Sure its just a few games that appear on both systems. And sure, some of you will say that since they are PS3 launch games, the graphics are naturally going to take some time to look 1,000 times better than the Xbox 360. But you’re all wrong.
I admit, the PS3 is definately capable of producing better graphics than the Xbox 360. But we may never see enough of a difference in the games that appear on both systems to really notice a difference. Let me repeat something. The PS3 is CAPABLE of the best graphics out there, that’s it. There will never, ever, be a single PS3 game that uses the full potential of the PS3.
So, developers can tap and tap into the PS3 all they want, but it will take longer to do so than the 360. Eventually, they will just get tired of wasting their time, and ultimately, wasting opportunites to stuff their wallets with the dough. Developers will see that not only is it a lot easier to develop PS3 games, or port them, to the 360, it makes little sense to bring exclusive titles to the PS3. So, yes, Metal Gear Solid 4 would run just as smooth, maybe a tad worse graphically, on the 360 than the PS3. But, it’s just not worth it. Sony, your days are numbered.
Now, we can also safely say that neither system has yet been pushed remotely close to its limits. The question is now one of how far they will be pushed. Development costs are higher right now than they’ve ever been before and will only increase as graphics improve. Eventually, developers are going to hit a wall, a point at which improving the graphics will be detrimental to their profit margins. Once graphics hit that point, the power of both machines will cease to matter because they’ll be stalled at the same level.
But then again, it’s a pretty well-known fact that Xbox 360 games are easier to develop, making the wall a bit further off in the case of the 360. Basically, this means that the PS3 may be capable of better graphics, but the money available to be spent making games will limit its potential and the fact that the 360 will, in the long run, be less expensive to develop for means that the 360 will probably have the better graphics when all is said and done, even it will also never be used to its maximum potential.
EDIT: The Wii is neat.
You should be bringing them both down so everyone conforms to Nintendo.
Things have ways of adapting to their environment is what I always say.
Also, nobody cares about the 360 anyway. :laugh:
I’m just in it to make the point that the PS3 isn’t the be-all-end-all of gaming machines that Sony fankids claim it is.
Pfft, my mom’s the be-all-end-all of gaming machines.
same accounts for the Wii sofar
EDIT: The Wii is neat.
Im no fanchild of any of the next generation consoles, however dont you think that there will be some form of game development innovation to counter this "wall"?
Up until now, the issue has always been pushing the power of consoles in order to cope with the constantly improving graphics of games. Now that the tables have turned and the focus will mainly become developing games that can bring out as much of the consoles graphical ability as possible, isnt it possible that this new demand could redirect research and development investing. A redirection that might on day provide the PS3 and 360 with new generation games that will fully utilize their ability?
That’s another matter altogether.
Im no fanchild of any of the next generation consoles, however dont you think that there will be some form of game development innovation to counter this "wall"?
Up until now, the issue has always been pushing the power of consoles in order to cope with the constantly improving graphics of games. Now that the tables have turned and the focus will mainly become developing games that can bring out as much of the consoles graphical ability as possible, isnt it possible that this new demand could redirect research and development investing. A redirection that might on day provide the PS3 and 360 with new generation games that will fully utilize their ability?
While it might actually be possible, the current business model wouldn’t allow for it to become the norm. Consider that very few games actually have their own engines developed from the ground up. Most use existing ones developed for the most high-profile and high-budget titles. Of course, it costs quite a bit of money to acquire the right to use such things. As these engines get more complicated, it will naturally cost more for developers to use them. Combined with the already-high costs of developing for new consoles, that could easily become prohibitive.
Basically, unless there is a completely radical change in the ways games are created (which cannot be predicted and is therefore not a valid argument) that model will hold true and design aspects will be limited. I’m not saying it’s impossible for something to change drastically, but it’s not the kind of thing you can count on, and therefore not the kind of thing you can use as justification in this situation.
Even though there is a difference, the difference is harder to notice. I thought the PS3’s graphics had nicer lighting…but that’s almost the only thing I could notice….><
The thing I’m more concerned about as opposed to the PS3’s gaming power is the "Format War". There’s HD-DVD, and Blue-Ray…Blue-Ray is technically better, but it’s more expensive……It’s difficult right now to tell which one will go to the forefront.
It’s like before, with VHS and Beta…Beta’s were technically better than VHS, but in the end, VHS won out….
I wonder if the same will happen again…
Everyone already knows that one, dear.
