And considering those two points, and the third point, that Galbadia is supposed to be the instigator of the world’s woes, can’t help thinking that Final Fantasy VIII sets forth covert Anti-American sentiment.
I like FFVIII, but this one point bothers me. What’s your take on it?
…I don’t suppose you’ve been out in the Nevada Desert, or to Washington D.C., have you?
Where does Esthar fit in all this? They were the cause of many woes in the past!
I guess it’s similar and I guess that I can see why you draw these visual outlines relating U.S.A with the world.
As much as I want to say that I can clearly see your point of view, I can’t. Leaders of nations have usually been viewed as tyrants regardless whether or not the game calls that leader a Prime Minister or a President. I view FFVIII like any other game that had a Prime Minister or a President represented as a Tyrant. Heck, you could call the Maesters from FFX corrupted mini-republicans if you wanted. It just doesn’t directly relate to any country in particular and if it did, I’m sure that the media would’ve caught on by now and made millions off of the controversy.
Interesting opinion of your’s though.
I can tell you think my theory’s ridiculous, but THAT is a good joke!
So Vinzer is Clinton and Edea is Al Gore?
Where does Esthar fit in all this? They were the cause of many woes in the past!
You could say that Esthar is WWII era Japan. Think about it; the Japanese bought into whatever Hitler (Adel) promised them, and after the war ended, have pretty much kept international affairs on the down low, with Esthar’s isolationist policy being an exaggeration of it. That, and Japan is one of the most technologically-inclined countries in the world, if not the greatest, and Esthar further exaggerates THAT aspect with all the technology they have. (The U.S. is at least 3 years behind Japan, technologically-speaking. Even then, it’s going to be awhile before the U.S. implements bullet trains, if ever).
Heck, you could call the Maesters from FFX corrupted mini-republicans if you wanted.
Oh, come now; my theory’s not THAT ridiculous. Besides, it’s been ages since republicans ruled via theocracy…that is, back when religious monarchies existed.
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And for those who are curious, I see Timber as being British (what with the train fetish and industrialism and all; that, and I imagine Watts having a British accent, what with saying "Sir" all the time); I see Dollet as being Italy, seeing as how they used to be an empire that ruled the world (Rome, anyone?) and Balamb seems like Australia, a largely neutral, peaceful country practically out in the middle of nowhere, and one of their greatest industries being tourism.
As for the Gardens, I’ve no idea what real world entity they could possibly resemble; for cripes sakes, mercenaries don’t get such a formal backing or training as the soldiers of armies of actual countries.
Other than that, I believe FFVIII could’ve used more countries, and that they could’ve put more political intrigue into it. Centra and Trabia are a whole lot of nothing…
Japan got to where it is by assimilating the technology we create here in the United States quicker than we do most times. Japanese people are great at fleshing out detiled stuff where Americans are just plain lazy and that is why games in Japan look so much better. As far as games go, Final Fantasy X used mainly Maya , Photoshop, and Adobe After Effects which are all American products. I can guarantee you that all of the new games which rely heavily on bump-mapping for next-gen systems will be using Zbrush 3 to create various texture elements. Zbrush is also an American product. Softimage XSI, 3D Studio Max, Cinema 4D, or just about any other mainstream 3D program that can be utilized for gaming is developed in America. All of the code used to program games in Japan is done in English because the there is no such thing as Japanese code. You cannot use Japanese characters in a line of code and get a result. Japanese characters can be inserted to display as text in a message box or various things on buttons.
As for Final Fantasy VIII, it is my favorite game of all time. Trust me, I have every piece of literature about the development of the game, interviews, videos, etc. that is available in Japan and what you are suggesting in your theory is just not the case. The English translation of the game was flawed in many places. I have played both versions side-by-side multiple times and I have a very clear understanding of the Japanese language since I studied at the Japanese linguistics and culture at a university in Japan as well as earned my degree in the field. I know for a fact that Square E.A. L.L.C. was just downright a bad entity for translating Square’s games to get them into the market quickly. Final Fantasy VII’s translation was much more solid even though it did pose some minor flaws here and there.
Final Fantasy VIII is so reflective of the core of Japanese culture from the school uniforms to the the institutional hierarchy of garden, etc. If you love Japanese culture as much as you think you do then you will play the Japanese version of Final Fantasy VIII and embrace the realistic concerns that where presently permeating Japanese society at the time the game was being developed as well as the pervasive sense of humor that the game presents.
