I've just completed FF12. I wanted to give a list of my thoughts and feelings on the game. I also want to address a few things I've heard argued about even since the game was released (though i just now understand what they are about).

Initial Thoughts:

1. The combat system is great. It took me off-guard at first, being so different from all teh other FFs I've played, but I think it's really more immersive than any of the others I've played.
2. Hardest storyline boss all game for me was The Elder Wyrm. Damn you status effects! Though if the optional Demon Wall counts, I also beat it after a while. I mainly fought it to get the Demonbane and to practice learning how to use Quickenings.

Now, onto the real meat of the topic.

The Story:

It's good. The best FF story yet? Hell no. In maybe the Top 3? Yes. While there's not nearly enough character development, the actual plot of the game is very intriguing. Not many twists and turns but I don't think it tried to have them. It certainly didn't seem like they were trying to keep the fact Gabranth is Basch's brother a secret.

Also I like the trend of public speaking with the villains now. Edea(Ultimecia) iN VIII was happy to give a delightuflly Evil Speech but then Seymour came along and was introduced by giving a friendship speech. Vayne did the same thing and even if I hadn't known then, I would have known from that that he was the Big Bad.

Really, the Empire itself was a far more interesting antagonist than Vayne. All the scenes with The Judges and Emperor kept me hooked.

The Ending:

I had more trouble getting to the bosses than the bosses themselves. The ending was decent I suppose. Nothing too unexpected but I wish it had gone on longer. Would have been more morable had Balthier and Fran actually died.

My Favorite Scenes:

1. The entire bit at the end of the Pharos with Gabranth as well as Cid's and Reddas' deaths.

2. Judge Bergan's crazy speech

3. Vaan and Ashe in Jahara

4. I'll just be general and say every other scene with The Judges.

5. Balthier's and Fran's Introduction

6. Zalera's Introduction

My Favorite Characters:

1. Gabranth - The plot did a much better job setting him up as the antagonist than Vayne. Vayne has actually a very minimal role in the plot when screentime is considered. Gabranth is just more interesting as well. I just kept waiting for his and Basch's moment to finally confront each other.

2. Balthier - What can I say? He's Balthier. It's like if you put James Bond and Jack Sparrow in a blender and created Pure Awesome. It helsp he undergoes some good development what with hsi father and all.

3. Ashe - Surprised me how much i actually liked her. She was quite the stick-up-her-ass bitch at first but she gets a lot more lax with time and I started to like her.

Now to address the aforementioned controversial topic:

Vaan:

Oh Vaan. Even before XII came out I remember people getting on the boards to rant about you. Then the game came out and most of them still ranted about you. Only now they threw in "he's not even the main character!" Well perhaps not. But he's definitely the second most important member of the party. It would go Ashe then Vaan then Balthier then Basch than Fran then Penelo.

I don't care what people say about Basch "should have been" the hero. The fact is, he's not. In fact, from the moment Vossler is killed up until the ending of the Pharos, Basch is completely worthless storyline wise. He had no reason to exist for all those dungeons and hours.

Also, as for Vaan vs. Tidus, there is no comparison. None. Tidus is an abomination; a mindless blackhole who serves to suck all enjoyment and intelligence out of everything near him. Tidus is what happens when you give a character -too much- personality. Vaan, in contrast, had just enough personality to be interesting. He had his dream of being a sky pirate which evolved into him showing he was just trying to distract himself from the truth of Reks' death. Vaan is just a normal kid. He's...average. not great, not terrible.

Voice-Acting:

1. Judge Zargabaath - I just call him Judge Kain.

2. Reddas

3. Balthier

4. Gabranth

5. Dr. Cid

6. Ashe

Favorite Music:

1. YouTube - Final Fantasy XII Music - Upheaval (Imperial Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJvkGlfFNY)

2. YouTube - Final Fantasy XII Music - Time for a Rest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsrRtsrQHxQ) This one may be unusual for some but I think every dungeon should have a satisfying conclusion theme. It's all well and good to have a big epic boss battle but I want something nice and peaceful to show me all that Hell I just went through as worth it. When i first heard this theme in the Tomb of Raithwall, I felt that peace and satisfaction.

3. YouTube - Final Fantasy XII Music - The Garamscythe Waterway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpDVXJBzC_g) It's amazing that a lot of the lesser significant dungeons in this game have the best music... This music would make you think you were off to some distant battle instead of fighting rats in a sewer. This music is the music to my most hated level in thIS game. i got lost in the Waterway so many times and I probably would have gone crazy and broken the game had it not been for this great tune keeping me calm.

4. YouTube - Penelo's Theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIdn6uy4GE4) Hey after all the big important and mystical music, how abou a cute little theme for a cute little girl? Penelo was in my main party from the second I could have her... Sexiest chick in FF12.

5. YouTube - Final Fantasy XII Music - Seeking Power (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQghaLIt_sU)

6.YouTube - Final Fantasy XII Music - Esper Battle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqD1GsdnHBk)
.

Conclusion:

In my personal rankings of FF games, where to put 12.... Well, none will ever beat FFIX that much I am certain of. But I did have more fun with this story and world than either FFVII or X. I suppose overall VII and X had a better, more well-developed cast but well-developed doesn't mean memorable or likable. Apart froM Fran, I liked the party very much. While with FFX, I just liked Auron and Rikku.

So yeah, I think I'll place this as my second favorite FF game ever. Well dne FF12.

So those are a quick draft of my thoughts on the game after just beating it. i'll probably think of more.

So anyone here share my thoughts or disagree with them?

You know you can actually skip Elder Wyrm and beat the game without fighting it... exit the jungle to the Feywood and from there go to Paramina Rift (running from everything if your level is too low).

I actually found most of the storyline bosses to be a joke, in fact most of what I liked about this game was all of the optional stuff.

The plot certainly had a lot of potential, but it wasn't developed very well imo. It didn't flow naturally you know (I don't know how else to describe it). This can be justified by the fact that there were two writers. The first one stopped writing because of some issues (family is most likely from what I've read).

For the most part I found it confusing, and while I do agree with you that the scenes with the judges were awesome, for the most part I didn't know what the hell was going on really. FFXII is a great game, but not really because of the story. It took me plenty of playthroughs to grasp the storyline well to be honest :P

I also couldn't get into the story until a few playthroughs.

