I've seen this debated in some threads here and there, thought it might be a good idea to make a proper thread on the subject.

I myself, think uber bosses work in some games. They don't work in FF. Why? There's a few reasons. The effort and training needed to defeat the boss, is disproportionate the reward of beating the boss. Lets have a look at some examples

Ruby WEAPON: You need KOTR to beat this guy, period. Which requires a Gold Chocobo. What's your reward for beating him? A Gold Chocobo. Oh dear.

Emerald WEAPON: You need KOTR for this guy too. And Final Attack-Phoenix(both mastered, which takes ages) Mime for 2 characters. You reward is Master magic, summon and command. Which is nice and all but by the time you can beat this guy, all your magic is mastered anyway, making it pointless.

Omega Weapon: A piece of paper proving you beat him. Whoopdy fucking do.

Ozma: Ridiculously hard, you just need an absurd amount of luck to beat him, no matter how strong. Again, a shitty reward makes the whole thing anti-climatic and pointless.

Dark Aeons and Pennace: Pointless and fuck all reward for the effort needed.

Off hand, the only game that you actually get a neat reward for beating an uber boss is Trema in X2, the Iron Duke I believe its called. Otherwise, uber bosses fail miserably in the FF series. Also, the actual game itself and the mandatory battles in ALL of the FF's pale in comparison to the uber bosses, so if you train to beat the uber boss/es, the mandatory bosses become so pathetically easy, it kills any feeling of accomplishment or climax when you go annihilate them in one hit.

Ruby WEAPON: You need KOTR to beat this guy, period. Which requires a Gold Chocobo. What's your reward for beating him? A Gold Chocobo. Oh dear.

Emerald WEAPON: You need KOTR for this guy too. And Final Attack-Phoenix(both mastered, which takes ages) Mime for 2 characters. You reward is Master magic, summon and command. Which is nice and all but by the time you can beat this guy, all your magic is mastered anyway, making it pointless.

First off I beat Emerald Weapon no problem just using physical attacks for my offensive. Beat it on my second try. I don't see why you would need all that stuff to beat it. Same goes with Ruby Weapon, though it was much harder to beat just using physicals (plus no dazers/Hades) so it took like 10 long, hard, tedious tries.

And I don't think the reward is what is important. It's the feeling that you were able to overcome a great challenge that I'm fighting for. I don't fight super-powerful bosses that are stronger than anything else in the game expecting to find something that will help me beat anything but the weaker bosses (since there are no stronger bosses, duh).

I think Omega and Shinryu from FFV were done really well since the loads of training needed to defeat uber bosses in other FFs are not necessary to defeat Omega or Shinryu (although some class training might help), while they are an extreme challenge nonetheless which can hardly be defeated through leveling up (because leveling is not all that easy at the end of FFV). Sure, you don't get anything from beating them really, but if you wanted a material reward then why did you even bother?

And I don't think the reward is what is important. It's the feeling that you were able to overcome a great challenge that I'm fighting for. I don't fight super-powerful bosses that are stronger than anything else in the game expecting to find something that will help me beat anything but the weaker bosses (since there are no stronger bosses, duh).

I think Omega and Shinryu from FFV were done really well since the loads of training needed to defeat uber bosses in other FFs are not necessary to defeat Omega or Shinryu (although some class training might help), while they are an extreme challenge nonetheless which can hardly be defeated through leveling up (because leveling is not all that easy at the end of FFV). Sure, you don't get anything from beating them really, but if you wanted a material reward then why did you even bother?

You missed my point entirely. I said that the effort required is disproportionate to the reward gained. The whole 'feeling of over-coming' a great challenge doesn't wash with me.

Agreeing on the reward being disproportionate to the effort but really, that's why they're optional. You can either choose to take them on or just leave them be. I think most players defeat optional bosses more for the challenge than the actual rewards. Others just like to get a 100% completion on a game.

Maybe they don't add anything to the plot but that's not their primary objective.

You'd do well to remember not everyone thinks like you, Vertigo. If you don't like the optional bosses because you think the rewards aren't that great, that doesn't mean others feel the same way. Like I said: maybe they're there for the challenge.

Gamers are a crazy bunch.

I see what you're getting at with what you're saying about these damn useless optional bosses that provide crappy rewards. It's pretty hard because people will complain that the bosses are too easy if SE weakened them and others will start whining if SE made them more difficult *cough* Dark Aeons and Penance *cough*. So it must be pretty hard to make these optional bosses, but one thing we should all agree on is that there should be a cool reward like a weapon or an accessory or even armor.

