Is it me, or is Amarant the most pointless character of all time?
He serves no point to the storyline and i always find him to be of no help to my team by the time i get him. And whats up with his little scene at the end?

Can someone please prove me wrong and show me some purpose that this character serves.

He fills the game's brooding quota to make the FFVII-FFVIII fanboys happy.

Is it me, or is Amarant the most pointless character of all time?
He serves no point to the storyline and i always find him to be of no help to my team by the time i get him. And whats up with his little scene at the end?

Can someone please prove me wrong and show me some purpose that this character serves.

As a character, he is more or less pointless, you're right. Much like Quina. However, he is useful in battle, since many of his healing abilities offer things that Garnet and Eiko do not.

My theory is that he was put into the story merely to add the illusion of more depth to Zidane's character. And given that Amarant doesn't really have a plot of his own, that theory is difficult to discount.

Thanks for proving me right :)
I never usually bother with Amarant as a character because i think you get him too late in the game and you have to equip some crap equipment to get him to learn some abilities. I also usally have my good team well established before i get to madain sari so he doesnt really fit in.

Next time though i think i'll try him. Some of the youtube video's i've seen make him look awsome.

He is; Aura and No Mercy especially. When you first get him I always replace Dagger for him - I hate having two white mages/summoners.

Storylinewise, I sort of agree Ceidwad. He's pretty much the 'anti-Zidane', his way of thinking is pretty much opposite to Zidane's. It makes for some good dialogue.

He also seemed like a sort of reference to Shadow from VI (or Cloud/Sqaull whoever makes you happy - of course neither of them were assasins but their personalities were sort of similar I guess). Both Shadow/Amarant were hired assasins who fill the 'mysterious/brooding/slightly darker' heroes role. They also both seem to open up a bit by the end of the game.

He also filled the EMO-fanboy quota

Thanks everyone for your input.
Seeing as we're discussing pointless characters i would also like to pose this question.
Why are the summons or eidolons or whatever the hell they're called so weak?
The only summon strong enough to do any decent damage at the end of the game was Odin when i got odin's sword. The first time i got Ark i was really excited until i found he/she/it's weak as hell.
The main thing that puzzles me about them is that they are important to the story and are depicted as being powerful but are really nothing but.
I wonder if this was squares way of making up for the fact that everything was based on the summons in ff8.

You can increase the power of your summons using Gemstones. To power up a particular summon, you usually need a lot of the Gemstone that you used to learn the summon. I realise I'm not explaining this very well so I'll use an example. The more rubies you have in your inventory the stronger your Ifrit summon gets. Likewise Ramuh's strength is increased from Peridots, Atomos by Amethysts, Shiva's from Opals, Bahamut's from Garnets and Leviathan's power is increased by Aquamarines.

ohhhhh, well i didnt know that.
I usually just sold those things thinking they were completely pointless.
Thanks :)

What about Ark though? he was sooooo dissapointing, especially for something with such a long animation.

I don't think Ark can be powered up with him being taught by Pumice. I could be wrong though.

Also, yeah I thought Ark was sort of disappointing. He is easily overshadowed by moves such as Steiner's Shock, Freya's Dragon Crest, Thievery and Eiko's Madeen summon - and yeah, his summon animation is a pain in the ass. Although, if you cast Regen/equip the Auto-Regen ability then it can have its uses.

I think he was very useful at times, because of his class being a monk. He really helped me out with his Throw when I was in a pickle.

If you took all of a whole hour to teach Amarant some skills, he has probably the most utility of any character, as he can do a little bit of everything at least reasonably well. He may not have the sheer power of a Shocking Steiner, but he has more ability stones, so he's far more adaptable. Consequently, if you have any idea whatsoever what's coming, you can (usually) set up Amarant to foil whatever it is that is coming. He also plays hell on Ozma, as he's one of the few characters (two or three--can't remember) who can actually equip the "Return Magic" ability.

As far as his story and development, Amarant is a foil of sorts to both Zidane and Dagger. The "anti-Zidane" bit he plays earlier on is quite obvious, but as the story progresses, he's a nice foil to Dagger. While she's becoming more self-reliant, Amarant's learning to trust people, namely, his 'friends' in the party. As a supporting character, Amarant doesn't get those "spotlight" moments, as it would likely take away from the game. However, his moments are far more subtile, as they are usually smaller things that naturally happen as the party travels.

