I haven't played FFXIII for well over a week now. I just can't seem to find the motivation to play it. I think the praise I gave it initially was just excitement at finally having it. There are of course good things about it, particulalry the graphics. However things like the linearity which didn't bother me at first just make me frustrated now. No towns, no going back to other places, one corridor-esque path all the time, the game might as well say "LEVEL COMPLETE" at the end of every chapter. The battle system while fast and intuitive is completely bastardised by the auto-win button, you all know what I'm talking about. Every battle ends up being a mini-game, mashing the x-button for 90% and changing classes the other 10%. There is no skill in the battle system at all, no strategy. The story which originally I held as it's best achievment isn't actually that amazing. I think of the games which I feel have the best stories (VIII, IX and X) and I realise that they all start with a sense of normality. So when shit hits the fan we experience it with the characters, we feel part of it. With XIII it's more like watching a movie, we don't feel like part of the story. Shit is already happening and we are just told about it. It doesn't work.

Since VII, FF Crossed the line, VIII story is pure shit from beginning to end, IX was worth 2 characters & story goes down the toilet starting disc 3, I didn't played X, but by watching some playthoughs it looked like a game of pure blatant disturbing fan service. XI was online, so practially it wasn't there & I liked XII, but I've never considered it as an FF game so no big deal, I watched many trailers of XIII and it looked like a circus of flashing lights, the same as X but HD...
But in the regular fandom, in XII is where people really felt that it crossed the line, because somehow they knew that it won't be the same from that point, the battle system of XII was something not many people received it with open hands.
I didn't played XIII yet, but If I'll play it, it will be because it has the name on it, not because it really appeals to me.
Everyone describes XIII as arcade platformer game rather than an RPG, is just weird... xD

If you don't have the motivation, don't worry it should come again, of course if you don't have anything better to play.

I recommend playing X. The story is fantastic. Too bad they ruined the poetically tragic ending with X-2 but hey....

VIII, aside from the frankly idiotic battle system and some cheesy moments was a damn good game. I really connected with the characters and I loved the story.

IX, is the best game ever made, 'nuff said.

XII, best battle system of the series but it is let down by lacklustre characters and a non-existent story. Side-quests are awesome though.

XIII, rubbish battle system, okay story, okay characters

most Final Fantasy Games have faults but usually they have some amazing features that counterbalance the rubbishness. XII with it's battle system is an example.

XIII has virtually nothing I'm afraid. It is a good game but it isn't comparable to other Final Fantasy games in terms of quality. If it was called Tales of Final Fantasy XIII or Star Ocean Final Fantasy XIII then I would be more forgiveable but I have come to expect quality...

I recommend playing X. The story is fantastic. Too bad they ruined the poetically tragic ending with X-2 but hey....

VIII, aside from the frankly idiotic battle system and some cheesy moments was a damn good game. I really connected with the characters and I loved the story.

IX, is the best game ever made, 'nuff said.

XII, best battle system of the series but it is let down by lacklustre characters and a non-existent story. Side-quests are awesome though.

XIII, rubbish battle system, okay story, okay characters


XIII has virtually nothing I'm afraid. It is a good game but it isn't comparable to other Final Fantasy games in terms of quality.

You overestimate FF quality...

VIII has frankly idiotic battle system at concept, in functionality it could have worked better.

IX best game ever? You wish... The nearest thing as a best game ever was the first MGS, but it isn't because there's no such thing.

X I don't care about it the characters are too annoying to see the story.

XII lack-lustre characters & no storyline? you didn't catched where is it's essence...

I think you care a lot about the characters more than the story itself & I'll say it again, You overestimate FF Quality.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

XII had a very limited story that is more or less a fact. Probably 75% less cutscenes etc. throughout the game than usual FF's

I care for story more than characters but they are the top two necessities for an RPG.

In my opinion FFIX is the greatest game ever made, don't try and tell me I'm wrong when it is an impossibilty.

Since VII, FF Crossed the line, VIII story is pure shit from beginning to end, IX was worth 2 characters & story goes down the toilet starting disc 3, I didn't played X, but by watching some playthoughs it looked like a game of pure blatant disturbing fan service. XI was online, so practially it wasn't there & I liked XII, but I've never considered it as an FF game so no big deal

So you're complaining about the stories in FFVIII/IX and then praising FFXII?

What?

But no, the stories in FFVIII and IX were pretty good! FFVIII was probably my favourite FF up until the orphanage, which was really pretty dumb. FFIX is my favourite Final Fantasy, though. It easily has the best cast of characters and I fail to see anything wrong with the story.

FFX is probably my second favourite. It has a great story and battle system, fun sidequests and minigames (I liked Blitzball a lot) and a pretty awesome cast of characters.

As for FFXIII, I wrote my thoughts here (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=1452445&postcount=34).

It appears to be that I'm going to get ganged by some IX fans...

Look take a closer look, I've said that I've never considered XII as an FF game. I liked the storyline because it has a background, flavor & extra stuff besides about what we see in the cutscenes, the characters have motivation and a reason to do what they do except for Penelo & Fran, many of the characters are there because of something.
To understand some other things about XII you have to dig the information on FFT & Vagrant Story, that's mainly because I've never considered it as a main FF game & probably that's the reason many people can't find where the essence of the storyline is.
I don't care if anyone loves or hates XII, I like it because I have my reasons & I can rant all I want about V/VI(I actually like it a lot but there were some things that pissed me of)/VIII/IX or any other game okay?.... Moving on

VIII story good? I'll tell you my thoughts on VIII storyline with a quoting a comment from another person.

"The whole game takes place in a fictional world that's being written by a twenty two year-old virgin. It's his expression of all his angst over what he feels are his lost teenage years. After disc one he actually gets a girlfriend and gets laid and at that point he realizes what a whiny load of bullshit it was and he decides to kill off his character that once represented himself. A little later on he gets a new computer and the old one is handed down to his little thirteen year old brother who finds the story and decides to continue it on from that point."

IX best cast of characters... I said that this game was worth two characters, those are Vivi & Beatrix, the rest of the cast is filler or stupid annoying personalities with no real reason to soak them. If you tell me best cast of characters IV or VI I could believe you, but the cast of characters of IX is not good. The storyline as I said goes down the toilet at Disc 3 with all the bull shit of going to the 3 points of the planet. The gameplay is horrible one of the worse things in any RPG & Easily the worst in any FF game.

Fuck Final Fantasy IX...

Anyway, this thread was about Harkus reasons to be not motivated on keep on playing XIII, I wanted to add what I thought about it & why I'm not motivated in even try the game.

It appears to be that I'm going to get ganged by some IX fans...

Don't try and discredit me just yet.


"The whole game takes place in a fictional world that's being written by a twenty two year-old virgin. It's his expression of all his angst over what he feels are his lost teenage years. After disc one he actually gets a girlfriend and gets laid and at that point he realizes what a whiny load of bullshit it was and he decides to kill off his character that once represented himself. A little later on he gets a new computer and the old one is handed down to his little thirteen year old brother who finds the story and decides to continue it on from that point."

Has this guy ever played FFVIII? Have you for that matter? Hell, the same kind of things get written for everything, that doesn't mean they should be used as evidence.


the rest of the cast is filler

Fail


The gameplay is horrible one of the worse things in any RPG & Easily the worst in any FF game.

I honestly don't see it that different to any other FF game that is turn based.

Pokemon Heart Gold is out and it is fantastic so I am currently playing that. Afterwards I may well get back to FFXIII but I am dissapointed with it.

I recommend playing X. The story is fantastic. Too bad they ruined the poetically tragic ending with X-2 but hey....

VIII, aside from the frankly idiotic battle system and some cheesy moments was a damn good game. I really connected with the characters and I loved the story.

IX, is the best game ever made, 'nuff said.

XII, best battle system of the series but it is let down by lacklustre characters and a non-existent story. Side-quests are awesome though.

XIII, rubbish battle system, okay story, okay characters

most Final Fantasy Games have faults but usually they have some amazing features that counterbalance the rubbishness. XII with it's battle system is an example.

XIII has virtually nothing I'm afraid. It is a good game but it isn't comparable to other Final Fantasy games in terms of quality. If it was called Tales of Final Fantasy XIII or Star Ocean Final Fantasy XIII then I would be more forgiveable but I have come to expect quality...

I expect way more out of Tales than Final Fantasy. For good fucking reason. Ever played Tales of the Abyss? Many people start Tales games and then drop them during the buildup phase, something every Tales game has, a part with some rather small conflict that seems insignificant to get the characters out of their comfort zones and then puts something upon them before it is too late for them to be like "yeh well im just an average citizen, right?"

If you get past that part you're in for a treat.

I've only played one Tales of Game and I loved it (Tales of Eternia) I was kidding in that part of my post.

Look take a closer look, I've said that I've never considered XII as an FF game.
Irrelevant. It still has a story that's barely there and dull characters tacked on because the developers felt the actual main charachter (Basch) wouldn't go well with fangirls. The game also went through several development teams and an incredibly long development time. The game was a mess. I don't care if you like it, it's just insane to ridicule the story of whatever game and then praise FFXII.

I understand you like the world - I do too - but I really didn't feel like it was fleshed out in FFXII anymore than it was in other Ivalice games. Also, if prior knowledge of the world/lore is required to appreciate what is done in FFXII, it isn't very good.


I liked the storyline because it has a background, flavor & extra stuff besides about what we see in the cutscenes, the characters have motivation and a reason to do what they do except for Penelo & Fran, many of the characters are there because of something.
This sounds like every Final Fantasy game.


VIII story good? I'll tell you my thoughts on VIII storyline with a quoting a comment from another person.

"The whole game takes place in a fictional world that's being written by a twenty two year-old virgin. It's his expression of all his angst over what he feels are his lost teenage years. After disc one he actually gets a girlfriend and gets laid and at that point he realizes what a whiny load of bullshit it was and he decides to kill off his character that once represented himself. A little later on he gets a new computer and the old one is handed down to his little thirteen year old brother who finds the story and decides to continue it on from that point."
If you want to play the game of extreme generalisation of plotlines, by the way, you can make any game's story sound like shit. However, this generalisation doesn't sound anything like FFVIII. Did you ever play the game?


IX best cast of characters... I said that this game was worth two characters, those are Vivi & Beatrix, the rest of the cast is filler or stupid annoying personalities with no real reason to soak them. If you tell me best cast of characters IV or VI I could believe you, but the cast of characters of IX is not good.
Really? To me, many of the members in VI seem like filler. The only bad character in IX is Amarant, in my opinion, but he's no worse than Vincent.


The storyline as I said goes down the toilet at Disc 3 with all the bull shit of going to the 3 points of the planet.
This isn't really a very good reason to say the story goes down the toilet.


The gameplay is horrible one of the worse things in any RPG & Easily the worst in any FF game.
I prefer IX's system over VII's. VIII probably has my favourite system, since I adore abusing it.


I expect way more out of Tales than Final Fantasy.
Why would you go and do a silly thing like that?

Has this guy ever played FFVIII? Have you for that matter? Hell, the same kind of things get written for everything, that doesn't mean they should be used as evidence.

As a matter of fact I've finished VIII more than 15 times for sure, because of it's addicting gameplay and I can tell you this about the storyline.
Laguna's dreams are just pointless, they don't explain nothing except for a few things that aren't extremely relevant.
Squall changes personality disc through disc & he just falls in love of Rinoa because the writters dictates it.
The storyline don't make sense because they've can put a bullet in the head of ellone & forget about Ultimecia just destroy the Machine that emulates the powers of ellone & also forget about ultimecia. Other thing Ultimecia wants to compress time & fuck up everything, why? I don't know it just fun maybe.
But what is the solution to the heroes to fight against evil, LET ULTIMECIA COMPRESS TIME & THE POWER OF LOVE & FRIENDSHIP WILL SAVE THE TIME CONITNIUM....Lame & Lazy
The parade, the orphanage...
Do I really have to go through this in the 4 CD's?...



Fail
Quina & Amarant need a conversation with you. I've said filler or annoying personalities.




I honestly don't see it that different to any other FF game that is turn based.

Fail

***Possible Spoiler Alerts***


Okay, looks like some of you guys are taking this discussion to heart =P . This is why I don't have a life.

Okay, I like FFXIII. Yes, I can admit that it's disappointing. Yes, I can admit that it's VERY linear. But its storyline has some more substance to it. This might be a game that I have to play twice (like I've needed to with FFXII) in order to make a final say on it...

Anyways; I think that if the game wasn't so linear, it would be more bearable. Starting with the map-markers that definitely give away when an event is about to happen.

Now, its linearity is explained by the story and so are the lack of shops. They are indeed fugitives, and they do have to run and hide somewhere so they can't stop and shop around (except maybe in Nautilus they could have). I have no problem with the linearity since it makes sense. My problems with FFXIII's linearity rises when we get to chapter 11.

Chapter 11 Spoilers

Now I beat Barthandelus at the end of chapter 11 just to get me all that new crystarium; after that, it is basically a free roam on Pulse.

On Pulse, all you can really do is those Cieth Stone missions (which are the side quests) and grind. Pulse feels large but it's very small.. Like there are only a couple of zones that branch off of Pulse. And since it's the only free-roam zone that we're allowed at this time (which is also explained by the story), it feels like a rip-off. I was expecting more environments in Pulse, for example I wanted to travel through a desert. In conclusion: Pulse is way too small to be the only free roam zone available to the player. I feel that Pulse should have been as large as the world-map was from FFVIII; either that or the player should be free to travel to/from Pulse and Cocoon.

In regards to having motivation to play the game, good luck! Sometimes I get really strong urges to play certain games as well; sometimes I suddenly get tired of playing certain games too. There's really no advice I can give you here. When the time is right, the time is right I guess =P .

Laguna's dreams are just pointless, they don't explain nothing except for a few things that aren't extremely relevant.
Well, they do kind of serve a purpose. They're also probably the most fun parts of the game. I also like the battle theme a lot (FF8 has my favourite OST from the series)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2vpqd9gKXk


Squall changes personality disc through disc & he just falls in love of Rinoa because the writters dictates it.
Yes, I have a problem with how their relationship was handled too. It didn't really come out of nowhere, since it was always pretty obvious they'd hook up eventually. His sudden change of personality in the shuttle with Eyes on Me playing was pretty wonky. I don't think his personality changed from disc to disc though.


The storyline don't make sense because they've can put a bullet in the head of ellone & forget about Ultimecia just destroy the Machine that emulates the powers of ellone & also forget about ultimecia. Other thing Ultimecia wants to compress time & fuck up everything, why? I don't know it just fun maybe.
I don't think that's really what it is like at all. As for Ultimecia, she is
Rinoa and I am pretty sure the time compression was just to be reunited with Squall or something. I have a problem with Square pretty much avoiding any obvious hints at RINOA = ULTIMECIA, but there's a fair bit of evidence that proves it to be true.


