this has been pissing me off for long enough so im gonna get to the bottom of it.....which console has the best game's ?!?!

playstation 2

gamecube

xbox

start voting!!!

(edited poll to remove bias :p)

For a long, long, long time i've been an advocate of the PS2 - probably because it's the only console i've got. And sure, if I could only have one out of the three, i'd choose the PS2.

But it's the games that make the console - I bought a PS2 because it was the console that Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid were all moving to.

However, with top notch games like Twin Snakes on Nintendo's Cube, and Knights of the Old Republic (the. best. star wars game. EVER.) on the Xbox, the distinction is wavering.

Now i'm just glad whenever one of the good developers (Square Enix, KCEJ, SCEJ, Bioware, Silicon Knights...) releases an A-grade game.

No matter what console.

I absolutely love owning all the main consoles. Not only can I play any game that comes out, but when stuff is released multi-platform, I can decide which controls I'd rather play it with.

If I had to pick one though, I'd go with PS2 simply because it's my means of playing FFXI right now, and I'm too addicted to miss out on it now.

Colecovision

No console beats colecovision! It's the only system I can play smurfs on, and I love the smurf game, much better than that ET game. Pfffft at the ET game!

Its the PS2 for me. Good graphics, controllers and plenty of games for it and more still to come until the PS3 comes out.

I think that the XBox would by FAR be the console of choice if it had the same oppurtunities that PS2 had. Instead there are games (FF, Gran Turismo etc.) that are strictly Sony games therefore making it hard to judge which system is actually the best. Statistically, Xbox. Favorite, PS2.

I still laugh when my mate puts on Project Gotham Racing 2 for his Xbox and the thing crashes when he's trying to load up a track for us all to play... Microsoft can't even make a console that doesn't crash every now and then.

But I digress.

I own a PS2, much like everyone else because I wanted to play certain games. (FFX, MGS2, GT3.) The fact it's backwards compatible with my PSX games is only an extra incentive, because the laser in my PSX is getting a bit on the knackered side and so it's good to have this backup.

Plus I only need one console to play both sorts of games now.

Whatever console you own is good

Stop going "my toy's better than your toy" ya big babies...

have you noticed how everyone who said ps2 is best said they like it for three game's ff, mgs and gt3?

Originally posted by boogybro87
have you noticed how everyone who said ps2 is best said they like it for three game's ff, mgs and gt3?

*Shrugs.*

I would've added Suikoden 3 to the list, but Europe never got it. I would add Legaia 2 to the list, but I bought that after the fact. I would add Wild Arms 3 to the list as well. I certainly wouldn't add Kingdom Hearts to the list though.

I like them all, really, they all have at least 1 or 2 great games. ;D

But what udo/duo said, 1 or 2 good games...

Yeah, XBOX has ONE good game..and thats about it for there games history.

I've gone for a PS2 as thats the only one I own. But I have taken a shine to the Gamevube, eversince I managed to convince my friend Dave to buy one, so this way I can just go round his house to play Twin Snakes (which is awesome).

But I'm still very against the XBOX, what can I say I hate Microsoft.

PS2 all the way

Screw X-box and to hell with microsoft
If you are a true game fan you have no business with the X-gay!

Originally posted by boogybro87
which console has the best game's ?!?!

That would be the Sony Playstation 2.

Notice how it has a lot of good games, yes, including FF, GT and MGS but also the 'multi- format' games, which PS2 seems to get before eveyone else, eg GTA, Timesplitters, MOH etc.

And I dislike the X-Box, mainly because it's big and not clever. And Microsoft own it, so it must be rubbish.

Well, if you look at it from a specs point of view, the X-Box owns them all, no doubt.

But it's all in the games you like.


Now, seeing as this is a Final Fantasy forum, there are bound to be many FF lovers here.

And since Final Fantasy is mainly on PS2 ...

I can honestly say I have a good idea on which console will win the poll.


Anyway...

I have a PS2 and a GameCube. There are more games I like on PS2 but some games I like are exclusive on Cube. So I guess I'm happy with the two of them. :)

I believe many people do not like the Gamecube because of one reason: They feel it is a kiddie system

I mean, there are more violent and M-rated games on PS2 and Xbox, so that is one reason. And people nowadays love to see violence

If you look at it, Gamecube has a lot of really good games. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker is a fabulous game, even though the game itself has "kiddie and cartoonish" graphics. But thats what made the game unique and outstanding.

I vote Gamecube because of the amount of great games exclusive to the console. You have....

