Seems like the fanbase is dwindling, seeing as FFX and FFXII didn't sell as well as the earlier titles in the series.
Are gamers tastes simply changing?
JRPGs will always remain popular, although WRPGs have been gaining some more ground.

What are your thoughts on this?

And I apologize if there is already a thread like this one. >.>
I used the Forum Search function and nothing came up like this topic...

IMO, it isn't the result of FFX and FFXII that the series is becoming a bit more frowned-upon by many gamers. It's the recent let-down that was XIII, which as I just stated in the FFXIII section, isn't as horrible as it's made out to be depending on how you view it. True, the series has branched out immeasurably from its roots over the years, and as there are as many differing opinions as there are grains of sand, there will always be some people vehemently opposed, and some righteously gratified by anything SE puts their way. It all depends on point of view. Me? I have an open mind, and personally don't pick favorites. I judge a game by its own good and bad points, not on its similarities or lack thereof to previous titles (okay, maybe sometimes. Maybe).

IMO, SE has slipped off the pedestal what with many of the latest games they've released, and the fact that they're seemingly focused on 'whoring out' the FF franchise by releasing all this sequels/prequels/spinoffs says a lot. The original creator of FF, Hironobu Sakaguchi, originally intended for all FF games to be stand alone titles. No sequels. No prequels. No spinoffs. Yet now, SE's whored the FFVII name with the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, and did the same thing with FFXII and the whole Ivalice Collection.

I'm not saying that FF was never any good. Far from it, as I recall earlier FF titles I enjoyed and loved. Now though, as I'm older, my tastes in RPG's has matured and I find myself looking back on my RPG collection and thinking to myself: Why?

I don't get as much enjoyment from them now, than when I first got the game and I do prefer Western RPG's more. Eventually FF will die. Not a question of 'IF', it's a question of 'when'. After all, all good things, must come to a end.

Mabye FF will decide to go all Nintendo on our asses and live for ever, however remain extremely unsuccesful

FF are awesome but then the last releases dont get the wow of its users...maybe because we're expecting more since gaming technology is improving as well...

Don't revive threads.

And what are these expectations you speak of?

Meh, until or unless a mod says or does something, I'm not gonna care anymore if threads are revived, no matter how old.

As for the topic, I think this thread could've gone in the FFXIII section, as says (well, said) something in its description about how long you think the series will last. But ah well, here to post I am :D

I think FF lost its older fanbase when the advent of the newer cinematic graphics came about because people who had been on board since the original, or even since IV (like me) couldn't bear the thought of such a drastic change. Ever since VII, I realize FF has drifted more into this realm of 'looks over substance', whereas they all just have a need to be flashy and cool. In older FF games, the graphics (comparatively) sucked. That's coming from me, the No. 1 FF fan of all time! The undisputed, indiscriminate fan of every installment irrevocably and equally! But even I can admit the older graphics sucked horse balls for the most part, but who cares? The whole point was that they conveyed the meaning they were supposed to. You didn't have to see everything 100% perfectly to get the gist; all you needed were little 2D sprites to move from one locale to the next and that alone was enough to satisfy your thirst for adventure. Now, as I do love the graphics of the newer titles, mainly XII because that game has wowed me in every way imaginable, I still can see Square's cinematic aspirations become apparently clear with games like FFIV and FFVI. Even the first three, which were more about solid RPG gameplay rather than a complex storyline, were very epic in many, many ways.

However, I do think that with this younger crowd of 'MUST SHOOT EVRYTHENG IN SITE BECUZ I AM BOARD' types, I highly doubt Square's gonna be able to hold an audience for long with something of actual quality. So as sad as it is for me to even say, Square's really just keeping up with the times, even if they don't last much longer and can't keep up with the pace. Although there are plenty of people who still care very much about a quality game with a quality storyline and characters, such as myself and many others here, there exists this element of people who go only for games that 'look the coolest', and 'have hot chicks in them'. It's a shame, but sex sells, as does violence and flashy graphics. The old days are a thing of the past, so my personal opinion is that even if FF does continue, it's never gonna have that same nostalgic aura that the series up until recently has had.

Okay, I seriously need to STFU until I've actually played FFXIII!

MGM died recently. FF days are counted... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O.O

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't FFXII sell really well and wasn't it praised a lot? Some hardcore FF fans hated it but I'm sure it gained the series some new followers. FFX was awesome. Maybe it was FFXIII being below par.

Initial sales of FFXII may of been good, but where are the numbers stating the amount of returns for XII and even X? I'm willing to bet, that those numbers are high, probably not as high as the returns for FFXIII I admit.

It'll ended when people stop buying the games.


