Most RPG players know that the core audience of the genre is composed by teenagers, children and "tweens", what reflects directly in the settings and characters used in these games. Thing is, I believe lots of us who grew playing those games eventually grew old of these schemes and would like to experience something that isn't so "teen centered".
What RPGs aimed at more mature, grown up audiences would you guys recommend? When I mean "mature" it's not (necessarily) RPGs with blood, death and pr0n, but mostly with mature narratives or scenarios.

From the top of my head, two games that would fit the bill would be Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber (N64) and Vagrant Story (PS1). I believe lots of people could remember Final Fantasy Tactics also, but since I haven't played this one for long, I can't say for sure. =|

(And slighty more off, there are RPGs that aren't age or gender specific and can be acessible to most age groups, from young children to elderly people: namely the Dragon Quest series, and the Mother series [EarthBound, Mother 3].)

Remember anything else?

I would say Parasite Eve 1 and 2 for its adult protagonist since most rpgs have adolescent main characters so the core audience can relate. And also the Xenosaga trilogy for its adult themes.

FFT is definitely for more mature tastes, iirc. I mean it's not bloody, but it's pretty faithful to the historically underhanded, mean, and downright ruthless methods it takes to attain and keep any sort of power. What struck me about the game was the level of betrayal, the least of which is done through patricide. Betrayal of faith, betrayal of friendship, betrayal of alliances. And by the end, the corrupt are portrayed as heroes while the 'good guys' live on in infamy or find their heroic deeds simply omitted from history altogether. Tried to keep that spoiler free.

Off the top of my head I'd also say Xenogears, FFX, and SMT: Nocturne.

I dunno if you only want JRPGs, but many WRPGs make an art of the 'mature' story. It'd be unfair to leave out classics like Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, and newer games like Mass Effect. All have more mature than your average storylines.

hmm I never actually thought about rpgs for more mature audiences. The games mentioned I would agree suit mature players, I also recommend Digital Devil Saga 1&2, Valkyrie Profile: Silmeria, Persona 2 and Baroque though I'm sure not everyone would agree, these are the only games I own which I think may appeal to a mature audience.

Lost Odyssey (360) I thought definitely had a mature feel to it. And Juggernaut for the PS1 was definitely for mature audiences.

The Baldurs Gate series, The Elder Scrolls, Fallout series to name a few.

Deus Ex, The Witcher.

Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura is one.

Ah. RIP Troika.

I think shadow hearts where adult themesd as they had hidden depths of understanding to their storyline
Fallout: i think the age rating solves that situation lol

The SMT series is a good bet.
Digital Devil Saga 1/2
Persona 1/2/3:FES/4
Nocturne
Last Bible
Megaten
-------------------------------------------------

Personally I think the whole "RPG's are mature" thing is bogus in pretty much every case. Some RPG's try to be uber mature with "complex and sophisticated" storylines, but they tend to fail in my opinion. The result is they typically take themselves way to seriously and we end up with a steaming pile of cow dung like Final Fantasy XII.

In terms of RPG's that actually do this successfully, I think the Suikoden series far and away manages to accomplish this. Largely because it doesn't try to be something it isn't. Instead of spending most of its time preaching about the right to exist or whether or not there is a God, the series focuses on the individual politics and relationships that exist in a fantasy world. It doesn't try to hard. It just does.

Personally I think the whole "RPG's are mature" thing is bogus in pretty much every case. Some RPG's try to be uber mature with "complex and sophisticated" storylines, but they tend to fail in my opinion. The result is they typically take themselves way to seriously and we end up with a steaming pile of cow dung like Final Fantasy XII.

In terms of RPG's that actually do this successfully, I think the Suikoden series far and away manages to accomplish this. Largely because it doesn't try to be something it isn't. Instead of spending most of its time preaching about the right to exist or whether or not there is a God, the series focuses on the individual politics and relationships that exist in a fantasy world. It doesn't try to hard. It just does.

i'd +rep if i could. well said

Personally I think the whole "RPG's are mature" thing is bogus in pretty much every case. Some RPG's try to be uber mature with "complex and sophisticated" storylines, but they tend to fail in my opinion. The result is they typically take themselves way to seriously and we end up with a steaming pile of cow dung like Final Fantasy XII.

In terms of RPG's that actually do this successfully, I think the Suikoden series far and away manages to accomplish this. Largely because it doesn't try to be something it isn't. Instead of spending most of its time preaching about the right to exist or whether or not there is a God, the series focuses on the individual politics and relationships that exist in a fantasy world. It doesn't try to hard. It just does.