Metroid Prime, The Wind Waker, Resident Evil 4, SSBM, Mario Kart: DD!, F-Zero GX, MGS: Twin Snakes, Resident Evil 0, Skies of Arcadia Legends, and Super Mario Sunshine

That is the one thing that makes Gamecube unique. Its exclusitivity to games like these

And more games coming to Gamecube include...

Metroid Prime 2, Paper Mario 2, Pikmin 2, Star Fox 2, and a sequel to The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

If Final Fantasy came back to Nintendo like it once was, then Gamecube would probably surpass PS2 as the top selling system. But as long as FF is exclusively for Sony, I doubt that will happen

So I vote Gamecube since I feel there are more great games on this system than any other

And I counted two good games for Xbox: Halo, and Star Wars: KOTR.

EDIT: I no longer believe Wind Waker is a fabulous game. It is descent at best.

By far PS2. It has a good feeling controler and has more of my favorite games then on any other system. Personaly i hate X-Box due many facts such as having to by a package to play DVDs and that its stealing all the good games from other systems (the only thing i do like about it is the cord). I like Nintendo but lately i beleive it needs to put its act together and start making new games and stop ruining the classics.

Originally posted by zell86
PS2 all the way

Screw X-box and to hell with microsoft
If you are a true game fan you have no business with the X-gay!

if you're a true gaming fan, you own every console so you can play every good game that comes out.

there's so much great stuff on the box- the doa games, halo, crimson skies, deus ex, kotor, armed and dangerous, ninja gaiden.....just to name a few.

I hate microsoft as much as they next person, but I love gaming a lot more then I hate microsoft.

ppl who say gamecube suck's cos it aint got enouh violent game's are idiot's......i mean......there aint anything good about violent, they just want to seem mature by saying it's for kids, when nintendo bring out a game, you just know it's gonna be quality!!!

but your right...lately nintendo have been slipping, they havent been bringing out enough original game's.....i hope that changes soon!

so it seem's ps2 is winning....o well, no biggy!

Originally posted by Ndi


if you're a true gaming fan, you own every console so you can play every good game that comes out.

there's so much great stuff on the box- the doa games, halo, crimson skies, deus ex, kotor, armed and dangerous, ninja gaiden.....just to name a few.

I hate microsoft as much as they next person, but I love gaming a lot more then I hate microsoft.

Yeah I know I just hate X-Box! But I do give it Halo and Crimson Skys. But still...

I like the PlayStation the best. I do own a PS2 but I choose PS over PS2,because I think the PS has better games on it. SNES is kool too. I have the most games for it out of all my other consoles. But now theres GameCube which is more like an Updated version of the SNES. ;p And its really awesome.

I have never played or seen anyone play an XboX before so I dont really know about them.

But Yeah. I like the PS the best. ^_^

If you look at it, Gamecube has a lot of really good games. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker is a fabulous game, even though the game itself has "kiddie and cartoonish" graphics. But thats what made the game unique and outstanding.

Unique?
OUTSTANDING?
The story was weak, the graphics were the only "oustanding" part of the package. The entire thing was built upon holding your hopes up that you may return to hyrule (sp? haven't played in a long time), but you don't. There's too much sailing, and not enough effort put into a cogent storyline or - in turn - a really good game like the ocarina of time.

Oh god, I feel a zelda rant coming on.

yes there is a rant coming on!
you fool!
i should bitch slap you!
yes there was too much sailing in the game!
the storyline was weak?
whats wrogn with you sonny jim?
ahhhh.....someone tell him! im too pissed to talk!

Originally posted by boogybro87
yes there is a rant coming on!
you fool!
i should bitch slap you!
yes there was too much sailing in the game!
the storyline was weak?
whats wrogn with you sonny jim?
ahhhh.....someone tell him! im too pissed to talk!

Ah, actually, he was right :p


The Legend of Zelda never had that much of a storyline. Just the basic one that's in the background. But that's because it doesn't really NEED one.


And, yeah, I ALMOST wanted to quit the game when I had to go back and forth to get the pieces of the Triforce...I mean, how annoying is that ? Way too much sailing.


Of course the graphics and gameplay (which has always been the series' focus) were good.


In the end, Wind Waker was a great game, but I would never have given it all the "10s" it got from reviewers. I mean, come on, it was mainly an Ocarina of Time 2.0 with sailing instead of horseback-riding.


Although I liked it a lot more than Ocarina of Time. I could never stand that game. Why ? 2 things : horrible camera angles and the N64's controller, which is hands down the worst controller of modern video-gaming. At least Wind Waker correctly these two things.


