|Orchestral Arrangements from Video Games and Anime|
FLAC + Scans
Disc 1
http://rapidshare.com/files/370575023/ESO-ANIFD1FL.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/370579599/ESO-ANIFD1FL.part2.rar
Disc 2
http://rapidshare.com/files/370588516/ESO-ANIFD2FL.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/370590437/ESO-ANIFD2FL.part2.rar
PSW: smile
MP3 V0 + Cover
http://rapidshare.com/files/370939218/ESO-ANIF.rar
PSW: smile
No better way to describe this wonder than a review from SEMO:
So, was it worth the wait and the frenzied anticipation? Mostly, yes: the album’s varied enough to keep the listener interested during its whole length, while being stylistically coherent enough to avoid jarring transitions. The work that has gone into the arrangement of the suites and single tracks is massive and the majority of them are skillfully composed, establishing a natural flow when moving from one theme to the next. Several of these arrangements are nothing less than spectacular: the suites and re-interpretations of music from AFRIKA, Chrono Cross, Shadow of the Colossus, Laputa, and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya are deeply impressive and up there with the best that orchestral game and anime music has to offer. Even lesser suites such as those from Astro Boy and Tsubasa Chronicles fail to greatly impress not because of an inherent lack of quality — they’re highly entertaining works in and of themselves — but rather because they’re surrounded by sterling arrangements of other works which simply outshine them. Apart from the occasional, slight slip in intonation or rhythmic accuracy, the orchestra’s playing is polished and remains impressive throughout the album.
Unfortunately, it’s difficult to overlook the recording’s two major flaws. Far too often, the choir falls behind the rest of the ensemble in terms of technical proficiency (and isn’t always served well by the album’s recording quality). It’s hardly a game breaker most of the time, but still, the choir’s insecurities in intonation have the potential to impact the impression the music makes on the listener, most notably in the case of the Death Note suite. A comparison with the technically more accomplished Symphonic Fantasies concert series may be somewhat unfair — given that the WDR Radio Orchestra and Choir are state-funded institutions with an illustrious performance history reaching back several decades — but what ultimately counts is the end result that the interested fan pays for when she buys the recording. Furthermore, not all of the suites meet the standards of the majority of the concert’s arrangements: the Gears of War 2 suite is mostly bland, and the collection of themes from Princess Mononoke — it’s really just that — is downright uninspired. The fact that both suites are more than 10 minutes long hurts the flow of the album considerably.
But despite these weaknesses, A Night in Fantasia 2009 is easily worth purchasing just for the highlights mentioned above and ultimately offers about 80 minutes of good to seriously amazing music. This is for a more than reasonable price — currently, the two disc set is priced at just $19.95 on the Eminence Symphony Orchestra’s website. It’s certainly a must-buy for fans of orchestral game and anime music and a confirmation of the Eminence Symphony Orchestra position in the market, but not quite the revelation it aims to be.
Full Review:
http://www.squareenixmusic.com/reviews/simonelchlepp/anif09.shtml
Will have to wait for someone to mirror it though ;_; my RS account expired yesterday Dx
That would be great! Thanks!
Awesome 🙂
Anway, many thanks for posting this album, Sirusjr. Much, much appreciated!
The orchestra isn’t on fine form either; nobody would argue that Eminence were anywhere near the standard of the London Symphony Orchestra, but here they should under-rehearsed and amateurish… and SMALL. Nowhere near as small as they were in 2005’s ANIF (less than 40, if I remember correctly) but nevertheless very underpowered.
The arrangements are similarly underachieving; there’s absolutely no spark or power. They’re by the numbers orchestrations, and in most cases, not tailored to the ensemble size. The Totoro arrangement in particular, sounds like their Chamber ensemble version just scaled up for the orchestra.
And their rendition of Death Note is just horrible; as other commentators have noticed, the choir is simply AWFUL. There’s no other way to say it. They are too small, and they can’t sing – in tune or otherwise. In complete contrast with the original soundtrack recording (made with a tiny studio orchestra) this is limp and lifeless. Hirano’s dissonant brass runs are blurred into oblivion.
A great album to have if you like to hear incompetent performances of music that, for the most part, is far superior in its original soundtrack releases. I’m crushed by this. How can something so hyped and so anticipated… end up failing so comprehensively?
POst is very much appreciated; I will be saving my money here. Why ever would you chose to listen to the arrangements on this disc in preference to the original soundtrack releases? Afrika, Death Note, the Ghibli suites, particularly…?
Oh well… here’s still tentatively looking forwarf to ANIF 2014 or whenever they get around to doing another one…
Things they need to do in time for the next concert; BADLY.
1) Find a venue that can accomodate a full sized ensemble.
2) Use the full-sized ensemble.
3) Hire skilled arrangers.
4) Rehearse until they’re blue in the face.
5) Hire competent recording engineers who have experience and skill at capturing a full symphony orchestra.
Surely nobody would pretend that they put on the best shows, play the best music, have the best arrangers, or have the best players?
Something always goes badly wrong in these concerts; they’re like a completely different ensemble in their studio recordings. 2007’s Romeo x Juliet with Sakimoto, and 2010’s Haruhi movie with Sosaki, etc… But in these concerts they sound like a bunch of schoolkids sawing their way through simplified arrangements whilst Mummy and Daddy watch proudly from the audience.
Odd, eh?
Now, you’re not talking about the RLPO are you? 😛
I do not understand how it can be consistently so bad. Either the venue is an acoustic disaster, or their engineer is a complete moron… Possibly both.
Still it’s a fascinating listen.
But yeah, I thought the sound quality was subpar too. I don’t understand how that happens. The recording technology today seriously offers really really good sound quality for not a lot of money at all. Maybe they can’t afford good enough microphones? Makes sense since they are so expensive, but I’d think they’d hire a third party with good equipment to do the recording.
Their Passion album also had less than great sound quality and that was recorded in a studio. As to an explanation for that, I can make no guesses.
For the rest of you leeches — it’s 20 bucks. 20 bucks for a double live album and bonus dvd, totalling over 100 minutes of quality orchestral music, some of it specially re-arranged by the composers themselves for just that performance.
Into the Storm — can you read? It’s a LIVE album. Of course it wasn’t done in a studio.
Don’t compare a live album to a studio one, especially one as highly produced as Echoes of War. For what they had to work with, Eminence did a very fine job with this.
