I want to say this. Up to FFVI the series is increadible. I love everyone of those games. But then VII hits. The whole them changes. It goes from a fantasy world to a high tech gun-happy town. The guns are just a small part of it. VII changed everything that was good about Final Fantasy. I don't want to make enemies but I need to say this;VII is the worst Final Fantasy I've played. (I've played I-VIII). Why they chose to make a dramatic change like that is beyond me.

Does anyone agree with this?

if a game doesnt have any guns in it is gay. Football games are the best

Serioisly? Guns are what ruins games. I hate guns for some reason and I hate seeing such a great series with guns all of a sudden thrown in.

:fairybatman:

I just had to post that, man. We've been making fun of it in another thread. I don't believe a word of it. I don't really think having guns in the series ruined the balance horribly in terms of battle mechanics, but if you didn't like the changes that came with incorporating large amounts of technology I am perfectly capable of respecting your opinion.

I do personally enjoy the steampunk elements of VI the most, but I quite like the high technology aspects of VII and VIII, as well.

To each their own :)

Everyone is allowed to think what they want. I just dislike high-tech games. I've been waiting to start IX. I here it's a return to fantasy theme. How much?

IX is really excellent times and it really does capture the spirit of the classics. I think you'll have a great time!

I personally always thought that seven and eight did a great job of incorporating technology while maintaining the fantasy element. Nine basically does eliminate all use of technology except for airships, which have always been present in the series.

Tactics had guns and none of the other tech that seven and eight had. Did they bother you in that game?

Slightly. I just never used Gunners and since their so rare as enemies it doesn't really matter.

And I guess I'll start IX. Thanks.

Gunner Yuna :swoon:

HAAAAAAAAATE.


I thought guns were great in Tactics. I'm sure you'll like IX.

FFXIO has guns as well... but only certain jobs can use them, and there are other alternatives as the cost of ammo for guns is very expensive

I think he's only played through VIII. Other games have guns as well, of course. This has been discussed on the forum a few times, Luigi.

Just pointing out that was all.

It's understandable how some people may feel this way though. However, that's how things happen now. I don't think guns have ruined Final Fantasy, as the overall feel of the games is still the same. Saying that just one thing has ruined the game is kinda petty though.

Saying that just one thing has ruined the game is kinda petty though.

IAWTC. There have been multiple things that have been good and/or bad with each FF.

There's no such thing as a 100% absolutely perfect game. Some may come close, but there never will be a universally accepted 100% perfect game. Why? Because perfection is in the eye of the beholder. What one person considers perfect, may not be so for another.

There's no such thing as a 100% absolutely perfect game. Some may come close, but there never will be a universally accepted 100% perfect game. Why? Because perfection is in the eye of the beholder. What one person considers perfect, may not be so for another.

I object with one single word: Tetris.

Anyway, I kindasorta do agree that with VII's release, the series has begun to fall down. IX was enjoyable because it oriented itself more towards the classic games in terms of gameplay, storytelling and the general setting. IX is more fantasy, unlike the 2 prequels and the games coming after IX, which all feature high-tech. In fact, the people who enjoyed the Classics usually enjoyed IX a lot more than the other 3D games simply for that IX being inspired by the old games.
People who played mainly VII or VIII first were thrown off. IX only offered a little bit of Steampunk, but no high-tech stuff like VII and VIII, so - from what I've gathered - the die-hard fans of those 2 games seemed to loathe IX.

That's my experience. I wouldn't call the guns themselves the downfall of the series, although I do see why you would draw that connection. I more think it's that from VI to VII, the series went through so many changes (from Nintendo to Sony, from 2D to 3D, from Fantasy/Steampunk to High-Tech, from Amano to that guy who draws 9001 leather belts on every character he designs, etc.). Its popularity grew immensely, as well, which is a major aspect in this.
Of course, you can see the guns respectively the inclusion of higher technology in Final Fantasy as "symbol" to the series' start in getting worse, much like people see Shadow the Hedgehog as symbol for the downfall of the Sonic series (just to give a popular example), but it's not the guns themselves, but rather the change of path for the series as a whole.

Saying you prefer II or III to VII is just ridiculous and unbelievable.

If he was really saying IV or VI it would be completely believable ;)

Saying you prefer II or III to VII is just ridiculous and unbelievable.

I do.

If anything I'd say X is as far from "high tech" as you can get. But yeah, IX does indeed live up to the title rather than "Final Science-Fiction".

I object with one single word: Tetris.

That is your opinion, not everyone may agree with it however. Myself? I thought it was rather bland.

Saying you prefer II or III to VII is just ridiculous and unbelievable.


I do. I can't stand VII. I love II and III.

(Don't shoot me)

VII is garbage. But I do like the high-tech parts of the series. I didn't grow up playing the classics (which is probably why I don't really enjoy them :-/) but I don't think guns ruined anything with the series.

As for the absolute 100% perfect game, there is one. I just haven't made it yet.

