Music similarities

I’ve got two songs in my soundtrack collection that sound too similar to just be a coincidence. It appears to be something more along the lines of copying.

The first song is "Buckbeak’s Flight" from Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban score, released on May 25, 2004.

The second song is simply called "Flying Theme" from the straight-to-DVD movie, Bionicle 3:Web of Shadows, released on October 11, 2005.

What do you guys make of this? Are there any songs that you’ve found that sound nearly identical in terms of instruments used, tempo, rhythm–and the only thing that’s different is the melody? There are some other songs related to Bionicle with this…similarity, such as the song "Creeping in My Soul" which sounds almost exactly like Evanescence’s "Bring Me to Life".

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Someone tell me if this link is breaking any rules and/or needs to be taken down.

I’m not sure about rule breaking, but, not to be too pedantic, ‘Buckbeak’s Flight’ is not a song. It’s a cue, a track or a piece. But not a song. 🙂

I’m not sure about rule breaking, but, not to be too pedantic, ‘Buckbeak’s Flight’ is not a song. It’s a cue, a track or a piece. But not a song. 🙂

I don’t need that kind of correction. I fully understand the difference between a cue and a whole song. And, in fact, "Buckbeak’s Flight" is the entire song; the whole cue plays at the same time. I’m sorry; perhaps I should have used the word track instead of song. I thought there were people here who notice things like I do and would want to discuss them–not people who nitpick others’ mistakes.

You have a point… they do sound similar, though not exactly the same, unlike the 2nd half of king arthur’s "Do you think I’m saxon?" & the first 3 mins. of dead man’s chest’s "hello, beastie"… they do come close for 2 different composers who probably have never even met each other…

I’ve never seen King Arthur, nor do I have the soundtrack. There is another song I can think of that reminds me of the beginning of "Hello Beastie": Samuel Barber’s "Adagio for Strings"–but, again, nothing like the songs I started the thread with.

The composer of the Bionicle songs….cues, is Nathan Furst. I don’t know what else he’s done, but I suspect he’s a small scale composer. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some downright copying going on here.

I think this may be of some interest to you (Soundtrack Copy and Paste):
YouTube – [Soundtrack Copy and Paste] Rabin vs Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2QUTM-bIEE)

Copy and Paste, eh? That reminds me of another similarity kind of like the situation MasterZPrime presented. Take a listen to the start of Danny Elfman’s "Up and Out" (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", and then listen to the end of…Danny Elfman’s "Proposal/Down the Hole" (Alice in Wonderland). That’s some serious copy and paste.

The Jimmy Hart Version – Television Tropes & Idioms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheJimmyHartVersion)

Quite often, the director will throw some temp piece of music into a scene, for early viewing, and like it so much he (or she) demands the composer come up with something really close to the same thing. Thus, we hear a lot of the "Mars" movement from Holst’s "The Planets" ("Gladiator" comes immediately to mind) and lots of complaints (years ago in another forum) that James Horner is ripping off other composers (when all he’s really doing is meeting the director’s expectations — often, it’s something he’s already done in an earlier film, possibly for the same director). Other times, though, it may be in homage to an earlier film, as I suspect "Banjo’s theme" in Marcello Giombini’s 1970 "Sabata" is when it references the theme from George Duning’s 1957 "3:10 to Yuma."

Agreed. Usually when this kind of thing happens, it is the producer’s handiwork. Most composers chafe at the idea of plagiarizing other peoples’ work.

Agreed. Usually when this kind of thing happens, it is the producer’s handiwork. Most composers chafe at the idea of plagiarizing other peoples’ work.

The Academy aren’t head over heels either…

Other times, though, it may be in homage to an earlier film, as I suspect "Banjo’s theme" in Marcello Giombini’s 1970 "Sabata" is when it references the theme from George Duning’s 1957 "3:10 to Yuma."

Like Hans Zimmer’s "Parlay" from At World’s End is an homage to Ennio Morricone’s "The Man with the Harmonica". Or how the Davy Jones theme was inspired by…Ennio Moricone’s "La Resa Dei Conti". I guess there are just some songs that I like to hear in different "forms" regardless of how they ended up sounding similar to each other. I’ve heard it happens a lot in pop music, as well.

And then there’s Quentin Tarantino, whose "Kill Bill" films and "The Inglourious Basterds" just go ahead and use actual themes from other movies, with (what seems to me) special interest in the stirring works of Ennio Morricone. Then again, he’s been influenced by the chop-socky films from Hong Kong — at least one of which I recall from back in the day that made liberal use of themes from other movies. It’s a little startling to hear music associated with Darth Vader when an Asian actor’s mouth is moving at 50 mph and the English-dubbed voice seems to drag at 20 mph (as parodied in the "Police Academy" films).

You have a point, The Dimensioner. Pop music is filled with both accidental and intentional duplications. George Harrison’s "My Sweet Lord" sounded so much like The Chiffons’ "He’s So Fine" that the courts ordered the ex-Beatle to surrender his royalties to the company that owned the rights to "He’s So Fine." (Harrison eventually bought the company, which means he got royalties from both songs.) The judge called it "subconscious" copying.

The modern technique of sampling has brought with it other concerns. Jan Hammer, composer for the "Miami Vice" TV series, was sued for having sampled David Earle Johnson’s rare Nigerian log drums in the show’s theme music without his permission, but Hammer ended up winning that court case, according to Wikipedia. I think it should be obvious, though, that the lawyers were the true winners. Every time.