As far as Quina is concerned, I have a hard time finding comic relief to be "pointless." Evidently, enjoying a good laugh every now and again while I'm playing is a sure sign of my obvious lack of maturity. That being said, I type this as my six-month old son sleeps on my chest.

I loved Amarant, not so much as a character in the game, but in playability. I always had him in my party when I could, he was very diversified (is that the right word?) in his abilities.

He is so annoying. I wish they'd just added Beatrix as the last character to join the party. She was much more developed and tied into the plot than Amarant was.

He was just plain boring. I never even used him once I could switch him out of my party.

As far as Quina is concerned, I have a hard time finding comic relief to be "pointless." Evidently, enjoying a good laugh every now and again while I'm playing is a sure sign of my obvious lack of maturity. That being said, I type this as my six-month old son sleeps on my chest.

Well, let's be honest. FFIX is hardly a game short on comic relief. Come on, nearly every main character brings some comic relief to the plot, and I could name several instances of this of you really wanted to go into detail.

Quina just exists almost purely for that reason, and he/she/it has a one track mind. Its entire plot is focussed around the desire to fill its belly with every kind of delicacy known to man. Don't you find that a bit of a waste of a main character? I mean come on, Marcus was at least as entertaining, and had far more relevance to what was actually going on.

Well, let's be honest. FFIX is hardly a game short on comic relief. Come on, nearly every main character brings some comic relief to the plot, and I could name several instances of this of you really wanted to go into detail.

And your point is...?


Quina just exists almost purely for that reason

Yeah, I kind of implied that there. Way to agree with me.


Don't you find that a bit of a waste of a main character?

Seeing as Quina isn't a main character, no. I don't.


and had far more relevance to what was actually going on.

Except that for incredibly long stretches of the game, Marcus is with Tantalus while Zidane and company are most decidedly not. Kind of hard to be relevant when you're not even on the same planet.

And your point is...?

That more comic relief, in the form of Quina, was not necessary. The game's eighth character would have been better filled by someone who played a role in the more political aspect of the game. The game's laugh-a-minute quota was more than adequately fulfilled with just Zidane, Steiner, Vivi, Garnet and Eiko, not to mention Baku, Cinna, Marcus, Blank, Beatrix, Cid etc. The game itself was humourous, so there was no need for a character to serve just that purpose.


Yeah, I kind of implied that there. Way to agree with me.

No probs :smrt:


Seeing as Quina isn't a main character, no. I don't.

A playable character, then, if you want to be pedantic about it.


Except that for incredibly long stretches of the game, Marcus is with Tantalus while Zidane and company are most decidedly not. Kind of hard to be relevant when you're not even on the same planet.

So? Marcus helps you kidnap Garnet, save Blank (who subsequently helps the rest of your party escape from Alexandria Castle with Garnet on the second disc) and joins your party for the 5-10 hours immediately prior to that, actively taking part in the plot all the while. Quina, aside from maybe one scene where it helps you discover Fossil Roo by sheer fluke, largely does nothing except eat frogs and act as comic relief.

Though really, the eighth character needn't have been Marcus. It could have been another of the part-time characters, such as Beatrix, or even an original character. Anybody that actually feels as though they should belong to the world that the rest of your characters do.

The game's eighth character would have been better filled by someone who played a role in the more political aspect of the game.

And the game's serious, political aspect was more than adequately filled by just Zidane, Steiner, Vivi, Garnet and Eiko, not to mention Doctor Tot, Beatrix, Marcus, Cid, Queen Brahne, and others. Your serious-ness quota is filled quite nicely as is, especially toward the end of the game, so how would another "serious" character be so much better?


A playable character, then, if you want to be pedantic about it.

I'll stop being pedantic when you stop building strawmen. Kay?


So?

WTF? Did you even read my post? Marcus was on a different planet for several hours of the game. Quina's more relevant by default. Unless, of course, FFIX suddenly turned into Stargate IX.


Quina, aside from maybe one scene where it helps you discover Fossil Roo by sheer fluke, largely does nothing except eat frogs and act as comic relief.

So the importance of the event is somehow diminished because it's a "sheer fluke?" Seeing as the entrance of Fossil Roo is right next to Quina's home, I suppose finding my car so I can go to work every day is a sheer fluke, too? At any rate, Quina also helps you through Conde Petie, in a scene that would have been decidedly un-funny if it were Marcus marrying Vivi.


