It seems that 50% of the FF fanbase hates this game, and the other 50% hates it. To quote Tvtropes:

"◦The dividing lines can be boiled down to "Pre-FF6", "FF7", and "FF10" camps. Other games' supporters tend to band together with one of these primary camps. Do well to know which camp is predominant in your area; talking about how great you imagine Sephiroth to be when you're on a forum filled with oldschool players is a good way of getting yourself mercilessly mauled. And the violent arguments within the Final Fantasy VII fandom alone are enough to cow a small island nation.

Final Fantasy VII: Was the Compiliation a good idea or not? Just about the only thing not up to debate here is that Dirge of Cerberus didn't play very well.
■And let's not forget the legendary hatred between Tifa and Aeris fans.. "

There are definitely people who genuinely finds this game to be a complete a waste of data, and then there are those who whorship at its shrine. I have found it futile to argue with either of sides, so it's better not to get in the middle of all of that.

Personally, I like the game for the mere fact that it was a great childhood mermory. I remember spending all summer when I was 11 playing through the game with a close friend.

So, yeah.

I think there is two reasons for this bitter divide. The first goes way back to 1997 when the game was first released onto an unsuspecting public.

Sony's hype machine went into overdrive prior to the game's release, sucking people into believing what they were getting was a game with jaw-dropping-visuals (for the time), challenging gameplay, a deep, intricate story with a strong cast of characters, and more. They got all that, and more.

However, average-Joe-six-pack discovered that the killer game he had brought home was a RPG, until then a genre of game that was limited to the hardcore gamer. A type of game where he was forced to read (shock, horror), and spend 30-60 hours of his life guiding a party of characters who kind of looked like they were made of Lego bricks in pursuit of some pointless McGuffin.

Hence, as quickly as the game flew off the shelves, the unwashed masses returned the title as quickly as they bought it, demanding angrily their money back (anecdotal evidence suggests that it was the most returned game in history at the time). However, there were just as many people who were hooked by it, and wanted more.

The second reason is a rather recent phenomenon. Following the departure of FF's original creator and patriarch Hironobu Sakaguchi from Square, and the merger of Square and Enix, the FF series took a totally different direction. Spin-offs and tie-ins were the order of the day, and because FFVII was the title which most still held as the benchmark of the series (and RPGs in general), they decided to release the 'Compilation of FFVII' titles.

It's this very thing which has caused this bitter resentment and loathing from many people, who just wish that Square Enix would leave FFVII alone and just concentrate on a brand new title for once, rather than milking FFVII dry. And the rantings of obsessed fans constantly whining for a remake of FFVII hasn't helped matters either.

Although I admit I like FFVII and regard it as a good game, I definitely sympathize with those who are sick to death of FFVII and wish obsessed fanboys and girls would just shut up already about it. But that's my two and half gil. ;)

Also, I learned from TVTropes that Final Fantasy didn't 'exist' until FF7 came along and that is a little sad to me. Granted, I never heard of the series until the third grade and even then I wasn't that interest until I play FFVI for the first time and was hooked. I just find it sad that the series is being milked the way it is especially when you consider the classics and that the only reason the games were so great was because it had not only the star players working on it but it had people who put all their effort to give us a good game with a great storyling and gameplay.

What Final Fantasy 7 was basically a culmination of all their efforts up to that point but that was because they had years of experience making games before seven came. I had played the classics and I admit it is better to leave some games alone but this is getting ridiculous, leave FF7 alone! We already have fanfics better than the spinoffs in the Complilation and even if Crisis Core expanded on the early part of the story, I rather they stop at that and stop the compilations.

I was first exposed to Final Fantasy through the very first game, actually. Granted, I was way the hell too young to know what was going on in the game, but I was fully familiar with the series of games when FFVII came out. I actually really enjoyed it, although I like FFVI better, but I do recognize the flaws in the storyline and gameplay. These, however, do not make it any less fun for me. The differences in peoples' opinions of the game are ultimately a result of subjectivity, although some people are much better at presenting their argument than others.

i for one think its a fantastic game.
however, the number of fans that it atracted, specially the emoyaoi fanboys that dream of sephiroth/cloud anal every second of their lives is what gave 7 the negativity it has in the gaming community.

i liked 7 and AC, but im not going to cosplay about it or begin to understand sephi's motives or whatever.
i played the game, watched the movie, and thats it, time to go play something else.

About the same.

Liked the game, hated the evangelism.

I think there is two reasons for this bitter divide. The first goes way back to 1997 when the game was first released onto an unsuspecting public.

Sony's hype machine went into overdrive prior to the game's release, sucking people into believing what they were getting was a game with jaw-dropping-visuals (for the time), challenging gameplay, a deep, intricate story with a strong cast of characters, and more. They got all that, and more.

However, average-Joe-six-pack discovered that the killer game he had brought home was a RPG, until then a genre of game that was limited to the hardcore gamer. A type of game where he was forced to read (shock, horror), and spend 30-60 hours of his life guiding a party of characters who kind of looked like they were made of Lego bricks in pursuit of some pointless McGuffin.

Hence, as quickly as the game flew off the shelves, the unwashed masses returned the title as quickly as they bought it, demanding angrily their money back (anecdotal evidence suggests that it was the most returned game in history at the time). However, there were just as many people who were hooked by it, and wanted more.

The second reason is a rather recent phenomenon. Following the departure of FF's original creator and patriarch Hironobu Sakaguchi from Square, and the merger of Square and Enix, the FF series took a totally different direction. Spin-offs and tie-ins were the order of the day, and because FFVII was the title which most still held as the benchmark of the series (and RPGs in general), they decided to release the 'Compilation of FFVII' titles.

It's this very thing which has caused this bitter resentment and loathing from many people, who just wish that Square Enix would leave FFVII alone and just concentrate on a brand new title for once, rather than milking FFVII dry. And the rantings of obsessed fans constantly whining for a remake of FFVII hasn't helped matters either.