I am not trying to knock you or anything for thinking for yourself which is a good thing but it looks like you are trying to put a more world-inclusive meaning into the game. Final Fantasy VIII was definitely not developed with American gamers in mind. There is a Final Fantasy Retrospective Part VI on www.gametrailers.com which should give you some basic background information about the game. I have libraries of information about Final Fantasy VIII in Japanese that gives you the full spectrum but it would be best that you learn Japanese first and start reading through some of the texts yourself, starting with a replay of the game in its native language and not rely on a translation.
Japanese gamers and anime fans in general, like tall white-skinned characters. Look at basically anything they produce. In fact, the man who introduced MacDonalds into Japan said if you eat food there then your skin will turn white. Make-up in Japan has a main selling-point as well and that is to make your skin white. It is a fad to be lighter-skinned in Japan. This has historical roots from the loss of World War II and Japan’s resolve to be like America but it is not manifest in Final Fantasy VIII. The reason for using white skinned characters, or American/European-looking characters is because that is what sells to the kids in Japan. Kids go to great lengths to change their look so they don’t look as Japanese by dying their hair, wearing different clothes, etc. Unfortunately, when everyone does it, they once again look the same as everyone else. Its a vicious cycle in Japan.
I hope this helps.
But then again, having the landmarks modeled after Paris is confusing as well.
I don’t actually. It was a joke, sure, but I’m all for finding parallels between videogames and real life.
Centra and Trabia are a whole lot of nothing…
Centra was established as having been the site of a massive Lunar Cry that wiped out the civilization there. I doubt the inhabitants of FFVIII felt very inclined to return there. I think that can explain why it remains deserted even today.
I didn’t mean to poke fun and insult your theory. I find it interesting and different from other opinions of the game.
My whole point was that you could take anything political (whether it be political leaders or the type of government) from a Final Fantasy and relate it to the real world. With that said, I highly doubt that FFVIII is an anti-american sentiment.
Just a couple things, then:
– In Esthar, the leader is also referred to as "President."
– Regarding Deling, Watts said that he’s "…a scoundrel!!! He’s a dictator, not a president. Not even popular in Galbadia, sir!"
I can think of at least one country whose leader is referred to as "president," but is really more of a dictator — Cuba.
Oh, and P.S. — Sophiris — I appreciate your thoughts regarding the Japanese version of the game and the translation issues the U.S. import is plagued with — they offer an insight we don’t often get here.
I can think of at least one country whose leader is referred to as "president," but is really more of a dictator — Cuba.
I’m pretty sure Watts is being figurative when he says that Deling is a dictator; he’s trying to make the point that Deling is tyrannical. Deling’s not an official dictator.
You could say that W. Bush is tyrannical, but he’s still not necessarily a dictator.
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Sophiris, I don’t see how reading a better translation of the game would differ.
I understand that FFVIII was, of course, made for the audience of its producers’ homeland, e.g., for a Japanese audience, and the possible anti-American sentiment that could be held within would make sense, because Japan still has some sense of post WWII resentment towards the U.S., what with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all, and what’s more with current trends of Western (e.g. American) imperialism, which would be expressed in FFVIII as Galbadia’s "foreign policy" of invading neighboring countries.
By all means, feel free to present a translated script, but Galbadia is still going to see a fantasy equivalent of America to me, and Vinzer Deling is still going to be a tyrant.
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Then there’s the matter of Squall looking distinctively Japanese, and Seifer, his aggressor, looking distinctively Caucasian, what with their hair styles and hair colors and what-have-you.
It’s just all too coincidental for me. Rest assured, it’s not like I’m racist against the Japanese mind you, nay, my best friends have always been people of Asian decent, from Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Singaporian, etc. It’s just that, playing JRPGs, and watching anime, every so often, I can’t help but get inklings of post WWII Japanese resentment towards the U.S.
Oh, and I’m not sure what you mean by "official dictator." Is there such a thing? My point is, even if you’re one of those that believes the worst about George W. Bush, there’s still little getting around the fact that there is a Congress, there is a Senate, as well as a large media corps that is openly critical of him.
From everything that the game indicated, Galbadia was an autocracy, with the military serving directly as enforcers. There was no free press of any sort whatsoever, and Deling’s word was law.
Oh, and I’m not sure what you mean by "official dictator." Is there such a thing? My point is, even if you’re one of those that believes the worst about George W. Bush, there’s still little getting around the fact that there is a Congress, there is a Senate, as well as a large media corps that is openly critical of him.
