http://ps2.ign.com/articles/749/749071p1.html

I believe IGN does a top 25 list every year, but here's the 2006 volume. Post your rants about what franchises aren't on there, which ones are, etc. I already know that Final Fantasy is going to end up #1.

Donkey Kong shouldn't be on there.

Based on consistency I would hold #1 for Mario, #2 for Zelda, and #3 for Final Fantasy.

cool. we can take our time discussing each set slowly. there'd be way more ranting if we got the list after it was completed.


so.....yah.. noting special here. dun know what to talk about....bleh

The list is already ridiculous. As D.A.N. said, Donkey Kong doesn't belong on the list since most of those games have retarded designs that try to trick you into thinking they have depth and replay value by making you play levels more than once just to gather enough fucking bananas to move on. Also, Half-Life is possibly the most influential shooter ever made, so putting it that high up the list is almost criminal.

TETRIS FTW!

The list is already ridiculous. As D.A.N. said, Donkey Kong doesn't belong on the list since most of those games have retarded designs that try to trick you into thinking they have depth and replay value by making you play levels more than once just to gather enough fucking bananas to move on. Also, Half-Life is possibly the most influential shooter ever made, so putting it that high up the list is almost criminal.


don' you mean that "low" on the list?

also. i thought the same thing. but i assumed maybe they were using a certain type of "criteria" to make their descicions. one being maybe having the most games made after it. technically it has like...3 or 4 with the episodes. while something like...mario which better be number 1 or something has like...80? (yes i made that number up)

but then when you see tetris there... tetris has had a lot of clones made of itself as well. like tetris worlds (which sucks) and who knows what else.

and regarding your dk comment. no WONDER i have trouble going back to dk64 and trying for a perfect game. >.< arg! lol

No, the list is counting down, so it's high on the list.

yah. exactly. it starts from 25, so if you were to re-arrange the list correctly starting from 1 on top.....nvm. :p





btw...wtf? chrono trigger? man i totally wouldn't even call that a franchise!! arg. (yes. greatest game of all time yes i know i played it...that has nothing to do with it. isn't this a FRANCHISE LIST!!?)

and omg pokemon should be like fucking 3rd place!

Oh I was about to post tetris beat DK LOL, wait that must be a lie Virtua fighter is pure garbage.

-

Chrono series is hardly a franchise.

Also, Ultimadream, Virtua Fighter 4 is one of the best fighting games out there so nyeh, and the series as a whole is much better than MK.

Street Fighter, hoo-ray.

The first major gripe I found was that Pokemon is that 'high' on the list. For a series that has been around for 10+ years now and has had incredible success with game after game after game and what have you, it's surprising to see the series not at least in the top 10.

I swear, if Halo reaches the top 5, I'll puke. Heck, even top 10 is disgusting.

Apparently sports and civil disobedience retain more profits than healthy moralism.

It's all those greedy suburbans and unregulated immigrants wrecking the curve..

Yeah, I bet Halo is in the top 10.

It makes me sick but there is nothing I can do.

Actually, I don't know because Halo has not been around as long as most of the series that are appearing on this list. I guess we will find out tomorrow?

Super mario, zelda and final fantasy are probably in the top 10. Meybe metal gear too.

I'd put Suikoden at number one, but I'm guessing it won't be on there.

Guessing.

As much as I like Tekken, if it's closer to #1 than SF, then there's serious problems. Tekken, MK, and Virtua Fighter exist because of SF.

Anyway, my top five:

1: Mario
2: Zelda
3: Castlevania
4: FF
5: Metroid

The only 3 I need to see in the top five are Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Zelda. Something tells me mario might skip the top 5 though. Admittedly, mario has been amazingly popular, but it lacks the insane depth of other franchises.

As painful as it feels, Halo probably will make the top five because of it's popularily.

It would be neat if franchises like Marvel or Katamari Damacy found their ways onto the list, but that's about as likely as seeing Rayman in the top 5.

Very likely Tomb Raider'll be in the top ten, however.

Just so long as Tony Hawk doesnt worm his way into there somehow, it'll be alright.

A game should not be considered a series until it has at least three, at least. But of course, Halo is going to make it in there, only having two games. I might put Castlevania in my top 3 due to the excellent handheld game after handheld game that Konami keeps spitting out over the last several years.

I might put Castlevania in my top 3 due to the excellent handheld game after handheld game that Konami keeps spitting out over the last several years.

