I bought X-2 and wasn't very impressed like I was with other final fantasies. I know I probably should of bought X first because it came out first and lots of people think X-2 is a horrible game, but would you say X is good enough to buy?

I basically have all the Final Fantasies from 1-9 if you count the remade versions of 1-6 for the gameboy advance and DS, but I don't have X (or XI for that matter, but I have heard that it isn't that great). I would probably understand the X-2 storyline much better if I did get it.

X is the most well-rounded one yet. It can be a little confusing at first but once you get the hang of it, it is one of the most entertaining and touching games you will ever play.

X is a great game, but much of the catch is in the storyline, which will pretty much be ruined for you if you've already played through X-2. I'd advise you to give it a shot though. And don't get XI. It's crap.

Sp0iler, highlight to view.

I'd describe this game as a blown opportunity to write a powerful, non-contrived, coherent ending to an otherwise intelligent, powerful, and emotionally gripping story. But I'll spare you my rants on FFX, since I've gone on at length about it elsewhere on the forum.

End Spoiler.

Stay away from the chocobo training sidequest. The seagulls will make you want to tear out your hair.

Hey, if this person enjoyed the atrocious storytelling in VII and VIII, there's no reason X's lousy ending would be a turn-off. Also, it's pretty obvious that gameplay is not a major concern to this person if he/she didn't like X-2, so X's broken gameplay shouldn't be a problem.

Broken Gameplay? BROKEN GAMEPLAY??? In FINAL FANTASY X????

Oh my god... that's new to me.

Is it the awfully designed Blitzball? In which you have almost no control on the game...In which you are told that stats matters but that in the end, it's a randomization that will decide the outcome?

Is it the Chocobo Chaser minigame that you have to do in order to get Tidus' Ultimate weapon? In which for some crazy reason, birds that are nowhere to be seen in the rest of the game feel the rush to fly in your face because of course, it is a MINIGAME so logic don't apply there, right? Some say you mostly need skills to manage a 0:00:00 score... Bullshit. Everytime I did, it was by luck. You cannot predict when those fucking birds are going to appear right in your face!!!

Is it the linearity of the game? How boring is it that during the whole game, you only run from corridors to corridors and Temples to Temples... YAWN!!!

The Sphere Grid? The Weapon and Armor system? The Summons?

Oh man, this is what you call broken gameplay?? Really?

Honestly, FFX is the only game in the series that I never did completely.

I always quit playing when I'm at the end, boosting each characters to get everything. It is so boring it is not even funny.

And the Story... God, how promising it looked like when I first played through the demo. And what a let down was it to discover everything Epic about the game was left in Zanarkand when Auron and Tidus got swallowed by Sin. This was intriguing, but what came after was just poorly cooked melodrama with a Fantasy sauce.

ANd Seymour... Seymour.... SEYMOUR... what an empty character he is. No motives whatsoever other than "be evil, we need a villain to hold the characters from getting to Sin too fast"...)

In any case, at least FFX-2 didn't try to pretend it had a story, but at least it did have one heck of a strong gameplay. Even if you had to get a Guide to finish it 100%.



X is the most well-rounded one yet. It can be a little confusing at first but once you get the hang of it, it is one of the most entertaining and touching games you will ever play.

You got to be kidding me! As of today, there is no game in the series after the SNES era that come close to FFIX in term of quality of execution. This game is almost flawless, while FFX is probably the most broken after FFVII.

Hynad, you've validated my hatred for FFX.

I love you. ;)

HA ha! You're welcome. ^^

But I did forget to mention that FFX's OST is probably the weakest in the series.
Apart from some rare theme (To Zanarkand, Suteki Da Ne and its many variations, Macalania Woods and some other "field themes") most of the sountrack is pretty forgettable. Is that due to the fact that for the first time in the series, the OST wasn't entirely composed by Uematsu and was thus a bit "broken" (to keep to ongoing expression)?


I swear, if I hear the Hymn to the Faith one more time, my head will explode.

-SPOILERS-













Broken Gameplay? BROKEN GAMEPLAY??? In FINAL FANTASY X????

Oh my god... that's new to me.

All right, here goes.


Is it the awfully designed Blitzball? In which you have almost no control on the game...In which you are told that stats matters but that in the end, it's a randomization that will decide the outcome?

That's a pretty weak attack on Blitz. To say you have no control over the game is nonsense. If you're too retarded to be able to switch the movement from 'auto' to 'manual' then yeah, you have no control. Otherwise, assuming you can perform this simple task, I don't see your point. You have complete control over the ball carrier, which is enough for me. Trying to allow you to control multiple players (ie ball carrier and other teammates at the same time) would only have made it overly complicated and ultimately less fun.

And it's sure a hell of a lot better than X-2 which grants you literally no direct control over any of your players. Although X-2's blitz is still enjoyable.

Also, (in X's blitz) you have access to a wealth of tactical options via the formations.

As for your criticism of randomized stats. Are you off your head? If the game had had no randomizations whatsoever (and let's not forget, it only randomizes between 50% and 150% of the base stat) then the game would have been dreadfully predictable.


Is it the Chocobo Chaser minigame that you have to do in order to get Tidus' Ultimate weapon? In which for some crasy reason, birds that are nowhere to be seen in the rest of the game feel the rush to fly in your face because of course, it is a MINIGAME so logic don't apply there, right? Some say you need mostly skills to manage a 0:00:00 score... Bullshit. Everytime I did, it was by luck. You cannot predict when those fucking birds are going to appear right in your face!!!

Every FF game has some sort of insanely difficult task that requires doing to unlock ultimate weapons, accessories, cards etc. Whilst I agree that trying to get 0 seconds on the chocobo minigame was an incredibly dull challenge, it's no different from say, doing the Hippaul running challenge on FFIX. Thus, as an attack on the game itself, it's fairly weak.


Is it the linearity of the game? How boring is it that during the whole game, you only run from corridors to corridors and Temples to Temples... YAWN!!!

The temples are there in place of the equally tasking dungeons which appear in any FF and actually tie into the plot on a fundemental level. Therefore, they're more of a plus than a minus for the game.

The plot is far from boring. It has one of the best sets of characters if not the best in any FF. All of them except maybe Auron and Rikku experience good development, and the plot twists are timed perfectly to guide this development.


The Sphere Grid? The Weapon and Armor system? The Summons?

Oh man, this is what you call broken gameplay?? Really?

What were your specific criticisms of above aspects? I fail to see how they are broken. The only possible hint of brokeness is with the fact that on the beginner Sphere Grid Kimahri is briefly restricted to a confined space. Of course, you can just select the Expert SG and be done with that flaw.


Honestly, FFX is the only game in the series that I never did completely.

I always quit playing when I'm at the end, boosting each characters to get everything. It is so boring it is not even funny.

There's your problem right there. If you try to do everything there is to do in one playthrough it stagnates, admittedly. However, the fact that it has all these optional quests to do is a strength in terms of replayability value.

Square obviously designed those aspects of the game for repeaters. At no point are you under any obligation to do any of those optional tasks and the game can easily be completed without doing them.


And the Story... God, how promising it looked like when I first played through the demo. And what a let down was it to discover everything Epic about the game was left in Zanarkand when Auron and Tidus got swallowed by Sin. This was intriguing, but what came after was just poorly cooked melodrama with a Fantasy sauce.

For the second time in this answer, please be more specific. It's easy to throw around negative comments like that but that's entirely your opinion unless you can actually say what it was about the game you found to be poorly cooked melodrama.


ANd Seymour... Seymour.... SEYMOUR... what an empty character he is. No motives whatsoever other than "be evil, we need a villain to hold the characters from getting to Sin too fast"...)

His motive was to destroy Spira by becoming Yuna's final aeon and thereafter becming Sin. He wanted to do this because Spira was caught in the 'spiral of death'. He thought having no life would be preferable to having miserable life where people constantly live in fear of death, and proposed to 'save' Spira by destroying it.

Rather similar to Necron's motives, really. You like FFIX don't you?


In any case, at least FFX-2 didn't try to pretend it had a story, but at least it did have one heck of a strong gameplay. Even if you had to get a Guide to finish it 100%.

FFX-2 had a good battle system and was a generally good game (although some of the optional missions were exceptionally dull). However, I believe it owes a lot to FFX. For starters, the setting and chracters were already well developed from FFX, leaving Square free to essentially spend much of their development time on the game's plot, which was fairly short, and gameplay issues like the battle system. Therefore, you can understand the step-up in gameplay given that FFX-2 was over a year in development.


You got to be kidding me! As of today, there is no game in the series after the SNES era that come close to FFIX in term of quality of execution. This game is almost flawless, while FFX is probably the most broken after FFVII.

I take it you haven't played FFVIII then? That is undeniably more broken than FFX for a number of reasons that myself and other have already expressed on here.