But I do like the high-tech parts of the series.

I don't. ._.


I didn't grow up playing the classics (which is probably why I don't really enjoy them :-/)

I didn't grow up with them, either, but I enjoy them more than the 3D ones. In fact, VII was my first Final Fantasy, and I really loathe it now after playing the classics (and IX, hoh).

I remember playing the first FF on my trusty old NES 'back in the day'. Yes, when I first played FFVII I liked/loved it. However over time though, that love soured. Mainly due to the incessant fanboys/girls, creaming their pants in explosive delight over anything to do with FFVII.

I saw two idiots at a gaming store, beating each other up over a figure of Barret, while another person walked up and bought it. That caused the two to stop fighting... and gang up on the person who bought it.

There was no such insane activity for FFVIII of FFIX merchandise... only FFVII. imo, Guns did not ruined Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy VII ruined Final Fantasy.

The first one I played was VII (I was drawn to the huge sword), but I was too young to understand what was going on. Hell, when I played the first Mortal Kombat I didn't know what it was except a fighting game with ninjas lol. But when I played FFVIII, I was old enough to understand what was going on. So that was the first FF game that I've beaten. Then I went back to FFVII and just couldn't get into it. I didn't find the characters interesting and the story kinda seemed to drag on until around the third disc.

But I always thought that because FFVIII was the first game of the series I've beaten was the reason why I liked it more than the others.

EDIT: Haha XD, I love the last sentence!

I can only say that the reason that guns were introduced on the games because of the artwork.

Amano is the one that did the classics, & the classics didn't have guns or if it had they didn't have that much relevance, the Clothes & the style was very fantastic and nice.

Nomura introduced in VII the big swords & machine guns as artillery, the clothes were more modern Anime pop style, in X-2 the protagonist uses semi-automatic handguns(though I didn't played it from the look it's that).

Yoshida (hands down) uses in tactics a more medieval & baroque style on the artwork and technology was something that didn't matter, hence the more realistic style, In XII he uses the same feel on the scenarios & the dressing but the technology was more advanced than Tactics.

I don't have any problem with guns on games, I don't have any problem with guns on FF, my only problem is that Nomura artwork is more Anime influenced so it influences the storylines & characters, take VIII, X, any VII Spin-off as examples, they all lost that great fantasy aspect of the classics or the realistic response of the characters at certain situations that IV, VI & VII introduced.

About Yoshida I can only say that it's a total different thing, because Tactics & XII were made by a total different team, though it may borrow some FF elements, I do not consider them as FF games, You can clearly perceive that they have VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
And by a "VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTION" I mean that we have more secrets, more conspiracy, more cruelties and more conflict than any other of the FF's show on their characters personalities, background & storyline of the games, the other thing is the music & again the artwork.

Well that's just my opinion.

Nomura introduced in VII the big swords & machine guns as artillery, the clothes were more modern Anime pop style, in X-2 the protagonist uses semi-automatic handguns(though I didn't played it from the look it's that).

Bloody Nomura. It's his fault!!

And remember boys and girls: Guns did not ruin Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy VII ruined Final Fantasy.

Bloody Nomura. It's his fault!!

And remember boys and girls: Guns did not ruin Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy VII ruined Final Fantasy.

Both these statements are 100% true.

I remember playing the first FF on my trusty old NES 'back in the day'. Yes, when I first played FFVII I liked/loved it. However over time though, that love soured. Mainly due to the incessant fanboys/girls, creaming their pants in explosive delight over anything to do with FFVII.

I saw two idiots at a gaming store, beating each other up over a figure of Barret, while another person walked up and bought it. That caused the two to stop fighting... and gang up on the person who bought it.

There was no such insane activity for FFVIII of FFIX merchandise... only FFVII. imo, Guns did not ruined Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy VII ruined Final Fantasy.

Seconded!

I don't play many Final Fantasies, I used to be a fan, between games VI and VIII Those two are my fave. VIII over VI, why? I like how it's more modern than previous ones. VII seemed too far-fetched, I wouldn't have been surprised if it had a Gundam in there lol. But I like VIII because it had a more modern not too far-fetched feel to it... This doesn't apply to the last disc though, that kinda kicked me in the nuts, but it was a nice ending anywhoo...

Edit: And yeah I think they kinda over-react on VII. And it kinda worries me that for XIII they tout Lightning (retarded name...) as a "female Cloud". lmao honestly, I wouldn't want ANOTHER protagonist like Cloud. He could kill himself in FFVII's NEXT game and I wouldn't care. lol Squall had more depth and he seemed more human, just a stubborn jerk. Cloud just never changed. Zack was better off in Crisis Core, and he got capped. A shame really...

Zack got capped in FFVII too. But this was just in more detail. And I agree how Cloud never really changed. Squall went from being a jerk who didn't believe he needed anyone but himself in the world to being grateful to have friends at his side (hell, he even fell in love). And what did Cloud do?

And what did Cloud do?

Failed to kick ass?



