With Horner’s sad passing, who should step in and continue the series?
As much as I’d probably love Hans Zimmer to take it over, he is too strong an individual voice to be shackled with paying much reverence to the essence of what Horner already did, and It’d be a waste to ask it of him. Zimmer would have to just do his own thing and pretty much completely ignore Horner’s sublime groundwork. Whereas I think whomever continues the series would likely need to have a similar aesthetic as Horner — and the ability to gracefully, humbly, and purposefully submit their talents to the looming shadow of Horner in tribute to his legacy… But maybe it’s better to just get someone great and have them do their own unique thing?
without too much initial explanation, I will just submit these names for review:
01. Hans Zimmer
02. James Newton Howard
03. Alan Silvestri
04. Christopher Young
05. Joel McNeely
06. John Debney
07. Andrew Lockington
08. David Arnold
09. Clint Mansell
10. Trevor Jones
11. Bruce Broughton
12. Mark Mancina
13. John Powell
14. Edward Shearmur
15. Elliot Goldenthal
16. Patrick Doyle
17. Blake Neely
18. Ilan Eshkeri
19. Abel Korzeniowski
20. Dario Marianelli
21. Don Davis
22. Cliff Eidelman
23. Marco Beltrami
24. Graeme Revell
25. Randy Edelman
26. Bear McCreary
27. Michael Giacchino
28. Brian Tyler
29. Steve Jablonski
30. Carter Burwell
31. Howard Shore
32. John Ottman
33. Danny Elfman
34. David Newman
35. Alexandre Desplat
I’m rather partial to the idea of giving the gig to longtime overlooked and underutilized Joel McNeely. He has a similar style to Horner (particularly in his unnecessarily great work for Disney’s "Tinkerbell" vod series) and already has an established working relationship with James Cameron on "Ghost Of The Abyss" and "Dark Angel".
Personally, I love the idea of McNeely but I doubt it’ll ever happen.
I think Howard, Lockington, Arnold or Powell would be the best choices here.
There’s also a barrage of composers in video games that create noteworthy music, but whether they can translate their musical talents into true cinematic storytelling and character enhancement is another question. Horner (if at times redundant or formulaic) ALWAYS had an inherent deep understanding and proclivity for his job as a significant contributing factor to the subtext of character within the grander design, and the grander design within the subtext of character — the intimate and the infinite — which is what made his efforts so effectively resonant. Horner didn’t just write music, he was an essential collaborative filmmaker, with strong opinions on how to sonically convey complementary feelings and ideas onto images with iconic themes and emblematic melodies. Expression never at the expense of the man nor the myth.
For all the criticism that Hans Zimmer snobbishly receives for his prot�g�s, parodists, or pop methodologies — I believe he’s one of the other composers who most astutely gets that aspect of his job as filmmaker and consistently delivers nuanced, innovative, and evocative contributions to cinematic storytelling. I truly suspect much of Christopher Nolan’s acclaimed work would absolutely fall short (if not altogether apart) without the narrative glue that Zimmer provides to truly lend convoluted hodgepodges of images from multiple arcs an air of confident cadence and purposed propulsion – shepherding anticipatory audiences toward accurate interpretation until eventual respite or resolution grants clarity. Whether one considers Zimmer a brilliant symphonic composer or not, Zimmer IS a brilliant FILM Composer — perhaps even more so than living-legends John Williams or Ennio Morricone (whom I feel often wrote detached from intention) — in correctly catering to the authentic emotion and aura of the narrative. So was James Horner, so sublime.
In my humble opinion.
Or, if they want to get risky, why not give an opportunity to people like Fernando Vel�zquez, Bear McCreary, Andrew Lockington, Roque Ba�os…? There’s a lot of good people out there, along with the usual cycle of Brian Tyler/Giacchino/Remote Control composers.
I personally favour a more traditional symphonic approach in scoring, but I realise that this is outdated now. But it could be just as exciting in the hands of, say for example Junkie XL or Daft Punk if that’s the direction the new movie is heading?
But in terms of Master scoring in a symphonic vein I would love to hear an Elliot Goldenthal score for another big fantasy movie and I also think that Mychael Danna could be an interesting choice too.
I’ve really liked some of HGW’s work, specifically Kingdom Of Heaven, but he too often disappoints with generic wallpaper (His Narnia stuff was just "functional" for me), whereas Horner’s compositions and themes always felt like an integral character to the story and essential to its telling. So HGW comes up short not only in lack of similar style, but more condemningly in lack of impact.