Though really, the eighth character needn't have been Marcus. It could have been another of the part-time characters, such as Beatrix, or even an original character.

Neither Marcus nor Beatrix would have worked at all, story-wise or mechanically. Beatrix was with Brahne for the first third of the game, and taking care of Alexandria while Garnet was off saving the world for pretty much the rest. She would have also made most of the other characters rather pointless from a gameplay perspective. Her White Magic is comparable to Garnet and Eiko's, while her Sword Arts are better than Steiner's, especially seeing as you get Shock (quad-9's, anyone?) way the heck early. Ironically, Quina would have been one of the few that wouldn't have been made obsolete by Beatrix's presence. As far as Marcus is concerned, it would have been awkward at best to justify him leaving Tantalus to follow Zidane, especially since Marcus was looking for the Supersoft to save Blank from the Evil Forest. Marcus also would have been completely pointless gameplay-wise, as he's basically a gimped version of Steiner and Zidane rammed together.


Anybody that actually feels as though they should belong to the world that the rest of your characters do

In a world with walking, jump-roping, talking hippos, Queen Brahne, Moogles, walking, talking, spear-fighting rats, and a Regent who gets turned into an oglop, I have a hard time seeing how Quina doesn't fit. Then again, perhaps I'm just being pedantic again.

And the game's serious, political aspect was more than adequately filled by just Zidane, Steiner, Vivi, Garnet and Eiko, not to mention Doctor Tot, Beatrix, Marcus, Cid, Queen Brahne, and others. Your serious-ness quota is filled quite nicely as is, especially toward the end of the game, so how would another "serious" character be so much better?

See my reply to your final point.


I'll stop being pedantic when you stop building strawmen. Kay?

Nay.


WTF? Did you even read my post? Marcus was on a different planet for several hours of the game. Quina's more relevant by default. Unless, of course, FFIX suddenly turned into Stargate IX.

Being more relevant 'by default' is not a counter argument, since this argument is dealing with hypotheticals, rather than facts. Of course Quina 'by default' has more relevance-but assuming Marcus were the playable character, he would have more relevance 'by default'.


So the importance of the event is somehow diminished because it's a "sheer fluke?" Seeing as the entrance of Fossil Roo is right next to Quina's home, At any rate, Quina also helps you through Conde Petie, in a scene that would have been decidedly un-funny if it were Marcus marrying Vivi.

OK. So suppose you put Beatrix in that scene marrying Vivi. I'm sure you can use your imagination to make that seem at least somewhat funny. I mean, we are talking about a top general marrying a street boy/black mage.

Also,


I suppose finding my car so I can go to work every day is a sheer fluke, too?

What? Stop applying needless hyperbole to what I've said. I don't see how finding your car so you can go to work is at all similar to the Fossil Roo scene. I mean, you're presumably looking for your car. Quina just stumbles on FR looking for frogs. Clear difference.


Neither Marcus nor Beatrix would have worked at all, story-wise or mechanically. Beatrix was with Brahne for the first third of the game, and taking care of Alexandria while Garnet was off saving the world for pretty much the rest. She would have also made most of the other characters rather pointless from a gameplay perspective. Her White Magic is comparable to Garnet and Eiko's, while her Sword Arts are better than Steiner's, especially seeing as you get Shock (quad-9's, anyone?) way the heck early. Ironically, Quina would have been one of the few that wouldn't have been made obsolete by Beatrix's presence. As far as Marcus is concerned, it would have been awkward at best to justify him leaving Tantalus to follow Zidane, especially since Marcus was looking for the Supersoft to save Blank from the Evil Forest. Marcus also would have been completely pointless gameplay-wise, as he's basically a gimped version of Steiner and Zidane rammed together.

Again, we're talking about hypotheticals. Marcus could have been given his own set of abilities, while Beatrix could simply have been powered down.

As for the storyline problems, since you don't even have to get Quina per se until the second disc, I see no problem with delaying the arrival of either Beatrix or Marcus. I suppose Marcus joining your party would have been somewhat difficult storyline wise, but Beatrix has every reason to join you full time, especially after the events of Disc 3. I was surprised that she didn't, actually.


