I’m loving this new 40th Anniversary release, but for some reason a mistake was made or this was missed at least.
There’s a very noticeable and irritating error in the film version of the main titles. When you get to that first distinct trumpet statement at 1:42 the pitch is off where the edit was made. Now I know there was a similar problem in the film itself, but here the pitch goes down, as opposed to up. Very strange indeed.
I have fixed it and corrected the pitch for anybody who would like to hear the film version without such a nuisance.
Enjoy!
FLAC (https://mega.nz/#!inQDXS5T!MXz1FfpvIL9cPkHdnOarEt_OIzY7e46FjpiJgyx5XlI)
I’m loving this new 40th Anniversary release, but for some reason a mistake was made or this was missed at least.
There’s a very noticeable and irritating error in the film version of the main titles. When you get to that first distinct trumpet statement at 1:42 the pitch is off where the edit was made. Now I know there was a similar problem in the film itself, but here the pitch goes down, as opposed to up. Very strange indeed.
I have fixed it and corrected the pitch for anybody who would like to hear the film version without such a nuisance.
Enjoy!
FLAC (https://mega.nz/#!fmJl0ATa!sXxLUTCqRhRgw0vqOYXykN3V9cP4j0ANrlbpxf2HwlI)
Thank you for fixing the pitch 🙂
You made all the difference! 😉
Thank you very much !
For anyone who wants it? Here’s the MP3 version as well:
MP3 320kbps (https://mega.nz/#!WmZ2nYAQ!3oeOHFbryoPJsEE-j-r8DFU3kXzbPov3gGCQtkNhGOY)
I genuinely can’t hear any difference between the original download and the files you’ve edited, apart from a minor reduction in overall volume on yours. What am I missing?
I genuinely can’t hear any difference between the original download and the files you’ve edited, apart from a minor reduction in overall volume on yours. What am I missing?
At 1:42 (originally) the pitch incorrectly shifts down causing the key to change abruptly. This is due to a different take and the editing involved, and the pitch wasn’t corrected. Therefore from 1:42 the entire track (not just the trumpet statement) is in the incorrect pitch and speed.
Drove me crazy the first time I noticed as the film version has always had some noticeable changes in it due to the editing. It was never that bad before (on previous releases) though on the trumpet edit, so it had to be FIXED.
If you’re that good you should be working in recording studios instead of "fixing" perfection from FLAC audio files downloaded from the internet.
I didn’t think the mistake was very "irritating", but it’s always good to refine an almost perfect work !
If you’re that good you should be working in recording studios instead of "fixing" perfection from FLAC audio files downloaded from the internet.
How do you know I’m not? 😉
The fact of the matter is the mistake is there.
What’s next? Are you going to call all the countless mistakes other highly praised "professionals" have made over their careers perfection too? Now that’s most amusing.
Good one! It’s an earworm everytime I watch it…. even more recently in glorious 4K and Dolby Amos sound. 😀
I’m sure he would be firing him for future restorations and hiring yourself instead.
You guys are the one who amuse me every single time I read about your "fixings" "special editions" etc…. keep up the self-esteem, sorry I mean the ego-boost.
Sorry, but some of you people here are really too much. You’re improving the work of award winning mastering engineer Mike Mattesino? Talk about self-esteem! LOL
If you’re that good you should be working in recording studios instead of "fixing" perfection from FLAC audio files downloaded from the internet.
http://i.imgur.com/SirNe9R.gif
Then gtfo of here and go conduct the LSO. Don�t associate yourself with us losers who need our egos boosted :laugh:
This was taken from the official LLL release. The pitch error on track 17 disc 2 exists within the source, as I have just checked the physical disc itself right as of sending this.
It was likely fixed for the previous releases on the master itself as it’s not present on either the Rhino nor FSM releases.
I’m loving this new 40th Anniversary release, but for some reason a mistake was made or this was missed at least.
There’s a very noticeable and irritating error in the film version of the main titles. When you get to that first distinct trumpet statement at 1:42 the pitch is off where the edit was made. Now I know there was a similar problem in the film itself, but here the pitch goes down, as opposed to up. Very strange indeed.
I have fixed it and corrected the pitch for anybody who would like to hear the film version without such a nuisance.
Enjoy!
FLAC (https://mega.nz/#!fmJl0ATa!sXxLUTCqRhRgw0vqOYXykN3V9cP4j0ANrlbpxf2HwlI)
Very appreciated! But I think now it’s pitched a bit too high. Maybe you could try something in the middle?
