When does it get interesting?

lol... how about never?

LOL. Depends on your definition of interesting. Where are you at in the game?

It gets intresting as in plot twist shortly after Raithwall. At least that is what I think Opnions may vary.

yea in my opinion the story get interesting a little bit after the tomb of raithwall and its lots of fun from there on

I thought it didn't get at all interesting until after Giruvegan.

To me, the time I thought it started to get really interesting was right around the events in and during the time of the visit to Mt. Bur-Omisace.

I thought the story was good, but lacking. There's a lot of conversations in the game. But most of them aren't in relation to the storyline. And there's almost no interactions between our party characters. My only complain about the game would be that the balance between gameplay and story was off. There was HOURS of gameplay (heck, my game is now mostly complete, and my clock is at 182 hours!!!) but barely an hour worth of storyline. FFX was better balanced, with more cut-scenes and character interactions.

But I think the plot we have in FFXII is still good. They just didnt elaborate enough on it. A straight forward "Returners VS the evil Empire" sommary.

Eh No Hynad try again. The basic is not Returners Vs Empire it was Man's fate, destiny, and choices is the basic plot. The undying where Man's fate same goes for Ashe and her problem of Power for the people or revenge, Destiny is Balither and his attempts to tharwt and control it, and choices is Gabranth Vaan and Basch. The plot appears simpile to alot of people on First glance espically all the political movings that are an integeral part of it so they get missed alot. As for the Converstations straight off yes they don't link but the themes and questions through out them all link heavily to the plot. Ashe and Vaan's talk at Jahara for example and what Vaan is really doing with his feelings help Ashe shape her decsion in the Pharos. It is a cascade plot or tile plot not everything makes sense viewed as a piece but as a whole it forms the pattern. I am finding this out and how much is OH that makes sense on my second play through it really is a game where you need to play it 2 times or more to get all of the plot. As for the plot time try nearly 30 the long distance and Sidequest is what makes people reach 100 or more hours.

Hey what's your problem saying my opinion is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Grow up a bit.

The plot is not 30 hours at all. You're confusing fillers with the plot. The Mark Hunting sidequest adds nothing more to the plot. Only some NPC's interactions. It doesn't push the story forward in any ways. Talking to NPCs, although adding some life to Ivalice doesn't push the story forwards either. It's important to have these to fully enjoy the game's world and its setting, but it's only filler. You tell me that it's not a "Returner's against the Empire" story" by pointing some themes that were used. I don't care what emotions you came up with. The fact is that the story is about a Princess who wants to free her people. Whatever emotions they carry won't change that fact.

At least the character designs were cool ^_^

Yeah i agree the characters were cool, i liked them alot more compared to X and any other ff, even if their backgrounds/emotions/partnerships or whatever else you can think of was'nt explored as much.

To play the game just for the story, from start to finish could be done in 30-40 hours depending what characters you level up, anymore hours after is mainly through sidequest's hunts and stuff, or if your playing through the first time. And you do need to play through at least twice to see things you miss the first time.

I thought the story was ok, it got interesting for me just before golmore jungle when larsa is in the party, and you see the cutscene with gabranth.

But the Returners vs Empire wasn't about a princess facing the empire at all. It was the supressed people rising up in outrage to overthrow the empire. The only royalty you have is Sabin, and Edgar no Princess at all.
But there really isn't all that much fillers just hints of whats to come. Lets take for instance the Chocobo scene after the Rouge tomato hunt. It shows the way people have to deal with Archadia before Vayne came with a turned check and bribes how their simiple dreams our trampled in the rare flower being trampled a classic Pyschology example. There are very little Fillers as you call them each has a place or symbol to them. The only places I will call Fillers are some of the none Voice acted areas such as the Gariff War-chief when you leave, all the voice acted ones have a place in the Tile plot design.
-Spolier-
Most of the Dialouges have Symbology so integrated in them they only make sense in their second play. An example of this when the King is slain and Reks is lying there we see Basch on his knees before Vayne but we don't see his head move when his Supposed voice comes and if you have played till Gabranth then you will recognize his voice easily. And if you have played till the end you will see just how cunning Vayne is since at the start of the game you are given a very different view of him then he really is.