But I digress. There are popular songs that rework themes from classical music, and scholars will tell you a lot of classical music is derivative of folk songs or other popular music of the composer’s day. And Morricone has been known to reference classical works in his own film music — the Wild Bunch theme from "My Name Is Nobody" draws from Richard Wagner’s "Ride of the Valkyries" from the "Ring" cycle of operas.

Seems as if I’m lecturing now. My apologies. Thank you, The Dimensioner," for bringing up the topic. I’ll be quiet now and go sit in the corner and listen to my music …

I don’t need that kind of correction. I fully understand the difference between a cue and a whole song. And, in fact, "Buckbeak’s Flight" is the entire song; the whole cue plays at the same time. I’m sorry; perhaps I should have used the word track instead of song. I thought there were people here who notice things like I do and would want to discuss them–not people who nitpick others’ mistakes.

You don’t understand… A ‘song’ is a piece of popular music. A ‘cue’ is a piece of film music. The correct naming would be ‘cue’.[COLOR="Silver"]

The latter one is truly obvious as INCEPTION rip-off!
1. Mombasa, by Hans Zimmer
2. Mass vs. Acceleration, by Michael Wandmacher
‪Inception & Drive Angry – Music Comparison‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa7MSyfTTlg)

Ah, yes, thanks for that addition. Here’s another great one: Zack Hemsey’s "Mind Heist" (Inception trailer music) vs. Steve Jablonsky’s "It’s Our Fight" from Transformers 3.

And @StarWarsFan786, thanks for correcting me on a post made roughly 11 months ago. You don’t think I know better by now…well, I do. Please tell me, though: what’s wrong in using the word track versus the word cue? You don’t know–the track "Buckbeak’s Flight" could be made up of several cues. What do you call a group of cues that play consecutively? I call them a track.

I think Bear McCreary had the piece ‘November 25 Morning’ in mind, from Philip Glass Mishima, when he started to write his own ‘Prelude to War’ for Battlestar Galactica 😉

‪Zatoichi | Philip Glass; November 25 Morning‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfOHHipnjmw)

‪17- Prelude to War‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs)

Interesting thread. Once watched a japanese gangster film with George Delerue’s score from "crimes of passion" completely stolen. Don’t know how they managed that. Memory if failing me but parts of Horner’s score to"search for spock" are E.T. & the throne room scene from "star wars" mirrors parts of "the ten commandments". Windham hill score for "country" too close to "superman". Its a wonder the’re aren’t more libel cases but maybe thats due to
the studios owning the music more than the composer and maybe thats their decision to reuse certain cues they will will work in different situations. Anyway for the fans…its all good.

Danny Elfman: The Next Three Days – Breakout ‪The Next Three Days Soundtrack – Breakout‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC4lpmoHxek) start at :30

John Powell: The Bourne Supremacy – The Drop ‪John Powell – The Drop (The Bourne Supremacy Soundtrack)‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wzT1QRXoe4)

James Newton Howard: Salt – Escaping The Cia ‪02 – Escaping the CIA (James Newton Howard) – Salt Soundtrack‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48040ANm7Y) start at :52

They all use the same type of string structure and rhythm and melody. Actually John’s action style came first 🙂

———- Post added at 08:29 PM ———- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ———-

Steve Jablonsky: Your Highness – Goodbye My Tinys ‪Your Highness – Goodbye My Tinys‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP5HbYKSdqc)

Sherlock Holmes music :00 to :33
Pirates / Jack Sparrow Variation: :34 to 1:12 and from 2:24 to end
National Treasure: 1:43 to 2:00

Don’t get me started on how many later themes and similar musical structures from King Arthur get used in later Hans Zimmer or RCP scores! The first one that immediately comes to mind is that the main theme to Transformers 2 was totally ripped from an arrangement found on the King Arthur Recording Sessions, which I will have to find later. This might be my finely tuned ears, but there are several occurrences of music in the King Arthur recording sessions that only last but 5 or so seconds that have been lifted and reused, most commonly, in the third Pirates movie.

I’ll have to add to this post when I have all the tracks side by side for comparison, which will probably be tomorrow.

omg every song from the King Arthur soundtrack must have been the foundation for every future cue Hans Zimmer has written in the last 10 years lol.

I’m going to document everyone when I have the time…..he is a genius, but at best recycler of cues lol.

Don’t forget Harry Gregson-Williams’ nearly identical orchestration for the scores of Deja Vu and Unstoppable. They’re even in the same keys. Both a great scores, though…so he gets a pass in my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNfkLppRcjg

Prince Caspian VS Alice in Wonderland

I never noticed that before! If the Prince Caspian cue were to continue on, it would start to sound like the beginning of "I Don’t Think Now is the Best Time" from the At World’s End OST.

That reminds me: Pirates of the Caribbean vs Alice in Wonderland. The three note rise found very early on in Alice’s Theme is also used a bit in Dead Man’s Chest, some more in At World’s End, and a bit more in On Stranger Tides.

Also, in this post, you will find a brief review of the similarities I’ve found between King Arthur and other RCP music. These are more like just small clips of similar-sounding music rather than whole tracks/cues that were copied. The tracks named here are from the 3CD version of King Arthur found here on the Shrine.

