http://www.coolrom.com/screenshots/genesis/Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog.gif



I've played Sonic games since the day I read the comics and watch the animated series in 1994. But lately, the games & the hedgehog himself have taken a turn for the worst in my opinion.

In beginning of the last year both SEGA & Nintendo were working together to make the 2008 Olympics game "Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games" which was good, but it wasn't all about the speed blue dude. After that, they recently came out with the first ever RPG version of Sonic called "Sonic Chronicles" and what made this game go "WTH", it was the fact that they turned Eggman into an ally, not the main villain. Once the DS game came out, so did "Sonic UNLeashed", now I hated the fact that SEGA had turned the hedgehog into what he's now being called as a "Werehog". I mean they really did it with another bad gimmick like with Sonic 06. Now what I like about the game was the day time levels that were almost good enough to say that it was just the thing to keep the speedy blue hedgehog going & going. But was really disappointed with the gameplay for the night time levels which it was like playing "Shadow the Hedgehog" with the Werehog looking like a cheep version of "Crash Bandicoot", and the attacks like "God of War". Almost none of this stuff was not original, and that should have never been introduced.

Even since the "Sonic Adventures" era, I stop playing the games until when they made a game all about the "Bad-Boy" version of Sonic "Shadow the Hedgehog" which wasn't has good as "Adventure", but the storylines were incredible. On the part of which side should Shadow be, Good or Bad, you made his fates by playing the game in a certain way to know what the outcome was going be. With now, the Black Knight out has made the facts clear that SEGA no longer wants to care about their original mascot any more. I mean they care more about "Condemned", "House of the Dead", and some others that aren't about Sonic at all. I have my opinions, but what do you guys think?

For me, I'll enjoy with watch all the sonic shows I haven't seen all the way, including the comics as well. Also playing the Adventure games too.



I've found some interesting articles & videos about this topic and they are

(Article) The Great Sonic Continuity Debate by "Milo Amberlight" (http://www.saturdaymorningsonic.com/features/continuity/)
(Forum Topic) Sonic the Hedgehog Bible by "Nemesis" (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=14100&st=0)
(Video Documentary) GameTap's Retrospective: Sonic the Hedgehog by "GameTap Inc." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D9h-4vQUHM&feature=PlayList&p=9FDFDA14B6D95A9E&index=0&playnext=1)
(Video Debate) GAME OVERTHINKER v21 presents, SONIC IN CRISIS: PART I by "moviebob" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hik-TeGQIn0)
(Video Debate) GAME OVERTHINKER v22 presents, SONIC IN CRISIS: PART II by "moviebob" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YDrVRqmrLY)

My guess is that they took a page out of "Super Mario RPG" for "Sonic Chronicles". Bowser was an ally in this game rather than the main villain. It was rather interesting to use Bowser as a protagonist character. :-)

I will agree though about the direction of Sonic though. I'm not into too much anymore like I was when I was a kid, but the games these days freakin' blow. I played "Shadow" and thought the game was horrible. I didn't even finish the first level. I ended up taking the game back to Blockbuster the same day I rented it.

I actually bought "Sonic and the Secret Ring" for the Wii. Yet another corny game with a silly storyline. In addition, the controls blowed as well.

I think the problem with Sonic now is that they're trying too many different things to revive a series that has pretty much done everything it can do. Perhaps the best thing it could do at this point is go back to its roots. Not sure how they would accomplish that though.

A first person view might help....with guns.

Putting Sonic in 2D with 3D backgrounds is the best way to save that series. Fully 3D just doesn't seem to work. And they could lay off making crappy characters. It's one of the main reasons the series now sucks.

The series went down since it stepped on 3D ground, I don't think there's a single Sonic game on 3D that doesn't suffer from horrible camera angles and unbearable controls, crappy characters is the least of their problems. But yeah I agree they should go 2D with 3D landscapes.

@arigeitsu159: All I can say is that "The Secret Rings" was nothing more than a rip-off of "Disney's Aladdin", only this time its with Sonic & friends. I was too keen on "Shadow the Hedgehog", but you gotta admit that multiple storyline endings were "Genius".

SEGA isn't being original about Sonic anymore. But "UNleashed" was "Some what" pretty good because of the fast-passe Daytime levels, made in the way they needed it to be. But the nighttime ones basically bad because of three things. One, they turned our speedy friend into a "Werehog", that part made me cry. Two, the Werehog looked like a cheep version of "Crash Bandicoot". Finally, the gameplay was like playing "God of War". SEGA was just "Copycatting" other developers ideas.

At least, the comics are better than the games. Give me a sonic comic any day.

Losing? It's been lost a long time ago. Over a decade, to be honest. :(

I like old school Sonic as well. The Sonic Rush series were like good old genesis times, almost.

Still, I dont know about this 3-D backgrounds. Sure works for other games but look at the HORRIBLE controls they made for Rivals.

That's the reason why I brought "SEGA Ultimate Collection" its has "Old-School" Sonic games on there, way better than Sonic Rivals. Although, most of these developing tools from the PSP game was introduce into "Sonic UNleashed" for the daytime levels, but re-bambed.

The series went down since it stepped on 3D ground, I don't think there's a single Sonic game on 3D that doesn't suffer from horrible camera angles and unbearable controls, crappy characters is the least of their problems. But yeah I agree they should go 2D with 3D landscapes.

what?

the sonic adventures series was incredible :-(

That's not funny.

sonic adventure 1 & 2 were easily my favorite games on the dreamcast, the only other thing coming even close was soul calibur.

what could you not like about those games?

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were enjoyable at the time. Time has not been nice to them though.

If it isn't bad enough, you've now got people saying Sonic 3 was shit. :(

sonic adventure 1 & 2 were easily my favorite games on the dreamcast, the only other thing coming even close was soul calibur.

what could you not like about those games?

The Sonic Adventure games were fine overall, but the speed did sometimes makes the platforming parts a pain.

They just need to get back to basics in my opinion.

sonic adventure 1 & 2 (...) what could you not like about those games?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE these games, but I've replayed both of them fairly recently and I have to say, there is a lot to not like about those games; time has been very cruel to the Adventure series.

The Camera is just terrible. Especially in the first game.
I'd be willing to bet I've died more as a result of the camera than as a result of actual difficulty; it's THAT bad.

The physics are INSANE at times, once again, more so in the first game.
You almost cannot run through a single Sonic stage in the first game and not see crazy glitches and physics related problems.

The lip-syncing in the first game is just... just bad.
I'm not sure why they didn't just scrap the facial expressions while characters are talking altogether. Not a huge problem or anything, but it's an annoyance.