But what is the solution to the heroes to fight against evil, LET ULTIMECIA COMPRESS TIME & THE POWER OF LOVE & FRIENDSHIP WILL SAVE THE TIME CONITNIUM....Lame & Lazy
Eh, the story kind of went to poop after the Orphanage. It was deus ex machina, one after the other. Still, the ending wasn't quite that simple. I'm sure if we were to generalise the end of FFVII it would sound just as silly.


The parade, the orphanage...
Orphanage was a problem. Parade was pretty cool, I thought.

Irrelevant. It still has a story that's barely there and dull characters tacked on because the developers felt the actual main charachter (Basch) wouldn't go well with fangirls. The game also went through several development teams and an incredibly long development time. The game was a mess. I don't care if you like it, it's just insane to ridicule the story of whatever game and then praise FFXII.

I understand you like the world - I do too - but I really didn't feel like it was fleshed out in FFXII anymore than it was in other Ivalice games. Also, if prior knowledge of the world/lore is required to appreciate what is done in FFXII, it isn't very good.

Yes it is irrelevant & it's also insane what I did, but I like it that way.
I'll say it again, I don't care about what people think about XII.



This sounds like every Final Fantasy game.

There isn't that much in any regular FF



If you want to play the game of extreme generalisation of plotlines, by the way, you can make any game's story sound like shit. However, this generalisation doesn't sound anything like FFVIII. Did you ever play the game?
I've finished it more than 15 times



Really? To me, many of the members in VI seem like filler. The only bad character in IX is Amarant, in my opinion, but he's no worse than Vincent.
In VI every character except for the gorilla, tarzan & the mimic, the characters are have interesting personalities & involving storylines.
Vincent worse than Amarant? Arguable, I don't like Vincent, but at least his backstory is nice.



This isn't really a very good reason to say the story goes down the toilet.

You're right, but I don't really care & I won't make a long post about it, Kuja is a Nietzche Wannabe I Necron is the god of evil, IV had a similar storyline but with a cool cast of characters & nailed the formula.



VIII probably has my favourite system, since I adore abusing it.
I like to abuse too VIII holes on the System, but it's not my fauvorite.




Why would you go and do a silly thing like that?

I've played Tales of Phantasia only, didn't finished it but it's a fine fun & involving game, My fucking PC isn't letting me to finish it.



I don't think that's really what it is like at all. As for Ultimecia, she is
Rinoa and I am pretty sure the time compression was just to be reunited with Squall or something. I have a problem with Square pretty much avoiding any obvious hints at RINOA = ULTIMECIA, but there's a fair bit of evidence that proves it to be true.

Orphanage was a problem. Parade was pretty cool, I thought.

Tell me Why Ultimecia is Rinoa? I know that there's some hints but they're not conclusive to me.

Parade was stupid, just that, people should've runned away instead of keep clapping.

http://www.squareinsider.com/forums/topic/18353-the-rinoaultimecia-theory/

The fact that her castle is situated where her and Squall promised to reunite is evidence enough for me. There's also probably a far better written page on the theory elsewhere on the internet.

From what I understand, Square has said Rinoa is not Ultimecia. I've also read that it was originally their plan to make them the same person, but avoided it in the end because they felt it went against the central themes of the game and would upset players. I think the problem is they didn't rewrite it all and just decided to remove bits and pieces pointing directly to the fact. This is probably why the ending, as it is now, is an illogical mess. I agree that everything after the orphanage (not necessarily because of the orphanage) is pretty shit.


In VI every character except for the gorilla, tarzan & the mimic, the characters are have interesting personalities & involving storylines.
It's the same way in IX, imo, except for Amarant. I know you (and many others) dislike Quina, but I have no problems with... it.

Ultimecia=Rinoa is just laughable...

Anyway, way to much off-topic.

Cool argument, bro! You are the master of building straw men.

Cool argument, bro! You are the master of building straw men.

=D

Why would you go and do a silly thing like that?

Because they're pretty much the epitome of RPGs as it stands right now.

Because they're pretty much the epitome of RPGs as it stands right now.
Not even close.

They're regarded as pretty low tier, actually.

I can assure you once you get to about chapter 8 or 9 you'll find yourself strategizing more and more. The bosses and even some of the monsters will have you switching between paradigms. Also, the story does get much, MUCH better.

I'm on chapter 9 now. In battles I find myself mashing the X button constantly with my head in my hands trying not to fall asleep and then occasionally changing paradigms. There should be more to the strategy than changing classes. In every other FF it felt like every turn counted and mattered, it is the complete opposite in XIII, I will go as far as to say that I preferred VIII's battle system over it. Also there is the WIN command as the default attack, which genius thought that was a good idea?

The graphics at the moment are the games best redeeming feature however graphics don't make a game and despite the flashiness of it, it doesn't have the charm of the FF games pre-PS2 era. FFVII has atrocious graphics but it has something that makes it appealing and you warm to it. FFXIII doesn't.


I've finished it more than 15 times

and you still think that guys quote is accurate?


the characters are have interesting personalities & involving storylines.

Pretty much all the FFVI cast are two-dimensional stereotypes. Kefka is nothing more than an empty shell, best villain ever? Dream on. Garland was deeper than him.


Laguna's dreams are just pointless, they don't explain nothing except for a few things that aren't extremely relevant.

You've played it 15 times and still don't get it?

I felt FFXIII's art direction was very... muddled. Backgrounds/scenery look like a big mess to me.

As for the game getting harder in later chapters - it doesn't. Battles do get longer, though.

As for the story getting better - no.

Edit: FFS was lagging really bad and somehow I double posted. I didn't even press Post Quick Reply twice.

and you still think that guys quote is accurate?
Yes




Pretty much all the FFVI cast are two-dimensional stereotypes. Kefka is nothing more than an empty shell, best villain ever? Dream on. Garland was deeper than him.

I've forgot kefka xD, yeah that villain is pure bullshit & he was my main complain about VI, but I was refering to the other characters such as Cyan, Celes, Locke, Setzer, Edgar, Sabin & Terra.

But no, the stories in FFVIII and IX were pretty good! FFVIII was probably my favourite FF up until the orphanage, which was really pretty dumb. FFIX is my favourite Final Fantasy, though. It easily has the best cast of characters and I fail to see anything wrong with the story.


"Oh wait guys we all grew up together?"
"Oh yeah!!!, must be dem GFs:notgood:"
(Irvine)"I remembered, just didn't figure it'd be something important to share after traveling together for like months, lol."

Even at the age of 8 years old I had to hard reset my game because I thought I missed something... I didn't. I think the game was getting lengthy and they were just like, "wrap it up, we have to put the Lunatic Pandora and Ultimecia's castle in".

I've said several times over the orphanage is retarded. You should read.

I wasn't being contrary.

Not even close.

They're regarded as pretty low tier, actually.

I love when people make comments about what the general public thinks without any sort of proof? Who says most people think tales games are low tier? /v/ or something?

I hope this isn't the "I've only heard bad things so I won't try it" attitude. Ever played far into one of the series' better games?

but didn't you just do that calling them the "epitome" of RPGs, mr kettle?

Okay so then don't play it until you feel better, why make a thread about it?

I love when people make comments about what the general public thinks without any sort of proof? Who says most people think tales games are low tier? /v/ or something?

I hope this isn't the "I've only heard bad things so I won't try it" attitude. Ever played far into one of the series' better games?

/v/
critics
people in general
me

They definitely aren't the epitome of RPGs. I've tried several of the games and they aren't very good. I'm not sure any of the games in the series have managed a score above 80 on Metacritic, except Symphonia.

Now let's pull apart your statement:

"I love when people make comments about what the general public thinks without any sort of proof?"
You just called the series the epitome of jRPGs without any sort of "proof." This has already been pointed out, though.

"I hope this isn't the "I've only heard bad things so I won't try it" attitude."
Kind of like how you refuse to play Mass Effect because it "looks like shit."


Okay so then don't play it until you feel better, why make a thread about it?
This thread is basically criticising the game and allowing for people to discuss the criticisms. That's what a forum is for. The thread got derail though because some jerk said the best game ever isn't very good.

/v/
critics
people in general
me

They definitely aren't the epitome of RPGs. I've tried several of the games and they aren't very good. I'm not sure any of the games in the series have managed a score above 80 on Metacritic, except Symphonia.

Now let's pull apart your statement:

"I love when people make comments about what the general public thinks without any sort of proof?"
You just called the series the epitome of jRPGs without any sort of "proof." This has already been pointed out, though.

"I hope this isn't the "I've only heard bad things so I won't try it" attitude."
Kind of like how you refuse to play Mass Effect because it "looks like shit."


This thread is basically criticising the game and allowing for people to discuss the criticisms. That's what a forum is for. The thread got derail though because some jerk said the best game ever isn't very good.

I said that they were the epitome, a matter of opinion, speaking for myself. You said that the general public thought that, speaking for others. Whether you're correct or not, do you see that difference? If you are going to speak for others you should probably try to show where communities are saying these things.

In addition, I've said that Mass Effect looks like crap, a matter of opinion, that implies theres a chance it is not, because I haven't experienced it. You however basically said Tales straight-up sucked, and I wanted to confirm you tried it.

As for Metacritic:

I will give you that both Tales of Vesperia and Tales of the Abyss, one of the better ones in my opinion scored a 79 and 78 for whatever reason, almost making me wonder if there's a reason you picked 80... but Tales of Eternia has a solid 82. You also have to remember that the public opinion varies on every matter. There will be people that think things are good and people that think things are bad, and while metacritic is certainly a good measure because of the way it averages many opinions of notable reviewers, everyone looks for different things in an RPG and I personally feel that the Tales series is one of the best around for developing attachments between the player and the characters and their development. They also often have stories with depth on par with many RPGs but are often overlooked because the game tries to avoid taking itself too seriously. Some gamers find really serious games tiresome and some gamers find games with a little comic relief and some occasional breaks of tension frivolous. It all depends on what you're looking for going in. Additionally, the series has very immersive combat, although occasionally not that challenging... As somebody that gets bored with turn based RPGs I figure you can see why I'd go around saying Tales is pretty much the best.

I don't like to play the "it is just opinion card" because it looks like I'm just avoiding the argument at hand but that's kinda how it is with everything :D

I said that they were the epitome, a matter of opinion, speaking for myself. You said that the general public thought that, speaking for others. Whether you're correct or not, do you see that difference? If you are going to speak for others you should probably try to show where communities are saying these things.
Great, so it's your opinion that it's the best jRPG series. Your original post certainly did not imply it was simply your opinion.


In addition, I've said that Mass Effect looks like crap, a matter of opinion, that implies theres a chance it is not, because I haven't experienced it. You however basically said Tales straight-up sucked, and I wanted to confirm you tried it.
I'm not really sure what difference between a gaming "sucking" and "looking like crap" is. If I hadn't played the games (I have) and said the games sucked, I would have only said the same thing you did regarding Mass Effect.

Looking like crap indicates that I haven't played it and that I get a feeling I would dislike it if I played it. Saying it actually sucks should imply that I've tried it, but I try to stray away from that unless I feel strongly about it, because saying it sucks speaks more for its actual quality rather than my opinion about it.

So, I might have messed up the post where I said they were the epitome, but we've corrected that issue. What's the point now?

Looking like crap or not, the Mass Effect series is the defining RPG series of the current gen.

You should at least give it a try before making any half-assed comments about it.


And the Tales of series is an utter yawn-fest. Games are released every 6 months (barely exaggerating) with hardly ever any improvements over the previous one.

And the plots... Oh my, how clich� and poorly written are they.

And what if I said that FFVII was the worst game ever made?
Generic Story, Generic Gameplay, Kill a Whore because it makes good cimematics, Give a kid who never grew up a huge fucking sword and Freudian/Messiah complexes and promote ladyboyism?
Its my opinion but it doesn't change the fact that millions of others played and enjoyed it.
Who cares about 'Tales of' or 'Mass Effect' being the best/worst game anyway? I Fucking don't!!!!

Well if you said that you would be starting a very long and bloody flame war, not likely to end until a moderator closed the thread! It would be a very badddddd thing to say

And what if I said that FFVII was the worst game ever made?
Generic Story, Generic Gameplay, Kill a Whore because it makes good cimematics, Give a kid who never grew up a huge fucking sword and Freudian/Messiah complexes and promote ladyboyism?
Its my opinion but it doesn't change the fact that millions of others played and enjoyed it.
Who cares about 'Tales of' or 'Mass Effect' being the best/worst game anyway? I Fucking don't!!!!


Here, an example of ladyboyism. You act like a crazy girl in her periods. ;)

And what if I said that FFVII was the worst game ever made?
Generic Story, Generic Gameplay, Kill a Whore because it makes good cimematics, Give a kid who never grew up a huge fucking sword and Freudian/Messiah complexes and promote ladyboyism?
Its my opinion but it doesn't change the fact that millions of others played and enjoyed it.
Who cares about 'Tales of' or 'Mass Effect' being the best/worst game anyway? I Fucking don't!!!!

Well if you said it had a generic story and gameplay you'd be wrong, for a start. I'm not really sure what you're talking about when you say, "Kill a Whore because it makes good cimematics" but I imagine you mean Aerith. I'm afraid I must tell you Aerith is neither a whore nor is her death just a way to show off a FMV. With the "never grew up" statement you are once again just pulling things out of your rear-end, throwing it at a wall and hoping it sticks. Cloud is, by the way, pretty far from a "ladyboy" (which I'm sure you mean is synonymous with EMO or as the antithesis of a burly lumberjack) excluding the time he dresses as a lady (which is awesome).

His sword is excessively large though, yes.

As for the Tales and Mass Effect argument, I'm not sure what you mean. You're not really supposed to care. I mean, it ended pretty quick. I'm also not sure how this is relevant to your rant about FFVII.

Well if you said it had a generic story and gameplay you'd be wrong, for a start. I'm not really sure what you're talking about when you say, "Kill a Whore because it makes good cimematics" but I imagine you mean Aerith. I'm afraid I must tell you Aerith is neither a whore nor is her death just a way to show off a FMV. With the "never grew up" statement you are once again just pulling things out of your rear-end, throwing it at a wall and hoping it sticks. Cloud is, by the way, pretty far from a "ladyboy" (which I'm sure you mean is synonymous with EMO or as the antithesis of a burly lumberjack) excluding the time he dresses as a lady (which is awesome).

His sword is excessively large though, yes.

As for the Tales and Mass Effect argument, I'm not sure what you mean. You're not really supposed to care. I mean, it ended pretty quick. I'm also not sure how this is relevant to your rant about FFVII.

QFT mang

VIII, aside from the frankly idiotic battle system and some cheesy moments was a damn good game. I really connected with the characters and I loved the story.