Disc 1, Track 7, Back to Hadrian’s Wall has similar chords as What Shall We Die For from AWE. The chords return again, sounding more like the AWE version in the Transformers 3 track, Sentinel Prime.
Disc 1, Track 29, Arthur & Merlin (memories). A 20-second-long segment in the middle of the track was lifted and reused in an unreleased track from AWE commonly named "Escape from the Flying Dutchman," or "Part of the Ship, Part of the Crew".
Disc 2, Track 2, The Ice Battle, near the end of the first cue in this track. This is only one example of the main theme from Transformers 2.
Disc 2, Track 2, The Ice Battle, toward the end of the second cue. Another 13-second cue lifted and reused in the first half of "I Don’t Think Now is the Best Time."
…And that’s all I have documented. There also several occurrences of an arrangement that sounds very much like the end of "December 7th" from Pearl Harbor, but I guess in this case, Pearl Harbor came first. Also, there are multiple occurrences of a theme and instrument early on that seem to have inspired Bootstrap Bill’s theme from AWE (Sadly Bootstrap’s theme only gets used twice).

Since we’re on the subject, here’s another pair of tracks that are way too close to be coincidence. The offender this time: John Debney, who in "The Ant Bully" simply redoes a track from James Newton Howard’s "Atlantis" with very little variation.

Listen for yourself — impossible to miss.
John Debney, from "The Ant Bully": MEGAUPLOAD – The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=824OEDTW)
James Newton Howard, from "Atlantis": MEGAUPLOAD – The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IFQABEMA)

I should also note that the ending of that Debney track mimics ANOTHER track from Howard’s "Atlantis." I’ve often wondered how composers get away with it when the similarities are THIS close.

No, Buckbeak’s flight is a cue. Cue = Track

Great, thanks. Look, the point of this thread isn’t to teach me about proper musical terms. Read the title of the thread, and if you don’t have anything to add to it, then stop posting here.

From King Arthur
Woad to Ruin – 7:44 to 7:53 the Kraken theme: POTC: Dead Man’s Chest
Do You ThinK I’m A Saxon – 4:44 to 5:18 I Don’t Think Now Is The Best Time the middle of that track, the scene when the ship sinks: POTC: At World’s End
Hold The Ice – 2:26 to 3:25 Variation of At Wit’s End: POTC: At World’s End
Another Brick In Hadrian’s Wall – 1:10 to 1:37 Like A Cat Chasing Dogs: Batman Returns

You guys are all forgetting the biggest "music similarity" of all time.

First: Elliot Goldenthal’s "Titus Main Theme" ‪Elliot Goldenthal – Victorius Titus‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gN4NWTDdp8)

And then: Tyler Bates’s 300 – "Returns a King" ‪300 OST – Returns a King (HD Stereo)‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAZsf8mTfyk)

In fact, it was so "similar" that Warner Bros. got sued over it and they had to issue a public apology.

Ilan Eshkeri – Stardust – "Lamia’s Inn": Listen to this from 3:00 onwards ‪Lamia's Inn – Stardust Soundtrack – Ilan Eshkeri‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oydFyUU-ufI&feature=related)

Wojciech Kilar – Dracula – "Vampire Hunters": ‪"Bram Stoker's "Dracula"" – "Vampire Hunters (Track 2)" – Wojciech Kilar‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7sjUfwGd8)

No, Buckbeak’s flight is a cue. Cue = Track
Nope, you’re also wrong. Cue DOES NOT EQUAL Track. But as Dimensioner said, this isn’t the topic of the thread.

Steve jablonsky is a master in borrowing themes:)
Dead Already from American Beauty in first Transformers, Last Samurai in third…

You guys are all forgetting the biggest "music similarity" of all time.

First: Elliot Goldenthal’s "Titus Main Theme" ‪Elliot Goldenthal – Victorius Titus‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gN4NWTDdp8)

And then: Tyler Bates’s 300 – "Returns a King" ‪300 OST – Returns a King (HD Stereo)‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAZsf8mTfyk)

In fact, it was so "similar" that Warner Bros. got sued over it and they had to issue a public apology.

What appalls me still is how some will say Bates’ version is better. Been looking for that apology (at least a screenshot) and can’t find. Drat. 🙁

300 (http://www.300ondvd.com/300.html)

Look at the bottom. And I quote: "A number of the music cues for the score of "300" were, without our knowledge or participation, derived from music composed by Academy Award winning composer Elliot Goldenthal for the motion picture "Titus." Warner Bros. Pictures has great respect for Elliot, our longtime collaborator, and is pleased to have amicably resolved this matter."

^ Audio samples (http://www.amazon.com/Conan-Barbarian-Music-Motion-Picture/dp/B005BSW31U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1312550910&sr=8-3) from the new Conan score are released if anyone is interested… Since Tyler Bates had no qualms about copying from Titus, couldn’t he do the same for Conan and Poledouris…?

Another similarity, already mentioned in another thread: "Cloak & Dagger" from Solomon Kane (Klaus Badelt) has some similarities to themes from Hans Zimmer’s Batman.

One that’s always bugged me (since I heard it) is the similarities between "Ghosts of Things to Come" from Requiem for a Dream by Clint Mansell, and "Cerebro" from X2: X-Men United by John Ottman. Now, I heard Cerebro first, and didn’t hear Ghosts of Things to Come until this year, but damn, the similarities can’t be a coincidence. The use of cello is exactly the same.