Then there are things that are just bad, and aren't a result of the time the game was made.
These being Big, Amy, Treasure hunting, a really big and empty overworld combined with little information on where to go next (this kind of exploring and Sonic do not go well together) and the lame plots that ultimately make Robotnik NOT be the big bad in the end.
I really shouldn't have to explain why those were bad decisions.

Basically, you can't say that Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 don't have flaws, because they have tons of them.
What these games ALSO have, however, is fun.
They have tons of fun, and that's what really matters in the end.
I'm not sure if it's good level design or whatever, but the games are enjoyable experiences.

This is what most of the new games lack, fun. Due either to bad design... or just plain stupidity.




If you ask me, where the series went wrong was in trying way too hard to focus on speed.

I know, I know, Sonic's roots and all, but really, have you played Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles, or CD lately?
They are all about platforming.
PLATFORMING!
Sure there are moments when you go really REALLY fast (Chemical plant and Marble Garden come to mind) but overall, you are platforming more than anything else.

What separated Sonic from other platformers was that there was absolutely no emphasis on exploration.
There were split paths and stuff, and there was the occasional out-of-the-way 1-up monitor, but the idea was that you go forward and jump over things and figure things out and get through things as fast as possible (which often wasn't very fast) to progress through the level.

Platforming, with a few short bursts of speed is where Sonic belongs if you ask me.
Sonic Unleashed (the daytime levels) is the best thing the Sonic series has seen since Adventure.
The levels are a little bland, and they are a huge improvement over other recent Sonic games. They are ALMOST really fun to play.
More variety and platforming would do these stages a huge amount of good.
Sonic Team just needs to manage to capture Sonic's sense of "comparatively" fast platforming in 3D, and they will be good to go. (I really am not sure Sonic Team is capable of doing this though, since they're sick of making Sonic games since Sega keeps forcing them to make them)




To make a good Sonic game, take Unleashed's daytime levels, add a lot more platforming, and make the controls more suited to a platforming experience, and there is a good game. That or take Adventure's Sonic levels, and improve the physics, camera, and controls. Same thing almost.
Enemies should be more than stepping stones on your way to a faster route, seriously. You should actually have to stop, and fight enemies, like in Adventure and stuff.
The 2D parts in Unleashed were a good idea, but those parts should play more like the old 2D games.

If there is going to be exploring, it should be done by Tails, since he can fly and is slow and all.
Exploring in the sense I mean, is NOT "FIND 3 *OBJECT* AND SUCCEED AT WINNING THE MISSION".
Exploring means finding your way through the level. figuring out where to go and what to do. There would be puzzles and stuff. Try to avoid "puzzles" like, go from point A to item, get item, bring item to point B to open the door.

If there is going to be fighting, it should be done by Knuckles.
Fighting should be more like a beat-em-up than what you see in Unleashed. You should actually be able to lock onto enemies, and use many different attacks, and be able to dodge things, etc.

Robotnik should be the bad guy. He should still be the bad guy at the very end of the game. HE. SHOULD. BE. THE. FINAL. BOSS.
I'm sick and tired of Robotnik constantly being betrayed by his creation in the last 2 seconds of the game, and then you fight the creation as Super Sonic, and that's it. SHIT IS LAME! SHIT IS OLD! I WANNA FIGHT ROBOTNIK AGAIN!

Shadow and Amy and Blaze and Metal Sonic and whoever else should be unlockable characters that have no place in the story.
They should simply be extra content you get from beating the game.
They should work in Sonic's, Tails's, and Knuckle's levels, but play differently and all of that cool stuff. Kind of like Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's 2 player mode stuff.

Bring back the powerups.
They added a little bit of much needed variety in the later stages by giving you new abilities to use to get through new obstacles or whatever.
There is no reason NOT to do this. They probably shouldn't still be items of clothing and stuff that make the characters look stupid, though.

Bring back the Chao.
This was one of the most addictive things about the Adventure games.
Long after I had tired of actually playing the game, I was still having fun raising Chao.
And the best way to raise Chao, is to play through the levels. ERGO, putting Chao in the game keeps people playing the game long after they stop caring about playing the levels over and over for fun.
Keep Chao karate and racing, and bring in some new things for the Chao to compete in.
Add some stuff for online play with Chao, like sending people special eggs or some other inane crap.
There is no reason NOT to do this.

NO GIMMICKS!
NO GUNS! NO VEHICLES! (except maybe for Tails, being focused on exploring and having the tornado and all) NO SWORDS! NO WEREWOLVES! NO STORY BOOK SETTING! NO 3 CHARACTER PARTIES! NONE OF THAT STUFF!
JUST YOU, ROBOTNIK, AND THE LEVELS IN BETWEEN.

Plot should be Robotnik doing things. JUST Robotnik doing things.
Really, something like the Sonic OVA's plot would be great, if you ask me. Robotnik tricks you into doing something, but it was all part of his master plan. OH SHIT! Now you've got to save the world by defeating him!
Sonic doesn't really need a complex plot. Just enough to keep you playing or something.
The game ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT take it's plot seriously. Again, the Sonic OVA does a good job of having a plot, and not sucking.

Also, if you haven't seen the Sonic OVA, watch it, man.



...I'm not sure where I'm going with this, and it's late... so whatever...
/wall-of-text

sorry sonic, but the emerlad is in another castle.

Add some stuff for online play with Chao, like sending people special eggs or some other inane crap.
There is no reason NOT to do this.

NO GIMMICKS!

I lol'd

i preferred grandia 2 and skies of arcadia to the sonic adventures

but i enjoyed them too

Grandia II > All

In my opinion, Sonic hasn't ever been good. I've always preferred Mario games by a longshot. It doesn't matter what Sonic game I play; I'll end up extremely bored.

The 2D (platformer) games just feel way too clunky to me =/ I prefer the tigher (slower, I guess) controls you get in a Mario game. The 3D games are just... awful. They normally have terrible stories, characters and gameplay. They're just not good. Granted, I've only played SA2, Heroes, 06 and Unleashed; I'm not exactly rushing out to buy them. The only times I've ever had a bit of fun in any of them are CHAOs and the daytime levels of Sonic Unleashed which, are a bit short lived. There's a reason for this though; Sega just simply can't afford to make a full-length game of 'day-time' levels. That, and the fact they also refuse to even consider development of a Sonic game if it doesn't contain at least one gimmick. Both of those statements have been made by Sega numerous times.

... Which is a bit of a shame for Sonic fans since they're unlikely to ever see those 'day-time' levels ever again; at least not at great length.

