku no Gran Chef (3DO)
Persona (PS1)
Pok&#233;mon Red and Blue (GB)
Star Ocean (SNES)
Super Mario RPG (SNES)
Sword & Sorcery (SAT)
Sword of Hope II (GB)
Traverse: Starlight & Prairie (SNES)
Treasure Hunter G (SNES)
Treasure of the Rudras (SNES)
Vandal Hearts (PS1)
Wild Arms (PS1)
Wizardry Gaiden IV (SNES)

FMV-wise, I think FFVII did a beautiful job....
Real-time renders contain divided opinions....Some people believe that the real-time models are effective, and set the "feel" of the game well....others found the real-time models offensive >>

I think what defines graphics as "good" isn't really the technology and programming behind it....I think good graphics in a game are able to define and create a mood and setting that the developers wished....
That's why....as outdated, technology-wise, some SNES graphics are...the graphics still are wonderful. Many of the SNES games had graphics that fit with the game nearly perfectly....=]

Shenanagians. You wanted to compare graphics. So you blow Tekken 2 off because you "didn't like it." Utter crap. You also never stipulated RPG's in particular. Only after games get brought up that can compare with FFVII do you stipulate. Crap.

x2


I see....

So are you saying FF7 failed in all aspects possible? >>
<<
>>
<<
It did not fail to make me enjoy it! It probably failed for you, but....
...I try to be a "relative" arguer....I want to be open to all the people I talk to.



i never said that it failed in all aspects possible...just that it failed in becoming mainstream by definition

okay...he's serious...Tekken 2...release in august of 1995...had better cutscene and in-game graphics than ff7 hands down


buy why didn't you like Tekken 2 that much?...oh...i get it...it had better graphics than ff7 so it's brushed aside...

I didnt like tekken 2 because Im not into button mashers. IMO the graphics in tekken were meh. So please ask before you assume.


Chunky I was actually on my way to youtube to see fmvs from all games to compare. Just didnt want to to wait to respond. Ill watch heroes and try to reply after lol. If not Ill definitley do so tommorow afternoon.

I didnt like tekken 2 because Im not into button mashers. IMO the graphics in tekken were meh. So please ask before you assume.


Chunky I was actually on my way to youtube to see fmvs from all games to compare. Just didnt want to to wait to respond. Ill watch heroes and try to reply after lol. If not Ill definitley do so tommorow afternoon.

Tekken is not a button masher game...it may seem that way from all the button mashers that play it...but if you went to tournaments back then, they were in no way button mashing

i never said that it failed in all aspects possible...just that it failed in becoming mainstream by definition.
Oh, ok...>>

Hmm....

FMV-wise, I think FFVII did a beautiful job....
But the real-time renders have divided opinions....Some people believe that the real-time models are effective, and set the "feel" of the game well....others found the real-time models offensive... >>

I think what defines graphics as "good" isn't really the technology and programming behind it....I think good graphics in a game are able to define and create a mood and setting that the developers wished....
That's why....as outdated, technology-wise, some SNES graphics are...the graphics still are wonderful. Many of the SNES games had graphics that fit with the game nearly perfectly....=]

Tekken is not a button masher game...it may seem that way from all the button mashers that play it...but if you went to tournaments back then, they were in no way button mashing

And the graphics weren't "meh." I distinctly remember "whoa" moments watching some of the FMV's. That didn't happen with FFVII.

edit: Anyway, I'm through with this crap. I'm going to watch football.

And the graphics weren't "meh." I distinctly remember "whoa" moments watching some of the FMV's. That didn't happen with FFVII.

edit: Anyway, I'm through with this crap. I'm going to watch football.

Well its reverse for us. You thought meh about FF7 and I thought meh about tekken. Even again :)

Heroes for me, Ill post tommorow.

And the graphics weren't "meh." I distinctly remember "whoa" moments watching some of the FMV's. That didn't happen with FFVII.

edit: Anyway, I'm through with this crap. I'm going to watch football.


i also remember "woah" moments while playing the game itself
football + food + friends = good times

i also remember "woah" moments while playing the game itself
football + food + friends = good times

What game FF7? NICE!!!!! lol

Lol, have fun chunkymunky! XD

<< I've never followed football myself...but so many people have fun while watching it....maybe I'll look into it sometime.....