That said, I’ll still take Harry Gregson-Williams all-day/every-day over the likes of a weak sauce like Ramin Djawadi!
But if we’re gonna go the route of "Zimmerhouse" (Remote Control / Media Ventures), I’d rather just go straight to Hans (but it’d be a disservice to everyone to ask Zimmer to try to carry on in Horner’s same compositional vein).
From Zimmer’s lineage, I imagine John Powell and possibly Mark Mancina could also work.
Television’s most valuable player Blake Neely is a protege of first Michael Kamen, and secondly Zimmerhouse — and is certainly due to break out into features in a significant way…
I cannot really tell if that would work good, since I personally haven’t yet "catched" the greatness in Horner’s music. You know, my ears are way too used to Zimmer’s scores, and I’m slowly appreciating different approaches to film scores, like Beltrami’s (which I have "discovered" with this year’s Logan).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
Maybe. Nice piece!
But I guess that Cameron would consider first a composer he’s already worked with. And except the late James Horner, I remember only Brad Fiedel (which would be quite unlikely for the Avatar sequels) and Alan Silvestri. I have no clue if he’s be a good choice for the film though…
Alan Silvestri would be an appropriately strong choice to take the reins, although I seem to sense he and Cameron struggled to get on the same page for their one previous collaboration on The Abyss. Maybe I’m wrong though.
Cameron worked with Joel McNeely on "Ghost Of The Abyss" and his Fox TV series "Dark Angel". And McNeely is of similar traditional orchestral pedigree to Horner, and a master at perfectly mimicking another composers nuances (specifically for classic score re-recording albums). John Debney and Cliff Eidelman are also talented at being able to perfectly realize another composer’s intentions for re-recordings. All these choices have also composed hansom original film scores unto themselves. Then you have Horner associate Simon Franglen, who took over composer duties and interpreted the late great Horner’s theme sketches for Antoine Fuqua’s Magnificent Seven. So perhaps a good pinch hitter is what Avatar actually requires in lieu of Horner, rather than another big unique voice that would not stay in the same vein Horner starting pushing lifeblood through?
James Newton Howard. No second thoughts about it. He makes GREAT FANTASY music.
I do think JNH Would be an excellent choice, the only questions are if such an established voice as JNH wants to step into a world that Horner already established rather firmly in his own flourishes, and whether Cameron could feel sempatico with the working arrangement.
In the past Cameron definitely voiced a clear admiration for Hans Zimmer as being one of the best around. Zimmer would represent a bit of an amalgam in the cool synth style of Brad Fiedel and the more emotional orchestral sensibilities of Horner — both of whom were of course the two major previous music collaborative partners of Cameron’s career. Zimmer would probably do something fantastic, but it certainly wouldn’t ever be mistaken for belonging to the same language as Horner. But then again, it could be a good idea to have a new unique sound going forward, rather than try to regurgitate a pale imitation of what Horner did originally?
You’re completely right. They have so many sequels coming, they can’t afford to just regurgitate stuff from the first movie. It would quickly become boring. They need to expand the soundscape and push it in new directions. That’s why I really hope they get a new composer and give him as much freedom as possible.
Just like, for instance, Zimmer did on the 2nd and 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean. He didn’t stick too much to the old tunes and style, and invested himself so much in the process that he gave birth to one of his masterpieces (At World’s End). If the producers had insisted on having the same style as the 1st score, we would have gotten only scores like the 4th and 5th one, and I’m sure the series wouldn’t have been as impactful and successful!
Just like, for instance, Zimmer did on the 2nd and 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean. He didn’t stick too much to the old tunes and style, and invested himself so much in the process that he gave birth to one of his masterpieces (At World’s End). If the producers had insisted on having the same style as the 1st score, we would have gotten only scores like the 4th and 5th one, and I’m sure the series wouldn’t have been as impactful and successful!