I have to say though, if it weren't for the optional stuff, and you just played going where the story told you to, this game would be way too short and boring, for me at least.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed FFXII, but all I really see it as is the ultimate challenge to keep a completionist busy, with the story just being the icing on the cake. Some of the optional bosses were among the hardest bosses in any video game I've ever played, so epic that I sometimes even found myself keeling over sweaty after having beat one which I was at for an hour.

But the music is also amazing and underrated. I'm actually glad you included Garamsythe Waterway in your list, that's actually one of my favorites as well and never heard it mentioned outside of soundtrack lists.

My top tracks consist of (in no particular order)

Rabanastre
Theme of the Empire
Rebellion
The Beginning of the End
The Garamsythe Waterway
Seeking Power
Naivety
The Feywood
Chocobo XII
To the Place of the Gods
The Sochen Cave Palace
An Imminent Threat (Henne Mines)

and Clash on the Big Bridge if it counts. Then again this would be my favorite version of it.

I've always thought FF12 was very weak, I just didn't get into it. The storyline was very bland, the only main character I thoroughly liked was Balthier. If I play it again it's only because I didn't do everything on the game, and I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

I see why you like it, I just don't agree, I think it's by far the most bland of the modern FF games.

I think the problem with FF12 is that the story felt like it was secondary.

I love every single aspect of XII except its story, because of exactly what Tanis said.

I think the plot/story was good. The problem I think was the pacing, VAST maps to explore, Countless sidequests (which in someway was good). It was easy to get sidtracked to explore sidequests/level up/hunt down rare creatures etc, that made the game seem slow paced. If you just play through ignoring the sidequests and the rare creatures etc and level up here and there for a reasonable time, the plot and story do progress at a reasonable rate. But like any FF sucker, I love my sidequests :)

this is one of the best stories in video games overall. i don't understand the complaints about it. it doesn't try too hard, the characters are subtle and dynamic, and you never feel choked with drama which seems to be the replacement for proper plots nowadays. like above poster says, pacing might've been an issue of the plot, but this game is huge.

I think the plot/story was good. The problem I think was the pacing, VAST maps to explore, Countless sidequests (which in someway was good). It was easy to get sidtracked to explore sidequests/level up/hunt down rare creatures etc, that made the game seem slow paced. If you just play through ignoring the sidequests and the rare creatures etc and level up here and there for a reasonable time, the plot and story do progress at a reasonable rate. But like any FF sucker, I love my sidequests :)

I think you're spot on, most FF fans love their sidequests and are perfectionists, so the vast maps didn't help your typical fan, because we'd just explore the entirety of the map looking for random boxes and rare monsters. FF12 was more sandbox-esque than any other FF game (unless you might want to count the MMORPGs).


this is one of the best stories in video games overall. i don't understand the complaints about it. it doesn't try too hard, the characters are subtle and dynamic, and you never feel choked with drama which seems to be the replacement for proper plots nowadays. like above poster says, pacing might've been an issue of the plot, but this game is huge.

Disagree, the characters were very, very bland. How can a character be subtle and dynamic? The words almost contrast eachother; subtle being the more appropriate word.

The main problem I think regarding the character development is that it seems the developers themselves fell in love with certain characters (Fran/Balthier) the same as we did so spent more time on them. Vaan and Penelo I believe were added VERY late in the games development so it could show some form of "whatever" when it came to fleshing them out. There was a dynamic it seems, Fran/Balthier...Ashe/Basch, worked perfectly, even a Vaan/Penelo seems more strained than the others...The late addition to Vaan/Penelo in the games production may have indeed been what contributed to the plot/story becoming grinding as the majority of the game had been finished when they were added and so therefore would have to retroactivly fit them into what could have been a very tight and concise story.

Possibly, it was a bad move to quickly think of Vaan, I know why they did it, but it was so late in development that it really stained the game. You don't think of your main character for your game on a napkin.

i mean dynamic as in the characters changed and developed over time. that's how i was always taught about the word dynamic in terms of literary characters. i don't mean exciting or eccentric

i mean dynamic as in the characters changed and developed over time. that's how i was always taught about the word dynamic in terms of literary characters. i don't mean exciting or eccentric

Damn those double meaning words :p

But who changes? I don't really see much change in FF12 characters, not really. Possibly Basche, and most definitely Gabranth, I can't think of many.

well, the way i saw it
vaan goes from wanting vengeance to realizing that vengeance won't bring his brother back, at least that's what i got from his big speech to ashe the night at the village
ashe also begins to second guess her own actions so much to that she totally approaches the acquisition of power in a different light by the end of the game
larsa's perception of the empire changes as all the plot gets uncovered, and his perception of the empire is a large part of his character (maybe one of the main reasons he was even in the game to begin with)

Hmmm fair points, but I just felt that the changes you mention aren't more special than in previous games. But you made some fair points. :)

FFXII is the offline MMO imo.

Ya know despite my grief with parts of the game, I was kind of pissed that the 'Zodiac' version never made it state side.

That was the problem I had with FF X. By the time you get really decent EVERYONE can hit for 99999, and all have the same abilities. Same with 12, Everyone eventually had ALL the same abilities which can take away some of the challange. I don't mind it when you can get a few cross over abilities, that would be fun. But why would say, someone like Balthier use vast magics, (Guns could have been way more powerful in my opinion).

It just felt like too much of a dungeon crawl with little bits of story added in here and there. The battle system is great though.

I couldn't get into the story and the character relationships and backstories were lacking. I mean, you have great, deep character connections in the previous games (Cecil/Kain, Cecil/Golbez, Locke/Celes, Edgar/Sabin, Shadow/Relm, Cloud/Aeris, Cloud/Tifa, Squall/Rinoa, Zidane/Dagger...you get the picture.) FFXII didn't have any of that. It didn't really have anything deep. But it was all still decent. Plus, all the hunts and the rest of the sidequest stuff and the locations and graphics more than made up for a weak story. I do like this game. Far better than FFXIII.

I wouldn't exactly say Cecil and Golbez had a really good connection.
...

Since my initial thoughts on the game I've played it through a couple more times.

FFXII is not a character-driven story. The plot is happening far away from our heroes. Most of the scenes in Archades are what really matters.

This is why a lot of people bawww about nothing happening or there beign no character development. Both these claims are shockingly false but it's easy to see why some people think they're true.

As much as I love the game I will easily agree that the pacing was phenomenally bad. You'll get lost in doing some random shit and by the time you're getting back to the main story stuff you'll have long since stopped caring about it.

