In GH, where did all the Final Fantasy mp3's go?

we recieved a cease and desist letter from square-enix and were essentially forced to remove them.

if you're discontent with this (as many people are), we urge you to contact them. emails work, but regular letters are a lot more effective.

we recieved a cease and desist letter from square-enix and were essentially forced to remove them.

Thank you, S-E! You made my day! :-D (I told you this would happen)


if you're discontent with this (as many people are), we urge you to contact them. emails work, but regular letters are a lot more effective.

Hmm, yes, I think S-E is definetly willing to let their Soundtracks be pirated [/Sarcasm]

this is by no means anything to root for. it's simply a sad reality of the justice system and nothing more: if you're not willing to spend absurd amounts of money defending yourself and your position, even being on the right side of the law won't always be enough.


Hmm, yes, I think S-E is definetly willing to let their Soundtracks be pirated

you're absolutely wrong there. square-enix, along with any other reasonble company out there, has every reason to listen to the financial supporters. and yes, contrary to your beliefs, the average visitor of Galbadia Hotel does put a decent bit of money into square-enix's pockets.

I can guarantee you that if square were to get an RIAA-esque reputation, their fanbase and customer loyalty would drop like a rock. this was a poor decision on square-enix's part, and I intend on making that quite public.

and just because I've been forced to take them down for now doesn't mean I won't find a dozen new ways to distribute soundtracks that they can't legally touch.

and yes, contrary to your beliefs, the average visitor of Galbadia Hotel does put a decent bit of money into square-enix's pockets.

Could you please elaborate? How do you know this? Even if they put a bit of money into S-E's pocket, the downloader’s are taking, say, 3 times more away from their profit. I don't call that a rewarding experience.



I can guarantee you that if square were to get an RIAA-esque reputation, their fanbase and customer loyalty would drop like a rock. this was a poor decision on square-enix's part, and I intend on making that quite public

How is that a poor decision on S-E's behalf? The VGM market exists only in Japan (with the exception of a few American OST releases). Their market is doing very well there, while there is no market overseas. So I doubt that the decision would even effect them financially or reputation-wise.



and just because I've been forced to take them down for now doesn't mean I won't find a dozen new ways to distribute soundtracks that they can't legally touch.

S-E, and their respectable composers, can access anything as long as they own part of the copyright of the material. They can still forcibly remove your illegal MP3's, whether you like it or not. It's only a matter of time before such other places storing MP3s are caught out, though I am not surprised that this was caught so soon.

Could you please elaborate? How do you know this? Even if they put a bit of money into S-E's pocket, the downloader�s are taking, say, 3 times more away from their profit. I don't call that a rewarding experience.
i just wanted to reply to this part. how are they taking away profit? you are downloading material that s-e doesn't even see worth their time to release here. obviously they don't think there's a profit to be made. sarah is just giving us access to things that normally we wouldn't even be able to buy. stealing about as much money as fansubbing unlicensed anime: $0.

I think we're missing the bigger picture here.

FFShrine (well, one of it's subsidaries at least) recieved a letter from Square-Enix!

How awesome is that!

how are they taking away profit?

Let me think? Ah, an idea! Downloading minimizes profit, as most people do not seem to care and don't buy the original material.


you are downloading material that s-e doesn't even see worth their time to release here.obviously they don't think there's a profit to be made.

Yet, they could release the Soundtrack down here, if more people imported the product. Sure, downloading might raise the chance of a domestic release, but by that time, the public would be so used to downloading, that the releases would just unnoticed, overshadowed by the plague that is MP3s. There are the few people who actually do buy the OSTs after downloading, but the incredible vast majority doesn’t.


sarah is just giving us access to things that normally we wouldn't even be able to buy.

I'm 14 years old, and I buy every OST I come to like. My wager? $20 a week (includes job and pocket money). If I can afford importing from Japan, then anyone can.


I think we're missing the bigger picture here.

FFShrine (well, one of it's subsidaries at least) recieved a letter from Square-Enix!

How awesome is that!

WOW! And to think that my composer interviews could ever beat that awesome achievement :-P

EDIT: Why doesn't everybody just download the music from iTunes, though to buy a full 4-disc album, it is more expensive than an import from Japan. The only people who should be downloading, or sharing MP3s, are the ones who are contributing to help determine sales, like a reviewer. They are actually contributing to a good cause.

i seriously doubt that square-enix sees the import numbers, and even if they did.. importing is pretty outrageous in the price department if i remember correctly. if they don't want to make it readily available then i'm not going to pay for it kthx.


ok i'll be honest with you. i don't pay for anything i can download =). i also don't listen to video game music. just trying to make a point here.

If i like one song of a game or music cd i wont ever buy it unless i find it really cheap

So for that reason alone its sad to see their ost's go away from the list as there are allot of ost's i only like 1or2 songs from(FFCC menuscreen theme as example xP)
But i'm lucky that we have some importshops here who sell the original FF ost's and they were really cheap imo, i bought FF7,8 and 9ost at 30� a piece wich is a great price for 4disc ost's


The only people who should be downloading, or sharing MP3s, are the ones who are contributing to help determine sales, like a reviewer. They are actually contributing to a good cause.
The people who punch you in the face for bein an arrogant fuck are actually contributing to a good causehttp://users.telenet.be/0611/stuff/101.gif

But i'm lucky that we have some importshops here who sell the original FF ost's and they were really cheap imo, i bought FF7,8 and 9ost at 30� a piece wich is a great price for 4disc ost's

Are you sure they weren't bootlegs?



The people who punch you in the face for bein an arrogant fuck are actually contributing to a good causehttp://users.telenet.be/0611/stuff/101.gif

How am I being arrogant? I'm simply stating the facts. If you can't handle the truth, then cry to your mommy.

i've never bought a bootleg in my life.
And you assuming that by reviews people will go out and buy is arrogant you selfadoring whore.

The people who are most willing to buy them in the first place are people who are already familiar with the music seeing as its a soundtrack!!

Only people who claim to be videogamesoundtrack specialists(how the fuck can you even brag about that?) go and listen to a soundtrack before playing the game or watching the movie(tho there are some exceptions if it includes someones favo artist)

But in the end no1 needs your reviews seeing as we all know wtf we are dloading/buying!!

Its sites like GH that actually made me aware of how great the FF8 ost was as i completely forgot it as i only played the game once and thus i ended up buying it after searching for the Esthar theme song(and even ended up replaying the game)

Well, that`s a jip.

i've never bought a bootleg in my life.

Then how did you get them so cheap?


And you assuming that by reviews people will go out and buy is arrogant you selfadoring whore.

Umm, no that isn't being arrogant. Try again?



The people who are most willing to buy them in the first place are people who are already familiar with the music seeing as its a soundtrack!!

That is most certainly false. For example, a lot of people bought the FFVII AC OST without downloading the movie. The same goes to a lot of VGM fans, which in most cases, aren't hard core gamers. They just like to listen to the music. So your argument is totally wrong here.



Only people who claim to be videogamesoundtrack specialists(how the fuck can you even brag about that?) go and listen to a soundtrack before playing the game or watching the movie (tho there are some exceptions if it includes someones favo artist)

How the fuck can you argue about something you don't even know much about. A LOT OF PEOPLE BUY THE OST BEFORE THE MOVIE / GAME IS RELEASED. Heh, even people on this very board download VGM that they have never heard, so once again, your arguement is rubbish (and the part about the favorite artist, you're just contridicting yourself)



But in the end no1 needs your reviews seeing as we all know wtf we are dloading/buying!!

A lot of people rely on reviews to make a decision about a purchase. I, and many others, have done it countless of times, reading the only trustworthy reviews (not ones written by FFVII AC fanboys who say "Bst ost eva1 65/10!!"). But how can you know what you're downloading, when it's the first time you have done so?


Its sites like GH that actually made me aware of how great the FF8 ost was as i completely forgot it as i only played the game once and thus i ended up buying it after searching for the Esthar theme song(and even ended up replaying the game)

Good for you.

And you assuming that by your reviews people will go out and buy is arrogant you selfadoring whore.
sorry i missed one word there mista vgmexperthttp://users.telenet.be/0611/stuff/101.gif
seems you got me on all points tho
so here
as a form of apoligy
http://have-a-cooky.ytmnd.com/

Trance Kuja: regardless of your opinions, you have to realize that you are in the vast, vast minority here in defending Square-Enix's legal scare tactics. numbers speak to corporations. period.


Could you please elaborate? How do you know this? Even if they put a bit of money into S-E's pocket, the downloader’s are taking, say, 3 times more away from their profit. I don't call that a rewarding experience.


How is that a poor decision on S-E's behalf? The VGM market exists only in Japan (with the exception of a few American OST releases). Their market is doing very well there, while there is no market overseas. So I doubt that the decision would even effect them financially or reputation-wise.

yay for contradictions ! you've outlined the main point but you're too dense to be cognizant of it: it doesn't cost square-enix money if they wouldn't have been purchased in the first place. (or, as you also have pointed out, if they would be purchased, but they ended up being bootlegs- which unfortunately is a sad reality of the current US market)

all the most active US/non-japanese based VGM communities have strong ties to downloads. many are actually active in the ripping scenes. in the cases where there's an official statement about "anti-piracy" it rarely has to do with their official stances, but in reality reflects they fact that most of these places run at a loss and cannot afford to risk legal matters.


S-E, and their respectable composers, can access anything as long as they own part of the copyright of the material. They can still forcibly remove your illegal MP3's, whether you like it or not. It's only a matter of time before such other places storing MP3s are caught out, though I am not surprised that this was caught so soon.

there are a lot of alternatives, many of which I intend on using. to name a few: ed2k hash identification links, torrents, links to other sites hosted outside of the US, or hell, even buying a server outside of the US and incorporating a business will all work.

what I think I'll probably do though is incorporate Galbadia Hotel and refuse to obey C&D's and see if they actually take things any further. most C&D's? scare tactics, nothing more. and I also believe that there's a huge, huge chance that we are on the legal side: if square-enix ticks me off enough, I might just fight them. =)

you can warmonger all you want, but the bottom line? there's no legal precident for VGM distribution in the US. there's a great chance it falls under fair use.

not to mention all the bad PR all of this could get them. we're the #1 final fantasy site on the net for a reason: I know how to get word out on the net.

we buy their products. their games, their merchandise, and yes, even their domestically available soundtracks on occasion ! if they want to tick us off, they're more than welcome to. but it's going to cost them.

sorry i missed one word there mista vgmexperthttp://users.telenet.be/0611/stuff/101.gif
seems you got me on all points tho
so here
as a form of apoligy
http://have-a-cooky.ytmnd.com/

I don't know know what your definition of arrogant is, but your in sentence: a) you're assuming things. How do you know that I am a reviewer? and b) I never even said anything you stated.


Trance Kuja: regardless of your opinions, you have to realize that you are in the vast, vast minority here in defending Square-Enix's legal scare tactics. numbers speak to corporations. period.

Yet, strangely, it's the vast minority that is winning the battle on illegal MP3's.


yay for contradictions ! you've outlined the main point but you're too dense to be cognizant of it: it doesn't cost square-enix money if they wouldn't have been purchased in the first place. (or, as you also have pointed out, if they would be purchased, but they ended up being bootlegs- which unfortunately is a sad reality of the current US market)

It seems as if this sentence is slightly confused.

If the Soundtracks weren't purchased, and instead, the person downloads the MP3s, then Square-Enix Looses profit, which is much needed for the future releases of OSTs, games. To sum up, purchasing the OST is not only a contribution to the future of the company, but a big rewarding experience for the buyer.


all the most active US/non-japanese based VGM communities have strong ties to downloads. many are actually active in the ripping scenes. in the cases where there's an official statement about "anti-piracy" it rarely has to do with their official stances, but in reality reflects they fact that most of these places run at a loss and cannot afford to risk legal matters.

Once again, I feel this sentence is slightly confused. Is it possible for you to reword it?


there are a lot of alternatives, many of which I intend on using. to name a few: ed2k hash identification links, torrents, links to other sites hosted outside of the US, or hell, even buying a server outside of the US and incorporating a business will all work.

And it's a sad reality that you are actually thinking and planning to do so. You aren't helping the VGM community. In fact, the only people that you are helping are S-E giving you more of a reason to shut you down. A small amount of Final Fantasy OSTs were available to the US with thanks to TokyoPop, but due to the magical wonders of MP3s, they don't print them anymore. So your attempts at bringing attention to S-E won't do much, if anything.


what I think I'll probably do though is incorporate Galbadia Hotel and refuse to obey C&D's and see if they actually take things any further. most C&D's? scare tactics, nothing more. and I also believe that there's a huge, huge chance that we are on the legal side: if square-enix ticks me off enough, I might just fight them.

Yeah right. You're willing to fight one of the largest game publishers in the world? Good Luck, missy. I dare you to try and disobey their Cease and Desist, because you're only leading to destruction. The whole point of a C&D is to show awareness of an offending problem and giving a chance to fix it before legal action is taken. How are you on the Legal side anyway? S-E Released their OSTs on iTunes to the US earlier this year, and, as far as I know, they are the only downloads which are considered legal. So you're statement is entirely false.


you can warmonger all you want, but the bottom line? there's no legal precident for VGM distribution in the US. there's a great chance it falls under fair use.

Then save and import from Japan and show S-E that you're keen on these OSTs to be released on American soil. By the way, what is a precident?


we're the #1 final fantasy site on the net for a reason: I know how to get word out on the net.

Though not the most respected or praised site, nor do you update regularly. You're spreading the word for the wrong reasons. And now you're saying that you won't comply with the guidelines of Galbadia Hotel, which were to remove any downloads from the site if the respected company would contact you. That's poor.

How are you on the Legal side anyway?

fair use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use), hun. get readin'.

you claiming to know the law but failing to understand what a legal precedent happens to be is hilarious.

donew/ukthx~

unless you were being a smartass about a typo. in which case you're also totally not worth my time.

Yet, strangely, it's the vast minority that is winning the battle on illegal MP3's.it's a completely different battle, jackass. most of the content on illegal mp3s is readily available to americans without having to go to lengths like importing. it also doesn't fall under fair use, as VGM music most likely does.




It seems as if this sentence is slightly confused.

If the Soundtracks weren't purchased, and instead, the person downloads the MP3s, then Square-Enix Looses profit, which is much needed for the future releases of OSTs, games. To sum up, purchasing the OST is not only a contribution to the future of the company, but a big rewarding experience for the buyer.

Ok, I'll try to explain this one more time. If someone from a country that Square does not release the OSTs to decides to download them, who loses money? NO ONE. If Square doesn't think they will turn a big enough profit releasing them, they don't make them available. If you're downloading something that isn't available for you to purchase, no one is losing money.

Also, if you think S-E is in dire need of money to be able to continue to afford releasing OSTs, you are greatly delusional. As you said yourself, they are not exactly a tiny company operating out of a basement. Stick to one set of facts, please.




Once again, I feel this sentence is slightly confused. Is it possible for you to reword it? I'll do it. VGM communities say they have an anti-piracy policy because they can't afford a legal battle. Was that so hard?




And it's a sad reality that you are actually thinking and planning to do so. You aren't helping the VGM community. In fact, the only people that you are helping are S-E giving you more of a reason to shut you down. A small amount of Final Fantasy OSTs were available to the US with thanks to TokyoPop, but due to the magical wonders of MP3s, they don't print them anymore. So your attempts at bringing attention to S-E won't do much, if anything. all the things sarah listed possibly doing are things square-enix can't do a damn thing about. are you even reading the posts?




Yeah right. You're willing to fight one of the largest game publishers in the world? Good Luck, missy. I dare you to try and disobey their Cease and Desist, because you're only leading to destruction. The whole point of a C&D is to show awareness of an offending problem and giving a chance to fix it before legal action is taken. How are you on the Legal side anyway? S-E Released their OSTs on iTunes to the US earlier this year, and, as far as I know, they are the only downloads which are considered legal. So you're statement is entirely false.

[05:28:16] ‹ @Sarah › I think I might incorporate GH for legal protection then put the soundtracks right back up and see if they try to lawsuit me ~~
[05:28:19] ‹ @Sarah › call their bluff
[05:28:30] ‹ +ashin › haha
[05:29:55] ‹ @Sarah › I honestly think I have more than sufficient legal reasoning to leave them up
[05:30:05] ‹ @Sarah › I just don't want to pay tens of thousands of dollars protecting myself
[05:30:10] ‹ +ashin › explain please
[05:30:22] ‹ @Sarah › short answer? fair use.
[05:30:37] ‹ +ashin › honestly
[05:30:40] ‹ +ashin › that doesnt tell me a damn thing
[05:30:43] ‹ @Sarah › fair use as it applies to video game music? absolutely NO legal precedent.
[05:30:44] ‹ +ashin › so how about a longer answer
[05:30:51] ‹ @Sarah › okay
[05:31:00] ‹ @Sarah › you're allowed to use copyrighted works provided
[05:31:32] ‹ @Sarah › 1) it's only a section of the copyrighted work- ie not the whole thing. soundtracks from games? NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE WHOLE THING (whole thing being the game !)
[05:32:08] ‹ @Sarah › 2) additional intellectual contributions are made via the person claiming fair use- I promote discussion of a small aspect of a commercial product

that sounds like solid reasoning to me




Then save and import from Japan and show S-E that you're keen on these OSTs to be released on American soil. By the way, what is a precident?
if you import from japan, what sort of message do you think you're sending.. if any at all? the only one i can think of is "our fans are willing to import, so why make a domestic release" but more likely is that S-E doesnt even see or care about the import numbers.

you claiming to know the law but failing to understand what a legal precedent happens to be is hilarious.

Heh, and how you think you're being ahead of the law is fucking hysterical. You don't understand it either, in fact, I bet you most people on the forum don't. So let's all just shut our mouths. But before we do, could you be so smart to provide reasoning of how your illegal MP3's are in conduct of 'fair use' and it's four rules?


it's a completely different battle, jackass.

Really? You must be pretty stupid in not seeing the link with the two very similar battles. It also shows what the power of a minority can do when it is in favor of a large corporation.


most of the content on illegal mp3s is readily available to americans without having to go to lengths like importing. it also doesn't fall under fair use, as VGM music most likely does

VGM is just like any other regular music, it does not fall in fair use. If it did, then why did S-E contact you demanding removal of the MP3s? Explain, Jackass.


Ok, I'll try to explain this one more time. If someone from a country that Square does not release the OSTs to decides to download them, who loses money? NO ONE. If Square doesn't think they will turn a big enough profit releasing them, they don't make them available. If you're downloading something that isn't available for you to purchase, no one is losing money.

And you're missing the point that S-E DID release the OSTs in America, thus, they are loosing money. Get the point, anal fucker?


Also, if you think S-E is in dire need of money to be able to continue to afford releasing OSTs, you are greatly delusional. As you said yourself, they are not exactly a tiny company operating out of a basement. Stick to one set of facts, please.

Hey, did you know that need money from sales in order to survive? If they kept on releasing OSTs that nobody bought because of downloading, their entire music section would be broke and be forced to shut down which, in case you didn't know, would be the end of production for OSTs by the company. Think logically, please.


I'll do it. VGM communities say they have an anti-piracy policy because they can't afford a legal battle. Was that so hard?

Well, try reading Sarah's post and then answer. Here's a fact: Most VGM communities don't even pirate OSTs. A VGM community is a place of discussion of Game Music, like Chudah's Corner and SquareSound. Places like gamemp3's aren't VGM communities. Please get your facts right.


are you even reading the posts?

Are you even reading the posts? I clearly stated that S-E released their OSTs in America, yet it was unquestionably obvious that you ignored, or worse, didn't it. And yes, I am reading the posts. Why else do you think I quoted so many issues, horse fucker?



[05:28:16] ‹ @Sarah › I think I might incorporate GH for legal protection then put the soundtracks right back up and see if they try to lawsuit me ~~
[05:28:19] ‹ @Sarah › call their bluff
[05:28:30] ‹ +ashin › haha
[05:29:55] ‹ @Sarah › I honestly think I have more than sufficient legal reasoning to leave them up
[05:30:05] ‹ @Sarah › I just don't want to pay tens of thousands of dollars protecting myself
[05:30:10] ‹ +ashin › explain please
[05:30:22] ‹ @Sarah › short answer? fair use.
[05:30:37] ‹ +ashin › honestly
[05:30:40] ‹ +ashin › that doesnt tell me a damn thing
[05:30:43] ‹ @Sarah › fair use as it applies to video game music? absolutely NO legal precedent.
[05:30:44] ‹ +ashin › so how about a longer answer
[05:30:51] ‹ @Sarah › okay
[05:31:00] ‹ @Sarah › you're allowed to use copyrighted works provided
[05:31:32] ‹ @Sarah › 1) it's only a section of the copyrighted work- ie not the whole thing. soundtracks from games? NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE WHOLE THING (whole thing being the game !)
[05:32:08] ‹ @Sarah › 2) additional intellectual contributions are made via the person claiming fair use- I promote discussion of a small aspect of a commercial product

that sounds like solid reasoning to me

Incorrect. The Soundtrack to a game is completely different than the game itself. By uploading a soundtrack without permission, you are breaking the law, and not even the protection of 'fair use' can save you because it doesn't fall under the category.

The only thing you're promoting is the further downloading of the OSTs.


if you import from japan, what sort of message do you think you're sending.. if any at all? the only one i can think of is "our fans are willing to import, so why make a domestic release" but more likely is that S-E doesnt even see or care about the import numbers.

Importing and popularity with the amount of people who Imported and owned official releases, united, formed the Final Fantasy soundtracks release on iTunes. Get it?

By uploading a soundtrack without permission, you are breaking the law, and not even the protection of 'fair use' can save you because it doesn't fall under the category.

that's for a judge to decide, not you.

I'm comfortable enough with my logic that I'd actually be willing to go to court over this. you, unfortunately, are in no position to do such. you could apply to help square-enix's legal team, but you know, knowing absolutely nothing about the law might hinder that goal just a tad.

you're an arrogant ass that has virtually no grasp on the legal circumstances surrounding this sort of thing. dumb I can forgive. dumb + arrogant? nononono.

you're like loki reborn to wage war on the free exchange of information. it's really pretty hilarious.

that's for a judge to decide, not you.

I'm comfortable enough with my logic that I'd actually be willing to go to court over this. you, unfortunately, are in no position to do such. you could apply to help square-enix's legal team, but you know, knowing absolutely nothing about the law might hinder that goal just a tad.

I know more about the law than you do, and the fact that my whole family is musical (them being in the music industry) and know these issues, really gives me the upper edge on you. You're acting like a mentally retarded bitch that is willing to put her entire fortune on the line for a cause which is totally enigmatic.



you're an arrogant ass that has virtually no grasp on the legal circumstances surrounding this sort of thing. dumb I can forgive. dumb + arrogant? nononono.

See, you can't argue against anything because I have made all the correct points. You're just a dumb admin, and that is truly unfortunate.


you're like loki reborn to wage war on the free exchange of information. it's really pretty hilarious.

Please, argue with me when you have found some more interesting ideas, because at this time, you're running dry.

you totally ignore everything we say so there's no point in arguing with you.

for example:


You're acting like a mentally retarded bitch that is willing to put her entire fortune on the line for a cause which is totally enigmatic.

if you understood anything about the law, you'd understand that I don't need to put my fortune on the line. I'd incorporate GH so its a legal entity seperate from myself. if it comes to it, they could potentially try to get money from GH, yes. but the whole point of said incorporation is to give me legal protection. ie, to protect my money.

there's no point in debating with someone that can't even understand your counterpoints.

if your goal is to change the fact that I intend on doing everything I can to distribute soundtracks via Galbadia Hotel (even square-enix's !), you're wasting your e-breath.

if you understood anything about the law, you'd understand that I don't need to put my fortune on the line. I'd incorporate GH so its a legal entity seperate from myself. if it comes to it, they could potentially try to get money from GH, yes. but the whole point of said incorporation is to give me legal protection. ie, to protect my money.

So why would you want legal protection if you think what you're doing is legal?


there's no point in debating with someone that can't even understand your counterpoints.

Hmm, sounds familiar...



if your goal is to change the fact that I intend on doing everything I can to distribute soundtracks via Galbadia Hotel (even square-enix's !), you're wasting your e-breath.

Well my complaint to S-E removed your FF OSTs, didn't it? I can go a whole lot further, being in touch with the company itself...