Anyway, to address a few points made in the first post:
Sonic Chronicles: What made this game go "WTH", was the fact that they turned Robotnik* into an ally, not the main villain.
I really want to play Sonic Chronicles. I've heard a lot of people praising it as enjoyable, which is a pretty great feat for a Sonic game. It comes as no surprise though really; Sonic Team had no involvement in the development of the game after all. But anyway, the fact that Robotnik is your ally in the game bothers you? The only reason I can consider it a negative is because Bioware have obviously (and openly, maybe?) taken a page out of Nintendo's (Squaresoft's) book and made the main villain of the series a temporary ally.

Of course, Super Mario RPG and the Paper Mario series aren't they only games or stories where a villain must side with his ally for whatever benefit, but they're pretty good examples. Anyway, I don't think you should really question Chronicles' plotline when you praise...

Shadow the Hedgehog's. Really? Well, I admit I've never played the game but I don't think I've ever heard anybody say its plotline is 'Genius.' I think you're confusing the fact that its story has several paths with its story being good! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though; maybe it is good. I wouldn't know~

As for the television and comic series: ew :(

Sonic has lost his speed going on 15 years now, except for smash bros.

There's a reason for this though; Sega just simply can't afford to make a full-length game of 'day-time' levels.
I'm not buying this.
I've heard it before, in interviews and the like, but I'm not buying this.
If Sega can afford to release about 3 crappy Sonic games a year, they sure as hell could occasionally make one good one out of 'daytime' levels or something like that.
Sega, imo, just doesn't want to take that 'risk', because it might not be AS profitable as shitting out terrible Sonic game after terrible Sonic game that the 'fans' will ALWAYS buy.

A much more real issue is disk space.
A Sonic game of just 'daytime' levels would be very short.
I don't think this would be a problem, but Sega seems to disagree.
Personally, I'd LOVE to have a short game that is so good I play it over and over, rather than a long game that I can't stand playing.
Fun & Gameplay > Longevity, for me.

If Sega wanted to, REALLY wanted to, they could make a good Sonic game.
I just don't think they care enough.


The sad thing is that the best representation Sonic has had in nearly a decade is Brawl.
If only Nintendo were in charge of the blue blur... :(

A Sonic game of just 'daytime' levels would be very short.
This is why it would be costly to them. They would have to make a 6 hour long game at the minimum (according to them) of levels that hardly last 5 minutes. This does seem a bit bonkers though, since it's not like any of the earlier Sonic games were all that long either. I think most Sonic fans would be happy with a 2 hour game in which you can just repeat levels for the best time and have a leaderboard. I think even I would like to have a try at something like that :o

Obviously no matter what they pump out, a Sonic fan will probably buy it. So it doesn't matter if it's the crap stuff they're pumping out now or the good stuff they could pump out; the same number of people would buy it. What's important to Sega is how little can they spend to get the same amount of return.

So I think we're both right is what I'm trying to say !

'imamonkey', & chewey make great points. I love the first 3 sonic games, after that its been all crap. I haven't played any of the newest ones that just came out though, for the simple fact that I dont take sonic games seriously anymore because all the crap games they've put out with him, so I would respectfully disagree with you chewey, well, there are still diehard sonic fans, but definitely less, so i dont think the same number of people would buy it.

But yea, a short sonic game with some effort would be great!

Says it all, really.

I'll stick with my Sega Sonic and Knuckles, thanks.

locke: you sound silly hating all the games after 3 while having tried none of them. try some of the good ones-- SA1 & SA2.

chew: what didn't you like about SA2?

locke: you sound silly hating all the games after 3 while having tried none of them. try some of the good ones-- SA1 & SA2.

chew: what didn't you like about SA2?

Way to play devil's advocate, Sarah! ;-)

I'm not just playing devil's advocate ! I really do love SA1 & 2 ;-;;

I'm not just playing devil's advocate ! I really do love SA1 & 2 ;-;;

Wasn't crazy about SA1, but I thought SA2 was pretty cool.

locke: you sound silly hating all the games after 3 while having tried none of them. try some of the good ones-- SA1 & SA2.

chew: what didn't you like about SA2?
What I liked: Chao Gardens and the cheesy rock music (after a while).
What I didn't like: All non-Sonic levels because they were awful and not fun. Knuckles and Rouge were a bit more tolerable than Tails and Robotnik but geez ~_~ they were just so CRAP. There was a lot of poor level designs in the game, including a lot of the later Sonic levels. Really didn't groove me.

locke: you sound silly hating all the games after 3 while having tried none of them. try some of the good ones-- SA1 & SA2.

chew: what didn't you like about SA2?

I have tried most of them, I haven't tried Sonic and the Black Knight, or any of the NEW Sonic games for DS. The game I played after Sonic 3 was 'Sonic Spinball', 'Sonic 3D Blast' 'sonic CD', 'Sonic R', none of those were really that good, they were actually really boring.

Mabey I shouldn't have said i 'hate' them, i just would rather fire up the first 3 or sonic and knuckles than them. ya kow

I'LL STICK WITH Mario thank you, way happier and funner, i hate wat hapined 2 sonik

I'LL STICK WITH Mario thank you, way happier and funner, i hate wat hapined 2 sonik

Excellent post.


This thread has got me thinking of the old sonic, there is A DS remake for the classics right?

I think personal that the problem is the stories always keeps changing.


Here my opinions that are some of the replies that I've found very interesting.

One: The fact that Sonic hasn't been the same since 1999 & his story keeps changing, which makes everyone completely confused.

Two: At one point that Sonic was top of the videogame chain, and Mario was on the bottom of chain.

Three: Putting in more charters, isn't making the games better.

Four: They should put back in the Chaos

Five: Enough of these gimmicks that some are completely stupid, not thought well enough.

Six: They should at lest have, Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles as the main three charters ageist Eggman a.k.a. "Dr. Robotrink" as the main villain once more, not an ally.

Seven : I don't think killing the other charters is not going to do anything, but they all get captured & Sonic, Tails, Knuckles & Amy should be the only ones to rescue them, unless they find some of the others and then they can join in the battle ageist Eggman. Plus have multiple stories of the charters that were captured, just like in Sonic Adventure 1. You know to keep things fresh & interesting.

Here one guys idea of something like this
Possible continuity/theory for Sonic by "Derek the Hedgehog" (http://www.saturdaymorningsonic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2011&sid=9a48e21c91826736e8ade657038773bb)

and here's of my favorite ones that explains the constant problems with Sonic
(Article) The Great Sonic Continuity Debate by "Milo Amberlight" (http://www.saturdaymorningsonic.com/features/continuity/)

sonic has never been on the "top chain"
mario has.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were the best 3D Sonic games in my opinion. SA1 really got me involved so much, I felt so sad when it ended.

The reason the recent Sonic games aren't as good is simply because SEGA don't focus on them as much as they did with SA1 and SA2. The Dreamcast was their console, that's why they focused so much on it, which made it a kickass game series.

sonic has never been on the "top chain"
mario has.

