hey, i just started a new game because i knew i opened one of the zodiac spear chests. Are there any other items i can miss out on? All i know is that i gotta steal the Genji equip. from gilgamesh since theres no other way.

what? really? wow. good thing you told me. i don't think i'm anywhere near any gilgameshes yet, but now that i know, that's great. :p

and i think paying 30 bucks for the strat guide could have saved you the 50 hours you just erased in the game right?


IF YOUR A PERFECTIONIST, GET A STRAT GUIDE!!!

bump

i thought you could create the genji armor with loot sold to the bazaar?

The best advice is to buy the strat guide. It alerts you about hidden items an such during the walkthrough without giving away to much of the story.

But if you buy the guide, you're succumbing to their evil plans. Those jappo bastards love hiding stuff in their games that no one can possibly find without the damn guide. It's practically extortion when you can't get everything out of a game you've already paid for without buying the guide as well.

DAMN RIGHT! EFFIN JAPPOS!

You can find everything on your own, it just might take you anywhere between 10-120 years

If you can't get a weapon because you opened a chest near the beginning of the game, that is bullshit. No one in their right mind is going to pass on a chest unless they know about that. And the only way to find out is... you guessed it. A guide.

It's a sinister tactic to sell strategy guides. It's basically extortion and every time you buy a guide for such a game, you encourage companies to take advantage of you and milk you for every dime you're worth because you're a fucking moron.

that is right...what is next having to steal a final weapon from the first boss you fight and not even being able to equip steal til you are level 10...which is what you would have to find out and then facepalm after you read the guide?

Just about everything in the strat is located on the internet somewhere, so you could always look it and compile your own strategy guide. I realize this will take you some time but at least you won't have to pay for it, well except for the internet.

oh prak. you silly fool. don't you know that it's better to play the fool than fight the revolution?

i'm content being milked by the japs. at least it feels good compared to defying them and getting nothing out of it. :p

yes tact also very true...but the revolution has to start somewhere and i think i will wait to start it on my end...cause i really enjoy this game and the strat guide does help out TONS on many hunts

BUT MAN I GOT THAT SPEAR AND OWNED EVERYBODY MAN

If you opened chest, you just missed out the chance of getting the spear early, as you can still get it later in the game. So what's these whole "cheap tact to have you buy the strat guide" all about? Consider the spear is something extra, a bonus, at the stage when you can get them, so no harm really, is there?

It's not just about a single weapon. It's about the entire mentality that allows things like that.

yea...the point of the matter is...no one would know that if they opened that chest there then they would not get the (arguably) best weapon in the game...or actually the chance of getting would phenomenally decrease...so the point is if you don't get it on the first go round you would probably not even know about it...then you would have to find out about this weapon in the ffshrine forums...then you have to post a thread about how you can obtain this and other "hidden items" throughout the game

If you put it that way, Prak, then it sounds to me that you are the kind of gamers who likes to figure out everything yourself. Though it feels satisfactory after you solved a puzzle on your own, or defeated a boss with everything you had, I just don't think it is feasible for someone to figure out EVERYTHING on their own. It is what it is: how can someone figure out a rare monster is to appear in location X after you kill Y number of monsters? There is just no way. And the Zodiac Spears, is a clear example of that. Yes, you may miss out the chance of getting it early in the game, but hey, all is not lost. There are people who are willing to spend $$ on strategy guide or look up online to know ahead of their time; others like to discover. The fact that the developers put some "easter egg" in there shouldn't get anyone aggravated. Those who has knowledge should get the reward it benefits, and the possession of that knowledge makes all the difference.

Like I said, if you still think the game developers are evil for hidden things like that in the game and "force" you to buy the strategy guide... I don't know what to say. Go figure out things yourself: all the Espers, best weapons,e tc... It is possible to attain everything by oneself, it simply is not likely. It's like crying when someone won the lotto by shear luck and you didn't - it isn't exactly fair. A hard-working person can make just as much, but why spend 24/7 working when you can write down 6 magic numbers. It is probably not the best example and by no means I intend to insult anyone, I'm just trying to illustrate my point.