Although I admit I like FFVII and regard it as a good game, I definitely sympathize with those who are sick to death of FFVII and wish obsessed fanboys and girls would just shut up already about it. But that's my two and half gil. ;)

Well explained

I liked VII when it came out, but I was 5 so anything that looked cool was automatically awesome to me. Plus it's got a lot of nostalgia to it.

However, I'm having a more enjoyable time with V and XII then I did with VII, but considering the fact that the games are in different existences, I try not to compare. I'd be like comparing Chrono Cross with Parasite Eve. :/

I'm personally just indifferent nowdays. There was a time I really liked the game and held the opinion it was really good - that was until I properly completed it and then reached the conclusion it was over rated and somewhat disappointing. But I never hated it. It's just a game I don't feel inclined to play again, especially as there were other FF games in the series I preferred.

It was my first final fantasy and i beat it 100% with over 200 hrs of gameplay. I knew it like the back of my hand. However when scrub ass noobs started heaping tons and tons of unnecessary praise on it, I ended up analyzing it far more than I needed to and I ended up hating it. Even though at one point, all my childhood consisted of was an urge to murder sephiroth and move the fucking truck in pokemon. So, it was the overexposure to ff7 by goddamn noobs that ruined it for me. But I still remember how i felt when I first played it and was such a good feeling. Also I remember it being harder. But I was 8 at the time.

I just thought it was boring as hell. Didn't pick up until the last disc. That's why I don't like it. As for the fanboys or whatever and Squeenix milking the game, I could care less. Not interfering with my daily activities so why bitch, right?

I played it over from the beginning again last month and it was alright in the Midgar part (although some of the shit on the train was so boring) and right after Midgar ended, it got...SO...BORING. Ugh. I agree IDX.

it's was the first rpg i ever played and to this vary day i enjoy it and it's also the very reason i started to play and enjoy rpg's... i also enjoy the other ff games as well... well some of the fans and fandoms do over do it and kill it for others but no matter what happen i still enjoy it... i pay no mind to crazy fanboys and girls... let's Squeenix do what they want... i don't care as long as they still make enjoyable games then that all i care about... :D

About the same.

Liked the game, hated the evangelism.

same here, FF VII it�s my favourite game ever and i know it isn�t the best one (for me it�s FF VI, all hail Kefka), but the problem is the emofanboy who masturbates thinking about Sephirot�s(aka Mama�s Boy) Masamune and don�t accept the plot holes and the errors the game has.

Everyone must recognize that without FF VII influence in the Video Game industry, we could�t have enjoyed others RPG series (like Persona, Suikoden, Tales, etc).

That�s what i think

I dare you to actually come up with some of these plot holes that you mention, solidsnake999...

It was a decent game. The first time I played it I didn't understand the entire storyline. I tried a few years ago to play it again and just couldn't do it. The obsessed fans are what makes the game rather annoying to even think about anymore, atleast to me. As for spin-offs, I did enjoy Crisis Core but I could've done without the rest of them.

Yeesh, I think Enkidoh said it better than I could ever have. And I've many a-debate over this. Kudos to you, Enkidoh.

Seven is my personal favorite game of the series (and even all time), because I appreciate the story, characters, world, and general gameplay. I would never, ever, call it the best game of all time though. Not because I don't think it is, but because that's just... not fair to say. (Paradoxical, I know)

Different people appreciate different things in different ways, and I look at VII and see a quality game, whereas I look at X and see a decent game. But that's just me, I'm not opening any debate.

And it's a very,very, true fact that there are some creepy-as-all-get-out fans of VII out there. But the same goes for VIII. And X. And even VI and IV. I think part of the reason VII gets such a bad rep these days from some people is that they meet the kind of person who thinks Sephiroh may be the greatest villain of all time and Tifa's hot as hell, and blah blah blah. I don't think along those lines, rather I like the game as a whole for what it is.

That and it seems to just be trendy to hate on VII these days, probably due to part of it's rather creepy fanbase. Oh well. There's still good-hearted VII fans out there, and I'd like to think I'm one of 'em.

I will now, and forever, always be of the opinion that some people have to stop being such drama queens over VII. Either for it or against it. Personally I thought it was a great game, though undeniably a bit overrated. The overkill of all things VII was definitely noticable, and even these days I do think Square should lay off Final Fantasy just a tiny bit though I admit that's a personal sentiment more than a realistic one (and I liked Dissidia and Crisis Core. Though I miss the days when Square had such great variety a lot can be forgiven if the games themselves are actually good.) . The other side of the spectrum can be just as bad though, if not worse in some ways. I played the originals too though, and nothing pissed me off more than pretentious pricks with an overbloated sense of self entitlement making it sound like the situation is "if you like VII you never played anything before". I mean...god..

When it comes to the original game...to me people can think whatever they want about it, and say what they want but beyond that... bottom line is that it's been a part of video game history for more than a decade now. It's there, that's that, just move on.

I think that... a lot of people think it's a great game out of their nostalgia. I'm not talking about the fans orgasming all over it - those people would do it to something else if FFVII didn't exist - but the reasonable people who think it's a really good game or the best game they played.

I remember back in the day when it was released in Europe. I've never heard of the Final Fantasy series back then, because it didn't make it to Europe at all. However, I was familiar with JRPGs and liked round-based RPGs back then. I had played Breath of Fire and the enix SNES JRPGs prior to FFVII.
However, almost nobody was interested in the games or the genre. Because Europe got shat on by Japanese gaming companies (and still get shat on most of the time), we didn't get like 70-80% of the SNES games, lol.

Now, FFVII gets released. The Sony-propaganda machinery and the fact that the European gamers didn't really KNOW JRPGs before was something that impacted Europe a whole lot. They weren't familiar with this kind of RPG, they would only know stuff like dungeon crawlers like Dungeon Master or Western RPGs like Baldur's Gate, which simply didn't interest the majority of people. The whole JRPG deal was uncommon. But it interested people. They liked it. A lot. It had an epic story, it had - for the time - good graphics, and it was simply a new experience.