I agree. Castelvania for GBA was awesome ( I can't remember the name of the one I had though). When (if) I get my GBA back from Ireland, I'll look into buying all of them. How many where there, and what were they all called?

Dead or Alive, Soul Blade/Calibur, Tekken, The Legend Of Zelda and Final Fantasy, should all definately be in there.

I agree. Castelvania for GBA was awesome ( I can't remember the name of the one I had though). When (if) I get my GBA back from Ireland, I'll look into buying all of them. How many where there, and what were they all called?

Dead or Alive, Soul Blade/Calibur, Tekken, The Legend Of Zelda and Final Fantasy, should all definately be in there.
Well the two for GBA that I was mainly talking about were Harmony of Dissonance, and Aria of Sorrow. Not sure if there are other GBA ones, but I don't think so. And heck, you might as well trade in your GBA for a DS Lite, so you can play the two Castlevania games for it because they are just as super.

Well the two for GBA that I was mainly talking about were Harmony of Dissonance, and Aria of Sorrow. Not sure if there are other GBA ones, but I don't think so. And heck, you might as well trade in your GBA for a DS Lite, so you can play the two Castlevania games for it because they are just as super.

Circle of the moon was a GBA launch title, and it was phenomenal.

The only 3 I need to see in the top five are Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Zelda. Something tells me mario might skip the top 5 though. Admittedly, mario has been amazingly popular, but it lacks the insane depth of other franchises.

You might have a point, if it weren't for the minor fact that there wouldn't be a gaming industry as we know it without Mario. That trumps any argument, and when you also consider that the vast majority of Mario games have been ace, you should have a lock for #1. But when it comes to games, reason rarely prevails...

This ranking system is complete rubbish. After Sonic went 3D, they've been making pure shit ever since. How is Half Life only 24th place?

they put the sims over pokemon? ...WTF!!!!


dungeons and dragons? isn't there like only 1 fucking game for that shit? the original board/card game doesn't fucking count!

and putting sf up there doens't even help make this list seem anymore credible. they fucked up with pokemon, and i doubt theres any way to make up for that.

Tact, haven't you ever heard of Baldur's Gate (1 and 2), Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2), Planescape: Torment, and so forth? There are a ton of exceptionally good D&D games, one of which completely revolutionized electronic RPGs (Baldur's Gate), as well as another one that is widely considered to be the best electronic RPG ever made (Baldur's Gate 2).

1-5 were no surprise.

Tact, haven't you ever heard of Baldur's Gate (1 and 2), Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2), Planescape: Torment, and so forth? There are a ton of exceptionally good D&D games, one of which completely revolutionized electronic RPGs (Baldur's Gate), as well as another one that is widely considered to be the best electronic RPG ever made (Baldur's Gate 2).

oh. i didn't know that. i was mostly thinking about this

http://www.ddo.com/

my bad. :p

i dind't know neverwinter nights was a d&d game. i freaking d/led that long ago. still haven't played it. :p

I really agree with that last. They're all right around the spot were I would put them. Also, I love the picture for "Warcraft" :P

Resident Evil and Final Fantasy are well placed. Metal Gear Solid should be placed a little higher (I'd put it at 10 or 11) and I would of moved the D&D games, Sonic and Star Wars down a touch.

Why was Silent Hill not on the list? That is an oversight.

Why was Silent Hill not on the list? That is an oversight.

RE literally created the genre it belongs to, so RE > Silent Hill, at least as far as "franchises" go. I've yet to play RE4 though--I hope to be able to talk my wife into getting it eventually.

All in all, the list wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. Their logic seemed to be pretty consistent, in that the "original" series was listed over (or instead of) franchises that came after, even if there are better games in the second franchise. They did that with Street Fighter, RE, and Mario. For once, I'm not shaking my head at the stupidity of the video game media.

they put the sims over pokemon? ...WTF!!!!

Agreeing. Pokemon, despite how annoying it is now, was quite a contagious phenomenon within such a small time of existence, that it attained eminence to the second-best franchise of money generated. Preceded only by the Mario series. The popularity of Pokemon was just overwhelming.

Oh, and I find it silly that they put Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, when Super Mario Bros. III clearly had more financial success and by far, is more memorable.

I don't think Donkey Kong or Star Wars deserve to be listed.

I also think we could of seen other series listed, had they maintained consistency, too. Earthworm Jim, for example.