So why would you want legal protection if you think what you're doing is legal?

because they have more money, and therefor better lawyers, and occasionally and unfortunately money matters more than being on the right side of the law. as I said before.


Well my complaint to S-E removed your FF OSTs, didn't it? I can go a whole lot further, being in touch with the company itself...

... haha. no, it was not you. square-enix visited the site within days of it coming up.

because they have more money, and therefor better lawyers, and occasionally and unfortunately money matters more than being on the right side of the law. as I said before.

Then why the arguement on how you think it is legal, when S-E is likely to sue for doing the wrong thing?


... haha. no, it was not you. square-enix visited the site within days of it coming up.

And I contacted the site within the days. Here's what I said:


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob
Sent: Sep 9, 2005 4:04:14 PM
Subject: When you were offline (via LivePerson)

Hello Square-Enix,

I have came across a site where they are pirating your Original Soundtracks and
other companies OSTs. The site is http://gh.ffshrine.org

Please take the right action :)


Here's what they said:


Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Customer Support,

We appreciate your concern and this information has been forwarded.

Thanks,
Square Enix Customer Support
www.square-enix.com

that is what you call a form mail.

ie what you get when no one is listening but they're trying to be polite.


And I contacted the site within the days.

no, no you didn't. not only was I in negotiations with SE long before you started your war-mongering on the forums, but your IP also isn't shown on the site once during the initial month or so that the site was up.

oh god. you thinking you have SUPER CONNECTIONS with square-enix because you recieved a form-mail is about the funniest thing yet. keep it coming !

that is what you call a form mail.

ie what you get when no one is listening but they're trying to be polite.

Then how are they going to listen to your plea of wanting VGM soundtracks to be released in America? Explain?




no, no you didn't. not only was I in negotiations with SE long before you started your war-mongering on the forums, but your IP also isn't shown on the site once during the initial month or so that the site was up.

Oh good. S-E knows what they are doing then. I can officially call them smart now, and you very dumb.


oh god. you thinking you have SUPER CONNECTIONS with square-enix because you recieved a form-mail is about the funniest thing yet. keep it coming !

You see, the thing I said before was a scare tactic. S-E is not doing that to you, but the real thing.

doing what to me

what the hell are you on

get off my internet I'm done w/ you

doing what to me

They aren't presenting a scare tactic with hollow meaning. S-E is a very serious company, and the idea of them toying with you is absurd


what the hell are you on

Water and food


get off my internet I'm done w/ you

How is it your internet?

I emailed square-enix telling them that if they wish to resign the internet over to me, they should respond with "Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Customer Support."

...

AND THEY DID.

I emailed square-enix telling them that if they wish to resign the internet over to me, they should respond with "Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Customer Support."

...

AND THEY DID.

....

Lock this thread already

how about I lock your face instead

how about I lock your face instead

Good one. Where did you learn to be so funny?

from square-enix. I emailed them requesting that they instill in me the comedic genius of the gods, and if they wish to grant my modest request, they should let my mortal self know by replying with "Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Customer Support."

...

AND THEY DID.

LOCK THIS THREAD!

LOCK YOUR MOM'S VAGINA.

LOCK YOUR MOM'S VAGINA.

LOCK YOUR ASS

HIS MOTHERUNIT'S VAGINAL CANAL IS UNLOCKABLE, SIR

RETREAT

RETREAT

MAY THE SQUARE-ENIX GODS HAVE MERCY ON OUR SOULS

HIS MOTHERUNIT'S VAGINAL CANAL IS UNLOCKABLE, SIR

RETREAT

RETREAT

MAY THE SQUARE-ENIX GODS HAVE MERCY ON OUR SOULS

LOCK THIS THREAD! LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK

edit my an admin: don't shit things up thx np

Thanks,
Square Enix Customer Support
www.square-enix.com

Trace Kuja, i actually signed up to tell you to stop being a bloody dick. The mp3s have already been taken off, just calm the hell down and stop nagging.
If you really did tell Square-enix about them then you are sad, but since you are only 14 as you have said, i guess its quite understandable for a child to whine.
Galbadia Hotel have done an excellent job by letting fans download the music they love. They have allowed me and many other fans to relive memorable parts of FF by allowing us to download music that is very very hard to get.
I am sad to see the mp3s go, but it had to be done seeing as we have little Trance Kuja to thank for.
Anyhow, hate me if you will, i am just stating my opinion. HAHA

edit: oh and stop swearing at Sarah, it is EXTREMELLY disrespectful

we don't hate you <3

Trace Kuja, i actually signed up to tell you to stop being a bloody dick. The mp3s have already been taken off, just calm the hell down and stop nagging.

Guess what? The argument has finished. Read the posts before replying.


If you really did tell Square-enix about them then you are sad, but since you are only 14 as you have said, i guess its quite understandable for a child to whine.

How old are you? I'm guessing 8 because of your bad spelling and such. And how am I sad? It was strange that they placed them on HTML on the first place, seeing that it was just asking for trouble. Also, how am I whining?


Galbadia Hotel have done an excellent job by letting fans download the music they love. They have allowed me and many other fans to relive memorable parts of FF by allowing us to download music that is very very hard to get.

If you think it's hard to get, then you're not looking hard enough because FF MP3's are ALL OVER THE WEB! If you love it so much, be legal and buy the music!


I am sad to see the mp3s go, but it had to be done seeing as we have little Trance Kuja to thank for.

Read the posts please, and I'm flattered


Anyhow, hate me if you will, i am just stating my opinion. HAHA

I don't hate you, though I think you're immature

though I think you're immature

as we do you, lovenugget.


It was strange that they placed them on HTML on the first place, seeing that it was just asking for trouble.

haha. you sure are an interweb master.

as we do you, lovenugget.

How am I being immature?



haha. you sure are an interweb master.

Exactly ;-)

Guess what? The argument has finished. Read the posts before replying.

huh!? but...the thread is still open...so the argument is not finished? besides, no once officially announced that it is over so...yeh...haha

Exactly ;-)

Let me introduce you to a new concept called Sarcasm.

huh!? but...the thread is still open...so the argument is not finished? besides, no once officially announced that it is over so...yeh...haha

The argument was finished, and then you entered. Plus, I quote Sarah's post:


get off my internet I'm done w/ you

Happy?


Let me introduce you to a new concept called Sarcasm.

Umm...Thanks?

Guess what? The argument has finished. Read the posts before replying.

But the thread is still open mate, so the argument is very much alive, and also no one said it was "finished" so i guess i have a right to argue.


How old are you? I'm guessing 8 because of your bad spelling and such. And how am I sad? It was strange that they placed them on HTML on the first place, seeing that it was just asking for trouble. Also, how am I whining?

Oh yes, hit me where it hurts, my spelling errors. They are called typo errors mate.



If you think it's hard to get, then you're not looking hard enough because FF MP3's are ALL OVER THE WEB! If you love it so much, be legal and buy the music!

I have tried to buy them, but you see, not all of us are fortunate enough to have a credit card, and also people like me live in odd places and alot of companies do not ship their stock here.


Read the posts please, and I'm flattered

...i have...and you said you mailed S E telling them about Galbadia Hotel...that is why i said what i said.


I don't hate you, though I think you're immature

Why? Justify this please

But the thread is still open mate, so the argument is very much alive, and also no one said it was "finished" so i guess i have a right to argue.

Most forum arguments don't end with someone saying "Finished." Before you entered, Sarah and I had our quarrel, and all was at rest. It was finished, get it? Obviously not.



Oh yes, hit me where it hurts, my spelling errors. They are called typo errors mate.

You're smart, though I don't even remember saying 'spelling errors.' Maybe you should read through your post before you submit?



I have tried to buy them, but you see, not all of us are fortunate enough to have a credit card, and also people like me live in odd places and alot of companies do not ship their stock here.

I live in an odd place. I don't have a credit card, and you import the Soundtracks from overseas.



...i have...and you said you mailed S E telling them about Galbadia Hotel...that is why i said what i said.


No, Sarah said that S-E had actually shut down the site from their own will and not by request of me, even though I sent a mail tipping off the site.



Why? Justify this please

Because a) you're restarting an argument which should have ended hours ago; and b) you're stating the obvious.

Most forum arguments don't end with someone saying "Finished." Before you entered, Sarah and I had our quarrel, and all was at rest. It was finished, get it? Obviously not.




You're smart, though I don't even remember saying 'spelling errors.' Maybe you should read through your post before you submit?




I live in an odd place. I don't have a credit card, and you import the Soundtracks from overseas.





No, Sarah said that S-E had actually shut down the site from their own will and not by request of me, even though I sent a mail tipping off the site.




Because a) you're restarting an argument which should have ended hours ago; and b) you're stating the obvious.my god what a self-righteous little prick

Trance Kuja: future posts of yours in this thread will be deleted, as you're just adding shit to it.

everyone else: don't reply to his junk please.

Most forum arguments don't end with someone saying "Finished." Before you entered, Sarah and I had our quarrel, and all was at rest. It was finished, get it? Obviously not.

I know that boy


You're smart, though I don't even remember saying 'spelling errors.' Maybe you should read through your post before you submit?

No you did not, but you hinted it by saying "bad spelling". You see, different people percieve things differently when they are said, so even though you may have meant something else, i figured you were talking about my spelling erros, which is the logical way to percieve what you said.


I live in an odd place. I don't have a credit card, and you import the Soundtracks from overseas.

You are one of the few lucky ones



Because a) you're restarting an argument which should have ended hours ago; and b) you're stating the obvious.

Nay boy, i am not restarting it, i am just stating my opinion on the matter at hand, though it is a little bit late, i must admit.


No, Sarah said that S-E had actually shut down the site from their own will and not by request of me, even though I sent a mail tipping off the site.

You still sent that mail, and if circumstances where different, S E would have received it and shut down the site. I understand that you saw the mp3s as being wrong, but what i do not understand is why you tried to deprive other people from downloading it by sending that mail.

edit: Oh ok then i wont.

everyone else: don't reply to his junk please.

If it's Square-Enix... why didn't they ask you to remove the other Square-Enix soundtracks like kingdom heart, Dragon Quest etc.....?

If only there are FF original soundtracks in my country i'd rather to purchase it than download it... so I really want to say thank you very much for your contribution in sharing FF musics... Thank you! ^^

If only there are FF original soundtracks in my country i'd rather to purchase it than download it

I would have done the same, i would have been honoured to have the originals on my shelf. It makes me sad that the downloads were taken off GH, i am glad i got as much as i could with my good old dial up.

Thank you GH for the FF ost's, they were really great.

Trance Kuja: future posts of yours in this thread will be deleted, as you're just adding shit to it.

everyone else: don't reply to his junk please.

First of all, let me say that I take the term "adding shit" to mean bad grammar, incorrect statements, spam, and use of false statements in a poor attempt to win an argument. Let's face it Sarah, you didn't get 6,800 posts without spamming. ;) Oh, and reading through your posts, you apply to much of the above to.

I read through this thread in amazement, as you really are a bunch of idiots/ Why on earth would Square Enix want you to put up a pirated copy of their newest soundtrack on your site? As trance said, that isn't really a very rewarding experience. Maybe you guys should take your head out of your asses and get a grip for once.

Another thing that came up in this thread was the fact that reviews don't make people buy albums. Well, sorry guys, but they really do. I guess that you are all to arrogant to realise that you don't know anything about the VGM world in reality, and that all this website is, is a retard asylum. Sarah, all you are is a failure, in all honesty. You have provided entertainment however, for example, it was great to see you squirm (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=523362&postcount=27) right there.

I've compiled a collection of your quotes, maybe they will be posted on eBaums world? They have quite a lot of funny junk there:



no, no you didn't. not only was I in negotiations with SE long before you started your war-mongering on the forums, but your IP also isn't shown on the site once during the initial month or so that the site was up.

doing what to me

what the hell are you on

get off my internet I'm done w/ you

AND THEY DID.

how about I lock your face instead


HIS MOTHERUNIT'S VAGINAL CANAL IS UNLOCKABLE, SIR

This coming from a nerd that has spots, a beer belly, facial hair, is 2000 tonnes and looks like the backside of a cow. In all honesty, we couldn't even find yours.

Next time, if you want to win an argument, get good facts, and maybe try to pick on somebody who doesn't know about 10 times more than you about the VGM world? Or will COPPA regulations mean that they can't post? I

First of all, let me say that I take the term "adding shit" to mean bad grammar, incorrect statements, spam, and use of false statements in a poor attempt to win an argument. Let's face it Sarah, you didn't get 6,800 posts without spamming. ;) Oh, and reading through your posts, you apply to much of the above to.

I read through this thread in amazement, as you really are a bunch of idiots/ Why on earth would Square Enix want you to put up a pirated copy of their newest soundtrack on your site? As trance said, that isn't really a very rewarding experience. Maybe you guys should take your head out of your asses and get a grip for once.

Another thing that came up in this thread was the fact that reviews don't make people buy albums. Well, sorry guys, but they really do. I guess that you are all to arrogant to realise that you don't know anything about the VGM world in reality, and that all this website is, is a retard asylum. Sarah, all you are is a failure, in all honesty. You have provided entertainment however, for example, it was great to see you squirm (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=523362&postcount=27) right there.

I've compiled a collection of your quotes, maybe they will be posted on eBaums world? They have quite a lot of funny junk there:








This coming from a nerd that has spots, a beer belly, facial hair, is 2000 tonnes and looks like the backside of a cow. In all honesty, we couldn't even find yours.

Next time, if you want to win an argument, get good facts, and maybe try to pick on somebody who doesn't know about 10 times more than you about the VGM world? Or will COPPA regulations mean that they can't post? Iwait.. you do realize it's taken sarah 4 years to accumulate that many posts right? that's not really a lot of posts.

i dont see what you're trying to prove with this posts. personal attacks just show that you don't have anything better to try to win the argument with.

you've compared me to a cow

oh, the humanity originality !

i dont see what you're trying to prove with this posts. personal attacks just show that you don't have anything better to try to win the argument with.

Maybe you should read the post instead of guessing what it means?

you've compared me to a cow

oh, the humanity originality !

I also compared to a nerd that has spots, a beer belly, facial hair, and is 2000 tonnes. Is that any better?

Oh, and ashin, like Trance said, read the post. :| Plus 6,800 posts = spam spam spam :)

I was frankly shocked that trance kuja wasn't actually self-aclaimed captain of awesome grey one.

so now I'm just convinced he irked one of his friends to post ~


Oh, and ashin, like Trance said, read the post. :| Plus 6,800 posts = spam spam spam

we not only allow spam here, we encourage it as long as it's amusing. you and your friend? well, you leave a bit to be desired.

any more shit posts made in this thread by either of you will be deleted.

to much of the above to.


... what?

Wow, 7,572 posts? Brilliant. :D Don't have a girlfirend? Sarah, why do you have to delete posts? Just because you can't win? Man, how retarde are you? Your post tactic is quite inspirational, maybe you should be a pre-school teacher?

Total Posts: 7,572 (5.50 posts per day)


you do realize that takes maybe 5-10 minutes a day. please find something better than post counts to insult.

Sarah, why dont you just ban these fucks.
Please?

wait wait


This coming from a nerd that has spots, a beer belly, facial hair, is 2000 tonnes and looks like the backside of a cow. In all honesty, we couldn't even find yours.

I think he implied he wouldn't be able to find my vagina?

and:


... maybe you should be a pre-school teacher?

... maybe we should treat these kids with more respect. they seem to be psychic !


Don't have a girlfirend? Sarah, why do you have to delete posts?

because you're not amusing and certainly not insightful at this point. I'm deleting your posts so my users don't have to wade through your shit that's neither interesting nor funny.

keep on posting in this thread and I'm going to give out temporary bans, by the way.

At the end of the day guys, me and Trance are right. Maybe you want to take this argument to a respected forum, like GFF, SSF, and many others? You will be going dooown. As far as your mum goes down on the postman, in fact.

... and GFF isn't guilty of piracy? haha.

Wow, 7,572 posts? Brilliant. :D

< ashin > 7000 posts is not much for an account thats been around since december 2001 =/


Don't have a girlfirend?

Don't infer things about my personal life from my post count. It's quite silly. Also, it's pretty obvious that you don't know what you're talking about and are trying to convince us otherwise by being really arrogant and using "retard" a lot.

look just because duo experimented with poppers doesn't mean he doesn't have a girlfriend okay I swear

at least you've changed gears now that you've realized insulting post counts really doesnt work. i post more than duo does =/



ps gff offers more downloads then ffshrine

hey grey one - more like *GAY* one!

ohh, didn't like the burnzing off that, did you kiddy? too bad try again next time when you're not retarded.

wow...you mean to tell me that spam is actually allowed on this forum?
This is the first one i have ever joined that allows spam...

Any account created just to come weep about shit he doesnt even know enough about to realise this site is only helping should get deleted.

Only one person that isnt getting any respect here and thats you :]

wow...you mean to tell me that spam is actually allowed on this forum?
This is the first one i have ever joined that allows spam...

we tend to keep it to general discussion, but yes, it's allowed !

ps you would make a great addition to the oui barbie? topic ^^

added for lol's:

vyvyan> haha. this guy is so funny, he thinks he got SE on your arse. <3~
Duo> yeah, THEY REPLIED TO ME. "Square Enix is concerned about whatever it is you e-mailed us about." i mean wtp ;(

trance: enough. if you want to start a thread about ethics & the vgm community, do so. the place for it is not in this thread.

we tend to keep it to general discussion, but yes, it's allowed !

ps you would make a great addition to the oui barbie? topic ^^

That is actually pretty cool, that means if people accidently spam, they do not have to worry about Admins getting up their arse.
What is the oui barbie topic? ...actually, dont worry, i will go check myself.

That is so stupid. Do American CDs work on english cd players

cd's arent region encoded ^^

Thank Goodness :angel:

Does anyone know of any other sites that offer Final Fantasy mp3's?

people still serve them in the chat. that and bluelaguna.net I guess.

filefront.com offers them but they are in zip format. They have pretty much every FF ost and piano collection for download. They are just hard to find, am i allowed to post the exact link for the zip files for the site here or is that not allowed?

What i am looking for is the Song book Mahoraba or something. I believe it is the 3rd vocal collection. I cant find it anywhere.

fair use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use), hun. get readin'.

you claiming to know the law but failing to understand what a legal precedent happens to be is hilarious.

donew/ukthx~

unless you were being a smartass about a typo. in which case you're also totally not worth my time.

I'll chime in. Note that what I'm about to say is largely technical, so you can skip to the end of the post if you just want the executive summary. I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice -- but I am a law student, so you might want to read it.

1. While content produced in Japan may not be licensed for distribution in the US, it is still protected by copyright. Both the U.S. and Japan are signatories of the Berne Convention. Under that treaty, any creative work fixed in a permanent format is protected by copyright law in all the countries that signed the treaty. Whether that work has been licensed to a third party for distribution, or is being distributed in a given market, is irrelevant.

Example: A Japanese company creates an anime series and shows it only in Japan. The work is protected by copyright law in most countries, including the U.S., meaning that the Japanese company has the exclusive right of duplication and distribution for that anime series. If the Japanese company decides not to sell the product in the U.S., that does not allow a U.S. company (or Taiwanese company, for that matter) to resell the product without being licensed by the Japanese company.

2. The unauthorized use of a copyrighted work is copyright infringement. It doesn't get any more simple than that. If you don't have permission to use, distribute, or sneeze on the work, you're infringing.

Example: A Japanese company creates an anime series and shows it only in Japan. A Taiwanese company gets a copy of the series and sells it in the United States. The Taiwanese company is committing copyright infringement.

Example 2: A person buys a CD at a store and rips the tracks to his/her computer. By making a digital copy of the music, that person has committed copyright infringement.

3. To complicate things a little bit, there are different types of infringement and those types vary by country. In the U.S., there are three types: direct, contributory, and vicarious. Direct copyright infringement is when you distribute someone else's copyrighted work. Contributory infringement happens when you knowingly receive the copyrighted work from an unauthorized distributor. Vicarious infringement, the least common, happens when a third party benefits indirectly from the infringement process. Canada does not have contributory copyright infringement, because it is technically legal there to download copyrighted material from any source. Your country's laws may vary, but most countries have a law about direct copyright infringement.

Example: Person A buys a CD at a store and rips the tracks to his/her computer. Person A then gives a copy of those digital files to person B by using a courier service owned by person C. Person A has committed direct copyright infringement twice, first by ripping the files and then by giving a copy to person B. Person B has committed contributory copyright infringement by receiving the files. Finally, person C may have committed vicarious copyright infringement, but only if he or she knew what was going on.

4. Under U.S. law, fair use is an affirmative defense to copyright infringement. That's the law part; then there is precedent. Legal cases have established four criteria for proving fair use, and all four must be evaluated as part of a fair use defense:
[1] The Transformative Factor. Has the material been added to or modified? If it has, it is considered a "derivative work" but it is also more likely to be considered fair use.
[2] The Nature of the Copyrighted Work. Is the original work factual like a biography, or a creative work like a song? Creative works are given more protection, while spreading facts is seen to be a public benefit.
[3] The Amount Used. Is the entire song/video copied, or just five seconds?
[4] The Effect of the Use on the Potential Market. Does the copying increase, decrease, or have no effect on the potential market for the original work? (This is usually the biggest factor that judges consider.)

Example: Stupid Company sues persons A, B, and C for the events in #3. Person A committed infringement twice, B once, and C possibly once. Person A's first infringement is likely fair use, because it does not affect the market for the original work when he/she copies the CD for personal use. However, person A's second infringement is not fair use, because it represents a lost potential sale for Stupid Company. Person B thus committed contributory infringement by receiving the work. If person C knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it, then they can also be sued. If Stupid Company can't prove that person C knew what was going on, though, that part of their lawsuit would be dismissed.

5. Applying the above rules to specific situations is where things get tricky. Here, FFShrine is providing the soundtracks to other people out of the goodness of their hearts. Running through the fair use criteria, we get:
[1] transformative: no. (not in FFShrine's favor)
[2] nature of the work: creative. (not in FFShrine's favor)
[3] amount of the work: all (not in FFShrine's favor)
[4] effect on the market: UNKNOWN. This is both the most complex factor and the one with the biggest impact, which makes things dangerous for both sides in a legal battle. In FFShrine's favor is that they are not making money off the infringement, so they can be said to be "promoting" the work and increasing the market. Also in favor of FFShrine is Square's near-total lack of attempts to enter the U.S. market for soundtracks. However, the songs can be downloaded and played according to the user's wishes, which represents potential lost sales and decreases the market -- obviously, in favor of Square.

It's a murky situation. Only a judge could really decide whether FFShrine's distribution can be characterized as fair use, but either way, FFShrine is committing copyright infringement.

Personally, I think Square and other game companies need to fire all of their upper management. Their executives are sitting on their collective ass and ignoring a potentially huge 'otaku' merchandise market in the U.S., but at the same time they're stopping others from distributing that merchandise while not providing any reasonable alternative to infringement. Only total idiots would allow competitors to sell knockoffs (e.g. EverAnime) rather than entering the market themselves.

Legally, it's a toss-up. Ethically, I support FFShrine. I feel that it is just fine to download soundtracks, even complete ones, when the company is not selling it locally (or is not doing new pressings, or other situations where it is unavailable through normal retail channels.) I also feel, however, that users should make a good-faith effort to purchase those soundtracks if and when they become available, and most importantly, to buy them from the real copyright owner and not some nondescript Asian knockoff label.

$0.02 is your change. ~

I'm not starting up an argument, but I just want to say thank you to medeii for stating my points in a more understandable law point-of-view.


trance: enough. if you want to start a thread about ethics & the vgm community, do so. the place for it is not in this thread.

Hey, I'm not the one who is provoking all of this :P You have to take responsibility too, as with other members

I'm not starting up an argument, but I just want to say thank you to medeii for stating my points in a more understandable law point-of-view.

Actually, my post doesn't support your point of view. Nor sarah's. I'm somewhere in the middle, because although this is certainly copyright infringement, I personally believe that GH is engaging in fair use.

My sympathies lie entirely with her, though. If you'd like my support, you'd need to stop using disingenuous phrases like "illegal mp3s". There's no such thing, and it makes you sound like an RIAA parrot.

My sympathies lie entirely with her, though. If you'd like my support, you'd need to stop using disingenuous phrases like "illegal mp3s". There's no such thing, and it makes you sound like an RIAA parrot.

There is no such phrase called 'illegal MP3s'? Then how is there such a thing called 'legal MP3s'? I'm simply just stating my points of view and they happen to be quite harsh.