Tango, Sirius — were either of you there on the night? I was sitting across from the composers and their expressions of happiness at the performances have so much more weight than your opinion. At the 2007 performance, the composers gave Eminence a standing ovation. I’ll agree that 2005 was far, far lower quality — the cd just isn’t very good.
Anyway, anything I might say here I’ve said elsewhere, and if you’re a real fan, you’ll already know that, because several feeds for the fans link back to it. The SEMO review was premature: notice that it doesn’t mention the bonus song on the dvd, which was a highlight of the night.
I find it amusing that you attack the arrangements, when several were done by the composers themselves, and the rest by guests like Hamaguchi Shiro, Hayao Matsuo and Wataru Hokoyama. What, you’d rather Eminence just play the themes straight? Booooring.
Sorry guys, but your reaction is shameful. Honestly. If this release had been that bad, I believe the fans would have been the first to get up in arms. They’ve waited far too long. But the point remains: the most you’ll pay for this is 20 bucks. The least, well, a few minutes of your time downloading.
And no, I’m not some friend of the Eminence crew or paid to say this. I just felt it necessary because, quite honestly, you’re acting like a bunch of ingrates.
If I was them, I wouldn’t even bother making a release of this music because clearly the audio isn’t the best and even worse the performance itself leaves a little something to be desired. If you enjoy taking things for what they are regardless of the crap quality then by all means have fun with this and enjoy it. Hell, if you like it despite all its faults, more power to you, but I can’t. As much as I try to enjoy this, the poor recording detracts from the experience and if so I am going to post here to let others know of that fact because I have built up a moderate fanbase who respects my opinions on releases and things of that nature.
The only thing I did not care much for was the vocals in Shadow of Colossus. I felt like the music was much more artistic without vocals, as the game itself was limited in that aspect. I’m not sure why they felt the need to add that in. I mean, I loved the fact that this song was included at all, because SoC had such epic music, but the vocals weren’t necessary.
As per the rest of the songs, well I’ve heard better recordings but I’ve also heard worse. All that matters is that this exists at all, because I love this kind of music too much to let any quality/skill change that.
For the rest of you leeches — it’s 20 bucks. 20 bucks for a double live album and bonus dvd, totalling over 100 minutes of quality orchestral music, some of it specially re-arranged by the composers themselves for just that performance.
Into the Storm — can you read? It’s a LIVE album. Of course it wasn’t done in a studio.
Don’t compare a live album to a studio one, especially one as highly produced as Echoes of War. For what they had to work with, Eminence did a very fine job with this.
Tango, Sirius — were either of you there on the night? I was sitting across from the composers and their expressions of happiness at the performances have so much more weight than your opinion. At the 2007 performance, the composers gave Eminence a standing ovation. I’ll agree that 2005 was far, far lower quality — the cd just isn’t very good.
Anyway, anything I might say here I’ve said elsewhere, and if you’re a real fan, you’ll already know that, because several feeds for the fans link back to it. The SEMO review was premature: notice that it doesn’t mention the bonus song on the dvd, which was a highlight of the night.
I find it amusing that you attack the arrangements, when several were done by the composers themselves, and the rest by guests like Hamaguchi Shiro, Hayao Matsuo and Wataru Hokoyama. What, you’d rather Eminence just play the themes straight? Booooring.
Sorry guys, but your reaction is shameful. Honestly. If this release had been that bad, I believe the fans would have been the first to get up in arms. They’ve waited far too long. But the point remains: the most you’ll pay for this is 20 bucks. The least, well, a few minutes of your time downloading.
And no, I’m not some friend of the Eminence crew or paid to say this. I just felt it necessary because, quite honestly, you’re acting like a bunch of ingrates.
So you mean to say that individuals giving proper criticism is disgraceful? That someone does not like the quality of the performance here treats them like ingrates?
Sir, your argument is full of flaws. I highly suggest you end this charade now before it escalates into something worse.
If I was them, I wouldn’t even bother making a release of this music because clearly the audio isn’t the best and even worse the performance itself leaves a little something to be desired. If you enjoy taking things for what they are regardless of the crap quality then by all means have fun with this and enjoy it. Hell, if you like it despite all its faults, more power to you, but I can’t. As much as I try to enjoy this, the poor recording detracts from the experience and if so I am going to post here to let others know of that fact because I have built up a moderate fanbase who respects my opinions on releases and things of that nature.
…It was always touted as a Live album of the concert. Always. Check out the original advertising for it. I can’t believe you preordered it without knowing at least that. ‘A Night in Fantasia’ is Eminence’s live performance, and has been since 2003. Albums for 2003, 2004, 2005 and now 2009 exist, and every single one is live. If it is called ‘A Night In Fantasia’ it WILL be live. And for a live recording, this is very, very good. Compare it to any other live recording of orchestral music out there, particularly video game or anime. I’m sorry if you didn’t know what you were purchasing. Uhm…read the label next time? 🙂
I’m truly sad you don’t hear anything special here. Honestly. The Colossus arrangement alone blows my mind with what Otani did to it. It took me ages to figure out every single piece he used and how…but like I said, I’ve spoken my mind on the album elsewhere, and won’t repeat myself here.
But hey, at least you paid for it, so okay. My gripe regarding the right to gripe is lessened by that. You feel you didn’t get your money’s worth. I suggest you hit the Eminence forums and speak your mind. You paid, you’ve every right to do that.
There are a lot of satisfied customers out there — even the SEMO review comes away quite favourably. And that’s despite the ungodly delay, against which we all railed for months.
As I said, you’ve paid and if you feel you’ve not gotten your money’s worth, I suggest you voice that opinion somewhere a bit more legitimate than a forum designed for sharing music illegally (and let’s be honest, that’s what this is).
My apologies if I came across as entirely harsh, Sirius, but I hope you can see the issue I take here. Clearly I know of this forum so my hands are far from clean regarding unpurchased acquisitions, but I really do draw the line at people who think they’ve a right to complain about a product they didn’t pay for.
Sir, your argument is full of flaws. I highly suggest you end this charade now before it escalates into something worse.
Suggestion noted and discarded.
Read what I said in its entirety, which you appear to have done given you quoted it…in its entirety. My complaint is a lot more legitimate than simply ‘individuals giving proper criticism’.
