1. THE RAIDERS MARCH (02:50)
2. MAIN TITLE: SOUTH AMERICA, 1936 (04:10)
3. IN THE IDOL'S TEMPLE (05:26)
4. FLIGHT FROM PERU (02:20)
5. JOURNEY TO NEPAL (02:11)
6. THE MEDALLION (02:55)
7. TO CAIRO (01:29)
8. THE BASKET GAME (05:04)
9. THE MAP ROOM: DAWN (03:52)
10. REUNION AND THE DIG BEGINS (04:10)
11. AIRPLANE FIGHT (04:37)


Disc/Cassette 2


1. THE WELL OF THE SOULS (11:27)
2. DESERT CHASE (08:15)
3. MARION'S THEME (02:08)
4. THE GERMAN SUB/TO THE NAZI HIDEOUT (04:32)
5. ARK TREK (01:33)
6. THE MIRACLE OF THE ARK (06:05)
7. THE WAREHOUSE (00:56)
8. END CREDITS (05:20)

note marion's theme had a jump in it so I included side four in flac

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U6LZTGNC)

Thank you! ;)

did you get a chance to listen to it yet

I did (partially)

I did (partially)

Impressions?

I have several question to ask... =)

Has it been ripped directly in 16bit, or did you make it to 24 before? My first impression is that the resolution could have been better. I somehow prefer somehow your sound than the LP track we've heard before in the other thread, and this DESPITE yours doesn't sound technicaly as good, nor has as much dynamyc range... Though... The range of your rip is much pronounced in the mediums than in the highs wich look like you've tried to temper.
... And I don't regret that cause the clinicaly clean mastering of Steve Hoffman gives me nervous breakdown !

Many little deffects through some noises, not always due to cracklings must be said, did not spoil my pleasure at all. I heard like an asteroid rain of cracks in the end of the End titles though... Is it normal ?

Also, you joined track 14, Marion's theme, uncut... I mean the whole side four is still stuck on that track (so we've got all the following tracks twice) and you left it in Flac instead of wavs (it's rather you forgot to convert all the rest), just FYI.

Overall: If it's your first rip I think it's a good beginning and I'll sure enjoy it, more than the overly clean CD. I don't know how can we calculate the range, but for me it'll be better than the DCC CD.

Did you listen the "private" Raiders remastered I posted a while before btw ? As the thread died instantly to be on page 20 by now of this forum I think, I removed the link as it has gone unnoticed so far (and in the wrong thread anyway). Some gems pop and go...

Hope you can get some advises from anyone more able than me to speak about your work. Once again: not perfect for sure, but really not bad at all !

it was a straight vinyl rip I didn't tamper with any of the range I left it as it was. The copy I have is near mint condition it's rarely been played before. I recorded it in 32bit 4100hz. Marion's theme if you listen to it has a skip because the needle moved during the recording so I left it in lossless so it didn't spoil the presentation. Also it amazes me that they could of included the other unreleased tracks and it could of been a complete score on vinyl. It would of fit on the record. I did download raiders remastered before the link was remove. I just can't figure why the desert chase is shorter at 8:05 instead of 8:15 which I listen to it and heard every part of the cue.

I just can't figure why the desert chase is shorter at 8:05 instead of 8:15 which I listen to it and heard every part of the cue.

My guess: Your LP player speed (I got the feeling it was not the same speed I know, but I wouldn't bother at this point) + certainly the removed silences on the remastered. Anyway, my question was more about if it was worth the download for you... Maybe I was right to remove it, or maybe some people just missed something, I don't know as far as nobody never told.

My guess: Your LP player speed (I got the feeling it was not the same speed I know, but I wouldn't bother at this point) + certainly the removed silences on the remastered. Anyway, my question was more about if it was worth the download for you... Maybe I was right to remove it, or maybe some people just missed something, I don't know as far as nobody ever told.

Arial, I've sent you a pm. :)

yes it was worth downloading i used it for my film version edit because I used my vinyl rip for the complete score

Arial, I've sent you a pm. :)

I know sorry, but as you can understand I removed something (from a topic that wasn't appropriate) cause I spoke about it and some have requested it then. No feedback after weeks: I removed the stuff, so you can think it's not for uploading it again for selfish lurkers ! lol (don't take it personal, it's my statement after seeing none let me know).

But if any one who has DL it thinks it's worth its topic, I'm telling thhem: go ahead, reup it !

Ok, then I sent a pm to jacksparrow900 :D.

(however Arial, could you please contact me for more informations about that version? Even privately, if you prefer it...)

I know sorry, but as you can understand I removed something (from a topic that wasn't appropriate) cause I spoke about it and some have requested it then. No feedback after weeks: I removed the stuff, so you can think it's not for uploading it again for selfish lurkers ! lol (don't take it personal, it's my statement after seeing none let me know).