Also, as you said:


5. Applying the above rules to specific situations is where things get tricky. Here, FFShrine is providing the soundtracks to other people out of the goodness of their hearts. Running through the fair use criteria, we get:
[1] transformative: no. (not in FFShrine's favor)
[2] nature of the work: creative. (not in FFShrine's favor)
[3] amount of the work: all (not in FFShrine's favor)
[4] effect on the market: UNKNOWN. This is both the most complex factor and the one with the biggest impact, which makes things dangerous for both sides in a legal battle. In FFShrine's favor is that they are not making money off the infringement, so they can be said to be "promoting" the work and increasing the market. Also in favor of FFShrine is Square's near-total lack of attempts to enter the U.S. market for soundtracks. However, the songs can be downloaded and played according to the user's wishes, which represents potential lost sales and decreases the market -- obviously, in favor of Square.

Point 4 isn't in FFShrine's favor, because it does have an effect on the market, preventing the sales of the OSTs released in America.

Trance Kuja, I would like to declare my intent to post, at a later time *as I got work now rite now,* to refute, argue, or w/e your claims/viewpoint/etc.

There is no such phrase called 'illegal MP3s'? Then how is there such a thing called 'legal MP3s'? I'm simply just stating my points of view and they happen to be quite harsh.

Stop misquoting me. I never said that there was "no such phrase;" rather, that your use of it was disingenuous -- misleading, in other words. You're welcome to your points of view, extreme as they are, but don't expect me or others to silently stand by while you spout tripe.

My objection to your use of the phrase is based solely on your misunderstanding of its meaning. There are legal MP3s, and illegal MP3s, but the legality is not tied to the file format. An .ogg file can be just as "illegal" as a .mp3, or just as legal. It is the use -- the nuanced and complicated series of tests I mentioned before -- that determines the "legality" of a given file.

That use must be objectively discerned, but neither you nor I are qualified to do that. That is for a judge to do. What we -are- qualified to do is make intelligent posts about the arguments for or against those fair use criteria. You've not done that.


Point 4 isn't in FFShrine's favor, because it does have an effect on the market, preventing the sales of the OSTs released in America.

You obviously didn't read my previous post completely. I recommend you re-read it before you post again.

Some things and/or observations I would like to drop and/or mention *Please note I am not nor do I plan to argue the legality of downloading VGM as I believe there are too many things to take into account when deciding that issue*

#1: Sites like gamemp3s are in fact "game communities." To use your def. of game communities, at gamemp3s, through their forms, discussion of game music takes place.

#2: Importing from OSTs Japan, techincally is a violation of copyright as it goes up again a company's right to control distribution. So if some people here really hated your guts, they can report you and BAM! you'll be facing legal action.

#3: You lost all face when you pretended to be the person responsible for getting the OSTs off the site, even more so when you had to reproduce the email you alledgedly sent to SquareEnix. This just really shows you're an immature and conceited 14 year-old, which is to be expected from someone young.

#4 Video Game Music is not like "regular music." Some examples of this self-evident concept are the lack of radio play, lack of mentioning on the Grammays, MTV Music Awards and other such programs, and lack of appearance in music stores.

#5: To call out someone's spelling errors *or as you call it "bad spelling"* is really childish, more so if you then proceed to use that as an basis for an insult. I mean come one, do you always spell correctly? Again this just reveals your inmature *read childish* nature.

#6: If you really are out to be S-E's self-appointed "guardian angel" and report to them every single site that has FF music for download...well lad you are quite frankly out of your mind. With regards to the Internet, downloadable FF music is like porn....as IT IS EVERYWHERE!!! I wonder why you had to start with this site? *Your earlier posts suggest you had it in for this site, for reasons I do not know*

#7: In your "email" that you sent to S-E you wrote that this site is pirating their soundtracks and other companies OSTs. You then proceed to call on them to take the right action, with a smile at the end. My question is, and I'm being quite serious, are you S-E's bitch, bastard child or something the like? S-E is does not have any right what-so-ever to ask GH to take down OSTs that are not theirs. Now before you post well they can inform other companies about the infringment of copyrights, let me just state something: NOT ALL THE OSTS ON THIS SITE ARE "PIRATED" NOR VIOLATE COPYRIGHTS!!! I mainly point to the PC OSTS that this site has to back up my claim.

#8 No One will be ever to control privacy, as there will always be new sites popping up. With this said, one should take into account that this site at least conforms with the wishes of copyright holders, despite if they feel if it is wrong. Furthermore, at least this site has a legit mission statement...unlike other sites that just present you with material to download & completely disregard copyrights.

#9 The heads of S-E must be on drugs. Like medeii, I find it really idiotic that they have not tapped into the US market. *But they may have a contract requirment that prevents them from doing so*

#10: Those of us who listen to Video Game Music and who are also outraged at actions like or simliar to S-E's *or not* should form a Political Action Committee or an organization and call it something like the International Assoication of Video Game Music Listerners *IAVGML*. That way we can lobby for things, like the creation of markets in the US for VGM.

That's My 2 Cents.

I appreciate you guys joining. I don't mind discussing this stuff at all, as long as it's in a reasonable fashion (ie not the way the banned guy was doin').


[1] transformative: no. (not in FFShrine's favor)
[2] nature of the work: creative. (not in FFShrine's favor)
[3] amount of the work: all (not in FFShrine's favor)
[4] effect on the market: UNKNOWN. This is both the most complex factor and the one with the biggest impact, which makes things dangerous for both sides in a legal battle. In FFShrine's favor is that they are not making money off the infringement, so they can be said to be "promoting" the work and increasing the market. Also in favor of FFShrine is Square's near-total lack of attempts to enter the U.S. market for soundtracks. However, the songs can be downloaded and played according to the user's wishes, which represents potential lost sales and decreases the market -- obviously, in favor of Square.

I have to disagree with this, though. transformative is debatable, as is the amount of the work. nature of the work, yes, I agree, is absolutely in their favor. effect on the market, however, is what I feel really justifies all this- legally and ethically.


Point 4 isn't in FFShrine's favor, because it does have an effect on the market, preventing the sales of the OSTs released in America.

you're incredibly naive if you really believe it's this simple.

I appreciate you guys joining. I don't mind discussing this stuff at all, as long as it's in a reasonable fashion (ie not the way the banned guy was doin').

I have to disagree with this, though. transformative is debatable, as is the amount of the work. nature of the work, yes, I agree, is absolutely in their favor. effect on the market, however, is what I feel really justifies all this- legally and ethically.

you're incredibly naive if you really believe it's this simple.

I agree with Sarah, number #4 really is in FFshrine's favor as one would say "what market?" (as there is clearly no market at all in the US).

Now as for number 1, it could possibly fall in FFshrine's favor if one argued that having these songs in .mp3 format counts as being "derivative works" since they weren't in the format to being with *read they were modified*.

As for Trance Kuja's reasoning why #4 falls in favor of S-E, all I have to say is this *I'm sorry folks but that line of reasoning truly deserves the below treatment*...
TRANCE KUJA LOL

I have to disagree with this, though. transformative is debatable, as is the amount of the work. nature of the work, yes, I agree, is absolutely in their favor. effect on the market, however, is what I feel really justifies all this- legally and ethically.

Transformative: FFShrine has converted the song into a different format but from the listener's perspective there has been no change. Precedent suggests that this is not considered sufficiently transformative in the way that an artist painting from a photograph would be transforming the work.

Amount of the work: each song counts as one copyrighted work. If you're reproducing the entirety of each song, then that's the full thing.


I agree with Sarah, number #4 really is in FFshrine's favor as one would say "what market?" (as there is clearly no market at all in the US).

They've started by putting some soundtracks on the iTunes Music Store, but their efforts are still pathetic. Where, for example, is the Final Fantasy 4 Minimum Album?

Transformative: FFShrine has converted the song into a different format but from the listener's perspective there has been no change. Precedent suggests that this is not considered sufficiently transformative in the way that an artist painting from a photograph would be transforming the work.

Amount of the work: each song counts as one copyrighted work. If you're reproducing the entirety of each song, then that's the full thing.

They've started by putting some soundtracks on the iTunes Music Store, but their efforts are still pathetic. Where, for example, is the Final Fantasy 4 Minimum Album?

What would help FFShrine out, with regards to #1, is if someone found an actual quote or something from Nobuo Uematsu saying that he did not mind people modifying his work (as FFShrine could use Creator's Rights against S-E). But I doubt that someone can find such a quote. (Perhaps, you can use the fact that he nor S-E has gone after DJP's site or Virt's site in place of a quote. DJP's site has appeared in some promiment magazines and websites)

As for the itunes thing, I think it is common-knowledge that it has made a shit load of money for Apple and the recording companies *cause Steve Jobs knows how to market music, whereas the idiotic record companies don't* Therefore since S-E is a public company, with shareholders to appease, they did it to join the profit bandwagon *which companies regardless of private or public always seek out*. Also not many people have a IPod to begin with. The last stats I saw were that about 5 million Americans had one. Therefore I do not really see the itunes as an acceptable example of a "market" especially you need to buy something in order to have access to this market *the term "free markets" could come into play* (On a side note with the Grokster decision, one can find Itunes illegal... so if that ever happens bye bye S-E's counter point)

As for Trance Kuja's reasoning why #4 falls in favor of S-E, all I have to say is this *I'm sorry folks but that line of reasoning truly deserves the below treatment*...
TRANCE KUJA LOL

haha <3


Transformative: FFShrine has converted the song into a different format but from the listener's perspective there has been no change. Precedent suggests that this is not considered sufficiently transformative in the way that an artist painting from a photograph would be transforming the work.

I still consider this debatable. I agree completely that simply changing the format definitely doesn't warrant calling it a "transformative work." however, the transformative nature of the use of copyrighted material is not one of the four considerations: it's a key aspect of one of the four. in reality, the consideration is actually "purpose and character [of the copyrighted work being used]." it is not just about transformation. other things apply, including if the nature of the use is for profit or not, and if the use of the copyrighted work "stimulate creativity for the enrichment of the general public."

and I believe GH does just that: it creates a venue for commentary on a small fraction of a copyrighted work. in other words, the site provides something of value other than just the copyrighted works themselves.


Amount of the work: each song counts as one copyrighted work. If you're reproducing the entirety of each song, then that's the full thing.

I also believe this is debatable. by the same token, couldn't you claim each paragraph in a book is, in and of itself, a work itself?

the original copyrighted work is the game itself. I realize people may beg to differ here, but the bottom line? I think a judge would see music from a video game as something trivial to be reproduced. especially when you take into consideration the effect on the market.


What would help FFShrine out, with regards to #1, is if someone found an actual quote or something from Nobuo Uematsu saying that he did not mind people modifying his work (as FFShrine could use Creator's Rights against S-E).

unfortunately, square-enix is the rights holder, not nobuo. I can almost guarantee you it's a work produced under hire/contract, which is a really horrible practice but it's also quite common.

I still consider this debatable. I agree completely that simply changing the format definitely doesn't warrant calling it a "transformative work." however, the transformative nature of the use of copyrighted material is not one of the four considerations: it's a key aspect of one of the four. in reality, the consideration is actually "purpose and character [of the copyrighted work being used]." it is not just about transformation. other things apply, including if the nature of the use is for profit or not, and if the use of the copyrighted work "stimulate creativity for the enrichment of the general public."

and I believe GH does just that: it creates a venue for commentary on a small fraction of a copyrighted work. in other words, the site provides something of value other than just the copyrighted works themselves.

I also believe this is debatable. by the same token, couldn't you claim each paragraph in a book is, in and of itself, a work itself?

the original copyrighted work is the game itself. I realize people may beg to differ here, but the bottom line? I think a judge would see music from a video game as something trivial to be reproduced. especially when you take into consideration the effect on the market.

If you ever wanted to take this to court, you should try to campaign on #4, as that is your strongest point.

Of course you can also challenge the legitness of copyright law such as the DMCA *which is truly awful*, which is what they will probably use against you.

The question really comes down to do: Do Game Companies market a game's music as a selling point? If they don't, then you got something.

But of course you face a giant hurdle, which is rights of/to distribution. Copyright law gives the right of the holdee to control distribution. If you ever go to court expect this to come out big time.

On a side note, if this goes to court, it would be really interesting to see what the ACLU would do, if anything.

What would help FFShrine out, with regards to #1, is if someone found an actual quote or something from Nobuo Uematsu saying that he did not mind people modifying his work (as FFShrine could use Creator's Rights against S-E). But I doubt that someone can find such a quote. (Perhaps, you can use the fact that he nor S-E has gone after DJP's site or Virt's site in place of a quote. DJP's site has appeared in some promiment magazines and websites)

No, and no. Uematsu created most of his works under what's known as a "work-for-hire" clause; while he is listed as the composer and indeed has had a lot of fame from his compositions, the recordings ultimately belong to SE. His contracts with SE may or may not give him say about how SE uses the work, but it is very unlikely that his permission (given or implied) to a third party would have any legal bearing on most soundtracks. It might have some effect on a case of infringement brought against, say, GH mirroring Phantasmagoria or The Black Mages.


As for the itunes thing, I think it is common-knowledge that it has made a shit load of money for Apple and the recording companies *cause Steve Jobs knows how to market music, whereas the idiotic record companies don't* Therefore since S-E is a public company, with shareholders to appease, they did it to join the profit bandwagon *which companies regardless of private or public always seek out*. Also not many people have a IPod to begin with. The last stats I saw were that about 5 million Americans had one. Therefore I do not really see the itunes as an acceptable example of a "market" especially you need to buy something in order to have access to this market *the term "free markets" could come into play* (On a side note with the Grokster decision, one can find Itunes illegal... so if that ever happens bye bye S-E's counter point)

Apple has consistently said that they are barely breaking even on the iTunes music store. What gets them profit is iPods. However, and this is the important part --

-- there is NO barrier to entry for the iTunes Music Store. You do not need an iPod to play songs purchased from the store. The only barrier to entry for soundtrack purchases, then, is having a computer with enough space to store them until they're burned to disc.

As for the Grokster decision, the record labels could technically sue Apple over both the iPod and iTunes -- indeed, even over their computers. But all of that would be pretty stupid, and despite the RIAA's general culture of idiocy, they know better than to pick on a multi-billion dollar company.


however, the transformative nature of the use of copyrighted material is not one of the four considerations: it's a key aspect of one of the four. in reality, the consideration is actually "purpose and character [of the copyrighted work being used]." it is not just about transformation. ...

Transformation is the essential part of it, however -- it's what judges look at when they say "purpose and character." Is the purpose to redistribute the work, or to create a new derivative work? That is the question they ask.


...other things apply, including if the nature of the use is for profit or not, and if the use of the copyrighted work "stimulate creativity for the enrichment of the general public."

Yep. Profit and cultural effect are secondary concerns, though.


I also believe this is debatable. by the same token, couldn't you claim each paragraph in a book is, in and of itself, a work itself?

No. The difference is that songs get individual copyrights because frequently there are multiple artists on a single album, and the album itself can get a copyright (for things like liner notes and artwork.)


the original copyrighted work is the game itself. I realize people may beg to differ here, but the bottom line? I think a judge would see music from a video game as something trivial to be reproduced. especially when you take into consideration the effect on the market.

That depends on whether the company released a soundtrack on CD.


Of course you can also challenge the legitness of copyright law such as the DMCA *which is truly awful*, which is what they will probably use against you.

But of course you face a giant hurdle, which is rights of/to distribution. Copyright law gives the right of the holdee to control distribution. If you ever go to court expect this to come out big time.

On a side note, if this goes to court, it would be really interesting to see what the ACLU would do, if anything.

Not likely. The DMCA applies only to the circumvention of access controls on copyrighted works (think encryption of some sort.) It is also unlikely that the ACLU would have anything to say about it, and the EFF (who might pay attention to the case if it was fought in court) isn't likely to intervene either.

That depends on whether the company released a soundtrack on CD.

this is definitely a great point, yes, and I've considered it before. technically I may even have more legal protection if I provide music ripped from games instead of the OSTs because of this.


Not likely. The DMCA applies only to the circumvention of access controls on copyrighted works (think encryption of some sort.) It is also unlikely that the ACLU would have anything to say about it, and the EFF (who might pay attention to the case if it was fought in court) isn't likely to intervene either.

it is likely to get some sort of coverage, though. and with that coverage would probably come donations for the cause.

it isn't a battle that couldn't be fought, that's for sure. I really am considering it. and again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if square-enix had no intentions to go further than a C&D to begin with.

Stop misquoting me.

Heh, you're acting as if I do it all the time.


I never said that there was "no such phrase;" rather, that your use of it was disingenuous -- misleading, in other words. You're welcome to your points of view, extreme as they are, but don't expect me or others to silently stand by while you spout tripe.

Maybe you could have explained it slightly better and make it sound less insulting. And why don't you read my previous posts and then tell me that I 'spout trip.'


My objection to your use of the phrase is based solely on your misunderstanding of its meaning. There are legal MP3s, and illegal MP3s, but the legality is not tied to the file format. An .ogg file can be just as "illegal" as a .mp3, or just as legal. It is the use -- the nuanced and complicated series of tests I mentioned before -- that determines the "legality" of a given file.

Through my time in liking VGM, I have only come across about 2 websites which contain .ogg. To tell you the truth, I don't mind .ogg files because they don't present anywhere near the prime quality that MP3's, WAV, etc do. Even if, in my opinion, they still are illegal, they rank more of a promotional way to spread VGM, in which I have no problem with.


That use must be objectively discerned, but neither you nor I are qualified to do that. That is for a judge to do. What we -are- qualified to do is make intelligent posts about the arguments for or against those fair use criteria. You've not done that.

Now you're being arrogant. You obviously haven't read my posts before you entered, and I think those posts are intelligent enough. Just because you study law doesn't mean you have the superior opinion to others, because you are certainly acting this way.


#1: Sites like gamemp3s are in fact "game communities." To use your def. of game communities, at gamemp3s, through their forms, discussion of game music takes place.

Sites like gamemp3s, in my opinion, aren't called communities, but 'Closed Societies' because unlike communities, they aren't meant to be open for everybody’s likeability. Communities are places like Chudah's Corner, SquareSound, CocoeBiz, GamingForce. And to make things clear, not a lot of VGM related discussion takes place at gamemp3s, anyway (on its poor forum or IRC.)


#2: Importing from OSTs Japan, techincally is a violation of copyright as it goes up again a company's right to control distribution. So if some people here really hated your guts, they can report you and BAM! you'll be facing legal action.

Umm, if it's a violation of copyright, then why do composers and companies give permission to sell these items on such sites as CDJapan and VGMWorld / CocoeBiz?


#3: You lost all face when you pretended to be the person responsible for getting the OSTs off the site, even more so when you had to reproduce the email you alledgedly sent to SquareEnix. This just really shows you're an immature and conceited 14 year-old, which is to be expected from someone young.

I guess you obviously didn't read the posts before you entered. I, before Sarah told me so (questionably, if it's real or not), emailed S-E about the removal of the MP3's. I did not pretend to do so. Please get your facts right before arguing with me. Still, you haven't proven how I am immature, especially when all my facts are true in comparison to your junk of so called 'facts' in the statement. So, please provide more, if any, evidence against my wrong doings before you comment.


#4 Video Game Music is not like "regular music." Some examples of this self-evident concept are the lack of radio play, lack of mentioning on the Grammays, MTV Music Awards and other such programs, and lack of appearance in music stores.

A LOT of music doesn't get radio play, lack of mention on the Grammays, MTV Music Awards and other such programs, and VGM is sold in your regular Japanese store (of course, only found Japan.) Plus, in addition, VGM does win awards. Care to explain?


#5: To call out someone's spelling errors *or as you call it "bad spelling"* is really childish, more so if you then proceed to use that as an basis for an insult. I mean come one, do you always spell correctly? Again this just reveals your inmature *read childish* nature.

You know what, it's really hard to tell whether a person is just performing a typo or just being plane stupid in their writing on a forum. So, we are both wrong. Also, you're don't seem to be the most mature person in your writing, and if you ask many people, I bet they'd say that I am very mature for my age.



#6: If you really are out to be S-E's self-appointed "guardian angel" and report to them every single site that has FF music for download...well lad you are quite frankly out of your mind. With regards to the Internet, downloadable FF music is like porn....as IT IS EVERYWHERE!!! I wonder why you had to start with this site? *Your earlier posts suggest you had it in for this site, for reasons I do not know*

I have issues with GH. My reasons are that I don't like the way how on every FF site I visit, I see a link posting back to GH. To add on that, I am a co-webmaster on the largest English Square-Enix Music resource on the entire web, and, even though I'm not entirely fond of S-E's music, I feel it is my duty not to allow such a site with excessive advertising and easy downloading to continue serving FF MP3s. If GH were in the Underground VGM trade (FTP, etc), that is a different story. I feel much less inclined to report Underground sites because it is harder to achieve the music from that site, whereas GH is HTML based providing easy access to material.


#7: In your "email" that you sent to S-E you wrote that this site is pirating their soundtracks and other companies OSTs. You then proceed to call on them to take the right action, with a smile at the end. My question is, and I'm being quite serious, are you S-E's bitch, bastard child or something the like? S-E is does not have any right what-so-ever to ask GH to take down OSTs that are not theirs. Now before you post well they can inform other companies about the infringment of copyrights, let me just state something: NOT ALL THE OSTS ON THIS SITE ARE "PIRATED" NOR VIOLATE COPYRIGHTS!!! I mainly point to the PC OSTS that this site has to back up my claim.

I didn't ask S-E to take down the ones which aren't theirs. I said for them to take the appropriate action, in which it isn't in my control in what they do next. I haven't told any other companies because it's the FF OSTs that will be getting the most downloads. I know not all of the OSTs are illegal, but how is that my problem or the company's? If it's legal, it's legal. Simple as that.


#8 No One will be ever to control privacy, as there will always be new sites popping up. With this said, one should take into account that this site at least conforms with the wishes of copyright holders, despite if they feel if it is wrong. Furthermore, at least this site has a legit mission statement...unlike other sites that just present you with material to download & completely disregard copyrights.

I still don't see what GH is offering when comparing it to other MP3 hosting sites. All I see that is different is the fact that GH has text stating the 'mission' (in which I feel is completely false and a cover up for simply just hosting MP3s). If it's true in what GH aiming for, then they should buy and rip their own OST (which shows that they aren't complete rip offs) other than stealing from other sites.


#9 The heads of S-E must be on drugs. Like medeii, I find it really idiotic that they have not tapped into the US market. *But they may have a contract requirment that prevents them from doing so*

#10: Those of us who listen to Video Game Music and who are also outraged at actions like or simliar to S-E's *or not* should form a Political Action Committee or an organization and call it something like the International Assoication of Video Game Music Listerners *IAVGML*. That way we can lobby for things, like the creation of markets in the US for VGM.

The reason why Square and other respectable companies haven't considered releasing full OST releases in the US is simply because there isn't enough interest in music genre. That is why they resorted to much cheaper measures in entertaining the people who are interested in it, from the package-less iTunes to the less-than-complete-best-of-the-best TokyoPop releases.


As for Trance Kuja's reasoning why #4 falls in favor of S-E, all I have to say is this *I'm sorry folks but that line of reasoning truly deserves the below treatment*...
TRANCE KUJA LOL

My reasoning on point #4 is strong on a stand alone basis. You should stop
agreeing with the opposition and look at my point of view for a bit, same with you, Sarah. You two are being WAY too biased towards your own opinions. Also, Chris Kateman, you should actually try and put up a good fight if you want to start a predicament with me. I bet you that to a lot of people, I'm more mature than what you're currently showing on stage.

Sarah - Stop being so prejudice against the people who are in opposition to your proposal. The Grey One had very good points, yet, you banned him for posting in parallel the rules. That shows your bad leadership. Next, you banned me for adding in some very good points and beating you in the previous quandary. That shows outstanding weakness. Consider yourself lucky that you're still an admin at these forums, because, in this thread, you certainly don't deserve it.

I challenge anyone here to post this topic on a proper VGM community board (Chudah's Corner, SquareSound, CocoeBiz), and compare the difference between expert opinion on those forums to the ones presented here. Go on, I dare you. You'll be quite surprised.

I have issues with GH. My reasons are that I don't like the way how on every FF site I visit, I see a link posting back to GH. To add on that, I am a co-webmaster on the largest English Square-Enix Music resource on the entire web, and, even though I'm not entirely fond of S-E's music, I feel it is my duty not to allow such a site with excessive advertising and easy downloading to continue serving FF MP3s.

oh. in other words you're jealous of our success. why didn't you say so earlier !


if you ask many people, I bet they'd say that I am very mature for my age.


