Please do not use this thread for the sharing of scanned sheets.
On a selfish note:
As an aspiring engraver/publisher myself, I’d be very interested to gauge opinion on where to focus my efforts in the coming months. I’m at a point in my current workload where I’m looking for my next big project, so am open to suggestion!
I’ve noticed on previous threads that there’s an appetite for complete score editions, like those produced by Omni, but that these can be prohibitively expensive to buy (particularly when you add on postage). So….a few short questions:
1/ Are you interested in (fully licensed and engraved/typeset) study scores of complete movie scores?
2/ Are you interested in scores with instrumental parts sets for concert pieces (single cues/suites)?
3/ If you could choose a currently unpublished score, name the top 3 movies scores you’d be interested in buying.
4/ If a single cue or suite of cues were available for performance, which would you most be interested in buying?
5/ If there were a series focusing on one composer (a la John Williams Signature Editions – Hal Leonard), who would you most like to see?
6/ Excluding shipping, what’s a suitable/affordable price point for Complete Score study scores? (Assume these would be several hundred pages, all fully engraved and edited to a professional standard).
2/ No
3/ Jerry Goldsmith: Star Trek the Motion Picture; John Williams: Star Wars; John Williams: The Empire Strikes Back
4/ I would generally advise you avoid this approach because for an orchestra to perform a work means they have to hire a work and submit performance details to the performing rights organization. They aren’t going to be interested in performing something they don’t have the rights to perform. The rental fee allows them the performance right so I really don’t see a market for performance material of non-published works.
5/ John Williams, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith
6/ $25 to 50. The reason why Omni is worth more is those are authentic and approved by the composer (or estate) so you are getting a very high quality product created by industry professional(s). But in your case this is more of a passion project/hobby so might have mistakes, is not authorized, it is a fan product. But if the product is of pro standards as you state and of a very rare holy grail item I would be willing to spend $100.
A few comments from me:
3/ Jerry Goldsmith: Star Trek the Motion Picture; John Williams: Star Wars; John Williams: The Empire Strikes Back
A tough ask for licensing due to being some of the biggest IP’s out there, plus Hal Leonard are notoriously fierce in the defense of their exclusive right to publish John Williams’ music. It’ll probably never see the light of day, but I’m about 25% of the way through Episode IV as a personal "proof of concept" project at the moment, and another member on here is working on Episode V. We’d love to bring you the whole saga one day if there’s any way to do it legitimately!!
4/ I would generally advise you avoid this approach because for an orchestra to perform a work means they have to hire a work and submit performance details to the performing rights organization. They aren’t going to be interested in performing something they don’t have the rights to perform. The rental fee allows them the performance right so I really don’t see a market for performance material of non-published works.
In fact rental fees do not give you the right to perform. You still have to pay (for example in the UK to PRS) for that if the piece is still in copyright. In the case of the orchestra I play in, it’s covered by the venue’s license and we’re recharged for any additional costs when they submit our programme.
6/ $25 to 50. The reason why Omni is worth more is those are authentic and approved by the composer (or estate) so you are getting a very high quality product created by industry professional(s). But in your case this is more of a passion project/hobby so might have mistakes, is not authorized, it is a fan product. But if the product is of pro standards as you state and of a very rare holy grail item I would be willing to spend $100.
Whilst I appreciate that asking opinion here might not seem desperately professional (call it "market research"!!), the products I produce are of the highest quality and at least on a par with those produced by Omni. Any release would be fully licensed from and approved by the copyright holder(s).
I’m able to work very quickly and to a very high degree of accuracy. I certainly wouldn’t put a wrong note in the tune…..(looking at you Hal Leonard John Williams Signature Edition Jurassic Park Theme)!!!
I assume you mean the more recent titles, but in case not; I’m pretty sure I have MIDI files of the original Warcraft RTS soundtrack that could be easily worked up into proper scores.
2/ Not really. Mostly just interested in studying.
3/ Batman Returns (Elfman), Interview With The Vampire (Goldenthal), Aliens (Horner)
4/ Not interested in performance.