My argument may have some flaws — it’s an opinion, nothing more and nothing less. But your argument is non-existent, as it responds to only a very small part of what I said. Taking an argument out of context to the point of losing the argument…loses the argument.
I’m sorry but at least I assume that most orchestral recordings are to some extent performed live. With so much out there, including past great recordings by the same orchestra it is not unreasonable to expect something at least at the level of the Warcraft music recording. There are many problems I notice that are clearly based on poor preparation for the live recording rather than simply based on the poor quality of the recording. If you listen to the Gears of War 2 piece, it is clear in some parts that the band didn’t even bother to practice enough to get in time properly. They shouldn’t have even released a CD of this if it was so terrible as I can clearly notice from these tracks.
I’m sorry but at least I assume that most orchestral recordings are to some extent performed live. With so much out there, including past great recordings by the same orchestra it is not unreasonable to expect something at least at the level of the Warcraft music recording. There are many problems I notice that are clearly based on poor preparation for the live recording rather than simply based on the poor quality of the recording. If you listen to the Gears of War 2 piece, it is clear in some parts that the band didn’t even bother to practice enough to get in time properly. They shouldn’t have even released a CD of this if it was so terrible as I can clearly notice from these tracks.
Regarding your first point: I think that one can state their opinion even for something they stole provided they acknowledge, ultimately, that their opinion is not that of a paying customer. Because this does come down to customer satisfaction, doesn’t it? You get what you pay for, as they say. If you paid nothing, you deserve nothing more than nothing, and anything more than that is a bonus for which you should be thankful. As I said, you are not in that position and should take your concerns to more legitimate fields.
I find Symphonic Shades and this almost on par in terms of audio quality, to be honest. I listened to several other live VGM albums before deciding, and of course SS is the benchmark. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Sorry you’re not a satisfied customer, but it’s not my job to address that dissatisfaction. 😉
Your second point is less worth addressing. Echoes was a studio album. This means if they make a mistake, they can just erase it re-record. A true live album is recorded at the event, mistakes and all. The recording quality won’t be as good because, at the very least, you have an audience to consider — i.e. that much more room for the sound to disperse. In essence, studio=controlled environment; live is simply that: live. Mistakes, hiccups…they can’t be erased or rerecorded. Keep that in mind as you listen.
This whole ‘they shouldn’t have released it unless it was perfect’ attitude is…well, disheartening. Lots of happy customers, you’re not one of them, fine and well — maybe you could ask for your 20 bucks back and mail them your copy? Oh wait, you’ve already gotten plenty of use out of it, either in listening (and apparently hating) or distributing here.
I won’t be checking this again. I’ve told you what you can do to deal with your dissatisfaction.
This is Hiroaki Yura, the founder of Eminence.
I’m here not to defend our orchestra or debate or argue over the performance of ANIF09. I’m here to let you know what happens in live concerts and especially, the situation with ANIF09.
This should give you an insight to how concerts are done and why they appear as they do.
Let’s start off with the negative things
1) I have made the mistake of inviting too many guests. Naturally, they want their best music to be performed. All in one medley. Having 10 guests who wants their best to be heard in one concert spells disaster for the orchestra as we get extremely exhausted from such intense music played one after another.
2) We had 4 x 3 hour rehearsals. We were preparing a 120 minute program. This is in stark contrast to Symphonic Fantasies which had 10 days rehearsals for a concert.
3) We performed at the Sydney Entertainment Centre which had no acoustics. We had to make it ourselves. Also, the engineers and the audio company present did a terrible job with the recording. Some mics weren’t even on. Trumpet 1 mic wasn’t on, the choir mics were only picked up by tree mics. The audio files we had to work with was an utter disaster. Mr Yoshida who worked on SotC had to work miracles to actually bring it up to this level.
The facts.
1) Our orchestra was a full symphony orchestra.
Strings 12 10 8 8 6
Winds 2 2 2 2
Brass 3 5 3 1
Percussion 6
If you thought the ensemble were small, perhaps the recording threw you off.
2) This is not a studio recording = bad compared to our other recordings we’ve done in terms of sound quality and performance. Think about it. If we’re in a studio, we have as many times as we want to get it right and it’s in a completely controlled environment. Also we only get ONE chance to do it in a live setting. Remember, we only had one performance so we couldn’t just get whatever better performance there was in case of a multiple performance.
3) The arrangements are done by the industry’s top arrangers and orchestrators.
Given the circumstances, and the bad producing on my part personally, I believe the orchestra itself did pretty good in my humble opinion. Despite all these setbacks, they pulled it off pretty well. If they didn’t, I’d say so.
If you want to know more details, I’d be very happy to clarify it. You all really need to chill here, for people who didn’t enjoy the CD to the people who support it. We’re here to make good music with whatever resources we got. We lost 6 figures in ANIF09. We’re not likely to recover too quickly from this but we do this because we love what we do. And I know that everyone here loves good music right?
Thanks!
The Shadow of The Colossus track is just awesome.
Thank you again ^^
Then you obviously haven’t heard a Video Games Live concert.
And as you can see above, even the producer of it has his disappointments. You’re living in you’re own cloud, which is fine, but don’t attack other people because they don’t share your opinion.
That explains the sound quality. I hope you were able to get some kind of reimbursement from the company, because they screwed up their job and then surely you had to spend extra money in trying to fix their mistakes.
I understand your job must be very difficult, and I can admire your orchestra and what you do. Some very talented people have put their faith in you, and you won their support by being unique. Sakimoto thinks very highly of Eminence, and I think very highly of Sakimoto. I wish you luck (and no more financial losses) with all your endeavors!
Sirusjr, I suggest you remove the "If you like this, please support Eminence and buy a copy. I am posting this because I want to spread awareness of this awesome album. " from the first post. I don’t think you should be encouraging people to buy badly mastered music. Do you know how many soundtracks are ruined by bad mastering today? Too many and this is another album thrown on top of the pile.
Sirusjr, I suggest you remove the "If you like this, please support Eminence and buy a copy. I am posting this because I want to spread awareness of this awesome album. " from the first post. I don’t think you should be encouraging people to buy badly mastered music. Do you know how many soundtracks are ruined by bad mastering today? Too many and this is another album thrown on top of the pile.
Good point.