I'm more mature than what you're currently showing on stage.


LOCK THIS THREAD! LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK THIS THREAD!LOCK

...

right.

oh. in other words you're jealous of our success. why didn't you say so earlier !

No, because you're theives, and you're making it way too easy for other people to be one too


Oh, I'm immature? Take a look...


oh god. you thinking you have SUPER CONNECTIONS with square-enix because you recieved a form-mail is about the funniest thing yet. keep it coming !


oh. in other words you're jealous of our success. why didn't you say so earlier !


doing what to me

what the hell are you on

get off my internet I'm done w/ you


I emailed square-enix telling them that if they wish to resign the internet over to me, they should respond with "Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Customer Support."

...

AND THEY DID.


how about I lock your face instead


from square-enix. I emailed them requesting that they instill in me the comedic genius of the gods, and if they wish to grant my modest request, they should let my mortal self know by replying with "Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Customer Support."

...

AND THEY DID.


HIS MOTHERUNIT'S VAGINAL CANAL IS UNLOCKABLE, SIR

RETREAT

RETREAT

MAY THE SQUARE-ENIX GODS HAVE MERCY ON OUR SOULS

Hmm, Stupid Americans.

No, because you're theives, and you're making it way too easy for other people to be one too

so it's okay if sites make square-enix's music available, but not okay if they make it easy to download? what the shit kind of logic is that. you know why no other site has been as successful as GH? because I have the money to back the site up. hosting costs almost 1,000$ a month.


Oh, I'm immature? Take a look...

yea see da difference here is that I'm not parading around calling myself the internet captain of maturity. I say you resign and run for the internet captain of hypocrisy !

so it's okay if sites make square-enix's music available, but not okay if they make it easy to download? what the shit kind of logic is that.

How about this, retard admin: Harder to download = Less downloads. Besides, I never said it was OK, I said I was more easy going on those sites.

What kind of shit logic is placing MP3s on HTML?




yea see da difference here is that I'm not parading around calling myself the internet captain of maturity. I say you resign and run for the internet captain of hypocrisy !

Nor am I. I'm trying to make a point that I'm not immature, which is something you can't do. I say you should resign from admin and become retard of the millennium.

I'm 14 years old, and I ......... by : Trance Kuja

14 years old? Mature?

14 years old? Mature?

Your Point?

How about this, retard admin: Harder to download = Less downloads. Besides, I never said it was OK, I said I was more easy going on those sites.

more easy going on them because they don't prove to be as much competition for you =)

oh. and just for the record, you little crusade hasn't damaged GH at all: we had record breaking traffic the last two days. this is after the final fantasy & front mission mp3s were removed.

more easy going on them because they don't prove to be as much competition for you :)

Hahahahaha. You're soooooo funny. I want your comedic skills

Oh, I'm immature? ...

Yes.

Yes.

Prove it.

Hahahahaha. You're soooooo funny. I want your comedic skills

I was being quite serious. apart from being jealous of the success of GH, I honestly cannot understand what it is that's driving you. if you're against sites distributing square-enix's mp3s on principle, then it shouldn't matter how many people use the service or how hard it is to download the files offered.

not to mention that, you know, you tried to report us to the only company that directly relates to your site. out of all of the dozens and dozens of companies represented, you chose square-enix. you'd have to be insane to NOT think this is about personal motivation on your part: you're trying to hurt gh in the hopes that your users won't ditch your site for one that offers what you can't.

Well.. biologically 14 years old isn't mature yet.

I was being quite serious. apart from being jealous of the success of GH, I honestly cannot understand what it is that's driving you. if you're against sites distributing square-enix's mp3s on principle, then it shouldn't matter how many people use the service or how hard it is to download the files offered.

You're presuming things. That's a no no in life.

If you read my rather large post on the previous page, you will see why I don't like GH. If you move Underground, it is harder to download which means less downloading from GH and more buying from CDJapan, Game Music Online, CocoeBiz, etc. That's my grudge. If you want to win some respect from me, you should at least post links on the soundtracks page to where each and every soundtrack can be bought.

Plus, can you prove how I am jealous of GH?


Well.. biologically 14 years old isn't mature yet.

Maybe you should go to School and learn about life, death, puberty and everything in between.

I can't prove it. however, it's obvious to justttt about everyone, hun.

I actually will add some links to buy the soundtracks. slipped my mind !

I can't prove it. however, it's obvious to justttt about everyone, hun.

If you can't prove it, then how is it obvious?


I actually will add some links to buy the soundtracks. slipped my mind !

Yay! If you need my help, please feel free to PM me :)

I think I know how to place links on html !

or will you report me for that too

also: plenty of things are obvious that aren't able to be proven. don't be silly.

I think I know how to place links on html !

or will you report me for that too

also: plenty of things are obvious that aren't able to be proven. don't be silly.

Eh? I was just offering help :(


also: plenty of things are obvious that aren't able to be proven. don't be silly.

Can you prove this theory?

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: BY DOWNLOADING THE FOLLOWING ALBUMS YOU AGREE THAT YOU LEGALLY OWN THEM, AND THEREBY ACCEPT ALL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY BY DOWNLOADING THEM. IF YOU IN FACT DO NOT OWN THEM, YOU ALSO AGREE THAT THE WEBMASTER IS NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE AND YOU ARE DOWNLOADING AT YOUR OWN RISK.
IF YOU DON'T OWN THIS OST, WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO BUY IT BY CLICKING ON THIS LINK

Bluelaguna did it already.

Trance Kuja : Ask your teacher, your mom, dad, etc. I won't reply anymore. Peace.

Eh? I was just offering help :(

Can you prove this theory?

it was a joke.

also, to prove my point: it's obvious to me I exist. I cannot, however, prove my existance. WHAAOOOOO GOIN ALL VIVI IN HERE


LEGAL DISCLAIMER: BY DOWNLOADING THE FOLLOWING ALBUMS YOU AGREE THAT YOU LEGALLY OWN THEM, AND THEREBY ACCEPT ALL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY BY DOWNLOADING THEM. IF YOU IN FACT DO NOT OWN THEM, YOU ALSO AGREE THAT THE WEBMASTER IS NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE AND YOU ARE DOWNLOADING AT YOUR OWN RISK.
IF YOU DON'T OWN THIS OST, WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO BUY IT BY CLICKING ON THIS LINK

Bluelaguna did it already.

this sort of legal disclaimer means absolutely nothing, actually. lots of sites have it. to me it just shows me that haven't the slightest clue what they're doing.

(same with those "delete this download in 7 days or it is illegal you must agree to this !!" disclaimers)

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: BY DOWNLOADING THE FOLLOWING ALBUMS YOU AGREE THAT YOU LEGALLY OWN THEM, AND THEREBY ACCEPT ALL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY BY DOWNLOADING THEM. IF YOU IN FACT DO NOT OWN THEM, YOU ALSO AGREE THAT THE WEBMASTER IS NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE AND YOU ARE DOWNLOADING AT YOUR OWN RISK.
IF YOU DON'T OWN THIS OST, WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO BUY IT BY CLICKING ON THIS LINK

Bluelaguna did it already.

And this is for?


Trance Kuja : Ask your teacher, your mom, dad, etc. I won't reply anymore. Peace.

So you didn't learn about Puberty and such?



also, to prove my point: it's obvious to me I exist. I cannot, however, prove my existance. WHAAOOOOO GOIN ALL VIVI IN HERE

It's all in The Bible, my friend :D

It's all in The Bible, my friend :D
quoting fiction now eh.

I actually will add some links to buy the soundtracks. slipped my mind !

I just trying to help her.... ^^


So you didn't learn about Puberty and such?

Whatever... :rolleyes:

Trance Kuja, lolz, i pwn you fukcer, rolflolzorz

Also, you're high on hormones and you smell of sarah's liquid man/woman juice.

Trance Kuja, lolz, i pwn you fukcer, rolflolzorz

Also, you're high on hormones and you smell of sarah's liquid man/woman juice.

I'm glad I arouse you. I've been saving myself for you ;)

Heh, you're acting as if I do it all the time.

Once is bad enough. I'll call you on it when I see it.


Maybe you could have explained it slightly better and make it sound less insulting. And why don't you read my previous posts and then tell me that I 'spout trip.'

It's not my fault if you can't be bothered to look up a word you don't know. As for your previous posts, I don't think I need to restate my position; from the perspective of most users, calling your posts 'tripe' gives them a generous amount of wholly undeserved respect.


Through my time in liking VGM, I have only come across about 2 websites which contain .ogg. To tell you the truth, I don't mind .ogg files because they don't present anywhere near the prime quality that MP3's, WAV, etc do. Even if, in my opinion, they still are illegal, they rank more of a promotional way to spread VGM, in which I have no problem with.

This is what we call "missing the point." Try reading for comprehension.


Now you're being arrogant. You obviously haven't read my posts before you entered, and I think those posts are intelligent enough. Just because you study law doesn't mean you have the superior opinion to others, because you are certainly acting this way.

The problem isn't that I read the posts (because I did.) The problem is that you're so convinced of your own moral superiority that you don't deign to read mine in their entirety.

Hell there, friends! It's great to be back, what did I miss? Summary anyone?

Still a bunch of thieving bastards? Great :D

First of all thanks to medeii for the legal �heads up� (read information) and clarifications. Somebody is going to be a great lawyer! E)

Responding to Trance Kuja:
#1 For the record it has been about 18 days since gamemp3s has opened up their forums! Therefore, one has to expect/realize that there won't be much discussion of VGM!!!

#2 Is this an assertion or do you have actual proof?

#3 Let's look at the record!
Well my complaint to S-E removed your FF OSTs, didn't it? I can go a whole lot further, being in touch with the company itself... That's from Post #24 if you wish to check. If that doesn't constitue pretending, then I'm Square-Enix!

#4 Name me 5 chains in the US that sell VGM. Regardless, what I mean that there is a great lack of visibility for VGM. Take 10 random people off the street. I bet that they would know people like the Rolling Stones, U2, et. al than VGM composers and that they would be able to name more "regular music" songs than VGM.

#5 How nice of you to judge my maturity on 1 thing I posted! On a side note, that's very nice people think you're very mature but that doesn't mean jackshit online.

#6 Care to give me a link to your site? Furthermore that's nice that you feel like you have some special duty, but here's two things! (A) Other infamous sites that run rampant with downloadable music are still up and (B) You should not force tis quest upon others as not everyone shares your opinion.

#7
I have came across a site where they are pirating your Original Soundtracks and other companies OSTs. Notice how you didn't mention that they had some "legal OSTs." You just said that GH was "pirating" various companies' OSTs.

#8 Maybe GH does buy the OSTs and rips them as you say. You should ask! Furthermore that was just an observation on my part. As again whatever you believe GH is pirating or not, at least they have some sort of "mission statement."


[4] effect on the market: UNKNOWN. This is both the most complex factor and the one with the biggest impact, which makes things dangerous for both sides in a legal battle. In FFShrine's favor is that they are not making money off the infringement, so they can be said to be "promoting" the work and increasing the market. Also in favor of FFShrine is Square's near-total lack of attempts to enter the U.S. market for soundtracks. However, the songs can be downloaded and played according to the user's wishes, which represents potential lost sales and decreases the market -- obviously, in favor of Square. Yes, I've read your post but I still don't get your line of thinking. Care to explain how this (#4) falls in S-E's favor!


You should stop
agreeing with the opposition and look at my point of view for a bit, same with you, Sarah. You two are being WAY too biased towards your own opinions. Also, Chris Kateman, you should actually try and put up a good fight if you want to start a predicament with me. I bet you that to a lot of people, I'm more mature than what you're currently showing on stage.

OMFG, it's...
TRANCE KUJA LMFAO


Some things and/or observations I would like to drop and/or mention *Please note I am not nor do I plan to argue the legality of downloading VGM as I believe there are too many things to take into account when deciding that issue*


You obviously didn't read my previous post completely. I recommend you re-read it before you post again.

I concur and second this motion. All in favor? I mean really Trance Kuja, you got to read the post you are responding to before you start with the "you wanna start with me shit." Seriously lad!


Hmm, Stupid Americans. Nice to meet another foreigner! Pray tell what country are you in or from *if you're living in America*?


Harder to download = Less downloads If this was only true. Trance Kuja I direct your attention to the multiple closings of P2P networks. WHen Napster shut down, people though downloading was finished! But then came in Grokster, Kazaa, et al. And nowadays you got Bittorrent! One will NEVER be able to stop downloading!!!


Well.. biologically 14 years old isn't mature yet. Dont forget the law also considers 14 years-old to be inmature! (thus the usage of minor!!!)


Now you're being arrogant. You obviously haven't read my posts before you entered, and I think those posts are intelligent enough. Just because you study law doesn't mean you have the superior opinion to others, because you are certainly acting this way.
I wouldn't say Medeii is superior, but I would say that there is a better chance of him knowing wtf he's talking about than ANY OF US. This whole post (#124) gives me probable cause to believe that now you're going after Medeii because he wasn't on your side. (I should point out that his long post was, as he said, neutral).


Hell there, friends! It's great to be back, what did I miss? Summary anyone? Still a bunch of thieving bastards? Great :D
Well since the FF songs have been removed and the fact that GH complied with the C&D letter, I question your usage of "thieving bastards." *of course the usgae of bastard is another question entirely*

In parting TK I would like to ask you two questions. (1) On average how much do you pay for your OSTs that you import? and (2) Do you see remixing FF songs as a violation of copyright?

P.S.: TK, you are under the impression I want a predicament with you. The fact that is I am not nor do I want to. However, if a freebirth like you wants a predicament with me I'm be glad to settle this in a Trial Of Grievance.

P.P.S.:
I bet you that to a lot of people, I'm more mature than what you're currently showing on stage. I was mererly stating some observations of mine. I wasn't being an ass nor was I swearing at various people who's only fault is that they have different opinions nor was I showing disrespect to people who I have not and probably will never meet, among other things! But since you obviously have the conceit to think you're more mature than me, let's have a vote on this site! You probably are the favorite as you have a longer "paper trail" then me :)!

P.P.P.S:
You two are being WAY too biased towards your own opinions. Well since I APPARENTLY MUST HAVE POSTED MY OPINION, DESPITE THAT I AM TOTALLY UNAWARE THAT I DID TO BEGIN WITH, I WILL HAVE TO REPOST IT AGAIN. That was in caps for your protection TK as you apparently don't get sarcasm all the time...No Worriers and No Problem as sometimes I don't get sarcasm either :)!!! Despite what I said in my 2nd post to this site, I am going to post my opinion on this matter sometime later.

Cheers.

Hah, despite the fact that that there is a very long post, it is mostly nonsensical. :D

Hah, despite the fact that that there is a very long post, it is mostly nonsensical. :D
Why I do believe we never had an introduction. The name's Chris Kateman. Nice to meet you.

Lol. Reading this thread prompted me to join, just for the hell of this discussion.

Ok, I'm going to skip all the legal crap (not very important), and go straight to the character of the major posters, aka credibility. I just read through the entire thread, so I'm more or less viewing it from a non-judgemental standpoint.

Introducing the cast!!!
*Drum Roll*
(I apologize if I spell usernames wrong, I'm doing this from memory.)
Medeii: You are a major ass. Anyone with this much information should fall off a cliff. But you presented your facts with objectivity and from a large base of information. Obviously, you have a lot of credibility.

Sarah: As webmistress of this site, you know things about web communities and other stuff. Granted, both you and Trance Kuja were a bit immature in around page 3-4ish, but it's an emotional topic. However, you do present your views quite clearly, and I'd say you are also quite credible.

Trance: Ok. Here's the sticky part. I'd say you were one hell of a poster in the beginning. I wouldn't have thought you were 14. And you were one hell of a spammer too around page 3-4ish too. But then after medeii came in, and owned our collective asses, you started attacking him for no apparent reason. I feel that if you had left earlier, you would have been respected a lot more, if not liked. Also, I'd like to point out that there's really not much point in discussing this topic among this forum. You're not going to achieve much, everyone here has basically a preformed opinion regardless of what you say. Anyways, props to you for being level-headed early on.

Chris Kateman: Good solid posts, and a relatively large base of information as well.

The Grey One: No offense if you aren't, but when I saw you post, multi screamed in my head, especially since you posted after Sarah threatened banning. And I think multi-ing is against the forum rules. But who can prove anything? And who reads the rules? :D But you're not bringing much to the discussion.

This was my take on peoples', and I don't expect anyone to really agree with me. And yes, if you want to argue about your parentage, keep it to PM's after the first couple of posts. It's amusing at first.

Oh and Sarah, you suck. I bookmarked the FFOST's, and now I'm stuck with a damn 404 error :D

I suck? have you not read anything? square-enix's fault, man, not mine ! ;-;;

Don't you mean Trance Kuja's fault?

in his dreams ~

Squenix is god. Never mess with them. They will summon Fat Chocobo and own the world. Not even SephyxCloud can stop them. Mwahahahaha.

#1 For the record it has been about 18 days since gamemp3s has opened up their forums! Therefore, one has to expect/realize that there won't be much discussion of VGM!!!

Then why did you say there was discussion of VGM when there is actually little to none, especially when they have been around for 2 years? You would expect a site like that have many people discussing about VGM, yet there is hardly any discussion.


#2 Is this an assertion or do you have actual proof?

Why don't you actually visit CocoeBiz (www.cocoebiz.com) and read the site? Kahori says that the composer give her permission to sell their products overseas. To add to my advantage, they are the hosts of the official websites of several popular VGM composers, all which give her permission to sell their OSTs to overseas fans. She is also linked to several companies, and stated to me in an email she sent, that the companies do check her website, though not nearly on a regular basis. Also, while you're there, why don't you read their mission statement which is a whole lot honorable than FFShrine's 'mission statement.' CDJapan orders their VGM related stock from the official publishers of the material (e.g Square-Enix). Again, read the website (www.cdjapan.co.jp) for more details. I think that's proof enough. Finally, on an official Japanese VGM CD, there are two price tags: One tag including 5%tax, and another without the tax. The one with the tax is related to the sales in Japan while the tax-less one is related to sales outside of the country. I think I have proved and exceeded your asking.


#3 Let's look at the record!


Well my complaint to S-E removed your FF OSTs, didn't it? I can go a whole lot further, being in touch with the company itself...

That's from Post #24 if you wish to check. If that doesn't constitue pretending, then I'm Square-Enix!

Then, because you're so absent minded to bother reading the rest of the thread, you missed this post:


You see, the thing I said before was a scare tactic. S-E is not doing that to you, but the real thing.

Moving on...


#4 Name me 5 chains in the US that sell VGM. Regardless, what I mean that there is a great lack of visibility for VGM. Take 10 random people off the street. I bet that they would know people like the Rolling Stones, U2, et. al than VGM composers and that they would be able to name more "regular music" songs than VGM.

Umm, here's more proof of how don't read the posts, furthermore, change the entire direction of the statement. It's nonsensical. I was talking about VGM in Japan and in general, stated unbelievably clearly in my previous post, not in the US. To add on to that, many stores in Japan do. I don't feel the need to respond to your quote because of the lack of respect towards my previous example. I suggest you re-read my argument.


#5 How nice of you to judge my maturity on 1 thing I posted! On a side note, that's very nice people think you're very mature but that doesn't mean jackshit online.

You're contradicting yourself. If you believe it doesn't mean anything online, then stop judging my maturity based on my quotes.


#6 Care to give me a link to your site? Furthermore that's nice that you feel like you have some special duty, but here's two things! (A) Other infamous sites that run rampant with downloadable music are still up and (B) You should not force tis quest upon others as not everyone shares your opinion.

Sure: www.squaresound.com

a) I have lesser issues with other HTML sites because they aren't advertised excessively like GH does. Therefore, by obvious conclusion, less advertising = less downloading. Also, other HTML sites don't have many OSTs to download, unlike GH, which doesn't fire me up as much.

b) You can't talk. MANY MANY others share my opinion, just as much as many share your opinion. I'm sure those people against your opinion would be fine with my one-off action, while others who side with you won't be. Simple as that.


#7



I have came across a site where they are pirating your Original Soundtracks and other companies OSTs.

Notice how you didn't mention that they had some "legal OSTs." You just said that GH was "pirating" various companies' OSTs.

Please stop being so dumb and use your own brain for once? Notice how I didn't put 'legal OSTs' in? It's because of this: If it is legal, then it is legal, like I said before. The company won't do anything about it. They won't care for other companies OSTs, though I decided to put it in for their reference. Your quote refers back to my previous quote related to this topic, please read it, then disagree with me.


#8 Maybe GH does buy the OSTs and rips them as you say. You should ask! Furthermore that was just an observation on my part. As again whatever you believe GH is pirating or not, at least they have some sort of "mission statement."

Maybe they don't buy the OSTs (yes, I know I'm assuming things, but painstakingly obvious), as proven by how they have SOOOO much money to buy all of those OSTs. Even you must agree with me. Their 'mission statement' is just a bunch of text on the wall. Does it mean anything? I don't see them achieving anything, do you? If you want to read a proven, real, and successful mission statement, read CocoeBiz's mission.



[4] effect on the market: UNKNOWN. This is both the most complex factor and the one with the biggest impact, which makes things dangerous for both sides in a legal battle. In FFShrine's favor is that they are not making money off the infringement, so they can be said to be "promoting" the work and increasing the market. Also in favor of FFShrine is Square's near-total lack of attempts to enter the U.S. market for soundtracks. However, the songs can be downloaded and played according to the user's wishes, which represents potential lost sales and decreases the market -- obviously, in favor of Square.

Yes, I've read your post but I still don't get your line of thinking. Care to explain how this (#4) falls in S-E's favor!

First of all, please, PLEASE read the entire thread again to get the gist of the idea. Second, despite what medeii thinks, FFShrine isn't promoting the OSTs, but providing an easier albeit lazier way on achieving someone’s hard and dedicated work.

I don't know how many times I have said it, so let me explain one more time, but S-E HAD and HAS again entered the market with their Soundtracks. First time was with TokyoPop (despite only releasing a few and their overall crappiness) and now with iTunes. TokyoPop's half completed versions of the select few OSTs were sent flying OOP because of MP3s, and iTunes, available now, I predict aren't getting enough attention because of illegal forms of receiving the Soundtracks. Therefore, I explain once more, GH is helping the extinction of any S-E OST related market. THAT is what falls under S-E's favor.


OMFG, it's...
TRANCE KUJA LMFAO






Some things and/or observations I would like to drop and/or mention *Please note I am not nor do I plan to argue the legality of downloading VGM as I believe there are too many things to take into account when deciding that issue*





You obviously didn't read my previous post completely. I recommend you re-read it before you post again.


I concur and second this motion. All in favor? I mean really Trance Kuja, you got to read the post you are responding to before you start with the "you wanna start with me shit." Seriously lad!

You've gotta a lot of guts to argue something which you have trouble doing as well


Nice to meet another foreigner! Pray tell what country are you in or from *if you're living in America*?

Australia, for your information


If this was only true. Trance Kuja I direct your attention to the multiple closings of P2P networks. WHen Napster shut down, people though downloading was finished! But then came in Grokster, Kazaa, et al. And nowadays you got Bittorrent! One will NEVER be able to stop downloading!!!

It is true, and you can ask anybody this. It is a known fact that if it's harder to download, then there's less downloading. Sure, there are a lot of people who use bittorent, but the average VGM fan (aka Nobuo Uematsu lovers) doesn’t use this kind of form.


I wouldn't say Medeii is superior, but I would say that there is a better chance of him knowing wtf he's talking about than ANY OF US. This whole post (#124) gives me probable cause to believe that now you're going after Medeii because he wasn't on your side. (I should point out that his long post was, as he said, neutral).

I'm not doing such a thing; though medeii's innocence on this matter is questionable (I thought being neutral was being non-biased, as medeii shows signs of bias in favor of Sarah)


In parting TK I would like to ask you two questions. (1) On average how much do you pay for your OSTs that you import? and (2) Do you see remixing FF songs as a violation of copyright?

1. I pay around $40 AUD per OST, though I usually buy multiple OSTs to save money on EMS shipping.
2. No, because the only thing which is used from the original is the melody, whereas the rest of arrangement is entirely new (instrumental wise and composition wise).


P.P.S.:


I bet you that to a lot of people, I'm more mature than what you're currently showing on stage.