I’m impressed!! I listened through headphones and you are right. It’s very slight, but I’ll edit my original post and add the newly corrected track shortly. The whole point of this was to remove the mistake entire so that’s what I’m going to do.
Quality is dying of an obvious lack of care (… and, clearly, good ears!)!
Lobbying and self-proclamation sadly rule. 🙁
HAVE A SUPER WEEKEND
Cool, thanks!!
You’ve taken the original film version of the Prelude and Main March and "corrected" the well-known pitch variation. A variation of around 25-30 centitones, and which was purposefully done by Bob Hathaway and the music editing team who worked on the film. It’s not a mistake, as you stated in your opening post, it was done intentionally. It’s also pitched up, not down. As I recall, no-one remembers precisely why the change was made, but the hypothesis is that it was done to "uplift" that section musically. Regardless, it’s been there since the film was released.
The new LLL release preserves the cue(s) as originally presented; Mike Matessino addressed this question a few weeks ago. It therefore makes zero sense to alter it, otherwise there’s no point to calling it "Prelude and Main Title (Film version)"
Utter waste of time, but each to their own…
You’ve taken the original film version of the Prelude and Main March and "corrected" the well-known pitch variation. A variation of around 25-30 centitones, and which was purposefully done by Bob Hathaway and the music editing team who worked on the film. It’s not a mistake, as you stated in your opening post, it was done intentionally. It’s also pitched up, not down. As I recall, no-one remembers precisely why the change was made, but the hypothesis is that it was done to "uplift" that section musically. Regardless, it’s been there since the film was released.
The new LLL release preserves the cue(s) as originally presented; Mike Matessino addressed this question a few weeks ago. It therefore makes zero sense to alter it, otherwise there’s no point to calling it "Prelude and Main Title (Film version)"
Utter waste of time, but each to their own…
Wow, that was a waste of time…
You’ve taken the original film version of the Prelude and Main March and "corrected" the well-known pitch variation. A variation of around 25-30 centitones, and which was purposefully done by Bob Hathaway and the music editing team who worked on the film. It’s not a mistake, as you stated in your opening post, it was done intentionally. It’s also pitched up, not down. As I recall, no-one remembers precisely why the change was made, but the hypothesis is that it was done to "uplift" that section musically. Regardless, it’s been there since the film was released.
The new LLL release preserves the cue(s) as originally presented; Mike Matessino addressed this question a few weeks ago. It therefore makes zero sense to alter it, otherwise there’s no point to calling it "Prelude and Main Title (Film version)"
Utter waste of time, but each to their own…
That’s the thing though, this isn’t the alteration as heard in the film that was intentionally done, as I already mentioned. I’m well aware of the infamous speedup and "no" it’s pitched down not up here. You honestly haven’t listened to it have you?
This is an entirely new error. Your argument against it being the "film version" is utterly without merit because where was this mistake on the other releases? That’s right it "didn’t exist".
The film version was clearly done recently for this LLL release as were the others at the time they were done. They didn’t simply pull this out of the film as you are implying. Why would they want to do that? The audio quality of the music in the film or even its isolated track doesn’t come close to the quality on the LLL release. This cue was always made to match the film version as closely as possible without the ear worm. If you’re trying to defend this error by saying it’s now entirely close to the film version because of it? Then we had better all start praising releases like the Ultimate Edition of The Phantom Menace. Nobody in their right mind would want this left in. For whatever reason it was and it shouldn’t have been. Well it’s fixed now, so there really isn’t any need to argue.
Overall this is an amazing restoration (the best I’ve ever heard) and should be commended.
Is this a defect or error that is present in this BOX? or the exageration of a hardcore fan who finds fault with the work of M. MATESSINO?
I admit to being a little lost and perplexed knowing that I receive the precious Monday or next Tuesday. Do I have reasons to worry?
Thanks in advance ? 😉
If you think you have a better ear and expertise than Mike Matessino and the LLL team, then at least have the stones to come out and say it.
This is merely in exercise in ego stroking and – if you genuinely hear this as pitched down – you should consider getting your hearing checked.
This is an entirely new error. Your argument against it being the "film version" is utterly without merit because where was this mistake on the other releases? That’s right it "didn’t exist".
