Aside from the Zodiac Spears and all the other rare chests and certain rare game, there was another thing I wasn't sure about.

Is there any way to tell how many Black Orbs are needed for the Subterra niches without looking at a guide?
Or is it just a guess/gamble game where putting 10 or 5 in is a gamble?

That would be quite cheap since you can always just put one at a time, so something tells me there should be a way to know, if you're expected to use the 5-10 options over that. Or is this another one of their "let's keep them in the dark" tactics?

Wouldn't something happen that tells you if you put the right number in?

Speaking of lack of in-game hints, the hunt for the marilith pissed me off where you have to wait at the entrance of the area for approx. five minutes or it won't show up.

Here are the number of black orbs you need for each altar... Note that when it says South West, it means when you are looking at the map itself...not from the elevator...



Penumbra: NE- 18
SE- 3
NW- 9
SW- 6
Umbra: North-East: 15
North-West: 9
South-East: 15
South-West: 18
Abyssal
North-East: 15
North-West: 21
South-East: 27
South-West: 12

EDIT: If you are looking for a way to tell how many you need without using this list, then I can't think of anyway other than maxing out the number of black orbs you can carry, and then put them in one by one...but I find this list easier...plus it keeps the Nightwalkers away...

This is slightly off topic, but I can't seem to go down a level in the Subterra. I'm in the Penumbra currently, have inserted the right number of Black Orbs in each altar, and fought the Phoenix, but Umbra won't appear as a destination on the elevator. Is there something else I have to do?

No hints there. Just pure observation. Unless I'm wrong which I could be because I never actually checked it. It just gives that feel. Anyway. Start by putting only 1 orb each time. When it first lights then multiply this number with 3 and you'll have the number of total orbs you must put. For example if it lights at 3 orbs then the total number of orbs that it needs is 9. If it's 2 to make the faint light appear then the total is 6 and so on. That is assuming I'm right. Seeing that the numbers that Hawkeye has posted above are all multiples of 3 then this could actually be right but even though I have saves in that area I'm too lazy to confirm it. :-)

This is slightly off topic, but I can't seem to go down a level in the Subterra. I'm in the Penumbra currently, have inserted the right number of Black Orbs in each altar, and fought the Phoenix, but Umbra won't appear as a destination on the elevator. Is there something else I have to do?

Are you sure you've put all the black orbs? Cause there are 2 "stages" for the lights. By putting orbs a faint light appears. If you continue and put more orbs you get a bright light which is what you need to proceed.

Speaking of lack of in-game hints, the hunt for the marilith pissed me off where you have to wait at the entrance of the area for approx. five minutes or it won't show up.

There is a hint for that; it says in the Clan Primer that you have to perform a 'thorough search' for it, and the Tavernmaster also says when you speak to him about it that he'd have found it if he hadn't had to run back to his tavern so quickly.

As for Black Orbs, I haven't really looked around in the Subterra much, so can't really comment.

Wouldn't something happen that tells you if you put the right number in?

Speaking of lack of in-game hints, the hunt for the marilith pissed me off where you have to wait at the entrance of the area for approx. five minutes or it won't show up.

If you think about it though, snakes see by looking for heat signatures. Standing in the sun to warm yourself up would make you contrast very nicely against the dark, cold cave walls.

Expecting Harkus to think that deeply is asking too much, though.

Expecting Harkus to think that deeply is asking too much, though.

What is the point? This contributes nothing to the thread.

Even if you do get those hints it's still not exactly easy to figure out that you have to wait for 5 minutes at the entrance.

It still qualifies as a hint...

Rare Game are one thing but EVERY mark hunt has an in-game hint attached to it. Name one that does not.

Sure the Pylraster and Yiazmat don't say where they reside, but at least they're THERE and you don't have to do something to make them appear, just see where they are.

Even if there IS a lack of in-game hints, Ma'kenroh ALWAYS hints about where to find certain Marks and how to spawn them, I'm sure he says something about Marlith. As for what, I can't exactly say for sure. You have to have accepted the hunt for it but not defeated, if anyone has a save file there, find out will you.

I'm pretty sure he says something about the Carrot's spawning, even though Kjrn hints it as well. I also believe he hints at how to find Deathscythe which is also rather tricky, I don't remember what's said. I don't think Popol does, and if he does it's VERY mildly.

Yeah, I asked Ma'kenroh about the Marilith hunt and he basically gives the game away. He doesn't say exactly how long you need to stay there, but he says you need to stay put for a while.

Are you sure you've put all the black orbs? Cause there are 2 "stages" for the lights. By putting orbs a faint light appears. If you continue and put more orbs you get a bright light which is what you need to proceed.

Thanks for the advice - I'll try it next time I'm there.