I was mererly stating some observations of mine. I wasn't being an ass nor was I swearing at various people who's only fault is that they have different opinions nor was I showing disrespect to people who I have not and probably will never meet, among other things! But since you obviously have the conceit to think you're more mature than me, let's have a vote on this site! You probably are the favorite as you have a longer "paper trail" then me !


P.P.P.S:


You two are being WAY too biased towards your own opinions.


Well since I APPARENTLY MUST HAVE POSTED MY OPINION, DESPITE THAT I AM TOTALLY UNAWARE THAT I DID TO BEGIN WITH, I WILL HAVE TO REPOST IT AGAIN. That was in caps for your protection TK as you apparently don't get sarcasm all the time...No Worriers and No Problem as sometimes I don't get sarcasm either !!! Despite what I said in my 2nd post to this site, I am going to post my opinion on this matter sometime later.

About 80% of both of these quotes don't make sense.


It's not my fault if you can't be bothered to look up a word you don't know. As for your previous posts, I don't think I need to restate my position; from the perspective of most users, calling your posts 'tripe' gives them a generous amount of wholly undeserved respect.

It has nothing to do with the word, but the way you worded the sentence. If it were a little better in respect, then I would have no issue. Calling my posts 'tripe' is your opinion, and no others, so don't aim your opinions towards the public, because other people have different views. By the way, you stated that my previous posts were unintelligent, but you failed to say WHY they are so. Please explain?


This is what we call "missing the point." Try reading for comprehension.

Wrong, my post was called expansion which is something you don't understand. Look up the word for the meaning.


The problem isn't that I read the posts (because I did.) The problem is that you're so convinced of your own moral superiority that you don't deign to read mine in their entirety.

I see no evidence of you reading my previous posts, and just because I miss read one of your quotes, doesn't mean I miss read every single other quote. It happens sometimes because we're all human.

For a different, but relevant reason, medeii, I never said you were on my side in post #85. I said thank you for pointing out my opinions in a more understandable law point of view, which is COMPLETELY different to what you presumed. This questions your accusations towards me about misreading posts, when you clearly did it yourself.


Trance: Ok. Here's the sticky part. I'd say you were one hell of a poster in the beginning. I wouldn't have thought you were 14. And you were one hell of a spammer too around page 3-4ish too. But then after medeii came in, and owned our collective asses, you started attacking him for no apparent reason. I feel that if you had left earlier, you would have been respected a lot more, if not liked. Also, I'd like to point out that there's really not much point in discussing this topic among this forum. You're not going to achieve much, everyone here has basically a preformed opinion regardless of what you say. Anyways, props to you for being level-headed early on.

OK:

1. If you read the thread, you will realize that Sarah was the provoker of the Spam, and my so-called Spam had at least some relevance to the topic's direction.
2. I'd like you to point out were medeii 'owned my collective ass'? I wasn't attacking him for no reason, but stating my own opinions towards him. You seem to have gotten attacking and stating confused.
3. Exactly my point in not discussing this topic amongst forum. It should be taken to a respected VGM community like I said earlier.


Chris Kateman: Good solid posts, and a relatively large base of information as well.

Heh, you say that after I easily and agreeably contradict every single one of his posts, especially when they lack depth?


The Grey One: No offense if you aren't, but when I saw you post, multi screamed in my head, especially since you posted after Sarah threatened banning. And I think multi-ing is against the forum rules. But who can prove anything? And who reads the rules? :D

Sarah can prove that he is not a duplicate account, because she can see IP Addresses, and I bet you my entire fortune that The Grey One isn’t a dupe of me. I’m not going to comment again on Sarah’s despising acts.


But you're not bringing much to the discussion.

And you’re bringing in something amazing for us? The fact is, The Grey One had very good points to begin with, though he started spamming in the end ;)

Phew.

Trance Kuja, more like Granny's pants-poo jar.

Trance Kuja, more like Granny's pants poo jar.

*Cough Spam Cough*

You should just go away. You're not adding anything useful here. Just an excuse to get posts.

"1. If you read the thread, you will realize that Sarah was the provoker of the Spam, and my so-called Spam had at least some relevance to the topic's direction.
2. I'd like you to point out were medeii 'owned my collective ass'? I wasn't attacking him for no reason, but stating my own opinions towards him. You seem to have gotten attacking and stating confused.
3. Exactly my point in not discussing this topic amongst forum. It should be taken to a respected VGM community like I said earlier."
4. Sarah can prove that he is not a duplicate account, because she can see IP Addresses, and I bet you my entire fortune that The Grey One isn�t a dupe of me. I�m not going to comment again on Sarah�s despising acts.
5. And you�re bringing in something amazing for us? The fact is, The Grey One had very good points to begin with, though he started spamming in the end

1.Ok, provoker or not, you responded.
2.Owned our collective asses as in he was the first person to objectively present all data. Most of everyone else's posts prior had some emotional attachment. Actually perhaps not. I'll take that statement back.
3.Eh.
4.You could be using dialup, but we can debate that to no end.
5. No offense, but that's exactly how I feel about your posting too. Somewhat.

Again, I'll state that it's rather pointless to discuss this any further here. Most people here dislike you already, and that's going to precede just about any argument you can make. I'll follow my own example and stop posting on this thread. I'll just lurk. Bye. Enjoy. Don't fall off.

If it is legal, then it is legal, like I said before. The company won't do anything about it.

again, if you honestly believe this, you're incredibly, incredibly naive. companies try to enforce things they don't have the legal right to all the time.


Sarah can prove that he is not a duplicate account, because she can see IP Addresses, and I bet you my entire fortune that The Grey One isn’t a dupe of me. I’m not going to comment again on Sarah’s despising acts.

I don't believe he's you. however, I believe you probably dragged him here from someplace hoping he'd back you up. this is the best guy you can find? 8-)

look, I have no problem with someone believing what we're doing isn't ethical. you're more than welcome to believe that. some people out there believe downloading unlicensed anime is wrong. there's a difference between having a humble opinion and being an ass about it and trying to enforce your personal opinions as law.

you're not in the good category, sir.

again, if you honestly believe this, you're incredibly, incredibly naive. companies try to enforce things they don't have the legal right to all the time.

Give me an example when S-E has done this in the past?




I don't believe he's you. however, I believe you probably dragged him here from someplace hoping he'd back you up. this is the best guy you can find? 8-)

Aha, I can say the same for you. Did you drag medeii and Chris in?


look, I have no problem with someone believing what we're doing isn't ethical. you're more than welcome to believe that. some people out there believe downloading unlicensed anime is wrong. there's a difference between having a humble opinion and being an ass about it and trying to enforce your personal opinions as law.

you're not in the good category, sir.

How am I being an ass about it? I'm proving my point, while you're acting childish whining how you can't prove yours.

Heh, you say that after I easily and agreeably contradict every single one of his posts, especially when they lack depth?

This wasn't addressed to me, but your choice of adverbs leaves something to be desired from a factual standpoint. Keep dreaming.


I'm not doing such a thing; though medeii's innocence on this matter is questionable (I thought being neutral was being non-biased, as medeii shows signs of bias in favor of Sarah)

Again, you failed to read for comprehension. My explanation of why I'm on her side is in my first post.


It has nothing to do with the word, but the way you worded the sentence. If it were a little better in respect, then I would have no issue. Calling my posts 'tripe' is your opinion, and no others, so don't aim your opinions towards the public, because other people have different views. By the way, you stated that my previous posts were unintelligent, but you failed to say WHY they are so. Please explain?

Because you rely solely on personal attacks to make your point, displaying a callous disregard for others' points of view and your own ignorance of the law simultaneously. To wit:


When you have no argument, abuse the plaintiff.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.


Second, despite what medeii thinks, FFShrine isn't promoting the OSTs, but providing an easier albeit lazier way on achieving someone�s hard and dedicated work.

Amazingly enough, this has substantial similarity to what radio broadcasters do. I should also take this time to point out that several studies in the U.S. and Canada about the effect of file-sharing networks on the growth or profits of the music industry were conducted by non-industry (read: academic) sponsors. Their conclusions were that the effects of file-sharing networks, to include websites, P2P networks, and other methods of transfer, exhibited a negligible (and in some cases, positive) effect on consumers' music-buying habits.

While these studies cannot be said to be directly applicable to the current topic, since they studied a wider range of music and transfer methods than GH utilizes, they are instructive in the realm of possibility. As such, promotion is an apt word for the process.


Wrong, my post was called expansion which is something you don't understand. Look up the word for the meaning.

Expansion would be understanding my argument and building upon it. You missed the point of my argument entirely, reverted to your own illogical statements, and proceeded to construct a paragraph with more fallacy than fact.


Aha, I can say the same for you. Did you drag medeii and Chris in?

I created an account specifically so I could address your spurious claims. I haven't met with or spoken with anyone that has posted here outside the forums. I'd not mind meeting a few of the posters here, if only to discuss VGM over coffee, but in your case I'd make an exception.

And finally, thanks for the compliments:


Medeii: You are a major ass.

I try.

This wasn't addressed to me, but your choice of adverbs leaves something to be desired from a factual standpoint. Keep dreaming.

If you actually read his posts, not only do they lightly touch on the issues presented, but, in addition, they are hardly intelligent, stating the obvious and, on most occasions, widely wrong. He fails to give reasoning and that's what is meant by lacking depth. As for the 'keep dreaming' part, not only did you pull this out of your ass, but it's a poor insult. I'm open to a good debate, but using a bad, non relevant, insult is a little touchy.




Again, you failed to read for comprehension. My explanation of why I'm on her side is in my first post.

Thus, I present you with a self contradiction. If I am not mistaken, you said you were neutral in your second post (and presented in your first post), and now you're arguing that your on her side. You failed to read your own post for comprehension, thus being hypocritical.




Because you rely solely on personal attacks to make your point, displaying a callous disregard for others' points of view and your own ignorance of the law simultaneously. To wit:


When you have no argument, abuse the plaintiff.

Because you don't the read the posts, I'll explain it: I do take the opposition's opinion into hand while responding, or arguing, to their understanding, much like we are doing now. You, however, can't seem to keep your own opinions without drastically changing them days latter. You also criticize me for not reading the posts while you do the same, being hypocritical towards others. Oh, and I don't have to rely on quotes from famous Ancient Romans to best sum and win my argument. So perhaps when you attack me for me somewhat unintelligent posts, make sure you first understand the faults of your own.



Amazingly enough, this has substantial similarity to what radio broadcasters do. I should also take this time to point out that several studies in the U.S. and Canada about the effect of file-sharing networks on the growth or profits of the music industry were conducted by non-industry (read: academic) sponsors. Their conclusions were that the effects of file-sharing networks, to include websites, P2P networks, and other methods of transfer, exhibited a negligible (and in some cases, positive) effect on consumers' music-buying habits.

While these studies cannot be said to be directly applicable to the current topic, since they studied a wider range of music and transfer methods than GH utilizes, they are instructive in the realm of possibility. As such, promotion is an apt word for the process.

You see, radio broadcaster actually promote the material, while offering the track in a lower quality, thus, making you crave for the full quality and CD.

I want to expand on your statement: As for the study, I would like to see this, if made available. I find it hard to believe that when you have the option of illegally obtaining music, no money involved, that an individual would buy the CD after downloading and be a contributing factor to the growth of the market, though it's understandable, in my opinion, if the downloader uses the music samples to sample their favorite band's newest album. Anyway, if you do have this study, I would like to see it.

I still don't agree with the part on promoting the material, because it is well known that downloading does more harm than good, especially in the VGM world. Then again, neither of us know the statistics of sales for VGM. I stick by my original quote about this issue.



Expansion would be understanding my argument and building upon it. You missed the point of my argument entirely, reverted to your own illogical statements, and proceeded to construct a paragraph with more fallacy than fact.

I don't see how you fail to grasp the meaning of Expansion. If you bothered to read that original quote of mine, you would realize that it is an expansion. Sure, it does seem misleading at first, but the structural complexity can be easily be noticed when baring Expansion in mind. By the way, what is a logical paragraph to you? Doesn't this really depend on the person's opinion and facts? Go back and read.



I created an account specifically so I could address your spurious claims. I haven't met with or spoken with anyone that has posted here outside the forums. I'd not mind meeting a few of the posters here, if only to discuss VGM over coffee, but in your case I'd make an exception.

No, you created account to share with us your magical law point of views in which I accepted, many posts back, and you quoted Sarah's post, so I doubt you aiming the discussion at me at a whole.

By the way, I'd rather not talk about VGM (aka Uematsu and Mitsuda) over coffee with you. I'm into more intelligent discussion of the genre (excluding piracy, etc.)

If you actually read his posts, not only do they lightly touch on the issues presented, but, in addition, they are hardly intelligent, stating the obvious and, on most occasions, widely wrong. He fails to give reasoning and that's what is meant by lacking depth. As for the 'keep dreaming' part, not only did you pull this out of your ass, but it's a poor insult. I'm open to a good debate, but using a bad, non relevant, insult is a little touchy.

My, how we wish you'd take your own advice.


Thus, I present you with a self contradiction. If I am not mistaken, you said you were neutral in your second post (and presented in your first post), and now you're arguing that your on her side. You failed to read your own post for comprehension, thus being hypocritical.

"Legally, it's a toss-up. Ethically, I support FFShrine." It's on page four of this topic, the first sentence of the last sizeable paragraph in my first-ever post. I'm sorry that you lacked the competence to find it yourself.


Because you don't the read the posts, I'll explain it: I do take the opposition's opinion into hand while responding, or arguing, to their understanding, much like we are doing now. You, however, can't seem to keep your own opinions without drastically changing them days latter. You also criticize me for not reading the posts while you do the same, being hypocritical towards others.

Perfect example of "I can't cite an example, so I'll attack you instead." My opinions have not changed, as anyone who has read my posts can easily ascertain. Unfortunately, your predisposition to ignore logic and focus on emotion has also not changed.


Oh, and I don't have to rely on quotes from famous Ancient Romans to best sum and win my argument.

You don't have to, but your arguments would probably be much better if you did.


You see, radio broadcaster actually promote the material, while offering the track in a lower quality, thus, making you crave for the full quality and CD.

I never said that the process was identical, simply analagous. In both situations, the music is made available for listening.


I want to expand on your statement: As for the study, I would like to see this, if made available. I find it hard to believe that when you have the option of illegally obtaining music, no money involved, that an individual would buy the CD after downloading and be a contributing factor to the growth of the market, though it's understandable, in my opinion, if the downloader uses the music samples to sample their favorite band's newest album. Anyway, if you do have this study, I would like to see it.

Google's a wonderful thing. The first result of many, and not the only study, either: get it from the Beeb. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4718249.stm)


I still don't agree with the part on promoting the material, because it is well known that downloading does more harm than good, especially in the VGM world. Then again, neither of us know the statistics of sales for VGM. I stick by my original quote about this issue.

It's not "well-known," but rather, "not yet ascertained." The lack of evidence one way or the other proves nothing but that someone needs to study it in-depth. However, the circumstantial evidence found in studies not commissioned by music labels is rather compelling, because it suggests that generally, file-sharing users buy more music than others.

(Speaking of which, I just bought the Advent Children OST this afternoon. If you want supporting anecdotes, I've got twenty for everyone I know.)


I don't see how you fail to grasp the meaning of Expansion. If you bothered to read that original quote of mine, you would realize that it is an expansion. Sure, it does seem misleading at first, but the structural complexity can be easily be noticed when baring Expansion in mind. By the way, what is a logical paragraph to you? Doesn't this really depend on the person's opinion and facts? Go back and read.

In your "expansion," you launch into a discussion of file formats that has nothing to do with the real topic: whether a given file is legal or illegal. The format, quality, etc. is totally irrelevant. A 30-second .ogg created as a streaming-only "sample" is just as infringing as a full-length MP3 downloaded permanently. The creator of the digital file, and the user that ultimately listens to it, are the things that matter. That is how you missed the point.


By the way, I'd rather not talk about VGM (aka Uematsu and Mitsuda) over coffee with you. I'm into more intelligent discussion of the genre (excluding piracy, etc.)

Again, you miss the point: I didn't want to discuss VGM with you. You'd probably spend half the time looking around, wondering where agents from Square Enix were since you sent them an e-mail proclaiming my guilt -- and the other half clawing your eyes out at the mere presence of my iPod.

Expansion would be understanding my argument and building upon it. You missed the point of my argument entirely, reverted to your own illogical statements, and proceeded to construct a paragraph with more fallacy than fact.


oh god marry me <3

It's good to be back folks :)

#1
And to make things clear, not a lot of VGM related discussion takes place at gamemp3s, anyway (on its poor forum or IRC.) Now the point of my response to this quote was that they just started their forums. What I am asserting *though it will most likely be proven right* is that overtime you will see a lot of VGM discussion at gamemp3s.

#2 I just went to http://www.cocoebiz.com/?display=about_us&PHPSESSID=94d2cfab0476fabf65dbbb49ff01fb1e. Nowhere does it state that they have the explict permission of S-E or the musician to sell their music. It does state that they want to PROMOTE the artists, music, etc. on a international level. For reasons that medeii can best example, that does not equate having the permission. Therefore, they are guilty of copyright infringment. If you have a clear link or a document that explictly states that they have the permission, by all means post it!!! I would doubt that S-E would sign away their rights to distribution...as that right is one of the most important ones given to copyright holders. And just because she is linked to their company does not neccesarily mean anything. GH could link to S-E's website or bluelagan.net could too. CDJapan, which I also visited, also fails to mention explictly that they have permission.

#3:
You see, the thing I said before was a scare tactic. S-E is not doing that to you, but the real thing. Ok you now have established yourself that you were in fact pretending, as scare tactics involves pretending to have something or do something that you don't have (or can't). But furthermore you just provide how "unwise" you are. Do you really think you, a 14-year old, is going to scare Sarah? Oh vey.

#4 Well I would like to sidely note that you SEEM *emphasis on seem* to give no or not as much as respect to other's peoples' viewpoint. Regardles, I did reread your point. With regards to what I last posted, I was trying to draw a contrast of VGM and regular music, but whatever it's not really important..with regards to this debate in its present state.

#5
#5 How nice of you to judge my maturity on 1 thing I posted! It's called sarcasm TK.

#6: Do you know of bluelagana.net or emuparadise.org? I realize that there are people out there who share your view. My point is that they would at least have the dignity and class not to force this view on others *I would hope, as I only met a couple of people who have a viewpoint similar to yours*. You are, in a way, like Osama bin Laden and the extremists Muslims. They want everyone to be a Muslim while you want everyone to buy FF Music *please note TK this does not reflect my personal viewpoint, which I will get to later*

#7: But how would S-E or the other companies know if all the OSTs are legal? But again whatever. Though it was nice of you to call me dumb :) *this is again sarcasm TK*

#8: *Refers to #2*


Therefore, I explain once more, GH is helping the extinction of any S-E OST related market.
Entering IPod and Tokyo Pop I really doesn't count as "establishing a market" *I refer to what medeii said about iTunes and what you said about TokyoPop* They were more like little baby steps *you know how it does that before it walks.* But that's my opinion and for a judge to decide if that equates establishing a market.


You got a lot of guts to argue something which you have trouble doing as well Thanks for the first part and then second parts gets a Huh? But don't worry, that isn't important. Thus you not need explain.


Australia, for your information Well it's nice to meet a "cousin" *I'm British, Scotish, Irish, and Welch if you don't get it*


It is true, and you can ask anybody this. It is a known fact that if it's harder to download, then there's less downloading. Sure, there are a lot of people who use bittorent, but the average VGM fan (aka Nobuo Uematsu lovers) doesn’t use this kind of form.
Maybe that's true for you. But I respectedly dissent. Let me explain. Yes if something is harder to download, then there's less downloading. But there's still downloading. Furthermore, *and this is my point* is that some of those who downloaded will post/upload the download goods. Thus you have more downloading! The average VGM doesn't use bittorrent? Then why are the OCremixes are on bittorrent, why does gamemp3s get some many vists, ditto emuparadise, et. al?


I'm not doing such a thing; though medeii's innocence on this matter is questionable (I thought being neutral was being non-biased, as medeii shows signs of bias in favor of Sarah) Fair enough.


About 80% of both of these quotes don't make sense.

Let me explain them then.
The first one involves your claim that you are more mature based on what I have said on this forum. I was merely pointing out that I wasn't being an prick *not that I believe you are 1 TK, but someone did call you such* nor was I swearing at various people who's only fault is that they have different opinions nor was I showing disrespect to people who I have not and probably will never meet, among other things! Then I proceed to invite you to back up your assertion that you are more mature than me by creating a poll on this site that asks Who is more mature Trance Kuja or Chris Kateman.

The second one was merely pointing out that I never *read: have yet to* stated my opinion on the matter of FF Music and downloadability and etc. However, you stated "You two [me and Sarah] are being WAY too biased towards your own opinions." Again I was merely correcting this. *However, I wonder if you are referring to my first and/or second post. If so, you're still wrong as the first represents some observations and thoughts I wanted to share and the 2nd is responding to your thoughts on my propr post*



Heh, you say that after I easily and agreeably contradict every single one of his posts, especially when they lack depth?
First part I say YOU HAVE NOT GOOD SIR *though you may personally believe so that you have* With regards to the second part, due to my probable lack of impartiabilty I recuse myself. Though it does say somethign that someone said that, but whatever.

Allright folks now to for the infamous part.

On the subject of FF Music.
Hypo #1: You personally own FF games and want to extract the music.
If you personally own the FF disc(s) and have the know how to extract the music and use it for your own private use ~that's ok by me *getting advice on extracting the music is ok so long as you do it yourself*. I mean you bought the game, which has the music on it in the first place, so this is only what I would call a "natural right."

Hypo #2: Same as before but instead of extracting the music is go and download it from sites like GH.
Well this is not as clear, but I am leading towards that's ok as again you bought the FF game which has the music itself. However, a safe solution would be setting up a site in such a way that one has to substantial prove that they own the game...perhaps through use of unique CD-Keys *I know that works as Blizzard uses them to ensure you have a legit copying when you're playing Battle.net.* Contiuning with the CD-Keys, one would store which CD-Keys where used in order to prevent repeated usage.

Hypo #3: You do not own the game and you go download from sites like GH. I recuse myself from a decision, but I can't help wondering how many people actually download/buy FF music when they have yet to play a FF game? *my guess it would be a small number for how else will you know of FF music?*

I just have to say that I think GH is a first-class site with a first-class collection of VGM *by extension: 3 cheers to Sarah & Company*. It has a noble and very pro-FF fan intent in its mission. In terms of ethics I find myself ever sliding to with what medeii said as S-E really insults its US FF's fans with its laughable and almost non-existent attempt at entering and/or establishing the US VGM market.

*NOTE* Now I haven't really played any FF games in particular. However, I do have almost all of the OSTs and some "other" albums *as I don't know how to call Advent Children." I got these from a friend who just moved to college and had a lowered interest in FF. All together I got like 16OSTs for like $240 US. I believe that averages around to $15 each.

*Note 2* I just would like to point I really am a Computer Game Music Person. With CGM you don't have any "legal" problems as most game developers/companies eventually release a game's OST/Music (which I personally think is a smart decision) *though I do have some VGM*

That's all Folks!

Cheers!!! E)

P.S.:

Again, you miss the point: I didn't want to discuss VGM with you. You'd probably spend half the time looking around, wondering where agents from Square Enix were since you sent them an e-mail proclaiming my guilt -- and the other half clawing your eyes out at the mere presence of my iPod. The funny *and maybe sad* thing is that I can actually see this being played out. Quote of the day, this is!

Do you really think you, a 14-year old, is going to scare Sarah? Oh vey.

if she threatens to tell her mommy, oh god yes.

if she threatens to tell her mommy, oh god yes.

LMFAO!!! *But yet shudders in agreement...moms can be quite dangerous*

oh god marry me <3

Sorry, but I'm dating a wonderful man. (Bring on the orientation flames.)

.... sarah's a lesbian anyway.\

medeii if you wander into general discussion you'll see we have the highest concentration of gays on earth.

Guys, I would love to gainsay with both of your quotations (especially Chris' response to #2, involving CocoeBiz and CDJapan, which is widely incorrect), but I think all of you, including myself, think that this debate has gotten out of hand, as we are now discussing irrelevant issues in proportion to the entire argument. If you still have any issues with me that you would like to clear up, please feel free to PM me, but the place for this level of disagreement is not here. In addition, if we continue to argue like this, it would go on forever. Beter end it sooner than latter, eh? I will be leaving this thread and I hope all contenders do similar actions.

