Okay, it's been a while (about 4 years) so I thought it was time for another poll. Also it would be great if you could post as well as vote, so that we understand why you chose that option and what makes you truly believe that they are the greatest and most evil villain in late Final Fantasy history. :)

My vote goes for Kefka, because of his sheer craziness. He also succeeded in destroying the world, and no other villain has done that. So Kefka, you rock my world! :D

My vote also goes to Kefka. Simply because I like how Final Fantasy VI had a live theater type of setting to it, making Kefka a mad clown type of tragic character, even though he was a compete maniac.

My vote also goes to Kefka. Simply because I like how Final Fantasy VI had a live theater type of setting to it, making Kefka a mad clown type of tragic character, even though he was a compete maniac.

+1,

definitely, Kefka was the best villian out of all those, he actually accomplished what he set out to do, so yes definitely kefka.

Sephiroth - for actually having reasons for what he did and not being a villain from the very start.

Sephiroth - for actually having reasons for what he did and not being a villain from the very start.

Because neither Kefka, nor Kuja had any reasons whatsoever for their actions

Kuja, He was very entertaining and captivating.

Kuja

Sephiroth can't get 2nd place.......

Please people.

Now he doesn't, since I voted Kuja.

Kefka

Mad clowns, ftw.

My vote goes for Kefka, because of his sheer craziness. He also succeeded in destroying the world, and no other villain has done that. So Kefka, you rock my world! :D

Kuja

He destroyed the planet Terra.

Semyour cause his hair was weird. You have to be REALLY evil to have hair like that.

Hm, I guess I'll go for Kuja.

If he was an option, I'd vote for Godzil-- uh Sin.

My vote goes for Kefka, because of his sheer craziness. He also succeeded in destroying the world, and no other villain has done that. So Kefka, you rock my world! :D
He also poisoned Doma, killed General Leo and Gestahl, and had that awesome villain laugh. Kefka was totally hardcore.

Kefka....because I'm to lazy to say why

Only one vote for ff espanol? ; ;

Also, Kefka. 'Cause none of the others are so dancing mad. :love:

Everyone knows that Mexican was by far the best villian ever.

Everyone knows that Mexican was by far the best villian ever.

QFT

Also, you're missing the villains of FF1-FF5. =P
And Sephiroth is no villain, he's just a little boy with Oedipus complex.

Kefka, hands down. Pure evil, in my opinion, more evil and rutheless than even Sephiroth, although, Sephiroth is probally the only real Final Fantasy villan that I would say may stand a chance against Kefka in the "I am fucking evil" scale.

Where's Golbez?

Kuja. I've said why too many times before. You know why if you know me. And if you don't know me, I don't care about you.

Can you dig it?

Couldn't decide between the K-villians.

So I tossed a coin, and Kefka won.


Where's Golbez?

Actually where is Golbez? I still don't believe Zemus/Zeromus was the villian of FFIV, he was basicially a Necron/Cloud of Darkness with little more detail added in as a manipulator.

IV is not between VI and XII.

I voted Kefka, btw.

Yeah I know he isn't in the games between VI and XII.

I have to say though that it is pretty stupid to keep on leaving out most of the classic games. And I know it's most likely due to the fact that most people came on board with FF VII, which is unfortunate.

People will have to learn that Final Fantasy started from Final Fantasy, not Final Fantasy VI or VII.



My vote still goes to Golbez.

Of course it`s Seymour! Seymour is gay and that`s what makes him the best of all.

Just imagine all things that happened between him and Tidus behind the scenes.

Of course it`s Seymour! Seymour is gay and that`s what makes him the best of all.

Just imagine all things that happened between him and Tidus behind the scenes.

lol. im getting some real freaky thoughts right about now.

btw, my vote is for Kefka

Kefka succeeded in becoming a deity, remodeling Earth to his liking, create a gigantic freaking tower out of rubble, and other things just because he wanted to. My vote goes to him because of that.

Sephiroth (FFVII)

Scarlet.
She smacked my bitch up.

I voted Kefka for one reason: What would you think about a guy who asks his men to clean his boots full of sands in the desert... ? His laugh is horrible too !!! He is definitly Evil.

Yeah I know he isn't in the games between VI and XII.

I have to say though that it is pretty stupid to keep on leaving out most of the classic games. And I know it's most likely due to the fact that most people came on board with FF VII, which is unfortunate.

People will have to learn that Final Fantasy started from Final Fantasy, not Final Fantasy VI or VII.



My vote still goes to Golbez.

I agree 100 percent with this statement. From now on, future polls should include all the Final Fantasy's unless you pacifically say otherwise.

unless you pacifically say otherwise

Isn't the title of the thread 'Best Final Fantasy Villain 2008 (VI-XII)'?

It is, and it's almost always like that.

People keep on forgetting the first entries in the series, because they didn't play them, or just don't like them.



It's like you'd have a poll on a Final Fantasy forum asking what is the best character of the series, but then mention "in FF IV-VI-VII and IX".

That's stupid. If you want to ask for the greatest Final Fantasy villain of all time, there's absolutely no logical reason to leave out the villains from the games prior to VI.

Isn't the title of the thread 'Best Final Fantasy Villain 2008 (VI-XII)'?

some how I missed that.

some how I missed that.

Man, you really need to change your name.

Man, you really need to change your name.

Umm nah. The All Seeing Eye ignores the BS!

Poll Options
Who is the greatest FF villain of all time?

It is intriguing how games prior to FFVI are left out. Meh, I could care less about them anyway. Most were just by-products of some major villain you kill about half-way through the game or before that anyway.

Shuyin is cool and a bit crazed!

we've only been over this like, 10,000 times.

FF - FFV were left out because I haven't got around to playing all of them yet. For the same reason FFXI was also left out...simply because I haven't played it.

I refuse to create a poll that I am not fully knowledgable about, especially on an FF forum.

In regards to some earlier posts, yes I am VERY AWARE that Final Fantasy started at 1 and not at 6.

Especially on a FF Forum?

On a FF forum, if you're to make a poll titled "Best FF villain of all time" the least you should do is know the entire TIMELINE of the series.

