arite im sure all of you more analytical players out there have realized that ff9's greatest theme is existance, and how each character individually undergoes his or her own journey to confirm his/her existance, but zidane and vivi were created without an actual existance, one was an empty vessel and the other one was a clone... what are your thoughts on this?

Well thanks for putting spoilers in without notice...

Personally, I thought it was good thing because it showed that they weren't resigned to their fate, they defied their purpose and were their own person. I thought this showed alot about the strength of will and their personalities. Also Vivi wasn't a clone, he was the first of his type, and zidane wasn't an empty vessel and I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, when discussing the "ingredients" as they so kindly put it for black mages/ special genomes, they both had a soul, which is why they were able to do what they did.

Personally, I thought it was good thing because it showed that they weren't resigned to their fate, they defied their purpose and were their own person. I thought this showed alot about the strength of will and their personalities. Also Vivi wasn't a clone, he was the first of his type, and zidane wasn't an empty vessel and I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, when discussing the "ingredients" as they so kindly put it for black mages/ special genomes, they both had a soul, which is why they were able to do what they did.


well yea, but vessels and clones are how they are portrayed. youre right they do contain souls, but existance isnt measured with whether they have a sould or not

well yea, but vessels and clones are how they are portrayed. youre right they do contain souls, but existance isnt measured with whether they have a sould or not
um... yes it does...

um... yes it does...

no not in this sense... take the black mages for instance, the vast majority of them allowed themselves to be used as puppets, but the ones that woke up from that and formed their own community (black mage village) woke up and made their lives worth living, and found a reason to live outside of blindly killing

no not in this sense... take the black mages for instance, the vast majority of them allowed themselves to be used as puppets, but the ones that woke up from that and formed their own community (black mage village) woke up and made their lives worth living, and found a reason to live outside of blindly killing
that really doesnt back up about what you said about the soul not meaning you are a person...

Yes because before they essentially had no souls, before they were basically unconcious entities whereas they came into pyschological existance once they freed their minds and understood what it means to live.

yea thats what i was getting at.
existance is a very relative statement, and what i mean by existance is finding a reason for yourself as to why you are on this planet. without a reason to live, there is no point in existance, so in essence, existance isnt there. but by all means, dont let my definition of existance get in the way of your opinions

yea thats what i was getting at.
existance is a very relative statement, and what i mean by existance is finding a reason for yourself as to why you are on this planet. without a reason to live, there is no point in existance, so in essence, existance isnt there. but by all means, dont let my definition of existance get in the way of your opinions
you play WAY too much FF dude.

Hahhaha. That was funny as hell. "Don't let my definition of existance blah blah..."

LMAO. Dude how long have you been thinking about this?

FFIX said that existence is given a point through a small bit of individuality and a large portion of unity. Friendship gives our existence meaning. Fight, not for yourself, but for others. Zidane and Vivi might not have had a point to their existences, but they would live and fight on for their friends.

dragoncurry and chewey, both of you have impressed me with your amazing skills in debates, but you both should probably stick to the "whos stronger, cloud or zidane" threads

Okay man I was just joking I am sorry lol. It was just so deep all of a sudden lol.

Vivi's comment that "How do you prove we exist? Maybe we don't exist at all." becomes answered by Zidane when Zidane tells him that "We all have our own paths and we are all searching for answers" goes to show us that the characters are constantly trying to prove their existence. Quina does it by hunting for food, Zidane does it by helping others, Garnet does it by trying to be true to herself etc etc. I think that each of their quotes tells us what each character does to find out why they continue to live.

I think that Vivi's purpose is to raise these questions and show us how a 'lifeless' soul can question the things we take for granted.

Again I apologize Terra child I was just haveing a bit of fun.

dragoncurry and chewey, both of you have impressed me with your amazing skills in debates, but you both should probably stick to the "whos stronger, cloud or zidane" threads
you'll have trouble finding a single one of my posts in those threads. Your perspective on existance is based purely on FF and i found that humerous.

humorous**

you'll have trouble finding a single one of my posts in those threads. Your perspective on existance is based purely on FF and i found that humerous.

my definition of existance has little to nothing to do with final fantasy, the whole point of this thread was to get an actual original topic in the ff9 threads, cuz lately, theyve really sucked...

Alright then raise some more points so I can argue with them terra.

look this is what i think

they were given souls but expected to follow orders and never question it but your soul is who you are . you cant deny who you are. but the thing is no one is born with a soul, it is something you create with your choices in life. if the other genomes had been told they had souls ,they could have ended up like zidane. you create a soul . a soul is not created for you.

think about it and it will make sense