Ignore.

Mario is #1?! you've gotta be kidding me.

It was a pretty good list, even though I disagreed with some things.

Mario is #1?! you've gotta be kidding me.
Uh, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Mario being #1. In fact, I'd be upset if it was anything but.

RE literally created the genre it belongs to, so RE > Silent Hill, at least as far as "franchises" go. I've yet to play RE4 though--I hope to be able to talk my wife into getting it eventually.

All in all, the list wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. Their logic seemed to be pretty consistent, in that the "original" series was listed over (or instead of) franchises that came after, even if there are better games in the second franchise. They did that with Street Fighter, RE, and Mario. For once, I'm not shaking my head at the stupidity of the video game media.

RE4 is a great game. Its something that should be experienced by all gamers. Im not even a huge RE fan, but RE4 is fuc**** awesome.

I personally think that was a fitting top 5.

How the fuck is a shit series like RE before metroid. RE 4 was the only really good RE

This ranking system is complete rubbish. After Sonic went 3D, they've been making pure shit ever since.

sonic adventures were <3


Tact, haven't you ever heard of Baldur's Gate (1 and 2), Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2), Planescape: Torment, and so forth? There are a ton of exceptionally good D&D games, one of which completely revolutionized electronic RPGs (Baldur's Gate), as well as another one that is widely considered to be the best electronic RPG ever made (Baldur's Gate 2).

a franchise is about branding. none of those games were branded D&D. in fact, my guess is they would've been less popular if they were. them being based on the same mechanics is something else entirely. is every game that uses the unreal engine a part of the unreal franchise?

RE literally created the genre it belongs to, so RE > Silent Hill, at least as far as "franchises" go. I've yet to play RE4 though--I hope to be able to talk my wife into getting it eventually.

I love the Resident Evil series, always have, and I do think that not only does it deserve its spot in the top ten... but that it is also better then Silent Hill overall.

That said, I do think Silent Hill could of got a mention up in the twenties, because it really did devote itself to a small niche in the survival horror genre that no other game ever explored. And lets be honest, Resident Evil 4's new camera/shooting mechanic borrows heavily from Silent Hill's. It definetly deserved a spot up there, for Silent Hill 2 alone if nothing else.


RE4 is a great game. Its something that should be experienced by all gamers. Im not even a huge RE fan, but RE4 is fuc**** awesome.

No arguments. Its the pinnacle game in the series thus far and it deserves all the credit its received. But from the point of view of the series overall, it was a huge deviation from the main story line in many ways. Its sad that the Resident Evil game everybody loves and looks up to is the one that has the least to do with the incident that gave birth to the series.


a franchise is about branding. none of those games were branded D&D. in fact, my guess is they would've been less popular if they were. them being based on the same mechanics is something else entirely. is every game that uses the unreal engine a part of the unreal franchise?

Ok so those games were more a genre then a franchise. Is it that big of a deal? Grouping those games in such a way was probably the only way they could acknowledge how good they all were. I'd rather they lax the criteria a little bit then ignore them all-together.

sonic adventures were <3

The Dreamcast had already taken a nose dive into the ground before i got a hold of that one.

RE literally created the genre it belongs to, so RE > Silent Hill, at least as far as "franchises" go. I've yet to play RE4 though--I hope to be able to talk my wife into getting it eventually.



No arguments that RE did create the term "survivar horror". But on the other hand, SH recreate the term. SH and RE may belong to the same category but they have many differences. With RE to be mostly a survivar horror action game, SH concetrates on the fear for the uknown much more than RE, and not on the fights. It deserves to be in the list.

No arguments. Its the pinnacle game in the series thus far and it deserves all the credit its received. But from the point of view of the series overall, it was a huge deviation from the main story line in many ways. Its sad that the Resident Evil game everybody loves and looks up to is the one that has the least to do with the incident that gave birth to the series.

If Im not mistaken, after RE2, Leon did leave america. I understand what you mean though. I think the departure did the series some good.

a franchise is about branding. none of those games were branded D&D. in fact, my guess is they would've been less popular if they were. them being based on the same mechanics is something else entirely. is every game that uses the unreal engine a part of the unreal franchise?

Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights were both branded Forgotten Realms, which is the Dungeons & Dragons subset that the worlds were based off; the manuals also frequently reference the D&D manuals. They may not have been as blatantly obvious as DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE, and DUNGEONS & DRAGONS TACTICS (a game that looks pretty neat for the PSP), but they were branded.