And, let's face it, Zelda needs more than just a graphic rehash. It needs a new and much better storyline. And it needs some new twists as well.

(HUGE sarcasm starting here)

By now we all know how to play every Zelda game :

Get into a dungeon, find a map, compass and an item.

Kill that boss using a combination of your sword and the item you found in the dungeon.

After about 3 dungeons you'll get the Master Sword, which you'll have to upgrade a few times. Yeah.

Repeat steps one and two more or less 7 or 8 times.


Then Kill Ganon who kidnapped Princess Zelda and has one or two-thirds of the Triforce, namely the Power and Wisdom parts. Luckily enough, you have the Courage part, so you are not at all at a disadvantage. Especially since you know that since the very first game on the NES, he can be killed by using some combination of the Magic-Master-whatever the name it is sword and the silver-light- whatever the name it is arrows.

(End of HUGE sarcasm)

I mean, it's not that I dislike the formula, it's just that I'd like it to change, like, just once ? Why not ?

yes you are right the formula is always the same and they should maybe take a different root!

thats the only part i agree on you with!

Of course the graphics and gameplay (which has always been the series' focus) were good.

are you kidding me? never has the zelda series been mainly about
graphic! game play yes so your half right there!


The Legend of Zelda never had that much of a storyline. Just the basic one that's in the background. But that's because it doesn't really NEED one.

now i know your kidding! have you even played through the whole of the zelda games?!? it has better stories then most of the sh�t out there!

most gamers are so inappreciative these day's!
they can play a lame game and say "yeah, its good"
but when they play an outstanding game and they make a sequal/next chapter, you will say its lame cos it doesn't quite live upto the previous when in fact you are just being lazy and missing out on a great game, better then any next gen game so far!

Originally posted by boogybro87



are you kidding me? never has the zelda series been mainly about
graphic! game play yes so your half right there!



Wrong. I'm wholly right. Because my sentence meant the gameplay was the focus. I maybe have misphrased it but since it was part of the whole sarcasm you needn't take it so seriously.


Originally posted by boogybro87


now i know your kidding! have you even played through the whole of the zelda games?!? it has better stories then most of the sh�t out there!



Well, let's see, I beat the two NES games, the SNES one, one of the GB (Link's Awakening, didn't bother with the Oracles), tried the two N64 and finished the GCN one...That's more than enough considering most of the games aren't connected. Indeed, the two NES games are connected. Link's Awakening is connected to Link to the Past. The Two Oracles games are connected, and OoT, MM and WW are connected. But they aren't all connected together. And besides the two NES games the connection between the games if very minor at best. If you wanted to find someone who doesn't know the series, you've picked the wrong guy ;)

And no, the Zelda does NOT have a in-depth storyline. I never said it wasn't a GOOD BASIC one. I said it isn't in-depth enough. Read my posts before you reply to them.


Originally posted by boogybro87

most gamers are so inappreciative these day's!
they can play a lame game and say "yeah, its good"
but when they play an outstanding game and they make a sequal/next chapter, you will say its lame cos it doesn't quite live upto the previous when in fact you are just being lazy and missing out on a great game, better then any next gen game so far!

Oh please...Just because I don't think Wind Waker is the perfect game you believe it is far from makes me a "innapreciative gamer". Especially when I've played a lot more games than you, and especially when you still can't tell it was sarcasm even though I wrote it in caps. I was PLAYING the original Zelda on my NES when I was 7 and when you still were a baby (at least by looking at your profile). So get your facts straight.

Okay, kiddo.
I'm calling you that because of your utter stupidity. You can't string a sentence together, and you don't even know what you're talking about. "Inappreciative" isn't a word.


yes there is a rant coming on!
you fool!
i should bitch slap you!
yes there was too much sailing in the game!
the storyline was weak?
whats wrogn with you sonny jim?
ahhhh.....someone tell him! im too pissed to talk!


Okay...let's just give you a little perspective of who I am. I'm a 17 year old, and I'm 18 this time next week - pretty much accurately. You were born just under a year after me. I have a year on you, and apparently I have about a decade on your writing skill. And please, if you're going to use it, don't say "hahah i dont maek teh effort on bordz!!!!" - that is a tired argument, and I have my defences for it.

Now, as to why, to be fair, my knowledge of games is far greater than you.

I'm a games journalist. I've been working in the field for a few years now, and I was playing the Wind Waker just over a year before it was released, in a private party hosted by Nintendo. I played as much as I could of it there, and then received the game on it's UK release. I had it completed within three days, with everything that could be done, done. I did something similar with the Ocarina of Time, and a Link to the Past/Link's Awakening. I've been playing games for some time before that.