FF VI-XII isn't really what could be called "of all time".

I can't believe you are disputing the title of the thread.

Are you seriously that jaw-droppingly bored?

Are you seriously that jaw-droppingly bored?

Yes. Yes we are.:rolleyes:

Weren't you bored when you created that poll?

And I think you misused the expression "jaw-dropping".

I'm not getting into an argument about this thread.

I created a thread with a poll, either you choose to post your opinion and vote on the topic, or not.

I already posted my opinion, and I didn't vote.

Really, this is all veering quickly off topic.

Obviously, you can interpret the question like so: "Who is the greatest FF Villain among FFs VI-XII?"

There's no need to argue the semantics. Another poll can be created for the umpteenth time to include all FF villains from I-XII, through Mystic Quest, through Legend, through Tactics, through Crisis Core, through etc.

It was fun while it lasted though.

Quina. Seriously guys, what other character would try to eat a cute little Moogle?

haha yeah Quina is pretty evil :o

Because neither Kefka, nor Kuja had any reasons whatsoever for their actions

I chose Sephiroth too. However, I agree with your statement too. It's kind of illogical to say that neither Kefka, nor Kuja had any reasons.

I chose Sephiroth, not because he's an "OMG uber bad ass," like many people who choose him. I chose him, because I can relate to him in a lot of ways, minus the mother complex, since I hate my mother and hope she gets hit by a train.

It's kind of hard to explain, really. I suppose you would just have to be me. I think he's a rather deep character, and that's over-shadowed by the fact that a lot of fanboys are superficial and have no legit reasons for liking him. I understand everyone's view on him though, and I hold no one at fault for disliking him.

Lol great poll but its hands-down for Kefka,the manaic laughter,the manaic mind that warps him to do such evil stuff-kill the emperor,possess people(terra),poison the water,and to top it off,destroy and take over the world!!!He has beat all the other selections in the poll in his objectives and to make it even sweeter for himself,the damage he has caused remains the same XD

I chose Vayne because he killed his own father and was theatening to kill his brother, too and laughed at the whole ordeal. That's pretty evil.

Plus, I think I've played more XII than any of the others, so I may be a little bias.

I chose Sephiroth too. However, I agree with your statement too. It's kind of illogical to say that neither Kefka, nor Kuja had any reasons.

I chose Sephiroth, not because he's an "OMG uber bad ass," like many people who choose him. I chose him, because I can relate to him in a lot of ways, minus the mother complex, since I hate my mother and hope she gets hit by a train.

It's kind of hard to explain, really. I suppose you would just have to be me. I think he's a rather deep character, and that's over-shadowed by the fact that a lot of fanboys are superficial and have no legit reasons for liking him. I understand everyone's view on him though, and I hold no one at fault for disliking him.

rofflin at this

do you go around like a whiny faggot and wear generic capes and carry impractical swords?

also, pleasantly surprised that Sephiroth only has 7 votes.

do you go around like a whiny faggot and wear generic capes and carry impractical swords?


Is your sex hard to define at first glance (and sometimes maybe even with second)?

Do you like killing dads and you have weird blue hair?

Do you like killing dads (and brothers if that suits your plans) and you have straight, long hair?

Are you wearing a clown�s/joker�s outfit and still managed to escape from wherever they had locked you in?

Did you notice lately having unnatural obsessions with time?

Where is Lenne?=)

Sephiroth.

I have played all of the main series (bar II and III), and none of the other villains have stood out as much as Sephiroth. The whole 'whiny emo with the mother complex' business; when does Sephiroth whine? And also, dismissing it as an oedipus complex is a very simplistic way of looking at it, there's more to it than that.

Also, why is it that so many of the people feel the need to qualify their choices against Sephiroth?

Please, expand on Sephiroth's oh-so deep character traits.

Edit: Post #4,000 and it means NOTHING!

Please, expand on Sephiroth's oh-so deep character traits.

Edit: Post #4,000 and it means NOTHING!

Man, I'm not here to do that kind of thing for you. There are translations of the Ultimania guide available online and you can find them yourself, I'm sure.

So, in other words, your claims hold no water.

Figures...

So, in other words, your claims hold no water.

Figures...

Lol, an obvious, logical and correct conclusion. Congratulations!

Well, I certainly won't believe you. You say his character has more depth than just the mother complex he obviously possesses. Yet when questioned you say, "Oh, go find it yourself."

Seriously, back up your fucking argument.

Look I'm open to sw291's opinion of his favourite villan and I understand that it is up to their discretion of whether they wish to enlighten us on the reasons why.

But clearly Kefka > all.

Sephiroth.

I have played all of the main series (bar II and III), and none of the other villains have stood out as much as Sephiroth. The whole 'whiny emo with the mother complex' business; when does Sephiroth whine? And also, dismissing it as an oedipus complex is a very simplistic way of looking at it, there's more to it than that.

Also, why is it that so many of the people feel the need to qualify their choices against Sephiroth?

Welcome to FFShrine, sw291. The reason noskill (aka Swami) gave you the responses he did was because Sephy fans and fanboys with very low post counts are a dime a dozen on FFS. Usually, they're not much more than drooling idiots who typ lyke dis yo. You, however, seem to have promise as a useful poster here. Moar posts plz. ;)

Since you seem like a fairly intelligent person, I'd like to know why you think Sephy is deeper than his haters make him out to be, because frankly, in my several playthroughs, I missed it. Once you get past the superficial, kind of cool stuff about him, what's really there that makes him better than villains like,say, Kefka and Kuja? I'm asking because you seemed like you wanted to start a bit of a discussion, but if I'm wrong and you were just throwing your opinion out, then nevermind. That being said, if you were at all interested in discussion, "go find it yourself" is a completely unacceptable way to make a point, and is a pretty good way to get yourself flamed.

edit: I just looked at the poll, and who the heck voted for Ultimecia? I mean, I sure don't like Sephy, but a token BBEG is the "best FF villain?" Please!

I like Kefka and Kuja best out of all them. But I chose Kefka, just cos he wins in my book for his crazy outfit and great theme. Not to say Kuja doesn't have a good character theme also.