It seems you've missed the point. (I'm being kind and not writing you off as an idiot immediately. I hope you appreciate the courtesy.)

If a player cannot possibly figure something out on his/her own, then it should not be in a game in the first place. Creating such scenarios is an unnecessary and unethical practice that gives no deeper value to a game and merely serves to drain more money from the wallets of consumers. I have nothing against guides in and of themselves, but the practice of designing games to make guides necessary is bullshit.

I have nothing against guides in and of themselves, but the practice of designing games to make guides necessary is bullshit.

It is possible for you to figure out everything, it is just not feasible. Everyone has a chance to win the lotto if one buys a ticket, it is mathematically proven; that doesn't mean I can go buy a ticket tonight and expect my name to show up on the bulletin to claim the prize the next morning.

Nothing is lost: the spear is still there, as well as all the other items. The only things you need to progress the game are the key items and you can't possibly miss them. You mentioned I missed the point and you were being nice for not "not writing me off as an idiot immediately", would you mind shed some light on the subject as if you understand the point? Hopefully with backup and/or examples.

At this point, you are written off as an idiot (or at least a dumbass) and I will not associate further with you of my own volition. All the relevant answers to your queries are already contained in this thread, so if you lack the ability to process that, there's no reason to believe you'll be able to if I simply reiterate things I've already said.

I have time to kill, so here we go :)


But if you buy the guide, you're succumbing to their evil plans. Those jappo bastards love hiding stuff in their games that no one can possibly find without the damn guide. It's practically extortion when you can't get everything out of a game you've already paid for without buying the guide as well.
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If you can't get a weapon because you opened a chest near the beginning of the game, that is bullshit. No one in their right mind is going to pass on a chest unless they know about that. And the only way to find out is... you guessed it. A guide.

It's a sinister tactic to sell strategy guides. It's basically extortion and every time you buy a guide for such a game, you encourage companies to take advantage of you and milk you for every dime you're worth because you're a fucking moron.
+

It's not just about a single weapon. It's about the entire mentality that allows things like that.

Dear Prak,

These are assorted replies you had contributed in this thread (I hope I didn't miss anything!). As far as I can tell, you don't like the fact that the game developers put secret content in it and only those with the guide can find them, therefore buying the guide is to encourage and support their actions. I would further assume that if you have a choice you'd revolt such "tactic" by not buying the guide (or look up online, for that matter), starting with yourself. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

My simple reply is that, though I don't disagree with you in the facts (things in the game you need some sort of "guide" to discover), one should approach such fact with the mentality that they are normal just like everything else in this world. We like options. Player A may enjoy killing every mob in the game and compile a list of what dropped off each one while Player B looked up online, went ahead and killed those only he needed. Your mileage may vary. Who's "right" in this case, Player A or B? The answer is neither. FF-XII is a game, a game has content, if you really want to spend hundreds of hours to figure out everything then no one is stopping you. It is probable for someone to discover the secret of the Zodiac Spears all on his own, I just hope it's better than hitting Jackpot which stands nicely at 0.00000007151%.

Then of course, all these will be a monologue because you "will not associate further with me of my own volition".

Happy gaming everyone, it is a truly amazing game.

Yours truly,

Joclyn

hey joclyn, stop getting confused

Prak's just saying that if there are aspects of the game that are left purely to chance and/or are impossible to figure out solely by the gamer, it shouldn't be there
games are meant to be played and solved through logic and critical thinking, not by looking through a guide...otherwise, you're left with nothing more than a pop-up book on steroids

You have solicited a reply, so I will provide one, albeit somewhat grudgingly as I do despise having to spell out the absurdly obvious.