5/ Top 3 would be: Elfman, James Newton Howard, Alan Silvestri
6/ I think $75 – $100 is in the pocket and consistent with other large orchestral scores you can purchase (Boosey, UE, Omni etc). You might be able to get more depending on the edition, but I would guess most of those interested in these scores may have limited resources and you might price out too many potential buyers.
I really hope you are able to get this off the ground. I’m grateful for the digital shares we had in the previous thread, but I always prefer hard copies whenever possible. I actually paid $160 in copying/binding fees for two copies of "The Mummy Returns" when a friend obtained access to one of the production scores. I’ve purchased all of the Omni Scores and I’m sure you would have my business as well. Good luck!
2/ Not really. Mostly just interested in studying.
3/ Batman Returns (Elfman), Interview With The Vampire (Goldenthal), Aliens (Horner)
4/ Not interested in performance.
5/ Top 3 would be: Elfman, James Newton Howard, Alan Silvestri
6/ I think $75 – $100 is in the pocket and consistent with other large orchestral scores you can purchase (Boosey, UE, Omni etc). You might be able to get more depending on the edition, but I would guess most of those interested in these scores may have limited resources and you might price out too many potential buyers.
I really hope you are able to get this off the ground. I’m grateful for the digital shares we had in the previous thread, but I always prefer hard copies whenever possible. I actually paid $160 in copying/binding fees for two copies of "The Mummy Returns" when a friend obtained access to one of the production scores. I’ve purchased all of the Omni Scores and I’m sure you would have my business as well. Good luck!
Thanks for your reply SuperForce! I’d definitely be up for doing those scores if I could get hold of the originals. I think once I get up and running and have some funds coming in, I’ll be able to pursue permission from copyright holders to obtain scans from JKMS (I’ve never seen those 3 floating around). Until then I’m limited to those I already have (which is still quite enough to be getting on with!!).
Your pricing range seems on par with what I’m expecting most to say, and compares with Omni. The tricky part will be balancing that against the licensing and printing costs (spread over the print run) to still make a modest profit (which would fund the next project’s licensing costs)! In my experience, licensing fees haven’t been tooooo onerous, but if I need to obtain scans from JKMS then you’re talking big money as they charge a pretty hefty fee per page!
Thoughts?
I really admire what OMNI has done with publishing scores – they look so professional and they’re such a great tribute to fans!
1/ Are you interested in (fully licensed and engraved/typeset) study scores of complete movie scores?
Definitely! If these music scores that were being shared online before were available for purchase, I’m sure there would be buyers and collectors.
2/ Are you interested in scores with instrumental parts sets for concert pieces (single cues/suites)?
Not really interested in parts, just engraved orchestra scores. Alernatively, a published piano-conductor score would be nice!
3/ If you could choose a currently unpublished score, name the top 3 movies scores you’d be interested in buying.
Beauty and the Beast (1991), Aladdin and The Hunchback of Notre Dame
4/ If a single cue or suite of cues were available for performance, which would you most be interested in buying?
Would be interested to purchase cues of the underscore – scores of the songs are easy to find and already published.
5/ If there were a series focusing on one composer (a la John Williams Signature Editions – Hal Leonard), who would you most like to see?
Alan Menken
6/ Excluding shipping, what’s a suitable/affordable price point for Complete Score study scores? (Assume these would be several hundred pages, all fully engraved and edited to a professional standard).
$150
Regarding the discussion of a "definitive" score, I think it would be good to have something published which accurately represents the final cut of the film. There’s always going to be lots of debate over inserts, alternates, revisions etc. and it would get quite exhausting to try to represent them all so I would say "definitive".
Yes, definitely!
2/ Are you interested in scores with instrumental parts sets for concert pieces (single cues/suites)?
No, I’m not
3/ If you could choose a currently unpublished score, name the top 3 movies scores you’d be interested in buying.
Wow, this is quite difficult to answer. I’d say Casper (James Horner), Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (John Williams) and Conan the Barbarian (Basil Poledouris), but ther is a bunch of scores I’d be really interested in buying if I had the chance and the money.
4/ If a single cue or suite of cues were available for performance, which would you most be interested in buying?
I’m not really interested in performing them really.
5/ If there were a series focusing on one composer (a la John Williams Signature Editions – Hal Leonard), who would you most like to see?
