I definately recommend it, so far I am loving it.
Here I am on my way to Best Buy
Tada!
I has my copy! I love it too. It’s easy to get sucked into the drama of this game. The story is very good. I’m glad Mary Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyubR1rknBM) got a roll in the game, even if it’s a hooker. lol. (not really a spoiler, it’s in the demo) Sadly I have to wait until Sony comes out with a patch because I’m one of the few who are having freezing and sound issues. 🙁
OT: Why do americans have such in your face game covers? I much prefer the less is more approach that PAL gets.
Trust me. Many of us Americans, like myself, perfer the less is more approach and like the PAL cover a lot more. In fact, a lot of PS3 gamers usually perfer the JP or PAL covers in a lot of games. That’s why they did give us the option for the PAL cover. (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/02/heavy-rain-out-today/) I went to my local Kinko’s to print that cover the other night, because I think it’s much better, but I was having trouble getting the dementions printed right.
It’s much like a David Fincher film, the overall feel is that of Zodiac and some parts remind me of Seven. I can safely say it is the best story I have experienced in a video game to date.
Because we’re not pussies.
*cough* Vietnam *cough*
<3 Noskillbassist…. NOT!!!
It… has its moments, I guess.
That’s the best I can do, I’m afraid. It should consider itself very lucky that detective games and modern world thrillers that don’t feature zombies, are still very rare.
Because honestly, this should have been much better than it is. It’s about as good as Fahrenheit was (with jazzier graphics obviously).
Which is to say it’s okay, but there’s a HELL of a lot of work to do before it can be considered great. David Cage also needs to learn to write baddies and female characters better, or get someone else to do it.
Madison achieves little more in this game than wiggling her hips ridiculously as she walks, swinging her crotch over her bike in front of the camera and ‘getting her baps out for the lads’.
And as with Fahrenheit, she falls completely in love with the hero in under 5 minutes, and later tries to have sex with him at an unbelivably inappropriate time (i.e when Ethan believes his son has just been killed!)
Ah… I’m just venting to a certain degree, because I was hoping for a better game.
It’s actually a perfectly acceptable, if wholly unoriginal, experience (the ‘twist’ has been done so many times before, and is exactly the kind of thing that student writers often mistakenly think is incredibly original).
And there are some very fun moments – usually in Scott Shelby’s sections. When the game works, some of the scenes are geuninely moving too. Again, usually only in Shelby’s sections, but some (and only some) of Ethan’s are as well – mostly at the start.
I consider it a 7/10 kind of game. Not bad as such, but could have been much better.
I will never understand people who have a go, just because you don’t think every new game is a 10/10 masterpiece…
If David Cage wants to be taken seriously as a writer, he needs to make sure his plots actually work. The game is full of plot holes. Sure, some can be explained away and are just symptoms of people hopping on the hate bandwagon, but most are legitimate.
Ethan’s belief that he is the Origami killer for example, makes his argument on why he has to stay out of jail null and void. If he thinks he is the killer, then why follow the rules himself? Why not give himself up and turn the evidence over to the police?
Because if he is the killer and is in jail, that’s the safest place for him, as far as Shaun is concerned. And whether the police believe him or not, they are still looking for Shaun, so they’ll investigate the trials.
A sweep for evidence by police forsenics teams will turn up the trial rewards (they are always right by the trial itself). And if Ethan thinks he is the killer, he knows that Shaun will not be punished and/or killed for his not complying with the orders.
There is simply no argument to be made that Ethan would think it is safer to do the trials himself, given that he thinks he is the killer.
He said Jayden died in the ending he got. There are endings in which he doesn’t die, however.
And if you were talking about my post, I didn’t put any spoilers up either.
It’s been public knowledge forever that the characters can die. Every review I’ve seen makes a point of bringing it up and giving their opinions on it. It wasn’t a secret – they wanted you to know, because it’s an interesting selling point.
So don’t give us any of that. Nobody’s spoilered anything.
Getting worked up over such a trifling little detail, indeed. I could understand if someone had named the killer, the killer’s gender, spelled out significant scenes in detail or something like that.
But this fiddling little point was common knowledge (I’m pretty sure the manual states it too).
You’re being totally ignorant, people find out about the game in different ways. You’re also a cunt for trying to defend your spoilers, when all you had to do was use the fucking spoiler tags.
Like this asshole!
learn to use them, you prick.
lol
hm, I’d say it sounds disingenuous when the other 98% is scathing criticism but that’s just me
On the back of the god damned box! So unless you ran home with your eyes clamped firmly shut, you had to have had at least an idea that your characters could cop it.