HA ha! You're welcome. ^^

But I did forget to mention that FFX's OST is probably the weakest in the series.
Apart from some rare theme (To Zanarkand, Suteki Da Ne and its many variations, Macalania Woods and some other "field themes") most of the sountrack is pretty forgettable. Is that due to the fact that for the first time in the series, the OST wasn't entirely composed by Uematsu and was thus a bit "broken" (to keep to ongoing expression)?


I swear, if I hear the Hymn to the Faith one more time, my head will explode.

I am slightly inclined to agree with you here. In terms of music, it did not reach the standards of FFIX, in my opinion. However, I would not say it is the worst in the series. It was certainly no weaker than FFX-2 in my opinion.

And of course, this is all opinion. No FF has had bad music. You just either like it or you don't and this will vary from person to person.

Ceidwad, I think someone should step in here and remind you that this thread was made by someone who has never played FFX, and as such is entirely the wrong place for any sort of spoiler-heavy debate.

Point taken Prak. I just got so over-zealous in my defense of the game that I forgot about who made the thread, I guess.

There's a good chance s/he won't have seen it yet, so I've added a 'spoiler' tag to my post.

Hynad, if you want to carry on this debate, I'd be happy to do it in another thread or via PM.

IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!
************************************************** ***


POSSIBLE SPOILERS ALERT!!!!
**********************



Oh, someone is called Final Fantasy X around here and I hurt his feelings...

My bad.


All right, here goes.
That's a pretty weak attack on Blitz. To say you have no control over the game is nonsense. If you're too retarded to be able to switch the movement from 'auto' to 'manual' then yeah, you have no control. Otherwise, assuming you can perform this simple task, I don't see your point. You have complete control over the ball carrier, which is enough for me.

There you said it, but it wasn't enough for me.


Trying to allow you to control multiple players (ie ball carrier and other teammates at the same time) would only have made it overly complicated and ultimately less fun.

For some reasons, I am picturing you as struggling to do a pass while playing NHL 07...



Also, (in X's blitz) you have access to a wealth of tactical options via the formations.

Tactical via formations? Oh sure, clearly a wealth! Mark mode, Normal mode, Right and Left mode... OMFG!!! Formations make the game so deep, I didn't even realize that!!


As for your criticism of randomized stats. Are you off your head? If the game had had no randomizations whatsoever (and let's not forget, it only randomizes between 50% and 150% of the base stat) then the game would have been dreadfully predictable.

There you pointed at the reasons why the whole dinamic of the Blitz is broken and should have been thought better. Even the Card game of FFVIII was better designed and you could calculate in advance if yes or no you'd win. If you had the brain to do so that is.



Every FF game has some sort of insanely difficult task that requires doing to unlock ultimate weapons, accessories, cards etc. Whilst I agree that trying to get 0 seconds on the chocobo minigame was an incredibly dull challenge, it's no different from say, doing the Hippaul running challenge on FFIX. Thus, as an attack on the game itself, it's fairly weak.

Fairly weak? Not quite. Hippaul's race was pretty straightforward. No fuckin mouse would appear out of nowhere to make me trip. It was sheer skill and determination. The chocobo Chaser minigame is Mostly luck with some fortume thrown in the equation.


The temples are there in place of the equally tasking dungeons which appear in any FF and actually tie into the plot on a fundemental level. Therefore, they're more of a plus than a minus for the game.

Oh god yeah they are, almost all the same! Take that stone, put that there, put that other stone, and put that at the other place. Oh!! and don't forget the unique Destruction stone. There is one in each temple, don't you forget about it! It will be the key to unlucking Anima!!! You don't want to miss it!!

In any case, you totally missed my point about the game's linearity. If you enjoy spending 60+ hours in hospital corridors, that's your thing. I prefer having the old school "world map" kind of progression.


The plot is far from boring. It has one of the best sets of characters if not the best in any FF. All of them except maybe Auron and Rikku experience good development, and the plot twists are timed perfectly to guide this development.

Best set of characters? Apart from Tidus and Yuna and maybe Wakka, most of them are 2D characters.


What were your specific criticisms of above aspects? I fail to see how they are broken. The only possible hint of brokeness is with the fact that on the beginner Sphere Grid Kimahri is briefly restricted to a confined space. Of course, you can just select the Expert SG and be done with that flaw.

The Expert SG is in the International version of the game, not the US one.



There's your problem right there. If you try to do everything there is to do in one playthrough it stagnates, admittedly. However, the fact that it has all these optional quests to do is a strength in terms of replayability value.

Did I say I only did the game once? I said I couldn't be arsed to do a complete game. For reason as obvious as the ones I stated.


Square obviously designed those aspects of the game for repeaters. At no point are you under any obligation to do any of those optional tasks and the game can easily be completed without doing them.


Oh sure, great... Like, you don't have to get all 120 Stars in Mario 64, but you do because it is fun. While in FFX I don't get everything, not because I don't have to, but because it is not fun at all



For the second time in this answer, please be more specific. It's easy to throw around negative comments like that but that's entirely your opinion unless you can actually say what it was about the game you found to be poorly cooked melodrama.

Nope, You will try to convince me that I am wrong. Which is futile. If you don't see the broken parts of FFX because you're in adoration of the game, then you're as far away from my position that is humanly possible.



His motive was to destroy Spira by becoming Yuna's final aeon and thereafter becming Sin. He wanted to do this because Spira was caught in the 'spiral of death'. He thought having no life would be preferable to having miserable life where people constantly live in fear of death, and proposed to 'save' Spira by destroying it.

Rather similar to Necron's motives, really. You like FFIX don't you?

That's great, you take the game that was intended to be an homage to the series for example. The way they handled Seymour in FFX was predictable at best.


FFX-2 had a good battle system and was a generally good game (although some of the optional missions were exceptionally dull). However, I believe it owes a lot to FFX. For starters, the setting and chracters were already well developed from FFX, leaving Square free to essentially spend much of their development time on the game's plot, which was fairly short, and gameplay issues like the battle system. Therefore, you can understand the step-up in gameplay given that FFX-2 was over a year in development.

What are you talking about? The battle system wasn't better because Square had more time to polish it. It was better because they took a much more versatile system (the job system from FFIII and V) and improved it.
They didn't build it from scratch so the time spent on the game certainly didn't affect that part much. As for the other mini games, they didn't tend to rely mostly on luck, unlike some in FFX. Skills is what VideoGames should be about foremost, then luck. Not the other way around.


I take it you haven't played FFVIII then? That is undeniably more broken than FFX for a number of reasons that myself and other have already expressed on here.

I take it you didn't get the part where I said that "FFX is the only game in the series that I never did completely"...

And just because some people share this opinion, doesn't mean I do.
FFVIII was a much more refreshing game than X ever was to me. Most games in the series have broken parts. I only happen to see more of them in FFX than in all the others.

And of course, this is all opinion. ............................ You just either like it or you don't and this will vary from person to person.


That was quoted for your own good. Keep those words in mind the next time.

Oh, someone is called Final Fantasy X around here and I hurt his feelings...

My bad.

Since when was I 'called' Final Fantasy X? I'm not saying the game was perfect or being a fanboy. I'm simply dispelling your complaints against it. If that makes me a fanboy, then so is anyone who thinks you're talking nonsense. And I can't be the only one.


All right, here goes.
That's a pretty weak attack on Blitz. To say you have no control over the game is nonsense. If you're too retarded to be able to switch the movement from 'auto' to 'manual' then yeah, you have no control. Otherwise, assuming you can perform this simple task, I don't see your point. You have complete control over the ball carrier, which is enough for me.



There you said it, but it wasn't enough for me.

That's nice. I've still completely dispelled your original complaint and will get to to the complexities of your argument in a minute.


Trying to allow you to control multiple players (ie ball carrier and other teammates at the same time) would only have made it overly complicated and ultimately less fun.


For some reasons, I am picturing you has struggling to do a pass while playing NHL 07...

Did it ever occur to you that Blitzball wasn't actually ever meant to be, nor could it reasonably be expected to be, anywhere near as in-depth as a dedicated sports game? It's a minigame in an RPG, not NHL 07. Also, you put the gamers needs in perspective. People who play RPGs aren't necessarily going to have experience of playing sports games, so are going to appreciate a more simple approach. Blitzball struck a decent (albeit not perfect) balance between being completely dumbed down and overly complicated thus putting off first timers.


Also, (in X's blitz) you have access to a wealth of tactical options via the formations.


Tactical via formations? Oh sure, clearly a wealth! Mark mode, Normal mode, Right and Left mode... OMFG!!! Formations make the game so deep, I didn't even realise that!!