Just in case you weren’t already aware.. 🙂
Zimmer really was the primary theme composer of the first Pirates movie "Curse Of The Black Pearl" as well. He was under some sort of exclusivity contract for another project at the time, so he wrote the themes and shepherded the 1st Pirates score with his team while letting poised protege Klaus Badelt take the composer credit. Pirates 5 composer Geoff Zanelli has actually been a significant team composer for all the films. Zimmerhouse do things in a collaborative method, a bit like a rock band. So even though there may be a primary writer, individual leaders of the group are still asked to insert their specialties to the overall score, just like a lead singer/songwriter would still call upon instrumental flourishes, or original solo moments from his band mates. Zimmer revolutionized mainstream film music in that rather than composing traditionally on paper, he takes a world-music/pop-rock approach (which is his own musical background) composing on instruments, and then collaborating with his team members to add their own textures and flavor. Of course Hans gets all manner of heat from fans of traditionalism, but he never hid his unorthodox system. Many big "traditional" film composers have their teams of ghost writers who forever live in the shadows, but Hans actually selfishly shares as much credit as he is allowed, compensates their work, and makes sure to push for filmmakers to take a chance on his mentorees, getting many of them high profile solo launches into major autonomous careers.
Zimmer’s factory "Remote Control"(aka "Media Ventues") is how we all came to know the film scoring careers of John Powell, Harry Gregson-Williams, Mark Mancina, Steve Jablonsky, Junkie XL, Trevor Rabin, Henry Jackman, Klaus Badelt, Lorne Balfe, Ramin Djawadi, Blake Neely, Geoff Zanelli, Trevor Morris, Nick Glennie-Smith, Atli �rvarsson, Heitor Pereora, Mark Streitenfeld, David Buckley, and James Dooley — amongst others.
Of course, not all those names are consistently impressive, but because of the platform that Zimmer set up for them, they have all had the opportunity. So regardless of the rather warranted complaint regarding the over prevalence of paler versions of a specific style linked to Zimmer, still no other cinematic music composer can claim to have mentored so many successful proteges. In my opinion, Zimmer himself remains a constantly innovative and eclectic musical force for strong and affecting storytelling compliment.
Two of Wallfisch’s 2017 scores currently reside as my top of the year thus far. His accompaniment for director Gore Verbinski’s underseen headtrip "A Cure For Wellness" has a wonderful eeriness to it, utilizing a chiming music-box type motif similar to (and ever so nearly equaling) what Javier Navarrete so memorably did on "Pan’s Labyrinth". But my favorite at this moment is Wallfisch’s score for the Holodomor set "Bitter Harvest" — a fairly shoddily produced film that is not nearly as prestigious as the tragic subject ought to demand — portraying the monumental 20th Century events of the sadistic Soviet forced man-made genocidal famine perpetrated upon the peoples of the Ukraine, resulting in a catastrophic death toll purported to be upward of 10 million (with lingering reverberations to this day). Unfortunately (despite some decent pedigree inside the production) the movie is littered with embarrassing clunky British accented English language performances, cheap aesthetics, gaudily forced romantic sweep, and syrupy melodrama. But Wallfisch’s heart rendering music at least does lend it one most dignified grace. Better use of his evocative efforts would comprise of letting it serve as companion piece whilst reading more astute literature on this harrowing topic. I wish a more profound cinematic treatment of grounded grandeur would be mounted to shed a much needed light on these significant hardships of the not-so-distant past… but, I digress… anyway, the score is quite marvelous and comes highly recommended! 🙂
Simpatico to James Horner’s oeuvre, Benjamin Wallfisch also composes with thematically resonant emotionality; mixing traditionally refined orchestral sensibilities and a sublime penchant for ethnic flourishes.
So, just perhaps, young maestro Wallfisch could prove a revelatory prospect for realizing the rest of James Cameron’s proposed magnum opus…
Amen to that!
James Horner really captivated me with the beginning of the track "Pure spirits of The Forest" from Avatar,
and there is one track (from the movie "Atlantis – The Lost Empire") by J. N. Howard that has the same mysterious vibe;
you can hear it 00:32 seconds in "The Secret Swim" and in the beginning of the "End Credits".
These days I’m listening to Rupert Gregson-Williams’ score for Wonder Woman… And it looks pretty good! Not only it re-arranges incredibly well the very few minutes of music Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL wrote for the character in Batman v Superman, but also adds a few new themes. Also, the track "Trafalgar Celebration", what should be the ending and end credits intro has a very ‘classic’ music IMO.
I was just wondering if he could take over the score of al least one of the Avatar sequels.
In any case I’d be hugely excited if Cameron choose Hans Zimmer… that would be two titans of cinematic entertainment together!
The only example that comes to mind for JNH is his African tinged score for "Blood Diamond".