As for the Unreal comparison, it's different; Forgotten Realms was around before the games, and was a 'Dungeons & Dragons' creation, just like Middle-Earth is a Lord of the Rings thing. Gears of War may use the Unreal Engine, but it doesn't take place in the Unreal world.

On a completely different note, all of BioWare's best stuff is either Star Wars or an original IP. I just downloaded the X06 trailer for Mass Effect, and it looks neat (even if the graphics are a little jumpy at the moment).

If Im not mistaken, after RE2, Leon did leave america. I understand what you mean though. I think the departure did the series some good.

Well... Claire leaves the United States to go and hunt down her brother, who is trying to take down Umbrella by digging up some dirt. We find that out officially in Code Veronica. As far as Leon is concerned, I don't think he actually does. He makes an appearance in Resident Evil Gaiden on-board the ship on which the game takes place, but that game is not acknowledged as being part of the official story (because if it were, the Leon Kennedy that appeared in Resident Evil 4 would of been a viral mutation of the infamous T-Virus).

As far as I know the only mention of Leon Kennedy ever leaving the U.S. officially was when he was sent out in Resident Evil 4. Up until then there are only ever signs that he was looking after Sherry or helping Claire out.

Anyone know if Leon will be in RE 5?

Well... Claire leaves the United States to go and hunt down her brother, who is trying to take down Umbrella by digging up some dirt. We find that out officially in Code Veronica. As far as Leon is concerned, I don't think he actually does. He makes an appearance in Resident Evil Gaiden on-board the ship on which the game takes place, but that game is not acknowledged as being part of the official story (because if it were, the Leon Kennedy that appeared in Resident Evil 4 would of been a viral mutation of the infamous T-Virus).

As far as I know the only mention of Leon Kennedy ever leaving the U.S. officially was when he was sent out in Resident Evil 4. Up until then there are only ever signs that he was looking after Sherry or helping Claire out.

Oh oK i know someone went to europe lol. I got the 2 mixed up, sorry

Man, I haven't played RE since I was around 8 years old. I have only played the very first one and some of Code Veronica.

Do they sell any complete sets of the series?

Ok so those games were more a genre then a franchise. Is it that big of a deal? Grouping those games in such a way was probably the only way they could acknowledge how good they all were. I'd rather they lax the criteria a little bit then ignore them all-together.

you're more than welcome to go on about how great that genre of games are. but that's different from asserting they belong on a list of the best franchises.


Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights were both branded Forgotten Realms, which is the Dungeons & Dragons subset that the worlds were based off; the manuals also frequently reference the D&D manuals. They may not have been as blatantly obvious as DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE, and DUNGEONS & DRAGONS TACTICS (a game that looks pretty neat for the PSP), but they were branded.

As for the Unreal comparison, it's different; Forgotten Realms was around before the games, and was a 'Dungeons & Dragons' creation, just like Middle-Earth is a Lord of the Rings thing. Gears of War may use the Unreal Engine, but it doesn't take place in the Unreal world.

On a completely different note, all of BioWare's best stuff is either Star Wars or an original IP. I just downloaded the X06 trailer for Mass Effect, and it looks neat (even if the graphics are a little jumpy at the moment).

they're not related in the way the rest of these franchises are, that was my point; that's why I'm saying they don't belong on this list-- regardless of how good they may or may not be as a "series."

it's a distant stretch. including small elements of other games, whether they're characters, references, or a loosely related world, is rather silly when you're talking about the best franchises. most people wouldn't even recognize the games you listed as all being part of the "D&D franchise" for the same reason no one considers donkey kong games to be part of the mario franchise.

Anyone know if Leon will be in RE 5?
It's apparently Chris Redfield that is the main character in Resident Evil 5. But the Resident Evil game coming to the Wii is either an exclusive game, or 5 also. Just have to wait and see.


Do they sell any complete sets of the series?
I know a set was recently released on the cube that has Resident Evil 0, Resident Evil, and Resident Evil 4. It's $40.

GIVE ME YOUR MONEY

Mario as first? I didn't expect to see that.

Man, I haven't played RE since I was around 8 years old. I have only played the very first one and some of Code Veronica.

Do they sell any complete sets of the series?

No. But I expected something to come out this year for the PlayStation 2... it is the 10th anniversary of the series and I thought they might bundle all the PS1/2 titles together and re-release them as a set. I believe you can get all the Resident Evil games released on the Game Cube in one set thought.