A lot of people were hooked by it and got interested into RPGs in the first place. They got to like the genre. Honestly, back then in the late 90s, gaming magazines' RPG section was smaller than the Adventure (!!) section for PC games at least, or they were combined with the Adventures... and still very small. And that says a LOT about that time.

I think that in the States, it was similar. Although they had far more JRPGs back then, RPG simply wasn't such a popular genre, and the rest of the story was summed up very well by Enkidoh.

That's the only possible explanation I have.

Now, onto my own personal stance.

For its time, it was okay. Maybe even good. As said, I was already familiar with the genre through other games. I didn't know the FF series prior to FFVII, and people all told me "OMG, such a good game!!" etc., so I got it and... I kinda was disappointed.
I dunno, I found the characters to be flat, and the story was okay, but pretty out there. I loathed the music. I had played Panzer Dragoon prior to FFVII, and found it way better in every aspect.

After this, I tried FFVIII and found it just as bad, only I liked Edea and the music was better. That's that.

Then I was interested into the prequels. Since there already were VII and VIII, I figured there would need to be I-VI. So I got me the SNES games first, and I was blown away by IV. I loved V and VI. Then I played the NES games, and I liked them a lot, too.

IX was good - it was inspired by the Classics after all - and X I found horribly boring. Any game after X I never touched.

My personal gripe with VII is... that it's such a blatant rip-off. The characters and story are so obviously heavily inspired by VI that it's embarassing. Honestly, when I played VI, I felt like it was a deja-vu, and goddamn, it WAS, because I played VII prior to VI. There's many aspects in VII's story that was obviously taken from the direct prequel. It's just more explosions, bigger swords and that sissy madman (who becomes the main villain) stabbing a girl from behind instead of poisoning a river halfway through the game.

I dare you to actually come up with some of these plot holes that you mention, solidsnake999...

www.google.com is where you will find them...and more.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkxR4p7P74Y

IDX Rider - I only found one plot hole listed by searching on google: the weapons not attacking Sephiroth when they are awakened. I and others addressed this in the 'Plot Holes - Do They Exist' thread I created, and determined it wasn't a plot hole. Therefore, I'm still unconvinced it has any aside from my one small concession regarding the party's unexpected choice to pursue Sephiroth after spending the beginning of the game fighting Shinra. Aside from that, I still am unconvinced that the game is rife with plot holes as many seem to believe. You can see the thread I mentioned for details. Until someone is able to come up with some more plot holes, I will question anyone who says the game is filled with them, like the one fellow did in this thread ;)

It's been years since I last played VII. I've played VIII countless times so I'm more knowledgeable on that game.

So basically, I don't know about the plot holes. Either because there weren't any or I just wasn't paying attention to the story while playing. It's hard to get interested in such a boring game.

Everyone has an opinion on what games are good or bad. Whether you like it or not doesn't really make any difference to me.

I just defend against the plot holes issue because I actually do like the game, and I think it is unfair to hate on a game for a problem that it doesn't have.

I'm sure some nerd out there who knows FFVII like the back of his hand (no fanboy traits either) knows if there is or isn't. If you don't want to play the game again and reallllyyyyyyyyyyy pay close attention and see if you find any, I guess either wait for this nerd to show up or do more research.

I guess so. Until then, I plan on verbally slapping anyone on the cheek who says the game is full of plotholes, as it is basically something that has been stated so often that people think it is a fact. And I shall valiantly seek to upturn it by poking such people with a stick til they actually come up with the plot holes they so self-righteously mention.

Well at least you don't challenge my opinion on it being a rip-off of VI's story. :P

I don't think I know enough of FFVI's story to challenge the opinion. However, I did just get an SNES emulator. I just need to find the FFVI ROM so I can make sure I'm justified in harassing it all the time ;)

Well, as said... The story of VI and VII does have its differences, but there's so many things that clearly have been directly taken or were heavily inspired by VI.

Ancients & Life Stream = Espers
Shinra = Empire
Rufus = Gestahl
Sephiroth = Kefka
Hojo = Dr. Cid
Red XIII = Celes
Aeris = Terra
Cloud = Locke

And the list of obvious similarities goes on. :V

Kinda reminds me about this Egyptian book of the dead (can't think of the real name) that was written 2000 years before the bible but everything in the bible happened in this other book. The only thing that seemed to have changed was the names and names of places.

Sony's hype machine went into overdrive prior to the game's release, sucking people into believing what they were getting was a game with jaw-dropping-visuals (for the time), challenging gameplay, a deep, intricate story with a strong cast of characters, and more. They got all that, and more.

Really? REALLY?

And I love how everyone blames FF7 sucking on fanboys. They actually add some form of entertainment to the game, imo.

Kinda reminds me about this Egyptian book of the dead (can't think of the real name) that was written 2000 years before the bible but everything in the bible happened in this other book. The only thing that seemed to have changed was the names and names of places.

Well, of course it's not directly taken over. There are some changes to the two games, and the characters are a bit differently. But pretty much all roles are filled, etc.

Some things are new, such as the Turks. Those are pretty much the only thing I can't fill out. Here a few other things, though:
Weapons = 8 Dragons
Barrett & Tifa = Edgar & Sabin
Jenova = those 3 godly statues
Vincent = Shadow
Yuffie = Mog

As you can see, even minor characters and things are reappearing in FFVII. <_<

I think the best description I heard of this issue was while playing FFXI (oddly enough :p) It was:

You can tell a persons age by which FF is their favorite.
FFX, X2, XII - 14 and under
FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX - 21 and under
FFVI, FFV, FFIV, FFIII, FFII, FFI - Anyone

While I might not agree wholeheartedly with the ages, it is typical of those who like the newer FFs to be either markedly younger than other fans, or have something against games that aren't 3D.
This is of course just what I've seen myself, you can imagine in FFXI that it gets asked a lot which FF is your favorite, and most often you could see an age divide; that said, there are of course older and younger alike that enjoy different eras of FF.
There were also a number of people who genuinely detested games that were 2D or older RPGs based on the lack of graphical flair, now these users generally were younger, as would make sense, they did not necessarily grow up with older technology or are spoiled. :P

Now all that said, I myself would be in the "Pre-FF6" with a little room for FFIX in my heart and a big spot for Tactics, with a detest for 8, 10, 10-2 and beyond. But I'm 24 and was raised on the old tech, so what can you do. :p
Besides, can you trust everything on FFXI? I mean most of the people I played with were of the 28-55 demographic, seriously, some of them were old, wtf. :itsamystery:

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkxR4p7P74Y

This video is pretty much invalid. You cannot claim other opinions false with your own opinions and expect to be right. On top of his overuse of image macros really shows how much he thought this out.

