What is it?

what is it what?...

Sorry not clear...what i meant was... which is your favourite system for character progression, for example the sphere grid, of junctioning etc.

sphere grid...

and i kinda like that license board system, although still not playing it...

Yer my favourite is the Sphere Grid, Junctioning just annoyed me.

FFIX's ability system rocked my socks. Simple enough to understand, yet it required a little bit of thought, unlike junctioning and especially the Sphere Grid.

1. Sphere Grid
2. FFIX
3. Any of the classics
4. Materia (yuck)
5. Junctioning (YUCK!)

Tactics just because

YEAH JUST BECAUSE YOU SUCKAS WHO ARE GOING TO LEFT WITH A HORRIBLE DRAFT IN THE NBA BUT I DON'T CARE ANYMORE GO MLB WOOO WOO NO SALARY CAP OVERPAID PLAYERS LUXURY TAX IT IS THE BEST!

Garment Grids followed by Materia.

The Sphere Grid wasn't all that great because if you were focused on completing it with everyone like I was, you'd be left with nothing but clones. Everyone would have the same moves and the same stats with the exception of Yuna, who is able to summon. It's also a non-changeable decision, meaning that you'd have to play as these clones forever. All of the classics had job-specific moves which I didn't much like. Both Garment Grids and Materia allow you to have all of the moves and stat changes available to you, but they give you the freedom to choose which ones you want.

The Relics/Espers system of VI and after that the IX one.
In my opinion VIII is the worst.

First i wouldn't say the system in FFII isn't the worst, but then again: it's hell of annoying in the early parts of the game. ;(

The Runic/Esper system (FF6) is easily my favorite, and then the Abilities/Class system (FF9).

I like having unique abilities for each character but I also was really amused by having my at-one-time merely "average" Locke suddenly become the most powerful fighter AND Black Magic-weilding powerhouse in the entire game. :P

And second, i enjoyed the Sphere-Grid system the most out of all. I think it was the best thing Square ever came up with to use in a Final Fantasy game.

And second, i enjoyed the Sphere-Grid system the most out of all. I think it was the best thing Square ever came up with to use in a Final Fantasy game.

Same. I'd like to see a sphere grid which is unique to every character, though, as distinct as the classics, or FFIX.

i don't see why people don't like materia, i thought it was awesome, simple enough to use and you can make lots of combos, second is FFIX's system

Many people dislike the Materia system because once you actually begin to get Materia (especially the good stuff), it becomes really clunky, and once you get to the good weapons and armor, materia selections become no-brainers.

The ability stone system (FFIX) is far superior, for it forces you to make equipment decisions very frequently, and until you're over-levelled, you have to think about what abilities to equip on your characters.

I forgot to mention the Garment Grid system in my last post, but I absolutely adore it, as well. So many choices!

The Job System from FFV. Combining classes is always entertaining. I hear Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced did a better job with it though; I should probably check that game out some time...

Hm......My favourite top 10 of character-building-systems:

1. FFX
2. FFIII
3. FFVI
4. FFV
5. FFIX
6. FFVII
7. FFVIII
8. FFI
9. FFX-2
10. FFIV

Same. I'd like to see a sphere grid which is unique to every character, though, as distinct as the classics, or FFIX.

Agreed, I'd like to see that as well. =)

Trent - when did you play FF3? :p

Agreed, I'd like to see that as well. =)

Trent - when did you play FF3? :p

1. FFIX - When i was 14 (year 2000)
2. FFVIII - 15
3. FFVI - 15
4. FFVII - 16
5. FFX - 17
6. FFI - 17
7. FFII - 18
8. FFX-2 - 19
9. FFIV - 19
10. FFIII - 19 (2005)
11. FFV - 20

Why you ask? :p

I didn't know you could read and play Japanese video games since FFIII is being released in english for the first time this year =\

Ow, that's why you're confused. :p A good friend of mine (who's Japanese ^^) has this game, and therefore i went to him and played this game, and of course, he helped me out with the entire game. ; )

Well, I liked the grid system of FFX, but the junction sucked indeed.

I also like the dresssphere system in FFX2

sphere grid was good it was alot different to anything else, the junction system was too easy it could make you so strong without you doing anything

the junction system was too easy it could make you so strong without you doing anything


In the junction system there was a really weird way of using elements. I tough it really sucked, it wasn't that easy

im saying using the junction system was made it too easy to become really powerful without doing anything, whih it did you didnt need to level up, only find some draw points and your done

The junction system was stupidly easy. When a character below level 20 can have 9999 HP and 255 Str, there's definite brokenness. And yes, that's not hard to do, if you put three seconds of thought into your Junctioning.

I Would have to say ff7 materia system was the best, Its endless on what you can do with materia and you have the choice of what character gets what. Then 9 was pretty awesome to. The worst is The Sphere Grid.