This.

I'm not sure what most of you are ranting about now, but FF8 was one of my favorite games of all time and probably always will be.

Amazing

:popcorn:

At least endure it untill Chapter 11, it changes a lot then

The game is basically walking through hallways *yawn*

I may give FFXIII another go one day... when I don't have anything else important to do. Like living.

I may give FFXIII another go one day... when I don't have anything else important to do. Like living.

It's not like what you said applies to every videogames. :rolleyes:

ok.

It's not like what you said applies to every videogames. :rolleyes:

I know... just at this point in time I honestly found nothing enjoyable in FFXIII to warrant my continued playthrough of it at this time. I know people say from chapter 11 it 'really picks up', but considering there's only 13 chapters in this game, why play through the entire boring thing, just to get to the 'good stuff' near the end of the game, where you can't really get to enjoy it?

It's missing a lot of things from older FF's as well (towns, world map, etc), and basically to me, just meandering down one tunnel after another.

As I've said before (in other threads), SE is losing it's touch with games as recent titles can attest to : The Last Remnant, Inifinite Undiscovery and Star Ocean: The Last Hope.

JRPG's don't entertain me anymore, most probably because I'm older now and my tastes in games has matured. I'll just stick to WRPG's (Western RPG's) from now on.

I agree. SE is definately losing the plot. SE's encounters on the next gen have been somewhat abysmal. The only one I kinda enjoyed was Last Remnant and that was at a push. Its easy to put it down to us, nowadays the gamer is perhaps more fussy but I don't think that's the real reason. In my case I blame online gaming and re-playability, what a great word, if it is a word. I can't bring myself to play games like FFXIII that just don't hold my attention for long enough. I haven't replayed a game in my somewhat large collection in a long long time. Are games as good as they used to be? No, I don't think so really.

To be fair, I think when you're younger, you'll play anything and like it.

To be fair, I think when you're younger, you'll play anything and like it.

I dunno about that, my big brother used to play his fave game "beat the crap outta little brother." I didn't like that much.

To be fair, I think when you're younger, you'll play anything and like it.

True, when I was younger I used to play MineStorm non stop on my Vectrex. Now, tried to play it and got bored real quick. Same with my PSX, PS2 and other gaming consoles I own. Getting older matures your tastes in games, and games I used to love I know wonder why I loved them.

Nowadays, I draw upon my previous experience with RPG's (both JRPG's and WRPG's), made by different companies, and in mind, SE isn't as good as they used to be. The Last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean The Last Hope and Final Fantasy XIII are lacklustre and mediocre titles imo. I've played all of them... and disliked them all.

In my case I blame online gaming and re-playability, what a great word, if it is a word.

Totally agree...


To be fair, I think when you're younger, you'll play anything and like it.

Partially, I'm more critical than before, but the old games that I used to like when I was a child, I still like them to play.

I've been giving it some thought, and just out of curiosity . . . does anyone else think it might be possible that the majority of the disappointment comes simply from the name it has to live up to? I mean, Final Fantasy isn't just any series. It's been a benchmark in gaming since the very first title's initial release. And I myself am a firm lover of every single game in the series equally, only now to finally find some disappointment in XIII due to its linearity. But when I take a second to think on it further, I find myself recalling a fierce enjoyment for other gaming titles such as Dead Space, Resident Evil 4 (and, just to be nice, 5), Doom 3, Crisis Core (yes, it's just a spinoff title, but so what?), Quake 4, and a score of others I can't be bothered to remember at this time. I realize most of what I mentioned are first-person shooters, which generally tend to be more straightforward, but I don't hear any of these complaints with regards to these such games. I suppose it all just boils down to the fact that there's a time and a place for everything, as I've stated before. However, sometimes there can be exceptions to this, if you keep your mind open to a degree.

Some things I've seen (and read) that I liked about the game:

– Fun battle system. And hey, sometimes all a game really needs to be is fun, right?
– Great graphics. Okay, yea, even I'm a sucker for next-gen graphics. I can admit it.
– Interesting character designs (as always).
– Very little music I've heard from it yet, but what I've heard so far, I've liked.
– What looks to be the ability to jump while on the out-of-battle terrain? I dunno, looked kinda cool. Different for an RPG.

For the most part I'm seeing a game that bears a resemblance to both FFX and Crisis Core, and I enjoy both, so I can't complain too much. As for the story . . . I don't know a thing about it besides 'you're on the run', so I can't make any judgments on its part.

EDIT: No, I've still yet to play it. So anything I say is based solely upon my own diagnosis of what I've heard and read.

The fact that the story doesn't pick up until Chapter 11 in a 13 chapter game says volumes imo.

Yes, that's one of my turnoffs about it surely :O I'm definitely gonna have to agree that the story must be pretty bland after everything I've read, so I'm not getting my hopes up :( Hopefully SE can give us something better next time.

The battle system can be fun at times but usually I try to avoid battles because they frustrate me. Wouldn't be so bad if;

You could control more than one character (Gambits anyone?)

it didn't have a WIN button

when you died it isn't gameover. Who's stupid idea was that? I have a medic that knows revive for gods sake, plus I have OTHER characters.

Battle weren't so long for common enemies, gets realy boring

it was tactical or strategic like in previous games.

I've been giving it some thought, and just out of curiosity . . . does anyone else think it might be possible that the majority of the disappointment comes simply from the name it has to live up to?

Thats what I think. If it didn't have a Final Fantasy logo on the front most people wouldn't hate it as much.


The fact that the story doesn't pick up until Chapter 11 in a 13 chapter game says volumes imo.

The story isn't whats lacking until Chapter 11, its the lack of anything other then the story. There's nothing you can do other then continue the story until Chapter 11, and then still... there's not really all to much you can do until your further in the game to reach certain crystarium levels and such to complete any missions.


when you died it isn't gameover.

Its not...you start just outside the monster who you attacked's vision. (An actual downside if you ask me)

EDIT: Oh wait i figured it out you mean't as in when your party leader dies. Yeah that sucks

Yea, I said it before somewhere else but it seems to me that a lot of people who pick out the downsides of this game are the same people who praise those exact same elements when presented in other genres, which make those genres shine. It all has to do with that old saying, there's a time and place for everything. I'm gonna check it out when I have the money, tbh, even after everything I've heard. I'm just gonna approach it with a totally open mind, and forget it's a Final Fantasy game so that I don't judge it based on what the other games have accomplished.

The story isn't whats lacking until Chapter 11, its the lack of anything other then the story. There's nothing you can do other then continue the story until Chapter 11, and then still... there's not really all to much you can do until your further in the game to reach certain crystarium levels and such to complete any missions.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. For me, the story was weak and linear. Add in characters I couldn't form any sort of attachment to (Granted I only played to the end of Chapter three, but my point is still valid imo.) amongst other things, and I can say that from my own experience, FFXIII is one of the weaker FF's in the series.

I've been giving it some thought, and just out of curiosity . . . does anyone else think it might be possible that the majority of the disappointment comes simply from the name it has to live up to?
No. I certainly do not think that highly of Final Fantasy. It's mostly just a spectacle in its production quality, really.


And I myself am a firm lover of every single game in the series equally, only now to finally find some disappointment in XIII due to its linearity.
The game's linearity isn't really one of my criticisms of the game. Most reviews I've read that have scored it under 7 or 8 often name several of my complaints while barely touching on the linearity. Except for when your path is literally linear even though you're in a huge city/forest, it isn't really an issue. It's a pretty weak complaint, especially since Final Fantasy games have always been linear and not allowed any effect on the story. They're more like adventure games with a levelling system than RPGs (and I suppose this is especially true with FF13).

My point here is FF13 has a lot of issues beyond its linearity and they all prove far more detrimental.


Some things I've seen (and read) that I liked about the game:

� Fun battle system. And hey, sometimes all a game really needs to be is fun, right?
� Great graphics. Okay, yea, even I'm a sucker for next-gen graphics. I can admit it.
� Interesting character designs (as always).
� Very little music I've heard from it yet, but what I've heard so far, I've liked.
� What looks to be the ability to jump while on the out-of-battle terrain? I dunno, looked kinda cool. Different for an RPG.
I'm fine with you finding enjoyment in the game, but I'll just explain why I wasn't able to. The battle system is fine, really. I still think X-2's has the best system, but FFXIII ranks pretty high. There are a few problems with it, though. The stagger system is a huge pain in the arse when working with a party of two. Actually, it's a pain period. By chapter 11 I was completely sick of it. The most annoying part about it is that it just adds length to incredibly easy fights. At least in the Final Fantasy games before 13 - all of which are just as easy - you could chew through the battles in seconds and get your reward. Here you have to sit through a long battle which consists of mashing X and occasionally paradigm shifting (and battles fizzle out with no fanfare, literally). However, there's more to the gameplay than just the battle system. Character progression takes place in the Crystarium system in FFXIII. It is a complete waste of time. Essentially all you're doing is what was done automatically for you in past FFs. The Sphere grid did the whole manual levelling thing right. FFX-2 (and FFV) did jobs right. FFXIII messed up in both areas.

Graphics were good but I wasn't a fan of the art style. Backgrounds seemed like a blur of steampunk-esque buildings and bright blue lights. That's just me, though.

Character design is not a strong point in the Final Fantasy series, in my opinion. Characters are covered in belts and zippers (excuse the meme) and given physics-defying hair. They aren't game-breaking, but it's not like they can carry the game either.

The music was pretty bland, I thought. The OST consists of mostly background music that does little to draw your attention. I guess what I mean is (and I think I've said it in this thread before), there's no music you can really hum to. The battle theme is probably the best track in the game but only because of the motif in the "chorus" (I'm not sure if you can call it that!). That motif is used throughout the game though and ends up losing its pizazz.
Anyway, here it is if you want to listen to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfu0XBf8kmk
Not nearly as good as the FF8 Battle Theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyxDEK9sjKg) or Man With The Machine Gun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2vpqd9gKXk), in my opinion. The missing fanfare at the end of the battles kind of sucked too, I thought. Here's some more good stuff from FFVIII! Victory Fanfare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnAVmOlyENk&feature=related)

I think FFVIII has the best OST, by the way. FFIX comes in a very close second.

You can only jump in certain areas. I think that has been done before in Final Fantasy, maybe.

The fact that the story doesn't pick up until Chapter 11 in a 13 chapter game says volumes imo.

and then its over in a flash it seems....

Finished it last night, very abrupt ending

How the hell are people finishing so fast? I guess I'm grinding? Also, I usually only leave my PS3 on for an hour or so at the most.

How the hell are people finishing so fast? I guess I'm grinding? Also, I usually only leave my PS3 on for an hour or so at the most.

I was also grinding, 60hrs & completion, with the greatest of ease too.

I can't justify paying 130$AUSD for a game which had no redeeming qualities (imo that is) and is a yawnfest until almost the end of the game. I'd rather play something that I enjoy instead.

I'm at like 40.

Hmm, that Battle Theme music sort of reminds me of FFVIII's Battle Theme, as far as how it starts off anyhow. It is a pretty cool theme, actually. So, it pretty much sounds to me like the music follows in the same node as Crisis Core (which I really love). Crisis Core is an awesome game, and even if it is rather linear as well (not something I'm complaining about, just an observation) there are plenty of other optional things to do, which makes it one of my favorite FF titles, and video game titles in general. FFXIII doesn't present any such minigames, does it (and it doesn't sound like it does from what I've read)? If it did, that would sure be a plus, but I'm not counting on it :O

And I agree, the linearity really isn't an issue. I've sort of come to terms with that and realized that there are plenty of linear games I consider my favorite games of all time. Sometimes you have to just refrain from considering something by the same standards of everything else of the same series, and focus on its own individual merits. Ultimately linearity really isn't the most damaging factor to a game, but the content of that linear path.

I still have yet to play FFX-2, but I've sure seen lots of evidence that it's got one of the best battle systems of the series. I used to let the 'girliness' of it hold me back, but I've learned that that is a major mistake. This interests me even more in trying out XIII and seeing how it stacks up to the others in my eyes.

I do love every FF soundtrack, with the exception of Dirge of Cerberus; its more subtle, ambient sounds do compliment it to some degree, but I do like it when a game features tunes I can still hum to even after I've shut it off. Crisis Core sort of follows in the same node, but less emphasis on the ambient side; it's a little more exciting. Maybe that helps, but I do enjoy its OST better. But I'm getting off-topic; the only song from XIII I've heard so far is the battle theme, and the vocalized theme song I can't recall the name of right now. Not sure what to make of the music yet, but it doesn't sound too bad I guess (although my thoughts on that will probably change, if the only recurring 'chorus' [and I couldn't have picked a better word for that either, lol] comes from that song alone).

The only FF I've seen jumping occur in was Mystic Quest, which I played on an emulator (God I hate admitting I've used those before.. Makes me feel like I've shoplifted a game:() and the use of it there was pretty good I thought. Almost wish it was an option in other titles as well. Maybe it'll fit into XIII the same way, we'll see.

As for the Crystarium system, I've been a bit skeptical about it from the start. I do love FFX's Sphere Grid, but I'm thinking they're only trying to imitate it yet again (the License Board in FFXII gives me the same indication). I mean, I'm all for them trying to help the player level up how they want to, and it's a very helpful and innovative system. But I dunno, I'll just have to see how I feel about XIII's system. Just kinda in the middle in my feeling on it right now.

Overall, I do gotta give SE props for their cinematic aspirations with this game, and I'm still gonna buy it eventually (probably try it out first, if I have a friend who owns it) because a.) it's still FF, and b.) it sounds like it borrows various elements extensively from other games I love, so for me personally, I have a feeling it won't be so bad.

The battle theme of FF13 is definitely the strong point of the OST. There are other parts of the soundtrack I like too (Vile Peaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chQ3Rlx_Lco)), but they still really just sound like background noise rather than the catchy tunes of the old games.

You should definitely play X-2. It's easily my most played game in the series. It has a new game plus system, as well as an indicator of how much of the game you've completed. Getting 100% is tricky, but I thought it was pretty fun. The story is also pretty good, so long as you don't just rush through the game without doing any of the optional sidequests.

There isn't a button for jumping in FFXIII. I'm sure in past FFs there have been scripted areas where you can jump or whatever. They do seem more frequent in 13, but it's nothing all that interesting. The characters are somehow able to jump about twice their own height though.

The Crystarium seemed so pointless to me. You earn points to spend in the crystal through battle, but your path in each crystal is mostly a straight line. Every now and then you'll have a fork in the road and you'll have to choose, but I never thought the decision was all that difficult.

I quit playing some time into Chapter 11 because I was pretty tired of everything in the game. It's not awful, but it wasn't really enough to carry my interest for that long.

ok im really tired so I admit I only skimmed the posts above but I will address the only thing my brain decided to connect. The Soundrack. Are you telling me you felt nothing from the soundtrack when you went through the Sunlith Waterscape? Too tired to argue so i'll just stop there

The lyrics ruined it.