I also like to compare FFXII's pacing to a very slow moving train with each segment of the story clanking and jangling along. Notice how Vaan is the focal chaacter up until the Tomb of Raithwall and how Basch fades into obscurity for most of the game after Vossler dies. Or how Balthier is pretty irrelevant up until you head for Archades which is halfway into the game.

I will not blame anyone if they can't get into this storytelling but I've managed to overcome it and appreciate the story anyway. I love the theme of overcoming your past and how both the heroes and villains are struggling with it. Most of the cast do in fact develop and it's usually done in great fashion. See the peak of Ashe's and Vaan's character development at the top of the Pharos.

Speaking of which, I also think the Pharos might be my favorite FF final dungeon.

I can't agree that the story is not character driven - its pretty much all about the characters. The change in directors means that when the main story starts to really get going in the second half, the game suddenly found itself without its writer - who was the one man who knew what was supposed to be happening in the plot. Its like if J Michael Stracynski had left halfway through Babylon 5 and just left a few scribbled notes on what was supposed to happen next for a new guy to try and make sense of.

The game sets up a great story, but when it comes time to deliver, when its time for the main villains to really make their move etc, it all gets a bit muddled and rushed. This is because the new director didn't write the story, and was playing catch up, trying to sort out how and where to go with the story. I'm sure the departing director gave him the basic gist of what was supposed to happen, but it still left an unfinished story with characters not his own, in the hands of a new director.

So a lot of stuff gets pushed aside. The whole thing with Vaan's brother (and indeed Vaan's entire connection to the story) gets scaled right back, the connection between Ashe and Vaan (presumably a Star Warsesque Luke and Leia style thing), is almost completely abandoned, aside from one short conversation in Jahara, and the scene at the top of the Pharos. Basically the game implies they will be sharing top billing with the fact they both see 'ghosts' when around the stones, and with that dream sequence where Vaan and Ashe are standing in the ruins of Nabudis (which is an optional location, and neither of them recognise it from their dream when you go there). But the new director decides not to bother with any of that, and just lets it all slide.

There's also the odd fact that Gabranth is appointed as Larssa's bodyguard, and his redemption is supposed to come because he considers him to be a good and honourable master as opposed to the prideful and obsessed Vayne. Which is great, except that you never actually see Gabranth with Larssa - ever! He is not accompanying Larssa when you meet the Gran Kiltias, he isn't with him in the various scenes involving the Judges contemplating a coup against Vayne etc etc. He is also alone when he confronts your party at the Pharos - so when exactly is he supposed to have built up this respect for Larssa, given that he is never actually in a scene with him until the very last sequence of the game?

I have no problem with the first half of this game. I consider it amongst the very, very best storytelling of this whole series, and the bulld up promised a truly great and epic story. But the change in directors was devastating. And I don't blame the new guy, because the story wasn't his and the characters weren't his, so unless a miracle happened, him coming in halfway through was always going to be tough.

Even with its problems, 12 is still probably my favourite in the series. I only recently played it all the way through for the first time and really liked how little melodrama there was.

I absolutely hated it when it first came out, though.

I have no problem with the first half of this game. I consider it amongst the very, very best storytelling of this whole series, and the bulld up promised a truly great and epic story. But the change in directors was devastating. And I don't blame the new guy, because the story wasn't his and the characters weren't his, so unless a miracle happened, him coming in halfway through was always going to be tough.

I consider the Intro and the Tutorial(The Whole Prologue) the Best Storytelling on the Series. From that point until you get to meet Ondore is exactly the Opposite.

But after that, I like how it turned out. Of Course with some reservations. Which many people have already pointed out.

I don't know about that - the opening sections (after the excellent into as you mentioned), are very slow, especially when you just have Vaan and Penelo trawling about the Giza Plains etc. But I think it picks up big time from the Garamscythe Waterways - specifically when you get Fran and Balthier to form your first proper party. I really enjoy that level, and it gets even better when you meet Ashe too.

The prison and the lightworks aren't handled as well as I'd like (as the AI for Basch when he is a guest and his lack of equipment are very irritating, causing him to die constantly, when he's actually one of the hardest characters - not the best way to reintroduce the character!). And the soldiers armied with guns in the prison can be a real pain too.

I really love Ba'Gamnan and his villainous cronies, so I really enjoyed the whole jaunt into the mines and the scrap with the pirates. I could definately have lived without the 'Vaan pretends to be Basch' sequence, but other than that, I really enjoyed that section of the game, and it snowballs quickly into the superb jail break on the Leviathan. By that point, FF12 is on a real roll, and is part of why I love it so much.

I mean, Judge Ghis is in that section, and he's an awesome character! But yeah, I agree totally with Fight in that whilst I wasn't sure about FF12 when I bought it, I came to regard it as one of the very best Final Fantasys. (I got into it pretty quickly actually, but after the intro, that bit where you're just knocking about with Vaan and Penelo is a real pain barrier to be overcome!)

I still get the shakes remembering the epic, epic fight I had with Yiazmat. Took me a whole afternoon, but I finally got the swine in the end. 50 million HP - 50 frickin million!

I've said that because I mean c'mon.

After the Epic, extreme, hardcore action and Dialogue. Your Character dies after seeing a full fledged backstabbing scene.

Then, the Hero is presented fighting 3 rats on a sewer...

It's like having frantic wild sex and then you're obliged to stop to have soup for dinner and forced to drink the soup with a fork instead of a spoon.

That's why I say the game picks up again when you finally meet Ondore, because that's when things get interesting again.

Well, I don't agree. I think the game picks up as soon as you recruit Balthier and Fran, see the rebel incursion against Vayne, meet Ashe in the sewers and embark on the rescue attempt for Penelo. I think the game has a very strong first half indeed - just not the very, very start (after the intro, but before the meeting of Balthier and Fran is deathly slow).

Now that you mention it, the very opening (with Reks) is told very well. It's fast-paced, dramatic, active, and even though you know your character's just a rookie, he's motivated to fight for his country, and because of certain circumstances, he's teamed up with older, experienced, tough, high-ranking soldiers. You get to see the power Basch can wield when he does his Quickening, and you feel like you're fighting with the real movers and shakers of the world. Even though Reks dies, he witnesses (what he thinks is) a betrayal, a scene where all that he's fought for has been undermined because of his supposed ally, a guy who has helped you and led you through the combat system. When Reks dies, the player feels that something powerful has just happened.