But clearly Kuja>Kefka> all.

Fix'd

Since you seem like a fairly intelligent person, I'd like to know why you think Sephy is deeper than his haters make him out to be, because frankly, in my several playthroughs, I missed it. Once you get past the superficial, kind of cool stuff about him, what's really there that makes him better than villains like,say, Kefka and Kuja? I'm asking because you seemed like you wanted to start a bit of a discussion, but if I'm wrong and you were just throwing your opinion out, then nevermind. That being said, if you were at all interested in discussion, "go find it yourself" is a completely unacceptable way to make a point, and is a pretty good way to get yourself flamed.

edit: I just looked at the poll, and who the heck voted for Ultimecia? I mean, I sure don't like Sephy, but a token BBEG is the "best FF villain?" Please!

Thank you Psycho_Cyan. Incidenally, I auditioned for the part of Cyan (among others) for fleetingsight's fandub. http://youtube.com/watch?v=dINP3XqzB_4 Pretty silly!

To be fair, I didn't say 'go find it yourself', and I said what I said because I didn't think swami cared for a discussion on the matter. But, fair enough!

For a start, Sephiroth has less of an Oedipus complex and more of a God complex - something I think he shares with Kefka. I found Sephiroth's plans interesting (it seemed such a convoluted method, which of course will be something annoyed other players). Also (and I know that I'll get trolled or flamed for this), as the player, I felt as though I personally had been wronged by him, via the destruction of Nibelheim, his complete disregard for the entirety of humanity and (here it comes, not going to be able to live this down lol) the killing of Aeris. Yep, Kefka completely rearranged the world, poisoned the population of Doma, killed Leo, committed genocide on Espers but I have never been able to empathize with the characters as much as I could with VII. Even though they were stereotypes.

NB - that's not me saying 'Oh Cloud is so kewl man' whilst I play with my emo fringe. He's not particularly cool, and I don't have a fringe.

I'm well aware that my main reasons for preferring Sephiroth are subjective ones, revolving around my personal player-characters relationship which is why Sephiroth is my favourite (or least favourite, however you want to phrase it) and not the best.

What does BBEG mean?

BBEG means big boss at the end of game


I'd like to know why you think Sephy is deeper than his haters make him out to be, because frankly, in my several playthroughs, I missed it. Once you get past the superficial, kind of cool stuff about him, what's really there that makes him better than villains like,say, Kefka and Kuja?

Because at the end of the game he’s not the same person as the one he started out. And he was actually given reasons that explained this change. He begun as a cold and kinda introverted guy (not as much as Squall of course) and later he discovers his origins and the experiments that made him and it was something that he couldn’t bear (at first). In a burst of rage he destroys Nibelheim and sets out in a personal quest to take back what he thought was rightfully his and his ancestors’. Learning about the experiments is what filled him with hatred but it was the nature of the experiments (wanting to make people with the power of the Ancients-even though Jenova is later revealed not to be one) that filled him with this unsurpassable arrogance and made him conceive his wanna-be-god plan. After that, everything that would enable him to come even a step closer to fulfiling his plan was disposable – from a human being to the very life of the planet. And because of that he can officially be called evil – something which he was not at first. This “character transformation” is what adds depth to him. Something else. Remember Cecil? These two characters share a similarity. They both changed (to different sides each) and it was a change that was supported with reasons. He was a loyal subject who did anything his king ordered him without ever doubting him. But when his morals started getting in the way he begun to question the king and eventually denouncing his methods and following his own path – that of his personal justice. So if you call Sephiroth’s character superficial you’d have to call Cecil’s character superficial too (just pointing that out).
Now let’s take Kefka. Have you noticed that almost everyone who likes him mentions things such as he poisoned this or killed that? These are all actions. As in real life, it’s reasons that define a person (character here) not actions nor words. And Kefka has no reasons. Comparing to reasons actions can be considered superficial and that’s why Sephiroth is better than Kefka.

So if you call Sephiroth�s character superficial you�d have to call Cecil�s character superficial too (just pointing that out).
Now let�s take Kefka. Have you noticed that almost everyone who likes him mentions things such as he poisoned this or killed that? These are all actions. As in real life, it�s reasons that define a person (character here) not actions nor words. And Kefka has no reasons. Comparing to reasons actions can be considered superficial and that�s why Sephiroth is better than Kefka.

I don't agree with that, but the thing about the character development is sound.

Wait a second, DreinIX... you're saying that entire reason you claim Sephiroth is better is because you actually see what makes him go loopy? By that standard, I suppose Jon Irenicus is a poor villain just because everything you learn about his past is picked up second-hand. Of course, that would be a completely moronic claim since Irenicus is usually held up as a truly exceptional villain with very little dispute on the matter (unlike Sephiroth, whose fanbase is usually pretty retarded), so I'm just going to declare your entire point dead right now instead of systematically disassembling your entire post in the most humiliating manner possible.

Wait a second, DreinIX... you're saying that entire reason you claim Sephiroth is better is because you actually see what makes him go loopy?

Do I really have to say it again? A villain who has been given reasons for what he does has to worth more than someone who destroys for the sake of destroying or because he's mad (or ruthless). Now, if a character's (whether villain or not) personality has been further explored (or maybe getting an insight on what he thinks) I would still put him on the same level as a character who has reasons. I believe you're satisfied now cause there's really nothing more to say here.



so I'm just going to declare your entire point dead right now instead of systematically disassembling your entire post in the most humiliating manner possible.

I would prefer you did the later. I think long posts are troublesome but come on. This time it may be fun (maybe).

I don't have time for it at the moment, but maybe I'll be able to indulge in a bit of verbal fisticuffs later. For the moment, I'm just going to point out that many of the greatest villains of all time have been barely more than a force of nature.

Take Darth Vader, for example. Prior to the prequels, we had virtually no information on why he went bad. We just knew that he did, and that he was badass, and that it was enough. Digging into his origins badly hurt the character, if anything.

Kane from the Command & Conquer series was another good example of that. In the beginning, he was a fairly enigmatic figure who made an indelible mark among gaming's villains. As subsequent games fleshed him out, he became less appealing to a lot of people.