Whereas that world/ethnic/tribal type music is precisely what makes me give an edge to Hans Zimmer. He’s very astute at bringing in many cultural influences — as exemplified in "Tears Of The Sun", ‘"The Thin Red Line", "King Arthur", "The Power Of One", "The Lion King", "Gladiator", "Prince Of Egypt", "Black Hawk Down", "The Last Samurai", ect.
I don’t recollect it, but you’re probably right. Also "Dinosaur" had some good African influences.
Out of curiosity, what are some of your approximate favorite JNH scores?
Mine are something like this:
01. Wyatt Earp
02. The Last Airbender
03. The Village
04. Snow Falling On Cedars
05. Waterworld
06. Signs
07. The Lady In The Water
08. Unbreakable
09. The Fugitive
10. Hidalgo
11. The Postman
12. The Sixth Sense
13. Dinosaur
14. The Prince Of Tides
15. Blood Diamond
16. King Kong
17. Snow White And The Huntsman
18. Defiance
19. The Hunger Games: Mockingbird pt. 2
20. Alive
01. The Hunger Games (all 4 movies), very nice scores.
02. Batman Begins / The Dark Knight (with Hans Zimmer), but I cannot really determine who wrote what.
03. Atlantis: The Lost Empire, very very good.
04. Fantastic Beast and Where to Find Them, nice but so great IMO.
05. King Kong, on a separate listening only, I found it very good.
06. The Fugitive, I saw the film, but the score wasn’t that interesting to me.
07. Blood Diamond, it was effective but I don’t recall any great moment from my single view of the film.
08. Unbreakable, I found it very very good, though not having that much music in the film. Also I found it in some way ‘experimental’, for the synth music in one of the major cues.
I’ve seen also Dinosaur, Snow White and the Huntsman and I listened to a few minutes of The Last Airbender.
And, yep, that’s all what I have listened / watched of James Newton Howard.
I guess my favourites are The Hunger Games saga, Atlantis: The Lost World.
Yep, I’ve got to "study" a lot! 😀
In my opinion "Snow Falling On Cedars" is simply a masterpiece in every way — one of the most beautiful constructs of cinema ever created. Without a doubt one of my absolute favorite films. James Newton Howard’s aching adagios and emphatic elegies are no small echo of the film’s profundity and grace.
Surely, there’s been serious conversations about engagements by this point.
It probably would be a good idea for Franglen to be involved. Maybe with more producorial input, but ultimately in the similar capacity as he was on the first under Horner rather than taking the lead. Replacing James Horner as primary composer is more than just mimicking his sound, but his impeccable decision process for storytelling. For that, I think it would be wise to employ someone with a proven track record of composing specifically for the subtext and nuanced emphasis of character driven narrative.
I feel it would be a mistake to bypass hiring someone more seasoned for the task. Especially when there are so many truly great established composers that deserve a chance at the big leagues and would provide something more interesting than just regurgitating an imitation of Horner.
I’d give James Newton Howard first rights to reject, and then I’d start conversations with under-utilized talents who can handle that Horner type of high emotional adventure world-new-age-ethereal-choral-ethnic-tribal-sound which seems to effortlessly blend the intimate with the mythic – such as Joel McNeely, Christopher Young, Trevor Jones, Graeme Revell, Richard Harvey, John Debney, Benjamin Wallfisch, David Arnold, Mark Mancina, or Marco Beltrami. Maybe Alan Silvestri or Bruce Broughton. Christopher Tin would be worth having a discussion with at least. What’s Steve Jablonsky up to these days, I bet he’d love to do something exactly like this right about now…
Search your heart, and you know Zimmer would do something incredible too.
A personal favourite of mine when it comes down to Western composers would be Christopher Young, his only blockbuster was Spider-Man 3 (which criminally has still no official release of the score) and he’s criminally underused in Hollywood. He could have done Doctor Strange, if Disney didn’t hire Giacchino instead.
I did come to know a few other composers from Japan, and as impossible as it is, I’d love someone of the likes of Yoko Kanno do a project like this, it’d be a dream. But alas, she won’t probably ever do a movie for Hollywood.
In the end it ultimately comes down to Cameron’s own decisions on the matter.
As much as a new composer would be recommended to give a fresh new approach to the music, I could not blame him for trying to stay close to a friend’s sound and try to accomplish this with one who has collaborated with Horner and Cameron a number of times already.
One thing, the score for "Avatar 2" has got to be great. It’s a must.
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