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The best ones for me are FF6's and FF9's ones. FF6's is easy to learn and ballanced. It also makes you thinking of what Relics or Espers you want to use in the battles.

FF9's is pretty nice too. Every character has his own extra abilities and attacks.

its to easy to level up, 10 was not a challenge at all in my opoinion

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I had fun with all of the systems in the games i played.

I forget 4's was it just fixed abilities? ah i had fun anyway :)

I didn't ever figure out 5's properly but still got to world 2... I should take another look someday

I forget the earlier games, but i thoroughly enjoyed 6's system if i recall, you learn moves from both espers and relics? and some people have their own skills from the start?

I liked materia but now realise it's not a good system. I always enjoyed finding things like ramuh and deathblow lying on the floor, it's a bit silly and makes the game too easy now though.

8's system was ok until i discovered how easy it is to exploit the hell out of it.

9 was great and i think it's my favourite, although i always had way more abilities than stones to equip them with :( it would be nice if it was possible to increase them somehow.

10's spheregrid was good fun, although i thought it was a little random unless you memorize the path you want beforehand, but that is too much like hard work for me. I just enjoyed getting str+1 and hp+400. Learning fire on characters with no magic was a little anoying since there aren't clumps of mag+1 anywhere. Or are there? i forget.

Ive never played ffx-2 but my sister owns it so i may give it a go one day.

I would have to say VII getting to pick who got what materia and different combinations of materia like Final attack and Pheonix cheap but awesome.

I would have to say VII getting to pick who got what materia and different combinations of materia like Final attack and Pheonix cheap but awesome.

So destroying what makes each character unique in battle and trying to replace it with thoughtless brokenness is awesome? You must be using awesome in a way I've never heard before.

FFIX for me. Each character maintains their individuality and you are required to think about which characters you should use, depending on the situation.

FFVI: Similar to FFIX, I like the Relics too.

FFVII:The materia system is appalling, as you can have any character learn ANY ability, this takes away any and all uniqueness, removes any need for strategy and unbalances the game. You can learn 16 spells at one time for fucks sake.

FFVIII: I won't even go there.........

FFX: Was a fairly decent concept, but again, you can make any character whatever you want them to be.

FFX-2: I thought this was very good, the Garmet Grid covers all the angles, and removes the need for 6 or more characters.

FFIX for me. Each character maintains their individuality and you are required to think about which characters you should use, depending on the situation.

FFVI: Similar to FFIX, I like the Relics too.

FFVII:The materia system is appalling, as you can have any character learn ANY ability, this takes away any and all uniqueness, removes any need for strategy and unbalances the game. You can learn 16 spells at one time for fucks sake.

FFVIII: I won't even go there.........

FFX: Was a fairly decent concept, but again, you can make any character whatever you want them to be.

FFX-2: I thought this was very good, the Garmet Grid covers all the angles, and removes the need for 6 or more characters.

Quit picking my brain. Also, QFT.

FFVII's system was my favourite. You could level up the materia and move it around between characters. i dont like the whole deal where one character has a set class.

But because of that, you also had a slew of wasted characters. If any character can be equipped to do exactly the same thing as another, then there's absolutely no point in using anything other than the same three characters the whole way through. Therefore, the materia system is fatally flawed in that it completely destroys the entire party dynamic.

Ive never played ffx-2 but my sister owns it so i may give it a go one day.

You should definately give it a go. It has a lot of customisation and possibilities. you choose your class and switch between them easily, and your stats level up as you do. no sphere grid this time, only dress shere grid thingos which i found annoying. i wanted to be able to pick any of my dress sheres in battle not just a max of 6 or something.

I do think the 'Sphere Grid' system is top as well as the development system in FFII.

I prefer keeping characters in specific roles, unless there are very few characters to begin with (such as in V or X-2). VII, VIII, and X were all far too easy to break (especially VII). I liked IV and IX the most, and X-2 has an excellent system as well.

I didn't know you could read and play Japanese video games since FFIII is being released in english for the first time this year =\

fantranslated roms jackass

also, materia was a terrible system, sphere grid was good, IX was fantastic, i honestly dont remember junction well enough to have an opinion,

I liked sphere grid in FFX the best.It was so addictive!!!

fantranslated roms jackass

also, materia was a terrible system, sphere grid was good, IX was fantastic, i honestly dont remember junction well enough to have an opinion,

Jackass eh, you witless twat? I'll keep in mind that, according to you, one is able to use an illegal reproduction of a certain item normally, as if somehow a perfect translation was made from one programming language to another and one conversational language to another, complete with identical textures as well. When I begin counterfeiting $50 bills, I can only hope that the government employees sent to detain me are equally as imbecilic as you. "Oh well, it MUST be real. We use construction paper too, right?"