I know what you mean. But you have to remember this is the first FF to hit the PS3 (Not counting the shitbox). And besides I kinda understand too, like when I first got the game it was fun. But after a bit of playing I just lost the passion and the willingness to go back and play it. Currently I'm in Chapter 10 and you know what? I want to play it to finish it but the game itself lost a lot of it's quality in a great FF game. The game itself and the story is as again great. But the concept and the background of the game loses itself in all the running forward to stop some enemy thing. I miss the towns, the world map, the needing to go back to find something, the willingness to explore a bit more even though you have so little potions for your characters. I miss all of it. Sure FFXIII is great in it's own world, but the to compare it to the older FF's. No need.

FFVII-FFX all had a great storyline and gameplay, each one of them had it's own world and people. The way you look at it is of course from your own perspective. To be honest, I liked FFVIII because of the story, but the leveling system and no MP just killed it for me. FFIX was great, went back to the old school shit. Lots of equipment, a longass story and a world map. FFX was great, lost the world map kinda, but great story and game. Lots and lots of shit to do as well. FFXII was just plain out well....good but not that great. The only thing at least that's what I think is that we look foward to Versus XIII. From the interviews that I've been reading, Tetsuya said that the reason why it's taking so damn long is because of the world map and air ships. So something to look forward to lol.

I agree.....

One of Sony, One of Nintendo? That's not all of the consoles. 2 Microsoft, 3 Sony, 4 Nintendo

Don't you mean 5 Nintendo consoles?

Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Game boy, Gameboy colour, Gba, Gba Sp, Ds, Dsi, Ds lite.

And the other console with a use for R.O.B



Did I miss any?

Microsoft has made only two consoles: Xbox and Xbox 360.


I know what you mean. But you have to remember this is the first FF to hit the PS3 (Not counting the shitbox).

Typical Sony Whore mentality. Have you actually played any Xbox 360's games, or is this just the usual 'PS3 is superior, everything else sucks' banter?

(Not counting the shitbox)



Typical Sony Whore mentality. Have you actually played any Xbox 360's games, or is this just the usual 'PS3 is superior, everything else sucks' banter?

There we go again.
aznvietguy411, STFU N00B!
& DH ignore that kind of comment.

PS3 is good, XBOX is good. Moving on...

I didn't played this game but it sounds just like Digital Devil Saga. A fucking Dungeon Crawler with Fucking boring Random Battles. That Sucks.
They should put the graphics on like 5th place of priority & make a good fucking game with good fucking gameplay & good fucking storyline.
Though I'm looking foward to see how Versus XIII results to be.

Final Fantasy 13 is nowhere near as good as DDS. DDS is awesome.

Also PS3 is better than the 360.

Okay I have played the Xbox before. In fact I have the old fat one. Still collecting dust in my room. It's just the box never really caught my attention except for Halo and Gears...Sorry but I'm not trying to sound like a Sony whore here it's just people have different taste in different gaming consoles. I do love the Xbox because there's a shitload of games for it yes, but again it doesn't catch my eye. I never even played the Digital Devil Sage to begin with...I don't even know what it is lol.

Final Fantasy 13 is nowhere near as good as DDS. DDS is awesome.


DDS has an interesting concept & storyline, but I hated the gameplay.

The Shin-Megami-Tensei series Is one of the best (if not the best) RPG series. and now back to the topic @ hand..

Also PS3 is better than the 360.

I beg to differ.


Okay I have played the Xbox before. In fact I have the old fat one. Still collecting dust in my room. It's just the box never really caught my attention except for Halo and Gears...Sorry but I'm not trying to sound like a Sony whore here it's just people have different taste in different gaming consoles. I do love the Xbox because there's a shitload of games for it yes, but again it doesn't catch my eye.

Out of the PS2 and Xbox, both are good consoles. PS3 and Xbox 360, depends on what you like. I'm just sick and tired of opinionated assholes, who think that anything from Sony is superior to everything else on the market.

Back to topic at hand, I've heard from a lot of people (since I sold my copy of FFXIII) go on and on about the pro's and con's of the game and I still think I did the right thing in getting rid of it. However, that's not to say that at a later time I 'may' get another copy and play it (I did that with FFIX. At first I hated that game, but played it again some time later and did enjoy it.), but IDK.

I got bored during Chapter 4.

Prolly will never go back to it.

I beg to differ.

I beg to differ your begging to differ

Anyway people who say it has a crap storyline obviously have never played it past Chapter 2 or 3. Its not the story that is lacking it is the lack of anything else that is lacking (up until chapter 11). Really most other games you have to stick to the story without doing anything else. That's why I think that it is a pretty all right game just crap compared to other Final Fantasies.

I beg to differ your begging to differ

stfu


Anyway people who say it has a crap storyline obviously have never played it past Chapter 2 or 3. Its not the story that is lacking it is the lack of anything else that is lacking (up until chapter 11). Really most other games you have to stick to the story without doing anything else. That's why I think that it is a pretty all right game just crap compared to other Final Fantasies.

I've played it to the conclusion of chapter 3... and it was boring. I'm not going to waste my time playing a boring game, even if it does pick up towards the end. As I've said before... playing a game with 13 chapters and only from chapter 11+ does the story get good, I can't justify paying out the money for a game like that (even though I did, because I thought it was going to be good... but for me, it wasn't).

The story doesn't really get any better ever, it just becomes more coherent in the later chapters.

I wound up selling this for $25 after chapter five. Much like MGS4 it felt like I was watching a movie conveniently disguised as a game. I've had enough of this modern game bullshit and will gladly go play stuff I missed on older systems. It pisses me off magazines suck the cocks of games like this that have so many obvious problems.

I could detail the reasoning for my decision to sell this but I believe the forum has aptly summarized my rational.

Woah, there is a world map and airships in Versus? I just got a boner.

I wound up selling this for $25 after chapter five. Much like MGS4 it felt like I was watching a movie conveniently disguised as a game. I've had enough of this modern game bullshit and will gladly go play stuff I missed on older systems. It pisses me off magazines suck the cocks of games like this that have so many obvious problems.

I could detail the reasoning for my decision to sell this but I believe the forum has aptly summarized my rational.

I agree with this statement, even though I haven't played the game yet. I'll rent it when I get a Ps3 but I'm not getting my hopes up I'll actually buy it.


Woah, there is a world map and airships in Versus? I just got a boner.

x2

You are weakening, young padawan.

I'd probably like it better if I had Neg to play it with :D Same goes for RE5, which is totally not the same playing by yourself; I kinda regret getting it, having no one to play it with now.

If you had gotten it for PS3 we could have totally played. I need to rebuild my file, though. I don't play without infinite ammo, for the sake of everyone involved.

Don't worry; it'll be one of my first games I purchase once I've got the mighty third entry in the Playstation lineage ;)

Decided to give XIII another go. I hate, hate, hate the first two chapters. Not getting CP makes the fights pointless and tedious, plus the sickly green setting was vomit-worthy. I've skipped all the cutscenes so far, I've seen them all recently. Managed to get to chapter 3 in under an hour and chapter 4 just under two. Ridiculously easy but it's okay at the moment. I am dreading the rubbishness of the next couple of chapters though, two party members? WEAK.

Against my words here before, I've actually gone and bought another copy of this (I passed a gaming store and saw in their mark down bin at the front, a sealed copy of the Collector's Edition for 10$AUSD, so I thought "What the fuck..." and for that price, purchased it.) and have decided to give this one final go. Do I think my overall opinion of it will change? Most probably not, but for two reasons I'm giving this a third, final try.

Reason 1: To add it to my collection of FF games (Lame reason I know, but as I have all the other FF games, I might as well add the 13th installment.).

Reason 2: I've played and finished all the other FF's (With a exception for FFXIO), so just for my own personal feeling of completion.

Seriously, you have the strangest mentality ever, buying it for what, the third time now?! (But that's not a dig - strange is good!)

The game does have some great cutscenes, that are well worth seeing. And as I said on another thread, I personally consider Chapters 7-9 (and bits and bobs of Chapter 10) to be the best ones in terms of the story.

The gameplay gets better from Chapter 10 onwards, not so much with the story (there's still a few decent bits, and a couple of hugely impressive cutscenes), but the real meat of the story is in Ch 7-10.

And as someone mentioned earlier, Ch 4 (and in fact 5 and 6 as well) are very poor. They really should have done more to liven up those chapters, (I can't believe there is no level where you use Snow and Fang).


One the XBOX versus PS3 issue (I know, I know), I'd just like to say that whilst I think the two consoles are both decent, this is one of those situations where the PS3 version is clearly better.

No great surprise, as Square were very reluctant to put FF13 on the 360 in the first place. And with 3 discs to the PS3's 1, as well as being slightly inferior in terms of graphics in places, I think most review sites agreed if you had the choice, you should go with the PS3.

(But with other games, it's the complete opposite - Bayonetta on the PS3 is a joke, for example).


And I must finally endorse those who supported Shin Megami Tensei. Lucifer's Call is one of all time favourite RPGs. DDS 1 was okay, but I didn't think much of the sequel. The last boss was so anticlimatic, I spent hours on FAQs, wondering if I'd done something wrong!

Seriously, you have the strangest mentality ever, buying it for what, the third time now?! (But that's not a dig - strange is good!)

Actually, this is the second time I've bought it. Sold my first copy for 90$AUSD, borrowed my cousin's for the second try and bought it again for 10$AUSD.

While I still feel the same I do originally about this game, it's just from utter boredom I've played more as well as my compulsion to finish a FF game and to add it to my collection

EDIT: Add in that most stores are still selling FFXIII for 80-100$AUSD, and that the store I went to had it marked down for 10$AUSD says a lot imo (It's part of a franchise, and after checking with three other stores in that franchise, they're selling FFXIII for 10$AUSD as well).


One the XBOX versus PS3 issue (I know, I know), I'd just like to say that whilst I think the two consoles are both decent, this is one of those situations where the PS3 version is clearly better.

No great surprise, as Square were very reluctant to put FF13 on the 360 in the first place. And with 3 discs to the PS3's 1, as well as being slightly inferior in terms of graphics in places, I think most review sites agreed if you had the choice, you should go with the PS3.

(But with other games, it's the complete opposite - Bayonetta on the PS3 is a joke, for example).

I could add/go on about that 'issue', but I can't be bothered and this isn't the thread to 'discuss' about it.

For the record, I have both consoles. I'm not playing favourites here, I just think in this particular case, the PS3 is the better one. Arguments about 'which console is better' are usually pointless.

Unless its the Wii - death to the Wii! :D

I lacked motivation for half the time i played this game, i dont even know how i got as far as i did to be honest (i got to the last hunt and maxed out my characters crystarium all jobs to level 5, GO ME!) i was going to try and get all the maxed out weapons but trying to get the gil and trapezohedrons together in this game is a bitch, plus i dont really see the point considering their was only one main guy left to kill on the hunts (they should have made it easier to obtain the maxed out weapons) IMO

This is a good point - the levelling up towards the very end is extremely heavy going (I can't believe you managed to get everyone to Level 5!)

And the amount of Gil you need to obtain the maxed ultimate weapons is outrageous.

I bought one bit of Trapezehedron, and was lucky enough to get another from an Adamantoise (1% chance!), but that still leaves me with the task of leveeling them up to 100.

Even with Ultra compact reactors (50, 000 Gil each), it takes a huge amount of them to level them up. So you basically have to hoard about 30+ of them and use them all in one go.

Getting that much Gil is no joke!

And it does feel slightly futile, because as with gravy's example, I only have the final mark left to kill. I can survive easily against him, but I can't kill him anywhere near fast enough, and he eventually casts Doom on my leader.

So I needed to level up more and get better weapons - both extremely hard things to do now. The game could really have done with a proper secret dungeon.

I like the Faultwarrens, but it still doesn't meet my Exp needs!

Yeah i enjoyed the faultwarrens, i think that was the best part of the game for me.

I just cant beleive how shallow the game was compared to FFXII (Im a FFXII fan BTW) the amount of things you have to do in XII compared to XIII is unbeleivable, i have piggyback guides for both games and they are roughly same size, i dont know what they filled XIII's up with, i did'nt read half of it, the game just felt empty to me, bland, no real exploration, like going in a straight line, i like the music though sulyya springs is awesome (still not as good as FFXII score though)

I lost motivation to play the game as you did a few times.

But everytime I eventually seem to find some sort of motivation.

The past few days I've been playing FF III on the DS more than I have XIII.

However, whenever I do decide to play the game, I've been impressed a few times.

It'll be much better whenever I can change party leader, which should be soon.

the game just felt empty to me, bland, no real exploration, like going in a straight line)

I feel the same way about it so far.

I'm just awaiting when I can go to the "surface world" or wherever where I can ride chocobos, and supposedly have an open area to explore.

But even then, it's only a limited time.

I liked XII, the story was good but its not what i really expect from a final fantasy game..but i like that they try to innovate the story and overall feel of the games.

Versus XIII could be a classic. I'm hoping the world map is nice, and that we can finally fly our airships again.

Lyrically N Gaged, Try not to double post...

The thing is, Gravy levelled his characters up to Lvl 5 in all roles, so he must have had some motivation.

I mean, you might not understand this until you get to that stage, but getting that many CPs is an absolutely mammoth undertaking, and I mean really!

Even if you kill Adamantoises and Long Guis exclusively, and with Growth Egg equipped to give double CPs (earning tens of thousands of CPs in the latter case for every one creature killed), it takes *forever*.

Because of the sheer amount you need to progress even one space at the higher levels of the non-preferred roles.

must get round to playing this, but it just seems to be cut scene after cut scene, and then run a bit, have one fight, then cutscene and repeat......

must get round to playing this, but it just seems to be cut scene after cut scene, and then run a bit, have one fight, then cutscene and repeat......

That's pretty much it tbh.

The game doesn't use towns really, nor does it make extensive use of specific temples/dungeons etc. These usually inform when cutscenes will happen.

I.e you'll usually get plot related cutscenes in towns, even if they are just to restate where you are currently going. You're also odds on to have some kind of cutscene at or around the inn, when you sleep there.

In dungeons, you'll usually get one going in, then two for every boss of substance that you meet (meeting the boss and just after beating it).

As FF13 doesn't conform to this tyrannical stereotype, it has to find other ways to tell its story.

And IMO, it's better to get lots of little cutscenes, than have the traditional 'Here we are in a town, so let's have a really, really long discussion about what's going on, possibly with flashbacks and powerpoint presentations'.

Having plenty of cutscenes helps to focus the mind on what you are actually doing. Many RPGs fall prey to the syndrome where in the middle of grinding your way over hill and dale, you suddenly stop and think:

'Hang on... where are we? Where are we going, again? What are we supposed to be doing when we get there?'