Then it abruptly switches to a scene in a sewer where Vaan is fighting rats. When I first played it, I recognized the jarring transition, but I just accepted this. As the player, you know you're shifting to a new character and a new situation, and the serious tone has been lifted to a much "lighter" one. The story continues to a scene on the street where Vaan is stealing a coinpurse from a city guard and getting criticized by his nagging female friend; essentially, a scene showing him as a streetrat (his last name is even Ratsbane, and the vermin imagery is very apropos; the wikipedia entry describes him as a street urchin). But despite a complete 180 degree turn in pacing, there is actually a structural reason for it. The bright sky and city, the playful music, and the juvenile behavior contributes to a completely different outlook on the political turmoil, from a perspective of a young soldier on the battlefield to a young adult orphan who feels powerless to fight for his ideals. Vaan wishes he could do something to drive the Archadians out, and he fights the only way in which he knows he can get away with it. He takes out his frustrations on the rats causing distress in the waterway. The rats in this opening scene are a reflection of Vaan himself; in the beginning, they're just a mild nuisance, but leave them ignored for too long and they can do some real damage, even take out a house and drive the inhabitants out. Similarly, he is ineffective at being anything other than a nuisance at first, but with his companions and experience he is able to help drive the Archadians out of Rabanastre and restore the rightful queen to her throne.

The parallels to Star Wars in the opening are impossible to ignore. Recall Star Wars: IV. A New Hope, which begins with a battle where the real movers and shakers (Darth Vader and Leia) are fighting for their own sides. Leia, although she doesn't engage in physical combat, undermines the Empire by sending two drone robots with the Death Star's structural blueprints and a message for help into space. Then we see the robots out in a desert in a comedic scene where C3PO is overly dramatic in complaining about how they're lost, while R2D2 makes more or less wisecracks (if memory serves me right, it's been a long time since I've seen it). The imagery is strikingly similar: a desolate spaceship where the dead bodies of the Rebellion abound (analogous to the dark, body-strewn corridors of the opening of FFXII), shifting abruptly to the bright, sandy, more primitive and worry-free Tatooine (analogous to Rabanastre). Also remember the opening role of Luke, who felt resentment toward the Empire but was too young and unable to fight back.

When I said the tone shifts to a much lighter one, I intentionally neglected to say something. The tone is lighter, but the undertones are much stronger. Rabanastre has been overtaken by Archadia, and this is the first time we see innocent civilians being harassed by the Empire. Despite the lighter air (again, thanks to imagery, music, and stage action), the undercurrents of hatred are much stronger, and the extent to which we see aggression against both Rabanastrans and Archadians is great. This is what makes it so bizarre when we see Rabanastrans applauding Vayne's speech, and why we actually side ideologically with Vaan when he voices his own meek opinion to Penelo.

I won't go into much more detail, suffice it to say that the very opening, with Reks, is the story's background. It happened in the past, and the transition to Vaan marks the present. But the transition in pacing is also used, I believe, to make a more emphatic mark when the action finally gets going. You can't start off with Vaan going balls out against Archadia because then there would be no character development. Just as Luke had to grow from a farmer to a Jedi, so too did Vaan have to mature from a hopeful streetrat to a sky pirate.

I have no problem with that - its just that the pace is *so* slow at the start. You only have Vaan for quite a while, and have to do some questing outside with just him. Its never much fun to play party based RPGs with less than a full party, and particularly when the Gambits system is such a big part of this game (it even has its own shop!). Eventually you get to include Penelo as well, but then you are sent out to Giza plains on a glorifed fetch and carry quest. Then its back to just Vaan again for the infilitration into the feast (which isn't very interesting until the attempted coup starts).

Its just far, far too long to have to wait before you get your first party in the waterways. I don't mind Vaan (certainly not as much as some people do), but having him and occasionally Penelo as your only characters for around 2 hours or so is a devastatingly bad decision to open the game with. Particularly as there was a lot of people who were really sore about Vaan replacing Basch as the main character (and Basch comes over very well indeed in the intro).

As for the Star Wars references, the game embraces them and wants to know that its doing that. One of the buildings in Archades is shaped like a Star Destroyer!

Yes, I agree that it's too long when you only have Penelo available, and the story is chugging along like a stalled car. Especially the whole sunstone/shadestone thing in Giza Plains. That felt like childish busywork and that it was completely capable of being omitted. If the game had left that as an option, and instead you wouldn't need a magicked stone to open up the path in the waterway, I think it would have been much better. So yes, it felt too long, and fighting generic wolves and running from shadestone to shadestone is monotonous and inevitably raises more questions than answers like, what is a shadestone, how does it power up a sunstone, and why is it needed to open up a secret passage? So yes, I agree.

I know that Star Wars is commonly referred to in this game, as it basically is the starting point for the plot. I just wanted to highlight the fact that most people don't have a problem with the change in pacing in A New Hope. The difference, though, is that the Luke Skywalker of FFXII is completely superfluous.

I suppose the intent with the scene switch was partly to throw a 'Hey, I just saw that guy stabbed and now he's alive and well with shorter hair, fighting rats or something?' to intrigue the player. It was kind of lost on me though, as I didn't notice that the characters looked the same - lol! That's my own ignorance I suppose, and the game just straight up tells you anyway soon enough, but yeah, there's no doubt that those early sections had problems.

Like I say, I don't actually mind Vaan that much. I've played enough JRPGs and seen enough main characters of his sort to get that annoyed about it by now. It seemed to be casting him as some sort of cross between Luke Skywalker, Jim Hawkins and Aladdin, and I was fine with that. Plus I enjoyed exploring Rabanastre and seeing what was going on etc etc. Its just that as time rolled on, and I had to do so much busy work as you correctly put it, hunting rogue tomatoes and rolling about looking for shadestones and other fluff, I was itching to get started on the real stuff.

And even if it was just a case of giving me Penelo on a more or less permanent basis during these sections, or maybe having Filo and Kytes as guests or something, I just wanted more characters than Vaan on his own. It was depressing beyond words to have Penelo join the party (which I was happy about), only to be sent on the Giza Plains trawl for stones (which got old quickly) and then have her leave the party again (audible groan of despair time). It seemed like the game was stuck in tutorial mode, and that's a concern that continued (in even worse fashion) with FF13. Square really need to up the pace, and give their gamers a little more credit - just give us all those options as quickly as possible, we'll work it out eventually!

Still, from when Balthier and Fran join, the game picks right up and I fell in love with it almost immediately from that point on. Better late than never, after all.

You can't start off with Vaan going balls out against Archadia because then there would be no character development. Just as Luke had to grow from a farmer to a Jedi, so too did Vaan have to mature from a hopeful streetrat to a sky pirate.

