Id like to point something out to you guys about leechers just taking things without saying thanks or something of good compliment. For example in my gamerip thread i feel as there are many leechers because of the many views i get and barely any replies, now don't get me wrong i got alot of good praise for my work but i feel i should get more thanks from my hardwork of rips that i do especially most wanted scores. So i think that i should enforce a rule or something in my next upcoming update.

Whats your opinion on leechers and how to deal with them?

leave leechers alone

The issues regarding leechers has been discussed endlessly, but I know how you feel. I should know, considering how many views there are in the DBZ BT3 rip thread of mine. At most times though, I don't let it bother me too much.

My true opinion on the matter varies though, to the extent that I can see both sides of the story.

Let me say something interesting, at least 3 user accounts were made more than likely to dowload the BT3 rip, but they made comments. But many more may have been made for the same reason, but with NO comment. Unfortunately, all of my opinions of this aren't completely organized on this. I may have to post later to further talk about how I feel.

The point is not being thanked, but to give . Some leechers are kinda funny though, like
"I want this OST now" after 2 hours "WTF"

The point is not being thanked, but to give . Some leechers are kinda funny though, like
"I want this OST now" after 2 hours "WTF"

Indeed, I have likely encoutered a situation like this at least once. (Even if not recent)

Im thankful though that nobody is begging me or rushing me to update a new batch, but its when someone wants a new batch, and i finally post it, the views in my thread go up drastically while the thing is sinking to the bottom and that person who begged for the update is never heard from again, not a thx nothing. but i appreciate people like russ and dmx for showing there support.

One thing I thought was a fantastic idea in another forum I'm on (though they had to disable some features recently just to keep the server up) was the option to put a "hide thanks" tag around the links. So even if someone didn't post to say thanks, they at least had to hit a button to do so. And you could see in each person's user info how many times they had been thanked (for that particular post and overall). I don't know if that's something we'd want to implement here.

Or we can put hide tags around links so that way only a certain amount of people can access it with a certain amount of post limit say like they had to have at least 30 posts, to view the links. really works with zero posters.

I can't agree more with you, but those days, recognition is totally forgotten..

Even great community like Gamemp3s gets very very few feedbacks and thanks.. but they rip and share maybe 50% of all releases (especially this year).

So you are asking more feedback on a board like FF Shrine ?
Have you seen the stats ? Members: 144,038, Active Members: 23,076

That's a fucking lot of leechers that's true. But there is no moderation here, no quality control..
I think you'll have to live with it.. or just stop to waste your time ripping for nothing.


Oh.. i'd really LOVE a system with protected links (for example, you must reply to the post, or have a certain number of posts)..

But i guess Sarah will never do it. GFF is a business before everything, never forget that.

One thing I thought was a fantastic idea in another forum I'm on (though they had to disable some features recently just to keep the server up) was the option to put a "hide thanks" tag around the links. So even if someone didn't post to say thanks, they at least had to hit a button to do so. And you could see in each person's user info how many times they had been thanked (for that particular post and overall). I don't know if that's something we'd want to implement here.

I concur with this too. It helps to keep track of who's downloading what.
Plus there's a lot of unappreciative fucktards who request for stuff, then disappear into the interwebz without a single thanks.

At another forum I frequent, they do this there. You can also reply with "thanks" too, though i think this is a loophole around the tracking because they can delete their post with the thanks.

^_^ I love leechers. They keep my links alive for those who will comment.

I load my stuff up in an FileFactory Account, where the "my files"-thing let me look at certain numbers, including the number of downloads.

Example: My recently uploaded complete Gamerip of Ragnarok. I uploaded it a couple days ago. It was downloaded 15 times, but I only got 1 thanks.

Even worse the Perfect Cherry Blossom-rip. 14 downloads, no thanks at all.

I'm new to this board, and I try to put up stuff which wasn't upped already, especially older things, so people can have access to that as well - I tho feel a bit like doing that for nothing.
Aisha's point of view is great, tho, that's for sure.