Emotions that you carry through the game doesn't change the game's events, only your appreciation of it. How much you found it deep and philosophical is up to you, and you alone. Many people here will come out with something different. Don't pretend to hold the truth. Get off your high horse for a moment. You're trying to make a bible out of this game. And you're throwing semantic at me with this whole "Returners against the empire". During the game it is clearly stated that the resistance is going against the empire, led by the Marquis. It is stated during the whole game that the princess wants to free Dalmasca. Now the only thing you can come up is symbols... wow. Of course, they add to the general enjoyment of the game, help you get connected to its world. But to say they move the story forward?? No, they only add some psychology to these characters lacking any deep backstory. Nothing is elaborated. We only get bits of these symbols, and the story can be summarized on half a page.


And just so you know, you're not the only one who did the game twice. Try a third game and come back.

Truth is, you only shoot at me some minor directorial details they used to tell the story. But you can't come up with any concrete stuff about what the story is. You tell me about all those emotions you carried through the game, but can't talk about the story itself. From start to finish, the story is about a country that lost its freedom and wants it back, and their princess, who everyone except the Marquis thought was dead, will do everything to accomplish that (oh yeah, she feel a lot of different things in the process). And of course, the developers show us how the NPCs react to the new consul. LOL, it's a RPG world. They would be dumb if they didn't make their NPCs act according to that.

I thought the game got interesting enough for me to finish after visiting Arcadia.

The reason why I don't bring up some of the deep stuff beyond the basics is I don't want to spoil for those who haven't played it very long like the author of this thread seems to be.

Beyond the Second play through it matters not how many times I have played since with near photographic if horribly misspelled I only need the second time to find the hidden quirks. And No I don't know why I misspell as bad as I sometimes do I have done it since I was a kid and I could never correct it no matter how much I try probably a side effect of being partially deaf I don't hear nor speak some words right because of it as is so it could be a side effect who knows.

Spoliers BIG TIME

Alright the game real focus is not about the rebellion like you seem to think Hynad. If it was why would we hear Second hand the start of war after Pharos from Al-Cid why not be there to see everything start to finish? Also the same goes for Mt-bur-omasice it was a major Power gathering for Vayne to have in his hand the only other Son of house Solidor who has the potential to become Emperor. It put into check any chance to remove the Power Vayne gathered after he killed his father we got to see none of that from Vayne destroying the council to transforming the Democracy that was Archadia into a Monarchy to the intial confrotation between brothers. We didn't see the opening of the Rebellion as described by Al-cid of an Airship attacking Archadian forces.What about when Larsa learns of Draces death it is plain she cares for Larsa and was there for him yet we hear it not at all. We don't see these events because the Rebellion was not the focus only the mover and background to the Events.
What we did see was the truth of the Gods and source of the Nethicite the Undying and their control of history and shaping of Man's movements through time. We learn how Raithwall came to power, how the Undying have been apart of time, the reasons behhind Archadian agression, the mystrey of Nabdius. In short the Focus was on how Man's fate was in the Hands of another and the secert back plays to wretch it back into Man's hands. We focus on Ashe and her moral dilemna not because its mine or anyone elses feelings but because it plays a part in the whole scheme the Linchpin if you will. If Ashe had choosen to become a New Dynast-Queen the Events of Pharos would have a different outcome and ending. The Ashe at the start of the Game would never have even hesitated at the chance to gain back Dalmasca no matter the means. But her will thoughts and feelings are all shaped by those 'Fillers' maybe not always in big ways but sometimes small as well An example would be before golmore Jungle Ashe watches Vaan Larsa and Penelo joke around despite that as Orphans who have lost nearly everything to the Empire and should hate Larsa the very symbol of the Empire as a son of the emperor. She connects with Balither a former Judge the Symbol of Unfair justice in FFXII and listens to why he forsaked everything for freedom. She meets a Judge Magister who gave up all his titles out of gulit for using the very power she sought. She begins to see the world is not made of Dalmsaca, Archadia, the other empire whose name I can't spell for the life of me, and Nabudis but rather just people with hopes, dreams, Regerts, and Desires. All of this brings to key aganist what the Undying say which is They control History and time Man is unworthy the truth is Man worthy or not worthy has always controled his own destiny and History no other. This is solidifyied by Vayne's question in the Sky fortress about who Ashe is tool of the undying or something else and she responds I am Myself nothing less in the gist of it.