I’m starting to wonder if you’ve been sent a defective copy, or your sound system needs replacing. What mistake are you on about? There’s a pitch shift at 1:41/42 into the track which shifts it UP by just over a quarter-tone; pretty much spot-on with the original release. I don’t hear any new error.
They didn’t simply pull this out of the film as you are implying. Why would they want to do that?
I didn’t imply that. The recently-unearthed masters and process used to compile this new release have been discussed in depth.
Look: this is ultimately pointless and wil get us nowhere… You’re convinced you’re an audio expert better than the ones LLL’s employing, and I think you’re another one of those forum members who like to score brownie points by "fixing" non-existent mistakes. I’m glad you’ve "fixed" it to your satisfaction and there are many others on this board who will be appreciative. Thank you for your efforts.
I, however, will rather stick with the professionally-produced product that’s been released with the blessing of the Composer. Sure: there’ll be defects and flaws, but I can quite happily live with them.
Is this a defect or error that is present in this BOX? or the exageration of a hardcore fan who finds fault with the work of M. MATESSINO?
The latter. There’s nothing to worry about. 🙂
It’s in my original post.
FLAC (https://mega.nz/#!inQDXS5T!MXz1FfpvIL9cPkHdnOarEt_OIzY7e46FjpiJgyx5XlI)
———- Post added at 11:32 PM ———- Previous post was at 11:10 PM ———-
If you think you have a better ear and expertise than Mike Matessino and the LLL team, then at least have the stones to come out and say it.
This is merely in exercise in ego stroking and – if you genuinely hear this as pitched down – you should consider getting your hearing checked.
I’m starting to wonder if you’ve been sent a defective copy, or your sound system needs replacing. What mistake are you on about? There’s a pitch shift at 1:41/42 into the track which shifts it UP by just over a quarter-tone; pretty much spot-on with the original release. I don’t hear any new error.
Listen, I’ve played the original track over and over and at 1:42 the pitch on the trumpet goes down NOT up. I know this for various reasons, one being I had to pitch it up in Adobe Audition to fix it in the first place. I think we may have a situation here where both could occur and it just goes down and up again within a few seconds of each other. Either way it’s not correct and I don’t have the original file anymore as I deleted it and replaced it with my fixed one.
I have incredibly good hearing (on record) and I wouldn’t argue this if I wasn’t sure. This is honestly going to have to end here because I shall not be replying back to this matter again. I didn’t do this for dramatics on here, I honestly don’t have time for it.
Enjoy this incredible release and the corrected track guys!
Going down a scale, similarly, the ear wants the notes to get slightly flatter. This isnt a true change in PITCH (only by semi tones).
Comparing in an editing program what youve done, is that youve taken the version presented and sped it up / pitched it up ever so slightly. This is because your ear has been trained to EXPECT a brighter, slightly higher tone from the music in this moment than the actual original recordings.
Its not so much an ERROR as a more strict interpretation of pitch than what the ear is expecting (both due to the film memory and the tendency to expect brighter/sharper pitches when going up).
I am by NO means saying this is without merit, but I woudlnt call it an error or an oversight. More like a stricter interpretation.
It’s a good effort, OP, but I think my buddy above me could have a point, though we won’t know for sure unless we ask Matessino ourselves.
And to those who think the OP is trying to have an ego boost here: good, because considering the niche market that is film soundtracks, we’ll need more people like MM. So just fixing small errors is a good start. 😀
From Mike
In this case, the Superman main title is not a "film version" in the sense that revised inserts were done, etc. It is something that was cobbled together editorially later. In the movie it’s actually quite clumsy, with bars cut out and a raised pitch applied. Therefore the proper approach was to present what the composer actually intended, and then have the early version alternate and cobbled-together film version main titles in the bonus section. And actually we might have dropped the latter if not for the fact that it was on the two prior editions of the score. But we had room, so it was included it, and it’s there for anyone who prefers that version as the start of the score rather than the one that actually fits the credits the way Williams designed it.
From Mike
In this case, the Superman main title is not a "film version" in the sense that revised inserts were done, etc. It is something that was cobbled together editorially later. In the movie it’s actually quite clumsy, with bars cut out and a raised pitch applied. Therefore the proper approach was to present what the composer actually intended, and then have the early version alternate and cobbled-together film version main titles in the bonus section. And actually we might have dropped the latter if not for the fact that it was on the two prior editions of the score. But we had room, so it was included it, and it’s there for anyone who prefers that version as the start of the score rather than the one that actually fits the credits the way Williams designed it.