It's apparently Chris Redfield that is the main character in Resident Evil 5. But the Resident Evil game coming to the Wii is either an exclusive game, or 5 also. Just have to wait and see.

It won't be Resident Evil 5. IGN reported months ago that the title would be exlusive to the Wii and take advantage of the new mechanics that the controller offers. Capcom may try the same stunt they did with ZERO, and add a new chapter to the main story exlusive to a Nintendo machine.

Mario as first? I didn't expect to see that.

Why not? The original Super Mario Bros. almsot singlehandedly revived the entire video game industry. Even after that, almost all the rest of the games were still ace. I fail to see why anything else should be considered.

Why not? The original Super Mario Bros. almsot singlehandedly revived the entire video game industry. Even after that, almost all the rest of the games were still ace. I fail to see why anything else should be considered.


Agreed. Im still a huge fan of mario games.

Because I have nothing better to do, I'm just going to go franchise by franchise.

25: Virtual Fighter: Not really my cup of tea. If they were going to make it 25, it shouldn't have been on the list because they missed a few really good ones.

24: Half-Life: My first reaction was, "sure, why not... a lot of people play it at least". Then I realized that I actually ENJOY playing Halo games mildly (opposed to Half-Life games, which I can't stand), making this a poor choice in my mind. Honorable mention for this one, maybe, but not actually on the list when so many other, better choices weren’t mentioned.

23: Donkey Kong: Wtf. Just no.

22: Tetris: "Sure, why not". There were better choices, but it's better than the ones below it so I can't complain too much.

21: Command & Conquer: Never played any of the games, so I can't really comment.

20: MegaMan: Higher on the list, please.

19: Sonic: How did this get higher than MegaMan? Someone was smoking crack when they did that.

18: Chrono Trigger: I don't count Chrono Cross as a legitimate sequel to CT, therefore this isn't even a series, let alone a franchise. Should not be on the list, even though CT is great and all.

17: Pokemon: I'm actually fine with it where it is. Has a lot of games and a TV show, which is more than most can say. Any higher and it'd be too high, but I don't mind it being over most of the other titles. Still wtf at MegaMan being so low, though.


16: Tom Clancy: Uh... no. Just no.

15: Madden: Agree for the most part. If any sports series should be here, I'd say Madden makes sense. Considering the Madden games were the only football games I ever enjoyed, I might not have had a problem if it'd been even higher up there. Though, that would depend on what the other 14 titles were.

14: Dungeons & Dragons: Yeah, good call. Might have even deserved to be higher up there.

13: Grand Theft Auto: GTFO. Give it the 25 slot if you MUST, but for the love of god don't put it above all those other games. There are some that should have been on the list and weren't so that this piece of crap could be named. Seriously, IGN should be embarrassed that this slipped by unnoticed.

12: Street Fighter: I can agree to that.

11: Star Wars: Hmm... not sure. I guess it's fine.

10: Civilization: Surprised it was as high as this, but don't have any problems with it being on the list. I think other choices would be better, but Civilization has always been a personal favorite of mine, so I really can't complain.

9: Sims: On the list is fine. Number 9 on the list is just a new form of retardation that seems to afflict people voting on what video games deserve recognition.

8: Metroid: Agree. I'm not a fan of the games myself, but it deserves to be where it is all the same.

7: Resident Evil: Oh fuck no. Lower on the list, damnit. Maybe not even ON the list.

6: Warcraft: Lower. Fine on the list, but lower, lower, lower.

5: Metal Gear: Again, not a fan, but I don't have a problem with it being in the top five. I personally wouldn't have put it there, but I didn't make the list.

4: Castlevania: Undecided. Again, never really liked the series, but it's one of very few mentioned that has managed to make it all the way from the NES. Simply being able to do that makes it deserving of being on the list, though I'm not sure if it's really top five material. Top 10 for sure, but not top 5.

3: Final Fantasy: Top five, sure, if it's #5. Though, there are a lot better choices out there given the games have been mediocre since 7.

1&2: I can agree to those.


Now, I think it's pretty bullshit that Dragon Quest wasn't included. Same with Suikoden. Breath of Fire might have been a nice touch too, but I never played enough of the games to say for sure. If I'm looking to replace some games, then I'm throwing the Diablo series in there (if CT can friggin be there then Diablo sure as hell can) to round out the 25. What about Age of Empires? Hell, I'd pick LEMMINGS over some of those titles.