The worst of the Dark Aeons has to be Dark Yojimbo. You have to fight him at least seven damn times! Yeah, like we are going to kill that damn samurai who can hit 99999 with just one attack seven times and for what?! Some shitty teleport or master spheres for the sphere grid that we have already maxed out to fight them! Another idiotic essential needed is Auto Phoenix in your armor accessory which is done using customising weapons and armor. You will at least 40 to 50 Mega Phoenixes to gain the ability Auto Phoenix and when you defeat monsters to try and get some much needed Mega Phoenixes , there is only a 1/10 chance of getting them. So I thought 'Screw This!' and to this day I resent those optional bosses and any others.

I know the other method was to gain an Overdrive with your Yojimbo and pay him at leat 50,000 to 100,000 gil to get him to hopefully use Zanmato, but there was that chance you would end screaming and cursing at him for not using it.

I entirely agree with you on this matter, but there isn't much we can do about it is there.

If you resent them so much, don't take them on. If you think they're too hard and don't offer the kind of reward you wanted, leave them be. I think it's pretty silly to whine about optional bosses when you can just leave them alone and still complete the game. Others like the challenge and don't mind fiughting them just so they can say "I did it".

Optional bosses are, as mentioned before, significantly harder than the game's mandatory enemies but I don't think your point about them taking away the sense of accomplishment from defeating a regular boss is all that great.

Let's take Ozma: I doubt someone playing FFIX for the first time will take Ozma on. I'm sure there are exceptions to this but I'm talking about the majority. Not everyone will get a Gold Chocobo in their first try and soar to the Air Garden and find exactly where Ozma is. If they do, I doubt they'll be prepared to defeat Ozma. They'll just move on, finish the game and, if they feel like it, have another shot at it.

Dark Aeons? Highly doubt a first-time player will even know where to find some of them, let alone defeat them.

Why are you complaining about something that the games are not forcing you to do?

You'd do well to remember not everyone thinks like you, Vertigo. If you don't like the optional bosses because you think the rewards aren't that great, that doesn't mean others feel the same way. Like I said: maybe they're there for the challenge.

Gamers are a crazy bunch.

Oh, definetly. But own pov is that just a challenge isnt really enough for me. Eh, what can I say? I'm a greedy fucker. I just wanted to throw my two cents out there and see what people felt about it. But yeah, I understand it's very much a personal thing.


Optional bosses are, as mentioned before, significantly harder than the game's mandatory enemies but I don't think your point about them taking away the sense of accomplishment from defeating a regular boss is all that great.

A difficult task warrants a worthwhile reward, surely? And if destroying the final boss of a 20-30hr game with one attack isnt anti-climatic, I don't know what is.


Why are you complaining about something that the games are not forcing you to do?

Because the option is there, and i'm going to generally do optional quests in a game, to get the full content from it, or whatever you want to call it.

Espanha brings out some good and interesting points about gamers wanting to take on and defeat the optional bosses because they want to feel that sense of accomplishment. I seen enough Videos on youtube with people fighting the Dark Aeons or any other optional bosses with only one character to show off and let people know that they can do such a thing.

I apologize if any of my views offended you, but we all have our different views of everywhere.

Why would it be offensive?

In any event, I find those youtube vids silly and done by people with too much time on their hands, but thats me.

A difficult task warrants a worthwhile reward, surely? And if destroying the final boss of a 20-30hr game with one attack isnt anti-climatic, I don't know what is.

Have you read the rest of the post, where I take Ozma as an example and state that the majority of first-time players will not take on the optional bosses, and therefore will not miss out on the sense of accomplishment of finishing the game?


Because the option is there, and i'm going to generally do optional quests in a game, to get the full content from it, or whatever you want to call it.

I understand the sentiment, of course, but where is it written that the optional bosses have to give you the reward you want? Maybe the programmers thought the rewards offered were more than enough. Maybe the optional quests are more about the challenge and said sense of accomplishment than the material goods.

The option is there indeed, and you can also choose to walk away, no? In today's world, you can find out beforehand what the rewards are and then decide if it pleases you or not, to do a certain sidequest or defeat a certain optional boss.
In regards to all the FF's you mentioned in your initial post, this was perfectly feasible.

If you're going to complain they require more effort than they're worth, I think you missed the point. But yes, it all boils down to personal choice.