IE: Get smart and start playing more MegaTen games...

Don't revive threads.

I don't think 2 months are that old. :>

It'll ended when people stop buying the games.

That's the thing, a lot of players who enjoy RPG's, consider the Final Fantasy series to be the best of all RPG's made. True, the FF Series has done remarkably well since the first was made for the NES, but how much longer can it honestly last? Consider all the spinoffs of main series FF's which have been made, and while some are good, others were weak and lacklustre.

I think the series is starting to whither away though. I'm into my third playthrough of FFXIII and I'm at chapter 6... and just not motivated to finish it. Hell, I didn't like FFXII or FFX/X-2, but I was still able to finish them.

If the recent addition to this series is lacking (not just for me, but also for others as I've seen numerous copies have been returned to stores they were purchased from, and brand new copies being sold for 10% of it's original price) in almost all of the categories for a game, what's next for FF? FFXIV, from what I've seen, is intriguing enough to give a try... but honestly, don't think for long (specially considering another MMO is coming soon which I'm dying to play).

Final Fantasy's inevitable demise could be postponed by SE making it go uphill instead of downhill. Probably no hope for that right now. =P

If it ever does die, eventually it will return as all great franchises in media do.

After my brief stint with FFXIII (which I no longer have access to, dammit) I can't understand how its flaws could be enough to bring down the series, nor XII or XI, nor any FF to come. SE hasn't disappointed me yet, and I'm sure many others are with me.

After my brief stint with FFXIII (which I no longer have access to, dammit) I can't understand how its flaws could be enough to bring down the series, nor XII or XI, nor any FF to come. SE hasn't disappointed me yet, and I'm sure many others are with me.

Try some other RPG's they've made... Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean The Last Hope and The Last Remnant (True I was given these three again, but I'll be using them as trade ins for games I want when they're released.).

After getting to chapter 6 of FFXIII... just can't get back into playing it further.

The series itself underwent a major shift in target audience I think. Up through Final Fantasy 6, RPGs were sort of a nerd niche among videogames, at least outside of Japan. I can't remember any of my friends as a kid owning one or two RPGs. You either had a bunch of them or none at all. In other words, companies like Squaresoft had a fixed audience. Each new game was being marketed towards the same group of people.

After the booming success of Final Fantasy 7, Square realized they had a much more diverse market to work with, and they got a little experimental. Final Fantasy 8 tried (and failed miserably in my opinion) to mix in more normal, less RPG-stereotype characters, a weak crybaby hero, a sappy love story, things they thought would appeal to non-RPG fans. That got a lot of backlash, but so did 9 when a lot of newer fans were disappointed by the return to a traditional RPG. I think at that point they really lost their touch. The Spirits Within was a landmark failure, and the clearest indication of this attempt to expand their audience. 10, though a vast improvement from 8, still went for this mass market appeal too much to be the really amazing game it could have been. With 11 they went for the MMORPG market, but WoW came along and blew all competition out of the water. From what I know about the games that followed, it seems to me Square has continued to make games that are too commercialized to appeal to oldschool RPG fans and just not good enough to appeal to everyone else. I'm sure their sales are high just because there are more people buying games these days, but I don't think we'll ever see a masterpiece on an SNES level out of them again. Konami really took the edge on that market. (The Suikoden series of the PSX-PS2 is on par with Square's SNES titles and has the same sort of dedicated niche fan base.) That being said, it's been four years since the last series Suikoden game with no new title announced so far, and that makes me think the market for classic RPGs in general is no longer very profitable up against the rising costs of game production.

The Final Fantasy series won't ever end so long as it turns a profit, but I don't think it will ever be worth playing again.

I love FF and despite everything they still deliver great gaming experience. Though I really need to get my hands on XIII. But I first need PS3 for that.

I believe Shad really hit the nail on the head... or however that old expression goes. We're still going to get FF games, but they won't be nearly as good as the good old classics that came before them, unless of course they get lucky somehow. The only way I see FF making a comeback in quality is if SE decides to take its time with developing the game to try and make a good plot for it along with deep character development... Of course, that's just my two cents on the whole ordeal.

I'll always be baffled that people think the series has gone downhill :O

I'll always be baffled that people think the series has gone downhill :O

Really? Mind explaining your claim good sir? I'm curious to hear your reasoning behind it. Not saying it's bad or anything.

The whole suikoden series is quite a cult-following franchise, it has a very small public.

The whole suikoden series is quite a cult-following franchise, it has a very small public.