Edit: I sometimes happen to download something and forget to say thanks in that moment, but normally I'll thank when I see the thread again. =)

I think insisting on some kind of control is completely understandable and long overdue. If you all take the time to upload all of this stuff, you SHOULD get some recognition and thanks for the work you've done. That level of generosity is what keeps this community going.

I agree with most of you, I strongly suggest that there should be hide tags or a similiar system.

How many mods does this forum have anyway?

I mean im not complaining but the general discussion section is an absolute shithole.

This thread kind of made me remember a topic that I've always put off posting, just because I thought maybe I'd be out of line for saying so.

But first, I do agree that it'd be nice to be thanked, especially since gamerips are sometimes a lot more work than just a simple soundtrack. I do recordings, which can take hours to get just right. But since I will only do it for my own library (since I don't fill requests beyond my availability), I won't post until it meets my needs. For rips, I like feedback. OSTs I really couldn't care less.

But another forum I belng to actually has a policy that forbids gratitude. I've posted a simple 'thank you' only to see the post deleted. I guess they consider it a form of bump.

But back to my original purpose. What gets to me in regadrs to the leeching are those who register, make only one request, and are never heard from again ... or only request without ever contributing to topics or even uploads. I've always wondered if those leechers shouldn't be warned or something. Maybe something like before making a request, they need to upload one soundtrack, but sometimes that's not possible. As a Capcom lover, what other albums could I add that aren't already here, right? Still, i just seems like a waste of time uploading for someone who will just disappear without any appreciation, right?

"Everyone has at one point been a leecher. Some are for short time and some longer. But both are one in the same".

Or we can put hide tags around links so that way only a certain amount of people can access it with a certain amount of post limit say like they had to have at least 30 posts, to view the links. really works with zero posters.

it sort of encourages pointless additions to the forums though. people posting just to get their count up.

I have thought about trying some things to encourage participation though. possible something rep based... not EVERYTHING would require x rep to view, but there could be a special forum only for non leechers with bonus stuff [ftps, etc]

"Everyone has at one point been a leecher. Some are for short time and some longer. But both are one in the same".

Is this intended to be a philosophical statement about the nature of humanity?

Seriously, how hard is it to say, "Thank you"? I don't see how asking for a thank you post is hypocritical in any way.

Its not that hard either, just reply, type a good thank you and maybe a little compliment, submit post.

And yes sarah your right about people getting there post count up by spamming just to access the links, but i think with some good moderation those spammers can be dealt with.

As a Capcom lover, what other albums could I add that aren't already here, right?

Heh.. You'r wrong about this, there is lots (and i mean LOTS) of capcom albums that are not on GFF and in those forums. ;)
But this is off-topic.. back to the subject:


There is not any perfect system i am afraid, on some boards there is a certain number of post to achieve to have access to certain sub-forums or to see links (but that would encourage spamming).
Some other boards ask a reply to see the original post.
On others, you must upload or participate before (but like Sliat explain, that would create lots of useless uploads)

Finally there is moderation.. first the board is not set on "auto-join-with-any-fake-email-since-it's-useless", i don't even understand why it's so easy to join this board. This could lessen the number of members, 0 posters, and multiple accounts.. Once again there is like 20K Active users for 140K accounts ? How crazy is that?

You can even go further with selection.. and make it quite underground with hardcore collectors and not with every casual listeners "hey-do-you-got-xx-soundtrack-oh-great-kthxbye" of the world. (but GFF will never be a place like this).

In fact there is not any good solution.. since you can't force people to reply, you can't force anyone to thank you for your work.


Now i think a good idea would be to activate the "Download Links" forum to 10 posts minimum, and the "Requests" forum at 20.

I'd love to see more moderation indeed, with real moderators and maybe a grade system.

A simpler solution might be asking senior (or post heavy) users to become mods, but I'm not sure if you (directed to Sarah) would like the idea of others policing (of sorts) your boards, as it's common knowledge that individuals tend to have differing views of what is right and wrong. What one might frown upon and risk banning would probably seem trivial to you, or vice-versa.Then again, the concept of mods are everywhere, right? And all mod decisions would have to go through you first before action would be taken.