You promoting this just shows what a true tool you are.

This video is pretty much invalid. You cannot claim other opinions false with your own opinions and expect to be right. On top of his overuse of image macros really shows how much he thought this out.

You promoting this just shows what a true tool you are.
He gives good points, you're just jealous because all you can fire back with is 'but it was 3D'.


And you're a tool for thinking that calling others a tool doesn't make you one.
:P

What a tool huh?

Sherlock - I know there are some similarities from what I already know, but I think your character comparisons are quite the stretch. After all, if we are to take them as you put them, then Locke (Cloud) has a love triangle with Terra (Aeris) and Sabin (Tifa). That has absolutely no validity in the FF6 story. Red XIII as Celes? Locke and Celes get together in the end in the FF6 story (I think). By comparison, Cloud and Red do not in FF7, at all. I'm don't want to assault every character comparison you make, but you can't possibly believe that these are accurate. The characters have completely different personalities across the two games, different weapons, different everything.

What I think you are trying to point out are similarities that ring across every Final Fantasy game (or at least all the ones I've played). There is always an nasty empire.

FFIV - Kingdom of Baron
FFVI - Empire
FFVII - Shinra
FFXII - Whatever the name was of that empire that Vayne ruled over.

There is always some threat to the planet itself that the good team tries to oppose. The life force of the planet manifests itself in different ways.

FFIV - Crystals
FFVI - Espers
FFVII - Lifestream
FFXII - Nethicite

The bad guys always seek the ultimate power derived from the planet, and by doing so inevitably become psychotic/insane along the way.

FFIV - Zemus/Zeromus
FFVI - Kefka
FFVII - Sephiroth
FFXII - Vayne Solidor

Note: I only have listed the games I've played. I can't account for those that I haven't.

Anyways, as you see there are these commonalities between the games that always distinguish them as being distinctly "Final Fantasy". I don't think that that is a fault, as each of these similar elements has been handled uniquely in each instance of FF (that I've played). As a consequence, I don't think saying FFVII = FFVI is terribly fair or really all that accurate, because if you see the argument I've presented... FFVII = Every FF game. And every FF game = FFVII. In terms of basic thematic background.

Sherlock - I know there are some similarities from what I already know, but I think your character comparisons are quite the stretch. After all, if we are to take them as you put them, then Locke (Cloud) has a love triangle with Terra (Aeris) and Sabin (Tifa). That has absolutely no validity in the FF6 story. Red XIII as Celes? Locke and Celes get together in the end in the FF6 story (I think). By comparison, Cloud and Red do not in FF7, at all. I'm don't want to assault every character comparison you make, but you can't possibly believe that these are accurate. The characters have completely different personalities across the two games, different weapons, different everything.

You fail, good Sir. A lot. I said that there are differences, but the similarities are absolutely no stretch at all. I also never mentioned weapon or character relationships. I was going by their role and backstory. I never implied that Cloud is having it with Red XIII.

Locke and Cloud both want to save the girls they like and have a dramatic past.
Sephiroth and Kefka both are simply mad clowns.
Terra and Aeris are both softhearted girls related to the main race in the game that got destroyed.
Celes and Red XIII both are characters that have been subjects for a scientist to make them ultimate weapons for the army.
Rufus and Gestahl both are power-hungry fools that in the end realized their mistakes.
Edgar/Sabin and Barrett/Tifa are closely related characters (brothers respectively close friends) that lead a rebellion against the big empires.
Hojo and Dr. Cid are scientists working on ultimate weapons and experiment on people for the said empires.
Cid and Setzer both are kindasorta mercenaries flying around in airships.


What I think you are trying to point out are similarities that ring across every Final Fantasy game (or at least all the ones I've played). There is always an nasty empire.

FFIV - Kingdom of Baron
FFVI - Empire
FFVII - Shinra
FFXII - Whatever the name was of that empire that Vayne ruled over.

Now, I never played XII, but Baron and the Empire/Shinra Corp. are quite different. Baron is a strong kingdom that has been taken over by the main villain of the game (Golbez) and its king is used as a puppet remotely. Both the Empire and Shinra Corp. are big entities led by one single person first believed to be the main villain only to change into a minor role respectively even turn good - kinda at least.


There is always some threat to the planet itself that the good team tries to oppose. The life force of the planet manifests itself in different ways.

FFIV - Crystals
FFVI - Espers
FFVII - Lifestream

Only that the Crystals were no ancient race that has become extinct respectively has been destroyed. Remember how I also said that the Espers were equal to the Ancients.


The bad guys always seek the ultimate power derived from the planet, and by doing so inevitably become psychotic/insane along the way.

FFIV - Zemus/Zeromus
FFVI - Kefka
FFVII - Sephiroth

Only that Zemus never appeared until the very last minute of the game and used a puppet (Golbez) to do his bidding, while Kefka and Sephiroth both started out as soldier of the character who first was thought to be the main villain (Gestahl/Rufus, although in Sephiroth's case, it was prior to the story). Zemus also is not a madman. Kefka and Sephiroth are. Both want to destroy the world. Both have been artificially created. Both are directly cruel - just that Kefka in "his" cutscene kills a whole town while Sephiroth kills one single girl.


Anyways, as you see there are these commonalities between the games that always distinguish them as being distinctly "Final Fantasy". I don't think that that is a fault, as each of these similar elements has been handled uniquely in each instance of FF (that I've played). As a consequence, I don't think saying FFVII = FFVI is terribly fair or really all that accurate, because if you see the argument I've presented... FFVII = Every FF game. And every FF game = FFVII. In terms of basic thematic background.