Anyway, that's my $.02

age of empires should totally be there! prolly in civilizations place. :p (i mostly just love part 2 actually lol)

pokemon should be like 3 imo. >.<

and if only ONE or two games are awesome for a franchise but the rest are like...whatever... should suikoden really be there at all? (replace suikoden with any other rpg you feel like mentioning and maybe you'll get my point). it bring us back to like the stupid crono trigger mistake. awesome ONE game, but barely franchise.

while the others ARE franchase but theres only like 1 or 2 awesome games.

Please keep in mind that I was mentioning titles that weren't included off the top of my head. There are many titles out there that deserved to be on the list more than the ones that were. If I really wanted to, I’d sit down and think of my own list. Though, it’s pretty clear this list was generally made for the masses that didn’t start playing games until the mid-late 90’s (or even later), so I could just as easily disregard the entire list as a farce if I wanted.

it IS a farce! pokemon should be like number 2!!







lol. i keep raising its place everytime i post. :p

I say where the hell was doom or unreal or quake on that list. Doom created FPS and Unreal and Quake defined multiplayer. In my opinnion thats far more influential than mario. *Puts on flame retardant suit and bullet proof vest* Alright Nintendo fans, Bring it on! :p

I say where the hell was doom or unreal or quake on that list. Doom created FPS and Unreal and Quake defined multiplayer. In my opinnion thats far more influential than mario. *Puts on flame retardant suit and bullet proof vest* Alright Nintendo fans, Bring it on! :p
I'm pretty sure that 'defining' multiplayer as you put it never stacks up to a plumber and his affect on the video game industry with Super Mario Bros. Same goes for Doom 'creating' the FPS.

While Mario is undoubtedly the most popular character and franchise of all time that still doesn't make it the greatest. I rate greatness based on how well the game innovates existing concepts or builds entirely new ones. Thats why I would rate Doom, Unreal and Quake higher. Like I said before Doom started FPS and Quake and Unreal defined what should be expected from multiplayer. Thats innovation right there. Platformers existed before Mario and Mario really added nothing new to the mix, its still a great game but other than the jump to 3d hasn't innovated a whole lot. In many ways I would put WOW at the top of the list. I don't even play the game but what its done for online is exemplary. While I understand its a taste thing and I'm never going to convert you, nor is that my goal, thats what I think and I'm sticking to it.

While Mario is undoubtedly the most popular character and franchise of all time that still doesn't make it the greatest. I rate greatness based on how well the game innovates existing concepts or builds entirely new ones. Thats why I would rate Doom, Unreal and Quake higher. Like I said before Doom started FPS and Quake and Unreal defined what should be expected from multiplayer. Thats innovation right there. Platformers existed before Mario and Mario really added nothing new to the mix, its still a great game but other than the jump to 3d hasn't innovated a whole lot. In many ways I would put WOW at the top of the list. I don't even play the game but what its done for online is exemplary. While I understand its a taste thing and I'm never going to convert you, nor is that my goal, thats what I think and I'm sticking to it.
Good. If you're sticking to it, I don't have to waste my breath on such crap.

Guess fanyboys will be fanboys...

And people like you will continue to poison the Earth with stupidity.

Of course, because where I provide reasons for my decision you just say stuff and hope that people will listen. I really don't see why it upsets you so much. I'm willing to listen. So instead of sophmoric insults lets hear a quality rebuttal.

No thanks. I get tired of saying the same points over and over again, and I'm sure someone else will come along in the next day or so to reply to your post. Besides, I'll wait to see a little longer how you post to determine if you are worth my time.

Without Mario, not as many people would be interested in video games altogether. So maybe it isn't the best franchise but it really brought in a lot of potential buyers.
Also, it helped Nintendo come to the top with the number of sales from all their Mario games alone. Nintendo is famous for Mario and a lot of things would be different without it. It was really a game that was fun for all ages and that is what Nintendo is known for.
So it deserves much more credability than Quake, Unreal Tournament, and Doom all put together.

Ive got an idea. Lets put Runscape in the list!!!

Without Mario, not as many people would be interested in video games altogether. So maybe it isn't the best franchise but it really brought in a lot of potential buyers.
Also, it helped Nintendo come to the top with the number of sales from all their Mario games alone. Nintendo is famous for Mario and a lot of things would be different without it. It was really a game that was fun for all ages and that is what Nintendo is known for.
So it deserves much more credability than Quake, Unreal Tournament, and Doom all put together.