But if any one who has DL it thinks it's worth its topic, I'm telling thhem: go ahead, reup it !

What was all that in english ?. [That's an expression we use in England to signify something is not understood].

Perhaps not the best reply. But you seem to be offering "someone" the opportunity to re-upload "something", that is not specified ?.

yes it was worth downloading i used it for my film version edit because I used my vinyl rip for the complete score

I'm telling you a secret here: the Desert Chase on his edit misses a tiny bar (He indeed didn't want to insert that half of a second bit cause he found it good like it was). Don't ask me where exactly, but it's near the end. Editing the POLYDOR speed corrected remastered with the DCC is surely not obvious, so we can understand why he left that bit

---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------




(however Arial, could you please contact me for more informations about that version? Even privately, if you prefer it...)

Reedited and Remastered from:
The 1981 Original Album (OST) All speed/pitch corrected
The 1995 Expanded DCC Release
The 2008 Unprocessed "Raiders" Prototype for the Concord Release
The awful 2008 Concord Release (here track 12pt 2, and partially track 13)

film version

Hotfile.com: One click file hosting: Raiders of the Lost Ark.rar (http://hotfile.com/dl/118646490/0fdad36/Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark.rar.html)

I think people are gonna melt the whole discussion now...

---------- Post added at 06:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------


What was all that in english ?. [That's an expression we use in England to signify something is not understood].

Perhaps not the best reply. But you seem to be offering "someone" the opportunity to re-upload "something", that is not specified ?.

I pm'd you again btw, I forgot something...

Worth to say it is lossless though, just saying cause if it's what JP900 just posted to make his film version I might be very frustrated something meant to be done for having a really great dynamic range recovered to be turned into a 152mb file !

... You people... !

if he want's the original files someone else is going to have to upload it cause I don't have it anymore but i didn't alter anything just the film edits that were done I didn't tamper with the sound at all

Just a few thoughts, and I'll start with a pernickerty one: You can't rip an LP. You can transfer it. "Rip" means to accurately copy digital data from one medium to another. Getting music from an analogue source into the digital domain is an entirely different kettle of fish and the quality of the results are entirely dependent on the experience and ability of the person doing the transfer. Calling it a "rip" does the work you put in something of a disservice.

Now... why on earth would one want to transfer Raiders, anyway? There are some scores where you can argue in favour of a good LP transfer (notably Jerry Goldsmith's Poltergeist, which was dreadful on CD) but for the most part, you get nothing. Fans of analogue like to speak at great length at how an LP sounds better than a CD but this is simply not true; it sounds "different" and all the warmth that people claim they hear inherent in vinyl recordings is in actuality nothing more than distortion. Remember how vinyl works; a piece of diamond attached to a metal bar is dragged through a groove made of plastic and filled with dirt, dust, grease, and God-knows what else.

I love the sound of vinyl, but I'm under no delusions regarding why it sounds the way it does. For archival purposes, digital recording is inherently superior - as it is from the perspective of attempting to accurately capture the sound of humans playing music.

If the answer to "why transfer the Raiders LP?" is "for nostalgia", or "because I like it" then I'll shut up right now... but if the answer is "because it sounds better" then I would vehemently argue against that position.

So, to Raiders... the CD releases aren't perfect but pitch issues aside, they do sound like a shockingly well-recorded symphony orchestra playing in one of the most envied studio spaces in the world. As orchestral recordings go, Raiders is a benchmark - Eric Tomlinson's masterful engineering, Abbey Road's gorgeous acoustic, and an unobstusive mix that gets out of the way and allows the orchestra to sound like an orchestra. (Hoffman's mastering is SUPERB!)

The LP transfer does sound reasonable (JackSparrow's) - but in places it sounds horrific (2:25 to 2:34 in Airplane Fight, for example) and on the whole has no sound quality benefit over the CD. (Not in frequency response, not in dynamic range, not anywhere.) The higher frequencies are distorted, and there appears to be a distinct lack of midrange and bass. This could be for a number of reasons; the record could just sound like that. Or it could be related to Jack's turntable, or his ADC, or the state of wear of his stylus, or his cartridge assembly, etc, etc, etc, etc. Too many variables with vinyl.

Incidentally, the End Title sounds like shit because of yet another shortcoming of vinyl. The record rotates at the same speed throughout playback, which means that as the tonearm approaches the centre of the record, the speed of the record relative to the stylus (ie, the quantity of vinyl passing physically beneath it) is actually decreasing. This manifests itself in a steady dropoff in high frequencies and an increase in distortion.

Think about what a good orchestra in a good concert hall actually sound like. If you've never had the pleasure, buy yourself some tickets to your local symphony and discover.