Ftr, I wasn't being sarcastic or a jackass to Trent. I simply inquired because I assumed it was the original japanese version of the game he was playing. He answered me the next day, or three months ago now, and I can't recall whether or not he was playing a ROM. Congratulations on your glib remark to something three months old that you misinterpreted.

I liked the whole idea of junctioning. What I didn like with that system was how easy it was to level up. 1000exp each time. It made the game to easy.

Where as with Materia and such, You had a sorta penalty/Gain system which kept things in balance a bit. For example. Lets say you equipped Bahamut Zero to someone, They would gain a lot of mp points and magic stats. But lose a shitload of life to make up for it.

But with FFVIII the only penalty system is really losing something when you use a junctioned magic, and when you had something like 100 full lifes on hp junction. It doesnt matter if you used 10 full lifes, you'd still pretty much be on insane amount of hp anyways.

The Sphere Grid I found to complicated to be honest. I didn like the whole idea of each person being something specific, But if they wanted to branch out and learn someone elses moves as well, Like Yuna She could easily have learnt All her white magics and such, Then with an sphere that teleported that character to any open sphere, She could pick up all the devastating Black Magic that is pretty much meant for lulu as she is the "magic user" or something to that degree. Wakka terms it her at the start I believe.

FFIX Was again a good system to learn things, only learning what you had equipped, What I did like about it, Was People kept their individuality in that one, Like Freya could only use Jump, Vivi was the mage, Amarant could throw, Quina eating etc etc, But Again there wasn really no penalty system on there. It was made to easy. The closest thing to a penalty on that one was removing the weapon before you had learnt it. But you were bound to have another chance to learn it somewhere else down the road.

I probably would say that FFX-2 had the best system with the Garment Grids, Even though there was no individuality as such, Bar Floral Fallal, Machina Maw and the other one. They had there own styles of each dressphere that was something. But you could choose everything. And later on in the game when you picked up the more advanced Garment grids you could use attacks previously learnt with another dressphere giving you a bit of an advantage, Which was soometimes needed as some of the monsters on that game were insane. But another thing I liked about it was that there was a fair penatly system. Like when you became a mage, You couldn attack you had low life and defense but high Magic and Magic defense as most of us expect mages to have, But on the other hand when you were a knight or a swords man, Your attack and life went up but your magic and magic defense went down. Compensating for the differences, instead of allowing you to become one mega character.

I like the sphere grid the best. I dont give a shit if all my characters come out the same, its cool, and I like the idea of building them up.

VII is the second best. Rearranging materia and leveling it up is cool. Again, I dont give a shit if my characters are the same, I only like them for the story, not their battle prowess. And their limit breaks, which are uniqe.

Isnt relics in VI just like accessories? You equip them, they give you an ability...whats so good about that? VII had that shit.

But because of that, you also had a slew of wasted characters. If any character can be equipped to do exactly the same thing as another, then there's absolutely no point in using anything other than the same three characters the whole way through. Therefore, the materia system is fatally flawed in that it completely destroys the entire party dynamic.

I used the characters who's Limit Breaks were good. This kind of made up for it.

Nope. That reinforces my point if you just picked a set of characters with limit breaks that you liked and disregarded the others.

Nope. That reinforces my point if you just picked a set of characters with limit breaks that you liked and disregarded the others.

I used the characters for how they looked...

I liked the whole idea of junctioning. What I didn like with that system was how easy it was to level up. 1000exp each time. It made the game to easy.

I thought the junctioning idea was pretty neat, but Squeenix's execution of said idea was terrible. Rewarding players that didn't level up made for one very broken system.

I thought the junctioning idea was pretty neat, but Squeenix's execution of said idea was terrible. Rewarding players that didn't level up made for one very broken system.

How do you know what a "broken system" is. Whats broken to you might be pretty kickass to someone else. It all leads down to your PERSONAL OPINIONS about FFVIII. You dont have a degree in making video games. Go up to the entire team at Square and tell them their battle system in FFVIII was broken, and they would laugh in your face.

So you're saying you have to make games to know what a good game is? :laugh:

So you're saying you have to make games to know what a good game is? :laugh:

A good game to you, could be bad to someone else. Fact is, the guys who MADE FFVIII knew what they were doing. Thats why the game STILL scored high on reviews, and STILL sold a shitload of copies. You cant go around saying "Oh this game is broken, its broken." When thats just an opinion you have. That isnt a fact, cuz someone else might not think that way.

Get it now?

What I get is the fact that you're full of shit and cannot present a convincing argument, so you constantly fall back on that opinion bullshit. I'd find it sad if it wasn't so funny.

I kind of dont understand why Grim is saying this stuff about "its just your opinion". Because thats really all people have been giving. Seems like making an argument out of thin air really.