So I will reillirate if the Rebellion was the focus and main point of the Game we would have seen more of the Rebellions moves and heard more of Archadian response then we did. What we saw was the Breaking of the Age of stones and the events that lead up to it. Everything was a Cascade plot to bulid and shape the characters from desperate fugitives into the Key players all has its place and all has its meaning in the final plot. The Flowers of change stayed the Blade of the would-be Tyrant.

To put the Fate of Man Back into the Hands of Men to destroy this so called Age of stones

****SPOILERS AHEAD FOR ANYONE WHO HAVENT FINISHED THE GAME********
That's a nice way to complicate things. But you did say the main line of my thought about the game's story.

It's about how the people of FFXII's world want to be free. Free of the Empire. and yes, as you pointed out, although really poorly done in the game, free of the god's hands.

The directing was well done, but most of the game's plot points werent elaborated much.


What we did see was the truth of the Gods and source of the Nethicite the Undying and their control of history and shaping of Man's movements through time.

We saw the truth of the Gods? Yeah, it was barely mentioned, but never in the game did we see anything that showed how the gods were controlling history. It was only mentioned and never elaborated.

If the focus wasn't the rebellion, then why do you think every character are going against the empire and the gods... seems an awful lot like a rebellion to me.

I didn't say Rebellion wasn't the Main theme just not Returners vs Empire like you said. As for the Gods they are the Ones in Giruvegan the Occurina or however it is spelled the ones who gave Raithwall the Sword of kings and Ashe the treaty Blade, Venat who gave Man artifacl Nethicite those Undying. As for in Game control yes we did the Image of Rasler Ashe kept on seeing was the Undying's way of control giving only a select few the Powers of Nethicite like Raithwall to be directed as they saw fit their whole spiel when you meet them in Giruvegan smacked of them trying and succeding in some fashion of control through their Puppet Raithwall. The reason why the Undying was Pissed at Venat was because he gave man the power of the stones which they say is theirs and theirs alone to give and take away.

As for being free of the Empire most of the reason why a good chunk of the Rebellion took up power was in response to Events in game that threatened them. Most of the Rebels where Knights of Dalmasca and Bhujerba citzens supporuted by Ondor when we meet Vaan. It was when Vayne took Power and the other empire geared for war that the Rebellion stepped up and then to act as a buffer between Empires to Prevent Dalmasca from being the Battleground for the Empires which they Failed in.

So while yes there was Rebellion the theme was not to overthrow the Empire but rather the Undyings Yoke on history. The War and Rebellion got stirred from the Lukewarm state to a Full Steam by the evnts to throw off said Yoke.

I know who the gods in the games are. Your examples clearly show what I call "barely touched and elaborated".

Most of the story was said in bits and never fully elaborated. You clearly have you opinion on the game, and I have mine, and although you think yours is better, for god knows which reason, I don't think you have the right to tell me my opinion of the game is wrong. Especially since all you do is point to some emotions the characters were carrying, while I say the story was lacking. Think whatever you want, I still think the story was boring at first, then the second half of it is ok, but never managed to shine the way they usually do in other FFs. And although you might like all the little symbolisms and subtleties in it, they were only serving to fill the story with emotions to try to divert the players for it's lack of events.