Sonic made a lot more out the sales of both "Sonic 1 & 2", then Mario did. According "GameTap"


Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were the best 3D Sonic games in my opinion. SA1 really got me involved so much, I felt so sad when it ended.

The reason the recent Sonic games aren't as good is simply because SEGA don't focus on them as much as they did with SA1 and SA2. The Dreamcast was their console, that's why they focused so much on it, which made it a kickass game series.

SA was and is still one of my games with including "Sonic Adventure 2" with birth of the "Bad-Boy" version of Sonic "Shadow the Hedgehog" There's a rumor that SEGA was going to make a third Sonic Adventure game, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.

Sonic>Mario

At least, back in the day. Then I played Super Mario 64.

sure, mario games are always one way or another the same game : go collect shit up.
sonic games (recent) try different things, like sonic and te black knight.
but look at yourselves, while mario is still with the same formula, you bash sonic games that try different things.

sure, i havent played a new sonic game since both adventures in the dreamcast/NGC, but im looking forward to play the black knight.

hi sonik suxs

hi sonik suxs

Very insightful.

I remember a "Sonic" game where they had an Alligator, a purple Rhinocerus looking animal... what game was that? I think it was back in the mid-90's.

Has anyone played Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood? Bioware made, so it could be a gem of an RPG. I hesitate to serve as lab rat though.

sure, i havent played a new sonic game since both adventures in the dreamcast/NGC, but im looking forward to play the black knight.

Its not worth playing, the gameplay is slow because Sonic has a sword which makes him slow down more. Combat wasn't great too, and the story was crap, but graphics are beyond incredible and they give back Sonic's favorite food "Chili Dogs", yay. It may be worth renting then buying. Post back here after you play the game yourself, and tell us what you think of it. I've already played it, to me it was another time-travel rip-off of the old Disney movie "A kid in King Arther Court" and Sonic with a sword, please. Give the hedgehog a break, darn'it. Enough of these stupid ideas and gimmicks. Let's go back "OLD SCHOOL" yo

i firmly believe sonic will not go oldschool again.
you want old school? buy one of those million in 1 genesis collection games, or DL a sonic game from the XBLA or virtual console for 1/3 of the prize of the million in 1 disc.

'sonic CD' (...) none of those were really that good
OH NO YOU DIDN'T!
SONIC CD IS UP THERE WITH SONIC 1, 2, 3, AND KNUCKLES IN QUALITY!
THIS IS INDISPUTABLE FACT!

Seriously though, it's somewhere between Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 in the way it plays, so it's pretty great.

Sonic R wasn't half bad either, once you got used to the controls.
The music saved that game.


Two: At one point that Sonic was top of the videogame chain, and Mario was on the bottom of chain.
As much as I love Sonic's old games: AHAHAHAHAHA
MARIO THE BOTTOM OF THE CHAIN?!
WHAT??

I still think it's a shame that Mario and Sonic are compared so much when their approaches to the platforming genre were completely different.


The Dreamcast was their console, that's why they focused so much on it, which made it a kickass game series.
I agree with this guy.
The instant Sonic's games went... not good... is the instant Sonic games weren't being made for Sega consoles.
It seems like Sega doesn't really care too much about the quality of Sonic's games when it isn't a selling point for a Sega system.


sure, mario games are always one way or another the same game : go collect shit up.
sonic games (recent) try different things, like sonic and te black knight.
but look at yourselves, while mario is still with the same formula, you bash sonic games that try different things.
Maybe this is just me, but I WANT "rehashing" in this sense.
When I buy a Sonic game, I WANT a Sonic game, but really, I have NO IDEA what I'm buying.
Mario has always stuck to his roots, and I love that about Mario. When you buy a Mario game, you KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE GETTING.
Even when Mario mixes things up a little, he's careful not to stray too far from what he does best: platforming, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
(Note: I'm talking about the main Mario games, no sports spin-offs or anything)

An Example:
If you ask me, this sort of thing is why people weren't crazy about Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts.
It's a pretty good game, yeah, but when Rare announced a new Banjo-Kazooie game, people expected a new Banjo-Kazooie game.
What they got instead was a completely new game, that merely FEATURED Banjo and Kazooie as the playable characters, if you know what I mean.
That ISN'T AT ALL what people wanted.


I remember a "Sonic" game where they had an Alligator, a purple Rhinocerus looking animal... what game was that? I think it was back in the mid-90's
Knuckles Chaotix.
...Why wasn't this on that "Gems Collection" thing?!
I mean they got Sonic the Fighters on there for Christ's sake!
It doesn't get more obscure than that! (I'll go ahead and ignore that SegaSonic the Hedgehog arcade game)


i firmly believe sonic will not go oldschool again.
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
The people in charge of making Sonic's games are in no way interested in making an oldschool Sonic game, even after seeing the success enjoyed by Megaman 9.
They just won't do it.
(Note: Based on old memories of reading an interview)


buy one of those million in 1 genesis collection games, or DL a sonic game from the XBLA or virtual console for 1/3 of the prize of the million in 1 disc.
UGH!!
PAYING FOR DECADES-OLD ROMS?
GROSS!

40-something genesis games in one xbox 360 disc.
i believe its called ultimate genesis collection

Very insightful.

I remember a "Sonic" game where they had an Alligator, a purple Rhinocerus looking animal... what game was that? I think it was back in the mid-90's.
That was Knuckles Chaotix on the 32X. It had Knuckles, Vector the Crocodile, Espio the Chameleon, Charmy Bee and Mighty the Armadillo in it. Along with two dud characters: Heavy and Bomb. Wasn't brilliant. Some nice ideas though.

Vector, Espio and Charmy later reappeared in Sonic Heroes.

sure, mario games are always one way or another the same game : go collect shit up.
sonic games (recent) try different things, like sonic and te black knight.
but look at yourselves, while mario is still with the same formula, you bash sonic games that try different things.

sure, i havent played a new sonic game since both adventures in the dreamcast/NGC, but im looking forward to play the black knight.

Try different things? Yeah, 'Sonic Tennis', thats really varying it up, everything the sonic series does, mario has already done, lame or not.

i put as my example the bl;ack knight because i have yet to see mario with a sword,
or mario unleashed: plumber by day, evil mob boss by night.

i have yet to see mario with a sword,
or mario unleashed: plumber by day, evil mob boss by night.
Again, my point is THANK GOD WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS STUFF WITH MARIO.
Swords and mob bosses don't belong in the Mario Universe, even LESS so than they belonged in the Sonic universe.