But fair enough, okay? In future, I’ll put spoiler tags on. Can’t say fairer than that.
As regards the negative bits I said…
Well perhaps, but I did say that much of it was me venting, because it hadn’t lived up to my expectations. (I.e I recognise that just because a game doesn’t do what you thought it would, it doesn’t necessarily make it a bad game).
And I don’t think it’s a bad game. It’s not very fair to say that I didn’t mention any of this game’s good features, because I did. When it does work, it’s a very engaging game. It just didn’t ‘hit the target’ enough for my liking.
7/10 is not a bad score – it’s 2 thirds of the way to a perfect score! But the plot holes are very distracting – mainly because they tipped me off to the killer far too soon.
The fact that I wouldn’t mind seeing either Jayden or Madison get their own game, suggests that it did at least some things right for me, though.
(Madison is poorly used for most of the game IMO, but most of her later scenes are good).
It’s still a disappointment to me, but my expectations were probably too high, which didn’t help.
If David Cage had made this a movie, I am sure it would’ve been panned by critics. The worst thing is that people have begun calling this a huge step in storytelling in videogames. Oh well.
I’ll rent it, eventually. I pretty much know the entire story now but maybe playing some quick time events that lead to the same outcome no matter how well (or bad) you do will win me over.
Too much hype.
The quick time events do effect the story. Even if only slightly. hell, tell that to Norman Jayden. RIP. I made a mistake on a quick time event and he died. Effecting the story a lot.
The quick time events do effect the story.
Yes, some do. However, there are many times when the game won’t let you fail simply because doing so would lead the story into a direction the developers couldn’t be bothered to let it go. Like how when the character whose name I forget gets into a fight, blacks out (if you fail the QTE) and wakes up with all his problems solved anyway, as if he had passed the QTE. Also, IGN did a video on the effects the QTEs have on the story to convince those who… weren’t convinced. However, all the video showed was that how well you did with the QTE only effected the sequence of events that occured through that specific scene. However, no matter how good or bad the IGN player did with the QTE, it always ended the same way.
The QTEs effect the story when the game wants them to.
And if you don’t think the story is trash (full of plot holes, retarded (and obvious) red herrings, deus ex machina)… derp. i mean, the game lets you into the mind of the killer (a big no-no in storytelling with a twist, by the way) and outright lies to you. All of
Scott Shelby’s thoughts contradict those you’d expect of a serial killer. It’s not as if he’s lying to himself (not possible) or that his intentions were ultimately to destroy/hide evidence that would incriminate him. His thoughts are those of a person who is doing what they can to catch a serial killer.
Another example of bad storytelling is how the game has Ethan pass out regularly and awake with origami in his hand. This is never explained, ever. It’s passed off as him being under stress because his kid has been kidnapped (but he seems perfectly capable of banging a chick after discovering his son has possibly died [this is totally how people act in real life and this is how they react to one another! (I’m being sarcastic that is absolutely retarded)]).
I know the story and I know the characters. I’m going to play the game despite all signs pointing towards it not being very good. It’s just a shame that it’s received as much praise as it has and that it’s being regarded as a leap in storytelling in video games. But I’m repeating myself now…
however
I do to some extent agree with Scott Shelby thinking the opposite of what he should. It does make sense in certain scenes but others not so much.
If I can get decent money for MAG, Fifa 09 and Killzone 2 I’m gonna sell them and buy Heavy Rain. otherwise I’ll have to stick to my FFXIII/Heavy Rain situation, in which case the latter will have to wait till I’m up on funds again.
however
I do to some extent agree with Scott Shelby thinking the opposite of what he should. It does make sense in certain scenes but others not so much.
Problems with a story are objective, I’m afraid. It is not as they would simply disappear when I play them.
I just told you why the story isn’t really good. If this story were told in a movie (like the director wants) it would be panned critically. We’ve had better stories in games for a long, long time. Saying you think this is a leap in storytelling is like saying "Hey [Developers/Critics of Video Game Stories (Roger Ebert’s opinion comes to mind here)], we’ll like any old shit so long as you tell us over and over your story is groundbreaking in your marketing campaign, and provide us with a WHOA OMG twist at the end that doesn’t make any sense."
It’s just a fact that the story isn’t really good.
However, as I said, I’m going to rent it eventually and give it a run through to have a gander at the presentation/GRAPHICS. As you said, it could very well be a story told well. It’s just not as if the story is any good or anywhere near the quality of a movie/book.
If I can get decent money for MAG, Fifa 09 and Killzone 2 I’m gonna sell them and buy Heavy Rain. otherwise I’ll have to stick to my FFXIII/Heavy Rain situation, in which case the latter will have to wait till I’m up on funds again.