Protect your files the password, and send the password only to that user who will ask.

A simpler solution might be asking senior (or post heavy) users to become mods

Ash Ketchum as Mod and I'm gonna shoot myself. =P

Edit:
I'm on another download-board, and they have a "Thanks"-with-Rep-System. If you like a download, you click on a lil button and so thank for the upload. Underneath is a list in which stands which users thanked. And with every Thanks-click you'll get a reputation point or something.
Clicky me! ()

A simpler solution might be asking senior (or post heavy) users to become mods.

This is bullshit sorry.. since when a spammer in the general board (since all "heavy-posters" are there) can be a good moderator ?
And the majority of the guys hanging on the general forums does not even care about music anyway.


I like the idea of a "thanks-robot-like" though, or something that hide the link and reveals the names of those who clicked ;)

Yeah, I gotta admit that the more I thought about it, the more FFS was to big and the music forums was just a small pond in a big lake.

I keep remembering the other place I previously mentioned which banned thanking. The thanking idea to unlock features is probably the ideal choice and I can't understand why (other than the excuse of bumping) thanks should be banned.


Protect your files the password, and send the password only to that user who will ask.

Password files? That might work, I guess. You only give the password out to people with either a minimum post or upload count, but what's to stop someone who gets your password to just blatantly put it out there (or pm-ing it to others without your consent). Ban 'em, sure, but there's always ways around it (new emails, ip changing techniques), ect...

I try my best to give back after getting on here. The problem is, most of the soundtracks I own are already on here. However, I'm gonna post some FF soundtracks that I have that aren't on here. I just posted the new song from FFIV DS (Theme Of Love vocal song~not the trailer one, too)...So, yeah, I know how that goes with leechers...but then again, that's music for ya, too...

This is bullshit sorry.. since when a spammer in the general board (since all "heavy-posters" are there) can be a good moderator ?
And the majority of the guys hanging on the general forums does not even care about music anyway.


I like the idea of a "thanks-robot-like" though, or something that hide the link and reveals the names of those who clicked ;)


Don't assume that all heavy posters are in the general board...I would consider myself a heavy poster, but I stick to the Anime/VGM forum. I can't say whether those on the general forums care about music or not.

Perhaps Sarah would consider one or two mods for the music section, since that's so heavily trafficked. Maybe someone who's active here, like Sharon Agathon or Axersia or Simon B. (I know there are others, that's just off the top of my head.) It wouldn't have to be lay-down-the-smack, but more like another go-to for questions and forum issues.

Yeah, make one of the daily users a mod for the setion... As Beulah pointed out, not all the heavy posters reside in the music section. I spend a fair amount of time in the Final Fantasy sections on here... Oh, and please don't consider me to be a mod. I have my own site to maintain, and it's tough sometimes. Pick someone better suited for the job and is on here regularly...

Hidding links will result in some "THX" answers to get links, and burden the thread...
I think the way we are now is not bad.

As I said earlier, morons are everywhere.

it sort of encourages pointless additions to the forums though. people posting just to get their count up.

I have thought about trying some things to encourage participation though. possible something rep based... not EVERYTHING would require x rep to view, but there could be a special forum only for non leechers with bonus stuff [ftps, etc]There is something similar to this in a MMA forum I go to. They implemented the system for pretty much the same reason people here are grieving over music leechers here, so people can't just sign up and freeload.

The rep system is also nice for reasons other than this topic alone, for example, I thought someone had a good and informative post but I have no real way of showing appreciation for it or to show distaste for posts that are complete nonsense. With the system, that would allow for people to do this.

The rep system isn't without it's weaknesses however but it would be a bit difficult to explain atm. I'm all for the rep system though.

Hidding links will result in some "THX" answers to get links, and burden the thread...

Right there with you! But how about a thanks-per-click addon, also known as thankomat?