If you don’t have anything worthwhile to contribute, don’t post meaningless shit. Especially when it’s a given fact that you don’t care two shits about me. So, basically, quit posting in here and enlightening us with your ‘knowledge’ of gaming.
EDIT: Sony has managed to barely sell 200,000 PS3’s, compared to over 2 million Wii’s already. I had to put some sort of info in this post.
Once ps3’s hardware is a little cheaper, I see a large upset happening. No doubt, if developers can continue innovating on the wii’s hardware, it’ll come out on top, but it’s really for nobody to say what’s going to happen with sony or microsoft as of yet. There’s a long ride up ahead.
in that call of duty or whatever game. it just looks like they put a fucking screen overlay. O_o
and in the football game. it just seems like it went from night to day.
and in the boxing game. it’s like all they did was remove the glare?
fucking smoke and mirrors man. nothing but fucking smoke and mirrors.
i don’t give a shit about either of those systems. they both suck to me.
LOL, you know nothing, Prak doesn’t go to Hooters, he goes to anime conventions and eats Pocky with the cute asian girls cosplaying Sailor Scouts.
I should know.
Anyway, to say sony’s days are numbered is a bit extreme. the difference in graphics is’nt much.
i could’nt even begin to start chatting technical jargon i dont even understand, i’ll leave that to prak or some1 else, but i think the ps3 will do far better than the 360 once it gets goin, this thread is bollocks.
Fix’d! :smrt:
What the piss is that supposed to mean? There is nothing wrong with pocky, anime cons, and cute cosplayers. KTHX
If you don’t understand the "technical jargon", your claim isn’t very valid.
The PS3 needs to be brought down just because of this "Blu-Ray" technology crap.
🙁
I should know.
Well, buffalo wings at hooters was the first thing that came to mind. I’ve already had my cute asian girl fix when I was with a girl named Marianne last year and let me tell you – hooters can not hold a candle to cute asian girls. So I digress my prior post to say I wouldn’t mind hanging out with you guys, Twilight is more then welcome to join, at an anime convention in Japan with several hundreds of cute asian girls.
HAWT!
^^Sad bastard^^
Somebody should stab you in the eye with a really hot french fry.
YOU TAKE IT BACK! TAKE IT BACK!!!
😛
Anyway if I have any say in this thread it will be that
although probably no game will show the fullest potential of the PS3 or the Xbox 360, I can safely say that Square Enix will probably be the one who gets the closest, not because of Final Fantasy, though it will probably be a Final Fantasy that will show us how capable these game consoles really are, but because of the white engine they are developing
Paragraph time (can’t read without paragraphs).
They are the only company to, or at least the only company to brag about, developing a game engine so powerful, they only need a few tools of the engine to complete a game. I don’t see why don’t they call it the HAHA, WE WILL KILL YOU FF HATERS engine.
I do not really support how Square Enix is partially ditching Sony, and making games distributed more evenly on the different consoles. They’ve been with Sony so long now, like nearly 10 years that you kinda of think they’re married to each other.
But Oh well. You see if they release more games on more consoles = more money = more money for developing other games = more money for developing Final Fantasy = One awesome Final Fantasy Game!
Well, someones been under a rock. :laugh:
I’ll give you a hint – look at my avatar. ~_^
Well, Nintendo DS sells more than PSP, i would not expect square to create a game on psp, because it would sell less. If ps3 doesnt sell enough, we may see square turning its interest in other consoles.
and I went back and edited my post so I didn’t give away the answer ;_;;
GG
I too loved my first 36,000 seconds of FFXII and every second after that.
THAT IS LIKE
60*60*80 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE OF TWO PLAYTHROUGHS
Anyway if I have any say in this thread it will be that
although probably no game will show the fullest potential of the PS3 or the Xbox 360, I can safely say that Square Enix will probably be the one who gets the closest, not because of Final Fantasy, though it will probably be a Final Fantasy that will show us how capable these game consoles really are, but because of the white engine they are developing
Paragraph time (can’t read without paragraphs).
They are the only company to, or at least the only company to brag about, developing a game engine so powerful, they only need a few tools of the engine to complete a game. I don’t see why don’t they call it the HAHA, WE WILL KILL YOU FF HATERS engine.
I do not really support how Square Enix is partially ditching Sony, and making games distributed more evenly on the different consoles. They’ve been with Sony so long now, like nearly 10 years that you kinda of think they’re married to each other.