There are, iirc, 7 or 8 formations you can choose from. Having to unlock them sucked, but they certainly made winning both more achievable (even against the Al Bhed Psyches) and more rewarding. And they do add something to the game

Edit: Just to go a little further into the formation thing. They could often help you win against the odds. All-out defence was great if you had taken a 1 goal lead but had inferior players to the opposition. Combining that formation with tackling techs for your whole team made you almost impenetrable even with the original Aurochs. And Flat Line was a cool one that would help you retain possession well as you'd have your 5 outfield players in a roughly similar area.


As for your criticism of randomized stats. Are you off your head? If the game had had no randomizations whatsoever (and let's not forget, it only randomizes between 50% and 150% of the base stat) then the game would have been dreadfully predictable.


There you pointed at the reasons why the whole dinamic of the Blitz is broken and should have been thought better. Even the Card game of FFVIII was better designed and you could calculate in advance if yes or no you'd win. If you had the brain to do so that is.

So the fact that the game isn't purely down to base stats with the same teams winning each time makes it bad? Give me a break. Bearing in mind that the Al Bhed Psyches and Luca Goers are light years ahead of your starting line-up and you have to spend big to get the best players (who also don't become available til later on), doing it your way would make it impossible to win games for a vast chunk of the game. And when you finally get the gil to hire that super-team, you're guaranteed to win every single time? No thanks. That takes away any player involvement and would make the game like watching paint dry.

Just like the variable of having the specific Same/Plus etc rule in FFVIII's cards, having formations and actual player input in Blitzball made it infinitely stronger, not weaker.


Every FF game has some sort of insanely difficult task that requires doing to unlock ultimate weapons, accessories, cards etc. Whilst I agree that trying to get 0 seconds on the chocobo minigame was an incredibly dull challenge, it's no different from say, doing the Hippaul running challenge on FFIX. Thus, as an attack on the game itself, it's fairly weak.


Fairly weak? Not quite. Hippaul's race was pretty straightforward. No fuckin mouse would appear out of nowhere to make me trip. It was sheer skill and determination. The chocobo Chaser minigame is Mostly luck with some fortume thrown in the equation.

Although I see your point here, Hippaul's race was pretty frustrating. I found that once you got up to the higher levels, where you actually got the decent rewards, you needed zen-like button bashing abilities to do it.

Also, button bashing ftl. Not only is it dull, the repetitive strain injury it causes is a bitch, too.


The temples are there in place of the equally tasking dungeons which appear in any FF and actually tie into the plot on a fundemental level. Therefore, they're more of a plus than a minus for the game.


Oh god yeah they are, almost all the same! Take that stone, put that there, put that other stone, and put that at the other place. Oh!! and don't forget the unique Destruction stone. There is one in each temple, don't you forget about it! It will be the key to unlucking Anima!!! You don't want to miss it!!

The fact that they all the temples were similar in concept did not make them bad. I honestly don't see the difference between them and any other dungeon grind in the series. Take FFXII for example.

Also, why are the destruction spheres a bad thing? And why should you expect to get one of the game's most powerful aeons (ie Anima) without having to do anything out of the way?


In any case, you totally missed my point about the game's linearity. If you enjoy spending 60+ hours in hospital corridors, that's your thing. I prefer having the old school "world map" kind of progression.

And that's your opinion. You're entirely entitled to it, but unless you can say what was actually bad about not having a world map, it doesn't become a valid critique of the game, nor does it qualify as 'broken gameplay'. 'Broken gameplay' is something all gamers can more or less agree is a bad thing, regardless of whether they like the game under scrutiny or not.


The plot is far from boring. It has one of the best sets of characters if not the best in any FF. All of them except maybe Auron and Rikku experience good development, and the plot twists are timed perfectly to guide this development.


Best set of characters? Apart from Tidus and Yuna and maybe Wakka, most of them are 2D characters.

They certainly experience more widespread development than those in other FFs, with the possible exceptions of FFIX and FFX-2. As well as those you mentioned I think Lulu and Kimahri also develop well.

The two best characters are Wakka and Lulu the Yevonites. Contrasting styles with one being outspoken while the other is calmer, but both struggle with the same issue-the fact they have been indoctrinated with the teachings and struggle with the realisation that all they thought to be gospel has been turned on its head and that Yevon was not what they thought it was. Wakka in particular develops well with his dislike of the Al Bhed and Machina being overcome as he develops a relationship with Rikku.

Kimahri develops well in the last third or so of the game. When he triumphs over Biran and Yenke he learns that his broken horn and childhood aren't things to run away from as he did but to face up to and bounce back from. Even though he doesn't have much dialogue they still managed to give him a well developed personality.

Yuna does most of here development in FFX-2, but there is some development in X also.

Auron and Rikku on the other hand could not have developed without it being forced. Rikku has already overcome a lot of shit in her life due to the fact she is an Al Bhed and therefore would naturally be inclined to take anything in her stride and not change much as a result.

While Auron can't change-he already did his development on the pilgrimage with Jecht and Braska. He knows everything about Spira, so how would you propose he develop?

Of all FFX's main characters I would say maybe Yuna was slightly disappointing but the others are all very well developed.


What were your specific criticisms of above aspects? I fail to see how they are broken. The only possible hint of brokeness is with the fact that on the beginner Sphere Grid Kimahri is briefly restricted to a confined space. Of course, you can just select the Expert SG and be done with that flaw.


The Expert SG is in the International version of the game, not the US one.

Well fine. Us PAL users found no flaws with those things then. :)

And seriously, other than that, what was wrong with the weapons, armour, summons and Sphere Grid? Bearing in mind that Kimahri would not be stuck all that long, and you would not lose the sphere levels he gained in that time anyway, so he would not be disadvantaged?


There's your problem right there. If you try to do everything there is to do in one playthrough it stagnates, admittedly. However, the fact that it has all these optional quests to do is a strength in terms of replayability value.


Did I say I only did the game once? I said I couldn't be arsed to do a complete game. For reason as obvious as the ones I stated.

None of the reasons you've given for not at least completing the main plot have any merit. True, you may be right about the entirely optional chocobo run, but......


Square obviously designed those aspects of the game for repeaters. At no point are you under any obligation to do any of those optional tasks and the game can easily be completed without doing them.


Oh sure, great... Like, you don't have to get all 120 Stars in Mario 64, but you do because it is fun. While in FFX I don't get everything, not because I don't have to, but because it is not fun at all

Again. You are most likely right on the chocobo run. Another poor minigame is the lightning bolt dodging. However, there is plenty of other stuff to do in FFX if that's not your bag, and most of those things are nowhere near as flawed as you make out. Particularly blitz, which offers some of the game's best items if you are successful. See my comments on your complaints above.

Two poor minigames (both of which are nearly inconsequential) do not a poor game make.


For the second time in this answer, please be more specific. It's easy to throw around negative comments like that but that's entirely your opinion unless you can actually say what it was about the game you found to be poorly cooked melodrama.


Nope, You will try to convince me that I am wrong. Which is futile. If you don't see the broken parts of FFX because you're in adoration of the game, then you're as far away from my position that is humanly possible.

At what point do you realise that since you were the one who made the criticism here, it is your job to back it up when I query you on it? Saying that 'You don't see the broken parts of FFX because you are in adoration of it' is in my opinion another way of saying 'I made a criticism of the game (that it was poorly cooked melodrama, to be precise), but really I didn't know what I was talking about and will try to pass the buck to save some sort of face'

When you say what specifics of FFX were 'poorly cooked melodrama', then I will be happy to respond to what you have to say. Saying I'm blinded by my love of the game is a complete non-response.


His motive was to destroy Spira by becoming Yuna's final aeon and thereafter becming Sin. He wanted to do this because Spira was caught in the 'spiral of death'. He thought having no life would be preferable to having miserable life where people constantly live in fear of death, and proposed to 'save' Spira by destroying it.

Rather similar to Necron's motives, really. You like FFIX don't you?


That's great, you take the game that was intended to be an homage to the series for example. They way they handled Seymour in FFX was predictable at best.

I don't see the point you're trying to make here. It's OK for a certain type of Final Fantasy game to have a certain type of villain, but when that sort of villain shows up in a Final Fantasy game that's a bit different to the norm it's predictable? Aside from the fact that Necron wasn't introduced until very late in FFIX and was therefore 'unpredictable' in a way, I guess. But they simply couldn't have done the same with Seymour as he had far more to do with the actual plot.


FFX-2 had a good battle system and was a generally good game (although some of the optional missions were exceptionally dull). However, I believe it owes a lot to FFX. For starters, the setting and chracters were already well developed from FFX, leaving Square free to essentially spend much of their development time on the game's plot, which was fairly short, and gameplay issues like the battle system. Therefore, you can understand the step-up in gameplay given that FFX-2 was over a year in development.


What are you talking about? The battle system wasn't better because Square had more time to polish it. It was better because they took a much more versatile system (the job system from FFIII and V) and improved it.