That’s why I used spoiler tags 😉 I guess curiosity got the better of you eh?
MAG you should get some good money for. Fifa 09 you will get about �1, I’m being dead serious. Games with a year in the title always go for cheap when the next one is realeased. Killzone, meh, maybe a few bob.
I still think you should choose FFXIII over Heavy Rain. I would. That’s just the bias in me though.
Turns out the piece of paper you get with the game folds into an origami vagina
Too much hype.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_rain#Reception
…
I was talking about the post where you said Jayden died
MAG you should get some good money for. Fifa 09 you will get about �1, I’m being dead serious. Games with a year in the title always go for cheap when the next one is realeased. Killzone, meh, maybe a few bob.
I still think you should choose FFXIII over Heavy Rain. I would. That’s just the bias in me though.
I traded in Transformers 2 (Yes i bought it when was bored and regretted it instantly) and MAG. Got �32 for them both and put it on store credit and bought Heavy Rain for the full price. I’ll use the credit to get FF XIII cheaper on Tuesday.
Been playing Heavy Rain since I got in and I’m loving it.
I shot Nathaniel in a panic because I wasn’t sure whether to try and convince him anymore, he really seemed like he was going to shoot Blake. I’m thinking I might have messed up my game by doing that, but I don’t know. I would like to keep multiple game saves but it seems like you can’t do that without affecting the original one. If I’m wrong can someone let me know please
Thoroughly enjoyed it. Such an enthralling game. So much so that it’s the first game since i can remember where I’ve bought it, come home, put it in the console, turned it on and played it non-stop till I finished it. Seriously I only got up to go to the toilet and to get a few drinks. (man I need to get a job) I thought the story, for the most part, came together nicely. Granted there are some huge plotholes (why was Ethan blacking out then waking up with Origami in his grasp?). I was actually surprised by the twist. It made sense after it was revealed but I wasn’t expecting it.
Anyway, I finished it with Madison, Jayden and Ethan alive. Saved Shaun too. I was expecting the trophy "Four Heroes" right up until the twist. Now I don’t know who the 4th character is you’re supposed to save. Maybe I’ve missed something? Anyone know?
I’ll be replaying anyway, so I might come across it myself.
Anyway, to anyone who hasn’t got it but is thinking about it, go buy it!
…
And?
I’ve pointed out why the story is retarded. If anything, all that says is that reviewers are easily swayed by marketing. "This is the next big thing in video game storytelling, we swear!"
Derp derp derp.
As a matter of fact, all the reviewers who gave reviews like this are absent form that section of the wiki article.
It clearly has faults. A game with such glaring errors in its story should not be given such praise for its story. It’s only logical to conclude that any reviewer who gave a high score for the game’s story is deluded or retarded.
What is wrong with the story? Wait, why am I asking you, you haven’t even played it.
I’m already at home. Also I believe I mentioned I’ve read many in-depth articles on the characters and plot as well as several synopses on both the plot and characters. I also mentioned I was going to rent it eventually to see how it fairs with a bit of creative presentation.
The quick time events do effect the story.
Yes, some do. However, there are many times when the game won’t let you fail simply because doing so would lead the story into a direction the developers couldn’t be bothered to let it go. Like how when the character whose name I forget gets into a fight, blacks out (if you fail the QTE) and wakes up with all his problems solved anyway, as if he had passed the QTE. Also, IGN did a video on the effects the QTEs have on the story to convince those who… weren’t convinced. However, all the video showed was that how well you did with the QTE only effected the sequence of events that occured through that specific scene. However, no matter how good or bad the IGN player did with the QTE, it always ended the same way.
The QTEs effect the story when the game wants them to.
And if you don’t think the story is trash (full of plot holes, retarded (and obvious) red herrings, deus ex machina)… derp. i mean, the game lets you into the mind of the killer (a big no-no in storytelling with a twist, by the way) and outright lies to you. All of
Scott Shelby’s
thoughts contradict those you’d expect of a serial killer. It’s not as if he’s lying to himself (not possible) or that his intentions were ultimately to destroy/hide evidence that would incriminate him. His thoughts are those of a person who is doing what they can to catch a serial killer.
Another example of bad storytelling is how the game has Ethan pass out regularly and awake with origami in his hand. This is never explained, ever. It’s passed off as him being under stress because his kid has been kidnapped (but he seems perfectly capable of banging a chick after discovering his son has possibly died [this is totally how people act in real life and this is how they react to one another! (I’m being sarcastic that is absolutely retarded)]).