That the founder of Eminence would deign to post on a forum being used to basically share his work without due payment is mind-boggling, but we’ll set that aside for a bit. That I appreciate his insight (although I suspected a lot of it, particularly the dubious acoustics of the SEC) also can go without saying.
Into The Storm — I have the VGL Vol 1 cd, and as both my experience and SEMO’s review will tell you, it’s not all live. I suggest you do some research there. Yura echoed what I said regarding controlled environment and one-shot-only. He certainly didn’t contradict me and I certainly am not contradicting him. So please don’t imply I’m approaching this from a different direction, or that I’m ‘living on a cloud’. That’s just ignorant.
I’ve been accused of ‘attacking’ the other live game outfits out there because I prefer Eminence. Let me shed a little light for you here. I’m going to repeat what Tango said, but from the other direction. Yes, Eminence have always been without major financial backing. Yes, they were pretty much just talented students when I first heard them in 04. No, they’re not the London Philharmonic. And yes, they’re all about passion.
That they’ve managed to attract so many guests, either as arrangers, composers or performers, despite humble beginnings and hiccups along the way, is a large part of why I support Eminence. Call it a strange Australian love for the underdog, call it local pride. Whatever. Fact is they were one of the first orchestras in the world to perform One Winged Angel, and certainly one of the first to do it with Uematsu in the audience. They’re also one of the first to get over it.
I dislike this ‘living on a cloud’ accusation quite strongly; I made it clear I’ve criticised Eminence ardently in the past for various mishaps. I’m not going to list them here, because I really don’t have to — Yura has already indicated that he is fully aware of the flaws. And this is why I really support Eminence: that same passion for playing is usually reflected in their connection to the fans. From 06 onwards, they ensured a FREE meet-and-greet with the guests at every concert, regardless of the time required. This cannot be said of too many other active VGM orchestras — some even charge extra for that privilege.
My biggest problem with the ANIF09 concert, initially, was the MCing. And when called on it, the MC himself posted on their site an explanation. He didn’t have to. The tickets were sold, the show done. The money, as it were, made.
Anyway, Yura’s given you some insight into what challenges they faced in getting this album released. If you don’t think that’s worth 20 bucks, so be it. Let’s just pretend he didn’t say how much money they lost over the whole thing, shall we?
Sirius, Xuse, Storm…you’re not fans. Fans support. Even when the product isn’t 100%, fans say, well, it’s not perfect, but look at what good was done. Fans know they’re not getting these arrangements, these performances, anywhere else. They weigh up the effort involved, the cost. And they know that when you pay for something, you appreciate it more. Sirius apparently ordered it but since he didn’t even know it was a live album….mmmmyeah. But my point remains even if he did. Fine, he paid, but now he makes it possible for so many others not to. And I LOVE how he said ‘if you like this, please support eminence and buy a copy’. Yeah, because people are really going to do that when you just give them one, right? Semantics and lipservice. In some ways, you’re even worse than the thieves.
Don’t delude yourselves into thinking you’re anything more than parasites undermining the very thing you’re complaining is lacking: funding to make these productions better. Gee, ya think if no one paid for the ANIF09 cd (except those few who then make it free for everyone else) Eminence would be as well-funded to do it ‘better next time’? No, of course not. You just think ‘oh well, it’s crap anyway, why should I pay for this?’…So. Selfish. And it’s not even that bad, which is considering the issues Yura outlined is quite a miracle.
Like I said, my hands are far from clean regarding music. But I refer back to what I said earlier, what Tango said as well: Eminence doesn’t have massive financial backing. They’re self-funded and promoted, and despite that they’ve worked with more game and anime composers in the past 6 years than any other VGM orchestra out there…of course I’m going to support that. It only makes sense.
But I asked if any of you were there and no one answered. So I guess you just don’t feel the same connection. Fine — just keep in mind that some serious work did go into the album (again, you have ultimate proof of that just a few posts above) and that money had to come from somewhere.
…And it wasn’t you.
I’m done for realsies now. If you want to continue this discussion with me, find my review (it’s not hard, there aren’t too many) and I’ll be glad to engage.
…That’s true though. I compared my cd to the mp3s I ripped and the mp3s come off better.
As a soundtrack fan, there is way too much out there that I don’t think its really wise to buy an album without hearing it first. People have limited funds and I want to ensure that I support the labels for releasing the good music. Before I started downloading music here, I bought maybe one or two soundtrack albums. After I started downloading more and more as well as discovering the smaller labels putting out orchestral work, I have been buying a lot more albums. It is only through building interest by listening to the material I download that I became a purchaser and supporter of the labels.
Maybe it is wishful thinking but I like to think that enough enthusiasts out there who build their love for this music downloading it for free will go out and buy albums when they can afford it and support the industry. I post lesser known albums to spread awareness for them. If someone who likes game music didn’t read SEMO frequently about the game soundtrack news, they might only come into contact with this album through this board. If they like what they hear, I like to think they would buy it.
About the whole fan thing, your logic doesn’t make much sense. To me blindly accepting the lack of quality from something I am a fan of would be disloyal to the company. I may be a fan of eminence but I am also more importantly a supporter of high-quality properly-produced music. Part of posting something like this here is giving people the option to decide if they think this release is up to par with the sort of quality they want to throw their money at. I’m all for supporting eminence when they do great work on great video game soundtracks like Odin Sphere, Opoona, and even Romeo X Juliet. Excuse me if I don’t do the same for a release like this.
Maybe it is wishful thinking but I like to think that enough enthusiasts out there who build their love for this music downloading it for free will go out and buy albums when they can afford it and support the industry. I post lesser known albums to spread awareness for them. If someone who likes game music didn’t read SEMO frequently about the game soundtrack news, they might only come into contact with this album through this board. If they like what they hear, I like to think they would buy it.
I’m one of those kinds of fans. Many true gamers are the kind of people who find solace in actually owning a copy of things, but only if they know that they like it. Sampling first is very important to us. If we didn’t know about it and bought it, then didn’t like it, we would always feel ripped off and never be willing to listen to anything new. If it wasn’t for the internet, and being able to download and hear music like this, I highly doubt the genre of game music and jmusic would have any international fans.
I think in this case, considering who produced this and the circumstances, people should still be encouraged to buy it, despite the sound and performance quality not being of the highest standard. This group can do great things and they attract talent to contribute to putting on a show like this. Maybe you feel like the arrangements weren’t great this time, but maybe next time it’ll be great. There’s a good chance of that, I think. The more support they have now, the better a product they have the potential to make in the future.