In a world with walking, jump-roping, talking hippos, Queen Brahne, Moogles, walking, talking, spear-fighting rats, and a Regent who gets turned into an oglop, I have a hard time seeing how Quina doesn't fit. Then again, perhaps I'm just being pedantic again.

OK, maybe I chose my words wrong there. What I mean is that Quina doesn't have any characters than he/she/it really communicates with in the game, thus doesn't feel like a proper member of your party. Hey even Amarant forges some relationships with your party members, like Freya, for instance. Quina just stays the same throughout, never develops and rarely interacts (at least not on any emotional level) with others.

but assuming Marcus were the playable character, he would have more relevance 'by default'.

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.


I don't see how finding your car so you can go to work is at all similar to the Fossil Roo scene.

Then you've totally missed my point. Fossil Roo's entrance, as I've already posted, is right next to Quina's home. The fluke would have been if s/he hadn't found it.


Again, we're talking about hypotheticals. Marcus could have been given his own set of abilities, while Beatrix could simply have been powered down.

Which is a totally different conversation for a totally different thread. Our point of contention was whether or not Quina's "pointless" in FFIX as it is, not some "if my aunt had balls" version where just about anything from Beatrix being playable to Sephiroth showing up could hypothetically happen. For the record, we've both agreed that s/he's there for comic relief.


but Beatrix has every reason to join you full time, especially after the events of Disc 3.

No. Somebody had to run Alexandria while Garnet's off saving the planet. Being the good, duty-bound General she is, Beatrix recognized that and took care of running Alexandria.


Quina just stays the same throughout, never develops and rarely interacts (at least not on any emotional level) with others.

Wrong. There's an optional scene at Quan's house involving Vivi, Quina, and Quale. Don't misunderstand me; it's not as if Quina gets this huge exposition, but for a supporting character whom we've already agreed is there pretty much for comic relief, what do you honestly expect?

I suppose we've reached something of an impasse here, particularly in regards to the 'if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle' debate about the hypothetical situation. My aim was never to show that Marcus had more relevance by default, or Beatrix for that matter. My argument is merely about the greater role that they play in interacting with other characters and on that I still stand by my argument. That is where we appear to misunderstand each other.

I suppose I accept your other points. That, and I don't really feel like drawing this particular argument out any longer. One question though in regards to your reply: what goes on in that optional scene at Quan's place? And also, if that's the main piece of development Quina gets, you have to question why it was even made optional in the first place. It's a bit like in FFVII where it's possible to miss a massively important piece of Cloud's plot if you ignore the Nibelheim Mansion on Disc 3, except less crucial to the overall plot of the game, obviously.

My argument is merely about the greater role that they play in interacting with other characters and on that I still stand by my argument.

Okay, I can totally give you that; my original contention is merely that Quina isn't "pointless" as many folks make him/her out to be. My point about Marcus and/or Beatrix being playable is that making it happen would require serious changes to the script and/or power level of several characters. Honestly, I can envision Marcus being playable; I was always bummed about not being able to save Blank yourself.


what goes on in that optional scene at Quan's place? And also, if that's the main piece of development Quina gets, you have to question why it was even made optional in the first place.

It's been several years since I've seen it, so I honestly don't remember much. Que the wikipedia copy/paste copout!


Later in the game, Zidane, Vivi and Quina can visit Quan's dwelling (near Treno, where Vivi grew up), and Quina will see a whole room of nonexistent food. Moving outside, the three of them (and the newly-arrived Quale) meet with Quan's ghost. Quan commends both Vivi and Quina for their vivid, valuable imaginations and reprimands Quale for seeing the world too literally. It is at this point that Quina fully understands what it's gotten out of traveling with Zidane and decides that s/he wants to travel the world in search of even more "yummy-yummies." Quina's role in the rest of the game is limited to a secondary role and comic relief, except in the closing where Quina is seen in the kitchen of Alexandria Castle.

I try not to guess the intentions of game creators whenever possible, but perhaps they foresaw Quina's lack of popularity and decided to make his/her "scene" optional for the folks who did want to see. I doubt it would take a political science major to figure out that a character like Quina, being rather "outside the box," would be at least somewhat polarizing. Kind of like Cait Sith, since we're drawing FFVII parallels. While we're at it, optional story sequences aren't exactly unprecedented in the FF series. As early as FFIV, optional sequences like the one with Yang's wife appear. Once you get the Falcon in FFVI, the World of Ruin is pretty much a bunch of optional story sequences.