To up the ante, combined with a spoiler if really needed / easy

Yeah, i posted a download link yesterday for Final Fantasy IV DS's song, Theme of Love, and I went back today, and saw 4 downloads, and no thanks. Wow. Talk about being nice...

another major problem with this idea is that fewer people seeing the links = links go down faster. :-(

It's a case of having a crappy connection and most of my soundtracks being on here already. I made a thread just now with a list people can request from, uploading Chrno Crusade's soundtracks in case no-one wants to request.

I will always say thanks if I download something.

another major problem with this idea is that fewer people seeing the links = links go down faster. :-(

If access were based on post count, rep or some other system, I'd agree. But I don't think a "click the thanks button to see the links" would be a hassle for users or would deter anyone from downloading, since it's little to no extra effort. Plus, it would give uploaders some idea of how many people here like the album/rip.

I post my upload links several places, so when hosting sites give me the total number of downloads, I don't know where they're coming from. I'm more likely to upload stuff for a forum if I know people there will want to download. So for me, it's less about the thanks and more about not wanting to waste my time if no one wants the album I put up.

Just my two cents.

I think we outta try this system for atleast a week or two, see how things turn out. Should be worth a shot.

yeah, what's there to lose?

And then there's the artists too =-D

Takes way more effort to create the tracks in the first place than to rip them.

The music industry as a whole is in unbelievable turmoil right now because no one want to pay for music.

Artist who play live can do better cause they sell tickets and CDs at shows.

The people like me who create stuff that doesn't lend itself to live performances are a little screwed.

That's why I have a normal day job doing something else now...




I wonder what's going to happen to the quality of music in general if trends continue this way and it gets even harder and harder than it was before to make a living doing music.

I think we outta try this system for atleast a week or two, see how things turn out. Should be worth a shot.

just seems a bit pointless to me?

situation a: people enjoy the music but for whatever reason don't thank you.

situation b: people enjoy the music but thank you, simply because they're forced to.

though if everyone wants it I suppose I can do it if people find a hack for it on vbulletin.org.


I wonder what's going to happen to the quality of music in general if trends continue this way and it gets even harder and harder than it was before to make a living doing music.

the average number of cd's sold per year has been pretty consistently significantly higher than in the past after the advent of napster. the biggest difference is that people get exposure [and then are more likely to buy] more obscure music.

just seems a bit pointless to me?

situation a: people enjoy the music but for whatever reason don't thank you.

situation b: people enjoy the music but thank you, simply because they're forced to.

though if everyone wants it I suppose I can do it if people find a hack for it on vbulletin.org.



the average number of cd's sold per year has been pretty consistently significantly higher than in the past after the advent of napster. the biggest difference is that people get exposure [and then are more likely to buy] more obscure music.

They are not being forced to do anything, Its just the normal thing to do when soemone offers you something, and it keeps the thread alive and people will be more interested in the links.

But any case, its your decision, I just think it would be really beneficial imho.

with the "thanks button" suggestion it wouldn't actually keep the thread bumped

It could also be that the user cannot see the links unless if they reply.

that would bury new threads so fast no one would even see them though :-\

with the "thanks button" suggestion it wouldn't actually keep the thread bumped

Well, this could be a dangerous side effect! Just an idea to prevent:

Change/extend the sort order in this forums to get the thread with the last thanks on the top

Or just make the Thanks-Button a bump button as well?

no, that's my point. there are hundreds of people on the forum at any given time. most of them downloading things.

if someone makes a NEW thread, all of the old threads will instantly bury it with all of the bumps from the forced thanks. people won't even see the new gamerips.

Ohh... well... that's a good point.

Against the lines of "never change a running system"

Still ready for changes? ;)


if someone makes a NEW thread, all of the old threads will instantly bury it with all of the bumps from the forced thanks. people won't even see the new gamerips.

Another good reason! May result in the next step to find out the best sequence

ORDER BY $newest DESC

$newest could define all your priorities in terms of time

I don't mean to be a "leecher" - should I post a list of my soundtracks - or what kind of music would you guys like me to post? I have about 600 cds - no video game music but lots of rare stuff too... Please reply - so I can adjust...