I'll agree, you can't, but I still think it's wasn't the right choice either.

There are many other ways to introduce the player and develop the characters in situations that aren't as shifting as XII was.

Case of Final Fantasy Tactics, Where it starts in an assault as well, and then it shifts into an exposition on the turmoil that Ivalice was when Ramza was still in direct Contact with Delita. This time Ramza has 16 years old and his character is much more atuned with it's surroundings when comparing Vaan that he feels downright out of place.

The Other One is Vagrant Story, where it also starts with a full raid on the lands of a Duke were the church and a rebellious cult are involved. And your character, an Agent of the Parliament is set to investigate the situation. There are many turn of events during the raid, such as the apperance of a Dragon(that you actually fight) in a world that up to this moment implied that magical and mystical elements were said to be gone and forgotten by time. Your character is forced to chase the leader of the cult and he finds himself trapped in the Wine Cellar of a Colapsed and Abandoned City where he continues it's chase.

These two games were directed by the original Writer of XII and these games have a VERY POWERFUL Intro as XII had and they throw you fast into their respective storylines and characters without making the player to invest/waste his time on such downright pointless and Un-Fun MMO Type quests like gather the sunshine of crystals on Giza Plains.

The feel of what the game already exposed is not lost. Comparing to XII that right after the Intro, the feel shifts dramatically and it's very hard to roll with it for an average player.

The difference between Star Wars and XII is 1 or 2 Hours of Game time. So you see why I say it wasn't the right choice?

I'll agree, you can't, but I still think it's wasn't the right choice either.

There are many other ways to introduce the player and develop the characters in situations that aren't as shifting as XII was.

Case of Final Fantasy Tactics, Where it starts in an assault as well, and then it shifts into an exposition on the turmoil that Ivalice was when Ramza was still in direct Contact with Delita. This time Ramza has 16 years old and his character is much more atuned with it's surroundings when comparing Vaan that he feels downright out of place.

The Other One is Vagrant Story, where it also starts with a full raid on the lands of a Duke were the church and a rebellious cult are involved. And your character, an Agent of the Parliament is set to investigate the situation. There are many turn of events during the raid, such as the apperance of a Dragon(that you actually fight) in a world that up to this moment implied that magical and mystical elements were said to be gone and forgotten by time. Your character is forced to chase the leader of the cult and he finds himself trapped in the Wine Cellar of a Colapsed and Abandoned City where he continues it's chase.

These two games were directed by the original Writer of XII and these games have a VERY POWERFUL Intro as XII had and they throw you fast into their respective storylines and characters without making the player to invest/waste his time on such downright pointless and Un-Fun MMO Type quests like gather the sunshine of crystals on Giza Plains.

The feel of what the game already exposed is not lost. Comparing to XII that right after the Intro, the feel shifts dramatically and it's very hard to roll with it for an average player.

The difference between Star Wars and XII is 1 or 2 Hours of Game time. So you see why I say it wasn't the right choice?

I see what you're saying and I agree with you. I haven't played either game you mentioned, so I can't really assess the ways they start off. But have played FFXII, multiple times, enough to know that the game is a more laid back, open-ended experience. FFXII appealed to a more MMO type gameplay, where you have lots of options right off the bat. Where they failed was the lack of any sort of discernible character, and the cause of this is probably the original writer's leaving the project.

So far we've been talking about a shift in character, persona, situation, and story. But it's hard not to see the change in open vs. closed experience in the beginning. Reks is basically running in a straight line to the goal, killing bad guys on his way - essentially, the 'hallway' feature of FFXIII. With Vaan, you are basically given a lot of time to explore Rabanastre from the get go. Yes, you begin killing three rats, but I think that is both a demonstration of his benevolence and metaphorical of his character. He didn't have to kill the rats, but we can infer they were disruptive to someone (Vaan says, "Time to clean house," and Kytes says, "I know who to call when something big comes along"). His aside that they are good practice for the desert is indicative of a gracious refusal to acknowledge it as a bother. And it's metaphorical because, as I said before, the vermin imagery is appropriate to his character as a scavenger. Right after this scene, you see some cutscenes and are allowed to explore the city, something not provided when you played as Reks.

I think I see where you're coming from. What you'd like to see is more story-relevant events immediately following the intro. You also criticize the side quests as being un-fun and pointless. I agree that they are irrelevant to the storyline and may be seen as tedious busywork, but to a certain extent, that's a good portion of Final Fantasy XII. If it's all storyline, though, you get FFXIII, and maybe that's your cup of tea, but it isn't mine. XII and XIII are simply unbalanced, two opposite extremes, neither of which are satisfying to me. I recognize the tedium of collecting rocks, powering up crystals, and killing palette-swapped animals. The only reason we think that it's especially bad in the beginning is because it's come right after a tense, story-driven moment. But we need to step back and recognize that that scene is the hook. The game can't maintain its momentum entirely, and I know that your criticisms come in the degree of the decline in momentum. I'm inclined to agree with you, but I think there's a good explanation for it (characterization, change of tone, metaphor, open-ended experience, etc.) and although I admit it was jarring and it may have affected the gameplay, I don't have much of a problem with it anymore.

The difference between Star Wars and XII is not just 1 or 2 hours of game time, but 150+ hours of game time. The point of XII wasn't to give the sense of a movie, but an open-world experience. That's why I think the developers can justify their decision to tone down the momentum. This is a consistent problem with the entire game: the plot doesn't seem to drive the characters, and it borders on the ridiculous when you completely halt the plot to kill giant palette-swapped monsters in an area you already played for some meager items. I think that we tend to see this as a problem in the first half because the first half is so good. But we have to recognize that it's apparent throughout the game, and is arguably an inevitable effect of making it a more sandbox type experience.

I think I see where you're coming from. What you'd like to see is more story-relevant events immediately following the intro. You also criticize the side quests as being un-fun and pointless. I agree that they are irrelevant to the storyline and may be seen as tedious busywork, but to a certain extent, that's a good portion of Final Fantasy XII. If it's all storyline, though, you get FFXIII, and maybe that's your cup of tea, but it isn't mine. XII and XIII are simply unbalanced, two opposite extremes, neither of which are satisfying to me.