Here's five pages of "thin air arguments." (Thread 9566)

What I get is the fact that you're full of shit and cannot present a convincing argument, so you constantly fall back on that opinion bullshit. I'd find it sad if it wasn't so funny.

What I find humorous is that he replies to me when he knows I'm ignoring him. I guess that's one way to win an argument... :laugh:

edit: Sorry about the double-post. Must've been a temporary loss of faculties.

Wtf is happening to this place? xD This is like a giant nest of frustrated runescape players?

u guys r dum asses.......opinons cant b wrong......and no mater wut u guys say ff7 was da best n thats a FACT

I like this guy. He speaks a lot of sense. ^^

Well, considering the fact that you just flamed at opinions never being wrong, shouldn't you be saying: I thought FF7 was ''da'' bestn thats a fact?

A good game to you, could be bad to someone else. Fact is, the guys who MADE FFVIII knew what they were doing. Thats why the game STILL scored high on reviews, and STILL sold a shitload of copies. You cant go around saying "Oh this game is broken, its broken." When thats just an opinion you have. That isnt a fact, cuz someone else might not think that way.

Get it now?

Who died and left you in charge of defining what's opinions and facts? The assertion that FF8 is broken is backed up countless times by how easy it is to abuse the junctioning system. Whether it's opinion or not is irrelevant, it's still pretty factual.

And please, the next time you want to fall back on the popularity argument, remember this : The same line of reasoning could be used to say that Scientology is a legitimate religion.

Guys, the reason I always fall back on the opinions, is because that is all you can EVER have about a video game. Because what is fun to you, might not be for someone else. Just because you think its "broken" because you can abuse the system, other people might love that and not think that way. Unless you MADE the game, all you can have are personal opinions...NOTHING else.


BTW, I would stop if you guys would stop responding to me. Just dont say ANYTHING else after this, and I wont post nothing more about it. But you keep mouthing off, so Im gunna keep responding.

And please, the next time you want to fall back on the popularity argument, remember this : The same line of reasoning could be used to say that Scientology is a legitimate religion.

Oooh, that's a good one. I was getting tired of the Dubya line I'd been using till now. Mind if I borrow it every now and again?

Guys, the reason I always fall back on the opinions, is because that is all you can EVER have about a video game. Because what is fun to you, might not be for someone else. Just because you think its "broken" because you can abuse the system, other people might love that and not think that way. Unless you MADE the game, all you can have are personal opinions...NOTHING else.

Opinions are only as strong as the arguments used to back them up. Regardless of what you think, there are attributes in the game that determine the overall objective quality of a game. Just because you've never been able to find them, doesn't mean that it isn't there since there are more informed gamers out there that CAN pick those attributes out.

PS : Go ahead Cyan. ;)

Opinions are only as strong as the arguments used to back them up. Regardless of what you think, there are attributes in the game that determine the overall objective quality of a game. Just because you've never been able to find them, doesn't mean that it isn't there since there are more informed gamers out there that CAN pick those attributes out.

PS : Go ahead Cyan. ;)

No, you cant. What makes you a more "informed" gamer? Just because you spend your entire life playing video games? Even the guys who review games for a living get it wrong. You know why? Because its their opinion, not fact. It even says that right before most reviews. You dont always have to back your opinions up with arguments, because in the end, not matter how many facts you have to support your claim, it is still an opinion, nothing else. SOME of those attributes that YOU may deem unworthy, arnt so to other people. YOUR SAY SO is not the final one, believe it or not. I know plenty games that I dont like. Do I go around, and try to say it wasnt made correctly? And its broken? Or the developers are too lazy? Hell no! Cuz you dont know these things for a fact!

Boy, you guys just cant shut the fuck up can you. Yeah, go ahead Cyan, lets see if your dumb enough to respond to this. :)

PS : Go ahead Cyan.

Why, thank you! XD

No, you cant. What makes you a more "informed" gamer?

Simple, I was there when the game industry I was still in its juvenile stage. I was there when games were still in the 8 bit era, and I remembered when games have simplistic, yet ingenious designs. I remembered when games were almost impossibly difficult to finish. I've been let down by newer games who exceed in all aspects but make the game pathetically easy (Grandia 2), I've been let down by game series that milk a concept for soo many times without dicking with a formula even when it's arachaic and outdated (Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, although FF might be showing rekindled sparks of innovation as of late). I've been let down by the US gaming community who turn their noses up at certain innovative games because they can't be arsed to do more than pick and choose from a menu in their own leisure. (Vagrant Story)

That's what makes me an informed gamer, I *KNOW* what makes a game a good-quality game and I know what makes a game crappy. I don't pretend to know every single detail of every game in existence, but at least, from what was seen here, me and Cyan knows better than you.

You can take a dump in a box, call it a game and it could sell like hotcakes. That does NOT suddenly mean that the shit is gold, shit is still shit.

FF8