I always thought the real purpose of distributing music around was so that you can share the wealth rather than expect a hundred "thank-you"s from leechers you wouldn't care about otherwise. Doesn't seem like much of a benefit from spending all your time ripping and/or uploading files.

Example: I made this thread (Thread 47505) a few days ago. There's only eight replies yet the first part of this rip I had uploaded has received at least 20 downloads so far. I don't give a damn if people post, all I care about is whether the files I upload is actually downloaded or not.

Point being: FFShrine is fine the way it is. I don't see any need for change.

Blue, I took three Superman soundtrack off of this site - I'm offering all my soundtracks and music... Should I start a thread about it? The concept of sharing hasn't been tossed out by everyone... I'm new around this kind of forum... Show me...

Heh, you replied before I could fully edit my post.

I'd say make a thread only if you have the time to actually fill and upload requests from other people. I can't decide what you should do, after all.

Against the lines of "never change a running system"

Still ready for changes? ;)



Another good reason! May result in the next step to find out the best sequence

ORDER BY $newest DESC

$newest could define all your priorities in terms of time

then threads which are continiously updated will never resurface :-\

the average number of cd's sold per year has been pretty consistently significantly higher than in the past after the advent of napster. the biggest difference is that people get exposure [and then are more likely to buy] more obscure music.


Utterly false. The number has plummetted. Just type in CD Sales Trends into Google or Live...

IE

http://blog.wired.com/music/2007/11/cd-sales-down-2.html

http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/12526/us_cd_sales_down_20_percent



Sure there's more exposure for the little guy, but that's in competition with gazillions of other little guys. It's REALLY hard to actually sell anything significant these days because people EXPECT free music.


Unless you play live I'm thinking being a professional musician that makes enough to support a family is just about impossible these days. You can make money....I've done it....but not enough for my family and current needs. The money I made was NOT through CD sales :)

1) that's on a one year time scale, not overall.

2) you didn't exactly include the entire picture... "Nielsen SoundScan says music CD sales are down 20 percent in the first quarter of 2007: digital album sales also dropped, while digital singles sales climbed."

people have been saying they want to be able to buy single tracks for eons now. they finally can. it makes sense people aren't buying cds they never wanted in the first place.

3) I never said cd sales are an ideal way to make a living. they're not now, but they never have been: the number of musicians who have been able to support themselves financially from cd sales alone has always been absurdly low.

4) most of the "sales falling !" statistics are from the riaa et all, and don't include independent labels which have obviously had explosive growth as they're getting more exposure.

and all of this is ignoring the fact that prior to internet fandom, video game music sales were essentially nil in the US.

1) that's on a one year time scale, not overall.


They also say: "CD sales have been tailing off for years, and now the infrastructure that supports them (retail stores) are reacting by using that space to sell other stuff. The CD sales drop could also accelerate faster than expected as a result."

And the second article says: "Music industry figures have shown a steady decline in music CD sales over the last several years; "



2) you didn't exactly include the entire picture... "Nielsen SoundScan says music CD sales are down 20 percent in the first quarter of 2007: digital album sales also dropped, while digital singles sales climbed."


That doesn't make up for lost CD sales, this from the second article

"however, music CDs still account for more than 90 percent of all album purchases. Nielsen's combined CD and digital album sales figures (which the company estimates by considering every 10 digital tracks to be an album) show overall album sales down 10 percent during the first quarter of 2007. "




4) most of the "sales falling !" statistics are from the riaa et all, and don't include independent labels which have obviously had explosive growth as they're getting more exposure.


Bottom line is retail stores are dying and online sales are not making up for it.

The more i think about it.. the more i think it should be unchanged.

FFS forums are good as they are now.
A new system would be too complicated, and since the forums are really active, a "forced-thanks-auto-bump-thread" system is not a really good idea.

I guess if you absolutly want your stuff to be not leeched by everyone, you could state in your post that you give the URL or a password only in private.