But Oh well. You see if they release more games on more consoles = more money = more money for developing other games = more money for developing Final Fantasy = One awesome Final Fantasy Game!
Raidenex has stronger feelings about Square Enix that I do, but the fact that they are making Dragon Quest 9 exclusive to the DS, and not bringing it to any Sony platform, makes it hard to deny SE is ‘ditching’ Sony.
I wouldn’t say they’re "ditching" Sony. If anything, SE has been and are trying to milk any and every game system possible – Sony PS, PS2, PS3, PSP, Nintendo GC, GBA, DS, Wii (eventually), Microsoft XBox, XBox 360, computers. And now, but not new to, cell phones – they actualy have a handfull of games on cell phones now. And they are actualy coming out with a "dance" game with Destiny’s Child (http://www.square-enix.com/na/company/press/2006/1128/) for cell phones soon. Only time will tell if SE decides to put the regular FF games on all 3 consoles just to make money through that trifecta.
(referring to people who think SE will make more money by putting a game out for every console)
If Sony plan to make software really look better on the PlayStation 3 then they have to lead the charge. Sony has an internal game studio, ergo you would expect them to have an easier time when building titles for their new flagship model. If they can really show off something that is at least visually stunning they can throw down a gauntlet and inspire others out there to pick it up.
Maybe they could even devote some time to building a few engines and frameworks. Anything that makes developing for the PlayStation 3 easier can only be a good thing. The Xbox has a real edge, development is not only easier but its cheaper too.
Its funny. Take a step back for a second and think about both consoles, they really show a difference in philosophy. The Sony PlayStation 3 is all about what’s better, more difficult to produce and more expensive; while the Microsoft Xbox 360 is all about what is solid, easier to produce and cheaper. All other things being equal, Sony’s machine would win out in the long run, but will it survive long enough to actually see that day? Time will tell I guess.
I remember seeing an article at IGN Australia’s website, where sales projections for the newest consoles were being estimated at the year 2012. It was predicted that by then Sony’s PlayStation 3 would have sold 120+ million units; knocking both Microsoft’s and Nintendo’s latest entries out of the water by far. A little optimistic no?? 🙂
HAWT!
Somebody should stab you in the eye with a really hot french fry.
Hahaha that would hurt, the yuna girl does look very nice, dunno about that ashe 1 at the bottom though looks a bit dodgy to me.
If developers really want to present a game that will set new standards, they must be prepared to spend time, and the PS3 is a great platform to do that, because they’ll be forced to spend heaps of time anyway ^_^
But for those who don’t want to read it let me abridge it for you by posting the major graphic in question. Have a look:
But for those who don’t want to read it let me abridge it for you by posting the major graphic in question. Have a look:
Try swapping the PS3 and Wii around.
This Christmas has been insanely good for the Xbox 360, easily outselling all the available PS3 and Wii stock. Although this isn’t a measure of success (because of limited stock of competing consoles), it shows that it is more popular than the original Xbox, at least.
On an interesting side note, Blue Dragon, an exclusive X360 RPG developed by Hironobu Sakaguchi, has outsold The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess in Japan. That is a huge breakthrough into the Japanese market, and one worth applauding.
Also, to elaborate on Smokey’s comments, I merely have a hunch that Square Enix is realising that the PlayStation 3 does not have a high enough installed base to shift the kind of numbers they are used to. Reese’s’ is correct in that Square Enix want to make the most money possible; and it is entirely plausible that if the PS3 installed base worldwide does not start to approach the installed base of the X360 by Christmas next year, we may see a dual-console release of Final Fantasy XIII, or even an Xbox 360 exclusive. The reason Dragon Quest IX is a DS exclusive is because the console has a humongous installed base in Japan; and remember, to the Japanese market, Dragon Quest is more important than Final Fantasy. So if Square Enix is willing to take their flagship Japanese title to another console for the sake of sales, it makes sense to take Final Fantasy to another console.
To complete my prognostication, this is something that has no basis, except in my dreams; I believe that the Kingdom Hearts franchise would flourish on the Wii. The cartoon graphics that KH uses would not benefit from a next-generation overhaul; the Wii could make it look prettier just fine. Also, the Disney-age demographic is a market that Nintendo has covered. Finally, it makes sense to put an action-based RPG on a console practically designed for it, as demonstrated by Zelda. Swinging the Wii-mote to swing your Wii-blade? Shaking the Nunchuck to cast magic? The more I think about Kingdom Hearts III on the Wii, the more i want it.