No, it's not that what bothered me specifically. And I didn't and won't play XIII probably, mainly because I'm not interested.
It's how poorly handled is what REALLY bothered me. You are not given the option to explote the million things that the game offers on this point of the game. The FORCEDLY OBLIGES YOU to make a Downright, unnecessary, long and boring Korean MMO type of quest that it's about gather sunshine from crystals throughout the Giza Plains in order to get the story moving so the good stuff gets unlocked. And up to this point there isn't much else to do. That's why it's so Horrible. You have 2 characters only, so it isn't even worth grinding LP because when the rest of the characters join the party, you'll have to repeat the process. So the game literally stanks itself on a stupid quest. And there isn't Character Development, Metaphor or any other element that you've invoked. 2 or 3 Dialogues with Penelo on Giza Plains at the start an at the end of the Quest and that's it. What else there is to do that's worth the time? Almost nothing. You don't have the Monographs or the chance to gather Gil quickly to buy them, and even with the Monographs you can't explore yet the places where the mobs with good loot for Bazaar is available yet and even if you can explore them you are underleveled, unless you whore Dustia with Phoenix Down's. But is worth doing this without the rest of the Party? You see it's a Cycle. The game doesn't offer you the Chance to Save Some Time by completing extra stuff while doing this, because the doors are not opened yet.



I recognize the tedium of collecting rocks, powering up crystals, and killing palette-swapped animals.

That's related to the rest of the issues that XII have with it's gameplay. This a be the Random Trasure Chest system that affects even the Good treasures. But it's not the focus of this argument.


I think there's a good explanation for it (characterization, change of tone, metaphor, open-ended experience, etc.)

But when Characterization, Change of Tone & Metaphor are poorly handled it is annoying. And the Open Ended Experiences are not fully available yet up to that point.



The difference between Star Wars and XII is not just 1 or 2 hours of game time, but 150+ hours of game time.

I wasn't referring to the whole game literally dawg. It's the 2 hour gameplay gap between the Intro and the game putting you into more intresting and fun stuff to enjoy storywise and play with the gameplay content you pointed out.



the plot doesn't seem to drive the characters

This is the often "Missed Appreciation" issue that XII gets. You see the Storyline in XII is not driven by our characters because it's not their story strictly speaking. The Story it's about Ivalice and how things resolve in a Grand Scale, that's why the focus is lost and it's hard to follow it, hence it's confusing. Although the characters may have their own inner thrives and reasons to do what they do and are not well explored, they're just little shreds of the story, not the story themselves. And this is because it's very thematic.
The Narration is poorly handled, that's for sure. But for the Plot not Drive the Characters is because the story is not about them specifically but about the World they're living.



, and it borders on the ridiculous when you completely halt the plot to kill giant palette-swapped monsters in an area you already played for some meager items. I think that we tend to see this as a problem in the first half because the first half is so good. But we have to recognize that it's apparent throughout the game, and is arguably an inevitable effect of making it a more sandbox type experience.

I wasn't bothered by this that much, Although I agree that after the Death of the Gran Kiltias the game reaches another Climax and the story stops again in the same fashion the After-Prologue portion.
It's a little justified in a sense that the characters have to travel A LOT in order to get from Bur-Omisace to Archadia safely. And at this Point the game has at least 85% of the extra content Unlocked.




EDIT: This is my 1777 Post. =D

I'd go along with most of what Top says here. My only point would be that the extent to which the characters are developed is not really that much worse than most FF games, or RPGs in general. Of the 6 characters, only Ashe, Basch and Balthier get all that much development and narrative screen time, but as they are the main characters, that's in line with most other RPGs, I would say.

The problem lies in the fact that Vaan was billed as the main hero when he plainly isn't (Ashe, Basch and Balthier all share top billing IMO). Meanwhile, even by the standards of FF, which sees an obvious imbalance in how much the various tiers of characters say and do, Vaan, Penelo and Fran get basically nothing. Vaan gets the most out of these 3, but again because he is supposedly the main character, it never really seems that way. But FF always does this to a certain extent (and it is definately not alone in doing it either). Many characters from all the games, have hardly anything to say or do in the final analysis, and have far less screen time than the others. FF8 is a good example, where after Disc 2 say, its Squall and Rinoa all the way, and the others don't really do anything at all anymore. Or take Freya, Amarant, Quina etc from FF9 - what do they do that is of any significance after the 2nd Disc?

Its the fact that there is no obvious Main Character who is doing 90% of the plot related talking, doing the usual rallying the team when they are down etc etc, that causes the lack of focus. Its supposed to be a truly team effort this time, but they still adhered to that same tier system, where even with only 6 characters, they still gave far more attention to certain characters over the others.

I kind of felt like FFXII was really more like FF RTS. It took place in a different sub-universe, all the original summons became airships, replaced with big, unmemorable overly-designed summons. I had to fight battles to learn to equip a shoe. Not really a true Final Fantasy in my book, but then again nothing was after XI :(

On a completely unrelated topic...

One of the biggest problems I had with getting into this game was all the similar names of people and locations. Like: Nabradia, Nabudis, Nabreus, Nalbina. Did they really need FOUR names of places that began with Na? Seriously, how is anyone supposed to remember those?

S-E really went overboard with the similar character names. There's Al-Cid and Cid, Ashelia and Amalia, Bergan and Ba'Gammnan, Gramis and Ghis, Larsa and Lamont, Rasler and Raminas, Rasler and Vossler, Reddas and Reks, even Vaan and Vayne! Why do the names have to be so fucking similar? It's bullshit!

On a completely unrelated topic...

One of the biggest problems I had with getting into this game was all the similar names of people and locations. Like: Nabradia, Nabudis, Nabreus, Nalbina. Did they really need FOUR names of places that began with Na? Seriously, how is anyone supposed to remember those?

S-E really went overboard with the similar character names. There's Al-Cid and Cid, Ashelia and Amalia, Bergan and Ba'Gammnan, Gramis and Ghis, Larsa and Lamont, Rasler and Raminas, Rasler and Vossler, Reddas and Reks, even Vaan and Vayne! Why do the names have to be so fucking similar? It's bullshit!

But Amalia and Lamont were cover names for Ashelia and Larsa, so it's probably a good thing that they sounded similar. I totally agree with the four Na's though, my first time playing I was totally confused with the story because of things like that.

I have been watching hc bailey play FFXII, and i wouldn't play it often if i had it.He said it could take 80 hours to complete, do its a really long game.One thing i like, is the real time combat.This seems like a game you need a guide for, because of the amount of secrets to missions, rare monsters, strategies and rare drops.I am considering in buying it.From what i've seen, i like it way more than FFXIII.

You can get a new copy for around $10USD in America. Get it because it's worth it. I like it A TON more than XIII; it's nothing like XIII.