I just want to end this with thoughts and constructive criticism of each major contender (all honesty shown):

Sarah - You were the second weakest link of the discussion. You didn't post with all facts and features shown, and you failed to back up your material, especially in the second half of the debate. However, you did provide good laughs and that's what the audience wants. I give you: 65% out of 100%

Chris Kateman - You entered strongly, though I felt, and is completely evident, your arguments gradually became weaker and less involved. I still think you'd be a great debater if you learn to read and take advantage of others previous quotes. I give you a solid 80% out of 100% :)

medeii - What can I say. You resurrected the dead discussion, bringing in some great points, though you immediately felt inclined to disagree with my reasonable post after your entrance (but I take half of the responsibility for not making my reply 100% clear). I also felt you used your knowledge to the extent of being arrogant, but you (most of the time) fairly justified your quotes and (at most) backed your opinions with some decent facts. For that, I respect you. I give you 87% out of 100% :)

The Grey One - The weakest link of the discussion. Let's just look at it this way: You had one very good point at the start, but after that, you just, well, died. That's about it. I give you 60% out of 100%

So I depart all of you with this: Agree to disagree :)

I'm too many pages late to get into the legal discussion here, because, to be honest, Trance Kuja can huff and puff all he wants, but the point is moot. S-E cease-and-desisted, and GH cease-and-desisted. Case closed, for the time being.

I do have a question though:

In Australia, ripping music (even music that you LEGALLY own, such as a store bought CD) to the hard-drive of your computer is illegal. So, if you owned a CD, and then bought an iPod, would you rebuy that CD on iTunes just so you could put it on your iPod 'legally'?

Also, what about CDs that you legally own that are not available on iTunes, or any other online music purchase site? Would you just go without that music that you legally purchased, in order to remain within the bounds of an obviously outdated and ridiculous law?

(I re-enter the thread to reply to the question asked)



In Australia, ripping music (even music that you LEGALLY own, such as a store bought CD) to the hard-drive of your computer is illegal. So, if you owned a CD, and then bought an iPod, would you rebuy that CD on iTunes just so you could put it on your iPod 'legally'?

This is absolutely ridiculous. It IS legal to rip your own music on your computer, as long as you use it for personal purpose and don't share it


Also, what about CDs that you legally own that are not available on iTunes, or any other online music purchase site? Would you just go without that music that you legally purchased, in order to remain within the bounds of an obviously outdated and ridiculous law?

Please refer to my previous explanation.

I'm too many pages late to get into the legal discussion here, because, to be honest, Trance Kuja can huff and puff all he wants, but the point is moot. S-E cease-and-desisted, and GH cease-and-desisted. Case closed, for the time being.

I do have a question though:

In Australia, ripping music (even music that you LEGALLY own, such as a store bought CD) to the hard-drive of your computer is illegal. So, if you owned a CD, and then bought an iPod, would you rebuy that CD on iTunes just so you could put it on your iPod 'legally'?

Also, what about CDs that you legally own that are not available on iTunes, or any other online music purchase site? Would you just go without that music that you legally purchased, in order to remain within the bounds of an obviously outdated and ridiculous law?

that actually has applications that're far more common than you think. OSC brought up the point in a great article on e-piracy I read ages ago.

companies format-shift for a reason that transcends simple technological advanced. how many DVDs have you purchased in which you've actually owned the original VHS tape? what about cassettes and CDs? if you owned a prior format, do you think it's ethical to "steal" the new one?

that sort of thing, to me, really reveals what we've all known for ages: it is not, and never was, about compensating the artists fairly. it's about record and movie companies trying to leech every dollar they can out of you.

thank god we're on optical media now, so backwards compatability won't disappear- but you can bet on those companies trying to make it do just that.

This is absolutely ridiculous. It IS legal to rip your own music on your computer, as long as you use it for personal purpose and don't share it

Haha, you'd think so, wouldn't you?

After all, that's the case in the United States.

I think you'll find that Australia's laws are rather outdated when it comes to internet law. It is not legal to make a copy of a CD in any shape or form - however, it is not usually prosecuted. In Australia, it's technically illegal to tape a movie off the television.

So, I repeat the question: now knowing that the LAW says it is illegal to rip CDs to the computer, will you still do it?

Haha, you'd think so, wouldn't you?

After all, that's the case in the United States.

I think you'll find that Australia's laws are rather outdated when it comes to internet law. It is not legal to make a copy of a CD in any shape or form - however, it is not usually prosecuted. In Australia, it's technically illegal to tape a movie off the television.

So, I repeat the question: now knowing that the LAW says it is illegal to rip CDs to the computer, will you still do it?

Here's my question: Where did you read this, and why do you think they sell blank tapes and CD-R's in local stores?

Haha, you'd think so, wouldn't you?

After all, that's the case in the United States.

we're not that much more enlightened. sure, we can copy CDs legally. we can't legally copy DVDs, though. breaking the encryption is illegal. just wait until encrypted audio optical discs come out, and we'll be in the same situation as you

In GH, where did all the Final Fantasy mp3's go?

i got some music off a little thing called bearshare, its like napster or kazaa, its also free, you should try it out

PS: anyone who thinks downloading mp3s off a file sharing networks is against the law, its not. were not stealing songs from square enix, people just like anyone of us went bought the ff7 soundtrack with their own money, and just ripped the songs to mp3s. but if ya still think its wrong. dont throw us, the downloaders, in the slammer, throw in the people who ripped the songs to mp3s, cuz if anyones committing a crime, its them. :smrt:

The U.S. concept of "fair use" as it applies to time-shifting or space-shifting content is entirely due to the "Betamax" case (Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417, 104 S. Ct. 774, 78 L. Ed. 2d 574 (1984)). Australia, for obvious reasons, does not have that decision as part of its internal case law.


Here's my question: Where did you read this, and why do you think they sell blank tapes and CD-R's in local stores?

Where he read it is irrelevant. As for why they'd sell blank tapes and CD-Rs, there are numerous non-infringing uses for both of those products (namely personal voice recording and data backup.)


we're not that much more enlightened. sure, we can copy CDs legally. we can't legally copy DVDs, though. breaking the encryption is illegal. just wait until encrypted audio optical discs come out, and we'll be in the same situation as you

The loophole, ironically, is that this (the DMCA) does nothing to stop real, organized, wide-scale copyright infringement. DVDs can be copied by re-creating a master and then re-pressing a few million copies, or you can simply stick one in your computer and do an exact, bit-for-bit copy that totally ignores the encryption. It's only when you actually read the file (to play it, or to transcode it) that the DMCA applies.

As a fun example, all the open-source applications for DVD playback or MP3 encoding for Linux have to be hosted outside the U.S., because they violate the DMCA and licensing restrictions respectively. (No company has yet released a commercial, paid product for Linux capable of either of those functions.) Thus, everyone who views a legitimately bought DVD on Linux is violating the DMCA. It's an abysmally stupid law.

As for what I'd do? I'd copy the songs without thinking twice. The record companies are trying to have their cake and eat it too, telling us we bought a "license" to the music (rather than a copy) but then saying we can only use the license in one approved way per purchase.

Couldn't have said it better myself, medeii.

I will answer your question though, until I can find the actual source (i'm reading through copyright law so I can quote the actual passage, but it's a hefty document, and i'm no lawyer). I heard it on the news. I hear it on the radio. It's been covered pretty extensively on Australian news websites. It's a ridiculous, outdated law that is impossible to enforce, but still exists.

I, personally, believe in the free flow of information. All information should be available free to everyone - however, I realise that in a non-utopian society, this doesn't work. Songs and movies cost money to make, therefore the artist should be recompensed.

Personally, I believe going back to an old system where nobles would pay song-writers to produce their music would work. Have a few patrons who are in charge of creating entertainment, that is then provided free of charge to the masses. Lord knows we've got enough multi-billionaires in the world.

Well this is truly something new then. I'll still need to see a passable source for confirmation though. It's funny though, Australia has all these TV adds to stop people from downloading illegal music, I have never heard this law in being illegal for other than sharing. Of course, this law is seriously outdated, or non-existent because of the helping TV recording labels on VCR's. And they actually sell DVD copying tools down here, so there is obviously something missing in everybody’s explanation because just doesn't add up.

The loophole, ironically, is that this (the DMCA) does nothing to stop real, organized, wide-scale copyright infringement. DVDs can be copied by re-creating a master and then re-pressing a few million copies, or you can simply stick one in your computer and do an exact, bit-for-bit copy that totally ignores the encryption. It's only when you actually read the file (to play it, or to transcode it) that the DMCA applies.

well, it really depends on the technology you use. DVD5's are a lot more common and widely used than DVD9's. to transfer a retail DVD9 to a DVD5, you need to break the encryption.

Well this is truly something new then. I'll still need to see a passable source for confirmation though. It's funny though, Australia has all these TV adds to stop people from downloading illegal music, I have never heard this law in being illegal for other than sharing. Of course, this law is seriously outdated, or non-existent because of the helping TV recording labels on VCR's. And they actually sell DVD copying tools down here, so there is obviously something missing in everybody�s explanation because just doesn't add up.

What, it doesn't add up, because in your perfect utopian world, law matches societies concenscience?

For a period of about 5 years, ending about a year ago, no-one gave a second thought about downloading MP3s. It was the new radio, almost - except you could listen to the songs you wanted to, instead of whatever was playing! Right there on your computer!

Then came the advent of Cable internet, and suddenly people could download entire albums. This was terrific, because suddenly people could listen to music that they never would have bought otherwise - check out a band they've never heard before, and then buy their CDs.

Of course, all this wasn't 'illegal' then. Sure, the actual process of ripping MP3s was, but everyone was already taping TV and taping CDs by then anyway, so what did it matter if someone copied a song to their hard-drive instead of a blank tape?

In fact, there was no legal precident until the Universal vs. Sharman case
http://www.copyright.org.au/news/newsbytopic/recentcases/U26147

in which is has been decided in an Australian court that downloading music from P2P networks is stealing. I stopped using LimeWire on that day, and have encouraged all my friends to do so as well, because that ruling combined with our FTA with the US means that we can be arrested for downloading music now.

...all I can say is thank goodness for Azureus, but I digress.

Law and society don't always match up. Thankfully, the police who enforce the law know what's happening in society, and they don't enforce outdated laws. No-one is going to arrest companies for making VCRs that can tape programs off the TV easily, because there's so much on TV that you CAN legally tape - TV shows, for instance, haven't been proven as being under copyright because they are provided free-to-air as is. News and live broadcasts are not necessarily copyright. The only thing it is 'illegal' to tape on VHS is movies - and tbh, who is going to tape a movie if they really want it these days? VHS quality is shocking compared to DVD, and if a movie is being shown on TV, you can bet your bottom dollar it's going for cheap at your local DVD store.

I respect that in your eyes, you're trying to do the right thing. But you really have no right to make that decision for others.

No-one is going to arrest companies for making VCRs that can tape programs off the TV easily, because there's so much on TV that you CAN legally tape - TV shows

..which is exactly my point from the beginning.


I respect that in your eyes, you're trying to do the right thing. But you really have no right to make that decision for others.

However, by downloading music, VGM or general, you're making an automatic decision to help record companies’ loose money, thus it connects to your quote by having "no right to make the decision for others." So your post can be expanded on both sides :)

Maybe if the huge record companies, and the RIAA, didn't come across as giant untouchable 'we're better than you' entities, people would feel the need to take as much.

Take for instance Serenity - out of respect for Joss Whedon, the experts at movie piracy (ie, the ones that break into a cinema and steal the laser disc, so you can get DVD rips in your own home when it's still playing at the multiplex) refused to copy the movie. They believe that it deserves to be purchased.

It's the same with Square-Enix - we are pretty much ignored by them here in Australia. We get the games months late, and there has yet to be an FF OST released in an Australian store. Show me the music store in Brisbane that sells them - FOR A DECENT PRICE (the problem with importing is that CDs can cost up to $50-60, which is ridiculous) - and i'll by them all in a heartbeat.

Until then, i'll listen to my MP3s quite happily, thank you. After all, I bought Final Fantasy VII - therefore, I bought the right to listen to its soundtrack. The fact that I recieved the soundtrack in MP3 form from a website doesn't change the fact that i'm still listening to something I have the right to legally listen to.

It's the same with Square-Enix - we are pretty much ignored by them here in Australia.

Ah, the 'we get everything late' debate. While I agree, there has to be a large deal of necessary things to complete before a successful release is in order. If we, including Europe, got everything in unison to the rest of the world, the release dates would be majorly pushed back, which wouldn't be a favorable decision for anybody, including the company. It's also a problem because of the small market down here. We simply don't purchase nearly enough games in comparison to the other markets of the world, and this is based on scale perspective (i.e. If Australia had 100,000 out of 1,000,000 people, and America had 1,000,000 out of 10,000,000 people, who bought games, then both would be an equal amount of games sold, though in the case explained before, it is the opposite). It's also because of this, that we don't get some of the good games that sold many copies elsewhere in the world.


We get the games months late, and there has yet to be an FF OST released in an Australian store. Show me the music store in Brisbane that sells them - FOR A DECENT PRICE (the problem with importing is that CDs can cost up to $50-60, which is ridiculous) - and i'll by them all in a heartbeat.

A similar problem previously explained in the quote before, is in occurrence to the Australia VGM market. Simply, not enough interest for VGM, and I don't see them releasing VGM in the market anywhere in the near future. To add on, the problem with importing VGM from overseas is that you don't know if you will be receiving a bootleg for the amount of money (usually $50-60, like you said) that you pay, especially when bootlegs cost only around $3 per disc. I'd rather not take that risk, and I'd hope you agree with me. Also, I live in Melbourne, so I can't help you with your search in Brisbane, although I wouldn't buy any OST you find unless you're absolutely certain that it is real ;)


Until then, i'll listen to my MP3s quite happily, thank you. After all, I bought Final Fantasy VII - therefore, I bought the right to listen to its soundtrack. The fact that I recieved the soundtrack in MP3 form from a website doesn't change the fact that i'm still listening to something I have the right to legally listen to.

As said earlier in the debate, owning the game and owning the soundtrack are completely different things, legally and logically. If you bought the game, then you have a right to download the game, but if you bought the OST, then you have the right to download the OST, though this is but my own belief.

Come on fellas, We all know these types of sites last as long as they can, but alwasy get yanked. The best you can do is get as much as you can, while you can. The reassuring thing is, if you wait a few months, another site just like this, (though I doubt as through or well done) will pop up.

we recieved a cease and desist letter from square-enix and were essentially forced to remove them.

if you're discontent with this (as many people are), we urge you to contact them. emails work, but regular letters are a lot more effective.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! (well at least I could get some FFVII: AC songs)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Yeh its quite depressing...

Sweet merry mojo on a pogo stick!

I watch a flash movie, hear the battle theme from advent children, talk to the creator of the series the flash is from, ask for a copy, he links me to the site...I click around, accidently go to 'Advent Rising', download the wrong song, look around some more, don't find any FF music. I click some of the affiliate links, find nothing there, go back, click one of the forum topic links, no help there. THEN I go to the main forum, click on this topic, and what do I find?

Some information about Square-Enix being ANAL TO THE EXTREME! Dear lord. Not only that but after 8 or so pages of arguing, nothing in the debate has changed accept for the fact that Kuja has gone from the offensive to the defensive in his arguments.

....that's pretty messed up. Not Rodney King messed up, but messed up. I guess I'll have to get the song directly sent to me from my author friend. After which, if anyone wants a copy, AIM me.

Well, I hope its not too late to say your a tool trance kuja...I would feel big and strong talking like you online, in a forum, where you can log out and thats that...

Well, I hope its not too late to say your a tool trance kuja...I would feel big and strong talking like you online, in a forum, where you can log out and thats that...

Hmm, Am I tool for stating my own opinion? In that case, you're a tool too.

shit this is fun

I'm 18. I'm going to college. I don't have time for a job. I carpool (gas prices are extreme). I sometimes get games when they come out, sometimes later. However, I lack the funds for soundtracks. So...

1.) I have the games. Thus, I have the music, right?
2.) Square-Enix ALREADY makes more than enough money on their games. Their music is second place.
3.) I can't AFFORD to buy soundtracks, or I already have the music.
4.) Some soundtracks are only in Japan.

Trance Kuja, you're an ass. Are you really an egotistical 14-year old know-it-all, or a polititian against software piracy in any way, sex and violence in video games, and anything RESEMBLING the freedom of speech? Hmmm...Square Enix is being anal, you're being anal. And watch. You're going to quote and reply and try to undermine my points, and to what point? As Sarah said, you're in the minority. If you're a Christian, don't preach in a mosque. 'nuff said.

Yeah, I was wondering where those mp3s went! Luckily I downloaded all of my favourites before Square stopped you guys. There are still a few I would have liked to get but at least I got most of them. SQUARE ENIX YOU ARE AS BAD AS LUCASARTS NOW! YOU WEREN'T BEFORE BUT NOW YOU ARE! YOU ARE PISSING OFF YOUR FANS AND BEING GREEDY! SHAME ON YOU!

There are still a few I would have liked to get but at least I got most of them.

Which ones are you looking for? I could probably redirect you to other sources, but tell me what you are looking for first.


SQUARE ENIX YOU ARE AS BAD AS LUCASARTS NOW! YOU WEREN'T BEFORE BUT NOW YOU ARE! YOU ARE PISSING OFF YOUR FANS AND BEING GREEDY! SHAME ON YOU!

Lol, Well it is their copywrited stuff, so I guess it is fair enough that they wanted them taken down.
But yes, I was very upset too. :'(

-Music at the Tower of Babil (ff4)
-Music when you fight Zeromus (ff4)
-Sending a dream into the universe (ff7)
-The mako cannon is fired-shinra explodes (ff7)
-The music that plays in the cutscene at the beginning of ff6
-Battle theme (ff6)

If you can find these songs in the original sound format (sounding like they do in the games) I would be very happy. Thanks for offering links, if you can find them.

All of them can be found here, just click on the ost which has the songs you want and get them :D

http://bluelaguna.net/pages/selectmp3.php

The only one they do not have is:


The music that plays in the cutscene at the beginning of ff6
Enjoy

Thanks a lot nkwp.

i know that squares cease & desist order has prevent gh from making FF mp3's available, but will that also apply to other FF media, such as the FMV's?

(i know that gh has uploaded FF art and sheet music so im guessing that the answer is no, it doesnt apply to them, but i would appreciate comfirmation from someone who knows)

short answer: we do not know how far the C&D extends.

ok, thnx anyway

This may have already been asked before...

But I'm curious, aren't there other soundtracks from square-enix on the site, and not just Final Fantasy?

If that's so, why didn't they want it all removed, instead of just targeting Final Fantasy. I guess it makes a little sense...

Once again sorrry if I'm being a little redundant. I came in late ^^''

they only asked for the final fantasy & front mission mp3s to be removed. hell if I know why !

Ok first of all I will try to keep this short, I came looking on the forms to find out why the FF MP3s are gone, and I find it a very sad and unfortinue day that S-E would do this. Square was litterally saved by their fans from coprate down fall... I forget where I heard this, but the actual reason Final Fantasy was entiled Final Fantasy was it was the last game Square Soft could aforid to make and they were giving it one last try before going bankrupt. The fans loved it and we saved a company from a bitter and in my oppion harsh and undeserving end. To think that a company who owes so much to it's fans would do this, When they don't even put out a decent atempt to enter or supply the market for there sound tracks is disheartening.

I will only say this once, the whole reason I began downloading music was because I could not find VGM in local stores at the time, and for 2 years it remained my Sole dled music, apart from what friends sent me...I swear if people didn't have file sending trouble it would probably Still be the only kind of music I download, but I digress.

Far from wanting to enter the debate myself though the debate is an art form I truely enjoy, I will abstine knowing that my setiments are brilantly stated by Medeii. I find your particular post the most insightful and might I say ammusing as well as educational. I'm a 3rd year Psychology student who was considering a Law degree for most of his childhood and I find your input enlightening and enjoyable.

Now to Sarah, you have choosen for yourself a great enemy if you truely intend to fight S-E, but I wish you well and am sorry I can't lend as much moral support as I would like, but I have friends and in family who play Final Fantasy XI, (Also known as Final Fantasy Online) and could not bare to leave them.

In closing I would like to say, Square Soft and Exinx were and are great game designers in there own right, but I have always thought poorly of the merger because I thought it was the death Kneel of SquareSoft. In some ways I believe I'm right under S-E, Square seems to have forgotten it's fans the people who saved a company from ruin, in some respects maybe it would of been better had the dieing company died rather then merge, and if no company was in trouble I have to question the reason for such a merge in the first place. But now I ramble on and what was ment to be a short thank you for a good read and a job well done has turned into something much longer then it's creator had intended, but then I Had intended to Sleep this night too and it's already 7:28 AM, so I guess you can imagine how often I follow through with intents.

To Recap:

Good work Medeii, Sarah and to the few others I did not mention you did good too but I simply must sleep before I pass out and don't have time to mention you by name... Trance Kuja, if you have not surmised, it means guessed I understand you have trouble with some higher level vocabulary and I would not want to leave you guessing as to what I am saying, you are Not on the list of people I wish to thank.

Now I best go before I do something else I did not mean to do and launch my own, mostly unfounded, personal attack on anyone. This message was not ment to insult anyone mearly as a thank you, and a "I apprecaite your work and time you put forth into this debate." Now having said that I will bid you all good day as I go sleep, with any lucky you may hear from me in a week, or never again, I typically dislike forums and am not a very avid poster, unless there is a good Roleplay invovled.

PS

If I reawaken this topic from it's well deserved Eternal Rest, please forgive me.

That's a very solid argument you've got there Alex, very solid. Hit the nail right on the head.

hey guys, sorry If I bring back this might-have-been-dead topic, I just want to ask, was Square actually this harsh when it's still labeled squaresoft? didnt they send dease & cesist letter to certain sites hosting the FF music? (like now... which make fans sad of course, but hey, there are much songs better than FF!)

I'm extremely confused on this issue. I could've sworn just yesterday the FF music returned, and then now today it's gone again. What's up?

Trance Kuja, if you have not surmised, it means guessed I understand you have trouble with some higher level vocabulary and I would not want to leave you guessing as to what I am saying, you are Not on the list of people I wish to thank.

No, I was banned for stating my own opinion. Quite unfortunate really, especially since this forum allows no free speech without consequence. I'm guessing the reason you don't wish to thank me is because you don't agree with my opinion. That's fine; you don't need to state that you don't want to thank me by the way, though you won't be respected with a closed mind. My vocabulary is fine.

EDIT: Unless I'm mistaken, it states on GH that downloads are growing every day. Doesn't that say something, Sarah? And if people donate to you, but can't be bothered buying the original CD, then something is completely wrong with that person. It shows and proves that people would rather download than buy.

EDIT 2: I find this hilarious:


Not only that, but frequently imported CDs are often bootlegs themselves- and the artists, record labels, and copyright holders earn no money from their sales.

As of August 2005, not a single company has contacted us. Hopefully this will give you some peace of mind.

P.S - I'm sick of all the people praising Sarah for all the 'work' she has done. If anything, thank the composers instead.

Gods, you're still kavitching?

Thank you, Sarah, for all the work you have done. I only have ONE soundtrack which I do not own the game for, and the only thing spiffy is the last three songs. But, seeing as I have the games, I'm entitled to the music. And she's made it possible to get music that, technically, I already own. I will NOT thank the company, because I want to be able to listen to the music when I want if I get the game, not shell out another $30.00. And I won't thank the composers in one respect, either. They're in it for the money. I DO thank them for the quality. Same with Faye Wong for "Eyes on Me". She was paid one million for it, but the song is still my favorite. I'd rather donate to Sarah for making something I should get for free normally, free.

Plus - why wouldn't people rather download than buy? It's cheaper, and I'd imagine a good deal of people here don't exactly rake in the cash.

And why do you find that hilarious? The companies don't make their money on oft-unseen soundtracks, they make it on the games. They have better things to do than go after independent groups. For the most part. Square-Enix is the exception.

And another thing - they let the Kingdom Hearts stuff stay? As well as other stuff? Why?

Gods, you're still kavitching?

No, you revived the topic. You're the one kavitching (what the hell does it even mean?!).


Thank you, Sarah, for all the work you have done. I only have ONE soundtrack which I do not own the game for, and the only thing spiffy is the last three songs. But, seeing as I have the games, I'm entitled to the music.