Not really if you read the Monoster lists for the Espers as well as some of the Elements give clues that the gods they talk about are the Undying. It is subtle but there like with the Garif the Gods gave them Power then took it away from them because they didn't know how to use it. Pretty much every time a List or Legend says God replace it with Undying and you begin to see a logical pattern that fits their heavy handed ways. I figured that out on My first play through when I got Ultima in the Great cyrstal and was asking myself 'Why was she there?' then a little part of me said maybe the gods she rebelled aganist where the Undying and it was an OH moment that made a lot of things make sense. So little talky lot of ready as a friend of mine once joked on philosphy class.

And good Night I have one more thread to possibly post in then Bed calls.

Yeah, read the bestiary... It's filled with history lessons and such. Great. But did they put it in the actual flow of event? Nope. The espers barelly serve a purpose in the game's story. While I enjoyed all the little details they've put in the bestiary, most of them weren't really connected with the main plot. That's one of the thing I call "fillers". Was it really difficult for them to show us some footage from the past? Or some clear example of the Gods doing? They show us the Undying in the last quarter of the game and only for a short time, and then, nothing. We see Venat on some more occasions, but nothing is really elaborated. Everything is rushed.

One thing too I didn't like about it's story, Except for some rare occasions like at the phon coast, there's barely any character interactions. They clearly put the gameplay forward and the story took a backstep in this game.
There's less story driven dialogs than in any other post SNES FFs.

Clearly, the story, while having some good themes, was lacking and felt rushed. During the whole game, I was wondering when it would get interesting. And it barely did near the end of it. But it was too late.

A classic story about rebelion, but nothing we never saw before.

But at least, the directing is the best the series has ever had.

The story is good. Great characters make it all worthwhile, and there enough cutscenes for XII. X had too many, too many FMV's even.

IMO, yes, this is probably one of the better stories I've come across since playing VI. Well, it's better then most FF's I've come across. The characters worked well as a team, their was interaction - people obviously interpret things differently.

It's certainly proving to be more interesting then your generic LETS DESTROY THE WORLD PLOTS.

Feel free to comment on my post, just don't drag me into any arguements just yet. I haven't played the game, but I pretty much know the whole plot.

Intresting Judge I would have thought you had played the game from your post so that is a bit of a shock.

Hynad I think you are wrong but it is clear this is something we are going to have to agree to Disagree on because I think neither of us is moving on our issue and I really don't like getting dragged into Post wars for long time takes away my enjoyment of the discussion.

That's my point. You don't have the right to say I'm wrong. I'm not. I just don't see the game like you do. You came out of it with some appreciations based on some details. I take the game in a different way, and think it was lacking. How can you say I'm wrong? Because I don't think like you do?

Do I sense fascism?

No you don't. Hynad this is a DEBATE thread you say an opnion I will counter it thats how it goes.

Fascism would be me saying you don't understand nothing and then spouting off semi-religous jargon with a look at you like you are a complete NIMROD.

Did I do that NO. I had a logical debate saw point for point tic for tac on each point. Only the fact that you are not going to even try to SEE a different view on the game is the reason why I am stopping it. If you had said yes I see your point but I think it is wrong I would have accepted that but no that is not how you responded. And quite frankly I don't care at this point since the goal of this thread was completed. The author asked when does it get intresting and from our debate they are assured that it gets intresting so whatever your view or mine is impartial and mute now since the goal is done.

Call me whatever you like I assure I have been called worse and some of them are even true. Good day gentlemen may your enemies Gore run down your blade and may a Virigin lift her skirt for you. Ta Ta.

I just got the fire spirit summon. Seems like there isn't going to be a plot where I get to save the world. =/

That Ultimite goal isn't to destroy the world but rule it in this one. So no saving the world this time though you do save Rabanastre.

Well, yes and no, Gandalf. I can tell you now that world-destruction, for a change, is not the objective of the main villain of this game. Also, if you just got the fire-spirit summon (the esper Belias, I assume you mean) you really aren't all that far in the game yet at all.