They didn't build it from scratch so the time spent on the game certainly didn't affect that part much. As for the other mini games, they didn't tend to rely mostly on luck, unlike some in FFX. Skills is what VideoGames should be about foremost, then luck. Not the other way around.

The fact remains that they still had more time to focus on improving the jobs system. I'm not knocking the dresspheres system, I'm a big fan, in fact I consider it to be the best in any FF to date. I'm just saying that the fact Square didn't need to spend time laying foundations for the characters, designing locations, and thinking up a back story inevitably gave them time to focus on other things like the battle system.


I take it you haven't played FFVIII then? That is undeniably more broken than FFX for a number of reasons that myself and other have already expressed on here.


I take it you didn't get the part where I said that "FFX is the only game in the series that I never did completely"...

And just because some people share this opinion, doesn't mean I do.
FFVIII was a much more refreshing game than X ever was to me. Most game in the series have broken parts. I only happen to see more of them in FFX than in all the others.

I could write down all the problems I had with FFVIII. However, I wrote up a nice long essay outlining the main issues a few days ago which will save me the effort of typing them down again.

Mine is the latest post in this thread (Thread 9566)

And bear in mind these are actual issues here. Not opinions.


And of course, this is all opinion. ............................ You just either like it or you don't and this will vary from person to person.


That was quoted for your own good. Keep those words in mind the next time.

Bearing in mind that specific quote was related to FFX's music and that music is a hard to thing to really finger as 'bad' in the same way other things are.

Anyway. Just for the record, I've no problem with people who have different opinions about games. I'm not that petty. However, if someone slaps together a load of things they don't like but (for the most part) aren't actually flaws, and labels them as being such, I feel that as a fan of the game (but certainly not a fanboy) it's my job to reply in a frank manner.

We're going to go in circle from here on. As I said, you like something that I really dislike. You gave reasons why you do, and I did too. I think your reasons for liking it suck and lack insight. You think the same for my reasons.

Both of us aren't going to get anything from all this.

FFX was to me a really badly paced, boringly linear and poorly executed game.
It is to me one of the worst game in the series.

To you, it's the complete opposite.


I don't see how a common ground can be attained.




Just a thing though. I think it would be good for you to post the definition of "flaw" in your next reply.

And it's sure a hell of a lot better than X-2 which grants you literally no direct control over any of your players. Although X-2's blitz is still enjoyable.

You could play blitz in X-2?? *blink*

Weird. I never knew that.

I never knew that either but then again I only rented X-2 and I never got more than a 46% on it. X-2 was WAY too easy if you ask me, I don't think I had a game over even once.

Long argument is long.

i like final fantasy, but the gameplay could be a bit more creative, sometimes.

and yeah, the blitzball and chocobo games are lame.

the ff8 card game was good though.


-

We're going to go in circle from here on. As I said, you like something that I really dislike. You gave reasons why you do, and I did too. I think your reasons for liking it suck and lack insight. You think the same for my reasons.

Both of us aren't going to get anything from all this.

FFX was to me a really badly paced, boringly linear and poorly executed game.
It is to me one of the worst game in the series.

To you, it's the complete opposite.


I don't see how a common ground can be attained.




Just a thing though. I think it would be good for you to post the definition of "flaw" in your next reply.

'gameplay flaw' (Final Fantasy term)

-a plot hole
-character development that is out of character or forced; or non-development without good reason
-a gameplay issue that is abuseable and makes the game much easier to beat when abused (eg: refining 100 Curagas for 3000HP at level 10, or keeping your characters at HP critical status for multiple Renzokukens in FFVIII, or constantly beating up defenceless wolves in the Dalmasca Estersand for quick LP in FFXII, or using the W-Item trick to make dozens of Megalixirs in FFVII)

In general (though not always), if something doesn't fall into those three categories, I would consider a complaint regarding it to be opinion, not fact.

You may not like the fact that FFX is rather linear because there are few detours. Others of us will state that we don't need any detours because we just want to get on with the main plot, and also, as you get towards the end, optional stuff becomes available (eg Remiem Temple) that ties in with the main plot. Who has proven more there? Neither of us. It is just a difference in opinion.

Conversely, something which cannot be put down to difference of opinion are FFVII's plot holes or FFVIII's Junction and limit break system which makes the first half of the game insanely easy.

To demonstrate my point I'll give you a scenario where the Junction system is massively abusable. You get the Siren GF from Dollet, spend 30 AP learning L-Mag RF and notice you have a Tent in your inventory which refines into ten Curagas. With Tents being relatively cheap and the fact that you can simply walk around and collect money as a salary, you grind for a short while and soon with the benefit of HP-J plus Quezacotl and Ifrit GFs have two characters with 3000+ HP in the early part of Disc 1. You then use the Magical Lamp to get Diablos and a third HP-J.

Moving on, you then realise you can stay in HP critical status comfortably because you have 700-800HP at HP critical status which is more than enough to survive the attacks of any enemy at this stage of the game. Thus you can use Limit Breaks every turn and stay alive easily. This equals easy wins in any battle for the most of the first disc.

And at the start of the second disc you can draw Regens from Biggs in the D-District prison. So that's 5000-odd HP, depending on level. And of course, you have HP+20% and HP+40% available to learn at that point in the game which can give you over 7000 HP if used to their full potential.

You tell me that isn't utterly broken.

Anyhow, that rant over, let's put a wrap on this post.

A common ground can easily be attained if you can back up your original claims. For example, we've already reached common ground on the chocobo training thing which I think is generally accepted as being a poor effort. The rest of your claims I've either completely dispelled as being nonsense or have simply quoted examples from other FF games that make them no better than FFX in that particular regard.

Remember, this is a debate about FFX in relation to other FFs. None of us here (even the game's fans) have claimed FFX is perfect. We simply claim that on the balance of everything, it is at least as good as any other game in the series, and probably the best. Maybe FFIX is better, although I honestly love FFIX too so have no problem with it.


You could play blitz in X-2?? *blink*

Weird. I never knew that.

You could, but you had no control over the actions of your players. It was more like a management minigame although in some ways managed to address some of the problems with FFX's blitzball.

I didn't like it that much because the opposition didn't level up as you did and also the gulfs in quality between the teams were too great and that meant you ended up with ridiculous 7-0 thrashings the first umpteen games you played.

Long argument is long.

Yes. Unfortunately, when I get into a debate, I have a tendency to go off on a massive tangent. I'm working on it. :)

To demonstrate my point I'll give you a scenario where the Junction system is massively abusable. You get the Siren GF from Dollet, spend 30 AP learning L-Mag RF and notice you have a Tent in your inventory which refines into ten Curagas. With Tents being relatively cheap and the fact that you can simply walk around and collect money as a salary, you grind for a short while and soon with the benefit of HP-J plus Quezacotl and Ifrit GFs have two characters with 3000+ HP in the early part of Disc 1. You then use the Magical Lamp to get Diablos and a third HP-J.

Moving on, you then realise you can stay in HP critical status comfortably because you have 700-800HP at HP critical status which is more than enough to survive the attacks of any enemy at this stage of the game. Thus you can use Limit Breaks every turn and stay alive easily. This equals easy wins in any battle for the most of the first disc.

And at the start of the second disc you can draw Regens from Biggs in the D-District prison. So that's 5000-odd HP, depending on level. And of course, you have HP+20% and HP+40% available to learn at that point in the game which can give you over 7000 HP if used to their full potential.

Holy crap!!! I've never heard of that exploit, and I've played FF8 a shit-load of times. I totally have to try it, now. :D

Tip of the iceberg, seriously.

There are plenty of other things you can do with the Junction/refining system to make the game piss easy. For example, using Tool-RF, you can buy Magic, GF, Item and Draw scrolls from the shop in Timber and turn them into Wizard Stones. Just one of a number of things you can do.

Whilst it can be cool to be virtually untouchable for the first two discs, it also ruins any element of challenge, especially combined with the brokeness of the Limit Breaks system.

You may call FFVIII's junction broken, and that it makes the EARLY parts of the game fairly easy. But tell me about one FF that isn't easy in its early parts.

One thing I know for sure, the later parts of FFVIII are a lot tougher. But of course, like almost every FFs, most of the hard stuff comes from the optional side events.

FFII and V are to me the only 2 games in the series that were hard. The others offer some tough challenges (Omega Weapons in VIII, Ozma in IX, the Monster Arena in X, Yiazmat and Omega in XII...) But their main quest is just as easy as FF VIII.

So to say it really makes the game too easy is quite ridiculous to me, because I don't remember having seen a gameover screen in one of my playthrough until I was near the end of the games.

You may call FFVIII's junction broken, and that it makes the EARLY parts of the game fairly easy. But tell me about one FF that isn't easy in its early parts.