Amarant was never one of my favorite FFIX characters. In my opinion I thought both Garnet and Eiko were better than Amarant put together XD. But that's just me.

He fills the game's brooding quota to make the FFVII-FFVIII fanboys happy.

I actually agree with you 100%. It keeps the kids hard in their pants with super creepy emo powers.

Amarant was never one of my favorite FFIX characters. In my opinion I thought both Garnet and Eiko were better than Amarant put together XD. But that's just me.

Amarant's not my fave either, but he's developed quite well. I'd go out on a limb and say he may have more development than Eiko. Like I've said before, he rarely got any scenes of his "own" the way Garnet and Eiko did. Pretty much all of his development was done in a subtle fashion, mostly in scenes starring Zidane.


I actually agree with you 100%. It keeps the kids hard in their pants with super creepy emo powers.

Or you could maybe add something to this thread?

I like Amarant. I usually find his dialogue or scenes involving him either amusing or interesting. And he had one of the game's more useful Trances.

Elan ---> Revive = win

Or you could maybe add something to this thread?


Maybe I will. But the fact that most threads on this forum are spammed I would think my post contained a lot more words than most.

I'm not a fan of The Flaming (Whopper) Amarant. I prefer Vivi coz of cute mage jawa presence.

I like Amarant. I usually find his dialogue or scenes involving him either amusing or interesting. And he had one of the game's more useful Trances.

Elan ---> Revive = win

What Agent said plus the fact that Amarant's Theme is one of my favorite themes in the Final Fantasy series.

Yeah, I'll second that too. Well, I'm not sure if it's one my absolute favorites, but I like it.

Amarant's Theme is full of win. BTW, I should probably clarify. When I said Amarant's not my fave, I meant that literally. I do like Amarant--why else would I have a pic of him for my avatar? Like Ngrplz, Vivi's my fave. ;)

Hey, i havn't posted on this thread for a while but, as i said before, i've never used Amarant, so i was wondering if someone could fill me in on what his trance does, does he get special abilities like Zidane or get buffed like Steiner?

Oh, and my compliments to Cyancyde for having an awsome taste in games :D

Elan takes any Amarant special move --- Chakra, Revive, Spare Change, etc. and applies it to all targets or allies, instead of just one.

I never had any issues with Amarant. Like everyone else I leveled him up, and taught him support and new abilities with every new set of equipment I purchased. I personally liked the combination of Vivi & Steiner myself, Freya ftw though.

I rarely ever used Amarant. I guess I would try using him if I ever pick the game up. But from the few times I used him, he was alright. I didn't care much for him really... if he wasn't in the game I don't think it would have made much of a difference.

i thought he was main character hero i may have been wrong (haven't played ffix since tuesday)

Amarant is a great character. Sure he may not be of much use in story line but there are others such as Yuffie and Vincent in VII and Penelo/ may I dare say Vaan in FFXII ;).

As Agent's posts stated, Amarants trance 'Elan' is more of the better trances, hell even I think that Zidane's Grand Lethal was mediocre. Who wouldn't love 9999 no mercy hits on all 3/4 Yans =D. Who wouldn't love a party regen and auto life after Necron wasted your party's auto life by an unlucky event =p. His trance is I believe, one of three best trances being Amarant, Eiko and Vivi. The rest are mediocre to useless.

Chakra heals both hp and mp by 19%. May I say that is very useful especially with his trance activated. This usefulness also applies to revive =D.

Although lack of skills does short circuit the potential fun you could have, but his abilities is abundant and very similar to Zidane's. He is the better Melee character but not as well rounded as Freya, but certainly more useful than Steiner. His throw command does suck I give you that =).

also, just pointing out, Ark's damage increases by the amount of Lapiz Lazuli obtained in your inventory and Ifrit's damage increases by the amount of Topaz in your inventory.

youre right!!!!!!! he is pointless!!!!!!!!! very pointless!!!!!!!!! he is only important in the battle with tantarian!!!!!!!! He could only be important if he was there in the beggining

Erm, yeah. Not the most coherent, interesting, or well-justified post I've ever seen. Certainly not enough to merit reviving a thread over half a year old...