They're pretty much exact opposites - 12 is all about free roaming exploration, loot gathering, monster slaying etc. Gameplay wise, its excellent, the combat is fun, there's tons of stuff to find and do and kill - its just the main quest that has some problems. Its mostly fine, but since its director was taken ill and had to leave halfway through, the second half is pretty dodgy.

The way I see it, after the beginning Vaan no longer is the 'main character' so much as you're mostly playing the game through his point of view as he witnesses history unfolding. He's a little punky, nothing special. Emphasis on 'nothing special', like a perhaps slightly above-average guy being dragged into all this. Which is pretty nice in its own way.

I admire Basch - how often does one see a character channel his shame and the burdening knowledge that a nation he faithfully served viewing him as a monstrous betrayer into strength? I wonder how things could have gone if he were still the main character with an alternate storyline - not much to do while languishing in the cell in the canon XII plot until Vaan & co. stumble by, after all.

And for all the people who are outraged that there was no kissing - hey, it's NOT the law to include a romance. Many good stories out there DO exist without this sort of thing, after all.

More or less, I love that FFXII is so HUGE. I know I'm glad to have played it to completion.

The judges were so awesome.

I think the best part of this game was the replay value.

Oh God, I can do nothing except gush feelings of orgasm and so much other explicit stuff about FFXII. Pacing issues, character development issues, all of that be damned, FFXII is hands down the best game in the FF series that I have ever played, and dare I say the best Square (Enix) title I have ever played. It is filled to the brim with all sorts of content. It has characters of all kinds of archetypes. It has freaking magic and freaking technology working cohesively. ohhhh my Godddd i love this game <3 <3 <3

Well said, 'Swagnigga'.

I liked the game but I couldn't quite follow the story. That was a long time ago though. I've played through it once and haven't played it since because I never owned the game lol.
I remember having lots of fun playing it though, and that's what matters most.

Same. The game itself was pretty fun and I wasn't turned off by the change in battle mechanics, but the story wasn't very easy to catch on and don't really remember much that happened. I still genuinely enjoyed the game, though.

I hear you, nuclear ducky. I think I went through it so quickly I couldn't remember the details. It's like that for TV series that I binge watch, too.

I played this game several times. The story isn't that great, it's not really a gamebreaker though. Gameplay is really great and if you guys never played the ijzs, I'd recommend that. Way better

Every FF game have three main vectors: characters development, battle system and plot.

I loved the new battle system when compared with the previous FF games. It brought a more dynamic approach to the battles although it could be improved but nonetheless it was a very nice upgrade.

The story itself was ok. A good departure from previous titles. instead of a epic effort to save the world from an horrendous end, we have a more down-to-earth theme. It might not be the regular western political drama but still it was a nice story. But regarding the pace of the game have some critics. A great deal of the game is used leveling up and when we are back in the story there�s a sense of lost because we were far from the story for quite a long time battling.

In terms of character development a lot could be done differently but as someone said before, changing directors in the mid of the game developing did not help. I did not sense there was a close link between the group as happened in other FF where most of them could relate between each other. I did not like Vaan at all and Balthier could be a better lead character than Vaan. Overall we could see almost all characters growing along the game (not Penelo...).

Still, I liked very much this game! I like the battles, the huge amount of map to travel and discover, tons of extra and side quests. The story was a refreshing departure from previous games and the characters were overall likable although under-developed.

The story certainly ISN'T the strongest point in FF XII. It features too many subplots that, together, just don't make sense and seem to be an excuse to show the game various locations (thank God Square let you skip cutscenes here). Characters aren't that special too although they all mingle well (their battle cries are better than their dialogs). Summoning is a mixed bag as the actual summons are nothing but a couple of visually entertaining animations triggered by unusual circunstances (Zodiark's Final Eclipse is only possible when the summoner is in Stone status... how useful is that considering all the trouble to get Zodiark in the game's final hours even if you can cast Break in your character?). The License Board is also a pain in the ass if you don't manage properly.

FF XII is all about side quests and that's where the game shines! The Clan Hunts are very time-consuming but are damn worth if you follow the dialogs. The Rare Game is quite a treat, not to mention the Clan Centurio Rank and Sky Pirate's Den (they work as a sort of an "achievement system" pre-PS3's trophy system if you like to collect everything). The dungeons are huge and full of cool monsters (although both tend to repeat their designs), the loot farming is very friendly when you learn the basics and getting the most powerful weapons is rewarding. Gambit system is a double-edged sword but runs smoothly after some time and there are the Quickenings (characters' otherworldly powerful special attacks) that add more "fantasy" to the mix and can wipe out bosses quickly when used correctly.

FF XII is a solid experience and it takes itself too seriously. However, its flaws just exacerbate the fact that the game is more action-oriented in spite of being strategy-driven at some points.

I take issue with that 'action over strategy' statement - the Gambit system is one of the most in depth strategic aids in any game! Just trying to button bash your way past bosses like Yiazmat and Zodiark... won't work!

As for taking itself too seriously, well that's always going to be something I can't see eye to eye with people on. I like serious games, and I don't agree that games shouldn't take themselves seriously. I'm not saying all games should, but when so few games do, then why can't us more sober types have the occasional game to ourselves?! :D

Vrykolas, Yiazmat is an optional battle just like other ones, they offer a great deal of strategy rather than button mashing and that's cool, button mashing a ultra fiend like Yiazmat would be just tiresome after the first 10 minutes.

Well yes but come on - how many of the Final Fantasy games need you to put in all that much strategy until the post game? The FF games are really good games, but they aren't hard games. FF7 is not a hard game, but the WEAPONS sure are hard. FF9 is not hard, but Ozma is something else. FF10 is easy as pie, but the dark Aeons are outrageously tough etc etc etc.

Basically, I'm saying that the systems in these games don't really get tested or used by most players to even a tenth of their potential, simply becasue there's usually no need to get that deep into them to complete the games. A surprisingly large number of people play FF7 and get most of the way to the end, without ever using materia (or really understanding what they're doing with them), instead just equipping the most powerful weapons and using potions and items. People go through FF8 without ever really using Draw etc etc.

Its not an optimal way to play these games, but a lot of people don't really care to experiment that much. They just find something that works (usually some variant on the basic attack) and just use that, levelling up now and then in grinding sessions if they find an area too tough. FF13 achieved some infamy for catching such people out with the Barthendelous and Cid Raines boss fights etc.