Oh, I know exactly what the reasoning was behind this decision. I just think you might want to label it a bit differently, since it doesn’t exactly work with the "film version" label. Perhaps "film assembly?" I’m not sure.
For being a guy who normally isn’t a fan of film edits, I quite like this one for Superman, so perhaps I am being too picky about those wanting to present a more sanitized version of it. And it’s put together well, even with the oddity I mentioned above, so it’s certainly cool for the people who want to hear it like that.
From Mike
In this case, the Superman main title is not a "film version" in the sense that revised inserts were done, etc. It is something that was cobbled together editorially later. In the movie it’s actually quite clumsy, with bars cut out and a raised pitch applied. Therefore the proper approach was to present what the composer actually intended, and then have the early version alternate and cobbled-together film version main titles in the bonus section. And actually we might have dropped the latter if not for the fact that it was on the two prior editions of the score. But we had room, so it was included it, and it’s there for anyone who prefers that version as the start of the score rather than the one that actually fits the credits the way Williams designed it.
Bravo to Mike, he has done a wonderful job with it! I always like to compare this set to FSM’s Ben-Hur in 2012.
———- Post added at 12:53 PM ———- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ———-
I’ll never understand why it is they bother with attempting a film version on these releases, considering they never do the proper alterations for it to actually match. Sure, they basically put the right components together, but never the pitch shift and the edits. If they really don’t want to "damage" the audio like they say they would, then I’d much rather they just leave it off and maybe add something else in its place. There also seems to be an instrument missing in the transition (comparison here (https://dbr.ee/BSxh)), which I don’t know if they did because it’s basically inaudible in the original film sound mix or if they just edited the takes differently. Either way, it’s just a small nitpick in what I hear is a fantastically assembled set.
It’s a good effort, OP, but I think my buddy above me could have a point, though we won’t know for sure unless we ask Matessino ourselves.
And to those who think the OP is trying to have an ego boost here: good, because considering the niche market that is film soundtracks, we’ll need more people like MM. So just fixing small errors is a good start. 😀
Hi! I just heard the FSM and LLL "film version" tracks back to back, and in the FSMversion there’s a noticeable harp up glissando (I’m not sure if it’s the right word, I’m not an orchestral musician), while it’s not present in the LLL presentation. However, listening to the film, I couldn’t hear if there is a harp going up the scale, since it’s been drowned out by sound effects. I guess this will be a mystery left to the audio professionals. 🙂 Still, this is a great set, and despite some interesting pitch variations here and there, I enjoy it very much. And I think it’s actually quite good, since we’re talking about 40-year-old analog tape sources. So I expected pitch differences here and there, and think this is normal, at least to me, the ears of a listener. I am no audio technician.
You’ve taken the original film version of the Prelude and Main March and "corrected" the well-known pitch variation. A variation of around 25-30 centitones, and which was purposefully done by Bob Hathaway and the music editing team who worked on the film. It’s not a mistake, as you stated in your opening post, it was done intentionally. It’s also pitched up, not down. As I recall, no-one remembers precisely why the change was made, but the hypothesis is that it was done to "uplift" that section musically. Regardless, it’s been there since the film was released.
The new LLL release preserves the cue(s) as originally presented; Mike Matessino addressed this question a few weeks ago. It therefore makes zero sense to alter it, otherwise there’s no point to calling it "Prelude and Main Title (Film version)"
Utter waste of time, but each to their own…
I think the change was made because it was decided to remove or combine some of the main credits so the music needed to be shorter to fit the edit.
You’ve taken the original film version of the Prelude and Main March and "corrected" the well-known pitch variation. A variation of around 25-30 centitones, and which was purposefully done by Bob Hathaway and the music editing team who worked on the film. It’s not a mistake, as you stated in your opening post, it was done intentionally. It’s also pitched up, not down. As I recall, no-one remembers precisely why the change was made, but the hypothesis is that it was done to "uplift" that section musically. Regardless, it’s been there since the film was released.
The new LLL release preserves the cue(s) as originally presented; Mike Matessino addressed this question a few weeks ago. It therefore makes zero sense to alter it, otherwise there’s no point to calling it "Prelude and Main Title (Film version)"
Utter waste of time, but each to their own…
Thanks for clarifying this.
