aeris and zack, spoilers [Archive] - Final Fantasy Shrine Forums

yin-chan

10-10-2005, 05:14 PM

First of all, Aerith and Zack did not 'get together' and made hawtt love in the afterlife after AC.

The reason why Zack showed up in the ending is because Cloud wanted closure from the both of them. He felt guilty for Aeris's death and Zack's death. Zack was his best friend, for heaven's sake. It's only natural Cloud wants closure from him as well.

I do not see Aeris and Zack walking out of a door together as proof of "OMG Zeris!1!!!1"
It merely shows that they are from a different world from Cloud - the seperation between physical and spiritual , alive and dead.
What, you think SE should've made Zack sprint across the church and jump out of the window instead of walking out the door normally? Sheesh.

Aeris and Zack were friends and lovers before FF7. However, in AC, the only time they communicated was when they healed Cloud. The focus is on Cloud. They were there for CLOUD. That was the only scene where they interacted, and they were talking like old friends. Even Zack says, "Isn't it nice to be yearned for?" Does this not show that even Zack knows that Cloud yearns for Aeris, or vice versa.

As for the Aeris liking Cloud because of Zack theory. That has been debunked years ago. I am too lazy to write a long passage of what has been repeated too many times over the years, so I shall just copy and paste like a good little internet l337.

Ahhh incredibly daunting long post.

On Aeris Being Interested in Cloud For The “Zack” In Him by Carlatta

Now another argument I commonly hear against the Cloud x Aeris supporters is that Aeris was only interested in Cloud for the “Zack” in him. Now it is very understandable to believe this once the game progresses a bit, but in the end it is found this is not the case for two reasons:

1. Aeris realizes that Cloud and Zack are two very different people

We know Aeris definitely sees that Cloud is not Zack and how the two really contrast greatly in character (refer to my last post concerning this issue, I believe on page 46?) but once this is discovered does that mean Aeris is no longer interested in Cloud? The answer is no, which leads into the second reason:

2. Aeris and Zack’s relationship was either not as strong or not as important to Aeris as most gamers take it to be

This is controversial among gamers but there is actual evidence to finally support this idea.

Let’s start with number two because it will be easier to show that their relationship was not that big and then lead into why she didn’t see Cloud for the “Zack” in him. To begin Zack is first mentioned while Aeris and Cloud are sitting on top of the cat slide in sector six talking to one another. Zack was not mentioned by name but by his relation to Aeris. Here is the conversation.

Aeris "What rank were you?"
Cloud "Rank?"
Aeris "You know, in SOLDIER."
Cloud "Oh, I was...First Class."
Aeris "Just the same as him."
Cloud "The same as who?"
Aeris "My first boyfriend."
Cloud "You were... serious?"
Aeris "No. But I liked him for a while."
Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?"
Aeris "It doesn't really matter."

Like I said before this is the first time Zack is brought into the game and this little conversation tells a lot about her present feelings at the time. When Aeris first asks what rank Cloud is, it shows how she has already noticed some similarity between the two considering the question came a bit out of nowhere and also when looking at her response to his answer.

Aeris "Just the same as him."

It shows how she is making a comparison between the two and remembering certain things about Zack through Cloud. Cloud then goes on to ask who she is speaking of.

Aeris "My first boyfriend."

This is the first time we find out that Aeris and Zack were a pair (couple) at some time before the game actually begins. We however are not given much information on it such as how long it lasted and since she seems to speak so openly about it, her personality and mood during this period kind of shows that the whole discussion is more or less everyday conversation. Aeris is a very emotional character, so if this relationship was so serious why wouldn’t she show more emotion instead of just sitting on the slide and talking like it was just one of many memories. Wait? Was it serious?

(Continued)

Aeris "No. But I liked him for a while."

Cloud asks openly if her and Zack’s relationship “really” meant something to her and she flat out says no. Kind of a personal question, but her answer doesn’t make it seem so. She even shakes her head quickly as if to emphasis this. Actions and words both speak loud in this case. Cloud then continues seeing she isn’t deeply hurt in discussing the topic.

Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?"