I think Jerry Goldsmith
6/ Excluding shipping, what’s a suitable/affordable price point for Complete Score study scores? (Assume these would be several hundred pages, all fully engraved and edited to a professional standard).
If it’s a professional edition/engraving, I’d say between $60-80. However, with a postage rate to Europe from the US it can become quite expensive – I had to pay $150 for Omni’s Total Recall.
On the other hand, if it’s a fan-made product, I’d say between $20-40.
———- Post added at 07:07 AM ———- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ———-
Yes, definitely!
No, I’m not
Wow, this is quite difficult to answer. I’d say Casper (James Horner), Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (John Williams) and Conan the Barbarian (Basil Poledouris), but ther is a bunch of scores I’d be really interested in buying if I had the chance and the money.
I’m not really interested in performing them really.
I think Jerry Goldsmith
If it’s a professional edition/engraving, I’d say between $60-80. However, with a postage rate to Europe from the US it can become quite expensive – I had to pay $150 for Omni’s Total Recall.
On the other hand, if it’s a fan-made product, I’d say between $20-40.
When I put dollars I was thinking in euros, so when I said $60-80 it would be €60-80, that is like $70-100
No, I’m not
Wow, this is quite difficult to answer. I’d say Casper (James Horner), Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (John Williams) and Conan the Barbarian (Basil Poledouris), but ther is a bunch of scores I’d be really interested in buying if I had the chance and the money.
I’m not really interested in performing them really.
I think Jerry Goldsmith
If it’s a professional edition/engraving, I’d say between $60-80. However, with a postage rate to Europe from the US it can become quite expensive – I had to pay $150 for Omni’s Total Recall.
On the other hand, if it’s a fan-made product, I’d say between $20-40.
———- Post added at 07:07 AM ———- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ———-
When I put dollars I was thinking in euros, so when I said $60-80 it would be €60-80, that is like $70-100
Hehe thanks for the clarification. I’m going to be meeting with a local printer in the near future to discuss finishes/bindings/run costs, so hope to have a better handle on pricing (aka my budget!) soon. I’m not expecting to make any great profit, but can’t afford to run at a loss. Costs will be printing, plus licence fees. I don’t expect (at least at first) to take anything for my time, so really it’s "rough RRP minus printing costs equals licensing budget"!!!
I’ve noticed on previous threads that there’s an appetite for complete score editions, like those produced by Omni, but that these can be prohibitively expensive to buy (particularly when you add on postage). So….a few short questions:
1/ Are you interested in (fully licensed and engraved/typeset) study scores of complete movie scores?
2/ Are you interested in scores with instrumental parts sets for concert pieces (single cues/suites)?
3/ If you could choose a currently unpublished score, name the top 3 movies scores you’d be interested in buying.
4/ If a single cue or suite of cues were available for performance, which would you most be interested in buying?
5/ If there were a series focusing on one composer (a la John Williams Signature Editions – Hal Leonard), who would you most like to see?
6/ Excluding shipping, what’s a suitable/affordable price point for Complete Score study scores? (Assume these would be several hundred pages, all fully engraved and edited to a professional standard).
1) Of course
2) No
3) Well, I ‘d be interested more in John Williams but I understand it’s very difficult.
Other than that: Batman Returns, Conan the Barbarian, Krull
4) really can’t choose
5) Jerry Goldsmith
6) $60 tops (with shipping and customs it will be double for me)
On another note:
Does anyone think we will have any published The post sheet music?
I ahd sent a message to Hal Leonard but they hadn’t had anything in the pipeline.
Hi filmcomposer, thanks for your feedback. I’d be interested to know where abouts in the world you are so I can look at shipping/customs.
Doing a full score on a sub-$60 budget may prove to be very challenging if not impossible. I’m currently working on an 800+ page score. If you think of the material costs of printing that alone, then throw in labour (assuming I get them printed professionally rather than doing a "best possible" job on my own) you could be approaching that amount before you’ve even considered the accompanying licence fee (which admittedly would be shared equally between the number of copies allowed in the licence).