I can see where you're coming from. If we interpret the meaning of great in this list to mean its impact on gaming culture, society, etc. Without a doubt mario wins. It brought in so many gamers and continues to draw gamers to this day. That said, however, I interpret it to mean the game itself. In which case, as you acknowledged, its a little questionable. In my opinnion a great game need not be popular or influence society in a big way like Mario. For example the GTR series is superb. Offers some of the most realistic racing available and excellent visuals. However, I'm willing to guess that not many of you have even heard of it. That hasn't stopped Simbin from releasing them and continuing to make them though. In terms of a franchise's impact on society and gaming culture I totally agree with you that mario should be at the top of the list. However, in terms of gameplay, there are better franchises.

Suikoden is cool.

indy00, Doom did not create the FPS genre. In fact, the genre has its roots in the 1980s. It wasn't until the release of Wolfenstein 3D in 1992 (a year before Doom's release) that it was popularized, however.

25: Virtual Fighter: I never played this game, but i think a lot of fighting games could e put here.

24: Half-Life: If we consider that counter strike is the most popular mp fps in the world, then i think it deserves to be in the top 25. CS also brought realistic aiming and damage as well as no respawn and thats why it became popular

23: Donkey Kong: DK is just a dead character in my eyes. He may appear in many nintendo games but as a character himself he is not much. He just didnt deserve to be here.

22: Tetris: Of course. Who doesnt love tetris ;)

21: Command & Conquer: Age of empires could be put here but C&C is ok.

20: MegaMan: It could be higher

19: Sonic: Sonic was great, but he has no good games the last few years.

18: Chrono Trigger: No comment

17: Pokemon: Pokemon is a phenomenon in the whole world. It deserves it..


16: Tom Clancy: Why not? Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six are good games

15: Madden: Dont really like it, but it is a popular one

14: Dungeons & Dragons: Good choice

13: Grand Theft Auto: GTA brought a new way of gaming and it deserves to be here.

12: Street Fighter: Sure, SF is still a popular one, and has great hidtory

11: Star Wars: Never played their games, im not much of a fun. Cant really comment

10: Civilization: No comment

9: Sims: Sims is the best selling game for PCs. I wasnt suprised seeing it here.

8: Metroid: Agree. I'm not a fan of the games myself, but it deserves to be where it is all the same.

7: Resident Evil: Great franchise. The game that created the term "survivar horror" deserves number 7.

6: Warcraft: It should be lower, but thats fine.

5: Metal Gear: No comment

4: Castlevania: No comment

3: Final Fantasy: Im suprised it made it so far. Well of course i like FF but i think it should be lower.

2&3: No suprise, they deserve it

While Mario is undoubtedly the most popular character and franchise of all time that still doesn't make it the greatest. I rate greatness based on how well the game innovates existing concepts or builds entirely new ones. Thats why I would rate Doom, Unreal and Quake higher. Like I said before Doom started FPS and Quake and Unreal defined what should be expected from multiplayer. Thats innovation right there. Platformers existed before Mario and Mario really added nothing new to the mix, its still a great game but other than the jump to 3d hasn't innovated a whole lot. In many ways I would put WOW at the top of the list. I don't even play the game but what its done for online is exemplary. While I understand its a taste thing and I'm never going to convert you, nor is that my goal, thats what I think and I'm sticking to it.

do i have to do it? i kinda don't really feel like it either. especially since i'm not that good with words unless i'm genuinely insulted. that's when my built in thesaurus goes into high gear and i start owning. :p

btw. anyone ever notice that ff12 is just one big thesaurus. its like they made every effort to replace normal words with obscure ones nobody has used in centuries. O_o lol and some just sound incorrectly used.


ANYWAY. mario is the king of innovation imo. sure there are other platformers. but are the controls as fluid as mario games? try playing those cheap movie tie in games. the jumping and running mechanics are fucking horrific. like home alone for the nes. lol

besides. your logic is trying to say that doom/quake deserve it cause they "fathered" certain concepts and laid ground for what should be expected? this is slightly off because of two major points.

1. that's not what the list is about

2. even if it was, mario is the father of all games

ANYWAY. mario is the king of innovation imo. sure there are other platformers. but are the controls as fluid as mario games? try playing those cheap movie tie in games. the jumping and running mechanics are fucking horrific. like home alone for the nes. lol

To bolster this.