Now I sound like a hypocrite for not buying it. Hope they get some cash from a purchase of Romeo x Juliet!
That explains the sound quality. I hope you were able to get some kind of reimbursement from the company, because they screwed up their job and then surely you had to spend extra money in trying to fix their mistakes.
I understand your job must be very difficult, and I can admire your orchestra and what you do. Some very talented people have put their faith in you, and you won their support by being unique. Sakimoto thinks very highly of Eminence, and I think very highly of Sakimoto. I wish you luck (and no more financial losses) with all your endeavors!
We cannot receive a refund. The only thing we can do is to never work with them again, which we are very sure we will not. Rest assured we are going to do our best to make sure that we’ll be able to do concerts again and spread more music to the rest of the world. Thanks for your support, really appreciate it.
I don’t think you should be encouraging people to buy badly mastered music. Do you know how many soundtracks are ruined by bad mastering today? Too many and this is another album thrown on top of the pile.
I don’t think you understand the world "Mastering".
The Audio of the CD is "Mastered" properly. It hasn’t been recorded in the best manner, however this CD has been Mixed and Mastered very well.
I don’t think I would have released the CD if it shouldn’t be bought. We’re selling this CD after we fixed so many issues with it by using a great engineer to fix most major issues.
If you are complaining about the performance of it, I don’t think you understand what a live CD may mean. Sure, I have not released performance which is not "releasable" on CD but by all means, these live performances is at totally acceptable quality and I am judging this from as a performer who competed internationally. That been said, I’d understand if you feel this is not in par with the other studio recordings that we’ve done because that is entirely true.
Yes, they were pretty much just talented students when I first heard them in 04.
Back in 04, if you look at the program, we were never just a talented bunch of students. Eminence always started as a professional international award winning group of professionals. We always paid our musicians a full fee for their work and these musicians were hand selected for their performance capabilities. That been said, what was unprofessional about the performance was the organisation side of it. Organisation was at a student level.
I guess it’s all about how people look at it. I mean it certainly isn’t the best we could have done, especially looking at it AFTER the concert. That been said, we did our personal BEST at that time. Look at other concerts in the world. I don’t see any private orchestra doing what we’re doing. VGL or PLAY! or Symphonic Fantasies isn’t even an orchestra, they are production companies. We’re the same people doing this every single time. We’re not some kind of "cover band" also. We’re not a student organization like VGO who don’t pay their musicians nor use professional internationally acclaimed people.
So please everybody, put yourselves in our position and think about the situation. What would YOU have done? Actually, please tell me, I may be able to improve our situation with your ideas.
CharanJ, I really appreciate your support for us and I for one, is very grateful of people like yourself.
About the whole fan thing, your logic doesn’t make much sense. To me blindly accepting the lack of quality from something I am a fan of would be disloyal to the company. I may be a fan of eminence but I am also more importantly a supporter of high-quality properly-produced music. Part of posting something like this here is giving people the option to decide if they think this release is up to par with the sort of quality they want to throw their money at. I’m all for supporting eminence when they do great work on great video game soundtracks like Odin Sphere, Opoona, and even Romeo X Juliet. Excuse me if I don’t do the same for a release like this.
Sirusjr, you have a fair point but again, you really need to think about the context of this album. If I wanted to create a perfect studio album, I would’ve done just that by recording at our home studio at Fox Studios TSS. We would have used click tracks, separated the harp and the percussion and would have taken 3 hours for each piece we do. I understand you may not like live recordings, but this is where it’s at. I’m using studio monitor speakers and I agree that it’s not the best but it sure isn’t a bad recording. Do you have a huge issue with the performance of this album or is it the actual engineering you are unhappy with?
I’ll keep it in mind about how some people do appreciate a studio level recording in the future.
I think in this case, considering who produced this and the circumstances, people should still be encouraged to buy it, despite the sound and performance quality not being of the highest standard. This group can do great things and they attract talent to contribute to putting on a show like this. Maybe you feel like the arrangements weren’t great this time, but maybe next time it’ll be great. There’s a good chance of that, I think. The more support they have now, the better a product they have the potential to make in the future.
Now I sound like a hypocrite for not buying it. Hope they get some cash from a purchase of Romeo x Juliet!
Thank you!
On a personal insight, I created this orchestra to do concerts, not recordings. Sure we enjoyed doing all these recordings but what we all enjoy doing are the concerts that we put on. And yes, these concerts are funded by CDs and donations.
It’s communities like FFS who is able to support us and that’s why I haven’t requested the recordings to be put down despite some negative feedbacks. At least have a listen! Read what others have to say and decide for yourselves.
I’ll continue to monitor this thread for further clarifications and I’d also be happy to answer questions.
Edit: Maybe I’m too easily won over, but I am so checking this out for you now.
And I have to thank you for appreciating our perspective on the situation. I understand how people could feel cheated if their stuff is being shared, but I do think it’s a more complex situation than the law or the big companies see, though I’ve seen many artists whose points of view are more sophisticated than that. It’s good to know you’re one.
It’s very generous of you to answer the questions of lowly pirates like us. I’d regret it if I missed this opportunity, so…
My curiosity is satisfied from your answers about the technical and performcance parts of it, so I’ll ask about the arranging. Being a Mitsuda and Matsuo fan, I’m curious how his arrangement of "Radical Dreamers" came about. Who is it who decides what song to do and who’s going to do it? You know, do you sit down in a group and think what would be an interesting combination of music and arranger and then try to make it happen, or what?
I have a moderately good setup with some solid headphones so when I use my DAC and lossless files, all the problems are more pronounced. I did listen to the mp3 versions of the tracks today and it was better because some of the flaws are not as obvious. I also found the gears of war track sounded like there were some timing issues with the performers and the track sounds slower than I’m used to which seems to make it harder to enjoy.
The reason I notice the issues with certain tracks is my familiarity with the themes presented. I’ve listened to gears of war 2, chrono cross, africa and tsubasa chronicles soundtracks a bit more heavily than other material on the album so changes from what I am used to stand out. I enjoy the tracks I don’t know as much a bit more because the melodies are more new to me. I may also try to listen to this on more lo-fi setup and see if I can enjoy it more that way too.