I’m going to be speaking to a local printer in the near future to discuss potential formats and finishes. I may be able to offer a kind of "standard" and "premium" edition to help those on a tighter budget, but I definitely have a personal "high bar" of offering a "no compromises/super deluxe/best possible" format/finish that fans would be proud to own these even if they can’t read music!
"Score only" options are available, as well as parts sets. They are:
PRELUDE from PSYCHO (Bernard Herrmann) – Digital only (Score and Parts – link here (https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/prelude-from-psycho-digital-sheet-music/20771946?ac=1))
OVERTURE from LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (Maurice Jarre) – Physical Sheets (Score Only, or Score and Parts)
Both were engraved (by me) from scans of the originals and are performance ready.
The Herrmann is expected to be the first in a collection of cues/suites/full scores for that composer. (Effectively a "Signature Edition much like the JW one from Hal Leonard but also including full scores).
If you know of any orchestras/string groups/film music enthusiasts who might like to play/study this please pass on the link. Any purchases between 23rd July – 14th September count towards my entry into the ArrangeMe contest!!
So….the Lawrence of Arabia licence is all set to go, and just waiting on me to set quantities so I’d appreciate a heads up if anyone would be interested. The retail prices would be:
Score Only (physical copy): �7.50 (approx. $9.87 USD)
Score and Parts set (physical copy): �45 (approx. $59.24 USD)
Digital copies were not allowed (though I tried) on this occasion.
Anyone interested in buying a copy?
BTW, congrats man – good job getting this out there!
BTW, congrats man – good job getting this out there!
Thanks, it’s hopefully the first of many!
Score size is A3 (297 x 420 mm or 11.7 x 16.5 in)
Parts are A4 (half the above)
Where appropriate I’m getting new scans with permission, audio transcribing, a mix of both etc. I’ve had no issue with licensing (other than time, getting "noticed" and money up front – which is a real killer). Essentially anything which isn’t John Williams or Disney is feasible for the right price if you can trace the current rights holder.
For example it’s taken about 6 weeks to get the Lawrence of Arabia licenses from Faber and Hal Leonard to cover worldwide distribution, but they’re in place now aside from agreeing the quantities for the print run. The cost is on average 15-20% of the RRP UP FRONT, so lets say I’m selling at $50 and want to license 100 copies, that’s a $750-1,000 investment up front with no guarantee of breaking even on sales, let alone printing costs and labour hours.
All of the cues listed in my current "poll" are already pre-authorised for small ensemble arrangements, suggesting that licensing them for full orchestra by special arrangement is very possible.
As to "purpose", I would like to provide score and parts sets so they can be performed by orchestras/ensembles who otherwise would not have access to, at a cost they can afford. I also intend to sell the score on its own for those who are just interested in studying/reading along with the music or whatever reason.
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That’s from The Dark Knight!
Hehe give that man a gold star!
I kinda couldn’t wait to get my teeth into some of the cues in that poll list, so I just went ahead and started a few! This is "Like A Dog Chasing Cars", as H0 said, from The Dark Knight.
Some other news:
Lawrence of Arabia Overture – licence for publication and distribution to everywhere except US & Canada secured. Will be on sale on my website very soon, but am hanging fire for a few days while I chase down the new company who control the US & Canada rights. It was Hal Leonard and things were progressing very smoothly, then all of a sudden they passed to a new company I’d never heard of, and they’re not answering me……yet!
Battlestar Galactica (recent version) – 3 pieces in the works so far, the first of which is complete and ready to upload to SMP – Battlestar Sonatica for Solo Piano. The remaining 2; Allegro, and Passacaglia for String Quartet/Quintet are almost complete.
The Dark Knight – Like A Dog Chasing Cars, score is done, parts need markings adjusting to avoid clashes etc. Should be ready soon.
Mission: Impossible – As this came out top or near top in the poll, I’ll be looking at doing a number of cues from the TV series and movies. Watch this space!
Predator – Almost as above, except this is more of a "because I want to" project.
Psycho – Suite, score done, parts need adjusting. Should be up on SMP soon (Sept). Complete score – I know there’s a typeset version out there already, but I want to release one "legitimately" and SMP have provided the platform for me to do that. I’ve had a really positive response to the Prelude, and will likely be doing more Herrmann and other classic scores from that era in the coming months.