I can do that with my mobile phone =/
I am surfing the net with my computer right now.
They are the only company to, or at least the only company to brag about, developing a game engine so powerful, they only need a few tools of the engine to complete a game. I don’t see why don’t they call it the HAHA, WE WILL KILL YOU FF HATERS engine.
In all honesty, show me how Square have really pushed a console to its "fullest potential." FFXII didn’t really look that much better than, say, shadow of the titan or whatever the hell that game was my mind is taking a fart.
Hell, just show me the games that Square has released that have supposedly pushed consoles so far and made them look amazing. FFX was okay, I guess, maybe. FF7 was honestly the last one that really did anything with a major wow-factor.
Fucking FF fanboys. Do none of you realise that Square really hasn’t done much right other than the FF games, and even they have been a bit shit?
What’re you going to quote at me, Kingdom Hearts? Erghiez? SAMURAI GUY BISHONEN DOOP DOOP POOP?
Do not care.
Also, hey guys the PS3 is pretty big. Or should I say the P$�.
LOL.
Hell, just show me the games that Square has released that have supposedly pushed consoles so far and made them look amazing. FFX was okay, I guess, maybe. FF7 was honestly the last one that really did anything with a major wow-factor.
Fucking FF fanboys. Do none of you realise that Square really hasn’t done much right other than the FF games, and even they have been a bit shit?
What’re you going to quote at me, Kingdom Hearts? Erghiez? SAMURAI GUY BISHONEN DOOP DOOP POOP?
Do not care.
Also, hey guys the PS3 is pretty big. Or should I say the P$�.
LOL.
i don’t know personally. but does shadow of the collusus have as much playing hours as any of those games? the best looking games are prolly really short. while the longest games are prolly less than awesome or wahtever. who knows.
i always assumed they had to sacrifice the gfx to make the story fit. but that’s just an assumption. all i know is thing’s didn’t even become apparent to me until i recently got my copy of the ff8 strategy guide and laughed when i saw how the characters looked. in my memory, they looked as good as the ff12 chars do. i never realized they looked that blocky. lol
but i don’t know. just trying to set you straight cause the shadow example seemed like a bad one. i think its a short game. but idk. haven’t played it. :p
Anyway, I still love the designs in Final Fantasy.
i always assumed they had to sacrifice the gfx to make the story fit. but that’s just an assumption. all i know is thing’s didn’t even become apparent to me until i recently got my copy of the ff8 strategy guide and laughed when i saw how the characters looked. in my memory, they looked as good as the ff12 chars do. i never realized they looked that blocky. lol
but i don’t know. just trying to set you straight cause the shadow example seemed like a bad one. i think its a short game. but idk. haven’t played it. :p
Please take the time to learn about a subject before airing an uneducated opinion.
Game coding, for example, the graphics engine and scenario design, take up relatively little space. Remember that Final Fantasy VI, a game with a story as long as any modern RPG, was a little under 4 MB; and most of that was graphic design. All the space requirements in modern games are taken up by textures and full motion video. Shadow of the Colossus is a rare exception in that it uses no FMV, and simple textures; in fact, the entire ISO for SotC is only 1.8 GB. In comparison, Final Fantasy XII is 3 GB, as it relies on simple polygons with detailed textures to achieve its graphics style. The code for Final Fantasy XII’s scenario is only a fraction of this size, as is the actual code for the graphics engine.
Apart from that, you missed the point entirely; what he said is that Square Enix games do not push the envelope. It is a statement that I both agree and disagree with; Final Fantasy XII is not a technical achievement, but I believe it is a great design achievement. It uses literally half the polygons in its characters than Final Fantasy X, and yet still ends up looking better. That can only be achieved through intelligent design.
Games like Shadow of the Colossus make the PlayStation 2 do things that no one thought it could; the draw distance, scale and detail of SotC is unprecedented. It is a monumental technical achievement, that is lucky to be backed by a solid game design principle (that was soundly ripped off by Zelda: Twilight Princess for at least two of its bosses).
Still, Square have made a name for themselves for pioneering graphics and polish on systems; they’ve shown this again with Final Fantasy III DS, one of the best looking games on the system, and early reports have said that Crisis Core on the PSP looks BETTER than any Square PS2 game. They are hardly the only company doing so though; Kojima Production’s Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops is a sound PSP rendition of the Snake Eater engine, and Metal Gear Solid 4 looks to be the technical showcase for the PlayStation 3. In other systems, Epic’s Gears of War pushes the Xbox 360 past even the standard set by MGS4.