This part I find most interesting. If Aeris was so obsessed with Zack, wouldn’t she go crazy at hearing this? Cloud might have known him, he says. Now at this point in the game we as the gamer don’t know what is to come, so all we really know, along with Aeris, is that Cloud could very well know this mysterious SOLDIER. So therefore if Cloud may know him than he also might be able to tell what happened to him, what they had done together in SOLDIER (if they happened to be old buddies), and above all else to Aeris WHERE ZACK MIGHT BE!!! Yes we later find out Zack died, but Aeris does not know this and I don’t think it is even found out on disk one at that. So shouldn’t Aeris be jumping for joy with this new hope of finding her love again? But, what’s this? What does she say?

Aeris "It doesn't really matter."

Funny, how Aeris could have told Cloud Zack’s name and perhaps with his help found Zack so she could be with him. Remember again that Aeris doesn’t know that Zack is dead and that Cloud (at this point in the game, work with me&#33 doesn’t know him. Doesn’t she even want to try? Doesn’t seem like it, does it? So does this mean that Zack didn’t mean as much to Aeris in a romantic way as we thought he did?

Not enough for some people to believe? Alright, let’s continue on in the game. The next scene in which Aeris openly talks about Zack with Cloud is at Gongaga, should you choose to have her in your party. Zack’s parents, if you go in to their house, talk about Zack (kind of unimportant) than later ask Aeris if she was this girlfriend Zack talked about in one of his letters. She leaves without saying anything and Cloud has the option to go and speak with her. Here is a part of there conversation.

(They speak about Zack and how he was Aeris’s boyfriend and all)
Cloud "Strange, there aren't that many who make First Class, but I've never heard of him."
Aeris "That's all right. It's all in the past now. I was just worried because I heard he's been missing."

That’s all in the past now. Doesn’t this confirm what I’ve said before? Right there in that statement Aeris states she has moved on from whatever her and Zack had had. The dialogue continues.

Cloud "Missing?"
Aeris "I think it was 5 years ago. He went out on a job, and never came back. He loved women, a real lady's man. He probably found someone else...”
Aeris "Hey? What's wrong?"

Now after saying this if Aeris was indeed very depressed over the whole Zack thing wouldn’t she have been quiet afterward or shown some sort of emotion? But instead she asks Cloud what’s wrong, indicating how nothing should be upsetting after having this conversation. Kind of funny how she bounces back so quickly after being very depressed over Zack. Anyway, the conversation continues.

Choice Poor guy
(jealous... envious...) [========={If you pick this one all Aeris does is tease Cloud for being jealous of Zack. Doesn’t this show how she distinguishes between the two and doesn’t see them as being the same? Just a thought, but that is not the focus so we will choose the option in Cloud x Tifa favor just for kicks}

(Continued)

Aeris "I don't really mind that I haven't heard from him. But I feel for his parents."

But if she was in love with him, wouldn’t she mind? This confirms what I have said before. Good ol` Aeris always feeling for others. She feels bad that his parents have been suffering over their son being missing, she doesn’t feel bad that she is not able to be with him because he is missing. Yes Aeris is worried about his well being, but this shows more of a friendship type relationship (if even that) that she most likely now holds toward Zack.

The big question concerning all that’s been said is probably why doesn’t Aeris find or think that it matters, as she has said a couple of times now. The answer is simple. She doesn’t find it important to dwell in the past. I remember once reading an interview with Hironobou Sakaguchi in which he said Aeris is basically the symbolism of life and living for the future. This is pretty apparent, what does Aeris always talk about? The future. She says one day she will get out of Midgar, listen to the planet and go find her promised land. Aeris tells about how much she would like to take a ride on the highwind sometime. In the temple of the ancients, she says that later the group will look back at all these hard times and laugh. Lastly, she says she would come back when it was all over. In the game, whose main theme is LIFE, the personification of it is displayed through Aeris. It’s the way the developers personally start to involve the player with the theme. Many complain about Aeris’s personality being too happy and lively but her personality was designed this way because of the life and hope for the future she displays. Zack represents the past and death. Aeris character which always looks toward the future would be breaking her symbolism by dwelling in the past and clinging to Zack.

Now I can FINALLY move onto reason number 1, but don’t worry, it won’t be quite that long. Okay so Aeris realizes Cloud and Zack are not the same person. In the beginning it is logical to believe that Aeris was initially attracted to Cloud because his gestures and SOLDIER background reminded her of Zack. This however does not mean she was obsessed with Zack, that happens to be far from the truth (as I have already explained). It was something that caught her attention, most likely reminded her of Zack, which led to wonder and curiosity. It resulted in her wanting to know more about Cloud. I remember one Cloud x Tifa supporter had said that Aeris never shows interest in getting to know Cloud. Sure she does! Think back to Cloud’s explanation of the Nibelheim incident that happened five years ago and when he goes into his old home where his mother lives.