One thing I know for sure, the later parts of FFVIII are a lot tougher. But of course, like almost every FFs, most of the hard stuff comes from the optional side events.

FFII and V are to me the only 2 games in the series that were hard. The others offer some tough challenges (Omega Weapons in VIII, Ozma in IX, the Monster Arena in X, Yiazmat and Omega in XII...) But their main quest is just as easy as FF VIII.

So to say it really makes the game too easy is quite ridiculous to me, because I don't remember having seen a gameover screen in one of my playthrough until I was near the end of the games.

Fairly easy? It makes it ridiculously easy. You can leave the battles running in the middle to go and make yourself a sandwich, it's that easy. Don't worry, the Funguars will barely make a scratch on your 3000 max HP.

FFVIII doesn't start getting hard(ish) till Ultimecia Castle, and that's way too late. Even on disc 2 and 3 with a little knowledge of the Junction system you are still far too good for most opponents.

It is true that most other FFs are generally easy in the early stages. However the early bosses in most of them at least possess a modicum of challenge. So would the early bosses in FFVIII, if it weren't for a system that allows you to get level 3 elemental spells a few hours in. That should not be the case at all, and is clearly the sign of broken gameplay. You can't argue against that, even if you do have a valid point regarding the difficulty level of other FFs, which is debateable.

Also, another criticism of the system that I have is that you can take 3 characters, load them all up with the very best spells, and that's it. There's no need to use the other 3, and you can have exactly the same magic on your three active characters with no restrctions. The developers therefore make it completely pointless to even try and give your characters roles. The same sort of applies in FFVII with the Materia, but at least the very best spells and summons were limited to one character (unless you spent a huge amount of time dividing them). Anyway, in both cases, you can have three identical characters throughout the entire game. At least FFX made sure that if you wanted to create a god-like all-rounder, you had to grind for a very long time, and for the vast majority of the game, having a role for each character actually meant something.

I have absolutely no problems with FFs being easy in part. I usually take the time to do everything that is possible in the games so I usually get a challenge at some point.

What has been bothering me so far with this debate is that you dismiss my complaints about FFX by basically telling me that what you do is take it the way it is and accept it. I tell you that Blitzball is broken, but you tell me it is not and that you thinkt everything is great and fine.

It is great and fine... but you can't seem to tell me how it is so. You just tell me you accept it the way it is without coming with reasons why it is so great.

What has been bothering me so far with this debate is that you dismiss my complaints about FFX by basically telling me that what you do is take it the way it is and accept it. I tell you that Blitzball is broken, but you tell me it is not and that you think everything is great and fine.

It is great and fine... but you can't seem to tell me how it is so. You just tell me you accept it the way it is without coming with reasons why it is so great.

You've been the one levelling the criticisms here. I haven't merely dismissed them, I've given answers explaining why they aren't true, or if they are true, why they are not different to any typical Final Fantasy game.

If I'm wrong in those answers, address them directly.

Take the blitzball for example. You think I'm wrong and posted the original criticism. I posted a response. You posted a counter, but I have since countered that. Since then, we've gone off topic and talked about FFVIII, but no response to my rebuttals?

I posted perfectly decent reasons why blitzball (when put into context as a min game in an RPG) was not half as bad as you claimed in my last post. If you had a leg to stand on here, you'd actually respond directly to those reasons, but for some reason you're the one accusing me of dodging the issue? I made the last post-the (blitz) ball's in your court, so to speak.

SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!

DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED FINAL FANTASY X!!!




I say the Blitzball doesn't offer much control over the game. That the stats are almost useless if you are not way above those from the opponents.

The game is supposed to have you rely on them but you have to wish for luck in order to be successful with them.

That is what I call broken.

You say they had to make this random stuff happen because if they didn't it would have made the game too easy.

I say they should have thought about a better way to do it. The card mini games of FFVIII and IX were better thought of. And although chance was still part of it in some minimal ways (you had to choose good cards to counter your opponent ones, had to have the correct arrows to allow good combos or deffense, and it could be tough against an opponent if you couldn't see his deck before hand...) you still could make it if you thought about your card usage carefully.

Blitz on the other hand rely on luck foremost, then your brain comes in (when you choose how you're going to do your breakthrough or in the few occasion when you can choose your defense against an opponent attempting a breakthrough).

When I say you cannot control your characters, I don't mean you cannot move the ball carrier. I mean that you have extremely limited control over your own teamates. The way the system works doesn't give you much freedom and most of the game is played by the computer alone. This is particularly bothersome when it comes to defense. The way they designed the minigame gives you almost no control in these situations. Such as when the opponent is trying to do a breakthrough, the computer decides for you the way your defense is going to act depending on what the ball carrier is trying to do.

See it how you want, that it's just a minigame and that it excuses its shortcomings, in the end, the truth is that it was poorly designed and broken.

I've stated these facts, you haven't countered them at all.

Saying it's just a minigame doesn't refute the fact that it was poorly designed.

A step back compared to the card games, if you ask me.

And take a look at the base stats of Tidus, the so-called star player of the Zanarkand Abes. That is a Star player? All the Goers have better stats. Even some other players from other teams are better than him. Heck, even Wakka seem stronger than he is. Star Player? Don't make me laugh.

You say the flaws I point at aren't true. Yet you can't seem to offer me the definition of flaw. You gave me YOUR definition of the word. That was pretty laughable to be honest, and the mark of bad faith.

Moving on.

It is a fact that FFX in linear, and that unlike the past opus, you don't have as much liberty when it comes to the way to go. Take games like FF IX and Dragon Quest VIII for example about what I'm talking about. If the thing you have to do is go to a given temple or dungeon, in these games you could still explore the world map and attempt optional sidequests along the way in places where you won't visit for a couple more story events. In FFX, the only thing you are allowed to do if you want to take a break from the story is backtrack, and even that is prevented in some case depending where you are in the story. You even get full freedom to go wherever you want only at the end before the final part of the game (Sin). That is a major step back when compared to the others in the series. Sure, the other games in the series are also linear in that they are scripted. Yet they still offer freedom that was left out of X.

Such linearity is a huge flaw in a "RPG". I expect this kind of linearity in Stage based games like Gradius, Super Mario or the likes, but not in games like Final Fantasy, Zelda or GTA.

The Battle System is also designed in a really formulaic way. Elemental Monsters? Get Lulu and cast the opposite magic on it. Flying monsters? Wakka's ball will do the job. Strong armor? Auron is your choice... While it does give a purpose to almost every characters (Kimarhi??) this makes you play the battles like a frigin robot. It gets boring before long. Only farther in the game can you use just about any characters for any monster types.

In fact, the whole game is formulaic and doesn't even try to hide it. You walk a long path with random encounters, you get into a temple, then you walk in an other corridor, you get to an other temple, then maybe a town or a boss, then the wheel completes its turn, then everything is repeated. You can never stray from the main path. That is what I call boring. That is a huge flaw to the game (I can't stress that fact enough).
During the whole game you're told that the ultimate goal of the Summoner is to get to Zanarkand. The only major twist there is in the game in when you learn that Summoners have to sacrifice themselves in order to kill Sin. Apart from that, nothing from interest happens. And you know what? The Ultimate location IS Zanarkand. Then you got to fight Sin and Yu Yevon, the final bosses. Talk about predictability. I'm really glad I didn't know the whole game that I was going to end up fighting Necron in Memoria in FFIX. In FFX, they didn't really try to come up with a good game scenario. They created a movie story and tried to patch some gameplay around it (Funny they did the complete opposite for FF XII, but that's an other story.).

Anyways, these flaws are there. That they bother you or not is an other matter.

all of this debate- battle systems, story line, mini games, enemies, dialogue, soundtrack...

im still shocked that this trance moogle charecter didnt run to the nearest game store to get ffx after playing 1 through 9.


dude come on you baught ffx-2 first?

OH MY GOD LONG ARGUMENT IS LONG.

Sobye, don't read the blasted thing if you think it's long. No one is forcing you to. The neccesity of debate, if your original points fail to hit home, is to go into more detail and try to make the other person see your point. Hence, it's only going to get longer from here. If you don't like that, don't read it.


I say the Blitzball doesn't offer much control over the game. That the stats are almost useless if you are not way above those from the opponents.

The game is supposed to have you rely on them but you have to wish for luck in order to be successful with them.

Right, not much new here to what I dealt with the first time. Maybe I should re-phrase my argument to make my position clearer.

There is an element of luck involved in blitzball. That is true. However, the game is at least 90% skill and maybe 10% luck. If you have a better side than the opposition, nine times out of ten you will win. Stats are only slightly randomised due to the fact that if it had been down to pure stats it would have been unbelieveably predictable and ultimately not worth playing, unless you only actually play minigames for the reward and not the game itself.