I should note though that I do appreciate you guys spreading the love of orchestral music through your live concerts and I would attend one instantly if it was nearby. I also love watching the live videos that came on the DVD because watching you guys perform gives the experience a bit more magic. The interviews on the DVD were also very nice even if the composers didn’t prepare much to say in advance and couldn’t think of much to say either.
Also a suggestion for 2011 if this is alright, considering you guys were able to do Unsung War, I’m curious if that means you can do other Orchestrations from Ace Combat, I know it’s probably just one per franchise going on, however the two songs I really would like for you to look into are the following.
Zero – Ace Combat Zero. This I have a feeling would not be easy to pull off, as you would need a very good spanish acoustic guitarists, this was done once at a Japanese concert, and they had the original guitarists performing this I believe. It would be really cool to hear your re-endition of it.
Liberation of Gracemeria – Ace Combat 6 – This track is glorious for orchestra, and unfortunately was used as a midi set instead, even though they had an orchestra perform 2 tracks of the game this was not one of them. This performance could be really amazing if you guys pull it off correctly, which I’m sure you can.
These are just the two tracks that I can think of, mainly Liberation of Gracemeria that song needs huge justice done to it after being subjected to only being midi.
You’re talking about fanboys, not fans. One is dumber than the other.
Oh well, as much as I’d like to flame silly fanboys, I’m a bit shocked at seeing game music that’s actually not purposely poorly mastered for once. Even if it’s still poorly recorded.
FYI: usually, mastering often involves fixing the volume balance… like the vocals or an instrument being too low/high compared to something else. so in a way, you can also blame the mastering.
Side note:
People who buy into poorly mastered loudness war music (or pay money for trash lossy copies) deserve to be hung by the balls and roasted alive. Don’t give a crap if it were the best "music" ever, there’s no excuse to purposely ruin music. If you buy poorly mastered music out of fandom *points to metallica fans and anyone listening to brick walled music*, you’re retarded. And the music you’re buying will continue in its backward trends of anti-music.
Sadly, 99% of music is mastered like dogshit, aside from Classical. And the trend’s not going to change until we all refuse to buy music (and spam every recording agency including the riaa scum about it) until it’s properly mastered, or comes as a set of two discs: one for the retarded teens and their house shaking car stereos, and one for those of us who aren’t deaf and/or mentally challenged.
Honestly, any dipshit can use a digital method of ruining dynamic range and then burn a cd, why can’t the music industry start teaching the kiddos how to ruin their music AFTER they buy it, so they don’t ruin it for everyone? Oh wait, then they’d have no reason to sell sacd/dvd since they’d sound pretty much exactly the same. Unless you’ve got mechanical ears. Or bred from a cat/dog.
I’ll definitely have to remember this Yura if I ever end up performing in Sydney for any reason.
Personally, I’d love to perform video game music or anime music in a live orchestra or band of some sort for a living like Eminence does. For most of us on this forum who know how to play an instrument, this would probably be a dream come true to achieve this.
If I may ask Yura, how would one become involved with the symphony orchestra specifically performance, and what necessary qualifications or achievements would one need (if any)?
People who buy into poorly mastered loudness war music (or pay money for trash lossy copies) deserve to be hung by the balls and roasted alive. Don’t give a crap if it were the best "music" ever, there’s no excuse to purposely ruin music. If you buy poorly mastered music out of fandom *points to metallica fans and anyone listening to brick walled music*, you’re retarded. And the music you’re buying will continue in its backward trends of anti-music.
Sadly, 99% of music is mastered like dogshit, aside from Classical. And the trend’s not going to change until we all refuse to buy music (and spam every recording agency including the riaa scum about it) until it’s properly mastered, or comes as a set of two discs: one for the retarded teens and their house shaking car stereos, and one for those of us who aren’t deaf and/or mentally challenged.
Honestly, any dipshit can use a digital method of ruining dynamic range and then burn a cd, why can’t the music industry start teaching the kiddos how to ruin their music AFTER they buy it, so they don’t ruin it for everyone? Oh wait, then they’d have no reason to sell sacd/dvd since they’d sound pretty much exactly the same. Unless you’ve got mechanical ears. Or bred from a cat/dog.
While I generally agree with you about loudness wars sucking, I find a lot of quality heavy metal out there and I want to support the bands so I buy it regardless of how loud the album is mastered. Sure some bands are more brick-walled than others but there is so little good metal out there that I buy the stuff where it comes and don’t really mind it. I also don’t think that a couple of smart fans raising hell would make any difference. The fact of the matter is the general public likes it and can’t tell the difference if they gave them real music. I’m not going to avoid supporting great bands like Wuthering Heights just because they apply some gain to their albums although its not to the level or extent of the latest Metalica album which anyone with a brain can tell sounds like crap.
You are now my new personal hero!
Thanks so much!
And after all Play! fuc**d up bigger imo (sorry, but I still remember their rendition of Halo…), and VGL wasn’t LIVE. Even though, why most of those official big live releasess mostly sucks? Is this a battle where winner is the guy who did worse?
We cannot receive a refund. The only thing we can do is to never work with them again, which we are very sure we will not.
Guys who messed up your recording are untouchable? I think a lawsuit would be quite in place here. They destroyed a work of lots of people god damn! At least make ’em some hardcore black PR;).
The Audio of the CD is "Mastered" properly. It hasn’t been recorded in the best manner, however this CD has been Mixed and Mastered very well.
I don’t think I would have released the CD if it shouldn’t be bought. We’re selling this CD after we fixed so many issues with it by using a great engineer to fix most major issues.
I’m a HUGE fan of live music and I’d much rather see bands live than buy a studio recorded album, but I’m telling you your CD is unlistenable (is that even a word?) to me. Don’t get me wrong the actual music sounds decent, but the recording is ruining it for me.
So, I apologize if this is upsetting you. I’m just telling you the truth and I by no means want to see you go out of pocket, but I can’t support your album when the quality is so bad. Hopefully your next album will be of higher quality.
This is Hiroaki Yura, the founder of Eminence.
I’m here not to defend our orchestra or debate or argue over the performance of ANIF09. I’m here to let you know what happens in live concerts and especially, the situation with ANIF09.
This should give you an insight to how concerts are done and why they appear as they do.