I can go on with this, but I think one example apiece from film and gaming is sufficient to make the point.

I voted Vayne. Why? Because he's not the EXACT SAME CONCEPT of villain we get over and over again.

Plus, his villainous traits and motives don't revolve around something supernatural, he can pass for a non-video game villain.

I don't have time for it at the moment, but maybe I'll be able to indulge in a bit of verbal fisticuffs later. For the moment, I'm just going to point out that many of the greatest villains of all time have been barely more than a force of nature.

Take Darth Vader, for example. Prior to the prequels, we had virtually no information on why he went bad. We just knew that he did, and that he was badass, and that it was enough. Digging into his origins badly hurt the character, if anything.

Kane from the Command & Conquer series was another good example of that. In the beginning, he was a fairly enigmatic figure who made an indelible mark among gaming's villains. As subsequent games fleshed him out, he became less appealing to a lot of people.

I can go on with this, but I think one example apiece from film and gaming is sufficient to make the point.

Darth Vader was badass? I've read quite a lot of posts saying that Sephiroth being "badass" is an invalid and shallow reason for liking him. Anyway, I agree that he was threatening and intimidating without any knowledge of his character. Let's be clear; the prequels were pretty bad, but they didn't ruin Vader, they just changed him. It's like Rochester in Jane Eyre; reading Wide Sargasso Sea completely changes one's interpetation of him - but it doesn't ruin it. Likewise with Vader. He goes from being an impersonal force of nature to being a tragic anti-hero, similar to Greek tragedies (but his motives did suck, and the screenwriter and actors should all be shot).

And even if it did ruin him, it does't follow that any villain who receives the similar treatment of having his background revealed is also ruined. And it doesn't invalidate that as a reason for Sephiroth being someone's favourite villain.

Sephiroth.

I have played all of the main series (bar II and III), and none of the other villains have stood out as much as Sephiroth. The whole 'whiny emo with the mother complex' business; when does Sephiroth whine? And also, dismissing it as an oedipus complex is a very simplistic way of looking at it, there's more to it than that.

Also, why is it that so many of the people feel the need to qualify their choices against Sephiroth?

Play the game again/read the script. He is extremely whiny and the whole dialouge he has in the flashback scene reeks of it.

Also, bear in mind that in my near 4 years of posting here, 99% of posts here are fanboy drivel. You are pretty much the first to actually have an educated and well thought out opinion.


Thank you Psycho_Cyan. Incidenally, I auditioned for the part of Cyan (among others) for fleetingsight's fandub. http://youtube.com/watch?v=dINP3XqzB_4 Pretty silly!

To be fair, I didn't say 'go find it yourself', and I said what I said because I didn't think swami cared for a discussion on the matter. But, fair enough!

For a start, Sephiroth has less of an Oedipus complex and more of a God complex - something I think he shares with Kefka. I found Sephiroth's plans interesting (it seemed such a convoluted method, which of course will be something annoyed other players). Also (and I know that I'll get trolled or flamed for this), as the player, I felt as though I personally had been wronged by him, via the destruction of Nibelheim, his complete disregard for the entirety of humanity and (here it comes, not going to be able to live this down lol) the killing of Aeris. Yep, Kefka completely rearranged the world, poisoned the population of Doma, killed Leo, committed genocide on Espers but I have never been able to empathize with the characters as much as I could with VII. Even though they were stereotypes.

NB - that's not me saying 'Oh Cloud is so kewl man' whilst I play with my emo fringe. He's not particularly cool, and I don't have a fringe.

I'm well aware that my main reasons for preferring Sephiroth are subjective ones, revolving around my personal player-characters relationship which is why Sephiroth is my favourite (or least favourite, however you want to phrase it) and not the best.



I can respect this.


I don't have time for it at the moment, but maybe I'll be able to indulge in a bit of verbal fisticuffs later. For the moment, I'm just going to point out that many of the greatest villains of all time have been barely more than a force of nature.

Take Darth Vader, for example. Prior to the prequels, we had virtually no information on why he went bad. We just knew that he did, and that he was badass, and that it was enough. Digging into his origins badly hurt the character, if anything.

Kane from the Command & Conquer series was another good example of that. In the beginning, he was a fairly enigmatic figure who made an indelible mark among gaming's villains. As subsequent games fleshed him out, he became less appealing to a lot of people.

I can go on with this, but I think one example apiece from film and gaming is sufficient to make the point.

Hannibal Lecter would say otherwise.

Saying something is badass isn't necessarily a bad thing or particularly shallow. In the case of Sephiroth, it would be based around nothing but his generic fantasy villain design, so that's a huge point of fail, but in cases like Darth Vader, he was meant to be scarcely more than an imposing and menacing presence. As for the prequels changing him, that goes into the "if anything" part of my last post. For most people I've ever heard discuss the issue, either their perception of Vader remained unchanged or was negatively affected. I've very seldom heard anyone say that the character improved as a result.

Play the game again/read the script. He is extremely whiny and the whole dialouge he has in the flashback scene reeks of it.


I am replaying it at the moment actually (for the first time in about... 5 years I think), but I've not reached any of the Sephiroth scenes yet. As I said I don't recall him being whiny, but if I'm proved wrong I will retract it! I've already found myself cringing a little at some of the script, such as Barret's constant use of 'fool'.



Also, bear in mind that in my near 4 years of posting here, 99% of posts here are fanboy drivel. You are pretty much the first to actually have an educated and well thought out opinion.

Thank you, that's very kind :)



Saying something is badass isn't necessarily a bad thing or particularly shallow.

I agree, and that was my point - though I didn't do a great job of making that clear woops! As for Sephiroth supposedly being badass because of his design... if someone said that to me, I would flame them on that. My mum could wear some black leather strappy thing, and she still wouldn't be badass. So, definitely a huge point of fail! If I were to say that Sephiroth is "badass" it'd be based on what I said earlier.



he was meant to be scarcely more than an imposing and menacing presence. ~~~~~ For most people I've ever heard discuss the issue, either their perception of Vader remained unchanged or was negatively affected. I've very seldom heard anyone say that the character improved as a result.