I think that’s enough to contend with for now!!
2. Unless you’re able to market them to orchestras, that seems like overkill.
3. The Lord of the Rings (Shore), The Cell (Shore), Apollo 13 (Horner)
4. Death Is the Road to Awe (Mansell – The Fountain), a suite of the second act of Patton (Goldsmith)
5. Howard Shore
6. I think Omni’s pricing is pretty realistic when you consider the cost of orchestral pieces. For a truly professional, licensed work, depending on the length, I think $60-$120 is pretty fair.
7. As for "definitive" vs. "original," my vote would be to pick a "definitive" version you could listen along to with references to an appendix containing alternates/original versions/etc.
2. Unless you’re able to market them to orchestras, that seems like overkill.
3. The Lord of the Rings (Shore), The Cell (Shore), Apollo 13 (Horner)
4. Death Is the Road to Awe (Mansell – The Fountain), a suite of the second act of Patton (Goldsmith)
5. Howard Shore
6. I think Omni’s pricing is pretty realistic when you consider the cost of orchestral pieces. For a truly professional, licensed work, depending on the length, I think $60-$120 is pretty fair.
7. As for "definitive" vs. "original," my vote would be to pick a "definitive" version you could listen along to with references to an appendix containing alternates/original versions/etc.
Hey Monkey, thanks for taking the time to reply.
Here’s a few comments back!
2. Unless you’re able to market them to orchestras, that seems like overkill.
I do plan to. The Psycho is selling well, and more "internationally" than I expected at this early stage with sales in the UK, US, Australia and Japan so far. Lots of interest in the Lawrence of Arabia already too, just trying to push the licensing companies across the line (the deal’s all but done). My main driver for doing the single cues and suites is to get more film music out there for orchestras to play. The complete scores would be more for study/enjoyment. I’d be surprised if they got picked up for doing full "music to picture" concerts, but would be overjoyed if they were.
3. The Lord of the Rings (Shore), The Cell (Shore), Apollo 13 (Horner)
Not sure I’d ever be able to get the rights to LOTR but would be awesome one day! Keep your eyes peeled for Apollo 13 though, that’s on my planner for 2020 (50th anniversary of the real event).
I’ve had a few more poll submissions back (thank you) and am really enjoying the diversity of suggestions in the "anything else" category. Whoever it was who suggested "Mask of the Phantasm" certainly raised an "ooo that would be a good one" from me!! 😀
That would be me. I’d really love to see some Shirley Walker scores, and Batman: The Animated Series is also being remastered and being released on Blu-Ray later this year. It includes Mask of the Phantasm and Subzero movies. The world needs more complete Film Scores like Omni provides, but Television music is even more so left out. If you can publish anything from the DC Animated TV Shows and Films from that era, that would be some great stuff. Batman, Superman, etc.
In regards to your previous questions:
1/ Are you interested in (fully licensed and engraved/typeset) study scores of complete movie scores?
Yes.
2/ Are you interested in scores with instrumental parts sets for concert pieces (single cues/suites)?
If they are arranged by the composer for the concert stage, then sure.
3/ If you could choose a currently unpublished score, name the top 3 movies scores you’d be interested in buying.
Besides Phantasm, Any classic MGM musical, Ben-Hur, How to Train Your Dragon 2
4/ If a single cue or suite of cues were available for performance, which would you most be interested in buying?
Anything from an MGM musical, the above suggestion from Patton is also nice.
5/ If there were a series focusing on one composer (a la John Williams Signature Editions – Hal Leonard), who would you most like to see?
Shirley Walker, of course! Additional daydreams include Alexander Courage, Jerry Goldsmith, Ron Jones, Mikl�s R�zsa, Danny Elfman, Alan Menken.
6/ Excluding shipping, what’s a suitable/affordable price point for Complete Score study scores? (Assume these would be several hundred pages, all fully engraved and edited to a professional standard).