Overall I'd agree with you, but you really should try the SMT series.

^

Meh, the whole concept and anime tie-in's don't really do it for me. JRPG's are great, but I don't quite get the whole concept of the SMT series. It's one of those things where one day I might try it, but not anytime soon.

^
Meh, the whole concept and anime tie-in's don't really do it for me. JRPG's are great, but I don't quite get the whole concept of the SMT series. It's one of those things where one day I might try it, but not anytime soon.

It's not based off an anime...
There's a piss poor anime that was released based loosely on it, but that crap ain't even worth the download.


It's just the style of the games.

End of the word, survivors, getting enemy to join you as allies.

The SMT: Persona series is more about high school+end of the world.

Persona 3:FES is easily one of, if not the, best JRPGs on the PS2.

Far superior to anything SE has put out in a long time.

Personally I think the whole "RPG's are mature" thing is bogus in pretty much every case. Some RPG's try to be uber mature with "complex and sophisticated" storylines, but they tend to fail in my opinion. The result is they typically take themselves way to seriously and we end up with a steaming pile of cow dung like Final Fantasy XII.

In terms of RPG's that actually do this successfully, I think the Suikoden series far and away manages to accomplish this. Largely because it doesn't try to be something it isn't. Instead of spending most of its time preaching about the right to exist or whether or not there is a God, the series focuses on the individual politics and relationships that exist in a fantasy world. It doesn't try to hard. It just does.
Heh, can't say I agree with you. I actually loved Final Fantasy XII - I'm a sucker for most Matsuno games. Seems you're not as entertained by the whole political issues, war and backstabbing as I am. I just wish they had scrapped Vaan and Penelo, and Balthier or Basch actually was the main character as Matsuno originally intented before leaving the project...

I'll try to give the Suikoden series another go anytime soon. Only one I ever played was Tierktris for half an hour before dropping, but I don't think that actually counts as it was a spin-off aimed at younger children.


FFT is definitely for more mature tastes, iirc. I mean it's not bloody, but it's pretty faithful to the historically underhanded, mean, and downright ruthless methods it takes to attain and keep any sort of power. What struck me about the game was the level of betrayal, the least of which is done through patricide. Betrayal of faith, betrayal of friendship, betrayal of alliances. And by the end, the corrupt are portrayed as heroes while the 'good guys' live on in infamy or find their heroic deeds simply omitted from history altogether. Tried to keep that spoiler free.
Nice one. I started playing it a few days prior, and it's really good - for once I actually not only liked, but LOVED a job system!
Finished the Chapter 2, took a break since then... gonna give it a go again anytime soon.

It's not based off an anime...
There's a piss poor anime that was released based loosely on it, but that crap ain't even worth the download.


It's just the style of the games.

End of the word, survivors, getting enemy to join you as allies.

The SMT: Persona series is more about high school+end of the world.

Persona 3:FES is easily one of, if not the, best JRPGs on the PS2.

Far superior to anything SE has put out in a long time.

Oh I don't doubt that all. SE has turned into a stereotypical industry leader incapable of coming up with anything innovative in years. Probably one reason why I stopped playing RPGs altogether for about four years until recently. Either way, SE is definitely not who I turn to first these days for RPG's. Unless of course I"m looking for old-school goodness in handheld form.

I just can't get into the whole "high school" concept of the game. Personally I think it's lame. That doesn't mean it is, or that I'm unwilling to try the game at some point. I'm just not going to run out and buy it when I have a stack of games the size of the statue of liberty I want to play first.

As for the anime aspect, I didn't mean that it was based off an anime, but I know it's more anime-like (at least from what I've read) than other games and/or series. At least to the point where I know it's not for me.


Heh, can't say I agree with you. I actually loved Final Fantasy XII - I'm a sucker for most Matsuno games. Seems you're not as entertained by the whole political issues, war and backstabbing as I am.

That's where you're wrong. I do like games that get involved with politics, war, and backstabbing.

Matsuno just sucks at making games based on those ideas. Just because he throws "thee's" and "thou's" into games doesn't automatically make them deep and riveting narratives filled with betrayal and deceit. If anything it's just a cover to try and give his games this uber-cool appeal to make gamers feel as if they are part of some elitist cult that "gets" gaming while the rest of the the world doesn't. Really, it's Square's fault for letting him take the helm of their main series.