I reckon he was better as a presence too, but that's because I preferred him before they humanised him. When people are saying their perception was negatively affected, what they're really saying is that they preferred their interpretation of him as it was before the prequels, which is fair enough. But entirely subjective. Just like I prefer Rochester in Jane Eyre to Wide Sargasso Sea, but I have friends who think otherwise. One cannot reasonably say that an interpretation of Vader (or Rochester, or Sephiroth or any character) is objectively better than another.

I don't remember Rochester being much of a villain. =/

I don't remember Rochester being much of a villain. =/

He wasn't a villain in Jane Eyre. In Wide Sargasso Sea, Rochester strips Antoinette of her identity by renaming her Bertha, drives her mad with grief after he rejects her on racial grounds and locks her in his loft.

Also, I think he rapes a servant girl, though I can't remember, it's been a while.

But I'd say that all that is pretty villainous!

Ah I see. That is pretty villainous.

Since I am rather late coming into the thread and a lot of what I would have said has already been said by others I'll keep this fairly brief.

My vote goes to Seymour. I have never been a huge fan of villains purely because of their achievements, and do not think Kefka deserves to win just because he achieved his goal. Vayne ultimately achieved his goal, yet he has few votes, albeit that Vayne's goal involved less mass destruction than Kefka's. Regardless, achievements are less important than the actual character of the villain, in my opinion.

Of all the villains in the FF series, Seymour seems to me the most complete in terms of how his character is explained, what his motives are for trying to destroy Spira and exactly how he plans to do it. All this is illustrated in FFX. Other villains of the series either suffer from incomplete characterisation, such as Sephiroth or Shuyin, or 'Kefka syndrome' where they basically have no motive except for an innate or psychotic desire to see things die. I understand others will disagree with me here, but I do not find this type of villain particularly appealing, and do not consider this preference for a character-driven villain over an incident-driven one anything other than subjective.

Kuja comes a close second for me, as his motives and character are adequately explained, but I just prefer Seymour's complete plan over Kuja's vague plot to defeat Zidane and destroy big chunks of Terra by acquiring progressively more powerful Eidolons and magical weapons. Seymour knows exactly what he is going to do, and how he is going to do it, rather than just why he wants to do it. He is more calculating and thus more appealing to me. Also, Kuja has to share the stage with Garland and Necron, whereas Seymour is what you could really call a stand-alone villain.

whiny

-adjective, whin�i�er, whin�i�est.

complaining; fretful; cranky



Sephiroth was never shown as whiny in FF VII. He's quite cold the whole time, even when he talks about his "mother".

If you want to argue, I would ask that you provide quotes from the game where you think he's being whiny.

suffer from incomplete characterisation, such as Sephiroth

What are you talking about?



Seymour knows exactly what he is going to do, and how he is going to do it, rather than just why he wants to do it. He is more calculating and thus more appealing to me.

I'm pretty sure that even Garland or the Emperor of Palamecia from 1 and 2 new what they were going to do and how they were going to do it. Hell, even Ultimecia knew what she was going to do and how she was going to do it (as most if not all the villains in FF). Just saying.

Regarding Sephiroth:
I recently finished my 2nd playthrough of VII and not once did he ever really strike me as a whiny momma's boy as a lot of people perceive him to be. He came across as pretty cold as was previously mentioned, arrogant and quite cunning. I have little knowledge of the Compilation (besides Advent Children) so I can't comment on his personality in the spin-off games.

Regarding my choice:
Lack of V and Exdeath disappoints me haha. I voted for Kuja as I liked how his plan changed with the events of the story.

What are you talking about?

I lol'd.

Sephy's motives never were fully explained, besides some vague desire to become a God just because he could and some 'mother issues', and his decisions during the game were bizarre. An example of this is the flashback scene in Kalm, where apparently learning that he was artificially created made him go instantly insane and start killing things. Cloud and Zack basically suffered similar fates, being pumped full of Jenova cells, yet neither of them went crazy, and Sephiroth's reasons for snapping like that are never given any explanation. That, to me, is almost as bad as having 'Kefka syndrome' where the villain is just a crazy loon.


I'm pretty sure that even Garland or the Emperor of Palamecia from 1 and 2 new what they were going to do and how they were going to do it. Hell, even Ultimecia knew what she was going to do and how she was going to do it (as most if not all the villains in FF). Just saying.

True, but the explanations of their plans were either vague (as in Ultimecia's case - time compression? How exactly does that work?) or non-existent, as in Garland's case (if we're talking about the Garland from FFIX; I haven't actually played the earlier titles, only VI to XII, and those games are the subject of this thread anyway, as they were the games we had to choose a favourite villain from).

I chose Seymour because his plans are the best explained - they are entirely logical considering the cosmology/spirituality of Spira, which is also fully explained.

I'm late coming in to this so i'm gonna say one of the things about Sephiroth that i find ace which is altogether why i voted for him.

HIS SWORD. it's like 4 foot long it's so amazing.

Sephy's motives never were fully explained, besides some vague desire to become a God just because he could and some 'mother issues', and his decisions during the game were bizarre. An example of this is the flashback scene in Kalm, where apparently learning that he was artificially created made him go instantly insane and start killing things.

A single moment is enough to change someone. Especially if it's something they hear/see/realize and makes them lose the ground under their feet.



Cloud and Zack basically suffered similar fates, being pumped full of Jenova cells, yet neither of them went crazy, and Sephiroth's reasons for snapping like that are never given any explanation. That, to me, is almost as bad as having 'Kefka syndrome' where the villain is just a crazy loon.

I had a really long post in mind stating the obvious but it was too troublesome to write and because I assume that simply saying - different people can have different reactions when facing the same situation - is not enough, I'll say this. Seymour's mother chooses to become a fayth when Seymour is at a "fragile" age. Seymour loses his mother because of that but in her place he acquires immense power via her fayth. And these are the events that ruined his character and made him who he later was. Couldn't he just show great strength of character and not become what he became? Of course he could. But it didn't happen. It's the same with Sephiroth. Could he just accept the truth and continue with his life as the same person he was before? Of course he could. A thousand things could happen after this revelation but the developers chose to make it so that Sephiroth after learning about his past goes berserk. That version is just as valid as any other possibility that could follow the "learning-of-his-origins" events and of course there's nothing more to explain to this.