It's like this:
Small gimmicks that don't completely change the gameplay but manage to keep things somewhat interesting (Yoshi riding, FLUDD, or 3D space gravity for instance) = GOOD

HUGE GIMMICKS that the entire game is based off of (Teams of 3 characters, guns and motorcycles, swords, werehogs, etc.) usually = BAD

In my personal opinion, Mario will NEVER get old. I know I made to be about Sonic, but I'm say this quickly...Super Mario 64 STILL ROCKS, along with Star Fox and Goldeneye 64. Good times.

Game critic Zero Punctuation has included in his review of Sonic Unleashed that "Werehog" is actually a misnomer. "Werewolf" is derivative of "Wer-" meaning "Man". Really the only human trait is that he has four fingers and opposable thumbs, but he has that anyway, right?

Although, the soundtrack is certainly not bad. Interesting that they pulled Bowling for Soup out of the deepest part of the ocean to do their theme song. The few-and-far-in-between levels that you are running really fast, you are running REALLY fast, but even then the inclusion of ice and running across water is a pain. On the water, if you touch anything, and I mean ANYTHING , you're going down. For that matter, in the 3d games, WHY CAN'T SONIC FALL THROUGH THE WATER? He could in the 2d games; even in the Chun-Nan day stage select area WHAT? Sonic can't jump out of a pond? That thing can't be more than five feet deep. Bottom line, the water physics just suck.

Personally, I think that SEGA has tried too hard to reinvent Sonic. I mean, they tried adding a whole bunch of multicolored happy tree friends, one of them is a love interest. The developers then took Sonic's alter-ego, which apparently everyone has an alter-ego these days, and gave him weapons. Then they put them in teams of three, gave them hoverboards which they seemed to pull out of their behinds, they made Sonic get serious with a twelve-year-old girl (where's Chris Hansen when you need him?), put him in a 1001 Arabian Nights rip-off with slapped-on multiplayer, then did the whole day-to-night bullcrap that Nintendo has done many times over (just look at how many Zelda games do that), only this time with a misnomered monster just to put the cherry on top of the crapcake. Now, they give him a freaking SWORD. Look, if weapons didn't work in Shadow the Hedgehog, why does SEGA think it'll work in this. What, did Link call in sick and Nintendo called SEGA to substitute Sonic with a sword? That's what I'd rather see: Link gets the power to run really fast and has to navigate the world and get his array of weapons again. At least THAT would make more sense of the sword.

In short, just stop trying to reinvent the Sonic franchise and go back to the old days of Sonic, Tails (who was there when it was good), and Robotnik. I don't even care if there's no story.

Sonic has been 'losing his speed' since his 3D debut. Sonic games should stick to their roots. That's why Sonic 1, 2, 3, Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic CD shall always remain the best of the franchise. This roaming around in 3D stuff needs to stop.

Sonic has lost his speed because he is too damn old to be starring in any good games.

Is Sonic losing his speed?

Your question is like, ten years late to the party.

Sonic has gone from being a bastion of gaming days gone by to furfag fap icon extraordinaire.

Sonic CD = OMFG
Sonic Rivals = What is this I don't even

Though Sonic Rush was good, considering it was made by those guys that make the DBZ fighting games....and Street Fighter IV.

Your question is like, ten years late to the party.

furfag fap icon extraordinaire.
.

this.
i guess donkey or diddy kong getting it on with dixie and candy kong is considered old now.

I've been playing Sonic games all my life, first game I actually played was Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the Mega Drive when I was 4 or 5. I love Sonic, but in my view, the older the Sonic game, the better. As of late, apart from Sonic appearing in Brawl, Sonic games have been going majorly downhill. The last good Sonic games as far as I'm concerned were Heroes and the re-release of SA2, SA2B. The advances were good also, more like the class games.

But seriously, what are sega playing at? Sonic always used to be about speed, platforming and fun. These days you look at a modern Sonic game and its been pollouted beyond recognition. Werehog? Guns? Swords? Super Sonic now a knight in gold armour? Some of the best elements of Sonic ruined.

Shadow was a character with massive potential, looked good, was like a dark Sonic, huge possibilites with what they could have done with chaos control and chaos spear. What did they do to him? Stuck him in a bad game with guns and vehicles (he's as fast as Sonic, why does he need a bike or car o.O), made a mockery out of chaos control and generally to be crude pissed all over Shadow. Yea the game had a good storyline, but thats about it.

Now Sonic and the Black Knight is another mockery. My sister loves the game, I personally can't stand it. The controls are a nightmare, the story is bad (just like Secret Rings in both cases) and now Sonic has a weapon. Sega clearly ignored the fans anger and outcry with ruining Shadow by giving him weapons by then doing the same to Sonic. Also in the same game they ruin another one of the greatest aspects of the Sonic Series, Super Sonic. Instead of the classic stand up spikes and gold colour, Sonic dons a suit of golden armour that completely encases him and quite frankly looks crap, nothing like the original Super Sonic who was always a joy to play as.

Don't even get me started on the werehog. Sega should leave power to the character who does it best, i.e Knuckles instead of trying to make Sonic do everything and look terrible in the process.

That brings up another thing that irks me, starting way back in Sonic 2, sega allowed you to play as other characters besides Sonic. This came to its best when you put Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 together and got to play as each of the protagonists back then, Sonic, Tails and Knuckles and also got to use their super and hyper forms. Both Sonic Adventures and Heroes both used this element of playing as the other characters properly and gave them their own storylines that while being unique, tied in with the other characters/teams in the respective games. These days the characters we grew up with are lucky to get more than a cameo or an appearance in the game and on those rare occasions you get to play as them (Sonic the Hedgehog on 360 for example) it just doesn't do those characters the justice they deserve like the earlier games did and just doesn't feel right.

I think instead of continually making new characters, Sega should focus on and give some of the limelight to the ones they already have including some of the longest standing fan favourites. Characters I personally feel need to be brought back into it more or fixed are: Tails, Knuckles, Shadow (yes I know Shadow is playable these days still, but its in a crap and degrading way that needs a major rehaul), Amy and Rouge. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I'm confident I'm far from the only one who has it.

Like many of you have said, Sonic needs to go back to its roots, back to what we grew up with and came to know and love. I've played stupid amounts of games in my life and have many favourites, but very few of them come close to Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, two games I could pick up literally anytime and have a massive playthrough finishing it again as each character because I love them so much.

So in answer to the question, is Sonic losing his speed? Yes and no. Sonic is still Sonic, its Sega losing its speed. They are letting down and killing off a character that helped make them into the company they are today. They need to release this and fix it. If they'd just listen to their fans, that would be a start in getting one of the greatest game characters of all time back on track.

I thought the 360/PS3 version of Sonic Unleashed was alright. I think most of the problem stems from them never improving on something and just trying something new every time... or having the storyline dictate what the gameplay is like.