$80
I was struggling to find a local printer that could spiral bind on the long edge of A3 at a reasonable price (or even do it at all), and ended up buying a punching machine from the US and getting it shipped to the UK. May seem like a false economy but apparently buying one directly in the UK is either impossible or prohibitively expensive! Anyway long story short I got all the supplies sorted and thought I’d have a little play last night. I have to say that I’m really happy with the results! (See link for photos because I can’t seem to upload them here!)
https://www.facebook.com/chrissiddallmusic/posts/279616885996085
http://www.chrissiddallmusic.com/store/p44/Overture_from_LAWRENCE_OF_ARABIA_-_Maurice_Jarre.html
Score & Parts Set here:
http://www.chrissiddallmusic.com/store/p43/Overture_from_LAWRENCE_OF_ARABIA_-_Maurice_Jarre.html
Coming up later this month; 2 pieces from Bear McCreary’s Battlestar Galactica score, a new piano arrangement from Anastasia, score from Moulin Rouge and a new addition to the Bernard Herrmann Collection that’s "out of this world"!!
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/publishers/chris-siddall-music-publishing-sheet-music/3009952
2 No
3 L.A. Confidential by Jerry Goldsmith, The Shawshank Redemption by Thomas Newman, Dances with Wolves by John Barry.
4 L.A. Confidential
5 Thomas Newman
6 Up to OMNI pricing
Wow I can’t believe it’s been so long since I updated this thread. Busy busy!!
I’ve been working on a bunch of cues, some arrangements and some transcriptions (licensed) and started pushing more news out via my Facebook page (www.facebook.com/chrissiddallmusic) / YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbNEpAhHB7JyCuzd-QJAcWQ). Please subscribe!! I need over 100 subscribers to change that horrible URL!!!
We’re also on Patreon now (https://www.patreon.com/chrissiddallmusic), and just starting to put up content. I’d like to put together a Q&A video for May, so if you have any questions or comments that you’d like to see included please fire away below!
What instruments do you want it arranged for, or do you want a transcription of the original?
Sure, no problem. I’m just finishing up Mask of the Phantasm for @LeftOutside then I’ll get right on it. 🙂
I don’t think you’ll have to wait long…..here’s a little teaser. I’d say that was a fairly productive "lunch break"!!
Rather than replace the previous file, I’ll keep uploading new ones each day so you can track my progress! I tend to average about a page every 20mins/3 pages per hour depending on how busy the music is at that point.
Here are a few short cues I put together recently for your enjoyment. If you like what you see/hear and want to be kept up to date with all the latest news, please head over to our Facebook page: www.facebook.com/chrissiddallmusic
Whilst you’re there, don’t forget to like, comment and subscribe to our YouTube channel! We need to get over 100 subscribers so we can update and change the stupid URL(!) so please help us out!
New tracks:
"The Takeoff" from Memphis Belle – George Fenton – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufjX6DK8EUk
"Shawshank Prison" from The Shawshank Redemption – Thomas Newman – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6LJdpfUx6Q
"Main Title" from Last of the Mohicans – Trevor Jones – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpGylgzNCp4
Have a request for a future video? Let us know what you’d like to see!
YES, ABSOLUTELY!
2/ Are you interested in scores with instrumental parts sets for concert pieces (single cues/suites)?
No, just study scores.
3/ If you could choose a currently unpublished score, name the top 3 movies scores you’d be interested in buying.
James Newton Howard — Signs, Horner — Gorky Park, Goldsmith — Poltergeist
4/ If a single cue or suite of cues were available for performance, which would you most be interested in buying?
Not interested in performance.
5/ If there were a series focusing on one composer (a la John Williams Signature Editions – Hal Leonard), who would you most like to see?
Jerry Goldsmith or James Newton Howard
6/ Excluding shipping, what’s a suitable/affordable price point for Complete Score study scores? (Assume these would be several hundred pages, all fully engraved and edited to a professional standard).
I’d pay between $50-$75 for a full study score. More if it was a movie that was a high priority for me. And…how to put this delicately…not as much if it’s a score that is widely traded in manuscript form.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2XL1LU1Am0jwGvOHZiTJD0DSGhej2DJC
Since the licensing fee is closely tied to the volume of the print run (the size of which is entirely publisher’s choice), it would also be helpful in gauging the size of said required print run.
I’ve had a copyright application to publish one of James Horner’s major scores accepted, and whilst it’s almost a certainty that the interest will be strong, the upfront cost is pretty daunting!!
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