Yes, you are legally entitled to the music, BUT through means of playing the game. Think of it as the composers way to advertise. However, since the music and the game have separate legal agreements, you don't have rights to the music OUTSIDE of the game, unless you own a Soundtrack.


And she's made it possible to get music that, technically, I already own.

Funny though, I thought buying things was possible too. I guess that's a thing of the past now. (Plus, you do not own the music, you own the game. I thought this was made VERY clear by now).


And I won't thank the composers in one respect, either. They're in it for the money.

Because you know these composers SOOOOO well, you OBVIOUSLY know this stuff. Heh, this is continued by:


I DO thank them for the quality.

So, basically, the composers get paid a fairly decent sum of money to make people happy with their quality music. I thought that's what the music world is all about, unless I can be proven wrong. This is, again, followed by this:


Same with Faye Wong for "Eyes on Me". She was paid one million for it, but the song is still my favorite.

So you're saying that it's OK for Faye Wong to be paid a large sum of money (which, from your figure, is largely inaccurate and untruthful) because she sung one of your favorite songs, then say it isn't OK for other people to be paid large sums of money to create quality music (which you also self-contradicted by saying you thank the artists for their quality music).


I'd rather donate to Sarah for making something I should get for free normally, free.

Heh, so what you're saying is you'd rather pay Sarah for something you'd find for free, but you wouldn't pay a reliable trader for a real Soundtrack who, in general truth, only wants some honest cash (unlike Sarah)? That's.....strange.


Plus - why wouldn't people rather download than buy? It's cheaper, and I'd imagine a good deal of people here don't exactly rake in the cash.

Well, buying supports the artists and helps the VGM market move foreword. Downloading does the complete opposite of this.


And why do you find that hilarious? The companies don't make their money on oft-unseen soundtracks, they make it on the games.

If they didn't make money on the Soundtracks, why do they release them? Please use some basic intelligence. Companies CAN do two things at once, you know.


They have better things to do than go after independent groups. For the most part. Square-Enix is the exception.

So people that play games aren't apart of an 'independent group'? Of course, Square Enix is the only company that goes after these groups [/sarcasm]


And another thing - they let the Kingdom Hearts stuff stay? As well as other stuff? Why?

Because it was Square Enix USA that asked to remove the OSTs.

Yes, you are legally entitled to the music, BUT through means of playing the game. Think of it as the composers way to advertise. However, since the music and the game have separate legal agreements, you don't have rights to the music OUTSIDE of the game, unless you own a Soundtrack.

sorry, but that's absolute bullshit, and it wouldn't stand up in court.

when you buy the game, you're free to do more or less whatever you want with that data (within reason- ie, you're not going to be free to make copies and sell them). extracting data from them and listening to them? that is not illegal, not even close to it.

what gh does is pretty simple: most people don't know how to rip the music from games, so we take that step for them.

sorry, but that's absolute bullshit, and it wouldn't stand up in court.

when you buy the game, you're free to do more or less whatever you want with that data (within reason- ie, you're not going to be free to make copies and sell them). extracting data from them and listening to them? that is not illegal, not even close to it.

what gh does is pretty simple: most people don't know how to rip the music from games, so we take that step for them.

My statement would actually stand up in court very well because it is true. I don't see how it wouldn't.

When you buy a game, you buy it for the game to play on that particular system. You'd be interested to know that it is actually prohibited to extract any data from the disc in the first place, pretty much abolishing the chances of your statement standing in court, and, favoring mine. That said, the music belongs to the composer who rightfully owns and copyrights the material. So if this ever went to court, I believe I would have a better chance of surviving, though I believe both of us would be screwed over in the end.

Heh, since when does GH rip the music anyway? Lies. You download and supply for others. I think that's court material.

I figure it would be perfectly fine for you to rip music off a disc if you didn't do so to SELL it to others.
I don't believe sarah ever said she ripped the music personally, she just gathers rips from places so they can be found easier.

You'd be interested to know that it is actually prohibited to extract any data from the disc in the first place.

bullshit. where the hell are you getting this stuff from?

not to mention that, you know, if I was ripping FMVs and distributing them (which I plan on doing !) I somehow don't think it'd be a very big deal to you. they are essentially the same thing legally.

if any game company doesn't want things distributed, all they need to do is contact me, and I'll stop distributing it. it's that simple. why you are getting your panties in a wad over this is still really beyond me, especially considering that I'm more than willing to comply with the wishes of the companies.

bullshit. where the hell are you getting this stuff from?

From the back of PS2 game cover. I believe that says it all.


not to mention that, you know, if I was ripping FMVs and distributing them (which I plan on doing !) I somehow don't think it'd be a very big deal to you. they are essentially the same thing legally.

I really don't care much for FMVs. Do what you please with them, though I'm not sure if they are as complicated legally as MP3s and music


if any game company doesn't want things distributed, all they need to do is contact me, and I'll stop distributing it. it's that simple. why you are getting your panties in a wad over this is still really beyond me, especially considering that I'm more than willing to comply with the wishes of the companies.

Un-bold part: I've made my points pretty clear in many of the previous posts. Downloading hurts composers, composers need money. That simple. And don't reply with the same 'we are helping VGM grow because we help people hear it and they buy it' bullshit because it aint true (look at Mahare's post for truth, and I'm pretty sure a fuck load of people share his viewpoint, unfortunately).

Bold part: Then why the earlier hostility and plotted vengeance against Square Enix? :p


I don't believe sarah ever said she ripped the music personally, she just gathers rips from places so they can be found easier.

Unless she was implying something different from this post, I'm convinced that she did imply she were to rip the music:


what gh does is pretty simple: most people don't know how to rip the music from games, so we take that step for them.

From the back of PS2 game cover. I believe that says it all.

and? this doesn't make it law, dear.

VHS tapes say that any unauthorized reproduction is forbidden. ie, you can't make a backup. guess what? you're legally allowed to. it's been contested in court.


I really don't care much for FMVs. Do what you please with them, though I'm not sure if they are as complicated legally as MP3s and music

... so in other words, this has nothing to do with principles, and everything to do with you being an elitist twat. ^^


Un-bold part: I've made my points pretty clear in many of the previous posts. Downloading hurts composers, composers need money. That simple. And don't reply with the same 'we are helping VGM grow because we help people hear it and they buy it' bullshit because it aint true (look at Mahare's post for truth, and I'm pretty sure a fuck load of people share his viewpoint, unfortunately).

"pretty sure," eh? this sure makes you an authority on this topic ! I run the site, I get dozens of emails every day. guess what the majority of them are? "I couldn't find this out of print soundtrack anywhere, not even on ebay. thank you so much" and "I wasn't even aware it was possible to get music from this game" and even questions asking me where they can buy stuff.

I think it's safe to say I know a bit more about gh's visitors than you.


Bold part: Then why the earlier hostility and plotted vengeance against Square Enix?

there's a difference between kindly asking that I remove them and using legal scare tactics. I don't respect the latter. in fact, it just tempts me to defy them <3


Unless she was implying something different from this post, I'm convinced that she did imply she were to rip the music:

all that sentence meant to state was that we give them the rips so they don't need to do the ripping themselves. some rips are donated, some I do, some I download.

and? this doesn't make it law, dear.

VHS tapes say that any unauthorized reproduction is forbidden. ie, you can't make a backup. guess what? you're legally allowed to. it's been contested in court.

Of course, since you know every single law in existence, please provide proof where your sentence states so?

I'm pretty sure they put those things on the back of the boxes for a reason.

(Also, VHS doesn't equal Video Games. Different laws apply.)



... so in other words, this has nothing to do with principles, and everything to do with you being an elitist twat. ^^

Umm, no. It IS possible for someone to care for something and not care for another thing. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT?! ZOMG!


"pretty sure," eh? this sure makes you an authority on this topic ! I run the site, I get dozens of emails every day. guess what the majority of them are? "I couldn't find this out of print soundtrack anywhere, not even on ebay. thank you so much" and "I wasn't even aware it was possible to get music from this game" and even questions asking me where they can buy stuff.

I think it's safe to say I know a bit more about gh's visitors than you.

Care to provide one of these emails for quoted truth? Heh, you DO you know that a vast majority of people just download from the site. Despite how many emails you receive, and taking in how many visitors you claim visit the site daily, you can only assume that a vast majority just download. Emails only tell you so much.


there's a difference between kindly asking that I remove them and using legal scare tactics. I don't respect the latter. in fact, it just tempts me to defy them <3

But weren't you in discussion with Square Enix when GH just launched? Surely they would've asked for you to remove them first before jumping to legal scare tactics?


all that sentence meant to state was that we give them the rips so they don't need to do the ripping themselves. some rips are donated, some I do, some I download.

Since when has the focus of GH suddenly changed to ripping? What about the downloads of the illegal soundtracks? Why are we shutting them from existence?

Umm, no. It IS possible for someone to care for something and not care for another thing. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT?! ZOMG!
While caring for mp3's and caring for FMV's are two different things, caring for the creators is not. You say that people downloading these mp3s for free is bad as it does not give the creators (conductors) any money. So why is it any different with FMV's, they DO need to get paid for what they do, and while they may not be as important to people as the mp3's that CAN be bought on soundtracks, downloading the fmv's could still be considered thieving by your way of thinking

While caring for mp3's and caring for FMV's are two different things, caring for the creators is not. You say that people downloading these mp3s for free is bad as it does not give the creators (conductors) any money. So why is it any different with FMV's, they DO need to get paid for what they do, and while they may not be as important to people as the mp3's that CAN be bought on soundtracks, downloading the fmv's could still be considered thieving by your way of thinking

The reason I don't care for FMVs is that they don't interest me. The FMV creators' job is potentially done with the game's development. They don't receive or loose money if the movie is downloaded. A composer, on the other hand, receives unlimited benefits from the Soundtrack (if released) after the game's completion.

Of course, since you know every single law in existence, please provide proof where your sentence states so?

I'm pretty sure they put those things on the back of the boxes for a reason.

(Also, VHS doesn't equal Video Games. Different laws apply.)

no, different laws do not apply. fair use is fair use, regardless of format. however, fair use is a US notion, so I guess you can't be held responsible for not knowing much about it.

anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._v._Universal_City_Studios


It IS possible for someone to care for something and not care for another thing.

when the two things are fundamentally identical, that's called hypocrisy. =)


Care to provide one of these emails for quoted truth? Heh, you DO you know that a vast majority of people just download from the site. Despite how many emails you receive, and taking in how many visitors you claim visit the site daily, you can only assume that a vast majority just download. Emails only tell you so much.

here you go:



Hello, Webmaster.

My name is Andre and I am a South African game soundtrack fan. The content of your site is absolutely awesome! It's great to get rips of games. My personal favourite composers are Giacchino, Soule, and Kyd.

I feel that I must make a contribution to this site, but prefer not to upload music. I would prefer to make a data cd hard copy of some of my personal game rips that are not on this site yet. Do you habve a postal adress that I can send this to?

For example, I have Jeremy Soule's WARHAMMER 40K: DAWN OF WAR in 65 mins of music game rip, which is a lot more than the 30 min promo that was available on the special edition version of the game. I will see what other stuff I have that you dont have, early in the new year.

Thank you for a great site,
Andre


that was just yesterday ~


But weren't you in discussion with Square Enix when GH just launched? Surely they would've asked for you to remove them first before jumping to legal scare tactics?

no, we were never in discussion with them. (I did, however, notice that they were browsing the site). the first email I got from them was the scare-tactic one. bullying around people legally doesn't win points with me.

for example, the oneups emailed me and kindly asked me to remove their CDs. I did.

at some point I may put square-enix's back up. am I going to put the oneups' cds back up? hell no <3 they've got manners. I respect that.


Since when has the focus of GH suddenly changed to ripping? What about the downloads of the illegal soundtracks? Why are we shutting them from existence?

the far majority of what's on GH are soundtracks that're no longer available, gamerips, or soundtracks that're not available domestically. I feel all these fall under fair use.

no, different laws do not apply. fair use is fair use, regardless of format. however, fair use is a US notion, so I guess you can't be held responsible for not knowing much about it.

I believe there are certain rules which apply to Video Games which don't to VHS. Fair Use isn't the only law that exists.


when the two things are fundamentally identical, that's called hypocrisy.

Yeah, they sure are. I mean, come on, FMV and Music are identical! [sarcasm] I hope you realize they are completely different ON ALL LEVELS.

As for the email, this proved what of my claim?


no, we were never in discussion with them. (I did, however, notice that they were browsing the site). the first email I got from them was the scare-tactic one. bullying around people legally doesn't win points with me.

Oh, OK...What's this then? (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=523362&postcount=27)


the far majority of what's on GH are soundtracks that're no longer available, gamerips, or soundtracks that're not available domestically. I feel all these fall under fair use.

I wouldn't say the far majority, but a lot are. And while you 'feel' it falls under fair use, it seriously doesn't. Need I remind you of medeii's justification of the topic? 3 of the 4 categories were in favor of Square Enix with 1 topic undecided.

I believe there are certain rules which apply to Video Games which don't to VHS. Fair Use isn't the only law that exists.

explain why on earth you think fair use would apply to vhs but not video games? namely, that you're not allowed to extract data from your cd which you purchased.


Yeah, they sure are. I mean, come on, FMV and Music are identical! [sarcasm] I hope you realize they are completely different ON ALL LEVELS.

I didn't say they were identical, I say they're fundamentally the same. there's no reason why the same principles wouldn't apply. if you don't understand the difference between the two please stop replying; it's hurting my head to deal with someone this dumb ;-;;


Oh, OK...What's this then?

sorry I didn't specify. "them" = square enix legal.


I wouldn't say the far majority, but a lot are. And while you 'feel' it falls under fair use, it seriously doesn't. Need I remind you of medeii's justification of the topic? 3 of the 4 categories were in favor of Square Enix with 1 topic undecided.

need I remind you of the conclusion we reached then? medeii isn't a judge, neither am I, and neither are you: it's up to a judge to call, not you. I am confident enough that what I am doing falls under fair use that I'm willing to put my financial ass on the line. I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing. you might as well give up, really.


The reason I don't care for FMVs is that they don't interest me. The FMV creators' job is potentially done with the game's development. They don't receive or loose money if the movie is downloaded. A composer, on the other hand, receives unlimited benefits from the Soundtrack (if released) after the game's completion.

...

you seem to have almost no concept of the law, to be honest. most games, particularly most older games, have soundtracks that were done as "works under hire" which included absolutely no royalties. those soundtracks, when published, do not earn the composer a dime.

this has changed slightly in recent times. but it's still hardly most games. and even then, it's only stuff out of japan that isn't done as a work for hire.

M'kay. I can buy a book. What's to stop me from burning it? I can buy a computer game. What's to stop me from burning all of the music to CD, considering most of the time, it's readily availible to burn. I can buy a game CD. Whth the right tools, what's to stop me from getting the music from those? Frankly, what Sarah is doing is saving me a lot of hassle of trying to get the stuff on my own.

And reliable sources for the music? You mean those places that charge more money for the soundtrack than the game now? Or those random websites that are oh-so-reliable (/sarcasm)? And most likely the composer gets chicken scratch from the music, now. Did you noticed that most of the music is dated? Probably not. And they get most of their money via the games.

And about the composers - do you seriously think that they'd design music for games if they weren't paid as much as they were? Frankly, I like the music, but IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. That's what they care about, for the most part, I'd imagine.

explain why on earth you think fair use would apply to vhs but not video games? namely, that you're not allowed to extract data from your cd which you purchased.

Did I say it didn't apply to Video Games? No.


I didn't say they were identical, I say they're fundamentally the same. there's no reason why the same principles wouldn't apply. if you don't understand the difference between the two please stop replying; it's hurting my head to deal with someone this dumb ;-;;

Let me rephrase your sentence in basic terms: "when the two things are basically identical, that's called hypocrisy." - I'm not sure what ese you mean?

The same principles don't apply. Different workloads, different payroll, different audience, etc. I think I have the right NOT to be interested in it and not be called a hypocrite. Heh, you're dumb for calling else dumb when they just proved you wrong.



need I remind you of the conclusion we reached then? medeii isn't a judge, neither am I, and neither are you: it's up to a judge to call, not you. I am confident enough that what I am doing falls under fair use that I'm willing to put my financial ass on the line. I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing. you might as well give up, really.

Yes, I realized this, however, medeii clearly pointed out that IF FFShrine WERE to go to court, the favor would be in Square Enix.



you seem to have almost no concept of the law, to be honest. most games, particularly most older games, have soundtracks that were done as "works under hire" which included absolutely no royalties. those soundtracks, when published, do not earn the composer a dime.

this has changed slightly in recent times. but it's still hardly most games. and even then, it's only stuff out of japan that isn't done as a work for hire.

Because you work so closely to Video Games and such, you know this stuff?. Basically, the companies that composers didn't earn anything from were Falcom (which still happens today), in some cases, Konami, in some cases, Capcom, Taito, in some cases Square, and a few other companies. Basically, this law only applied to the sound teams back then. While some of the sound teams still do exist today (Falcom Sound Team JDK (Falcom), Zuntata (Taito), and Square Enix, a majority of composers work for profit and get the full benefit of an album release (especially within Taito). This is known information from the companies.

What makes Japan so special that it relies on work for hire anyway?

Of course, neither of us ACTUALLY know what goes on with this 'work for hire', so neither of us can talk.


M'kay. I can buy a book. What's to stop me from burning it? I can buy a computer game. What's to stop me from burning all of the music to CD, considering most of the time, it's readily availible to burn. I can buy a game CD. Whth the right tools, what's to stop me from getting the music from those? Frankly, what Sarah is doing is saving me a lot of hassle of trying to get the stuff on my own.

What Sarah is doing is providing other people with copyrighted work. It's illegal.


And reliable sources for the music? You mean those places that charge more money for the soundtrack than the game now? Or those random websites that are oh-so-reliable (/sarcasm)? And most likely the composer gets chicken scratch from the music, now. Did you noticed that most of the music is dated? Probably not. And they get most of their money via the games.

It's not the seller’s fault that the set price is, mostly, high. There are handfuls of reliable websites. If you looked, you could find plenty. What do you mean the music is 'dated'? And they get a good load of money through their CONTRIBUTION to the game's development, with the rest via other means.


And about the composers - do you seriously think that they'd design music for games if they weren't paid as much as they were? Frankly, I like the music, but IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. That's what they care about, for the most part, I'd imagine.

Shut up. You do NOT have the right to say this when, frankly, you aren't these composers. If you like the music then criticize the composers for 'making the tunes because of the money' then you're both dumb and pathetic because that's how the world runs: on money. Of course, you do realize this in adjacent with your above remark:


And most likely the composer gets chicken scratch from the music, now.

So they get paid oh so much, but now they get nothing for the music? Contradiction?

What Sarah is doing is providing other people with copyrighted work. It's illegal.

I know, I've heard you, time and time again. You say one thing, Sarah says another. You're never going to agree.



It's not the seller�s fault that the set price is, mostly, high. There are handfuls of reliable websites. If you looked, you could find plenty. What do you mean the music is 'dated'? And they get a good load of money through their CONTRIBUTION to the game's development, with the rest via other means.

Dated. Old. Not new. So what your saying is, due to the game, they get their money? So why sell the soundtracks at such high prices? And let me see...on a good deal of reliable websites, you'd find yourself hard-put to find, say...Ogre Battle. Or the Lost Disk for Ocarina of Time.



Shut up. You do NOT have the right to say this when, frankly, you aren't these composers. If you like the music then criticize the composers for 'making the tunes because of the money' then you're both dumb and pathetic because that's how the world runs: on money.

Hey...first amendment. I have the right to say this, given the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Both dumb and pathetic...brave words coming from you. Frankly, they get enough to do much more than survive on just the games alone. This music being priced so high doesn't really help them, though, because it's a bad marketing strategy..




So they get paid oh so much, but now they get nothing for the music? Contradiction?

Look. The soundtracks are costing a lot of money. And now, the ones I'm talking about, the Zelda ones and the Final Fantasy ones...they're not exactly selling like Coca-Cola now. Guess how much the Ocarina of Time soundtrack is at Amazon? That's right! $50! And the Ogre Battle soundtrack? Oh, wait, it's not there!

Plus - better marketing strategy! Sell them cheaper! You could sell 10 for $10 in the time you sell 1 for $50! Wow! They'd make more money, but we'd spend less! Amazing!

I expect you to come back with why I'm an immoral bastard for downloading music, but you're not the one to describe morals. I'll admit, neither am I. You have an opinion vastly different than others. Expect it to be attacked every once in a while.

You bore me. Thus, I'm going to stop arguing with you (from this point on, this post doesn't count). You're just not worth any more of my time.

I know, I've heard you, time and time again. You say one thing, Sarah says another. You're never going to agree.

Which is the point of debating.



Dated. Old. Not new. So what your saying is, due to the game, they get their money? So why sell the soundtracks at such high prices? And let me see...on a good deal of reliable websites, you'd find yourself hard-put to find, say...Ogre Battle. Or the Lost Disk for Ocarina of Time.

What's your point in saying that the music is dated? Because it's not up to the composers to choose what price it sells. It's up for the sound team to create the music, the sound quality, the synthisizer samples. It's up to the company and the publisher to decide these prices. There's a good reason WHY you won't find those OSTs by simply searching: they are OOP. However, these things aren't rare on eBay, just keep watch for bootlegs.



Hey...first amendment. I have the right to say this, given the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Both dumb and pathetic...brave words coming from you. Frankly, they get enough to do much more than survive on just the games alone. This music being priced so high doesn't really help them, though, because it's a bad marketing strategy..

You have the right to speak, yes, you don't have the right to make comments on things that you have absoloutly no clue about. The average composer gets, on average, about $1000 per minute of music. Why do I know this? I have friends trying to enter the VGM industry who know the average payroll. If you think that's a lot of money, then you seriously don't know much about jobs, money and work. The music is meant for Japanese purchase, solely. The average 2 - 3 disc VGM CD costs about $35 ($45 including shipping). If that's a lot of money, then you don't earn enough. Hardly a bad marketing strategy when a whole bunch Japanese folk walk into shops daily and pick up their favorite VGM works.


Look. The soundtracks are costing a lot of money. And now, the ones I'm talking about, the Zelda ones and the Final Fantasy ones...they're not exactly selling like Coca-Cola now. Guess how much the Ocarina of Time soundtrack is at Amazon? That's right! $50! And the Ogre Battle soundtrack? Oh, wait, it's not there!

Are you kidding? Final Fantasy and Zelda CDs sell like crazy in Japan! Oh, and don't buy from American import sites. That's rule #1. They charge import prices. Guess how much the OoT OST is from where I purchase it from? $27. Notice the difference? The Ogre Battle 64 Soundtrack has been long OOP, and is uncommen now. eBay is your friend (beware of bootlegs).


Plus - better marketing strategy! Sell them cheaper! You could sell 10 for $10 in the time you sell 1 for $50! Wow! They'd make more money, but we'd spend less! Amazing!

*Sigh* Neither of us know what goes behind the scenes, so neither of us can comment.


I expect you to come back with why I'm an immoral bastard for downloading music, but you're not the one to describe morals. I'll admit, neither am I. You have an opinion vastly different than others. Expect it to be attacked every once in a while.

I have never said to anybody that they are an 'immoral bastard'. Vice Versa to you on your opinion as well.


You bore me. Thus, I'm going to stop arguing with you (from this point on, this post doesn't count). You're just not worth any more of my time.

You bore me in as much respect. You're the one proving to be extremely void of what goes on in this world. You weren't worth arguing with in the first place.

Whoops, delete me.

The Ogre Battle 64 Soundtrack has been long OOP, and is uncommen now. GH is your friend (beware of trance kuja).

fix'd ~

Well, yeah, I don't earn enough. And I'd pay that much for a game, but not a soundtrack. Queen's Greatest Hits, one of my favorite music CDs, is nine dollars. Multiply that by three? 27 dollars for three disks. As opposed to 35 dollars for a 2-3 disk soundtrack, 45 with shipping and handling. I spent about 45 on Soul Calibur 3 recently. There's no chance I could afford just the music for that price...

Well, yeah, I don't earn enough. And I'd pay that much for a game, but not a soundtrack. Queen's Greatest Hits, one of my favorite music CDs, is nine dollars. Multiply that by three? 27 dollars for three disks. As opposed to 35 dollars for a 2-3 disk soundtrack, 45 with shipping and handling. I spent about 45 on Soul Calibur 3 recently. There's no chance I could afford just the music for that price...