And if anyone want’s another example of Scenario Design taking so little space, think FFVIII and FFXII. Although FFXII is arguably 20 hours longer than FFVIII, FFXII is roughly only 200mb larger than FFVIII.
It’s true; the graphic designer of the Final Fantasy XII staff said it in an interview. I’ll find the article if I can, but I read it over a year ago. If you look at screenshots, you can tell.
And if anyone want’s another example of Scenario Design taking so little space, think FFVIII and FFXII. Although FFXII is arguably 20 hours longer than FFVIII, FFXII is roughly only 200mb larger than FFVIII.
You missed my point entirely. For starters, Final Fantasy XII is by no means 20 times longer than Final Fantasy VIII, and even if it was, the size is based entirely on textures and fmv. Scenario design is a negligible amount.
Game coding, for example, the graphics engine and scenario design, take up relatively little space. Remember that Final Fantasy VI, a game with a story as long as any modern RPG, was a little under 4 MB; and most of that was graphic design. All the space requirements in modern games are taken up by textures and full motion video. Shadow of the Colossus is a rare exception in that it uses no FMV, and simple textures; in fact, the entire ISO for SotC is only 1.8 GB. In comparison, Final Fantasy XII is 3 GB, as it relies on simple polygons with detailed textures to achieve its graphics style. The code for Final Fantasy XII’s scenario is only a fraction of this size, as is the actual code for the graphics engine.
Apart from that, you missed the point entirely; what he said is that Square Enix games do not push the envelope. It is a statement that I both agree and disagree with; Final Fantasy XII is not a technical achievement, but I believe it is a great design achievement. It uses literally half the polygons in its characters than Final Fantasy X, and yet still ends up looking better. That can only be achieved through intelligent design.
Games like Shadow of the Colossus make the PlayStation 2 do things that no one thought it could; the draw distance, scale and detail of SotC is unprecedented. It is a monumental technical achievement, that is lucky to be backed by a solid game design principle (that was soundly ripped off by Zelda: Twilight Princess for at least two of its bosses).
Still, Square have made a name for themselves for pioneering graphics and polish on systems; they’ve shown this again with Final Fantasy III DS, one of the best looking games on the system, and early reports have said that Crisis Core on the PSP looks BETTER than any Square PS2 game. They are hardly the only company doing so though; Kojima Production’s Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops is a sound PSP rendition of the Snake Eater engine, and Metal Gear Solid 4 looks to be the technical showcase for the PlayStation 3. In other systems, Epic’s Gears of War pushes the Xbox 360 past even the standard set by MGS4.
my opinions don’t have to be taken if they are not wanted. but how many more times do i have to use the words "not sure, maybe, assume, if" and others to emphasize the fact that everything i’m currently saying is just guesswork and your all free to set me straight if need be. :p (which you did, so..thanks. :p)
nothing i said could be quoted to imply my opinion was the correct one. 😉
anyway. sotc used simple textures? the way i understand graphics, is that everything is nothing but wireframes until covered in their skins "textures and stuff". and the higher the quality the more size they take up just like any jpg or gif image. this makes sense to me.
then we have how much are loaded per map/area at one time. the bigger you wanna make the area, the more you might have to sacrifice in detail. the smaller the areas, the more you can show off. one or the other. (i think)
this is why i decided to argue against you guys (or him, or..whoever). cause in my mind, from what i HEARD, sotc is like "gorgeous". so they say. lenthwise? i assume it’s short. the argument is square doen’st push the limits so we should all stop talking about it like they are awesome because sotc is more awesome. (that’s what he said in simpler terms right?)
to which i would reply "well maybe its because ff games are so long".
to which you replied "no cause lenght doesn’t really add anything to it. what does that are movies and stuff".
to which i would say "yah that’s what i mean! all games use textures and skins and stuff. why did you suddenly start talking about not that?"
to which you would say "idk… i just know how games work and if we stripped both games off their skins and textures and reduced it to nothing but polygons niether of those games would take up more than like 100 megs"
to which i would say. "yah but…i bet ff12 takes up like 101 megs and sotc prolly only 99! so i’m right!"
then the other dude would be like "stfu tact you don’t know what your arguing about anymore"
and then i’d say "yah, i owned you cause we totally went off topic talking about game mechanics and revolutionary new ways to display things on screen to create the illusion of better grahpics which means i was right that there was no room cause sotc is being praised for taking the ‘smart’ approach of getting more bang for their polygons!" burned!! lol :p
(or was that ff12 that did that? lol)
if they both used the same engines or whatever, ff12 would totally take up more room. pfft. -_-
no but seriously. i think it all boils down to the fact that i don’t think i care anymore. i just needed to defend ff cause i hate poeple who hate ff all because ff is talked about too much.
you wanna know what i’d "quote" ya? i’d quote ya ff origins biatch!! lol
You are really a crazy person, aren’t you?