So, please do not talk to me as if I know nothing about games, and that I am unqualified to talk to you about games. Because as you can see, you could even say that you are unqualified, kiddo.


are you kidding me? never has the zelda series been mainly about
graphic! game play yes so your half right there!
Wrong. The Zelda series has been used to celebrate the power of two Nintendo systems in a row - four if you count the GBA and the GBC. The n64 used Ocarina as a showcase, the GC used a Zelda tech demo, the GBC used a demonstration of Link's Awakening in Colour, and last but not least, the GBA was showing a version of Link to the past - this is the only one I'm slightly shaky on, but I'm reasonably sure it was. Correct me if i'm wrong, somebody who knows better.

The Zelda series has always been about getting the best graphical showcase for RPGs around, whether you like it or not.


now i know your kidding! have you even played through the whole of the zelda games?!? it has better stories then most of the sh�t out there!
Evad's probably got better knowledge of Zelda than I do, and I've played through the entire Zelda canon, excluding the sidescrolling one, because that was too painful to struggle through.


most gamers are so inappreciative these day's!
they can play a lame game and say "yeah, its good"

You're calling Evad unappreciative? For what, he's just saying that TWW isn't perfect.


but when they play an outstanding game and they make a sequal/next chapter, you will say its lame cos it doesn't quite live upto the previous when in fact you are just being lazy and missing out on a great game, better then any next gen game so far!
Being lazy?
As I said, I played TWW to death. I don't miss out big releases like that, I try them, and if I like them, or feel I should play through them to see the end, then I do.

And thus, the rant begins. There is a reason that I never talk about the Wind Waker.

The Wind Waker was a horribly underwhelming Zelda game. Consider the fact that this is the first properly next-gen Zelda. Consider that we were shown an amazing technical demonstration of link fighting gandalf that never actually made it into a game at all, and then consider this cartoony game we got thrown at us.

I'll be honest, I was quite excited. I was one of the only people I know who didn't say "EWwWW Cartoony it's going to be lame!" - in fact, I started playing it with a very open mind. I "oo'ed" and "aah'ed" as little graphical flourishes popped up, with the beads of the pig guard's spears paying attention to the terrain. I pointed in awe at the beautiful realtime shadows.

I sighed as I got caught again in another weak Metal Gear Solid sneaking section, and felt frustrated at the amount of needless backtracking through nigh-on-identical pathways. But I struggled on, because I knew there was going to be a strong connection to the Ocarina of Time - "hear that?" I screamed, "A connection in a Zelda game, that's never been done before!" and so on I went, continuing through the puzzles that I had seen in every other Zelda games. I boggled at the utterly ridiculous storyline - "Oh no! I've been attacked by a giant bird! Oh thank god, a talking dragon boat has come to save me. Why? Oh, no reason, I guess it's just destiny."

I giggled as I chucked pigs into the sea, and this became something that I did to give myself entertainment. I pointed at Twizzle, or Tickle, or Twatty, or whatever the little man from Zelda: Majora's Mask was called, and said "Right, he's there, I smell continuity!" and thought, in the very back in my head, "I fucking hope there is, at least."

I plugged in my GBA and said "wow, how useless."

I played a game where I played battleships against a frenchman who shouted "SPLIIIIIIIISH." I laughed at his ridiculous foreign accent, and found myself a sail.

I began sailing.

...

I kept sailing.

Eventually, a half-hearted story reveals itself. I SEE THE DEKU TREE. "HOLY CATS!" I scream, knocking over my merlot and waking my alcoholic father, who threw a chair at me and screamed "Son, cease your blithering, I must return to the jolly roger!"

And thus, my father returned to the high seas of the real world, and I returned to those of the digital.

The Deku tree doesn't exactly do much to bring the two stories together, but gives enough to string along the promise of some sort of continuity.

And so, I complete the classic Zelda triumvate (TM) of quests to receive the three magical...somethings...to unlock the magical...prize. Guess what, it was the master sword. Didn't see that coming. And thus I enter another bloody dungeon, involving water. Oh great. Water. More fucking sailing with my beligerent dragon-boat-asshole-companion. Give me Navi back, please. But I get to the end.

And I'm told that the master sword is almost mine.

Oh my god.

And so I enter "Hyrule." I find out that Hyrule somehow got submerged...for some reason...I forget. Evad tells me that it was because Ganon turned up, and Link didn't, so the king of red lions (that's the king of hyrule) flooded the place, and chose the best people to stay on the surface. How utterly boring, eh. It was so utterly ridiculous that I didn't bother to remember it. OH MY GOD.