You’ve taken the original film version of the Prelude and Main March and "corrected" the well-known pitch variation. A variation of around 25-30 centitones, and which was purposefully done by Bob Hathaway and the music editing team who worked on the film. It’s not a mistake, as you stated in your opening post, it was done intentionally. It’s also pitched up, not down. As I recall, no-one remembers precisely why the change was made, but the hypothesis is that it was done to "uplift" that section musically. Regardless, it’s been there since the film was released.
The new LLL release preserves the cue(s) as originally presented; Mike Matessino addressed this question a few weeks ago. It therefore makes zero sense to alter it, otherwise there’s no point to calling it "Prelude and Main Title (Film version)"
Utter waste of time, but each to their own…
I have every possible Superman soundtrack ever released, so I was kind of surprised to see this thread pop up, especially because nothing sounded off to my ears. Thanks for clarifying.
———- Post added at 10:21 AM ———- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ———-
Hi! I just heard the FSM and LLL "film version" tracks back to back, and in the FSMversion there’s a noticeable harp up glissando (I’m not sure if it’s the right word, I’m not an orchestral musician), while it’s not present in the LLL presentation. However, listening to the film, I couldn’t hear if there is a harp going up the scale, since it’s been drowned out by sound effects. I guess this will be a mystery left to the audio professionals. 🙂 Still, this is a great set, and despite some interesting pitch variations here and there, I enjoy it very much. And I think it’s actually quite good, since we’re talking about 40-year-old analog tape sources. So I expected pitch differences here and there, and think this is normal, at least to me, the ears of a listener. I am no audio technician.
It’s not been the first time they meddled with John Williams’ music in the film during editing, and it won’t be the last. The pitch difference was done by Stuart Baird and/or Michael Ellis, and was not the way Williams had written it. It’s not on any of the commercially released scores, only on the isolated score (i.e. film music stems, not the original Williams’ compositions). There’s no audible difference between this "fix" and the LLL version, not to my ears at least. Apparently I’m not the only one who feels this way either. If I could hear the difference, I’d be thankful for this edit but, in my humble opinion, it doesn’t seem necessary either. However, if OP does hear something, then by all means, I’m happy for his own change. If he wants to include this in his set and it makes him happy, then we should let him.
Every official release is always going to have the odd moment of imperfection. The engineers are humans and they’re working to a deadline. They’re also probably working on a thousand other things at the same time. I can completely understand if the restoration engineer, who undoubtedly listened to every track of this score fifty times over during the course of preparing this release, missed an almost-imperceptible event that lasts less than a second. That said, pitch variances are something which is easily fixed now, and I don’t see any attempt to build on Matessino’s work, or simply provide an alternative, to be insulting the guy or this release or the company that made it.
It’s obsessive fans doing what obsessive fans do best – "adopting" something that bothers them but which 99.9% of people don’t see or don’t care about and doing what they can to make it better.
The fix does address the issue. It is subtle, but it’s there. It isn’t perfect but it’s a move in the right direction. I will try to do a frequency analysis later this evening if I get the time. The variance in the original version doesn’t bother me in the slightest bit – because I’m used to occasional pitch instabilities in analogue recordings, and because I’m listening to one of the finest symphonic scores ever written in the history of cinema… but I cannot disagree that it’s there and that an attempt to fix it is completely valid.
Thank you, Captain, for your efforts and for making me notice something about one of my all-time favourites that I never picked up before.
This is merely in exercise in ego stroking and – if you genuinely hear this as pitched down – you should consider getting your hearing checked."
Aw, it looks capt. fixer’s little ego-stroking bubble is about to burst by reality. There there, capi. I’m sure your hearing super-powers and your merry lil band of b*** kissers will continue worshipping and even promoting you to colonel.
Sign Out, not interested on amateur second rate ego-strokers with delusions of grandeur.
I don’t understand what’s the problem in trying to fix little mistakes, considering as previously mentioned, human error is natural when it comes to big efforts, such as that of restoring a famous score. Admittedly, the error here likely came from some hiccup in the editing process, since I don’t believe any other version of the track has the error. But still, it’s something that is noticeable to some, and thus worth addressing.
I do believe that something small like this could lead to further interest in having a place in the world of restoring film scores, since like I previously mentioned, it is a niche market. Matessino and others have been great, but they won’t be around forever, so I’d say this can lead to potential careers, should they persue it.
So I’d much rather be the guy with a supposed ego problem than the guy complaining about something he can very easily ignore. What’s next: assembling a whole set means someone wants to be God or something? Give me a break.
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