WHOA, there, amigo. I was just using Bush as an example, seeing as how, politically speaking, people around here don’t seem to like Bush. I’m not saying for a fact that he’s a tyrannical; I believe quite the opposite. You’re right on the fact that FFVIII was made before Bush was in power, though; that was during the Clinton administration.
All I ever claimed, was that I believe the Japanese see America as an oppressive power en generale, no matter who’s in power, and I believe it’s reflected in FFVIII. Of course, every new piece of evidence seems to indicate otherwise.
Does it really matter? He’s a dictator that died on the first disk actually…. So why does it really matter if he’s a dictator or not.. Why really write a thread about him…. I could kinda understand if he lived throughout the game… but he died on the first disk…..
And also, if you read the bulletin boards on the train when you arrive in timber when there planning what to do, the posts call him a dictator and stuff. So i kinda rest my case.
Then there’s the matter of Squall looking distinctively Japanese, and Seifer, his aggressor, looking distinctively Caucasian, what with their hair styles and hair colors and what-have-you.
WTF is that? Squall doesn’t look japanese at all. You’re confusing him with the FFX cast of characters.
My take on this is that you’re trying to dig the game too much and you’ve lost it along the way.
WTF is that? Squall doesn’t look japanese at all. You’re confusing him with the FFX cast of characters.
My take on this is that you’re trying to dig the game too much and you’ve lost it along the way.
Sorry to burst your bubble but non of the FFX characters look Japanese either… Even the al bhed don’t.. The only character that actually ever looked Japanese, or even somewhat Asian was Yuffie from FF7
And of course, Tidus and especially Wakka do in fact look Japanese, heck, if you didn’t see the Samurai in Auron, you probably didn’t play the game with your eyes open.
Oh, but of course, Kimahri didn’t look japanese at all.
Now go and get your facts straight.
Until Esthar came up and destroyed the wonderful analogy that I thought FFVIII was.
FU S-E!!!
The thing about this kind of analyzing is that you start with this "what if" idea. Then you play the game, read the book or watch the film with that particular idea kept in your thoughts. You end up looking for evidences that points in your "what if" idea’s direction.
Sadly, you can come up with stuff as absurd as the "lengendary Aerith resurected scenario" (for example).
Basically, you are not trying to understand the story, you’re actually trying to make it fit what you want it to be.
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No. Edea had lost her powers. Only a Sorceress/Witch who has her powers can be possessed by another, powerful Sorceress/Witch. If you remember, Edea’s powers transferred to Rinoa.
Too bad that’s not really pertinent to the discussion at hand.
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the game designers probably made a connection with wealth resulting in greed and war. with no connection to america.
Y’know, it’s kind of like, is Galbadia trying to take over the world of something? It’s just kind of unclear, their motive. I’m just not convinced very well of their motive; so many RPGs do it so clearly: "HAHAHAHAHA!!! WE’RE TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!" In FFVIII, that element was just kind of bland.
I mean, even after Edea falls, the only one left running the show is Seifer, and that’s…well, you have a friggin 17 year-old ex-knight running a country now? You’d think the death of Deling, and Edea’s relinquishment of power would’ve had more of an effect on Galbadia.
And where was General Caraway in all of that? He was involved in the attempted assassination of Edea; why wouldn’t he be interested in disposing Seifer as well? Is he out of the loop of information or something?
Oh yes, I love how everyone ignores how Edea killed Deling, especially after she’s come back to sanity. We all just forget about that. Realistically, it should’ve gone like this: "Bitch! You killed the leader of an entire nation, and now it’s descended into chaos!" Instead, it’s kind of like, "Okay, you killed a bad man, so it’s okay…"
Gah, so much in FFVIII just doesn’t add up…
If you count Hyne as a biblical parallel, you have to count the Crystals in almost every FF game as well; they created the world and pretty much everything, and without them the world dies. Indeed, this is the premise of more than one game. They are "God".
The thing with the crystals, is that they’re passive entities. We can’t even assume that they’re sentient; it’s just that they exist(ed), and passively created the universe. Not like they had a consciousness to be aware of what they were doing, so I wouldn’t necessarily see them as a god. I mean, it’s sort of a fantasy take on the Big Bang. If you believe in Big Bang theory, there was this gas cloud that came out of nowhere and created the universe. Where did the gas cloud come from? We don’t know, it was just there. Kind of like the crystals.
FFVIII, I believe, is the first FF to put forth the concept of God (excluding Final Fantasy Tactics, which isn’t a regularly numbered FF, and is as faraway as you can get from traditional FF, anyway).