I guess I'm too much of a softie to have to actually have typed it so just forget about it and getting back onto topic involving the optional bosses. :)

I agree wholeheartly that gamers are a crazy bunch, some may decide to leave the optional bosses whatsoever while others would seek them out for either rewards or a much needed challenge even writing about this is making feel the slight urge to pop in my FFIX or any other and defeat one of those optional bosses. I guess Espanha is kinda right, there are some gamers who would want to complete every aspect of the game apart like the sidequests instead of just completing the whole story of the game.

Some gamers would get that feeling of emptiness of not completing all of it or that sudden urge to take on those bosses or do those side quests just for the hell of it. So I would think that gamers are a crazy bunch of people and you can't really anticipate what they would do whether by instinct or their own choice, it would be for example trying to figure out what came first the chicken or the egg. No one is ever going to figure out what makes all gamers tick.

I didn't think beating Shinryu was pointless(Aside from the challenge, of course.)...His chest DID have Ragnarok in it after all. It's certainly more useful than Excalibur.(I can't remember, did it have the holy element too? Or was that just FFIV? Way too many bosses in FFV absorbed Holy element, now that I think about it.) And the optional bosses in later remakes had treasures that were definitely worth it. Defeating Lunar Bahamut in FFIV Advance finally gave Kain a weapon on par with Cecil's. And Cecil gained an awesome upgrade as well, the Lightbringer. FFI's bosses in DoS gave ridiculously powerful rewards. Some of them could be obtained many times. I think giving a Black Wizard a little extra kick with Ultima Weapon is well worth a 50 floor dungeon and 3 optional bosses. FFV Advance's Neo Shinryu guarded yet another Ultima Weapon, far superior to Ragnarok, sadly. FFVI's Kaiser Dragon guarded the Diablos magicite, which made it a lot easier to raise your HP. Keep in mind, all of the optional bosses have very CHEAP means of being defeated. I'd also like to note, that I found defeating Emerald Weapon to be worth it...Not everyone manages to get the Bahamut ZERO materia. And I was nowhere near having all materia mastered, either. I know nothing of Omega Weapon from FFVIII or Ozma from FFIX. Nor the Dark Aeons from FFX International. Those are probably just for the hell of it though.

Moonlapse Vertigo, I agree strongly with your original post, but from another point of view, many people just like the challenge of the optional bosses and do not mind the reward.

Also, I believe the reward of beating Hades in FF IX was fair.

Have you read the rest of the post, where I take Ozma as an example and state that the majority of first-time players will not take on the optional bosses, and therefore will not miss out on the sense of accomplishment of finishing the game?



I understand the sentiment, of course, but where is it written that the optional bosses have to give you the reward you want? Maybe the programmers thought the rewards offered were more than enough. Maybe the optional quests are more about the challenge and said sense of accomplishment than the material goods.

The option is there indeed, and you can also choose to walk away, no? In today's world, you can find out beforehand what the rewards are and then decide if it pleases you or not, to do a certain sidequest or defeat a certain optional boss.
In regards to all the FF's you mentioned in your initial post, this was perfectly feasible.

If you're going to complain they require more effort than they're worth, I think you missed the point. But yes, it all boils down to personal choice.

Point taken.

I certainly don't have any problems with the principle of uber-bosses. My problem is a) as has been said, you don't get a really worthwhile reward, and b) there's often a huge gulf in power between the uberbosses and even the strongest normal boss in the game, forcing you to mindlessly grind against normal enemies for hours. The solution to this is to make it gradual, offer more optional bosses and quests that will increase your level (and give you reward and additional insight into the characters etc) instead of having to use fights against garden variety beasts.

So basically, have uberbosses, but don't make them so unattainable in the situation you're in at the end of the normal plot. Add other stuff to fill the gap if necessary.

FFXII did seem to be a step in the right direction, but some of the optional hunts and bosses were still way more powerful than anything else in the game.

Rant over.

Optional bosses are part of the game, even if they aren't neccesarily about the plot. If you buy the game you buy it to enjoy all aspects of it, so I can understand why people think its dumb that you dont get much for beating them.

Getting master materia and awesome stuff after you beat the hardest boss is retarded... because you would only need stuff like that to beat the hardest boss.

Getting a certificate is dumb too, I'm surprised Omega didn't have phoenix as a junction summon or something that you could use against ultimecia. But I beat Omega anyway because the final boss fight was too easy with Rinoa and I wanted a challenge.

I remember the dragons in FF6 were just *there*.


I couldn't be arsed to spend AGES beating the dark aeons. Theres no point in wasting hours on so many bosses like that. I beat the weapons.