For one thing, my point is a general one that is not specifically directed at FFXII, but does use it as an example. Now, you say it is possible to discover such a secret on one's own? How are they to do that when no clue is given. No one with any sense is going to pass up a treasure chest unless they know for a fact that there will be some benefit in doing so. The chance of someone finding it on their own is almost non-existent, but a person finding it and understanding why it appeared is entirely impossible.

And to address your lottery metaphor, at least people with lottery tickets know what there is to be gained and will understand what has happened if they win.

EDIT, I love that metaphor about a pop-up book on steroids. I'll be using that in the future, I think!

concerning the metaphor...i have to give credit where credit is due

that metaphor was something that a D&D buddy of mine used to describe a good majority of games that claimed to be RPGs
he just blurted it out one day when this kid tried to tell him that pen-and-paper RPGs weren't real games...he moved on to say that "a game where the story in general is pre-dictated is nothing more than a pop-up book on steroids"
it stuck with our group ever since

I didn't argue against the mechanics of the game because everyone sees it differently: a puzzle that is trivial to someone else may be impossible to complete by me. GameStop wouldn't require someone to have an IQ of 80+ before purchasing the game. It all depends on the viewpoint of the player, after all.

What I was arguing against was the attitude Prak had. I didn't sense any hostility in my original post, yet I received replies like "idiot" and "dumbass", and those were "out of courtesy". What for? And it wasn't like I was making things up: I stated my thesis and backed up with facts, which I think is a much mature way to present a point.

Although thanks z.zetsumei for trying to mediate with a neutral viewpoint.

For one thing, my point is a general one that is not specifically directed at FFXII, but does use it as an example. Now, you say it is possible to discover such a secret on one's own? How are they to do that when no clue is given. No one with any sense is going to pass up a treasure chest unless they know for a fact that there will be some benefit in doing so. The chance of someone finding it on their own is almost non-existent, but a person finding it and understanding why it appeared is entirely impossible.

I said for someone to obtain the same effect without a guide is possible, but not probable. One person getting struck by lightening twice and live both times is very possible, but most likely not probable, by the same token. In case you need further explanations, I can recommend a few sites/books about logic since someone here needs some.

You did not reply to me with facts. You replied with colored perspectives, ineffective metaphors and analogies, and equivalistic nonsense.

Also, challenging my maturity does not in any way alter the fact that my viewpoint is based in the purest logic and is infallible by that standard, nor does it strengthen your own position of resistance, as most people here understand that I am always correct about such things.

Ah, the ego strikes again.

I've earned it, thanks very much.

There is a fine line between pride and proudness. It's ok, it's 5 PM and it's time to head home. Suit it however you will. Enjoy.

yah that's why i dind't even bother arguing. even i, the simplest of minds, saw prak was pretty much right and simply excused myself out of a possible discussion by admitting that i'd prolly buy the guides anyway (whether they contained secrets or not) cause i just like the pictorz. :p

that's my view on things. heck. i just went online and baught the old ff7,8, and 9 guides even though i already have near perfect games and passed them years ago. what do i need them for? (i like to collect things :p)

but yah. prak is on to something. i can't agree with him yet whether such things should or should not be in a game. but when you think about it, it does seem sneaky. :p

all in all. we got a dead thread here. would someone mind sealing it shut now? bringing any point back would just be -_- since everything that could be said has been said.

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so how's that list going?

btw, all the loot you get from the mark hunts, is it okay to sell those? i mean it's not used for anything; but the bazaar is it?

Alright, that was a little random Dramacydal, lol.

As for me I'm pretty deep into the game already gladly opening every chest I run across, and there is now way in hell I'm going to restat all those hours just to spend more cash on a guide, and to have the supposed best weapon. I'll be just fine with the 1st runner up.

i think the Wyrmhero Blade and the Tournesol are better options than the Zodiac Spear anywayz cuz of their added effects so i wont hassle over trying to get the spear.