‪Requiem For a Dream-Ghosts of things to come‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9AetP9LyKc)

Sorry, don’t have a youtube link for Cerebro, so here’s a download link:

Multiupload.com – upload your files to multiple file hosting sites! (http://www.multiupload.com/IFUP55JWUX)

As I was just listening to this, I thought I’d post it here. I couldn’t give exact times for this but a portion near the end of Danny Elfman’s "Main Titles" for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory sounds very much like a portion near the end of Danny Elfman’s "Main Title" for Spider-Man. It’s kind of like a climax, like the music reaches its height at this point.

Not to mention, Danny Elfman totally reused the chords found in several tracks from Charlie again in Alice In Wonderland’s main theme. And he definitely used a portion of "Up and Out" in "Proposal/Down the Hole." This probably resulted from more of that temp work like MasterZPrime spoke about a long time ago. "Up and Out" was used in one of the Alice in Wonderland trailers in the exact scene that "Down the Hole" then gets used in. Pretty complicated, right? No, it just takes lots of words, lol.

I think Bear McCreary had the piece ‘November 25 Morning’ in mind, from Philip Glass Mishima, when he started to write his own ‘Prelude to War’ for Battlestar Galactica 😉

‪Zatoichi | Philip Glass; November 25 Morning‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfOHHipnjmw)

‪17- Prelude to War‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs)

Wouldnt be surprised at all. Bear is a fan of Glass (As most of us in the industry are 😛 )

———- Post added at 09:21 AM ———- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ———-

You guys are all forgetting the biggest "music similarity" of all time.

First: Elliot Goldenthal’s "Titus Main Theme" ‪Elliot Goldenthal – Victorius Titus‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gN4NWTDdp8)

And then: Tyler Bates’s 300 – "Returns a King" ‪300 OST – Returns a King (HD Stereo)‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAZsf8mTfyk)

In fact, it was so "similar" that Warner Bros. got sued over it and they had to issue a public apology.
Yeah, Tyler rarely talks about it. I heard he got in alot of shit over it.

I can’t hear the themes from "Downton Abbey" without hearing Michael Kamen’s theme from "The Piano." I think there’s a bit of appropriated inspiration going on there. I don’t think the former would exist without the latter.

I noticed an unusual music similarity just yesterday in John Debney’s score to Hocus Pocus. Listen to the track "Witches Tricked/Safe Again?" and you will notice the brother/sister theme alternates off and on between one of Jerry Goldsmith’s Poltergeist themes to one of John Williams’s E.T. themes. Kinda took me by surprise seeing as how the rest of the score was completely original music.

Correction: every cue featuring the brother/sister theme.

1. Leaving Hogwarts = Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
The Next Morning/Mom Returns/Finale = Home Alone

2. Prelude And Main Title = Superman: The Movie
Main Title/Rebel Blockade Runner = Star Wars: A New Hope

3. Marion’s Theme = Raiders of the Lost Ark
Han Solo And The Princess: Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back

4. The Medallion Calls = Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black pearl
King Arthur Main Theme = King Arthur

Kaveh Cohen and Michael Nielson worked on "Legend" as used for the trailer for in X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
It sounds a lot like Returns A King/Glorious Titus.
‪Legend – Groove Addicts‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=N83HuJn8TyA#t=51s)

Steve jablonsky is a master in borrowing themes:)
Dead Already from American Beauty in first Transformers, Last Samurai in third…

In my opinion,S Jablonsky is one the shameless composers I ‘d ever known,when I listen to his scores,I only feel Hans Zimmer and nothing more

Transfomers 2 – ‪Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (The Original Score) – Einstein's Wrong‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIw_YcLnsew)
Thor – ‪Hammer Found – Patrick Doyle‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQSlVumHHM)

The Edge – ‪The Edge soundtrack: Track 1: Lost in the wild‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BzewEHpHXk)
Time Machine – ‪The Time Machine OST 6 I Don't Belong Here‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsbprxZbaJY)

James Horner was notorious for plagiarising himself – if you listen to his early scores for Battle Beyond the Stars and Wolfen, bits of them clearly reoccur in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Aliens years later.

Also see Graeme Revell, who managed to use EXACTLY the same music from the end of Strange Days in an instrumental version for an emotional scene in Red Planet!

The scores for The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford and The Road are almost identical.
They are both made by Nick Cave and Warren Ellis and it’s apparent they didn’t exactly write any new material for The Road.

Same goes for the theme in the Deus Ex Trailer ‪Deus Ex Human Revolution E3 2010 Trailer [HD]‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6JTvzrpBy0) which is essentially a Synth version of "Freedom Fighters"
by Two Steps from Hell. Now I dont know if they simpy used that cue, since TSFH makes Trailer music but on the Deus Ex Website the game’s
composer is credited for the music in the trailer and you can even download the song there.

In my opinion,S Jablonsky is one the shameless composers I ‘d ever known,when I listen to his scores,I only feel Hans Zimmer and nothing more

In my opinion, Steve Jablonsky’s compositions for Transformers are some of the greatest scores in my collection, and I’ve never noticed any similarity to Hans Zimmer in them. But these words are only an opinion and so are yours, as well as some of the other posts earlier. I didn’t really want this thread to be about bashing the composers whose music sounds like others’ music.