If any of this sounds like criticism of any individual, IT'S NOT. I love hearing these transfers - I'm just curious as to the reasons behind making them. :)

You have a point, or even many. Yeah, it deffinitely sounds distorted, and the high distortion is even more obvious.

As for "superb" mastering From S Hoffman, I agree in a way as it's very well managed next to every official releases, but personnaly I find its sound aggressive: the brass finishes to be very tiring and (edit) they spoil a lot other sections of the orchestra because of this, wich sounds rather due to mastering choices than the mixing itself.
It doesn't compare with an audiophile orchestra experience so much (!), Tomlinson recording or not. However, listen to Batman 1989 as rendered by LLL: THAT sounds like orchestra ! Thanks to Tomlison again, notably.

Great analysis.

i'll try to fix the range and distortion

You can't. ;)

It's an LP. And a thirty year-old one at that.

There are some scores where you can argue in favour of a good LP transfer (notably Jerry Goldsmith's Poltergeist, which was dreadful on CD) but for the most part, you get nothing. Fans of analogue like to speak at great length at how an LP sounds better than a CD but this is simply not true; it sounds "different" and all the warmth that people claim they hear inherent in vinyl recordings is in actuality nothing more than distortion.

BTW, I agree warmth is not enough. I don't know if you listened to The Dark Knight vinyl r... Errr... transfer around, but truth is you can hear a lot more than on the CD, if not everything, on the contrary of the album - And on the contrary of the leaked studio mixes. And for what is about distortion you'll admit the soundtrack industry currently shows how far digital one is common, and how far it can kill the music.

the lp is not 30 years old it came out in 1995 and when I bought a few years ago it was sealed never played so I'm the first to play it.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------


BTW, I agree warmth is not enough. I don't know if you listened to The Dark Knight vinyl r... Errr... transfer around, but truth is you can hear a lot more than on the CD, if not everything, on the contrary of the album - And on the contrary of the leaked studio mixes. And for what is about distortion you'll admit the soundtrack industry currently shows how far digital one is common, and how far it can kill the music.

that's true my original beatles albums I can hear more than the remastered cd's

the lp is not 30 years old it came out in 1995 and when I bought a few years ago it was sealed never played so I'm the first to play it.

Don't listen to him... Who doesn't do doesn't learn. You'll come to your own conclusions. ;)

Forgive my assumption that a soundtrack album for a thirty year-old film would be thirty years old. My point stands; whether a record is thirty years old or fifteen years old or ten minutes old, it's still a record - an inherently inaccurate, noisy recording medium based upon technology designed in the nineteenth century.

As for current digital recording practices... they stink. Technology has moved forward, but technique has moved backward. We're now in a position where a recording made forty years ago on analog tape is a better recording than something made today with state of the art equipment. But I don't blame digital recording; I blame the idiots at the controls.

Digital > Analog.
**but**
Engineers In The Analog Era > Engineers In The Digital Era.

As for hearing extra stuff on the vinyl as compared to the CD, that could be simply that the vinyl is a different mix by a different engineer. It could be that the CD was poorly mastered. It could be differences between the equipment used for reproduction of the CD versus the LP. It could be distortions that sound like useful signal. And, it could be all in your head. (I'm not being insulting when I say that - just honest; as humans we are biased and when we go into a situation with an expectation, our brains will often manufacture stuff for us that helps us to rationalise that expectation and provide us with the "evidence" we need to justify it.

I've done it so many times I do not trust my own ears.

I concur with the "Its all in your head" point probability, hoping it makes me a little more trusty for the exemple I gave, haha. And although I feel the distortion in this very same exemple (TDK vinyl) make no mistake about it: it's somehow so obviously tempering the sound as part of it that you can chose to ignore it once for all and discover what's in there. Archer strokes are not from my imagination and if you can hear some on any other mixing, even a bit, I'll give you my phone number! =) Maybe some mixing get more advantages on LPs, I've read an interview recently of a musician who goes on with releasing LPs next to his CDs and said mixing his LPs was a lot easier.

A question for you, getting back almost on topic, the Polydor Raiders album as remastered as I told sounds really great overall, but here again you can still feel the distortion from analog source in some tracks, notably the ones that are powerful (Basket game, Desert Chase, End Credits...). Do you know how they managed to transfer the LP versions to digital ? I mean - I guess there were LP masters, but in wich format ? Tapes or what.

... And don't worry, I love your frankness. Just learning ;-)

Forgive my assumption that a soundtrack album for a thirty year-old film would be thirty years old. My point stands; whether a record is thirty years old or fifteen years old or ten minutes old, it's still a record - an inherently inaccurate, noisy recording medium based upon technology designed in the nineteenth century.

I've done it so many times I do not trust my own ears.