You hear the hyrule castle music from Zelda on the SNES.

But anyway, it was. And I find out about the magical sages who kept the master sword's batteries changed, and look at all the stained glass. Pretty. Oh no, all the monsters wake up. That's pretty bad.

So, you have to replace the mastersword's batteries. So, off you go to find the two mystical assholes to fix it up good and proper - the original ones have been killed by...GANONDORF! Duh duh duhHhHhhh. Yeah, didn't see that coming. So, we have the two reasonably good dungeons in the game, and I'm still praying, hoping and praying, that something is going to go amazing and I'm about to find the ocarina of time and everything is gonna be amazing.

Oh, and Zelda's appeared by now, and she's done some stuff with the triforce. Best moment in the game, actually, as when the triforce forms on her hand, it does the same spinning and music from the very beginning of a link to the past. I loved that. I really did. It kept my hopes up and stopped me from crying.

So, I completed these two dungeons, and the master sword's duracells kept on going.

And here is when the game went from "Okay..." to "...:("

I had to pick up the pieces of the triforce from 8 places on the map. But I didn't just get to pick them up. I had to complete 8 seperate MIND NUMBINGLY BORING AND UNORIGINAL MINIQUESTS TO GET THEM.

It was at this point that I heard the minds of nintendo saying "we needed a filler, sorry dude."

There was no end in sight, apart from the promise of returning to Hyrule to kick Ganon's ass.

So, I got my 8 triforce maps.

...

It was then that I found out I had to pay Tiddles or whatever his name was some ungodly sum and buy a timeshare and get him a mailorder bride for each seperate triforce map, because he wanted to charge me MONEY TO SAVE THE WORLD. By now I was pretty beligerent myself, moreso than my dragon boat.

But I got my maps translated from the ancient language of Hyrule. Though I guess I could've just asked the King of Red Lions to read it for me, but that might've been too easy, or he might've died, I don't know.

But either way, I got my maps, and I got my pieces, and I made the triforce.

Now was the denouement. The moment I'd been waiting for. The gates opened. I was in Hyrule.

I witnessed a land that looked nothing like the Ocarina of Time. I witnessed a land that was a lot smaller than I remember. In fact, I witnessed a strip of land that inextricably lead to a big evil looking castle, trapped in a circle of easy monsters and ridiculously happy colours.

The game laughed.

I did not.

It was at this point that I did actually feel that I had been cheated. Everything had come to a point, and the carrot that the game had dangled all the time had finally been handed to me, and guess what, it was actually a penis - "you just chased dick for ten hours. Hah!" screamed Link, and I nodded my head. I felt soulless, and I didn't feel that warm and fuzzy feeling I felt at the end of Ocarina, like I'd really reached a great conclusion to the series.

And so I went into the castle, beat the four copies of bosses I'd already beaten that were all very pretty and in black and white. I beat the ganondorf clones and puppets, that were buggy and illthoughtout copies of 2D bosses, and faced off in one gigantic clusterfuck of a swordfight that really did, for me, crown a horrible game. It was boring, it was unoriginal, and guess what, Zelda helped in her usual, helpless-female-stereotype manner.

And the ending was about all I could expect. Zelda's never had a good ending, but you can tolerate that after a game full of character, charm, and intelligent RPG fun, such as Zelda:TOoT (hah!) and Zelda: aLttP, or even Oracle of Storms, Ages, and Link's Awakening. You have to feel kinda sad when your big fat 3D game feels soulless compared to a pocket game.

The Wind Waker was soulless, and painful, and really sad. It was made to make people keep playing, with a pretence that they knew people would keep going for the hope of making it to the great Ocarina of Time connection. I was expecting, with the great buildup, that I was gonna enter a destroyed, but reasonably large Hyrule, and have a proper adventure there, but instead, I got a strip of path and a boring, very easy castle.

Did I mention that it was easy? The entire game was done within 10 hours. 10. Fucking. Hours. No, that doesn't include all the hearts; I did them after beating it, but really didn't need them. When I ended up getting them all, and all the secret crap...I realised the game was a joke. It was like I was being lead by the hand the entire thing. There were few secret, interesting quests. I explored the entirety of that goddamn map for next to nothing. Where was Epona? Where was the hero of time? The Ocarina? The Goron's sword quest that made me smile so much, because it was so fiendishly clever in how it was made that it made me ENJOY failing it.