Final Fantasy XII fails because the game does not, in any way, connect the characters to the bigger conflict in Ivalice. I know Ashe, Vaan, and Basch all have direct ties to the conflict, and in some cases, history. It's just that those ties are never fleshed out or even talked about. Vaan seemingly forgets his brother was killed after the first few hours of the game. Basch's sense of duty isn't really developed until the end of the game. Ashe I just find boring as hell. I get the idea was that she was supposed to be this noble full of integrity who was torn on whether or not to get revenge or "do the right thing", but I never bought into it. There was no depth to her character and no real evolution of her struggle against what was right and wrong vs what she WANTED to do because of the harm done to her.

Final Fantasy Tactics was passable, but it's a game that tries too hard to be deep. Vagrant Story is completely unplayable which in and of itself makes it a failure. Maybe one day I'll find the time and energy needed to actually crawl through that game. Final Fantasy XII should have been awesome. It wasn't.

Personally speaking, the Suikoden series deals with the politics aspect of things far better than Final Fantasy XII attempts to.


I'll try to give the Suikoden series another go anytime soon. Only one I ever played was Tierktris for half an hour before dropping, but I don't think that actually counts as it was a spin-off aimed at younger children.

Haven't played Tierktris, but from what I've read it isn't related to the main series in any capacity at all. Suikoden III, IMO is the best in the series. The first two aren't bad either. IV is what it is, but I'm enjoying it. But then again I'm a Suikoden fanboy whore. I haven't played Suikoden V yet. Too many games, too little time.

Well if you're looking for a game with no real high school crap and just 'end of the world, Tokyo got ownd - good luck'...also, this game is hard?

SMT: Nocturne

Game is HARD at times.

Final Fantasy Tactics was passable, but it's a game that tries too hard to be deep. Vagrant Story is completely unplayable which in and of itself makes it a failure. Maybe one day I'll find the time and energy needed to actually crawl through that game. Final Fantasy XII should have been awesome. It wasn't.
Sorry, I'll just erase from my memory I had tons of fun with Vagrant Story, Ogre Battle 64, Final Fantasy Tactics, and FF12. Maybe if I hate some of my all-time favorite games you can sleep soundly tonight.

I'm not interested in discussing the quality of these games anymore, as I'm sure I loved them by my own reasons and you hated them for your own reasons. If you're still interested in changing my mind I'd advise you to give up, as you'll just be wasting your time and there won't be any - let's say, "profit" - in continuing this subject. I'm just a random guy on the internet. My own opinions won't change a thing in your life, as yours didn't in mine.

If you still have any other suggestions about games that would fit the bill as said in the original post, I'd be glad to read them. But you're gonna insist on this specific subject, I'd advise you in creating another thread.


Well if you're looking for a game with no real high school crap and just 'end of the world, Tokyo got ownd - good luck'...also, this game is hard?

SMT: Nocturne

Game is HARD at times.
Great game! Was about 15 hours in before my PS2 broke. =[
Something that (for some wicked reason) I loved was the fact that few things could be trusted. Talk to a random demon, and he might just want to rip you out for no reason. Give a monster the rare item he asks, and he might just leave you empty handed.

Gotta say I wasn't finding it all THAT hard, though. Got past the (1st?) Matador battle, and while it had it difficult moments, it was far from the horribly punishing experience I was expecting. I died more times against some Persona 4 bosses. D:

Matsuno just sucks at making games based on those ideas. Just because he throws "thee's" and "thou's" into games doesn't automatically make them deep and riveting narratives filled with betrayal and deceit. If anything it's just a cover to try and give his games this uber-cool appeal to make gamers feel as if they are part of some elitist cult that "gets" gaming while the rest of the the world doesn't. Really, it's Square's fault for letting him take the helm of their main series.

Not really. It's a solid game and solid story imo and I don't feel like an elitist for enjoying it. The betrayal and deceit are evident and the first game wasn't written in archaic script. Where the series went afterwards... Let's say the Ivalice Alliance isn't for me.


Vagrant Story is completely unplayable which in and of itself makes it a failure.

Did you get a defective copy?

shadowgate
deja vu
uninvited.
cant get more mature than those.

and yes, they are considered rpgs.

Sorry, I'll just erase from my memory I had tons of fun with Vagrant Story, Ogre Battle 64, Final Fantasy Tactics, and FF12. Maybe if I hate some of my all-time favorite games you can sleep soundly tonight.