Let’s start off with the negative things
1) I have made the mistake of inviting too many guests. Naturally, they want their best music to be performed. All in one medley. Having 10 guests who wants their best to be heard in one concert spells disaster for the orchestra as we get extremely exhausted from such intense music played one after another.
2) We had 4 x 3 hour rehearsals. We were preparing a 120 minute program. This is in stark contrast to Symphonic Fantasies which had 10 days rehearsals for a concert.
3) We performed at the Sydney Entertainment Centre which had no acoustics. We had to make it ourselves. Also, the engineers and the audio company present did a terrible job with the recording. Some mics weren’t even on. Trumpet 1 mic wasn’t on, the choir mics were only picked up by tree mics. The audio files we had to work with was an utter disaster. Mr Yoshida who worked on SotC had to work miracles to actually bring it up to this level.
The facts.
1) Our orchestra was a full symphony orchestra.
Strings 12 10 8 8 6
Winds 2 2 2 2
Brass 3 5 3 1
Percussion 6
If you thought the ensemble were small, perhaps the recording threw you off.
2) This is not a studio recording = bad compared to our other recordings we’ve done in terms of sound quality and performance. Think about it. If we’re in a studio, we have as many times as we want to get it right and it’s in a completely controlled environment. Also we only get ONE chance to do it in a live setting. Remember, we only had one performance so we couldn’t just get whatever better performance there was in case of a multiple performance.
3) The arrangements are done by the industry’s top arrangers and orchestrators.
Congrats Mr. Hiroaki for founding the Emmince SO, and congrats for all your initiatives…
I was looking forward to this audio recording to listen to the NBGI composers (Kobayashi Keiki and Nakatsuru Jun’ichi) in a full orchestral panoply. Also both orchestrators Hokoyama Wataru and Hamaguchi Shirou are highly respectable.
However the audio quality is unsatisfactory.
The audio company and the recording engineers are absolutely imbecile!
I "big bravo" to those imbecile folks who are responsible for the unsatisfactory audio quality. I was waiting impatiently to hear an orchestrated version of the theme "Unsung War", as I adore Ace Combat OSTs, but the result-outcome was "thumbs down"…..
Still many kudos to the mastering engineer who made miracles to fix the serious flaws and drawbacks of the original recorded source.
As for being a live event recording, I must say that I have heard other live events and everything was superb. Example :
http://vgmdb.net/album/76
Listen to "Advent: One-Winged Angel" and what orchestrator Hamaguchi Shirou has done.
Therefore I would like to request kindly:
-Please be careful on which audio company you choose to record the performances of Eminence SO.
-In terms of your CDs stress more on studio-recordings, and utilize recording venues that have stupendous accoustics.
-Record more music from the Ace Combat series, and from the Biohazard series (Resident Evil).
-Use mammoth-gargantuan orchestrations.
For instance it would be wonderful to listen the "Unsung War" with the following instrumentation :
Strings : 20 first violins, 16 second violins, 12 violas, 10 cellos and 9 double-basses.
Woodwinds : 3 flutes & 1 piccolo, 3 oboes & 1 cor anglais, 3 clarinets, 1 bass
clarinet, 1 contrabass clarinet, 3 bassoons & 1 contra-bassoon.
Brass : 8 horns, 4 trumpets, 2 cornets, soprano
saxophone, 2 alto saxophones, 3 tenor saxophones, 3 trombones, 2 bass tubas.
Rest: 2harps, bells, clashed cymbals, suspended cymbals, snare-drum, triangle, tam-tam, bass drum, timpani.
and choir….
Hey I have to say, I’m really happy you guys took a much more proper shot at the Unsung War, though I have to admit it felt a bit lacklustered from being perfect / great. I am a strong and heavy fan of your orchestrations. I don’t know if this was the recording’s fault or not, however I have noticed a lot of lack of dynamics in many of the recordings, I mean I can hear the instruments putting more unf into it, but the volume somehow stays the same, and it’s really killing it for me that I can’t hear that explosion that I normally expect from live orchestrations as those are the one things Midis can never fully perfect (they can, at times but it’s so much better and real when an orchestra does this)
Also a suggestion for 2011 if this is alright, considering you guys were able to do Unsung War, I’m curious if that means you can do other Orchestrations from Ace Combat, I know it’s probably just one per franchise going on, however the two songs I really would like for you to look into are the following.
Zero – Ace Combat Zero. This I have a feeling would not be easy to pull off, as you would need a very good spanish acoustic guitarists, this was done once at a Japanese concert, and they had the original guitarists performing this I believe. It would be really cool to hear your re-endition of it.
Liberation of Gracemeria – Ace Combat 6 – This track is glorious for orchestra, and unfortunately was used as a midi set instead, even though they had an orchestra perform 2 tracks of the game this was not one of them. This performance could be really amazing if you guys pull it off correctly, which I’m sure you can.
These are just the two tracks that I can think of, mainly Liberation of Gracemeria that song needs huge justice done to it after being subjected to only being midi.
Seconded!!
This is Hiroaki Yura, the founder of Eminence.
Welcome to the forum; I am humbled and I know others are too. I regret the severity of some of my comments – and not because I didn’t expect them to actually be read by Eminence themselves… obviously I became the shameful "Internet Tough Guy Reviewer" and failed to pay due respect where it was very much due. I apologise wholeheartedly. I absolutely respect Eminence, the ridiculous amount of effort it puts into its performances, and most of all the way it is able to reach out and capture the imaginations of people who would otherwise have no interest in symphonic music.
Furthermore, I fear that my comments have given you an inaccurate impression about me and it does indeed shame me that a man I wholeheartedly respect now probably thinks I’m an a***hole.
1) I have made the mistake of inviting too many guests. Naturally, they want their best music to be performed. All in one medley. Having 10 guests who wants their best to be heard in one concert spells disaster for the orchestra as we get extremely exhausted from such intense music played one after another.
A completely valid comment of course; though most contemporary symphony orchestras are quite accustomed to playing for such long periods of time… Playing a Mahler symphony without a break is quite a different affair to what the Eminence musicians must face – effectively 120 minutes of Allegro for the full ensemble.
2) We had 4 x 3 hour rehearsals. We were preparing a 120 minute program. This is in stark contrast to Symphonic Fantasies which had 10 days rehearsals for a concert.