(Continued)

Cloud "This is... my house. It has nothing to do with that incident five years ago."
Barret "Yo wait, I wanna hear."
Aeris "Me too! It's been a long time, right?"

True, Barret shows interest in Cloud’s personal past and the rest of the group perhaps does as well. Aeris, in this scene, shows a great interest in Cloud’s (not Zack’s) past. She gets excited (“Me too!”) and kind of pushes him on to discuss it (“It’s been a long time, right?”). Another example can be taken from what Marlene tells Cloud in Aeris’s house after Aeris is kidnapped.

Marlene "Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!"

Aeris wants to know what kind of character he (Cloud not Zack) has. It’s apparent she has an interest in Cloud at this point and wants to know him more. Why else would she ask Marlene about him? If she thought he was Zack or whatever that concept is, wouldn’t she already know Zack good enough therefore there being no need to ask what kind of person he is? So how do we know for sure that Aeris sees Cloud and not Zack? The answer is clearly stated in this last scene I post which occurs in the gondola on Cloud and Aeris’s date.

Aeris ".........first off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture...I think I must have seen him again, in you..."
Aeris "But you're different."
Aeris "Things are different..."
Aeris "Cloud...I'm searching for you..."
Cloud "............?"
Aeris "I want to meet you."
Cloud "But I'm right here."
Aeris (I know, I know... what I mean is...) "I want to meet..... you."

Just like she said, she wanted to meet him....Cloud.

END ESSAY

And for the other one...

Cloud Did Not Become Zack by Carlatta

I never did understand the argument about Cloud in disk one not being the "real" Cloud and that during this time period he was more or less Zack.

Many Cloud x Tifa supporters use the fact that Cloud had his past mixed up all the while he knew Aeris and because of this Cloud was not allowed to be true to himself. The funny thing about this argument however is that memories and character are two very different aspects of a person. Character makes a person who they are and Cloud confused his memories with Zack, not his character. Proof? Zack was more of an outgoing and caring character when you see him in the few scenes of Nibelheim and him and Cloud's escape to Midgar. Zack, for example, directly gave friendship to Cloud in which Zack talked to him, kind of joked with him, and helped him when Cloud was hurt (Escape from Midgar Sequence). Cloud's character is one completely different from that shown by Zack.

Cloud, when the player first meets him in the beginning of the game, is perceived as a cold, antisocial, and uncaring person who only wants money and worries about the well-being of no one. Zack also is described by Aeris in Gongaga as being and I quote her in saying, "he loved women, a real ladies man." Cloud seems to be particularly uninterested in this specific area which can be shown from his less than enthusiastic responses to his mother's discussion concerning him getting a girlfriend in his flashback of the visit he had with her in Nibelheim. As shown in the truck on the way to Nibeheim in the real flashback sequence, Zack was talkative and caring asking how everyone was doing and if Cloud was alright with his motion sickness. Cloud in the beginning of the game basically only says what needs to be and holds a overall, "I don't care" and "It's not my problem" attitude.

If ANYTHING what only can be seen is that Cloud and Zack's personalities are almost completely contrasting. Cloud and Zack's personalities are in no way anything alike when compared with what information is given to us in the game. So then it can be concluded that the only thing that Cloud has inherited from Zack was some of his memories and gestures as well. So then the real reason most see Cloud before he "finds himself" in the lifestream as the "fake" Cloud is because his memories are mixed up and confused. This in itself brings up an interesting topic, that being does the past really make us who we are? This can be answered more by opinions but the answer to this question doesn't quite address the real issue. This issue being that just because Cloud did not know the truth about a certain part of his past does that mean he was truly incapable of loving another. Remember Cloud only had a certain part of his past mixed up, that being the Nibelheim experience five years ago and his involvement in SOLDIER. He remembered he was born in Nibelheim and not Gongaga like Zack was and Cloud also remembered bits and pieces of some conversations he had with his mother in Nibelheim.

Because of this I fail to see how Cloud's past in SOLDIER and the Nibelheim incident five years ago can affect his relationship that he had with Aeris. This was the past which had nothing to do with Aeris, she was the present. Tifa however was a part of this mixed up past. If that in itself holds a deeper meaning who's to say, that's more of the gamer's opinion.

;-)