The Wind Waker was a horribly wasted game. There was so much potential for a great game from the beginning, and it was wasted. The game was so charmless, and so boring. The only good thing about it was, tragically, the cartoony graphics that turned so many away from it, which were genuinely beautiful, and with a proper team behind it may very well have created a great game. But the Wind Waker was not that game.

As for the extra discs, don't talk to me about the extra discs. There would have been such a small amount of effort needed to convert them to a faster framerate (That's all majora/TOOT needed), and that's a unifying image for this entire sordid package.

I'm happy to say that the Wind Waker does nothing more than support my broken headboard on my bed now. That is where it shall stay.

HA HA HA !!!!


Now that is one HUGE rant...:shock:


Well, I'm not going as far as he does, but, yeah, the part about the 8 Triforce shards ? Boy it nearly killed me.


Plus Ganon in Wind Waker was like the worst push-over in all the series. Hands down.


Anyway, I'll say it again : Wind Waker was a good game, but it was nowhere near the perfection people claim it to have. No way.

Originally posted by Evad D'Aragon
Anyway, I'll say it again : Wind Waker was a good game, but it was nowhere near the perfection people claim it to have. No way.

The same can be said about every other highly praised game ever released... though some aren't at Windwaker's level :P. Oh god, I feel my FF7 rant coming >< so I'll just sum up:

FF7 - some characters too stereotypical, thrown in for no reason; too many Bible parallels; bad ability system (wasn't as annoying as IX's, but it made very little sense. They did not do a good job of convincing me that my little stone can let me summon the Knights of the Round Table....which was another thing thrown in there randomly =\)

Zelda: tOoT - Water Dungeon. Need I say more? :x Oh, and the storyline was god-awful, and got worse. But still, its one of the better game storylines I've seen, so =\

Actually, that's all I feel like ranting on... >.>

Summary: Windwaker BAD, FF7 and Ocarina of Time not as perfect as people say!

Oh, and on topic?

PS2 is the best

GCN and X-Box are great too. I mean, the cube has good games (and sorry, please don't include SSBM. It was nowhere near as good as the original Super Smash Brothers. Sheik was overpowered, it had too many nearly useless characters, and it just seemed to be trying to jam to much in). And X-Box has the best console version of DDR out yet.

Woah woah woah.
FF7 was damn good. The one important thing about an RPG is making the audience or players immersed in the storyline or holding some sort of emotional connection to characters within the storyline.

IE: You cared for Cloud. You cared for Zidane. You didn't really, in the great scheme of things, ever care for any of the characters in TWW.

The immersion factor in FF7 was controlled by music, graphical flourishes (Read: FMV), and dialogue. Yes, there were meaningless characters, but compare that to Zelda, where it was an entire game of them, including the main one.

Zelda has very little to immerse you with, and yet Ocarina managed it by having memorable themes for characters, a cogent storyline that, while following the Zelda ways, still managed to hold the gamer down until the last moment, in a final battle that was really dramatic and interesting.

TWW didn't really immerse. It had too much damn sailing. None of the characters had the charm of any of FF7's, or even TooT's; I mean, there was nothing amazing about the dragon boat's dialogue. It just guided you in big fat text where to go next. Not even Ganondorf said much, apart from how evil he was and how much Link sucks. And with no zelda theme, and no goddamn connection to TooT, the game had nothing.

AHHH, WIND WAKER.

But when you play a Zelda game, you shouldn't really go in there expecting much characterisation, the whole plot's just an excuse for a few dungeons~ Generally it works okay, or at least I think so. But I haven't played TWW much, yet. So.... I dunno.

I expected as much as I got from the SNES version and TOoT.
Which wasn't a lot.

But I got so much less from TWW.

Forgive me for my poorly organized post.

FFVII is nowhere near as bad as TWW, but I was just saying it did have its flaws too. Honestly, though, I never actually cared about Cloud, he just was a cool enigma who's shroud I wanted to get rid off.

Erm, yeah.

xbox controls were complicated tho :()

PS2, mainly for the FF games, and Legacy of Kain, and Zone of the Enders: The Second Runner, and Gran Turismo series (can't wait for GT4!!!).

Oh, and Zelda just plain sucked, every single damn one of the games ('cept the hand-held versions). Controls were just too damn cumbersome with the ones on the main console.

But then, I hate just about all "dungeon-crawlers"... which is why I despised Dark Cloud. After the first dungeon it was way too repetitive.