Then you don't see the similarities between those 2 games and should investigate further.

I also didn't say that FFVII = FFVI, I said that VII has taken chunks directly from VI, or has been heavily inspired by the prequel's stuff in some cases. As said, there ARE differences in the two games that are independent from each other (such as the World of Balance/World of Ruin concept of VI was vastly different from VII that had stuff like the Gold Saucer or so).

Sephiroth was never insane (such as "lost his mind"). He just got really pissed when he found out he was created and decided to try and finish what Jenova originally wanted. He also destroys an entire village along with Aerith. Or town. Whatever.

Believe it or not, I was a bit disappointed that there was nothing about FFVIII during this talk of similarities. It seems like you guys are having fun debating :(.

You guys suck.

FFVIII had such a forgettable story that I hardly remember anything from it, lol. Sorry.

And it's been some years since I played VII, so I can't remember details THAT well. Though I do think that Sephiroth was kinda insane. :P

Hehe... I think we are just getting confused as to what the other person's point seeks to be.

In any case, here is essentially my final point that I want to argue:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad

Characters and literary devices have been used for milennia and thus many stories have some similarities to other stories or characters. But that isn't a bad thing, and as you yourself have noticed, FF7 has taken some simple character themes from an earlier game and then changed them dramatically. The very first FF game I played was IV, and after playing VI, I thought that much of what was good in VI was taken from IV, although later I realized that that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

So what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is: if they are similar, does it truly matter? I think not.

EDIT: I haven't played FFVIII, but I really should. I'm going to play FFVI first, though! =)

FFVIII had such a forgettable story that I hardly remember anything from it, lol. Sorry.
FAIL! It had a good story! Or more rather, complete.



EDIT: I haven't played FFVIII, but I really should. I'm going to play FFVI first, though! =)
FAIL!

Ha!

What turned me off was the concept of gunblades. Gun + sword...?

Sounds preposterous.

Its not entirely impossible, i mean damn, people have been putting blades on guns for hundreds of years. Why cant a blade have a gun on it instead? Besides, you said you like FFVII, whats possible about sephiroth being stabbed in the back by cloud and not being cut in two? :P

By the way, whoever compared kefka to sephiroth needs a full blown gunblade pistol whip. Look at the huge differences, not once did you see sephiroth use materia, but he did use magic (and yes Puddles, im using the entire FF storyline not just 7). Kefka was made insane when he was infused with way to much magic stones, a more extreme version and earlier version of celes. Sephiroth didn't poison a castle's water supply, Kefka's insanity and lust for power spawned from the magic stones. Sephiroth was never insane and didn't wish to destroy the world, just purify it and make it better, rid of shinra and people he believed deserved it. Another thing is, Sephiroth never said one word during FF7, not one line came from Sephiroth (And i'm not counting nibelheim) Nibelheim was temporary insanity for him, and who wouldn't lose it when you were born a genetic experiment of an alien race.
Still its a huge plot hole that not one book in the shinra mansion OR in shinra HQ files mentioned that Jenova was not Cetra, but Sephiroth believed he was an ancient, when later you find out he wasn't.

Ha!
What turned me off was the concept of gunblades. Gun + sword...?
Sounds preposterous.
As apposed to having stones, when shoved into holes in your weapons, grow and give you more and more power?

:P


As flawed as a game as FF8 is, it's a damn guilty pleasure.

He gives good points, you're just jealous because all you can fire back with is 'but it was 3D'.


And you're a tool for thinking that calling others a tool doesn't make you one.
:P

All of his "points" are opinions, like I previously stated.

FAIL! It had a good story! Or more rather, complete.

It turned me a whole lot off that the game pretty much just gives you the finger in the end after defeating Ultimecia and everything you did was absolutely pointless because it will loop. :P


By the way, whoever compared kefka to sephiroth needs a full blown gunblade pistol whip. Look at the huge differences

lmao. You fail too for comparing details just like puddles did.

Ha!

What turned me off was the concept of gunblades. Gun + sword...?

Sounds preposterous.
Uh, they've made gunblades in like, the 1800's. I have the link in my inbox. I'll put it here.

EDIT: Okay, I have two links.

http://www.ruble-enterprises.com/PFsword.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword

Yeah, I know that the stuff in FF7 is hardly more feasible than gunblades... I guess the true reason I never got around to 8 was that after I beat 7, I swiftly discovered that my computer at the time could not run 8. Thus my slightly embittered older self who has never bothered to go back and play 8 now that he has a far better computer.

I played them on the PSX first. I downloaded FF8 for the PC a year or two ago. The music is so much better on the Playstation version too. And the CGI is as well. And the background. Almost everything is better on the Playstation version actually.

Yeah, I know that the stuff in FF7 is hardly more feasible than gunblades... I guess the true reason I never got around to 8 was that after I beat 7, I swiftly discovered that my computer at the time could not run 8. Thus my slightly embittered older self who has never bothered to go back and play 8 now that he has a far better computer.

Then stop being a cheapass and get yourself a PS1 and play it in a far superior way like the rest of us. lol

Well, as soon as I play and beat FFVI and then Chrono Trigger, which I have never played. Then I'll play FFVIII.

VIII is so much better though. You need to witness it the way the creators intended!

Or you will die.

Well I have a playstation 2, which plays PS1 games as well, I believe. So I think I'll be safe from FFVIII-induced death.

That's good. It would be said for said death.

Chrono Trigger, which I have never played.

Good choice. Screw FF. Chrono Trigger >>> FF.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad

I love tvtropes.org. It's like Youtube for the literate.

One thing I genuinely dislike about FFVII itself is the music. Even ignoring the quality of the sound, I think it's generally plainer than the music of the two games that bookend it.

I'd say they've been much improved upon with reinvention but...I don't really care for what later renditions did to some of the tracks (see Advent Children).

This site has a comparison of similarities between all FF games.

http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/

Personally, 12 years ago, when FFVII came out I was a hardcore fan. Over the years, though, the 'love' I had for it died off with the release of the Tech Demo, as that was the one thing (imho) that fanned the flames of fanboys/girls screaming for FFVII remake.