I'm not interested in discussing the quality of these games anymore, as I'm sure I loved them by my own reasons and you hated them for your own reasons. If you're still interested in changing my mind I'd advise you to give up, as you'll just be wasting your time and there won't be any - let's say, "profit" - in continuing this subject. I'm just a random guy on the internet. My own opinions won't change a thing in your life, as yours didn't in mine.


Alright, my original response to this got deleted. Stupid internet. So I'll sum up:

I could care less if I change your opinion or if your opinion is different than mine. If you enjoy the games. Great. I didn't. I think they, and anything else Matsuno touches sucks. I came to a message board like this to talk about these varied opinions. It's fun to talk about. It's fun to debate. Don't take it personal. I'm not. It's just fun to talk about.


Not really. It's a solid game and solid story imo and I don't feel like an elitist for enjoying it. The betrayal and deceit are evident and the first game wasn't written in archaic script. Where the series went afterwards... Let's say the Ivalice Alliance isn't for me.


Yes really. Again, since my post was deleted I'll sum up. The storytelling in Final Fantasy XII is just bad. The plot devices and character interaction fail to connect the characters to the bigger picture. Despite the significance Ashe plays in the game, there was never really a moment where her internal struggle of what's right and wrong vs. her sense of duty was ever really captured. Vaan's personal vices against the empire are never explored and altogether dropped early in the game. Basch's sense of duty isn't really explored until the end of the game. It's just bad storytelling, which is a shame.

As for the gameplay, I won't harp on it as much. I just found the environments to be bland and devoid of imagination, but that's largely a Matsuno thing. The combat was a step forward, but it was too easy to just set your gambits up so that you never had to do a damn thing other than walk around. It's not the worst thing ever, but IMO it takes away from the system.


Did you get a defective copy?

No. The gameplay is just awful to the point that I'd rather stab myself in the head with a plastic knife until I bleed to death then put the energy and effort into the game.

Oh, man. Ignore list is so awesome.



If you still have any other suggestions about games that would fit the bill as said in the original post, I'd be glad to read them. But you're gonna insist on this specific subject, I'd advise you in creating another thread.

Considering this thread is supposed to be about what are some mature RPGs out there, Jrag should create a thread about the games he hates and why so he/she can continue their rant.

But to put this back on topic, are we including MMOs?

But to put this back on topic, are we including MMOs?

If it is of your liking, sure, go on ahead.

[A lot of stuff about FFXII]

Sorry, I was talking about FFT. I didn't make it clear.


No. The gameplay is just awful to the point that I'd rather stab myself in the head with a plastic knife until I bleed to death then put the energy and effort into the game.

Well, you're still with us so I guess it's not that bad, eh? Anyway, I suppose this is too off-topic so I'll cut here.


Nice one. I started playing it a few days prior, and it's really good - for once I actually not only liked, but LOVED a job system!
Finished the Chapter 2, took a break since then... gonna give it a go again anytime soon.

Yeah, it's one of my favourite SRPGs or whatever people call them now. Jobs imo are quite a bit more alluring when you can have more than 4 characters.


Great game! Was about 15 hours in before my PS2 broke. =[
Something that (for some wicked reason) I loved was the fact that few things could be trusted. Talk to a random demon, and he might just want to rip you out for no reason. Give a monster the rare item he asks, and he might just leave you empty handed.

Ah, the conversation system is great. It was my first real experience with it. My favourite moment was one of the opponents pausing mid-battle to say "DAMN. Look at that ass!" to Pixie, after which he automatically joined the team, fight over. I felt a deep understanding for that demon.

Sadly, the distrust extends to your former friends too. Usually I despise the sugary, Saturday morning cartoon way games approach friendship. But here, I practically ached for it. I actually felt quite crushed that the protagonist's friends didn't even really consider working together to stay alive. As soon as each got a taste of power, they were immediately at odds with the hero. And depending on what ending you choose, that might mean having to destroy them both. What a waste. What's worse is, had I been in that position, I'm not sure I would have been able to do the same.

Damn fine game for making me question that.

Shadow Hearts and Shadow Hearts II I would say are for the mature market, as they have a darker feel to them in contrast to some other rpg's. Shadow Hearts III on the otherhand was, to me, a waste of time. A more of a 'try hard to be like the previous game' game.

I would also recommend Konami's Vandal Hearts and Vandal Hearts II games, as they both, while having 'cartoony' like graphics and sprites, do have a mature storyline to them.