Another interesting thing about the Sorceresses/Witches of FFVIII is, if they’re the descendants of God, why do they want to exterminate humanity so badly? Are they supposed to be God’s wrath of something? God kind of had second thoughts about having created humanity, and needed someone to clean up after Him?
Sophiris, I don’t see how reading a better translation of the game would differ.
I understand that FFVIII was, of course, made for the audience of its producers’ homeland, e.g., for a Japanese audience, and the possible anti-American sentiment that could be held within would make sense, because Japan still has some sense of post WWII resentment towards the U.S., what with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all, and what’s more with current trends of Western (e.g. American) imperialism, which would be expressed in FFVIII as Galbadia’s "foreign policy" of invading neighboring countries.
By all means, feel free to present a translated script, but Galbadia is still going to see a fantasy equivalent of America to me, and Vinzer Deling is still going to be a tyrant.
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Then there’s the matter of Squall looking distinctively Japanese, and Seifer, his aggressor, looking distinctively Caucasian, what with their hair styles and hair colors and what-have-you.
It’s just all too coincidental for me. Rest assured, it’s not like I’m racist against the Japanese mind you, nay, my best friends have always been people of Asian decent, from Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Singaporian, etc. It’s just that, playing JRPGs, and watching anime, every so often, I can’t help but get inklings of post WWII Japanese resentment towards the U.S.
The first problem with your theory is that there really isn’t much anti-American sentiment in Japan from WWII. You really need to go there, speak the language, and really get to know the people. Japanese are more pro-American then they are pro-Japanese in a lot of ways. The fact is that because of America, Japan is as prosperous today as it is and the Japanese know it. They have democracy because of America and they are thankful for it. After WWII ended, America heavily invested in and rebuilt the infrastructure of Japan which gave them a technological advantage on a global scale even over America. Especially in steel manufacturing, transportation etc. They also received a constitution similar to America which gave them more freedom then they could have ever imagined before the war. Do you really think that there is going to be such strong anti-American sentiment when the Japanese people in general gained so many advantages?
You should check out about how the Japanese in general feel about General McArthur. General McArthur is the one who was in the strategically decisive position to choose where the bombs were going to be dropped and yet the Japanese love him. This is because America was going to drop bombs originally on the historical cities in Japan such as Nara and Kyoto and McArthur stopped that from happening.
Also, if you go to Hiroshima, with the exception of the Peace Park, there are no traces of an atomic bomb being dropped there and it is prime real-estate. Nagasaki however, still looks a little run down but it was originally an industrial city to begin with where Mitsubishi, one of the main constituents of the zaibatsu were manufacturing the engines for the Zero fighters that did the kamikaze attacks which sunk and critically damaged so many of our carriers.
I think that you should also look at the right-wing extremist faction that is loyal to the monarchy that Japan originally had with the emperor and believe me, Japanese people do not want that back. This group is closely tied with the Yakuza (Japanese mafia). You may also want to do some pre-WWII research and look at the economic situation and living conditions of the Japanese people and it was extremely poor on both fronts. The emperor was primarily responsible for a majority of that do to mismanagement of the country’s funds, people, and resources.
The second problem with your theory is that Squall does not look Japanese. Trust me on this one. How many Japanese people do you know personally? Other than the occasional cosplayer, nobody is sporting the "Squall-look." Rinoa has more of a Japanese look with her dark hair but her skin color and deep-set eyes are indicative of a caucasian. The "pineapple-spiky-hairstyle" that Squall and Cloud are sporting has heavy influence from artist Akira Toriyama, who did the character design for Dragon Ball, Draon Quest, and Chrono Trigger. That is not a Japanese hairstyle, it is artistic influence. No employer in their right mind would be giving somebody in Japan a job who looks like that. Japanese culture is about conformity.
Final Fantasy VIII does not represent what you are suggesting in regards to anti-American sentiment and if you want further proof look and see if you can find the video clip of an interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi after the game was made and he makes it very clear what his intentions were. Also, the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania strategy guide has nummerous interviews with the directors, producers, artists, etc. and it contains no such references. Also, there are several other books out there with in-depth information, interviews, journals, notes, sketches, etc. about the game as well and believe me you won’t find in them what you are suggesting either.
Personally, Galbadia struck me as more inspired by the fascist, national socialist states of Western Europe during the 20th Century. Ones like Italy, Spain and (most infamously) Germany.