Add in the prequel/sequel stuff and it's just SE flogging a dead horse to try and take more money from people. I know people who've worked in game stores when Kingdom Hearts came out and the only reason it sold, from their perspective, was due to Cloud and Sephiroth... talking.

If the only way some people can 'beat off' is over two computer sprites talking... the world is doomed.

Well i mean, Dissidia sold because everyone wanted to know who was best, and to fight their friends as their favourites to prove their point.
I personally liked KH for Leon, the character design couldn't be insulted, Sephiroth was just an additional bonus, but as i've said about SE, i hate them for bringing out prototypes before final releases (eg: Kingdom hearts final mix)

i hate them for bringing out prototypes before final releases (eg: Kingdom hearts final mix)

The Japanese devs in particular are really starting to grind my gears with that crap. Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean get the same kind of expanded content when they get ported to PS3 with no plans of making that content available to previous owners on 360. I could understand that in previous generations, but this gen it's pretty crappy to do that when you have DLC across all consoles at your disposal.

Eh, it sells more, and the people not having internet access won't bitch.

So release an expansion. Consoles have hdds standard this gen.

But they'll never do that. Too stuck on an old business model imo.

Well i mean, who wants 360 anyways?
It's the exact reason kojima doesn't want to have MG rising online, coz it's gonna charge, which isn't fair between PS3 and 360.
Why should we have to pay for use of their network per month, we bought the console and they get paid networking costs by the gaming companies no doubt, so why should we pay when we pay for expanded content such as CoD world at war map packs etc. We know we will only get a few years of play out of it (if that) because they'll discontinue the servers for the games when the new game comes out.
It's all a waste of money. I'd like a game that will have a life of at least 5 years, like if kojima would release metal gear online as a full game, get rid of all the pathetic bugs and glitches it has and really go for a full sized online game. That's all halo is basically, halo was designed to just be an online shoot em up (halo 3 at least), now you have ODST which should just be released as DLC at a cost for multiplayer. Noones buying it for the story (those that will admit it, i'll give them respect)

I'll be honest. I'm not sure what anything you've said has to do with my point.

I liked this game, but it took a few playthroughs to understand it. My little sis doesn't get Cloud's coma lol

Well i mean, who wants 360 anyways?

Me.

Well i mean, Dissidia sold because everyone wanted to know who was best, and to fight their friends as their favourites to prove their point.
I personally liked KH for Leon, the character design couldn't be insulted, Sephiroth was just an additional bonus, but as i've said about SE, i hate them for bringing out prototypes before final releases (eg: Kingdom hearts final mix)

Actually, they're first version of KH didn't have Sephiroth as a hidden boss, nor Kurt Zesa (sp?) or that Phantom in Neverland. They released Final Mix because the Japanese public were bitching at them because they didn't have what we did. So they released Final Mix as an exclusive.


Well i mean, who wants 360 anyways?
It's the exact reason kojima doesn't want to have MG rising online, coz it's gonna charge, which isn't fair between PS3 and 360.
Why should we have to pay for use of their network per month, we bought the console and they get paid networking costs by the gaming companies no doubt, so why should we pay when we pay for expanded content such as CoD world at war map packs etc. We know we will only get a few years of play out of it (if that) because they'll discontinue the servers for the games when the new game comes out.
It's all a waste of money. I'd like a game that will have a life of at least 5 years, like if kojima would release metal gear online as a full game, get rid of all the pathetic bugs and glitches it has and really go for a full sized online game. That's all halo is basically, halo was designed to just be an online shoot em up (halo 3 at least), now you have ODST which should just be released as DLC at a cost for multiplayer. Noones buying it for the story (those that will admit it, i'll give them respect)

Xbox Live is better than the PS3 online. I can't remember why though. They did a comparison between the two on TV at some point. And it's not a monthly thing for XBL. Sure you can if you want, or just get the cheapest package of $50 for a whole year. It's not that big of a deal in all honesty.

Also, Halo 2's servers are still up. It's just going to be a bitch finding a match because not a lot of people are on it anymore. And Halo 3 sucks online. If it played as awesome as on LAN, then it would have my interest. I'm interested in ODST's story actually. Seems like they actually tried this time for it. I'll rent this one definitely before I buy. I think the only multiplayer action for ODST is the GoW knock-off of Horde, Firefight. At least as far as I'm aware. I also heard or read somewhere that it will include the final three Mythic maps for Halo 3. Whether or not you're going to need your Halo 3 disc to play online still or it will all be in ODST is beyond me though.

You don't need Halo 3 at all because Halo 3 multiplayer and all the maps are on the second ODST disc.

So I can sell Halo 3 and still be able to do the multiplayer through ODST? It will be the same thing, right?

I found it highly entertaining checking this thread today and seeing that the conversation had shifted from "why is everyone divided over FF7" to stuff about the Halo games and Halo 3.

I'm not complaining; I really don't mind. I just found it hilarious =)

I found it highly entertaining checking this thread today and seeing that the conversation had shifted from "why is everyone divided over FF7" to stuff about the Halo games and Halo 3.

I'm not complaining; I really don't mind. I just found it hilarious =)

THIS IS...FFSHRINE!

What he said.

:colbert:

So I can sell Halo 3 and still be able to do the multiplayer through ODST? It will be the same thing, right?

Yep. It's the full MP. Only missing the campaign.

Well, I hope some place is doing a deal for trading in Halo 3 for ODST. I don't care for the campaign of Halo 3. Actually, don't care for the multiplayer either but it's the only MMO 360 game that I have that my friends do as well. I don't have CoD like they do :(.

Actually it had everything to do with your point about expansions and DLC.
And for your point about xbox 360, the reason that its better than PS3 network, is that all the people who pay for it, know they are paying for it and force themselves to use it, because why pay �50 a year for something you wont use. The community itself on the 360 network cannot be faulted (Except maybe most of the players play Halo 3, RE5 or CoD) The Community is quite amazing. But i still prefer PS3 network, the various DLC from the PS shop, the fact we have better games (face it, without halo3 theirs nothing that the PS users are really missing out on) The fact we have more features in some areas, like DW gundam 2 on the PS3 online network, you can play war mode, on 360 you only get the versus duel thing, not the actual war mode itself in an online format.