Seriously, I can’t understand your last post, let alone respond to it 🙁
In other words: "stfu tact you don’t know what you’re arguing about anymore."
Hell, just show me the games that Square has released that have supposedly pushed consoles so far and made them look amazing. FFX was okay, I guess, maybe. FF7 was honestly the last one that really did anything with a major wow-factor.
Fucking FF fanboys. Do none of you realise that Square really hasn’t done much right other than the FF games, and even they have been a bit shit?
What’re you going to quote at me, Kingdom Hearts? Erghiez? SAMURAI GUY BISHONEN DOOP DOOP POOP?
LOL.
Um… Final fantasy 6 and 9 pushed the Snes and Psone pretty damn hard.
At the risk of sound like a FF fanboy,
I agree with the non FF games being a bit shit, I can’t think of a single Square enix game that lives up to the massive name Square enix games get other than some of the the Final fantasy games.
Ive not played all that many of them though, The only one i own is Kingdom hearts and i though it was quite good but not all that special.
Haha, what?
Seriously; Final Fantasy VI had good art direction, but nothing that really pushed the SNES. It used sprite animation, and a Mode 7 overworld while flying; that’s it, really. Games like Starwing (Star Fox in the US) and Yoshi’s Island are stand-out games on that system, for early 3D modelling and excellent scaling/transforming respectively.
And while Final Fantasy VII was a good showcase for the brand new PlayStation console, Final Fantasy IX wasn’t really anything special. The graphics engine was practically the same as the one used in Final Fantasy VIII. The main fanfare for graphical prowess on the PlayStation 1 Square games was the quality of its FMV, which was unheard of at the time (and I still believe that Square Enix Pictures produce some of the best FMV on the market), but FMV has nothing to do with processing power.
Seriously; Final Fantasy VI had good art direction, but nothing that really pushed the SNES. It used sprite animation, and a Mode 7 overworld while flying; that’s it, really. Games like Starwing (Star Fox in the US) and Yoshi’s Island are stand-out games on that system, for early 3D modelling and excellent scaling/transforming respectively.
And while Final Fantasy VII was a good showcase for the brand new PlayStation console, Final Fantasy IX wasn’t really anything special. The graphics engine was practically the same as the one used in Final Fantasy VIII. The main fanfare for graphical prowess on the PlayStation 1 Square games was the quality of its FMV, which was unheard of at the time (and I still believe that Square Enix Pictures produce some of the best FMV on the market), but FMV has nothing to do with processing power.
i knew it! it was those damned fmv’s that made everyone think the ps1 was better than the n64 back in the days. arg it pissed me off so much. cursed noobs. -_- ah well.
anyway. it helps if you read my other post slowly. streaming through it wouldn’t work because my diction doesn’t flow. I’d have to add a bunch of useless articles and extend contractions to achieve that affect. just read it slowly. lol
it wasn’t important anyway. i know i won. hehe
I’m using a Kusanagi.
I’m off to find some wii-mote compatible flash games!
I’m off to find some wii-mote compatible flash games!
I can’t find the beta 🙁
Way hot.
DOUBLE SLASH
Well, since you’re 16, do you have a hot, older, ADULT sister?
gogo PM
Curly says GO!
Just for the record.
Just for the record.
The way generations are changing here in the U.S., they might as well make 16 the legal age now.
Just for the record.
That law is a farce. Girls under the age of 16 can legally purchase contraception with a doctor’s prescription and without any parental consultation at all. Some as young as 12 or 13 regularly do.
Raidenx, over 40% of teenagers under the age of 16 in Vic are sexually active, according to the Age newspaper earlier this month.
I don’t believe there is a law that stipulates at what age a male can be sexually active anyway, only females. I know that was definetly the case a few years ago but I’m not sure if it is anymore.
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