That’s not much time at all! If I may ask, how much rehearsal time would Eminence like for such a concert? Is this amount of rehearsal time common to all your performances or would you rehearse for longer in your studio recordings? I’m assuming that when you record at Trackdown, you do a lot of rehearsing prior to entering the studio?
3) We performed at the Sydney Entertainment Centre which had no acoustics. We had to make it ourselves. Also, the engineers and the audio company present did a terrible job with the recording. Some mics weren’t even on. Trumpet 1 mic wasn’t on, the choir mics were only picked up by tree mics. The audio files we had to work with was an utter disaster. Mr Yoshida who worked on SotC had to work miracles to actually bring it up to this level.
I figured as much; I don’t think anybody here would disagree that the recording is the biggest stumbling block in ANIF09. The recording venue sounds dry and completely unforgiving. It’s a colossal shame that it turned out like this and the orchestra must be kicking themselves… and thinking quite vividly of kicking the recording engineers.
The problems seem to be largely balance related; learning more about your recording woes, it seems more apparent that the majority of the blame should go here, not to the musicians themselves. Odd instruments are getting highlighted, and some are missing from the mix. As an amateur recording engineer, and a professional restoration engineer, I know only too well that a badly recorded orchestra will sound terrible – no matter how superb the actual performance. My apologies again.
1) Our orchestra was a full symphony orchestra.
If you thought the ensemble were small, perhaps the recording threw you off.
Indeed it did; it’s hard to believe you’re at full symphony strength here. Clearly the recording problems have effectively resulted in half the orchestra not actually getting recorded. The upper strings seem particularly bad?
2) This is not a studio recording = bad compared to our other recordings we’ve done in terms of sound quality and performance. Think about it. If we’re in a studio, we have as many times as we want to get it right and it’s in a completely controlled environment. Also we only get ONE chance to do it in a live setting. Remember, we only had one performance so we couldn’t just get whatever better performance there was in case of a multiple performance.
A live recording is never going to be perfect, nor has anyone a right to expect it to be. It’s a unique document of a concert; warts and all. I don’t think there’s anybody here who doesn’t get that. My point regarding the performances, for what they’re worth, was that they don’t seem up to your usual standards – whether they be in live concert or otherwise. (Allow me to cite the Ghibli bonus tracks on the ANIF2005 DVD (which cost me an arm and a leg at auction) – I believe they were recorded the year before. A beautiful recording, a beautiful performance.
In ANIF09, the orchestra sound positively tired at times – as I fully expect they were. I don’t think saying that, at least, denies any of these wonderful musicians the respect they deserve – it merely observes that, perhaps, they were overworked or underprepared to the extent that it causes their musicianship to suffer. The brass fluffs in the Death Note suite are a primary example; the name Yoshihisa Hirano must strike terror into the heart of any trumpet, trombone, or French horn player. Once again, a massive shame, but certainly one which is easy to understand given the realities of live concert.
3) The arrangements are done by the industry’s top arrangers and orchestrators.
Just to clarify for the benefit of the other gentleman, who seems intent upon attacking everybody in the thread – possibly to appear supportive to Mr Hiroaki – but in my eyes he comes across as unnecessarily brusque, sychophantic, and insulting… I have the utmost respect for the arrangers – particularly Mr Hamaguchi, and Mr Hokoyama; possibly two of the most skilled orchestrators on this fine planet. It is just a feeling that, perhaps, some of the arrangements here (not all, by any stretch) weren’t made with the full sized ensemble in mind… I don’t know – it’s something of a hunch that a 70 piece orchestra (full sized by any classical standards) would sound a little more exhuberant than it does here…
Given the circumstances, and the bad producing on my part personally, I believe the orchestra itself did pretty good in my humble opinion. Despite all these setbacks, they pulled it off pretty well. If they didn’t, I’d say so.
I wonder what possible part you think you have played personally in any failures – real and perceived alike – in this concert… With good music, good arrangements, a good well rehearsed orchestra, an acoustically suitable venue, and a skilled recording engineer… success is guaranteed. Granted, ANIF09 (at least, on disc) occasionally flounders on some of these points but unless you’re Superman (in which case, why aren’t you winding back time and recording the concert again with another firm? 😉 ) I doubt there’s much you could’ve done about it.
In the end, you put on one helluva show – and you didn’t do it for money, accolades, or glory – you did it for music, and you did it for the good of your audiences. Regardless of the outcome, that’s the most honourable of intentions, and that’s what history will record about Eminence, years after we’ve all passed on.
If you want to know more details, I’d be very happy to clarify it.
Thank you – that’s very good of you indeed.
You all really need to chill here, for people who didn’t enjoy the CD to the people who support it.
If I could clarify, I didn’t particularly enjoy the CD as a listening experience, but I do at the same time wholeheartedly support it. I said in my earlier post that I had intended to buy this disc but that having heard it, I would withdraw my purchase. For all the reasons I have listed throughout this (ridiculously long) post I will indeed make this purchase; and I’ll feel proud to have this disc in my collection.
Not because the moral crusader has shamed me into it, or because I feel bad ripping off Eminence right in front of their noses. (Though I do feel bad about that and so should everybody else.)
I do it because I do support Eminence and I should’ve done all along.
We lost 6 figures in ANIF09. We’re not likely to recover too quickly from this but we do this because we love what we do.
Crikey, really? How could that possibly be? You had a full house on the night, didn’t you? I heard that people were virtually beating each other to get tickets. Or was it simply the case that you spent more putting it on than you ever hoped to reclaim? Hopefully the sales of the album will help?
Also, presumably your (increasing number of) studio recordings help pay the bills and keep the pilot light switched on?
And I know that everyone here loves good music right?
Sometimes, in my more cynical moments, I think that some people like complaining and bellyaching far more than they like music. Music is my life – writing, listening, reviewing – and I respect anybody who can say the same.
Thank you sir, for your fascinating comments – and for not taking offense (you would’ve been entirely justified in doing so) at some of the more vitriolic (mine included) denouncements of all your hard work… I honestly hope that there would be no hard feelings.
Best wishes,
D
The people that live in Netherland the "Ricciotti Ensemble" (ricciotti.nl) who did the C64 orchestral albums have also the same spirit as the Eminence group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uowQszySvrU
Unfortunately, they can’t get license from square enix to sell the cd’s. Just unfortunate.
ps:
pardon me about my english.
Please….
thanks a lot!!
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