While Ocarina of Time is one of my favorite games of all time, it's about the only Zelda game I REALLY LIKED.... and Wind Waker was terrible. I totally agree with everything mrmonkeyman says in his post about it, except that I didn't even like the graphics either. Maybe the next Zelda game will be better, but it's doubtful they will ever live up to Ocarina of Time again.

Gamecube. I own all three of the currently supported consoles. The PS2 has been one gigantic disappointment, the xbox has 0 good games (save for Halo, I guess), and the gamecube just has more quirky little titles. If you want to include the GBA in this, though, it gets my vote hands down. I love that little thing.

Originally posted by Loki
While Ocarina of Time is one of my favorite games of all time, it's about the only Zelda game I REALLY LIKED.... and Wind Waker was terrible. I totally agree with everything mrmonkeyman says in his post about it, except that I didn't even like the graphics either. Maybe the next Zelda game will be better, but it's doubtful they will ever live up to Ocarina of Time again.
Now I may have missworded what I said...I said the graphics weren't bad, and were genuinely beautiful in parts, but I didn't like them, and the style did not suit the game imho.

i play playstation simply for FF and GTA (there may be like two other games). im dedicated to Nintendo so i'd have to go with Gamecube. Now X-box...dont go near the thing.

ps2 is way too overrated!
i aint even gonna say i hate, quite the opposite in fact!
ps2 has some very, VERY good titles, but alot of them are just PURE shit!! and most of them games are the ones that are keeping the ps on top!

even the xbox is overated, i mean, yeah its not as high praised as the ps2 but ppl say it's such a great console!
the only 2 game i like on the system is halo and morrowind!

gamecube is the console for me, dont have as much games as the ps2 but a higher % of them are great!
and alot of you have been slaying the ww, ok, it dont have a great story but what it dont have there it makes up for in gameplay!

How does it "make up for it in gameplay"?
Repetetive, simple, ridiculously easy combat does not make up for the awful, carrot-penis-on-a-stick debauchery that is the plot. The "gameplay" is everything we saw in Ocarina of Time, and in A Link To The Past, updated with graphics, and not even convincingly trying to be any different. In fact, it seemed to be exactly the same format as Ocarina, with the ocassional new bit to try and convince you that a good game is actually in there, underneath the layers of bullshit.

ARGH.

ok, now your just hating!

so the ww had very little improvements on Toot, yeah, but you why? im sure you do!
Toot has gameplay better then most games ever made!! what do you expect?
maybe you can tell me something they could've done, then maybe i'll agree!

It had retroactive improvements, special ANTI improvements.

Okay, whacko, I'll give you "something they could've done."
Ever play the oracle of seasons and ages on the gameboy colour? Those games were brilliant. They were original. They involved changing the seasons or travelling through time to open up and change the land - in a similar way to the ocarina of time, but obviously simplified.

In the Wind Waker there was no such element of brilliance. The wind waker was bullshit. It woke the wind. Great. All I need is a can of fizzy pop and a kebab and I'm all for waking the wind on my lonesome. It was peripheral and felt tacked on at the last moment. It didn't have the same beauty and brilliance as the ocarina had - tell me, do you remember any of the wind waker's songs?

In the ocarina, we had saria's song (doo doo doo, doo doo doo, doo doo doo DOO DOO doo doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo), the song of time, and the song of storms, even without the Zelda theme, we had these songs to tie to the game. We had musical continuity that meant the game had charm.

What did the wind waker have?

It had little or nothing that made it individual that was fun. The crazy cooky extra element was the most arduous and hated gaming device used in gaming history since Rise of the fucking Robots decided to spend all it's money on graphics. There was no effort towards emotion or originality, it was a cookie-cutter RPG, beyond the artistry, which, in my opinion, was the only saving grace. Had they put as much effort into the story as they had into ambient lighting and sensitive beads, we'd all be avoiding this constant war with me.

What they could have done was make a storyline that eventually built up to a return to hyrule, with a somewhat limited recreation of the ocarina world, but in the startling 3D, with some extra quests, and music that corrolated, and delayed the boss...who you would have had to fight in the proper placement of Hyrule Castle, which would have had fiendishly difficult puzzles that required the use of every item you had gained so far - � LA THE OCARINA.

I should write this crap.

lol, some good points there!

but your hate for the game is too strong!
you make the game sound like it's just for playing music!
shti yeah, i dont remember one of the soneg in ww, i remember them all form Toot, but that dont mean shit (could be that i completed the game more then 20 times)
when i say game play, i mean fighting and shit, you didnt say nothing about that!

the story of the game was complete wank, we know this, but the gameplay is far better then most games!