Furthermore, I also assert that even with an entirely weaker side it is possible to win with a bit of tactics. If this weren't possible, you would never be able to beat the Goers the first time. Yet you can. A lot comes down to judgement in that first blitz game. If you can judge when the right time is to pass (just before a defender closes you down) you can maintain possession and work some space for your teammates to score. A certain amount of the game is still random, of course, but that only serves to add excitement.


When I say you cannot control your characters, I don't mean you cannot move the ball carrier. I mean that you have extremely limited control over your own teamates. The way the system works doesn't give you much freedom and most of the game is played by the computer alone. This is particularly bothersome when it comes to defense. The way they designed the minigame gives you almost no control in these situations. Such as when the opponent is trying to do a breakthrough, the computer decides for you the way your defense is going to act depending on what the ball carrier is trying to do.

I suppose I can see your point to an extent here, but by using Mark Mode formation it does give you control over your defenders. For example, Bickson giving you problems? Try ordering Letty and Botta to mark him.

And also, Mark mode is available from the start. Again, if you know how to do stuff in blitz, it can be done.

I agree that maybe you don't have as much freedom as you would ideally have, but I think my original counter is valid here. It's a minigame in an RPG, not a dedicated sports game. Expecting it to live up to the standards of NHL 2007 and other dedicated sports games in unrealistic. Did, for example, the beat-'em-up minigame at the Gold Saucer in FF7 have the same amount of tactical options as, say, the Tekken series? No, because it is not a dedicated sports sim. For many reasons such as developer expertise, time and budget restraints, it is irrational to expect blitz to live up to the standards of dedicated sims.


See it how you want, that it's just a minigame and that it excuses its shortcomings, in the end, the truth is that it was poorly designed and broken.

I've stated these facts, you haven't countered them at all.

Saying it's just a minigame doesn't refute the fact that it was poorly designed.

A step back compared to the card games, if you ask me.

Since it seems I'm not having much luck getting to you here by use of reason alone, I'll compare it to the card game you think it was a step back from, whilst discussing your complaints regarding blitz and showing how the same is true of the card games.

Let's discuss FF9's cardgame. This had no options whatsoever (much less than blitz) and was simply a one-size-fits-all game. Play it once, played it a million times. There was no variety. And in no way was it the equivalent of a dedicated puzzle game in terms of depth, as you seem to think blitz should be the equivalent of a dedicated sports game.

Furthermore, it relied a lot on luck with its card battles. You can't deny that. Yet luck is apparently a bad thing when it comes to blitz, but is fine and dandy if it's implemented in the card game?

Edit: I'm going to add a bit more here, as I maybe was unclear in that. Here's an example of what I'm referring to.

You can have an excellent set of cards, and be leading 8-0 going into the final round. An opponent sticks down a lousy 0P00 Zaghnol with an arrow pointing at your weakest card, which coincidentally has arrowd pointing at six of your other cards. However, your weakest card is still 1P22, so you'd expect to win the ensuing card battle. However, it is down to luck in part and you lose the game due to a flukey combo by your opponent.

At least in blitz, it requires a large amount of luck for your opponents to score even 1 goal if their players are inferior, and you can usually come back from that to win the game. That is not the case in FFIX's cards.

Moving on to FF8's cardgame. Whilst this had less luck involved, it relied more upon the quality of cards you had and not your actual level of skill at playing the game. At least in the early parts of FF8 anyway. For example. Try playing anyone in Balamb Garden as soon as you get the 7 cards from the guy near the elevator. I struggled to beat anyone with those cards, not because I was bad at the game, but because my cards were simply inferior to those of others.

However, once I got the Ifrit card, I was finding it much easier. I hadn't gotten better in myself, but was able to win purely because of one super-powerful card.

I'm not saying blitzball was perfect. Nor am I saying FFX was perfect. That's your misunderstanding here. What I am saying is that a lot of your criticisms of it are irrational based on the fact that it is a minigame and as such can only be so complicated, and as such is not going to have the ability to control multiple team mates at a time. Many dedicated games, especially soccer ones, have tried and failed to find a system of controlling multiple team mates, so to expect that of a sub game is wrong.

I am also saying that the card games in FFIX and FFVIII had no greater merit, and in many cases conformed to exactly the same criticisms you levelled at Blitzball.


And take a look at the base stats of Tidus, the so-called star player of the Zanarkand Abes. That is a Star player? All the Goers have better stats. Even some other players from other teams are better than him. Heck, even Wakka seem stronger than he is. Star Player? Don't make me laugh.

You say the flaws I point at aren't true. Yet you can't seem to offer me the definition of flaw. You gave me YOUR definition of the word. That was pretty laughable to be honest, and the mark of bad faith.

Re your first point here. Firstly, had Tidus been overpowered to the extent of being better than the Goers, it would have made the first game too easy, and no doubt you'd have been complaining about that on here saying how it wasn't enough of a challenge. Besides which, that is an entirely petty criticism of the blitz game itself, so I'm more or less happy to concede that one. If you think that makes blitzball bad, go ahead and think that.

Secondly, even though his base stats are rather poor compared to those of the Goers, he has the Jecht Shot, which pretty much destroys the Goers and equals one more or less automatic goal against any team. That makes up for his poor base stats. The emphasis was probably put on his special move rather than base stats, especially since the Jecht Shot plays a part in the story and Tidus' development.

What would be your definition of the word 'flaw'? Seeing as how you see fit to call mine laughable.


It is a fact that FFX in linear, and that unlike the past opus, you don't have as much liberty when it comes to the way to go. Take games like FF IX and Dragon Quest VIII for example about what I'm talking about. If the thing you have to do is go to a given temple or dungeon, in these games you could still explore the world map and attempt optional sidequests along the way in places where you won't visit for a couple more story events. In FFX, the only thing you are allowed to do if you want to take a break from the story is backtrack, and even that is prevented in some case depending where you are in the story. You even get full freedom to go wherever you want only at the end before the final part of the game (Sin). That is a major step back when compared to the others in the series. Sure, the other games in the series are also linear in that they are scripted. Yet they still offer freedom that was left out of X.

Such linearity is a huge flaw in a "RPG". I expect this kind of linearity in Stage based games like Gradius, Super Mario or the likes, but not in games like Final Fantasy, Zelda or GTA.


I'm not sure about this. I agree that FFX is linear for the most part of it.

But I think that your argument is slightly harsh on FFX.

FFX doesn't have the freedom of say an FFIX or an FFX-2. But it still has freedom, albeit most of it only becomes available towards the end of the game.

Take the optional areas that become available towards the end-the Remiem Temple sidequest, Omega Ruins, Baaj Temple etc, plus the Al Bhed ruins and optional areas you can search for on the Fahrenheit.

Then there's the battle arena which becomes available when you reach the Calm Lands, and the blitzball which become available after Luca. I don't know about you, but just on those two latter things, I spent hours and hours and hours.

I think you are right in criticising the game for having certain times when you can't do anything expect the main plot (eg when you can't play blitzball even)

Overall I don't think it's an issue of optional content but more about when it becomes available.

And even on FFIX there are times where you are forced to do stuff at specific times. And even on FFIX, the only widely-available sidequests are chocograph hunting and the card game. I haven't played the other game you mentioned, otherwise I would comment on that too.


The Battle System is also designed in a really formulaic way. Elemental Monsters? Get Lulu and cast the opposite magic on it. Flying monsters? Wakka's ball will do the job. Strong armor? Auron is your choice... While it does give a purpose to almost every characters (Kimarhi??) this makes you play the battles like a frigin robot. It gets boring before long. Only farther in the game can you use just about any characters for any monster types.

I can't really disagree with this. The only thing that I'll say is that it is no more flawed than the battle systems of FFXII, FFVIII and FFVII which instead make your characters merely battle avatars with the potential to have identical abilities from the start and throughout. At least FFX gave your characters specific classes for the majority of the game, thus encouraging you to use your brain somewhat.

Whilst FFIX gives you no freedom at all and makes you develop your characters within its highly rigid boundaries, in exactly the same way, every single time you play it.

There will always be things about any battle system that people like or don't like. At least in FFX it's not something abusable like getting 3000 HP by level 11, or getting the same amount of LP for beating a Lv1 monster as a Lv 50 one in FFXII.


In fact, the whole game is formulaic and doesn't even try to hide it. You walk a long path with random encounters, you get into a temple, then you walk in an other corridor, you get to an other temple, then maybe a town or a boss, then the wheel completes its turn, then everything is repeated. You can never stray from the main path. That is what I call boring. That is a huge flaw to the game (I can't stress that fact enough).


I think the point regarding lack of optional content has been answered above. You can stray from the main path, it is just a while before you are able to do so. I can only assume that since you didn't like blitzball and a lot of the other optional stuff on FFX, you are more harsh on this aspect of the game.