I know the story and I know the characters. I’m going to play the game despite all signs pointing towards it not being very good. It’s just a shame that it’s received as much praise as it has and that it’s being regarded as a leap in storytelling in video games. But I’m repeating myself now…
I’m not getting it because reviews are about OPINIONS.
Problems with a story are objective, I’m afraid. It is not as they would simply disappear when I play them.
I just told you why the story isn’t really good. If this story were told in a movie (like the director wants) it would be panned critically. We’ve had better stories in games for a long, long time. Saying you think this is a leap in storytelling is like saying "Hey [Developers/Critics of Video Game Stories (Roger Ebert’s opinion comes to mind here)], we’ll like any old shit so long as you tell us over and over your story is groundbreaking in your marketing campaign, and provide us with a WHOA OMG twist at the end that doesn’t make any sense."
It’s not an opinion that the game has plot holes as well as lot of loose ends.
Are you retarded? 😡
No, loose ends are definitely a bad thing. That is horrible, horrible storytelling. This isn’t a cliffhanger at the end of one of Grandma’s soaps. This is not explaining key points in the storyline. This isn’t stuff that they would/that should be wrapped up in the sequel.
I’ve already given an example (passing out and waking up with origami in his hand [this doubles as a poor red herring]).
I’ve already pointed out a gaping plot hole. I’ve already pointed out that this gaping plot hole is due to breaking RULE NUMBER ONE when working with a twist like this: don’t get inside the head of the killer/antagonist.
This
is
not
a
good
story.
Also:
Maybe instead of bashing the game and using ad hominem attack you should actually play the game.
I also mentioned I was going to rent it eventually to see how it fairs with a bit of creative presentation.
Edit:
Any story can have plot holes and still be interesting. Who says anything has to be 100% perfect?
A story pretty much has to be coherent, sorry. Well, that’s not entirely true. A story can be nonsensical/insane so long as it doesn’t pretend it’s a coherent story. This isn’t the case with Heavy Rain though.
If a story has plot holes, it’s not a good story. Sure, it can be interesting. Who knows (I don’t, clearly), perhaps Heavy Rain’s storytelling is absolutely wonderful (however I’m not too keen on recent attempts to mimic cinema in video games). These reviews are obviously saying the story is brilliant though, and they (and the marketing team) are saying it’s the best in video game history.
It isn’t.
Yeah I meant play the game before you label it as shit.
Yeah I meant play the game before you label it as shit.
You’re still not getting it. You simply can’t disagree with me and call it a good story because it’s so full of faults. It is impossible for a story with loose ends and plot holes and sudden shifts in plot with no proper explanation (deus ex machina) to be a good story.
If 90% of reviewers disagree with me, they aren’t very good. Nice job sending a message to developers that you’re willing to eat up any old shit so long as it has a twist at the end that’s batshit insane, despite it disregarding any of the plot before it.
You are the worst.
Super Mario’s "story" makes 0% sense, but do people care? No, it’s fun. That’s what matters in a game to me.
And as for your first paragraph, it seems to me that a story-centric game such as Heavy Rain pretty much needs its story to fit together. Another recent game with plot holes in its campaign is Bad Company 2, I hear. Do I care? Not at all! The singleplayer in the Battlefield Bad Company series to me feels like an afterthought to the stellar multiplayer.
Also, it’s worth noting that Heavy Rain tries desperately to be an ‘interactive movie.’ The director, Mr. Cage, actually wishes he was in the movie business! So yeah, I think it’s reasonable to care about story in a story heavy game that also pretends to be a movie that also takes itself seriously.
Yes, I can.
For one, it takes a long while to get going. The first 20% of the game, at least, is absolutely insipid. The voice acting is very poor at times too, not always in sync and sometimes sounding laughable. In addition to the voice acting shortcomings I suffered from the sound intermittently cutting out and the game freezing on one occasion which is no fun either.
As far as the plot goes, it’s not bad. Towards the end of the game there’s a definite sense of not wanting to stop until completion which is good. On the other hand, how can Jayden free Ethan from police custody and not be arrested himself? Ridiculous. Scott Shelby being the killer is pretty lame too, especially the Manfred flashback, I feel.
I don’t exactly think the control system is much more than a gimmick either, why is twisting the analog stick in funny shapes to open a door any better than simply tapping X? It certainly doesn’t make anything more natural or fluid. Finally, on repeat playthroughs it is pretty galling to be forced to sit through cutscenes you’ve seen before except where you have the opportunity to tap some buttons, a serious shortcoming of the gameplay style.