You might know that you're heading for City A, but it will have been so long ago that anyone laid out what your party were actually doing (and why they are doing it), that it's extremely easy in a whole host of RPGs I could mention, to completely forget what is actually going on in the story.

But I accept that the cutscenes can be intrusive, in terms of breaking up the gameplay, especially early on.

It's unfortunate that whilst the game is (IMO) one of the best in terms of sheer gameplay, the game often seems determined not to let you actually play!

Again though, fans will have to accept some share of the blame for this. FF12 was open world right from the off, and had all sorts of side missions to attempt, plus it let you go off exploring and grinding to your heart's content, from a very early point.

And all it got from FF fans, was grief. Complaints about slow story, not enough storyline things happening etc.

This game has oodles of cutscenes, and the characters are split up into small teams to make sure none of them go without story and character development for long.

And now people complain there isn't enough gameplay or side missions?

Truly, 'Unpleaseable Fanbase' was designed for us!

This game is utter trash, nuff said. As the escapist brilliantly put it, "a game that takes 20 hours to get good isn't a positive thing." Let me essentially boil down what happened: Square tried hard cuz it was poor as fuck and going to go bankrupt. They then came out with half decent games that they tried hard to have good characters and good story and fun gameplay (RELATIVELY TO NOW), such as 4, 5, tactics, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. Regardless of how much you disliked each of them (I personally think 8 is cock and 9 is the best but it doesn't fucking matter), they weren't terrible. Now that they're rich (hopefully not too much longer), they fucking bring out shitfests with great graphics that have a retarded seamstress weaving in the story. I have yet to play a fucking final fantasy, including 12 (shitty as it was), that took more than five hours to get a vague confusing idea of what the fuck the plot was supposed to be. Five hours in, all I know is that my focus involves a fucking Dragon monster thing and all I have to go on is Snow's "HERO PARADE" and honestly, it's stupid as all hell.

STORY

Speaking of which, I'm on chapter 11 at the moment and it took me a good three months to get there thanks to the story's incredible pull and it is boring as all fuck. Someone mentioned that the story got a lot better. How so? OH MAYBE CUZ A STORY EXISTS NOW? Sorry fucking late there eh? Final Fantasy 9 ended at 19 hours and I left with a very satisfying feeling in my balls after that game (Yeah and I dont give a shit if you didn't like it, replace 9 with whatever game you felt was good). Pretty much, Final Fantasy 13 blows cock, the JRPG feel was supposed to establish a cool story early on with the linearity, WHICH it didn't and honestly who the flaming fuck cares.

CHARACTERS

The Characters blow dick. Half the reason FF7 was popular was cuz cloud was slightly cocky and had a huge fucking sword, tifa had awesome tits and was girly at times, and Aeries was pretty fucking girly. Barret had a gun on his hand and ramboed everything, Red 13 was a fucking dog, and Vincent was some emo cunt and Yuffie was a ninja that...OMG? ACTED LIKE A GIRL? Who cares if they were shallow, at least they were somewhat representative of what I saw on the screen. Heres FINAL FANTASY 13 in a fucking nutshell.

1. Lightning: "Hi I'm Lightning and I am a man"
2. Sahz: Man if you could possibly stop crying and being a bitch all game, that would be great.
3. Snow: Man if you could possibly stop crying and being a bitch all game, that would be great.
4. Hope: Man if you could possibly stop crying and being a bitch all game, that would be great.
5. Vanille: Man if you could possibly stop crying and being a bitch all game, that would be great.
6: Fang: "Hi I'm Fang and I am a man."

Oh. Yeah, I love relating to these faggots.

Graphics

Whoop de fucking do. You're awesome. Here's a cookie.

GAMEPLAY

"It gets strategic."

1. Select role : DPS/DEBUFF
2. Press Auto Battle.
3. Change to Healing/DPS
4. Press Auto Battle.
5. Change to DPS/DPS
6. Press Auto Battle.

COOL AUTO BATTLE. SO AWESOME. Nice flips btw lightning. They got old 18 hours ago after the 2nd corridor I ran through. And yeah, best gameplay? You fucking retarded? In other Final Fantasies, I didn't mindlessly push one fucking button till my guys were fucking beefy as fuck.

What else is left in this shitfest? Music? Forgettable. Like the rest of this game.

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

And yeah this is a double post and this is why FF games have gone down the shitter. Sagakuchi, who has worked on every game through 9, was fired for his failure at the FF MOVIE. So not only has 11 and 14 been MMOs, FFx-2, FF12 and FF13 have been extremely lackluster. SURPRISED GUYS?

nuff said.

You should just have stopped there. �_�

Something tells me that you finished the game few hours ago and while your heartwarming memories are still fresh from this, oh so very wonderfully exciting game, you decided give your modest opinion on it.

Judging by the start of this thread, I say you guys bump an lot.

Anyways, The game spikes difficulty by a shitload at Chapter 11, where you will most likely have to do some mission grinding. Not to mention the main area has hugeass fucking gigantic turtles that will kick the living shit out of you if you encounter it early in the chapter. Oh, and at Chapter 11 and beyond, you can through the chapter areas with warp stones and various missions to tackle. A large portion of the game (about half of the 65ish missions I think) are unlocked post game.

I have to also mention I've hear most of this stuff a million times. Especially that "Auto-Win button" or "Press 'X'/'A' to win button". Trust me, if you just spam Auto Battle throughout the later portions of the game with no strategy whatsoever, or sometimes even with, you will die. Just wait until you get to Cid or some of the post-game missions like that god-forsaken Neochu (GOD DAMN PICOCHUS. GO TO HELL.), or the Gigantuar. (HOLY SHIT MOTHERFUCKING HUGE CACTUAR THAT ONLY USES 10,000 NEEDLES)

Ah well god damn I just spent a long time typing this. 5 minutes of my life down the drain. >_>

You think your first post was long? Lol, think again.

And yeah this is a double post and this is why FF games have gone down the shitter. Sagakuchi, who has worked on every game through 9, was fired for his failure at the FF MOVIE. So not only has 11 and 14 been MMOs, FFx-2, FF12 and FF13 have been extremely lackluster. SURPRISED GUYS?

Oh wow, a person who thinks the series went downhill after Sakaguchi left Square. Perhaps I shall see if the sky is not falling and the seas are not running red with blood, ho hi ho hi ho... (My point is, FF12 was probably the best.)

FF13 was awful, but it did try some new things (even though it failed miserably at most, if not all of them), and for that it deserves some praise. Don't blame everything on Square. There are 14 games in the main series now, you can't possibly like every single of them.

Also, welcome Ice Car. We hope you enjoy your stay in our lovely forum.

Sakaguchi - the guy who wrote all the games before the series got popular on a global scale, you mean?

The guy who since leaving has given us the appalling Blue Dragon and possibly the blandest JRPG ever made (the atrocious Lost Odyssesy).

If that's all he's got to offer, then he can stay gone.

You think your first post was long? Lol, think again.

I've made/maintained longer posts. (http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=104749)

This is a bad example, but it is the most recent one I could find at the moment.

I could scour the forum for handful of my really long posts among the 3000, but I don't feel like it.

And also, why can't people just stop bitching about FF13? Enjoy it for what it has. If you don't think it has anything, then no need to post another thread pointing out the exact same imperfections in the game that many many others have a hundred times. And I say this without looking through any topics here since I've seen many topics just like this on Gamefaqs, a few other gaming forums, and even on a few non-gaming themed forums.

Anyways, I'm done posting in these topics. I'm going to post in one that doesn't have the same complaints I've heard a million times.

Sakaguchi - the guy who wrote all the games before the series got popular on a global scale, you mean?

The guy who since leaving has given us the appalling Blue Dragon and possibly the blandest JRPG ever made (the atrocious Lost Odyssesy).

If that's all he's got to offer, then he can stay gone.

Nope, the guy who is responsible for 2 of the most lucrative games in the series: FF VII and FF X, along with 2 of the best RPG in gaming history, if not the best: Final Fantasy VI and IX.

And nope, Lost Odyssey is a lot better than most other JRPGs, including the bland and empty FF XIII. And The Last Story on the Wii seems to be one heck of a title as well.

FFVI & IX best RPG's on gaming history? Give me a break...

FFVI & IX best RPG's on gaming history? They sure are!

Nope, the guy who is responsible for 2 of the most lucrative games in the series: FF VII and FF X, along with 2 of the best RPG in gaming history, if not the best: Final Fantasy VI and IX.

And nope, Lost Odyssey is a lot better than most other JRPGs, including the bland and empty FF XIII. And The Last Story on the Wii seems to be one heck of a title as well.

I think you're mistaking produce for direct. The only titles where he actually had a significant say in was FFIX and Lost Odyssey. And he literally had nothing to do with X. Don't hold him in such high regard for no reason.

I don't know what you mean about Sakaguchi Smarty. He was the director for FF4 and FF5 as being responsible for the original concept of 7 and 9. Whenever I praise the Final Fantasy series, I usually refer to those games. I'm pretty sure those games were widely accepted on a global scale too cough...cough (That was directed at Vyrk). Clearly you loved 12, which is fine, but Final Fantasies were being pumped out with every year to 2 years while he was there, each doing pretty well. We waited 5 years for FF12, and another 4 for FF13. I only hold him in high regard because after he left, there has only been 1 good FF game (FF12 in your opinion, which I disliked because of the reasons you mentioned in the other thread). ONE!! In 10 years!!! From 1989-2001, 10 Final Fantasies came out, and even if you don't like all of them they are all pretty good. You mention FF11/14, but those are a different style of games that are in a complete different genre. So there technically has been 12 Final Fantasies in the series (Discounting 11 and 14) and they last two took 10 (is it 9?) years to come out and only 1 was decent.

To me, the story is everything, so we can agree to disagree about FF12. It really isn't my problem the writer got sick halfway through. I don't praise the last 2 books of Dune because his son tried to interpret his father's story. They fucking blew and I didn't judge the Dune series due to them just like how I don't judge the FF series to these 2 games. Music and gameplay is secondary to me. It's true I pointed Sakaguchi leaving as a reason for Final Fantasy's suckage and it obviously isn't the whole story and I shouldn't throw everything at Square but I can't help but feel that the RPGs I love to play are going to be gone in favor of pissy remakes, expansions and poorly paced newer gen games.

EDIT: Sorry, I keep editing this cuz im bored in class and it inevitably gets longer rofl...about your comment that FF13 should be praised for trying new things, I disagree. There is a way to try new things while remaining true to the things that made the series what it is. I'm not going to go into an example, but most Blizzard series do and I can go into that later if need be.

FF13 seemed like a huge copout to me, especially when they had a lot of things that worked in FF12, and instead of building on it, they just did something completely new and I don't think anyone wanted it (clearly).

Sakaguchi went on second plane on the development of FF games right after 6, after that he only got direct involvement with 9.
X was developed by another team, which is actually the same team that developed XIII.
XII was developed by a combination of Tactics team with Sakaguchi remnants after his departure. XII went on development hell because the mastermind got ill(Yasumi Matsuno). That's why XII gets caotic after the prelude of the game.

That's what Smarty was refering about Sakaguchi.

He was the director of FFIX, meaning he had the major say in every area. The entire game was pretty much his work. As for VII, yes he made the concept, but nothing more. So you pretty much repeated what I said, but OK.

As for games being released less frequently, it has more to do development time and costs than anything else. Believe me, even if Sakaguchi was still working there, you shouldn't be expecting games to release more frequently. I mean, just look at the graphics of XII and XIII. You think those are easy and cheap to make? And both of those games are huge! Hours upon hours of high definition content for XIII is NOT cheap and is not easy. And no developer these days would ever sacrifice visual quality over... well anything else, really. People are demanding amazing graphics these days and if they don't get it then companies don't get to make a profit because nobody would buy it. This is doubly true considering it's FF, the series which has always been known to look amazing.

Whether or not you think these games are good is entirely up to you. But don't try to blame it on development time. There are other factors.

Don't misundestand, it's not like people 10 years ago didn't want their games to look good. It's just that the visual fidelity back then was significantly easier and cheaper. There was only so good a game could look on the PS1.

You have got to be joking about Lost Odyssey. That game was so bad, it was just untrue. It was like the ultimate example of why JRPGs are looked down on - random battles with a dreadfully archaic system, personality free main character, except for the times when he suddenly becomes 'Ultra-emo Man', outrageously flat and lifeless locations, pantomime villain...

And the party - arrgh! If the game didn't have Jansen, I'd just as soon pushed the whole lot of them out to sea in a boat, then sunk it.


As for Sakaguichi, he didn't direct or write the story for FF7. Coming up with the original concept is an extremely vague description, and doesn't reflect the finished product (or else it would say 'Story written by').

And the only one he's directly responsible for in the later series is FF9... Need we say any more?

Amazing how this thread has changed topics like it has.

Time to sit back and enjoy the show:

:popcorn:

I didn't think I was repeating what you said, but adding to it. All you said was that he was the director of 9. I added that he was also the director of 4 and 5, which were not bad by any standards. It doesn't matter anymore. I don't have the evidence to prove a statement such as Sakaguchi leaving = Square's failure. I'll withdraw that point since I was evidently ranting when I wrote it.

However, Sakaguchi's leaving or no, the quality of Final Fantasies produced by Square has gotten invariably shittier, whatever the reason may be, starting after Final Fantasy 10. The discussion for 12 can be carried out elsewhere but an excuse such as "the main story writer fell ill" isn't a good enough reason to come out with a shitty story past the prelude. It isn't what I think, it's just a plain fact of the matter. If you agree the story fell through at any point for whatever reason, whose fault is it for releasing a product that wasn't as good as it could be?

Furthermore, Final Fantasy 13 wasn't plagued with such a disaster so what's the issue there? They spent 5 years in production because they had to flesh out a world in HD that isn't fleshed out for 20 hours of the game? And forget linearity, Final Fantasy 10 was largely linear as well if you recall, so if they already had a shell of an idea of how to approach this (especially considering it was the same team), why did it fail so hard? There is no excuse for the lack of minigames or puzzles for the majority of the game, especially not one riding on a dynamic combat system. Final Fantasy 10's combat system as well as 12's gambit system was plenty dynamic and they didn't use that as a crutch. The hunting minigame introduced in Chapter 11 was introduced the second you got to the world map on Final Fantasy 12. 5 years in the making, with incredible amount of things from previous Final Fantasies to draw from, makes you wonder if the people designing the games at Square even sat down, played through their old content and took time to consider what made them enjoy playing them so much.