True, but the explanations of their plans were either vague (as in Ultimecia's case - time compression? How exactly does that work?)

What Ultimecia wants to do and how, is explained. She wants to achieve time compression. A state where past, present and future are mixed together.

(For motivation and reasons (which she lacks) you can only use your imagination. Why does she want to achieve TC? Because she wants to rule everything. Why does she want to rule everything? Because she's evil. Why is she evil? Ahh...bad childhood...maybe?)

Anyway, back on her plan. She can not achieve TC from her time alone. She has to go back in time to do that. In the future, as Odine says, there's a machine which imitates Ellone's power and sends people's consciousness into other people in the past but it's not enough. So basically she uses the machine to possess a sorceress (first Edea and then Rinoa) and seek for Ellone whose power would enable her to go further into time. The main characters of 8 give her a hand with that as soon as they have a plan to defeat her in her own time and they let her possess Rinoa again - Ellone sends them both back into time to Adel's body - Ultimecia then uses her magic powers and she gets her time compression. So I think most of her plan is explained.



or non-existent, as in Garland's case (if we're talking about the Garland from FFIX; I haven't actually played the earlier titles, only VI to XII,

Actually I meant Garland from the first but since you haven't played the first ones and because to tell the truth I don't remember all the spicy details, just forget it.

And it ended up being another troublesome post.=)

Actually I meant Garland from the first but since you haven't played the first ones and because to tell the truth I don't remember all the spicy details, just forget it.

And it ended up being another troublesome post.=)

That Garland is pretty cool but makes no sense when he talks to you at the end of the game. 'Two thousand years from now, you killed me.'
WTF!!!
I mean couldn't he just say 'you killed me but i was brought back to life and sent to this time by the Four Fiends'
Oh yeah how can the four Fiends get there in the first place if Garland has to be in the past to send them forward, it makes no sense and that is another reason why i voted for good old sephy

Sephy's motives never were fully explained, besides some vague desire to become a God just because he could and some 'mother issues', and his decisions during the game were bizarre. An example of this is the flashback scene in Kalm, where apparently learning that he was artificially created made him go instantly insane and start killing things. Cloud and Zack basically suffered similar fates, being pumped full of Jenova cells, yet neither of them went crazy, and Sephiroth's reasons for snapping like that are never given any explanation.

You obviously either a) haven't played the game recently, b) played it too young or c) played it at an acceptable age but just didn't understand the finer details of the plot. Which is understandable, as many are hidden in sidequests etc. I don't know what the point in going into this is, but I might as well. Sephiroth 'goes insane' (if you can call it that) because he researches the history of the planet and discovers three things:

a) Over 2000 years ago there was a race called the Cetra.
b) At some point, there was some damage to the planet (this was Jenova's arrival), which some of the Cetra gave their lives to resolve. The rest of them gave up their powers, didn't help resolve the damage and simply lived off of the Cetra's sacrifice.
c) Sometime before the start of the game, a Cetra called Jenova is found (though she wasn't really a Cetra... he finds that out later). Sephiroth knows that his mother's name was Jenova (though it wasn't really...); he works out from all this (and other reading) that he was the result of an experiment using Jenova's cells, and thus is technically a Cetra.

The reason he kills the inhabitants of Nibelheim and wants to become a god is because he thinks that the current inhabitants of the planet (regular humans as opposed to Cetra) betrayed his people. This is nothing to do with his mother; this is to do with his race.

I know that that was a long post, but I would be grateful if you and all the people who are convinced it's all an Oedipus complex would read this and realise that it's not.



True, but the explanations of their plans were either vague (as in Ultimecia's case - time compression? How exactly does that work?) or non-existent, as in Garland's case (if we're talking about the Garland from FFIX; I haven't actually played the earlier titles, only VI to XII, and those games are the subject of this thread anyway, as they were the games we had to choose a favourite villain from).

I chose Seymour because his plans are the best explained - they are entirely logical considering the cosmology/spirituality of Spira, which is also fully explained.


If Lovecraft taught us anything, it's that things that are not fully explained are often a lot scarier than those that are. Cthulhu's motives are never really explained, as he is so alien to humanity. But they don't really need to be explained. Likewise to Ultimecia's time compression plan. Ultimecia was a crap villain, but the idea of time compression is an interesting one. Who cares how it works? It would never work! Nothing about the concept of time travel works, or makes sense because it involves around a false idea of time. But that doesn't invalidate it as a literary or fictional device.

As for Seymour, he had the biggest Oedipus complex of any FF character I've come across. The fellow above me who I have failed to quote is right, the whole crux of his character is based solely around his mother becoming a fayth when he was too young.


Phew. Apologies for the length; I haven't been able to get into the Shrine for about three days, so it's all been building up!

A single moment is enough to change someone. Especially if it's something they hear/see/realize and makes them lose the ground under their feet.

I understand this. My argument is that Sephiroth has no other reason except the realisation that he was created to go berserk and try and kill everything. There is no further exploration of his character beyond this scene, except for scenes where he spells out his plan to merge with the Lifestream and become a God (the complexities of this aren't really elaborated on) and control his clones from the Northern Cave. The second disc scenes, before you bring them up, don't really explore Sephiroth's character, only expand on the Cloud/Zack/Tifa/Nibelheim events.

Even if you accept the fact that Sephiroth was created artificially as a suitable reason to make a previously sane man go insane and try and destroy the world, Sephiroth still lags some way behind the better villains of the series purely in terms of being fleshed out as a character.


I had a really long post in mind stating the obvious but it was too troublesome to write and because I assume that simply saying - different people can have different reactions when facing the same situation - is not enough, I'll say this. Seymour's mother chooses to become a fayth when Seymour is at a "fragile" age. Seymour loses his mother because of that but in her place he acquires immense power via her fayth. And these are the events that ruined his character and made him who he later was. Couldn't he just show great strength of character and not become what he became? Of course he could. But it didn't happen. It's the same with Sephiroth. Could he just accept the truth and continue with his life as the same person he was before? Of course he could. A thousand things could happen after this revelation but the developers chose to make it so that Sephiroth after learning about his past goes berserk. That version is just as valid as any other possibility that could follow the "learning-of-his-origins" events and of course there's nothing more to explain to this.