I don’t like to use aggressive words but his score are so similar to Hans Zimmers’ works to such a degree that I feel very unispired and tetchy,sorry

‪Gladiator Soundtrack – 17 – Now We Are Free‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHAvjaHtlMA)
‪Hans Zimmer – Injection‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3iAzdbg3mo)
‪The Island – 14 "My Name Is Lincoln"‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iu-t1n821M)

Always thought that most of "The Battle" from Gladiator sounds WAY too much different parts of the Pirates soundtracks to be coincidence.

You’re right about that, Alaethancar. I’ve never listened to the Gladiator score before, but hearing that one track has interested me quite a bit, because I am a huge Pirates fan. The theme I heard most clearly sounded like an inversion or like a rearrangement of notes from one of the central Pirates themes. Except I guess it’s Pirates that is copying Gladiator.

Thanks for that.

First of all, please do not say that Gladiator sounds like any of the POTC because Gladiator was composed first. The POTC composers re-used and expanded upon some of the themes from Gladiator. I alway hate it when people say that, but Gladiator was first and done better in my opinion. Also, someone mentioned on here that "Do You Think I’m Saxon?" from King Arthur sounds eerily similar to "Hello Beastie" from Dead Man’s Chest. Well of course they do, they’re by the same composer. But it is scary how similar the those two cues are, or tracks…whatever. Anyway, that’s my two cents. Thanks.

POTC: The Curse of the Black Pearl is one very unoriginal score. Aside from the obvious similarities to previous Hans Zimmer/Remote Control/Media Ventures works, the very first notes of the first track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meb_4cEriyw) are clearly inspired by "Training Montage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKurYMe1Ba8)", from the soundtrack of "The Count of Montecristo".

There are many, many examples of composers rehashing their own material, writing music that resembles too closely the temp-track they were told to mimic, or blatant rip-offs.

POTC: The Curse of the Black Pearl is one very unoriginal score.

Tsk, tsk. This sounds like an opinion. Sure you may be able to account for a few notes here and there that resemble arrangements from past works but you can’t really say that about the entire score.

On a different note, you’ve been a member here a whole year, and this is your first post?

Also, check out these videos and notice the similarities between the two:

Journey to the Line, from The Thin Red Line by Hans Zimmer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOFZSnz9J3s)
Look Around You, from We Were Soldiers by Nick Glennie-Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR8HgDecelI)
For the track "Look Around You", the first minute or so is similar to The Thin Red Line’s overall score, however, just skip to about 2:44 into the song for the real similarities to shine forth.

Tsk, tsk. This sounds like an opinion. Sure you may be able to account for a few notes here and there that resemble arrangements from past works but you can’t really say that about the entire score.
The whole score is an arrangement of past works. That’s pretty much the definition of unoriginal. I know this score is a favourite of many soundtrack aficionados and in many cases their introduction to film music. I have a younger cousin who loved the music and knowing that I have a rather large collection of soundtracks asked me if I had it. When I told him that I didn’t because it sounded a lot like many other scores that I owned, he couldn’t believe me. A time later he told me he had listened to "The Rock" and that he understood my point of view.

Nowadays film scores usually are similar to other film scores, most of the time due to the producers or the director, who want a certain kind of music in their films. If we take older scores we’ll also find references to even older scores or other music works. We have to learn to live with it. There are many great scores that borrow heavily from several sources with great results, and let’s face it, temp-tracking is not going anywhere.

On a different note, you’ve been a member here a whole year, and this is your first post?
Yes.

I was listening to "The Rock" soundtrack then I heard this part:
‪soundtrack hans zimmer the rock the chase‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCGLAjYoNtA&feature=player_detailpage#t=99s)
1:39 -> 1:46

Is it me or this where the idea of the main pirates theme came from? I could be wrong.

on another note it’s not a bad thing for composers to be inspired by other composers work, but copying and pasting like Jabalonsky’s Transformers "it’s our fight" from Zack Hemsey’s Mind Heist is just asking to be sued.

It is no secret that Elfman is a great fan of Bernard Herrmann, and considers him a major inspiration to become a film music composer.

Here is a curious example. Listen this track from Herrmann Journey to the Center of the Earth. Pay attention to the music sequence from 0:39 to 1:05.

‪Bernard Herrmann – Mountain Top/Sunrise‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beY6KfNJwDM#t=0m38s)

🙂 That’s right! It’s similar to the opening phrase of Elfman Batman Main Title credits, as you can hear it here on the first 45 seconds:

‪Batman Main theme‬‏ – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ydxgekFls)

on another note it’s not a bad thing for composers to be inspired by other composers work, but copying and pasting like Jabalonsky’s Transformers "it’s our fight" from Zack Hemsey’s Mind Heist is just asking to be sued.

Yeah, but I checked out Hemsey’s blog shortly after the score came out and he said it’s not like he has the right to music using those instruments or a combination of notes resembling his compositions. I don’t think he has any grounds to sue.

"Saving Buckbeak" And "The Little People Work" sounds alike

I’d say most of the score for Jablonskys Dark of the Moon soundtrack is just blatant, poorly disguised copying. A little over two min into "I’m Just the Messenger" I had to double check to make sure a remix of "Requiem for a Dream" hadn’t slipped into the mix somehow. I also caught bits of Inception, The Dark Knight, Star Trek, Iron Man, X-men 2 and a few other films throughout.

psycho theme – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKAEPz7bqqo)

Re-Animator Theme – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlU1LRR2-Es)

Similar don’t you think? :laugh:

First of all, please do not say that Gladiator sounds like any of the POTC because Gladiator was composed first. The POTC composers re-used and expanded upon some of the themes from Gladiator. I alway hate it when people say that, but Gladiator was first and done better in my opinion.