Tangotreats, I just LOVE the way you put things. Some say that you are too nasty in your assessments, but I find it truthfull and straight, as I have said in the past. You don't pull your punches, and get all "PC" about the subject. Coming from a recording tech perspective, I agree with 99% of what you have said, and it almost sounds like you are a recording tech as well. Is this so?

William

What's "PC" ?

... And yeah, Tango shouldn't apologyse when he says things.

What's "PC" ?

... And yeah, Tango shouldn't apologyse when he says things.

PC stands for politically correct (and also personal computer), but William meant the former.

I think there is a certain "expectation" about what a CD should sound like nowadays. Fortunately, it's hard to press an LP with all the levels slammed up to F*****G MAX (because the groove will literally hit its neighbour and bounce the stylus right off the record) and when somebody is mastering vinyl, they tend to be a bit more careful... and they're mindful of their audience. Mastering (and cutting) an LP is a fine art which is obviously about making the music sound good, but it's also about the physical construction of a vinyl record. A badly mastered LP won't just sound like arse; in some cases it physically will not play.

I expect that's why, nowadays, people tend to prefer the vinyl to the CD... because the vinyl tends to be mixed properly and the CD is mixed to appeal to a fourteen year-old who is almost deaf through listening to 128kbps MP3s through his iPod earbuds at maximum volume all day long...

In the case of a professional transfer, the masters are almost always going to be tapes - but we're not talking about some crappy consumer cassette tape - we're talking about studio-standard open reel tapes. Occasionally, something gets mastered from vinyl - if the tapes have disappeared or they're too knackered to use. In those cases, the records are thoroughly cleaned (usually in a machine explicitly designed for that purpose) and then played back on an industrial turntable, through a good quality ADC, into the digital domain. After that they can be processed, restored, remastered, whatever. A good transfer can sound really, really excellent - but will still sound like an LP no matter what you do to it.

Old tapes are particularly sensitive about the environment in which they're stored. Certain makes of tape produced in the seventies and eighties are quite notorious for what is known as "sticky shed syndrome". Basically what happens is that the adhesive disintegrates and the oxide (the brownish magnetic substance on which the music is actually stored) starts to peel away from the plastic backing section (the tape) - and suddenly your greatly important historical recording is a little pile of brown dust on the floor! You may have heard about "baking tapes" - this is a technique that involves sticking the tapes in a low-heat oven. Excess moisture is evaporated and you can usually get the tape through one last playback cycle before it's totally fucked. Obviously you have to do this before you play it (because the act of playing it messes it up, usually beyond repair) and you get one shot. (At this stage, it's usually professionally transferred to digital and the tape goes in the bin.)

A well-stored tape that is in good condition can easily surpass CD quality and beyond. All the benefits of analog, and none of the disadvantages of vinyl.

William: I'm a dabbler; I get around, and I'm a nosey bastard. I do freelance work as a transfer and restoration technician. I've done a bit of live recording but only for small ensembles, and recorded a solo guitar album a few years ago as a favour for a friend. Nothing fancy. Foremost, I'm a musician but I like to keep up with the technical side of things as well. :)

Old tapes are particularly sensitive about the environment in which they're stored. Certain makes of tape produced in the seventies and eighties are quite notorious for what is known as "sticky shed syndrome". Basically what happens is that the adhesive disintegrates and the oxide (the brownish magnetic substance on which the music is actually stored) starts to peel away from the plastic backing section (the tape) - and suddenly your greatly important historical recording is a little pile of brown dust on the floor!...

Indeed. You just reminded me what I know about it so far: Most of the material after the 70s - 80s lost an essential preservation technique *ie* the employment of seal's oil for preserving the tapes. They used something else after (I don't remember what), and all of this new stuff is as you say, returning to dust.

Only the seals can live a little more happier regarding this.


PS: oh, and thanks for the tip Bishty.

This record is an 180-gram vinyl. I heard they are pretty heavy... maybe the turntable (or the needle) can't handle records like this very well...

Anyway, thanks for your initiative. It's been 16 years since this album was released, and it's the first time I ever saw a complete transfer...

Thank you for this - always wanted to hear the lp version of this DCC release. I had the CD, but was hoping for this... THANKS!

The DCC LP has the Well of Souls with the extra "Marion Into The Pit" at the end.

Any hope for a re-up?

Didn't know this was ever on the Shrine. Bought a sealed copy on eBay a couple of weeks ago. Not had chance to listen yet.

It would be great to have a good 24bit rip of this fantastic 2 LP set... :)

It would be great to have a good 24bit rip of this fantastic 2 LP set... :)

Done (http://forums.ffshrine.org/f92/john-williams-raiders-lost-ark-dcc-2xlp-169754/#post2616522)

...Good or not is another matter...

Regards

Merrick

Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Merrick!