And I haven't played Tekken 2 myself, so I can't say anything about this...><
I've never really liked fighting games much...they're mostly memorization and how long you can make combo before you have to pull out and block, or things like that....There isn't really any visual lasting "work" that you've done except maybe high scores and your own experience....>> I like seeing my perfect games in RPGs....

What game FF7? NICE!!!!! lol

follow the bread crumbs dude...it was in reference to Tekken =P

Don't mind iceberg, he is a moron.



(watch in his next post he'll make fun of me)

Maybe FF7s graphics were so-so because they never expected the game to have that kind of impact on people, so they didnt try as hard as they could.

And Tekken games rock. I thought Yoshimitsu was one of the coolest,lol.

Maybe FF7s graphics were so-so because they never expected the game to have that kind of impact on people, so they didnt try as hard as they could.

Another half-assed excuse.

That would be a "half-assed excuse" if I were defending the game, right?
I wasnt.
I think was just putting an idea out there for people to fuck around with.

FMV-wise, I think FFVII did a beautiful job....


Nothing against you Norse, but are you quite mad? :shock:

The FMV's in FFVII are clearly the worst of the series considering the time the game was brought out.

I wonder if you remember the one in Junon where Cloud climbs the lightning rod tower to Upper Junon.

In that FMV and others in the game, characters appeared in their field forms with slightly improved graphics. So basically, they were still block people, just better looking ones. Although there are (thankfully) some FMVs where this isn't the case and the characters have proper detail, it's still an unforgiveable flaw.

Contrast the FMVs of FFVII with those of FFVIII and you'll understand how bad those of FFVII are.

I think maybe they used block like characters in some FMVs because they may have beleived it gave the game a retro-feel, like the good old nintendo FFs.

I think nearly anyone who was a die-hard fan of FF7 would have seen the FMVs in 8 and dont need to be told to compare the two. This makes me think of my "half-assed excuse". After the success of 7 they really tried for 8, as they could have for 7.

So where do you stand here Chris? I'm a bit confused.

Are you saying that the FMV's in VII are good because they are retro? Fine, if they were released on a low-graphics console or format, such as the SNES. But as the first to be released on the PS1, surely that would have called for better quality visuals.

Why have FMVs if they aren't going to be the best quality graphics?

I dont think theyre good cause theyre retro, im just trying to get you to see how square may have been thinking. or not thinking,lol.

I don't see why they would make the characters look like overweight block-people. It isn't retro in the least. And even if it was, retro really was not the focus of VII.

But the story was not retro, and because of this that would be the reason to make retro looking graphics. I dont know, I thought it reminded me of nintendo kind of. i thought they looked like blocky midgets in the old ones.

But in the old days, that was the limit. VII had much higher limits. They were just never reached.

Sorry its hard to explain this now, im all distracted by a phone call.
I mean because FF7 was the FF for the new era or w/e, they may have made retro graphics so there was at least one retro element in peoples minds, or so they thought.
I bring all this up as what may have been squares opinions or ideas.
I dont deny the graphics were no good.

But I will restate what I said before: the graphics are by no stretch of the imagination retro.

I guess I thought retro because someone referred to them as short and block like. The nintendo and SNES characters looked short,blocky,stubby,etc...to me.

Nintendo characters were block-like, but so was the environment. VII has fully rendered backrounds, but characters that contrast to make terrible looking scenes. The backrounds alone aren't too bad, but the character polygons are horrendous.

Nothing against you Norse, but are you quite mad?

The FMV's in FFVII are clearly the worst of the series considering the time the game was brought out.

I wonder if you remember the one in Junon where Cloud climbs the lightning rod tower to Upper Junon.
Oh....>>
That's what I was talking about with the in-game models....
Those are also technically FMVs...but the FMVs I referred to were the Disc 1 spoiler, ending FMV, and those types....