I can see you're trying to make a direct comparison between the two to justify your argument, but it isn't really the same kind of situation. The only similarity between Sephiroth and Seymour is the fact that they both have 'mother issues' (better not get into that!).

Seymour does not see his mother give herself up to become a fayth and suddenly think 'I want to kill things now because I am angry that my mother died'. Yes, that forms the base for his lingering bitterness and resentment, but there is a much clearer rationale to his actions than that. Having been brought up as a maester, he was aware of the 'awful truths' of Spira long before your party actually finds out about them. This gives a rational basis to his actions as well as an emotional one. He didn't want to kill people and destroy Spira just because he was angry that his mother died, he wanted to kill people and destroy Spira because he truly believed it was for the best - people would not have to live in fear of death or Sin anymore, and the pointlessness of existence and the 'spiral of death' would be gone because there would be no existence as such. Although this is obviously warped reasoning and has a touch of the 'Kefka syndrome' about it, the fact that the game put more effort into creating character with a solid plan and motivation rather than just a killing machine enabled me to empathise a lot more with Seymour than I ever could with Sephiroth.


What Ultimecia wants to do and how, is explained. She wants to achieve time compression. A state where past, present and future are mixed together.

(For motivation and reasons (which she lacks) you can only use your imagination. Why does she want to achieve TC? Because she wants to rule everything. Why does she want to rule everything? Because she's evil. Why is she evil? Ahh...bad childhood...maybe?)

Anyway, back on her plan. She can not achieve TC from her time alone. She has to go back in time to do that. In the future, as Odine says, there's a machine which imitates Ellone's power and sends people's consciousness into other people in the past but it's not enough. So basically she uses the machine to possess a sorceress (first Edea and then Rinoa) and seek for Ellone whose power would enable her to go further into time. The main characters of 8 give her a hand with that as soon as they have a plan to defeat her in her own time and they let her possess Rinoa again - Ellone sends them both back into time to Adel's body - Ultimecia then uses her magic powers and she gets her time compression. So I think most of her plan is explained.

OK, I concede I was wrong on Ultimecia's plan, or at least will take your word for it. I'm not that familiar with FFVIII's final disc.

But still, I think Ultimecia is a weaker villain than Seymour. Not just because she lacks plausible motivation and is damn near impossible to empathise with, but because the 'time compression' plan is so last-minute and irrelevant to the rest of the story. You don't even hear anything about Ultimecia until Disc 3, and her plan isn't actually detailed until Disc 4/end of Disc 3, by which time you've played a story which is about a struggle for power in a completely different time, let alone a different place. I think Square could have brought Ultimecia into the game much earlier.

The reason he kills the inhabitants of Nibelheim and wants to become a god is because he thinks that the current inhabitants of the planet (regular humans as opposed to Cetra) betrayed his people. This is nothing to do with his mother; this is to do with his race.

And to achieve his goal, he kills off the last actual Cetra. Nice reasoning, Sephiroth. :(

And to achieve his goal, he kills off the last actual Cetra. Nice reasoning, Sephiroth. :(

By that point he had been mucking around in the lifestream and had absorbed a whole lot more knowledge. This is when, if indeed he did, he went insane, and his ambitions became more important than his motives.

Besides, in Sephiroth's mind, Aerith trying to stop him was her betraying her race too (or rather failing to avenge them) which made her just as bad as the normal humans.

Besides, his plan was never to restore the Cetra to their former position but to avenge them (which then became to become a god.

By saying �different people can have different reactions when facing the same situation� I didn�t want to imply that for Sephiroth and Seymour the situation was the same. It was just an argument for what you said �Cloud and Zack basically suffered similar fates, being pumped full of Jenova cells, yet neither of them went crazy, and Sephiroth's reasons for snapping like that are never given any explanation�



I can see you're trying to make a direct comparison between the two to justify your argument

Basically I wanted you to see the similarities. Leaving all the details out and try to touch whatever core there is to it� no wait, I got a question for you.

Something happens to the character�s past that changes him. In time he conceives a plan to destroy everything.

Who am I reffering to, Sephiroth or Seymour? If you�re still not convinced about the similarities I don�t know what else to say. Whatever differences they have is on the details which I left out but it�s really obvious that the basic concept is the same for both villains.



OK, I concede I was wrong on Ultimecia's plan, or at least will take your word for it. I'm not that familiar with FFVIII's final disc.

But still, I think Ultimecia is a weaker villain than Seymour. Not just because she lacks plausible motivation and is damn near impossible to empathise with, but because the 'time compression' plan is so last-minute and irrelevant to the rest of the story. You don't even hear anything about Ultimecia until Disc 3, and her plan isn't actually detailed until Disc 4/end of Disc 3, by which time you've played a story which is about a struggle for power in a completely different time, let alone a different place. I think Square could have brought Ultimecia into the game much earlier.

Of course she is weaker than Seymour (and not only). I just wanted to show you that it's not only Seymour that had a plan and knew how to execute it. I could have mentioned more (and Sephiroth too of course) but there's really no point. If you remember the games you can see that yourself. Also for Ultimecia I don't think the little time she got on the game would matter if she had better reasons for what she did or an explanation on why she was who she was. It's not that much of how much exposure the villains get but how much of it is of quality. Unfortunately, Ultimecia had neither.

I'm late coming in to this so i'm gonna say one of the things about Sephiroth that i find ace which is altogether why i voted for him.

HIS SWORD. it's like 4 foot long it's so amazing.

It's actually about 6 feet long.

And it's not that amazing.

Golbez from FF4 xD!!!

That's not a choice, fuckwit.


xD!!!

The 'of all time' part really does beg the inclusion of all the games, in which case, my choice is Golbez.

Of these options:

For me, it was a tough pick between Sephiroth and Kuja. Ultimately, I chose Sephiroth. I'd be happy to elaborate on my reasoning, but just about everything that can be said both for and against him has already been pointed out somewhere in this thread. That being said, I think Kuja has a lot going for him, too.