Actually it had everything to do with your point about expansions and DLC. [...blah blah blah...]

Maybe I wasn't clear. When I said I wasn't sure, I was implying that you should explain how anything you're talking about has to do with devs releasing the same game a bunch of different times when there are viable alternatives available this gen.

"Well i mean, who wants 360 anyways?
It's the exact reason kojima doesn't want to have MG rising online, coz it's gonna charge, which isn't fair between PS3 and 360."

^^^See, I have no idea what this is supposed to convey in regards to my point...or how online-only content figures into DLC/expansions for largely offline gaming.

doomjockey, give it up. Sefiros is known to be... "special."

actually 360 wasn't your point. the first point was aimed at you, the second and larger point was aimed at the IDX.

The Halo 3 ODST does however relate to your point, its an expansion for multiplayer in essence, people will play the the storyline maybe once through but mostly its for the extra stuff. Things they could release as DLC, but they are milking us just like SE did with final mix (The point on final mix was, they released 2 prototypes, the japanese version, then the extended US EU version, then finally final mix which wasn't released to US and EU. They did it twice because of KH2. Infact, thinking about it, with the release of dissidia, wasn't the japanese version missing a few characters that we have like Basch or whoever his twin is. That must annoy alot of japanese fans too.)

Peech, Silence yourself. Your opinion is neither meaningful or wanted.

Guys, either mock the militant fanboy or ignore him. This is no fun to read.

actually 360 wasn't your point. the first point was aimed at you, the second and larger point was aimed at the IDX.

The Halo 3 ODST does however relate to your point, its an expansion for multiplayer in essence, people will play the the storyline maybe once through but mostly its for the extra stuff. Things they could release as DLC, but they are milking us just like SE did with final mix (The point on final mix was, they released 2 prototypes, the japanese version, then the extended US EU version, then finally final mix which wasn't released to US and EU. They did it twice because of KH2. Infact, thinking about it, with the release of dissidia, wasn't the japanese version missing a few characters that we have like Basch or whoever his twin is. That must annoy alot of japanese fans too.)

Peech, Silence yourself. Your opinion is neither meaningful or wanted.

The Japanese Dissidia has 22 playable characters. Just like the US version. I knew about the secret characters from that before the US version was still being talked about.

I would also like you to name the games that make the gaming library of the PS3 better than the 360. Because as far as I'm aware, the 360 still has that particular spot.

actually 360 wasn't your point. the first point was aimed at you, the second and larger point was aimed at the IDX.

Ok. Please, stop pretending it was. It's a goddamned inglorious waste of my time tbh.

Halo was fun, but I really would like to play stages other than Blood Glutch and Beaver Creek. :/

actually 360 wasn't your point. the first point was aimed at you, the second and larger point was aimed at the IDX.

The Halo 3 ODST does however relate to your point, its an expansion for multiplayer in essence, people will play the the storyline maybe once through but mostly its for the extra stuff. Things they could release as DLC, but they are milking us just like SE did with final mix (The point on final mix was, they released 2 prototypes, the japanese version, then the extended US EU version, then finally final mix which wasn't released to US and EU. They did it twice because of KH2. Infact, thinking about it, with the release of dissidia, wasn't the japanese version missing a few characters that we have like Basch or whoever his twin is. That must annoy alot of japanese fans too.)

Peech, Silence yourself. Your opinion is neither meaningful or wanted.

Nah man, you really are a tool. You're trying to make a point and you're doing it poorly. If your argument was life, you failed at it.

Go kill yourself, preferably with razor wire.

Umm... I though this topic was about why Final Fantasy VII has a divided legacy?

Anyway, In my opinion, FFVII was a groundbreaking game. Japanese RPG's had a cult following in the United States, but FFVII brought the genre to the mainstream. Many people who worship FFVII as the best RPG of all time, or the best game of all time, do so because they were very young when it came out, and the amount of content, as well as, the deep story overwhelmed them. This is why you have fanboys and fangirls who worship at the FFVII shrine.

I personally wasn't as moved by FFVII. It was a good game, but not great. I was one of the cult people who played Japanese RPG's before FFVII. The first FF that I enjoyed was FFIV. I believe that game is one of the best in the series. FFVII story was good enough, but the game has a crappy ending, and the soundtrack was arguably Nobuo's worst work in the series. The gameplay with the Materia system wasn't too bad.

I personally think Wild Arms was a overall better game than FFVII. It had just as good of a story, great soundtrack that had a wild western feel, and the ending was satisfying. The gameplay was basic turn-based, but the combat was fast and fun.

FFVII, does have more memorable characters than Wild Arms, but that's mainly because fanboys/girls became crazy about them. After all, it was also the first game where they saw a main character get killed off. (you know who I'm talking about)

However, the compilations completely ruined FFVII in my opinion. They turned the story upside down, they brought back characters that should have stayed dead. They also brought in a lot of new characters that don't even make an important impact in the overall story.

Umm... I though this topic was about why Final Fantasy VII has a divided legacy?

Anyway, In my opinion, FFVII was a groundbreaking game. Japanese RPG's had a cult following in the United States, but FFVII brought the genre to the mainstream. Many people who worship FFVII as the best RPG of all time, or the best game of all time, do so because they were very young when it came out, and the amount of content, as well as, the deep story overwhelmed them. This is why you have fanboys and fangirls who worship at the FFVII shrine.

I personally wasn't as moved by FFVII. It was a good game, but not great. I was one of the cult people who played Japanese RPG's before FFVII. The first FF that I enjoyed was FFIV. I believe that game is one of the best in the series. FFVII story was good enough, but the game has a crappy ending, and the soundtrack was arguably Nobuo's worst work in the series. The gameplay with the Materia system wasn't too bad.
....
However, the compilations completely ruined FFVII in my opinion. They turned the story upside down, they brought back characters that should have stayed dead. They also brought in a lot of new characters that don't even make an important impact in the overall story.