And no, I obviously don't think graphically superior games are cheaper or easier to make, but everyone making games these days are competing on the same level. Again I withdrew my argument about Sakaguchi making solid Final Fantasy titles earlier in this post since I don't have anything outside of opinion to prove it, but I stated that 5 years or no, the story would have been more compelling. That is a clarification of what I had said about it taking so long to come out without the bang it was supposed to come out with. Again, before anyone goes on a "Dragoncurry is currently blowing Sakaguchi with kneepads on cuz he hit the floor so hard and fast," the fact that the story was not compelling and the game did not have gameplay elements outside of a "dynamic combat system" for more than two thirds of it does not change nor does it justify the long production time, ESPECIALLY if they spent all that time and effort on the graphics.

Opinions if a game is good or bad is one thing, but whether or not it's Square's fault, it's their jobs to get the kind of quality that has become synonymous with the Final Fantasy trademark onto shelves and the amount of pure cheese that's been released is appalling.

Speaking of which, Metal Gear Solid 4 had amazing graphics. And it was released on PS3 launch date with a good story to boot. Final Fantasy 13 promised sales in development that outdid all the other Final Fantasy titles ever made, I remember reading shit like that on previews on IGN for two to three years. It was all trash.

When the game came out the art director revealed that there were many additional areas that were functioning in an unreleased build, but were left out in the final version due to concerns about the game's length (I personally don't buy this excuse). He stated there was enough additional content to make another FF. That alone makes me believe that Square simply didn't want to waste more money and time to make it better.

When the game came out the art director revealed that there were many additional areas that were functioning in an unreleased build, but were left out in the final version due to concerns about the game's length (I personally don't buy this excuse). He stated there was enough additional content to make another FF. That alone makes me believe that Square simply didn't want to waste more money and time to make it better.

It had less to do with length and more to do with the fact that it was being ported to the 360. They were building it from the ground up to use the PS3 hardware effectively, and when came time to port to the 360, the difference in size between Blu-Ray and DVD became clearer than ever. They had to cut content to make it fit.

I doubt and extra DVD would bother 360 players.

It was already 3 DVD's. They were already pushing it.

3 DVDs is pretty ridiculous.

Nobody is doubting that you think what you say is true.

What I think most people would have a problem with, is your assertion that your views are facts. You say the FF series has gotten worse since FFX, and that's a fact. And yet, I couldn't stand FFx, and loved XII and XIII. But I suppose that my views aren't allowed to be facts, just yours, yes?

The fact that you consider Metal Gear Solid 4 to have a good story is proof enough that we will never see eye on eye on story. And you have the cheek to call Square's games cheesy?

And let's not have all this rewriting of history, shall we? There's no excuse for no side-quests in the majority of the game? Poppycock. FF7 is the most celebrated installment in the series, and it barely has any side quests worth mentioning until you get the Highwind and rescue Cloud (because the Gold Saucer is closed until you get him back).

FFXIII has tons of side quests, but like just about every installment barring XII, you have to wait until late in the story, to get them.

You are entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is. It's not fact anymore than my or anyone else's views are facts. Some people like the recent games, some don't. The quality of the FF series has not diminished; the production values are still sky high, and the games are as free of glitches, slowdown and bugs as anyone could hope for.

Except for the whole ruining consoles thing...

So they say, but I don't know anyone whose console has been ruined by the game. And given that I've put up with the possibility that my 360 could break anytime I start it up, rumours like this hold no terror for me anymore.

Telefunken should make a console... You can't break any of their products. It's like they made their products with pieces of old Panzer Tanks... xD

Except for the whole ruining consoles thing...

:seriously:

:notfucking:

:creepy:

:colbert:

Amazing how this thread has changed topics like it has.

Time to sit back and enjoy the show:

:popcorn:

So they say, but I don't know anyone whose console has been ruined by the game. And given that I've put up with the possibility that my 360 could break anytime I start it up, rumours like this hold no terror for me anymore.

When my Xbox 360 Elite did the Red Ring of Death in August (I had bought it brand new in February this year and it was manufactured in December last year), I found out from Microborg (off the record) that my console was the ninth to have this happen in that month. I was told that all nine consoles had been kept well ventilated and that varying games had been played on all of them. There was only one thing linking them all, and that was Final Fantasy XIII. Speaking for myself I found that to be highly unlikely but getting sent a brand new Elite, while saves M$ time on repairs etc does get one wondering about the game itself and if there is a slim possibility in these rumors.

9 Consoles wrecked because of one game!? THAT'S INSANE!

9 Consoles wrecked because of one game!? THAT'S INSANE!

And such pain should shame that company of fame. It's lame, we've been framed, I say the game is stained. Let's say we maim some dames who claim we need Rogaine. The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain! :D

Come on - the Red Ring of Death predates FF13. It's been around since the console's inception. It's a design flaw of the console, not because of any one game. It's because its so ill define as to what the problem actually is, that these rumours find any purchase. And anyone expecting Microsoft to clear things up shouldn't hold their breaths, as they show no signs of admitting its really a problem at all.

The reason they had FF13 in common was because FF13 was immensely popular on release and sold a record number of copies. The odds had to be good that any given 360 you took at random from the population at that time would have been used to play it - the majority of them being perfectly healthy.

My copy of FF13 was for PS3, but that was motivated more by reviews saying it ran better on PS3, and most importantly of all, the fact it comes on 1 disc on PS3.

Come on - the Red Ring of Death predates FF13. It's been around since the console's inception. It's a design flaw of the console, not because of any one game. It's because its so ill define as to what the problem actually is, that these rumours find any purchase. And anyone expecting Microsoft to clear things up shouldn't hold their breaths, as they show no signs of admitting its really a problem at all.

The Red Ring of Death is a generic warning system, informing the owner of a problem with said console. The following are some reasons as to why it can happen.

Hardware Failure: When a failure of a hardware component occurs, Q4 will flash red. Usually, a two digit error code is displayed on the connected display (such as E74).

General Hardware Failure. When a failure of one of more hardware components occurs, Q1, Q3 & Q4 will flash red. This is similar to the one light error, but there is no error code displayed on the connected display.

Overheating. When the tempreture of the console reaches an unusually high level, the console will shut off the CPU and GPU, run the fans at full speed and flash Q1 and Q3 until the console has cooled sufficiently.

AV Cable Error. When the AV cable is not detected, due to not being plugged in or due to a serious error, all four quadrants will flash red. This error code is not displayed on consoles with an HDMI connection.

I even got the General Hardware Failure lights flash one time, when my HDD wasn't connected properly. So as I said, it's a warning system and when you speak to a M$ tech support, they will ask you how many quadrants were flashing Red and if there was any error codes (Something that the PS3 doesn't do, except flash yellow.) For more information go HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ring_of_Death). So the Red Ring covers a LOT of potential issues.


The reason they had FF13 in common was because FF13 was immensely popular on release and sold a record number of copies. The odds had to be good that any given 360 you took at random from the population at that time would have been used to play it - the majority of them being perfectly healthy.

Yes, it did sell a large number of copies. I don't deny that. However it was also returned quite heavily as well, as anyone can see in a game store in the secondhand game shelves. Also the price for a new copy has plummeted as well.


My copy of FF13 was for PS3, but that was motivated more by reviews saying it ran better on PS3, and most importantly of all, the fact it comes on 1 disc on PS3.

'Most importantly of all, the fact it comes on 1 disc on PS3' No offense, but who gives a fuck? That can be compared to saying FFX is better than FFVII/VIII/IX for the same damn reason! Going by reviews in magazines is one thing, personally I don't read reviews as more often than not they are biased towards the game developer in question and suck their ass.

Microsoft loves to develop things with full of wholes & patches & service packs & updates to fix things poorly developed from the start. A good thing about it that it raises the demand to pepole that works on techincal service...
I fix windows & PC's almost every day of my life because of this. It's just awesome.

The only reason that I use windows is because of compatibility issues & lazyness to learn to use any other OS.

I think that the X360 it's the same thing. Red Ring or Blue Screen it reacts at almost the same things.

EDIT: Olde you made me laugh a lot! thanks for developing a BRAND NEW RAP! xD

'Most importantly of all, the fact it comes on 1 disc on PS3' No offense, but who gives a fuck? That can be compared to saying FFX is better than FFVII/VIII/IX for the same damn reason! Going by reviews in magazines is one thing, personally I don't read reviews as more often than not they are biased towards the game developer in question and suck their ass.

There is a slight difference. And, no, it's not like saying that FFX was better than VII/VIII/IX for that reason. FFXIII is the same game on both systems. The guy has both. Is it really that unreasonable to prefer the more convenient one? 1 disc is more convenient than 3.

There is a slight difference. And, no, it's not like saying that FFX was better than VII/VIII/IX for that reason. FFXIII is the same game on both systems. The guy has both. Is it really that unreasonable to prefer the more convenient one? 1 disc is more convenient than 3.

Not much of a difference, figuratively speaking. Saying that one version is more convenient than the other, due to PS3 having one disc and X360 having 3, is purely semantics.

Well, how's that for a subject change?

Who cares about the number of discs? I care, because most reviews don't tell you whether you have to keep swapping them or not. If its just a case of swapping the discs once, then I don't mind. But Star Ocean 4 for example (also by Square) has 3 discs that you need to swap every time you go to certain areas.

That's far too much hassle when for the same money, I could get a version that doesn't require that. The reviews I read didn't specify whether FF13's discs were one time swaps, so I erred on the side on caution. Add in that the multiplat reviews agreed that the PS3 version runs the cutscenes more smoothly, and it was a no-brainer.

Don't turn this into some kind of 'my console is the rulingest' issue. I have both consoles, and I like them both. But this was as I just said a no-brainer of an issue. The PS3 version ran better and was more convenient for the same price.

And returns are commonplace these days, and I don't see what it has to do with anything we were talking about.

The game looks better and runs better on the PS3 according to so-called experts.
That should be good enough.Doesn't mean one console is always better than the other.
shrugs.

The topic of this thread keeps changing.

I am at Grand Pulse now and trying to figure out how to upgrade weapons.I find the advice people give on other forums and on youtube confusing.
I guess I'll figure it out eventually.

I intend to finish the game.
I feel I have lost that special sense of wonder I felt for FF in the past.I think I lost it over FFXII and my flamewars with some of its fans.
I doubt I'll be able to recapture that feeling but I still intend to finish the game.

FFXIII was an exhausting game for me. I did finish it and I did enjoy the long and epic boss battles toward the end, especially Cid Raines
But it doesn't change the fact that it was practically a dungeon crawler with pretty presentation values.

I'd just like to make it absolutely clear that I wasn't saying the PS3 is better all the time (I don't think AW was accusing me of that, but just in case).

I've found that the differance in quality of multiplat games is usually very small on most games, with the better version often depending on which was considered the lead format.

Who cares about the number of discs? I care, because most reviews don't tell you whether you have to keep swapping them or not. If its just a case of swapping the discs once, then I don't mind. But Star Ocean 4 for example (also by Square) has 3 discs that you need to swap every time you go to certain areas.

Then it's just personal preference then. Call me old, but I don't mind the disc swap system. It worked in FFVII-IX, Hell it even worked in Mass Effect 2. Just because the data is all crammed on one disc doesn't mean that the single disc version is superior to the multi disc version. As you stated above though, Star Ocean 4 requiring you to change discs multiple times upon entrance into different areas, that is a bad game flaw I won't deny but it's only a minor gripe.


That's far too much hassle when for the same money, I could get a version that doesn't require that. The reviews I read didn't specify whether FF13's discs were one time swaps, so I erred on the side on caution. Add in that the multiplat reviews agreed that the PS3 version runs the cutscenes more smoothly, and it was a no-brainer.

Once again that boils down to personal preference. Saying the CS's run more smoothly on the PS3... so? That's just eye candy, and doesn't take away from the fact that FFXIII is a abysmal game (IMO that is). I've stated my reasons as to why I have these feelings for it, and I'm not going into detail here.


Don't turn this into some kind of 'my console is the rulingest' issue. I have both consoles, and I like them both. But this was as I just said a no-brainer of an issue. The PS3 version ran better and was more convenient for the same price.

Ok... this is the last time I comment about which is better... I'm not the one starting that 'my console is the rulingest' issue, I was just presenting the info about the Red Ring of Death as a lot of people are under the misconception as to what it is exactly, hence why I added the link in my post which detailed just what the Red Ring specified. I honestly couldn't care less about the PS3 as there are no games on it which interest me therefore I have no incentive to go and buy one. Call me a M$ whore, I don't care, I prefer the Xbox 360 over the PS3 as there are more games on the 360 that I prefer.


And returns are commonplace these days, and I don't see what it has to do with anything we were talking about.

True returns are commonplace, but after a week - 2 weeks of the game's release? That says a lot about the game in question. Contrary to 'experts' and 'reviewers', FFXIII IS flawed in game design, story, almost everything. Only the character designs and backgrounds are remotely interesting, but as a whole, FFXIII falls flat on it's face.

Evidently you haven't played SO4 to its conclusion then. Near the end, certain weapon and armour synths require large amounts of very specific ingredients. As you can only hold certain amounts of items, and can only create items in the Calnus (which is permanantly stationed in the final dungeon at the end, forcing you to use teleports back and forth), it means disc swapping every 10 minutes or so!

No thanks! I wasn't taking any such chances again. Reminds me of the days of Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis on the Amiga. 15 discs... arrgh!

And your insistence that its just personal preferance is wrong. The flaws may be reletively minor, but surely the real issue is that the PS3 version didn't have those flaws at all and cost the same money. Why put up with flaws when you don't have to?

Its not personal preferance in this case - its just common sense! It's only personal preferance when both versions are exactly the same.

And in those circumstances, I would likely buy the 360 version, for the simple reason that I like Achievements and Gamerscore more than the PS3 Trophies. Now that is personal preferance and I care not who knows it.


Relax - the thing about 'which console is the rulingest' was a joke (when do I ever use words like rulingest?) I want to avoid an argument over which console is best, only slightly less than I wish to avoid hearing PC snobs giving us our monthly lecture on why all people who own or have ever seen consoles are the lowest forms of life known to man.

And it doesn't matter how many times you say it - just because you don't like FF13, doesn't make it a bad game, nor does it mean other people can't and didn't enjoy it. All it means is that you didn't like it. And let's not confuse your survey of the shops in your area with global trends. In places where JRPgs do well, it won't be seeing such returns, in places they do badly, it will.

And that would have happened regardless of quality. Because a perfect version of something you don't like is still at the end of the day, something you don't like. People buy things they don't want because of hype and then return them - happens with everything and it happens all the time.

If we just went regionally and asked the people of Japan what they thought of Halo or Mass Effect etc, they'd say they don't like them. That doesn't mean either franchise actually IS bad, it just means they aren't games the Japs care for. JRPGs aren't doing well over here nowadays - and regardless of the budget and name, FF is still a JRPG.