He said they sound similar, not that Gladiator copied POTC. Just that there are similarities. You can argue phrasing of the statement all you want, but they’ll still sound similar.

I don’t know how anybody has missed this, because it’s a really long bit of music:
The last third of "Journey to the Line," by Hans Zimmer, and the last third of "Science and Religion," also by Hans Zimmer.

Science and Religion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr506tGnwh8) – From 8:30
Journey to the Line (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG9-j3eevL4) – From 6:10

They’re insanely similar, identical in many places.

I know Michael Giacchino is diefied around here, but he isn’t perfect.

Take a listen to these two tracks.

The first is from the 2002 film The Count of Monte Cristo, by Edward Shearmur:

The Count Of Monte Cristo- Betrayed – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EXimYKAzTU)

The second is from the 2006 film M:I:III by Giacchino:

factory rescue MI 3.wmv – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOnu7Ef8agU)

Not exactly dissimilar, are they?

POTC: The Curse of the Black Pearl is one very unoriginal score. Aside from the obvious similarities to previous Hans Zimmer/Remote Control/Media Ventures works, the very first notes of the first track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meb_4cEriyw) are clearly inspired by "Training Montage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKurYMe1Ba8)", from the soundtrack of "The Count of Montecristo".

There are many, many examples of composers rehashing their own material, writing music that resembles too closely the temp-track they were told to mimic, or blatant rip-offs.

Meh, I’m not convinced here. Using the same instrument frequently makes it sound the same.

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t The Rock Theme sound similar to one of the themes from the Peacemaker?

Brian Tyler – Battle LA: The War Hymn at the end, it sounds like Steve Jablonsky – Transformers: Decepticons (or the Frenzy, Deciphering the Signal tracks, one of those 3).

War Hymn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Bn2H2YNdY&feature=player_detailpage#t=132s)

Decepticons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqgpfxnjOtQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=120s)

Oh boy

The Myth – The Discovery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MZafbdT4g)
Pirates of the Caribbean – Barbossa is Hungry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbnlZk_Obuc)

Oh boy

The Myth – The Discovery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MZafbdT4g)
Pirates of the Caribbean – Barbossa is Hungry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbnlZk_Obuc)

pirates – 2003
the myth – 2005

Woah! That was close–thanks for checking that, tom. Look at the dopy comment left under the Myth link.

Desplat coppied Poledouris. Yes I’m serious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=133NFzboskA Starship Troopers – Punishment/Asteroid Grazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvWB7AQi9Ao Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2 – Panic Inside Hogwarts

Horner coppied Howard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj85hSksOSg Waterworld – Deacon’s Speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhI9qbdJokk Titanic – The Sinking

Patrick Doyle coppied Jablonsky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOXGunV_orE Thor – Hammer Found
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIw_YcLnsew Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen – Einstein’s Wrong

And Djawadi did too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq-wcXpxr0w Medal of Honor – High Ground

Djawadi coppied Debney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIJi5Q10kDE Medal of Honor – Taking The Field
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEN138aSFAw&feature=related Iron Man 2 – Sledgehammer MK2

My thoughts exactly – add in Krull – all the music sounds like it could be from the same movie.

James Horner was notorious for plagiarising himself – if you listen to his early scores for Battle Beyond the Stars and Wolfen, bits of them clearly reoccur in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Aliens years later.

Also see Graeme Revell, who managed to use EXACTLY the same music from the end of Strange Days in an instrumental version for an emotional scene in Red Planet!

"Rectifier" from TRON: Legacy reminds me a lot of the beginning of Blackbeard’s theme from Pirates of the Caribbean 4.

…I suppose I should reword that, since TRON came first. But, I heard it after I heard the Pirates music first. Sometimes it is a matter of perspective in what music sounds like other music depending on which one you encountered first. I don’t think there’s copying here; just a curious similarity. I’m sure this arrangement can be found in older music.

The climax part of "The Fight Will be Your Own" from TF3 reminds me of Eptesicus from the Batman Begins OST at 2:40 to 3:05. Of course, what I really mean is the other way around–I heard TF3 first, and as of yesterday, have just gotten into Batman. But I know Batman came first.

psycho theme – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKAEPz7bqqo)

Re-Animator Theme – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlU1LRR2-Es)

Similar don’t you think? :laugh:

And how about Charles Bernsteins Main Theme to THE ENTITY that got ripped by Richard Band in THE CALLER

(that�s atleast two strikes for Band)

And how about Charles Bernsteins Main Theme to THE ENTITY that got ripped by Richard Band in THE CALLER

(that�s atleast two strikes for Band)

I don’t know. I haven’t heard any of them.

Here is a bit from a track of Stardust, that resembles the Vampire Hunters from Dracula composed by Wojciech Kilar. Check it out:

"Bram Stoker’s "Dracula"" – "Vampire Hunters (Track 2)" – Wojciech Kilar – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7sjUfwGd8)

Lamia’s Inn – Stardust Soundtrack – Ilan Eshkeri – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oydFyUU-ufI#t=03m57s)

What about

SHERLOCK HOLMES – main theme, by Zimmer

and

CHAYENNE THEME – Morricone (Once upon a time in the west)

Shame on you Hans!