During the whole game you're told that the ultimate goal of the Summoner is to get to Zanarkand. The only major twist there is in the game in when you learn that Summoners have to sacrifice themselves in order to kill Sin. Apart from that, nothing from interest happens. And you know what? The Ultimate location IS Zanarkand. Then you got to fight Sin and Yu Yevon, the final bosses. Talk about predictability. I'm really glad I didn't know the whole game that I was going to end up fighting Necron in Memoria in FFIX. In FFX, they didn't really try to come up with a good game scenario. They created a movie story and tried to patch some gameplay around it (Funny they did the complete opposite for FF XII, but that's an other story.).

The focus of the game is on Tidus' character development, as as well as to a lesser extent, that of the other characters. If you'd thrown in plot twists here, there and everywhere, it would have made this forced, rushed or ill-contrived.

Besides, there are more plot twists than that. That's oversimplifying it somewhat. What about learning Seymour's motives, how he wants to use Sin to destroy Spira? Or learning the true face of Yevon, that they betray their own teachings? Those are unquestionably plot twists.

Yes, you're told that the ultimate goal of the summoner is to get to Zanarkand, but it's not like you just learn that at the beginning of the game, walk about for 90+ hours and reach Zanarkand, upon which the game suddenly gets interesting. That's what you're suggesting, but it's wrong. The fact that your destination doesn't change does not mean there is not considerable character development between the time you learn about the ultimate goal of summoners and actually getting to Zanarkand.

This pretentious, pseudo-intellectual, completely meaningless "debate" has impressed no one.

Just stop.

terabyte, you think you impress someone by calling off people like that?

As if the the goal of a debate was to impress people.

Just stop posting in threads that are pointless to you.

This pretentious, pseudo-intellectual, completely meaningless "debate" has impressed no one.

Just stop.

What Hynad said.

Really, I'm sorry if I offended you, but I honestly don't debate stuff to impress people. Generally, the reason I debate is because it's fun. Or if not that, to broaden my horizons.

Hi! Newby here, and I just wanted to share my appreciation for X; I love it so much, want to get my playstation 2 back to play it again! :) I think its over-all a more complete gaming experience, VII's good but I prefer this. :)

Welcome to the shrine.

Welcome to the shrine.

RAWR! I AM A MONSTER!

Thanks guys :)

terabyte, you think you impress someone by calling off people like that?

As if the the goal of a debate was to impress people.

Just stop posting in threads that are pointless to you.

My apologies, what I had originally written was:

"Get the fuck off the public board and into the private message system where this mental masturbation belongs."

I was just trying to be nice with the way I originally phrased the sentiment.

But you're absolutely right, I don't have to read anything if I don't want to. And I'm also right, the goal of ANY internet-forum debate is impress imaginary "internet people."

(Not only that, but engaging in lengthy internet-forum debates has been "scientifically" (anecdotally) shown to reduce your appeal to women. Just food for thought.)

I've had about enough of this thread. Have fun.

imaginary "internet people."

So everyone I talk to in the internet are figments of my imagination? That explains so much.

So in reality, by quoting and replying to you, who is actually me, I am furthering this self-destructive behaviour by alienating myself from real "non-internet people" and sinking into a downward spiral of conversations with myself, eventually reaching the point where I will become my own grandfather by sheer will alone.

Works for me. Terabyte, you are now Mental Sector 21A.

My apologies, what I had originally written was:

"Get the fuck off the public board and into the private message system where this mental masturbation belongs."

I was just trying to be nice with the way I originally phrased the sentiment.

But you're absolutely right, I don't have to read anything if I don't want to. And I'm also right, the goal of ANY internet-forum debate is impress imaginary "internet people."

(Not only that, but engaging in lengthy internet-forum debates has been "scientifically" (anecdotally) shown to reduce your appeal to women. Just food for thought.)

I've had about enough of this thread. Have fun.

Oh for love of God.

Firstly, It's an internet forum. It's made for debates and discussion. Private messaging, however, is not, as it is far more awkward to use to address one person repeatedly, and third parties cannot add something of use to the debate because they can't see whats going on. (Although, in the case, with the third party being you, that would have been an advantage)

And actually, I did offer to take the debate to PM earlier....but don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant eh?

Secondly, we are not trying to impress anyone by engaging in a debate. In truth, the only person we're trying to 'impress' is the other, therefore convincing them of our point of view.

Of course, if I thought I was wrong at any point in this debate, I would have accepted that and moved on. Which to a certain extent I did in the last post-I admitted I was maybe wrong about certain aspects of FFX. If I had been doing this only to boost my ego as you seem to think, I would not hae been in the mood to concede anything, lest it 'damage my reputation'.

Your final 'point' I find to be just the desperation of someone who knows they're probably wrong for launching an insane outburst against me and is hoping that by playing on my feelings (which they assume to conform to a certain stereotype based on the fact I post on an internet forum) they'll get me to turn round and admit I was wrong. Fortunately, I am not that insecure.

The irony of all this was that I genuinely liked you before this post, and even considered PMing you an apology after your less extreme outburst the other day.

I really hope you and Terabyte aren't about to turn this into a debate about debates because quite frankly, I don't think anyone would give two golden-colored shits and wouldn't improve life in any way.

In fairness it's not really a debate, terabyte just got very very upset and insulted me and Hynad.

And I'm not going to drag this out any longer than necessary, so hopefully we can just let it lie.

Terabyte, I feel sad for you if the only reason you come here is to impress people. Even more sad since you fail miserably to do so.



Ceidwad_yr_Arfau: You're free to PM me if you want to discuss FFX further. But I don't mind discussing it here. I just took a break from the debate for a while because I didn't have much time to take part in long discussions this week. So I stayed clear of it.

Well I'm fine with discussing it here, and I assume most of the shrine's members are OK with it, so yeah. Feel free to carry on where we left off, if you want.

Personally, I did not like this game. I found it to be pretentious, and at times, extremely overbearing. I thought the characters were annoying at best, and I really did not like the story, as it felt way too stretched. This is my personal opinion, of course, so do not feel offended. :)

Compared to FFV and FFIX, FFX just doesn't hold up on any level.

I don't really want to start a long-winded row with you Zulu as I do like you and generally agree with your comments. But I disagree on the whole with this one.

The only thing I found to be prententious or annoying about FFX was some of the voice acting. It was pretty bad, particularly Yuna-I can't really defend it to be honest. However, it was Square's first effort at voice acting. The voice acting in FFXII was much improved.

The characters weren't annoying in my opinion-some of the Yuna/Tidus scenes could be a bit cringeworthy, but then the behaviour of FFIX's characters could be equally silly also. Like Quina and Eiko's scenes-not that I didn't enjoy them, but sometimes it was a bit overkill. It would be the same kind of humour over and over again, and it did get old rather quickly.

And in general the characters in FFX developed well and, what I really liked, was that they all got more or less the same amount of attention to detail, like in FFIX. All of them develop well and have a really plausible purpose for being in the story. Unlike in FFVIII, when you sometimes wonder what purpose some of the characters serve. For example, Selphie or Quistis.

As for the story feeling 'stretched', I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate there if you want me to respond on that one, since I have no idea what you're referring to.

OK yes I know I said I would try not to make this too long-winded. But seriously, this is fairly short by my standards. :)

Oh, by the way, I haven't played any of the FF games before FFVI. So I can't really contrast with FFV.

Ceidwad, Hynad, don't listen to that fuckcunt Terabyte. I really enjoyed reading this, in fact it was the lack of these kinds of debates that made me bored and leave FFShrine in the first place. And if you had any more of this through PM, forward them to me so I can read. :)

I find it to be one of the most well polished games of all time. The story is quite easy to get into and makes sense for the most part. The characters you use all have diverse personalities and some are more "cool" than others. The combat really revolves around a whole weakness thing so you are able to use particular characters to do damage to particular monsters.

I personally give it a 9.2/10. The problems I found were that a few characters had VERY annoying voice actors (*cough* Tidus *cough*) and the game feels a bit too linear. The temples were a great addition but the game needed a side mini-game like VII without having to get to the end of the game.

in short words i love that game...^O^


don't be afraid for being different..


an other one..^O^

The combat really revolves around a whole weakness thing so you are able to use particular characters to do damage to particular monsters.

I actually liked that bit, except after a few battles you realize it's all the same thing. "oh a bird, better get Wakka. Armour, hey Auron, up front."

It became boring.

The poster above has got to be kidding, with the pictures and the cliches. Seriously, we don't need you to tell us to not be afraid for being different.

I actually liked that bit, except after a few battles you realize it's all the same thing. "oh a bird, better get Wakka. Armour, hey Auron, up front."

It became boring.

The poster above has got to be kidding, with the pictures and the cliches. Seriously, we don't need you to tell us to not be afraid for being different.

Actually, the whole 'horses for courses' thing only lasted for about half the game. Later on, you had monsters where you could use any party members, by and large. And of course, the bosses were totally different.