I mean Sonic certainly has a better track record than a video game console called the Wii to me anyway. And no I didn't like Mario 64... collecting stars in every corner of the level proved to be more annoying than it was fun.

Well, you know, not all of the Sonic games you're accusing Sega for were made by Sega, rather, they were simply made under a Sega license. Examples of this include Chronicles, the ENTIRE Rush and advance series, the wii and ps2 versions of Unleashed, Rivals 1 and 2, and probably countless others that I don't know about right off hand.

That said, the Sonic games have been losing speed for years, but the transition from 2D to 3D was was simply where it became most apparent. Why?

Well. Whether you realize it or not, Sonic games have ALWAYS been full of glitches. In Sonic 1, you could die by moving too fast and phase through loops, you could also die if you rolled under things in the wrong way. In Sonic 2, you could phase through walls in many places, the rolling glitch returns but is fixed slightly. Etc. etc. The thing is, in a 2d environment, its harder to distinguish the glitches, and there's less room to make them happen. So what happens when you plunge into 3d? You suffer many many more. Things like bad camera angles (Almost every 3D Sonic Game has these.) Phasing through objects, mislabeling of depth. All that jazz. And then, when your head honcho decides he wants this game out by a certain date, whether it's done and ready to be released or not (Haha, Sonic 06.) problems happen.

Yet Sega honestly isn't phased by any of this. Why? Well, the some old fans leave, some old fans stick around in hopes of a resurrection. But the old fans are instantly replaced by new fans. Younger fans. Sega realizes this. You can tell this by looking at almost any of their recent plots. (Cry all you need to, You'll have a mountain of handkerchiefs to help you through it.)

Sega isn't losing money on the Sonic franchise. In fact, they're probably making a large amount of the stuff. So why would they stop? To be nice to all their old fans.

Sega is apparently not very nice.

But I'm getting off topic. To be honest, Since the next gen consoles were released, I've yet to play a Sonic game that I didn't enjoy. (The Wii version of Unleashed got really really close though. I hated the Werehog. The daytime levels were really the only reason I enjoyed the game.)
That said, I've also yet to play a next gen Sonic game that I would buy. You see, I go to Blockbuster and rent these games, since they're always short. I've never ever failed to get my $3 dollars worth of enjoyable gameplay from a Sonic game. My advice to you older fans still waiting hopefully, would simply be to go rent the games instead of buying them. Sonic games are short. You won't fail to beat them in a week. (And if you do, it only costs like one dollar extra if you keep it for slightly under a month. {29 days}) If you really like them after renting them, you can go buy them. You end up paying up to four dollars more than you would if you had just gone to buy the game, big woop, you just saved like 60 dollars on the games that you just rented and DIDN'T buy.

Someone earlier in this thread expressed their dislike of Excalalahflksdjflskdfjsdwhatever Sonic, the strange knight thing from black night. I must agree with you on the whole other form thing. But I do know why they do it.

They do it because, if an attack ends up hurting Super Sonic and making him lose rings, the fanbase would implode with sheer rage. In both Darkspine and ThatSwordName Sonic, you got hit and lost rings, this was to make the boss battle much harder, for much less work. Personally, I not only want Super Sonic back, I want to have the right to go through special stages for the honor of getting 50 rings and turning into him by hitting jump twice in the normal game. Anybody with me?
Another way to ephisize Segas lazyness that is killing off their mascot was already brought up earlier.

Super.
Drowning.
Skills.

If you look at some of the new games, Sonic will die if he treads into water up to slightly above his waist. (Sonic Heroes. There's a place where this happens, I swear I'm not making this up.)

This is because making Sonic move around underwater would require for them to make the water levels twice as large. Sometimes this could be an issue of space, but more often than not it's an issue of laziness and rushing to meet the deadline.

Someone also expressed dislike for Eggman's role in Chronicles, my guess is that they

Haven't beaten the game. Eggman plays along simply to get the furballs out of the way, so that he can take over the world while they're gone saving life, the universe, and everything.


Anyway, Some of you here also said you liked the daytime levels in Unleashed, others said they missed being able to play as all of the characters. There is a.... rumor going around last time I checked, spread by some guy who everyone seems to think is a Sega employee, that they're working on a game comprised fully of unleashed daytime level-esque levels. With the ability to unlock other characters and play as them instead. Still, it's a rumor, its been out for a while, and I'm not even sure that it wasn't busted already. So take it as you will.

Sorry for the long post, I tend to do this a lot when discussing almost anything. Sorry.

Ugh... Don't even get me started.

1.) Bring back the simple Acts 1,2,3 then boss system. The Adventure games
had it ok because it'd be like do 1 or 2 levels as this character, and there's a boss.

2.) Sega needs to stop worrying about how short the games are gonna be.
What made the Adventure series good was that there were a small number of paths to choose from (well SA2 anyway, it just had hero and dark) so you didn't stress out. When a game seems like it's going on forever you feel like you have to play it, and the game's not enjoyable. Everthing went downhill when Sonic Heroes came out. Team Sonic was for normal players, Dark for intermediate, Rose for freakin babies(Seriously, it's like Sonic's levels cut in half_), and Chaotix for really long and tedious missions. Why should someone who knows how to play have to play the really easy Team Rose? Why not have a difficulty setting system like every other game?

3.)Shadow the hedgehog was a joke. Playing this game is like playing Team Chaotix over and over UNTIL YOUR SOUL DIES. Sure there's guns (as if you couldn't fight in all the other games) and cars (well running's faster so what's the point?) but none of those things matter. Sure you can choose your own ending (hero, dark and normal) but every alternate ending is deemed pointless because in the extra final ending he becomes neither Hero, dark, OR neutral. So it's a crap ending for a crap game. also I feel like Sega wanted to make the longest game ever when they made this... After I beat a story path (just one!) I look at the time and an hour has gone by.


And guesty I agree with you on the whole actually getting the chaos emeralds in special stages instead of them just being plot fodder, like for Shadow, Sonic next Gen, and Secret rings (well they weren't emeralds in that but still.)

well, tried sonic unleashed, and i agree with everyone saying the day levels are awesome.
but, i did kind of like the night levels, they offered something different.

If they made a sidescrolling Sonic game again, they should probably call it Sonic Reloaded or something like that. It would either be retro-style or 3D sidescrolling.