All I can say is deal with it. A lot of people do, and you can too.

he does deal with it !

with the help of gh =)

as 20,000 others do every day !

he does deal with it !

with the help of gh =)

as 20,000 others do every day !

Gotta <3 you for ripping off composers

Gotta <3 you for being the center of moral standards. No one is more moral than Trance. We should all bow to him for being the epitome of moral highness. Because, you see, Trance wrote the book on what is right and wrong. He can't seem to get it into his head that we DO help the composers. We buy their games. Without the GAMES, the composers would be bankrupt. They get the money from the GAMES. The music does not help them as much as the GAMES.

Gotta <3 you for being the center of moral standards. No one is more moral than Trance. We should all bow to him for being the epitome of moral highness. Because, you see, Trance wrote the book on what is right and wrong. He can't seem to get it into his head that we DO help the composers. We buy their games. Without the GAMES, the composers would be bankrupt. They get the money from the GAMES. The music does not help them as much as the GAMES.

1) I am not the center of moral standards
2) I'm sure many people are more moral than me, particularly record companies
3) I'm honored that you bow down to a commoner like me
4) I did not write a book about moral standards
5) You don't help composers by downloading
6) Composers get their money from the PRODUCTION, not the sales of games
7) Composers CAN score other things besides video games. Many VGM composers are also anime and movie composers

Hmm...there's a word in the dictionary. Sarcasm.

And you obviously fail to realize that by buying the games, we help them out. And they get paid for the anime and movies too. And they get money by associating with the game. These overpriced, old (a good deal of the time) soundtracks being downloaded don't really hurt them that much.

Hmm...there's a word in the dictionary. Sarcasm.

And you obviously fail to realize that by buying the games, we help them out. And they get paid for the anime and movies too. And they get money by associating with the game. These overpriced, old (a good deal of the time) soundtracks being downloaded don't really hurt them that much.

You OBVIOUSLY failed to realize that I was playing with your sarcasm. Yep, it happens.

I fail to realize what you mean by 'helping them out by buying the games'? The composers get their main source of money from the production and development stages, and the rest from album sales and such. They don't get anything from game sales. What do you mean by they get money by associating with the game? The OSTs may be overpriced for overseas buyers, but they aren't too expensive in the Japanese yen (which, may I remind you, is where they get the profit). And how do you know that they aren't hurting them much? Basically, you're argument is that they only do it for the money. Fine, believe what you want, but it's the same as me saying I only do my job for the money. Wait, doesn't everybody do their job for the money?

Oh really? So you OBVIOUSLY were sitting right here as I was typing? I figured that, of all people, you might be the one to actuallt not understand the sarcasm. Just the way you did that, with four numbered points, was so idiotic I was not sure.


The OSTs may be overpriced for overseas buyers

Finally, a word of sense came out of your mouth. And by us (Americans) not buying the music?

1.) Not the easiest thing to find. If you do find it, half the time, it might not be reliable.

2.) The price. Very prohibitive.

3.) If we get the game, we already have the music. Is that not correct?

And what I mean by "they get money by associating with the game"? They make the music. They get money. Though it might be an insignifigant bit less by the comparitively small people who download soundtracks at various sites, they still get paid. You're just being a bit vehement about something that isn't too problematical in the long run.

1.) Not the easiest thing to find. If you do find it, half the time, it might not be reliable.

Not true


2.) The price. Very prohibitive.

Get a job, if you can pay for the internet time you are using to download the songs you can obviously buy at least one OST just to be nice to the artist.


3.) If we get the game, we already have the music. Is that not correct?

No, you have the game you have the game, period.

Oh really? So you OBVIOUSLY were sitting right here as I was typing? I figured that, of all people, you might be the one to actuallt not understand the sarcasm. Just the way you did that, with four numbered points, was so idiotic I was not sure.

Umm, what the hell are you on about? Yes, there is such a thing called internet sarcasm. Personally, I don't care.



Finally, a word of sense came out of your mouth.

Read my posts, and then comment before making a rabid generalization about a person.


1.) Not the easiest thing to find. If you do find it, half the time, it might not be reliable.

2.) The price. Very prohibitive.

3.) If we get the game, we already have the music. Is that not correct?

1.) You can find plenty of Original Soundtrack / Arranged albums in many places on the internet. I can name several, all reliable. So your remark is totally untrue.

2.) As nkwp said, if you can pay for the internet and such, you can afford to pay for a Soundtrack. That said, you're making a generalization and assumption that ALL OSTs are in fact expensive. So, again, untrue.

3.) You own the game, you own the game. We defined this, what, years ago now?


And what I mean by "they get money by associating with the game"? They make the music. They get money. Though it might be an insignifigant bit less by the comparitively small people who download soundtracks at various sites, they still get paid. You're just being a bit vehement about something that isn't too problematical in the long run.

Let's put it this way: Composers make music to accompany a game. They get paid like any other normal human being. An album is released, and 20,000 people (a VERY small amount [sarcasm]) come to GH daily and some rip off this certain composer by downloading (note: stealing) this album. These people make the composer loose money for a job which is significantly hard to do in the first place. It's not about what amount they get paid in the first place, it's about respect and giving back to the composer something which you enjoyed in the first place. There's nothing wrong with being a bit intense about something as simple as this. Also, MP3s, copyright, etc., have been a large problem for some time now. Saying it isn't too problematic is, well, wrong.

My fucking god dude, enough already. You think what SE did was right and you're against pirating stuff, we fucking get it. There's no need for you to go on and on about this shit forever, it's not like you're going to change peoples opinions anyway. Just move on (like you intended to, what, 2 months ago?) and live with the fact that everyone has an opinion of their own.

excuse me but can someone help me

My fucking god dude, enough already. You think what SE did was right and you're against pirating stuff, we fucking get it. There's no need for you to go on and on about this shit forever, it's not like you're going to change peoples opinions anyway. Just move on (like you intended to, what, 2 months ago?) and live with the fact that everyone has an opinion of their own.

I don't think you need a brain to figure out that the reason why this thread is being revived, but I'll happily tell you. It's because of people like you who question me and criticize my view, not to mention revive the thread, so I'm happily and lawfully replying back. Did you feel the need to comment when the argument is over or did you just want more post counts? I don't care if I change people's opinions or not, I just want to raise awareness and make them realize that what they are doing is wrong. And, yes, I have moved on, but people who keep insulting me with lame replies make me want to come back too. And it's not my problem people won't accept my opinion, it's people like Sarah who keep coming back for more, so don't tell me that everybody has an opinion when I realize that better than anybody else here.

What SE did was totally wrong.

Nowadays, how often are Video Game OSTs released here in the US?

What SE did was totally wrong.

Nowadays, how often are Video Game OSTs released here in the US?

Lawfully, they did the right thing.

Actually, you'd be surprised that quite a few VGM OSTs are released over in the States and even Canada. My friend over there has found and bought plenty (mind you, they are mostly American-composed VGM scores) :)

All I can say to all this:

Piracy is still piracy. It's still illegal, so it's just tough.

Sorry, but that's how I feel, even though I'm miffed as well.

O man. I just had to join this forum after reading all those full 9 pages of posts. Just a neccesity. I had this like, burning desire to comment. Anyway, Trance Kuja is a fucking idiot. I really hate people who try and act sophisticated when in reality they are just lab rats poked by large untensils in scientists experiments. Though thats what this discussion looked like to me. Some conceited little kid trying to pick fights with older people, but actually being a weak and ignorant bitch looked down upon by others.

Trance Kuja, you being a 14 year old, you, like I, should love videogames, appreciate their companys, and listen to music. ffshrine has given us downloadable music for people who love the game music and would like to listen to it whenever they felt like it.

Me, I like to log on at about, 11 am in the morning with a nice pink frosted donut and some starbucks coffee, and open up my music folder (in documents of course ;) and listen to Aerith's theme or, maybe Suteki da ne while I browse the internet. ALOT of people do that, and its not hurting a damn fucking thing. Shouldn't you be off somewhere with your friends, going to chuckie cheese and playing those fun games with the tickets? I think you should.

I agree with most of what Sarah said, and Medeii...


Sorry, but I'm dating a wonderful man. (Bring on the orientation flames.)

You make me want to be a man lmao. your bf is one hell of a lucky dude.


Watashima, something you said offended me :(

Age has little to do with someones maturity. I was particularly offended by this because most of my whole life I was raised by adults, and had little to no contact with children my own age. I was homeschooled for about four years, went to a private school till 6th,than a public school till HS, where I am now. I think, the lack of contact of children who were not as disciplined as I was all my life, had mature me to a certain degree and gave me a different point of view on life that others don't share with me.

What I'm trying to say is, your experiences in life make people mature, no matter what age they are. Some people grow up quicker than others, and some people NEVER grow up *looks at Trance Kuja* -.-

And btw, for sending an email to SE and attempting to take FFshrine down, we should all just gang up on the stuck up rich little white boy and beat his ass!!!

O man. I just had to join this forum after reading all those full 9 pages of posts. Just a neccesity. I had this like, burning desire to comment. Anyway, Trance Kuja is a fucking idiot. I really hate people who try and act sophisticated when in reality they are just lab rats poked by large untensils in scientists experiments. Though thats what this discussion looked like to me. Some conceited little kid trying to pick fights with older people, but actually being a weak and ignorant bitch looked down upon by others.

*Sigh* I hate people who unnecessarily revive arguments which, I don't know, died four days ago. In case you didn't realize, I was looking in your direction. As I've said in many different cases (obviously, you can't read), it's my opinion, and I could call you a fucking cunt for opposing my opinion. But I'm not because I'm not like you who accuse people who share different views in life. Grow up. Most of that uncalled for rant is opinion.


Trance Kuja, you being a 14 year old, you, like I, should love videogames, appreciate their companys, and listen to music. ffshrine has given us downloadable music for people who love the game music and would like to listen to it whenever they felt like it.

a) I do like Video Games
b) I do appreciate the companies (why else would I be fighting my opinion in this thread?)
c) Of course, I listen to music.
Couldn't you tell from my posts that I do like all of the above?

And just incase you didn't know, downloading hurts companies, artists and everybody else involved. If people loved it so much, they would support the artists, not rip them off.


Me, I like to log on at about, 11 am in the morning with a nice pink frosted donut and some starbucks coffee, and open up my music folder (in documents of course ;) and listen to Aerith's theme or, maybe Suteki da ne while I browse the internet. ALOT of people do that, and its not hurting a damn fucking thing. Shouldn't you be off somewhere with your friends, going to chuckie cheese and playing those fun games with the tickets? I think you should.

OK, good for you, I'm not stopping you. I like to listen to music on my laptop too. Am I debating about it? No. People like to rip music onto their laptop. I do that too. Personal use, mate. However, it DOES hurt when you download from an unauthorized website like GH. The part in bold is nonsensical, plus, we don't get those cheap American eating parlors down here in Australia.



What I'm trying to say is, your experiences in life make people mature, no matter what age they are. Some people grow up quicker than others, and some people NEVER grow up *looks at Trance Kuja* -.-

Why, I never realized you knew me so well! I'll NEVER grow up? Please, that's just as reversible as me saying you'll never grow up.


And btw, for sending an email to SE and attempting to take FFshrine down, we should all just gang up on the stuck up rich little white boy and beat his ass!!!

Attempting? Didn't it succeed to some extent? At least I get praise from the artists for supporting them, which is something you won't and don't understand.

Words of Kuja:
And just incase you didn't know, downloading hurts companies, artists and everybody else involved. If people loved it so much, they would support the artists, not rip them off.

My view:
In some cases like my country, it's very hard to find game soundtracks so i have to find on the internet. Importing them would be ridiculous and my country has strict rules of importing foreign CDs (Malaysia's an islamic country) and because of that i really appreciate the Galbadia Hotel site.

If you wan't to talk about piracy, Malaysia is rated as number 1 country of piracy. Almost no one here buy original DVDs because of their ridiculous price. Why buy something that's RM120 when you can get in for RM12? Even CD here is overpriced RM49 when you can get it for RM5?? Sure they hurt companies and artists but living in a 3rd world country, we cannot afford to buy original. If you take piracy from us, we'll be left with nothing! Artists knows about that and they know can't control such thing but you know how they get profits back? Not from selling CDs but by performing concerts all over the world. I'm not the type who likes to type of person long so i'll end it here. It not just about one country so please think about it.
Please don't be offended. This is not pointed to any one person here... it's just a message, plain and simple.

If you wan't to talk about piracy, Malaysia is rated as number 1 country of piracy. Almost no one here buy original DVDs because of their ridiculous price. Why buy something that's RM120 when you can get in for RM12? Even CD here is overpriced RM49 when you can get it for RM5?? Sure they hurt companies and artists but living in a 3rd world country, we cannot afford to buy original. If you take piracy from us, we'll be left with nothing! Artists knows about that and they know can't control such thing but you know how they get profits back? Not from selling CDs but by performing concerts all over the world. I'm not the type who likes to type of person long so i'll end it here. It not just about one country so please think about it.
Please don't be offended. This is not pointed to any one person here... it's just a message, plain and simple.

Well, so start, I wouldn't classify Malaysia, in recent days, as a third world country. Sure, there are parts which are definitely of that nature, but a lot of the country is in a transition period. To the main point, I do understand and sympathizes for the people who can't access importing CDs (Brazil probably the most with their ridiculous import costs), and it's better to download than pay a pirate, however, when available at an open period, you should do everything you can to take control of the situation and support the artists. It's only right. As for the live concerts and stuff, this is a problem for VGM, because this simply does not happen on a regular basis, especially with your favorite artists. Also, most composers do not have this popularity to have concerts and stuff. Only big people like Uematsu, Mitsuda, etc., could ever come off as successful. I'm not offended, I'm just telling you the facts :)

FUCK OFF MALAYSIA KEISHEN... i cant believe ur badmouthing our country... DONT U HAVE ANY PRIDE? WTF ARE U GOING ON ABOUT DVDS ARE 120RM THATS A FUCKEN LIE AND U KNOW IT SO STOP EXAARGERATING SHIT...
oh yea there are 2RM to A$1...
I've BEEn ALl OVer Malaysia and What you are saying is complete bullshit
HOW DARE U SAY MALAYSiA is a 3rd Wolrd Country...U should Be burnt for just thinking that

Malaysia is the best place in the world *satay* drools... and people CAN AFFORD TO BUY REAL COPIES... its only money greedy shits like you that buy pirated stuff because ur fucked up mind only things about money and the best way to conserve it...
Malaysia may have pirated stuff (especially games) BUT ITS PEOPle's CHOICE TO BUY IT OR NOT THEY KNOW ITS ILLEGal AND THEY MAKE THE bad choice... SO WHY ARE U BADMOUTHING MALAYS... MOST OF THE PPL THAT BUY PIRATED SHIT ARE TOURISTS NOT THE PPL FROM MALAYSIA

For once TRance Kuja I agree wif u... Malaysia is should not and will not be classified as a 3rd world country... Sure they may be a few dirty streets and many beggars... but thats not what a 3rd world country is... Malays have access to clean water, educatoin, shelter and food SO FUCK OFF MALAYSIA... WHEN I GO BAK THERE I"M GONNA HUNT U DOWN AND STAB U WIF A KNIFE (maybe satay skewer) ^_^

I HATE MONEY GREEDY PPL WHO DONT EVEN HAVE PRIDE FOR THEIR COUNTRY
GO FUCK URSELF KEISHEN

YEaH kIEnShIn I meNe WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Wow, I make one little post go get myself a new computer loose the site, come back later and find out, the war is still going.

Right now I'm tired so I'm not going to write any essays, all I have to say is simple. Trance, your trying to raise awareness, and right now I'll agree raising awareness is good, but it's been raised, so now after 10 pages of debating and raising awareness I think it can come to an end. Now I also think you made a coment back somewhere that Sarah and you will never agree, so you debate back and forth. Again all well and good, however, there comes a time when in the course of human event... Oh wait wrong speach. :P (Really someone needed to inject some humor into this thread again, oy.) But as far as I've seen no, to very little, new evidance has been presented and we're all going around in circles, after awhile it ceses to become a debate and more into who can wear down people the most. All debates must come to an end, I think it's time this one did, lord knows all I wanted to do was aplaud people who made a good aregument and gave me a night of good reading! So why don't we talk about something else now. There's Gorge W. Bush, their's the Fusion powerplant their going to be building in France, as uposed to Japan.. adn their's the idocy of the US PATROIT Act, plus many other subjects so who knows maybe we can start something fresh.

GEORGE BUSH ACCENT IS FUNNIER THAN TWENTY DOGS DRESSED AS REINDEERS IN ANTARTICA JUMPING OFF INTO THE COLD SEA AND GETTING EAATEN BY PENGUINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MeRRY XMAS EVERYONE =)

GEORGE BUSH ACCENT IS FUNNIER THAN TWENTY DOGS DRESSED AS REINDEERS IN ANTARTICA JUMPING OFF INTO THE COLD SEA AND GETTING EAATEN BY PENGUINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MeRRY XMAS EVERYONE =)

FUCK OFF MALAYSIA KEISHEN... i cant believe ur badmouthing our country... DONT U HAVE ANY PRIDE? WTF ARE U GOING ON ABOUT DVDS ARE 120RM THATS A FUCKEN LIE AND U KNOW IT SO STOP EXAARGERATING SHIT...
oh yea there are 2RM to A$1...
I've BEEn ALl OVer Malaysia and What you are saying is complete bullshit
HOW DARE U SAY MALAYSiA is a 3rd Wolrd Country...U should Be burnt for just thinking that

Malaysia is the best place in the world *satay* drools... and people CAN AFFORD TO BUY REAL COPIES... its only money greedy shits like you that buy pirated stuff because ur fucked up mind only things about money and the best way to conserve it...
Malaysia may have pirated stuff (especially games) BUT ITS PEOPle's CHOICE TO BUY IT OR NOT THEY KNOW ITS ILLEGal AND THEY MAKE THE bad choice... SO WHY ARE U BADMOUTHING MALAYS... MOST OF THE PPL THAT BUY PIRATED SHIT ARE TOURISTS NOT THE PPL FROM MALAYSIA

For once TRance Kuja I agree wif u... Malaysia is should not and will not be classified as a 3rd world country... Sure they may be a few dirty streets and many beggars... but thats not what a 3rd world country is... Malays have access to clean water, educatoin, shelter and food SO FUCK OFF MALAYSIA... WHEN I GO BAK THERE I"M GONNA HUNT U DOWN AND STAB U WIF A KNIFE (maybe satay skewer) ^_^

I HATE MONEY GREEDY PPL WHO DONT EVEN HAVE PRIDE FOR THEIR COUNTRY
GO FUCK URSELF KEISHEN

I have been living here for 27 years. Eat, sleep and work here ok. Oh yah, your currency explanation is nonsense. Badmouthing Malays? Why don't you tell that to out ex and still best Prime Minister Mahathir? He said the same thing about his race. Kill him instead. The working hours and money we are getting.. we are still a 3rd world country no matter how nice it looks from the outside. If you wan't to get personal with me or any arguements.. please do it in the private message. If you wish to kill me so badly, it's not that hard because that's me in my avatar and i like to shop around K.L in Sg. Wang shopping mall but you know doing horrible things has its consequences. So go ahead. You are shameful and barbaric, Alvinz. (Please do this privately and not let this thread go off its topic if you wish to continue this arguement) :(

I have been living here for 27 years. Eat, sleep and work here ok. Oh yah, your currency explanation is nonsense. Badmouthing Malays? Why don't you tell that to out ex and still best Prime Minister Mahathir? He said the same thing about his race. Kill him instead. The working hours and money we are getting.. we are still a 3rd world country no matter how nice it looks from the outside. If you wan't to get personal with me or any arguements.. please do it in the private message. If you wish to kill me so badly, it's not that hard because that's me in my avatar and i like to shop around K.L in Sg. Wang shopping mall but you know doing horrible things has its consequences. So go ahead. You are shameful and barbaric, Alvinz. (Please do this privately and not let this thread go off its topic if you wish to continue this arguement) :(

On Alvinz defense, the currency thing was, at most, accurate. $1 AUD = 2.7 RM.

Hey, I dont know what this fuss is all about but 0.7 is a big difference!

Looks like another thread heading for shits!

Hey, I dont know what this fuss is all about but 0.7 is a big difference!

Looks like another thread heading for shits!

Not really

This thread was as good as shit from when it started.

Ain't big huh? Tell that to the world, Kuj.

Well, it turns shittier when everyone started to get into mindless insults. That i "f*** u, no f*** you" is starting to spread like a virus! It's on every thread and it is killing the forum. At least arguing about your actions on the first 9.3 pages made some sort of sense, kid.

Ain't big huh? Tell that to the world, Kuj.

Well, it turns shittier when everyone started to get into mindless insults. That i "f*** u, no f*** you" is starting to spread like a virus! It's on every thread and it is killing the forum. At least arguing about your actions on the first 9.3 pages made some sort of sense, kid.

OK. 0.7 isn't that big of difference.

Even then, that argument was rubbish.

istoo

To stock markets, 0.7 is BIG difference but whatever! Let us stop it here. If this goes on, other shriners might just pop in and morph this thing to something else for their own amusement.

EDIT: Oh wait, I read your last part. Best if we just left it.

P.S - Why can't this thread die?

OK.

By uploading a soundtrack without permission, you are breaking the law, and not even the protection of 'fair use' can save you because it doesn't fall under the category.

RIAA tagline.

EDIT: Oh wait, I read your last part. Best if we just left it.

P.S - Why can't this thread die?

Why can't this tread die. hmm. maybe its cause i hate you Mr Corporation man. You are the only poor cunt that supports Square-Enix here, I'm actually stuck for a metaphor for you, you poor little fuck. Do Me a big favor and write another letter to S-E about why the fuck you suck their little sphincters. why are you brown-nosing them are you looking for Uematsu's position, if so say, then i might respect you for it, BUT shoot yourself before I will consider it. oh Sarah any chance of the animes comin up on GH again

I haven't been in this thread, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know this thread should be locked.

Trance Kuja has already caused enough ruckus to prove his point so let's leave it at that. We get it. Just lock the thread and leave it at that, we don't need any more babble.

Why can't this tread die. hmm. maybe its cause i hate you Mr Corporation man. You are the only poor cunt that supports Square-Enix here, I'm actually stuck for a metaphor for you, you poor little fuck. Do Me a big favor and write another letter to S-E about why the fuck you suck their little sphincters. why are you brown-nosing them are you looking for Uematsu's position, if so say, then i might respect you for it, BUT shoot yourself before I will consider it. oh Sarah any chance of the animes comin up on GH again

All I need to say is: LOL

Trance, LOL is not a word but an action, i think but i'm probably wrong.

Keinshin, its been so long. I had completely forgotten about my harsh words to you about Malaysia. Maaf, i was being rash and not thinking straight. Now that i have aged 6 months, after reading it again the things i said sound stupid. Please forgive me. I feel so ashamed that i won't kill you with a satay skewer, but kill myself instead.

Anyway, just to bring back an old topic, Trance, 0.7 is HEAPS. It really is. But its been so long since i went back to Malaysia, that when i was there is was $A1 = 2.05. So thats why i generally think of one aussie dollar to 2 ringet.

And Black Paladin, you do not realised this but you sound like a arrogant dickhead. You do not realised how hard it is to be a singer/ songwriter/ composer/ music dude and live in a pirated world. So think about shit before you ramble off with nonsense. And Trance Kuja has not done enough to let everyone on this forum hear about piracy and Square Enix.

Trance, i want you to hack these forums, and change every single thread, and every single post and make them say, STOP DOWNLOADING PIRATED MUSIC. or DOWN WITH PIRACY!!!

Anyway sorry Keinshin. Please forgive me.

DELETED

I don't want to get into another painfully long argument.

Why can't this tread die. hmm. maybe its cause i hate you Mr Corporation man. You are the only poor cunt that supports Square-Enix here, I'm actually stuck for a metaphor for you, you poor little fuck. Do Me a big favor and write another letter to S-E about why the fuck you suck their little sphincters. why are you brown-nosing them are you looking for Uematsu's position, if so say, then i might respect you for it, BUT shoot yourself before I will consider it. oh Sarah any chance of the animes comin up on GH again

I agree with most of what BP (we could call him petrol station from now on) and are the anime shows or are they copy-righted to or have they been removed from youtube.