I really like the in-game models...>> I thought they were a bit strange and almost repulsive at first, too...but I kind of started liking them after a while.
XP
I've said this earlier...but maybe some people didn't catch it--
I notice that the graphics for FFVII are a sort of hit-miss thing for most people...Some people liked the real-time models, and felt that they set the "feel" of the game well....on the other hand, some found the real-time models offensive... >>

I also agree with Chrissss a bit--I thought that the reason they decided to make the characters blocky was because of the super-deformed style of the older FFs...>> They could have used the battle models instead (the battle models aren't missing elbows and aren't blocky or anything) but they decided not to....So that may have been one of the reasons....

Don't mind iceberg, he is a moron.



(watch in his next post he'll make fun of me)


Notice the lol. I was joking. Who's the moron? *points at Joey

Haha. Not like I am actually reading this series of shitty debates that have been going on for years, but for some reason is now put in the spotlight.

I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.

Over and over.

Haha. Not like I am actually reading this series of shitty debates that have been going on for years, but for some reason is now put in the spotlight.

I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.

Over and over.

i'm guilty as charged...but i tend to post in reaction to others, and only when i feel like i have something to say

But at least this thread is validated by Joey's ZOMG AWESOME presence. :rolleyes:

I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.

Over and over.

>>
I don't know if that was necessary....
But it's nice that you can let us know how above this you are by posting in here and talking about it. XP

EDIT: << Alright, what I just said was hardly necessary too. ><
But...this debate is still going for a reason--there's something that's unresolved....I'm trying to figure out what exactly it is....

Haha. Not like I am actually reading this series of shitty debates that have been going on for years, but for some reason is now put in the spotlight.

I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.

Over and over.

If you think the thread is shit, you just made it worse with a post I dont think too many people, if any will give a shit about.

Haha. Not like I am actually reading this series of shitty debates that have been going on for years, but for some reason is now put in the spotlight.

I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.

Over and over.

If you think iceberg is bad, you're twice the fuckwit by posting here with nothing more than potshots at an easy target. He had his share of bullshit, we called him on it, and discussions start up, and you have to go and take a big dump in it just as the whole issue is about to be settled.

Good God, and I thought only GG4ever would pull such a stupid stunt.

If you think iceberg is bad, you're twice the fuckwit by posting here with nothing more than potshots at an easy target. He had his share of bullshit, we called him on it, and discussions start up, and you have to go and take a big dump in it just as the whole issue is about to be settled.

Good God, and I thought only GG4ever would pull such a stupid stunt.

Easy target? hmmmmm

I am just stating that the past few pages have been nothing but the same shit over and over.

Nothing against iceberg325, he is actually an ok guy and all but this thread is shit and should have died a long time ago.

I never said I was above anybody for my last post.

But thank you all for dedicating this twenty-third page of such a thread to none other than me.

I am just stating that the past few pages have been nothing but the same shit over and over.

Nothing against iceberg325, he is actually an ok guy and all but this thread is shit and should have died a long time ago.

I never said I was above anybody for my last post.

But thank you all for dedicating this twenty-third page of such a thread to none other than me.


I think if it were that bad, it would have been closed a while back. Im an ok guy? So what was the moron comment about?

What a horrible debating issue.

Like I said I dont care much for the topic.
I just like to poke fun at the person who would create such a thread.

I meant no offense by it. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Like I said I dont care much for the topic.
I just like to poke fun at the person who would create such a thread.

I meant no offense by it. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.


Indeed you hurt my feelings. So much that I actually had to set up some therapy appointments. YOU BASTARD!!!!!

I think if it were that bad, it would have been closed a while back. Im an ok guy? So what was the moron comment about?

Mods don't close threads unless there's a very compelling reason to. Stupid thread topics that are debated don't get closed.

gamespot reviews blows smoke out my ass

As do people who revive threads for no good reason.

Yeah, mods don't necessarily close threads just because they're stupid or even just because they've turned into generally pointless arguments. But reviving a thread that was over and year and that was getting stupid in the first place just to post a lame one-liner? Yeah, that'll do it...