I think the only reason we have prob with the Hedgehogs games these days is because our mindset is towards one way and we believe that's the only things should be.
True be the ideas for the new Sonic games weren't really bad just did come out as they should like many ideas before.
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2; among best storylines I've seen in any Sonic game to date. The only real prob with them was the camera, which still plague many games
Sonic Heroes; I wasn't too fond of the game mostly cause of teamwork element and the multiplayer wasn't as good either but still was an interesting idea, the story and stages weren't too bad nor were some team attacks.
Shadow The Hedgehog; This was a damn good idea despite many peoples bitching, I just like the general idea of where was going. Using weapons, vehicles, choosing sides and making different story path, it was a different side to the whole hedgehog franchise. Alas the idea was good but the execution fell short, swinging weapons had ammo and fell off when you got into vehicle, Some vehicles were kinda pointless and some were slower than they should be, ah well. The graphics also kinda fell short plus from my personal opinion needed a lil more variety in bosses, more so the bosses at the end of each story path. The story path endings should have longer more diverse cutscene, again my personal opinion. Still overall it wasn't a bad game just need lil more work on it,
Sonic Shuffle; quite the answer to Mario Party, definitely got me hooked. The minigames were as twisted as Mario Party's and sometimes even more than, boards themselves were certainly active plus minigames that occur at the completion of the board itself. Would be nice to remake it now especially with the longer character list Sonic universe have now.
Anyway I'll stop there for now cause I really like typing a lot, but remember Sonic was design be Mario's rival, thing is Mario was lil more diversify from start, he didn't go through his first few games doing pretty much the same thing unlike Sonic whose first few games were pretty much on the same lines.
What some might not notice is that unlike his nintendo counterpart, Sonic is more towards serious side despite some of his antics from time to time. And because this our mind for Sonic lock in the thought that he should stick to sidescroll platforming. We should also keep in mind that if one is take a good look you'd notice that most of Sega's well known characters are more to the serious factor than fun factor as compared to Nintendo's whose all-stars are a bit more balanced with some being more fun and others for the more serious stuff. Because of this Nintendo has a lil more flexibility with which kind of games they make and characters to fit, where as Sega pretty much have only Sonic too be flexible with.
Don't get me wrong I'm trying to defend or bash Sega/ Sonic Team, I'm just saying to keep an open mind on things rather than knocking just because it's lil different than how it was. Things change to adapt, we may not like at first
but eventually when we give it a chance we'll find it's not as bad as we think.

*Makes a post in a really old thread...*

Oi, chaps.

I agree with all the chaps saying Sonic should go 'oldschool' again.

SEGA should take Sonic 1-3 and Knuckles, and probably even CD, merge them into one, HUGE game, add a few things, enhance the graphics (ala Sonic Advance series or even Rush), and make a platformer from there. Also bring back the way to play levels as Super Characters. Ain't nothin' better than tearin' a level up as Hyper Sonic/Tails/Knuckles in Sonic 3 & Knuckles...

That'd be nice.

Or SEGA could hand the reigns over to Nintendo, and have Nintendo show us how to make a 'real' Sonic Adventure. Or even a crossover between rival mascots...

*Imagines a game where universes collide, Eggman and Bowser team-up and create an all-new series of enemies and such, Sonic and Mario go in and condense the nonsense, and the final boss(es) will have to fought as SuperStar Mario and Super Sonic.*

Something like that.

To whom it may concern,

I would like to believe that the Sonic series doesn't like to put all its "eggs" in one basket.
The games are waning (old-school hate 'em and next-gen can only tolerate so much), but it still has a comic book series (still running, I might add) and a movie/OVA that wasn't all that bad, which is more than what the Mario series has accomplished (an subpar cartoon series, and a movie that even Nintendo refuses to acknowledge unless provoked).

I still hope that the series will return to its former glory, but Sonic isn't completely dead yet.

On a side note, cameras have advanced so much over the years that they are now able to catch up and record the Blue Blur, which may give off the impression that he has "gotten slower"...:P

I don't think Sonic is losing his speed at all. Just that going 3D ruins things. I started playing Sonic on the Megadrive with Sonic 2. The last Sonic game I played, Sonic Heroes, actually felt faster than all the 2D Sonic games I've played (on the other hand, it could've been because my Megadrive was the PAL version). Problem is, taking things to 3D ruined the experience. More than half of the time playing was spent taming my acrophobia rather than concentrating on the gameplay. Yes, earlier Sonic games had bottomless pits and levels set high above solid ground as well, but they didn't look so scary in 2D. You can't look down in 2D. Problem is, in 3D, you can look down. And god help you if you have to work with narrow paths i.e. those railings. Big screen displays and surround sound only serve to worsen things.

Is he losing his speed? Dude he lost it about ten years ago, just before Mario.

To whom it may concern,

I would like to believe that the Sonic series doesn't like to put all its "eggs" in one basket.
The games are waning (old-school hate 'em and next-gen can only tolerate so much), but it still has a comic book series (still running, I might add) and a movie/OVA that wasn't all that bad, which is more than what the Mario series has accomplished (an subpar cartoon series, and a movie that even Nintendo refuses to acknowledge unless provoked).

Mario comics. (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:%E3%83%9E%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B7%E3%8 3%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%81%AE%E6%BC%AB%E7%94%BB% E4%BD%9C%E5%93%81)

anime (http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~t-suzuki/vol.12/gma_12.htm)

Plus Mario Kart, a Mario spinoff series is more successful than the entire Sonic game Franchise.

I would like to state that I was well aware of Mario beyond the video game series.
In fact, I fondly recall the old Nintendo Comics from back in the day (of Super Mario Land) as well as a Super Mario World manga (?) that was featured in Nintendo Power, as well as the anime that few have seen.
My only regret is that Nintendo has yet to bring these back into the limelight and most people will probably only recall that movie-which-must-be-forgotten.
That is not to say that Sonic had his own flops in animation. The AoStH is often frowned upon for its over-the-top wackiness, but then again, it followed the games' classic formula (?) and no one was expecting a solid story from that. Sonic Underground, however, has no sympathy from me.
However, we are not here to praise Mario (who has recieved more than enough, and rightfully so), but to consider if Sonic still has what it takes to rise to the competition.
I still believe it is possible, but changes must be made if it is to succeed...