I quite agree. I first played FFIV on the Chronicles set, with Chrono Trigger. It's what got me into the series. When I played 7 I thought it was fun, but it felt incomplete. Then the compilations came and "tired" to fill in the holes, but really set me off the original game.
In the end, I did play Crisis Core, just to see what it was all about, and sat there at the end wondering why all these new characters came and just disappeared into the ether as far as the rest of the games were concerned.

Crisis Core was Zack's story where FFVII was more like Cloud's. Which is most likely why there are characters that appear in CC but not in the original game.

I do understand that. But I was more referring to the other FFVII spinoffs. That and the one turks, Cissnei. She started to play a larger roll at the end, but just kind of disappeared. The game itself was fun.

Hm. I'm still curious as to why it should matter.

I do understand that. But I was more referring to the other FFVII spinoffs. That and the one turks, Cissnei. She started to play a larger roll at the end, but just kind of disappeared. The game itself was fun. They only had a concise role in the story so there wasn't a meaningful way for them to stay on stage, or litterally; filler.

I do understand that. But I was more referring to the other FFVII spinoffs. That and the one turks, Cissnei. She started to play a larger roll at the end, but just kind of disappeared. The game itself was fun.

Genesis and Angeal as well. And Lazard. And Hollander. And Project G/A(is there one?)/S

Well, Crisis Core was fine itself as a standalone game.

[possible spoiler]
As for Cissnei, she doesn't do much except let Zack go and try to save him.
Maybe she killed herself/decided to lay low after finding out that he died? Since she was so determined to save him and searched for him relentlessly.
[end of possible spoiler]

I just thought it was boring as hell. Didn't pick up until the last disc. That's why I don't like it. As for the fanboys or whatever and Squeenix milking the game, I could care less. Not interfering with my daily activities so why bitch, right?

Indeed.

On the subject of the game, didn't like it, enjoyed the omnislash from the movie, the end.


Well, I hope some place is doing a deal for trading in Halo 3 for ODST. I don't care for the campaign of Halo 3. Actually, don't care for the multiplayer either but it's the only MMO 360 game that I have that my friends do as well. I don't have CoD like they do :(.

Also agreed here, the campaign in Halo 3 was fun, if nothing else to get the skulls and finish the plot line. As a gamer who loves shooters, but also loves good storylines, I can no longer stand Halo 3 for fact it's become how fast you can jump and throw grenades(online), rather then a shooter. I won't even get into the online community and the things I hear on voice chat. >< The story lacked in some places, but I enjoyed the first few months of "bad aliens with guns are coming to kill us, blow them away" plot. But after Gears of War 2..just isn't the same when you play a shooter with intense action like Gears. =P

I played Final Fantasy X first, I loved it, I played Final Fantasy VII next, and I loved it too. I'd say that if Square-Enix released a Final Fantasy VII remake for the PlayStation 3 that I would buy it.
BUT does it consume my life, or do I think it's the best game ever, and do I buy into the obsessive rehashing of a classic? No! I watched a video circling around You Tube and thought it described the fan-boys perfectly, (you know, the one where Arith beat the crap out of Sephiroth). But one other thing, I will not let Haters, trolls, or annoying fan-boys ruin my enjoyment of a good game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEqkBcj5qlA&feature=response_watch

Indeed.

On the subject of the game, didn't like it, enjoyed the omnislash from the movie, the end.



Also agreed here, the campaign in Halo 3 was fun, if nothing else to get the skulls and finish the plot line. As a gamer who loves shooters, but also loves good storylines, I can no longer stand Halo 3 for fact it's become how fast you can jump and throw grenades(online), rather then a shooter. I won't even get into the online community and the things I hear on voice chat. >< The story lacked in some places, but I enjoyed the first few months of "bad aliens with guns are coming to kill us, blow them away" plot. But after Gears of War 2..just isn't the same when you play a shooter with intense action like Gears. =P

Man this is old but I'm going to reply to it anyways. I couldn't stand the first GoW because I thought it was boring as shit with some very repetitive gameplay. I ended up selling it before I was even close to finishing the game because I was playing DoA4 way more than that. I tried GoW2 and the same thing. Glad I didn't buy it first but Blockbuster let me trade my rental for another game because I rented GoW2 earlier that day :D.

most boring page of posts ever... i just spent 20 minutes of my life reading this when i could have been doing pretty much anything else... not what i expected of a thread like this...

My opinion about the game changed significantly over the years. I played it when it first came out and I loved it for a couple of reasons. It was one of the first RPGs I ever played and I thought the story was pretty great. I had one of the best times of my life playing it with my brother.

I was a FFFVII fanboy, I'll admit it. The game had no faults. But then I grew up and I started examining the game more closely. The story was weak at certain points and the Materia system diluted the characters. I found myself not enjoying it as much as before.

But I still love it, not because of the game itself but mostly because of the memories I have from playing it when I was younger. I still play it from time to time and I can say I like it, but I recognize its flaws.

I still love it, not because of the game itself but mostly because of the memories I have from playing it when I was younger. I still play it from time to time and I can say I like it, but I recognize its flaws.

Yeah that's how i feel about a lot of games. They have their flaws but they gave me something in my childhood I'll never forget. FFVII isn't one of them though.

i played the crap out of it when it first came out. i must have beaten it atleast 8 or 9 times. now i'm just so freaking tired of 7 and the hype surrounding it. i bought AC. the story was cheesy imho. tifa was hot though...

I played through 7 a crapton of times too. I agree that it's the best game in the series but honestly there's just WAY too much confusion surrounding it. Dirge of Cerberus was great and tied up a lot of loose plot points but it untied a lot of plot-knots into a gaggle of miscellaneous story paths. Advent Children had it's cheesy moments. The writing could've been better. And Cloud's random fucking acid trips got on my nerves. It was started to look more like a soap opera than an action movie. Believe me, if I wrote the script, it would be WAY different.