So I'm not arguing about returns, and like I said before, I still don't see what it has to do with the point we were discussing. That being the (in my opinion, absurd) suggestion that FF13 gives 360's the Red Ring of Death. The fact that so many copies were sold and there has been no tidal wave of new cases reported in its wake, suggests to me that this story is utter nonense.

The Red Ring of Death can happen to any 360 at any time. My first 360 died, and I cared meticulously for that machine. I have an extreme aversion to heat, so my room always has at least 2 fans going at any given moment. I keep it in the posture suggested, and dedicate one of my fans to it - and it still died.

But because I like the 360, I bought another one, and this one is (touch wood) behaving itself.

So, I've said my piece.

Evidently you haven't played SO4 to its conclusion then. Near the end, certain weapon and armour synths require large amounts of very specific ingredients. As you can only hold certain amounts of items, and can only create items in the Calnus (which is permanantly stationed in the final dungeon at the end, forcing you to use teleports back and forth), it means disc swapping every 10 minutes or so!

No thanks! I wasn't taking any such chances again. Reminds me of the days of Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis on the Amiga. 15 discs... arrgh!

No I didn't. After trying to play it numerous times, the bad story, unlikable characters and everything else made me trade it in for another game.


And your insistence that its just personal preferance is wrong. The flaws may be reletively minor, but surely the real issue is that the PS3 version didn't have those flaws at all and cost the same money. Why put up with flaws when you don't have to?

Its not personal preferance in this case - its just common sense! It's only personal preferance when both versions are exactly the same.

No it is personal preference. It boils down to which console each individual prefers over the other, and that helps define what they purchase.


And in those circumstances, I would likely buy the 360 version, for the simple reason that I like Achievements and Gamerscore more than the PS3 Trophies. Now that is personal preferance and I care not who knows it.

I agree with you here, I like the whole Achievements and Gamerscore setup on Xbox Live, though I'm annoyed by how many people play some games using cheat codes which make it impossible to get Achievements unlocked (As much as I love Saints Row 2, it is a culprit here). I have no clue about what the PS3 Trophy whatever is, I would assume some sort of knock off of the Achievement system M$ has on Xbox 360.


Relax - the thing about 'which console is the rulingest' was a joke (when do I ever use words like rulingest?) I want to avoid an argument over which console is best, only slightly less than I wish to avoid hearing PC snobs giving us our monthly lecture on why all people who own or have ever seen consoles are the lowest forms of life known to man.

You get them everywhere.


And it doesn't matter how many times you say it - just because you don't like FF13, doesn't make it a bad game, nor does it mean other people can't and didn't enjoy it. All it means is that you didn't like it. And let's not confuse your survey of the shops in your area with global trends. In places where JRPgs do well, it won't be seeing such returns, in places they do badly, it will.

A majority of people I've spoken to not just here, but on other forums and in gaming stores/conventions/etc all have the same thing to say about FFXIII: It's a bad game. Period. True it's up to the individual in question whether they like the game or not, and if there are people who like/enjoy FFXIII then so be it. Bare in mind though, that for every person who likes a game, there's a person who hates it.


And that would have happened regardless of quality. Because a perfect version of something you don't like is still at the end of the day, something you don't like. People buy things they don't want because of hype and then return them - happens with everything and it happens all the time.

There is no such thing as a 100% universally accepted 'perfect' game. That boils down again to personal preference. One person may love a game, call it the 'bestest eva', yet another may hate it. Some people believed the hype about FFXIII, thought it was going to be great... yet hated it when it came out. Myself, I didn't like it from when I first heard about it, however I intended to give it the benefit of the doubt. I still stand by my distaste and utter dislike for this installment.


If we just went regionally and asked the people of Japan what they thought of Halo or Mass Effect etc, they'd say they don't like them. That doesn't mean either franchise actually IS bad, it just means they aren't games the Japs care for. JRPGs aren't doing well over here nowadays - and regardless of the budget and name, FF is still a JRPG.

IMO, JRPG's aren't catching up with the times. People who grew up with them (myself being one), don't really like/enjoy the modern JRPG's available. As you know Vyrkolas, I'm a Mass Effect fan and if I'm called a ME fanboy because of it, so be it. I enjoy BioWare's style of games more than JRPG's period. I can attribute that to the fact that as I've grown older, my tastes in games have changed/matured and older titles I used to enjoy, I don't anymore. But that's just me.


So I'm not arguing about returns, and like I said before, I still don't see what it has to do with the point we were discussing. That being the (in my opinion, absurd) suggestion that FF13 gives 360's the Red Ring of Death. The fact that so many copies were sold and there has been no tidal wave of new cases reported in its wake, suggests to me that this story is utter nonense.

There are some theories as to why FFXIII is causing problems. There's the whole lawsuit being brought against Sony and SE in America about FFXIII damaging PS3 consoles, and there can not be denying the fact that some new Xbox 360 Elite/Arcade consoles and PS3 consoles owners are experiencing the same problem, and the link being FFXIII. One of my cousins got a PS3 three weeks ago with FFXIII... and that died about a week later. He was even told by Sony's tech dept., off the record, that the cause was due to a game he was playing. Granted the cousin in question is fucking asshole, still does make one wonder.


The Red Ring of Death can happen to any 360 at any time. My first 360 died, and I cared meticulously for that machine. I have an extreme aversion to heat, so my room always has at least 2 fans going at any given moment. I keep it in the posture suggested, and dedicate one of my fans to it - and it still died.

But because I like the 360, I bought another one, and this one is (touch wood) behaving itself.

The Red Ring of Death, as I stated earlier, is a warning system. It can mean many things, depending on how many quadrants are flashing. Some can be sorted out quite easily, others need to have the console sent in to M$. My first 360 was a first gen, and they were more susceptible to the RROD than subsequent models (with those it was mainly due to some soldering coming loose from the motherboard or something), and as it went RROD outside of warranty it was discarded. My second, a 360 Arcade, died through outside interference (namely a family member who borrowed it and physically damaged it by jamming a knife into the slot the HDD fits in. Fortunately it was still under warranty and was repaired rather quickly). My third, the Xbox 360 Elite I bought this year, was working perfectly until FFXIII. Like I said, I just found it rather odd that it went RROD after playing my second attempted playthrough of FFXIII. That console was replaced by M$ with a new console and is working fine. I was given a Xbox 360 Slim in July, and so far, not one thing wrong with it at all. Yes, I'm a M$ whore... so what?


So, I've said my piece.

As have I.

The PS3 Trophies are the ultimate in cheap knock off imitations. They weren't originally included at all, but got added later when they saw how the Achievements system took off. I've tried and tried, but I just can't get excited about Trophies (they don't have any Gamerscore either).

Nothing beats that KERR-LONK! that tells you an Achievement has been unlocked (I know its usually referred to as Bleep Bloop, but it sounds more like a Ker-lonk to me!)

I thought people knew better not to rely on using such BSs as "I know lots of people (ALL my friends [the 2 of them]) who think the same" or "all the stores in my city have seen this or that happen" when arguing a point.

This is one of the weakest way of pleading a point. Seriously, just don't do that. �_�

I thought people knew better not to rely on using such BSs as "I know lots of people (ALL my friends [the 2 of them]) who think the same" or "all the stores in my city have seen this or that happen" when arguing a point.

This is one of the weakest way of pleading a point. Seriously, just don't do that. �_�

Then would you like me to list all of their names, occupations and contact information? Would you rather I make some incredulous claim that I have documented statements proving thus?

DH everyone is a M$ whore, the only people that isn't a whore of that company are the ones that uses Mac OS or any GNU/Linux distribution. But it doesn't matter.

Since when you're immediately branded M$ whore, because you use Windows? In case you didn't there are people who use but I doesn't mean they support M$.

98% of the pepole that use Windows is because of ignorance.
Windows is the worse OS in the market, it's full of errors, programing a virus for windows is very simple & easy, it consumes a lot of hardware to function properly, it's expensive, but people still uses it, because they got used to it & they don't want to change their habit. M$ owns the market of computer science because of this & their products are not good, they're just easy to use.
This is why I say almost every person that uses windows is a M$ whore.
Anyway it was just a sarcasm with a little of the truth in it.

I don't know if Widows is the worst.Hackers and virus makers simply target windows OS because it's the most popular system.I am sure hackers can make viruses for Firefox and other browsers as well if they put their minds to it.

I started out with Nintendo, then went to the Playstations. I never had a Sega. I have no interest in the 360 because of the red ring of death stories..at one time the percentages of machines having those were way too high for a viable console in my opinion and I still don't trust the system.I was offered a 360 rather than having to wait for a Playstation 3 from my supplier and I chose to wait.

Peoples' opinions vary about games , particularly rpgs it seems.Some people prefer only jrpgs while some prefer western rpgs.I tend to like both.
I do believe the overall quality of Square's games has declined although whether that due to the mergers...some people says the games were better when it was Squaresoft..some blame so -called western influences.....some Wada's thirst for the quick buck..some the departure of Sakaguichi..and some just plain cynicism on the part of the fans.

I think it's a combination of all of those.

My guess is it's probably impossible for Square to produce a game we could all agree is a tour de force anyway.Someone still wouldn't like it.
FFXIII is just ok but not great.
A great FF game might always remain elusive for us.

Anyway, we're way off target.

Windows it's easy to hack because you can simply access to the root archives of the OS by simply clicking.

Here's an example from a simple virus.
Create an *.exe that only does this "erase C:\windows\system32"
That's it. There you have a virus for windows that fucked up the OS & it will never run again unless you repair it with an outside method. Like a boot CD with mutiple tools for reparing this (Hiren's Boot FTW).

It's not because it's popular, it's because it's easy & because it's easy, it's popular.

That's why it's no wonder that big companies like IBM use GNU/Linux distributions to build their servers.

and we'll see how well they perform and how well they sell.

I'll concede the point about windows being easy to make a virus for.

I've had to delete viruses from time to time from my home pc.

but we're way off topic.

anyone want to discuss FFXIII ? rotfl

I'm still motivated to finish it although I doubt I'll play it again.

Servers are not PC's, are not for personal usage, this is proffessional stuff, it's for their own usage in the company. They use Linux on their Servers because it's stable.

Anyway. Back to topic

:popcorn:

98% of the pepole that use Windows is because of ignorance.
Windows is the worse OS in the market, it's full of errors, programing a virus for windows is very simple & easy, it consumes a lot of hardware to function properly, it's expensive, but people still uses it, because they got used to it & they don't want to change their habit. M$ owns the market of computer science because of this & their products are not good, they're just easy to use.
This is why I say almost every person that uses windows is a M$ whore.

98%? - talk about exaggeration. There are people who simply don't want to switch due to various reasons - gaming is one of them. And just because people use Windows doesn't mean they actually gave their money to those soulless bastards for it.

98%? - talk about exaggeration. There are people who simply don't want to switch due to various reasons - gaming is one of them. And just because people use Windows doesn't mean they actually gave their money to those soulless bastards for it.



Anyway it was just a sarcasm with a little of the truth in it.

Yeah it was an exaggeration.

EDIT: I wasn't that wrong. I missed only by 7%.


As of October 2009, Windows had approximately 91% of the market share of the client operating systems for usage on the Internet.

So, yeah, this probably won't come as a surprise to very many, but well, I like it. I like it a lot for a number of reasons.

- Obviously, the graphics are fantastic, and that's true even if you're watching a standard definition television like am. Some truly beautiful landscapes and fantastic FMVs.
- On the whole, I found the story to be very solid and the characters quite likeable. Fang is favorite character and my usual party leader, Sazh is a close second. Vanille is pretty fun even with the accent problems and Lightning is decent, even though she reminds me a lot of Ashe from Final Fantasy XII in both appearance and personality. Hope irritated me at first, but he's all right at the end. And while Snow can be annoying, I don't dislike him.
- The battle system, I thought, was generally fun and fluid. Sure, it has its problems, but what FF battle system doesn't? On the whole, I think it's a lot less "broken" than many other Final Fantasy battle systems in terms of ways to game it to make it easy. And there were some definite challenges. Even with HP being restored after every battle, there were some that were very tough. To be honest, HP restoration after every battle just felt like the logical end of where they had been going with restoring HP at save points.
- There's a definite learning curve to this game. There were a lot of new and unfamiliar aspects. I'm looking forward to going through and replaying the entire thing, now that I have much more of an idea of what I'm doing and won't be stumble-bumbling around so much.
- Nice ending to the game. Short, but sweet.
- And, last thing for now, this game's chocobo system was a huge improvement over XII, even if you only get to ride chocobos in one area.

On the whole, I found the story to be very solid and the characters quite likeable.

What elements from the story made it a solid story? Furthermore, what elements from the character development made the characters likable? I agree we may have different points of view on likable characters, but I am curious.


The battle system, I thought, was generally fun and fluid.

I was wondering if you really thought that because of it's simplicity and easy (Spamming X, with no real choice essentially in the sense that Sparkstrike = Waterstrike = Whateverstrike, just don't use the 1 thing it's resistant to which it automatically doesn't use with Libra) or because it actually required some strategy greater than a basic paradigm shift.

There's story there, but only the characters are allowed to know it :P

My main motivation for reviving this thread (it had sunk down for once) was that I was playing FF4, and I got to the Mom Bomb Battle, and when she blew up, only like Yang and Rosa were left alive. At max battle speed and active mode, I literally had to bust my ass and not make make one mistake to not only keep the two alive, but also to get my party revived and standing to get max xp, while getting Yang ready. It required a shit ton of concentration and it hit me.

Fights like that, where I am relying on muscle memory to help me survive and the deep satisfaction I got from pwning that hoe, is something I have not seen in FF13. It's such a passive experience there for me at least. I was just curious what Agent saw in it.

Did you fight Mark #64? I haven't either, but I'd imagine it requires more effort than normal fights.

Then again, I think normal fights need much more than repeated pressing of the X button (like hitting triangle and L1 :p)

That's true, Dragon; XIII is quite lax on the actual interactive gameplay aspect. It's fun, yes, and I did like what of it I played, but . . . there's very little challenge. Even Final Fantasy IV's first boss battle can catch an unwary player off-guard.

Then again, I think normal fights need much more than repeated pressing of the X button (like hitting triangle and L1 )

Rofl my point exactly. L1 and Triangle, then spam X.

I'm kinda busy right now, but I promise I'll give a more detailed response on why I liked what I did later.

UNFORGIVABLEIWANTARESPONSERIGHTNOW.

rofl.

Pretty sure XIII will always be a game that people either love or hate. Exactly the reason why I never bother posting in this forum, anymore.

I don't love it or hate it. I like it, though. :)

I am currently on a Crusade to win a opinion based argument on the internet. DONT WORRY I GOT THIS.