The Sega Saturn had some good rpg's as well for it's run, one of which I still have is Mystaria Realms of Lore. Similar in style to Ogre Battle, Vandal Hearts and FFT, Mystaria had your typical good vs evil, but in a way which (I was 12 when it was released here in Australia) did bug me iirc as I didn't fully understand a lot about politics etc in the story.

Shadow Hearts and Shadow Hearts II I would say are for the mature market, as they have a darker feel to them in contrast to some other rpg's. Shadow Hearts III on the otherhand was, to me, a waste of time. A more of a 'try hard to be like the previous game' game.

I would also recommend Konami's Vandal Hearts and Vandal Hearts II games, as they both, while having 'cartoony' like graphics and sprites, do have a mature storyline to them.


Shadow hearts 2 was mature until you get to the first town from what I played of it, the characters were anime styled even in personality. From this series I recomend Koudelka the cast of this game is much more interesting than any shadow hearts from what I played, but the if we are speaking about gameplay, shadow hearts is very superior.

Vandal Hearts, That game was awesome, I played very little of that game, but the direction of the storyline was very intricate and hooking. I need to finish that game. But I'm playing Suikoden I, which it has somekind of mature storyline.

I'd wish I knew more RPG of this level of mature storylines.

Neverwinter Nights can be semi-mature at times - given that in the second chapter you can sleep with 'courtesans' and one quest involves killing a guy and chopping off his head to prove that you have done the deed. On a more serious note you do get some morality choices that can change you alignment. Also you can play user-made modules in the which the maturity can vary depending on the maturity of the person who created the module.

I actually loved Final Fantasy XII - I'm a sucker for most Matsuno games. Seems you're not as entertained by the whole political issues, war and backstabbing as I am. I just wish they had scrapped Vaan and Penelo, and Balthier or Basch actually was the main character as Matsuno originally intented before leaving the project...


Man, Is this really true?, I thought FFXII was OK, but now that you mentioned this, I can see what it could have been. =(
I don't have any problem with Vaan or Penelo but putting Balthier or Basch as main characters... DAMN WHY DID HE LEAVE THE PROJECT! xD

Sorry for the Off-Topic, I couldn't help it.

Shadow hearts 2 was mature until you get to the first town from what I played of it, the characters were anime styled even in personality. From this series I recomend Koudelka the cast of this game is much more interesting than any shadow hearts from what I played, but the if we are speaking about gameplay, shadow hearts is very superior.

IIRC, Koudelka is more of a prequel to the first Shadow Hearts, as there are ties between the two games (IE the monastery from Koudelka appears as a dungeon in SH, Roger Bacon appears in both games, and even Koudelka herself appears in SH). I personally liked the characters in SH more though...


Vandal Hearts, That game was awesome, I played very little of that game, but the direction of the storyline was very intricate and hooking. I need to finish that game. But I'm playing Suikoden I, which it has somekind of mature storyline.

The first Vandal Hearts IS a awesome game, especially when you get Ash Lambert into his ultimate form, then he just pwns everything.

Suikoden I does have a mature storyline 'feel' to it, dealing with the whole 'evil kingdom oppressing the innocents and rebels joining together to combat it' look to it. Suikoden II followed on, added more depth to some of the returning cast from Suikoden I. Suikoden III never came here to Australia... Suikoden IV was weaker than the others in my opinion albeit I didn't like it personally due to all the @*&%!*!!! random encounters. The R.E. rate was increased dramatically in this one...

Suikoden Tactics... a quirky title, one I just got to have the main stream series in my collection (Yes... I realise that without III I don't have the whole main stream series in my collection... bite me.). Suikoden V, I'm still playing at the moment. I'm gonna reserve judgement on this til I finish it, but what I've played so far, I'd recommend this to any one who likes RPG's.

Yeah, Suikoden does have indeed a mature storyline. An RPG with mature storyline to mention also developed by Square. The Very First Parasite Eve.

SMT series(that has always been mature, even from its' SNES days...not only that, when it was just called MT it was mature.)
Suikoden(politics, of course)
Persona series
Vagrant Story
Fire Emblem(I know someone going to say that its' not, but when you look at the gameplay its' a life or death battle unlike every rpg...your characters actually stay dead. Suikoden has it too, but its' story based and not in direct combat like FE)
Blood Omen(PSX of course)
Diablo
Fallout
Shadow Hearts 1 and half of 2
Koudelka
FFXII. The politics and history gave it more flesh than some of the games out there that rely on bad gimmicks. Moving on...
Parasite Eve
Shenmue
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.