I ultimately chose Sephiroth because, in my opinion (this part is vital), he is the most visually memorable and imposing Final Fantasy villain. This is a video game, not a novel, and the appearance of a villain can make or break his/her character. Kuja was just a bit too androgynous for me; while it made him a sufficiently creepy villain (I don't mean this sarcastically - Kuja's femininity was one of the things that made his madness all the more disturbing), I felt Sephiroth's overall visage drove home his portrayal as a fanatic with too much personal power and a fantastically broken view of reality. Don't read into this too much or make comparisons that don't exist, but in the same light as Darth Vader, Sephiroth's visual presentation was a crucial part of his villainy. (Feel free to call it generic; the fact that he's easily the most recognizable Final Fantasy villain resolves this argument on its own.)

Most of these guys qualify as badasses, though I can't speak for Shuyin from FFX-2, as I haven't played that.

As a side note, I saw someone describe Sephiroth's sword as impractical.

Impractical.

Are you serious?

Sorry, that must've been my flawed perception. In the storm of practicality that is flying air boats, summoning mythological creatures to your aid, and having your weaponry teach you to blast fireballs, I must've let an oversized sword slip through the cracks.

I am not convinced that Seymour is the main villian of X. That title I would rather give to Yunalesca. I see Seymour as someone like Dalton from Chrono Trigger. A bad guy that bothers you a lot but who at bottom is not a necessary obstacle that must be overcome for you to accomplish your goal (defeat sin and stop the cycle of death).

Yunalesca was responsible for perpetuating the lies that kept everyone tied to the endless cycle of death. She was the embodiment of the problems. Without Yunalesca, the religion of Yevon would have had no power and Sin would never be reborn. Sin coming back over and over was the product of Yunalesca's belief that Sin could never be defeated. Defeating Yunalesca allowed things to be solved.

Yuna’s entire journey culminates in her encounter with Yunalesca, note the speech both she and Auron give and how all determine to fight her and put an end to the tradition of the final summoning. It is the climax of the game, the moment where the most important decision is made. The game up until this point is strictly linear but once Yunalesca is defeated, you suddenly can go off and do whatever you want. The root of the problem was taken care of now. This tells that Sin wasn't important to go after right away, who is Jecht and is more of a victim than anything else and instead of an enemy of Spira itself is Tidus's own personal trial.

Too bad that she is not in the poll, I would have voted for her if she were an option but decided to vote for Sephiroth instead. I very much agree with the reasons LordNecro outlined in his several posts and don’t think they need to be repeated.

im kuja in real life

Too bad that she is not in the poll, I would have voted for her if she were an option but decided to vote for Sephiroth instead. I very much agree with the reasons LordNecro outlined in his several posts and don�t think they need to be repeated.

Nice one. Also, your points about Yunalesca are true, I'd never looked at it that way!

Nice one. Also, your points about Yunalesca are true, I'd never looked at it that way!

you never looked at it that way? what are you, a moron?

you never looked at it that way? what are you, a moron?

Yep sums me up pretty well! I don't play FFX much, so I've not put so much thought into the plot and so forth.

Nice one. Also, your points about Yunalesca are true, I'd never looked at it that way!

Yah, I think that Seymour is seen as the main villain more due to how much screen time he gets and how many times you have to fight him. But Seymour, like the hierarchy of Yevon is just obsessed with and corrupted by the tradition started by Yunalesca. His plan to become Sin is possible only thanks to the way the final summoning works. But once Yunalesca is defeated, Seymour’s plan to become Sin is frustrated. Yunalesca is practially the root of all the problems.

Sephiroth best Final Fantasy Villain EVER! No competition.

I'd choose Kefka since he was plain psycho. I think it was due to the magic fusion that made him go crazy though.

Seymour. His lust for power couldn't let him rest even in death.

vote for my preference ,- - !!

Okay, Kuja is too metrosexual for me, Seymoure might of well just been Kuja's taller cousin. Sephiroth is the only true bad ass out of the list - although I did find Ultemician painful to look at haha

I voted for Seymour. Seymour terrified me, and I think he was a creepier character than the other villains

Villains are the one thing I think is a little weaker in FF games than in some other RPG's... They are okay, but I don't think they're what they're cracked up to be. I voted for Kefka just because the things he did were just memorable for me. Although personality-wise he wasn't too interesting, his actions were what stood out to me.

I don't really understand what is so cool about Sephiroth, to be honest... Ultimecia wasn't even seen until the very end of VIII... I did really like Edea as the villain early in the game, though. Kuja just wasn't that memorable for me... Seymour was one of my least favorite villains ever, he just annoyed me... And I haven't gotten far enough in XII to know what to think about Vayne.

I guess when it comes to FF I just prefer the good guys. :)

Villains are the one thing I think is a little weaker in FF games than in some other RPG's... They are okay, but I don't think they're what they're cracked up to be. I voted for Kefka just because the things he did were just memorable for me. Although personality-wise he wasn't too interesting, his actions were what stood out to me.

I don't really understand what is so cool about Sephiroth, to be honest... Ultimecia wasn't even seen until the very end of VIII... I did really like Edea as the villain early in the game, though. Kuja just wasn't that memorable for me... Seymour was one of my least favorite villains ever, he just annoyed me... And I haven't gotten far enough in XII to know what to think about Vayne.

I guess when it comes to FF I just prefer the good guys. :)

I'm with you here. Most of the FF villains are pretty bad, truth be told. Sephiroth was far too cliche (though FF7 overall always has me wondering what I missed about it that makes it so popular), Kuja was too effeminate, Ultimicia wasn't much of a character, and I never made it to the end of XII so I can't comment there.

That leaves Kefka. Kefka was generic in the sense of "woohoo I'm a crazy motherfucker!", but he was a villain you could really hate. The poisoning of Doma castle set a good stage for the rest of the game, and his cowardly nature portrayed him as slimy. This also stands more against the trend of tragically emo characters that have been featured more and more as the series has progressed, and that deserves a bit of applause.

Don. Corneo.