I'll stand by your side on it :)

LOL at the "determined to win an opinion-based argument." Anyway, I'll start with the characters, though I'm going to be repeating some stuff I already said over in the characters thread. Of the main cast, there was nobody that I actively hated and I didn't dislike anyone except Snow at times and sometimes Hope. Fang is my favorite character. I love pretty much everything about her, from Bahamut being her summon, to her general appearance, to her personality. She is very down-to-business, but she also obviously cares strongly for Vanille - her statement that she would "tear down the sky" to save Vanille - very powerful. Sazh was my second-favorite character - he provided a lot of good entertaining moments, he's a father and he keeps a Chocobo Chick in his afro. Lightning was all right, though she reminded me a lot of Ashe from Final Fantasy XII in both appearance and general attitude. Vanille's the type of character I would normally like the best, but for some reason I just found myself connecting to other characters more. I did like the sound of her voice and general appearance, though the constant accent shifts were a bit weird. Hope really aggravated me for a while with his inability to spit out what was bothering him and his revenge-crazed plotline, but I thought he eventually shaped up nicely. And then, there's Snow. While there were things to like about him, somebody, I forget who, put it best: "Snow Villiers is a teenaged boy trapped in the body of a 21 year old."


Battle system: Okay, this is what a lot of people seem to have complaints about, so here we go. The general idea here seems to be that most people just did Paradigm Shifts and then hit the "win" button and it was easy. Maybe I'm just different, but that wasn't the experience for me. Things I liked about the battle system:

- The summons were a major upgrade from the total junk that was Final Fantasy XII summons on the whole. They actually supported your characters in battle while holding their own and Gestalt Mode could be very useful. Plus, you could usually only summon once per battle, which added a challenge factor.
- Figuring out the Paradigm Shifts for certain bosses could be really helpful. Do you want to exploit status weaknesses, do you need healing, etc.? Also, maybe I'm the only one, but I didn't always use the auto battle. I went into the abilities and technicks menus and made specific use of certain ones based on the situation.
- I mentioned this in my earlier post, but the Crystarium caps, etc., I felt really helped to keep the battle system from being "broken" as compared with other titles. Like in Final Fantasy XII, it was ridiculously easy to farm LP, but in Final Fantasy XIII you generally have to work for your upgrades.
- And there were definitely some tough optional bosses in this game. In fact, I often found many of the regular monsters more of a challenge than some of the boss fights.


The story: I can see the criticism, but again, maybe that's because I played the game differently. I have heard from several people on another board that they never, ever even touched the Datalogs. I read all of them.

Oh, and one other thing I don't think I mentioned in my previous post, but I've grown very attached to this game's soundtrack, including both of the chocobo themes, almost all of the battle themes, the character themes and numerous location themes.

Okay, Fang is by far the hottest animated character I have ever seen. I'd put out for her ;) .

I read on Final Fantasy Wiki that in initial development, Fang was male.

I read on Final Fantasy Wiki that in initial development, Fang was male.

Why am I not surprised haha.

I actually didn't read the datalogs either. One day when I was randomly bitching about how Sahz can magically fly these planes, my girlfriend was like "oh he's a pilot. it says so in the datalog." BAM, thanks for clearing that up. My main GRIPE with that is why couldn't you tell me? Why do I have to read the datalogs to figure integral stuff out about the characters? I obviously read the datalogs after that but I hated how the cahracter development was done through those static notebooks rather than through the game itself. Yeah, anyone can figure out that Sahz is a pilot, but if I can't figure it out explicitly without reading a bio, then wtf? That was especially the issue for me about the story in this game. It was through these stupid ass datalogs. I keep whining about how you don't know the story through the game. Technically, if you read the datalogs, the objectives are written there very clearly. That's not what I want from a game though. I'm watching these people do shit, not reading a book. It seems to me a faulty design idea.

For the battle system, I found the Eidolion pretty lackluster in that it was more flash than actual substance. I had a more involved time in FFX, when they did a similar role and you could control them and use their spells. In FF13, what players tend to do is watch the gestalt gauge come near zero then go Transformer mode (i loved the animations dont get me wrong) and then spam more flashy buttons. Again, more flash than actual substance for me.
Furthermore, about the auto battle feature. I don't mind that you had to go through the menus and even I did that sometimes. But you need to pick 4 skills and after you pick it the first time, you literally repeat them until the pattern makes you switch. The main thing is that the 4 or 5 moves is unnecessary. It was only there for show and you know it. Lightning attacking 5 times is gimmicky. You could literally have one attack command and have the animation strike 5 times. If there was some strategy involved, persay using blitz on a group (which takes 2 bars) and then autoattacking single targets, I would understand the need for this. This never gets fully utilised. It's another gimmick where it's just not worth it and its easier to just blitz twice.
The conclusion is that the problem I had with the battle system is that I felt it was more gimmicky and not really filled with real substance. Lightning doing backflips shooting her gun got old after the 50th time. We get it, this game is pretty. The battle system is also confusing in that when two people are simultaneously beating on an enemy, a shit ton of numbers are flying everywhere, explosions are filling the screen and it's just a massive confused mess. The awesomeness of Lightning jumping 300 feet in the sky got old. You miss the real substance of combat to this airy shit.

For the characters themselves, I don't know why people complain about Vanille's voice. Go listen to her on the Japanese track, she sounds fine. I was more interested in her than anyone else really. Her and Fang. They had some mystery behind their stories and some bond that no other characters shared. I was pretty hopeful when I met Vanille. Unfortunately as time went on, as you said, Hope, Snow and Lightning failed so hard on all fronts. In combination with the need to read datalogs, these characters rushed to do their thang on screen while the real story went on in a notebook, preventing any real experience.

In my opinion Agent, FF13 could have given you the experience you were looking for because you read the datalogs. Now, I ask you if you had not read the datalogs, how would you rate the character and story development/pacing? If you say "well datalogs are part of the game so read them" then answer me if that is a legitimate design element in what the designers called a "fast paced game to set the theme."

I read on Final Fantasy Wiki that in initial development, Fang was male.

Yeah but then she turned into a hot chick :D !

Okay, I can't say for sure, but I seem to recall that it was addressed in the game's script that Sazh is a pilot. I could be wrong, though, and I wish I could check, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a script for this game on GameFAQs, or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe I'll make one. In any case, I find this complaint a bit surprising, given that I hear so often relating to television shows that there's too much exposition, that they wish they would just get on with the show instead of painfully explaining everything. It's almost like in this case, people wanted the characters to walk up to each other and be like "hi, I'm a pilot," etc. etc. etc., yada yada yada. Furthermore, the Kingdom Hearts games made heavy use of journals and I never heard this complaint in relation to them, and there was also a lot of information in Final Fantasy XII that was only available through journals.


If I hadn't read the datalogs, I would still give generally high marks for the development/pacing, for the most part. It's not like there weren't weak areas. But I wouldn't say I wouldn't be able to understand what was happening if I didn't read them.


Re: Eidolons - so it sounds to me like you wanted to be able to have direct control over the Eidolon, rather than controlling the character while the eidolon fights alongside the character. Fair point, I guess, but X was the only game that gave you direct control over the eidolon anyway. And the Gestalt gauge was more than just flash - there were ways to manipulate it.


As for Vanille's voice, I really don't care what it sounds like in Japanese. If her dub wasn't up to scratch, that's still a legitimate criticism.

ignoring the lack of story and poor characters and stuff, the biggest let down for me about this game is the total lack of replayability. I have no motivation to play the game from scratch again. There will be nothing new to discover. I think back to ff8 and 9 when the games were fun, and full of hidden places and sub-plots and side quests. They have real replayability.Even 10 and 12 have replayability. I would rather play ff9 again for about the 15th time then play ff13 for the 2nd time. I still think they should just have made ff13 as a movie instead of a game. Theres hardly any 'game' to it anyway. Theres no excitement or fear like with the other games, you walk into a new area, healths a bit low, should i heal, or leave and train before attempting this new area? Theres no point with that kind of thinking in ff13 because you heal full after every fight, and even if you lose, you get put right back next to the monster! Totally pointless.

Even though Kingdom hearts made heavy use of journals, you're pretty much with Sora since day 1. He doesn't know any more than you do and whatever the journals deliver isn't extra storyline that the game doesn't show you as you go through the game. I'm obviously referring to KH 1 here. In Birth by sleep, Roxas actually writes in his journal, but that again is a different use, where after you spend a day, you can read more about his personal thoughts.

In FF13, there was a good amount of inconsistency in the datalog as well. For example, Sazh boarded the train in order to deal with the Fal'Cie himself, suggesting a headstrong personality. That's something we don't see from the first minute of the game. The game shows him to be relatively cowardly. So despite what the datalog stated, this isn't what would be naturally expected.

Basically forget all that shit Agent. Although I didn't finish FF13 because I just couldn't handle the game anymore, I just 5 minutes ago, read spoilers about the end of the game. So let me tell you now that my impressions are WOW, that is pretty fucking cool. And I assume you beat the game but the information I just got is pretty fucking mindblowing. I am not going to ruin anything but remember when I said:


I was more interested in her (Vanille) than anyone else really. Her and Fang. They had some mystery behind their stories and some bond that no other characters shared. I was pretty hopeful when I met Vanille.

This was BEFORE I read the spoiler. What does this show you? The way they presented those 2 characters, for me at least, was interesting enough to play the game. The shit that happened with Vanille and Fang where their memories slowly returned to them was pretty spicy. There is a lot of mystery and intrigue and that's GOOD. That's what was interesting. What's the problem then? What I couldn't fucking handle (and something that the datalogs dont fucking fix) is how shitty Snow, Lightning and Hope are. They are ridiculously 2D. They are not fleshed out, they are impulsive and after reading the end game datalogs, whoopedowhoop Snow is the fucking same. Lightning, again, 0 development. Hope seems to find a mission and follow it like a retard. There's no STORY there. There is no CHANGE there. I hoped to god something interesting would happen, and I'd learn something mindblowing about their pasts, but no, they are typical archetypes that follow these to the letter. Again, Fang and Vanille don't really apply here, so do they make the game? Especially 30 hours in? Is it worth it anymore? Is it a good thing when people go "Hey it took 30 hours for the game to tell me this?" Here is where I am going to say, it's pretty much nothing left for me to try to convince other than it's up to you to decide to stick it through with these guys. Add to that, that Vanille is not with the story half the time, and Fang is introduced late, I'm left with a stale taste in my mouth.

Dragon, one thing I can say for sure is that if you have that stale taste, there's probably nothing I can say that can help you get rid of it. Still, I don't say how you can say that none of the other characters other than Fang & Vanille had no development. Yes, Hope is a bit wacky, but he eventually realizes that what he's doing is wrong and turns himself around, becoming someone who is determined to learn about the world around him and not just on impulse. Also, I do try to keep in mind that boy did just watch his mother die and that could unhinge anyone. Lightning - she starts the game thoroughly angry at Snow and convinced that Serah is dead. By the end of the game, she is completely on Snow's side, furthermore, she realizes that there is hope for Serah, and for someone like her too. And Snow? Well, he never quite changes entirely, but at least he admits that there were times when he was a real ass, etc.


And Sazh, I'm not sure what your complaint is there. You're suggesting a conflict between actions that I think is maybe sometimes suggested through is spoken behavior, but doesn't actually act that way. It's true that sometimes Sazh does play the role of the coward through his words. But he does board the train. And when he could take the easy way out and commit suicide, he doesn't go through with it. Keep in mind also that he's a father and if he's doing for Dajh, that's something that could override a tendency that would otherwise be cowardly.


Anyway, since I'm not sure I mentioned it yet, here were the problems that I had with the game:


- There was a long portion of the game where it seemed like your characters had no purpose or goal, other than "we gotta escape." That was problematic, I agree.
- The text on the screens was too small and many of the backgrounds didn't work with the text.
- Item usage in battle could be very confusing.
- Navigating the portals in the Annex area at the end of the game was a pain-in-the-ass - you had to angle the camera in order to get the option to warp to appear.

I don't feel like getting too involved, I just saw that this thread was active still so I decided to check it out. I thought the characters in FF13 were pretty dull too. Also, I didn't think Hope was nearly as rattled as he should have been. He watched his mother die and his reaction was basically :O and :mad:. I wanted some more raw emotion, some more crying. The guy should have been a wreck, but he wasn't.

People react to stuff like that in different ways. There's no one "standard" reaction for something like witnessing your mother dying.

People react to stuff like that in different ways. There's no one "standard" reaction for something like witnessing your mother dying.

qft

People react to stuff like that in different ways. There's no one "standard" reaction for something like witnessing your mother dying.
He was obviously very attached to her and he barely even grieved her death. He was just angry at Snow, and once he got over that he was pretty much over the whole thing.

You know, I have to agree, that's not an unreasonable criticism. I can only offer the following in trying to answer it:

1. Vanille told him to "face it later" and he did. He's got tons of crap being thrown at him, and it's just too much for one person to take in. So he either pushes it all aside or channels it into another outlet (anger at Snow) or it overwhelms him.
2. As said, he channels that anger at Snow, but eventually finds that he can't go through with his plan of revenge. So where does that leave him? Obviously, he's still crushed by his mother's death, but at the moment he's also being right in the middle of being hunted by a huge military force and having an awkward reunion with his Dad.
3. There is no letup - even if he wants to just sit down and have a good cry, he's traveling to another world with a group of people who are like him, refugees searching desperately to escape the cursed situation that they're in and also possibly try to find some way to save the world.


Damn. Now I'm sitting her performing psychoanalysis on a video game character.

Did anyone else laugh when they lost a fight the first time when they have snow as the party leader?? I actually lold so hard i dropped the controller when he yells 'sarehhhhhhhhhh!!'. Just proves how little i believed in him or his relationship. The problem i had with hope was he was always the worst fighter in the game, if anyone was gonna fall during a battle it would be him, so annoying; Rikku was the same in 10 but that didnt bother me cos i liked her!

The biggest problem for me is to try to get your weapons and accessories upgraded.I finally got a wand upgraded to 100 and broke it to get 3 trapezehedrons.Now I have to do it all again ? sheesh.

They should have made things a bit simpler as well as making gil easier.

Trapezehedron is a drop from Adamantoise. That's my recommendation. If you use the Catalog items, you can greatly increase the drop rate.

I've tried.So far nothing or my party gets killed.
It was easier to just raise the gil and buy one although it took forever.
I might try again...it's easier than raising another wand to break.Maybe I'll get lucky for once.

You just need the right strategy. The best strategy I've found is to have Vanille summon Hecaton, which immediately disables the Adamantoise's legs. Then hit the Admantoise with every status ailment you can and buff up Vanille. Once that's all done, have her repeatedly cast Death until the Adamantoise is killed. If Hecaton is auto-dismissed, then just keep trying to with Death, or if you have a really strong party, you can alternate between Saboteur, Commando, Commando and Commando, Commando, Commando. Do the paradigm shift while Vanille is in the process of casting Death for maximum damage.