I have to agree, the gameplay was pretty crappy and reused for the most part. The only real thing they added was a fancy counter attack and that's about it. Aside from the battle system, puzzles end up being almost the same thing over and over again. They are just takes from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask (which I find to be a really great Zelda game even though the general flow of it was different).

There are no negative points in Cel-Shading, that's the debate BEFORE the game. The gameplay was pretty normal and puzzles end up being just a 2 second thought process.... not to mention that there was nothing too great about the GBA link... I mean, it's just an enlarged map and reasons to use your rubies... even then it doesn't save you when you really need it.

Oh and how do you make sound with a stick? O_o;

im pretty much fighting a battle i cant win!

im gonna stop here!

Originally posted by razer
lol, some good points there!

but your hate for the game is too strong!
you make the game sound like it's just for playing music!
shti yeah, i dont remember one of the soneg in ww, i remember them all form Toot, but that dont mean shit (could be that i completed the game more then 20 times)
when i say game play, i mean fighting and shit, you didnt say nothing about that!

the story of the game was complete wank, we know this, but the gameplay is far better then most games!
Ohh, I didn't did I?
Fine.
The fighting is essentially a simplified ocarina system. Why simplified? Because there really wasn't much in the way of proper super moves. Ocarina had the djinn-ish things, and the various forms of sword. What did WW have? The master sword, the master sword MKII, and that was it. It was painfully underwhelming and was not "better than most games," I mean, Sword of Mana on the GBA had a more complex and fun battle system than WW.

And yeah, it really is a losing battle.

I have to agree with mmm on some points. Yeah, the game is overrated, but thats because it has the name "Zelda" in the title. Any title is going to sell good with the names Zelda of Final Fantasy in it, but those two names can't stop people from selling the games because they are not that good. Ex: FF:CC was terrible, WW was not that good. I'm not even sure why they are making a Wind Waker 2, because it may seriously damage the legacy of Zelda. We don't need to have two crappy Zelda games in a row.

Today's media briefing proved that we aint getting another WW, it's another ocarina. Good news indeed. Or at least, it seems that way.

Yes, the new Zelda game is going to be a lot more realistic, and pictures of it do in fact suggest that it may be Ocarina of Time 2. Well, at least, it looks like it.

I've just seen the video on IGN, and, yeah, I do have to admit Link has never looked that fabulous...


But, really, it won't matter to me if there is not much change to elements. Face it, if all that is changed is the graphic style so that the cel-shading bashing people stop complaining then in my book it will actually be WORSE than Wind Waker.

I just hope there will be things that will SURPRISE me in that game (I'm not talking about one or two slightly changed objects that act like something else we have already seen), and please, no more stupid fetching quests that are mandatory (like the 8 triforce shards in Wind Waker). Make it different, be it storyline or gameplay wise and then I'll be happy. Because, let's face it, Wind Waker is Ocarina of Time 2.0 :p Which isn't necessiraly an extremely bad thing, but somewhat disappointing.

well........turns out that ww won game of the year, cant be that bad!
cant be that bad! can it?
i actually thought ww was a let down after playing it again
but that doesnt mean it was bad, i like to call this "difference in opinion"

and yes the next game is supposed to be non cel shaded!
i also heard that silicon knights or retro studios (cant remember)is making the game!
cant wait!

edited: didnt see the last post!!! give me the link please!

Hahaha, wait a second...


There you go :

http://media.cube.ign.com/media/572/572738/vids_1.html

Luckily, I'm an IGN Insider, so I could feast my eyes of the hi-res Quicktime version, but the Windows Media version should do ;)

After Legend of Zelda : A link to the past, I lost interest in the later Zelda games. I've played the ones of the N64, Gameboy and even a brief play of Wind Waker, but in my own personal opinion, Legend of Zelda : A link to the past is still the best. But that's just me.

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread. Out of all the consoles I own (NES, SNES, N64, Master System, Megadrive, Mega-Cd, Saturn, Dreamcast, PSX, PS2, X-Box and Vectrex), my vote goes to Sega's Dreamcast. Why? Well, the quality of some of the games are quite superb. Skies of Arcadia, Grandia II, Sword of the Bezerk and some others, have great storylines and the gameplay is excellent. It's a shame that the Dreamcast died the way it did, two or three years after it's inital arrival here in Australia.

PS2.... it have all the games i need (final fantasy, metal gear, xenosaga, gran turismo)
soon...xenosaga 2, gran turismo 4, final fantasy 12, metal gear 3... and evangelion (soon........... ...I NEED IT!!!!!!! ALL!!!)

check it out in gamespot...