I don’t know. I haven’t heard any of them.

Here is a bit from a track of Stardust, that resembles the Vampire Hunters from Dracula composed by Wojciech Kilar. Check it out:

"Bram Stoker’s "Dracula"" – "Vampire Hunters (Track 2)" – Wojciech Kilar – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7sjUfwGd8)

Lamia’s Inn – Stardust Soundtrack – Ilan Eshkeri – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oydFyUU-ufI#t=03m57s)

The ressemblance is indeed uncanny. Just two notes seem different. but not really surprising as Kilar did one hell of a job on Dracula, so it’s normal I suppose to see people making reference to it in horror score dedicated to movies pertaining to the fantastic.

Battle beyond the stars soundtrack:
Battle Beyond The Stars OST 11 The Hunter – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V3sjCG6RSA)

is similar to Star Trek TMP soundtrack:
Star Trek The Motion Picture Klingon Battle – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wJRrvVgZI)

And that’s just one example. 🙂

Ah, yes, thanks for that addition. Here’s another great one: Zack Hemsey’s "Mind Heist" (Inception trailer music) vs. Steve Jablonsky’s "It’s Our Fight" from Transformers 3.

Another one with "It’s Our Fight", very, very similar, with the track "Agressive Expansion" from The Dark Knight.

Here’s the comparison:

It’s Our Fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nff3Bj09glk), at 42 secondes.

And Agressive Expansion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNjwPy6Pp9M), at 3:09.

i was hoping someone would mention that one (‘it’s our fight’ vs. ‘aggressive expansion’)… sooo blatant… dark of the moon really is like a ‘greatest hits’ collection from: begins, dark knight, inception, requiem for a dream, armageddon, the rock, etc… but, hey- it works, right? only 12 notes…

and let’s not forget- check out ‘main titles’ from trevor jones’ dark city… notice anything?
first correct answer wins a clock tower that can survive a lightning strike.

p.s. in elfman’s defense: his style(s) are inimitable. many have tried, none have succeeded. he is absolutely self-referential… he’s admitted to it… still, no other composer working today has the variety of styles, colors, or dynamics he works in- example: how different are ‘next three days’, ‘alice’, ‘salvation’, ‘milk’, and ‘dead presidents’? indeed.

Do tell what portions of DotM remind you of Inception and Requiem for a Dream. I am familiar with both those scores and have never thought of any similarities. Also, keep in mind that the purpose of this thread is not to bash the composers that you feel are "unoriginal", it’s just a place to document music that sounds similar to other music.

not bashing jablonsky, zimmer, et al… actually a huge fan of those guys- the point i’m making is that jablonsky may be subconsciously hinting at those scores to evoke an emotion- which i am not only okay with, but, given the chance as a composer, would also do when i could

‘requiem’ is most obvious 1:14 into ‘the battle’ from ‘dark of the moon’…. ‘inception’ is less blatant- more in the low brass, percussion sections of ‘shockwave’s revenge’.

fascinated by this topic- a constant problem for me in that when i am writing, i have a hard time with pieces that sound like something else and coming up with ‘new’ ideas… again, there are only 12 notes after all and how they are rearranged and organized is always going to be the metric for whether music is original or not… i would much rather hear strong, emotional, transcendent music- even if it is a bit derivative…. imitation can often be very subversive emotionally… and i have no problem with that

cheers-

Hey, I decided to take a listen to "The Dark Knight" by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard. Just thought I’d document the fact that 1:42 to 2:08 of "Introduce a Little Anarchy" sounds a lot like 0:33 to around 0:47 of "Sector 7" from Steve Jablonsky’s "Transformers". And I can say that because TDK came out after Transformers. Also, returning to this:

The climax part of "The Fight Will be Your Own" from TF3 reminds me of Eptesicus from the Batman Begins OST at 2:40 to 3:05. Of course, what I really mean is the other way around–I heard TF3 first, and as of yesterday, have just gotten into Batman. But I know Batman came first.

I can say I am continuing to hear this same theme from "Eptesicus" reappearing throughout TDK. And more similarity mostly unrelated to what I’ve discussed so far is that of a theme from Lord of the Rings and a theme from Inception. Two scores you wouldn’t think would be comparable, right? I’m still trying to find a decent example of the theme from LotR, and as soon as I do, I’ll be sure to post it here.

Also, to any mods that might happen across this thread, it could probably be moved to here: Non Video Game / Animu Music Forum (http://forums.ffshrine.org/non-video-game-animu-music-forum/). I didn’t know about that forum when I started this thread, and I also know that that forum gets a hell of a lot less traffic than this one, but it may be a more appropriate place for this thread (if anyone objects to its current location).

That theme in "The Fight Will Be Your Own" appears in another place as well. Aside from its recurrence in the Batman scores, it makes a brief appearance in the TF1 unused track "Battle"….Still working on that LotR-Inception similarity.

The "Roman" theme from Miklos Rozsa’s Ben-Hur sounds somewhat like the Death Mountain theme from A Link to the Past.

2:25 and 2:29 from Naval battle
Ben-Hur OST – Naval Battle – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ompY9x8ovoM)

Death Mountain
The Legend of Zelda A Link to the Past Music: Death Mountain & Skull Woods – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKZDBZBP1w)

Okay, I’ve found one of them: Disc 3, Track 8 of the Two Towers Complete Recordings, "Retreat" from 3:17 to 3:31 kind of sounds like the early parts of "Dream is Collapsing" from Inception. The best example is if you could find just he rear channels of the DVD audio for Inception’s end credits. Same kind of chord progressions, no?