Furthermore, the title of president says exactly nothing about how much autocratic power the rank carries. The President of Cuba is virtually the dictator of that country, whereas the Emperor of Japan is almost completely impotent. Vinzer Deling could very well have been democratically elected, too. Benito Moussolini, Adolf Hitler, Iosef Stalin, George W. Bush and Emperor freaking Palpatine were all swept into office on a wave of popularity. Just because they’re not well liked once *in* office doesn’t make them any kind of usurper. And once in position, the laws can be changed to make a president, premier, chancellor, or minister of fluffy bunnies almost impossible to remove without force.
How could you fail to see how what I said about FFVI was a joke.
More specifically, it was me laughing at your nonsenses.
I could go on all day about which games make WWII allusions or metaphors, which country resembles Japan or Germany, who resembles Hitler, etc. Please don’t, right?
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No, don’t. These parallels you are doing could be done using any Empires throughout history. Not just the WWs.
Another thing, is about the Witchs/Sorceresses. You’d have to go out of the way to find an NPC conversation inside a house in Balamb in the beginning of the game to find this out (like, before visiting Ifrit’s Cavern), but an old man talks about Hyne, the creator of the world, or otherwise God.
The Sorceresses/Witches are supposed to be descendants of Hyne; if you remember the dialogue when Rinoa is taken off of the Ragnarok by Esthar forces right after you land, you may remember they refer to her as a descendant of Hyne, that is to say, a Sorceress/Witch.
This kind of brings me back to The Da Vinci Code. If you remember, there was whatever sect of heretics trying to hunt down the descendant of Jesus. Many descendants had already been hunted down and killed under the pretenses that they were witches.
My only point is that you should be able to concede that THAT is at least one damn clear straight parallel, otherwise I’m willing to concede that you people are just blind.
Still, I thought it was strange that they’d put a Biblical parallel in an FF game, especially one as bare story-wise as FFVIII. Then again, it’d be foolish not to put some religious references in the game when you’re putting Latin choruses into the game’s soundtrack. Otherwise, the game’s only real point is that war and political upheaval exist in contemporary times just as much as they did in medieval/ancient times.
What planet were you on during the last 2 decades? I’ll point at the MYTHOLOGIC evidences, and up to you to do your own researches. I can’t be arsed to repeat all this knowledge in one single post: Shiva, Odin, Ifrit (Efreet), Quezacoatl, Gaia, Hades, Leviathan, Gilgamesh, Cerberus, Phoenix, Behemoth, Berserk, Fenrir, Sephiroth, Tifa, Jenova(Jenovah), Midgar, Nibelheim, Ragnarok, Ondine, Esthar (Ishtar), Edea (formed with the 2 words Eden and the greek word dea), Raijin, Fujin, Bahamut, Kuja (Kujara), Freya, Pandemonium, Alexandria…
A lot of the names used in the games come from diverse Mythologies, be it Arabic, Greek, Norse, Indian, Judeo-Christian…
Do you want some other interesting stuff about the names used?
Biggs and Wedge (Star Wars), Cid (Spanish for "leader"), Hydra (a beast who gave a hard time to Hercules), Gainsborough (an english painter who had the habit of painting yound ladies in pink), Yuffie (meaning "euphoric" in Greek), Kisaragi is the second lunar month in Japan. Costa Del Sol is a real world Spanish coast paradise (meaning "Coast of the Sun"), ShinRa (Shin means "God" and Ra means "Belong to"), Irvine (means "beautiful" in Gaelic), Lindblum (means "flower" in spanish), Mog (a diminutive for the japanese word "moguri", a mix between "mole" and "bat"), Chocobo (coming from a an old chocolate brand named Chocoballs which had a yellow bird as its logo), …
Shall I add more?
What happened to your search for truth (and justice)? That’s what this’s supposed to be – a search for truth and meaning!
It is one thing to know the truth behind the game’s many aspects. It is an other thing to try to give meanings to these and see them as the truth.
What I gave you in this post is the truth. What you’ve been giving us so far are nothing more than assumptions.
So in response to your question, I am still searching for the truth. Never did I say I was looking for meanings. A Meaning is a purpose you give to something, the truth is the definite aspect of one given thing.
Again, you can make countless analogies with the stories and worlds of the Final Fantasy games. Heck, you could do that with just about any novels, movies, games, etc.
Is the only thing that your comments do to me.
Such a pile of garbage, and that last line of yours…
smarter? seriously, GTFO.
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