Yeah. Which other fanbase would be ok with paying more than 100$ for a used games of their fav. series? (Suiko1,2) :)

Returning to the topic. After hearing opinions of countles mmorpg players after playing, how FFXIV disappoints in every aspect possible, company might be into yet another crisis similar to the Spirits Within one. Anybody heared anything positive about that game? Surely, I didn't. But maybe that's just exaggeration.

btw I never understood how anybody could think of FFXII as a downhill in the series. Unless you consider innovations and new ideas a bad thing...

btw I never understood how anybody could think of FFXII as a downhill in the series. Unless you consider innovations and new ideas a bad thing...

I've never even considered FFXII as an FF game.
That game went in a mixture of developers & development hell, the game ended to be something completely different than the original idea.
The gameplay was fantastic, the storyline had a lot of potential but it wasn't exploited.
Anyway to me the change was bringed by VII, the downhill by VIII.
That doesn't mean that it's ruined FOREVER!. It just need some changes here & there.

Anyway I've still have my little Ivalice Compendium if I want to see good storylines (Tactics, XII, Vagrant Story) =D

Really? Mind explaining your claim good sir? I'm curious to hear your reasoning behind it. Not saying it's bad or anything.

Well, simply put, I'm someone who loves each FF equally. It's just odd to think that people view the series as having plummeted over the years, when I've never once been disappointed by any installment.

As someone said on another forum I go to:


FF has great production values, sure, but the *games* are simply not above the industry standard for AAA titles. A big part of it is subjectivity but very few people would argue that FFXII and FFXIII are as good a tandem as FFVI and FFVII, or even FFIX and FFX. The series was rocking the standards of the gaming world 15 years ago, was hitting them 10 years ago, and has been chasing them and getting continually worse since then. The graphics, scale, and budgets have all been revolutionary but Square doesn't have anyone with soul or great creative talent left (aside from the ever divisive Nomura, who still has some elements of his A-game left - TWEWY for example).

Another factor into the equation, is that a lot of people who grew up with the FF series, have outgrown it. While no story in a videogame is ever truly groundbreaking etc, in the earlier games though there was at least an effort put into the game overall (even with the limitations of the consoles they were made for), just the recent games though... feel as if the story wasn't thought out/plotted out/brainstormed properly/thoroughly like earlier installments.

It would seem to be, that SE (or some in power in SE themselves) have the idea that whatever it is they touch is golden and they'll reap the benefits from fans all over the world. I doubt most fans are that whimsical though, as I've said before, recent games SE has made are weaker and lacklustre compared to earlier games SE has done. The creative mindpool isn't there anymore, just recycling older ideas etc (for example, the story in FFXII was more or less taken from Star Wars).

The majority of videogames nowadays take themselves far too seriously, and in some cases instead of playing them for fun, you may feel like you're actually working to play it (if that sort of thing is fun for you, go for it). FFXIII, imo, is flawed. I've tried multiple times to play it/enjoy it... and failed. Each time was a painful experience and if this is a preview showing (along with The Last Remnant, Star Ocean The Last Hope and Infinite Undiscovery) of the direction SE is heading, then FF (and everything else SE has planned) is doomed.

Eventually the FF series will die, not a question of IF, just a question of WHEN... and what legacy will SE leave in it's wake? A gaming company which made advances in it's field brought about by a great game which saved their collective asses in the 1980's (where if Final Fantasy didn't sell, it would've been their FINAL fantasy) or a company which whored out it's biggest success of it's flagship title and spawned weaker titles in it's wake (with some exceptions).

Valid argument CC. Then again, it's not an argument, just a perspective.

However, I do think that with this younger crowd of 'MUST SHOOT EVRYTHENG IN SITE BECUZ I AM BOARD' types, I highly doubt Square's gonna be able to hold an audience for long with something of actual quality. So as sad as it is for me to even say, Square's really just keeping up with the times, even if they don't last much longer and can't keep up with the pace. Although there are plenty of people who still care very much about a quality game with a quality storyline and characters, such as myself and many others here, there exists this element of people who go only for games that 'look the coolest', and 'have hot chicks in them'. It's a shame, but sex sells, as does violence and flashy graphics. The old days are a thing of the past, so my personal opinion is that even if FF does continue, it's never gonna have that same nostalgic aura that the series up until recently has had.

First off I completely agree with this statement.

However I would add to this that if the technological world wasn't continuously changing, then maybe they would have more time to create a whopper of a game. People's demands are so high these days. There's more of the "I want it and I want it now" sentiment going around now. People aren't prepared to wait.