Since I can’t seem to find a decent example of the other theme, I’ll just use what I know. From the "Prologue" of the Fellowship of the Ring Complete Recordings, 2:00 to 2:13 bears a striking resemblance to the progression of "528491" from Inception. I know there are better examples of this theme in LotR, but with all the complete recordings and all the original scores, it’s just too much music for me to sort through to find the best possible example.

Oh, and two more side notes: one thing I need it a bit of help with, and another that I just find interesting…First: By now, everyone ought to have the complete demos of Pirates 4. The cue "6m60 Spanish Arrive" 0:51 to 1:27, the strings not the vocals, sound extremely familiar to me, but I don’t know why. My best guess is: the theme heard in "One Simple Idea" from Inception, but I am not satisfied with that guess.

And second: David Arnold and Micheal Price’s score for Sherlock (series one) sounds surprisingly similar to Hans Zimmer’s score for Sherlock Holmes. I just find it odd considering Zimmer was going for a unique one-of-kind sound for his Sherlock (at least that’s what I remember reading when the score was new) and then that style gets picked up by someone else…for Sherlock.

Prince Caspian & Alice in Wonderland PLAGIARISM – YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNfkLppRcjg)

Prince Caspian VS Alice in Wonderland

I think I can add to this particular similarity. I’ve just recently downloaded an expanded version of "The Day After Tomorrow" found here: Thread 111417. It appears that the first track follows a similar note progression as that found in the Prince Caspian and Alice in Wonderland tracks.

With the recent release of this Thread 111920 (which at the time of this post is a work in progress), I can finally point out a similarity that’s been bugging me since I saw Transformers 3. Now, I know it’s most likely a given that Hans Zimmer either had a hand in this particular cue of Steve Jablonsky’s score OR they were just thinking, "Ah, this theme isn’t such a big deal; nobody will notice this theme from Pirates of the Caribbean getting reused in Transformers 3." Well, I noticed.

First, take the time to download what’s posted in that thread above as it has some unbelievably clean tracks in it. Second, find the track titled "Saving Carly". Making two appearances in that track is a somewhat famous theme from Pirates present in, I think, all of the movies yet it is something that never quite made it on to any of the soundtracks. The best example of the theme I’m talking about can be heard in the Pirates 4 complete demos (from scoreman) in the cue "5m40c – The Cliff Alt". The theme also makes an appearance during Elizabeth’s blood ritual, I think in the first Pirates and during the game of liar’s Dice in Pirates 2 and possibly all over Pirates 4 (not so much in Pirates 3, though).

Oh, Dimensioner, I’m so glad to see someone contributing to this thread! Let me just continue adding to it. The similarities I’m going to point out are not in the same category as a lot of the others I’ve identified but maybe similar to the kind that other people here have identified. Instead of finding a melody or arrangement that appears across multiple films where it either has no business showing up or the composers are just lazy…what I’m describing below is more of a similar structure or layout of the music. It’s kind of like I’m listening to a whole track (as opposed to a few seconds) and am thinking, "Huh, this sort of sounds like something I’ve heard in the past." So enough setup–here’s what I’ve got.

Listening to "Neville the Hero" from Alexandre Desplat’s Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Part II, reminded me very much of the second cue/part of "Anakin’s Betrayal" from John Williams’ Star Wars: Episode III. They both begin quietly and kind of somber–maybe they aren’t in exactly the same key but they sort of follow the same kind of note structure. The difference is that the emotions in "Anakin’s Betrayal" are darker than those heard in "Neville the Hero". Both tracks transition into a louder bit of music, but "Neville" switches to being joyous music while "Anakin" switches to being angry music. I have not seen Harry Potter and haven’t watched Star Wars for quite a long time so I have no idea how similar the actions onscreen are that follow both of these tracks.

Staying in The Deathly Hollows, I’ve found another track that is comparable to something from the fourth Pirates of the Caribbean movie. "Voldemort’s End" starting around 50 seconds in is structured like "Blackbeard’s Demise" from Pirates. They both start out with a lower-volume bit of music, which explodes into pure epicness (excuse the cheesiness). But it’s sad epicness that could only be the right music to play during an important character’s death. Again, I haven’t seen Harry Potter, so I have no clue how similar Voldemort’s death is to Blackbeard’s.

And here’s one more for bonus that’s like the things I’ve pointed out before. A small bit in Howard Shore’s Hugo kinda sound like a small bit in Howard Shore’s LotR: Return of the King…What?! I know! Crazy–a composer borrowing from himself?! In Hugo, listen to "A Ghost in the Station" from 2:41 to around 3:01. In the Return of the King Complete Recordings, take a listen to "Osgiliath Invaded" from 5:49 to 6:12. It plays slower there, but I’ll bet that note progression is fairly common. Can anyone find it elsewhere?

Also, since my post on March 9 concerning 528491, I’ve come across several other occurrences of that note progression, but by this time, I’ve forgotten them. I believe one can be heard briefly somewhere in the full version of "The Fallen’s Arrival" from Transformers 2, found on Clay Duncan’s website. Ooh, I just remembered: it’s all over the TRON: Legacy score. It’s not identical, but it is…reminiscent. Best example: "Fall".