I'm pretty sure if Sonic's been reduced to driving a car, he's lost his speed. Anyway, if you want my opinion on the Sonic games I've played, here:

Sonic the Hedgehog classic games(1-3, S&K): I enjoyed them all, but I honestly never thought any one of them was an exceptional platformer. The speed put a good spin(no pun intended) on the genre, and it only improved in...
Sonic CD: Now THIS was a game. Neckbreaking speed, great level design(not that the originals didn't have that), and epic boss battles. If all Sonic games were like CD, I'd be a total fanboy.
Sonic Adventure: Sonic made a decent jump into 3D, imo. I really disliked his new design they started to use here. He's more lanky and humanoid, which isn't what comes to mind when I think of a hedgehog. I liked him better in his original form. Aesthetics aside, the gameplay for Sonic, Gamma, Tails, and Amy was quite fun and diverse, and the idea of having multiple stories at a time helped to alleviate the stress of getting stuck in one. I despised Big and Knuckles' stories, however. Both were very boring and tedious, and the action was few and far between.
Sonic Adventure 2: I rather enjoyed the Sonic, Shadow, Tails, and Robotnik levels. The formers retained the series' famous speed(although the rail sequences were annoying), and the latters were just really, really fun blowing the crap out of everything in your way and all. My comments on Knuckles and Rouge's stages are the same as mine in Adventure, except I'd like to add that Knuckles' rap songs are my least favorite VGMs in existence.
Sonic Heroes: Unlike most, I found this game very enjoyable. The switching between characters on the fly kept things fresh and interesting. The speed characters kept the series speed alive. It's also worth mentioning that this was the last installment of the 3D Sonic games with the original voice acting cast, sans Tails. I agree that the difficulty-based story layout was dumb. In my opinion, these actors did a rather good job at portraying their characters. Unfortunately, that all changed when 4Kids entered the picture.
Shadow the Hedgehog: This game was so terrible that I can't even think of what to say.
Sonic Riders: I HATE this game! It's frustrating to no end, the controls are terrible, and the spinning joystick segments left me with many a padless joystick.
Sonic Unleashed:The Sonic levels revived the speed the series had been missing, but I cannot stress how bad the Werehog levels were. It would have made far more sense if Knuckles was in these levels; brawling is his specialty, and his long-range energy things could have replaced those disgusting stretchy-arms.
After this, I've entirely abandoned the series to the point of no return.

Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure were both quality Sonic games. I've been playing since 1996 (Sonic 2 was actually my gateway game) and yes, he's gone downhill. I'm the kind of guy who put 120 hours of his life into replaying Adventure 2's action stages for the sheer amusement of it over the years. Heroes was the tipping point for me. It did some things right (like using RenderWare to power it, after all, the Burnout engine can handle extreme speed), but ultimately left a sour taste in my mouth. Sonic 2006 and Enter the Matrix deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence, but no other games get to be in that sentence. There's a reason why I call those "unmentionable" games.

Shadow the Hedgehog... oh wait, that's your third unmentionable title.

Unleashed was like drinking sewage water during the nighttime and soda during the day. Only the soda had a crappy camera system (again) that kept forcing me off the stage and badly executed QTEs.

What about the new "Sonic" game that's going "Old-School"?, that looks like it could finally make Sonic big again.

Not really. I feel that Mario is doing terribly ever since Super Mario 64.

wow, this is an old thread. i'm not the one who grave-robbed it though, mr evolution01 above me did. i basically concur with what everyone's been saying anyway; i loved the old games; 2 was my first, followed by sonic and knuckles, which just rocked it for me; i loved the evolution of the experience in taking the reins of knuckles, who was somewhat mysterious and had been a bad guy in 3, and now was working with sonic, a rival but on the same side, and who could punch out and climb walls and shit. blew my mind at the time. then i played the game that kicked it all off, and also played spinball - i loved the steampunk take and the chunky music, and i reached the VERY LAST BOSS but never beat him - and that tetris-like mean bean machine game.

i also read the comics - fleetway, not archie, and the fleetways were fucking immense too, great storytelling, they tried to keep close to the games' basic storylines while adding a few new characters of their own such as grimer and shorty, the squirrel who could control his badnik armour - god, those comics were great, you had the chaotix in there too, with the omni-viewer, and nack the weasel, and i absolutely adored what they did with super-sonic in them too. i've since got the mega collection for the PC and i've played some sonic 3, and plan to complete all the games.

2 games i always wanted to play but which don't feature on mega collection are sonic CD and knuckles chaotix though; they're conspicuous in their absence. there was sonic 3D too, which wasn't actually proper 3D really, but was alright fun; it signalled a move in the wrong direction though for me. the game itself featured the same embryonic, barely tangible plot that the classics had, but later games seem to have loads of cutscenes and characters and just plenty of awful shite like that. sonic was never meant to have complicated, well-developed plots with dialogue and cutscenes and all that rubbish. it was also never meant to come to earth, i mean jesus christ, who the actual fuck thought that would be a good idea? dodging killer whales in the fucking seychelles or bahamas or wherever, yeah that looks great doesn't it. running down the iconic hills of san francisco dodging cars and trams. good lord in heaven.

there were some decent ideas for characters, shadow looked like he'd be fantastic in one of the older style, simpler games. i think the whole thing is dead now anyway, trading on ancient former glories. perhaps you should just let it lie now SEGA, or nintendo, or whoever else. i haven't tried the the traditionalist side-scrollers for the xbox, mind you, the sonic 4 we were all waiting for, maybe they're good, maybe sonic should continue down that route, back to the basics that made it so good in the first place. but aside from those games, i think they should give it a rest, stop making the stupid 3D ones with guns and swords and drama RPG plots and all that jazz.

that's just me though. all of that was just opinion, really. i base it on the view that it's really too much of a stretch to take brightly coloured anthropomorphic animals seriously in the kind of standard dramatic, emotional, techy game plots i've seen in games like unleashed, adventures and whatnot. if you enjoy that kind of thing then good for you but i can't take it seriously and it doesn't work and loses what made sonic good in the first place.

My english is not perfect. Old thread or not, here are my thoughts...

To me, Sonic always sucked. Not trying to troll but I got some reasons.

The main games are a rip-off of Super Mario Bros. (NES) - Run, jump and pick shiny things.

The spin-offs sucked... Sonic using a sword?

I don't know why a lot of people thinks that he's Mario's rival, his games aren't that great.

Are those games that amazing? Ok, compare Mario's Wii games to Sonic's Wii games.

It's unfair to call him Mario's rival, there's geater plataformers than those sucky games, Kirby series and Mega Man X series are proof of that, these games are fun and original, the characters are not annoying and some bosses are memorable.

There's a lot of characters, and most of those characters are useless to the plot: Marine from Sonic Rush Adventure is a good example of that.

Sonic's universe is a copy of everything else:

Game:

Main gameplay - Super Mario Bros.
Rings - Coins from Mario.
Emeralds, world rings and many other things - Dragon balls Dragon Ball :P

Characters:

Super Form - Super Saiyan form from Dragon Ball.

Dr. Eggman - Dr. Willy from Mega Man.

Shadow - Bass/Forte from Mega Man.

Amy (look) and Cream (look and behaviour) - Roll from Mega Man.

Solaris - Royal Crest from The Legend of Zelda.

King Arthur - Black Knight from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance.

That Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is just another Mario Kart rip-off.