Super Mario 64 was the first 3D game in the Mario series, and though it was not the first-ever 3D platformer, it helped to define the genre, much as Super Mario Bros. defined the 2D sidescrolling platformer. Super Mario 64 was considered so revolutionary that many consider it to have set the standard for all later 3D platformer games and 3D games in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_64

I wonder where Halo went. I mean i've never even beat the first stage of a Halo Game (and we have halo 2 for some reason), yet I know people love it.

And Roki, why do you mean you were suprised that Final Fantasy go so high. People absolutely love the series all over the world. Plus Final Fantasy set the RPG standard, and anything that sets a standard (like zelda and action adventure) derserves at least some high place on the list.

Because Halo sucks.

Plain and simple.

NO YOU SUCK

seriously though i don't like any type of shooter so I hate anything that is FPS/WHATEVER ELSE unless it is a 2-d shooter like R-Type or Metroid before that went prime u know I can't stand that PRIME TIME ACTION stuff I mean u all say good game i say I can't stand it man like u guys no like nba mlb man this is how I get back at everyone

Even though Halo 2 is one of the most popular games in the last several years, and everyone knows the word Halo, I thought that might make it enough to appear somewhere in the list. But again, a franchise has at least three titles, at the bare minimum.

Well, except for the fact that they put the "Chrono Franchise" on there.

Well, except for the fact that they put the "Chrono Franchise" on there.

It wouldn't be IGN without at least some degree of jackassery.

final fantasy does not set the standard for rpg's. it's just more well known.

And Roki, why do you mean you were suprised that Final Fantasy go so high. People absolutely love the series all over the world. Plus Final Fantasy set the RPG standard, and anything that sets a standard (like zelda and action adventure) derserves at least some high place on the list.

You are right i should not be really suprised, i know FF are very popular games. Its just that I dont think the games brought anything really new themselves, but of course i love them ;)

You are right i should not be really suprised, i know FF are very popular games. Its just that I dont think the games brought anything really new themselves, but of course i love them ;)

Yea they are popular, but they didn't change gaming that much. But they are still great games.

if they didn't change gaming that much. does that mean there are examples of materia, junctioning, summons, liscence boards, mini games, sidequests limit breaks, adb, ultimate weapons, moogles, chocobo's, and a plethora of other things in other franchises as well?

please do tell!


what is new? who braught something new? xenogears? grandia? lunar? suikoden?

i don't even know what new is anymore. maybe vagrant story with that wierd sphere thingy.

virtual fighter!? DK!? Civilization!!?? they dont deserve that.

Can you name better candidates? Do note that even thinking of Halo is an automatic fail.

Since gaming has been happening for over 20 years, it's pretty hard to get new ideas

Tekken, Silent Hill, Crash Badicoot:-P

Sciz_Bisket, massive fail for saying Civ doesn't deserve to be on the list.

Even if I accept that all of these belong on the list [some don't, but I digress], i'm really perplexed by the order. Sims above Civilization? No.

Someone explain why Resident Evil is above Metroid. One great game does not make a great franchise, and it certainly doesn't make an otherwise mediocre/sub-par franchise better than one with a higher ratio of great games.

Final Fantasy is much too high, but that's to be expected.

It's a pity that so many great RPG franchises were left off the list while a non-franchise made it. I would complain that they didn't even discuss Chrono Cross, but I realize i'm in the minority in thinking it's a better game than CT.

NO YOU SUCK

seriously though i don't like any type of shooter so I hate anything that is FPS/WHATEVER ELSE unless it is a 2-d shooter like R-Type or Metroid before that went prime u know I can't stand that PRIME TIME ACTION stuff I mean u all say good game i say I can't stand it man like u guys no like nba mlb man this is how I get back at everyone

NO, CARNIVAIL GOLD FISH SUCK.
seriously whats up with them always dieing like the next day or somthing?

NO, CARNIVAIL GOLD FISH SUCK.
seriously whats up with them always dieing like the next day or somthing?

It's really cute how you ignore direct questions. My guess is you can't come up with decent answers.

Civilization!!?? they dont deserve that.

Civilization has pretty much been the pinnacle of turn based strategy for the past... forever. you are wrong.

Is Final Fantasy Tactics near the top of that pinnacle?