Still, I did enjoy it and I’ll maybe try to get all the trophies if I can still be bothered with it in a few days. One of the better video game stories I can think of, albeit imperfect, fantastic visuals and a novel control system, though not one to my taste. I can’t decide if I’d rate it a 7 or 8 so 7.5 will do.
The thing is that even without its many, many plot holes, its still not a new or particularly amazing story. If you have any interst in detective fiction and modern horror films like Saw/Se7en etc, you’ll have seen all this before many, many times.
To be fair to it, originality is hard to do in this day and age, and any game which presents a different kind of experience to the standard space opera/fantasy dungeon crawl standbys, is welcome.
But whilst Heavy Rain is a decently enjoyable experience for much of the time, it suffers from terribly cliched characters, uninspired direction and dialogue from Dave Cage, and the simple fact that it ‘borrows’ from so many vastly superior sources.
And the plot holes… Some can be explained away if you really, really try, but many cannot.
The thing with the origami blackouts at the start is pretty shameless, as it’s left unexplained. Taken as read, it seems ridiculous (i,e the killer would have to be tailing Ethan constantly, pouncing on him when he blacks out and planting the origami).
Still, it can just about be explained (though I stress this explanation is very unlikely indeed). For a start, Ethan feels so guilty over Jason’s death, that it is reasonably believable that part of him could see something familair in the origami killer (i.e to the extent he might wonder if he is the killer).
The blackouts are presumably caused by continuing complications after the accident. If he does feel so monstrous inside that he identifies with the killer, then it’s possible this other self would adopt some of the killer’s mannerisms (going out in the rain, making the origami figures etc).
But since Ethan has no actual contact with the killer, all of this would have to be information available in the papers (I don’t know if the actual shape of the origami figures is public knowledge – can’t remember).
This is all possible, but it does require Ethan to actually have a split personality during his blackouts (as I think they mention he doesn’t know or think he knows how to do Origami, so it would have to be a different personality).
The issue of what happened in the park is problematic. Ethan blacks out in front of witnesses and Shaun is taken. The only credible explanation I have is this:
Ethan blacks out. Before anyone can fetch help, a policeman shows up and takes charge of the scene (we know the killer dresses as a cop to put his vicitms at ease). He bundles Ethan and Shaun into his car, saying he will take them to the hospital.
It’s possible, but it would leave lots of witnesses, who apparently don’t remember such an incident. The idea of villains hiding in plain sight as cops is old as the hills now, so surely this would have come up when the witnesses were questioned.
Shaun did disappear from the park after all, and even if the police were so incompetant they couldn’t track any of the other witnesses, there would still be the ticket booth guy.
It’s a pretty weak explanation, I know. And far be it from me to defend slip-shod writing (there are much more serious plot holes around, this is just one that everyone spots).
However that doesn’t mean the story is bad, I like that kind of story and when put simply it sounds very similar however it is told in a different way. That’s like saying Avatar is shit because on paper it’s similar to Pocahontas (except Avatar was told bettee 😉 )
But it does need to put its own spin on things in an interesting way, and/or be engrossing enough to convince us to sit through a tale we know very well.
Basically it either has to say something genuinely new on the subject at hand, or be so good as to be considered definitive (or at least as good as the source that is considered definitive).
Most film and TV stories are throwaway, precisely because they simply regurgitate old stories and characters in a generally pleasing, but not essential way.
Heavy Rain falls into this category. Its story and tone is acceptable enough, but not so amazing that people who have already seen Se7en, Saw 1, Messiah, Angel Heart etc feel it will have added anything in terms of thrills and social points to mull over.
At the end of the day, my major concern over this game isn’t its plot holes or the familarity of its story. It’s just that coming out so long after Fahrenheit and after being on the radar as a potentially great game for ages now, the finished product was a bit… blah.
I just found myself thinking ‘Is this it?!’
Because it really is just Fahrenheit with better graphics and more motion control. In terms of storytelling and the overall experience, it delivers exactly the same things as its predecessor.
True. Fahrenheit did take a massive downward turn halfway through, when the plot turns from an excellent psychic/murder mystery/ fugitive style story to just being the Matrix.
But it still had loads of great scenes and the first half of the game is superb. I preferred this first half (and bits of pieces of the second half) to Heavy Rain’s story.
HR has its moments and some of the levels are very good indeed. But overall, it felt a bit too safe, like Cage had been burned by the criticism he got over Fahrenheit’s second half.
Taking out supernatural etc elements, doesn’t automatically make a story better. You just have to do it well, and not go overboard with it to the expense of the story, like he did in the former game.
But story aside, HR and Fahrenheit are almost identical, except for the better graphics. And in a game that was talked up as so ambitious and possibly revolutionary etc, it was a bit of a shame.
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