It was a bit idiot-proof at the start, but nowhere near as bad as the gameplay in some other FF games.

I'm not gonna discuss it at length with you, because I honestly don't remember, although I can't shake the feeling it didn't end halfway through the game, rather, it went on through most of it.

But even so, half a game with that system was still very tiresome.

FF-X is my favourite FF-game, so I would definitly say you should buy it. I like X-2 because it gives us more about Spira, but it doesn't come close to the league of X.

As for the battle system, I loved it. Then again, it was the first FF-game I played so maybe I shouldn't say too much. ;)

I'm not gonna discuss it at length with you, because I honestly don't remember, although I can't shake the feeling it didn't end halfway through the game, rather, it went on through most of it.

But even so, half a game with that system was still very tiresome.

The first area you can pretty much use any characters to beat is Bevelle. I'd say that's about halfway through. Thereafter, you rarely get the formulaic coyote=Tidus flyer=Wakka flan=Lulu shell=Auron system. To an extent, you also get it in the Calm Lands, but it's not that bad, as there are plenty of non-formulaic enemies there too. And in the last few areas, pretty much anything goes.

I think the idea of doing it early on was basically to get the gamer familiarised to the 'switch' system. I agree, it was dull as hell, but really, in most normal FF battles all you do is select Attack anyway, which is also very dull, and at least FFX tried to add an element of brain usage into the equation.

I think the idea of doing it early on was basically to get the gamer familiarised to the 'switch' system. I agree, it was dull as hell, but really, in most normal FF battles all you do is select Attack anyway, which is also very dull...

I agree. In the previous FFs, you didn't need to use all your characters; you could just have a favorite party you level up, and eventually you get one really strong party and one really weak party. In FFX, you're kind of forced to level up everybody somewhat equally, which gives the feeling that everyone's travelling on the pilgrimage together.

Except Kimahri

True, but it was still beneficial to use Kimahri to take advantage of his Blue magic/Ronso Rage abilities, some of which were extremely useful.

Kimahri was pretty awesome. I think I ended up using him more than Auron, even if he lacked Auron's high Str to begin with, but proper management of his Sphere Table quickly took care of that, and other shortcomings.

Yeah, Kimahri can be a good character, its just that you have pretty much everyone else to do the job for him.

I'll keep it quick and short. I've played almost every single Square-Enix game released in North America & Europe, and FF10 is one of the best there is. The storyline is absolutely awesome if you understand it fully. I liked it so much, I just couldn't stop until I killed Penance's ass (Even if I did do it with Zanmato, atleast I took out the ultra-hard dark aeons on the way.)

If you understand it fully?

You fail. Massively.

Anyone who didn't understand that game's simplistic plot probably has a single digit IQ. I bet you also think FFVII was a literary masterpiece or something, eh?

Sheesh. Fanboys make me lose my faith in humanity.

Have to say (without denying any of the points previously made in here lol) that is also one of my most liked games in the series, out of the ones I've played so far. Admittedly though, it is for reasons which mostly aren't unique to that game in particular.

Original message removed because my '10 missable points' was from the link between FF10 & FF10-2. So, it doesn't really count for this game alone. Bye now.

I bet I could name 10.

I dislike Prak too but I have to say: name me those 10.

What Espanha said. You're just making a fool of yourself, fella.

You're telling me you understood every point in the storyline first time through. I'm not talking about the base plot itself. There are alot of missable points.

I understood the storyline first time through also, it's not THAT difficult to catch on.



I'd rather make you feel like a prick on msn. No point asking you questions on a forum, when people can just look it up. Add me if you want to take it further.

Lol Coward.

Prak, are you fucking kidding me? You're telling me you understood every point in the storyline first time through. I'm not talking about the base plot itself. There are alot of missable points. I bet I could name 10. .

Why don't you just say your ten points instead of whining? It may turn interesting

Why don't you just say your ten points? It may turn interesting

x 2

Is my forum reputation now that of a liar? Ohh nooo, what am I to do..? People on this forum are not thinking...I am smart!? This is too much for me right this moment...

We believe in public humiliation. If you insist on not doing it on the forums, come into chat.

Good game. It was silly buying the sequel before the original game. Buy it, play it, and then replay FFX-2. You'll understand the story alot better that way.

This is a thread dedicated to FFX. You posted your opinion, someone disagreed with you. That's how debates are conducted. Instead of feeling all outraged at Prak, you should've posted as to why you disagree with him.

Furthermore, why go into chat or msn when this is a perfectly acceptable place to hold said discussion?

But ok, let's take Prak out of the equation. I specifically asked you to name me 10 things that one would not understand about the storyline in X. Mind you, I didn't ask this out of the blue, you said you could name them.

I'm still waiting, and no, I won't go into chat or add you to msn when I've asked the question here and am waiting for the reply here.

10 missable points about Final Fantasy X. Go.

I'm actually waiting too! ;)

Me too :p

Somehow though I have my doubts that he's going to come back. :(

Oh he will be back, to come up with more reasons to avoid questions he has no answers to.

I liked Final Fantasy X, it actually truly being the first Final Fantasy game for me to ever play. I heard about it from Kingdom Hearts (tells you how much I pay attention anywhere) and I loved it.

I got a bit mad at the Blitzball mini-game at first, but then I got really good, and made it to where noone could ever beat me on it.

Wakka's World Tournament blitzball was a piece of cake to obtain.

The fact that FFX was not a ATB gauge based RPG was not really a shock for me until I played VII, VIII, and IX.

I loved most of the storyline, and I found it even more to my liking, considering I found my Final Fantasy idol, Auron. ^_^

Also, I love comedy, and romance. This game had both. Get it. xD

Could it be that all those 10 missable points in FF X are actually... missing from the game?

Could it be that all those 10 missable points in FF X are actually... missing from the game?

hahaha

Could it be that all those 10 missable points in FF X are actually... missing from the game?

You're quite right.

Hey, asshole:


10 missable points about Final Fantasy X. Go.

Not a smart thing to say when I confirmed Hynad's comment, asshole.

What do I care what you've confirmed? Seriously, what do I care? You shot off your mouth then didn't back it up. You still haven't. In fact, you only said something because Hynad threw you a lifeline. Nevertheless, we are stil waiting for those 10 points you are failing to enumerate.

lol, I don't believe this. I shot off my mouth, and couldn't back it up. And I accepted that I couldn't back it up. Now what? I think you failed to realize what I confirmed. Just incase you throw another half-assed comment at me; I'll clarify for you: Hynad was making fun of me, but really, what he said was correct, which by the way, was actually saying I haven't got 10 missable points. That is what I confirmed. Yes, I threw empty arguments at Prak, and again, I'll say: Now what?

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize someone would be so stupid as to bullshit his way into our hearts. Completely my bad.

Now what? Probably nothing. We'll keep thinking you're a complete dipshit and you'll keep on pretending you don't care. But hey, you're a guy who tries to win his arguments by making crap up, so you'll be fine.

lol

Oh he will be back, to come up with more reasons to avoid questions he has no answers to.

Indeed, it seems you're right.

Well, Trance Moogle, I hope you bought the game.

I would like to say that anyone who thinks this game isn't worth the gum on the bottom on their shoe is ridiculous. Final Fantasy X is probably the best FF game I've played so far.

It was one of the first games I got for my PS2 (besides ICO and Dark Cloud) that really got me into gaming.

FFX was the first of the series I've played fully. It's beautiful and stunning to watch. The storyline is similar to that of a soap opera, but one I wouldn't be ashamed to admit I watched.

I can't even say I was disappointed with the ending, which is something I hear a lot. I'm not the crying type, but I was literally bawling after Tidus was sent. My cousins thought my cat had died when they heard me in my room. And even if you didn't enjoy the ending, did the music not pull at your heartstrings (esp. Suteki da Ne, Ending Theme or even To Zanarkand)?

As for FFX-2, I hated it at first. I felt it was an abomination and shouldn't have made it to the shelves. It had an absurd Charlie's Angels Girl Power thing that was annoying as hell. It won me over after a while.

But in no way, shape or form do I think it's better than FFX. In X-2 there were so many potentials for the storyline I felt like tearing my hair out. The music was beneath anything I've heard in the FF series. I'd rather listen to Coheed and Cambria all day.

I will say there were some annoying things about X, like Tidus' voice for example, but that certainly doesn't merit not trying to play it. Especially since the person who started this played X-2 instead.

Since I probably won't play another video game ever, I could say I'd die happy after I've played FFX.

If that doesn't sway you, Trance Moogle, then maybe that fact that it’s less than twenty bucks at Best Buy should.

I forgot to add that if this makes me sound like a fanboy.... er fangirl, then so be it.

Indeed, it seems you're right.

I looked into the futurez.