I'm just saying that we need to judge the robustness and quality of a game's systems on the tougher fights to get an accurate reflection of how good and nuanced they are. All the main game's encounters usually tell you are how accessible and user friendly the systems are (or aren't) to the average gamer. Very few FF main game encounters really demand you to know how to make best use of the systems. Power levelling and buying high performance weapons and armour will let you bluff your way through most of the main games.

Its the post game content where the *real* RPG gamers go for their thrills.

I'm saying that the systems in these games don't really get tested or used by most players to even a tenth of their potential, simply becasue there's usually no need to get that deep into them to complete the games. A surprisingly large number of people play FF7 and get most of the way to the end, without ever using materia (or really understanding what they're doing with them), instead just equipping the most powerful weapons and using potions and items. People go through FF8 without ever really using Draw etc etc.

Is that so? Well, part of the strategy in FF VII and VIII revolves around Materia and Draw. If there are people not using them then they're playing the games in a "hard mode". But for what would they do this? A challenge like FF X's infamous NSGNSNCNONENNENBB? Could it be.
In fact, Materia makes your life in FF VII too sweet if you "pay the price" of spending hours and hours leveling them. I remember going through all the final Sephiroth battles just summoning a fully upgraded Knights of the Round Materia for massive damage and thinking after "Is a final boss supposed to be this easy?". Couldn't help but to feel a little frustrated but I had the choice to not equip the Materia. The same cannot be said about FF VIII's Ultimecia. Her battles are spine-chilling because you can die at any moment and the more you level up, the harder your life is made, so there's a better balance and a better sense of a hard final boss battle regardless of the equipment you have.

They don't intend to play the game in hard mode - it just never occurs to them to actually look into the systems deeper than they have. And yes, many of them don't finish the games, because as various polls and stats will show with just a quick look on Google, people often don't bother playing all the way through games. They play for as long as they care to, then stop.

I'm not arguing that people *should* use Draw and materia etc, only that many people simply can't be bothered to learn this stuff, when the basic attack seems to work. Sure, they might have a hard time against the final bosses etc, but many give up well before then because hey, most gamers don't finish their games even 50% of the time. Even gamers who do use the systems in these games, rarely exploit them to their fullest potential.

The only real difference is that more casual players will never bother to learn this stuff. If it gets too hard, they just quit and never come back. Many more hardcore players will still lean heavily on attacks, skills and combos that appear to work for them, and will only start to experiment when they absolutely, *absolutely* have to. The Souls games for example (i,e Dark souls etc) are full of tales of woes where gamers reached bosses or sections where their chosen style didn't work, and had no idea what to do, so alien was the idea of trying something new or delving into the nuances of the system a bit more etc etc.

I know a lot of this seems like common sense, but a strange and contradictory creature is Man :D The FF games (hell most of SE's RPGs full stop) have extremely interesting and flexible systems that the majority of gamers completely underuse. Not because they're stupid or trying to be deliberately awkward... just because its what people do. They find something that works, and they do that - forever. When it stops working, chances are they either give up, level up so much that they can ram their usual approach through the problem, or if they really are into it enough, might possibly look for an alternative solution.

How sad is to quit on a game just because some find it "hard"; a waste of money and game's potential I humbly state. Most of the games I own I finished more than once and if I come back is to experiment with the game's system. Last time I played FF VIII I sorta stucked myself (just after the Fire Cavern) on the beach and started to level up the GFs you get at that point. Not to power level them but to upgrade exactly the abilities I can use in future to my advantage. Not in a hurry. :D

That's the good thing about finishing games: as you know all the story, you're free to search the possibilities the games' systems offer at your heart's content. Linearity is something imposed in FF games to the point we run out of options when it comes to follow a path (it is always the same old one you took the last 10 times you played...) but even so the system is always there to remember you to test with it and make the most of it, no matter how strict the linearity is.

It doesn't add up reaching level 90 to get a huge advantage against difficult parts and tough monsters if you're not willing to get to know the intermediate or advanced tactics, part of the game's fun comes from this "extra knowledge" and, well, it can be optional for lazy, casual players but dedicated ones will have better assessment as they are investing time on it. Soul's games may have its "quitter's legion" but FF series, I mean, to quit on a FF game the person must be or not interested at all or easily annoyed...

I wish I could jab you with a syringe, extract your DNA and have Andrew Ryan (of Bioshock fame) come up with a plasmid to make all modern gamers adopt your entirely sensible approach to gaming! :D

Its exactly what I do, as well. But sadly, all the stats (just look them up on Google), about game completion rates make for dire reading indeed. Modern gamers just don't bother finishing their games, and they want short, simple, mindless games rather than deep, long and involved ones. And you only have to skim through the trillions of gaming videos on Youtube to see that most gamers don't experiment with systems at all. Even famous Youtubers will usually have Comments sections full of people screaming at them to delve deeper and actually learn how to play the games properly.

But no, instead they just collapse through the games and prove that even when they're constantly getting burned, a lot of gamers just refuse to learn from their mistakes and try something different. I'm not knocking these people - many of them are hilarious and great fun to watch. But in terms of showcasing a willingness to learn and improve at the games (whatever they're playing), most people stay in the button bashing comfort zone.

I never thought "my thoughts on FF XII" would lead to this sharing, very fun indeed. Kindred spirits are hard to find :D

Vaan is such an impudent puff. Should've been him and not Reks who took Basch's long, smooth instrument inside of him at the beginning of the game.

Wow are people still talking about this game? My thoughts are that this is the game that made me decide to not bother with any future games in the franchise. None of the characters impressed me(though Balthier and Fran could have been the most interesting) with their personalities and their appearances didn't work for me either, I didn't find the story original or compelling, just a Star Wars ripoff, and the gameplay annoyed me, except for being able to recoup your magic points just by walking around. By the time it was done I didn't feel like I had played a final fantasy game, reminded me of how many times a book has been 'adapted' to the big screen and you get all excited to go see the movie cause you loved the book, but you get to the theater and you're like "WTF was THAT?!" when you find out only the names are the same...same feeling I had. It may have the Final Fantasy title on it, but it's not for me. If others love it, more power to 'em.

Wow are people still talking about this game? My thoughts are that this is the game that made me decide to not bother with any future games in the franchise.

From FF XIII you're not losing that much I assure you (unless you're into a style over substance game that spans in a convoluted trilogy that is hard to believe SQEX had it planned since the beginning).
FFXIV and FFXV I didn't play so can't say anything. I won't bother with FFIV.