....I got it right didn't I? ;)

He dressed himself in women's clothing and tried to trap a pimp.

Not that I don't approve of crossdressing and homoerotic undertones in games, but that speaks a lot about Cloud. And the fact Don Corneo is a disgusting sod doesn't help Cloud either.

Failed to kick ass?



....I got it right didn't I? ;)

Well, that too lol. But basically, nothing happened to Cloud. Nothing happened with any of the characters. At least in FFVIII, the characters had "personality" that kept me interested to keep playing the game (along with the music and story) but I didn't get any of that in FFVII. It felt more like a chore playing FFVII to me because I kept wondering to myself "when is this game over?".

I object with one single word: Tetris.
That boring shit?

Well Guns/projectiles do add to the strategy of the game. Especially toward flying enemies and long range enemies.

For christ sake people they have entire chapters of VII about progressing their personality. Like Clouds backstory and that thing under neath Golden Saucer with Barret. Ive never played VIII though so I can't compare

Well Guns/projectiles do add to the strategy of the game. Especially toward flying enemies and long range enemies.

How do guns add strategy to a game where people are standing in a row, having round-based turns and the enemies are just standing there if a melee-based character approaches and hits them?

How do guns add strategy to a game where people are standing in a row, having round-based turns and the enemies are just standing there if a melee-based character approaches and hits them?

I would've hoped he meant for a game like XII, or maybe even X-2 (stretching it a bit). If he meant a game like VII or VIII, then I think he's got the case of the low intelligence.

:)

How do guns add strategy to a game where people are standing in a row, having round-based turns and the enemies are just standing there if a melee-based character approaches and hits them?

Guns are kinda strategic in Final Fantasy XI Online, depending on your character's position, terrain etc. However, it's also your skill with that particular weapon type (Guns fall under Marksmanship, as do Crossbows), which also determines if your attack hits and roughly how much damage it can do.

Yea, but they were introduced in VII, so the "well they add strategy" argument doesn't work cause it took until XI before the choice of weapon made a difference for the character?

Technically (and this is just for FFVII) guns did make a difference. I don't think I would say they add strategy but considering that characters who wielded guns (i.e. Barret, Vincent) were the only ones that could hit far-away targets with their normal attacks, it isn't entirely correct to say that they don't make any difference at all. Again, this is just for FFVII.

I don't see the problem with guns or high tech themes. It adds to the games imo. Also, it's not like the creation of FFVII or VIII will delete previous creations, you can still play them and enjoy the differences they all offer. I honestly didn't use the gunners a lot in either game. I rather the character move from one spot for some reason, not any great reason just do. Also, IX is good, but I prefer VII and VIII maybe because their themes are so new in the series and I think with all Square introduced at that point in time they did pretty well in creating enjoyable games.

Yea, but they were introduced in VII, so the "well they add strategy" argument doesn't work cause it took until XI before the choice of weapon made a difference for the character?

True. In FFVII, (as was stated previously in this thread) guns do enable the player to attack certain mobs with ease, in comparison to characters with melee weapons who's only choice to attack those enemies is with magic.

FFVII is a techno-fantasy, just because it doesn't follow the standard of 'Swords and Sorcery' style of J.R.R. Tolkien-esque fantasy, doesn't mean it's not a fantasy game.

It's not a fantasy game!

Anti-Fantasy, holla.

(this has nothing to do with the current discussion. IGNORE ME!)

Neg, you weirdo.

Doesn't deal with my fantasies at all :mad:!

True. In FFVII, (as was stated previously in this thread) guns do enable the player to attack certain mobs with ease, in comparison to characters with melee weapons who's only choice to attack those enemies is with magic.

I forgot about that, yea.

If they are explicit and R rated Fantasies IDX, don't hog them all to yourself! Share the wealth!

No way! They are mine...FOREVER!

Aww come on man. Surely you can share just one of them? Give the shrine a taste of the true IDX

Well if I did that, then other shriners will be running around acting like me. In other words, they would be my CLONES! Which of course, we can't have because I'm sure I drive enough people crazy enough already.

And I'm sure Neg would be pulling out his you-know-what all the time too ;).

Heh true. Still, imitation is the finest form of flattery

Okay, I guess I can give a little peek if you wish. But don't blame me for what will happen. Now are you sure?

Yes we are sure.

SHOW US YOUR GIBLETS!!

... wait... that doesn't sound right >.<

:facepalm:

Oh, I'm not saying anything now that I know what your true intentions are!

damn you, Greg! shoulda kept quiet!

/pulls out his you-know-what

Yeah :mad:!

...no wait...


/pulls out his you-know-what



IT HAS BEGUN!

damn you, Greg! shoulda kept quiet!

Too late, I'm already damned lol

lol

Oh, I'm not saying anything now that I know what your true intentions are!

:(

Fantasies? What kind of fantasies?
R-rated for what? Moarplzthnxbye

:popcorn:

Eh... Barret's Gunarm is alright... But Oh well.