Also one has to think of those who have recently begun playing FF, they probably like what they see as they haven't played the earlier games. My first was CC for heavens sake. I have been lucky enough to get my hands on the earlier titles, but how many younger people are prepared to go through that hassle for "out-dated" games? They probably like them for what they are and are not biased towards the earlier titles.
FF is one of the few RPGs that have any strong points in them anymore (others being Suikoden and the Zelda series). So the younger population will herald it as the greatest thing in video gaming. However older fans will be bitterly disappointed.

As far as graphics and storyline is concerned, people nowadays need a huge sensory input for games to be considered any good, as CC has mentioned before. There is probably too many storyline plots being thought up of at once, so they most likely end up being shoved together into the same game, creating a general mish mash of random plots that confuses the hell out of people who try to make sense out of it. It's a big pity really because this means that so many plots don't get explored and extrapulated on in depth, making otherwise great ideas, seem one dimensional, insipid and insubstantial. There are also so many messages and lessons that get lost due to this confusion.

This may or may not be known, but SE never intended the FF VII compilation to be created in the first place. After FF VII they were prepared to move on, however with the rise in demand from fans, they decided that it was best to meet these demands so that later they could continue with another title. The fans weren't appeased until after ACC though, which ended pissing off people who wanted different games to be created. The FF VII compilation did somehow stagnate the creation of new titles, which meant that more people began to think that the FF series was deterriorating. At the time though, creating the FF VII compilation did sem to make good business sense as there was a huge demand and market for them. I think that SE tried to counter the bad blood between FF VII fans and haters by making Dissidia. Since I haven't seen that much about the game here or indeed in other places I would surmise that it didn't completely work. Anyway there is still bad blood between the two groups.

As for me, I am pretty open too. I have enjoyed all the FF games I have played so far. There are indeed good points and bad points but on the whole I think they are worth playing. Personal prefrence only, not trying to convert anyone.

Between what I've mentioned and what has been said before I can't think of anything else to say really except that we'll just have to wait and see what the next installment is like and what happens next to the FF franchise. I think that it is hard to say if/ when it will die. Eventually it must, as Death's Head said earlier, "all good things must come to an end".

To me, the franchise died when Squaresoft became Square-enix.

To me, the franchise died when Squaresoft became Square-enix.

Mostly truth, partially truth. Though it is a quality post.

To me, the franchise died when Squaresoft became Square-enix.

I all depends really. Squaresoft was becoming bankrupt at the time so the merger was a real lifesaver for some (employees of SS that is)
Also if SS was on the brink of bankruptcy then how well was their franchise selling in the first place? Clearly something was going wrong.
Enix couldn't have taken over SS without having a legitimate reason and lifeline in which to seal the merger with.

I'm not saying that SE is better than SS, it's just something to keep in mind.

im hopin the franchise never dies. square-enix always has made good final fantasy games. didnt really like final fantasy iii or v, though. others were great. havent played xi or xiii yet, though.

I all depends really. Squaresoft was becoming bankrupt at the time so the merger was a real lifesaver for some (employees of SS that is)
Also if SS was on the brink of bankruptcy then how well was their franchise selling in the first place? Clearly something was going wrong.
Enix couldn't have taken over SS without having a legitimate reason and lifeline in which to seal the merger with.

I'm not saying that SE is better than SS, it's just something to keep in mind.

Final Fantasy was what saved SS's collective asses back in the 1980's. As Hironobu Sakaguchi quipped at the time, if it didn't succeed it would be Square's Final Fantasy. Now though, the series has lost a lot of it's appeal for older fans of the series. It all comes down to the individual in question though, but still... FF will eventually end, though whether it ends on a high note or fades into obscurity, only time will tell.


im hopin the franchise never dies. square-enix always has made good final fantasy games. didnt really like final fantasy iii or v, though. others were great. havent played xi or xiii yet, though.

Never say never.

Never say never.

Unless you're sayin', "I hope the franchise never dies." ;)

IMO, the franchise is dead... just doesn't know it.

LIES! HERESY! This man is badgering the witness!

u sound like zalmo from final fantasy tactics...lol

Ahh, Final Fantasy Tactics. . . . *Relapses into a catatonic stupor while recollecting bits and pieces of my infinite fond memories of that amazing game. . . .* Thanks, aces. Thanks a lot! Now I'm craving my PSP even more, if not solely for Tactics alone now! Hmph! Not that that's a bad thing of course ;)

lol yw. i like the ps1 version better cause its faster durin the battles and the music was better, but the psp version was good too.

lol yw. i like the ps1 version better cause its faster durin the battles and the music was better, but the psp version was good too.

Yeah the battles on PSP are buggy, the thing that I liked on the PSP is the Localization. The dusty & ancient english type of dialogs are certainly better than the bastard engrish of the PS1.